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| Iraq |
| Iraqi commander replaced after missiles go astray / hit marketplace |
| 2003-03-29 |
| I'm leaving the headers for the two sections of this Guardian article — notice how the missiles being discussed are one and the same, though the Guardian writer won't admit it. Iraqi commander replaced after missiles go astray The commander of Iraqi air defence forces in Baghdad has been Missile in Baghdad marketplace kills 62 Doctors at Baghdad's al-Noor hospital have said that 62 people were killed in an explosion in a busy marketplace in the city last night. Iraqi officials claimed the carnage was caused by a stray coalition cruise missile, but there was no immediate comment at US central command in Qatar. Late last night, doctors at al-Noor hospital said they had seen 52 corpses, by this morning the reported death toll had risen to 58 and the latest reports indicate that deaths have risen to 62, with many more injured. H-e-l-l-o Guardian! Same missiles! |
| Posted by:Steve White |
| #7 TGA. He probably got the chop because he didn't kill enough of them. They probably wanted triple figure fatalities for broadcast on Al-Jiz. Welcome back, by the way. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2003-03-30 00:30:17 |
| #6 Gee, anonymous, you sure do think we're bad guys, don't you? Ever seen the crater made by an explosion before? I've probably done more Bomb Damage Assessment than the entire Iraqi military. Tomahawks make deep craters - 6-10 feet deep, and some 25-30 feet in diameter. That's a 500-lb warhead. JDAMS range from 460 lbs of explosives to over 3000 pounds. They also PENETRATE - 10, 20, sometimes even 30 meters deep. They DON'T explode on the surface. Regular 500-lb gravity-bombs usually are equipped with a fuse extender, so they explode aboveground. NO crater, just a pattern of blast about 400 feet in diameter. Makes HUGE dents in walls - as big as 6 feet across. On the other hand, an SA-2 missile has a 1000-lb warhead, and spews out 46,000 ball-bearing size pieces of steel, each about an inch across. BIIIIGG blast area, lots of collateral damage (that's why it knocks airplanes out of the sky, not that it gets close enough to them to hit them). Really, really old technology, and not too reliable any more. SA-3, a slightly newer missile, only has an 85-lb warhead. MUCH smaller, but it's supposed to get closer, and do as much damage. The other missile system Hussein has is the SA-6, which is a mobile missile, but again, a small warhead. The blasts that have occurred so far are most likely from the old SA-3 missiles, or from the SA-6. The SA-3 has a nasty habit of tumbling its gyros (yeah, it uses THEM), and ending up God knows where. I've watched several of the photos taken of Baghdad during a bombing raid. I haven't seen any SA-2s being shot off (looks kinda like a flying telephone pole, and almost as big). I have seen numerous SA-3's going up (peculiar yellow flame unique to them, almost vertical launch), and a few SA-6s (greenish-yellow flame, go out then up). The other possibility is 85mm anti-aircraft shells with proximity fuses. They're supposed to be able to reach up to 56,000 feet, and be quite deadly. Only, if they sit too long, the powder can begin to decompose, and maybe they don't go up very high. If they don't reach 5000 feet, the proximity fuse isn't activated, neither is the destruct circuit. Hussein isn't using radar - use it, you lose it to a HARM or something else equally as nasty. Those are being saved until the last minute, if he has any left. He is throwing up a lot of anti-aircraft fire, usually after the bogie is long gone, and there's really nothing to shoot at. What goes up, comes back down. Shoot straight up, fall straight back down. Unguided missiles can do just about anything, including looping over and coming back down just where they were launched. It's a real 'treat' to be one of Sadsack's air defense boys... |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2003-03-29 23:59:46 |
| #5 Of course the UK/USA is going to suggest they think it was a stray Iraqi missle. You think they are going to own up? I would think the allied intelligence might not really know...., seems they don't even know if Sadamm is alive or injured from the first bombs they dropped. |
| Posted by: anonymous 2003-03-29 22:22:43 |
| #4 [I'm sure one of our armaments experts will correct me if I'm wrong here...] TGA, if I understand correctly AA missles are designed to explode at a predetermined altitude (or possibly when they begin to descend) even if they don't encounter a target. This avoids the possibility of live rounds falling back to earth, and exploding there. But for this feature to work, the rounds must reach some minimum height. There's an AFP report that the Iraquis haven't been using much radar target detection (turning on radar tends to invite unfriendly HARMs), instead using manually directed "barrage fire", in hopes of hitting something. My guess is some of the rounds were aimed at such a low angle that they never achieved the minimum height necessary to activate the safety feature. Result: Live rounds fall on the city. (Never confuse malevolence with stupidity.) |
| Posted by: Old Grouch 2003-03-29 22:19:36 |
| #3 I don't understand: Didn't these Iraqi missiles go just where they were supposed to go: right into the markets? Sucks when you just follow orders. |
| Posted by: True German Ally 2003-03-29 20:21:45 |
| #2 Yah the crater sounded awfully small. Just how many civilian casualties in London, Berlin etc were caused by crap that went up that came back down |
| Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire 2003-03-29 19:24:50 |
| #1 oh, you mean those "missiles"? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2003-03-29 18:36:13 |