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Pak Talibs kill 10 foreign tourists in Diamer
Today's Headlines
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-Lurid Crime Tales-
Today's Idiot
FROLOVO, Russia, June 22 (UPI) -- A Russian was arrested for making off with a bridge this week after police said they followed drag marks to his home.
Stealing a bridge, eh? "Tell me/Where in the world is/Carmen Sandiego?"
The 23-year-old beauzeau in the northern Vologda region apparently hooked the small steel bridge to his tractor and hauled it away to sell as scrap metal.
Gives new meaning to the phrase "pons asinorum".
Police told Russia's RIA Novosti news agency they followed the trail the bridge [sic] left on the ground to the suspect's house in the village of Frolovo. The man had allegedly used a cutting torch to disassemble the bridge, but had not yet sold them.
"So, I just need to find buyers for this--"
"Police! Freeze!"

RIA Novosti said the alleged bridge thief was added to the roster of daring Russian unauthorized removals of items made from metallic elements, which includes several locomotives and a special bicycle ridden by a circus bear.
Robbing a bear? Can you say "Darwin Award"?
Posted by: Korora || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [412 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ....which includes several locomotives and a special bicycle ridden by a circus bear.

...and a Super Bowl ring.
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/24/2013 2:08 Comments || Top||

#2  Ambitious bridge thief but not too bright. However, we don't know how many bridges he successfully stole. It was the bread crumbs that got him.
Posted by: JohnQC || 06/24/2013 8:33 Comments || Top||

#3  Bastard!
Posted by: Frank G || 06/24/2013 9:36 Comments || Top||

#4  Ñåãîäíÿøíèé Èäèîò - Today's Idiot

Seems that "Stealing Bridges" is a national pass time in Russia, here is a story about another missing bridge.

Russian villager steals, recycles bridge

Maybe these two guys are related or Darwin was right about evolution.
Posted by: Gleamp Shaimp6175 || 06/24/2013 12:14 Comments || Top||

#5  Pennsylvania too.
Posted by: Dopey Sinatra9196 || 06/24/2013 13:06 Comments || Top||

#6  Foolish thief! Your supposed to drag a bunch of tree and brush branches after the bridge to hide the trail!
Posted by: CrazyFool || 06/24/2013 13:36 Comments || Top||

#7  Yeah, but then the posse would could him off at the... WTF..... he's got the damn pass too!
Posted by: Shipman || 06/24/2013 15:34 Comments || Top||

#8  And here we only thought the I-5 bridge collapsed....
Posted by: USN,ret || 06/24/2013 20:10 Comments || Top||

Godfather Style Slaying Lifts Marseille Murder Toll
[An Nahar] A 27-year-old man has been shot dead in Marseille in a slaying reminiscent of a scene from "The Godfather" that was the 10th murder of its kind in and around the city this year and the 34th since the start of 2012.

Djibril "Jean-Pierre" Abbas, who had a record of violent armed robbery and drugs offenses, was shot around 30 times after being ambushed by three men as he left a girlfriend's home in the Bon Secours district of the southern port on Saturday evening, police said.

The BMW he was driving was riddled with more than 40 bullet holes and police said the murder scene was strewn with shells of the kind used with Kalashnikov automatic rifles.

"This was a real ambush," a police source said of an attack that, in its brutality, recalled the killing of fictional mafia don Sonny Corleone in "The Godfather".

As in the post-war New York of Francis Coppola's 1972 masterpiece, the real-life contemporary violence in Marseille has its roots in feuds between rival gangs involved in the southern port's drugs trade, police say.

Gang-related murders this year have included one last month in which a 17-year-old dealer was shot 20 times with an automatic pistol and a double killing in March that took place in broad daylight and was witnessed by children on a rundown social housing estate.

The latter incident sparked a protest movement among local residents who have called on the government to put in place a "Marshall plan" for the city's poorest neighborhoods.
Posted by: Fred || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [294 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hmmm, Kalishnikofs instead of Thompsons, it's The med after all, use what's handy.

And you don't have to rob the feds.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 06/24/2013 7:56 Comments || Top||

#2  and police said the murder scene was strewn with shells of the kind used with Kalashnikov automatic rifles

7.62x39 undoubtably.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 06/24/2013 8:01 Comments || Top||

#3  and police said the murder scene was strewn with shells of the kind used with Kalashnikov automatic rifles

7.62x39 undoubtably.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 06/24/2013 8:01 Comments || Top||

#4  Not even close to Chicago.
Posted by: JohnQC || 06/24/2013 10:17 Comments || Top||

#5  >Djibril "Jean-Pierre" Abbas, who had a record of violent armed robbery and drugs offenses,

Jail. Safer for them. Safer for us.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles || 06/24/2013 12:26 Comments || Top||

#6  I notice the Jean-Pierre is in quotes. The rest of it doesn't look all that French.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 06/24/2013 15:21 Comments || Top||

#7  "Chicago popcorn" = dum-dum bullets
Posted by: Muggsey Mussolini || 06/24/2013 16:55 Comments || Top||

Dutch Police Detain Joyriding Brothers, 5 and 7, after Crash
[An Nahar] Dutch police on Saturday briefly detained two brothers aged five and seven who crashed a car after a mile-long joyride.

"A police patrol this morning saw a car with the doors open and two young boys stood next to it," in Bloemendael, west of Amsterdam, police spokeswoman Lenny Beijerbergen told Agence France Presse.

"The seven-year-old boy told police that he had driven the car around one-and-a-half kilometers (one mile), hit a metal post on the pavement and come to a standstill," Beijerbergen said.

A policeman tweeted a photo of the crash scene, saying that the car belonged to the boys' grandmother.

The photo, which was quickly removed from Twitter, showed the boys, the car and the uprooted post in a residential street strewn with debris from the car.

"At least I had my seat belt on! And my brother was in the child's seat," the seven-year-old driver said
"At least I had my seat belt on! And my brother was in the child's seat," the seven-year-old driver said when police turned up, national news agency ANP reported.

"The boys were taken to the police station, given a talking to and made aware of what they've done," Beijerbergen said.

"Then they were taken home. Thankfully they were both unhurt."

She said there was considerable damage to the car and the pavement.

"This is really quite remarkable, I've never seen anything like it, seven is very young," Beijerbergen said.
Posted by: Fred || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [385 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And 87 is very old.
Posted by: Perfesser || 06/24/2013 7:32 Comments || Top||

#2  But were they driving under the influence?
Posted by: JohnQC || 06/24/2013 10:15 Comments || Top||

#3  ..you mean like sugar? It's considered a controlled substance in NYC.
Posted by: Procopius2k || 06/24/2013 10:29 Comments || Top||

#4  Sign saying "must be this high to joyride" near gran's garage?
Posted by: Bright Pebbles || 06/24/2013 12:24 Comments || Top||

#5  That's the problem with these little cars the Euros like so much, a 7 yr. old can reach the pedals.

Do you think I could have reached the pedals of my Dad's '55 BelAir when I was 7????
Posted by: AlanC || 06/24/2013 14:42 Comments || Top||

#6  That's what little brothers are for AlanC
Posted by: Shipman || 06/24/2013 15:35 Comments || Top||

#7  Sorry Ship, but I WAS the little brother ;^)
Posted by: AlanC || 06/24/2013 19:20 Comments || Top||

#8  hit a metal post on the pavement and come to a standstill,"

Odd place to put a post?
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 06/24/2013 21:29 Comments || Top||

Africa Horn
15 killed in grenade attack in Kenya
[Pak Daily Times] At least 15 people were killed in a grenade attack on Sunday in a remote village in northern Kenya where low-key clan festivities have displaced hundreds of people in the past week, the Kenya Red Thingy and local officials said.

Pastoralist communities in northern Kenya have long wrangled over the control of highly valuable grazing land.

But the fighting, in which more than 20 villagers have been killed in the past two days in Mandera county, near the east African nation's frontier with Æthiopia and Somalia, has marked an escalation in tension.

Residents say the political class in the area are using clan militia to jostle for top positions in the local administration and to settle old scores.
Posted by: Fred || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [278 views] Top|| File under:

12 Sudanese Hajj applicants get smote. Or is it 'smitten?'
[ENGLISH.ALARABIYA.NET] Twelve Sudanese were killed on Sunday when a wall collapsed as they waited to submit their applications for the annual Hajj pilgrimage, official TV said.
Smote them dead on the spot, did He? Wonder what they did to get that?
The accident happened in Gedaref town southeast of the capital Khartoum, Sudan TV reported.
"We're here to go on the haj!"
"Not me! I ain't goin'!"

A witness, Ahmed Hashim, told AFP that the victims were crushed by the exterior brick wall, a type of fence, which suddenly collapsed outside a government office.

"A group of people had come to submit their applications for the Hajj," said Hashim, a shopkeeper near the accident site.

It was not immediately clear why the wall collapsed.
We know why.
The Hajj pilgrimage is one of the five pillars of Islam and must be performed at least once in a lifetime by those who are able to make the journey to Mecca, in Soddy Arabia.
...a kingdom taking up the bulk of the Arabian peninsula. Its primary economic activity involves exporting oil and soaking Islamic rubes on the annual hajj pilgrimage. The country supports a large number of princes in whatcha might call princely splendor. When the oil runs out the rest of the world is going to kick sand in the Soddy national face...
Guess they missed out on that pillar, huh?
Posted by: Fred || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [397 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Those whom Allah smites, are truly smitten, yea, even unto smithereens.
Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418 || 06/24/2013 12:10 Comments || Top||

#2  "smited"
Posted by: Muggsey Mussolini || 06/24/2013 16:55 Comments || Top||

#3  Smote them dead on the spot, did He? Wonder what they did to get that?

They're Muslims,and kill anyone NOT a Muslim, that's enough.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 06/24/2013 21:34 Comments || Top||

Africa Subsaharan
Nelson Mandela in Critical Condition
Nelson Mandela, the former president of South Africa, took a turn for the worse and was in critical condition today in his battle with a lung infection, according to a statement from the South African president's office.

"The doctors are doing everything possible to get his condition to improve and are ensuring that Madiba is well-looked after and is comfortable. He is in good hands," South African Jacob Zuma said, using Mandela's tribal nickname.

Mandela had been listed in "serious but stable condition" for since he entered the hospital June 8. Mandela was rushed to the hospital in the early morning hours of June 8, after his health deteriorated rapidly from a recurring lung infection. The 94-year-old Nobel Peace prize winner's medical team informed the president's office that Mandela's condition become critical over the past 24 hours, according to the statement.

Zuma reiterated today that Mandela's health was not compromised when the ambulance that was bringing him to the hospital broke down.

"There were seven doctors in the convoy who were in full control of the situation throughout the period. He had expert medical care," Zuma said. "The fully equipped military ICU ambulance had a full complement of specialist medical staff including intensive care specialists and ICU nurses. The doctors also dismissed the media reports that Madiba suffered cardiac arrest. There is no truth at all in that report."

Mandela was forced to wait for a second ambulance after the first one broke down, the South African government admitted Saturday.

"When the ambulance experienced engine problems it was decided that it would be best to transfer to another military ambulance which itself was accompanied for the rest of the journey by a civilian ambulance," the president's office said Saturday.
Posted by: Steve White || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [298 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Zuma reiterated today that Mandela's health was not compromised when the ambulance that was bringing him to the hospital broke down.

Petrol syphoned out I'd guess. Keeping the oud bugger alive until the Champ, FLOTUS, and the kids arrive no doubt.
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/24/2013 2:03 Comments || Top||

#2  Suspect that Nelson is just staying alive for the privilege to meet a Nobel Prize Winner and his wife with the well-toned arms
Posted by: Frank G || 06/24/2013 7:54 Comments || Top||

#3  He's sick and might die, good riddance.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 06/24/2013 7:59 Comments || Top||

#4  Arms not to die right now for.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/24/2013 9:46 Comments || Top||

#5  Could the media be setting up Obama and Mandela up for a Lazerus moment?
Posted by: airandee || 06/24/2013 9:53 Comments || Top||

#6  I think of him as a great man, who possibly has spared South Africa from a blood bath.
Posted by: bernardz || 06/24/2013 10:13 Comments || Top||

#7  Besoeker, no need to send Obama, FLOTUs and kids. With FTOTUS (First Teleprompter of the United States) is more than enough.
Posted by: JFM || 06/24/2013 10:50 Comments || Top||

#8  Nelson Mandela's family vow to continue his treatment, saying God will decide when he dies

South African president Jacob Zuma said Mr Mandela is being made "comfortable" by doctors, after paid a visit to the former president in hospital.

President Zuma called on South Africans to pray for Mr Mandela, and told journalists the former president was asleep when he saw him.

Posted by: Gleamp Shaimp6175 || 06/24/2013 12:04 Comments || Top||

#9  Something from author and historian Dr. Peter Hammond to keep in mind. Some perspective on the great Madiba.

From the same blog:

The fact is that even Amnesty International refused to take on Nelson Mandela’s case because they asserted that he was no political prisoner but had committed numerous violent crimes and had had a fair trial and a reasonable sentence.
Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. He had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilizing terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists.
South African President P.W. Botha had, on a number of occasions, offered Nelson Mandela freedom from prison, if he would only renounce terrorist violence. This Mandela refused to do.
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/24/2013 13:26 Comments || Top||

#10  I think of him as a great man, who possibly has spared South Africa from a blood bath

Which, if the rumors pan out, will happen after he dies.
Posted by: Pappy || 06/24/2013 13:41 Comments || Top||

#11  No truer words every spoken...
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/24/2013 13:53 Comments || Top||

Saudi seeks economic boost with switch to Fri-Sat weekend
...a kingdom taking up the bulk of the Arabian peninsula. Its primary economic activity involves exporting oil and soaking Islamic rubes on the annual hajj pilgrimage. The country supports a large number of princes in whatcha might call princely splendor. When the oil runs out the rest of the world is going to kick sand in the Soddy national face...
has changed its official weekend to Friday and Saturday, state news agency SPA reported.

A statement on SPA said the change, decreed by King Abdullah, will take effect as of this weekend, "for the sake of putting an end to the negative effects and the lost economic opportunities consistently associated with variation based on work days between local departments, ministries and institutions and the regional and international counterparts."

The move brings the kingdom in line with the rest of the Gulf, as well as being closer to the working hours of international financial markets and businesses.

The Saudi financial market, the largest Arab bourse in capitalization, works five days per week but with the previous Thursday and Friday weekend, only three days had matched those of the main global markets.

In April, the Saudi Shura Consultative Council had agreed to study a recommendation to switch the Islamic weekend in the kingdom to Friday and Saturday.
Posted by: Fred || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [296 views] Top|| File under:

#1  also makes Saudi Arabia consistent with Israel (although some work places are open until noon on Friday in Israel)
Posted by: lord garth || 06/24/2013 0:07 Comments || Top||

#2  Having a two day weekend sort of implies they are working the other five days.
Posted by: Grunter in Sydney || 06/24/2013 6:05 Comments || Top||

Britain Plans Visa Bonds for 'High-Risk' Asians, Africans
[An Nahar] Britannia is planning to force visitors from India, Pakistain, Nigeria and other countries whose nationals are deemed to pose a "high risk" of immigration abuse to provide a cash bond before they can enter the country, a report said Sunday.

The Sunday Times newspaper said that from November, a pilot scheme would target visitors from those three countries plus Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Ghana.

Visitors aged 18 and over would be forced to hand over £3,000 ($4,600, 3,500 euros) from November for a six-month visit visa.

They will forfeit the money if they overstay in Britannia after their visa has expired.

Initially the scheme will target hundreds of visitors, but the plan is to extend it to several thousand, according to the broadsheet's front-page report.

The weekly paper said the move by Home Secretary Theresa May is designed to show that Prime Minister David Cameron
... has stated that he is certainly a big Thatcher fan, but I don't know whether that makes me a Thatcherite, which means he's not. Since he is not deeply ideological he lacks core principles and is easily led. He has been described as certainly not a Pitt, Elder or Younger, but he does wear a nice suit so maybe he's Beau Brummel ...
's Conservative Party is serious about cutting immigration and abuses of the system.

The populist United Kingdom Independence Party has been encroaching on the Conservatives' traditional core vote in recent months.

Cameron wants annual net migration down below 100,000 by 2015.
Posted by: Fred || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [298 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sounds like a great idea, how about trying this on the United States ?
Posted by: Gleamp Shaimp6175 || 06/24/2013 10:59 Comments || Top||

#2  people are paying 10 times more than that to enter the U.K.

The deposit should be 50K, or a UK citizen guaranteeing that amount on their behalf PER YEAR they overstay.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles || 06/24/2013 12:07 Comments || Top||

#3  If they are that shaky, why let 'em in in the first place?
Posted by: SteveS || 06/24/2013 14:47 Comments || Top||

#4  SteveS wins the set.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 06/24/2013 15:56 Comments || Top||

Five of family slaughtered
[Pak Daily Times] Unidentified men killed five members of a family in Rajana village of Toba Tek Singh in the night between Saturday and Sunday. Police said the accused barged into a house in village Rajana, Chak 264, tied their victims' arms and slit their throats. The deceased were identified as Javed, his wife Tahira, their two sons, eight-year-old Ali Hassan and six-year-old Mohsin, and four-year-old daughter. Police shifted the bodies to hospital for postmortem and opened investigation. Police have arrested the wife of accused Imran and launched a search for him.
Posted by: Fred || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [315 views] Top|| File under:

Seminary students urged to acquire modern education
[Pak Daily Times] Scholars, intellectuals and holy mans have stressed the need for scholars and students of Madaris Arabia to get acquainted with modern subjects.

During their speeches at a training session organised by the Pakistain Ulema Council (PUC), they said that being an expert of religious education, an educator should also have the knowledge of worldly matters.

In their lectures to students, PUC Central Chairman Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmud Ashrafi, prominent intellectual Allama Sidiq Azhar, Mian Saifur Rehman, Khushnud Ali Khan, Tahir Malik and Dr Khaliqur Rehman provided guidance on different religious and worldly matters. They said that present-day circumstances required the scholars and students to get acquainted with modern subjects and focus on inter-faith and inter-sectarian dialogue. The leaders said that in order to mitigate the concerns that have been created or are being created about the students and scholars of Madaris Arabia, it was important to tell the world that Madaris Arabia were the true representatives of Islam. Those who use their seminaries to promote terrorism, extremism, inter-faith and inter-sectarian divisions and conflict are not the representatives of Islam, they said. The students and scholars, who attended the training session, appreciated the efforts of the PUC. They said that training sessions like these would provide guidance to the scholars and students of religious seminaries, and help them acquire awareness of the demands of present-day circumstances and guide them on what they needed to do in order to meet these demands.
Posted by: Fred || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [387 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Pakistan

#1  Female Studies? Deconstructionism?
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 06/24/2013 7:18 Comments || Top||

#2  Hell no, it'd interfere with their religious studies.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 06/24/2013 21:35 Comments || Top||

Kidnapping for ransom 'industry' booming in Karachi
[Pak Daily Times] The port city having fame for its industries has now given birth to a unique yet frightening industry of 'kidnapping for ransom', within few months this industry has generated huge money at the cost of life and peace in metropolis.

According to the data available to the sources in Citizens Police Liaison Committee (CPLC), from January to June 2013 about 74 cases have been registered. While in year 2012 the kidnappings done for ransom money broke all the records as 132 cases were registered at various cop shoppes of the city.

It is pertinent to mention here, keeping the performance of the police department, that more than 50 percent of affectees never complained or reported the incident with police, but preferred to pay a huge amount for the safe recovery of their love ones. The number of unreported cases is much higher than those being reported.

SSP Anti Violent Crime Cell (AVCC) Niaz Ahmed Khoso told this scribe that 66 of the total 74 kidnapping cases were resolved, while police is trying hard to recover the remaining 8 victims still in the custody of kidnappers. However,
there's no worse danger than telling a mother her baby is ugly...
sources said most of these cases were settled after paying ransom money to the captors.

The trend of kidnapping for ransom is the easiest way to make money. Kidnapers demand money for the release of kidnapee, where majority of people are willing to pay ransom for the release of their loved ones.

Sources privy to the matter said that areas including Super Highway, Northern Bypass, Gulshan-e-Iqbal, Defence, Gulistan-e-Jauhar, Shah Latif Town, Gadap Town and Bin Qasim Town are most hit by this menace.

CPLC revealed that majority of the affected families declined to register the case and also restrained police from interference for recovery of victims. They pointed out that there are two kinds of kidnapping gangs operating in the city.

The major groups are operating from interior Sindh, where such sort of group has been operating for long, whereas, the recently emerging groups hold affiliation with different terrorist organizations.

Sources further revealed that a few of the groups were locally operating while many of them were circumstantial group formed because of poverty. They said that intercity groups were usually taking the victims to their hometowns, where accessibility of law enforcers is limited because of the tribal system.
Posted by: Fred || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [312 views] Top|| File under:

Jews in Afghanistan
h/t Donald Sensing
A trove of ancient manuscripts in Hebrew characters rescued from caves in a Taliban stronghold in northern Afghanistan is providing the first physical evidence of a Jewish community that thrived there a thousand years ago.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 06/24/2013 15:39 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [316 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Pretty much means the Taliban has to blow up the whole country. That explains everything...
Posted by: M. Murcek || 06/24/2013 17:52 Comments || Top||

Home Front: Culture Wars
David Gregory to Glenn Greenwald: Are your papers in order?
Hot Blue on Blue action.
See everything!
From TFA:
NBC's David Gregory is taking a lot of heat for asking the Guardian's Glenn Greenwald on Sunday's Meet the Press if he should be charged with a crime for aiding and abetting National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden.
Point 1: if Champ and Holder can investigate Dave Rosen of the AP, they should be investigating Greenwald. If they do the former but not the latter it's the sort of educational glaring inconsistency that explains everything.

Point 2: if David Gregory can't see how idiotic it is for a journalist to be advocating that another journalist should be charged for leaking information, then it just makes clear that Gregory is so deep in the tank for Obama that he's grown gills.
Someone quipped on Twitter Sunday this is like watching Hitler attack Stalin. Hard to know who to root for...
It doesn't make me happy but I'll root for Stalin every time. But then again, to everyone's surprise (including mine) I live in Communist China now. There's no sales tax here and I don't pay a dime to the IRS. And when the ChiComs read all my emails and monitor my internet searches, at least they are up-front about it.
Posted by: badanov || 06/24/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [1217 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I don't recognize this site anymore. Why are you people standing up for useful idiots who are aiding and abetting Putin and the PRC? When did it become patriotic to defend flaming a*****es like Assange and Snowden and Manning and Glenn Greenwald?

How does that work, exactly?

Up is down and day is night. At Rantburg, of all places.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 0:48 Comments || Top||

#2  “We live in what’s called an open society, which of course means they open our emails, open our phone records, and open our medical records.” – Jay Leno
Posted by: Hupuque Bucket2093 || 06/24/2013 1:09 Comments || Top||

#3  “I got a call last night during dinner from Verizon asking me if I was happy with my long-distance surveillance.” – Bill Maher
Posted by: Hupuque Bucket2093 || 06/24/2013 1:10 Comments || Top||

#4  "There's a little irony in the government charging Snowden with spying right?" by: Alex Edeburn
Posted by: Hupuque Bucket2093 || 06/24/2013 1:15 Comments || Top||

#5  And trolls substituting washed-up comedians' witless jokes for logic or evidence.

Snowden is delivering secrets to our enemies. And you people are cheering him on.

Thus does the paranoid, mindless far right meet the brainless, America-hating Left at the scummy bottom of the political wheel.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 1:23 Comments || Top||

#6  I'm certainly not defending the foks [Greenwald or Snowden]. Remember, Snowden did vote for the Champ and I suspect Greenwald did as well. But what exactly are the crimes? What are the specific charges? Snowden still enjoys the "presumption of innocence" until proven guilty of something in a formal court of law. Rants from a fawning, feckless media don't constitute justice.

The irony here is, Snowden suspected he'd get no justice going through established whistleblowing channels. We also suspect that there will be no justice via a legal prosecution of Snowden. The regime has little desire to hang this laundry in an open courtroom, they'll just run out the clock as they are doing with F&F, Benghazi, and the rest, hoping it will go away or be forgotten.

It's classic black humour. Already knowing full well nothing will come of it in the end, we might as well watch it all and have a good laugh.

As far as the "damage to national security", please add it to Champ's bill will you ?
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/24/2013 1:49 Comments || Top||

#7  "The regime"? WTF?

So you're channeling Chomsky now?

Do you really hate America that much?
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 3:03 Comments || Top||

#8  "We might as well have a good laugh"

F--- you. Four laptops loaded with NSA sigint, hand delivered first to his Chinese minders and now to the FSB. And to you that's a joke? Because of your sick hatred for the man in the White House?

The lefties who cheered for our enemies to spite Bush made me sick. You're doing the same thing now, and it's equally repulsive.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 3:24 Comments || Top||

#9  The truth of the matter is that all the ideals we would LIKE to believe in about America are pretty thin to useless. When No one is the govt. is actually your friend you DO call it a "regime". No one in the present US govt. is our friend. Few ordinary people all across America today actually identify with Obama or TRUST him and they sure don't trust the IRS or the NSA or a host of other bureaucracies who have absolutely no loyalty to common ordinary individual Americans. The Washington bureaucracies serve THEMSELVES. They don't serve the US people.

Snowden was a fool and his only future now is to slit his wrists in some un- airconditioned back room upstairs in Ecuador looking out the windows at the pigs in the yard with the chickens. His bottom line is he DID take four laptops of secret data with him. He isn't a boy scout and he will be caught and shoved head first down the toilet.

The United States govt is STILL not your friend. It will not get better and your elected representatives are a nasty opportunistic completely bought bunch of shills.

The MSUSAMedia does have gills. We did elect a walking pile of garbage and half of the american population has a buttcrack at Walmart.

The only people I trust are the United States Marines. And since the actual Boyscouts went pinkboy I can't even be sure of that.

But then I am not Perry Como in a pastel sweater myself and I do have a concealed carry. I admire Boeseker and several of the others here. I still trust these guys....

Oh, BTW, you still live in a country where you do need to lock your doors at night. Howdy Doody is long gone and I never did like Buffalo Bob.
Posted by: Threater Flusoper9823 || 06/24/2013 4:45 Comments || Top||

#10  Lex,

I deleted several replies that were sure to get me sink-trapped. It's clear to those of us who lurk here daily that you HAVE not been reading the threads from the start on this subject. Those from the Intel community here have had mixed opinions and so have many others. Is he a traitor? Yes, I think so. But then I also think this entire Administration is a bunch of traitors far worse than Clinton and his mafia were. And yet, at this time, what is there that we can do about it? All the admin is going to do is stuff Snowden down a hole til he's forgotten. His bosses won't be held accountable, and neither will anyone else.

At this point in the game, all we can do is find a little humor in it to laugh at since the culture war is still in a tense peace.

I really don't see what you are expecting Lex. The people here are way past tired of venting angry words about the crimes of this government. It won't solve anything and it doesn't even make you feel better. It's not like we can force the government to do anything right now either.

If venting like this is what keeps you sane, fine, vent away. But understand that just because you vent, it doesn't change the reality of this moment.
Posted by: Silentbrick - Schlumberger Squishy Mud Division || 06/24/2013 5:44 Comments || Top||

#11  Five years into the Obama regime, and I doubt anything on Mr Snowden's laptops came as news to the Russians or the Chinese.
Posted by: Grunter in Sydney || 06/24/2013 6:20 Comments || Top||

#12  "The regime"? WTF?

So you're channeling Chomsky now?

Do you really hate America that much?

Rush Limbaugh started using the term "regime" in reference to the Obama administration the spring of 2009. I don't think he hates America.
Posted by: badanov || 06/24/2013 6:57 Comments || Top||

#13  1,5,7,8. Am I correct in assuming we have have a leftard pretending to be (that he thinks) a "right-winger"? Or do we have a genuine rightard?
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 06/24/2013 7:08 Comments || Top||

#14  Threater Flusoper9823, remember---there's only one Joseph Mendiola.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 06/24/2013 7:10 Comments || Top||

#15  badanov, long time no see. Ni hao.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 06/24/2013 7:22 Comments || Top||

#16  Been here right along, just like you, only lurking as a commenter, Grom.

Trying to get another e-book ready for sale.

(Yes, that is a shameless ebook promotion.)
Posted by: badanov || 06/24/2013 7:38 Comments || Top||

#17  To be fair, the American Left used 'regime' to describe the Bush administration, and they certainly hated him, and likely hated the America he (and we) stand for.

Lex: who in the world are you? And why have you not been reading the Burg consistently?

See my two points in salmon color above. I stand by them: this administration has attacked journalists who do their jobs but are giving Glen Greenwald a pass. Why? And David Gregory, a useless idiot, doesn't understand that he's a tool and is destined to be a resident in the American Gulag someday. He'll no doubt petition Stalin Obama: "if only he knew".

Now then: it's a little hard to know for sure what to think of Snowden since we don't have all the facts. He sure does look like a traitor. But consider: what 'secrets' did he reveal? What sources did he compromise? What's the harm? All that goes into the calculation of whether and how he's a traitor.

Further, Lex: who's behind him? You mean to tell me that Snowden, a high school dropout, working a temporary job, who stated even before the got the job that he was going to reveal secrets, somehow used his 'sys admin' privileges to fill four laptops (rather dramatic that, eh)? Really?

Who helped Snowden? Who gathered the information? Who got him the job? He's a catspaw.

But I've been saying that the last two weeks. If only you'd been here.
Posted by: Steve White || 06/24/2013 7:38 Comments || Top||

#18  Sorry if I have offended with my 'regime' descriptor Lex, but one has to somehow separate cheap political theater from reality. The benefits [mind you there are painfully few] of old age, hemorrhoids and poor vision one must sit still long enough to concentrate, to reflect on history and personal experience, while at the same time not disrupt steady blood pressure. Having an understanding of Chicago machine politics is also a plus. More than a few who frequent this blog are quite adept at sitting still and using common sense to make fairly accurate intelligence assessments. Black humour if you will, sometimes help mask the pain.

The commonly used term "irreparable harm to national security" is somewhat vague. Forgive me, but I prefer specifics. To coin a phrase somewhat in vogue, my day-to-day "line in the sand" has become.... 'dead Americans'. If Americans somewhere are dying, then the system is not working properly, be it Waco, PanAm 103, Beirut Marine Barracks, The World Trade Center, FOB Chapman in AFG, Benghazi, or the Boston Bombing.

Political embarrassment does not necessarily constitute "Irreparable harm to national security". I have no particular use for the Snowdens, but no one has turned up dead yet, so let's conduct the damage assessments and use this incident as an opportunity to, if nothing else, fix some obvious OPSEC problems.

As far as Laptops goes, Add Snowden's to this aging and badly out of date list.
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/24/2013 7:45 Comments || Top||

#19  Besoeker makes an excellent point we should remember: political embarrassment does not equate to a breach in national security. Every president since Washington has tried to invoke this humbug at some point, and it rarely works.

Again, to Lex: Edward Snowden is a mope. He's a cheap version of Julian Assange. I see little difference in ensconcing him in Ecuador versus a maximum security prison in the U.S. They're welcome to the skinny little creep.

I have yet to see a true breach of national security. Maybe there is and the right people in Washington are keeping their mouths shut (for once) to try and limit the damage. Perhaps we'll hear at some point what secrets he revealed that harm our country.

But what's been put out so far is a big nothing-burger. You mean the NSA intercepts communications abroad? You mean they're really doing the job we've been paying them to do this past half-century or more, and that the whole intelligent world knows they've been doing all this time? Really?

On what day did you fall off the turnip truck, Lex?

What this scandal (that's what it is so far), the IRS scandal, the AP tapping scandal, the Benghazi affair (which DID impact national security), and our Middle Eastern policy have shown us is this:

1) our current administration is incompetent at governance
2) that's because it spends way too much time trying to control its citizens

To some, those points are a feature, not a problem. That's another problem.
Posted by: Steve White || 06/24/2013 9:01 Comments || Top||

#20  Some additional perspective from Roger Simon at PJM.
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/24/2013 9:39 Comments || Top||

#21  I sense Lex is deeply concerned about this business and I don't blame him, it very confusing.

Posted by: Shipman || 06/24/2013 9:52 Comments || Top||

#22  I agree with Besoeker, Threater Flusoper9823, Silentbrick, Steve White, badanov, and others here. We have a far too bloated government that is self-serving. We are over-regulated and the free-market has be damaged severely. PC dictates over having meaningful debates. Bills are passed in Congress without anyone reading them. It is left to the agencies to make requirements up as they go along. It is full of corruption. The administration can't tell the truth to the people about anything. The government has created a schism between itself and the people--basically a culture of us (the government) vs. them (the people). There is no accountability in government. Whistle-blower laws have not worked well--nearly everyone trying to address corruption has paid a heavy price. Scandal after scandal has emerged that has not been addressed in a way that say, Watergate was. Benghazi, Fast & Furious, Soyndra, Cash for Clunkers, corporate bailouts (mainly to pay off the unions), the IRS, NSA, and others. The main stream media has been "bought" and are basically willing watercarriers for the present administration and the left (check journolists and check George Soros). People are basically here to provide taxes and serve the government--except for the 47% who don't pay taxes. The Constitution and the rule of law have been undermined. Immigration reform has become a cruel joke. The existing laws are not enforced. Voting laws have been corrupted. Election outcomes are suspect. I worry that we are not far from a complete breakdown of order.

If people have been paying attention to this site over the years, posters have criticized both Bush when appropriate and Obama. It just seems that things have drifted far left and basically we have a government that is driven by a cult of personality and aided and abetted by the press. The 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments have suffered greatly over the recent years in the name of protecting the country from terrorism--I'm afraid as Franklin said, if we continue down this path, and give up freedom for security we won't have or deserve either.

So I ask you Lex, what do you expect from the people of this country at this time?
Posted by: JohnQC || 06/24/2013 10:08 Comments || Top||

#23  Basically, short of an all out nuclear exchange or the release of a custom made bug more lethal than the original Black Plague, no outside power has the ability to bring this country down anytime in the near future. It's the internal destruction both of the culture and the legitimacy of the government that can end this experiment. We're headed there fast. We're watching the warning signs of the end of the republic. We're about the Gracchi brothers period that the Romans went through to the Caesars. Democracy is an unnatural form of governing in history far more than the hierarchical versions of rule. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Baron Acton
Posted by: Procopius2k || 06/24/2013 10:28 Comments || Top||

#24  I began reading this site about eight or nine years ago. I'm a national security liberal who was disgusted by the Howard Dean and other Bush-derangement syndrome Democrats' vicious, in many cases bad faith, attacks on our president and our military. I didn't agree with everthing, esp the TeaParty silliness on domestic issues when that started to gain a following a few years later, but I did enjoy the insider view on military and intel matters that came from OldSpook, Pappy, Bulldog and TrailingWife.

For job and other reasons (family health and financial issues), around 2010 I stopped visiting and sinking time into political bloggery including this one. I was not a fan of Obama's prior to that time, but since then I've seen him demonstrate an iron ruthlessness in the WOT - drone attacks, continuing with Gitmo and renditions, and overruling his advisers on snuffing Bin Laden - and I've changed my view. It also helps that, in the teeth of TP madmen he persevered with that crucial reform that has, finally, allowed my family to get health insurance instead of being denied same by a rapacious for-profit health insurance mafia due to the bogus pretext of what they call a "pre-existing condition." (Y'all in the military have never faced this absurd, outrageous abuse. No civilized country allows this like we do.)

So when the Snowden $hit hit the fan, I came back to Rantburg expecting to see some sanity on this issue instead of the paranoia, the ignorance of technology and the law, and the frothing hatred of the president that we now see from both the Nutroots and the far right maroons. I would have thought the intel/military community here would have understood how the NSA works and has worked, for many years now, or that electronic intercepts have been around for effing SIXTY ONE YEARS. One could also expect a right-leaning crowd to get its schooling on legal-constitutional nat. sec'y matters from rational, deeply informed insider experts like National Review's Andy McCarthy.

But no. More frothing paranoia. Embarrassing ignorance. And of course, an old friend of Rantburg who calls this out is labeled a "troll" when he stands up for national security and the incredibly tightly restricted surveillance procedures that have been plain as day to anyone who was paying attention all these years.

and now the final descent into incoherence, above, from Boris badenough: from his refuge in the PRC, he praises for the banditry and thuggery of Communist China and by implication Putin's mafiya state (the late great Hitchens called it "cockroach capitalism").

I don't recognize this place. I don't recognize my fellow citizens anymore either: right and left descending deeper into paranoia and Internet- fueled stoopidity. I feel like a JFK supporter in 1963, surrounded by little Bircher nutcases and Stalinists...
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 10:41 Comments || Top||

#25  and now the final descent into incoherence, above, from Boris badenough: from his refuge in the PRC, he praises for the banditry and thuggery of Communist China and by implication Putin's mafiya state (the late great Hitchens called it "cockroach capitalism").

I suggest you either get your eyes checked, or you get checked for a reading comprehension problem.

I did the blue colored commentary on the article including the headline, as well as my two comments.

How the f*ck you got that from what I have posted is anyone's guess.

You know, we went through this very thing waay back in 2005 when a lot of "national security liberals" decided that Bush was evil and the left were good. So, now you got what you wanted, a liberal in the White House, but you attack us for using humor in the face of the raw power that that very liberal wields against conservatives.

And I can tell you are a liberal by what you have written. It's all about behavior instead of freedom with your ilk, isn't it. You talk the talk about national security but you walk the walk of your boy God Barky.

Good luck with that in the future because, in my opinion it has none here.
Posted by: badanov || 06/24/2013 10:59 Comments || Top||

#26  Champ is doing everything Bush was accused of. The short term damage of the Snowden leak is considerably less than the long term damage this administration is doing.
Posted by: Iblis || 06/24/2013 11:18 Comments || Top||

#27  "Raw power"? That's your weird paranoid fantasy. The Chinese use "raw power." So does Putin. Nothing that has benn done by either party or recent president in this country comes anywhere close to what is done, routinely, by the leaders of China and Russia. Putin has ordered the assassination of over a dozen Russian journalists; the siloviki have killed dozens more Russian citizens.

And now as of 11:17am ET, it appears that the FSB is now Snowden's master. Even odds that this deluded little $hit follows in Philby and Mackean's footsteps for the next 5-10 years. Or until Putin's chased out by his own people, finally rising up against his mafiya thuggery and bandit state. At which point Snowden will be on the run again.

[PS "Covert", before you attack someone's good faith and threaten him at someone else's website, you might want to stop using that site to tout your commercial interests. Bad form.]
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 11:18 Comments || Top||

#28  Hey Lex, Badanov's comments are blue, I'm the one in the PRC now. As someone with a pre-existing condition, I too appreciate finally being able to get insurance, but Obamacare is totally overblown, and the deductibles are high and the coverage is pretty crappy. I'm not a fan, but I don't apologize for giving 'em credit for being open about watching everything and everyone. You might like living in a secret surveillance state but I think I actually prefer a more openly oppressive society.
Posted by: Scooter McGruder || 06/24/2013 11:19 Comments || Top||

#29  If there is paranoia on the part of the public outside of the bubble of government, there is nothing like truth to remove that paranoia. Suppose, for a minute that what you are hearing is not paranoia but what is actually going on? One does not get much comfort from watching CSPAN Congressional intelligence and security hearings. Specifically, I'm referring to the House hearings where the NSA head, and representatives from the FBI and another agency testified. This appearance to seemed be a mutual admiration society annual get-together which was scripted beforehand. What is it that the American people cannot hear? Americans give their lives to protect this country. Don't we and they deserve more? Currently, there is an impenetrable curtain of secrecy and over-classification of information. Just as Snowden deserves a hearing where he is not considered guilty before such a hearing, the government needs to explain what irreparable harm has been done to our country by Snowden. A good airing-out needs to occur. National security is important. Freedom is more important.
Posted by: JohnQC || 06/24/2013 11:22 Comments || Top||

#30  Oh, for the curious: just learned that Russian Internet connections are down. Skype ne rabotayet. Incoming phone call from R. was cut short just now.

Prediction: Snowden will end up in a pod-moskovskiye safe house and will be drained of every last scrap of info on our sigint techniques. Then traded for favors a la the Cuban for Turkey-based missile swap in 1962.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 11:25 Comments || Top||

#31  You may have something there, Lex, after all Snowden 'missed' his plane to Cuba. Add-in four laptops...three of which were most likely stolen from his employer...and the Ruskies might as well have an office in the NSA now.
Posted by: Mugsy Glink || 06/24/2013 11:36 Comments || Top||

#32  Snowden is a cat's paw,

Posted by: Gleamp Shaimp6175 || 06/24/2013 11:48 Comments || Top||

#33  We are way past paranoid fantasy. When a president uses the tax authority of his government to stop funding his political opponents, a known fact, that is not fantasy but a reality of what a tyrant does. Tyrants use taxing power against his opponents. That is raw power. You think of it as using force, but what is force if not the ability to cut off funding?

Sorta like when you complain about my "bad form". That's what tyrants do. When you disagree with an opponent you go after the opponent rather than debate the merits. That's what liberals do. That is what you are doing.

Something else I should say just to clarify: I am not trading on what I write here to sell books. That is separate. You want to make issue of some nexus between what I have written in my capacity as a citizen and what I am trying to sell, I can't stop you.

As for the issue of my putative threats, I fail to see in what way you were threatened here.

You should probably clarify rather than let the comment stand, so I can be clear about the nature of the supposed threat I pose to you.
Posted by: badanov || 06/24/2013 11:57 Comments || Top||

#34  Way too much above to comment except to say that "regime" usage is apropos since it identifies a rigged system where traditional/oppositional ideas are thwarted by the tri-fecta: out of control Government, the educational system and media.
Posted by: Jack Salami || 06/24/2013 12:15 Comments || Top||

#35  Obama didn't pressure the IRS. That came from a mid-level Republican IRS manager who was just trying to interpret a stupidly-crafted SCOTUS decision that put him and his colleagues in an impossible damned-if-we-do, damned-if-we-don't position. Enough with the conspiracy lunacy.
Oh fer god's sake. That's just stupid.

It was the Chicago way: "will no one rid me of this meddlesome Tea Party?" And lo, it happened. Funny thing, too, that all the progressive 501(c)4 applications from the same time period sailed through the approvals process without having to disclose their donors.

You can push your nonsense at Kos but it doesn't fly with educated people.

Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 12:31 Comments || Top||

#36  LOL!

Yes. Let's all be good little liberals and discuss the IRS the way liberals our betters want us to.

Freedom is such a foreign concept to liberals.

This is a debate, not a script.
Posted by: badanov || 06/24/2013 12:35 Comments || Top||

#37  B - Perhaps I misinterpreted your thinly-veiled threat, above, to the effect that I should be blocked from the burg: "Good luck with that in the future because, in my opinion, *it has none here *."

Fwiw, I may well leave the site if the new, prevailing view here is that our elected democratic gov't is somehow a totalitarian "regime." That's bat$hit crazy, and can only be said by blowhards who have never lived and worked under such a regime.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 12:36 Comments || Top||

#38  I call, whatever one calls when being the first to spot a troll.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 06/24/2013 12:40 Comments || Top||

#39  Not so much a troll as a rube on the path to self identification. We should help him on his journey, not name call.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 06/24/2013 12:50 Comments || Top||

#40  Don't feed the Trolls.
Posted by: Sum Dum Guy || 06/24/2013 12:54 Comments || Top||

#41  Lex:

Democratically elected dictators and totalitiarian regimes are becoming quite common.
Posted by: Iblis || 06/24/2013 12:55 Comments || Top||

#42  As a point of order, the collection of tax is the use of force by a government against its citizens. Don't want to pay taxes, ask Wesley Snipes. When I ring people up, sales tax is not an option. Now, how we feel that lost revenue is being spent directly influences how we feel about that tax being collected and/or what it is used for. So yes, the politicizing of what should be, for its own sake, completely neutral parts of the government is and always should be a concern. These are faceless tax collectors, the tax collectors' historic take being well deserved, and they should be monitored and rocked when out of line out of mission. Its why no taxation without representation should mold you to the bone.

Second, I can imagine being a wide receiver for the Saints and being both appreciative of the knowledge that the defense end is/was targeting opponents' offense for injury, and also being disgusted that your worst fears were confirmed and by your own team nonetheless.

Back on point, this administration, if I can call it that, has more leaks than the halftime of the Super Bowl. In fact, I could argue that it is administration and policy by leaking - and it makes people whose jobs and perhaps ideology is guided by it. Like planning your vacation dependant upon what the coworkers at the water cooler have to say. Rumor has it that Branson is for loosers, well re-plan for California or shuttupaboutit.

And for the record, I don't remember any high-5'ing here at Rantburg, and even a few threads of good posters throwing some flags at the guy/situation.
Posted by: swksvolFF || 06/24/2013 13:02 Comments || Top||

#43  Nimble - my convictions haven't changed. I want my elected leaders to ruthlessly prosecute the WOT while working within the bipartisan, carefully crafted restrictions imposed on the surveillance state. Please read Andy McCarthy's detailed, expert inside description ( cf his recent National Review article on blowhard Foghorn Leghorn) to see just how careful and sweeping these restrictions actually are.

As I said above, I support this president's ruthless prosecution of the WOT just as I supported the previous one's. Has each made mistakes? Of course. So did JFK (read Donald Kahan's take on his misjudgments of Khrushchev). So did Reagan.

But these were honest mistakes made by democratically elected leaders trying to thread the needle. None of your/Snowden's new-found mates in the Kremlin, or the Ecuadorian embassy or the ClearChannel broadcast booth, gives a rat's ass about preserving this balance. Those odious characters deserve our scorn, not slavish praise and foolish defense.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 13:05 Comments || Top||

#44  and the Ruskies might as well have an office in the NSA now. Posted by Mugsy Glink

One in NSA, one in the White House. A matched set.
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/24/2013 13:07 Comments || Top||

#45  "...and the Ruskies might as well have an office in the NSA now."

I assume they already do. We've built a surveillance apparatus so far reaching and with so many participants accessing it that it's a sure bet the systems will be subverted.
Posted by: Classical_Liberal || 06/24/2013 13:26 Comments || Top||

#46  Based on Lex's #35 we need an ignore button. Lex is an idiot.
Posted by: Hellfish || 06/24/2013 13:28 Comments || Top||

#47  The endgame here is that Putin will demand, in exchange for handing over Snowden once they've drained him of all his sigint files and knowledge, that the US neuter the Magnitsky Act, cease all support for NGOs in Russia, and give him a green light for his head-bashing and gulag activity domestically.

Plus more intel-sharing. Which means the net effect of this little $hit's misguided stunt will be to increase repression globally and to reinforce Putin's repression. Molodets!
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 13:33 Comments || Top||

"The regime"? WTF?

So you're channeling Chomsky now?

Do you really hate America that much?

Nope. I hate the administration that used the feral government to drive its critics out of the political arena, and which turned the tools for security against foreign threats towards the people that much.
Posted by: Rob Crawford || 06/24/2013 13:39 Comments || Top||

#49  The endgame here is that Putin will demand, in exchange for handing over Snowden once they've drained him of all his sigint files and knowledge, that the US neuter the Magnitsky Act, cease all support for NGOs in Russia, and give him a green light for his head-bashing and gulag activity domestically.

Who will want him back? Let him stay with his new friends.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 06/24/2013 13:47 Comments || Top||

#50  I'd like him to come back, be convicted and given a Pollard-ish sentence, with some reduction if he agrees to pass on to the other inmates whatever his gf taught him about pole-dancing.

He and Manning could entertain the gang a la Bialystok & Blum: everybody now - "Pris'ners in love..."
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 13:52 Comments || Top||

#51  As should have been obvious ever since Greenwald revealed that Snowden approached him long BEFORE taking the NSA job, this is a case of espionage, pure and simple. Not a brave truth teller, not John Galt striking at the evil statists blah blah blah.

Check out the latest from Hong Kong:
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 14:03 Comments || Top||

#52  I suspect he is more of a self-righteous post-adolescent punk who got in over his pinhead and really screwed the pooch.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 06/24/2013 14:41 Comments || Top||

#53  Another perspective, from The War Room.
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/24/2013 14:49 Comments || Top||

#54  As I said above, I support this president's ruthless prosecution of the WOT just as I supported the previous one's. Has each made mistakes? Of course. So did JFK (read Donald Kahan's take on his misjudgments of Khrushchev). So did Reagan.

Ruthless? He discovered the Pakistan continued to shield Bin Laden but did nothing whatsoever to counteract this.


He passively-aggressively gave up our hard-won basing rights in Iraq (to the tune of ~ 5k dead American soldiers) but then acts so surprised when he's unable to get Iraq to do anything to stop the flow of Iranian arms to Syria.

I suppose that's supposed to be ruthless too.

I'm not the one who said all the bad things in the Russian/American relationship were Bush's fault and pretended they weren't going to be there _after_ Obama was elected.

I'm not the one who said that my Administration would have more flexibility in dealing with Russia after I was re-elected. Mr. Ruthless did.

Finally, I'm not the one who refused to send an in-extremis force to help an ambassador under attack by terrorists we armed in the first place.

Hmm., now that I think about it, that _is_ pretty ruthless. For an agent provocateur, but not for anyone else. Was that the sort of ruthless you were hoping for?

And now you're concerned that the Moscow/Shanghai/Beijing branches of the Red Mafia are dangerous. And we all have to shut the fuck up and be good little cheerleaders of the Diaper Baby branch of the Red Mafia currently controlling DC.

Well, I got news for you: Snowden only acted on the set of moral values that people like Obama, and Bill Ayers, and Sec. of State John F. Kerry, have been teaching for the last forty-five years or so: that we were morally wrong and the Moscow-based and Beijing-based branches of the Red Mafia were morally right.

If this batch of craven idiots really were serious about the sudden existance of (former)-Soviet antagonism they would resign in shame.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain || 06/24/2013 15:03 Comments || Top||

#55  One final note on the new Cold War and its discontents: Snowden and his supporters wouldn't be able to tell the lies and half-truths he has to both himself and to the TV cameras, nor enable those of Putin and whoever is China's Mini-Mao right now, if Obama did not create for himself credibility problems, both by turning the federal bureaucracy into an enforcement mechanism against his political opponents and by creating a far-reaching surveillance network, that judging by the Boston Bombings, _didn't work_.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain || 06/24/2013 15:11 Comments || Top||

#56  IF there's a New Cold War, the Obama Administrations' bureaucratic war-by-other-means against his domestic opposition has been about as useful to the US as George Wallace's various efforts on behalf of segregation.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain || 06/24/2013 15:18 Comments || Top||

#57  Mid level IRS manager? Would that be the registered democrat Lois Lerner currently on paid leave after taking the 5th? Does that mean to you that the 8 democrat Senators asking for Tea Party scruitiny in 2010 had no bearing on the IRSA decisions at the highest levels?
Posted by: Mugsy Glink || 06/24/2013 15:18 Comments || Top||

#58  Let's compare Obama and Bush - again, I've supported both, first against the bat$hit left and now against the right-wing neo-Bircher nuts. Here's Richard Clarke reminding everyone of the basic facts:

"What would be best for the country on the issue of counterterrorism is if we could somehow manage to return it to a nonpartisan matter. Unfortunately, this early in the election year, that seems unlikely. Therefore, voters should be advised to look carefully at claims that are made by both sides, and stick to the facts.
"Ten facts that tell the true story:
First, the Bush administration moved assets to Iraq away from the search for Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Second, in 2006, the Bush administration closed the Bin Laden unit at the CIA in a reorganization.
Third, Bush changed his rhetoric from wanting Bin Laden “dead or alive” to publicly minimizing his importance. (Mitt Romney followed this pattern, saying in 2007, “It’s not worth moving heaven and earth spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person.”)
Fourth, in 2007, candidate Obama said he would send troops into Pakistan to get Bin Laden, unilaterally if necessary, and was criticized by leading Republicans (Romney included) for saying so.
Fifth, after he took office, Obama directed an increased priority be given to getting Bin Laden.
Sixth, the President personally participated in repeated high-level meetings on his aggressive new strategy for getting Al Qaeda and its leaders in Pakistan.
Seventh, Obama ordered a dramatic increase in drone attacks in Pakistan, wiping out Al Qaeda leaders and making it almost impossible for Bin Laden’s senior commanders to operate there.
Eighth, the President rejected cabinet members’ advice and ordered the raid that killed Bin Laden to go ahead.
Ninth, it was the commander-in-chief who ordered that additional helicopters be made part of the operation, a decision that turned out to be crucial.
Tenth, Bin Laden is dead.
This is not to say that counterterrorism professionals weren’t hard at work in the Bush administration trying to do what they could to get Bin Laden. But it is to note that the elected and politically appointed officials of that administration did much less than they could have done to get Bin Laden both before 9/11 and after it.
Nor is it to say that the threat from Al Qaeda is over. Its franchises, particularly the one in Yemen, are still a significant danger, and the group there still wants to target the United States. Drones and Special Forces used by the Obama administration are stepping up the tempo of operations even further against Al Qaeda in Yemen.
Because the effort to eliminate Al Qaeda is not yet over, who our elected and politically appointed leaders are still matters. And so do the facts.

Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 15:31 Comments || Top||

#59  As for killing bin Laden, even Lenin knew that you gotta protect the revolution.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 06/24/2013 15:37 Comments || Top||

#60  Cut and pasted. It's the administration's line.

And if there's anything more to Al Qaeda than Osama Bin Laden, it's wrong.

He was discovered living in a special Pakistani military zone. Which fact Pakistan has suffered NO consequences for. And which we can't really do anything about, as Super-Genius moved troops back to Afghanistan, where we have to supply them via one of two routes: Through Pakistan, or Through Putin's Commonwealth of Independent States.

We bomb Al Qaeda in Yemen and supply them in Libya and Syria. And they nearly took over Mali from what they managed to get in Libya.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain || 06/24/2013 15:42 Comments || Top||

#61  And part of the cost of shifting all that stuff to Afghanistan was that the US gave up basing rights in Iraq. Just in time for the Syrian Civil War. (The other side of which is supported by Putin, who you think opposing is important when you can beat up straw men, but apparently not otherwise).
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain || 06/24/2013 15:44 Comments || Top||

#62  Thing -"admin talking points"? You do realize that Clarke served in *Bush's* admin, don't you? He knows, as everyone does now, that Bush and Romney tried to pooh pooh the importance of Bin Laden.

If you want to make an argument supported by logic and evidence, cool. I gave you one: a detailed, point by point comparison of the two admins re Bin Laden in 2004-2011. It's about as complete and devastating a defense of Obama's record on ObL as you'll find. Your turn.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 15:50 Comments || Top||

#63  The NSA is the Obama Regime's KGB. Agents and controllers. Domestic intelligence gathering for the purpose of targeting internal threats to the Regime was standard procedure.

The KGB infiltrated opposition groups to influence and provide information back to the directorate. The NSA is now doing the same thing.

But Obama, his regime, and his sycophants (aka fawning parasites) as you can tell on this thread are in full panic mode. Snowden has now in the presence of the world's most famous former KGB agent who is far more capable, cunning and lethal to the Obama Regime. And frankly, I don't give a damn about the Obama regime, nor does the rest of the world.

Posted by: Hupuque Bucket2093 || 06/24/2013 15:50 Comments || Top||

#64  Thanks for leaving your picture Hup.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 06/24/2013 15:59 Comments || Top||

#65  Forget bin Laden. He was never anything but a small time terrorist and a tool or our real enemies. The Paks could have turned him over to us any time they wanted but they never did. Why not? The worst enemies of the United States are China, Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. And how does Obama deal with them. He kisses their asses. Get real.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 06/24/2013 16:01 Comments || Top||

#66  AoS - you're behind the curve. John Shafer, a conservative Republican manager in the Cincinnati IRS office, has put forth sworn testimony that debunks your fevered conspiracy theories. Issa tried and failed to quash it, but it's out now. The White House didn't direct this, sorry.. Time to bring your knowledge up to date, Ace.
Any time you want to explain Lois Lerner and the many Democrats in that office who did what they were told to do by the White House, do so.

Your move, pal.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 16:08 Comments || Top||

#67  What's the frequency, Hup?

And just what are they doing with our precious bodily fluids?
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 16:10 Comments || Top||

#68  You were doing well until you got to the It was a Bush-Republican Mid-level Manager case closed part. Let that segment go, you still have a fighting chance with the rest.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/24/2013 16:11 Comments || Top||

#69  Fine, Shipman, whatever. Just tired of the conspiracy-everywhere mindlessness that seems to have infected so many minds here. The paranoid style may be a hardy perennial in US politics, but it's toxic. Bad for the discussion, bad for the country.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 16:20 Comments || Top||

#70  Back on topic, Russian experts weigh in on what's likely happening with the once (and future) would-be male modeling king at his safe house in the ol' Soyuz.

Interesting thoughts above on whether he's actually in a third country - probably Belarus, on the Old Smolensk Road.
Posted by: Lex || 06/24/2013 16:26 Comments || Top||

#71  "Your turn."

You merely posted a victory-lap newsclip and didn't actually stop to address any of my arguments. You argue by refusing to acknowledge that giving up all influence in Iraq has had detrimental effects on things you claim are important: Opposing Vladimir Putin and his allies in Syria, for example. And you refuse to acknowledge that not following up on the linkage between Bin Laden and the Pakistani government that was sheltering him has also hurt us.

What next, you'll have another newsclip talking about how the apparent life imprisonment of the Pakistani agent who _found_ Bin Laden in a Pakistani prison is apparently a good thing? Maybe it'll have some Senior Bush-Administration Bureaucrats and you'll pretend that makes the points inarguable?
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain || 06/24/2013 17:20 Comments || Top||

#72  A final statement of mine for a bit:

Maybe if the administration hadn't worked so hard to remake the intelligence apparatus in its own image it wouldn't have been so damn easy for Putin to have penetrated it like this?
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain || 06/24/2013 17:35 Comments || Top||

#73  Lex (Luther?) I see you are taking the Elijah Cummins route of "nothing to see here". Perhaps you can go back a few weeks and check this WSJ story:
And while you are checking your dnc meme list for retorts, the IRS scandal is far from over with this bunch, unless you subscribe to Jay the Carney saying it happened a long time ago.
Posted by: Mugsy Glink || 06/24/2013 17:40 Comments || Top||

#74  Thing -I don't agree with everything Obama's done. UMO we shoulda kepta base in Kurdistan, but I'm not a military strategist. Iraq is and was a mess with no good options. Ditto for Iran, and for Putin's gangster state. He's made a few mistakes. So did W, and Reagan, and JFK, and ....

Which is why I refuse to play the game of saying that President [insert your favorite scapegoat here] is an Alien Sent to Destroy Life On Earth / The Manchurian Candidate / the Golem or whatever. A little more complicated than all these fever swamp conspiracies make it out to be.
Posted by: Don Vito Splat3043 || 06/24/2013 17:44 Comments || Top||

#75  A secret is best kept between two persons only, one of them dead.

When I hear that half a million people have TS clearance, you might as well give up.
Posted by: European Conservative || 06/24/2013 18:34 Comments || Top||

#76  Liberal trolls are so stupid.

Putin sent for Snowden to find out if it was Obama or Kerry who told his wife about the gymnast.
Posted by: Hupuque Bucket2093 || 06/24/2013 19:59 Comments || Top||

#77  Dear Lex, let me say only that I really don't belong on a list of those who have an insider perspective on matters military and intelligence, but I am highly flattered that is how you mis-remember me. Please be a little more polite in your opening remarks next time, to avoid the "Chew toy!!" reaction.

Other than that, I am too tired to contribute intelligently to this thread. A rough start, but y'all have done what we do best at Rantburg: bring out the facts from different sources, and beat them into submission. Snowy Thing, in my opinion you win the thread.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/24/2013 23:21 Comments || Top||

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Mon 2013-06-24
  Pak Talibs kill 10 foreign tourists in Diamer
Sun 2013-06-23
  Dutch Say Time of 'Ever Closer' Union in Europe is Over
Sat 2013-06-22
  Britain OKs Treaty Clearing Way to Deport Abu Qatada to Jordan
Fri 2013-06-21
  Today's Pakaboom: 15 Dead in Peshawar Mosquaboom
Thu 2013-06-20
  Hizbullah Leader's Brother Killed In Syria Clashes
Wed 2013-06-19
  20 killed after militants storm UN compound in Somalia
Tue 2013-06-18
  Today's Pakaboom: 18 dead at Mardan funeral
Mon 2013-06-17
  LeJ claims twin attacks
Sun 2013-06-16
  Double blasts kill 25 in Pakistan
Sat 2013-06-15
  Mali's Tuareg rebels ready to sign peace deal
Fri 2013-06-14
  Mortars Fired at Damascus Airport, Delay 3 Flights
Thu 2013-06-13
  60 Boko Haram members killed in Maiduguri
Wed 2013-06-12
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Tue 2013-06-11
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Mon 2013-06-10
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