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Saudi 'cop killers' shot dead
Today's Headlines
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Page 2: WoT Background
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Page 4: Opinion
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Kim Jong Il 'An Evil Man' - U.S. Army Deserter
US Army deserter Charles Jenkins said today he regrets leaving his post for communist North Korea, where he spent nearly 40 years, and called the isolated country's dictator Kim Jong Il "an evil man." Jenkins, 65, said he was never brainwashed but lived in harsh conditions in North Korea and never expected to see his mother again. He was reunited with his 91-year-old mother, Pattie, last week. Jenkins, speaking from his sister's home in Weldon, North Carolina, said he was sorry that as a 24-year-old sergeant with the US Army's 1st Calvary Division, he left the squad he was leading on patrol in the Demilitarised Zone and walked into North Korea on July 5, 1965. "I let my soldiers down. I let the US Army down. I let the government down, and I made it very difficult for my family in the US to live," Jenkins said, according to a story posted on The News & Observer of Raleigh's website.

While he appeared in North Korean propaganda films and taught English, Jenkins said North Korean agents were never able to break him and he was never brainwashed. North Korea's Kim Jong Il "is an evil man," Jenkins said."He only believes in one thing — his own personal luxury life." Jenkins remained in North Korea after his wife, who had been kidnapped from Japan in 1978, returned to her home country in 2002. Jenkins reunited with his wife last year in Japan, where he was court-martialed and served 25 days in a US military jail. Jenkins has said he has no plans to move permanently back to the US and only wanted to see his ailing mother and make one last visit to his homeland. He was accompanied by his wife and their two daughters, and they plan to return to Japan this week.
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/21/2005 11:25 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10796 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ah well, sounds to me like he served hard time. This one looks like a good one to apply the forgive and forget rule. A stupid decision of youth that literally cost him his life. Too bad, so sad. You reap what you sow. yada yada Whatever.

It's actually kind of an interesting saga - with the kidnapped Japanese wife and all. But in the end, it boils down to the fact that...he pissed away his life and I really don't care what happens to him next. Be free, be happy, be gone.
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 11:38 Comments || Top||

#2  Well, I agree that he has paid mightily for his choices, but I don't think we need to forgive and forget. Better that the he go his way and we go ours. Put him back on a plane and never let him on US soil again.
Posted by: BH || 06/21/2005 12:08 Comments || Top||

“I let my soldiers down. I let the US Army down. I let the government down, and I made it very difficult for my family in the US to live,” Jenkins said
Well, hell, he just lost the sympathy the leftists and the MSM (but I repeat myself) had for him.

Expect to hear nothing more about him; he doesn't fit their agenda.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 06/21/2005 12:25 Comments || Top||

#4  yeah, alright.. I'm ok with that too. Send him to maroon island, cause he's a maroon.
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 12:26 Comments || Top||

#5  Right you are, Barbara. If he just kissed all those Hollywood royalties goodbye.

how do you spell L O S E R?
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 12:28 Comments || Top||

#6  oops...no "if"
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 12:28 Comments || Top||

#7  cf: "The Man without a Country" __Stephen Vincent Benet
Posted by: Thritch Spomons4635 || 06/21/2005 14:13 Comments || Top||

#8  BH: Well, I agree that he has paid mightily for his choices, but I don't think we need to forgive and forget. Better that the he go his way and we go ours. Put him back on a plane and never let him on US soil again.

Article: “I let my soldiers down. I let the US Army down. I let the government down, and I made it very difficult for my family in the US to live,” Jenkins said.

He apologized without reservations, unlike Senator Turban. He was a footsoldier in a war fought in extremely harsh conditiions, a cog in a machine, unlike Senator Turban. I can forgive Jenkins. I will never forgive Senator Turban.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/21/2005 14:37 Comments || Top||

#9  zf is right! Unlike Jane Fonda, they communist sympathizing feminist who put on a bikini to sell exercise video's to help make women sexy for their men, and unlike Alec Fatwindbag and Madoutofline Halfbright and all of the other liberals who touted the wonders of a progressive utopia, this guy at least lived it and was willing to denouce it for the sham that it was.

Millions will starve in NOKOR this year. The Fonda's, the Amnasties and the progressive liberals will be too busy denoucing George Bush's overthrow of a raping tyrant to notice.

I'll take this guy over any one of those blind belivers. In fact, I'll take him over the lot of them. Seems like more than a fair trade to me!
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 15:20 Comments || Top||

#10  Hear, Hear ZF.
Just let him go. His life was over 40 years back. Just hope he maintains that shred of decency that keeps him from a book. I expect his Japaneese inlaws will be helpful in that regard.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/21/2005 16:18 Comments || Top||

walked into North Korea on July 5, 1965
What war, ZF?

Korea was partitioned in the early 1950's.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 06/21/2005 16:26 Comments || Top||

#12  Dumbass, we should use him as the poster boy for all the exciting times you can have in North Korea!

Hoorah, pack your speedos! Lets all go to Kimmy's playground. I hear he has a mobile waterpark that the commies drag around korea for his watersliding pleasure.
Posted by: Mountain Man || 06/21/2005 16:32 Comments || Top||

#13  BS: walked into North Korea on July 5, 1965

What war, ZF?

Korea was partitioned in the early 1950's.

Thanks for the correction - I hadn't followed this story closely. I thought that he defected during the Korean War, which really was brutal for the GI's who participated, because of the Korean winters. It appears he defected to avoid Vietnam. But whether Vietnam or Korea - the fact is that Jenkins ran to avoid service and acknowledged not simply that he had made a mistake from a PR standpoint, but that what he did was wrong. Most leftists, like Senator Turban, feel that their treasonous behavior is not only not wrong - it is an expression of *patriotism*. (Somewhere in the background is a revulsion against risking their lives in a military callup that is so great, they would sell their mothers to get out of it, let alone betray their country).
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/21/2005 17:13 Comments || Top||

#14  when I flush a toilet, I don't want it back. I don't want Jenkins back
Posted by: Frank G || 06/21/2005 17:36 Comments || Top||

#15  Jenkins went to North Korea in 1965? It has been awhile, but I seem to recall the place was foo'ed up already back then.

As for Kim Jong Il, I just watched Team America: World Police. Now the mere mention of Kimmie causes uncontrollable snickering. "I'm so ronery..."
Posted by: SteveS || 06/21/2005 20:20 Comments || Top||

#16  I live in NC and read the News and Observer article--he has childhood friends here that are glad to see him and also there is a large number of ex-military men who don't know him that resent his return. Apparently he was from a lower class family and wasn't treated well by the ROTC elite in his hometown. NO opinion--just relaying what I read--so don't pile on for this post
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 06/21/2005 23:22 Comments || Top||

N. Korean Delegation Angered by Protests
EFL: I must check KCNA this week. This could lead to some classic stuff.
SEOUL, South Korea - A high-level delegation from North Korea arrived in Seoul for bilateral talks Tuesday and was immediately confronted by demonstrators who angered the visitors by displaying posters of their leader, Kim Jong Il, tied up in ropes.
Kim Jong Il Poster Abuse. Wait'll the media get's wind of that.
The North Korean delegates complained after their motorcade encountered the protesters on a road near the airport as they headed to a hotel for talks with the South Korean government, South Korea's YTN television reported. The protesters said they were in vehicles plastered with posters calling for Kim to be punished. In the North, Kim is the object of an official personality cult along with his father, founding ruler Kim Il Sung, and strict rules govern how their images are treated.
Well, too bad. You ain't in the North.
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/21/2005 11:12 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Please remember these simple anal retentive rules when dealing with your Kim Jong Il photos:

Tips for disposing of 'Our Dear Leader's' photo
In Pyongyang, the rules are very specific about how physically to handle the Kim image.
No one is permitted to point casually at a portrait of Kim Jong Il or his father, Kim Il Sung, the founder of North Korea. If you find yourself holding a book with a picture of a Kim on the cover, you'd best carry it with two hands, face up, in a dignified manner. And no thumb or fingers are ever allowed to touch or cover Kim's face.
The image and name of the Kims are deeply ingrained as the sacred goods of North Korea, and a special etiquette has evolved in dealing with them. Rules exist for handling, carrying, hanging, and even disposing of Kim faces and portraits. There are also rituals for their printed names.
No portrait of Dear Leader or Great Leader is to be folded. No newspaper issued on the birthday of Kim Jong Il or his father, when the photo is likely to be a full page, should be covered or used to wrap anything. Once a newspaper with a major photo of Kim is old or worn out, it may not be tossed out, but must be brought to a special collection point where the image is properly discarded.
A few years ago, prior to a special festival attended by many foreigners, a special 100-note currency was issued, using the Kim Il Sung face. But it was quickly withdrawn from circulation after it was discovered that foreigners were casually folding the bills and putting them in wallets placed next to the derrière.
In writing about Kim, the name or character may not be casually deleted. In fact, the editing of journals and books mostly still takes place on paper. Journalists and writers must not remove Kim's name from a sentence by crossing it out. Instead, The name must be circled, and only then removed.
And in published material, direct quotes by Kim or his father should always appear in a manner similar to how many Bible publishers treat the words of New Testament figures - in bold or illuminated type.
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/21/2005 11:41 Comments || Top||

#2  sometimes I have to wonder about human nature. Why is it, that this one man can affect millions? Millions will starve. Yet we all stand back and laugh about his platform shoes.

Millions against one, poor, pathetic, hurt and lonely little boy. Millions suffer. How can that be. *sigh*

I don't understand. I mean, how much does a bullet cost anyway? 10 cents?

I just don't understand.
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 11:47 Comments || Top||

#3  Well, too bad. You ain't in the North.


BTW, what's Senator's Biden's exit timetable for withdrawing our troops from South Korea? Quicker, quicker.
Posted by: Snolunter Elmineger5424 || 06/21/2005 11:47 Comments || Top||

#4  I love it! Kim's buddies aren't used to "free expression" when it's direct against them. They are used to everybody showing the nothing but love and compassion. Good work demonstrators, it will open some cracks in that thin skin of the Norks.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 06/21/2005 12:17 Comments || Top||

#5  tu3031 @ 1:

That was parody, right?
Posted by: Xbalanke || 06/21/2005 13:38 Comments || Top||

#6  According to the Christian Science Monitor, it is NOT parody.

Posted by: tu3031 || 06/21/2005 13:44 Comments || Top||

#7  I guess they won't accept my offer to watch "Team America", then.

Bummer. Bought extra popcorn. Heard they were hungry......
Posted by: Desert Blondie || 06/21/2005 14:37 Comments || Top||

#8  Anyone know where we can get these posters?

How about Kim-Jong toilet paper?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 06/21/2005 15:04 Comments || Top||

#9  Hell! This is even bigger than the sacred 'K'q'ur'an stories.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/21/2005 16:20 Comments || Top||

#10  And Kim Jong Il gingerbread men must not be eaten, these soldiers of our fearless leader must be well fed and quartered with only the most patriotic Korean workers until our great and fearless leader calls upon us all to embrace the fallout of heavenly nuclear radiation that will empower the gingerbread men with super hero strength and we will all follow the orders of our fearless gingerbread commanders and march against the Enemies of the DPRK.

Posted by: Mountain Man || 06/21/2005 16:49 Comments || Top||

#11  CF - re: Kimmie toilet paper.

Only if he uses it.

I'm not defiling my ass that way.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 06/21/2005 17:17 Comments || Top||

Down Under
Wood raid report a furphy
Senior government and defence sources have directly contradicted weekend reports by journalist Paul McGeough, who claimed that Australian raids on the home of Sheik Hassan Zadaan had delayed the effort to free Mr Wood from his captors. The sources also confirmed that raids by Australian and US forces on Sheik Zadaan and a number of other targets in Iraq during the Australian engineer's 47-day ordeal made "no difference" to Mr Wood's fate. The inflated claims of the high-profile Fairfax journalist about supposed intermediaries are coming under sharper focus in the wake of Mr Wood's dramatic rescue last week.

It now appears that claims the raid that freed Mr Wood had damaged the rescue hopes for two other Iraqis are also unfounded, as the men were killed several weeks ago. It is the second time the reporter has been accused of inaccuracy after senior Bush administration officials discredited a story in July last year in which he claimed the new Iraqi Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi, had pulled a pistol and executed up to six suspected insurgents at a Baghdad police station just days before Washington handed over control to his interim government.

Sheik Zadaan and some of his associates were the target of a raid in early May by coalition forces including Australian special forces troops. At the time, Sheik Zadaan had told the reporter in Baghdad he had begun negotiating with Mr Wood's captors and would rescue him. However, according to senior government and defence sources, Sheik Zadaan and his associates were detained, interrogated and released after it was established he knew nothing about the Wood case. "We know a lot about Sheik Zadaan but he had no idea where Wood was," one source said.

Government sources have also rejected claims by a senior Australian Muslim cleric, Sheik Taj al-Din al-Hilaly, that last week's raid, which freed Wood, "had almost certainly cost the lives" of two Iraqis taken hostage with him. In fact, the two men, Faris Sahkir and Adel Farhawy Najm, were found dead in Baghdad a month ago. The pair, who were associated with Mr Wood's business activities in Iraq, were identified by their families and buried last week. Both men had been tortured and later killed by the group that kidnapped Mr Wood.

While senior ministers have praised Sheik Hilali's efforts to secure Mr Wood's freedom, there is no evidence he played any role in the Iraqi army raid that rescued him. "It's not true that there was any direct connection between his activities and Wood's release," observed one government source. According to the head of Australia's emergency response team, Nick Warner, Mr Wood was most likely held by a Sunni criminal gang who had had previous involvement in kidnappings.

Mr Wood was held in two locations in Baghdad, spending 37 days in the house where he was finally found. Throughout his captivity coalition military forces, including Australians, mounted numerous surveillance missions around the Iraqi capital in an effort to locate Mr Wood. The raid on Sheik Zadaan would have resulted from intelligence provided by the US-led coalition forces in Baghdad. Shiek Zadaan is believed to have had links to some Sunni insurgents wanted by the coalition. "There were reasons to believe these guys were up to no good," one source told The Australian. "The actual raid (on Zadaan) made no difference whatsoever to Wood's fate."

On Monday, the Prime Minister firmly rejected claims the emergency response team had bundled an attempt to rescue Mr Wood days after he was kidnapped. Mr Howard was referring to reports in Fairfax newspapers that the raid on Shiek Zadaan had botched an earlier attempt to secure Mr Wood's freedom.
Posted by: Steve || 06/21/2005 15:54 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10795 views] Top|| File under:

#1  You must admit however, that in theory, it could have been true. Thus since it could have been true it should be true somewhere. Here for instance.
Posted by: Shroedingers Editor || 06/21/2005 16:23 Comments || Top||

#2  While senior ministers have praised Sheik Hilali's efforts to secure Mr Wood's freedom, Not true. They have said that Hilali played an undefined role. Its pretty clear that role was inadvertent by him and he carried or passed on somekind of transmitter, perhaps a locatable mobile phone. (I realize all mobile phones are locatable to a degree, but in this case the person carrying it was known.)
Posted by: phil_b || 06/21/2005 17:16 Comments || Top||

#3  They have said that Hilali played an undefined role.

An "undefined role" includes the roles of "roadblock", "gadfly", "nuisance", and "troublemaker".
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 06/21/2005 22:04 Comments || Top||

Australia hints at new Afghanistan forces
DEFENCE Minister Robert Hill today gave a strong indication Australia was considering boosting its troop commitment to troubled Afghanistan. Senator Hill said Australia's armed forces had more flexibility to contribute to Afghanistan now other commitments were easing. Australia has just one soldier in Afghanistan helping clear land mines. At the peak of fighting following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States, 150 Australian Special Air Service Regiment soldiers served in Afghanistan, playing a key role in operations against al-Qaeda and Taliban remnants. All were home by December 2002.

Senator Hill said today Afghanistan's gains since a multinational force ousted the Taliban regime in 2001 needed more consolidation and other Western countries were making a contribution. Senator Hill said the tempo of Australia's overseas troop rotation had been high and was still high. "But we have been able to reduce our force size substantially in the Solomon Islands," he said. "We've now completed the peace-keeping mission in East Timor. In some ways there's a little more flexibility now than there was a year or two ago."

Senator Hill said the Federal Government had been focusing on Iraq and Australia still had a key commitment there, recently increased in the Al Muthanna province. "We need to weigh up all these factors," he said. "What's been achieved in Afghanistan is tremendous but it needs to be consolidated."
Posted by: Spavirt Pheng6042 || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10793 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Thanks, guys. There are two countries I trust.
Posted by: Jackal || 06/21/2005 9:00 Comments || Top||

Wood: I won't go back to Iraq
FREED hostage Douglas Wood has bowed to family pressure and agreed never to return to Iraq, where he was captured and held hostage for 47 days. A spokesman for the Wood family said today that the engineer "will not, under any circumstances, return to Iraq". He had made the decision on the advice of his family, the spokesman said.

The 63-year-old engineer, discovered and rescued in a raid by Iraqi troops last week, "lost commercial opportunities during his incarceration", the spokesman said. Mr Wood shocked family members who were sitting by his side at a press conference yesterday, when he did not immediately rule out a return because "business opportunities" remained in Baghdad. He said his family had spent his first 30 minutes in Australia attempting to talk him out of going back. During the same press conference, Mr Wood said: "One would be more prudent, more security conscious, the second time."

Psychologists have said it will likely take years for Mr Wood to get over the trauma of his captivity. Last night the Green Party called on Mr Wood to consider repaying taxpayers for his rescue mission from proceeds of the sale of his story to Channel 10.
That's one of the most remarkably tactless and shoddy suggestions I've ever heard coming from professional politicians. Fair takes your breath away, doesn't it?

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Spavirt Pheng6042 || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Rudd & Brown
Can you imagine these two f*cktards asking the ozzy mulla asshat for a refund.
I try not to use the word ilk, as moonbats use it regularly, but cretains like Rudd & Brown deserve it.

God bless the Iraqi & American soldiers, Doug Wood and family.

Posted by: Red Dog || 06/21/2005 2:51 Comments || Top||

#2  Gee...the Greens sound like our Democrates. Both sets of polititians should be killed. Or sent to Iran to never come back. The results would be the same at the end of the day.
Posted by: mmurray821 || 06/21/2005 4:27 Comments || Top||

#3  Great idea, MMurray. I truly wonder if Mr. Wood would go back if given free choice in the matter. I understand his family's side of the argument, but he should be free to choose, exempt from gov't interference in the whole matter.
Posted by: BA || 06/21/2005 9:24 Comments || Top||

Luxembourg to push ahead with EU vote
Luxembourg will go ahead with its referendum on the EU constitution next month, despite a decision by European leaders to pause the ratification process. Lawmakers from the tiny EU state Monday agreed that the July 10 vote should take place as planned, just weeks after the French and Dutch electorates rejected the rulebook for an enlarged Europe. Polls show the "yes" vote of 46 percent and the "no" camp at 38 percent -- a rise of 6 percentage points in a month.
The "no" camp is gaining, I think they want a quick vote before "no" gets any bigger
Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker, who is chairman of the EU, has pledged to resign if the traditionally pro-European country rejects the constitution. In a separate poll for the Helsingin Sanomat newspaper, half of Finns said they would vote against the treaty if given the chance, with one-third in favor of the controversial text.
Posted by: Steve || 06/21/2005 09:36 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10795 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Section 937A(2): We will find a way to screw the Finns.
Posted by: mojo || 06/21/2005 9:59 Comments || Top||

#2  flogging a dead horse
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 10:22 Comments || Top||

#3  This reminds me of the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.
Posted by: mmurray821 || 06/21/2005 10:42 Comments || Top||

#4  BINGO, mmurray821!

That sums up the EUrocrats perfectly. ;-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 06/21/2005 12:29 Comments || Top||

#5  As Luxembourg goes, so goes...um...San Marino?
Posted by: Dreadnought || 06/21/2005 12:42 Comments || Top||

#6  Well, the vote could influence Liechtenstein, Andorra, and Monaco. I'm not sure if Vatican City gets to vote.
Posted by: Matt || 06/21/2005 12:44 Comments || Top||

#7  Liechtenstein ist not an EU member at all (using Swiss Francs), technically Andorra, Monaco and Vaticanm ain't either but they use the Euro and have a custom's union with the EU
Posted by: True German Ally || 06/21/2005 13:17 Comments || Top||

#8  Same goes for San Marino
Posted by: True German Ally || 06/21/2005 13:17 Comments || Top||

#9  Custom's Union! What a concept!

Posted by: Shroedingers Editor || 06/21/2005 16:25 Comments || Top||

#10  Didn't you forget Malta?
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 06/21/2005 23:26 Comments || Top||

Home Front: WoT
Federal Agency Collected Extensive Personal Data About Airline Passengers Despite Pledge
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A federal agency collected extensive personal information about airline passengers although Congress told it not to and it said it wouldn't, according to documents obtained Monday by The Associated Press.
Gee, that sounds like the BATF and gun sales records
A Transportation Security Administration contractor used three data brokers to collect detailed information about U.S. citizens who flew on commercial airlines in June 2004 in order to test a terrorist screening program called Secure Flight, according to documents that will be published in the Federal Register this week.
The TSA had ordered the airlines to turn over data on those passengers, called passenger name records, in November. The contractor, EagleForce Associates, then combined the passenger name records with commercial data from three contractors that included first, last and middle names, home address and phone number, birthdate, name suffix, second surname, spouse first name, gender, second address, third address, ZIP code and latitude and longitude of address. EagleForce then produced CD-ROMS containing the information "and provided those CD-ROMS to TSA for use in watch list match testing," the documents said.
According to previous official notices, TSA had said it would not store commercial data about airline passengers. The Privacy Act of 1974 prohibits the government from keeping a secret database. "I'm just floored," said Tim Sparapani, a privacy lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union. "This is like creating an FBI file, not just some simple check, and then they're storing the data."
TSA spokesman Mark Hatfield said the program was being developed with a commitment to privacy, and that it was routine to change the official definition of a system of records during a test phase.
I guess it all depends on what your definition of "store" is. Wonder where I've heard that before?
Posted by: Steve || 06/21/2005 09:26 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

#1  God help us if they ever link to our credit files :)
Posted by: Snolunter Elmineger5424 || 06/21/2005 12:35 Comments || Top||

#2  Too late
Posted by: Mountain Man || 06/21/2005 16:12 Comments || Top||

#3  Federal Agency Collected Extensive Personal Data About Airline Passengers Despite Pledge
Gee, that sounds like the BATF and gun sales records
God help us if they ever link to our credit files

Sigh... now where did I put that tinfoil helmet liner?

(with a suitably naiif tone of voice) Well, I'm not worried...I dont do anything wrong.
Posted by: N guard || 06/21/2005 16:59 Comments || Top||

Rice makes vibrant appeal for democracy in Middle East
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10795 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Did she use tac nukes?
Posted by: gromgoru || 06/21/2005 7:54 Comments || Top||

#2  When I saw "vibrant" in the title along with Rice's name, I figured the press was commenting more on her wardrobe than her speech. Glad to see I was wrong.
Posted by: Dar || 06/21/2005 14:13 Comments || Top||

#3  Be careful what you wish for, Condi. I'm sure Hezbollah and Hamas and the Islamic Brotherhood would love to see democratic elections take place across the board in the Middle East.
Posted by: Thotch Glesing2372 || 06/21/2005 15:02 Comments || Top||

#4  And should Hezbollah and Hamas and the Islamic Brotherhood win those elections, what would be the effective difference compared to the situation now?
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/21/2005 18:30 Comments || Top||

#5  tw, you can't be serious. Mubarekk, the King of Jordan, the Saudi Princes, even old weasel neck himself in Syria - corrupt and self-serving as they are - are a heck of a lot more West friendly than the aforementioned alternatives and the masses who would support them if the tyrants and their military were "voted out." Iraq at this stage is still at an experimental level re: whether or not democracy is a good fit for Muslims. I'd say the verdict is out at this point, wouldn't you? A benign strongman or a Pro West oligarchy can be useful for keeping burgeoning uneducated sectarian populations under control so they don't do harm to themselves or to others.
Posted by: Thotch Glesing2372 || 06/21/2005 19:01 Comments || Top||

#6  I got a big hole in Manhattan that says you're wrong about the Saudis, TG.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 06/21/2005 19:02 Comments || Top||

#7  There was a movie, once upon a time about 1980, called Brubaker. The essence of the movie was the struggle between pragmatism and principle. I belabored an opinion on this in a rant here on the 'burg, just recently - so I won't repeat it all, again.

My ex-wifey and I argued about Brubaker for years. Guess which side we each took? Lol. Enough with the State Dept-style future apology BS. Let's do it right. One set of rules, just what that Constitution thingy talks about, play it straight, win or lose. That's what America should be all about, nothing more, nothing less. It's worth dying for. The other, isn't.
Posted by: .com || 06/21/2005 19:10 Comments || Top||

#8  The Saudis are playing both sides to stay in power -they're no saints obviously - but I contend they are far more pro West than if we let the Saudi masses have a democracy. Then we'd have a duely elected radical pro-OBL gov't in power. The House of Saud did not order 9/11.

For another thing, the Saudi princes could have put a screetching halt to the USA's war efforts and propelled our economy into rapid de-aceleration if they chose to do so, simply by closing off the spigot to US oil company interests. Instead the House of Saud has been fairly co-operative behind the scenes by keeping OPEC on a straight and narrow "neutral" path. I think a democracy in Saudi Arabia could be very very bad for the USA. That's why President after President have made the House of Saud an exception to the rule when there's US criticism about political events in the ME.
Posted by: Thotch Glesing2372 || 06/21/2005 19:35 Comments || Top||

#9  TG - There's this narrow strip of land...

It's ancient history around here that the Saudis ain't our buds. They serve themselves. They have been at war with the US since 1973. A low-grade slow-burn financial and diplomatic sabotage some might call it, if you're silly enough to think of them as allies, lol - wotta load! I call it war.

The Special Relationship hit the skids with Bush - or haven't you paid attention? I don't have 20 links to offer regards our investigation of the Saudi Embassy financial records, etc, but you're out in left field here - with the State Dept's seditionists. Are you really Mikey S in disguise?

RB didn't begin when you showed up. This is a common misconception among certain visitors. In your best Garret Morris News for the Hearing Impaired:

One is worth DYING for. The OTHER, isn't.

Clear enough for you? Oh, and thank you ooooooh so much for the equivocation, accommodation, and State Dept Wank-o-Matic Retirement Fund refresher sentiments. I'm sure it's appreciated - somewhere - I'm guessing Foggy Bottom, but I could be wrong.
Posted by: .com || 06/21/2005 20:00 Comments || Top||

#10  If we had a duly elected pro-OBL government in Arabia then we could squish it like the Taliban.

The Sauds did not order the hit on the WTC, but they paid for it and they are p[aying for the madrassas in Pakland and Arlington that are raising the jihadis of tomorrow.

Notice this President doesn't make exceptions for criticizing the Sauds. Democracy would not be bad in Arabia. It would be the start of the Arabs growing up. Their choice how it goes. Right now Arabs kill Americans but nothing happens to them. Time to turn that around.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 06/21/2005 20:27 Comments || Top||

#11  Here's a handy bit - see #3, Dave D's 8 Options. Thanks to Dubya, we're trying on #4, you see, and it won't work worth warm spit if we don't mean WTF we say. In a number of ways, ol' Dubya, that bible-totin' IdiotChimpHitler guy, is trying, some might say desperately, to save them from themselves. I've always had rather bad luck with that approach, myself - as a solo, but perhaps, as a policy of national will from the US, it can work. I'm willing to give it a try - and support him in the effort - I can live very well with that, in fact. It's a certainty that it won't work, if undermined by becoming what we hate and revile in others: duplicitous, back-stabbing, lying, double-dealing whores.
Posted by: .com || 06/21/2005 20:29 Comments || Top||

#12  Mrs D - Overlapped with you - good clean concise points, kudos.
Posted by: .com || 06/21/2005 20:31 Comments || Top||

#13  Thanks and thanks for your perspective. I'm glad you got to know them up close and personal so I wouldn't have to.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 06/21/2005 20:41 Comments || Top||

#14  Aw shit, there goes dinner, lol! ;-)
Posted by: .com || 06/21/2005 20:43 Comments || Top||

#15  If we had a duly elected pro-OBL government in Arabia then we could squish it like the Taliban
Ummm, right, the Taliban sure are squished. What we have in Afghanistan is a tenuous situation not any resounding squishing by any means and this situation could have/still can become very unstable very quickly were it not for our much maligned "soft" allies with troops there and but for the co-operation of a certain military strongman, named Musharref, who lets us make incursions into Pakland territory and air space and but for the neutrality of many nasty Afghan warlords with whom we've had to play footsie and whose "agricultural"crops we must pretend do not exist.

As for squishing a pro-OBL Saudi Arabian elected gov't - sorry I can't get on board with your rose colored easy victory - for one thing, we'd fly our airplanes and drive our tanks on what - peanut butter - to deliver big squishing of S.A.?

GWB has been fairly careful about not treading on Saudi princes toes. If GWB was so much firmer than previous Presidents,as you claim, then he would have done regime change of the House of Saud instead of powering US jets and tanks with Saudi fuel to remove Saddam. Also only close friends of GWB - like the Saudi royalty on numerous occasions - get invited to his Crawford ranch. Sorry not much spanking of the Sods that I see by this Admin. and that's perfectly fine by me.
Posted by: Thotch Glesing2372 || 06/21/2005 21:09 Comments || Top||

#16  Wooo, I'm dizzy!

TG - First you propose sleazy arrangements ("corrupt and self-serving as they are - are a heck of a lot more West friendly") then you decry them ("a certain military strongman, named Musharref"). As for the Taleban - geez luise - you're such a stickler - wanna put up of shut up? I offer the Afghani elections as proof you're full of shit. You got, what?, "insurgency" (known by straight-talking folks as terrorists) play footsie in the lawless border regions? That's it?

You speak like a true trooper of the State Dept - duplicitious: GWB does shit never done before (which you don't like, given your accomodation arguments) - yet he's done little or nothing to oppose Saudi duplicity? Sheesh. Wotta load.

Regards the military aspects of that 40km strip of land, you obviously have ZERO military knowledge or understanding. There are many ways to approach it - especially with Iraq, Bahrain, Qatar rather conveniently located nearby with lots 'n lots of troop and materiel movement occurring on a regular basis through the mud puddle known as the Persian Gulf.

You're info and wisdom challenged in many important ways, sonny.
Posted by: .com || 06/21/2005 21:23 Comments || Top||

#17  TG,

Took me a while to recover from the effects of the thought of our personnel in Afghanistan being protected by our soft allies.

Here's what Condi had to say to the Arab world about the Saud's country while in Cairo

"In Saudi Arabia, brave citizens are demanding accountable government. And some good first steps toward openness have been taken with recent municipal elections. Yet many people pay an unfair price for exercising their basic rights. Three individuals in particular are currently imprisoned for peacefully petitioning their government. That should not be a crime in any country."

Not quite how .com or I would put it, but I think this counts as treading on toes.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 06/21/2005 21:30 Comments || Top||

#18  GWB does shit never done before (which you don't like, given your accomodation arguments) - yet he's done little or nothing to oppose Saudi duplicity? Sheesh. Wotta load.
Let me draw your attention to fuzzy wuzzy not very sh*t disturbing comments made by Crown Prince Abdullah and President George W. Bush in the joint statement released from Crawford, Texas 4/25/05:
Today, we renewed our personal friendship and that between our nations. Our friendship begins with the recognition that our nations have proud and very distinct histories.The United States respects Saudi Arabia as the birthplace of Islam, one of the world's great religions, and as the symbolic center of the Islamic faith as custodian of Islam's two holy places in Makkah and Madinah.
Saudi Arabia reiterates its call on all those who teach and propagate the Islamic faith to adhere strictly to the Islamic message of peace, moderation, and tolerance; and reject that which deviates from those principles.Both countries agree that this message of peace, moderation, and tolerance must extend to those of all faiths and practices. The two nations reaffirm the principles agreed to during the international conference on counter-terrorism hosted by the Kingdom in February 2005. These principles were enshrined in the "Riyadh Declaration" which calls for "fostering values of understanding, tolerance, dialogue, co-existence, and the rapprochement between cultures …… [and] for fighting any form of thinking that promotes hatred, incites violence, and condones terrorist crimes”. While the United States considers that nations will create institutions that reflect the history, culture, and traditions of their societies, it does not seek to impose its own style of government on the government and people of Saudi Arabia. The United States applauds the recently held elections in the Kingdom for representatives to municipal councils and looks for even wider participation in accordance with the Kingdom's reform program.The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United States are close partners in many important endeavors. We welcome the renewed determination of Saudi Arabia to pursue economic reform and its quest to join the World Trade Organization (WTO). We will work together as partners to complete our negotiations and with other WTO members in Geneva with the aim of welcoming Saudi Arabia into the WTO before the end of 2005.Both nations pledge to continue their cooperation so that the oil supply from Saudi Arabia will be available and secure. The United States appreciates Saudi Arabia's strong commitment to accelerating investment and expanding its production capacity to help provide stability and adequately supply the market.
Blah, blah, blah

As for Afghanistan, their elections mean exactly what - that Afghans took time away from tending their poppy fields or doing their honor killings to vote for that famous statesman, Karzari, whose favorite line whenever he's near a microphone is don't forget to give Afghanistan as much American tax dollars as you're giving to Iraq. I'm glad that Afghanistan is no longer an AQ training camp, but you've got to be smoking some powerful weed to think that Afghanistan is a raging democracy success story and that we have squished the bad guys to death. They're hiding in the hills in the Afghan/Pakland border where they can't do too much harm. If we did not have the help of that tyrant, Musharref, we would have accomplished squat. We'll never get in the faces of Afghan warlords, because our coalition forces would be overwhelmed and none of the "freed" Afghans would blink an eye - well maybe Karazani would because he'd be losing his gravy train. Why do you think we have US military body guards watching out for Mushareff's life around the clock - because he's allowing us to keep the lid on Afghanistan with a small number of troops.

I'm a pragmatist, not an appeasor. And holding an election does not a functioning democracy make so save your rah rah. I like to deal with reality.
Posted by: Thotch Glesing2372 || 06/21/2005 22:17 Comments || Top||

#19  huh?
Posted by: muck4doo || 06/21/2005 22:34 Comments || Top||

#20  rex? SayDoom!? IToldYouSo? Cloon? 'zat you?

So many. Sigh.

You mistake diplo-speak for policy - look at the actual actions. Blah, blah, blah is right. If you weren't a disingenuous straw-man specialist, you would've posted the link, instead of quoting the thing. The size of your post does not impress anyone, being fluffed up as it is with the massive quote. Not that I have anything against good fluffers, mind you,

Everyone on Afghanistan grows poppies. Okaaaay.

You Want What You Want When You Want It. Anything else is worthy of your scorn, nobody knows what you do, you have the answers, and just coincidentally, GWB is the villian. Riiight. Gotcha. Yeah, you're a pragmatist, alright, you'll vote for what, for whom? Nobody's perfect, except you. Cool. BDS.

There's a great old Mr Tibbs movie on. Seen it before, but hey, I've heard your shopworn shit, too. Yawn & G'nite, wanker.
Posted by: .com || 06/21/2005 22:36 Comments || Top||

#21  GWB is the villian. Riiight
No as a matter of fact GWB is doing what he should do with despots, tyrants who help us. But what you and Mrs. Davis suggest is naive and dangerous.
Posted by: Thotch Glesing2372 || 06/21/2005 23:07 Comments || Top||

#22  TG - You're schizophrenic. You say:

"GWB is doing what he should with depots, tyrants who help us."

Then you say:

"But what you and Mrs. Davis suggest is naive and dangerous."

Duh, son - this is what GWB is saying, not just us - or didn't you actually read what Dr Rice said? I did. I even got to see video excerpts of it - and there was no mistaking the message to the asshats of the world. BTW, this story ran yesterday - unfortunately, I was the only one to comment on it, but at least I'm consistent.

You're not. I've pointed out some examples, I'm sure there are more. Your attitude is, indeed, that of the State Dept: We know best.

I submit that you do not. We have paid dearly, many times over for supporting tyrants and despots. It's just fucking wrong. We should be and do precisely what we claim to believe in. You're glaringly wrong about this. We can be right and do what needs to be done - both. Yeah, it's harder, but it's not something the next or the next or the next Pres in the Big Chair has to apologize for. Time to do it right, just as it's always been. Just because it hasn't been done in a long long time doesn't make me wrong. It makes US wrong for taking so long to get back on track.
Posted by: .com || 06/21/2005 23:57 Comments || Top||

#23  Mrs Davis drank the GOP Kool-Aid if she really believes Kinda Sleezy Rice smacked the Saudis. She wouldn't dare-too many flights from Texas to Jeddah would be cancelled
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 06/22/2005 0:00 Comments || Top||

Arab-American Agent Sues FBI for Not Being Promoted
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10793 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Watson couldn’t describe the difference between Shiites and Sunnis, the two major groups of Muslims. “Not technically, no,” Watson answered when asked the question.

Very simple, agent Watson.
The former believe in killing Jews, or anybody who disaggrees with them.
The later believe that Jews, or anybody who disaggrees with them, must be killed.

Posted by: gromgoru || 06/21/2005 8:06 Comments || Top||

#2  If this guy was truly legit, I'd agree with his case. However, we know of stories in the past of moose limbs working for the FBI that refused to interrogate or investigate fellow moose limbs after 9/11. Reading the article, it sounds legit in my mind, but again it's on arabnews.com.
Posted by: BA || 06/21/2005 9:28 Comments || Top||

#3  Gee, expecting a counterterrorism agent to actually have knowlegde of the terrorists...what a novel idea...yes, I guess it would be nice.
Posted by: jawa || 06/21/2005 10:47 Comments || Top||

#4  BA,

Normally I would be right with you, but this guy doesn't appear to be saying that he was passed over because of his ethnicity. He's telling us that the promotion process in the FBI is based on something other than competence in your field.

I think we all know that something isn't right in the FBI, hasn't been right in sometime, and it doesn't appear that anything is being done about it. I believe we are beginning to see the true impact of not firing anyone after 9/11.
Posted by: Dreadnought || 06/21/2005 12:46 Comments || Top||

#5  Very true, dread. However, I do take news from that source with a grain of salt. But, I'm sure if it was truly over his ethnicity, arabnews would've made a big deal about it. You're right though, something's amiss in the FBI and it isn't right that experience leads to promotions. I'd especially think we'd want MORE experience/ethnicities in that arena to infiltrate the jihadis among us.
Posted by: BA || 06/21/2005 13:18 Comments || Top||

#6  Just do a google news search - this story is gaining traction stateside. I think this guy's case has merit based on the other articles I read. It points to the FBI culture of "the good old boys network" being alive and well. Some of the reponses of FBI leadership, under oath, as they answer questions posed by the FBI Muslim agent show how useless the FBI leadership is. It's the same old same old, well, the 9/11 attack was like any other crime scene, we gather evidence, blah, blah. One guy- Bald ( spelling ?)-actually implied that all you need is leadership expertise ( look at my spanking new MBA everybody) to penetrate the network of extremist Muslims but knowledge of the Muslim culture or Arab languages, well, it would be nice (???) but not essential to conducting a good "police investigation" ( police investigation is my summation of what this idiot thinks is the answer to tracking down terrorists in this country).

Posted by: Thotch Glesing2372 || 06/21/2005 14:22 Comments || Top||

#7  Arabic is hard!
Posted by: FBI Barbie || 06/21/2005 17:40 Comments || Top||

Russia, China Join Against US 'Star Wars'
Sorry, Folks. Previous story had a one comment that broke our sites formatting. Had to dump the whole lot and repost without your insightful commentary. Please, no collection of links and photos in comments
Links and photos, formatted incorrectly, can hose the site quicker than anything. Please respect that.
Russia and China have joined forces in a major U.N. forum to oppose U.S. plans to develop new space weapons. And the move could herald a far more wide-ranging strategic cooperation between the two nations.
Russia and China have joined forces to urge the U.N. Conference on Disarmament to launch a new round of international negotiations to prevent the increased militarization of space. On June 9, the two countries issued a joint working paper calling for the reactivation of the moribund Committee on Prevention of an Arms Race in Outer Space that was discontinued in 1994. The appeal was delivered to the Disarmament Conference in Geneva.

Hu Xiaodi, China's veteran top negotiator, and one of its most influential policymakers on space weapons systems, told the conference, "The recent developments concerning outer space are worrisome and require more urgent efforts to start work on preventing an arms race in outer space... China and Russia stand for the negotiation, at the Disarmament Conference, of an international legal instrument prohibiting the deployment of weapons in outer space and use of force against outer space objects." Analyst Sergei Blatov writing for the Eurasia Daily Monitor of the Washington-based Jamestown Foundation called the Sino-Russian initiative "an apparent strategic partnership" and added that it was "understood to be anti-Washington, due to known joint Russo-Chinese opposition to the planned U.S. National Missile Defense (NMD) program."

The initiative is not likely to get anywhere.

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve || 06/21/2005 10:40 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Probably better to delete this article altogether, since without the commentary posted earlier, this article is basically misleading garbage that will go unanswered.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/21/2005 11:24 Comments || Top||

#2  "nobody can beat droidekas!"
Posted by: liberalhawk || 06/21/2005 11:32 Comments || Top||

The Emerging Nuclear Powers
June 21, 2005: There are emerging and nascent nuclear powers in the world. This is how it has been since 1945, when the Soviet Union stole the secrets to the atomic bomb to gain parity with the United States. For the past sixty years, countries have schemed and scrambled to become nuclear powers. The genie is out of the bottle, to an extent, and getting it back in is extremely unlikely. Four countries (India, Israel, North Korea, and Pakistan) have small, but growing nuclear arsenals — these are the emerging nuclear powers. Several other countries, most notably Iran and Brazil, can best be described as nascent nuclear powers.

India is one of the larger emerging nuclear powers. It has a large force of missiles (75 Prithvi, each with a range of up to 250 kilometers, and 20 Agni, each with a range of 2,000 kilometers). India also has been known to have detonated several nuclear weapons in 1998. Their arsenal is generally cited in the range of 60 to 80 warheads, but it could be as high as 200. In addition to the missile arsenal, India could use aircraft like the Jaguar and MiG-27, to deliver a nuclear strike. India could also use submarines to fire cruise missiles, and has fired the Prithvi from underwater, indicating that an effort to

Israel is arguably the emerging power with the largest nuclear arsenal, although, they have not officially declared a nuclear arsenal. This arsenal is estimated to have as few as 80 to as many as 300 nuclear weapons. Some are on Jericho ballistic missiles (50 Jericho 1, with a 500-kilometer range and 50 Jericho 2, with a range of 1500 to 4000 kilometers), others are reportedly on 12 Popeye Turbo cruise missiles (with a range of 200 to 1500 kilometers) launched from Dolphin-class submarines. The balance are gravity bombs used from Israeli aircraft like the F-16, F-15I, F-4, and A-4. The Israeli nuclear arsenal is probably on par with that of France in terms of quantity, and larger than the United Kingdom, but details are kept very quiet, and Israel has not publicly declared itself to be in possession of nuclear weapons.

Pakistan developed nuclear weapons in response to India's program. This is a much more limited program, due to efforts by the United States to keep it in check. Pakistan's 1998 nuclear tests brought sanctions, but the Pakistani program, led by the now-notorious Abdul Qadeer Khan, produced about 30 weapons. Pakistan is capable of adding four to eight weapons per year. Some are used on the Shaheen missiles (The Shaheen is a copy of the Chinese M-11, the Shaheen I is a copy of the M-9, and the Shaheen II is a copy of the Chinese M-18, with a 2,000 kilometer range) and the Ghauri III (a copy of the North Korean Nodong missile, with a 2,500-kilometer range). Pakistan's F-16s could also be used to deliver gravity bombs.

North Korea is the last of the emerging nuclear powers. It has a small arsenal, anywhere from 13 to 20 weapons. It also has a large missile arsenal (100 Nodong missiles, with a 1,300 kilometer range; 10 Nodong-B missiles, with a range of 2,750 to 4,000 kilometers, and 5 Taepo Dong 2 missiles, with a range of 13,500 miles), but its nuclear weapons seem limited to gravity bombs from aircraft.

Two other countries are trying to join this club of emerging nuclear powers. Brazil has been pursuing some sort of nuclear weapons program since 1975, and suspicions have been heightened due to public statements by President Lula da Silva criticizing the 1970 Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and refusals to cooperate with the IAEA on some inspections.

Iran is the other, and more notable nascent power. It is also one of concern, due to its sponsorship of Hezbollah. Iran's arrival to the nuclear weapons club is estimated to be sometime in 2005, but the ability is said to be almost definite by 2010. These efforts are centered around Bushehr.

Two other countries are worth noting as a dormant nuclear power. South Africa had six nuclear weapons in the 1980s, delivered from aircraft (the Buccaneer or Cheetah). They were dismantled in 1991, and South Africa is now declaring no nuclear ambitions. This is the only time that any nation has voluntarily given up nuclear weapons. Libya also has given up a nuclear weapons program, after spending as much as $140 million, including $100 million in payments to Pakistani scientists, although this was done while the United States was preparing to liberate Iraq. Qaddafi decided that surrendering his nuclear weapons program was the safest course of action.
Posted by: Steve || 06/21/2005 09:44 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

#1  One could add Japan to this list if the situation warranted it doing so probably in short order. Right now I think the possbilty of a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan is a remote possibility. Personaly I think the Indians developed their arsenal more with an eye on China. For the Israelis to use nucs I think would take a nuclear attack on them or their being in a position of looking at a total defeat of the IDF in the field. Unlikely IMO. North Korea is the wild card in this bunch. If they have an arsenal of 15 to 20 weapons they could threaten the South Koreans (or the Japanese) with the destruction of their population centers or simply try a pre-emptive attack. The greatest likely hood for this IMO would be a use it or loose it scenario.
The other possible nuclear regional powers such as Brazil really don't make a whole lot of sense. Why would Brazil want or need nuclear weapons. Its not as though they couldn't defeat any potential regional threat if they had to. The only way it makes sense for them to obtain nucs is to use them as a leverage device with the US and even then it does not make much sense. And if the Brazilians obtain nucs the some other nations in SA might make the decision to go nuclear too. Just what the world woulf need, another regional arms race. One possible nuclear nation that make some sort of sense is Indonesia from their view point. A large portion of world trade passes through Indonesian waters and at soe point in the future they may feel the need to flex their muscles. It doesn't make any sense to me but it could happen. Another possible reason is to threaten Australia. A large mostly empty neighbor right next door to a heavily populated island chain is a recipe for sleepless nights in Canberra. But if Indonesia does go nuclear I think it will be more of a response to Iran and Pakistan. If those Islamic nations go nuclear then why shouldn't the world's most populous Islamic nation go nuclear also.

Just my $.02
Posted by: Cheaderhead || 06/21/2005 15:22 Comments || Top||

Southeast Asia
Malaysia Calls for an End to 'Islamophobia'
Malaysia yesterday called for an end to widespread "Islamophobia", saying stereotyping and prejudice against Muslims risked sparking off large-scale conflicts.
"You know we can't control ourselves, so just relax and ignore us..."
Allan mainly helps those who can't help themselves.
"Worldwide, the image of Islam...has suffered primarily as a result of a perception of association with extremism, radicalism and poverty," Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar told a seminar.
With the exception of a few commies, most of the world's extremists, radicals, and cesspools of poverty are Islamic. The more Islamic they are, the more extreme and radical they are, though I'll admit some of the most extreme and radical sit on large pools of oil which provide a temporary wealth.
"Islamophobia is a problem. I think we need to handle and tackle it appropriately," he said, adding it needed to be "stopped dead in its tracks" to ensure "large-scale conflagration among and within societies does not occur."
The way to stop it dead in its tracks is to hunt down and slaughter the headchoppers, acid tossers, gunnies, snuffies, hard boyz, and assorted holy men. That'll clear things up in a flash.
Syed Hamid said Islam continues to be distorted in the international media, and that more cross-cultural dialogues should be held to "foster deeper understanding and bridge the gap between the East and West."
We read the Islamic media, too, every chance we get. I'm trying to figure where the distortions lie...

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10800 views] Top|| File under:

#1  'Malaysia yesterday called for an end to widespread “Islamophobia”, saying stereotyping and prejudice against Muslims risked sparking off large-scale conflicts.'

Uh, I think you got things backwards here.
Posted by: beer_me || 06/21/2005 1:17 Comments || Top||

#2  So... where do you think the head-choppers in Southern Thailand come from?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 06/21/2005 4:59 Comments || Top||

#3  Is it just me, or does it seem that somebody, somewhere got a Saudi major grant to fund "Combating Islamophobia".
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 7:46 Comments || Top||

#4  Or else?
Posted by: gromgoru || 06/21/2005 7:58 Comments || Top||

#5  Article: Malaysia’s government promotes a moderate version of Islamic in this multicultural nation, which is also home to large Indian and Chinese minorities, but there is a constant battle with religious hardliners.

He left out one word: Malaysia’s government promotes a moderate version of Islamic in this multicultural nation, which is also home to large Indian and Chinese minorities, but there is a constant battle with Islamic religious hardliners.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/21/2005 8:38 Comments || Top||

#6  Why about fighting islamophobia through Muslims asking themselves about "root causes of islamophobia", about "Why they hate us?" and acting about it? Like for instance by shooting moonbats, closing madrassas, exopelling wahabists from Mecca and abolishing shariah and discriminations?
Posted by: JFM || 06/21/2005 9:36 Comments || Top||

#7  It isn't islamophobia, it's islamo... islamo... what's Greek for hatred?
Posted by: BH || 06/21/2005 10:06 Comments || Top||

#8  what's Greek for hatred?

Posted by: Steve || 06/21/2005 13:17 Comments || Top||

#9  sure, when there's an end to Islamic thantophilia....
Posted by: Jetch Jort4255 || 06/21/2005 14:48 Comments || Top||

#10  Malaysia yesterday called for an end to widespread “Islamophobia”, saying stereotyping and prejudice against Muslims risked sparking off large-scale conflicts.

Its a two way street assholes
Posted by: Cheaderhead || 06/21/2005 15:32 Comments || Top||

#11  I call for an end to Islamophilia. Anybody with me?
Posted by: BrerRabbit || 06/21/2005 17:08 Comments || Top||

#12  Perhaps Malaysia could do something about the spread of anti-semitism coming from their own leaders. Get that done and we'll talk.
Posted by: RJ Schwarz || 06/21/2005 23:41 Comments || Top||

Saad Hariri Seeks a Broader Alliance
The leader of Lebanon's victorious opposition alliance, Saad Hariri, said yesterday it was too early to talk of becoming prime minister, insisting he first wanted to hold talks with his defeated rivals. "We are trying to get a more broad alliance in discussion with other parties," Saad told a Beirut press conference. "Once we achieve that, we will discuss about the prime ministership."

Saad ruled out any precipitate move to unseat under-fire pro-Syrian President Emile Lahoud, who has more than two years in office after a controversial Damascus-inspired extension was approved last September. "This is an issue that is quite sensitive in Lebanon," he said. "We will move with the sensitivity that it needs." Saad rejected suggestions his alliance had no program comparable with glossy 47-page policy document put out by one of his main election rivals — Christian firebrand Michel Aoun. "We have a program, we will issue it within a week," he said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10793 views] Top|| File under:

#1  We have a program, we will issue it within a week In other words, you don't have a program.
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 7:52 Comments || Top||

Afghanistan/South Asia
ISI, LET use Kashmir bus service to bomb school
I think the Indian PM needs a slap upside the head.
Is he really so naive?

ISI, LeT behind Phulwama blast

21 June 2005: The government is very upset learning of the involvement of Pakistani agencies in the Phulwama school bombing, and the Union home ministry in a paper to the cabinet committee on security is also likely to reveal the use of the Srinagar-Muzzafarabad bus service to send funds across to buy explosives for the blast.

Officials said that the Phulwama bombing was a joint operation of Pakistan's ISI and the Lashkar-e-Toiba, and that unable to infiltrate explosives into Jammu and Kashmir through the border, funds were sent on the bus from Muzzafarabad, to buy it locally, with the involvement of some front persons.

While the agencies were able to determine the local purchases, the Phulwama explosion took place before the terror network could be busted, and the government is perturbed that explosives were available locally easily.

But it is also likely that prime minister Manmohan Singh may make a statement on the Phulwama bombing, especially pointing to the terrorists' abuse of a bus service meant to bring Kashmiris on both sides of the LoC together in peace.
Posted by: john || 06/21/2005 17:06 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

Home Front: Culture Wars
judje jus says no too korran
The state's judges will be asked this week to decide whether witnesses in North Carolina courtrooms can be sworn in on a Quran rather than a Bible. The move comes after Guilford County judges rejected an offer last week by the Greensboro Islamic center to donate copies of the Quran, the Muslim idol holy book.

The Administrative Office of the Courts will ask the opinion of the state's judges when they meet this week at judicial conferences in Asheville and Wrightsville Beach, said Dick Ellis, a spokesman for the office.

"We'll take the input of the judges and bring it together and try to come up with an answer that pleases most people and follows the law," he said. That move came after the office got queries on the issue last week. In a preliminary opinion issued last week, a lawyer for the Administrative Office of the Courts said that state law allows people to be sworn in using a Quran rather than a Bible, Ellis said. But Guilford County judges told officials with the Islamic center Friday that they would not allow that in their courtrooms.

"An oath on the Quran is not a lawful oath under our law," W. Douglas Albright, Guilford's Senior Resident Superior Court judge, said earlier in the week. That decision disappointed Syidah Mateen, who tried to donate the copies of the Quran.

"This is a diverse world, and everybody does not worship or believe the same," she said. Ellis said he is not aware of anyone ever being allowed to swear on anything other than the Bible in a North Carolina courtroom. Anyone who objects to that may take an oath, which means that they raise their hand and affirm to tell the truth.

Posted by: muck4doo || 06/21/2005 15:44 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10802 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This looks like a fine place to fight.
Posted by: N Greene Esq, || 06/21/2005 16:26 Comments || Top||

#2  Do they have athiests in NC? What do they do?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 06/21/2005 16:38 Comments || Top||

#3  We do not solemnly swear, we affirm.
(Same thing, different words. F00ken lawyers)
Posted by: mmurray821 || 06/21/2005 16:44 Comments || Top||

#4  Wouldn't it be a insult for non-muslims to touch the holy handgrenade Korant? I mean there was such a fuss over at the Gitmo Country Club last month over non-mulims touching the korant without proper overgarments/gloves/eye protection.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 06/21/2005 16:53 Comments || Top||

#5  You can swear on a paper sack if that gets your rocks off!
Posted by: Mountain Man || 06/21/2005 16:55 Comments || Top||

#6  You want to swear on the KQ'ur'an'? Really? That thing that sez it's okay to lie to non-muslims? What a great idea! Should we make the filthy infidel kaffir bailiff wear gloves so he doesn't get his monkey flopsweat on it?
Posted by: BH || 06/21/2005 17:15 Comments || Top||

#7  I see this backfiring on our Islamist opponents and their bloodsucking attys. Poor choice of location.....only thing worse might be Texas
Posted by: Frank G || 06/21/2005 17:39 Comments || Top||

#8  Not opposed to the idea BUT only after Saudi Arabia allows Bibles and the open worship by Christans in the Magic Kingdom.
Posted by: GK || 06/21/2005 18:18 Comments || Top||

#9  I may be mistaken on the subject, but it seems to me a strict Muslim would not be permitted by his religion to swear on the Koran, so this is a non-issue.
Posted by: buwaya || 06/21/2005 23:28 Comments || Top||

#10  FrankG--I live in NC--HOW dare you compare us to Texas--NC makes Texas, Missisippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana look like Manhattan! Texas?--That backward bunch?
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 06/21/2005 23:30 Comments || Top||

#11  look like Manhattan!

sayer hi all em rats an cokroaches for me tehn
Posted by: muck4doo || 06/21/2005 23:43 Comments || Top||

Daley says Durbin should apologize for Guantanamo remarks
Chicago Mayor Richard Daley says Senator Dick Durbin should apologize for comments comparing American interrogators at Guantanamo Bay to Nazis.

Daley says Durbin -- a fellow Democrat -- is a good friend. But he says it's wrong to evoke comparisons to the horrors of the Holocaust or the millions of people killed in Russia under Stalin or in Cambodia under Pol Pot.

And Daley says it's a disgrace to accuse military men and women of such conduct.

Last Friday, Durbin said he regretted any misunderstandings caused by his comments earlier in the week.

He made the comparison after reading an F-B-I agent's report describing detainees at the Naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as being chained to the floor without food or water in extreme temperatures.

HT to Drudge - Rats deserting a sinking shit ship
Posted by: Frank G || 06/21/2005 16:09 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10795 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Smart move. Perhaps Mr. Daley would like to be the next senator from Ilinois.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 06/21/2005 16:19 Comments || Top||

#2  very well might, I'd let Dr. Steve, et al, who reside there comment on that - Durbin is (3PM PST) just know doing another half-assed apology on the Senate Floor. Looks like the chickens came home to roost
Posted by: Frank G || 06/21/2005 17:58 Comments || Top||

#3  Daley's son enlisted in December. I've heard he is now serving in one of the Airborne Infantry units. I know several folks that have sons, brothers, etc. serving now and, to a person, they would like to tear Durbin's head off. And the women moreso then the men.
People don't like their sons, daughters, brothers, sisters etc. who are serving their country compared to the Nazis, and despite what Durbin says he meant to say, that's what the douchebag did.
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/21/2005 18:21 Comments || Top||

#4  Daley's are all born with excellent ears.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/21/2005 18:51 Comments || Top||

#5  I think Daley was just the delivery boy for the Chicago machine. He wasn't asking Durbin, he was telling him.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 06/21/2005 19:39 Comments || Top||

#6  Too right, Anonymoose.

Turban Durban has officially been read off by da Boyz. He proceeds at his own peril.
Posted by: Darth VAda || 06/21/2005 20:07 Comments || Top||

#7  Somone needs to give Turban Durban the Black Spot™.
Arrrr! Better not take it out of the K'q'u'o'r'a'n or the Bible, though.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 06/21/2005 21:07 Comments || Top||

There's Progress in Iraq
By Kofi Annan Hipboot alert, it gets deep
Today I am traveling to Brussels to join representatives of more than 80 governments and institutions in sending a loud and clear message of support for the political transition in Iraq.

A year ago, in Resolution 1546, the U.N. Security Council set out the timetable that Iraq, with the assistance of the United Nations and the international community, was expected to fulfill. The Brussels conference is a chance to reassure the Iraqi people that the international community stands with them in their brave efforts to rebuild their country, and that we recognize how much progress has been made in the face of daunting challenges.

Elections were held in January, on schedule. Three months later the Transitional National Assembly endorsed the transitional government. The dominant parties have begun inclusive negotiations, in which outreach to Sunni Arabs is a major theme. A large number of Sunni groups and parties are now working to make sure that their voices are fully heard in the process of drafting a new constitution, and that they participate fully in the referendum to approve it and the elections slated for December.

Indeed, just last week an agreement was achieved to expand the committee drafting the constitution to ensure full participation by the Sunni Arab community. This agreement, which the United Nations helped to facilitate, should encourage all Iraqis to press ahead with the drafting of the constitution by the Aug. 15 deadline.

As the process moves forward, there will no doubt be frustrating delays and difficult setbacks. But let us not lose sight of the fact that all over Iraq today, Iraqis are debating nearly every aspect of their political future.

The United Nations has been strongly urged by a wide spectrum of Iraqis to help them maintain momentum, as we did with January's elections. They have sought our support in constitution-making, in preparing for the October referendum and the December elections, and in coordinating donor assistance for the political transition as well as reconstruction and development.

Our response has been prompt and resolute. We have set up a donor coordination mechanism in Baghdad, deployed a Constitutional Support Unit, and established an active and collaborative relationship with the assembly's constitutional committee. Today more than 800 U.N. personnel -- both local and international, including security staff -- are serving in Iraq in the U.N. assistance mission.

In a media-hungry age, visibility is often regarded as proof of success. But this does not necessarily hold true in Iraq. Even when, as with last week's agreement, the results of our efforts are easily seen by all, the efforts themselves must be undertaken quietly and away from the cameras.

Whether U.N. assistance proves effective will depend largely on the Iraqis. Only they can write a constitution that is inclusive and fair. The United Nations cannot and will not draft it for them. Nor do we need to, because Iraqis are more than capable of doing it themselves. They would welcome advice, but they will decide which advice is worth taking.

As important as particular constitutional provisions is the underlying accommodation between Iraq's diverse communities. My special representative, Ashraf Qazi, is encouraging and facilitating the delicate task of political outreach to all Iraqi communities to promote a truly inclusive transition. His work, too, is necessarily carried out away from the media glare, as he seeks to build the trust and confidence among the various constituencies that will be the key to the successful transition envisaged by Security Council Resolution 1546.

There are, of course, those who wish to exacerbate communal tensions and prevent the emergence of a democratic, pluralist, stable Iraq. They seek to capitalize on the serious difficulties faced by ordinary people, and to exploit popular anger and resentment to promote hatred and violence. Their work is seen on the streets of Iraq every day.

I do not believe that security measures alone can provide a sufficient response to this situation. For such measures to be successful, they must be part of a broad-based and inclusive strategy that embraces the political transition, development, human rights and institution-building, so that all of Iraq's communities see that they stand to be winners in the new Iraq. These efforts must be underpinned by steps to deal with Iraq's tortured past -- a past that still exacts revenge and will, if not addressed, blight future generations. This is difficult for any society in transition, let alone one as dangerous as some areas of Iraq are today.

In aid of the transition, the United Nations is at work, both inside and outside the country, to support donor coordination, capacity-building of Iraqi ministries and civil society organizations, and delivery of basic services. Reconstruction of schools, water-treatment and waste-treatment plants, power plants and transmission lines, food assistance to children, mine clearing and aid to hundreds of thousands of returning refugees and internally displaced persons -- all of these activities occur every day in Iraq under U.N. leadership.

The Iraqi people continue to endure a painful and difficult transition, and they still have a long and tough road ahead. The United Nations is privileged and determined to walk it with them. In doing so, we serve not only the people of Iraq, but the peoples of all nations.

The writer is secretary general of the United Nations.
I think we all owe Kofi thanks for removing Saddam from power and.......oh, right..
Posted by: Steve || 06/21/2005 15:42 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10797 views] Top|| File under:

#1  We have set up a donor coordination mechanism...
We haven't set up any way to disburse the funds yet, though my son is working on it.
Posted by: Jackal || 06/21/2005 16:05 Comments || Top||

#2  If Kofi's started claiming credit for the outcome we must be on the verge of shooting the last jihadi.
Posted by: Matt || 06/21/2005 16:10 Comments || Top||

#3  Kofi - how pathetic.

Makes me want to puke.
Posted by: Hyper || 06/21/2005 16:10 Comments || Top||

#4  I take it as a good sign. A pretty baby has many fathers - and Kofi is man about town.
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 16:11 Comments || Top||

#5  LOL 2b! Liker thatn
Posted by: FBI Barbie || 06/21/2005 17:42 Comments || Top||

#6  "As the process moves forward, there will no doubt be frustrating delays and difficult setbacks. But let us not lose sight of the fact that all over Iraq today, Iraqis are debating nearly every aspect of their political future."

Kofi, my man! Who put THOSE words in your mouth? Somebody gonna tell the Dims?
Posted by: Shavith Thaing5807 || 06/21/2005 18:14 Comments || Top||

#7  "There are, of course, those who wish to exacerbate communal tensions and prevent the emergence of a democratic, pluralist, stable Iraq. They seek to capitalize on the serious difficulties faced by ordinary people, and to exploit popular anger and resentment to promote hatred and violence." That'd be Durbin, Biden, NYT, LAT and thier ilk.
Posted by: Shavith Thaing5807 || 06/21/2005 18:16 Comments || Top||

#8  How did Bobby get to be someone else? Too big of a hurry for a pithy, pungent post. Bobby
Posted by: Shavith Thaing5807 || 06/21/2005 18:18 Comments || Top||

#9  This makes sense from Kofi. Congress just slashed UN funding. Better get on board with the US if you want mo money. Funny how $$$ can make these guys change their tune.
Posted by: intrinsicpilot || 06/21/2005 23:53 Comments || Top||

Home Front: Tech
New 30mm Cannon for AC-130
June 21, 2005: SOCOM is replacing the 25mm and 40mm guns, on its AC-130 gunships with, two 30mm Bushmaster cannon. The Mk44 30mm Bushmaster cannon weighs 344 pounds and fires at 200 or 400 rounds per minute (up to 7 per second). The cannon has 160 rounds available, before needing a reload. That means the gunner has 25-50 seconds worth of ammo, depending on rate of fire used. Each 30mm round weighs about 25 ounces (depending on type.) The anti-armor shell weighs about half a pound. The armor piercing round will go through 25mm of steel at 2,000 meters range. This will get through the top armor of most vehicles, and spray the inside with fragments. At that range, time of flight is about 1.7 seconds. Explosive anti-personnel rounds are also available. From higher altitudes (up to 6,000 meters), the AC-130 fire control system and night vision sensors, enable the 30mm gunners to accurately hit targets with high explosive shells.

The existing 25mm and 40mm guns are being phased out of military service, and the new 30mm gun is easier to operate. The first four AC-130s converted to use the 30mm guns, will be available later this year, with the rest of the 21 AC-130s converted next year.
Posted by: Steve || 06/21/2005 09:49 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Let's see the jihadis outrun these new guns (play on yesterday's story about the "insurgents" running around like they thought they could outrun a bullet).
Posted by: BA || 06/21/2005 10:06 Comments || Top||

#2  From the same Strategypage column :
"May 11, 2005: The U.S. Air Force is shipping to Iraq a new bomb, HardSTOP (Hardened Surface Target Ordnance Package), designed to destroy the inside of target buildings, without damaging adjacent buildings. HardSTOP is a GPS guided half ton cluster bomb. The GPS and computer in the bomb control the dispersal of 54 smaller bomblets, that are designed to penetrate the roof of a building and explode inside. The bomb software can be programmed to distribute the bomblets in an area as small as 20 feet in diameter, or up to 110 feet. When the bomblets go through the roof, they explode. Some of the bomblets can be programmed to go through one or more floors before exploding. With HardSTOP, the risk of damage to nearby buildings is minimal. Actually, the building the bomblets hit won’t be damaged much, as the small explosive charge in each bomblet is designed to kill people, not destroy a building. In effect, HARDStop puts 54 large hand grenades inside a building, allowing nearby friendly troops to quickly move in and take possession."
Now, THAT's room-clearing!
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 06/21/2005 10:23 Comments || Top||

#3  Maybe they've been watching "too much" (for them!) Rurouni Kenshin ... *snicker*
Posted by: Edward Yee || 06/21/2005 10:26 Comments || Top||

#4  The existing 25mm and 40mm guns are being phased out of military service, and the new 30mm gun is easier to operate. The first four AC-130s converted to use the 30mm guns, will be available later this year, with the rest of the 21 AC-130s converted next year

Will this eventually work its way down to the 25mm on the Bradley? One thing I am absolutely in favor of is commonality of ammunition types across the services when ever posible. I never really understood why the Navy should have a 6 inch naval rifle that used a different ammunition than the Army's 155MM SP and towed artillery. To me that is plain stupid
Posted by: Cheaderhead || 06/21/2005 11:17 Comments || Top||

#5  This is a good move I think. Many lessons learned and put into action from recent experience. The air crew that have to reload these things in flight will be happy too I hope.
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 06/21/2005 13:00 Comments || Top||

#6  Cheaderhead:
Not necessarily. It's possible (all My copies of Janes and such are at home) the Army guns are shorter and lighter than the Navy ones, trading off range and penetration against maneuverability. If you use a different barrel, the ammo should be different for best performance.

Now, if the they really are identical in size, then, yes, they probably should be unified, though remember that it could only be phased in over several years, since you don't want to throw out perfectly good weapons and ask Congress for new ones to save money.

Actually, what I dislike is that completely different weapons have the same caliber. Despite its many problems, the old Soviet Army did some good things. They would choose a slightly different caliber for different weapons. So you had a 73mm cannon, a 75mm rocket, a 76mm RCL and an 81(?)mm mortar. When you are trying to get more ammo from the rear, with your communications being disrupted, you just have to get "7-3" or "7-6" across.

Supposedly, this policy occurred when they were demonstrating the new 130mm rocket to Stalin. They opened the boxes and found 130mm HE artillery shells. Oops.
Posted by: Jackal || 06/21/2005 14:00 Comments || Top||

#7  When I was still in ('98) they were talking about a switch to the 30mm and ditch the TOW launcher for a HellFire Launcher. The 25mm Bushmaster was an awesome weapon. We had gunners that took out T-62's with the 25mm in the first Gulf War. They discovered that if you had a flank shot you could penetrate with AP. You just had to hit the thin armor between the road wheels.
Posted by: 98zulu || 06/21/2005 14:18 Comments || Top||

#8  So are the old phased out 40mm's available for purchase at WalMart yet, we have a gopher problem and I need something serious to rectify it.
Posted by: Mountain Man || 06/21/2005 16:39 Comments || Top||

#9  Snif!
I never go anywhere without my Janes.

ummm..... Im desperate for a '88 copy under market, I don't mind begging. There're damn difficult to steal, especially since Strozier sealed off the 6th floor windows.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/21/2005 17:37 Comments || Top||

#10  chain fed, at these rates? A-A weighs half a pound? Jeeebus! Hell has come to visit...
Posted by: Frank G || 06/21/2005 17:45 Comments || Top||

Terror Networks & Islam
Swede may have given Wood tip
A SWEDISH hostage who spent weeks in captivity with Douglas Wood may have given the US information that helped to secure the release of the 63-year-old Australian.

Ulf Hjertstrom, also 63, a Swedish oil broker who has lived in Baghdad for 14 years, was released from his own 67-day kidnap drama on May 30. Sweden's Aftonbladet newspaper has reported how Mr Hjertstrom, who was taken to US authorities after his release, was interrogated about his time as a hostage. According to the newspaper, information he provided helped to secure the release of Mr Wood, who spent several weeks sharing what was described as a cell with Mr Hjertstrom.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade confirmed Mr Wood spent part of his time in captivity with a Swedish national. "We can confirm that Mr Wood was held with a Swedish national who was released about two weeks before Mr Wood's recovery," the DFAT spokeswoman said.

After 47 days held hostage, Mr Wood was discovered last Wednesday during a routine search and cordon operation by Iraqi troops, backed by US forces. An Iraqi hostage was released during the same operation.

The details of how Mr Wood came to be freed remain sketchy, with Australian officials saying his rescuers received intelligence that led them to the house in the dangerous Baghdad suburb of Ghazaliya. However, US and Iraqi forces put the rescue down to good luck more than anything else.

Mr Wood, who returned to Australia yesterday, has revealed some details about what happened to him after he was kidnapped on April 30. During a press conference yesterday, he said he was held in two different houses throughout his ordeal, and remembered being moved from one to the other about 10 days into his captivity. He declined to answer a number of questions, saying it was too traumatic.

But Mr Wood is expected to give a fuller picture during a paid interview with Channel 10, to be broadcast on Sunday.
Posted by: Spavirt Pheng6042 || 06/21/2005 07:26 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sweden's Aftonbladet newspaper has reported how Mr Hjertstrom, who was taken to US authorities after his release, was interrogated about his time as a hostage.

'Spose he was chained to the floor and made to listen to pop music?
Posted by: Bobby || 06/21/2005 7:58 Comments || Top||

#2  Disinformation. They found him through electronic means.
Posted by: phil_b || 06/21/2005 8:18 Comments || Top||

#3  Bobby, we flew in the Swedish Bikini Team and had them invade his personal space until he relented. O the humanity.
Posted by: Seafarious || 06/21/2005 10:05 Comments || Top||

#4  Gee till I clicked on the link I thought this was about Tiger and the Swedish golfer braod.
Posted by: Cheaderhead || 06/21/2005 15:30 Comments || Top||

U.S. spending on Iraq may soon surpass Korean War budget
Lawmakers in the United States were scheduled to vote on Monday to approve $45 billion US in additional funding for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, making the recent Middle East foray more expensive than the entire Korean War. Since the Sept. 11 attacks, Congress has approved $350 billion, mostly for combat and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan. The amount, which includes $82 billion approved last month, is equal to the total amount in today's dollars spent on the Korean conflict from 1950-53. [...]
Well that does it...pull out of Iraq now! Oh wait...let's redo the dollar figures as a percentage of GDP, then and now. You do the math, I'm too tired...maybe this will help. More sensationalism at the link.
Posted by: Rafael || 06/21/2005 01:47 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Expending people costs considerably less than expending things, in the short run. When the writer is ready to support the costs of a poorly equipped million-man army, then he has something to talk about. He won't be right, but at least he'll be standing on somewhat more defensible ground.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/21/2005 2:35 Comments || Top||

#2  Oh, wait. I didn't notice that this is an article out of Canada. When the writer's country chooses to participate in the stabilization of Iraq, then they will have earnt the right to criticize. In the meantime, please do stop prattling about things that don't concern you. (Not you, Rafael, of course. I've never known you to utter anything but sense. ;-) )
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/21/2005 2:42 Comments || Top||

#3  What price freedom? Should we not spend whatever it takes to prevail? There is no substitute for victory. To fail would mean the end to all we value. If not us, Who? If not now, When?
Posted by: Tom Dooley || 06/21/2005 3:14 Comments || Top||

#4  I would much rather spend money then men. We may spend about as much as the Korean conflict, but our manpower cost are MUCH lower. Of course, the socialists want it the other way around. That way they have more money for their bloated social programs.
Posted by: mmurray821 || 06/21/2005 4:30 Comments || Top||

#5  There is also a feedback effect. Insofar as we are busy developing and fielding very expensive UAVs and other advanced recon and weapons systems, some of that cost goes back into the economy in the form of salaries for engineers etc. Without running a lot of numbers I couldn't estimate how much benefit comes back, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot higher than for the Korean war.
Posted by: too true || 06/21/2005 7:23 Comments || Top||

#6  JFK once said "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty".

I'm sure that the Democrats in Congress will react the same way to this news story - NOT.
Posted by: AJackson || 06/21/2005 7:41 Comments || Top||

#7  FYI

Canada in the Korean War

The "money quote" for this bean-counting asshat:

Altogether 26,791 Canadians served in the Korean conflict, and another 7,000 served in the theatre between the cease-fire and the end of 1955. United Nations' (including South Korean) fatal and non-fatal battle casualties numbered about 490,000. Of these 1,558 were Canadian. The names of 516 Canadian war dead are inscribed in the Korea Book of Remembrance.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 06/21/2005 8:20 Comments || Top||

#8  Well - the Koreans never attacked American soil, but the Muslim world did, through the plausibly-deniable terror attacks that occurred on September 11. So the appropriate measure isn't the Korean War, but WWII. And we are spending far less than on the War on Terror than we did in WWII. Our debt levels are certainly far lower - in WWII, they reached 130% of GDP, whereas we are only at 65% today.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/21/2005 8:35 Comments || Top||

#9  Yeah, but one lil' footnote he forgot to add. What are the costs since the Korean War to man the DMZ? Also, like TW said, I'd much rather pay more for things than for men dying. And (I admit, I don't know the exact start and end dates of Korea) note that he's comparing money spent (in today's dollars) over a 3-4 year period in Korea (o.k. it could be 4 years if it started Jan. 1, 1950 and ended exactly Dec. 31, 1953), whereas we're almost already 4 years since 9/11 (his "start" date of this spending now). I'd also like to know if his $350 billion is just military operations, or is it including re-vamping CIA/DIA, the new Homeland Security Dept., etc.? And, finally, I'd venture to guess that we didn't spend near the amount of money back then on re-construction as we are now (think of all the schools, hospitals, roads, water/sewer facilities, ports, etc. we've rebuilt and even improved upon in Afghan/Iraq).
Posted by: BA || 06/21/2005 8:43 Comments || Top||

#10  BA: And, finally, I'd venture to guess that we didn't spend near the amount of money back then on re-construction as we are now (think of all the schools, hospitals, roads, water/sewer facilities, ports, etc. we've rebuilt and even improved upon in Afghan/Iraq).

I'll bet he did not include the money we spent on rebuilding Korea after the war ended. We are rebuilding Iraq as we fight the guerrillas. In Korea, that wasn't really begun until the armistice, given the fluidity of the situation on the ground. There are lies, damned lies and journalistic assertions.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/21/2005 9:13 Comments || Top||

#11  Good catch, ZF! I bet dollars-to-doughnuts you're right!
Posted by: BA || 06/21/2005 9:18 Comments || Top||

#12  U.S. spending on Iraq may soon surpass Korean War budget

So this means......what?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 06/21/2005 10:09 Comments || Top||

#13  I remember when dollars to doughnuts represented good odds. That was during the Korean War, as I recall.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 06/21/2005 11:07 Comments || Top||

#14  Headline: U.S. spending on Iraq may soon surpass Korean War budget

Article: Since the Sept. 11 attacks, Congress has approved $350 billion, mostly for combat and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'll bet the cost of supporting 11,000 troops in Afghanistan via airlift costs 4 to 5 times what it does to ship supplies to an equivalent number of troops in Iraq via Basra. Think about what it costs you to ship Fedex Air vs Fedex Ground.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/21/2005 11:14 Comments || Top||

#15  Bomb-a-rama: it means "let the taxpayer take the hill".

Which I'm cool with, if they remember to record it for posterity.
Posted by: Mitch H. || 06/21/2005 15:43 Comments || Top||

#16  I'll take the contrarian side of this discussion. While it's true that the CBC is an anti-American mouthpiece and therefore skews its stats to put the WH in a bad light. And yes, comparing expenditures ( both lives lost and military costs)in the Korean War versus wars in Afghanistan and Iraq is like comparing apples to oranges. However, I think it's naive to believe that the majority of Americans will want GWB's approach to continue, if there's no bright light at the end of the tunnel by the the time the 2008 elections roll around. For one thing the America today is comprised of a very different body politic than in WWII. We've got a lot of foreign born sporting dual citizenships being taught in our public schools that nationalism is evil, that believing in God and religious theories about God given rights is very fundie, that America has done evil things over the years to other cultures, blah, blah Many Americans can barely remember what the Korean War was about never mind how much it cost us. Vietnam is more likely to be remembered and let's be honest, that memory is not too much of a booster for getting involved in "foreign wars." You would be right that the $380 Billion is a tiny percentage of our GDP and that 1700 GI's is about 50% of the 9/11 victims, BUT nonetheless I think Americans are getting very impatient with the Iraq War especially - the Iraqi people themselves are not easy for an American on Main Street "to connect to," to put it politely, and it's getting harder and harder each day for the average American to remember why we invaded Iraq in the first place.

If we have another attack in America before the 2008 election or if Hildabeast comes up with a withdrawal with honor secret plan ( Richard Nixon) or if GWB and Frist don't give the Christian right some hardline Supreme Court judges or if the price of oil goes up to $75 per gallon, we can kiss the 2008 election good bye. And if a like minded GOP candidate to GWB does not win the WH in 2008, we will withdraw from Iraq, you can count on it, no matter what percentage of the GDP the Iraq War is costing us.
Posted by: Thotch Glesing2372 || 06/21/2005 16:59 Comments || Top||

#17  The importnat thing about this argument is that no one has noted they were using 1953 dollars! Even tho the deadly deflator was applied it still doesn't wash because in 1953 Federal Promissary Notes were still shuned, folks wanted real money, Franklin halves, Mercury Dimes, Ford nickels, Lincoln pennies. It was hard currency! You could break a filling on a quality '50D Nickel. But then the Federal Reserve Board removed the palladium from the REAL MONEY SYSTEM. Causing despair and distruction, then it was Suez Crisis time, Ima assume you can follow from there.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/21/2005 17:50 Comments || Top||

#18  "I'll take the contrarian side of this discussion."

And water, she be wet. "Say Doom!" with a spell checker.
Posted by: .com || 06/21/2005 17:54 Comments || Top||

#19  A spell checker and a dictionary full of polysyllabic words.

I once had a friend who so enjoyed arguing that she would take whichever side was unrepresented. She was shocked when the corporation fired her because of her inability to take the job seriously. That's the cost of refusing to grow up.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/21/2005 18:49 Comments || Top||

#20  She shoulda gone to law school. Woulda been rich by now.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 06/21/2005 18:53 Comments || Top||

#21  Zhang Fei wrote:

I'll bet the cost of supporting 11,000 troops in Afghanistan via airlift costs 4 to 5 times what it does to ship supplies to an equivalent number of troops in Iraq via Basra. Think about what it costs you to ship Fedex Air vs Fedex Ground.

I don't have a reference handy, but I could swear I've seen recent cost figures for supporting troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it was about twice as much per soldier, or a little over, for Afghanistan than for Iraq.
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 06/21/2005 19:28 Comments || Top||

#22  Not you, Rafael, of course. I've never known you to utter anything but sense.

Well thank you :) though others here would probably disagree.

This is just another attempt to "inflate" the war in Iraq, of course. There aren't enough burning US tanks to take pictures of, so the next best thing is to compare this to past wars. Other than this, you'd have to point out the good accomplishments in Iraq, and we can't have that, can we? This is just an incredibly stupid comparison. I'm pretty sure the budget for the Iraq "war" has surpassed the dollar figures of a thousand other wars as well...your point, Mr. writer-at-the-cbc???

The other thing is, I have a problem with calling the current situation in Iraq, a war. Other than fitting in with the broader "WoT" reference, is it really a war? Of course, use of the word war conjures up images of Korea, Vietnam, burning tanks, which is precisely the purpose of this article and hence its use is encouraged by the MSM. Though, I could be off the deep end on this, so I don't know. I'd rather call this a "reconstruction effort"... but I don't work for the MSM.
Posted by: Rafael || 06/21/2005 21:28 Comments || Top||

EU, US to push for wider debt relief for Iraq
BRUSSELS - The United States and Europe will urge Iraq's remaining creditors to match or better Western government pledges of debt relief at an international conference on Wednesday, EU and US officials said on Monday.

The conference, jointly hosted by the European Union and Washington, will tread carefully around lingering sensitivities over the US-led war, which split Europe in 2003, and is not aiming to produce initiatives to tackle the lethal insurgency in Iraq. Instead, ministers will focus on political and economic themes -- pressing Baghdad to give minority Sunni Arabs a fair say in drafting a constitution, and encouraging others to follow the Paris Club of creditor nations in slashing Iraqi debt.

"This is the opportunity for Iraq and members of the Paris Club to encourage others to be as generous, or more generous," an EU official told a briefing, referring to an accord last November to slash 80 percent of the Paris Club debt, worth $38.9 billion.

The Paris Club includes the Group of Seven industrialised countries -- the United States, Japan, Canada, Germany, Britain, France and Italy -- as well as other western European states, Russia and Australia.

But Washington estimates Iraq owes as much as $70 billion, including commercial debt, outside the Paris Club and has been urging those creditors for months to make a contribution. "Obviously these are issues that have to be settled in bilateral negotiations," Richard Jones, Iraq advisor to US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said in an interview. "But if we get indications from countries that they are well-disposed, that is a step forward," he told Reuters in Brussels, citing Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Brazil, China, India and eastern European states among those substantial creditors.

Washington went further than the 80 percent relief agreed by the Paris Club by waiving all of the $4 billion Iraq owed it.
Posted by: Steve White || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

Saddam Insists He's Still Iraq President
Whoopdy doo. I insist I'm tall and good looking, with a full head of wavy black hair...
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10794 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm sure Senator Durbin and the Democratic Party believe the same thing too. It was all a mistake. Put him back. Free him from the Nazis and the gulag!
Posted by: Snolunter Elmineger5424 || 06/21/2005 8:28 Comments || Top||

#2  I think his claim is very credible. After all, he did get 100% of the vote in the last pre-invasion election! *snicker*
Posted by: Dar || 06/21/2005 11:22 Comments || Top||

#3  Yea he can insist right up to the time they hang him.:)
Posted by: djohn66 || 06/21/2005 12:48 Comments || Top||

#4  So, Saddam, do you know Al Gore?
Posted by: Jackal || 06/21/2005 21:44 Comments || Top||

Iraq Says Izzy Losing Influence
A fugitive confidant of Saddam Hussein who is now believed to be an insurgent leader is sick and losing influence among leaders of the outlawed Baath party, the Iraqi government said Monday. The government's statement said Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri nonetheless retained his ability to "recruit terrorists and finance terrorist attacks with money he stole from Iraq and transferred to Syria during the rule of the tyrant Saddam." It did not say what the red-haired al-Douri was sick with, or explain how it knew about his health. Al-Douri is thought to be in his late 60s and little is known about his whereabouts following Saddam's ouster in 2003.
We ought to spread a rumor about how FDA Red Dye #5 causes genital warts, and see if Izzy squirms.
Under Saddam, al-Douri was vice chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council, the highest executive body in Iraq. After Saddam's capture in December 2003, al-Douri became the most wanted Iraqi still at large. With a $10 million bounty on his head, al-Douri is believed to be playing a key role in the two-year insurgency wracking much of Iraq. Former Baathists, embittered by their loss of power after Saddam's ouster, are thought to be a key component of the insurgency. Other factions include Muslim militants, some of whom are allied with Jordanian-born terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his al-Qaida in Iraq group. Former members of Saddam's army also are thought to be playing a role in the Sunni Arab-dominated insurgency.

Al-Douri is believed to lead groups called the New Regional Command and the New Baath Party. Citing reports, the government announcement said al-Douri's bad health had undermined his sway over Baathist leaders because of his inability to communicate with them. It said al-Douri was suspected of involvement in the use of chemical weapons against Kurdish villagers in 1988, the brutal suppression of a Shiite revolt in 1991 in southern Iraq and mass executions. The government did not reveal the source of its information or explain why it was releasing the statement now, but the announcement came one day after an Iraqi tribunal investigating members of Saddam's regime released a videotape. It showed testimony from the ousted dictator's cousin, nicknamed "Chemical Ali" for his alleged role in the 1988 gas attack that killed thousands of Kurds.
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10793 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Izzy isn't, is he?
Posted by: Captain America || 06/21/2005 1:13 Comments || Top||

#2  we can always hope his ill health is due to a sucking chest wound or sepsis.
Posted by: 2b || 06/21/2005 7:30 Comments || Top||

#3  Whenever I see a picture of a thug saluting like that, I picture an all-kazoo band striking up the local National Anthem....
Posted by: BigEd || 06/21/2005 7:41 Comments || Top||

#4  Leukemia?

Get's his military gene from his grandfather one Sgt. William (Billy) O'Brien late of Her Majesty's Armed Forces.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/21/2005 8:00 Comments || Top||

Afghanistan/South Asia
'Pakistan interfering in Afghanistan'
President Hamid Karzai accused Pakistan of interfering in Afghanistan's internal affairs, Online reported on Monday. Radio Tehran quoted Karzai as telling a religious council that Islamabad was backing the anti-Kabul elements. Karzai alleged that Pakistan had threatened the Taliban with handing over their families to the US if they did not fight against Afghanistan. Meanwhile, an Afghan official told the Associated Press that the Afghan government was extremely angry at what he called a "lack of cooperation" from Islamabad in stopping militants from crossing the border.

The Afghan official said Pakistan's lack of resolve was a factor in both the assassination plot of US envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, and an upsurge in violence across Afghanistan that has left hundreds dead. "We have always believed that if we got cooperation from Pakistan, this violence wouldn't be happening," he said. "These militants are getting support from people in Pakistan, and we are not convinced when Islamabad says it can't control them."
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10793 views] Top|| File under:

#1  'Pakistan interfering in Afghanistan' They must be true to their ancient traditions.

President Karzai, you might want to start building a fence. India should have good advice on what style best keeps out Pakistani enthusiasts.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/21/2005 2:17 Comments || Top||

#2  President Hamid Karzai accused Pakistan of interfering in Afghanistan's internal affairs,

Upping the heat.
Posted by: too true || 06/21/2005 6:42 Comments || Top||

#3  Pakwakiland interferes in everyone's internal affairs.
Posted by: Spot || 06/21/2005 6:54 Comments || Top||

#4  Get yo' grubby paws of my Khyber
Posted by: BigEd || 06/21/2005 7:43 Comments || Top||

#5  Pakwakiland interferes in everyone's internal affairs.

Except, oddly, their own. Those they have no influence over.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 06/21/2005 7:48 Comments || Top||

#6  Maybe, if you give Perv another F15, he'll stop.
Posted by: gromgoru || 06/21/2005 7:52 Comments || Top||

#7  It's not Perv, it's the ISI boys who would like him out of power.
Posted by: too true || 06/21/2005 7:55 Comments || Top||

#8  TT, do a net search on Perv's millitary career.
Posted by: gromgoru || 06/21/2005 8:08 Comments || Top||

#9  Yeah, yeah, I know.

But right now, it's the ISI guys pushing past the limits while Perv tries desperately to straddle the fence. Sure it would be grand if he were a staunch ally. But he's a useful tool to some degree as is -- and certainly better than the ISI boys.

Until we have deep military and political ties with a resurgent India and have stabilized Afghanistan, Pakistan is geopolitically crucial for us. Perv is probably the best we could get there. Not saying much, I know ....
Posted by: too true || 06/21/2005 8:19 Comments || Top||

#10  I disagree RC. I think the Paks like chaos. They have so much that they can export it to everyone.
Posted by: Spot || 06/21/2005 9:13 Comments || Top||

#11  Good point, Spot! Man, I sure hope the heat gets turned up and fast in this area. It's sad to me that the US media has basically forgotten about Afghanistan and Paki-waki. This is a vital front in the WoT.
Posted by: BA || 06/21/2005 9:35 Comments || Top||

#12  Damn exporting Entropy!

I've got a new Junior Sales Concept for me skool. Giver us $10.00 right now and we won't release these 11 twerp cats into yer backyard.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/21/2005 15:55 Comments || Top||

Pakistan wants probe into suspects' identity
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan demanded on Monday that Afghan authorities carry out an investigation to determine the identities of three Pakistani men arrested for allegedly plotting to assassinate the US ambassador. Foreign Ministry spokesman Jalil Abbas Jilani said Pakistan had only heard of the arrests through the media and it has not been "officially informed" by the Afghan government. "We are confident that (a) proper investigation would be conducted to ascertain the identity and motives of the alleged plotters," he said. Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed reacted angrily to any suggestion that there had been official sanction for the plot. "This is a baseless allegation," he said.
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10793 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Yeah, yeah. We'll get back to you on that, doods.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/21/2005 12:45 Comments || Top||

#2  They can't be Pakistanis were all good boys and girls
Posted by: Mountain Man || 06/21/2005 18:32 Comments || Top||

26 buildings of Darra Adamkhel tribe sealed
PESHAWAR: The government on Monday sealed 26 buildings of the Darra Adamkhel tribe in Peshawar to press them to handover kidnappers who had abducted and killed two Adazay villagers. The Adazay village protested against the kidnapping and murder its residents, blocked the Kohat road and demanded a government operation against criminal hideouts in Darra Adamkhel. Federally Administered Tribal Areas security chief Arbab Arif told Daily Times that the government had sealed off business centres of the Darra tribesmen under the collective responsibility section-21 of the Frontier Crimes Regulations (FCR). He said the action was taken on the orders of Kohat's district coordination officer (DCO). However, the DCO was not available for comment.

Gul Haji Plaza, the largest computer accessories centre on University Road, was also sealed and shopkeepers condemned the government's decision. "This act has caused us huge monetary losses and the government should deal directly with Darra Adamkhel tribesmen instead of punishing us," computer dealer Mushtaq Ahmad told Daily Times, adding that 300 shops in the plaza had been sealed.
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10793 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Imitating the Zionist entity Perv? Shame on you.
Posted by: gromgoru || 06/21/2005 7:56 Comments || Top||

Islamabad Denies Presence of Taleban on Its Soil
Pakistan yesterday denied that leaders from Afghanistan's ousted Taleban militia use its territory to make statements to the media, days after a purported commander from the militia told a Pakistani television channel that Osama Bin Laden and Taleban chief Mulla Citizen Omar were alive and well.
"Who? Us? Pshaw! No way!"
"An interview with a particular news channel is absolutely no guide to the presence of certain individuals in a particular territory," Foreign Ministry spokesman Jalil Abbas Jilani said.
I'm not too sure denial of the obvious is the way to handle this, Jalil...
"You must have seen that a number of interviews have appeared on international channels, again in Western capitals, from other countries also, that does not mean that those individuals were actually present in the countries from where the interviews were telecast or were taken," Jilani told a weekly news conference. His denial came after Pakistan's Geo television on Wednesday aired an interview with a man it said was Taleban military commander Mulla Akhtar Usmani, a former Afghan aviation minister.
"Somebody shut him up!... No, no! He's raving! Really! Been sick for some time now! Just ignore him..."
The man did not specify where Bin Laden was, but said he was "absolutely fine," and that Omar was still issuing orders. A senior journalist at the independent station said the interview was done near the Afghan town of Spinboldak, which is close to the Pakistani border.
This article starring:
Foreign Ministry spokesman Jalil Abbas Jilani
Posted by: Fred || 06/21/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [10793 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "You must have seen that a number of interviews have appeared on international channels, again in Western capitals, from other countries also, that does not mean that those individuals were actually present in the countries from where the interviews were telecast or were taken,"

Of course not - everybody knows they could have used their Secret Mystic Body Projection skills to do those interviews.
Posted by: too true || 06/21/2005 6:44 Comments || Top||

#2  OK... fine... then how about Taliban in your soil or under the soil? Did you look there? Probably not! There are Taliban everywhere, and then there are real Taliban. They are there, just look for the signs... missing eyes, dark foreboding cloth patterns and styles, arrogant swaggers, unkempt beards and facial hair clumps and unusual moles, smelly bodies, shiny SUVs, lots of boys with downcast looks with bruises in tow, a lack of female companions, and lots of jibber jabber about sharia and shaheed. Amongst these humanoid appearing throwbacks, there might even be a true Muslim... the scared looking one headed to a lynching.
Posted by: Flavins Flineque6690 || 06/21/2005 10:59 Comments || Top||

#3  SMPB
sounds like a rogue mail protocol
Posted by: Shipman || 06/21/2005 15:57 Comments || Top||

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Two weeks of WOT
Tue 2005-06-21
  Saudi 'cop killers' shot dead
Mon 2005-06-20
  Afghan Officials Stop Khalizad Assassination Plot
Sun 2005-06-19
  Senior Saudi Security Officer Killed In Drive-By Shooting
Sat 2005-06-18
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Fri 2005-06-17
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Thu 2005-06-16
  Captured: Abu Talha, Mosul's Most-Wanted
Wed 2005-06-15
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Tue 2005-06-14
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Mon 2005-06-13
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Sat 2005-06-11
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Fri 2005-06-10
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