Sounds to me like dud bombs and boomers who panicked.
Staff at a central London hospital were told Thursday to look out for an Asian or black man with wires protruding from his shirt after witnesses reported seeing someone of that description fleeing an Underground station hit by a small blast, British TV reports said. In a memo to staff at University College hospital, officers asked employees to look for a black or Asian male, 6 feet 2 inches tall, wearing a blue top with a hole in the back and wires protruding from it, Sky News reported.
Somebody's gonna get thumped over an IPod
The British Broadcasting Corp. broadcast a similar report. The hospital, which is near Warren Street station in central London, could not be reached for immediate comment. Earlier, armed police rushed into the hospital, witnesses reported.
Eyewitnesses to two of the four explosions to hit this city's transportation system told of close calls with what could have been would-be bombers running away after dropping backpacks on subway trains.
âWe all got off on the platform and the guy just ran and started running up the escalator,â one witness who gave her name as Andrea told the British Broadcasting Corp. âEveryone was screaming for someone to stop him. He ran past me ... and he ran out of the station. In fact he left a bag on the train,â she said of the incident at Warren Street station in central London. Another witness told Sky News that passengers tried to prevent the man from running away, but failed.
Sky News also reported witnesses seeing a man dump a backpack in a subway car at Oval station, south London, before fleeing as the doors closed.
Witness Ivan McCracken told Sky he smelled smoke and that panicked people rushed into his carriage. âPeople were panicking. But very fortunately the train was only 15 seconds from the station,â McCracken told Sky News.
Hauntingly similar
Thursdayâs incidents were hauntingly similar to the blasts two weeks ago, which involved explosions at three Underground stations simultaneously â quickly followed by a blast on a bus. Those bombings, during the morning rush hour, also occurred in the center of London, hitting the Underground railway from various directions. Thursdayâs incidents, however, were more geographically spread out.
London Ambulance said it was called to the Oval station at 12:38 p.m. and Warren Street at 12:45 p.m. Explosions also went off at Shepherds Bush station in west London and on the No. 26 bus heading toward Hackney, east London. The July 7 attacks, which mostly occurred in central London, began at 8:51 a.m. Closed-circuit TV cameras on Hackney Road showed the bus immobilized at a stop with its signal lights flashing. The area around the bus had been cordoned off. A blast blew out the windows of the bus, but there were no reported injuries.
âThe bus driver heard a bang at the back of the bus. He thought it was probably a vehicle that had hit him,â an unnamed police officer told Reuters. âHe stopped at a nearby bus stop and saw a suspect package at the back of the bus,â the officer said. Services on four Underground lines were suspended following the incidents, London Underground said.
âI was in the carriage and we smelled smoke â it was like something was burning,â said Losiane Mohellavi, 35, who was evacuated at Warren Street. âEveryone was panicked and people were screaming. We had to pull the alarm. I am still shaking,â Mohellavi said.
Followup:
Fox News sez there have been two arrests, one with explosives intacta...
#1
Guy from Jane's speculated if explosives from same source as 2 weeks ago, they could have 'gone off' over last 2 weeks.
Police have apparently caught one of the bombers and another man outside Downing Street who may be connected. Access to Downing Street was closed off years ago.
#5
From a Times report at LGF: He pointed out that police had recovered unused explosives from various sites, including a hire car abandoned by bombers at Luton. Police carried out ten controlled explosions on the hire car in Luton station car park before they placed it on a low-loader and took it away.
âOne speculation Iâve had all along is that they left those explosives in the car for another group to pick up and carry out a second attack, but when they got there the car had already been taken over by the police, so they have had to cobble something together fairly quickly,â he said. I had the same thought. While the police described it explosives. They were likely ready to go bombs.
#6
I haven't seen any remarks to this effect here, but one "terrorism expert" on Fox early today noted that if you mix TATP incorrectly, getting the proportions wrong or improperly prepared, it can burst into flames, rather than explode - and that in 3 of the 4 cases today, the backpacks were reported to have done precisely that. So, perhaps, without their chemist they simply didn't follow instructions and screwed the pooch.
#7
Hey .com, does this Islamo-bumble shoot down the "highly educated" theory of AzCat, who dissed my assertion (on Monday) that some of these guys are just uneducated idiots played by the higher-ups? Or is this as good as "highly educated" suicide bombers get? Wonder what you think. BTW, wasn't playing the "pity card" on the Islamofacists, just remembering all the reports of young, uneducated dumb-asses being set up, and of even educated dumb-asses being set up to suicide bomb unknowingly, by their "superiors."
#8
That's what I've been thinking all day: maybe the "B" team decided to try its hand at this household chemistry business and make another batch of bombs, and screwed up the recipe. Hence, a whole bunch of fizzles.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/21/2005 21:51 Comments ||
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#9
Hmmm. I've been off 'n on, lately, and didn't see or read the tiff about this.
I have no doubt that the typical "cell" of jihadis is as likely a zoo mix as not. The first London / Leeds 4 were somewhat homogenous except for the 30 yr old married guy. I'll bet good money it's usually a zoo -- and I believe in the theory that they (at least 3 of them) did not know they were suiciders - they were drafted.
Who is willing to blow himself up - for any cause? Well, lol, that has to be a combination of very personal tics and flakes, no? 3 or 4 Muzzies who happen to live near each other and go to the same moskkk and socialize might easily agree to do the jihadi thing by placing bombs. That one is easy to see - macho bravado, yadd3. But for those same guys to all also be willing to blow themselves up - no. I'd agree with you.
The odds are that the potential boomers, whether they accept the suicide thing or not, are grouped geographically. Convenience, less suspicious, etc. The plans drawn up by the Traveling Masterminds & Bombmakers may, or may not require suicide. If the plans do call for it, I would guess that they draft suckers where needed.
#10
Lots of people have PhDs in things that have nothing to do with explosives chemistry, or even the ability to follow directions. The first team two weeks ago were not from amongst the ignorant and poverty-stricken, nor even the petty criminal class like the Shoe Bomber idiot. It remains to be seen whether this second bunch could equally afford to take time off for exciting extracurricular activities, but I suspect that their daddies were equally well fed.
#11
Homemade explosives and detonators deteriate quickly. I've just read 'keep in a cool dry place and use within 7 days'. Gotta watch those 'best before' dates.
#12
Interesting.... usually by now, some group, maybe two are claiming "responsibility" of the bombers, proud of what they did.
Am I missing something? Have any of these groups claimed responsibility?
Remembering how our Fallujah Marines broadcasted questions of their manhood to get them to come out and face them. This just has to be one big "weak horse" for the followers.
#15
Lol. Well, I can't think of any other culture that puts less emphasis on the realities of life in their idea of "education". Health, math (beyond individual commerce), science, history, et al -- sacrificed on the altar of memorizing the fucking qu'uran.
They're prepared for absolutely nothing outside of Islam, by Islam.
Army bomb disposal teams are preparing to carry out a controlled blast at a suspected bomb making factory in Leeds. Police began evacuating about 70 houses in the area around Alexandra Grove in Hyde Park on Thursday lunchtime. The flat is believed to be a base used by the London bombers and is one of a number of sites police have been examining in West Yorkshire. West Yorkshire Police have said the operation is being carried out to dispose of a substance found inside.
Must be too unstable to remove safely.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 10:07 ||
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#1
Which particular set of bombers is this related to?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 10:55 Comments ||
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#2
The first group, this is the house the Egyptian chemist rented.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 11:05 Comments ||
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#3
Hafta add one more step to the rental application for apartments (flats): Verify applicant is not a bombmaker.
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/21/2005 11:15 Comments ||
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#4
I think he can write off that security deposit.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 12:05 Comments ||
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#5
Must have discovered some Islam brand Moronium, very, very unstable. They call it Moriah I believe.
Posted by: Have Tongs Will Travel ||
07/21/2005 13:43 Comments ||
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#6
The English need to clean out their backyard and throw those muslims out their country before they over run them or outnumber them and declare sharia the law of the land.
BBC reports:
A number of Tube stations have been evacuated and lines closed after three blasts in what Met Police chief Sir Ian Blair says is a "serious incident". Sir Ian appealed to Londoners to stay where they were and said the transport system was effectively shut down. The minor explosions used detonators only, a BBC reporter said.
In addition, a Number 26 bus in Hackney Road in Bethnal Green had its windows blown out by a blast. There were no injuries.
Large areas around Warren Street, Oval and one of the Shepherd's Bush Tube stations have been cordoned off. One person was injured at Warren Street. There were reports the injured person may have been holding a rucksack containing the detonator.
Lines suspended
Police said armed officers had been deployed to University College Hospital after an incident. The whole of the Northern Line has been suspended, along with the Victoria Line and the Hammersmith and City line. Police have set up cordons round the stations
A number of other stations were closed including Westminster tube station, Waterloo tube station and King's Cross Thameslink. There were also reports that St Paul's tube and Oxford Circus tube station were closed. Tony Blair cancelled events in the afternoon and will be attending a meeting of the Cobra committee along with Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. The BBC's Andrew Winstanley said devices had been found but appeared to have been dummies, containing no explosives.
London Underground went to an amber alert with trains taken to the next station and evacuated. An eyewitness at Oval station said there had been a small bang, and a man had then run off when the Tube reached the station.
A spokesman for Stagecoach said the driver of the number 26 bus travelling through Shoreditch had heard a bang on upper deck, gone upstairs and seen the windows were blown out. The bus driver was very shaken but said to be fine. At Shepherd's Bush Hammersmith and City line station, police told reporters that a man had threatened to blow himself up and then ran off.
Sosiane Mohellavi, 35, was travelling from Oxford Circus to Walthamstow when she was evacuated from a train at Warren Street. "I was in the carriage and we smelt smoke - it was like something was burning.
"Everyone was panicked and people were screaming. We had to pull the alarm. I am still shaking." The BBC's Rory Barnett said there had been no smoke on the platform at Warren St.
Liz Edwards, who works near Warren Street Underground station, said the area was full of activity. "There are police, fire engines and ambulances all around there. A guy from our office had just come back from the station and said the police were aggressively keeping people away from the station and that you could not get anywhere near it."
Almost sounds like copycat operation by wantabe terrorists, not a professional job
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 09:44 ||
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#1
Wantabe or no, terror is terror, as in causing mass panick and fear, etc.
Posted by: Captain America ||
07/21/2005 9:55 Comments ||
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#2
Intent was there, even if the execution failed.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 10:02 Comments ||
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#3
We still have to see what is going on in this hospital...
#5
it would be consistent with many other articles that we have read that they do dummy runs.
When they do dummy runs, it's done without explosives just to get timing down and check security measures. This sounds like someone did a bad job of putting the bombs together.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 11:07 Comments ||
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Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/21/2005 12:22 Comments ||
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#11
Hilarious Bulldog - you ever eat at Rasa Express on the Euston Road? Walked out of the place and there was ethe world and his aunt going down to Warren Street tube. I reckon news got out that they'd got one alive. Even Traffic Wardens were being bused in for a go.. Have been to pub. Strange day.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/21/2005 12:25 Comments ||
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#12
Ah Pubs! Good O. Chin up and all that. Nothing the Royal Flying Corps can't handle.
Posted by: Have Tongs Will Travel ||
07/21/2005 13:46 Comments ||
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#13
Afraid not, Howard. At least, I don't think so. Know the Mason's Arms, Marylebone, pretty well though. There's reputedly a tunnel leading to the old site of the Tyburn Tree in the basement there - would be a good place to take a un-ex-plodeydope for a pint and packet of scratchings before re-enacting one of London's historical spectacles.
#14
Just reminds me of back in the 60's when I was in High School some greaser got ahold of some blasting oil and set it off in a locker. All it did was burn, it never detonated. If they tried the same method that worked with other home brew stuff on AM/Oil they might have wondered why they didn't get an earth shattering KABOOM! only alot of bad smelling smoke.
Posted by: bruce ||
07/21/2005 15:54 Comments ||
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#15
After last week's bombing there was speculation that the bombers might not have known they were doing a suicide mission - that the bombs contained timers and may have been expected to detonate a half-hour later than they did. I don't recall the exact details.
This week, we have a similar attack, but in which the detonators alone exploded. I wonder if maybe the bombers pulled the detonators out to avoid becoming unwilling martyrs? I have no experience w/ explosives, so I don't know if that's possible.
Three London Underground stations were evacuated at midday Thursday following reports of incidents, British Transport Police said. The Fire Brigade was investigating a report of smoke at one station.
Emergency services personnel were also responding to some sort of incident on a bus in the Hackney neighborhood.
A London Underground spokesman said there were no reports of casualties in the incidents.
The Warren Street, Shepherds Bush and Oval stations were evacuated. Emergency services personnel were called to the stations, police said. There were reports of a nail bomb that exploded at Warren Street but those reports have not yet been confirmed.
Some witnesses said they heard gunshots at the Warren Street stop but according to Sky News, police believe those noises were actually detonators going off for bombs that didn't explode.
"People were panicking. But very fortunately the train was only 15 seconds from the station," witness Ivan McCracken told Sky News.
McCracken said he smelled smoke, and people were panicking and coming into his carriage. He said he spoke to an Italian man who was comforting a woman after the evacuation.
"He said that a man was carrying a rucksack and the rucksack suddenly exploded. It was a minor explosion but enough to blow open the rucksack," McCracken said. "The man then made an exclamation as if something had gone wrong. At that point everyone rushed from the carriage."
Services on the Victoria and Northern lines were suspended following reports of a number of incidents, the London Underground said.
"I was in the carriage and we smelled smoke -- it was like something was burning," said Losiane Mohellavi, 35, who was evacuated at Warren Street. "Everyone was panicked and people were screaming. We had to pull the alarm. I am still shaking."
The reports came exactly two weeks to the day that four homicide bombers attacked three subway stations and a double-decker bus in London, killing 52 others.
Simon Marks, president and chief correspondent for Feature Story News, was reporting from the Warren Street Underground station for FOX News. He said the area was cordoned off as dozens of fire trucks and emergency vehicles were arriving.
"I think this looks like much more than a false alarm at this point," Marks told FOX News.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
I'm hearing on the TV, nail bombs, UK cops in chemical suits going into the subway, double decker explosion, witness saying man with back pack explodes, we'll see by the end of the day.
#1
Here's an excerpt from the Debka story referenced above:
Gunshots heard on platform at Warren Street after commuter reported an exploding rucksack in the hands of a young man and smoke.
How much of an explosion was it? How close were the witnesses that called it in? Did the young man in question die on the spot or get beaten to a pulp? These are the questions I have.
#2
Was outside Warren Street when it kicked off - came out of a curry house to realise I was in the roped off bit. LOL. Doesn't look as serious as the other morning.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/21/2005 9:03 Comments ||
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#9
@Laurence of the Rats ...Authorities are saying they are looking at incidents at that hospital.....inhabitants of London are instructed to stay where they are......
#11
smaller bombs this time - police confirmed explosions on 3 subways, 1 bus. 2 week anniversary
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/21/2005 9:41 Comments ||
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#12
So, when it is uncovered that Islamic bomber are the cause, when will we see the "moderate" muslems denoucing the bombings?
Just like the last two weeks, every such statement will be carefully crafted to exclude future attacks in London and all attacks in Iraq and Israel.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 9:41 Comments ||
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#13
hospital update - the front is sealed off, but sounds like preparation to prioritize/treat wounded, not a crime/terror scene according to a reporter.
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/21/2005 9:46 Comments ||
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#14
that a man was carrying a rucksack and the rucksack suddenly exploded. It was a minor explosion but enough to blow open the rucksack," McCracken said. "The man then made an exclamation as if something had gone wrong. At that point everyone rushed from the carriage."
Something like, "Oh Shit! ... Um... Allah Ackbar!"
#17
What is the hazmat stuff about.... Standard procedure, or suspicion of something ominous?
Paleoswinian bombers like to lace their bombs with nails and rat poison. Could just be a precaution in regards to that.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 10:23 Comments ||
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#18
FOX reported that the hospital was entered by a SWAT team with flak jackets and weapons, not batons, and that it was where the previous victims of 7/7 were taken. Also said the chem/bio suits are standard procedure but urging everyone to stay where they were.
#19
Thanks RC.... Now KFI Handel says he sees someone arrested at 10 Downing St (watching Fox)...
These Jihadishitz are really anxious for those virgins ...
There may be no "death penalty" in Britian, but I imagine the shipment has arrived from Victoria's Secret at the prison, and there will be no cameras of the arrested ones providing a fashion show for the questioners...
#20
Bravo John Howard! He is just absolutely throwing down on the BBC reporter who is trying to blame British foreign policy, "No government I lead will ever have it's policies determined by terrorists or terrorist threats. No self-respecting government of any stripe will have its policies determined by terrorists or their threats."
And in response to the reporter's assertion that it's all due to British involvement in Iraq, "I remind you that the attack in Bali and 9/11 occurred before Iraq."
Good thing he was there to hold Blair's hand, Blair just wasn't nearly as strong.
#21
if something don't seem right, then it probably isn't right. Its true that speculation is no substitute for the facts, but I have a gut feeling that replicating the Islamonazi attack two weeks prior but on a near-botched level may well be the work of either amateur Islamonazis, foreign agents with a hidden agenda, home boyz stirring the pot up with racial or anarchist motives, or the improbable but possible actions of false-flag strikes. Whatever the motive, cause or who the perpetrators are... it is a sick world or depraved and selfish people who hate others more than they love God or their loved ones to committ to these cowardly acts.
#22
Comment #17 (Robert Crawford) brings out the point about Paleos lacing their boom belts with poison and shrapnel. They also have sent out people with serious diseases and the flesh and bones serve as further shrapnel with a biowarfare chaser. I read a paper on how the Israeli medical people deal with these attacks. Pretty heavy stuff.
You cannot treat terrorists solely as a criminal matter. Britain has a serious infestation of them. They will hide among the Moderate Muslimsâ¢. We in the US have the same problem, only smaller numbers. We better act on the British experience. It will be up to the people to get the politicians off their collective asses; there is always the vigilante route, a very ugly last resort.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/21/2005 11:57 Comments ||
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#23
Agree with your assessment of the press conference, AzCat.
Blair was incredibly weak. Thank God for John Howard. His specific references to Bin Laden's threats and complaints against Australia --in relation to the liberation of East Timor-- was perfect. And the rhetoric was good too... should we not have gone to East Timor? should we not have gone to Afghanistan? he's the better of US-UK-AUS leaders: knows the difference between good and evil, convincing speaker with the ability to think on his feet and crush idiotarians.
#24
"We in the US have the same problem, only smaller numbers."
I disagree. I believe that it is the fear of regular Americans retaliating against the ordinary muslim here that stops them from doing what they are doing in London. Although there is a large segment of the population that is of the idiotarian persuation, there is a much larger one that will be willing to teach muslims here a lesson. If the "radicals" were to try the suicide thing here, they would find themselves cut off from their muslim surroundings, not due to their brothersâ repulsion of their acts, but rather for the latterâs desire to survive.
#25
Just heard this theory (Roe Conn, WLS-AM, Chicago): the explosives they attempted to use were sold as part of a sting, hence the lack of any really large explosion and the extreme "WTF?!" reaction from the would-be suicide bombers.
4 relative duds on the same day? I suppose that could explain it. Either that or it was extreme incompetance on the part of this round's bombmaker.
#26
the explosives they attempted to use were sold as part of a sting, hence the lack of any really large explosion and the extreme "WTF?!" reaction from the would-be suicide bombers
If so, then the police should be ashamed for not arresting them at the time of purchase. At least one person was severely hurt in the panic after the failure.
Dud is still the least complicated theory.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 15:37 Comments ||
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#27
Occam's Razor
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/21/2005 16:40 Comments ||
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#28
I disagree. I believe that it is the fear of regular Americans retaliating against the ordinary muslim here that stops them from doing what they are doing in London.
That's an interesting theory. If terrorist acts are supported, furthered, and carried out by the oft-alleged small minority of Muslims your reasoning wouldn't hold water as the small radical minority is ulikely to give the proverbial rat's ass what happens to the apostates that don't support their view of the true faith. If, on the other hand, a significant portion of Muslims support the alleged radical minority the community would be in a position to influence the alleged minority in this manner.
Personally I think the explanation is somewhat simpler: we simply don't yet have the requisite critical mass of Muslims to support homegrown Islamist terrorism. But as we accept more and more Muslims into the US and as insular Muslim communities grow here we'll eventually see just such a trend because wherever the faith spreads the alleged radical minority follows.
#29
I tend to agree with TMH. If I am correct and suicide bombers believe they are protecting muslims, then the expected reaction is critical. They could reasonably expect concessions in the UK and retaliation in the USA.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 8:42 Comments ||
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#7
something about a nail gun and shooting so far - smoke seen coming from train, police everywhere, lets hope they catch some fcker.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
07/21/2005 8:42 Comments ||
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#8
FOX: No casualities reported yet, Rooters sez nail bomb exploded in station, 3 stations evacuated, emerg services responding to bus "incident", now one injury reported Warren Station.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 8:45 Comments ||
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#9
Buildings Evacuated Near London's Oval SKY News
#10
Warren Street Station, one nail bomb, one injury reported, lots of cops, few ambulances. Oval, Warren St, Shepards Bush station evacuated. Windows blown out Hackney St bus, no reported injuries.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 8:49 Comments ||
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#11
Bennet: "Looks like somebody tried again."
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 8:50 Comments ||
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#12
Simon Marks, president and chief correspondent for Feature Story News, was reporting from the Warren Street Underground station for FOX News. He said the area was cordoned off as dozens of fire trucks and emergency vehicles were arriving.
"I think this looks like much more than a false alarm at this point," Marks told FOX News.
#13
Stagecoach spokesman (Bus company) reports blast on second floor of bus, no casualities.
Witness reports seeing person run onto subway with backpack, then run away before blast. Police say not major incident, bombs if thats what they are seem very small.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 8:57 Comments ||
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#14
Police say not major incident
And yet I think the response should be, bluntly, brutal, quick, and broad.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 8:59 Comments ||
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#15
And yet I think the response should be, bluntly, brutal, quick, and broad.
I'm beginning to wonder if any of our leaders would have the backbone to that even after a true WMD attack on a western city.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
07/21/2005 9:01 Comments ||
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#16
BBC; Dummy explosions with detonators only on subway. Maybe they mean dummy explosives, dentonators being real?
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 9:05 Comments ||
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#17
Police Cordon Off London's UCH Hospital Reuters sayzzz
#20
Early reports: Arrest at University College Hospital, police seen chasing man down Tottenham Road. One injury at Warren Street subway.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 9:31 Comments ||
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#21
Londo police commisioner confirms 4 explosions, 3 subways and one bus. Seems all were small, detonators but no main charge went off.
Maybe a bad batch of explosives, or bad construction? Might had been put together by a third stringer after the egyptian chemist skipped town?
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 9:36 Comments ||
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#22
Just heard this from Sky News
An eye-witness saw a man with a rucksack standing next to a woman with a baby on the tube. There was an explosion (it seems that only the detonator went off). He then tried to run for it and three or four passengers chased after him, but they couldn't catch him. The baby then started bawling. No idea as to whether the woman was with the man.
There's also a report of a small explosion on the top of a bus - again, possibly a detonator. Police have sealed off that area.
Latest from Scotland Yard: No trace of chemical agents at Oval station.
Thankfully, not looking like there are major casualties, and it looks like we might get one of the bastards.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/21/2005 9:39 Comments ||
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#23
Police commissioner: Four explosions, Number 26 bus at Hackney, Warren Street, Oval and Sheppards Bush subway station. Minor injuries only, Hazmat crew checked Warren st, no chem attack. Small bombs, maybe only detonators, seem to be crude. Possible nail bomb Warren St.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 9:44 Comments ||
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#24
An eye-witness saw a man with a rucksack standing next to a woman with a baby on the tube.
Brave, brave jihadi.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 9:45 Comments ||
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#25
More eye-witness report;
The guy that was running, being chased by people from the station (including the flower seller - geddin!) described as a skinny asian with a small beard. Apparently, this guy said:
"What's wrong with these people"
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/21/2005 9:52 Comments ||
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#26
One witness on ABC News (US) described an Asian (i.e. Pakistani) man of 17-18 years as the one running from the explosion scene.
Posted by: ed ||
07/21/2005 9:54 Comments ||
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#27
Quite RC...quite.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/21/2005 9:54 Comments ||
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#28
Well, nice to see all the outreach to the Islamic community worked out.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 9:55 Comments ||
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#29
Beeb TV is digging an ever-larger hole for themselves. Their man on the scene at Warren Street described, "A witness said there was a small explosion but we don't know that there was actually an explosion." Terrorists aren't terrorists and now explosions aren't explosions? Sheesh!
#30
Jonah Goldberg (in London with his wife and daughter):
"ARMED OFFICERS [Jonah Goldberg]
Confirmed at University College Hospital. Apparently they're chasing a male, black, with wires protruding from sort of device."
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 10:00 Comments ||
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#31
From the Corner (J. Goldberg is in London on vacation):
"Confirmed at University College Hospital. Apparently they're chasing a male, black, with wires protruding from sort of device."
One black suspect, one Asian (could be Pino, Indonesian, Thai?). This could be a very incompetent aQ redo, with a ethnically diverse Islamic crew to slip under the radar.
#32
Apparently police are armed at University College Hospital (major incident apparently) - some talk about a 6'2" black or asian man with a blue top, with a hole in the back and wires coming out of it - bit garbled at the moment, it seems like the bloke is in the hospital. Talk about a suspected suicide bomber.
I'm getting this from Sky News - I refuse to watch the Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/21/2005 10:03 Comments ||
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#33
London cops looking for 6 foot male, young, black or asian, blue top with hole in it with wires coming out of it. Fox is showing cops searching a guy who fits description, now talking to him. They don't seem too concerned, don't think its the guy.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 10:04 Comments ||
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#34
Maybe I should learn to type faster.
This site is gathering pertinent info better than any I can find currently. Thanks
#35
bit garbled at the moment, it seems like the bloke is in the hospital. Talk about a suspected suicide bomber.
Speculation: They tried something like this in Iraq. Attack to cause casualties, then a suicide bomber at the hospital.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 10:05 Comments ||
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#36
All these small dud-like explosions seem hard to figure. I hope that it is not intentional, like breaking open containers containing something that will not show up for a day or two.
Granted it does not seem likely but still I find the whole thing a bit odd.
Posted by: Michael ||
07/21/2005 10:06 Comments ||
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#37
One black suspect, one Asian (could be Pino, Indonesian, Thai?). This could be a very incompetent aQ redo, with a ethnically diverse Islamic crew to slip under the radar.
Asian is Brit-speak for pretty much anyone from east of the Med. I'd think Pakistani.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 10:07 Comments ||
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#38
Beeb says they've swept Warren St. Station for chem/bio weapons and found nothing. Bad batch of homebrew explosives perhaps?
#39
All these small dud-like explosions seem hard to figure. I hope that it is not intentional, like breaking open containers containing something that will not show up for a day or two.
Yikes. I think I'd prefer the incompetant wannabe's screwing up their attack.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
07/21/2005 10:09 Comments ||
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#40
He then tried to run for it and three or four passengers chased after him, but they couldn't catch him.
#41
There's a copper at the end of Downing Street just been pointing a rather nasty Hechler and Koch at a bloke. They've just taken him away with his shirt open. Probably nothing, but they're obviously not taking any chances.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/21/2005 10:18 Comments ||
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#42
The authorities are talking about "attempted explosions"...so this could indicate that the bombs dit not work.....BBC now reports about an arrest
#43
Asian is Brit-speak for pretty much anyone from east of the Med
Thanks, didn't realize that.
I'm hoping for imcompetence over something more coniving. A stray thought, there's always a slight chance that this is some sort of street protest by some idiot group of lefties. The animal rights groups over there have been blowing up people's cars for years, wouldn't put it past them to try and show some confused solidarity with the Islamists.
#44
Speculation: They tried something like this in Iraq. Attack to cause casualties, then a suicide bomber at the hospital.
Good God RC, I hope not - if that happens, I think this place might go mental.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/21/2005 10:20 Comments ||
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#45
I'm hoping for imcompetence over something more coniving.
Incompetence in an attempt at murder is not comforting.
A stray thought, there's always a slight chance that this is some sort of street protest by some idiot group of lefties.
Possible, but descriptions of the suspects make that unlikely.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 10:21 Comments ||
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#46
Story so far, nothing on the hospital chase(?), though the police deployment is mentioned.
http://www.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/
the_north_east/news/NEWS0.html
"More bomb blasts in London
Four bombs were planted and at least two have exploded on London transport this afternoon. One person is reported injured in the attacks that are being described by police as "smaller than before".
A nail bomb exploded on a Tube train at Warren Street, where eye witnesses also reported seeing a young Asian man dump a rucksack and run from the scene.
A second bomb exploded on the top deck of the No.26 bus on Colombia Road in Bethnal Green.
Police have also reported bombs at Oval and above ground at one of the Shepherds Bush stations, which have been evacuated and cordoned off.
Armed police and dogs have been deployed at University College Hospital, near Warren Street.
Police are investigating the possibility that the injured person at Warren Street might have planted the bomb.
Though the No.26 bus had its upper deck windows blown out, no one was hurt.
A "Code Amber" alert has been declared on the Underground, however the majority of lines are still running.
London Underground (LU) has suspended the Victoria, Northern and Hammermith and City lines.
Westminster and Waterloo Tube stations were also closed.
Early witness reports maintained that shots had been fired, though the possibility is being investigated that these were exploding detonators that failed to set off their bombs.
Emergency services have been sent to all three Tube stations and the bus scene, Scotland Yard said.
Eye witnesses at Warren Street are reporting seeing the explosion itself, and others that a young Asian man was actually pursued out of the station.
Brief scenes of panic erupted as travellers poured onto the street.
The London Amublance Service (LAS) reported sending four three ambulances to The Oval at 12.38pm, and five to Warren Street at 12.45pm.
The Prime Minister has cancelled an afternoon engagement and the government's COBRA emergency group is meeting.
Read more about this story at www.thisislocallondon.co.uk."
#47
Incompetence in an attempt at murder is not comforting.
Indeed, didn't mean to indicate that it was. But an incompetent failure at explosions is better than a competent bio attack meant to look like incompetent explosions. Bad over worse only, no pure good to be found in this shit.
Howard (paraphrased): No government of mine will ever bow to terrorism. 88 Australians killed in Bali before Iraq, 9/11 happened before Iraq and Bin Laden first mentioned getting at Australia when Australia had liberated East Timor. It's about hatred of a way of life.
Blair: The people responsible for terrorism are the terrorists
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/21/2005 10:57 Comments ||
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#49
no pure good to be found
Perhaps not. It's very early, but something like this might suggest:
1. The jihadi bench is not very deep.
2. British investigations of the previous attack may be so effective that today's attackers figured, "Use it or lose it."
3. The evidence from today will lead the Brits to even more jihadi cells and (hopefully) at a minimal cost in lives.
#50
Dreadnought, I think it infinitely more likely that this is just a screw-up. Duds happen in Iraq and Israel, too, so why wouldn't they happen in London?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 11:04 Comments ||
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#51
Armed police have arrested a man at gunpoint near the entrance to Downing Street.
The suspect, of Asian origin, was led away in handcuffs as a police officer trained his MP5 sub-machine gun on him.
The man appeared to be naked underneath his jacket.
#52
I just watched the press conference. Howard is GREAT. Better than Blair. Loved how he eviscerated the journalist who tried to blame the coalition for liberating Afghanistan and Iraq.
It was on CNN, so Amanpour(spit) quickly got on the screen and screamed that of course terrorism IS our fault and we should never have gone to Iraq! Had to switch it off. F*** CNN.
Which is exactly why it's indicative of the quality of the jihadi. In Iraq, there's a long conveyor belt of terrorists from Syria. You set up 50 IEDs and some of them are bound to fail.
But when you're operating in enemy territory (or should we call the UK semi-enemy territory?), any time you run an operation, you, as the planner, must assume that the police will walk the cat back and roll up your entire operation. Four duds (if that is what they really are) isn't just an Oops!; it's a sign of organizational degradation. I've been reading about terrorist organizations in Czarist Russia (People's Will, Socialist Revolutionaries, etc.), and the hardest man to replace was the bomb-maker. Inexperienced bomb-makers were a hazard to themselves and in several cases left an assassin with the unpleasant experience of heaving a bomb at the target and having nothing happen.
Also, from a forensic standpoint, my other point still stands. An unexploded (or partially so) weapon provides a ton of information, which will bring down yet another cell. All in all, a bad day for Jihad, Inc.
#55
Did any "moderate" UK Moslems denounce this new plot yesterday, finger the Islamofascists involved yesterday, and go on public record to oppose jihad (any day)?
Just asking... wondering when the "moderate" Moslem is going to show up.
#56
RE #55 - she was on the train. From Sky News -
Sofiane Mohellebi, a French Muslim who was also on the train, said: "There was a smell like wires or tyres, but it wasn't the train making the burning smell. There was no noise. People were screaming and panicking but we managed to get off the train."
Analysis: This proves the Joos did it.
How, you ask? Well, if the Lions if Islam had done it, they woulda got all their brothers and sisters off the train first - like the Jooos got all of their people out of the WTC on 9/11. And if we didn't get all our folks out of harms way, then we would be not-as-smart as the Jooos...waitaminute...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/21/2005 12:51 Comments ||
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#59
You're really pathetic, liberalhawk. Do you think one's ideas are determined by biological state? is that the best you have to offer in terms of "moderate" Moslems?
Was she a "moderate" just because she died in a terrorist attack? or do you have evidence that she campaigned in public against Islamofascism, taqiya, jihad and sharia?
#60
Think we need a Tax on all worshipers of Allan, this tax would cover all of the extra security measures that the british people need,including some of their own kind.I want to see billions spent on anti terrorist stuff,humint-sigint,guns,cruise missles,fckin AT AT walkers and i want to see it all funded by the Muslim tax payer,fair enough we'll still pay for the army and airforce and coastgaurd and such but anti terror money comes straight outa thier pockets,if not we should send the D-9's into all of the Uk's spired ammo dumps,mosque that is. Angry.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
07/21/2005 12:58 Comments ||
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#61
"One moderate muslim woman showed up dead on the tube two weeks ago."
Only someone thick would say something like this and at a time like this!
The IslamoNazis are probably "glad" for that reason that they killed her, along with the other innocents.
"Moderate" Muslims are always the first to go along with we other kaffir and infidels because they're "collaborating" with the infidels.
Tony, Shep, Howard and Bulldog, you guys take care of yourselves!
We love our English friends and it's very distressing to see London as the target again today.
(Although the good news is that the bad guys' bombs didn't go off. Hooray!)
I'm glad that John Howard was there to give Tony Blair a pep talk on not bowing to terrorism.
Stay safe and alive, Britain--we are with you!
#62
one moderate muslim woman showed up dead on the tube two weeks ago.
And her being murdered proves her moderation... how, exactly?
I'm not saying I know her politics -- just that you don't, either. That you're so desperate to cling to the idea of the moderates that you're willing to make shit up.
Why didn't the moderates -- who, we're told, make up the vast majority -- notice something odd about this latest crew and turn them in? One report is claiming the latest bombs are identical in design to the last ones, meaning THEY HAD A BATHTUB FULL OF CHEMICALS TO BREW UP THE EXPLOSIVES. After the last one, someone connected the mixing of the bombs to the odd smells and death of the bushes at the mixing site. If the bombs are the same design in this case, surely the same mixing took place -- why didn't anyone notice?
If the vast majority are moderates, the radicals should stand out like sore thumbs, and the moderates should have no problem identifying them. Yet they don't identify them -- is it because they don't stand out, or they don't have a problem with them?
Don't give me the excuses about fear of the Islamists, or worrying about a backlash. We're long past that. FAILURE to act will bring the backlash.
And, honestly, I can't say it won't be deserved.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 13:21 Comments ||
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#63
Thanks Jen - I got an update from family in London and they're obviously ok.
We always knew there would be more attacks after 7/7, and this time it looks like we were lucky. There will be more attacks, and in some of those, we won't be lucky.
They're not going to win - all that is going to happen is that the line that should not be crossed gets closer.
And then, this will happen. And then things will get nasty.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/21/2005 13:33 Comments ||
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#64
"just asking... wondering when the "moderate" Moslem is going to show up."
"one moderate muslim woman showed up dead on the tube two weeks ago."
The more I think about this little exchange, the less sense it makes, into the negative region even.
Why the knee jerk--to the point of inanity--defense of the Musselmen at the slightest provocation?
The IslamoNutters clearly don't care who they kill or whether they kill fellow Muslims.
In fact, if they're are Muslim victims like Ms. Islam, it actually gives them cover (for a while) that Muslims couldn't possibly have done it or that they're to be doled out sympathy along with the other victims' "groups" which is precisely what our site apologist is trying to do.
#65
Why the knee jerk--to the point of inanity--defense of the Musselmen at the slightest provocation?
Because the Left sees the current "troubles" as aimed at bringing down governments they don't like (ie, Bush). They don't look past this, as the Left's desire to return to power exceeds all other considerations.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
07/21/2005 13:44 Comments ||
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#66
"Do you think one's ideas are determined by biological state? is that the best you have to offer in terms of "moderate" Moslems?
Was she a "moderate" just because she died in a terrorist attack? "
No, i read an article about her, she seemed like someone moderate. Sorry dont have a link, and the article was short.
"or do you have evidence that she campaigned in public against Islamofascism, taqiya, jihad and sharia?"
I doubt she campaigned for or against anything. Most folks arent activists. Your hurdle for being a moderate is higher than mine is.
#69
"Why the knee jerk--to the point of inanity--defense of the Musselmen at the slightest provocation?"
why the knee jerk response to what i post?
Look, somebody asked a question. I answered it. You dont want somebody to defend moderate muslims, dont ask where they are. You ask something, you gotta expect somebody might answer it.
RC - Why didnt they smell the chemicals? I dont know. Maybe that particular neighborhood in Leeds all the muslims ARE supportive of terror. Maybe the terrs picked that neighborhood for that reason. Maybe they hid the smell better. I dont know and neither do you. I dont see how you can jump from that to the conclusion that there are NO moderate muslims in Britain.
I will defer here to Tony Blair, who actually has reports from Scotland Yard, etc on what is going in the muslim communities of Britain.
IF the MMMs (mythical moderate Moslem) were indeed prevalent, it wouldn't be so hard to point them out. Instead you resort to claiming a corpse and holding it up as your imaginary friend.
Your difficulty is that a Moslem opposed to jihad by the sword would have to be a RADICAL. Regular Moslems are an orthodox majority, meaning that they support taqiya, jihad and sharia. Islamofascists are merely implementing the orthodox beliefs of most Moslems, AS HAS BEEN AMPLY DOCUMENTED in e.g. surveys of world-wide Moslem support for Bin Laden.
MMMs are mythical because we hear about them in the MSM and from modern-liberals like you -- but we never see them in action. So the best you have to offer is to appropriate someone who's dead, and you do that just because she happens to have been killed by Islamofascists.
When the moderates appear in large enough numbers to have an impact on the war, let me know. I suspect it will be long after I'm dead, though.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 14:32 Comments ||
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#72
While I have no intention of defending LH's words, I have to agree with his underlying point re: the overly high standard for "non-activist" Muslims.
There are several simultaneous arguments going on here. Let's not lump them into one.
1. Islam is a hate ideology that needs to be dealt with as such. The madrassas and the mosques preaching hate need to be shut down. We also need to identify those followers who have already drank the kool-aid and are spreading the disease. We need to cut off the flow of the Saudi funding.
2. That non-activist muslims need to do more to help root out the bad apples in their midst. Absolutely. They will be the ultimate victims if they do not.
3. That the ordinary person born into the Muslim faith is to blame for these attacks
I will again point to our own sad history in the south to make a parallel that is very realistic. Whites who did not condone slavery, and later racism, were forced into keeping quiet through many means - the threat of outright violence, and the softer more venomous use of the term "ni%$^r lover". And of course there was the fact that whites were born into the culture where it was Ok to enslave the blacks and they believed it to be true. I don't underacknowledge the danger we face from that last point.
I do acknowledge the danger of beliefs but IMHO, there is a vast chasm between those who assist terrorists by their inaction v/s those that actually assisted or openly supported hanging someone from a tree.
Non-activist muslims need to speak up. They need to help root out the bad guys. They need to help tell the authorities who is preaching hate in the mosques. If they don't they are a very bad spot that is only going to get worse, far worse, as this war continues.
They only need look to our own civil war to see just how dire the cosequences can be if they don't find a way of integrating into their host democratic societies.
"Moderates surely represent the overwhelming majority of Muslims in Europe, but like their post-Christian European counterparts, they usually express their moderation in detachment from religious affairs.
Though Europeans often fail to see it, the secularization of the Muslims living in their midst has been, by and large, a great success. It explains why Muslim activists gain so much attention, be they arch-conservatives, like the devotees of the Tabligh movement in Britain and on the continent who espouse segregation in Europe, or "progressives," like the Switzerland-based intellectual Tariq Ramadan, who refuses forthrightly to declare the Muslim Holy Law null and void as a political testament for Muslims in a European democracy. The moderates have abandoned the field. They have become European. The militants, who perhaps should be seen as deviants from a largely successful process of secularization, are the only ones left ardently praying."
#74
"IF the MMMs (mythical moderate Moslem) were indeed prevalent, it wouldn't be so hard to point them out. Instead you resort to claiming a corpse and holding it up as your imaginary friend.
Your difficulty is that a Moslem opposed to jihad by the sword would have to be a RADICAL. Regular Moslems are an orthodox majority, meaning that they support taqiya, jihad and sharia. Islamofascists are merely implementing the orthodox beliefs of most Moslems, AS HAS BEEN AMPLY DOCUMENTED in e.g. surveys of world-wide Moslem support for Bin Laden.
MMMs are mythical because we hear about them in the MSM and from modern-liberals like you -- but we never see them in action. So the best you have to offer is to appropriate someone who's dead, and you do that just because she happens to have been killed by Islamofascists."
I didnt say they were prevalent (though Gerecht does). Not prevelant doesnt mean non-existent. Or even unimportant.
as for surveys, the latest ones ive seen show support for OBL going down. And significant numbers who never supported him.
There are 2 billion muslims. If 10% oppose OBL, thats 200 million human beings.
We never see them in action? What actions do you want to see? You want to see them going around and lynching radical muslims? Maybe theyre uncomfortable with lynching. Maybe they want to leave this to the police. They makes statements, but thats tossed out as takiya. Some probably work with the police, but thats naturally something that isnt public (and when they do work for LE as translators,etc all some folks are interested in are the few who betray)
Somebody asked why the knee jerk response. For the sake of the WOT, of course. Al Qaeeda wants to turn this into a war of civilizations. They are NOT content that moderate muslims quietly live their lives, and arent activists. THEY want them to support AQ, actively, which they dont. Few things serve AQ better than stirring up indiscriminate anti-muslims hatred in the west. So y'all are objectively pro-AQ when you try to stir this up.
#75
I'm wondering if there are not some parallels here between the MMM and the KKK a few years back. Were there any "moderates" in the south who detested lynchings? Did they rise up and identify the guys hiding under the white sheets?
Were all the police in agreement with the KKK, or were some in fear of the KKK? How many mythical southern liberals wanted to do something, but didn't know where to start?
Then the Feds came in after the murders of civil rights workers and LBJ (a southerner) had had enuff.
How did Capone's gang get by in Chicago? No one pointed out Dillinger, the Feds got him, and not for racketeering, either.
Who takes the high ground in Sicily about the um... bad-guy families? Do we see those in the press? Isn't there a French judge with a reputation for fighting terrorists. (I know, but he is obviously the exception to the rule!)
Why didn't mythical moderate Germans stand up to Hitler? Ask Rommel. He at least was given the choice of suicide when his name came up.
Why did the Christians, Mulims, and (whoever the other group was - Orthodox?) wait until Tito died to break up Yugoslovia? Strong central control? Do we wanna be like Tito's Yugoslovia?
There have been some examples here of minor, moderate expressions of concern by various Muslim groups, but even then there are complaints of too little, too late, and it must be a lie anyway.
It seems 2b and I overlapped a bit.
Consider this: When somebody does turn in OBL, will he/she appear on the front page of the New York Times? Somebody did rat out Saddam, and I hope he or she is still alive.
Phil made good points too. I hope we do not have to become the enemy to defeat him!
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/21/2005 15:00 Comments ||
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#76
2b: Non-activist muslims need to speak up. They need to help root out the bad guys. They need to help tell the authorities who is preaching hate in the mosques. If they don't they are a very bad spot that is only going to get worse, far worse, as this war continues.
This is mostly what I've said, only I believe they shouldn't just tell the authorities, but also the general population. We have a right to know of the danger in our midst, and if the Muslims themselves aired out their dirt, it would go a hell of a long way towards establishing trust.
But, personally, my patience is wearing thin. Yesterday, had you asked, I would have said, "six more months, and if there's nothing from the moderates, we *have* to start asking them -- and ourselves -- questions that are damned unpleasant". Today, after *this* bombing, I can't support that much time.
It's been four years since 9/11. Two and a half since Bali. Three since the Moscow Theater. Almost a year since Beslan. The Islamists target children, intentionally, every day in Iraq. God knows the entire world has been made aware of the danger, what the Islamists are willing to do.
Yet the people in the best position to expose the danger, to root it out, are not merely silent, but obstructive.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 15:00 Comments ||
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#77
you know LH..you've made a good point. But your words about the dead muslim woman were just freaking inflamatory and plain wrong. Admit it so we can move on.
#78
what exactly is inflammatory about pointing out that a muslim woman died?
Are you saying im inflaming people against the salafi jihadis, who blood thirst is directed against muslims too? If so, then so be it.
Heres something interesting - hattip, gateway pundit, via instapundit
"George Bush the Prophet? When peace activists in Pakistan start pushing the "Bush Doctrine" it makes you wonder?
(Lahore, Pakistan) Noted religious and political figures gathered to call for fostering unity, patience and harmony between the West and Islam. They were addressing a seminar on "A Critical moment, inter-religious dialogue" held here (Lahore) Sunday under the aegis of Muslim-Christian Federation International. Secretary General, Pakistan Peoples Party Parliamentarian, Jehangir Badar on the occasion said that:
"...democracy could ensure global peace..."
and added that the terrorism was spreading due to misunderstanding among religions.
....
And, after the London attacks, the global anti-terrorism voices have possibly gained in numbers and strength. There have been several peace rallies held by interfaith groups. One group calling itself the Muslim Christian Federation International held a rally against terror in Lahore, Pakistan this week.
A group calling itself the "Muslim Christian Federation International" rallied in Lahore, Pakistan to condemn recent suicide bombings in London, Wednesday, July 20, 2005. The sign at the bottom reads, "We condemn London bombings!" (AP)
#79
There is a small enclave of muslims here where I live and for the most part are very secular. Their children listen to contemporary music, attend the public schools, and you rarely see the women and girls in hajib. That having been said, I wonder how complete their secularism is. If they go to an "Islamic Conference" and "see the error of their ways" and become the most ardent defender of the "Book of Hate and Murder" what will happen? I've seen the same phenomenon in Christian communities. Someone is a complete "backslider" and is totally immersed in "sin", a particular Preacher hits the right strings and they become fanatical in their desire to "spread the holy word of God" and are the most pious members of the church. The difference, of course, is they don't become mobile self-demolition experts.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/21/2005 15:09 Comments ||
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#80
I agree with you Robert. And as of this last week, I have felt that we have passed a thresh-hold and it has become clear that this war is going to get far more bloody and ruthless before it gets better. I'm saddened by that. I also think you are right that time is not on the side of the ordinary Muslim of doing what needs to be done. But it's not just Muslims we should be blaming. What about our own apologist liberals? Thanks to them, we can't take the necessary steps to simply close down the mosques, deport, and imprison to squelch this with minimal violence. Our liberals have as lethal of an ideology as do the Muslims. One need only look to the millions of dead they are responsible for facilitating through appeasment and a refusal to take actions to confront evil forcefully.
People are born into a faith. It is unrealistic to think they are going to drop it and walk away. Just like in the south all whites weren't evil. Let's keep the focus on the bad guys and encourage the better nature of those who just want to live in peace.
#82
"People are born into a faith. It is unrealistic to think they are going to drop it and walk away."
Most muslims werent born into Wahabi Islam. Its so widespread because of a sustained campaign of propaganda, of taking over mosques and muslim institutions etc.
#83
"If they go to an "Islamic Conference" and "see the error of their ways" and become the most ardent defender of the "Book of Hate and Murder" what will happen?"
And we stop that from happening by telling them that the extremists are RIGHT, that thats the only authentic form of Islam?
#84
they go to an "Islamic Conference" and "see the error of their ways"
This is what we need to confront. And yet, thanks to those who refuse to take these smaller steps, in the name of multi-culturalism or whatever you want to call it - we can't do it. The result will be blood spilt, maybe yours or mine, in the quest to be "fair" or to uphold "higher ideals". That is, IMHO, the liberal legacy. A refusal to act - a willingness to ignore bad behavior and allow it to get out of control. An absolute refusal to see that you can't tolerate hate or murder under the banner of "undertanding root causes". bleah.
#85
heres another moderate muslim - perhaps posting this is inflammatory. Im sure the mullahs think so. May they be damned.
"Ganji Is Near Death in Iranian Prison, a Dissident Reports
BY ELI LAKE - Staff Reporter of the Sun
July 18, 2005
WASHINGTON - Akbar Ganji's 36-day hunger strike has nearly cost the Iranian dissident his life, according to a writer recently released from the Tehran prison that holds Mr. Ganji, whom President Bush and European Union leaders have demanded the mullahs set free.
In a telephone interview from Tehran, a former political prisoner who was released temporarily from Evin prison at the end of June, Amir Abbas Fakhravar, told The New York Sun that Mr. Ganji's kidneys had failed and that he was seen yesterday by two fellow inmates in Evin's hospital wing laying unconscious on a floor as two guards tried to prop him up.
"I received word this afternoon from two inmates who saw Akbar Ganji in the prison hospital and was not moving at all. Two guards were trying to get him to walk, but he was unconscious, lying on the ground and not able to walk," Mr. Fakhravar said. "He is on the verge of dying.""
#86
"What about our own apologist liberals? Thanks to them, we can't take the necessary steps to simply close down the mosques, deport, and imprison to squelch this with minimal violence. Our liberals have as lethal of an ideology as do the Muslims"
Close down WHICH mosques? Im all for closing down those mosques and deporting those imams, that have incited terror. Hell, the French have deported a bunch of imams. Blair has been more cautious - closing only finsbury park, and deporting Abu Hamza, and taking far too long to do that. But hes moving faster now, and even the Lib Dems seem to be supporting it.
If youre talking about closing ALL mosques, that I have a problem with. And no, its not just liberals, or just Democrats, who stand with me on that.
#87
will you quit? Jeesh. You've made your point. There are muslims who want to live in peace. Billions of them. So what? Is that going to stop this war? Is that going to keep it from escalating? No. Not unless they join the fight.
#88
And as of this last week, I have felt that we have passed a thresh-hold and it has become clear that this war is going to get far more bloody and ruthless before it gets better. I'm saddened by that.
I'm unbelievably depressed by it. The idea that no one twigged to today's attack, there was no one in a position to expose it, or that no one cared to, is crushing.
People are born into a faith. It is unrealistic to think they are going to drop it and walk away.
Absolutely right. But is it unrealistic to expect them to defend that faith, when they see it being corrupted? That's what the moderate storyline says, that terrorism is a corruption of Islam.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 15:27 Comments ||
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#89
And when did I say I wanted to close ALL mosques? When did I say I wanted them give up their faith? When did I disagree with you that the majority of them want to live in peace. That probably most whites disapproved of slavery did not stop the civil war. This war has gotten beyond the point that we can hold up poster children for Muslim moderation and stop the bombing in our cities. In case you haven't noticed, there is a war going on.
#90
Probably sooner rather than later those Muslims who do want to live in peace are going to have to decide which side of the fence they are on. They can't be fence-sitters forever.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/21/2005 15:34 Comments ||
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#91
But is it unrealistic to expect them to defend that faith, when they see it being corrupted
Sigh. It's like watching a train going full speed towards a bridge that's collapsed and knowing there's not a damn thing you can do to stop it in time.
#92
I will stop talking about MMMs when I see Moslems in the West actively working against Islamofascism.
Yes, it requires work. Public effort. And rejecting certain doctrines, such as taqiya, jihad and sharia. There is no moderate interpretation of these Islamic tools of conquest and submission. Just as there was no moderate interpretation of Nazism.
If Moslems want to keep faith in their god, I don't care. But they've got to give up the murderous parts of their ideology.
What liberals fail to understand is that we are reaching the point where all Moslems in Western countries are going to be held accountable for the actions of Islamofascist -- precisely because there is no clear distinction between the two. Such distinction does not consist in pious vows or hand-waving or holding up a corpse or telling the story of a prisoner in Iran. It requires very public, sustained action. It's up to them to demonstrate that their religion will not continue to oppose our freedom.
#93
Don't just blame the Muslims, Kalle. The liberal apologists, the Galloways, the BBC, and all of the people who, in the name of "a higher cause" refuse to allow meaningful, bold steps to be taken to stop the spread of the hateful ideology. They are every bit as much to blame.
#94
Comment #92 all by itself makes this thread a keeper. That's EXACTLY the way it is.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/21/2005 15:53 Comments ||
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#95
Sigh. It's like watching a train going full speed towards a bridge that's collapsed and knowing there's not a damn thing you can do to stop it in time.
?
Is that for me, or for them?
I realize my comment applies both to the Islamists and the moderates. Both see the modern world as leading their faith into corruption. I just want to hear as much from the moderates as we do from the Islamists.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/21/2005 16:12 Comments ||
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#96
Izzis a great site, or what?
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/21/2005 16:28 Comments ||
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#97
"Izzis a great site, or what?"
Yup. It is. It's among the very best of the best, in my opinion.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/21/2005 16:52 Comments ||
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#98
Robert - I just meant to emphasize your point. Even if the Muslims and our liberal apologists are realizing that the train is headed for the edge, I just don't see that changes can be made fast enough to stop what is already in motion.
#99
This argument with LiberalHawk reminds me of the arguments successfully made by those opposing quarantining the initial AIDS patients. The LiberalHawk type won their arguments and we see how wonderfully well AIDs has been contained and stamped out today.
LH I am so glad that due to the Lefts justified stance my boys born after the initial AIDs cases in the late 70s and 80-81 timeframe do not have to worry about catching AIDs today. It was completely quenched by the loonie lefts marvelous plan! What a complete victory!
#103
Dang. I just knew that #99 weren't gonna sit there forever without someone comin' along sooner or later to make it an even hunnert. Just like a dog who can't let a fire hydrant go by unanointed...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/21/2005 20:58 Comments ||
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#104
I've been out all day and this was the first thing I noticed when I refreshed, lol!
#106
Long ago I commented to Lh that he didn't seem to need anyone else to have a conversation - he could handle both sides himself - and did, regularly. ;-)
DAMASCUS (Reuters) - Syria said on Thursday its border troops had been fired on by U.S. and Iraqi forces and accused Washington, London and Baghdad of lack of cooperation in preventing insurgents infiltrating into Iraq. It was the first time Syria, which has a 600 km (375 mile) desert border with Iraq, had reported cases of U.S. troops firing on its forces.
The Foreign Ministry told heads of diplomatic missions in Damascus in a letter obtained by Reuters that Syrian border troops had been subject to attacks "not only by infiltrators and smugglers but by the Iraqi and American forces." "The border clashes amounted to about 100 armed clashes, some of which were carried out by American soldiers who opened fire arbitrarily at those present behind the dirt rampart due to loss of self control," said the ministry.
Trust me, if we lose self-control, you'll know about it
The U.S. military in Iraq has launched several operations against insurgents near the border in the past few months but has not reported any cross-border fire.
Sounds like a few stray rounds went overhead and the border guards wet their drawers
U.S. officials accuse Syria of not doing enough to stop insurgents from crossing into Iraq to fight U.S. and Iraqi forces and often say that guerrillas are using Syria as a conduit for the transfer of funds to fuel the insurgency. "Syria ... needs to take steps to go after those ... elements that may be operating on their territory and they need to play a helpful role with their neighbors," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan. "Syria has been out of step with the rest of the Middle East. The Middle East has been leaning more and more in the direction of freedom and democracy," said McClellan.
The ministry said Syria was doing its utmost to seal its border with Iraq from being crossed by Syrian and other foreign insurgents. Syria had prevented 1,240 suspects from crossing into Iraq and extradited most of them to their respective countries, said the ministry. About 4,000 Syrians "who left or attempted to leave to Iraq to fight there have been investigated," it said.
The United States and Britain had failed to respond to Syrian requests for night vision and radar-based monitoring systems to prevent night infiltrations, said the letter, delivered to envoys by Deputy Foreign Minister Waleed al-Mualem.
Maybe those "stray rounds" were your answer
Syria said daytime infiltrations were now "a very difficult issue (for insurgents) but the problem of infiltrations still persists to a certain extent during the night because of the lack of necessary technical equipment to monitor the border."
It said Iraq had so far failed to ratify a protocol for security cooperation signed in Damascus in July 2004 and subsequent agreements.
Stability in Iraq was in the interest of Syria because it paved the way for the end of the presence of U.S.-led forces in Iraq, said the letter.
Those troops making you nervous? Good.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 14:55 ||
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Syria said on Thursday its border troops had been fired on by U.S. and Iraqi forces..
Fantastic!! Can we do it again?
..and accused Washington, London and Baghdad of lack of cooperation in preventing insurgents infiltrating into Iraq.
One question: Where is the infiltration COMING FROM???
Uh huh. Now how is it that Syria needs some kind of "cooperation" from us?
The United States and Britain had failed to respond to Syrian requests for night vision and radar-based monitoring systems to prevent night infiltrations, said the letter,..
Oh, I get it now. They want some of our advanced equipment, so they can copy it or appropriate it permanently. Boy, these guys do have nerve, I'll say that much.
#3
If Syria needs advanced equipment, like night-vision stuff, let them talk to Pootie Poot. He was willing to give them missiles, so he should be able to part with a few night vision goggles.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/21/2005 16:29 Comments ||
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#4
Send a note to the Syrian governement that the shots were from a wedding party for a couple of our soldiers.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/21/2005 17:23 Comments ||
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#5
I hope that the US did respond tothe night vision request .... a two response.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/21/2005 17:25 Comments ||
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#6
Keep shooting until the infiltration stops. The asshats from Syria aren't going to Iraq for vacation.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/21/2005 18:47 Comments ||
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#9
I found the suggestion of US troop "loss of control" amusing. You'll know there was loss of control when the dead lie thick on the tortured ground because officers stopped controlling the rules of engagement and started using 1/10th of 1% of the firepower we have in the region.
Posted by: too true ||
07/21/2005 19:40 Comments ||
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#10
Mebbe they can ask their Hizbullah buddies for some of the 10,000 Katyushas now pointed at the zionist entity TM
EFL:
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (AP) - Suspected Taliban militants raided a village and killed nine tribesmen, and vengeance-seeking relatives killed four people in another hamlet, an official said Thursday, as violence simmered ahead of key parliamentary elections. The nine ethnic Hazaras were killed when rebels raided their village Monday in central Uruzgan province, Gov. Jan Mohammed Khan said. The victim's relatives staged a retaliatory raid Wednesday against a nearby ethnic Pashtun hamlet, killing four people, he said. The Taliban are mostly of Pashtuns, the dominant ethnic group in southern Afghanistan. Security forces were deployed to the region to reduce tension between the two communities, Khan said.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 11:39 ||
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Friggin Pashtuns are no damn good
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/21/2005 11:55 Comments ||
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#2
That is what you call a Community Action Group.
#3
Dang Simmering, Seething and Grilling... sounds like a take out joint.
Posted by: Reicheilen Have Tongs Will Travel ||
07/21/2005 13:33 Comments ||
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#4
I believe the Hazaras are not only of a different Ethnicity but are also Shia's. If so is there any connection between these people and Iran. Iran has alot of influence in Herat and with Ismael Khan who is a Sunni Tajik. Not alot of reporting on Iran's influence and maneuvering in the Theatre. This of course could be just settling old scores as well.
#5
Oddly, a disproportionate number of Pashtuns are also homosexual (per "The Interrogators: Inside the Secret War Against al Qaeda" by Chris Mackey).
Posted by: Captain America ||
07/21/2005 15:56 Comments ||
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#6
Pashtuns can only have homo sex if there are no nice, sexy goats available. And, it just so happens that we have the finest goats available with a full range of arab and infidel clothing, which can be shipped by air.
Posted by: Achmed of ACME of Gaza ||
07/21/2005 16:10 Comments ||
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#7
Exploding goats made to order.
Wire SPo'D San Fransisco.
#8
The Hazaras are Shi'ite but like many non-Iranian Shi'ites they reject velayet-e-faqih (Khomeinism) as heresy.
As for the Pashtuns, they tend to engage in a form of pederasty roughly akin to that which was practiced in ancient Greece. The male is the standard of beauty and as such older men frequently take youths as lovers while continuing to act as husbands and raise families.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/21/2005 17:26 Comments ||
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#9
Have Dope, Will Splod 'im.
Wire SPoD, San Francisco
#5
SCTV is actually relevant here since "Station Director" Moe Green (Harold Ramis) was kidnapped by terrorists and held for ransom (which the station refused to pay).
#6
Candy's best work, IMNSHO. Johnny LaRue screwing over the MacKensie brothers every week. The Gerbils.
Did you see the New Year's eve 83/84 show? Normal show up to midnight, then switched over to Big Brother TV, Joe F. doing his "Chuck Heston as leader of the resistance"...
Two Algerian diplomats in Iraq have been kidnapped in Baghdad, police say. An Algerian embassy employee confirmed that mission chief Ali Balarousi had been abducted. Police say the top envoy and a diplomatic aide were seized outside a restaurant in the western Mansour district by attackers in two cars. The capture follows the abduction and killing earlier this month of Egypt's ambassador-designate in Iraq, which has been claimed by insurgents. Days after Ihab al-Sherif's kidnapping, gunmen attacked vehicles carrying Pakistani and Bahraini diplomats in Iraq.
Officials say insurgents have launched attacks on diplomats to try to dissuade Arab countries from raising the level of their diplomatic representation. Egypt's decision to designate Mr Sherif an ambassador made Egypt the first Arab country to upgrade ties with Iraq. The US has been encouraging Arab countries to appoint ambassadors to Baghdad in an attempt to strengthen the new state and undermine the insurgency.
Forty-six countries have foreign missions in Iraq, according to Iraq's foreign ministry.
The Algerian embassy employee told the Associated Press that staff had no further information on Thursday's incident. A third Algerian diplomat who witnessed the capture told AFP news agency that he had seen the attackers pull the men out of their car, without firing shots.
Algerians have been beating up their own terror groups pretty good, this may be payback
Meanwhile, at least eight Iraqis have died in a series of attacks by insurgents in and around Baghdad.
A suicide car bomber attacked an army patrol in Mahmoudiya, 30km (19 miles) south of the capital, killing five soldiers and wounding nine.
A policeman was killed and eight others wounded by a car bomb in the capital, and two civilians died in a separate attack in the city.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 09:49 ||
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Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Grilling!
LONDON â The British Al Qaeda leader linked to the London terrorist attacks was being questioned by police in Pakistan last night after the discovery of mobile phone records detailing his calls with the bombers. Haroon Rashid Aswat has emerged as the figure that Scotland Yard have been hunting since he flew out of Britain just hours before the attacks which killed 56 people. Is he done on that side? Let's flip him over.
Aswat, 30, who is believed to come from the same West Yorkshire town as one of the bombers, arrived in Britain a fortnight before the attacks to orchestrate final planning for the atrocity. He spoke to the team of bombers on his mobile phone a few hours before the four men blew themselves up and killed fifty-two other people. A little more marinade please...
Intelligence sources told The Times that during his stay Aswat visited the home towns of all four bombers as well as selecting targets in London. Aswat has been known to Western intelligence services for more than three years after the FBI accused him of trying to set up Al Qaeda training camps in the United States. When he was arrested in a madrassa (religious school), Aswat is understood to have been posing as a businessmen and using a false name. He was picked up in a raid at a madrassa at Sargodha, 90 miles from Islamabad, by Pakistani intelligence officials and flown to a jail in the capital. Press him down. Let's get some of those nice grill marks on him.
Security sources there told The Times that he was armed with a number of guns, wearing an explosive belt and carrying around £17,000 in cash. He had a British passport and was about to flee across the border to Afghanistan. Did the explosive belt at least go with his shoes. I notice he didn't have the balls to set it off. Another "never surrender" jihadi pussy.
Aswat, who is thought to have stayed in the madrassa with two of the British bombers, is being questioned over claims that one â Mohammad Sidique Khan â telephoned him on the morning of the July 7 attack. Intelligence sources claim that there were up to twenty calls between Aswat and two of the bombers in the days leading up to the bombing of three Tube trains and a double-decker bus. A senior Pakistani security source said: âWe believe this man had a crucial part to play in what happened in London.â Tony Blair has telephoned President Musharraf about the crackdown on militants which has led to more than 200 arrests in Pakistan since the weekend. Officials in Islamabad say that eight men are directly linked to the London investigation, and were in telephone contact with Shehzad Tanweer, 22, and Khan, 30, a former primary school assistant.
Aswat is believed to have had a ten-year association with militant groups and met Usama bin Laden while attending an Al Qaeda training camp at Khalden in Afghanistan. FBI documents obtained by The Times reveal details of how a London-based cleric sent Aswat to America in 1999 to set up camps in Oregon for U.S.-born recruits. The papers indicate that Aswat spent three months in America and engaged in firearms and poisons training but decided against using a remote ranch in Bly as an Al Qaeda camp. The CIA is keeping in close touch with Aswatâs interrogation and British detectives are seeking permission to speak to him. He should be about well done by then.
The FBI is to question a number of figures held in the United States, including James Ujaama, an American convert to Islam who met Aswat, and a second Al Qaeda emissary in Seattle. Ujaama has pleaded guilty to assisting the Taliban and is now a âco-operating witnessâ who has given details of Aswatâs activities in the United States. Wonder how long they had to grill him to get him to flip?
#8
According to the NY Times: Haroon Rashid Aswat, 31, originally from Dewsbury in north-central England, was a senior aide to Abu Hamza al-Masri, the blind, one-armed militant cleric who preached at the Finsbury Park mosque in north London until his arrest in April 2004.
Is anybody surprised? It's well past time time to arrest and deport those who is reek of Islamism.
Posted by: ed ||
07/21/2005 11:38 Comments ||
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#9
I'll have the terrorist tikka please with a side of basmati rice and some nan. Oh, and a Kingfisher beer too please.
#16
Lock his feet into a nice, teflon-coated waffle-maker for a couple of hours, set on "quick cook". Other portions of the anatomy may be used as well. Do not use butter! Salt heavily before turning.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/21/2005 23:19 Comments ||
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THE British al-Qaeda leader linked to the London terrorist attacks was being questioned by police in Pakistan last night after the discovery of mobile phone records detailing his calls with the suicide bombers. Haroon Rashid Aswat has emerged as the figure that Scotland Yard have been hunting since he flew out of Britain just hours before the attacks which killed 56 people. Aswat, 30, who is believed to come from the same West Yorkshire town as one of the bombers, arrived in Britain a fortnight before the attacks to orchestrate final planning for the atrocity. He spoke to the suicide team on his mobile phone a few hours before the four men blew themselves up and killed fifty-two other people. Intelligence sources told The Times that during his stay Aswat visited the home towns of all four bombers as well as selecting targets in London.
That makes him the controller if not the "mastermind"
Aswat has been known to Western intelligence services for more than three years after the FBI accused him of trying to set up al-Qaeda training camps in the US. When he was arrested in a madrassa (religious school), Aswat is understood to have been posing as a businessmen and using a false name. He was picked up in a raid at a madrassa at Sargodha, 90 miles from Islamabad, by Pakistani intelligence officials and flown to a jail in the capital. Security sources there told The Times that he was armed with a number of guns, wearing an explosive belt and carrying around £17,000 in cash. He had a British passport and was about to flee across the border to Afghanistan.
Posing as a businessman? What business was he purporting to be in?
Aswat, who is thought to have stayed in the madrassa with two of the British suicide bombers, is being questioned over claims that one â Mohammad Sidique Khan â telephoned him on the morning of the July 7 attack. Intelligence sources claim that there were up to twenty calls between Aswat and two of the bombers in the days leading up to the bombing of three Tube trains and a double-decker bus. A senior Pakistani security source said: âWe believe this man had a crucial part to play in what happened in London.â
The boom belt strongly suggests that. His reluctance to actually use it confirms it.
Tony Blair has telephoned President Musharraf about the crackdown on militants which has led to more than 200 arrests in Pakistan since the weekend. Officials in Islamabad say that eight men are directly linked to the London investigation, and were in telephone contact with Shehzad Tanweer, 22, and Khan, 30, a former primary school assistant. Aswat is believed to have had a ten-year association with militant groups and met Osama bin Laden while attending an al-Qaeda training camp at Khalden in Afghanistan.
So it's not like he's new to this. But nobody's gotten around to rounding him up yet...
FBI documents obtained by The Times reveal details of how a London-based cleric sent Aswat to America in 1999 to set up camps in Oregon for US-born recruits.
There's the link between al-Qaeda and Abu Hamza al-Masri. Maybe Tony'd like to send him to Gitmo?
The papers indicate that Aswat spent three months in America and engaged in firearms and poisons training but decided against using a remote ranch in Bly as an al-Qaeda camp. The CIA is keeping in close touch with Aswatâs interrogation and British detectives are seeking permission to speak to him. The FBI is to question a number of figures held in the US, including James Ujaama, an American convert to Islam who met Aswat, and a second al-Qaeda emissary in Seattle. Ujaama has pleaded guilty to assisting the Taleban and is now a âco-operating witnessâ who has given details of Aswatâs activities in the US.
Aswat flew into New York on November 26, 1999, on an Air India flight with Oussama Abdullah Kassir, who has Swedish nationality. Kassir, 38, described himself as âa hitman for Osama bin Ladenâ and claimed to have fought in Afghanistan and Kashmir. Ujaama drove the pair to the ranch but they complained that it did not have the facilities â especially barracks for potential recruits â that they had been led to believe existed. During November and December 1999, Aswat and Kassir met potential candidates for jihad training. The FBI document details how they secured the Bly property with guard patrols and passwords and they and others received training in firearms and âimprovised poisonsâ. Aswat and Kassir were still in the United States in February 2000. They were living in Seattle where they âexpounded the writings and teachingsâ of their London-based mentor in lectures to young Muslims at a city mosque. Kassir also provided what the FBI described as âurban tactical trainingâ. In 2002, an associate of Kassir was arrested in Stockholm, the Swedish capital, attempting to board a flight to London carrying a revolver.
We heard about him at the time, I seem to recall they let him go
Kassir, a Lebanese-born Swede, was jailed for ten months in November 2003 for possessing illegal weapons at his home in Stockholm. Charges that he was planning a terrorist attack were dropped.
Sounds like a major catch
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 09:09 ||
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Is upside-down crucifixion in Trafalger Square still a legimitate form of capital punishment?
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/21/2005 9:20 Comments ||
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#2
Let's go old-school British on him. Drawn and quartered at the Tower after a turn on the rack.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/21/2005 10:32 Comments ||
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Glory is to Allah, His Messenger, and the Believers.
How sweet it is, especially when it is demonstrated in a hostile environment.
Court proceedings in the case known as âThe Tawhid Brigades Caseâ began in a Jordanian court house last week. A group of Mujahideen, who are accused of threatening or attempting to blow up the central intelligence building in Jordan were brought to the court room to hear the charges against them and to enter a plea.
Ahmad Samir, the first defendant to be called, wasted no time to deliver a sermon in the court room. Here are some excerpts from his sermon:
âYour system of government is a Kafir system as you do not rule by the Shariah of Allahâ
âOur Sheikh Abu Mesaab Al-Zarqawi said: If we have possession of chemical weapons, we would not hesitate to attack Tel Aviv. I say to you, in that case we will also hit you and your apostate system because you are traitors and that makes you and the Jews one of the same.â
âI swear by Allah, 20 Kilos of explosives are not enough for you. I want to use hundreds of Kilos to wipe you out.â
Finally he issued a direct threat to kill the prosecutor and the panel of judges:
âYou just wait for reaction from our brothers. Your blood is the tastiest and they cannot wait.â
His defense team asked the court to throw away his confession as it was obtained under pressure and torture but the statements and threats made by him in the court room almost assuredly garnered him the death penalty.
Another defendant, a Jordanian by the name Azmy Al-Jaiushy, informed the court that the former director of Jordanian Central Intelligence, Saâd Khair and security officer, Ali Berjaq beat him up with an electric cable and the butt of a pistol. He further added that while he was being interrogated, his children ages, 7,8, and 12 were detained and brought to prison.
Having heard the first defendant, the panel of judges prevented Al-Jaiushy from reading his prepared statement, but he shouted in the court room:
âI want to read my statement to tell you about the target I planned to attackâ
Another defendant, Hussein Sharif, informed the court that he was beaten and tortured as was his brother Hosni. He said that his confession was obtained by force and torture.
The next defendant was Hassan Omar Al-Samik. He allowed his attorney to inform the court that he was beaten, tortured and forced to give an incorrect confession. As soon as his attorney concluded addressing the court, Hassan began to speak:
âI left Jordan to prepare myself for Jihad in the cause of Allah. Upon completion of my training, I returned to Jordan to fulfill my duty to fight the apostate rulers and their collaborators that takes priority over fighting the Christian and Jewish infidels. For that reason, my goal became to wage war against you and your apostate government which spreads corruption and uses every thing at its disposal to fight the Mujahideen in order to please their American and Jewish masters.
I have chosen the central intelligence building as my target because it represents the ultimate infidelity in this country. I have seen with my own eyes brothers from Yemen, Chechnya, Algeria, and other Arab countries sent by America to its 51st State, Jordan that is, for interrogation and torture to obtain information needed for the security of the Americans. I want to fight you with every thing I have got. I swear by Allah, if all I have left is dust, I would fight you with dust.â
The next defendant, Anas Samir, a Syrian Mujahid, who said:
âI came to Jordan to fight the rulers because they have committed acts that took them out of the fold of Islam. For example, they govern by man made laws instead of Allahâs Shariah, they recruited and trained soldiers to protect them rather than fight the enemies of Allah, They allow adultery and fornication in private quarters, and they legalized usuryâ.
The prosecutor asked him why did he want to fight in Jordan and not in his home country of Syria?
Samir responded by saying: âThere ought to be no borders between countries. Jihad in the cause of Allah is valid any where on earth. He then shouted:
âI am an arrow in the hand of Allah, He throws me at any target He wishes. I am prepared to fight Jordan and other than Jordan in the cause of Allah. You are the guardians of the Americans and the Jews. So an attack against you is an attack against them.â
The court was adjourned until 7 September.
{They say, âif we return to Madinah, surely the more honorable (element) will expel therefrom the meanerâ. But honor belongs to Allah, and His messenger, and to the Believers; but the Hypocrites know not.â}63:8
From Jihad Unspun, an article by Muhammad Abu Nasr
.... The Office of the Martyr as-Sadr, the movement headed by Shiâi religious leader Muqtada as-Sadr, issued a statement on Tuesday in which it accused the US occupation forces and their stooges of being behind the âmassacreâ in Baghdad al-Jadidah that took place on Wednesday, 13 July, in which 32 Iraqi children were killed, and the bombing at a fuel station that killed dozens more civilians in al-Musayyib on Saturday, 16 July.
Regarding the massacre that occurred in the Baghdad al-Jadidah area in the eastern part of the capital Baghdad last Wednesday in which a bombing took the lives of 32 Iraqi children, involved in it were the hands of the American occupation and its collaborators who then accused what the occupation and its stooges called âterroristsâ of being responsible. We confirm that the American occupation in Iraq and its collaborators are the real killers of the Iraqi children and civilians in al-Musayyib and in Baghdad in the last few days.
The occupationâs aim in this is to destabilize the security situation to provide itself with an excuse and justification for continuing to storm cities, killing and driving people out of their homes and destroying their infrastructures, all in order to prolong the period of their presence on Iraqi soil.
.... In addition, the Board of Muslim âUlamaâ [Scholars], the highest Sunni religious authority in occupied Iraq accused the US of being responsible for the attack, as did the Shiâi al-Khalisi movement and a number of Iraqi politicians opposed to the occupation, following statements from the Iraqi Resistance saying that they had nothing to do with the attack and condemning the bombing. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/21/2005 00:31 ||
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I'd give Tater about the same credence I would a 5 year old with cake smeared over his face claiming "I didn't eat any cake!"
Posted by: DanNY ||
07/21/2005 6:01 Comments ||
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#3
As I remember, that piece of shit has a warrant out on him for murder. Didn't he kill a rival cleric in the early days of the ocupation? Then he caused a big stink, got a bunch of his followers killed by our troops, and somehow made everyone forget he is a murderer. Maybe the guy he killed was an apostate, so who can blame him.
#8
Well, BaR, we need to look at our own house first. Is what Satyr says any worse than what Congresswomen McKinney and Barbara Lee, or Congressman Conyers, say?
The government on Wednesday suspended Senior Superintendent of Capital Police (SSP) Liaqat Ali Khan and SP Headquarters Sultan Azam Taimuri for mishandling the raids on seminaries on Tuesday night. The suspended police officials have been asked to report to the Establishment Division while Inam Ghani, SSP of the Diplomatic Protection Department, has been asked to look after the affairs of SSP Islamabad till further orders.
The prime minister took serious note of policemenâs intrusion into a womenâs seminary, Madrassa Hifsa, located near the Lal Mosque without getting permission from the concerned authorities and hitting the students with batons. Intelligence agencies have also submitted reports to the Interior Ministry wherein it was stated that some senior police officials conducted raids at mosques and seminaries without proper information and coordination with intelligence agencies, sources told Daily Times. The reports also said that no senior official of the district administration was present at the womenâs seminary when the policemen entered it. However, they added that the additional deputy commissioner general and the assistant commissioner rushed to the spot when the police officials returned unsuccessful from the seminary.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/21/2005 00:00 ||
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Isn't that called initiative and not wanting to tip your hand to the bad guys?
Posted by: DanNY ||
07/21/2005 6:07 Comments ||
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NPR reported the raids this morning. They also mentioned in passing that X% (I don't remember the exact number, and it doesn't matter anyway) of the Iraqi Police and Army units are not fully operational... at which point I started explaining the concept of reality to the car radio, and trailing daughter #1 suggested I turn it off. ;-) (7:15 in the a. bloody m. is when her Summer Phys. Ed. class starts. Yuck.)
A team of police here Tuesday night raided Red Mosque and its adjoining two Madrassahas and arrested five, while anti-President Pervez Musharraf protest left at least 40 female students wounded.
"Mahmoud! Let's get some wimmin out there to get thumped!"
"Hokay, boss!"
"But not too tough now, y'hear me Mahmoud?"
"Hokay, boss!"
"And none of dem damn marathon runners, 'cause I don't feel like chasin' 'em! It's too hot outside!"
"Hokay, boss!"
The raid on Lal Mosque (Red Mosque) and its adjoining two Madrassahas, Jamia Hafsa and Jamia Faridia, in search of the Mosque head Abdul Rashid Ghazi, sparked anti-government and anti-Musharraf protest by over a 100 students. Ghazi is wanted in connection with Al Qaeda-linked plots for suicide attacks on President Musharraf. An official of Jamia Hafsa told KUNA while declining to divulge her name that the police team raided the mosque and Madrassahas and tortured students.
Put gents' underwear on their heads, did they? Somehow, my sympathy meter hasn't budged.
She said at least 40 female students were wounded in baton charge.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/21/2005 00:00 ||
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"The memorization of the Holy Quran, according to the sayings of the Holy Prophet (SAS) is a commendable task. In fact the recitation and memorization of the Holy Quran is so beneficial for the Muslims, that if one tries to write down these benefits, they are so numberless that it is difficult to write them down."
Hey, that sound great.
Posted by: Jason ||
07/21/2005 0:20 Comments ||
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#3
Heh heh Jason, matter of fact writing anything down is difficult because we learned the whole damn thing in Arabic and haven't made much headway in writing either Arabic or Urdu.
A car bomb blew up an army jeep on Wednesday, killing five soldiers and at least one civilian and injuring 20 people near a school in an elite neighborhood of Indian-held Kashmirâs capital, police said. Police said a suicide bomber also was killed in the blast when he rammed the car into the jeep - which would bring the death toll to seven - but a militant group that claimed responsibility for the blast said it was triggered in a parked car by remote-control. Indiaâs government called the attack an effort to derail peace talks between India and Pakistan, but promised to push ahead with the dialogue with its neighbour and rival of six decades.
No children were hurt inside the Burn Hall School in Srinagar, senior police officer Haseeb Ahmed said. But the blast knocked down part of a wall and shattered windows in a neighborhood filled with homes of top government officials, Ahmed said. The injured - both civilians and security officials - were taken to a hospital, where some of them were in serious condition, he said. A caller identifying himself as Salim Hashmi, spokesman for Kashmirâs largest militant group Hizbul Mujahideen, claimed responsibility for the blast in a call to a local news agency, Current News Service. He denied there was a suicide bomber.
Oh, yeah? Then whose elbow is that?
Posted by: Fred ||
07/21/2005 00:00 ||
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A bomb, driving down the road ramming jeeps, but without a suicide driver!? Now that is logic. Must have been a CIA conspiracy.
GAZA: Gunmen from Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah faction and Hamas militants exchanged fire on Wednesday just hours after an agreement to end the worst domestic violence in years. Leaders from the groups quickly intervened to restore calm, but the clash underlined tension in Gaza ahead of Israel's plan to withdraw from settlements in the occupied territory.
Toldja so.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Where's the popcorn graphic?
Posted by: Sheik Abu Bin Ali Al-Yahood ||
07/21/2005 2:40 Comments ||
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Ghasp and swoon, Ive got the vapors!
They have broken their gentlemens agreement. You, sir have broken your word of honor and sullied your good name!
DHAKA: Police in northwestern Bangladesh on Wednesday questioned 11 men suspected of being members of a banned Islamic militant group, senior officials said. The men were arrested Tuesday after local residents led police to a house on the outskirts of Rajshahi city, where police found books on bomb-making techniques and diaries praising Jihad, or Islamic holy war, said the areaâs police chief, Baharul Alam. The men, including four Islamic seminary students, are suspected of being members of the banned Jagrata Muslim Janata group, Alam said. All have denied involvement with any Islamic militant group, said another police official, Zahidul Islam, adding that the men told investigators they had gathered in the house to discuss the Quran, the Islamic holy book. A court in Rajshahi, a city 232 kilometers northwest of national capital, Dhaka, has allowed investigators to keep the suspected militants in custody for seven days.
Early this year the government outlawed two Islamic militant groups - Jumatul Mujahedin and Jagrata Muslim Janata - for their alleged involvement in a spate killings, robberies and bomb attacks in Bangladesh. The groups have denied involvement in the violence, but vowed to work to establish Islamic rule in this predominantly Muslim nation of 140 million people.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/21/2005 00:00 ||
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Hey! It's "extremists" or "terrorists" and not "militants." BBC influence at work.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler ||
07/21/2005 3:32 Comments ||
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#2
Hey, Vlad! You only posted it once! Awrite!
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/21/2005 12:09 Comments ||
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Why is newbie so mean? Is it a trademark perhaps?
Posted by: Have Tongs Will Travel ||
07/21/2005 13:41 Comments ||
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Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah party and the Hamas have ordered their gunmen off the streets in Gaza to end inflighting that left 13 people wounded. At a press conference late on Tuesday evening, Nizar Rayyan, a Hamas spokesman and Sufyan Abu Zaidai, Palestinian minister for Prisoners, announced that all gunmen had been ordered to return to their homes, after the two sides reached an agreement to stop the fighting. "Nothing is better than our unity against our enemy (Israel)," said senior Hamas leader Nizar Rayyan.
Earlier on Tuesday, clashes erupted between Fatah and Hamas in the Gaza Strip, especially in northern Gaza, which left at least 13 people wounded. It was the worst Palestinian infighting in several years.
Given Hamas' demonstrated record in adhering to such agreements, I doubt it'll last long.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/21/2005 00:00 ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
please! 
and a nice 
THE British al-Qaeda leader linked to the London terrorist attacks was being questioned by police in Pakistan last night after the discovery of mobile phone records detailing his calls with the suicide bombers. 
The government on Wednesday suspended Senior Superintendent of Capital Police (SSP) Liaqat Ali Khan and SP Headquarters Sultan Azam Taimuri for mishandling the raids on seminaries on Tuesday night. The suspended police officials have been asked to report to the Establishment Division while Inam Ghani, SSP of the Diplomatic Protection Department, has been asked to look after the affairs of SSP Islamabad till further orders.
A team of police here Tuesday night raided Red Mosque and its adjoining two Madrassahas and arrested five, while anti-President Pervez Musharraf protest left at least 40 female students wounded.
A car bomb blew up an army jeep on Wednesday, killing five soldiers and at least one civilian and injuring 20 people near a school in an elite neighborhood of Indian-held Kashmirâs capital, police said. Police said a suicide bomber also was killed in the blast when he rammed the car into the jeep - which would bring the death toll to seven - but a militant group that claimed responsibility for the blast said it was triggered in a parked car by remote-control. Indiaâs government called the attack an effort to derail peace talks between India and Pakistan, but promised to push ahead with the dialogue with its neighbour and rival of six decades. 
GAZA: Gunmen from Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah faction and Hamas militants exchanged fire on Wednesday just hours after an agreement to end the worst domestic violence in years. Leaders from the groups quickly intervened to restore calm, but the clash underlined tension in Gaza ahead of Israel's plan to withdraw from settlements in the occupied territory. 
DHAKA: Police in northwestern Bangladesh on Wednesday questioned 11 men suspected of being members of a banned Islamic militant group, senior officials said. The men were arrested Tuesday after local residents led police to a house on the outskirts of Rajshahi city, where police found books on bomb-making techniques and diaries praising Jihad, or Islamic holy war, said the areaâs police chief, Baharul Alam. The men, including four Islamic seminary students, are suspected of being members of the banned Jagrata Muslim Janata group, Alam said. All have denied involvement with any Islamic militant group, said another police official, Zahidul Islam, adding that the men told investigators they had gathered in the house to discuss the Quran, the Islamic holy book. A court in Rajshahi, a city 232 kilometers northwest of national capital, Dhaka, has allowed investigators to keep the suspected militants in custody for seven days. 
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah party and the Hamas have ordered their gunmen off the streets in Gaza to end inflighting that left 13 people wounded. At a press conference late on Tuesday evening, 
