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2017-10-19 Europe

Why Europe's New Nationalists Love Israel

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Posted by Besoeker 2017-10-19 01:27|| || Front Page|| [6 views ] Top

#1 Could it be that the Jewish state stands for something ?

Posted by Besoeker 2017-10-19 01:33|| 2017-10-19 01:33|| Front Page Top

#2 I've discussed the phenomena with an old friend. We reached the conclusion that a new term: Antisemitic Zionist, is needed.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2017-10-19 05:36|| 2017-10-19 05:36|| Front Page Top

#3 but a living, breathing people that punches above its weight in every field of human endeavor.

I'm a pro Israel guy, but, they take a lot of economic and military aid to be considered punching above its weight.

Posted by jvalentour 2017-10-19 09:19|| 2017-10-19 09:19|| Front Page Top

#4 At least the aid they receive goes into something useful and accountable, instead of someones pocket.

So giving Israel aid, you know is going to be used the way it is supposed to be used.

Posted by Seeking cure for ignorance 2017-10-19 10:56|| 2017-10-19 10:56|| Front Page Top

#5 So giving Israel aid, you know is going to be used the way it is supposed to be used.

Most of it is used to counterbalance the aid that USA gives to their Muslim "allies".

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2017-10-19 11:51|| 2017-10-19 11:51|| Front Page Top

#6 Ouch.

Posted by gorb 2017-10-19 12:32|| 2017-10-19 12:32|| Front Page Top

#7 Most of it is used to counterbalance the aid that USA gives to their Muslim "allies".

Aid used to keep them semi-friendly with Israel, and dependent on the US for munitions and spare parts resupply, which somewhat limits their offensive capabilities vis-a-vis Israel. Zeroing out aid to Israel and its immediate neighbors would save $5b a year. Even in this day and age, that's a lot of simoleons. That's 50 F-35's every year. It's a Ford-class carrier every three years. Just how expensive is this aid to Israel and its semi-hostile neighbors, relatively-speaking? It only costs $1b to keep US forces in Korea.

There was a time when Israel needed the money to survive. That time is now past. It's time for it to stand on its own two feet.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2017-10-19 14:29|| 2017-10-19 14:29|| Front Page Top

#8 Aid used to keep them semi-friendly with Israel, and dependent on the US for munitions and spare parts resupply, which somewhat limits their offensive capabilities vis-a-vis Israel.

You just described why USA ME policy is a total failure and Israel has, periodically, to pull your chestnuts from fire.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2017-10-19 14:47|| 2017-10-19 14:47|| Front Page Top

#9 You just described why USA ME policy is a total failure and Israel has, periodically, to pull your chestnuts from fire.

You'll have to remind us less informed readers about when that's happened. Whereas it's pretty clear we stopped the Soviets from eliminating Israel - and triggering an aliyah in reverse - in 1973.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2017-10-19 15:11|| 2017-10-19 15:11|| Front Page Top

#10 How else does the US keep a beach head on the east Med, ZF? Who is going to do the non-PC weapons R&D? Who is going to deploy the accelerated prototypes? Who else has US 'friendly' contract software shops?

It will be a sad day for US Defense without Israel.

Posted by Skidmark 2017-10-19 15:13|| 2017-10-19 15:13|| Front Page Top

#11 Whereas it's pretty clear we stopped the Soviets from eliminating Israel

No boy, actually you lied to us about Russians' intentions to save your future ally Egypt.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2017-10-19 15:20|| 2017-10-19 15:20|| Front Page Top

#12 How else does the US keep a beach head on the east Med, ZF? Who is going to do the non-PC weapons R&D? Who is going to deploy the accelerated prototypes? Who else has US 'friendly' contract software shops?

It will be a sad day for US Defense without Israel.

It's a beach head that we've not been able to use in any of our Middle Eastern expeditions. Besides, with satellite and all-weather drone reconnaisance and guided munitions, beach heads aren't what they used to be.

The issue isn't whether we should be allied with Israel, although that obviously causes us a lot of headaches, some terror-related, with the Muslim world. It's whether we should be sending $5b per year in grants to Israel and its semi-hostile neighbors. We should end the aid and formalize our commitment to Israel via a mutual defense pact. That way, they'd be a little shyer about doing an end-run around us and selling defense tech under false pretenses to our enemies - as they attempted to do with Phalcon and their actual sale of Lavi tech to the Chinese. The kicker is that most of it was developed on the basis of fundamental knowhow we provided to Israel on the Israeli pretext that they needed this information to customize and improve upon it.

Jon Adelman, an international relations specialist and jpost columnist, on how this phenomenon needs to end:

Israel also has to recognize the serious constraints imposed on its arms sales by its close and highly beneficial relationship with the world's dominant superpower. The United States provides great economic, political, and military benefits to Israel, as well as closely reflecting Israel's democratic, free market, and cultural values. In return for this help, Israel needs clear and explicit approval for arms sales to controversial countries that are not considered friendly to the United States. No longer can Israel afford what Amnon Barzilai depicts as: "Vagueness, uncertainty and even an attempt at deception all played a role in the affair over the years, the forced cancellation of the billion dollar deal with China."14 Failure to gain this transparent approval from the U.S. will lead Israel into further pointless confrontations with the superpower that is conducting a highly beneficial war against the axis of evil that includes two of Israel's most serious strategic enemies.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2017-10-19 15:44|| 2017-10-19 15:44|| Front Page Top

#13 No boy, actually you lied to us about Russians' intentions to save your future ally Egypt.

So Nixon went to DEFCON 3 to save the Egyptians? What was Israel going to do - occupy Egypt? Enough with the paranoia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFCON#Yom_Kippur_War

On October 6, 1973, Egypt and Syria launched a joint attack on Israel resulting in the Yom Kippur War. The U.S. became concerned that the Soviet Union might intervene, and on October 25, U.S. forces, including Strategic Air Command, Continental Air Defense Command, European Command and the Sixth Fleet, were placed at DEFCON 3.

According to documents declassified in 2016, the move to DEFCON 3 was motivated by Central Intelligence Agency reports indicating that the Soviet Union had sent a ship to Egypt carrying nuclear weapons along with two other amphibious vessels.[10] Soviet troops never landed, though the ship supposedly transporting nuclear weapons did arrive in Egypt. Further details are unavailable and may remain classified.

Over the following days, the various forces reverted to normal status with the Sixth Fleet standing down on November 17.[11]

Posted by Zhang Fei 2017-10-19 15:52|| 2017-10-19 15:52|| Front Page Top

#14 The tension at sea peaked just as the land war was ending a week later, with the Egyptian Third Army surrounded in the Sinai desert. Responding to Cairo’s plea, Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev warned Washington that if Israel did not lift its siege of the Third Army, the Soviet Union would have to consider sending in troops to do so. Airborne divisions were put on alert in the Soviet Union and Volubuyev was ordered to organize a naval infantry force made up of volunteers from his squadron to be landed at Port Said at the mouth of the Suez Canal in a show of support for Egypt.

The Pentagon’s response to Brezhnev’s warning was a worldwide alert, Defcon (Defensive Condition) 3, the highest state of readiness in peacetime. An American airborne division was put on standby for departure to the Middle East and 50 B-52 strategic bombers were recalled from Guam to the US. A third carrier task force was ordered into the Mediterranean and a 2,000-man marine detachment with the Sixth Fleet was moved south of Crete, closer to the battle area. The Soviet squadron, reinforced through the Dardenelles, now numbered 97 vessels, including 23 submarines, while the Sixth Fleet had grown to 60. “The pressure has reached the breaking point,” wrote Capt. Semenov.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-10-26/little-known-us-soviet-confrontation-during-yom-kippur-war

Posted by Zhang Fei 2017-10-19 15:58|| 2017-10-19 15:58|| Front Page Top

#15 Oft its starting to reveal that the murky depths conceal.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2017-10-19 16:22|| 2017-10-19 16:22|| Front Page Top

#16 I have no problem supporting Israel. I have personally used numerous products of their robust R&D in multiple fields, including medical and commercial. I have on occasion thrown a few pizza's the IDF's way as well. I still think we should drop the aid to their so called neighbors and give it to Israel instead.

Posted by Silentbrick 2017-10-19 16:46|| 2017-10-19 16:46|| Front Page Top

#17 'Brick, a few year ago Bibi asked your congress to drop aid to ME: Israel & Arabs both - guess what the answer was?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2017-10-19 16:52|| 2017-10-19 16:52|| Front Page Top

#18 whether we should be sending $5b per year in grants to Israel and its semi-hostile neighbors

Turning to a quotable platitude:
"Necessity is the mother of invention"

Guess what subsidized Israel's F35s?

Posted by Skidmark 2017-10-19 17:12|| 2017-10-19 17:12|| Front Page Top

#19 Oft its starting to reveal that the murky depths conceal.

You're like an entitled child calling your parents Nazis for not wanting to buy you a new car every year for the rest of your life. Except we're not your parents.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2017-10-19 18:21|| 2017-10-19 18:21|| Front Page Top

#20 So, you see Israel as USA's entitled child, Zhang?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2017-10-19 18:29|| 2017-10-19 18:29|| Front Page Top

#21 Not Israel. You.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2017-10-19 18:50|| 2017-10-19 18:50|| Front Page Top

#22 Do you know what kish mir in tuches means?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2017-10-19 18:51|| 2017-10-19 18:51|| Front Page Top

#23 Yeah well, I can only vote in one state (Cause unlike Democrats, I obey the law) and in Texas there's only so much I can do. Got Cruz there...Abbott in the Gov Mansion, so we're making progress.

Posted by Silentbrick 2017-10-19 20:50|| 2017-10-19 20:50|| Front Page Top

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