Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
China "works." It's a growing economy and it will do well. For one thing, they don't appear to have an EPA.
During the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, and pretty much through the entire Mousie Tongue regime it didn't work. That was back when they were hard-core commies.
Then came Deng Hsiao Ping and economic reform. Along with it came a good deal of reform in the mechanics of the regime. I can remember one girlie saying something to the effect: "They won't repress us! This is China!"
That was about a week before Tien An Mien (I'm not too sure about the spelling anymore and I'm too lazy to look it up.)
China is a demonstration that central planning doesn't work, that collectives don't work, and that Marxism-Leninism-Maoism doesn't work. That way to make an economy work is to put capital in the hands of people who want to make things. Government's function is to make the process easier: cutting red tape for the honest and restraining the dishonest.
On the other hand, China remains a dictatorship. I think that's what B.O.'s buddies are looking forward to: they say "do this" and the rest of us do it. Democracies always degenerate into oligarchies and the oligarchies into dictatorship.
Posted by Fred 2012-12-11 16:45||
#2 To paraph SOKOR Lady Expert Balbina Hwang - CHINA HAS TO ALTER OR CHANGE ITS FORM OF GOVERNMENT IFF IT HOPES TO BECOME A US-STYLE GLOBAL SUPERPOWER, OR EVEN TO REPLACE THE US.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2012-12-12 01:12||
#3 Which China is unwilling to do ALAP.
That leaves the PLA andor its massive Trade-Currency surplus to use agz the US-West, + of course lessor traditional methods.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2012-12-12 01:17||
#4 Immelt will sell them the rope...
Posted by tu3031 2012-12-12 01:26||
#5 Major US publication agrees: The Onion would like to offer the following message to Chinese premier Wen Jiabao:
Peace be with you, glorious comrade of the Far East! It is now but a matter of time until you take ownership of our slovenly American homeland, and we would like to remind you that esteemed journalistic institutions¬--especially those like ours, which are more than willing to compromise their claim to objectivity¬--could prove highly useful to your great nation¬'s sophisticated propaganda wing. Let us help you reeducate the American pig people and spread word of your magnificence.
The Onion Editorial Board
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2012-12-12 02:26||
#6 It works in the sense that government officials can do their jobs without thinking about the little people. It must be a wonderful thought to Washington, D.C.
Posted by gromky 2012-12-12 03:30||
#7 It works the way pharaonic Egypt worked.
No sane decent regular person in the Roman republic or Victorian England or even 2012 America would trade places with an average person in ancient Egypt or China now.
Ah, but ask a power obsessed plutocrat like Immelt the same question, and you would get a different answer.
Posted by no mo uro 2012-12-12 08:47||
#8 Fred, I think you're wrong in a couple particulars.
I think part of the reason China works now has nothing to do with "Capitalism" or "Communism," but does have a lot to do with Mao.
He sent a lot of the Mandarin Class and their families out to the rice paddies to get worked to death alongside the peasants; this at least serves as an incentive to that class, to not screw up so badly that there is a collapse, lest another Mao come along and send their kids out to the rice paddies to be worked to death.
That at least gives one reason why they're better at this communist/capitalist combination than the United States is.
I think there are others.
I think their whole system is crazy. BUT... we're busy adopting the worst bits along with the best, and the basic structure. Just without the bits that allow it to work.
Posted by Jumbo Hatfield2048 2012-12-12 09:05||
#9 Oops. That last poster was me.
Anyway, I'll be back later...
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2012-12-12 09:06||
#10 Private unions are illegal in China but the workers to have their own union, because they felt that the All-China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTU) was not representing them adequately. China has labor laws but they are not strong. However, Credit Suisse estimates these emerging labor laws add 15 percent to 20 percent to the cost of running labor-intensive factories. Still labor costs are way lower than in the U.S. The quality of products in China is starting to improve in China but for the most part Chinese products have difficulty competing in the area of quality in the U.S. Chinese labor unions link.
An article appeared this a.m. in our local paper. A local company, Arctel, makes molded polyurethane medallions, picture and mirror frames. Their only competitor is China. China can make a mirror for about $3 wholesale whereas Arctel can make one and sell it for about $37. Arctel is doing O.K. because the quality is so much better. The Chinese product skimps on urethane and it develops cracks.
Another example is Chinese wallboard that was used in the U.S. Houses that used the wallboard started showing many problems. People who lived in these houses began having allergic reactions to the wallboard. Some people just walked away from these houses because there was little legal recourse. Initiating a products liability lawsuit against a Chinese company is a huge hassle. Usually, attorneys go after the distributor in the U.S.
In addition to ignoring the environment, China also is also lax on workplace safety. Product liability litigation is not what it is in the U.S. All these things add much to product costs. China gets a leg up because they don¬'t pay as much attention to environment, safety, and product safety.
Posted by JohnQC 2012-12-12 10:51||
#11 but the workers but are pushing to have private unions
Posted by JohnQC 2012-12-12 10:53||
#12 The Chinese Labor Law of 2008 gave workers all sorts of rights. Don't think that it didn't.
The drywall thing came about because foreign companies came to China to buy drywall and had this conversation:
Factory: So now you've seen our entire inventory.
Buyer: But what's that over there?
Factory: That? Oh, that's not suitable for export. Only domestic Chinese.
Buyer: How much?
Factory: No, no, you cannot buy this, not suitable for foreign markets.
Buyer: How much?
Factory: No, seriously, this stuff is complete garbage, you should see the crap we make it from, your countries would not accept.
Buyer: No, seriously, how much?
Factory: [tells him]
Buyer: Holy shit, hell yeah! FEMA is going to love this! I want a dozen containers to Long Beach ASAP!
Factory: Paid in advance?
Buyer: Sure thing! I'm going to make a killing off this!
Three years later: newspaper articles about killer drywall and it's all the Chineses' fault
Posted by gromky 2012-12-12 11:07||
#13 You're more than correct about that scenario than most people will admit, Gromky.
Posted by Mullah Richard 2012-12-12 12:50||
#14 China is a MASSIVE bubble. Google Hugh Hendry.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2012-12-12 12:57||
#15 but the workers but are pushing to have private unions
I wonder if they'll hire Jimmy Hoffa Jr. to go bust their heads.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2012-12-12 13:00||
#16 The government, that is. Not the workers.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2012-12-12 13:00||