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2009-11-30 Afghanistan

Unreliable Afghan police vex U.S. trainers

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Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-11-30 04:56|| || Front Page|| [6 views ] Top

#1 It appears there are few good options in Afghanistan. 'Twould have been nice if the US had launched a major campaign after 9/11 to promote (and reward) competence in the languages spoken there, but that didn't happen, and is still not happening. Empowering the locals to trust anyone is a lot more difficult when you can't even speak to them.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2009-11-30 06:47|| 2009-11-30 06:47|| Front Page Top

#2 Pick a local tribe, any tribe. Go with that tribe and put the rest to the sword, declare victory, and GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE! It's the only language they understand.

If you've got three or four hundred years to work with them, hundreds of thousands of trainers, and gazillions of dollars...., well that may prove to be yet another solution.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-11-30 07:56|| 2009-11-30 07:56|| Front Page Top

#3 A lot of the children of Afghanistan are raised as almost brutal animals.

Long ago, the communists realized that if you want to completely change the character of society, you have to start with its children. Unfortunately, they took children and raised them to be thugs and brutes, which accomplished little.

What American should have done at the outset was to create a very large system of military protected western style orphanage and boarding schools. To take the unwanted orphans of Afghanistan and raise them to western standards, while they were critically observing, but not participating in, Afghan culture.

After just a few years, when these kids started to graduate, they would be given preferential treatment by being moved into positions of authority and high pay.

Then, when the prosperous Afghans saw this, there would be a rush to get their children into those schools as well, they being a "proven" path to success.

The final stage would be to extend that school system slowly outward, eventually making public school mandatory in the other cities, and even busing students from rural areas to attend school away from their parents and villages for most of the year.

The US and NATO have been in Afghanistan since 2001. Had we begun with this program then, the 10 year olds by now would be graduating as sophisticated, 18 year olds capable of rapidly ascending the corridors of power and business.

Posted by Anonymoose 2009-11-30 08:47|| 2009-11-30 08:47|| Front Page Top

#4 What you're talking about is really colonization.

Afghanistan is a mess as is most of the world. The US government cannot change that except by example. And conquering countries to impose our culture is not the example we should be setting. We should protect those who have served us, by asylum if necessary, then get out and leave civilizing and nation building to NGOs and missionaries if the Afghans want them. They're much better at it than DOD, CIA, or AID.

Posted by Pliny Uneang2768 2009-11-30 09:09|| 2009-11-30 09:09|| Front Page Top

#5 'Moose, I like your thinking, but you're presupposing language & cultural competence on the US side. The remedy also smacks of colonialism. It's probably the only thing that would have worked.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2009-11-30 09:10|| 2009-11-30 09:10|| Front Page Top

#6 They're much better at it than DOD, CIA, or AID.

As they demonstrate daily in Somalia.

Posted by Procopius2k 2009-11-30 09:11|| 2009-11-30 09:11|| Front Page Top

#7 People get the government they deserve. If the people of Somalia live in a Hobbesian state, it's not the responsibility of the US government to change that, it's primarily the responsibility of the Somalian people. If the NGOs and missionaries can't operate in Somalia the DOD, CIA and AID won't be able to either without being in a war.

The Somalis are not worth the blood and treasure of America. If they threaten the US, we should act to remove the threat. And once we've removed it, we should let them return to whatever state of nature they wish. Just as we should have left Afghanistan as soon after Tora Bora as possible.

Posted by Pliny Uneang2768 2009-11-30 09:26|| 2009-11-30 09:26|| Front Page Top

#8 The Somalis are not worth the blood and treasure of America. Posted by Pliny Uneang2768 2009-11-30 09:26

Few outside our borders are.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-11-30 09:43|| 2009-11-30 09:43|| Front Page Top

#9 Training the locals

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-11-30 11:16|| 2009-11-30 11:16|| Front Page Top

#10 People get the government they deserve.

Then the French should have stayed out of the American War of Independence. Which means we would have most likely remained British subjects.

Civilization is not based upon a balance sheet.

In its original condition, much of the trans-Appalachian region wasn't worth the lives that it took to bring it from what it was to what it is, if you didn't have an idea of what it could be. You could never accurately define what that was till you were there. Ever wonder what the world today would look like if the resources and population of that region beyond Appalachia had never materialized in time to face the threats of the 20th century. It certainly wouldn't be a kinder gentler world.

Posted by Procopius2k 2009-11-30 11:19|| 2009-11-30 11:19|| Front Page Top

#11 "We wouldn't put on these uniforms if we were afraid of the Taliban," he said. "They left because the Americans never came back."

This is the lynchpin of the failure. None of the afganistani's felt they were in control of the the situation.

This points to training a native officer core - a large one so that command can be distributed.

Posted by flash91 2009-11-30 12:10|| 2009-11-30 12:10|| Front Page Top

#12 That's why the Afghans built East Point, flash91, on the West Point model... and initially staffed mostly by West Pointers on sabbatical. The first class should graduate this year, I think.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2009-11-30 12:27|| 2009-11-30 12:27|| Front Page Top

#13 Yes there are a lot of illiterates in the Afghan police.

Yes there are a lot of slackers and thieves in the Afghan police.

But that doesn't mean the solution is education.

There is a good chance that the crooks are, on the average, actually more educated than the non crooks.

One solution, would be to take some crooks and execute them publicly, however, all we are able to do is put them in temp custody. This is better than no punishment but not by enough to act as a deterrent.

Posted by lord garth 2009-11-30 13:45|| 2009-11-30 13:45|| Front Page Top

#14 Pick a local tribe, any tribe. Go with that tribe and put the rest to the sword, declare victory, and GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!

Hear, hear.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2009-11-30 14:54|| 2009-11-30 14:54|| Front Page Top

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