Article

2009-10-11 Afghanistan

Weapons failed US troops during Afghan firefight

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Posted by Anonymoose 2009-10-11 14:01|| || Front Page|| [13 views ] Top

#1 They've spent too much on them over the last forty years to admit that they were wrong now.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-10-11 16:13|| 2009-10-11 16:13|| Front Page Top

#2 Exactly. When properly cleaned and maintained. After firing it all afternoon, you ain't gonna have time to get your swabs and clean it out. I always wondered why we have a high-tech brittle rifle, but I suppose there's just too much money in it.

Posted by gromky 2009-10-11 16:25|| 2009-10-11 16:25|| Front Page Top

#3 ...If these are the M4 carbines they're talking about, then I'm hearing about two problems: first, bad ammo, which was one of the things that gave the original M16 its lousy rep. The other thing is the shorter barrel on the M4 for urban fighting. The rest of the weapon wasn't redesigned, and I gather that's causing problems as well.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2009-10-11 16:29|| 2009-10-11 16:29|| Front Page Top

#4 Although the AP with its layers of fact checkers misses it, SSgt Phillips was awarded the DSC for an earlier battle, the "Ranch House" fight. Citation here. So if he's bitching, I'm listening very respectfully.

Posted by Matt 2009-10-11 16:41|| 2009-10-11 16:41|| Front Page Top

#5 Mike, that sounds about right.

People at the DoD went to great lengths to fix the problems with the M-16, with different barrel twists and heavier bullets, among other things....

Then to make the M4 they shortened the barrel and a lot of the fixes went down the drain.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-10-11 17:06|| 2009-10-11 17:06|| Front Page Top

#6 It's the shutter over the bolt, boys.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2009-10-11 17:16|| 2009-10-11 17:16|| Front Page Top

#7 If the machine gun didn't work at roughly the same time as the rifle stopped working, then it does sound like bad ammo.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-10-11 17:18|| 2009-10-11 17:18|| Front Page Top

#8 "M4 is a quality weapon that can pump out more than 3,000 rounds before any failures occur..."

Compare to the venerable AK-47/74 design, which will happily pump out 10,000+ rounds without a hiccup, whether you clean it or not.

Posted by Scooter McGruder 2009-10-11 20:17|| 2009-10-11 20:17|| Front Page Top

#9 Dirty weapons are always a problem. When 300 plus enemy attack you from prepared positions, dirty weapons are the least of your worries.

Media is eager to blame the brass since cannot blame Barry O for sitting on his hands about reinforcements for months.

Posted by Chuck Simmins">Chuck Simmins 2009-10-11 20:45|| http://northshorejournal.org]">[http://northshorejournal.org] 2009-10-11 20:45|| Front Page Top

#10 Those weapons have been in use for a very long time. I don't recall seeing these complaints in Iraq or earlier in Afghanistan. Why are we only now hearing this?

I am skeptical of the report.

Posted by crosspatch 2009-10-11 21:38|| 2009-10-11 21:38|| Front Page Top

#11 Chuck has it right here. When a force is overwhelmed everything has failed--the air support, the mortars, the perimeter wire, the machine guns, the personal weapons, and the bayonets.

This failure is a failure of command. Someone put these men too far forward for too long. Arrogance has a price and it has been paid in full by these brave soldiers. Navy officers are cashiered for merely running aground. The Army needs to send some Colonels home in disgrace.

Posted by rammer">rammer 2009-10-11 22:14|| 2009-10-11 22:14|| Front Page Top

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