Article

2007-11-15 Afghanistan

Afghan, US-led forces kill dozens of Taliban

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Posted by Fred 2007-11-15 00:13|| || Front Page|| [5 views ] Top
File under: Taliban

#1 Allan smiles.

Posted by gorb 2007-11-15 01:23|| 2007-11-15 01:23|| Front Page Top

#2 Front page of USA Today (I know, Iknow) is all about the resurgence of the Taliban and how they're kicking our butts.

Is it just me, or have I heard that before?

Posted by AlanC 2007-11-15 08:06|| 2007-11-15 08:06|| Front Page Top

#3 Anything approaching bare minimum success represents spectacular triumph in Afghanistan. Anything beyond simply denying the enemy a sanctuary and rear base is gravy. We can't say that in public, of course.

But wait - Afghanistan is much closer to a pure civil war than Iraq. And, and, we all know that civil wars are magic, and can't be won or even influenced by outsiders, and .... dang, it's hard being a bright Donk strategic analyst. So complicated.

Posted by Verlaine 2007-11-15 08:23|| 2007-11-15 08:23|| Front Page Top

#4 dang, it's hard being a bright Donk strategic analyst. So complicated.

it appears that it helps if you can shamelessly deny reality

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-11-15 08:44|| 2007-11-15 08:44|| Front Page Top

#5 Big media and big dhimmicrats are fully invested in anything that weakens, destroys or negates Bush, America and traditional values of God, Family, Country. If that means slanting the news or just down right seditious rhetoric than fine by them.

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2007-11-15 09:24|| 2007-11-15 09:24|| Front Page Top

#6 The Taliban fighters attempted to break contact and moved into a nearby compound causing women and children to flee the area,

Well, it appears they're learning...

Posted by tu3031 2007-11-15 09:31|| 2007-11-15 09:31|| Front Page Top

#7 It impresses me that we could have a great deal of sport if we arranged for a "pirate" radio to broadcast the names of some of the identified dead Taliban to Pakistan.

Slip in a few details of their being engaged in activities repugnant to Muslims, and specify that they were doing ucky things when killed by the Afghan army, police and tribesmen, guaranteed to humiliate his family.

If done craftily, it could imply that the Taliban are homosexual pagan junkie cowards, that are cannibals when starving, and are killed by the Afghan Muslim army more out of disgust and horror than in combat.

Killed while sodomizing each other and chanting Satanic prayers. A few survivors are reported to be begging to be killed in the belief that they will become living undead who will feast in graveyards and cesspits.

Even suggest that the Imams who send them give them drugs in their food and make them pray to the Imams as living gods and prophets, using black magic and offering the souls of their followers to the devil.

You can't go wrong by overestimating the superstition, ignorance and gullibility of such people. All you need to do is start rumors.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-11-15 11:06|| 2007-11-15 11:06|| Front Page Top

#8 "But wait - Afghanistan is much closer to a pure civil war than Iraq. And, and, we all know that civil wars are magic, and can't be won or even influenced by outsiders, and .... dang, it's hard being a bright Donk strategic analyst. So complicated"

I agree that the meme that a civil war is uninfluencable by outsiders, like the related one that military force plays NO role in resolving insurgencies is stupid, and that its politically vulnerable, since it logically should apply to Afghanistan as well as Iraq.

I think thats missing the political reality though. Policy people can make the logical distinction between why we entered a war, and the best strategy going forward. Lots of voters, though, conflate the issues - they can deal with frustrations and difficulties in Afghanistan, cause Osama WAS sheltered there, and they can't on Iraq, cause we didnt find WMD's.

And while Afghanistan may be more of a true civil war, its a much simpler one - the Taliban and their supporters among the rural Pashtun, versus everybody else. And its clear what side we are on, even if we have our issues now and again with Kharzai.

Iraq is hard enough for the informed to understand. Theres AQ, and Sunni insurgents, but theres Shiite militia who commit atrocities, theres Sadr whos sometimes a rebel, and sometimes part of the govt, theres rogue Sadrists, theres an Iraqi govt that seems to be connected to at least some illegal militias, there are places like Basra where AQ has no standing and its "safe" for coalition troops to leave, but local Shiite militias make life hard for Christians and secularists, etc, etc.

Does that mean Iraq is unwinnable, or even that its harder to win there then in Afghanistan? Not necessarily. It DOES mean that it wont be that easy to make the case that if Iraq is a quagmire as claimed, then Afghanistan must be one as well.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2007-11-15 11:47|| 2007-11-15 11:47|| Front Page Top

#9 Spanish civli war as case in point regarding influence: Germany seemd very capable of influencing it.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-11-15 13:18|| 2007-11-15 13:18|| Front Page Top

#10 Liberalhawk, while what you wrote may all be well and good with respect to the mind of the voter, the fact of the matter is that Afghanistan really is more of a quagmire than Iraq and potentially far less winnable.

Afghanistan has the following:

1. A source of income for the Taliban (opium) that the coalition forces refuse to deal with.
2. Neighboring sancutary for Taliban fighters and senior leadership where they are actually running the "government"...think Hanoi with a near complete air cover shield.
3. Huge numbers of ready and willing tribal savages ready to come over and have gun sex.
4. Basic backwardness and tribal nature of Afghanistan. The concept of a nation is something that is probably not on most of its citizen's radar, regardless of tribal affiliation.

How long until the voter forgets or even doesn't give a damn why we got into Afghanistan, but instead just wants out? Watch the Euros grow tired and run away in the next 12-18 months.

Posted by remoteman 2007-11-15 13:23|| 2007-11-15 13:23|| Front Page Top

#11 How long until the voter forgets or even doesn't give a damn why we got into Afghanistan, but instead just wants out?

Depends on how the MSM plays the story. We aren't leaving Iraq any time soon, so Afghanistan will probably continue to be the good war as long as we are engaged in Iraq. The cost and casualties are sustainable. Afghanistan certainly isn't as much fun to cover as Iraq, what with the absence of three star hotels and restaurants. So I could see it being a low profile story for some time.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-11-15 13:35|| 2007-11-15 13:35|| Front Page Top

#12 "1. A source of income for the Taliban (opium) that the coalition forces refuse to deal with."

I dont know that they refuse to deal with it, but that theyve discovered that spraying it only alienates the locals more. Anyway the Iraqi insurgency rarely seems to have been constrained by lack of money.

"2. Neighboring sancutary for Taliban fighters and senior leadership where they are actually running the "government"...think Hanoi with a near complete air cover shield."

which is more likely succeed, doing something about Waziristan, or about Iranian meddling in Iraq. And Iran can do more than smuggle weapons, they can intervene in the politics to muddy the waters. At least the govt of Afghanistan KNOWS the taqfiris in NWFP are their enemies, Maliki doesnt seem to know if the Iranians are his enemy or not.

"3. Huge numbers of ready and willing tribal savages ready to come over and have gun sex."

Im not sure what the total number of available Pashtuns is. Anyway, until recently the Iraqi insurgency wasnt constrained by numbers.

"4. Basic backwardness and tribal nature of Afghanistan. The concept of a nation is something that is probably not on most of its citizen's radar, regardless of tribal affiliation."

Whereas in Iraq the concept of a nation IS on the citizens radar, except that for 20% of the citizens its the Kurdish nation, and for 25% its either the Arab nation, or at least an Iraq run by Sunni Arabs, and for the rest its an Iraq in which Sunni Arab power is crushed beyond all hope of recovery. Afghanistans tribes may be a better base for a stable state, if not a democratic one. Afghanistan in the decades prior to the Daud coup was in fact quite stable.

"How long until the voter forgets"

Impossible. The meme that "Iraq was a mistake, cause Saddam wasnt involved in 9/11" serves as a constant reminder that Afghanistan WAS involved.

"or even doesn't give a damn why we got into Afghanistan, but instead just wants out?"

hmmm, several thousand more US combat deaths would be needed at a minimum. Which is unlikely anytime soon, considering the much smaller footprint we have in Afghanistan.

"Watch the Euros grow tired and run away in the next 12-18 months."

Well that hardly proves anything even if it happened, theyre all weenies anyway, right? And I dont think the French and Germans are going to run - since their troops arent really in harms way, why should they? Brits, coming out of Iraq, arent about to come out of Afghanistan.

Maybe Canadians and Dutch will pull out, I dont know.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2007-11-15 15:16|| 2007-11-15 15:16|| Front Page Top

#13 I dont know that they refuse to deal with it, but that theyve discovered that spraying it only alienates the locals more. Anyway the Iraqi insurgency rarely seems to have been constrained by lack of money.

The way I see it, nothing changes between leaving the poppy farmers alone and spraying their crops. The only difference is that they go from pouring money into Taliban coffers to picking up a gun. If I were king, I'd take option two. The best way to do that would be to bomb the village first then spray the poppies. In fact, why the heck don't they declare these poppy farmers to be enemy financiers or combatants or something?

Posted by gorb 2007-11-15 18:20|| 2007-11-15 18:20|| Front Page Top

#14 Maybe we ought to establish a portion of Afghanistan as Talibistan.

The citizens of that province could enjoy the Talib led Islamic Paradise.

The citizens outside of the province could enjoy the lack of such a paradise.

Posted by mhw 2007-11-15 19:47|| 2007-11-15 19:47|| Front Page Top

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