Article

2007-09-04 Europe

11 jihad jailbirds on hunger strike in Spain

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Posted by Seafarious 2007-09-04 00:00|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top

#1 said the strikers' health would be monitored.

Me, raising hand...: "Is it really necessary?"

Posted by twobyfour 2007-09-04 00:28|| 2007-09-04 00:28|| Front Page Top

#2 Anyone who has been in a European train station, would be well aware that they are totally blanketed with security cameras. The terrorists were nailed by video evidence.

Posted by McZoid 2007-09-04 01:44|| 2007-09-04 01:44|| Front Page Top

#3 Nope. The terrorists were not nailed by video evidence. It was by tracking the phone card in a rucksack who was discovered unexploded in the trains. Or more exactly the rucksack popped up in a police station between the pieces of evidence who had been collected.

Now. Let's think about it: there have been bombs exploding and the police sees that most unusual object (a rucksack is not common in commuter trains), an unusually heavy one who also happens to be a potential bomb container and simply bring it to police station without inspecting it? Should we assume that Spanish policemen have a death wish.

And then there the many funny things in the investigation like the hatge in detroying th train, the fact that no analysis of the explosives was performed (and pieces of evidence were later found to have been washed with acetone) and policemen who have been charged with lying in the investigation.

Oh, and a few weeks later there was an attempt to derail the high speed train but teh terrorists (supposedly memebers of the same ring) used a differnet and much more primitive technique.

Plus the opportune deaths of the Lavapies rings were the Spanish swats stormed the appartment without the usual softening (a first in their history) and were after the terrorists had been firing to the policemen for hours no shelmls were found.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-09-04 07:10|| 2007-09-04 07:10|| Front Page Top

#4 So, JFM, are these particular Muslims actually innocent? If so, who did blow up the trains? The style is not Basque separatist. The only similarly vicious and callous attacks I can recall in Spain were during the Civil War - were these train attacks a return to Fascist or Stalinist groups?

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-09-04 08:18|| 2007-09-04 08:18|| Front Page Top

#5 I'd weld their cell doors shut so they won't succumb to temptation.
Wouldn't wanmna disappoint Big Mo, would ya, boys?

Posted by tu3031 2007-09-04 08:48|| 2007-09-04 08:48|| Front Page Top

#6 Latest: One of the accused in the Madrid bombings had been temporary released until judgement.

Personal opinion: Given the amgnitude of the crime I doubt if he would have been released unless judges think he is innocent.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-09-04 09:34|| 2007-09-04 09:34|| Front Page Top

#7 Ok, the words filter erased my comment. Sigh. Here I go again... and again... and again... sigh, 5th try (thank for Copy & Paste)... 6th... 7th... 8th

were these train attacks a return to Fascist or Stalinist groups?

I doubt there is any fascist group in Spain, and the commies are basically extinct, left-overs from the 70's (though it can be argued the basques are originally leftists with a racial streak).

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-09-04 09:52|| 2007-09-04 09:52|| Front Page Top

#8 Suite... to try to isolate the forbidden word...

I'd like JFM to give us his opinion on that, but from what he's hinted, I might think it could be an AQ/eta (or eta fri*nges, at the very least) joint-venture...

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-09-04 09:53|| 2007-09-04 09:53|| Front Page Top

#9 Ok, for some reason, it won't make it past the word filter, time to reword it; basically, the idea is that there either was some kind of support by the clandestine police apparatus of the PSE (cf. the GAL), or a conspiracy/cover up from the same to incriminate Aznar and make him lose power, much to the joy of the eurabians.

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-09-04 09:58|| 2007-09-04 09:58|| Front Page Top

#10 Joy! The word is soci9li9sts.
And to cover the eta complicity, and the possible link with soci9l9sts-friendly spanish police or intelligence.

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-09-04 10:01|| 2007-09-04 10:01|| Front Page Top

#11 another annoying key word is Symph0ny? odd that,

Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-09-04 10:07|| 2007-09-04 10:07|| Front Page Top

#12 Fred's filter must be set to 'randomize' again...

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2007-09-04 11:23|| 2007-09-04 11:23|| Front Page Top

#13 Well, as long as it's not set to "puree"...

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-09-04 11:52|| 2007-09-04 11:52|| Front Page Top

#14 The spam filter kicked out "that word" not because "so_ _ _ _ _ _t" is forbidden, if you know what I mean :)

Posted by mrp 2007-09-04 12:41|| 2007-09-04 12:41|| Front Page Top

#15 I had the same problem trying to post a link to muslims cartoons about the Jews and the US. I tried fooling around with the word "anti-semitic" in the link, but never got the post accepted.

Posted by ed 2007-09-04 13:07|| 2007-09-04 13:07|| Front Page Top

#16 Don't feel bad. The Filter Of Death (and annoying spam & pr0n) is evenhanded - it rejects a lot of moderator comments too.

Posted by lotp 2007-09-04 13:25|| 2007-09-04 13:25|| Front Page Top

#17 Glenmore and a5089

Sorry for the delay but I had my post refused twice.

First I believe that some of the accused (at least those arrested before the elections) had no part in the bombings and weren't even part of an islamist cell. There are others who were islamists and up to no good (like the failed bombing of the high speed train) but did they perpetrate these bombings?

Now you are wrong about this not being ETA's style. In pre-democracy ETA this was true but in late years they have tried to sink a ferry (potentially 1400 victims), to destroy Madrid's highest bulding (5000 potential victims) and to bomb Madrid's two main railway stations on Christmas eve (hundreds or thousands victims had they succeeded). Every time they were thwarted so we don't know for sure if they would have phoned a warning or not. We do know for sure that one of its leaders said: "The day we will negotiate we must put 200 hundred dead on the table" and we doknow for sure that another admlires islamists for their ruthlessness and advocates alliance with them. Also some ETArras have converted to islam.

About the bombings. Do you think islamists just wanted to kill infidels and the choice of date was fortuitous? Or do you think the goal was to put Zapatero in power?

If you believe the later then considxer that it was not the bombings by themselves who toppled the Popular Party (Spain's conservative party) but the conjuction of three factors: the bombings, arrests the day before the elections and an agitprop campaign led by PRISA (Spain's biggest MSM group who owes a lot of favors to the PSOE like beiung allowed to break the law and being handled former state owned radio network at a ridiculous price). During the Friday Prisa began to give inforamtion avout the islamist possibility contradicting the governement (who was given the info only hours later by the police). In the afternoon of Saturday Prisa began telling that police had discovered the remains of a suicide bomber (a lie), then groups of leftists tried to storm and burn the sieges of the Popular Party while screaming "Aznar, assasin" and "That is for Irak". Prisa's radio network was brodacasting the demos live and every five minutes a femal off-voice repeated: Demonstrations are totally spontaneous" and "The police has found the reamins of a suicide bomber" That was what changed the result of the election.

Arrests the islamists could provide by purposefully planting evidence leading the police to them (but see previous posts about how much of this evidence just pops up from thin air). But they couldn't provide for the media campaign and for the retention of information by the police (who gave the impression Aznar was lying). So either the authors hoped the bombings would start the ball rolling and that PSOE's and PRISA's corruption would do the rest or... or instigators and PSOE/PRISA had coordinated in advance.

So if you believe choice of date was not fortuitous then the logical conclusion is that something smells rotten in the kingdom of Spain. (Just for showing that I have read Hamlet).

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-09-04 14:52|| 2007-09-04 14:52|| Front Page Top

#18 That's very interesting food for thoughts, JFM, thanks.

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-09-04 15:19|| 2007-09-04 15:19|| Front Page Top

#19 Yeah, but how do you explain that it was exactly 911 days between the bombings of 9/11 and the Madrid train bombings? You think ETA is that mathematically jocular when it comes to timing their little to-dos?

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2007-09-04 15:56|| 2007-09-04 15:56|| Front Page Top

#20 Both ETA and islamists lack a sense of humour. But you could aslo think that smeone noticed tha the 911th day after 9/11 was close to the idela day so they decided for that day. Also I wouldn't swear it wasn't PRISA who began to point at the "coincidence" ikn tezh days of the conspiracy.

Listen I have only have dissected the possibilities and thre are only thre: date of bombings and elections are a coincidence or there are not. In the case where bombings aimed at altering elections then either it was a "blindman's blow" ie islamists just hoped, (pêrhaps because they had studied Spain's political class) that Zapatero's friends would do the rest or they knew in advance Zapatero and PRISA would act like they did. If they knew in advance then it implies concertation between PSOE and islamists.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-09-04 17:18|| 2007-09-04 17:18|| Front Page Top

#21 anonymous5089

ETA (and the moderate muslims nationalist of PNV) are inspired by Sabino Arana a Basque who only spoke Spanish :-) but who believed that the Basque were racially superior not only to the Spanish but to every other race in world. Of course when you only Basque country instead of Germany you can't dream of conquering the world but you get the idea.

Also when you look at the pro-ETA zones in Basque country they coincide with the strongholds of Carlism ( a XIXth century spanish movement who advocated a return to absolutism). Under a letftist barnish you find a deeply reactionary and racist ideology.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-09-04 17:26|| 2007-09-04 17:26|| Front Page Top

#22 anonymous5089

ETA (and the moderate ~~muslims~~ nationalist of PNV) are inspired by Sabino Arana a Basque who only spoke Spanish :-) but who believed that the Basque were racially superior not only to the Spanish but to every other race in world. Of course when you only Basque country instead of Germany you can't dream of conquering the world but you get the idea.

Also when you look at the pro-ETA zones in Basque country they coincide with the strongholds of Carlism ( a XIXth century spanish movement who advocated a return to absolutism). Under a letftist barnish you find a deeply reactionary and racist ideology.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-09-04 17:27|| 2007-09-04 17:27|| Front Page Top

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