Article

2007-01-22 India-Pakistan

Russia blocks sale of Chinese jets to Pakistan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by john 2007-01-22 05:56|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The Chinese have failed miserably in their engine development efforts. They are unable to copy the Russian jet engines and were forced to buy hundreds of RD-93 and AL-31 engines for Chinese made and assembled aircraft.

Posted by john 2007-01-22 06:01|| 2007-01-22 06:01|| Front Page Top

#2 India is expected to announce during Mr. Ivanov's visit its choice between two Russian concepts of a multi-role stealth fighter plane of the 5th generation that the Russian aviation majors, Sukhoi and MIG, presented to the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) last year.

...I wouldn't be so sure on that. The Indians are a patient people, but they aren't likely to wait ten years for the Sukhoi and MiG bureaux to keep extorting 'just a little more money' out of them for a plane that's never quite ready to fly. The fact of the matter is that both bureaus have made extravagant claims about their new birds, and most of them haven't panned out. Sukhoi has their Berkut , which is a good plane - the equivalent to the early 90s variants of the F-18 - but technologically is a warmed-over Su-27. MiG's last major combat project was a bird they unveiled a couple years ago that looked suspiciously like the one in the movie Firefox - and as near as can be told, still hasn't flown.
The Indians might be talking to the Russians to stay polite, but I suspect they'll be flying F/A-18s or F-16s - or possibly the USMC versions of the F-35 - before long.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2007-01-22 06:37|| 2007-01-22 06:37|| Front Page Top

#3 Actually Mike, Sukhois bid was the PAK-FA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA

Something which they have failed to even finalize what it looks like. Outside of some artist renderings there is no concept demonstrator or model.

Posted by Valentine 2007-01-22 11:22|| 2007-01-22 11:22|| Front Page Top

#4 Oh those promiscuous Russians now teasing India with promises of 5th gen fighters. Is there faith no more between Russia and China's 5th gen?

Posted by ed 2007-01-22 11:42|| 2007-01-22 11:42|| Front Page Top

#5 The real question is why is Pakistan bothering there are far better things they should be spending their cash on than fighter jets.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-01-22 11:49|| 2007-01-22 11:49|| Front Page Top

#6 Pakistan went halfsies on the development of the JF-17 and build components for it. At the time there was a US arms embargo on the Paks for their nuclear program. The Paks are way outnumbered by India's Air Force.

Posted by ed 2007-01-22 12:05|| 2007-01-22 12:05|| Front Page Top

#7 Valentine-
Thanks for the heads up. BTW, here's the MiG I mentioned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_Project_1.44

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2007-01-22 12:33|| 2007-01-22 12:33|| Front Page Top

#8 Still and all, it's rather curious why Putie would put the block on ChiComs on this sale. Russians make most of their defense dollars by selling 2nd-3rd generation technology to ChiComs. ChiComs dispense at will. Why would Russkies disrupt the pipeline now ? By the by, Putin is moving to consolidate Mig/Sukhoi design bureaus into one entity with some new name. What's more significant is that Boeing has performed a technology sellout debacle rivaling Loral/Chicoms. They have set up design divisions in Moscow which interacts worldwide on the 787 design, giving Russians access to the latest design software, build technology, fly-by-wire fiber optics, weather radar, etc. A bonanza. Russians are excellent already at science basics like CFD, but just need computational solver power to pull level with any US competency. Think any of this knowledge will leak over to the military design staffs. Naw, me either.

Posted by SpecOp35 2007-01-22 12:37|| 2007-01-22 12:37|| Front Page Top

#9 ed, I agree the Paks are way outnumberd by the Indians but it's not just the numbers. I do not believe Pakistan has a prayer of building up an airforce capable to dealing with India. This has to do with training, quality of maitanance and numbers. Pakistan would be better off building (a) missiles (b) anti-aircraft defenses.

Fighter jets are a foolish pride purchase (like India's carrier) that is not going to give them what they want in the long run because they'll be afraid of losing them, and losing face, and thus losing a war.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-01-22 13:05|| 2007-01-22 13:05|| Front Page Top

#10 They have set up design divisions in Moscow which interacts worldwide on the 787 design, giving Russians access to the latest design software, build technology, fly-by-wire fiber optics, weather radar, etc.

Interesting. Does this mean we will see air-superiority and strike-fighter versions of the 787?

The only reason I can think of for Russia to block sales to the Pakis is because they want a bigger piece of the action. The Russians would sell their grandmothers for hard cash.

Posted by SteveS 2007-01-22 13:33|| 2007-01-22 13:33|| Front Page Top

#11 Interesting. Does this mean we will see air-superiority and strike-fighter versions of the 787?

I for one would love to see that.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-01-22 13:47|| 2007-01-22 13:47|| Front Page Top

#12 Interesting. Does this mean we will see air-superiority and strike-fighter versions of the 787?

I'm sure Airbus would then ask the French and German governments to finance a strike-fighter version of the A380.

Posted by DoDo 2007-01-22 19:09|| 2007-01-22 19:09|| Front Page Top

#13 The only reason I can think of for Russia to block sales to the Pakis is because they want a bigger piece of the action.

This is the soothing balm to Indians irritated at the Russian veto on exports of the Brahmos Cruise Missile.

India objected to the engine transfer to Pak.

Posted by john 2007-01-22 19:27|| 2007-01-22 19:27|| Front Page Top

#14 "MIG/SUKHOI design bureaus into one entity" - no surprise here, as have been saying/arguing that since the 1990's. Sukhoi > was post-USSR's Russia's PC medium of vital internat tech transfer to the military-only/centric MIG Bureau. As for CHINA, their self-proclaimed war agz the USA and only the USA was to begin as early as Year 2014 [actually 2012-2014]. NO ENGINES > ANTI-US WAR MAY HAVE TO BE DELAYED.

OTOH, PRAVDA today > America may DESTROY THE MOON searching for Helium-3 as fuel alternative. WHY WAIT FOR YEAR 2029-2030 + COMET APOPHIS, etal. events. Theres also WORLDTRIBUNE > LAVROZOV > dead Chinese activist claimed that, besides a hidden agenda for defeating = destroying America, CHICOMS also have a plan to get rid of approxi 3.0Bilyuuuhn of world's population. CAN'T WE JUST ALL FEEL THE LOVE?

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-01-22 20:45|| 2007-01-22 20:45|| Front Page Top

23:49 gromgoru
23:42 gromgoru
23:38 Atomic Conspiracy
23:24 Skidmark
22:58 Skidmark
22:56 Pappy
22:55 Skidmark
22:47 Pappy
22:27 Barbara Skolaut
22:18 49 Pan
22:17 Atomic Conspiracy
22:08 CrazyFool
22:06 Skidmark
21:59 JosephMendiola
21:57 Chuck Simmins
21:56 JosephMendiola
21:48 JosephMendiola
21:37 Frank G
21:33 twobyfour
21:17 Chuck Simmins
21:01 Swamp Blondie
20:52 KBK
20:52 JosephMendiola
20:45 JosephMendiola