Article

2006-03-27 Iraq

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Posted by Steve 2006-03-27 08:03|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 In one remarkable incident, soldiers publicly confronted Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld about the problem on live television.

Forgot to mention that was a setup by a scheming reporter and a planted army guy.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2006-03-27 09:36|| 2006-03-27 09:36|| Front Page Top

#2 This was an expensive CYA from DoD. The Marines made this point clear before the extra body armor was distributed.

It would be nice if the MSM didn't drive the DoD's decisions, and the Marines on the ground did.

Posted by Captain America 2006-03-27 09:37|| 2006-03-27 09:37|| Front Page Top

#3 They need to offload some of the other shit they are dragging around. If 5 lbs. saves you, you need that 5 lbs. I'm sure they are lugging other items they could do with out.

Posted by SOP35/Rat 2006-03-27 11:30|| 2006-03-27 11:30|| Front Page Top

#4 WTG MSM another one in the "Win" column for you.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2006-03-27 11:43|| 2006-03-27 11:43|| Front Page Top

#5 They need to offload some of the other shit they are dragging around. If 5 lbs. saves you, you need that 5 lbs. I'm sure they are lugging other items they could do with out.

Like ammo?

Posted by Iblis">Iblis 2006-03-27 12:01|| 2006-03-27 12:01|| Front Page Top

#6 Maybe water? That's a great headline - "Troops die of dehydration due to reduction of water bottle size".

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2006-03-27 12:06|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2006-03-27 12:06|| Front Page Top

#7 Well! The nerve of those soldiers and Marines! After all the trouble we went through to help! Just shows how ignorant those folks are, volunteering for war!

But choice is not an option for those that know more than the 'rest of us', so it prolly will be made mandatory, until we see the story about how a guy fell onto a land mine because he lost his balance; then the cry will be, "Too heavy!"

Posted by Bobby 2006-03-27 12:09|| 2006-03-27 12:09|| Front Page Top

#8 This body armor controversy is a rerun of the combat helmet issue during the Vietnam War. David Hackworth, a battalion commander during the war, wrote about how many soldiers in Vietnam hated wearing their helmets because of the heat and because they got in the way, preferring bandannas. But he always made them wear their helmets, because they slowed down bullet and shell fragments in a way that bandannas wouldn't.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-03-27 12:09|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2006-03-27 12:09|| Front Page Top

#9 Hackworth had a very personal reason for knowing that the helmets save lives. While he was serving in Korea, he got shot in the head. Luckily for him, the act of penetrating his helmet saved him by changing the angle of the bullet and it just sort of skimmed around his head and only damaged his hearing a little. So while yes, the helmet didn't stop the bullet, it kept his brains in his head. Read his book sometime and you'll learn that Hackworth was the cat with 9 lives. The poor guy nearly died and should have died so many times, it's not even funny.

Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick 2006-03-27 12:19|| 2006-03-27 12:19|| Front Page Top

#10 "many Marines here promptly stuck it in lockers or under bunks. Too heavy and cumbersome"

I told you so.

Posted by OldSpook 2006-03-27 12:43|| 2006-03-27 12:43|| Front Page Top

#11 This is a major problem. It has nothing to do with armor but everything to do with who's in command. Patten should have shot the coward. Then, he should have shot the press. This crap is what gets people killed. If the press wants armor, then they can buy and wear their own.

Posted by wxjames 2006-03-27 12:55|| 2006-03-27 12:55|| Front Page Top

#12 I'm speaking from experience. We rarely wore armor in Nam. But many of us wish we had. And wish we had the current ceramic plates that actually stop some of these rounds. Yeah, ammo is one of the heaviest items to lug around. these guys are basically on roads, unlike us. They can carry the ammo in an accompanying vehicle. I know how heavy these items get, but it's worth it. I know.

Posted by SOP35/Rat 2006-03-27 14:32|| 2006-03-27 14:32|| Front Page Top

#13 On road?

Nope. On patrol in cities. Foot patrols. and in a firefight you cannot depend on getting back tot he Stryker or LAV for a reload.

You go with what you have.

And its not always about weight. Its about tactical mobility: your ability to bend, twist move, sprint quickly from a stop, crawl, jump up, etc. Quickly.

Some of the body armor provides too much weight. Some of it too much rigidity.

Its each individual squad leader that shoudl be deciding this - based on his commander's intnet and the tactical situation.

If you're pulling airguard out the back hatch or a track, or the top of a Humvee, then you want the extra plate, etc.

If you're doing a tactical cordon and clear, going room to room, dealing with stairs, etc, you need more mobility.

So, providing this array of body armor is good, but mandating this stuff is stupid and wrong.

Funny that Congress, Dems and the Press seem to be playing the role of LBJ (meddling destructive micromanagement) in Vietnam here, and that the President is actually allowing the theater chain of command put responsibility at the echelon where it sits best - letting the professionals do what they have been trianed to do.

Posted by OldSpook 2006-03-27 15:40|| 2006-03-27 15:40|| Front Page Top

#14 Just think how much armor our troops could wear if we took away their ammo *and* their guns!

Better yet. Seal each soldier into a reinforced concrete bunker! We could call it something catchy, like Maginot Line...

Posted by Iblis">Iblis 2006-03-27 15:56|| 2006-03-27 15:56|| Front Page Top

#15 Arac.
This helmet, I suppose,
Was meant to ward off blows,
It's very hot
And weighs a lot,
As many a guardsman knows,
As many a guardsman knows,
As many a guardsman knows,
As many a guardsman knows,
So off, so off that helmet goes.
(Giving their helmets to attendants.)
Chorus.
Yes, yes, yes,
So off that helmet goes!

Arac.
This tight-fitting cuirass
Is but a useless mass,
It's made of steel,
And weighs a deal,
This tight-fitting cuirass
Is but a useless mass,
A man is but an ass
Who fights in a cuirass,
So off, so off goes that cuirass.
(Removing cuirasses.)
Chorus.
Yes, yes, yes,
So off goes that cuirass!
These brassets, truth to tell,
May look uncommon well,
But in a fight
They're much too tight,
They're like a lobster shell,
They're like a lobster shell!
(Removing their brassets)
Chorus.
Yes, yes, yes,
They're like a lobster shell.
Arac.
These things I treat the same
(Indicating leg pieces.)
(I quite forget their name.)
They turn one's legs
To cribbage pegs
Their aid I thus disclaim,
Their aid I thus disclaim,
Though I forget their name,
Though I forget their name,
Their aid, their aid I thus disclaim!
All.
Yes, yes, yes,
Their aid I thus disclaim!

Posted by bruce 2006-03-27 19:08|| 2006-03-27 19:08|| Front Page Top

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