Article

2004-07-12 Europe

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Posted by Korora 2004-07-12 9:58:09 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 In France today, most preaching of Islam is, in effect, an incitement to violence. Similarly, the Koran itself is an incitement to violence.

Some country somewhere should have this debate.

Posted by mhw 2004-07-12 10:43:27 AM|| 2004-07-12 10:43:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Nothing will happen until the Chirac mentality of never use aggression to counter aggression goes the way of the do-do bird.

Posted by jules 187 2004-07-12 10:47:29 AM|| 2004-07-12 10:47:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 repost from yesterday - see yesterday's for Mike Sylwester's apologist foolishness. Aaarrrgghh

Posted by Frank G 2004-07-12 10:52:42 AM|| 2004-07-12 10:52:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 The attack has sparked outrage from politicians and religious leaders, with President Jacques Chirac expressing a sense of "dread".

"Dread"? This typically implies that something is coming and that little or nothing can be done about it. On the contrary, taking action can and should be done about this now, while it is relatively easy.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-07-12 10:57:34 AM|| 2004-07-12 10:57:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Right, Bomb-a-Rama. Your comment and mine are connected. France is living in a dream world, quickly approaching re-entry to the real world--via Islamic violence. It's not that nothing can be done; it's that they WILL nothing to be done.

Posted by jules 187 2004-07-12 11:09:11 AM|| 2004-07-12 11:09:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I should amend my comments-whether this turns out to be Islamic or neo-Nazi violence against Jews, France still needs to wake up.

Posted by jules 187 2004-07-12 11:11:53 AM|| 2004-07-12 11:11:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 B-a-r - I agree. I 'cringe' every time I hear poltiticans etc use sappy passive words like 'fear', and 'dread'. Personally, I find 'terrorism' regrettable - it may be the intent of the murders to sow terror in a population, but most societies exposed to prolonged 'terror' campaigns learn to live with it. The average Israeli couldn't be described as 'terrified', not could your average Northern Irelander have been, even when the troubles were at their worst. As a Brit, the IRA were supposed to have been 'terrifying' me for quite a few years. They never succeeded - they did anger me, though.

Posted by Bulldog 2004-07-12 11:12:28 AM|| 2004-07-12 11:12:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 What bothers me most about this attack is how a half-dozen passengers sat by and did nothing. It reminds me of the Kitty Genovese incident in New York a couple of decades ago.

Sure, fine, you don't think you can go mano-a-mano with several attackers. But can't you slip away and dial the police on your cell phone?

Someone needs to remind the Frenchies that civilization is something that everyone has to fight for, together.

Posted by Steve White 2004-07-12 11:48:08 AM|| 2004-07-12 11:48:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 jules you need to add
never use aggression to counter aggression except when the aggressor is a 4th rate
small african country

Posted by Dan 2004-07-12 11:57:42 AM|| 2004-07-12 11:57:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Hmmm, Dan. A reference to the history of the old empire or an interesting, more current tidbit?

Posted by jules 187 2004-07-12 12:15:04 PM|| 2004-07-12 12:15:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Read with interest that the woman wasn't a Jew, like it should even matter.

The thugs were mistaken, she wasn't a Jew. She was just an innocent citizen, wrong place, wrong time.

Dan, remember Atta's instructions to the doomed passengers on his flight of fake martyrdom, something like "stay in your seats, everything will be alright."

I hope those days are over!

Posted by Lucky 2004-07-12 12:33:04 PM|| 2004-07-12 12:33:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Jules, I thought I read a report that stated that these lowlifes were of North African origin.

Typically Neo Nazi bad guys only making to the Hollywood screen or the pages of comic books these days. It not PC to portray Muslims as terrorists.

Posted by danking70 2004-07-12 12:52:14 PM|| 2004-07-12 12:52:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 jules - well i would say a reference to history and current affairs - when it is africa the french never complain and actually take the lead (un or without the un)..they have to it is their only prospect of winning over their foes.....the french do not know which way they are going...

#11 - those day's are over..as for me if i am on a plane that is hijacked i will not 'stay in my seat'...the day's of hijacking a plane for purely polictical reasons are over...at least in the mindset of the majority of americans, to us it is a purley military operation that needs to be confronted....

my apologies for ranting off topic of the post...

Posted by Dan 2004-07-12 12:55:41 PM|| 2004-07-12 12:55:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Expect lip service from Jacques the Worm and nothing else. My suggestion to him is STFU unless you are actually going to go after the cesspools in your country.

Posted by FlameBait93268 2004-07-12 1:06:02 PM|| 2004-07-12 1:06:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 According to this report, the attackers were North African. According to the IHT, they got off at the Sarcelles station.

Posted by 11A5S 2004-07-12 1:07:07 PM|| 2004-07-12 1:07:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I should explain that Sarcelles is to Paris as the Bronx is to New York city in terms of gang violence and crime.

Posted by 11A5S 2004-07-12 1:08:49 PM|| 2004-07-12 1:08:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Lucky-good point. Of primary importance to them-since they insisted she was Jewish and then committed the crime-was Jewishness itself.

danking70-It not PC to portray Muslims as terrorists. Yep. So they can't be shown as terrorists-funny how that PC code simultaneously serves the purposes of people who deny you can be Muslim and a terrorist.

Posted by jules 187 2004-07-12 1:13:20 PM|| 2004-07-12 1:13:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Re: #8
"About 20 people saw what happened, but none came to the aid of the victim, the police said, adding that only two passengers approached afterward."

Source: http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/

Posted by Michael Sheehan 2004-07-12 1:41:29 PM|| 2004-07-12 1:41:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Bernard Getz+Arizona gun law=dead assholes.
For those who do not know Getz was on a New york city subway when he was assaulted in an attempted mugging,he shot the f^&kers.However N.Y.'s gun law being just as stupid as Britain Mr.Getz spent a couple of years in prision for defending hisself.The bright side 2 or 3 punks ain't gonna bother no-one anymore.

Posted by raptor 2004-07-12 1:53:09 PM|| 2004-07-12 1:53:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#20
see yesterday's for Mike Sylwester's apologist foolishness. Aaarrrgghh

Frank, if I'm wrong I'll eat crow publicly. It won't be the first time in my sorry life!
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-07-12 2:57:59 PM|| 2004-07-12 2:57:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Lucky, Jules-- I'm in the sad position of almost finding myself willing to put $10 down on the possibility that France will try to tag the Jews so the "rightful anger" of the Islamists will have a more easily identified target. I don't see much in the reporting of the incident that indicates French anger at the underlying Antisemitism of the act, but rather at the fact that the woman was mistakenly targeted as a Jew. It's lip service against Antisemitism.

Posted by therien 2004-07-12 3:12:36 PM|| 2004-07-12 3:12:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Therien-Quant a la pretense, probablement vous avez raison.

But TAG...how?

Posted by jules 187 2004-07-12 4:34:07 PM|| 2004-07-12 4:34:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 I tried to post an article (actually just comments) about a Fox News interview with John Loftus.

He said that Khadafi will speak in front of the IAEA in September and give evidence/information about Khan's Nuclear Black Market.

Loftus then went on the say that the Intelligence buzz is that Khadafi will also state that Saddam outsourced his WMD programs to Libya in order to avoid scrutiny.

Did anyone else catch this show yesterday? I can't find a transcript.

Why can't I post a headline?

Posted by danking70 2004-07-12 4:59:26 PM|| 2004-07-12 4:59:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Caught it somewhat, pretty interesting D-70.

Posted by Lucky 2004-07-12 5:15:42 PM|| 2004-07-12 5:15:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Same information from the International Herald Tribune. Byline is Ariane Bernard of NYT.

Posted by Pappy 2004-07-12 5:20:20 PM|| 2004-07-12 5:20:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Danking...your post goes into the holding tank for review by a moderator. If it's ok, they'll put it up shortly. If it's not ok, I got no clue what happens to it. Prolly grind it up and feed it to the trolls in the sink trap.

Posted by Seafarious 2004-07-12 5:21:38 PM|| 2004-07-12 5:21:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Thanks Seafarious,

The Moderator should expect about 5 of the exact same postings. LOL!

Posted by danking70 2004-07-12 5:23:51 PM|| 2004-07-12 5:23:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 With all due respect, there continues to be some significant questions regarding this alleged crime.

Doubts amid swastika attack hunt.

The trains involved have video security cameras so all of this should be cleared up soon enough. Once again, I'm obliged to note that all of the vitriol directed at Mike S. during yesterday's feeding frenzy reduced Rantburg's overall tenor just that much more.

When posted online, threats of violence and the like merely come across as the usual tripe volcano. Facts are what spill best from a computer's keyboard.

Posted by Zenster 2004-07-12 5:54:09 PM|| 2004-07-12 5:54:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Commuters who saw the attack on the busy train are being urged to speak to the police. Would be nice if some bystander actually tried to help a young mother being meanced by six thugs. But I forget: 1) It happenned in France, and 2) The bystanders thought she was a Jew.

Posted by A Jackson 2004-07-12 6:06:12 PM|| 2004-07-12 6:06:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Frank, if I'm wrong I'll eat crow publicly. It won't be the first time in my sorry life!

Mike - I'll do the same

Posted by Frank G 2004-07-12 6:26:18 PM|| 2004-07-12 6:26:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 mmmmmmmmmmmm.....crow........tastes like chicken!

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-07-12 6:39:30 PM|| 2004-07-12 6:39:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Jules--Sprechen Sie Deutsch? :)
I doubt the "tag" would be anything as anachronistic as yellow armbands or tatoos, but I'm reluctant to put anything past the French. Recent efforts to convince Jewish males to wear baseball caps in lieu of more traditional headgear to avoid conflict hints at a sinister sentiment: Jews can't look like Jews and get away with it.

Posted by therien 2004-07-12 7:03:30 PM|| 2004-07-12 7:03:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 They smell funny too.
/lifebuoy

Posted by Shipman 2004-07-12 7:28:35 PM|| 2004-07-12 7:28:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Therien-

Ein bisschen. Ich vergesse viele.

Posted by jules 2 2004-07-12 8:59:52 PM|| 2004-07-12 8:59:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Zenster4doo, there were no threats of violence directed against
Mike here and lots of links were 'spilled' from several keyboards to counter his (and now your) crap posted to counter his arguments.
Given reactions like his and yours and the CNN story you cite, I'm now beginning to see how stories about the Holocaust out of Nazi Germany weren't believed in WWII.
Shameful counterspinning on both your and MS's part.

Posted by Jen 2004-07-12 9:06:36 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-07-12 9:06:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Therien,

Welche Nationalitaet haben Sie? Die Name klingt wie Franzoesich aus, aber...

Posted by trailing wife 2004-07-12 11:24:47 PM|| 2004-07-12 11:24:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 TW--sorry, I'm American, but the name is essentially French-Canadian. Google just the name, go with the first thing you see that seems an interesting pursuit.
I'm really thinking of getting a new pseudonym, more in line with my very German/English name. Perhaps a partial anagram, "Asedwich."

Posted by therien 2004-07-13 11:11:18 PM|| 2004-07-13 11:11:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Le Figaro reports that the woman has confessed that she made it all up.

I remember a similar case in Germany that stirred up some shit, too.

Too bad, because when the next victim turns up, she or he will have a harder time to be believed. But next time it could indeed be true.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-07-13 11:19:00 PM|| 2004-07-13 11:19:00 PM|| Front Page Top

13:12 FlameBait93268
13:12 FlameBait93268
01:44 Yup
01:28 Truth
18:00 Glereper Cligum7229
23:19 True German Ally
23:11 therien
16:03 Aris Katsaris
15:27 Raj
15:20 Aris Katsaris
12:21 ed
12:05 Aris Katsaris
09:46 muck4doo
06:11 Bulldog
01:00 Edward Yee
00:50 Wuzzalib
00:44 trailing wife
00:31 Phil Fraering
00:03 The Doctor
23:53 Anonymoose
23:48 Bomb-a-rama
23:43 Bomb-a-rama
23:41 Edward Yee
23:38 Phil Fraering