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2004-06-30 Great White North

Canadian Jews hope election tally wonât undermine support for Israel

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Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-06-30 04:00|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "Canadian Jews hope election tally
wonât undermine support for Israel". Hey, hope instead that Canada's continued pro-Islamic social policies don't undermine support for Jews in Canada. At least the border is a short drive for y'all if the Islamohammer comes down. The Jews in France have a long goddamn swim if they get driven into the English Channel.

Posted by Mitch H. 2004-06-30 8:45:36 AM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2004-06-30 8:45:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 "Canadian Jews hope election tally
wonât undermine support for Israel"

So why did they vote for status quo (the Liberals)?

Posted by Rafael 2004-06-30 10:02:54 AM|| 2004-06-30 10:02:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 The Canadians now have sharia courts.

Only a short drive from there to islamic neighborhoods that routinely beat and rob Jews and (much more often) non conformist Muslims (as in France).

Posted by mhw 2004-06-30 10:26:10 AM|| 2004-06-30 10:26:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I hope that they're not 'tikkun olam' types like some American Jewish liberals ... repairing the world would be better done by wiping the Islamists off the face of the earth.

Posted by Anonymous5476 2004-06-30 10:37:57 AM|| 2004-06-30 10:37:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Tikkun Olam (healing the world) also includes visiting the sick, helping the poor etc.

Sadly, many people confuse the concept with the 'passive response to terror' philosophy of Michael Lerner (editor of Tikkum Olam in the US). This is Lerner's desire and thus, I think, Lerner's fault.

Posted by mhw 2004-06-30 11:41:01 AM|| 2004-06-30 11:41:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 mhw - it's not true that Canada now has Sharia courts. Ontario, one of ten provinces, has recently accepted arbitration tribunals based on Islamic religious tenets, for civil matters only. Participation is voluntary - both parties to a dispute must agree to participate in order for the tribunal to resolve a dispute. And no decision of the tribunal can violate Canadian or Ontario law. These tribunals are formed on the same principle as tribunals based on Jewish religious tenets, which have been used in Ontario for a long time. In the past, Rantburgers have replied to me on this score that the Jewish tribunals are different because "Jews don't go round beheading people" and "Jews don't treat women like property." I understand that argument, but I'm not ready to have society run on religious grounds, saying there are favours "good religions" can have and "bad religions" can't have. They do that in Saudi Arabia, not in Ontario.

FWIW, a number of Ontario women's groups, chiefly Islamic ones, have lobbied the Ontario government on this issue, and the Premier (equivalent to state governor) has said that they will investigate charges that Muslim women will be forced to participate in tribunals. So, it's not exactly "Islam run wild."

Posted by Patrick 2004-06-30 11:55:11 AM|| [www.ubilibertas.com] 2004-06-30 11:55:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 it's not exactly "Islam run wild."

true

not yet

Posted by mhw 2004-06-30 12:01:15 PM|| 2004-06-30 12:01:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Jew Tribunals, Sharia, Fundy Snake Truth
I don't care.
Got any courts?

Posted by Shipman 2004-06-30 1:42:38 PM|| 2004-06-30 1:42:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Yes, Shipman, we have ordinary courts that deal with criminal matters, just like you do in the U.S. And by the way, you also have these religion-based tribunals in the U.S. - at least, the Jewish ones, called Beth Din. Link. There are, of course, other non-religious tribunals in both the U.S. and Canada.

The basic idea is to keep civil matters out of the court system - to have ordinary people sort out their disputes with the help either of a trained arbitrator or a priest/rabbi/imam. This actually works to everyone's advantage, particularly in freeing up the courts for dealing with criminals.

Posted by Patrick Brown 2004-06-30 2:27:20 PM|| [http://www.ubilibertas.com] 2004-06-30 2:27:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Thank you Mr. Brown I will inform my sis of these breakthroughs. I am certain they can enforce most civil orders?

Posted by Shipman 2004-06-30 3:20:58 PM|| 2004-06-30 3:20:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 they can only decide ship, not enforce. The way it works is say, when you sign a contract, you agree to follow the rulings of your local bet din in any contract disputes. Same as in most contracts, except instead of invoking the American Arbitration Association,like most contracts, youre invoking a buncha rabbis. Which is preferred if you want the contract settled based on jewish law, which AAA is probably not expert in. But the secular authorities will have to enforce any remedy for breech, same as they would with the AAA.

For marriages, I presume you could go sign a prenup - Orthodox jews generally dont, IIUC. They count on opinion within the community to do so. This is a big deal, as a woman cant file for divorce in Jewish law. The rabbinic court can direct the husband to grant a divorce, but what if he ignores it? Well, he gets ostracized in the Orthodox community. Fine. What if he decides hes an atheist, and runs off to Hawaii? Well then weve got ourselves an "agunah" - "a chained woman" who can't remarry. Conservative Jews have responded by making it MUCH easier to get an annulment (if he wouldnt follow a jewish court, than he was insincere in his wedding vow, which pledges to marry in "the laws of Moses and Israel") Orthodox think this trivializes annulment. I think theyre tossing around prenups as an alternative.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-06-30 3:32:05 PM|| 2004-06-30 3:32:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I've heard about some nasty stories of what happened in agunah cases. People being beaten up by thugs (that was an early episode on the Sopranos but I've heard about it in real life too.)

Given that honor killings and genital mutilation are already occuring in Europe, even w/o formal Sharia courts, I shudder to think what will happen in Canada.

Posted by mhw 2004-06-30 4:19:41 PM|| 2004-06-30 4:19:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 mhw - the guy in the case is typically denying his wife a religious divorce as blackmail, to get money, custody, etc. Its nasty the way those things go. I could imagine somebody feeling justified in beating somebody up (not that i would consider violence outside the law justified). Men beat their wives - is that a reason to abolish marriage?

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-06-30 4:24:48 PM|| 2004-06-30 4:24:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Men beat their wives - is that a reason to abolish marriage?

The fact that people have violent or abusive instincts is not a reason to abolish marriage.

However, it is a reason to seriously worry about Sharia courts giving a moral sanction to honor killings, female genital mutilation, involuntary servitude, etc.

Frankly, in the case where a Beth Din has been involved in soliciting enforcers to beat a husband who is blackmailing a wife, I would hope the local Vad would put that Beth Din ought of business but if they didn't, it would be grounds for a civil court or legislature doing so.

Posted by mhw 2004-06-30 4:47:54 PM|| 2004-06-30 4:47:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 So why did they vote for status quo (the Liberals)?
Good question. No one seems to have the answer. On a related note, Michael Savage, a popular Jewish conservative talk show host, has repeatedly touched on this puzzling loyalty of Jewish voters to the DNC and he says he cannot understand it.

Anyways,the Canadian Muslims sure got their act together before the election and encouraged fellow Muslims to vote on how well the political parties ACTED[not just talked]in relation to important Muslim issues. Frontpage Magazine had a wonderfully informative article just before the Canadian election that laid out their strategy quite clearly, perhaps hoping that some Canadian Jewish voters might pursue the same approach. Who knows? Unfortunately it did not happen. I recommend everyone take the time to read this piece full text because it shows how certain blocs are focused and as a result can further their agenda quite nicely through their votes, while other voting blocs vote according to ideals and not reality and thusly and therefore are self-defeating/counter productive at the polls.
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13803
"Is there a Muslim Vote in Canada?" By David Ouellette/FrontPageMagazine.com/June 21, 2004
Two weeks ahead of the Canadian federal elections, Islamic lobby groups are multiplying their efforts to consolidate the âMuslim vote.â Building on the results of the latest national census published in 2003, which ranks Islam as the third largest religion (after Catholicism and Protestantism and ahead of Judaism) for the first time in Canadaâs history, Islamic groups are struggling on many fronts to make Canadaâs 600,000 Muslims aware of their potential electoral weight. Last April, almost two months prior to the declaration of general elections, the Canadian Islamic Congress (CIC) published a report named âElection 2004. Towards Informed and Committed Voting.â Based on an analysis of public statements, electoral objectives and legislative voting records of each of Canadaâs 301 elected parliamentarians, the CIC evaluates each oneâs record on 20 issues that would promote the development of closer economical ties to Muslim countries and the Arab-Israeli conflict. The average scores were based on the following marks:
A : in agreement with the CIC;
F : in complete disagreement with the CIC
B : partially in agreement with the CIC
The overwhelming majority of the outgoing Liberal (center-left) governmentâs deputies scored an average of A or B, which silently implies the CIC wishes the so-called "Muslim vote" would reelect the Liberal Party. Widely perceived as the champion of multiculturalism, Canadaâs national doctrine, immigration and a foreign policy based more on the U.N. than on Canadian national interests, the Liberal Party has traditionally garnered the vote of âNeo-Canadians."

However, 68 out of 71 deputies of the official opposition, the Conservative Party (center-right), a party known for having supported the American intervention in Iraq, a more strict immigration policy and Israelâs right to defend its citizens from Palestinian terrorism, scored a F average.At the other end of the political spectrum, deputies of the New Democratic Party (far left), a party strongly opposed to American foreign policy and overly critical of Israel, all score Aâs...Moreover, the CIC report identifies 101 electoral ridings where Canadian Muslims hold a 1.8% to 13.5% swing vote. 55 of these ridings are located in Ontario and Quebec, Canadaâs most populous provinces....

Posted by rex 2004-06-30 4:54:38 PM|| 2004-06-30 4:54:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 "Given that honor killings and genital mutilation are already occuring in Europe, even w/o formal Sharia courts, I shudder to think what will happen in Canada."

Don't shudder too much on our account, mhw. Genital mutilation has certainly occurred in the North African immigrant community in Ontario - enough that there is now a specific law against it, as there has been in the US since 1996. And genital mutilation does occurs in the United States. Here's a story about it from 1995. Another link. Here's the Female Genital Cutting Education and Networking Project in Tampa, Florida. In other words, in Canada as in the US, female genital mutilation happens. So does bank robbery. So does murder. We have laws against all these things, and the laws are enforced. Female genital mutilation has nothing to do with the arbitration tribunals and, in my view, your bringing it up in this context is regrettable.

Posted by Patrick Brown 2004-06-30 5:21:03 PM|| [http://www.ubilibertas.com] 2004-06-30 5:21:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 rex: On a related note, Michael Savage, a popular Jewish conservative talk show host, has repeatedly touched on this puzzling loyalty of Jewish voters to the DNC and he says he cannot understand it.

The unfortunate thing is that Jews dislike Christianity more than they fear Islam, frequently equating religious Christians with the Taliban, and seeking to roll back Christian institutions of all kinds. What they don't realize is that people need to believe in something, and if it's not Christianity, it's going to be Islam, given that Judaism really isn't into proselytizing.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-06-30 5:45:23 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-06-30 5:45:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 The unfortunate thing is that Jews dislike Christianity more than they fear Islam, frequently equating religious Christians with the Taliban, and seeking to roll back Christian institutions of all kinds.

Thank you for your insight Zhang Fei always a delight.

Posted by Shipman 2004-06-30 8:17:42 PM|| 2004-06-30 8:17:42 PM|| Front Page Top

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