Article

2004-05-06 Iraq-Jordan

U.S. Must Leave Falluja, Iraq General Says

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Posted by Zenster 2004-05-06 2:51:47 PM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I think Latif's comments make pretty clear that this thought of using Saddam's army to keep the peace in Iraq was just wishful thinking. Saddam's former generals don't have a problem with the US toppling Saddam - they just want themselves in power.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-05-06 2:58:48 PM|| 2004-05-06 2:58:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 OK...he's outta there. Next!

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-05-06 3:13:36 PM|| 2004-05-06 3:13:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Saddam's former generals don't have a problem with the US toppling Saddam - they just want themselves in power.

Incisive as usual, Zhang Fei. This pretty much sums up the entire insurgency and any obstacles to Iraq's reconstruction, be it Sadr or Latif. I can only hope a majority of the world sees this for the flat-out thuggery it is. Quite sadly, this concept seems to be entirely lost on much of the mainstream media.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-06 3:13:44 PM|| 2004-05-06 3:13:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 I had two hands broken by Saddam. etc

Pardon me for being a cynic, but I'd like to see some X-rays. And it doesn't matter anyway, because this guy's clearly not the one we want in charge of taking over Fallujah.

Posted by snellenr 2004-05-06 3:29:41 PM|| 2004-05-06 3:29:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Latif: I had two hands broken by Saddam.

Lots of wannabes who looked at Saddam and thought - hey, I could do that job, were arrested and tortured under Saddam. These were the people who actually threatened Saddam, the people he had good reason to dispose of, as opposed to the ordinary people who were picked up and tortured for random anti-Saddam comments. That is why this business of looking for an ex-Baathist we can live with is just ludicrous.

Some may think of this parade of ex-Baathist flops as a disaster in public relations, which indicates rank incompetence among the military's decisionmakers. I don't think so. I think the Marines are in the process of showing the American people that those who argue for putting former regime figures in positions of responsibility do not know what they are talking about. Whether we are talking about former regime figures, religious figures or exiles like Ahmad Chalabi, they are all tainted by personal or sectarian interests - there is no George Washington among them.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-05-06 3:42:43 PM|| 2004-05-06 3:42:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Prediction : sad as it may be,I fully expect Marines will be fighting the "Fallujah Brigade" the next go-around.And there will be one.Bush should have taken the heat and killed the SOBs.Now they'll be better armed and trained.If you have'nt noticed,loyalty to the paymaster is nt a strong suit with these guys.

Posted by Jason 2004-05-06 3:55:56 PM|| 2004-05-06 3:55:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 First rule for a general: Don't talk to the press. Especially don't talk to a hostile foreign press. If this fellow said these things, either he doesn't have a good grasp of English or he was very, very good during the vetting process. Everything he said is antithetical to American objectives and the facts, at least the facts as the Marines perceive them, on the ground. He's either incredibly stupid or he's already been bought off.

Posted by RWV 2004-05-06 4:04:22 PM|| 2004-05-06 4:04:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Actually, I wonder how long Fallujah will remain peaceful after it becomes apparent that Latif can't make the Marines "go away." He might find out up close and personal that there ARE foreign fighters in Fallujah and that, surprise, they don't like him much better than the Americans.

Posted by RWV 2004-05-06 4:07:10 PM|| 2004-05-06 4:07:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I've read contradictory reports on whether the siege has been lifted or not -- if it *has* been lifted, then I can't see the placement of a Baathist general in charge of Baathist Fallujah as anything other than complete surrender on the part of the US army on the Fallujah front. A siege lifted without the besieged either surrendering or being destroyed -- wouldn't that means that the besieged were victorious? By what criteria would that *not* the case?

If there's a strategy at work here (rather than complete confusion and surrender) then the only one I can imagine is that US promised the Fallujahns independence or atleast autonomy, dejure or defacto, a nice little realm to plunder at will under their own command, as long as they don't bother the rest of Iraq.

It's the only halfway-sane reason I can imagine for the US forces to do what they did. Which doesn't mean I consider it a workable solution in the long term, ofcourse.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-06 4:18:34 PM|| 2004-05-06 4:18:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Aris Katsaris: If there's a strategy at work here (rather than complete confusion and surrender) then the only one I can imagine is that US promised the Fallujahns independence or atleast autonomy, dejure or defacto, a nice little realm to plunder at will under their own command, as long as they don't bother the rest of Iraq.

I think it's a test to see if there are any local worthies that can be relied upon to take care of the problem. There are factions in both the State Department and the Pentagon who have said that the best way to pacify Iraq is to reactivate the former Iraqi armed forces. The Marines are in the process of finding out if this strategy is workable. If it is, it may spare a lot of bloodshed. If not, then the Marines will merely have postponed what they set out to do earlier.

The enemy gets weaker, not stronger, with time. It takes money, weaponry and ammunition to keep a guerrilla army in the field. Guerrillas need to put food on the table for their families. Unless they are paid by the guerrilla chiefs' stash of dwindling funds, they will revert to their normal occupations, which may involve robbery and organized crime, but definitely don't involve confronting American troops in the field.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-05-06 4:29:27 PM|| 2004-05-06 4:29:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 "I want the American soldier to return to his camp

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT.
Wrong Answer.
Insensitive Raghead hurt green machines feelings.

Posted by Shipman 2004-05-06 4:58:43 PM|| 2004-05-06 4:58:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Shipman: Insensitive Raghead hurt green machines feelings.

ROTFLMAO. Man, that was an instant classic. I hope you won't mind if I borrow that line.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-05-06 5:08:00 PM|| 2004-05-06 5:08:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 I am all open source all the time.

Posted by Shipman 2004-05-06 5:15:15 PM|| 2004-05-06 5:15:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Here is a case to apply Lincoln's approach to finding competent generals: keep trying until you find one.

Next ?

Posted by Carl in N.H 2004-05-06 6:06:42 PM|| 2004-05-06 6:06:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 From some of these stuff these ex-Saddam staffers are saying, it is clear that Saddam had a wide and deep bench of ... losers. All these guys had to do was hold their tongues for a few years, before the US left them to their own devices. But they had to open their mouths and completely destroy their own credibility. It's now becoming clear how Iraq almost managed to lose to Iran during the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980's despite having more and better equipment than the Iranians - lousy generalship.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-05-06 6:23:14 PM|| 2004-05-06 6:23:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 What do you do with the losers (i.e. Sammy's boyz) when you are trying to rebuild the country. There are thousands and thousands of them that have to be remachined, reprogrammed, or dumped. If they are dumped then they will reincarnate as thugs and criminals. We better get this one right, because we have the whole ME to reprogram.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-05-06 7:32:11 PM|| 2004-05-06 7:32:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 What do you do with the losers (i.e. Sammy's boyz) when you are trying to rebuild the country.

Try them for their crimes under Saddam's regime, and execute the ones that are convicted. The way I see it, that should clear out 80-90% of them.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-05-06 8:02:12 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-05-06 8:02:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 thousands of them that have to be remachined

AP, is there a lathe for that?

Posted by Seafarious 2004-05-06 8:17:18 PM|| 2004-05-06 8:17:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Quite sadly, this concept seems to be entirely lost on much of the mainstream media.

No, I think they grasp the concept quite clearly. They just don't care. They are on the other side.

-AR

Posted by Analog Roam 2004-05-06 9:17:57 PM|| 2004-05-06 9:17:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 One possibility: this guy is either trying to establish his street creds ("see, I told off the Americans") or he is trying to make sure he gets NO blame when the inevitable violence breaks out ("if they had only left when I told them to, none of this would have happened").

Let's see how it plays out.

Posted by rkb 2004-05-06 9:28:00 PM|| 2004-05-06 9:28:00 PM|| Front Page Top