Article

2003-10-25 Arabia

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Posted by Steve White 2003-10-25 1:22:39 AM|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The Islamists have as many symbolic dates as they have holy places.

And your point is??? The Christian tradition I grew up in also has both holy days and holy places.

If the war on terror disintegrates into a war on any sincerely held religion, it will ultimately be as pernicious and dangerous to our society as bombs going off in our streets.

It's a separate matter that some Muslims have been taught to hate in the name of their religion. And yes, I've read the Quuran and some of the other tradition, it's not one I agree with and yes, it does provide a rationale for violence and oppression. But let's continue to use high-precision weapons in the fight against Islamic terror, okay? I object to attacks that are likely to inflict substantial collateral damage to my own religious tradition.

Posted by rkb 2003-10-25 6:44:05 AM|| 2003-10-25 6:44:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Speaking of holy dates, ramadan is usually a bloody month in Algeria, as this fasting time is seen as especially favorable for jihad (this doesn't stop muslim leaders from urging pause for, let's say, US afghan aerial campaign). Note that mobs of french muslim youths partially use its ending as an excuse for random acts of vandalism (this is especially true in some Lyon areas, such as the Part-Dieu train station, which has seen its part of ransacking; one such incident was shown on tv from surveillance cam in 1998 I think).
Christian end of the year is also seen as interesting for jihadists, and european security forces are working overtime when christmas nears : IIRC 1999 plot against Strasbourg cathedral, "millennium bombings" plot, planned (chemical? a NBC suit was seized) attacks against russian interests in Paris last year, plus churches bombings in Indonesia 1999/2000?,... Respect for other religion is not always two-way.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-10-25 7:28:51 AM|| 2003-10-25 7:28:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 rkb,it seems all a Muslem has to do is walk out into an empty field and that field becomes Holy.
Seeing as every act of terror commited by a Muslem terrorist is done in the name of Islam makes this a religious war,even though we do not see it this way.

Posted by Raptor 2003-10-25 7:37:52 AM|| 2003-10-25 7:37:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I agree -- war has been declared on us in the name of Islam.

I simply took exception to the tone of Steve's comments which seemed to me to dismiss the idea of holy days or holy places of any kind. The French / German secular model is not one I want to embrace.

Posted by rkb 2003-10-25 8:36:08 AM|| 2003-10-25 8:36:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 I got $19 that sez Raptors right.

Posted by Shipman 2003-10-25 8:44:29 AM|| 2003-10-25 8:44:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I'm with Raptor and Steve - Islamic Holy Days! stock up on 'splosives and AK ammo! what a load of crap. They defile Hindu, Jewish and Christian holy sites (As a Catholic - I guess the Paleos pissing in the Church during the standoff last year allows me to kill as many muslims as I wish using the Islamic Logicâ¢?) yet whine and seethe over any real or imagined slight.
I say F*&k 'em, grow up, quit beating your women, join the modern world, get an education, and quitcher bitching and then they might get an ounce of respect. Until then they get what they deserve

Posted by Frank G 2003-10-25 8:55:19 AM|| 2003-10-25 8:55:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 It's true that Orthodox and Catholic holy days, saints' days, and feast days are frequent, but the Orthodox and Catholic fedayeen seem to have found other ways to paradise than to kill babies.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-10-25 11:26:10 AM|| 2003-10-25 11:26:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 RKB, "The French/German secular model ?
Unless it's changed--France and Germany shut down for religious holidays like Aug 15th--Ascension and a host of other Catholic Holy Days certainly not recognized in the US

Posted by Not Mike Moore 2003-10-25 11:34:51 AM|| 2003-10-25 11:34:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 I don't have a problem with the Saudis asking guests of their country to respect Ramadan. Our culture has become degraded by a collective attitude of not paying attention to holidays that are not translated into a day off from work.

I see a real tendancy for days like Veterans Day, Memorial Day and Independence Day to be celebrated by loafing. We take the kids to a parade on Memorial Day each year and spend summer vacation touring sites that are important to our countries heritage.

As a Catholic, I don't do much with feast days. Probably should. I certainly respect the Muslims that participate in Rammadan with devotion. I have as little respect for moslems that bend the observance of Ramadan into a scam as I have for slackers in the States. For those who warp a religious holiday into a jihadi event, hopefully someone will roast their stomachs in hell. Fie on their mustaches to boot.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-10-25 12:04:59 PM|| 2003-10-25 12:04:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 rkb, I'm not attacking Islam for their holy days, I'm after Islamists and Islamofascists who hide behind the skirts of their religion with their "holy place this" and "holy day that". I'm a Catholic and I manage not to kill infidels on any day, holy or not.

I suspect we're in violent agreement -- just lower that AK in yer hand, 'k?

Posted by Steve White 2003-10-25 2:26:59 PM|| 2003-10-25 2:26:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 just lower that AK in yer hand, 'k?

Hey, I don't shoot no stinkin' AK-47!! My weapon of choice is a SigSauer 229 or occasionally a Beretta 92F. 9mm semi auto handgun all the way.

Yes, I'm one of those *armed* and bellicose women.

Posted by rkb 2003-10-25 2:50:45 PM|| 2003-10-25 2:50:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Personally, I prefer something heavy, like the old M1, or an SK, using 7.62 military rounds. With a heavy weapon, once you run out of bullets, you can use it as a club until it gets too slippery to hold on to, then you throw the damned thing. Of course, my Dad said that at Bastogne, his favorite weapon was a 155MM howitzer, at zero elevation and zero deflection, fired from 75 feet away. The Germans in their Panzers didn't like it too much, but you can't have everything.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-10-25 3:20:54 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2003-10-25 3:20:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 It's Rantburg, so...

[rant]
"I don't have a problem with the Saudis asking guests of their country to respect Ramadan."
Obviously, none of you has been a "guest" in lovely Saudi Arabia during Ramadan. Do you realize you can't have a Coke, a cup of coffee, or even a fucking drink of water during daylight for a fucking month? All Day Long. Yet you are still required to work a full day while they are sleeping off last night's hedonism - and getting paid full time, though money's not the point... the absurdity and stupidity and arrogance is the point.

Challenge: Try it for one week. Just one. Then report back with the same blase air.

What does not eating or drinking or smoking or fornicating during daylight hours accomplish? Zip. For a Muslim it's supposed to cleanse something or make one holy or some kind of drivel. A special facial expression or secret handshake would have the same effect. But you aren't a Muslim - so why include YOU? Cuz they'd defect in droves, otherwise. This is simple human control crap. Period.

Sorry, but it really REALLY SUCKS. I can draw you a few scenarios where you would squeal, too. It's not hard, unless you lack imagination and forget how much LUCK is involved in your good fortune to be born free and raised to be semi-tolerant. Your good intelligence completed that last bit, not your religion. I had a few Catholic friends growing up - and they had some seriously harsh shit to say. I guess you guys have long-ago papered over the daily doses of pain and constant public humiliation -- or were fortunate enough that you weren't attending a Catholic school -- and, of course, the additional extra-special bonus good fortune that it wasn't a religious state.
[/rant]

Just a few thoughts to flesh it out and balance the scales.

Regards the actual thread topic, I prefer the Colt 45 ACP 1911. :)

Posted by .com 2003-10-25 5:19:39 PM|| 2003-10-25 5:19:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 .com, I never left the pier in Jeda - didn't want to, we were just there to gas up. Did spend several days or weeks of Ramadan in Bahrain. Bahrain wasn't too bad during Ramadan in the 1990 or so, still it was no Mardi Gras on Bourbon Street. I have heard that Jeda is more like Bahrain than Riyad with respect to total freeking bizzaro austerity. Is that correct?

Posted by Super Hose 2003-10-25 8:51:49 PM|| 2003-10-25 8:51:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Sorry, forgot - I am partial to 5 inch 54 cal, usually with an ilum round follwed by lots of HE.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-10-25 8:54:01 PM|| 2003-10-25 8:54:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Regards the actual thread topic, I prefer the Colt 45 ACP 1911. :)

A classic. My hands are a bit too small to control it well after 20 or 30 rounds, tho, so I stick to the 9mms.

Posted by rkb 2003-10-25 8:54:26 PM|| 2003-10-25 8:54:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 SH - I haven't been there, myself. You don't need "papers" (a letter with stamp, etc. from Immigration) anymore to cross province broders (you did back in early 90's), but I didn't get the chance to check it out this trip... work... sleep... work...

I wanted to see, since it has the only bona-fide resort areas with great beaches and mountains complete with apes and cool weather at altitude, but no joy. It seems to be a bit wilder than Dhahran, but that's where the Mutawas have been so active recently, too, for about the last 2-3 yrs. I guess it must be a bit looser to get their attention, but no personal knowledge.

Posted by .com 2003-10-25 10:24:41 PM|| 2003-10-25 10:24:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 .com I feel your pain--but didn't you also mention that you made a shitload of money being "victimized" by these Wahhabi constraints while stuck in that Hell-hole--and went there of your own free will? If it sucked--you were well compensated by your American corporate masters so I would think you shouldn't complain/whine as a loyal employee

Posted by NotMikeMoore 2003-10-25 10:46:32 PM|| 2003-10-25 10:46:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 NMM - You are truly a classic ptool dumbass.

I wasn't working for any American Corporate Master, shithead, I was an independent contractor - both trips.

As for making a shitload of money - you don't. The reason you can save money there is that there is damned little to spend it on and the tax break you get since you enjoy none of the goodies (freedom, infrastructure, police who actually do their jobs, well-stocked supermarkets, T&A cable TV, etc.) that anti-American fatass self-hating gutless dickwads like you take for granted.

I was making LESS in fact, but from the first trip I knew I'd be able to save money if I was willing to live in a shithole apartment and not waste it.

I stayed longer than 1 year for one reason only:
to try to make up for the 60% loss as my IRA custodians frittered away my Rollover 401K in my first year out of country.

If you knew 1 percent of what you think you know, you'd be dangerous. As it is, you're just another laughable asshole full of 2nd and 3rd hand BS.

You're a total moron.

Posted by .com 2003-10-25 11:08:38 PM|| 2003-10-25 11:08:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 So .com you were stupid enough to get paid on a 1099 while your Republican friends screwed up your IRA--fund managers are sure as hell not Democrats----so you were the dumbass tool that got screwed by your own! I love irony--and if you had a clue or loved your country you'd be here paying taxes to support your war-mongering president like the rest of us

Posted by NotMikeMoore 2003-10-25 11:57:09 PM|| 2003-10-25 11:57:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Since I was self-employed for 17 of the last 25 years, I've paid more taxes out of my pocket than you probably ever will. I paid the max on Soc Sec (and since self-employed, it was 150% to cover for no employer) for the whole 17 yrs. I'm glad to say I've helped in that regard to rid the world of the Taliban and Saddam.

You, on the other hand, would probably like to see them back, as your post implies. Fits you to a "T", too.

You truly are a total moron who hasn't had an original thought in years.

I don't know the politics of the fund managers - your knee-jerk reaction assumption that they are Pubs is rather telling. Only an idiot would make it, in fact. You really are a ptool and a pfool.

Now toddle off to NaziMedia for a reload. Or is your knee too tired? Regardless, piss off, halfwit.

Posted by .com 2003-10-26 12:06:59 AM|| 2003-10-26 12:06:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Actually I personally know fund managers and they are all GOP players--have never met a Democrat on Wall St

Posted by NotMikeMoore 2003-10-26 12:12:27 AM|| 2003-10-26 12:12:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 So that's a wrap, huh? The expert Not Mike Moore who sputters drivel finally writes a complete coherent sentence and it's based on personal knowledge? [palpitations]

I'd give you kudos, if you could follow this pattern regularly - and hadn't made me a personal enemy this fine day.

Posted by .com 2003-10-26 12:24:20 AM|| 2003-10-26 12:24:20 AM|| Front Page Top

02:52 Qaraqul
18:31 Dave
17:58 Dave
10:38 Super Hose
09:19 Fred
08:07 B
07:52 Raptor
01:42 B
01:40 Aris Katsaris
00:50 Jarhead
00:49 .com
00:40 Jarhead
00:32 Jarhead
00:24 .com
00:19 .com
00:14 Jarhead
00:12 NotMikeMoore
00:06 .com
00:06 NotMikeMoore
00:04 Jarhead
00:01 NotMikeMoore
23:59 Anonymous
23:57 .com
23:57 NotMikeMoore