Article

2003-10-23 Middle East

Cover-Up Alleged in Probe of USS Liberty

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Posted by Penguin 2003-10-23 12:38:42 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Several weeks ago, the Jerusalem Post published an article by Yiftah Spector of the IAF who was the pilot who led the attack on the Liberty. He talked extensively on how they thought it was an Egyptian ship. I can't find the article, but this talks abot it. Link

Spector is also the most senior officer that signed the protest letter against using the IAF against Palestinians. Here is a link.

I will leave the obvious Zionist international conspiracy linkages to the experts.

The big question to me is if there was a cover-up by the US Government, what was its purpose?

- Was the conclusion made because of the USS Pueblo Incident? U.S.S. Pueblo was attacked by the North Koreans on 23 January, 1968. Any condemnation of the Liberty incident would show that lessons learned were lost on Pueblo. Pretty damning to DoD, at a time when Vietnam was very hot and their plate was full.

-Was the cover-up made because of Sixth Fleetâs appalling response to the Liberty? And it was embarrassing?

"Moorer's panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war."

This seems a bit ludicrous. The Liberty attack occurred on the fourth day of the six day war. Things were fairly sewn up. Jerusalem was already taken. Arab Air Forces destroyed.

Moorer was CNO at the time and became CJS afterwards. How can he talk of conspiracy without looking in the mirror? He could have done something about it then. As an Ensign, Moorer was at Pearl Harbor. He should know of investigations and their cover-ups.

And why did Ward Boston wait so long? He did a major disservice to those sailors who were killed and wounded.

Posted by Penguin 2003-10-23 12:53:47 AM|| 2003-10-23 12:53:47 AM|| Front Page Top

... spent a year investigating the attack as part of ~~group of nuts~~ an independent panel he formed with other former military officials.

Hmmmm. Independent?

The panel also included a former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, James Akins.

Double Hmmmmm. Saudi connections?

Moorerâs panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war.

Oh those Jooooos!

Posted by Tokyo Taro 2003-10-23 1:02:57 AM|| 2003-10-23 1:02:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Why did the US cover-up the incident? Before 1968, Congress prohibited the sale of arms to Israel. About the time of the incident, a bill was working its way through Congress to allow the sale of arms to Israel. The incident was covered up to prevent public outrage at Israel. The cover-up worked, the bill passed, and the next year, sales to Israel were about $600 million. This tripled to about $1.8 billion within 3 years.

Why did Israel attack? The moment the USS Liberty came over the horizon, it was line of sight with an Israel prisoner of war camp. The IDF at the time was eliminating "POWs" and other civilians and were worried that the Liberty had visual and audio of the event.

Who helped rescue the survivors of the Liberty? Interestingly enough, despite Israeli and other US ships in the area, the first ship to give aid to the wounded soldiers was a Russian governtment vessel.

What's behind all this? As has been shown in recent corporate scandals and incidents of treason, greed trumps national loyalty every time. Remember, that our armed forces have been directed since 1898 to defend national interests, read: American business interests. Businesses (like the military industrial complex) have no problem making a few sacrifices to fatten up the bottom line. The true purpose, as expressed in the oaths of soldiers and officers, is to "support and defend the Constituion." This has been twisted by the executive branch to include proping up American businesses.

Posted by Mr. Torrent 2003-10-23 1:50:18 AM|| 2003-10-23 1:50:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Yes, lets blame Isreal for everything. I bet if we look at Moorer back-ground we'll discover he's a major Paleo supporter.

That, and this guys name sounds familiar..... Has he brought up conspiracy theories before?

Posted by Charles 2003-10-23 1:52:26 AM|| 2003-10-23 1:52:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Mr. Torrent--
The IDF at the time was eliminating "POWs" and other civilians and were worried that the Liberty had visual and audio of the event.

I read accounts that this occurred in El Arish, now in Egyptian hands. If this is true, why were the gravesites examined by the Egyptians? It is the desert, things last a long time.

Posted by Penguin 2003-10-23 2:18:32 AM|| 2003-10-23 2:18:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Correction
Mr. Torrent-- The IDF at the time was eliminating "POWs" and other civilians and were worried that the Liberty had visual and audio of the event. I read accounts that this occurred in El Arish, now in Egyptian hands. If this is true, why weren't the gravesites examined by the Egyptians? It's the desert, buried things last a long time.

Posted by Penguin 2003-10-23 2:25:24 AM|| 2003-10-23 2:25:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 it is one thing to support Israel... but at the expense of our men....Americans died for heavens sake.....we help Israel and not vice versa.....6 billion a year and all we still get is cover-ups

Posted by stevestradamus 2003-10-23 3:41:19 AM|| 2003-10-23 3:41:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 I tried telling you guys, the jews are up to no good! oh and... Bush is a jew

Posted by Mahathir M. 2003-10-23 3:53:13 AM|| 2003-10-23 3:53:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Steve- I agree, but what is the cover-up? Placing blame for the wrong reason does no one any good, especially those who died and were wounded.

Everyone yells conspiracy. Sometimes shit happens in war. Sometimes even in peace. Examples abound.

Conspiracies are hard to maintain and keep secret.

Posted by Penguin 2003-10-23 4:08:34 AM|| 2003-10-23 4:08:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 ive seen interviews with survivors who said Israel knew they were Americans...i wonder if America would have been so understanding if Iraq also had such a blunder

Posted by stevestradamus 2003-10-23 4:12:27 AM|| 2003-10-23 4:12:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 WTF is this crap doing here? Was there a sudden influx of Indymedia types?

Oh, and "stevestradamus", look up the "USS Stark". Asshat.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-10-23 7:13:53 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-10-23 7:13:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 How would the survivors know that the Israeli pilots knew?

We've seen many tragic "friendly fire" incidents over the last 2 years - some imfamous like the death of the Canadians hit by Ameircan planes during a night time live fire training exercise in Afghanistan. I'm sure there are some who believe it was ordered deliberately to punish Canada for its less than subservient stance in the WOT.

The Liberty incident is hardly any different except that Israel is involved and, as we have seen illustrated clearly this week by President Mahathir, there is no shortage of people in the world who will automatically ascribe nefarious motives to all things Jewish.Israelis are not capable of horrific blunders because they are all-powerful, all-knowing and all-controlling (manipulating).

It was all a clever plot, ya see. They had to cover for their War crimes so they deliberately attack a U.S. Navy ship, knowing they could fool and bribe the Americans into doing nothing. Risk alienating their one ally in the world? What risk! They pull the strings! Attack the American ship! Bwahahaha!

Posted by Tokyo Taro 2003-10-23 7:31:57 AM|| 2003-10-23 7:31:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Mr. Torrent, while it may indeed be possible that there was a cover-up, your spew of pre-packaged, generic, "rage-against-the-big-man makes it clear that you are just a "little-man-of-rage" with no chance of knowing what really happened. Go take off your tin-foil hat, it's frying your brain.

Tokyo Taro, The Big Jew Conspiracy(TM)is a tired ol schtick that will only backfire in the US. It will divide the left and result in a greater conservative government. Bwahahahahahah!

Posted by B 2003-10-23 7:53:08 AM|| 2003-10-23 7:53:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 We have no doubt of the motives of the Arabs when they attacked US ships. Killing far more.

Libya attacking U.S. warships in international waters off of its coast. That was deliberate no doubt about that.

Lets not forget a certain Pan Am flight and the Iranians.

Recently the USS Cole was struck by a boat piloted by two suicide bombers.

They were deliberate.

Posted by Bernardz 2003-10-23 8:01:26 AM|| 2003-10-23 8:01:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 I suspect the Federal Reserve had something to do with the coverup.

Posted by Shipman 2003-10-23 8:05:02 AM|| 2003-10-23 8:05:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Greenspan? I knew it!

Posted by Mahathir M. 2003-10-23 8:35:29 AM|| 2003-10-23 8:35:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Er B, I was being sarcastic in my remarks in italics. I thought it was clear. But then I should be more careful since there are so many barking moonbats beyond parody.

Posted by Tokyo Taro 2003-10-23 9:41:38 AM|| 2003-10-23 9:41:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 IIRC the JPost article, which I read, also chronicled the release to the press of the controller-pilots conversation prior to the attack, and there was confusion, it was mistaken for an Egyptian ship that had left Lebanon, I'll have to look it up in my "6 days of War" book by Oren as well. Sounds like this guy's got an axe to grind - note that he has no proof it was deliberate, just wants an investigation again

Stevey, you were doing so well....back on the meds

Posted by Frank G 2003-10-23 9:46:07 AM|| 2003-10-23 9:46:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 stevestradamus: it is one thing to support Israel... but at the expense of our men....Americans died for heavens sake.....we help Israel and not vice versa.....6 billion a year and all we still get is cover-ups

Let's see, we helped South Vietnam and South Korea at the cost of 100,000 lives. Were there friendly fire incidents? Probably. Each war cost us 2-3% of our annual defense budget. In current dollars, we are talking about 200-300 billion dollars annually. The interest alone on a single year's war appropriations for either Korea or Vietnam dwarfs the 6 billion dollars we provide in aid to Israel. But that's not all - in Korea, our boys are serving as a tripwire force to deter the North Koreans in case they cross the DMZ. 37,000 troops on the front lines - that's about 4 to 5 billions dollars worth of protection annually. And that's not even counting the cost of coming to the rescue if the South Koreans are attacked.

From a strategic standpoint, Israel is much more important than South Korea, or any of our NATO allies for one simple reason - proximity to oil. Israel is the one country through which American troops are guaranteed a staging area if the Mid East situation gets shot to hell. In helping Israel, we are helping ourselves. Note that our actions in helping to feed Muslims in Somalia and rescuing them in Bosnia and Kosovo have gotten no credit from the Muslim world, which sees them as part of an American war on Islam. This is why it makes sense to ally ourselves with Israel - it is a strong and dependable ally - a shining exception in a vital but hostile region that chooses enmity with America as a way of life.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-10-23 9:58:00 AM|| 2003-10-23 9:58:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 U.S.S. Liberty attacked by a 'fully cloaked' Romulan battlecruiser...
________________________borgboy

Posted by borgboy 2003-10-23 10:22:18 AM|| 2003-10-23 10:22:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 TT - sorry. I've been exposed for my hurried scanning.

It's easy to see why this issue is coming to the surface right now. And you can predict where it will go. Israel was willing to kill American soldiers in the hope that it would get their involvement in the 1967 conflict. And after they did it, America was willing to cover it up. Therefore, in moonbat logic, we can then make the ass-umption that Israel also committed 9-11, to get American involvement (don't ask me how that works exactly, I don't understand; ask a moonbat), and America would again cover it up.

The two military men should be ashamed of themselves for allowing themselves to be used in this fashion. They should take a real hard look at how they came to make the decision to go public on this right now. They should wonder if perhaps they weren't influenced by individuals whose motives were to use them to further the Islamofanatic cause. Truly sad.

Posted by B 2003-10-23 11:10:21 AM|| 2003-10-23 11:10:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 B, the problem isn't that they were influenced or tricked. The problem is they WANTED to do this. We may see it as a shameful act, but they see it as Isreal-bashing and supporting the Paleos.

Posted by Charles 2003-10-23 12:56:25 PM|| 2003-10-23 12:56:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Blue-on-blue accidents happen. Its horrible but not something you would cover up. The trouble with the incident is the crew thought for sure the pilots could see the American flag. Maybe they didn't.

Posted by Yank 2003-10-23 12:57:26 PM|| 2003-10-23 12:57:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 The trouble with the incident is the crew thought for sure the pilots could see the American flag.

Anyone can run up an American flag* - false-flagging is one of the oldest maneuvers in the book. The point here is that DoD is supposed to have confirmed to the Israelis that there were no American ships in the area.

* The Germans operated Q-ships during WWII that did precisely this.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-10-23 1:37:37 PM|| 2003-10-23 1:37:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 There's one possibility that hasn't been brought up here and discussed. I toss it out for discussion, not as what I believe or what others should accept as real - just a possibility that needs to be considered.

The Liberty was an intelligence-gathering ship. I'm sure every frequency was being scanned and recorded, both those of the Israelis and those of the Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, and whoever else was involved. There are rumors - unsubstantiated AFAIK, that some of those intercepts were making their way back to Egypt. The Russians also had an intelligence-gathering ship in the general area - perhaps the same one that made first contact with the sailors of the Liberty. It wouldn't take much of a screw-up to attack the wrong Intelligence ship. The Russians are very good at 'spoofing', and could have been sending signals to Egypt, using Liberty call-signs and frequencies. The Liberty incident could be just another in a long list of "incidents" that occurred during the Cold War - on both sides, both involving the national forces of the two major opponents, and their surrogates. We may never know for sure. Should we bring it up, discuss it, try to learn from it? Of course, not only this incident, but all incidents. We have to accept, however, that our discussion, the discussion of the "Moorer morons", this latest blab by another Navy moonbat, nor anyone else, will not make any difference to the victims of those "incidents", nor prevent other incidents from happening in the future - I.E., the Chinese and our EP-3A.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-10-23 1:41:03 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2003-10-23 1:41:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Zhang Fei, I agree and that explains the Israelis response and continual request for assurance that the Americans didn't have a ship in the area if they did see a flag. Something as small as a flag might be difficult to see from a jet fighter so there is also the chance they simply did not see it. Either way I think its an excusable tragedy.

My point is the survivors simply haven't accepted that fact. In their grief they expect either perfection, or explain away mistakes and misjudgements as a coverup.

Posted by Yank 2003-10-23 1:54:06 PM|| 2003-10-23 1:54:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 ------------------
i wonder if America would have been so understanding if Iraq also had such a blunder
------------------

Just a reminder that this actually happened in the late 80s. While the US was patrolling the Persian Gulf to protect the flow of oil from the Middle East, an Iraqi jet hit an American frigate with an Exocet missile. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the ship that was hit off the top of my head.

The Iraqis apologized, and also beheaded the pilot, iirc - although I doubt the latter influenced US policy on the issue much. This was also during the period of time in which the Iraqis were getting some support from the US during the war with Iran.

Posted by junior 2003-10-23 3:29:47 PM|| 2003-10-23 3:29:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#28
Stevey, you were doing so well....back on the meds -- Frank G.

I'm reminded of the movie, Real Genius...

Professor Hathaway: Bodie, I noticed you stopped stuttering.
Bodie: I've been giving myself shock treatments.
Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

Ed Becerra

Posted by Ed Becerra 2003-10-23 4:43:42 PM|| 2003-10-23 4:43:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Junior, the ship was the USS Stark. Robert Crawford gets credit for naming it first.

Posted by Yank 2003-10-23 5:00:18 PM|| 2003-10-23 5:00:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 are very good at 'spoofing', and could have been sending signals to Egypt, using Liberty call-signs and frequencies

OP
I think you're on to something. How close do you suspect the Soviet trawler was to the Liberty?

Posted by Shipman 2003-10-23 8:55:04 PM|| 2003-10-23 8:55:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Funny how this type of issue comes up during a time when our support of Israel is critical. And on Monday the BBC is trying to jump start a war crimes tribunal on Vietnam.

Mysterious whackings are part and parcel of being in the Navy. Here are some example whackings:
USS Saratoga whacks the Turkish flagship with two Sea Sparrows, Iraqi jet pegs USS Stark with a double exocet lunch, USS Vincennes mistakes an Iranian airbus full of folks for a hostile and gives the entire planeload of innocents an express trip to see Allah.

None of these whackings made any real military/political sense. Each of these episodes really pissed some people off also and remain emotional national issues.

Summary - somebody is pushing our buttons.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-10-23 9:57:54 PM|| 2003-10-23 9:57:54 PM|| Front Page Top

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