Article

2003-10-12 Arabia

Frenchies offer Soddies LeClerc at below cost

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Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-10-12 10:41|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 sounds like the guys who negotiated the original Libyan plane bombing compensation are still on the job?

Posted by Frank G 2003-10-12 10:58:39 AM|| 2003-10-12 10:58:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Gotta be factory seconds.

Posted by badanov 2003-10-12 11:02:11 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/weblog] 2003-10-12 11:02:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 C'mon, guys, I'm sure the French put as much care into the design and construction of these tanks as they did into their aircraft carrier!

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-10-12 11:07:51 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-10-12 11:07:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 How much would you REALLY pay for a Citroen covered with steel plate? :-)

Posted by Anonymous 2003-10-12 11:16:45 AM|| 2003-10-12 11:16:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Not sure the Wahabbis could use a tank with reverse gears only.

Posted by Ned 2003-10-12 11:17:06 AM|| 2003-10-12 11:17:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Well they always wanted German Leopard tanks but never got them. A wise decision... now.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-10-12 12:23:47 PM|| 2003-10-12 12:23:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Maybe the French should throw in some free rustproofing....or a sunroof....maybe upgrade the stereo?

Posted by Baba Yaga 2003-10-12 1:02:28 PM|| 2003-10-12 1:02:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Well, there's always Russian tanks for sale, aren't there?

Posted by Alaska Paul 2003-10-12 1:02:56 PM|| 2003-10-12 1:02:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Alaska Paul -- Yes, but I haven't heard of the Russians holding a "factory closeout -- everything must go!" sale! ;)

Posted by Baba Yaga 2003-10-12 1:10:06 PM|| 2003-10-12 1:10:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Don't they have some Russian tanks left in Iraq? Only exploded once...

Posted by True German Ally 2003-10-12 2:58:55 PM|| 2003-10-12 2:58:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Maybe the US should buy 'em, and then hand them out to somebody that has a beef with Phrawnce...

Posted by Pappy 2003-10-12 3:23:14 PM|| 2003-10-12 3:23:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Mr Ned

French tanks have very special reverse gears optimized for crushing retarded and people who vote for draft dodgers.

Posted by JFM 2003-10-12 3:24:31 PM|| 2003-10-12 3:24:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Who's gonna drive them, Mike Dukakis?

Posted by Raj 2003-10-12 3:26:34 PM|| [http://angrycyclist.blogspot.com] 2003-10-12 3:26:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 AP

It could be that some Russ tanks my be just what the doctor ordered. Better than the thin skinned Frank number and cheaper than the 3rd string job we'd sell 'em. Hell, I could base a peace plan on the IDF selling the Sods improved Merkovas....

Mind you now.... you still gotta change the damn oil...

Posted by Shipman 2003-10-12 3:33:49 PM|| 2003-10-12 3:33:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Does anybody know if the tank is any good. I actully like the corvette/frigates taht the Italians sell to South American countries. Toured a Venezualan one once. The had a bar in the wardroom.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-10-12 3:37:59 PM|| 2003-10-12 3:37:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 corvette/frigates taht the Italians sell to South American countries

I have no clue to the quality of the weapons systems or the crew... but. yes, they do built 'em pretty.

Ha! Rubino! Eat asphalt and die Finnish Nazi!
LOL

Posted by Shipman 2003-10-12 3:50:13 PM|| 2003-10-12 3:50:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Actually the Leclerc tank is a damn good weapon system, with superior mobility and sophisticated electronics. Lots of training required to be of good use. It's a fairly recent model (production began in 1991). It's a very expensive tank. 22 million dollars a tank? Hmmmmmmm, I'd say thats definitely TOO HIGH, whatever they say. Maybe the Soddies found that out.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-10-12 4:12:46 PM|| 2003-10-12 4:12:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 ....Hmmm. Doing the math, that comes to a LeClerc at about $22.6M USD, while the M1A2 comes in at $4.3M USD, according to http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-specs.htm
Somehow, the French are really coming out ahead on this deal.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2003-10-12 4:19:51 PM|| 2003-10-12 4:19:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Looks like the Soddies are expected to pay "gringo prices"!

Posted by True German Ally 2003-10-12 4:34:03 PM|| 2003-10-12 4:34:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Must be the Baccarat crystal chandelier in the turret and the Hermes leather upholstery

Posted by Not Mike Moore 2003-10-12 4:36:01 PM|| 2003-10-12 4:36:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 From my sources (but they are French :-) the Leclerc is much superior to the M1. Before someone rebukes me let me remind that the Leclerc was released more than ten years after the M1. It is not that difficult to make something better when you can use technologies who are ten years newer. Leclerc's main problem is that
it was released after the cold war and after the Gulf War when everybody specially France was downsizing its army and those who weren't were
buying M1s after having seen them in action in
the Gulf War. End result was that the Leclerc
has sold only in very small numbers (AFAIK only the French Army bought it) and this made it
prohibitively expensive (thus forcing the French
Army to further cuts in the number ordered, thus
making it still more expensive). GIAT, its government-owned manufacturer is virtually bankrupt and Chirac is ready to sell below cost
in order to avoid closure of GIAT and the political
problems involved.

Posted by JFM 2003-10-12 4:43:48 PM|| 2003-10-12 4:43:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 JFM - but superior to the M1A2? I would also note that the major difference is the forward gears in the M1 models... :-)

I know - cheap shot lol

Posted by Frank G 2003-10-12 5:13:18 PM|| 2003-10-12 5:13:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 The M1A2 has extensive field testing and a proven combat record. Each round of field testing has resulted in design improvements. We've also acquired a substantial body of knowledge on what it can and can't do and how to use it. That doesn't show up in a comparison of glossy product literature.
The LeClerc has never faced the real world, so it's hard to say much about its capabilities.

Posted by Dishman 2003-10-12 5:22:01 PM|| 2003-10-12 5:22:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Dishman hits the bullseye! The most important test of a tank is combat! The Abrams and Merkava have been upgraded continuously since their inception. And the upgrades are based on actual combat performance, not Frog Apparatchiks experimenting in a lab room!

Posted by Greg 2003-10-12 5:38:01 PM|| 2003-10-12 5:38:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 I'm surprised we lost any at all in Iraq.

Posted by Rafael 2003-10-12 5:44:10 PM|| 2003-10-12 5:44:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Selling tanks to Sa'udi on the cheap? What fools, I thought the idea with the Sa'udis was to cross Prince Sultan's palm with silver & the rest follows - as many as you can supply at whatever price you ask. As Mr Thorn Defence Systems put it: "I don't know of a royal who'll get out of bed for less than 5 per cent"

Posted by Dave 2003-10-12 5:56:04 PM|| 2003-10-12 5:56:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 If it has something that can stop the Koronet missile, it would be worth looking at. What does Isreal use. That is usaully a pretty good indicator of quality equipment.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-10-12 8:50:19 PM|| 2003-10-12 8:50:19 PM|| Front Page Top

23:26 Ed
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