Article

2003-05-13 Arabia

A Letter to Mr. Powell (Timing is Everything)

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Posted by Mark IV 2003-05-13 07:17 am|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The Israelis are willing to do that to a limited degree with Hamas and Co. We need to put any mufti-boy on notice that rants against the US calling for jihad and destruction of our country will be taken at face value and that there will be serious consequences to the speaker for that action. A couple of quiet hits will turn their collective turbans around and the others will sing a different tune. Scott is right. Shut off the preachers of this sickness and the body may recover.

Posted by Alaska Paul 5/13/2003 2:40:28 PM|| 5/13/2003 2:40:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Oops, should've gone under Arabia. This guy pi$$ed me off.

Posted by Mark IV 2003-05-13 07:29:39|| 2003-05-13 07:29:39|| Front Page Top

#3 Powell, a multi lateralist who was mugged, could do some good if he uses some stinging language in his public exit press statement. The alternative is to make goo goo eyes and emit the usual diplo drivel.

Posted by mhw 2003-05-13 07:41:51|| 2003-05-13 07:41:51|| Front Page Top

"Americans often wonder why others hate them. Did you do anything today to make us like you?
"

Mr. Al-Shibani clearly yearns for those bygone times, before 9/11, in which America- and its love-starved president- wrung its hands in anxiety over whether others liked us or not.

What Mr. Al-Shibani doesn't seem to understand yet is those days are long past, and he needs to turn his question around and ask it of himself. Do you ever wonder why we hate you, Mr. Al-Shibani? You should. What have you done today to make us like you? It might be a really, REALLY good idea to start looking at your own behavior.

"Arabs are a weak people"... "We have suffered the most by terrorism"... So far as I can tell, Arabs seem to excel most at three things: religious fanaticism, exporting violence, and self-pity. Google the phrase "1.2 billion helpless muslims" for another example.

I respect these people, their culture and their religion less with each passing day.

Posted by Dave D. 2003-05-13 07:46:34|| 2003-05-13 07:46:34|| Front Page Top

#5 I'd like to hear Powell use some of Dave D's words about fanaticism, exporting violence and self pity.

Posted by mhw 2003-05-13 09:52:38|| 2003-05-13 09:52:38|| Front Page Top

#6 Arab victimism at work, nothing to see, move along...
Slightly OT : "You know they were ousted with secret US help, dontcha?". If this is a reference to the *bloody* attempted 20 nov. 1979-5 dec. 1980 coup, when 200 "brothers" held thousands of pilgrims hostages (though only 130 were driven in the caves), the rescue assault was actually made by french GIGN gendarmes leading a group of saudi officers. The grand mosque 's plans were provided to soddies authorities by Mohammed Ben Oud Ben Laden, the mighty patriarch of the BL family, but at least one of his sons (Mahrous) was questioned due to his link to the terrorists (who sneaked into the GM hidden in Ben Laden corp. trucks, btw).

Posted by Anonymous 2003-05-13 10:36:40|| 2003-05-13 10:36:40|| Front Page Top

#7 The reference is to the occupation and subsequent bloody liberation of Mecca. Shiite terrorists were forced into the "catacombs" and eventually flushed out with CS gas, using gear and training provided by US troops who were flown in secretly (and who were never allowed to leave the airport).

"Flushed out" is not completely accurate... they were suppressed by the gas, so they could be gunned down where they hunkered.

Which is fine.

Posted by Mark IV 2003-05-13 11:29:31|| 2003-05-13 11:29:31|| Front Page Top

#8 Mark IV : I didn't know the actual Cs dispensers were Us-provided; as a sidenote, the GIGN team had to nominally "convert" to islam in order to be allowed into the GM. The gendarmes reportedly celebrated their conversion to the one true religion by having wine and sausages (pork, of course) flown from France along w/their gear.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-05-13 12:18:08|| 2003-05-13 12:18:08|| Front Page Top

#9 The roots of this problem are the preachers. I have never subscribed to GWB's 'religion of peace' thing. Because their founder, history and writings all proclaim the opposite. But I have met some peaceful muslims. So it follows that there must be imams that preach peace, just as there are those who preach violent jihad. How come we never hear about them? Are there any fatwas comdemning murder of noncombatants for political reasons? If so, those are the mullahs to back.

On the other hand, we need to look at the Attas who have gone by and trace back their ideology to the imams who motivated them, and send some hard boys of our own to give them 9mm headaches (two actually). THIS is where the war needs to fought. The rest is just looking for needles in a mountain of needles. Or making Faustian deals that come back to haunt us.

Posted by Scott 2003-05-13 13:35:29|| 2003-05-13 13:35:29|| Front Page Top

#10 I agree, Scott. But we're not vicious enough to do that yet. We're constrained by our better instincts and our reluctance to descend to the level of our adversary. Two or three more 9-11 strikes and we won't be. But none of us are going to like the side effects.

Posted by Fred 2003-05-13 14:14:46|| 2003-05-13 14:14:46|| Front Page Top

#11 The Israelis are willing to do that to a limited degree with Hamas and Co. We need to put any mufti-boy on notice that rants against the US calling for jihad and destruction of our country will be taken at face value and that there will be serious consequences to the speaker for that action. A couple of quiet hits will turn their collective turbans around and the others will sing a different tune. Scott is right. Shut off the preachers of this sickness and the body may recover.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2003-05-13 14:40:28|| 2003-05-13 14:40:28|| Front Page Top

#12 Anonymous: Re the conversion of the GIGN, I knew an American in Jeddah in the '80's , grad of Naval Academy, who had to "convert" so that he could fly helicopters patrolling the skies of Mina and Arafat during the Haj. Very straight and serious guy who would not lie about something like that.

I lived in the Jedawel compound in the late 90's and remember driving by the Vinnell compound on many occasions. We had some great parties in Jedawel and many Vinnell guys would enjoy themselves there. Jedawel is (at least was at that time) owned by one of Fahad's kids, can't remember his name, but he is/was a minister without portfolio.

My take on this is that the Saudi security apparati will come into play in light of these bombings and the supposed, according to DEBKA, assasination attempt against Prince Sultan and Naif, Mins. of Def. and Int. respectively. After this cleaning up, the young princes who have been waiting in the wings will now have the opportunity to bring Saudi into the 21st century. At least, I hope so. My condolences to all the victims.

Posted by Michael 2003-05-13 14:43:29|| 2003-05-13 14:43:29|| Front Page Top

#13 Let's make a little "suggestion" to Mr. Muhammad M. Al-Shibani:

Dear sir,
Reference your letter, May 13, 2003. I understand your concern. However, WE, the people of the United States, have NOT made war (yet) on the Arab people. We have waged war on those who support terrorism, including the Taliban, Osama bin Laden, and Saddam Hussein. We will also consider taking up arms against any other Muslim or non-Muslim group that strikes against our citizens, regardless of how they do it.

We don't care if you like us. We'd like you to think of us kindly, and to remember the many ways the very generous people of the United States aids anyone who has a need. We will NOT, however, make any concessions to any terrorist group, or to their sponsors, wherever or whoever they may be, merely to be "liked". We treat terrorists the same way we would a rattlesnake, coiled to strike - act first to prevent any damage.

If you think that we are gutless, afraid to act against you, even after Afghanistan and Iraq, consider this: the next time you strike against the United States, we will implement Plan Khomeini. Plan Khomeini calls for a simultaneous nuclear strike against every Muslim city with a population of over 50,000. Period. No grace, no excuses, no second chance. We will not live in a world inhabited by an insane pit of vipers, including human vipers.

Have a nice day.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-05-13 15:06:18|| 2003-05-13 15:06:18|| Front Page Top

#14 What bothers me is that they write stuff like this, without a thought as to how it will play on the Infidel "Street".

You know how excitable we are, and how we all think exactly the same. I think they should be more sensitive.

Posted by Mark IV 2003-05-13 17:04:05|| 2003-05-13 17:04:05|| Front Page Top

#15 I don't see it as particularly vicious, Federico. Why kill dumb sheep? They're brainwashed. The one who contracts the hitman is more culpable than the trigger.(in my book) The 1st Gulf War was bass-ackward. We killed, what, 100,000 Iraqi peasants wearing green clothes and left their masters. Shrub and Rummy got it right - decapitation. A great power is terrible, then merciful and then generous, as we have shown ourselves to be.

I do not believe preachers are off-limits (being one myself). ANY preacher who preaches hate and violence (whether Muslim, Jewish or "Christian" deserves the same 9mm surprise) What are we afraid of? That they're gonna order attacks on our soil?!! I believe there is a time for war, and it is now. Best rendering of 6th commandment is "thou shalt do no murder".
Self-defense, against those who have attacked you is precisely why Paul said that, "governing authorities... do not bear the sword for nothing". In fact, in this function of dispensing justice, they are called, "God's ministers". The magnitude and blood-lessness of GW2 was nearly biblical in proportion. (which, I believe, is it's own explanation)

What of non-violence? Jesus commanded his followers to personally turn the other cheek. That's personally. Taking the sword against agresssion in defense of family and friends has no biblical prohibition. Only a warning that you also may die by the sword. The preachers are not only fair game, righteousness fairly demands it.

Posted by Scott 2003-05-13 18:06:52|| 2003-05-13 18:06:52|| Front Page Top

#16 Mark IV: I second that comment. They are the victims. How ironic. Mr. Al-Shibani, what have you done today to make me like you? Show me, asshole.

Posted by Michael 2003-05-13 18:39:54|| 2003-05-13 18:39:54|| Front Page Top

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