Hi there, !
Today Sun 10/19/2003 Sat 10/18/2003 Fri 10/17/2003 Thu 10/16/2003 Wed 10/15/2003 Tue 10/14/2003 Mon 10/13/2003 Archives
Rantburg
406556 articles and 1441208 comments are archived on Rantburg.

Today: 42 articles and 244 comments as of 14:43.
Post a news link    Post your own article   
Area:                     Posting Order
Bali boom boy gets life
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 1: WoT Operations
2 00:00 Robert Crawford [350] 
1 00:00 Alaska Paul [261] 
1 00:00 Charles [321] 
0 [267] 
2 00:00 Super Hose [316] 
0 [265] 
8 00:00 LGJ [332] 
4 00:00 Shipman [262] 
3 00:00 Bomb-a-rama [265] 
7 00:00 Alaska Paul [265] 
0 [273] 
3 00:00 Shipman [267] 
3 00:00 Super Hose [329] 
0 [278] 
2 00:00 Fred [285] 
13 00:00 Not Mike Moore [328] 
7 00:00 Bulldog [276] 
4 00:00 Stephen [282] 
5 00:00 Shipman [271] 
17 00:00 NO MOLESTER [350] 
3 00:00 Super Hose [264] 
13 00:00 RonnieRaygun [346] 
8 00:00 RonnieRaygun [342] 
6 00:00 Angie Schultz [273] 
6 00:00 Zhang Fei [263] 
8 00:00 CrazyFool [275] 
6 00:00 RonnieRaygun [353] 
10 00:00 Robert Crawford [294] 
12 00:00 RonnieRaygun [343] 
6 00:00 tu3031 [266] 
3 00:00 SK [285] 
10 00:00 liberalhawk [265] 
4 00:00 RonnieRaygun [313] 
8 00:00 tu3031 [263] 
2 00:00 mojo [269] 
8 00:00 Charles [312] 
8 00:00 tu3031 [266] 
2 00:00 Raj [264] 
1 00:00 The Dodo [566] 
9 00:00 Igs [333] 
25 00:00 B [346] 
4 00:00 tu3031 [283] 
-Short Attention Span Theater-
Islam Enters the 21st Century
More from Scrappleface:
’Mecca Phone’ with GPS Directs Devotees, Fanatics
A new cellular phone with global positioning technology will direct Muslim devotees toward Mecca for prayer, and Muslim fanatics toward Israeli bus stops and other large gatherings of "infidels".

Targeted at the Middle Eastern Muslim market, the GHD911 comes equipped with an electronic compass to direct the faithful toward Mecca. For a small additional charge, members of Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Al Qaeda and other social service organizations can get the Martyr-ola plug-in which directs the customer to the largest concentration of infidels within a 500 mile radius.

"Many of our customers live in desert areas where it’s difficult to determine direction," said an unnamed spokesman for the manufacturer. "The GHD911 will allow them to effectively perform their two most important duties -- Salat, the five-times daily prayers, and jihad."

The phone also includes an animated tour of heaven, with realistic depictions of the dozens of virgins who await the shahid, or martyr. The GHD911 also features two "hot terminal ports" that can be wired to any device which requires a brief jolt of electricity triggered remotely.

"We’re not sure what our fanatical customers will do with that feature, but our focus groups said it was essential," the spokesman said. "With the GHD911 we think we have invented the next wireless killer app."
Posted by: Mercutio || 10/16/2003 3:12:50 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [267 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Its only funny because its true...
Posted by: SPQR 2755 || 10/16/2003 17:40 Comments || Top||

#2  Laugh, but the first customer was NSA. They've reverse-engineered the product to tell them where the user is at all times. The new automated switching center for JDAM coordinates will make life easier for all Americans.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/16/2003 18:12 Comments || Top||

#3  You laugh, but think of the concept of a homing rug with a built in forehead counter with optional DNA sweat foreburgery.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 18:18 Comments || Top||


Knock, knock - Guess Who...
On top of the Secret Service Hit Parade: Is it really possible to be this stupid and still keep breathing unassisted?
"Get your KillPresidentBush.com e-mail address! Now you can impress all your friends with your very own Your_User_Name_Here@KillPresidentBush.com e-mail address. Only $20.00 a year! We will start operating in November so send in your money fast kids! Checks and Money Orders at this time only. Include user name you would like and send to: KillPresidentBush.com, c/o Kevin Lindquist, P.O. Box 915321, Longwood, FL 32791-5321."
Have fun with your new best friends, you clueless idiot.
Posted by: mojo || 10/16/2003 12:10:05 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [328 views] Top|| File under:

#1  " Lets tell everyone we're going to kill the President! "

Another alias for Sen. Bill Graham.
Posted by: Charles || 10/16/2003 12:19 Comments || Top||

#2  Whoever this guy is...he will become the poster child for the LLL's envisioned Ashcroft Dissent Crushing Brigades (tm). I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what was intended...(sigh)
Posted by: mjh || 10/16/2003 12:33 Comments || Top||

#3  Soon to be renamed PleaseStopRapingMeAnallyInFederalPrison.com...
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 12:51 Comments || Top||

#4  Kevin Lindquist, now stepping into the batter's box for the Darwin Awards Tournament....
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/16/2003 13:22 Comments || Top||

#5  You dont think this could be a honeypot do you?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/16/2003 13:33 Comments || Top||

#6  Isn't this Fifth Column?
Posted by: Atrus || 10/16/2003 14:33 Comments || Top||

#7  Hope this idiot has tea and cookies for the FBI when they coma knockin.
Posted by: Raptor || 10/16/2003 15:45 Comments || Top||

#8  Certainly a website address like that would not be allowed to be hosted?! OMG the Repooplicans are now going to elevate the discourse with "KillAlFranken.com; KillHowardDean.com" OY
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 10/16/2003 17:46 Comments || Top||

#9  Charles

Are you talkin 'bout Bob of a 1000 jobs? Don't be jumpin ugly with Senator Jello.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 18:21 Comments || Top||

#10  Don't think we'll be seeing GOP websites like that NMM. The left's got the lock on looney these days.
Posted by: R. McLeod || 10/16/2003 21:23 Comments || Top||

#11  My favorite part:

Only $20.00 a year!

If that dumbass knew what hell awaits him he'd be charging a lot more.
Posted by: g wiz || 10/16/2003 22:20 Comments || Top||

#12  I still think it's Bob Grahams( thanks for the correction Shipman ) attempt to raise money for his 're-entry' into the election race.

Afterall, what better way to raise money than to say you'll use it to kill Bush? It's the Left-wing slogan garuanteed to raise money!
Posted by: Charles || 10/16/2003 22:35 Comments || Top||

#13  It's disrespectful to OUR President and I don't think it should be allowed--ever!--So you Rantbourgeois can can continue to paint with a broad brush--but don't include me! Just a damn shame you didn't show the same respect to Bill Clinton
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 10/16/2003 22:37 Comments || Top||


Global Spread of Bear Attacks Continue
A POLAR bear has killed the last villager on Russia’s Vrangel island off the northern Chukotka peninsula, scientists at a local reserve said. The reserve’s workers attempted to save Vasilina Alpaun, who was attacked on her own doorstep, but were too late. The Ushakovskoye village had been abandoned since 1997, when its inhabitants were moved to the peninsula to make way for the bear reserve, but Alpaun, 25, returned to her old home shortly afterwards.
Missed the old homestead.
Bears roam free on the island and are rarely aggressive, the reserve’s director Leonid Bove said, adding that the woman most likely provoked the animal.
Er, no, polar bears are maybe the most aggressive predators on the planet. Food is so scarce in the polar regions they will attack and eat almost anything. At the far northern radar stations, they have to maintain polar bear watches and keep personnel inside when they are around.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 10:11:06 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [346 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Next on Fox: When Polar Bears Order Takeout.
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 10:19 Comments || Top||

#2  Same deal when a sub cracks the ice. They always keep an armed bear watch on the sail.

Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 10:21 Comments || Top||

#3  Shades of Gary Larson..... Pray the bears in Yellowstone never discover car antennas....
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 10:22 Comments || Top||

#4  Alaskan Grizzlies are such cute and cuddly creatures

http://www.blackbearheaven.com/world-record-grizzly-bear.htm
Posted by: mojo || 10/16/2003 11:32 Comments || Top||

#5  In bear country, I would recommend a hemrmetically sealed trash cans and a dump at least 50 miles away. I don't no bears - other than I don't want to attract them. Bears scare me unless Kordell Stewart is under center.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 12:21 Comments || Top||

#6  I have heard stories of bears that learned if they leaned on a VW Bug the windows would pop out and give them access to whatever was within. Airtight only works when the bears don't learn the airtight often hides tasty munchies.
Posted by: Yank || 10/16/2003 12:37 Comments || Top||

#7  We should be asking ourselves, "What have we done to cause this? Why do they eat us?"
Posted by: Mike || 10/16/2003 12:39 Comments || Top||

#8  Cause we're "good eatin'". We're also probably bear infidels. But mostly... we're "good eatin'".
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 13:03 Comments || Top||

#9  Lesse, most animals in the wild have good defenses against bears. Ruminants and other vegetation eaters run fast. Mountain lions and wolverines are nasty creatures with claws, and usually don't taste good. Birds fly away. Fishing is easy, but only during spawning. Berries take forever to ripen, and most trees where bears are have nasty-tasting sap.

Most humanoids can't outrun a slow lava flow. Our teeth and nails are pathetic. Most people are over-fed, with large quantities of juicy fat. Recent evidence suggests that a large portion of our population is also stupid.

Under these conditions, Darwinism will NOT work in our favor.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/16/2003 13:28 Comments || Top||

#10  Wrangell Island has over 500 polar bear dens.

POLAR BEAR STOMP

I hates the man who says all bears s--t in the woods
Cause I don't Cause I'm a Polar Bear, rrrrrah.

I don't set my rump down on no stump
I eat seals. I find seals very succulant
I like to suck em on down, s--t em on out
Like to watch em glide
Like to watch em slide

Hey, if I greet ya I just might eat ya...
[etc etc]

-from Alaska Hit Singles album 1982 (also has the Yukon Women song)
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/16/2003 13:28 Comments || Top||

#11  Old Pat! I hear ya!

I think they need better housing. Housing able to stand the flow of low slava, able to berry ribble, and trees with many saps, slow chickens and dumb ass yankees. Remembuh your local peanut famah is yo best friend. Send Money.

Jimmuh
Posted by: Jimmuh || 10/16/2003 18:28 Comments || Top||

#12  And unlike any of the fat cat revolving door bureaucrats like Cheney and the other cohorts from the State Dept who have taken up the cudgel for the Saudis--I'll actually go HELP/WORK to put AMERICANS in affordable housing thru Habitat--that Jimmuh is a BAD MAN!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 10/16/2003 22:42 Comments || Top||

#13  Well uhh umm duh It was them welfare queens drivin' them Cadillacs that caused this
Posted by: RonnieRaygun || 10/16/2003 22:47 Comments || Top||


Most women have dog breath
A little levity this early in the morning. Bulldog (and you might want to change that after this...)?
More than half of Britons could have breath that smells worse that their pet’s, according to a survey.
EEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW!
And women are the worst offenders, with three out of five failing a sulphur emissions test, according to research by toothpaste manufacturer Aquafresh.
Are they required to get inspection stickers over there now? Kiss me, baby...
"Some mouths may be dirtier than cat litter," dentist Brian Grieveson said in a statement that accompanied the research released on Thursday.
That could possibly be the most disgusting thing I’ve ever read.
"Most people in the UK do not realise that cleaning your tongue is as important as cleaning your teeth," he added.
And we’ve all seen British dental work.
Scots had the best oral hygiene, with only 10 percent suffering bad breath, compared to 27 percent in London. Throughout the nation, 52 percent were rated at a level that could be worse than that of a pet animal. "We are one of the last countries to understand the need to clean our tongue, with people in America and parts of Europe practising tongue cleaning routinely," said Grieveson.
If I had breath like a litter box, I’d clean my tounge with a belt sander.
Secretaries were the freshest profession, achieving 100 percent freshness in the survey of 1,000 people, while retail staff fared worst and received the warning: "You could be losing sales".
...unless you work at a pet shop.
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 9:16:48 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [343 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Dammit, another keyboard ruined!
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 9:35 Comments || Top||

#2  watch that coffee breath Steve-o! Altoids all around!
Posted by: Frank G || 10/16/2003 9:44 Comments || Top||

#3  And women are the worst offenders, with three out of five failing a sulphur emissions test, according to research by toothpaste manufacturer Aquafresh.

I detect a possible conflict of interest here...
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 10/16/2003 9:58 Comments || Top||

#4  Patrick--Don't worry about their conflict of interest. A recent study by Phillip Morris says cigarette smoking will cure bad breath!
Posted by: Dar || 10/16/2003 10:32 Comments || Top||

#5  WTF? I mean, WTF?!!!!! Don't you guys know never to trust Aquafresh?

Bulldog (a regular user of Sweet Slaverin' non-foaming hound-jowl paste)
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/16/2003 10:48 Comments || Top||

#6  so four out of five dentists would rather french kiss a dog?
Posted by: flash91 || 10/16/2003 11:22 Comments || Top||

#7  Just adds another reason to the list "Why I won't ever date Elizabeth Hurley"...
Posted by: Anonymous Coward || 10/16/2003 11:32 Comments || Top||

#8  I am so thankful I can't smell anything less than a large gathering of pungent skunks!
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/16/2003 13:30 Comments || Top||

#9  Just adds another reason to the list "Why I won't ever date Elizabeth Hurley"...

-maybe this is the answer to the burning question of why Hugh Grant cheated on her with a common street walker.....
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/16/2003 14:53 Comments || Top||

#10  Re: the title and dogbreath...

"Don't you think you should pet him first?"
Posted by: eLarson || 10/16/2003 17:40 Comments || Top||

#11  Good Heavens.. a dreaded Attack of the Obvious/
Posted by: Jimmuh || 10/16/2003 18:30 Comments || Top||

#12  Well, umm uhh duh--smells just like Nancy's breath
Posted by: RonnieRaygun || 10/16/2003 22:45 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan
Taliban Campaigns for Muslim Support - by shooting more people
EFL AP from Newsday
The Taliban have launched an unprecedented campaign to win money and support from Muslim militants outside Afghanistan amid a resurgence by the group marked by roadside killings, ambushes and public statements boasting of their successes. After remaining relatively quiet for months, a bevy of Taliban spokesmen have been turning up on Arab TV and the Pakistani media, and a handful have started making direct phone calls to the international press, including The Associated Press.
I hope this campaign isn’t sucessful. Wes Clark is just freaky enough to try it over here.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 6:18:02 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [265 views] Top|| File under:


Arabia
Yemen says militants planned attack on embassies
A group of Islamic militants arrested over the last month in Yemen has confessed to planning attacks on U.S. and British embassies and had ties to al Qaeda, a senior Yemeni official said on Thursday.
"Ouch, put that down! I confess!"
Police seized ammunition and bomb-making manuals from the group of about 20 suspects who were from Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Syria, the official said, adding: "It was like a laboratory." "They are believed to be an al Qaeda cell but they are regrouped under a new name — the Unitarian Brigade," he told Reuters.
Those damm Unitarian’s! I never trusted them.
"It seems their orders were coming from Afghanistan."
Call forwarding, perhaps?
Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden is believed to be dead hiding in Afghanistan or in Pakistan. The Yemeni official said those arrested had confessed to plotting to attack the U.S. and British embassies and Western envoys. He said the group received funds from a businessman in Saudi Arabia and that a Yemeni student had been arrested for carrying money from Saudi Arabia for the militants.
Tap, tap, nope.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 9:30:34 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [353 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "When Unitarians go bad."

Gary Larson, call your office...
Posted by: Fred || 10/16/2003 11:23 Comments || Top||

#2  I hope the FBI is on this Unitarian thing - they have their missionaries all over the place. Time for a clamp down. Put them all on teh red list for air flights.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 12:44 Comments || Top||

#3  They want to impress me? How many "holy places" they got??
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 13:05 Comments || Top||

#4  Is there anyone in Yemen that or Saudi Arabia that plans stuff like - vacations, what we're going to eat this week or makes retirement plans?
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 18:00 Comments || Top||

#5  Superhose wrote: "I hope the FBI is on this Unitarian thing - they have their missionaries all over the place."

Garrison Keillor actually had a pretty good gag about Unitarian missionaries bringing Christianity to Native Americans through interpretive dance.
Posted by: JDB || 10/16/2003 20:51 Comments || Top||

#6  I'm so tired of all these militant Islamic groups--I think we should just adopt .com,Steve White and Fred's all encompassing "Asshat Brigades" to refer to all of them
Posted by: RonnieRaygun || 10/16/2003 22:57 Comments || Top||


Europe
Is Martha Stewart on the EU Speed Dial?
EFL from BBC
Will that foundation for transparency in government that provides corruption ratings begin to rank the EU soon?
The Belgian authorities have arrested two people - one of them an employee of the European Commission - in connection with alleged fraud in international grain dealing. The arrests follow an investigation into reports that large grain companies were warned of weekly changes in price subsidies before they were publicly announced. Reuters quoted the commission’s chief spokesman, Reijo Kemppinen, as saying that the commission official was suspected of taking bribes. Correspondents say the affair will come as an embarrassment to the commission, which has already been hit by a scandal at its statistical arm Eurostat in recent weeks.
I include some comments that Ed Beccera made concerning Radical Islam overrunning Africa. They explain how proponents of strict Sharia law can be rationalized with bribery - in the courts of Kenya for instance. Ed’s comments cleared up some issues for me.
You can get a loan from someone, and they’re forbidden to charge you interest. (ie, you borrow $100, you pay back only $100)

But late charges are NOT forbidden. So when a loan is made, there’s an unspoken understanding between lender and borrower that the borrower will come in "late" to make a payment. (Late meaning something along the lines of "ohmyallah, it’s 2pm, I was supposed to be there at 1:59...")

Then, the borrower is charged a "late fee" for not having made the payment on time. And if the late fee just happens to be the same amount that any interest might have been, hey, that’s just one of those marvelous coincidences that Allah permits to happen in this wonderful world.

The entire process is winked at by the majority of Islam, with only the real psychos screaming about it.

Same goes for bribes. Bribes are forbidden, charitable donations are not. "I was just a little too busy to make it to a place where I could donate this money, your Honor.. will you please take it for me, and see that it’s put to a charitable use?"

And it’s just another one of those marvelous coincidences that the "most charitable use" that the judge could find was at his own home.

Funny how that works out, eh?

Ed Becerra
Thank you Ed
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 6:53:22 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [267 views] Top|| File under:


India-Pakistan
Nepal: Chaos reigns in ’Shangri-La’
EFL National Post via Worldwire
Yesterday, an unidentified man was killed walking on the outskirts of the capital, Katmandu, and a bomb was hurled into a bus filled with government troops in eastern Nepal. Over the weekend, 67 people were killed in day-long gun battles between guerrilla forces and government troops in western Nepal. In another incident on Monday, 11 Maoist rebels and four high school students died when government soldiers stormed a village school in northeastern Nepal, where the Maoists were holding a recruitment drive. The pace of the killing has escalated since Aug. 27, when the Maoists, who model themselves on Peru’s Shinning Path and Cambodia’s Khmer Rouge, decided to resume their civil war after the royalist government refused to establish a special assembly to redraft the constitution.
The Shining Path - sponsored by Mr Clean - is bad enough, but why would you hope to elicit popular support by patterning your organization after a group that exterminated a large portion of it’s own population.
Unless you intend to exterminate a large portion of your own population, of course...
The Maoists have been fighting the government since 1996. They are demanding radical constitutional change and the creation of a communist state, while promising impoverished peasants land reform, universal health care and expanded education opportunities.
Just like happened in Cambodia?
In an era when communists of any stripe are an endangered breed, the Nepali Maoists have been steadily gaining ground. They now control much of rural Nepal and run their own mini-state in the country’s far west.
Wonder what the conditions are like in their mini-state. Must be like California.
They are helped by years of corruption, misgovernment and indifference, combined with a grinding poverty that has more than 42% of all Nepalese living below the poverty line. With a military wing that claims between 10,000 and 15,000 guerrillas, the Maoists have aggressively attacked Nepal’s military, which, until recently, was both ill-equipped and performed a mainly ceremonial function. Both sides used the seven-month ceasefire to regroup and rearm.
Call a cease fire, we are low on ammo and the brass is causing a trip hazard. We could get somebody hurt.
Britain and the United States are supplying and training Nepal’s armed forces and the Maoists are filling their coffers through an extortion campaign that targets local businessmen, aid agencies and villagers. While nearly 8,000 people have died in the civil war in the past seven years, more than 5,100 of those deaths occurred in the past 18 months. Nepal’s notoriously complicated politics were thrown into chaos two years ago when Crown Prince Dipendra shot and killed most of his family, including his father, King Birendra, in a palace massacre before committing suicide. Fed up with the constant political bickering that produced 12 governments in 12 years and determined to have his own way, King Gyanendra dissolved Parliament in October, dismissed the elected prime minister and appointed his own government. Months of constitutional turmoil have followed, with the five major political parties joining the Maoists in agitating against the King, boycotting Parliament and demanding a return to democracy.
Democracy - I thought they wanted a communist state.
They all holler for democracy until they're in power. Then they start printing those 20-foot posters with Fearless Leader's face on them...
In May, street demonstrations and protests in Kathmandu finally forced the King to appoint a new prime minister. In the meantime, Nepal’s economy is collapsing. Tourism, the country’s mainstay, is down 70% this year.
That’s just bad marketting. They should advertise that they are the most dangerous place on earth. I thought Gaza was.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 12:01:12 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [276 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ...Somebody refresh my memory - wasn't the Queen of Nepal (at least till recently) an American?

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 10/16/2003 13:55 Comments || Top||

#2  I know the Princess Noor of Jordan is an Americanski.

I forgot to highlight my favorite tidbit. In Nepal if the Moaists have a recruiting fair the army violently surpesses the activity. At Harvard if the Atrmy has a recruiting fair the Moaists violently break it up. Yin and Yan - there is a subtle balance in the world.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 14:41 Comments || Top||

#3  I was in Nepal eighteen months ago, in Kathmandu for a few days, and trekking for a week in the Himalayas around Annapurna. Things were hotting up then, and we came across some evidence of Maoist activity in the sticks (a gutted communications building a few hundred feet from a tourists' observation tower). Soldiers patrolled all over the place, on foot and on flatbeds. Nevertheless, statistically, the risk to tourists from violence is very low (there have been Maoist robbings, some robbings perpetrated by criminals posing as Maoists, and attempts to force westerners to act as weapons mules, but no killings, AFAIK), but the whole insurgency thing understandably puts many people off planning to go. As it turned out for us, avalanches were by far the most real threat, and the Maoists were merely a nuisance (I nearly missed my flight home when they called one of their national "strikes", a shutdowner which was called off at the last minute following widespread protests that it would prevent the country's students travelling to take their exams.
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/16/2003 14:54 Comments || Top||

#4  Mike, Queen Komal was born in Katmandu. She seems to have survived the regicide.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 18:11 Comments || Top||

#5  Heavens! I went to Atlanta once.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 18:33 Comments || Top||

#6  I think you're thinking of Hope Whatsername, who was a socialite who became queen of Sikkim. Sikkim's the low-rent district of Bhutan. I think the Chinese ate it a few months ago.
Posted by: Fred || 10/16/2003 20:26 Comments || Top||

#7  I don't think the Nepalese monarchy has interbred much beyond the four or five families which have jostled for power for centuries. It's a truly remarkable country, and well worth a visit by anyone, once things calm down and assuming the Maoists don't succeed in their efforts to wreck the place. Kathmandu itself has changed very little during the last millennium. Wander slightly off the beaten track and you can imagine you've been carried far back in time. It's a charming small city with an extraordinarily rich character. The people are tough, friendly and entertaining, Buddhists and Hindus. And as for the scenery...
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/16/2003 20:37 Comments || Top||


Algerian envoy’s son found dead
Shepherd Jelly Ameen, son of Algerian ambassador to Islamabad, was found dead in a local hotel on Wednesday, police said.
Jelly??
Mr Ameen arrived at Comfort Inn on Tuesday. When he did not wake up till 10am on Wednesday, the hotel management called the police, according to the hotel staff.
Guess they are pretty strict about checkout time.
The police came and the room door was opened. The body of Mr Ameen was found lying on the floor with two bottles of petrol besides him. His father, Essa Shepherd, the ambassador, was informed in Islamabad. Mr Shepherd reached the hospital at 3pm and identified the body. The body was then shifted to a local hospital for autopsy. Later, the police handed it over to Mr Shepherd. The police sealed the hotel room. Sources said Mr Ameen was missing from his Islamabad residence since early Tuesday and an FIR to this effect was lodged with the Margallah police. APP adds: Police and hotel sources said Mr Ameen had committed suicide by taking petrol.
Yeah - sure - right - OK - whatever you say officer - nothing to see here - move along.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 9:14:03 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [266 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Shepherd Jelly Ameen? Can you blame him for drinking gasoline?
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 9:29 Comments || Top||

#2  tu3031 LOL. Now there's starting material for a Country and Western toon, if ever I heard it.
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/16/2003 10:24 Comments || Top||

#3  Hipaskistan.com.... had me going it's Hi Pakistan... at first I thought it was where the old Beats went to die.

Hipakistan.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 10:29 Comments || Top||

#4  I wonder where gasoline breath ranks on that Aquafresh study?
Posted by: Dar || 10/16/2003 10:38 Comments || Top||

#5  We'll see more of this if the Sox lose tonight.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 13:00 Comments || Top||

#6  Yeah. I'll be one of them.
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 13:08 Comments || Top||


Pakistan says India running terrorist camps in Afghanistan
Pakistan’s Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat said Thursday India is running six terrorist training camps inside Afghanistan for subversive activities and attacks on its territory, according to a foreign media report. He said that the camps had been set up by Indian consulates functioning in the Afghan cities of Herat in the west, Kandahar in the south and Jalalabad in the east. He said that there are six terrorist camps where Indian intelligence agency RAW trains Pakistani dissidents and like-minded Afghans to stir ethnic and sectarian unrest and carry out attacks in Pakistan.
More Pak ravings or a really good idea? We report, you decide.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 8:59:04 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [285 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I think RAW is sitting back and doing not much of anything, other than laughing their heinies off. The Paks, especially the Pashtuns, do quite a good enough job of indulging in ethnic and sectarian unrest without any outside help.
Posted by: Fred || 10/16/2003 11:41 Comments || Top||

#2  Heret? Those would be Iranian camps. Iranian, Indian its all the same bloody non Sunni I's.
Posted by: Yank || 10/16/2003 16:30 Comments || Top||

#3  I guess, this is for the consumption of stupid Pak and like minded mobs. These folks practice the doctrine of do not think more than my wife. Well, she also blames me for all of her stupidity.
Posted by: SK || 10/16/2003 19:22 Comments || Top||


A circle of hate
Investigation into the assassination of former State Home Minister Haren Pandya reveals that terrorism has found fertile ground in post-pogrom Gujarat. Pandya’s assassination, the joint investigation conducted by the Gujarat Police and the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) has found, could prove to be just the first of a wave of Islamist terror strikes intended to avenge the pogrom of February-March 2002. Drawing on a wide network of right-wing religious organisations that have flourished among Gujarat’s ghettoised and riot-battered Muslims, the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Jaish-e-Mohammad have begun recruiting and training dozens of young people to execute acts of retaliatory terrorism.

Maulana Sufiyan Patangia used to run the Waliullah seminary next to the Lal Masjid - officially called the Hafizi Masjid - in Kalupur in the old city area of Ahmedabad. Now, he is Gujarat’s most wanted criminal. Believed to be the head of the massive terrorist cell unearthed during the course of the investigation into Pandya’s assassination, Indian intelligence operatives last sighted the cleric in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in early September.
Whoa! Big surprise here!... Oh. It's not. Never mind.
For years, Patangia was just another small-time preacher for the Tablighi Jamaat, perhaps the largest Islamic movement in the world. Students and the faithful who attended prayers at the Lal Masjid were exhorted to give up frivolities such as television or cinema, and received advice on everything from the clothes they ought to wear, the manner of their beards, and the correct methods of ablution and urination. Patangia’s seminary thrived, funded generously by Saudi Arabia-based charities the cleric contacted on his biennial Haj and Umrah pilgrimages to Mecca.

Al Qaeda’s bombing of the twin towers in New York on September 11 brought about seismic changes in the Lal Masjid and its seminary. Patangia declared that Islam was in danger and that it was obligatory on all Muslims to resist the U.S.’ war on the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Drawing on a core group from among his earthquake-relief volunteers, Patangia formed an Islamist study cell called the Idara-e-Fadlullah-ul-Muslimeen (Institution of Charity for Muslims). The group monitored the events in Afghanistan, relying mainly on the Internet since its members were forbidden to use the supposedly anti-Islamic medium of television.
One of the Bali bombers also closely monitored war in Afghanistan on the internet, and he claimed at his trial that over 200 000 civilians had been killed by American bombs there.
In February 2002, when violence broke out in Gujarat, Patangia was in Saudi Arabia on his regular pilgrimage. He used the opportunity, the CBI and the Gujarat Police say, to seek support from the Pakistan-based Islamist Right. The road led directly to the Jaish-e-Mohammad’s Karachi-based commander Abdullah Shah Mazhar. Having broken with the mainstream Jaish-e-Mohammad leadership of Masood Azhar, Mazhar was keen to establish his credentials. He, however, wanted evidence that Patangia was serious - and evidence was duly provided on May 29, 2002, when five low-intensity bombs went off on public transport buses in Ahmedabad, injuring 26 people. Patangia now made available eight personnel to undergo training in Pakistan. The group underwent a basic weapons and tactics course, and then received specialised explosives training before returning in March. Their orders were simple: to do nothing until orders came in from Pakistan. Patangia, say investigators, chose to jump the gun. Vanjara said: "His problem was that he had already taken money for the hit on Pandya. The financiers in Saudi Arabia were leaning very hard on him for results. Moreover, the organisation had to show people that it could actually do something other than talk."
The unsuccesfull ’hit’ lead to the dismantling of his cell..
Investigators in Pakistan discovered that a powerful dissident element within the Tablighi Jamaat had begun to reject organisational orthodoxy, and privilege jehad by the sword, over jehad for the conscience. Could something similar be under way in Gujarat? No one knows for certain, but investigation of the Sufiyan cell certainly points in that direction. In a recent book, The Origins and Development of the Tablighi Jamaat, the scholar Yoginder Sikand points out that the organisation has always been remarkably flexible, responding to changed times and circumstances. Although the sect is very secretive, and produces no worthwhile official literature on political events or ideology, it could well see the political rise of the Hindu religious right as the next great test to its project. If so, dozens of young people in Gujarat, scarred by the violence of 2002, seem ready to join the cause. Intelligence officials estimate that about four-dozen recruits may have separately made their way to Pakistan for training. Each riot feeds and informs the next bomb blast, which in turn legitimises and inspires the next riot. There is no end in sight, sadly, to this circle of hate.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 10/16/2003 12:34:53 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [283 views] Top|| File under:

#1  its members were forbidden to use the supposedly anti-Islamic medium of television
Why is television anti-Islamic and the internet not?

Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/16/2003 8:27 Comments || Top||

#2  its members were forbidden to use the supposedly anti-Islamic medium of television

Why is television anti-Islamic and the internet not?


Shhhhh... quit asking questions, and let's get Al Jazeera turned off!
Posted by: snellenr || 10/16/2003 10:11 Comments || Top||

#3  Students and the faithful who attended prayers at the Lal Masjid received advice on everything from the clothes they ought to wear, the manner of their beards, and the correct methods of ablution and urination. (edited for brevity.)

-hmm....being lectured on how to piss. Yep, that doesn't sound the least bit whacko.

Posted by: Jarhead || 10/16/2003 15:24 Comments || Top||

#4  Coming up next: The Trapezoid of Hate...
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 16:24 Comments || Top||


Iraq
Jordanian taxi's last fare
US troops shot dead a Jordanian taxi driver and three of his passengers in Baghdad. Occupation forces opened fire at the car after it failed to stop at a checkpoint, according to the Amman taxi firm. Employers at the taxi firm said the driver “probably did not see the American checkpoint in the dark” and did not stop.
Either that, or else...
US military officials denied the report, saying the cars' occupants were killed when their vehicle crashed into a tank at a checkpoint.
Doesn't sound like they're big on headlights. Macho men don't use 'em, y'know...
And in Tikrit, a four-year-old Iraqi girl was killed and her sister wounded when a roadside bomb was detonated as they walked to school. A US army medic said Jihan Omran died after she was taken to hospital.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 10/16/2003 21:59 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [350 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And in Tikrit, a four-year-old Iraqi girl was killed and her sister wounded when a roadside bomb was detonated as they walked to school. A US army medic said Jihan Omran died after she was taken to hospital.

Anything in the Mainstream media.... didn't think so.

I think I will send this to my local news station. They might even report it since a child was killed (that is what is required to get reported ya know...).
Posted by: GregJ || 10/16/2003 22:29 Comments || Top||

#2  Ah, those brave, brave, jihadis. Not even the balls to confront the school girls in person; they have to use command-detonated bombs.

Bastards. When they reach Hell, I hope their "virgins" are iron maidens.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/16/2003 22:44 Comments || Top||


Iran-Contra Figure Emerges in WMD Probe - Swear he did not kill JFK
Newsday EFL
Acting through a prominent conservative with friends at the Pentagon, a central figure in the Iran-Contra scandal has passed allegations to the Bush administration that enriched uranium was smuggled from Iraq into Iran five years ago and some may remain hidden in Iraq. The intermediary, Michael Ledeen, said the CIA failed to aggressively check out the allegations because of its long-held distrust of Manucher Ghorbanifar, the middleman in the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages deals of the Reagan years. The CIA agrees it is skeptical of information from Ghorbanifar, saying he has "proven to be a fabricator."

In an acrimonious meeting two weeks ago in a sport utility vehicle with dark-tinted windows being driven through Baghdad streets, the CIA told the source of Ghorbanifar’s information that it did not believe the allegations and suspected the people the source was working with only wanted money. The agency demanded a sample of the uranium, Ghorbanifar’s source said in an interview arranged by Ledeen. The source of Ghorbanifar’s information, said he told the CIA it could meet with three people involved in the purported shipment. Those people, including a man formerly in the Iraqi military, could take the Americans to a laboratory in Iraq where unspecified "material" is stored, the source said. If the evidence proved valuable, a reward ranging from thousands to millions of dollars would be paid, he said.

The delivery of the allegations to the CIA illustrates the influence some prominent outside conservatives continue to have inside the Pentagon — and the difficulty the CIA faces in sorting through allegations emanating from the Middle East. The source of Ghorbanifar’s allegations began supplying the Pentagon with information about Iran nearly two years ago in meetings arranged by Ledeen, who has a number of friends in the Pentagon’s civilian leadership. The Iraqi was brought to Ledeen’s attention by Ghorbanifar, an Iranian exile. Ledeen, Ghorbanifar and the Iraqi source all favor the overthrow of Iran’s current government. Ledeen said that two months ago Ghorbanifar called him with the uranium allegation, and Ledeen pressed the former Iran-Contra figure to check its accuracy. "He called me back and said, `As far as I can tell it’s true.’ On the basis of that I went to the Pentagon," Ledeen said. "The question I have is why doesn’t the CIA go look?" Ledeen asked.

CIA spokesman Bill Harlow said, "We aggressively pursue all legitimate leads on weapons of mass destruction issues. It is true that we have no interest in meeting with Mr. Ghorbanifar since he long ago was proven to be a fabricator and someone who sought to peddle false information for financial gain." Ghorbanifar flunked two lie detector tests for the CIA, and the White House aides and covert operators involved in the arms-for-hostages deals with Iran didn’t trust him, according to testimony from various investigations of that 1980s affair. They continued to deal with Ghorbanifar because of his contacts inside Iran, though eventually pushing him aside in favor of a new middleman.

Ledeen, who once advised the Reagan White House on national security matters, presented the uranium story first to Pentagon official Tom O’Connell, an assistant secretary of defense. Ledeen said he told O’Connell and Pentagon aides he hoped it would dispatch investigators to Iraq to check out the account. "We would do this ourselves, but we have to take this to CIA," Ledeen said a Pentagon aide replied. "All is lost," Ledeen said he responded, believing he would get a poor reception at the CIA. "You may be right, but we have no choice in this matter; go to CIA," the Pentagon aide replied, according to Ledeen.
I say - let’s take a peek.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 6:58:23 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [321 views] Top|| File under:

#1  He's lying, they did kill JFK! I know they did, it's a Government conspiracy!
Posted by: Charles || 10/16/2003 22:29 Comments || Top||


GI’s Work on Reconstruction
AP from Newsday EFL
The new $100,000 water pumping stations were meant to be a gift to Iraqis living in this rural community just outside Baghdad. Instead, the simple gesture sparked a major dispute between rival tribes. Navigating through the maze of tribal loyalties and rivalries will be a crucial test for the U.S.-led coalition as it continues to push ahead with rebuilding Iraq after years of armed conflict, repression, U.N. sanctions and economic ruin. "We’re still learning," sighed Maj. Brent Perley, 40, with the 422nd Civil Affairs Battalion based in Greensboro, N.C. "We’ve made a point to go meet all the local sheiks and tried to spread out the projects." Perley is in charge of evaluating a local community’s needs. Then he doles out hundreds of thousands of dollars in contracts to Iraqis to build everything from schools to clinics to water stations. That’s when things get complicated in an area split between seven sheiks and five tribes. "I hear it all the time. ’They have one so I want one.’ I keep saying that it doesn’t work like that," he said.

The tribalism in Iraq is not quite as marked as that in Afghanistan, where blood ties and tribal allegiances determine everything. But outside the main cities, in the smaller towns and villages that dot the country, tribal chieftains have the run of the place. The latest problem began when a local contractor Sheik Khidir Abbas Khidir, who heads the al-Jabani tribe, was chosen to help build five water pumping stations for the community. But rival tribe Albu Issa objected, saying they wanted their own contractor to do the job on their land. "Last month, when we spoke to the contractor, he said he’d been threatened and his men had been told to leave the area," said 1st. Lt. Patricia Weinstein, 25, of Williamsburg, Va. "We tried to talk reason — that it didn’t matter who did it because the whole community would benefit. But we found out it did matter." Perley, a reservist from Kernersville, N.C., whose regular job is with the U.S. Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said the rules of Iraqi tribal customs "are not in any book." "We’re running into a situation now where we may have to build a separate water station for just 500 people," he said.
I go there with my dealings with the UAW quite often. It’s called the bafflement zone.
The large amounts of money involved in local contracts add to the problems, said Weinstein. "Initially, the sheik had approved our choice, but then his people attacked him for it. They were looking at the money to be made." Perched along the Euphrates River, Jaafar-al-Sakar is a small farming community, with date palm trees lining the road and plenty of potatoes and bananas. However, like in the rest of cash-strapped Iraq, money is in demand. The difficulties cropping up here are not isolated ones, said Master Sgt. Alberto Rodriquez, 39, of New York City, who has traveled around Iraq teaching cultural awareness. Tribes have become increasingly territorial in getting contracts for civil projects in their area. "It’s the same throughout the country. I think they believe the liberties may not last long so they’re trying to get as much as possible. I try to stress that we’re here for the long run," he said.
It’s not hard to understand that type of paranoia. I saw an interview with an old Russian woman who had surviced the Gulag. To this day she can not bring herself not to have like 11 loaves of bread in her pantry. Just in case.
"It’s a matter of getting the sheiks together and pointing out the importance of getting projects done for the whole community. But we’ve also had to compromise, like hiring someone from a different tribe to be involved in the project somehow, as security or maintenance," Rodriquez said.
Find the small things you can change to get the big things done.
Until then, there’s the problem with a new medical clinic, located on al-Janabi tribal land and completely refurbished for $18,000. It was built to provide medical service in an area where the closest hospital is 20 miles away. But some of the other tribes have said they will refuse to go. "They’re not into community sharing. We built a medical center but they won’t recognize it. They want their own," said Perley. "I suspect they’ll use it when they need to."
They will.
Not all the tribal customs have proved so inscrutable. Their community work lands Perley’s unit regular invitations to lunch or dinner in the community — lavish feasts of roast chicken and aromatic rice with raisins. Evenhanded and open, he’s been dubbed "Sheik Perley" — so well-liked in the community that he doesn’t shop at local stores because storekeepers give him cases of soda, food, and even TVs for free, refusing to accept payment. On a recent two-hour luncheon hosted at a principal’s home, Perley worries that he’s not spending enough time on his projects. "Sometimes all this eating keeps us from doing our work," he said. "But then you remember this is how they do business here."
Smart kid.
Going to meetings is a manager's job.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 6:28:50 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [316 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The guy sounds great. He is raising consciousness. Thousands of details like this will show Iraq that there is a better way and everyone wins. We also need to raise consciousness in the domestic front, especially with alot of politicians. This may ultimately prove to be a much greater challenge than getting the sheiks together.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/16/2003 19:24 Comments || Top||

#2  These are the type of people I would have working in state. Guys who love America and can deal effectively with another culture.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 22:14 Comments || Top||


Iraq Council Vows to Hold 2004 Elections
The head of the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council said Wednesday his country will "definitely" hold elections next year and that security won’t be improved by bringing in more foreign troops.
"Mr. Bremer, what if we say, um, how does it go in your country, ’pretty please’?"
Ayad Allawi, current holder of the council’s rotating presidency, was asked by reporters at a summit of Islamic nations when elections would be held, and he responded: "Definitely 2004." The United States has introduced a resolution at the U.N. Security Council that would give Iraqis until Dec. 15 to come up with a timetable for elections and a new constitution, an attempt to meet demands by France, Germany and Russia for a schedule for sovereignty to be returned to Iraq. An aide to Allawi, speaking on condition of anonymity, told The Associated Press that the 2004 election target "is part of the planning; that is our aspiration." Any date would have to be approved by the U.S. governing authority in Iraq. The 25-member Governing Council has been criticized as being too slow to present reforms and follow up on decisions it has made and the committees it has formed, including the writing of a new constitution. Secretary of State Colin Powell has said a constitution could be written in six months. But so far the council has made little progress toward setting up a system for choosing a constitutional assembly.
Okay, so we give them a nudge.
Neighboring Turkey has been the sole Muslim country to offer to send peacekeepers to Iraq, but the Governing Council and many Iraqis object, fearing that Turkey’s long-running conflict with its ethnic Kurds could spill over into Iraq’s Kurdish areas. A car bomb exploded Tuesday outside the Turkish Embassy in Baghdad, killing two people. The Governing Council has been adamant that it does not want peacekeepers from neighboring countries, fearing they would end up interfering in Iraq’s internal affairs.
Yep.
At a news conference Wednesday, council members gave conflicting statements suggesting they did not want peacekeeping troops from Islamic or any other countries, but agreed on a rejection of forces from Iraq’s neighbors. "We do not prefer troops from neighboring countries to enter Iraq ... in fact we do not prefer forces from other Islamic countries to participate in Iraq because we believe that we, the people of Iraq, are capable of maintaining peace and security," Muhsin Abdul Hamid, a council member, told the news conference. "We are working very closely with the coalition forces in Iraq to find a reasonable, acceptable formula where the Iraqis themselves can be in charge of the security themselves instead of other forces, and we think we can meet that challenge," he added.
So let’s get that Iraqi army and police force trained.
Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told reporters that Iraq did not want troops from its neighbors and that the "general view (is) we will not improve the security by bringing in more troops." Asked whether Iraq wanted to get to the stage as soon as possible where Iraqis were in charge without U.S. or British forces, Zebari responded: "Exactly, that’s right, and this process should start."

The Iraqis are in Malaysia for a summit of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, a 57-nation group that worked for several days over a draft resolution welcoming the Governing Council to take the seat formerly held by Saddam Hussein’s government. But they threw the summit into uncertainty Wednesday by saying they might seek the postponement of the draft resolution, which also calls for the United Nations to have a "central role" in Iraq and for a "U.N. resolution to set a schedule for the return of power to the Iraqi people." Allawi told reporters: "The Governing Council is the central role in Iraq."
Good, they’ve been paying attention to our ’discussions’ with the French at the UN.
Zebari said there were "procedural problems" with the way the OIC resolution had been drafted by the foreign ministers and that Iraq’s representatives had not had a chance to approve it before its submission Thursday and Friday to OIC national leaders. The statement had been considered a breakthrough, allowing critics of the U.S.-led invasion to find common ground with Arab countries that have already recognized the council as a transitional government.
Usual OIC progress.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/16/2003 2:35:08 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [269 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "the people of Iraq, are capable of maintaining peace and security," Hmmm...impressive. Strange to hear words of strength and independence instead of the usual groveling, victimization and whining to mommy for a bigger allowance.
Posted by: B || 10/16/2003 8:34 Comments || Top||

#2  Go the ground-up route. There are already popularly elected city councils all over the country. Let them choose their fair portion of delegates, or split it - the councils choose some, some are popularly elected in their own right.

Avoid top-down like the plague at this point. The eventual constitution will provide the top-down system.
Posted by: mojo || 10/16/2003 11:48 Comments || Top||


Pentagon to Confront Moqtada
Iraq’s U.S.-led authorities are preparing for a showdown with a militant Shiite Muslim cleric whose illegal militia has fought recent gunbattles with both American troops and moderate Shiites, Pentagon officials said. The preferred options include arresting Moqtada al-Sadr, whom American officials view as a possible threat to the U.S.-led military coalition occupying Iraq. However, the Americans also want to avoid touching off rioting or other violence by moving against the cleric.
Let the Iraqi cops arrest him and dismember him.
The 22 30-year-old cleric lies about his age exhorts his followers with fiery anti-American sermons but so far has stopped short of calling for attacks on U.S. military forces. His militia openly defies the U.S.-led administration’s bans on private armies and people carrying unlicensed guns. Al-Sadr’s followers have engaged in deadly shootouts with other Shiite groups and American troops in the past two weeks, most recently in the holy city of Karbala south of Baghdad on Tuesday.
Three good reasons to jug him now.
On the other hand, he got his butt kicked and came out looking foolish, so maybe we should wait a week...
U.S. officials believe al-Sadr’s actions require a response. What that response will be will be determined over the next few days.
There are enough martyrs in the Shiite pantheon...
The official suggested other Shiite groups or Iraqi security forces could also deal with al-Sadr on their own.
Best idea is to let the Iraqi security forces do it in da name of da law. We’d provide them advice, GPS coordinates and crew-served weapons, of course.
Such unusually strong comments from Pentagon officials could suggest some imminent U.S.-backed move, or perhaps an attempt by American officials to get al-Sadr to back down without a fight. Arresting or moving against al-Sadr could spark unrest among his followers, many of whom are young, unemployed, illiterate, superstitious, have bad breath and armed. But U.S. military and coalition officials are finding it harder to ignore al-Sadr’s increasingly open challenges to the American occupation of the country and to Iraqis who cooperate with it. Last Friday, al-Sadr declared he had formed his own government to rule Iraq and called on his followers to peacefully protest until that government was recognized. The U.S.-led coalition has arrested other self-declared rulers of parts of Iraq. Armed al-Sadr supporters staged demonstrations Wednesday in Najaf as armed followers of more moderate Shiite clerics looked on. Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, al-Sadr said U.S. forces should announce a timetable for a quick withdrawal from Iraq. ``Whoever cooperates with the occupation forces is not a Shiite,’’ he said. ``Indeed, they are not Muslims.’’
The "i" word should follow shortly.
Iraq’s U.S.-appointed interior minister went on a coalition broadcast inside the country on Tuesday to denounce al-Sadr as ``a common criminal and a disgrace to his country and his religion.’’
Disgrace to his country yes, but to his religion? He seems sorta middle of the fairway there.
Al-Sadr appears to draw his followers mainly from stupid young and lazy easily misled poverty-stricken eye rolling Shiites in places like Sadr City, a slum-ridden section of Baghdad named after the cleric’s father, who was shot to death during Saddam’s rule.
So al-Sadr’s an ingrate as well.

Best solution would be for the Iraqi cops to handle the situation under the aegis of the interior ministry, while the U.S. piously announces that we're leaving it to them because they know more about it than we do — the while providing the target coordinates, of course. Move in response to an incident like this past week, and kill him accidentally. Best solution is to have him knocked off by a stray bullet fired by one of his own supporters — some of the ex-mukhabarat guys we've hired could set that up. Sends the message that we respect the Iraqis' religious feelings and we'll go out of our way not to offend their delicate little sensibilities, and it sends the other message not to screw with the new gummint.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/16/2003 2:20:23 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [266 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And he needs to be stopped NOW before he becomes the Khomeini of Iraq
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 10/16/2003 2:30 Comments || Top||

#2  Sadr has two main problems...too young and not a well learned religious scholar. But he will accelarate his studies and become a fully fledged Ayatollah in less than five year and he will wear a fake white beard in the process. Then he will be a real menace. And there will not be America to stop him.If Saddam had not killed his dad we would be in a mess now in Iraq. Coz the old man had more following than all other Ayatollahs in Iraq. Plus he hated America.
Posted by: stevestradamus || 10/16/2003 5:39 Comments || Top||

#3  stevestradamus


Do you know the color of his turban? Black as
used by the descendents of Muhammad or white as
used by the other mullahs? For the Shia this
makes a lot of difference.


But I agree it would be nice if he had a work accident. Korans explode at times.

Posted by: JFM || 10/16/2003 6:52 Comments || Top||

#4  Wow!I, shoucked.
Steveyboy had a coherent,reasonable response.

What happen.Stevey?
Did your Drs.finally get your meds figured out?
Posted by: Raptor || 10/16/2003 8:44 Comments || Top||

#5  Does Sadr really lie about his age? So he can be a Boy Wonder?

I tell you folks, this quality reporting is why I come to Rantburg! Can't get this stuff from CNN...
Posted by: Seafarious || 10/16/2003 10:50 Comments || Top||

#6  He's wearing a black turban. Pure bullshit, in my opinion.
Posted by: mojo || 10/16/2003 11:52 Comments || Top||

#7  Best solution would be for the Iraqi cops to handle the situation under the aegis of the interior ministry, while the U.S. piously announces that we're leaving it to them because they know more about it than we do — the while providing the target coordinates, of course.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a covert operation, like a Predator-fired Hellfire missile under cover of a pitch-black Iraqi night...
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 15:23 Comments || Top||

#8  How about somebody caves in his skull with a big friggin' rock on a pitch black Iraqi night. You could blame a jealous husband.
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 17:06 Comments || Top||


Many Troops Dissatisfied, Iraq Poll Finds
Rantburgers will not be surprised at this/EFL:
A broad survey of U.S. troops in Iraq by a Pentagon-funded newspaper found that half of those questioned described their unit’s morale as low and their training as insufficient, and said they do not plan to reenlist. The survey, conducted by the Stars and Stripes newspaper, also recorded about a third of the respondents complaining that their mission lacks clear definition and characterizing the war in Iraq as of little or no value. Fully 40 percent said the jobs they were doing had little or nothing to do with their training. The findings, drawn from 1,935 questionnaires presented to U.S. service members throughout Iraq, conflict with statements by military commanders and Bush administration officials that portray the deployed troops as high-spirited and generally well-prepared.
This is a Washington Post report. Betcha the writer's never worn green...
Though not obtained through scientific methods, the survey results suggest that a combination of difficult conditions, complex missions and prolonged tours in Iraq is wearing down a significant portion of the U.S. force and threatening to provoke a sizable exodus from military service.... The paper’s project recorded significant differences in the morale of various units, but overall found that Army troops tended to sound more dissatisfied than Air Force personnel and Marines, and that reservists were the most troubled. Uncertainty about when they are returning home was a major factor in dampening morale, according to the newspaper. The interviews were conducted at a time when some reserve and regular Army units were learning that their tours had been extended. The Pentagon has since sought to provide a clearer rotation plan and has begun granting troops two-week home leaves.
It's kind of a law of military nature that you like assignments best when they're over. I hate taking orders and I hate giving orders, and I was really happy when retirement time came around. Now, if I wasn't stiff and arthritic and I was 20 years younger, I'd go back in without hesistation. And I'd probably hate it once I did. It's not easy work, and there's a lot of boredom involved and a lot of making do, and one hell of a lot of stuff that's not in the job description. Most of these guys will also go back to civilian life — or to their next assignments — with a sense of accomplishment.
Although Pentagon officials say they have seen no sign yet of a rise in the number of troops deciding against reenlisting, the survey suggested that such a surge may be coming soon. A total of 49 percent of those questioned said it was "very unlikely" or "not likely" that they would remain in the military after they complete their current obligations. In the past, enlistment rates tended to drop after conflicts, but many defense experts and noncommissioned officers have warned of the potential for a historically high exodus, particularly of reservists.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/16/2003 12:56:36 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [346 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Rantburgers will not be surprised at this

That's true - the Washington Post does have a record of lying about the facts to distort reality.

Fully 40 percent said the jobs they were doing had little or nothing to do with their training.

That is correct. American troops are trained to fight and kill large enemy formations. They are not garrison/occupation troops by training.

A total of 49 percent of those questioned said it was "very unlikely" or "not likely" that they would remain in the military after they complete their current obligations.

The re-enlistment rates in the combat arms (vs the non-combat troops) is generally low. Most of the combat troops sign up to see the world or for the adventure. They've seen the world - had their adventure. Next stop - back to the civilian world.

Note that Dana Milbank is a known Bush-hater who has not hesitated to twist the meaning of developments that seem to favor the president's agenda. Milbank is just another indication of how WaPo is becoming just as liberal as the New York Times. I wonder if the Newsweek editors have taken over. (WaPo and Newsweek are part of the same media conglomerate, but Newsweek reads a lot like the Nation).
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/16/2003 1:18 Comments || Top||

#2  I guess the proof will be in the pudding, won't it? Either they will or they won't.

Seems like you'd have to compare these results to "normal" or "average" responses (prior to current combat operations) for this to mean anything at all. I note any such comparison is noticeably absent.
Posted by: B || 10/16/2003 1:32 Comments || Top||

#3  wow, troops on deployment overseas who complain. Why, I've never heard of such a thing. Perhaps the next posted article will be:

"young male troops engage in after hour antics such as underage drinking and attempting to procure women of low virtue"
or
" young troops say short hair cuts imposed by military out of step with current fashion"
or
"military wives tend to miss husbands deployed for long period of time"

Do some reporting you slacker, earn your pay. This is not news.
Posted by: Frank Martin || 10/16/2003 1:46 Comments || Top||

#4  I think it's a valid observation--during the Clinton peace many soldiers stayed in the Reserves knowing that their chances of being called up were virtually nil; now that we have a war mongering nut in the White House (or more importantly Blair House) the equation has changed and the go play soldier monthly exercise has turned into--go to Iraq
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 10/16/2003 2:27 Comments || Top||

#5  Zhange Fei

...Dana Milbank is a known Bush-hater...

is there like a register or something? it looks like that whoever disagrees with Dubya's policies is automatically classified as a bush hater.

...American troops are trained to fight and kill large enemy formations

well, yes, and they do that very well, perhaps the US administration should have had a plan on how to manage the country after the conflict was over. instead they pissed off just about every country who would be in a position to send troops (except for the relaibale mongolians of course)

Posted by: Igs || 10/16/2003 2:58 Comments || Top||

#6  during the Clinton peace

hahaha good one, the Pax Clintona.
Posted by: Rafael || 10/16/2003 3:01 Comments || Top||

#7  instead they pissed off just about every country who would be in a position to send troops

You mean all those countries were not pissed to begin with??
Posted by: Rafael || 10/16/2003 3:04 Comments || Top||

#8  Rafael...lol...good response, will give credit where it's due
Posted by: Igs || 10/16/2003 3:07 Comments || Top||

#9  I received one of these surveys about two years ago. Quite amusing. A lot of questions are worded in such a way as to provoke a negative response. This story is funny. When I was overseas I didn't know anyone who would rather be there then back home. However, after we got back, there was not a mass exodus to get out of the service as the reporter says. If you give the young lads a forum to complain in, of course they're gonna take advantage of it. Compared to past generations who really did have it bad - there will always be pissing & moaning about the chow, the weather, the heads, no showers, their boots, the mission, why their there, mail's slow, problems at home, "I miss my mom,wife,girlfriend,dog," etc. Blah,blah,blah. There's an old Marine maxim - Bitching grunts are happy grunts. It's when they stop bitching you need to worry about.
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/16/2003 7:39 Comments || Top||

#10  NMM and Igs: You have just exhibited the classic "seeing what you want to see". Funny thing is that there is nothing to see here, as she gave you absolutely NOTHING to compare it too. There is no metric here. Is 49% LOWER than the response during Pax Clinton years?? You obviously don't know. But your willingness to jump to a conclusion that "whatever, it must be Bush's fault" is what inspires lazy reporters to write opinion rather than fact. Your willingness to buy damaged goods so easily lowers the quality of merchandise for everyone.
Posted by: B || 10/16/2003 8:11 Comments || Top||

#11  i dont see whats the big deal either way.

No its not surprising
1. Many of them have been there a long time - good reason to grouse.
2. Lots of them are doing different jobs then what they trained for. I mean if you trained to be an artillery man, and now you're doing police work, or civil affairs work, you might well be pissed, no?
3. The reservists are particularly unhappy. Yup. They signed up expecting to be called up for civil emergencies, and to go overseas for an acute emergency - like a conventional conflict - i doubt any expected year long assignments overseas or had any reason to. This doesnt mean bush is wrong - the reason to make those assignments are pretty strong. It doesnt mean the reservists are wrong - it IS more than they legitimately bargained for. And its not wrong of the Wapo to report it. It is news. Thats just the way life is sometimes. Sometimes the BEST option still has negative consequences.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 9:17 Comments || Top||

#12  LH - so if an artilleryman were still fighting their way into Baghdad, they'd feel better about it? I don't think so - all of the above except NMM and Igs, your points are taken - nobody wants to be in a foreign land when they could be at home, nobody wants to be in uncomfortable jobs that they didn't particularly train for, yadda yadda, but that's what they signed up for. Pax Clintona gave us NK with nukes, an Iran on the verge of nukes, 9/11, etc. I'd think for your own self-respect you two would think better of bringing that asshat up
Posted by: Frank G || 10/16/2003 9:36 Comments || Top||

#13  is there like a register or something? it looks like that whoever disagrees with Dubya's policies is automatically classified as a bush hater.

Actually, there is a list, but it's not a list of people - it's a list of articles written by Milbank where Bush says "X" and Milbank tells us that Bush is really saying "Y". I don't need liberal "analyses" by mere journalists - just give me the news straight - I can figure the news out for myself without it being shaded by the Democratic media.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/16/2003 9:37 Comments || Top||

#14  The word I'm getting from my active duty contacts, industry recruiters, and National Guard acquaintences is pretty much in line with the article. It's not just Iraq -- although Iraq has become the bale of straw placed on the camel's back. It's the Ops Tempo.

With contemporary family structure and the role of women, including military wives, in the workforce, the Army finally discoverd that Mom is the real recruiting Sergeant. And if Mom doesn't want to re-up, then Dad is under pressure not to.

The overall forces are being deployed more often, with less clearly defined deployment durations, and with decreased turnaround times at their home stations. In short, their family and home station times are being drastically reduced. Not only are they talking about getting our, but they are acting to do so -- contacting recruiters, trying to move to other units with lower deployment probabilities, and getting out.

At the national leader level, they hear Rumsfeld talking about reducing the Army by two divisions, the Marine Corps by 12 aircraft squadrons, and the Air Force by another 6,000 military personnel -- while indicating that the Guard, Reserves, and Active Duty forces will be deployed even more. It's called a trend.

And there is empirical and anecdoteal evidence that there is a countervailing trend developing -- getting out.
Posted by: Highlander || 10/16/2003 10:56 Comments || Top||

#15  I was stationed in Korea for a year. Nobody was shooting at us, we had cold beer/hot food, cheap hookers, and all the goodies in the BX we wanted. Guess what? People still bitched about being there and at least half of us wanted to be somewhere else. Only crazy people (and Marines) enjoy a place that is dangerous. And recruiting for the military runs in cycles (like the ecponomy) and yes people do get out and then new people come in. A fair amount stay the course and provide the continuity of service. Note: If we started to pull out of some of these 'overpatrolled' regions (Korea, Bosnia, etc) then the ops tempo would relax.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/16/2003 11:07 Comments || Top||

#16  FG - well maybe artilleryman is a bad example (although i suspect what an artilleryman wants is to spend a couple of weeks fighting - and then head home to get trained on newer and better artillery. - Not to baby sit Iraqi mayors, build water pipes) Presumably there are other specialties that would make the point better.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 11:08 Comments || Top||

#17  Hmm, I remember seeing aricles stating the Military has easily met all its recruiting goals this year. I guess the continued march by the left to turn this into a Vietnam and another loss for America continues.
Posted by: Patrick || 10/16/2003 13:12 Comments || Top||

#18  I can't believe Rumsfeld can be this stupid. I usually find him to be level-headed and cautious. We need one of two things: either a larger military, or fewer missions. I don't see either one happening. That means the US military will be stretched to, and possibly beyond, its limits. As for the jobs, we are lousy at occupation. It usually takes is a full year to switch over from being a fighting force to being an occupation force, with the majority of the combat-experienced troops being moved from the war zone before it happens. We don't have enough troops to completely switch out the entire complement of combat troops in Iraq, nor do I believe it's yet reasonable to do that.

I spent four years as a reservist in the late 1970's. I was never called up. Two-thirds of those in my reserve outfit had been there for ten years or more, and hadn't been called up. The expectations have changed from the top, and the lower echelon hasn't caught on yet. Yeah, they're gonna bitch. Maybe they should have read that enlistment contract a bit more closely - they have NOT been mistreated. They're just either lazy or stupid, and should have seen this coming. The information that Reserve/Guard duties were changing has been around for more than ten years now.

I am becoming less and less pleased with the Bush administration, and totally hosed-off at the unmentionable other party for words that come very close to treason. Our national "press" should all be forced to find real jobs, and our academia needs to have to work for a living digging ditches for a few years.

Forgive me, but I'm really, really pissed today. If there were recruiters for the next revolution, I'd gladly sign. Our government, and our nation, are tanking, because too many government employees don't believe in working for their paycheck, and our elected 'officials' think their only 'duty' is to spend my money. "Government efficiency" is an oxymoron. If I have to fill out one more paper one more time because some federal employee lost the original, I think I'm going to go postal. Six times in four months is not 'accidental', and I'm ready to rip some heads off...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/16/2003 13:23 Comments || Top||

#19  Note that the regular Army had the lowest morale. This is what I've seen everywhere. If you just interview Air Force, Marines, and Army Rangers and Special Forces, I'd bet the numbers change dramatically. The Army needs to take a page from the Air Force on treating their people right, and a page from the Marines on instilling a sense of self-worth and pride. Treating soldiers like dirt and then asking them to perform open-ended unclear missions is not going to produce high morale. But, the more accurate survey would be to interview the same group a month after they get home. A lot of the boring bad times disappear from memory in a short amount of time in the land of good FDA-approved tap water.
Posted by: BossMan || 10/16/2003 14:28 Comments || Top||

#20  Statistics will show that more soldiers, sailors airmen and marines are contacting corporate recruiters. This may effect retention in the end - but it is more a result of the popularization of recruiters. When I got out of the service, very few Americans knew about corparate recruiters. Job fair type information didn't start until you were into the seperation pipeline. That all changed when Monstor.com began running commercials.

Most of the army guys will tell each other that things suck but will be secretly proud. That will end when they return home and are thanked by several civilians. I don't think it happened after Viet Nam, but I remember the patriotism in Va Beach after Gulf War I. I remember that Whitney Houston did a benefit concert on the Air Base that meant quite a bit to the people coming home.

Some combat troops will certainly leave the service for good. Others will miss the friendship - the band of brothers mentality. A good many will end up in the reserves down the road.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||

#21  "they hear Rumsfeld talking about reducing the Army by two divisions, the Marine Corps by 12 aircraft squadrons"

This is the first time I've heard we're losing 12 squadrons. Highlander, do you recall when Rumsfeld said this? We have about 50 squadrons in active service and 19 reserve squadrons. He might be nixing the reserve squadrons - that could be feasible. However, taking more than 20% of our active duty air power probably is not.
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/16/2003 15:14 Comments || Top||

#22  OP: I can't believe Rumsfeld can be this stupid. I usually find him to be level-headed and cautious. We need one of two things: either a larger military, or fewer missions. I don't see either one happening. That means the US military will be stretched to, and possibly beyond, its limits.

I think Rumsfeld is cutting units to save money - period. And there are several reasons for this - among others: (1) raising the military budget is politically difficult to accomplish, (2) once raised, the military budget provides the Democrats with a politically-convenient target - why more guns - why not more butter?, (3) we need to allocate more money to researching new weapons systems - the current generation is practically tapped out and (4) men can be trained up relatively quickly, but a decade of research cannot as easily be summoned up, and these days, the quality of weaponry literally makes the difference between victory and defeat.

OP: As for the jobs, we are lousy at occupation. It usually takes is a full year to switch over from being a fighting force to being an occupation force, with the majority of the combat-experienced troops being moved from the war zone before it happens.

It's not so much that we're lousy at occupation as garrison duty inherently diminishes many of our advantages, which pertain to destroying massed and clearly identifiable enemy units. At the same time, it is also true that we will eventually wear them down.*

* It was no accident that the Vietnamese kept on using regiment-sized units to come after US troops during the Vietnam War. Guerrillas need a place to rest and recuperate without having to worry about the next raid. These Vietnamese attacks were designed (but failed) to discourage American search-and-destroy missions that pulverized their staging areas again and again. Iraqi terrorists are going to have considerable difficulty replenishing their ranks, ammo and funding, given the repeated raids that American troops conduct with impunity because of Saddam's lack of a sanctuary.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/16/2003 15:55 Comments || Top||

#23  This is true "And if Mom doesn't want to re-up, then Dad is under pressure not to." That's was a serious issue before the war and is certainly a much greater one now. For active duty, it could be easily fixed if they didn't move the families so often. Families can endure the separation, but not if they are moving and losing their support networks. In todays world, spouse's careers and support networks just can't survive the uprooting. In the not so long ago days, you didn't NEED the second income and the wive's club offered the support. Just not true anymore. The services talk the talk about home basing ...but they don't walk the walk. I'm sure that has a huge impact on family pressure to get out.

But that's just for the active duty. For the reserves, it's an occupational hazard. They should have considered the reasons why they were getting such great pay, bennies and retirement for two weeks of play.
Posted by: B || 10/16/2003 16:17 Comments || Top||

#24  hey B, I never commented on the accuracy or validity of the survey. Having some experience in the design/management and analysis of surveys I know better than to comment unless having all the facts before me
Posted by: Igs || 10/16/2003 21:31 Comments || Top||

#25  fair enough. But this is hardly the article to get your panties in a wad over someone noting that Dana twists her results to reflect badly on President Bush. Afterall, this just an opinion piece. There is no real reporting here. She simply asked some questions and then, with no basis in fact, gave her own interpretation which reflected negatively on Bush. Perhaps it's not "Bush Hating", but it's a poor example for your point - no?
Posted by: B || 10/17/2003 10:22 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Hambali’s Wife Detained
Malaysia has placed the wife of captured South-East Asian terrorist suspect Hambali into detention without trial for at least two years for alleged ties to the al-Qaeda-linked Jemaah Islamiah network.
Goodbye!
Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi signed the order for Noralwizah Lee Abdullah to be detained under the Internal Security Act after police - who have interrogated her for almost two months - deemed her a "national security threat". Noralwizah, 33, a Malaysian, was arrested on August 11 with Hambali in Thailand and handed over to Malaysian authorities. Hambali, an Indonesian whose real name is Riduan Isamuddin, is Jemaah Islamiah’s alleged operations chief. The Malaysian official said Noralwizah is a member of Jemaah Islamiah who underwent an "initiation ceremony" in the organisation several years ago. In the ceremony, recruits pledge to be "willing to die in helping to defeat the enemies of Islam".
She learned the secret handshake
"She was more than a wife to Hambali," the official said. "She was a trusted aide who handled funds of the Jemaah Islamiah."
That’s rather unusual for a islamic group, guess she is one of those asian "dragon lady" types.
The official said Noralwizah still wielded "some influence" in the network, despite Hambali’s arrest. He did not elaborate.
"I can say no more"
Hambali has reportedly been yielding details of Jemaah Islamiah’s membership, funding networks and planned terrorist operations to interrogators since his arrest.
Even if he’s not, it’s good to say he is.
His younger brother, Rusman Gunawan, was arrested by Pakistani police along with 13 Malaysians, two Burmese and another Indonesian at Islamic schools in Karachi last month. Malaysian officials have said the students were being groomed as future leaders of the suspected terrorist network. At least three of the Malaysian suspects have fathers who are in custody under Malaysia’s Internal Security Act for alleged Jemaah Islamiah membership.
It’s that family thing again.
Hambali was among dozens of Indonesian religious radicals who fled their country during a crackdown in the late 1980s and moved to Malaysia, where they built a network using a now-closed Islamic school in the southern state of Johor as a recruiting station. Noralwizah married Hambali in the early 1990s after they met at the school.
School girl crush on her teacher, huh?
More likely Uncle Abdullah traded him his daughter for a goat...
Hambali and Noralwizah disappeared after the September 11 attacks in the United States, and he was South-East Asia’s most-wanted terrorist suspect until his arrest. Thai officials have said he may have been plotting attacks to disrupt the upcoming summit in Bangkok of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum.
Which is next week, I believe. Stay tuned.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 3:22:39 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [273 views] Top|| File under:


al-Qaida Replacing Bagged Leaders in Asia
Long article, EFL:
Al-Qaida-linked terrorists in Asia have quickly replaced captured leaders with a new operations chief and top bomb makers who are plotting deadly attacks on international hotels and other Western targets in the region. The arrest of Hambali - Osama bin Laden’s alleged point man in Asia - and the cracking of a terror ring blamed for bombings in Bali did temporarily disrupt the loose Jemaah Islamiyah network, said a senior Indonesian intelligence adviser. But the leadership vacuum left by Hambali’s Aug. 11 arrest in Thailand was filled within three weeks, even as the Islamic militant group carried out a recruiting drive in Indonesia - already home to about 2,000 of its 3,000 members. In AP interviews, the adviser and other Asian officials who spoke on condition of anonymity identified the three top new Jemaah Islamiyah leaders as: Zulkarnaen, an Indonesian believed to have replaced Hambali as operations chief; Azahari bin Husin, a Malaysian academic and reputed top bomb maker; and Dulmatin, an Indonesian allegedly involved in the Bali blasts, which killed 202 people a year ago. Zulkarnaen leads an elite squad of militants called Laskar Khos, or special force, according to Lt. Gen. Erwin Mapasseng, Indonesia’s chief of detectives. He said the group had been recruited from some 300 Indonesians who trained in the past in Afghanistan and the Philippines.
"Everyone comes to Afghanistan"
Azahari, 46, known as "Dr. Azahari," fled Malaysia in 2001 and is believed to be hiding on Indonesia’s Sumatra island.
He’s the bomb expert
Authorities have singled out Dulmatin as the man who allegedly detonated the Bali blasts. He is also said to have built some of the explosives used in a series of Christmas Eve bombings in Indonesia in 2000. The three men held a meeting in March on Sebatik - a small island off the coast of Borneo - to map out what they see as a holy war, according to the Indonesian intelligence adviser, who said it’s unknown whether Hambali also attended. Sidney Jones, a Jemaah Islamiyah expert who wrote a report on the organization for the International Crisis Group, said progress has been made in capturing and killing militants and stopping terror plots. "The problem is the organization is simply larger and more sophisticated than anyone believed," Jones said. More than 200 Jemaah Islamiyah members have been arrested in five countries. Meantime, Jemaah Islamiyah is reorganizing in three main Indonesian regions - Kalimantan, Sulawesi and Sumatra - said the intelligence adviser. Cash believed to come from al-Qaida to finance attacks is hand carried to Indonesia via Malaysia and arms and explosives are entering Indonesia through the largely unpatrolled waterways between Mindanao island in the southern Philippines and Indonesia’s Sulawesi island, two intelligence officials said. A typical bombing costs about $10,000, the intelligence adviser said.
Plus food, travel, lodging, etc..
Investigations into Jemaah Islamiyah have exposed links between Islamic militants in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, the Philippines and Singapore. These include alliances between Jemaah Islamiyah and Kumpulan Militan Malaysia as well as Abu Sayyaf and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front in the Philippines.
One big happy inbred family
Seven militants recently arrested in Indonesia’s North Sulawesi region admitted plans to train with Moro Front guerrillas in Mindanao, said Philippine Brig. Gen. Victor Corpus. Training was detected in a vast, marshy section of Mindanao called the Buliok Complex, prompting the army to launch an offensive last February. On the Philippines’ southern Jolo island, escaped Filipino and Indonesian hostages reported two Indonesians, believed to be Jemaah Islamiyah operatives, training about 100 Abu Sayyaf recruits in explosive-making and combat this year.
Which the MILF and Abu Sayyaf deny.
Yet, cooperation with Washington is becoming a political liability in countries with large Muslim populations furious over U.S. policy in the Mideast.
You knew they had to work that in somewhere.
Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri and other national leaders don’t publicly mention Jemaah Islamiyah by name in the country, which is home to more Muslims than any other nation, roughly 200 million. And the government has not declared Jemaah Islamiyah a terrorist organization - making it impossible to prosecute membership in it as a crime - and has refused to shut down Islamic boarding schools associated with militants.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 2:48:08 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [278 views] Top|| File under:


Jews rule the world - Mahathir
More ravings from the Malaysian Moonbat
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has called on Muslims to use brains as well as brawn to fight Jews who "rule the world".
People who used their brains wouldn’t waste time listening to verbal vomit like this...
However, Dr Mahathir also called on Muslims to build their military might. "The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy... 1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews," he said, speaking at the opening of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference in the Malaysian administrative capital Putrajaya. Dr Mahathir, who is renowned for using such conferences to make scathing attacks on the West, bows out as prime minister in a week’s time after a 22-year rule.
What a terrible shame.
"This tiny community has become a world power. We cannot fight them through brawn alone. We must use our brains as well," the prime minister said.
"For the first, and hopefully, only, time."
"Y'see, they got these Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, y'know? So what we need, we need to get together some Learned Elders of Islam and... Oh. We've done that. Howcome nobody invited me?"
He said that 50 years of fighting had only worsened the situation for Palestinians and urged engagement in negotiations.
I think what he means is: take a break, discuss options for the dismantlement of Israel with Israel (maybe phrase it nice, or something), and the conversion of infidels to Islam, and see what happens. Then when that doesn’t work, get back to the killin’.
"The Koran tells us that when the enemy sues for peace we must react positively. True the treaty offered to us is not favourable. But we can negotiate — the Prophet did," he said.
And when the "enemy" finally gets tired of being called an "enemy", and decides to smite some Muslim ass...?
However, he also urged Muslims to match their religious studies with mathematics and science, because "we need guns and rockets, bombs and warplanes, tanks and warships for our defence".
That’s what you need when you’re up against a handful of Joos. Them and their Proxie Horde.
He told the conference that Jewish "arrogance" meant that they would "forget to think". "They are already beginning to make mistakes. And they will make more mistakes. There may be windows of opportunity for us now and in the future. We must seize these opportunities," he said.
"Yes, that’s it — let’s hope our enemy makes mistakes. Then we can club ’em. And club ’em good."
This week’s conference is the first time the group has met since the 11 September attacks.
Et plus ca change...
Posted by: Bulldog || 10/16/2003 6:52:07 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [265 views] Top|| File under:

#1  (subtle Irony) The Elders of Zion say "Fuck Mahathir !"
Posted by: The Dodo || 10/16/2003 7:32 Comments || Top||

#2  We cannot fight them through brawn alone. We must use our brains as well," the prime minister said.

300 Moslems/1 Jew
I like the odds for the Yid.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 8:04 Comments || Top||

#3  mahathir is a strange combination of gutter rhetoric and pragmatic actions. While spouting all this garbage, he aggressively pursues al qaeeda. Even in this speech what does he call for - lets change strategy and negotiate - if we're offered an unfavourable treaty (baraks offer at Taba?) lets not walk away in a huff and fight (like Yasser did) lets make a counter offer - stripped to the antisemitic rhetoric its actually quite sensible by islamic world standards. The rhetoric is aimed as much at George Soros, against whom Mahathir has a personal grudge, as against Israel. the strange blend of pragmatism and bizarre rhetoric (which in the West would only be spouted by Nazi types) emphasizes to me the way the islamic world still is like another planet.

BTW - Bulldog - maybe y'all could have brought in a few more Hindus back when you ran the place?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 9:05 Comments || Top||

#4  mahathir is a strange combination of gutter rhetoric and pragmatic actions. While spouting all this garbage, he aggressively pursues al qaeeda.

Mahathir is pursuing the Mubarak strategy - Islamizing Malaysian society while attacking terrorists. The problem is that one contradicts the other. Look for Malaysia to become a leading exporter of terrorists in the next 20 years. I understand that one of the September 11 hijackers was Malaysian.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/16/2003 9:43 Comments || Top||

#5  Zhang Fei-
All the 9/11 pigs were Arab. A couple of them went to a jihadi-confab in Malaysia.
Posted by: OminousWhatever || 10/16/2003 10:27 Comments || Top||

#6  Anyone in the West who said something like this would be rightly run out of office. But we tolerate it when a barbarian says it.
Posted by: SPQR 2755 || 10/16/2003 10:32 Comments || Top||

#7  Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has called on Muslims to use brains as well as brawn to fight Jews who "rule the world".

Poor Islam. These people really need to get over this obsession with Jews.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 10:34 Comments || Top||

#8  He told the conference that Jewish "arrogance" meant that they would "forget to think".

Unlike us enlightened muslims who never remembered to think in the first place. 'To explode belt press here.'
Posted by: rg117 || 10/16/2003 12:11 Comments || Top||

#9  If 15 million Jews really control 6 billion non-Muslims, I'm converting!
Posted by: Greg || 10/16/2003 13:43 Comments || Top||

#10  LH looks around for the 400 muslims he controls. Doesnt see any. Is profoundly disappointed.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 15:29 Comments || Top||


Bali Boom Boy bottled, no expiration date
An Afghan-trained militant who tearfully apologized to relatives during his trial was convicted and sentenced to life in prison Thursday for helping plan and finance the Bali bombings which killed 202 people.
Guess the tearful ’apology’ spared him the rope.
Too bad the 202 dead guys didn't get the opportunity to make tearful apologies so they could avoid being slaughtered...
Mubarok, a 34-year-old Indonesian, was found guilty of attending planning meetings for the Oct. 12, 2002, blasts and using his bank account to deposit money that was later used to buy chemicals and the minivan for the attack. Mubarok, whose real name is Hutumo Pamungkas, ``has been proven legally and convincingly guilty of planning to commit the terror action,’’ said presiding judge I Nengah Suryada. The defendant faced a possible death sentence but was given a life sentence because of his confession and remorse, the judge said. His lawyers said the defense has not yet decided whether to appeal the sentence.
"If he has any jihadi dollars stashed away we’ll appeal, maybe we can drain him!"
Mubarok, like many of the key defendants, learned bomb making and weapons handling in Afghanistan and later helped train fellow terrorists in camps in the Philippines. But unlike several of the defendants who declared the attack was justified to avenge the suffering of Muslims, Mubarok expressed regret over it. At one point during the trial, a sobbing Mubarok told the court: ``I feel so sorry for what I’ve done. I hope the families can forgive me.’’
Hope in one hand, poop in the other. See which one fills first...
About 10 relatives and friends of victims were in the courtroom. One shouted ``thank you!’’ to the five-judge panel after the verdict was read.
Nope, not forgiving him just yet.
Mubarok slumped in his chair during the reading of the verdict and said nothing as he was led out of the courtroom.
Life in an Indonesian prison, there’s something to look forward to! Wonder if anyone ever mentioned that while he was in "terrorist school"?
Posted by: Steve White || 10/16/2003 2:07:43 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [566 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I hope that if one of the victims of the bali bombing was a muslim that his relatives will find a way to apply to him the "vandetta" principle of the enlightened "religion of peace".
Posted by: The Dodo || 10/16/2003 4:53 Comments || Top||


Terror Networks
The rise and fall of Ansar al-Islam
By Scott Peterson, The Christian Science Monitor EFL Hat tip to the Brothers Judd
Washington fingered Ansar al-Islam as a terrorist group experimenting with poisons, and used its tenuous links to Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda to help justify the war against Iraq. . . . Lengthy interviews with several Ansar members now in custody, and with officials and intelligence sources of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) in northern Iraq, . . . describe a group now so decimated and demoralized that even true believers admit it is unlikely to be reborn according to its old template.
That's because they've been whupped...
Instead, they say, elements of the group have begun operating in smaller cells. The "Ansar" label today, they add, is also being assumed by cheap knockoffs Islamic militants of all stripes, and used freely by the US-led coalition, regardless of ties to the original Kurdish group.
Which was made up of at least three disparate groups...
But the picture now emerging shows, too, how Washington exaggerated
[or maybe just "overestimated"]
aspects of the threat from the 600 to 800 Ansar members. Ansar was once part of a long-term Al Qaeda dream to spread Islamic rule from Afghanistan to Kurdistan and beyond. But that idea was embryonic at best, and when US forces attacked Afghanistan in October 2001, Al Qaeda support for Ansar dried up.
Timing is everything, I guess. They started arriving in Kurdistan just before 9-11-01 and Binny — actually Abu Zubaydah, who was their controller — suddenly found himself with more important concerns.
And despite the later arrival of some Afghan veterans and Arab fighters — and a new influx of donor cash — Ansar for 1 1/2 years was isolated, manipulated by both Iraq and Iran, and locked in stalemate with far superior Kurdish forces. Its "poison factory" proved primitive; nothing but substances commonly used to kill rodents were found there.
Except for a bit of Ricin. Apparently the makin's are pretty easy to transport, since Zarqawi was lugging them around for awhile...
"Don’t make Ansar that big — we make them great, and they are nothing, just terrorists," says Dana Ahmed Majid, the PUK security chief. "With the help of Al Qaeda and the support of all Islamic groups, they are trying to rebuild."
On the other hand, PUK wasn't able to throw them out of their bridgehead until the B52s showed up...
But instead of rebuilding a guerrilla force, Kurdish intelligence officials say Ansar is sending out small, freshly activated cells. And instead of just attacking secular Kurdish authorities — the root motivation of Ansar and its predecessor Islamist groups — these cells may be shifting to an anti-US mission, in tandem with Saddam Hussein loyalists.
Shifting? Do you mean that before the Iraq campaign they were on our side?
Before the Iraq campaign the Kurdish bloc of Ansar tried to expand their base in Kurdistan. Al-Tawhid, Zarqawi's mob, was more cosmopolitan and seems to have used the area as a base camp and planning center when not jetting off to Europe to get arrested for planning attacks.
"Al Qaeda has turned Iraq into a battleground against America," says Barham Salih, prime minister of the PUK area of northern Iraq, who equates Ansar with Al Qaeda. "Ansar was delivered a very big blow. They were not over. Eradication is a long-term process. Everyone is throwing everything into this battle — that’s why we must win."
An idea CSM seems to have trouble with...
While most estimates cap the number of new foreign fighters that have entered Iraq in the past six months at 1,000, CIA assessments reportedly put the number as high as 3,000. Only a small minority are believed to be tied to Al Qaeda.
’Scuse the interruption, but if, as you said six paragraphs ago, Ansar was "part of a long-term Al Qaeda dream to spread Islamic rule" and got support from Al Qaeda before the fall of ’01, wouldn’t anyone in Ansar be "tied to Al Qaeda" by definition? Just askin’.
And "only a small minority are believed to be tied to al-Qaeda" before setting off for Iraq to join al-Qaeda (and its wholly-owned subsidiaries) for the Big Battle against the infidels...
Emblematic of the mysterious history and inner workings of Ansar is the experience of holy warriors like Gharib and two others, who were made available at the Monitor’s request by the PUK. Questioned separately for more than 13 hours, the former Ansar guerrillas appeared to speak freely. Proud of their handiwork, they also stated their view that Ansar was finished as an organization.
Good. You lost, and you know you lost. That’s good. You need to remember that.
As an Arab speaker in the ethnically Kurdish group, Gharib was transferred in 2001 to Sargat, where Arab fighters were based in their "Ghurba Katiba" (or "Imported Goon Squad" "Stranger’s Unit"). "Even the Arab Afghans who came did not exceed 50 in total, and included people unfamiliar with guns who probably never fired a bullet in their lives," says Gharib. Despite the broad inexperience, among them were several jihad veterans. A few Kurds were also Afghan war veterans, and proved to be powerful trainers. Al Qaeda was held up as the model.
[There’s that "tied to Al Qaeda" thing again.]
"This was the sense of everybody, that we were linked to Al Qaeda," says Sangar Mansour, a short, wiry detainee with a youthful face and thin moustache. "[We] looked like Al Qaeda, gave orders like Al Qaeda, trained like Al Qaeda, and used their videotapes" of Afghan operations.
[If it waddles like Al Qaeda and swims like Al Qaeda and quacks like Al Qaeda, then it’s . . . .]
"Some non-Kurds had US military uniforms, that they put on when the [US] attacks started," Mr. Mansour says. He saw a worn photograph one of his friends kept under his pillow, of Ansar security chief Ayub Afghani, eating with Osama bin Laden. Arab militants had begun to trickle into northern Iraq to join the Kurds well before Ansar was officially formed in December 2001. Their presence helped bolster the isolated Kurdish militants.
Prior to that, I guess they were heading for Jund al-Islam, which folded into Ansar...
"Many people grew more committed to this fighting, because they thought: If foreigners are coming here to fight, this must be serious, this must be real," says Diyar Latif Taher, a Kurdish Islamist detainee. He says the number of foreigners never exceeded 90. "They did not say they were members of Al Qaeda, but whenever there was a successful Qaeda operation — an ambush, or hitting a US base in Afghanistan — they were celebrating," says Mr. Taher. Bin Laden was "praised."
Where does he think the money for the guns, ammunition, beans, blankets, and fresh turbans came from?
"[We] shared the same ideas [with Al Qaeda], and we should be impressed with their leaders, their tactics and their victories, and feel sorry for their losses — otherwise we would not be true believers," says Gharib. "There was this dream of declaring jihad in this part of the world, and kicking out secular authority. And this dream got larger."
Waddle, swim, quack, et cetera.
But keeping away from the manipulations of local powers was not easy. The Iranians flooded the Ansar area with extremely cheap food supplies, then stopped them abruptly, to squeeze concessions out of Ansar.
"They said they loved us, but they were just using us!"
Baghdad played a similar role, by using smugglers and middlemen to provide dirt-cheap weapons to Ansar. "Then it stopped - boom! - and you had to beg for it, and make concessions," Gharib says. "I tell you, Ansar was the biggest buyer [from Baghdad]."
But there’s no connection between Al Quaeda/Ansar and the Hussein regime! That’s what the New York Times said. They couldn’t print it if it wasn’t true, could they?
So the key to success was funding, especially after Al Qaeda support dried up in late 2001. That’s where Gharib’s video camera and ability to burn propaganda CDs came in. They showed everything from Koran lessons and road building to training and offensive operations. "These CDs were extremely important, because they were our income source — we sent them back up the cash chain to donors," Gharib says, holding up his black prayers beads to illustrate the linkages. After one successful attack, funding came "like rain...from everywhere."
Later came JDAMs like rain from everywhere, but we’re getting ahead of the story.
"It’s not governments, but people from rich countries, Kuwait, Saudi, and Qatar-rich people who are too spineless would not dare to take part, but sent support to establish Islamic rule," says Gharib. Such donors did not pay for Ansar to "have a truce" with the PUK, but instead demanded action. "There were groups claiming jihad, but just stealing money. So they ask: ’Where is your product? Where is your fighting?’"
"I’m paying you to go out and die gloriously for the Prophet! Get out there and stop some bullets!"
So training was serious, under the tutelage of a tough turncoat Kurdish Afghan veteran called Ali Wali. "It was unlike any training I had ever seen," says Mansour. "They put down ropes to cross an area, and put sacks of soil on their backs and climbed mountains while avoiding bullets. They used kung fu, and learned how to counter attack with a gun at your back."
"Everybody was kung fu fighting/Those fists were fast as lightening . . . "
"You felt [Mr. Wali] was born to train - they even depended on him in Afghanistan," says Gharib. "Besides weapons, he taught psychological warfare, and dealing with pressure during battle. He was playing with your nerves, until you were able to withstand the pressure." Later, as US-Kurdish ground forces advanced, Ansar evacuated to Iran. But Ansar’s reception was mixed. "The Iranians started to fire at us," says Taher, who speaks Farsi.
Uh, Taher, where I come from, that’s not a "mixed" reception.
They finally talked to Revolutionary Guards at the border, handed over their guns, and at 8 a.m. they were driven to the nearest Iranian village. At 10 a.m., they were hustled back. "An angry official came out and stuck an Iranian flag into the ground," Taher recalls. "This is the border with Iran — don’t cross it!" he warned. But his group found a nearby valley, and were taken to a large prison hall in a border town, where they found 100 more militants. They stayed a week, and were each interrogated in front of video cameras by Iranian agents, before being taken back to the border, given back their weapons, and told to "Go, go, go!"
"And don’t let the border gate hit you in the butt on the way out!"
Ayub Afghani was later arrested by the Iranians, Mansour says, when he was caught with six pistols, fake documents, and several foreign passports.
"It’s a birthday present for my mom. She collects this stuff."
Mansour eventually returned home, and turned himself in to the PUK.
Which says something about the hospitality of Iranian prisons.
Such has been the fate of the majority of Ansar’s original members, say these detained militants, which makes them skeptical that the group can be behind many of the current attacks in Iraq. Gharib estimates that of the 600 Ansar members, some 250 were killed, 50 "were officials who ran away," and the rest have been arrested by the PUK, have given themselves up, or are still in semi-hiding in Iran. "This virtually means that Ansar is over, by the numbers," says Gharib. "Anybody saying these [current attacks] are done by Ansar has no information. They can’t do it."
While I disagree with some of the analytical spin, this is a good, detailed bit of reporting.

The Monitor has been turning out a lot of good, detailed reporting from Iraq recently. How is it that the New York Times and the AP are getting scooped by the Christian Science Monitor?
Posted by: Mike || 10/16/2003 12:37:21 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [285 views] Top|| File under:

#1  How is it that the New York Times and the AP are getting scooped by the Christian Science Monitor?
The Christian Science Monitor reporters do their research first, THEN write the story, instead of writing the story, and then inventing the 'research' to back it up. Makes a world of difference in what's written.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/16/2003 18:04 Comments || Top||

#2  CSM's been on the Jund/Ansar al-Islam story since late 2001. I think the first story I read on them was from CSM.
Posted by: Fred || 10/16/2003 20:33 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Israel objects to advanced weapons sales to Arabs
JPost Reg Req’d
Israel needs to raise its voice against advance weapons sales by the United States to Egypt and Saudi Arabia, Yuval Steinitz, chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee said Thursday.

Steinitz said he has raised the matter with American security officials and warned that reducing the qualitative balance Israel holds over Egypt and Saudi Arabia would destabilized the region.
Why would we send JDAM technology to these asshats?
Army radio said that Israel is interested in blocking specifically the sale of JADAM (joint direct attack munitions) to Egypt. These would allow Egyptian bombers to have greater all-weather accuracy with the fire and forget guidance kits. Israel already has these weapons.

Speaking to The Jerusalem Post Thursday, Steinitz said Israel need to object to sophisticated weapons sales to Egypt and Saudi Arabia in principle.
and logic - these are not our friends - how long before Iran and Pakland have ’em?
He said that Israel had long ago conceded on the matter of platforms, watching the US supply Egypt with F-16 aircraft, Abrahams M1 tanks, and modern battleships.

"But at least when it comes to electronics and missiles let us keep the technological edge," Steinitz said. "I think the Americans need to be very careful in arming Egypt. "They had this concept that arming Egypt would serve as a counterbalance to Iraq and Iran. I think that a strong Egypt is a danger to the stability of the region."

"The Egyptians are trying to procure various weaponry, including the Longbow helicopter and other items I don’t want to go into right now," Steinitz said.

Steinitz wrote in a recent op-ed in The Jerusalem Post that the plan to sell Egypt the sophisticated Harpoon Block II anti-ship missile could be used as a sea-to-land cruise missile with a 160 kilometer range. This would put most of the strategic targets in Israel in range of the mighty Egyptian fleet.

According to published notifications to Congress of pending US arms transfer, Egypt is seeking 414 AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, 459 Hellfire missiles, 53 RGM 84-L-4 Harpoon Block II antiship missiles, 26 extended range-multiple launch rocket systems, Apache Longbow attack helicopters, AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles and electronic intelligence systems for C-130 aircraft.
get ’em from the Paleos thru the arms-smuggling tunnels you’ve allowed, assholes
While some defense officials have warned that speaking of Egypt as an enemy risks turning them into one, Steinitz declared that this was moot since Egypt was already one of the most virulent states against Israel.
call a spade...
"Egypt is a hostile country. It is full of incitement de-legitimizing Zionism and the Jewish state no less than the incitement we see in the Palestinian Authority. This should be setting off red lights for us," Steinitz said.

He dismissed criticism that such public talk was damaging to quiet efforts to slow down and dilute advance weapon sales to Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
"I don’t think that there is damage here.

"We can’t put our heads in the sand. When President Mubarak tells the EU that what the Hamas is doing is not terror then that is hostility. When they are de-legitimizing the right of Israel that is hostility. When Egyptian TV is referring to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that is hostility."

Steinitz said he was careful not to speak of Egypt as an "enemy," but more as a "threat."
"Just as the Americans speak of China as a threat," he said. "Egypt is a very hostile state and we can’t deny this. Let’s not kid ourselves, when the Egyptians hold their large exercises their simulated enemy is a "small nation to the north."

Steinitz said he believes that the moment the Egyptians evaluate, whether rightly or wrongly, that the former equilibrium has collapsed - the moment they estimate that an Egyptian-led coalition could challenge Israel without risking a defeat - the pathway will be open to a general conflagration, or, at least, to the creation of brinkmanship situations.

I like this guy Steinitz!
Posted by: Frank G || 10/16/2003 8:55:09 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [261 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Giving the Egyptians this stuff is absolute madness. My first question is: who is the threat that Egypt needs such advanced systems for? If Israel loses the edge it has, then it only has nukes. If the Mubarak regime falls, for some reason, then who takes over the equipment? We are just bribing Egypt to not be overly hostile to Israel with $2 BN in foreign aid every year. This is absolutely nuts. Especially with 1000 jihadi nutcases who promised to be good (with fingers crossed behind their backs) just let out of the jug. This is CRAZY!!!
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/16/2003 21:05 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Columnists blasts internet yellow stars
Hat tip LGF
One American history student recently wrote me that, following a link from the Web log Little Green Footballs, he noticed my "name on a list of ’known Jews.’ Does it disturb or frighten you to be bluntly characterized as a ’Zionist American Jew,’" he asked, "or do you take a degree of pride in your apparent notoriety among Palestinian activists?"
If they hate you you’re doing something right.
Clicking onto the Web log I discovered a site in high dudgeon. Over 280 people had responded to the news that "Students at University College Cork in Ireland have put together a list of well-known authors and speakers who are Jews." Calling it a "shameful database," Little Green Footballs quoted one reader who pronounced it the "Internet version of the Nazi yellow star."
An LGFer who called a spade a spade.
A few clicks later, I found the "Cork Palestine Solidarity Campaign" Web site listing 149 American Jews, from Elliot Abrams to Mortimer Zuckerman. Most names were designated "American Jew"; 23 were "anti-Zionist American Jew"; 18 of us, including, Abrams, Zuckerman, Wolf Blitzer, Arthur Hertzberg, Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz, were labeled "Zionist American Jew." A few merited their own categories, including the "Hardline Zionist Israeli American Jew" Martin Kramer, the "Moderate Zionist American Jew" Michael Lerner and the "neo-con American Jew" Martin Peretz.

I first thought of Richard Nixon’s "enemies list" rather than a virtual "yellow star." I remembered Lesley Stahl reporting in her memoir about CBS News that correspondent Daniel Schorr "loved" being on Nixon’s list — it "was a badge of honor." Yet along with my perverse pride came a slight tremor of dread. "Is this hate list a hit list?", I wondered. If Palestinians gain glory from targeting pizzerias and murdering infants, what would stop them from targeting an academic, however obscure I might be?

The more I perused the list, the more confused I became. The list had dead Jews and live Jews, including the banker Felix Warburg and the screenwriter Ben Hecht. I realized this was a vast database listing articles related to "Palestinian Solidarity," with pungent commentary on pro-Zionist pieces. There were also lists of Palestinians, Europeans, Israeli Jews — some deemed Zionist, others not — categorized by subject as well as by nationality and political orientation. All this was an effort to fight the media bias these activists perceived — in favor of Israel.
You mean there’s a pro-Israel media bias? I must not do much reading then!
As an educator, I wanted to pronounce the site benign. "Our side" has Jewish Agency databases detailing the history of Zionism, and Daniel Pipes’s "Campus Watch" database monitoring classroom bias. How can I begrudge Palestinian activists their research project?

Yet that reaction, too, was not satisfying. There was something about the tone and wording, the use of "Zionist" as a pejorative, that was menacing. Being outed on this Web site as a "Zionist American Jew" lacked the warmth and lyricism of my proudly proclaiming "I am a Zionist." Part of it had to do with the list’s ugly reductionism — boiling people down to their national origins and then branding them "kosher" or "unkosher," as it were. There was something a bit too European about the need to identify reporters such as CBS’s Bob Simon and NPR’s Terry Gross as "American Jew," Wolf Blitzer as "Zionist American Jew" when the relevance was unclear.

Moreover, after Daniel Pearl’s captors beheaded him because they deemed him a "ZAJ" rather than an "AJ" or simply an American, such labels promulgated in Europe by Palestinian supporters spring from poisoned sources. In an immoral universe where being a Zionist is a capital crime, being identified as such becomes a death threat.

The Web site rests on a seedbed of hate, broadcasting hostility to the Jewish state, hijacking symbols to make Jaffa Oranges manifestations of "apartheid" policies to be boycotted, rather than fruits of a people’s renewal. In the 1970s, pro-Palestinian European hijackers selected Jews from non-Jews at Entebbe. Today, Palestinians and their European supporters often target Jews indiscriminately, with aggressive rhetoric feeding vicious violence. Addicted to their status as victims, allergic to taking responsibility for their actions’ implications, too many pro-Palestinians will ignore the fact that such lists fester in a context of glorified thuggery.

The cult of the suicide bomber, the way the virus of violence infects support for the Palestinian cause, can make a supposedly academic Web site seem menacing, not only to "paranoid" Jews, but to the hundreds of outraged non-Jews on the Little Green Footballs Web log, and to my concerned student. When the Web site’s section of "Palestinian Protest Chants" exhorts people: "We don’t care what you say, Intifada all the way!" and when that Intifada has murdered 900 innocents, doubting their intentions makes sense.

My student asked me if I was scared or proud. I am both — as well as sad and angry. I resent the bloody intifada the Palestinians have unleashed against Israelis, and I resent the worldwide intellectual and ideological intifada fostering that violence which is scarring my home turf, the university. I hate the polarizing effect on discourse about the Middle East, the emotion that squelches candid analysis on both sides. And I despise the whiff of menace hovering about the intellectual intifada-ists, given the constant rhetorical attacks against "Americans and Jews" and the global reach terrorists and antisemites have demonstrated.

So, I will wear my listing as a ZAJ with pride. And I will urge leaders who are merely listed as "American Jews" to support Israel more passionately to get bumped up into my more exclusive category. But when I next move, I am sorry to say, my home phone number will be unlisted.
Posted by: Atrus || 10/16/2003 3:59:07 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [332 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "You know the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the jews wear . . . "

http://www.bullshitjob.com/officespace/flair.wav

Office Space
Posted by: spiffo || 10/16/2003 16:21 Comments || Top||

#2  well i bet Michael Lerner is happy at any rate. I would have called him "lukewarm, fuzzy minded, barely zionist american jew"
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 17:19 Comments || Top||

#3  and i bet jerome segal (close to Lerner) Eric Yoffie (i think they got the spelling wrong, head of the Reform Central Conference of American Rabbis) and Michael Walzer (very sensible social democrat intellectual and old time labor zionist, close with Israeli labor party big wigs) would be rather shocked that theyre NOT considered Zionists, at least moderate ones - how'd they leave the whole category to a schlemiel like Lerner? I protest.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 17:26 Comments || Top||

#4  and i bet jerome segal (close to Lerner) Eric Yoffie (i think they got the spelling wrong, head of the Reform Central Conference of American Rabbis) and Michael Walzer (very sensible social democrat intellectual and old time labor zionist, close with Israeli labor party big wigs) would be rather shocked that theyre NOT considered Zionists, at least moderate ones - how'd they leave the whole category to a schlemiel like Lerner? I protest.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 17:30 Comments || Top||

#5  and they call dore gold a hardliner, but not Jabotinsky?

Even more hilarious, they have a category for German American Jews. What, have they been reading "Our crowd"? Are they trying to make sure only the "right people" are invited to their social club? as an eastern european American Jew, I must protest this outdated snobbery. The American Jewish community is almost past it thank G-d - i dont want it revived in the antisemite community.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 17:33 Comments || Top||

#6  I demand that they label me Jewish, as well! The fact that I'm not is immaterial - I want to be like the Danes in WWII when the Nazis said Jews had to wear yellow stars and everybody in Denmark - starting with the King - wore one.

So come on, Cork students - label me a Jew as well. My grandmother was part Scottish, so I'll qualify as a twofer for you.

Losers.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 10/16/2003 18:18 Comments || Top||

#7  I read somewhere (possibly via this website) how Irish Nationalists (IRA) had adopted the PLO Cause as their own while the Irish Loyalists (Protestants/UDA/UVF) had coopted the besieged Israelis.

In my case, as an American of Irish Catholic descent, I'll wear the Star! Terrorism Delenda Est!
Posted by: JDB || 10/16/2003 21:24 Comments || Top||

#8  I would be an unlikely Jew, but will wear that label proudly, too. In fact, I believe that Israel has right to exist as a homeland for Jews, a Zionist, therefore, I am.
Posted by: LGJ || 10/16/2003 21:34 Comments || Top||


Korea
Report: N. Korea to Display Nuclear Arms
Kim Jong Il: Father of the Atom. Now it gets interesting.
North Korea said Thursday it would "physically display its nuclear deterrent force," South Korea’s Yonhap news agency reported. The remark by an unnamed spokesman of North Korea’s Foreign Ministry could be an indication that the communist regime intends to test a nuclear bomb.
...and the clock is ticking.
"When the time comes, the DPRK will take steps to physically display its nuclear deterrent force," the North Korean spokesman told Pyongyang’s state-run news agency KCNA, which was monitored by the South Korean agency.
When the time comes...
DPRK stands for North Korea’s official name, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
I thought it was Douchebag Pricks Residing in Korea?
For weeks, North Korea has said that it was building up its "nuclear deterrent force," a term the isolated, communist nation uses to refer to its nuclear weapons program. U.S. intelligence officials believe that North Korea already has one or two nuclear bombs and may be building more. On Thursday, KCNA quoted the North Korean spokesman as saying his country has "no other option but to continue to take steps to keep and increase its nuclear deterrent force as a self-defense measure" because of what it calls U.S. plans to invade. North Korea also accused the United States of stalling talks aimed at ending the year-old nuclear standoff.
Representatives from the United States, the two Koreas, China, Japan and Russia met in Beijing in August to discuss ways to end the crisis. The meeting ended without agreement on when to hold a next round talks, because of strident differences between Pyongyang and Washington. North Korea demands that the United States sign a nonaggression treaty, provide economic aid and open diplomatic ties before it can dismantle its nuclear facilities.
Here’s one: Dismantle it and we won’t have to dismantle it for you. Much less painful to you grass eating, White Slag addicted, baby eating Juche heads.
Washington demands that North Korea first abandon its nuclear weapons program before any improvement in ties.
We hear that the Norks lie. Just a rumor.
The nuclear dispute flared last October when U.S. officials said North Korea admitted running a secret nuclear weapons program in violation of international agreements.
Write your will yet, Kimmie?
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 3:42:47 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [262 views] Top|| File under:

#1  How will this affect the Kobe coverage?
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 10/16/2003 15:54 Comments || Top||

#2  someone should tell him

you can't hug your children with nuclear arms
Posted by: eyeyeye || 10/16/2003 16:03 Comments || Top||

#3  "Darn it, be careful with that thing, jostle it again like that and you might make it go--"

Pyongyang's Dear Leader Square disappeared in a flash of light.

Forty thousand feet up, and ten miles downrange, the pilot of the B-2 Spirit smiled grimly at the sight of the mushroom cloud and turned his aircraft toward home.
Posted by: Mike || 10/16/2003 16:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Bull Juche:

The Norks may have a couple of fission devices, but they'll never test one.... the Chineese would be all over their tiny little Mountain Home asses in a nanocycle.

BTW I got a Gator Ray in the garage...... Who wants to save Ron Zook? I am open to offers.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 20:00 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon
Assad slams ’’fanatics’’ in Bush administration
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad on Thursday described members of President George W. Bush’s administration as "fanatics" and warmongers. Assad told the 10th Islamic Summit Conference in Malaysia that the September 2001 attacks on the United States "provided the opportunity and pretext for a group of fanatics and ill-intentioned people to attack human values and principles."
When the values and principles involve slaughtering a few thousand civilians, yes indeedy...
"Those fanatics revealed their brutal vision of human society and started to market the principle of force instead of dialogue, oppression instead of justices and racism instead of tolerance," the Syrian leader said. "They even began to create an ugly illusionary enemy which they called ’Islam’, and made it appear as if it is Islam while Islam is completely innocent of it."
"Can you hand me my lips? I need to finish my speech"
"They added to our dictionaries a new term of which we had never heard throughout history and that is ‘Islamic Terrorism’ with the aim was to link terrorism to Islam," al Assad conveyed.
"Please, again? Thanks, I’ve got to get these fixed"
Regarding the Palestinian situation, he said that Israel is a "terrorist state", which was established on terrorism. Therefore, he said, the Palestinian resistance is a natural right and legitimate act as a form of self-defence.
Methinks Baby Assad is a tad nervous.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 3:30:42 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [265 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Assad's better then Comedy Central......"Those fanatics revealed their brutal vision of human society and started to market the principle of force instead of dialogue, oppression instead of justices and racism instead of tolerance,"

-Perfect analogy about Islamic fundamentalism directed at us.

he said that Israel is a "terrorist state",

News Flash from Al-Jezeera.....19 Israeli suicide bombers armed with boxcutters hi-jack Palestinian livestock - destroy temple mount.......pictures at 11.
Posted by: Jarhead || 10/16/2003 16:12 Comments || Top||

#2  For some reason, I feel like linking to that piece from a couple of weeks ago - the one where a B2 stealth bomber dropped 80 JDAMs in 22 seconds and hit 80 targets...

Where's that map of terrorist offices in Damascus again?
Posted by: mojo || 10/16/2003 16:59 Comments || Top||

#3  For some reason, I feel like linking to that piece from a couple of weeks ago - the one where a B2 stealth bomber dropped 80 JDAMs in 22 seconds and hit 80 targets...

The hell with a link - the Bekaa Valley would be a good location for a live demonstration....
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 18:04 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Vox Populi
From MEMRI:
A SURVEY CONDUCTED BY THE PALESTINIAN CENTER FOR POLICY AND SURVEY RESEARCH BETWEEN OCTOBER 7 AND 14 FOUND THAT OUT OF 1318 RESPONDENTS, 75 PERCENT SUPPORTED THE OCTOBER 4 SUICIDE BOMBING OF A HAIFA RESTAURANT. (AL-HAYAT AL-JADIDA, PA, 10/16/03)
There was a similar survey a week or so ago by the same outfit that said 55% of Paleos supported suicide attacks.
Posted by: Mercutio || 10/16/2003 3:28:37 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [265 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Vox Dei: The Fire Next Time.
Posted by: mojo || 10/16/2003 15:32 Comments || Top||

#2  Well, that is a good correlation between the singing, dancing, passing out of sweets, and ululating done by the Paleos after 9-11. We will keep those statistics in mind when we appropriate funds and allocate assets.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/16/2003 16:20 Comments || Top||

#3  Alaska Paul, we should keep those statistics in mind but we never really do.

I do not believe the Palestinians want to live in peace next to a Jewish state. That leaves only a handful of options (a) Do the peaceful solution and build a wall and watch the world hurl insults at you for trying to stay alive (b) Push the Pals into the neighboring Arab states one region at a time as punishment for the barbaric attacks and watch the moral high ground slip away more and more (c) Forget the moral high ground and push the Pals into the neighboring Arab states in one nasty swoop and hope the world forgives in a decade.

(a) is the chosen course but (c) will lead to a more lasting peace.
Posted by: Yank || 10/16/2003 16:41 Comments || Top||

#4  Why can't we just get all the would-be suicide bombers together in one place at one time and let them do their thing. Everyone would be happy ... they get to go in a flurry of pyrotechniques and the erst of us can just berathe easier. Heck, we could even promise them a few after-world virgins to make the party a little more exciting.
Posted by: Murrel || 10/16/2003 16:49 Comments || Top||

#5  Yank, you forgot option 4: Destroy the illegitimate governments in Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia, force the paleonobodies into those states (along with Egypt, but it's a long, hot walk across that desert - ask Moses!), tell the people you force out they can either integrate with the locals, or Israel will come back again, and again, and again, and whack 'em until they do.

The 'world' won't like it, but the world isn't being attacked every three or four days by these nutcases. Israel has held itself in check too long, and the United States has stupidly restrained them even more. Time to take the binders off and let Israel do what it must.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/16/2003 18:09 Comments || Top||

#6  Damn... I can't come up with anything funny, snarkey or insightful.

Quote Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Fuck 'em Unquote
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 18:16 Comments || Top||

#7  The Paleos are just being used as a tool for Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia to attrit Israel and drive the Israelis out. Those countries have no love for the Paleos. They do not want them. Old Patriot has a good idea in that those govts around Israel have to change. This is one tall order. That is why what we do and what we get for results in Iraq will exert a tremendous influence for change---or for maintaining the status quo in the Middle East. Unless positive change is made, someone WILL get a nuke, and someone will be looney enough to use it and Armageddon St. will become Desolation Row. And there will be alot of fallout, real and metaphoric.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/16/2003 18:53 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Last of Portland 7 Fold
The final two defendants in an alleged Portland terrorist cell who are in custody pleaded guilty Thursday and agreed to serve 18 years in federal prison.
Bwahahahaha!!
Patrice Ford and Jeffrey Battle were among seven Portland-area residents charged with plotting to wage war against U.S. troops in Afghanistan. Four others pleaded guilty earlier. One remains at large.
The suspected leader, of course.
Battle and Ford pleaded guilty to conspiracy to levy war against the United States, which carried a maximum sentence of 20 years and a $250,000 fine. They had initially also been charged with money laundering, supporting terrorism and other offenses. Flanked by their attorneys, Ford and Battle stood in the courtroom. Answering questions by U.S. District Judge Robert D. Jones, Ford said "I plead guilty." Battle then did the same. The pleas came during a hearing when defense attorneys had intended to challenge evidence gathered under the USA Patriot Act. Because of the pleas, those challenges will not be heard during this case.
They’ll save it for the next case.
A seventh suspect, Jordanian native Habis Abdu al Saoub, who is believed to be the group’s leader, remains at large.
Skipped the country when things got hot.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 2:57:30 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [329 views] Top|| File under:

#1  There's a hellfire missile waiting for al Saoub somewhere.
Posted by: someone || 10/16/2003 16:41 Comments || Top||

#2  Notice which law proved effective in nailing these dirtbags...
Posted by: R. McLeod || 10/16/2003 21:27 Comments || Top||

#3  I think I know where Saoub is hiding. Doesn't he have a sitcom called Monk.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 22:05 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Israel dismisses arrests in Gaza bombing as imaginary
EFL:
Israeli security sources Thursday dismissed arrests made by Palestinian police in connection with the deadly roadside bombing of a United States diplomatic convoy in Gaza the day before. Palestinian security officials said earlier that police entered the Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip overnight, and arrested at five members of the militant Popular Resistance Committees in connection with the bombing, in which three Americans were killed. But Israel rejected the claim, maintaining that the arrests were an imaginary measure designed to placate the U.S., and that there was no evidence to link the three to the attack.
Yup, these would be the "usual suspects".
The Popular Resistance Committees consists largely of trusted former Palestinian security officials and deepcover disgruntled members of PA Chairman Yasser Arafat’s Fatah movement, the security officials said. The group denied involvement in the attack, but confirmed the arrests of its members, one of whom was identified as Ahmed Saker, 25. "We made clear to the Palestinian Authority we had nothing to do with the bombing. We were stunned by the unjustified arrests," a leader of the movement said.
"Lies, all lies!"
"Yesterday, a few hours after the bombing... Palestinian security forces detained three people as part of the coverup investigation conducted by the Palestinian Authority into the incident," a security official told Reuters in Gaza. Palestinian witnesses said that when Palestinian police came to Block 8 of Jabalya to make arrests, a gun fight erupted. Seven members of the PA security forces were injured.
Good, hope they are painful lingering injuries.
It was established Wednesday that American personnel who coordinate the movements of U.S. officials in the territories communicate travel plans in advance to PA security officials, sending the detailed information by fax or telephone. Such reports spell out the names of persons who are taking part in work trips in the territories, the times when U.S. vehicles are to be moving through various areas, and the routes to be taken by the cars.
Boy, that makes it easy for them, doesn’t it?
In view of this practice of relaying advance information, some analysts speculated Wednesday that the terrorists who perpetrated the attack had advance knowledge of the U.S. convoy’s intention to cross into the village of Beit Hanoun. At least a portion of the information attained by the terrorists, the analysts hypothesized, came from official PA sources.
Handed them the target data on a silver platter.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 11:33:02 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [282 views] Top|| File under:

#1  so is it true that Arafat has hired ex-LAPD forensics officers as consultants to work with the bombing evidence? ;)
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 11:37 Comments || Top||

#2  "We made clear to the Palestinian Authority we had nothing to do with the bombing. We were stunned by the unjustified arrests," a leader of the movement said.

What do these guys have to worry about anyway? It's not like they're going to be tortured or something; after all, the crime in question wasn't against Palestinians, so....
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 11:47 Comments || Top||

#3  So this PRC is supposed to be made up of "disaffected members of Al Fatah & the security forces". Sounds like a catspaw to me.

"OK, Ali, Mahmood, you get all pissed off and quit. Your bombs will be at the same old place and wait for orders."

YA: "There was an attack? Oh dear it must be those nasty PRC people. Here, we'll offer a few up as martyrs, I mean, perps. Sorry about that, it'll never happen again.
Posted by: Mercutio || 10/16/2003 14:43 Comments || Top||

#4  As far as who's ultimately responsible for ordering attack my odds are:
1 out of 10 Arafat responsible,1 of 20 Saddam,1 of 20 one of those wacky Paleo offshoots,3 of 10
Iran,and 5 of 10 Syria.
Posted by: Stephen || 10/16/2003 16:50 Comments || Top||


Korea
North Korea Seeks U.S. Help Over Nukes
EFL
Used the AP title which while enticing, seems only vaguely backed up by the story.
North Korea expressed concerns that inter-Korean relations would be hurt if South Korean President Roh Moo hyun steps down should he fare poorly in a referendum that he wants to hold in December to gauge public trust in his rule. "If President Roh Moo-hyun loses the vote, wouldn’t there be big changes in inter-Korean relations, depending on who becomes the next president?" an unidentified North Korean official was quoted as saying in South Korean media pool reports. The comments came as the two countries began three days of Cabinet-level talks in the North’s capital of Pyongyang. Foreign journalists were barred from the event. Roh, whose administration has lost popularity in the wake of corruption scandals involving his aides, proposed the referendum on Monday. The legality of such a proposal remains in doubt.
The title seems to imply that the US should take steps to keep Roh in power for the sake of stability. The only step I can think of from the US government that would enhance Roh’s image throughout Korea would be in Rumsfeld and Bolton insulted Roh- maybe insult his intelligence or imply that he is unhinged mentally. Koreans would then rush to the ballot box to support ROh. At that rate he might also be electable to political office in Paris.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 11:19:22 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [271 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I was actully looking for a different article to post. It is N. Korea Diplomacy May Hinge on Summit.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 11:32 Comments || Top||

#2  Anyone else getting sick and tired of doing things for the sake of "stability?"
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/16/2003 13:25 Comments || Top||

#3  50 years of "stability" in Korea has been just a truce, not a true peace. It has been the absence of hot war. Korea needs a true peace, not an appeasement peace.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/16/2003 14:08 Comments || Top||

#4  Let's not forget the fact that in the NK view, SK is strictly a US puppet, so they assume that we can dictate who is Prez. This may be why NK is so adamant that the US be involved in this little nuke gambit of theirs - they're paranoid and we're the boogeyman. Frankly, I could give a damn about the Korean penninsula. Let China worry about their nuclear nutcake neighbors. I'll bet China's solution to the problem would be a lot more "final" than ours. China just needs to discover that it's THEIR problem, not ours.

And and for those of you who think I've forgotten that NK has missles that can reach LA, I live a lot closer to NK than that.
Posted by: Mercutio || 10/16/2003 14:54 Comments || Top||

#5  You call that a Device?

B61 Where are you?
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 20:02 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Slick Willy warned Bush of Osama...
Tip to Drudge:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Former President Bill Clinton says he warned President George W. Bush before he left office in 2001 that Osama bin Laden was the biggest security threat the United States faced.
I wonder when this meeting took place because of the many, MANY recounts in Florida.
Speaking at a luncheon sponsored by the History Channel on Wednesday, Clinton said he discussed security issues with Bush in his "exit interview," a formal and often candid meeting between a sitting president and the president-elect. "In his campaign, Bush had said he thought the biggest security issue was Iraq and a national missile defence," Clinton said. "I told him that in my opinion, the biggest security problem was Osama bin Laden."
Since he let him go on at least one occasion.
Time magazine reported last year that a plan for the United States to launch attacks against the al-Qaeda network languished for eight months because of the change in presidents and was approved only a week before the September 11 attacks.
Yup, Bill was going to get right on that and Al would have followed through if elected.
But the White House disputed parts of that story, which was published by the magazine in August 2002. "The Clinton administration did not present an aggressive new plan to topple al-Qaeda during the transition," a White House spokesman, Sean McCormack, said at the time.
So who is telling the truth here?
The White House was clearly irritated by the report, which appeared to suggest that the Bush administration might not have done all it could to prevent the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon.
If only Clinton could have remained in office another term!
At Wednesday’s luncheon, Clinton said his inability to convince Bush of the danger from al Qaeda was "one of the two or three of the biggest disappointments that I had."
Another being the lack of horny 19-year-old interns when he left office.
Clinton said that after bin Laden, the next security priority would have been the absence of a Middle East peace agreement, followed by the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
And he would have worked on those, except he was busy with ‘staff’ issues.
"I would have started with India and Pakistan, then North Korea, and then Iraq after that," he said. "I thought Iraq was a lower order problem than al Qaeda."
Didn’t that troll go to North Korea and sign a ‘peace’ agreement with Kimmy? I think they danced too!
Clinton’s vice president Al Gore, who ran against Bush in the 2000 election, did not make the threat from al Qaeda a major focus of the presidential campaign, which both candidates kept focused mainly on domestic topics.
Because all the previous statements are a desperate attempt to repair the image of his Presidency.

Is it me but the more you learn about the Clinton administration you feel that they did very little to safeguard our nation? The exception being that brave (but brutal) storming of that religious group in Waco. Thank god we were saved from a group of people who believed in god and wanted to live in a community together. This President (and Dimmy) makes me ill every time I hear him. If he was aware of these problems, why didn’t he solve them while he WAS in office? Can we send them to some deserted island where Dimmy can build houses and Billy can molest interns?
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/16/2003 10:56:45 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [350 views] Top|| File under:

#1  they could both be telling the truth. Clinton could well have stated the Osama was the primary threat (especially in response to GOP sponsored Ballistic missile defense) and yet failed to give any specific plan for action.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 11:02 Comments || Top||

#2  'Scuse me, but I thought Clinton's staff was too busy with the important work of pulling the "W" keys off all the keyboards to brief Bush's transition team on silly stuff like national security....
Posted by: seafarious || 10/16/2003 11:03 Comments || Top||

#3  Can't wait for his book. Tenative title: "Hey, Everybody! Look At ME!"
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 11:06 Comments || Top||

#4  The U.S. government has blamed bin Laden’s Al Qaeda network for the September 11 attacks.

Disgusting! Reuters doesn't know that al-Qaeda has openly admitted they were behind the attacks?

Thank god we were saved from a group of people who believed in god and wanted to live in a community together.

Don't forget the incest and child rape that the well armed lunatic was involved in. Do you really think that all the members of that cult felt free to leave at any time, even before Reno (who I think is a total idiot buffoon) showed up knocking on their door? Think about it. Your Koresh's 14th wife, and he has just claimed your daughter as his 16th wife. You take a good look at the stockpile of weapons and fellow brainwashed cult members, and tell me you feel free to challenge Dave's authority in the cult, by leaving and taking his new bride with you.
Posted by: Dr. Jal Hampson || 10/16/2003 11:20 Comments || Top||

#5  No doubt the cult should have been broken up. But burning the lot of them to the ground was a bit drastic.
Posted by: Fred || 10/16/2003 11:34 Comments || Top||

#6  Dr. Jal Hampson, I have never seen/heard any proof that there was child rape going on in the compound. Comrade Reno nor any other law enforcement agency has shown any proof to these claims. If I am wrong, please direct me to the site where I can learn the truth. They only thing I heard Reno say was “I was told that there was child abuse going on in the compound.” She repeated this recently on the anniversary of the Waco standoff, no proof just accusations. If this claim was proven then I maybe I forgive her a little for this debacle.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/16/2003 12:13 Comments || Top||

#7  Two points. (i) I remember that Clinton and Bush had a long conversation in the White House and that they got along pretty well, far better than Clinton got along with Gore. (ii) I can hardly blame Bush for not taking Clinton's word about a threat seriously when the guy had 8 years to do something and chose not to.
Posted by: Yank || 10/16/2003 12:40 Comments || Top||

#8  I thought Elian was number two on the threat list.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 12:48 Comments || Top||

#9  The whole Waco mess has only one thing to do with the War on Terror - to show us that the US Government, at least once in its existence, was capable of equally stupid and degrading activity. I've seen the FLIR video, I've studied it. The words of the Clinton Administration and the film I saw have little in common except the location. I'll back my 26 years' experience in looking at reconnaissance imagery for the Air Force with anybody else's experience, if necessary.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/16/2003 12:55 Comments || Top||

#10  The timing of Clinton's remarks may have something to do with Rich Lowry's new book Legacy: Paying the Price for the Clinton Years which was just released. The book blames Clinton for failing to take effective action against Osama bin Laden, etc.
Link to book
Posted by: Biff Wellington || 10/16/2003 14:59 Comments || Top||

#11  Imagining this conversation in the Oval Office:

"George, I was saving the best for last -- but I never got a chance to get around to them. Could you take care of Osama bin Ladin and al Queda for me?"

"Sure, Bill... be glad to."

/boggling
Posted by: Anonymous Coward || 10/16/2003 15:19 Comments || Top||

#12  I remember a photo I saw on C-SPAN of Bill, Hillary and one other member of the administration taken in the White house. It was each sitting on a couch, in line, doing the 'Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil' pose. Big toothy smiles and all. Kicking the can down the road.
Posted by: Lucky || 10/16/2003 16:23 Comments || Top||

#13  Two comments about the Waco mess. (i) David K. left the compound every Sunday (I think it was Sunday) to go to town. If he was a real threat he could have been grabbed then without much fuss. (ii) Wesley Clark was in command of the troops that involved in the Waco action. Not direct command but a step or so up the chain. I expect this to come out if he gets the Democrat nod.
Posted by: Yank || 10/16/2003 16:35 Comments || Top||

#14  George Bush became President on Jan.20,2001.A complete plan that was developed 8 months before Sept.11,would have been ready about first week of January.That would have given Clinton 2 weeks to carry it out.Weeks leading up to completion of plan would have been plenty of time to prep nation for attack and get military assets into place.None of that happened.The Clinton administation never leaked/warned/hinted that infantry action was imminent(or needed).If there was a "plan"(and not merely some options the Pentagon gave Clinton)it probably followed past Clinton military actions and consisted of night-
time cruise missile attacks on training camps.
Little wonder Bush people ignored the "plan".

As for Clinton and nuclear proliferation,for 45 years only 5 nations tested nukes and 2 were thought capable of building them.(US,Russia,France
Great Britain and China.Israel and South Africa.)
Under Clinton's watch Pakistan and India tested,N.
Korea claimed and Japan started wanting them.It used to be assumed the US would prevent countries from getting nukes.Clinton made getting(or claim-
ing you have)nukes a sure-fire way to get US aid.
Posted by: Stephen || 10/16/2003 17:37 Comments || Top||

#15  Re: Janet Reno and accusations of child molestation.

Reno made her name as a Florida prosecutor in the 1980's by prosecuting a Florida "mom & pop" daycare center where she coerced the young wife into supporting outrageous accusations against the husband of "Satanic Ritual Abuse". The man was convicted and is still in prison despite there being not a shred of physical evidence.

Jeb Bush should pardon the guy and Janet Reno should roast in hell with her back broken. She is an lying opportunistic witch. When my Lib friends say Ashcroft is bad and there is a witchhunt mentality behind the Patriot Act, I point them to Reno and her witchhunt against witches! Despicable.
Posted by: JDB || 10/16/2003 21:39 Comments || Top||

#16  OK YANK you got your talking points from Faux News--now we all know Wesley Clark was responsible for Waco--stretch the truth further--then put your lips back on
Posted by: RonnieRaygun || 10/16/2003 23:08 Comments || Top||

#17  Give one free grope to Mr. Clinton's sex history.
Posted by: NO MOLESTER || 12/21/2003 11:45 Comments || Top||


Secrets Found on Computer, FBI Says
Edited for new stuff:
Authorities have found classified material on a personal computer that once belonged to a civilian interpreter at the U.S. Navy prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, an FBI agent said in federal court Wednesday. Testifying in a detention and probable cause hearing for Ahmed F. Mehalba, Special Agent John Van Kleef of Boston’s Joint Terrorism Task Force said an analysis of the computer’s hard drive revealed at least five documents labeled "secret," in a directory of files that included Mehalba’s personal résumé.
They were tipped off when under "Seeking Position As" on his resume, he listed "Spy".
A naturalized U.S. citizen who was working at the detention facility for alleged al Qaeda and Taliban fighters, Mehalba was charged Sept. 30 with making false statements to federal officials after he denied during an airport customs check that he was carrying classified documents. He was arrested Sept. 29 at Boston’s Logan International Airport after he allegedly told Homeland Security and FBI agents that the more than 130 computer discs he was carrying contained personal MP3s and photographs, which had been recorded using a computer he had since sold to a friend. Mehalba had arrived in Boston after visiting his controller relatives in Egypt. Documents marked "secret" were subsequently found on at least one of those discs. The computer containing additional sensitive material was recovered recently by the FBI, Van Kleef said. He did not describe the contents of any of the classified files.
"I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you"
Mehalba was in possession of a "huge amount of classified information," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Ricciuti, who is prosecuting the case. "His statements [to federal agents] were false." Mehalba, who did not testify Wednesday, said at the time of his arrest that he "had no idea" how the suspect documents ended up in his possession, according to Van Kleef. A more thorough check of Mehalba’s baggage turned up the computer disc that contained at least 368 files marked "Secret" or "Secret/Noforn," meaning that they were not to be disclosed to foreign nationals.
One file could be a honest mistake, 2 or 3 could just be sloppy work, 368 means go directly to jail.
Van Kleef testified that Mehalba, an employee of government contractor Titan Corp., had been granted "interim secret clearance," a designation that granted him access to information that could do "serious damage to national security" if disclosed.
"Interim secret clearance", they were in such a hurry to get interpreters they gave him the job after a quick check, full investigation to be completed at a later date.
Mehalba, who had served in the U.S. Army, had been briefed extensively on procedures related to the handling of classified material, according to court documents.
His U.S. Army service is why he got the interim clearance, I’ll wager.
He was aware that he was not authorized to download such information or take it off the base or outside the country, prosecutors contended.
Yup, they beat it into your head. Been there.
After the hearing, Mehalba’s court-appointed attorney, Michael Andrews, offered no explanation for how the suspect documents ended up in his client’s possession, saying only that "when he was asked the question, ’Do you have classified documents on you?’ and he said, ’No,’ he believed he was answering truthfully."
"Oh, I thought you meant did I have any on my person. You didn’t ask if I had any files anywhere. It was a trick question, I was framed!"
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 10:53:52 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [264 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "I slipped in the shower and the files fell into my hard drive. Damndest thing I ever saw."
Posted by: seafarious || 10/16/2003 10:58 Comments || Top||

#2  "I slipped in the shower and the files fell into my hard drive. Damndest thing I ever saw."

"A virus put them there!!!!"
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 11:37 Comments || Top||

#3  Just goes to show that you should answer the lady at the counter trufully when they ask if your bags have remained in your posession. This guy will go to jail mumbling, " never should have used the sky cap..."
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 12:52 Comments || Top||


Africa: Southern
Radical Islam’s Move on Africa
EFL:
Many students from Pakistan’s madrassas, or radical Islamist schools, are leaving to avoid arrest in a government crackdown on Islamic extremism. Some are going to Saudi Arabia, but hundreds are heading to more surprising shores — to Africa. Last month Mohammad Jamil, a spokesman for the Federation of Madrassas, said, "About 500 have already moved to South Africa. . . . Others are planning to pack their bags."
Had the same report, without as much detail, a month ago, from an AP story in Wash. Times. Guess the Post decided to run with it...
Islamic extremists in Somalia, Kenya and Tanzania have turned to terrorism, and non-Islamic dictators, such as deposed Liberian strongman Charles Taylor, have developed economic links with al Qaeda. But more alarming is the spread of rigid forms of Islam, which are historically rare south of the Sahara and which are creating division, chaos and violence in both East and West Africa.
As if they don’t have enough of these already.
It's the happy hunting ground of Islam, chock full of tribal societies, some of which consider ignorance and brutality to be virtues...
Islamists in Kenya are pushing to expand Islamic law, or sharia, to include sentences of amputation in certain crimes, as well as stoning in cases of adultery, practices already in place in Nigeria. The chairman of Kenya’s Council of Imams and Preachers, Ali Shee, has warned that Muslims in the coastal and northeastern provinces will break away if sharia is not expanded.
That's a usual pattern. Once they're ensconced, they need their own state if they can't have all of yours...
Tanzania is experiencing a similar push for Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is funding new mosques there, and fundamentalists have bombed bars and beaten women they thought inadequately covered. Mohammed Madi, a fundamentalist activist, told Time magazine last month, "We get our funds from Yemen and Saudi Arabia. . . . Officially the money is used to buy medicine, but in reality the money is given to us to support our work and buy guns."
Tap, tap, nope, suprise meter doesn’t even twitch.
Mine quivered, but only at the honesty of the admission...

Note, also, that he says they're getting their dough from both Soddy Arabia and Yemen. Yemen's a poor country, where the gummint's trying to bring the Bad Guys under control, apparently sincerely. Perhaps they should have a closer look at where that money pipleline is — whether it's a religious charity or whether it's one of their import-export companies, perhaps one involving members of the bin Laden or an allied family...
Before President Bush’s visit this year to usually quiet Malawi, government security forces, assisted by Americans, arrested five suspected Muslim militants (two Turks, one Saudi, one Kenyan and a Sudanese) and flew them out of the country. In response, Muslim mobs rioted in Mangoci, burned six churches and attacked local priests. In Zambia this summer, police raided an Islamic school and found 280 students confined in cages, where they were forced to study military tactics and Arabic.
We heard about this, they were mostly children.
Similar patterns are evident in West Africa. The civil war in Ivory Coast has complex roots, but like other conflicts spanning religious divides, such as in Serbia or Chechnya, it has taken on a fanatic coloration. Muslim rebels have been sporting T-shirts adorned with Osama bin Laden’s face superimposed over a map of the country. Extreme Islamic law continues to spread and provoke violence in Nigeria, a country bin Laden has singled out as "ready for liberation." Meanwhile, Senegal, Gambia, Niger, Mauritania, Chad and even historically democratic Mali are also experiencing Islamist unrest, with riots and, in some cases, coup attempts. This Islamization is being pushed by Sudan and Saudi Arabia, which are trying to replace local variants with their own restrictive systems.
As they say, follow the money.
But as this newspaper has reported, Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi is also a major player. While he has provided financial support to thugs of Christian background, such as Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe and Charles Taylor, his goal, announced before 15,000 people in Benin in 2000, is to "make Islam triumphant in Africa."
He is an African, after all. He says so all the time.
The Bush administration is sending Special Forces personnel and upgrading anti-terrorism work in Ethiopia, Djibouti, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Mali, Niger, Chad and Mauritania. But it is also thawing relations with Gaddafi, complimenting Sudan for "good cooperation" on terrorism and treating Saudi Arabia as an ally.
Well, I don’t think our position on Gaddafi has changed that much, and I’ll bet with Saudi that there’s a lot going on behind the scenes.
I think that at this point our relations with Muammar could actually become more friendly — he's said publicly he's gone out of the terrorism business (unless he can plausibly deny it, of course), and he's realized that he was backing the wrong horse in his glory days. He's still trying to figure how to make Libya into a capitalist country and still retain his revolutionary credentials. We could turn him, and I think Bush-Powell-Rice is smart enough to do so — if they want to. Muammar's already got strained relations with the Soddies, and it would tickle his vanity to be used as a counterweight to them, keeping in mind that he'd be counting the while on feathering his own nest.
Instead, the United States should demand that Tripoli, Khartoum and Riyadh cease their export of radicalism to Africa.
Agreed.
It should also encourage democratic development through the Millennium Challenge funds. If, as President Bush has said, "America is committed to the success of Africa" and has a "long-term commitment" to developing democracy there, it needs to counter the threat to democracy posed by the spread of extremist forms of Islam.
Other than building a fence around it, I don’t know what the hell to do about Africa. Stopping the Saudi money would be a good place to start.
Posted by: Steve || 10/16/2003 10:00:41 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [342 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Let's keep the Zulus on our side.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/16/2003 10:24 Comments || Top||

#2  I believe I read somewhere that the other rapidly growing religion in Africa is evangelical Christianity. This should be an interesting mix.
Posted by: John B || 10/16/2003 12:01 Comments || Top||

#3  Mummar is expanding into Africa because he thinks the US doesn't really care if he builds a fiefdom to the South. The US demonstrated to him that our interests in the ME would thwart his efforts to be the new Salidin.
I am a little confused about the Sharia Law in Kenya. If Sharia Law is supposed to re-enforce morality throughout society, then why are all the
Kenyan judges being canned for corruption? Will throwing out these judges solve the problem, or just drive up the price of the bribes? Is the bribe acceptable in Islam - kind of like a repalcement for teh interest payment?
When you talk about child labor, don't leave out Nigeria. Saw a BBC article about 74 kids as young as 4 being freed from rock crushing duties in a granite pit.
I'm sure we can provide some manpower from Gitmo if the Nigerians still need their rocks pulverized manually.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 12:41 Comments || Top||

#4  Sorry, that was 74 freed.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 14:37 Comments || Top||

#5  Is the bribe acceptable in Islam - kind of like a replacement for the interest payment?

Sort of, Super Hose.. While interest, aka ursury, is supposedly forbidden in Islam, they have a rather neat way around it.

You can get a loan from someone, and they're forbidden to charge you interest. (ie, you borrow $100, you pay back only $100)

But late charges are NOT forbidden. So when a loan is made, there's an unspoken understanding between lender and borrower that the borrower will come in "late" to make a payment. (Late meaning something along the lines of "ohmyallah, it's 2pm, I was supposed to be there at 1:59...")

Then, the borrower is charged a "late fee" for not having made the payment on time. And if the late fee just happens to be the same amount that any interest might have been, hey, that's just one of those marvelous coincidences that Allah permits to happen in this wonderful world.

The entire process is winked at by the majority of Islam, with only the real psychos screaming about it.

Same goes for bribes. Bribes are forbidden, charitable donations are not. "I was just a little too busy to make it to a place where I could donate this money, your Honor.. will you please take it for me, and see that it's put to a charitable use?"

And it's just another one of those marvelous coincidences that the "most charitable use" that the judge could find was at his own home.

Funny how that works out, eh?

Ed Becerra
Posted by: Ed Becerra || 10/16/2003 15:47 Comments || Top||

#6  Ed, I wish my bank would wink wink - encourage me to make my payments late.

Thank you for the information about the interst loophole- the more I find out about people in the world the more facinating I find them.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 17:58 Comments || Top||

#7  Same goes for bribes. Bribes are forbidden, charitable donations are not.

Gifts aren't fobidden either. One of my sailors did something stupid in a Bahraini restaurant (cussed out the owner). Solved the problem by a)having him apologize in front of all and sundry and b) me buying dinner for the two Bahraini policemen and giving a large tip to the owner.
Posted by: Pappy || 10/16/2003 20:49 Comments || Top||

#8  In other words, ED B--they are where the Catholic church was during the Middle Ages--interest was usury but the Jewish money lenders were allowed to charge interest--when the ruler got too far in the hole--he expelled the Jews or started an Inquisition/Pogrom
Posted by: RonnieRaygun || 10/16/2003 22:53 Comments || Top||


International
Coughing Annan sounds off.
United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan warned of rising hostility between Islam and the West, describing it as "ugly, dangerous and wrong".
Is he going to recommend that Islamists make peace with the West? Live and let live? Mutual respect and non-interference? Betcha he doesnt'...
In a statement to the opening of a summit of the 57-member Organisation of the Islamic Conference, Annan said Western governments must reopen a few sites in Germany and send the Jews there address the grievances of Muslims, while Islamic states needed to make greater efforts to overcome their many deeply ingarained problems.
Kofi? Their grievances include the fact that they're not able to kill us in large enough numbers...
He said he hoped to see Christians and Muslims reconciling in Sudan and perhaps Cyprus.
Sorry, the Cubbies were eliminated.
"Yet there is, in too many places, a feeling of rising hostility between Islam and the West. This is ugly, dangerous and wrong," said the statement delivered by the UN special representative to Afghanistan, Lakhdar Brahimi. "We must unite our efforts to address the extremism that is, alas, on the rise, not only in Islam but among many faiths," said Annan, who withdrew from the summit after the Iraq issue was taken back to the UN Security Council. He said Western governments must match their rhetoric of respect for human freedom with action to promote development, including a fair world trading system.
People have differing definitions of fair.
But he told the Muslim leaders — who represent 1.3 billion people — they also had to play their part. Muslims are dismayed by the apparent inability of Islamic states to do much about problems such as weak government systems, a lack of democracy and poor human rights, especially for women, he said. Extremist dogmas are gaining ground, impeding the progress of the Muslim community and threatening the security of people all over the world, he said. Only when Muslims enjoy fundamental rights will the Islamic world be able to assert its influence. "The Muslim peoples are capable of much greater things and they know it," Annan said.
That's why they keep pushing for more shariah...
The UN leader said the Palestinian people were suffering under "a harsh and prolonged occupation" and no one should be surprised at their feelings of humiliation, anger and despair. However, suicide bombings, in which hundreds of Israeli civilians have been indiscriminately killed, are not acceptable."
"But they must be rewarded anyway."
"These acts of terrorism, abhorred and rejected by all of you, defile and damage even the most legitimate cause."
There's your problem, Kofi. They're not "abhorred and rejected" by all of them. They're celebrated and praised and financed...
The roadmap peace plan for the Middle East, drawn up by Russia, the United States, European Union and the UN, is the only hope for freedom for Palestinians and security for Israel, he said.
The next part is what he would have said had his lips stayed on.
The roadmap envisages a Palestinian state being created by 2005 with security guarantees for Israel.
Which the Palis won’t keep until there is a generation raised to not be evil.
"If it fails, I fear the region will recede even further into violence and misery," Annan said, appealing for support for the peace plan from Muslim states.
They support the obligations of the West but have no desire to fulfill their obligations.
The pro-genocide Palestinian cause has been the main uniting force for the OIC, which was formed in 1969 after the burning of the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem
Posted by: Atrus || 10/16/2003 9:58:44 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [273 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Oops, meant to file this under "International"
Posted by: Atrus || 10/16/2003 9:59 Comments || Top||

#2  Among the many problems here is that Kofi may actually believe that "These acts of terrorism, abhorred and rejected by all of you [you being the attending Islamic delegates],...."

That is incorrect. In fact, most of the delegates don't even consider suicide bombings against Israelis to be terrorism.
Posted by: mhw || 10/16/2003 10:04 Comments || Top||

#3  Maybe the mooselimbs could take this opportunity to look deep within themselves and ask the question, "Why does everybody hate us?"
Posted by: BH || 10/16/2003 10:57 Comments || Top||

#4  In a statement to the opening of a summit of the 57-member Organisation of the Islamic Conference, Annan said Western governments must address the grievances of Muslims, while Islamic states needed to make greater efforts to overcome their problems.

Oooooh, the "grievances of Muslims". Anyone prepared to read a very long list?

He said he hoped to see Christians and Muslims reconciling in Sudan and perhaps Cyprus.

What about Egypt? What about Saudi Arabia? What about Pakistan? What about Indonesia?

He said Western governments must match their rhetoric of respect for human freedom with action to promote development, including a fair world trading system.

What is this idiot talking about? Someone sells something, and they get paid for it at a mutually agreeable price. How much more "fair" can that get?

The roadmap envisages a Palestinian state being created by 2005 with security guarantees for Israel.

Funny, but I never thought of this particular problem as an Islam-against-the-West type of thing, so I don't see why it's being brought up. I had it figured as some sort of uniquely Palestinian malady, but if Kofi wants this to be classified as part of some Islam-against-the-West clash, I can live with that. Makes things a lot easier.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 11:24 Comments || Top||

#5  Don't see many Methodists exploding, do ya Koffie?

Don't se many Sufis either. Maybe they have something in common? Like, fer instance, NOT BEING INTOLERANT MANIACS?

Who'da thunk it...
Posted by: mojo || 10/16/2003 11:42 Comments || Top||

#6  Muslims are dismayed by the apparent inability of Islamic states to do much about...a lack of democracy and poor human rights, especially for women, he said.

Extremist dogmas are gaining ground...


These two statements are contradictory. If Muslims really want democracy and more human rights, why are they turning to groups which consider democracy to be inimical to Islam, and have little demonstrated regard for human rights, especially for women?

This is typical for the Western (or in this case, Westernized) bien-pensant: "If I were going to fly a planeload of screaming passengers into an office building, I'd be doing it for democracy and human rights. Therefore, this is the goal of the so-called "terrorists"."

They don't seem to realize that the brave "freedom fighters" have different goals. Or maybe they do realize it, but lie anyway.
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 10/16/2003 12:34 Comments || Top||


Axis of Weasels to support Iraq Resolution.
EFL.
Germany, France and Russia — the leading opponents to the U.S.-led war in Iraq — said they will vote in favor of a U.S.-backed resolution to help reconstruct Iraq.
Well, the Cubs got eliminated(dammit), but hell had still frozen over, so

The U.N. Security Council will vote Thursday morning on the resolution, which would authorize a multinational force under U.S. command and call for troop contributions from other countries. Plus, it seeks "substantial pledges" from the 191 U.N. member states at a donors conference in Madrid, Spain, on Oct. 23-24. The vote is expected to be a shut out, with only Syria perhaps abstaining.
Gee, I wonder WHY.
The three refused to give support for a U.N. resolution authorizing the use of force to oust deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and had differed with the United States over the timing of returning the Arab country to full sovereignty. But French officials said the European support would not translate into the funds and troops sought by the United States to ease the burden of American forces in Iraq. "We agreed that the resolution is really an important step in the right direction," Schroeder said after a 45-minute conference call with presidents Jacques Chirac (search) of France and Vladimir Putin (search) of Russia. "Many things have been included from what we proposed. This led us ... to jointly agree to the resolution."

Putin, who was in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, as a special observer at an Islamic summit, said the leaders had agreed on a common position, but didn’t give details. U.S. officials had said Wednesday they expected Russia to vote "yes" Thursday, and probably Germany as well, and weren’t ruling out approval by France, the most outspoken critic of Washington’s Iraq policies. China indicated it might support for the resolution that Washington also hopes will set Iraq on its way to independence. "Our attitude has become more and more positive," said China’s U.N. Ambassador Wang Guangya, whose country supported the package of French-Russian-German amendments. "For China, what we want to see is a stronger role for the U.N. and early return of the sovereignty. At this stage, I think this resolution is far from what (we) expect. But I think as council members, we should always be ready to make compromises," he said Wednesday. Although the Security Council remains split on how fast to transfer power to Iraqis -- and who should oversee Iraq’s political transition from a dictatorship to a democracy -- the compromise appeared to be part of an effort to send a more united message on the importance of returning sovereignty to Iraq.
We’d better, but there’s some things we have to do first.
Posted by: Atrus || 10/16/2003 9:47:20 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [263 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ..the compromise appeared to be part of an effort to send a more united message on the importance of returning sovereignty to Iraq.

Sending a "more united message" is of no value here. The objective is to get Iraq and its citizens up and running a functional, orderly government. Whether it takes a year or several years, the point is to do the right thing, without having to be concerned with some kind of Axis of Weasels-defined timetable on the process.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 10:02 Comments || Top||

#2  the "united message" eases the political pressure on Blair(yet again), provides cover for countries like India and Bangladesh to send troops, makes it easier for Japan and South Korea to send money (and maybe troops) and improves our bargaining position with the Turks. Probably helps with the "Arab street" (for those who take that seriously) and may even help in Iraq (at least in the Sunni triangle, though probably not among the Kurds who have little love for the weasels) It also eases the situation at home, makes it easier for Dubya to pass the $ package, and eases domestic pressures. All in all a big win - and a nice strategy - peel off China and Russia first, isolating Germany and France.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 10:39 Comments || Top||

#3  Mr. Chairman, the delegation from the great state of Syria votes:


YES!

15-0!

Do you suppose Assad got the message?
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 10/16/2003 11:20 Comments || Top||

#4  Still makes me wonder what we've found there.

They're being too agreeable.

Did we agree to give Pooty-poot a piece of the action?

And China - did we use NorK pressure? Hard to take over the world when your neighbor's eating humans and we could look the other way.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/16/2003 13:20 Comments || Top||

#5  I think the Chinese had no dog in this fight.
For the last year, their position seems to have very carefully tracked the 'center'.
I think their primary objective WRT Iraq is to not piss anyone off. They seem to have done a pretty good job of it.
Posted by: Dishman || 10/16/2003 14:55 Comments || Top||

#6  Dishman: I think the Chinese had no dog in this fight.

Not exactly. The Chinese media have been chockful of the usual anti-American propaganda on the Iraq situation. The difference is that they've figured out that if France and Russia are going to obstruct the US anyway, why bother doing it themselves (and set themselves up for heat from the US)? They're free-riding on French and Russian obstruction. I think the reason for the success of the current resolution is that the French and the Russians have finally figured out they are standing out there naked in front of the world facing the diplomatic and economic wrath of Uncle Sam. That realization is probably what prompted them to agree to the resolution, not any conversion on the road to Damascus.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/16/2003 16:09 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Agents Find Boston Airport Security Lapses
Five federal agents posing as passengers succeeded in sneaking weapons through security checkpoints at Logan international Airport last week, officials said.
Hmm.. no suprise there....
The Homeland Security agents smuggled certain "prohibited items" past federal screeners, said George Naccara, the airport’s federal security director. He did not specify what the items were. The two jetliners that were flown into the World Trade Center towers originated in Boston. Federal screeners were hired at airports nationwide to tighten security after the attacks.
You would think Boston at least would be a little more careful.
"I am always disturbed if we miss anything," Naccara told the Boston Globe. "We’re not perfect. I admit that. It was a learning experience." A number of screeners were pulled aside on the spot and told they had failed to find illicit items, Naccara said.
OOps! I guess I missed one... again...
"In individual cases (undercover agents) spoke to the screeners," he said. The tests at Logan were part of a federal investigation at about 15 major airports around the country, he said, adding that security at Logan is "no better or worse" than at other airports.
This is *not* a good sign folks.
The security lapses will help the airport improve safety, according to Jose Juves, a spokesman for the Massachusetts Port Authority, the agency that operates the airport but has no security responsibility. Logan was visited as part of Homeland Security’s program of "penetration testing" said Tamara Faulkner, a spokeswoman for the inspector general’s office. She refused to confirm the results of the tests, saying they are expected to be presented to Congress within several months.
On a positive note it is nice to know that they are testing the screening process at least. I think the results of the test would be interesting to see.
Federalizing the screeners, of course, was to fix all this...
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/16/2003 9:39:14 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [275 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Not a good sign...but I must say not unexpected.

This article reflects the average effectiveness of any federal employee, I don't know why DHS would be any different.

Until we allow the price of air travel to reflect the higher costs of security, and empower airlines themselves to handle security (as, I believe El Al does), I don't expect it to get any better.
Posted by: mjh || 10/16/2003 9:58 Comments || Top||

#2  What's worth noting here is that the screeners are now federal employees. Fire a screener for not doing their job? Good luck.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 10:04 Comments || Top||

#3  Logan's the worst airport in the US and Massport's the biggest hack government agency in the US. If you aren't a terrorist when you get there, you may be by the time you leave. The smart folks up here fly out of Providence or Manchester, NH if at all possible.
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 10:11 Comments || Top||

#4  TSA has been advertising like crazy on the radio in the DC area for "part-time, temporary" screeners.

B-a-R, I think the firing rules for TSA employees are different than for the gerneral civil servants...
Posted by: seafarious || 10/16/2003 10:56 Comments || Top||

#5  Bomb,
Didn't part of the bill which created Homeland Security allow for firing? As I recall the Unions and Dems had their panties all in a knot because the bill specifically allowed for firing and removal of workers for not doing their job. They were all bitching because the jobs were not 'protected'.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/16/2003 11:53 Comments || Top||

#6  On the "up" side, a friend of mine, whose daughter has been taking Karate for six years, says enrollment in martial arts courses has tripled since 9/11, and more people who enroll are completing the course. OBL may have to become triple-jointed to step on it as much as he has...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/16/2003 13:02 Comments || Top||

#7  I think the firing rules for TSA employees are different than for the gerneral civil servants...

Didn't part of the bill which created Homeland Security allow for firing? As I recall the Unions and Dems had their panties all in a knot because the bill specifically allowed for firing and removal of workers for not doing their job. They were all bitching because the jobs were not 'protected'.


I don't remember. But when it comes to federal employees, I'm not convinced that these screeners are going to receive treatment that much different from other federal employees. Unless, of course, a few people visibly start losing their jobs...
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 15:14 Comments || Top||

#8  ...treatment that much different from other federal employees. Unless, of course, a few people visibly start losing their jobs...

Unfortunately it might take a lot of people visibly losing their lives.

When are people going to realise that we are in a farking WAR.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/16/2003 21:14 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Joseph’s tomb torched
Tell me again about the Religion of Peace™
Palestinians have set fire to Josephs Tomb, a Jewish shrine in the West Bank, hours after a group of Jewish settlers held holiday prayers there with an Israeli army escort, witnesses say. They said Palestinian youths threw burning tires into the tomb after the group had left in the early hours of the morning on Thursday. The blaze tore a large hole through the domed roof of the three-room shrine, which was empty at the time.
I'd say their milk of human kindness had curdled, but we already knew that...
Abdel Fatah Fayad, who lives near the tomb, said a group of Jewish settlers and Israeli soldiers entered it around midnight. "They prayed and danced and took over a few buildings surrounding the tomb and made noise," he said. "At about six o’clock they and the army left the area. Afterwards, a (Palestinian) student set fire to the tires and threw them."
What're the "students" studying? Vandalism?
The Israeli army, which controls security in the area, said weather conditions caused the fire to burn out on its own shortly after the tires were thrown in. No one was injured and the tomb was undamaged. Joseph’s Tomb is located in the Palestinian city of Nablus but left unguarded. Jewish worshippers have required military escorts there since Palestinians launched an uprising against Israeli occupation three years ago. "During Jewish holidays we cannot prevent people the freedom of prayer. So when requests are made (for an escort) we consolidate groups and escort them," an army spokesman said. Jews are observing their Succoth harvest festival this week. Some Jews believe the site is the tomb of biblical patriarch Joseph, although some archaeologists dismiss the claim. The tomb has been vandalised by Palestinians and marked with graffiti by religious Jews since the start of the uprising.
And we’re supposed to give these people a state why again?
The Paleostinian Authority has also obligated itself to protect the site. They do a good job, don't they?
Posted by: Atrus || 10/16/2003 9:24:48 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [294 views] Top|| File under:

#1  a Jewish/Christian holy site? Take out the Temple Mount....payback's a bitch
Posted by: Frank G || 10/16/2003 9:43 Comments || Top||

#2  Aren't these clowns supposed to like "Yusuf" too as the father of a prophet? I think al-Majaharoon in the UK issued a fatwa against some playwright who wrote a nasty play about Jesus, Mary and Joseph. No consistency with these dopes.
Posted by: OminousWhatever || 10/16/2003 10:17 Comments || Top||

#3  I just wonder. What are the odds 'Allah' wanted the Al-Aqsa mosque was built on top of the old Jewish temple? I mean, didn't muslims have another place to build? Surely, the religion of peace wouldn't have desecrated the holiest shrine of another religion, right?
Posted by: Sorge || 10/16/2003 10:17 Comments || Top||

#4  different joseph. Joseph the son of jacob, wearer of coat of many colors, dreamer of dreams,grain administrator for pharoah in Egypt. NOT Joseph of Bethlehem, husband of Mary (who was presumably named for the above Joseph)
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 10:57 Comments || Top||

#5  Sorge - there was no Jewish temple standing on the mount when the muslims got there - the romans had burnt it in 69 AD, and then built a temple to Jupiter on the site. IIRC, the Christians (after Constantine) built a church there.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 10/16/2003 10:59 Comments || Top||

#6  "Deceased" is a state, is it not?
Posted by: BH || 10/16/2003 11:01 Comments || Top||

#7  So the Muslims tore down one of the holiest churchest in the world to build the Temple Mount mosque?

So far Islam has pissed off every major religion in the world ( Buhdism, Christianity, Judiasm, ect. ) and they're still wondering why they're at the bottom of the food chain?
Posted by: Charles || 10/16/2003 12:40 Comments || Top||

#8  Charles,
Don't forget the Hindus for sheer number.
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 10/16/2003 16:54 Comments || Top||

#9  liberalhawk-
Thanks, should have thought that through and read more closely.

In reality it would be impossible, but if Jewish Settlers would start venerating Arafat's compound, maybe the Paleos would burn it down? At least start venerating Saeb Erekat's car, but only while he's in it.
Posted by: OminousWhatever || 10/16/2003 17:11 Comments || Top||

#10  Actually, there are a few Hindus who believe the Taj Mahal was a Hindu temple, stolen and "repurposed" into a Muslim tomb. The evidence I've seen is pretty convincing, but I'm no expert.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/16/2003 19:23 Comments || Top||


East Asia
Craft Carrying China's First Astronaut Lands
Associated Press. EFL
China's first astronaut returned safely to Earth on Thursday when his craft touched down on time and as planned after 21 hours in orbit. Beijing's mission control declared the country's landmark debut flight "a success." The craft carrying Lt. Col. Yang Liwei landed by parachute on the grasslands of Inner Mongolia in northern China at dawn Thursday, the official Xinhua News Agency said. Minutes later, he grabbed the capsule hatch with his hand, pulled himself out and waved at rescuers. Shenzhou 5 landed at 6:23 a.m., the government said. Less than two hours later, he was in a helicopter en route to Beijing, the state broadcaster China Central Television reported.
Welcome back.
Posted by: Mike || 10/16/2003 6:36:59 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [313 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Minutes later, he grabbed the capsule hatch with his hand, pulled himself out and waved at rescuers."
...and said "Who order Pupu platter?"
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 11:14 Comments || Top||

#2  En route to Beijing?

" Uh-oh, I don't feel to well. Did someone forget too pressurize the capsule again? "
Posted by: Charles || 10/16/2003 12:14 Comments || Top||

#3  Actually, we probably shouldn't discount China's new space initiative or take it too lightly no matter how backward they may seem to be right now.

China is, has been, and will continue to be, a force in the world and they fervently believe they are going to war with the United States in the near future.

He who holds the high ground holds all the advantages.

China has ambitious plans for their space race. They intend to land a man on the moon and put people on Mars within 20 years. With our own space program languishing in bureacratic hell and the safety problems of the virtually shut-down shuttle program (we can't have a replacement shuttle in place for at least 5-10 years and good authorities report we could not return to the moon today if we wanted to, let alone Mars!), it would not take long for China to outdistance us - especially if they "play the game" of demilitarizing their space program on the one hand (the public one), while fully militarizing it on the other (the non-public one).

We discount China and its ambitions at our own risk.

Thanks,
Greg (recently frocked LC of the great VRWC)
Posted by: LC FOTSGreg || 10/16/2003 22:07 Comments || Top||

#4  YUP--next thing you know--them damn Chinee black helicopters is gonna be flying over my house confiscatin' my gunz
Posted by: RonnieRaygun || 10/16/2003 23:00 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Palestinians held over US convoy attack
Palestinian police have arrested at least five people in connection with the attack on a US diplomatic convoy in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday. Palestinian sources said the suspected militants were arrested after a brief gunfight at the Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza. Some of them are said to belong to the Popular Resistance Committee — a militant splinter group from Yasser Arafat’s mainstream Fatah movement.
Looks like DEBKA was right this time. This'll be Yasser's back-channel, plausible-deniability private mob...
The Popular Resistance Committee is a group of local militias — including many disgruntled former policemen — set up months after the start of the intifada to defend Palestinian refugee camps. The left hand They have denied involvement in Wednesday’s attack — after an initial statement by the right hand admitting it.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 10/16/2003 4:36:05 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [263 views] Top|| File under:

#1  First and foremost I would like to convey my sincere condolences to the families of the dead and wounded Americans. My heart is with you.

It's a shame they had to die while escorting a convoy going to hand out stipends to Palestinian students. Another classical case of biting the hand that feeds you.

I think it's high time for all Americans to understand that there would never be any solution to the Pali-Israely conflict before a complete and irrevocable uprooting of all terrorists and their supporters.

The Americans (especially State Dept.) should realize that untill a full practical,psychlogical and mental rejection of terrorist methods occurs on the Palestinians side, they remain a strategic long term enemy of Israel, America and the entire Western Civilization.

I advise merciless treatment of all palestinian individual terrorists, terror organisations and especially Arafat and his cronies (the old Tunis Faction)who have not given up their old dreams of destroying Israel. They are corrupt dead-enders who inflict a huge amount of suffering and misery on their own people while stashing away hoards of money in secret Swiss bank accounts - the same money earmarked to help their poor brothers.

While Bush cannot directly order Arafat's liquidation he should fully understand that as long as Arafat lives his people are doomed to misery, poverty and suffering. He must find a way of eliminating Arafat (You know, some subtle way, ask the CIA or the NSA) because we (The israelis) are too soft hearted to do this (what will the Eurocrats say if we did this ???).

By eliminating Arafat, a major symbol of World wide terror will be eliminated and he would not be able to oppose more reasonable groups in Pali politics which would then be able to pursue saner ways of ending the conflict (if such a thing is at all possible).

I really hope that Americans wake up soon and see this reality as it is.

Finally I truely hope no more American blood will be shed in this conflict.
Posted by: The Dodo || 10/16/2003 5:28 Comments || Top||

#2  Amazing how fast they can round up the terror suspects when they have to, isn't it? Just fascinating. I'm sure the PLO is really going to crack down hard this time. Really. Serious. No fooling around this time.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 10/16/2003 6:16 Comments || Top||

#3  Some of the Euroweasels who have been apologizing for the Paleo terrorists are demanding action (or at least a pretense of action). Since much of the Paleo income comes from the Euroweasels, the more obvious terrorism is embarrassing to the latter.
Posted by: mhw || 10/16/2003 8:08 Comments || Top||

#4  Does anyone think these guys were really involved?Seriously, what are the chances they're guilty and not just some stooges Arafat's throwing away?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/16/2003 9:59 Comments || Top||

#5  I'm sure the PLO is really going to crack down hard this time.

Without swift American retribution in some manner, the prospect of this happening is rather slim.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 10:18 Comments || Top||

#6  good point Crawford - actually, the logistics point to the fact that the people stationed with their finger on the blaster key probably had been briefed by the Palestinian security forces about which cars would be first, second, third, etc. in the convoy.
Posted by: mhw || 10/16/2003 10:20 Comments || Top||

#7  These guys had as much to do with the bombing as I did. They are a quasi-anti-Arafat fringe with low numbers and an EASY target. It reminds me of the end to Casablanca “Round up the usual suspects.” I suspect that they are ‘confessing’ at this very moment (whilst the electrodes are connected to the do dads!) to all kinds of crimes. The sad part is that we are going to have to swallow what ever investigation they concoct/conduct.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/16/2003 12:20 Comments || Top||

#8  Oh, yeah, Inspector Reynaud is definitely on this case. "Quick! Find three, or five or sixteen guys! You don't have to be picky. The Americans are pissed and need to be placated! Just make sure they aren't the actual guys. Might need them down the road..."
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/16/2003 12:48 Comments || Top||


Africa: North
Libya leaves talks on airline bombing compensation
Negotiations with Libya on compensation for a 1989 airline bombing were suspended Tuesday, with members of the Libyan delegation announcing they would return home without a deal, a representative of victims’ families said. It was not clear why the talks broke off.
Come now!
Guillaume Denoix de Saint Marc, who represents families of the 170 people killed in the attack on the French UTA airline, a DC-10 jet, said his group was "waiting for the misunderstanding to be resolved to start negotiations again.
There was no misunderstanding, the French and the Libyans understand each other perfectly!
"We’re sorry that the negotiations were interrupted because they were advancing in a constructive way," he said in a telephone interview, without giving details of what went wrong. LCI television suggested Libya felt the French government was not holding up its end of a partial deal signed last month. Libya’s representatives, from a charity foundation headed by one of Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi’s sons, arrived Monday night in Paris. With talks suspended, they announced their intention to leave Wednesday, Denoix de Saint Marc said. "I don’t think there’s a definitive break between the families and the delegation," he said. The talks come more than a month after the partial deal, signed September 10, had cleared the way for a United Nations vote that lifted 11-year-old sanctions against Libya, long seen as a rogue state that sponsored terrorism. That accord did not set a compensation amount.
Sanctions are lifted, so Muammar doesn't have to worry about it anymore...
Under the deal, Libya and victims’ families were meant to have reached a definitive agreement by Saturday. As the deadline was about to pass without a pact, French President Jacques Chirac warned on Saturday that Libyan-French relations would suffer if Libya did not follow through on its promises. Victims’ families are seeking additional compensation on top of $33 million that Libya already paid in 1999. Libya has offered an extra $1 million for each family, but Denoix de Saint Marc has said that is not enough.
Wonder why?
The French government, while not directly involved in the talks, had congratulated the two sides Tuesday on their return to the negotiating table. "We hope that the resumption of these negotiations can conclude as quickly as possible," said Foreign Ministry spokesman Herve Ladsous.
If it weren’t for the families involved, I’d hope for a prolonged, bloody draw between the French and the Libyans. They deserve each other.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/16/2003 2:25:23 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [312 views] Top|| File under:

#1  offered an extra $1 million for each family, but Denoix de Saint Marc has said that is not enough.
Wonder why?


Probably because negotiators' fees alone are somewhere around $999,999.00 per family. For the shit job they did back in 1999, I wouldn't pay them a penny.
Posted by: Rafael || 10/16/2003 2:55 Comments || Top||

#2  not even counting in the kickbacks to Dominique and Jacques, they are demanding a lot more money. Reminder to Jacques: when extorting money from a thug like Moammar, don't give up the hostage (deal) on a promise... heh heh
Posted by: Frank G || 10/16/2003 9:09 Comments || Top||

#3  Probably because negotiators' fees alone are somewhere around $999,999.00 per family.

Nahh, it has nothing to do with negotiator's fees. The amount will be enough only when it is equal to or exceeds that which the U.S. settled for.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/16/2003 10:11 Comments || Top||

#4  On the Independent chat room I visit, some euro stated that the original compensation was set/negotiated by phrench judges.

If so, not our problem they value their people so little.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/16/2003 12:49 Comments || Top||

#5  I think some Palistinians are going to find out just how much we value three American citizens.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 12:54 Comments || Top||

#6  If so, not our problem they value their people so little.

I think we already saw proof of that this past summer.
Posted by: Pappy || 10/16/2003 20:35 Comments || Top||

#7  ATTENTION, SERIOUS ATTENTION: I suspect that Lybia wants all sanctions lifted so together with Egypt and Saudi Arabia they can try to built NUCLEAR POWER......
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/16/2003 21:41 Comments || Top||

#8  Anonymous, we already knew that. Well, not the SA part, but you can't have terrorists without the Saudi's. It just wouldn't be right.
Posted by: Charles || 10/16/2003 22:40 Comments || Top||


Caucasus
Azerbaijan President’s Son Wins Election
The son of Azerbaijan’s ailing president won an overwhelming victory in elections to choose his father’s successor, according to returns Thursday.
The surprise! Quick, Ethel! My pills!
But western observers and the opposition alleged massive voting irregularities.
Wonder if Jimmah Carter made an appearance?
One observer said there were so many problems with Wednesday’s election — among them ballot-box stuffing and unmonitored voting — that he stopped trying to record them all.
Idjit — what good is an observer who doesn’t do his job? Tourist!
Violence flared during the vote, with police clashing with protesters twice during an hours-long standoff in the capital, Baku. With more than two-thirds of Azerbaijan’s 5,111 districts reporting, President Geidar Aliev’s son, Ilham Aliev, had nearly 80 percent of the votes, according to preliminary results posted by the Central Election Commission. His closest rival, Isa Gambar, had about 11 percent.
Only 80%? Guess his advisors had long discussions about the exact amount of fraud to commit to have a "believable" result.
As the count progressed, Aliev cleared a majority of the votes cast, meaning there would be no runoff with any of the other seven candidates, the commission said.
Wotta surprise.
Aliev stood for the ruling Yeni Azerbaijan party after his father — hospitalized in the United States — pulled out of the race less than two weeks ago. More than 71 percent of the former Soviet republic’s 4.4 million electorate voted, election commission chairman Mazahir Panahov said.
The other 29% will be jugged shortly.
Gambar, leader of the opposition party Musavat, or Equality, claimed that he won a majority, charging that there were irregularities that favored Aliev. Many in Baku complained that they were prevented from registering and that others cast multiple votes. Inside his party headquarters, Gambar waved a stack of ballots marked for Aliev that he claimed had been filled out before the election, and claimed he soundly beat the president’s son in districts monitored by international observers. ``This is the beginning,’’ protester Majif Mammedalizade, 37, said of the demonstration. When voters wake up Thursday and ``everyone knows the vote is false, Ilham Aliev has no chance,’’ he said. One OSCE observer, Ivan Lozowy, said he eventually stopped recording irregularities because he saw so many at the 35 polling places he visited Wednesday. He said violations included multiple voting, falsified ballots, and ballot counting in absence of observers.
Thanks Ivan, I’m sure the International Criminial Court will consider your testimony someday far in the future.
Even before election day, international organizations reported widespread irregularities, including biased media coverage, violence against opposition protesters ignited by police or pro-government provocateurs, and intimidation of opposition sympathizers. Ilham Aliev has threatened decisive action against anyone who resorts to violence over the election results.
Like father, like son!
Posted by: Steve White || 10/16/2003 2:13:06 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [264 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Mayor Daley would be proud: "Vote early, vote often!"
Posted by: Frank G || 10/16/2003 9:23 Comments || Top||

#2  Even before election day, international organizations reported widespread irregularities, including biased media coverage,

What's Peter Jennings doing in Baku?
Posted by: Raj || 10/16/2003 12:38 Comments || Top||


Latin America
Unrest Continues in Bolivia
Despite moves by the military to tighten its control of the capital, President Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada’s hold on power grew more tenuous on Tuesday, as demonstrations demanding his resignation spread to provincial cities, and important political allies scrambled to distance themselves from him.
Sanchez de Lozada seems to have the support of the military. He should declare Martial Law in the whole country and ride this out.
"If the solution to preserving Bolivian democracy passes through the resignation of the president, we cannot put that aside," said Manfred Reyes Villa, leader of the conservative New Republican Force, a crucial part of the president’s fragile governing coalition. "I’ve been clear: We have to listen to the people."
Manfred Reyes Villa is seriously miscalculating. You don’t listen to the people when they support Communist Revolution.
More than 50 people have been killed here since Saturday in clashes between mostly Indian demonstrators carrying sticks and slingshots and the heavily armed troops the president ordered into the streets.
Considering this is a story from the New York Times, I’m willing to bet a sizesable portion of the Indians had rifles and were using them.
The antigovernment demonstrations began nearly a month ago, initially to protest a proposal to build a $5 billion pipeline to export natural gas to the United States and Mexico via a port in Chile.
Also, the protestors began to ask for the ’right’ to cultivate Coca for ’traditional’ purposes. This is a useful lie, massive cultivation of Coca in Bolivia began barely twenty years ago.
But as a result of the recent bloodshed, the focus of the protests has now shifted to demanding the resignation of Mr. Sánchez de Lozada, a 73-year-old millionaire businessman. Elected last year with only 22 percent of the vote, the president has accused his opponents of being part of "a seditious plot" supported by drug lords and leftist guerrillas.
This is an example of the New York Times’ Stealth Editioralizing. A ’73-year-old millionare businessman’, elected with ’only 22 percent of the vote’ is just asking to be overthrown, isn’t he?
Of those known to have been killed, only one has been confirmed to be a soldier. Citing witness accounts, local news organizations reported that he was executed by his commanding officer after refusing to fire on demonstrators.
An exemplary officer.
As support for Mr. Sánchez de Lozada, a staunch ally in the American war on drugs, was ebbing here, his allies abroad were trying to shore up his position. In Washington, the State Department issued a statement warning that "the United States will not tolerate any interruption of constitutional order and will not support any regime that results from undemocratic means."
Look at that, the State Department is not supporting Totalitarianism for once.
Posted by: Sorge || 10/16/2003 1:29:15 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [333 views] Top|| File under:

#1  and will not support any regime that results from undemocratic means
Unless, of course it is a regime sanctioned by the US government to ensure a profit stream for our multi-national, predatory corporations then scream "Communists in the house" and we'll be on their ass supporting whatever Fascist dictator emerges from the fog of war
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 10/16/2003 2:24 Comments || Top||

#2  comment on comment

He should declare Martial Law in the whole country and ride this out.

Hey, Chavez could do the same, he has the backing of the military...oh, I also noticed that he was democratically elected...and won pretty convincingly http://www.electionworld.org/venezuela.htm
Posted by: Igs || 10/16/2003 3:04 Comments || Top||

#3  it was actually 22.5%
Posted by: Igs || 10/16/2003 3:10 Comments || Top||

#4  Wow, I brought the Commie sympathizers out.

*Not Mike Moore* Our 'Multinational, predatory corporations' were going to invest five billion dollars in a project that would have put about 1.5 billion dollars in the coffers of the poorest nation in South America, Bolivia. They are drinking the blood of the innocents, I tell you!

*Igs* It is not enough to win a democratic election, once in power, you must respect individual freedom. The tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. And Chavez only has a tenous support of the military now because he purged it and put his own people in charge.
Posted by: Sorge || 10/16/2003 6:37 Comments || Top||

#5  So,you Commie sympathisers think that improving a dirt poor country's overall economy and providing jobs to people whose daily meals consist of a little rice and occasionally a bit of chicken is a bad thing.The economic system known as comunisiam is a failure.Wake-up,here is a cup of coffee.Reminds me of the tree-huggers,ask me wich is more important jobs or tree sex.
2 prime examples:
1)Building the Mt.Graham Observatory(Az).
This project would have provided hundreds of jobs,and pumped millions into the local economy.
This construction job was stopped because it would have disturbed the"endangered"Mt.Graham Red squiral.

Geta clue that tree loving rat would have moved to another tree.
2)Roosevelt Dam improvement(project competed): purpose of project:to repair detereorating 60 year-old dam and raise the height of the dam.Thus helping to alleviate a 20 year draught in the"Valley of the Sun"(Phoenix and surrounding areas),improve SRP's ability to provide electricity.Side benefits,makeing the largest lake wholly within the State of Az.even better,and pumping millions into the local economy from campers and tourists.
Impoundment of water halted by 7 year moratoriam from Tree-huggers,becuase it would have disturbed the nesting area of the"endangered"Sonoran Fly-catcher bird.This resulted in the reduction of stored water down to .09% of capacity and turning one of the finest lakes and best fishing spots in the country into a big assed mud hole.(moratoriam over and lake at.50%)

Geta clue,that ugly,goofy-assed bird would have built a nest on higher ground.
Posted by: Raptor || 10/16/2003 9:35 Comments || Top||

#6  The ghost of Simon Bolivar howls again...
Posted by: mojo || 10/16/2003 12:28 Comments || Top||

#7  Raptor - here is a link to a BBC article on field tests done on GM foods in Britain. The tests results show that GM food results in less biodiversity ... because there are fewer weeds.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 15:14 Comments || Top||

#8  Sanchez has madde an offer for a referendum on the pipeline.

Also Venesuala has set the date for its petition drive for a referendum on Chavez.
Posted by: Super Hose || 10/16/2003 17:52 Comments || Top||

#9  Sorge, Raptor, I would like to point out that I am not a commie sympathiser, far from it. I was brought up in a forner communist country, watched the ideaolgy being shoved down people's throats, watched friends being arrested, watched my parents being denied basic human rights. I would think that I have a slightly better understanding of the 'commie system'. This however has not pushed me all the way to the far right.

Serge, agree, it's not enough just to win an election (then again, he did win it twice), sometimes it's just much easier to do a military take over with the help of the CIA (like it has happened in many countries in south/central america). Your concern for human rights and freedom seems to be at odds with America's intervention in many parts of the world.

ps check under the bed, there might be commies there
Posted by: Igs || 10/16/2003 21:43 Comments || Top||



Who's in the News
42[untagged]

Bookmark
E-Mail Me

The Classics
The O Club
Rantburg Store
The Bloids
The Never-ending Story
Thugburg
RSS Links
Gulf War I
The Way We Were
Bio

Merry-Go-Blog
Hair Through the Ages









On Sale now!


A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.

Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.

Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
Click here for more information

Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
Pappy
lotp
Scooter McGruder
john frum
tu3031
badanov
sherry
ryuge
GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
Gloria
Fred
Besoeker
Glenmore
Frank G
3dc
Skidmark
Alaska Paul

Two weeks of WOT
Thu 2003-10-16
  Bali boom boy gets life
Wed 2003-10-15
  4 Americans murdered in Gaza
Tue 2003-10-14
  Turkish embassy in Baghdad boomed
Mon 2003-10-13
  Hassan Hattab deposed?
Sun 2003-10-12
  Al-Ghozi departs gene pool
Sat 2003-10-11
  Indonesian church torched, two killed by armed men
Fri 2003-10-10
  U.S. Nabs Fedayeen Saddam Leader
Thu 2003-10-09
  Iraqi Leaders Don't Want Turkish Troops
Wed 2003-10-08
  Algeria pounds Salafist HQ
Tue 2003-10-07
  Yasser on his deathbed?
Mon 2003-10-06
  Azam Tariq late!
Sun 2003-10-05
  Israel bombs IJ target in Syria
Sat 2003-10-04
  20 dead in Haifa boom
Fri 2003-10-03
  Suspected Saddam executioner caught
Thu 2003-10-02
  Pakistan kills 12 al Qaeda

Better than the average link...



Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
52.91.90.122
Paypal:
(0)    (0)    (0)    (0)    (0)