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Nork rocket launched, then 'breaks up'
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-Lurid Crime Tales-
Review-Journal owner facing $774,000 fee demand in Righthaven case
Attorneys say the owner of the Las Vegas Review-Journal should be required to pay $774,683 in legal fees for what critics call a failed ''shakedown'' copyright infringement lawsuit that threatened the free speech rights of a political website.
We got yer deep pockets right here...
The attorneys represent the Democratic Underground, a website that defeated Righthaven LLC, the R-J's copyright enforcement partner, in one of Righthaven's copyright infringement lawsuits. If attorneys for the Democratic Underground have their way, the family of Arkansas investment banking billionaire Warren Stephens will be paying their fees for two reasons:

  • They say the Stephens company that owns the R-J, Stephens Media LLC, used Righthaven as a tool to prosecute a frivolous copyright lawsuit against the Democratic Underground.

  • Even after the Stephens family invested in Righthaven, Righthaven apparently is now broke and can't or won't pay creditors' claims. That would leave Stephens Media on the hook for all of the fees in the Democratic Underground case under the theory it and Righthaven are jointly and severally liable.

    "Righthaven and Stephens Media had an improper motivation in the pursuit of this lawsuit and their litigation campaign more generally. They sought to shake down website operators and bloggers for nuisance-value settlements with threats of seizure of their domain name and huge statutory damage awards, regardless of whether those defendants' uses of the works at issue were actually infringing,'' said a filing Tuesday in federal court in Las Vegas seeking recovery of legal fees by Democratic Underground attorneys. ''As to deterrence, an award of fees is necessary to dissuade these parties and others from any similar scheme of shakedown lawsuits threatening staggering statutory damage awards and seizure of websites. Righthaven and Stephens Media pursued these claims such that numerous instances of legitimate fair use, like that here, would necessarily be dragged into their litigation machine."
  • Posted by: Fred || 04/12/2012 08:32 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

    #1  It must be opposite day. I'm rooting for the DU.
    Posted by: DarthVader || 04/12/2012 11:48 Comments || Top||

    #2  Logically going up the food chain for the deep pockets.
    Posted by: Alaska Paul || 04/12/2012 13:08 Comments || Top||

    #3  As best I can tell from following the news, up to this point the RightHaven trolls have paid ZERO while inflicting considerable expenses on everyone else involved.
    Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418 || 04/12/2012 13:22 Comments || Top||

    #4  get the money from Stephens. Then Stephens will have to sue RH to try and get their money back. They had a crooked alliance, they should be held jointly liable
    Posted by: Frank G || 04/12/2012 14:54 Comments || Top||

    #5  Heart. Cockles. Warm. :-D
    Posted by: Barbara || 04/12/2012 17:07 Comments || Top||

    #6  Revenge is a dish best served cold.
    Posted by: JohnQC || 04/12/2012 19:48 Comments || Top||


    -Obits-
    Ben Bella, first president of independent Algeria dies
    [Dawn] Ahmed Ben Bella, Algeria's first president after the country became independent from La Belle France half a century ago, has died following an illness, state media reported on Wednesday.

    He was 96 and died at his family home in the Algerian capital, according to the state-run news agency.
    ...and if you can't believe the state-run news agency who can you believe?...
    The son of peasant farmers who grew up near Algeria's border with Morocco, Ben Bella was one of the leading figures in the war for independence from La Belle France after World War Two, and spent several years in French prisons.

    When La Belle France relinquished control of Algeria in 1962, Ben Bella became president but he was unseated three years later in an internal coup by Houari Boumediene, a fellow independence fighter who took over as head of state.

    Ben Bella subsequently spent years in jail and exile before returning to Algeria in 1999.

    His death coincides with the 50th anniversary of Algerian independence, a date which many Algerians see as bitter-sweet because they feel the aspirations of the country's founding fathers, embodied by Ben Bella, have not been fully realised.
    Posted by: Fred || 04/12/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

    #1  Gaaaawd I feel old - I actually remember reading about him in my family's dusty old Year Books, World Book + Britannica, Americana Encylopedias from the 1950-60's.
    Posted by: JosephMendiola || 04/12/2012 0:57 Comments || Top||


    Africa Subsaharan
    Spanish Man Feared Kidnapped in Nigeria
    [An Nahar] Spain said Wednesday that one of its nationals, reportedly a doctor, had gone missing in southern Nigeria and was feared kidnapped.

    The disappearance of the man "has all the characteristics of a kidnapping for economic reasons," said Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo.

    Spanish media reported that the missing man is a 58-year-old doctor who works for a clinic belonging to a foundation financially supported by Catholic institution Opus Dei in southwestern Nigeria, a predominantly Christian area.

    "The organization he works for has asked for total discretion," the foreign minister added as he arrived in parliament.

    "It is in the south of the country, not in the north, so there are no political implications of any type."

    An insurgency by Islamist group Boko Haram
    ... not to be confused with Procol Harum, Harum Scarum, possibly to be confused with Helter Skelter. Currently wearing a false nose and moustache and answering to Jama'atu Ahlus-Sunnah Lidda'Awati Wal Jihad, or Big Louie...
    , which is concentrated mainly in northern Nigeria, has left more than 1,000 people dead since mid-2009.

    Police and soldiers are the main victims of the group, but it has also targeted Christians.

    The man was taken hostage on April 4 by several gunnies from his home in the southwestern city of Enugu, Spanish newspaper ABC reported, adding that he worked at the Niger Foundation Hospital which was founded in 1993.

    Spain's embassy in Nigeria was working with the local authorities to resolve the case and the foreign ministry was in "permanent contact" with the man's family, a ministry front man said.
    Posted by: Fred || 04/12/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


    Britain
    University to have alcohol-free areas for Muslims
    Next up gay free areas and after that segregation of sexes area
    A university Vice-Chancellor is planning to ban the sale of alcohol in parts of the campus because some Muslim students believe it is "evil" and "immoral".

    Prof Malcolm Gillies of London Metropolitan University said he wants to create alcohol free areas on campus out of "cultural sensitivity".

    About a fifth of students at the university come from Muslim families -- many of them young women from traditional homes. For many of them, the drinking culture among students marred rather than heightened their student experience, he said.

    Prof Gillies, an eminent Australian music scholar, said that he was consulting with staff and students about creating alcohol-free areas on the universty's two campuses as part of a major redesign.

    It is expected that the informal dry areas will be created within the next six months.
    Posted by: tipper || 04/12/2012 18:28 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

    #1  How about a simple process known as "Don't Drink"?

    Or hang around with those that do, or go to parties that serve it?

    Pretty simple to avoid actually.

    Can we get DumbAss free zones installed? I'm offended by them. The Vice Chancellor will be banned from a ever expanding zone around my body. Currently it is at 50ft, but tomorrow it will be 100ft.
    Posted by: DarthVader || 04/12/2012 18:39 Comments || Top||

    #2  The view that students somehow are riotous and somehow libidinous isn’t necessarily the case.

    And most recently of all, a "Roman Toga Party" was held from which we have received more than two dozen reports of individual acts of perversion SO profound and disgusting that decorum prohibits listing them here.
    Posted by: DepotGuy || 04/12/2012 19:18 Comments || Top||

    #3  Universities are striving for diversity even above providing a good education. In their quest they have set up a series of tribal communities on campus.
    Posted by: JohnQC || 04/12/2012 19:33 Comments || Top||

    #4  Funny - I have some Muslim friends (devout, no less - they actually keep Ramadan) who don't mind sitting at the table with me while I have a glass of wine, and don't think women need to be covered with a sacks or are good for nothing but birthing more jihadis, either.

    They think people like this are NUTS. Not to mention insulting.
    Posted by: Barbara || 04/12/2012 20:47 Comments || Top||


    Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
    Opposition Party Walks Out of Putin Address to Parliament
    Deputies from the opposition A Just Russia party staged a highly unusual walkout of the Russian parliament on Wednesday during an appearance by president-elect Vladimir Putin
    ...Second President of the Russian Federation and the first to remain sober. Because of constitutionally mandated term limits he is the current Prime Minister of Russia. His sock puppet, Dmitry Medvedev, was installed in the 2008 presidential elections. Putin is credited with bringing political stability and re-establishing something like the rule of law. During his eight years in office Russia's economy bounced back from crisis, seeing GDP increase, poverty decrease and average monthly salaries increase. During his presidency Putin passed into law a series of fundamental reforms, including a flat income tax of 13%, a reduced profits tax, and new land and legal codes. Under Putin, a new group of business magnates controlling significant swathes of Russia's economy has emerged, all of whom have close personal ties to Putin. The old bunch, without close personal ties to Putin, are in jail or in exile...
    Faction leader Sergei Mironov led his deputies out of the chamber in protest at Putin's response to a question about a mayoral vote in the southern city of Astrakhan that his party says was rigged and prompted the local candidate to go on hunger strike.

    Putin replied he had no authority to intervene in the case and urged the candidate to go to court. He also question why the hunger strike was declared before any appeal had been filed.

    Mironov "gave the order to leave the chamber because of Putin's rudeness," A Just Russia deputy Ilya Ponomaryov tweeted moments after the incumbent prime minister's answer.

    "We were not satisfied with the prime minister's response," Interfax later quoted Mironov as saying.

    Putin then went on to answer the next question from another politician without commenting on the incident.
    Posted by: Fred || 04/12/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

    #1  It is tense fur sure.
    Posted by: newc || 04/12/2012 0:18 Comments || Top||


    Down Under
    Serial rapist's Afghan ethnicity no excuse, says judge
    A JUDGE has today rejected an Afghan refugee's claim that he raped an intoxicated and vulnerable teenager because of cultural differences.

    Esmatullah Sharifi, 30, was appearing in the County Court for the second time in less than three years on a charge of rape and Judge Mark Dean said his background as a traumatised Muslim refugee was no excuse.

    The judge said a psychologist told the court Sharifi, who came to Australia in 2001 on a temporary protection visa, had "an unclear concept of what constitutes consent in sexual relationships'' in Australia. But the judge said Sharifi's background and flight from the Taliban in Afghanistan could not excuse an extreme act of violence.

    "You well knew the victim was not consenting to the act of sexual penetration you performed,'' Judge Dean said.

    Sentencing Sharifi for the rape of the 18-year-old woman, Judge Dean said that he had driven from his home in Tullamarine to Frankston looking for a victim.

    The woman was alone, intoxicated and sitting on the footpath near the 21st Century nightclub after she had a disagreement with her friends. Sharifi sat down beside her, started talking to her and offered to drive her to a hotel in Mornington where her friends had gone.

    Judge Dean said Sharifi drove in a different direction and the victim became concerned and texted her friends but he took her phone and found a dark street where he stopped. As she cried and asked if he planned to kill her Sharifi put his hand around her neck and forced her to remove her clothes before raping her.

    "Your offending is of the utmost seriousness,'' Judge Dean said in his County Court sentence. "You preyed upon a young vulnerable stranger who was alone and intoxicated at night. Your brutal conduct must be denounced by this court.''

    Sharifi pleaded guilty to one count of rape committed on December 19, 2008.

    Judge Dean said that in 2009 Sharifi was jailed for a minimum of seven years for the abduction and rape of a woman at Frankston on Christmas Eve, 2008, five days after the rape of the teenager. In that case he forced the 25-year-old into his car, punched her and raped her and the victim escaped by jumping from his moving car.

    A DNA sample taken after his conviction led to the charge he faced in court today.

    Judge Dean said that he had to sentence Sharifi by taking into account the sentence he is already serving and he set a new term of 14 years with a minimum term of 11 years. The effect of the sentence is that he will be eligible for parole in seven years and eight months.
    Posted by: Oztralian || 04/12/2012 00:40 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

    #1  How about respecting cultural differences---in Dar they cut off thief's hand?
    Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 04/12/2012 2:00 Comments || Top||

    #2  Serial rapist's Afghan ethnicity no excuse, says judge

    Wow. Common sense. Please send some this way.
    Posted by: gorb || 04/12/2012 3:02 Comments || Top||

    #3  This way, he'll be clearer on the concept of consent in civilized countries.
    Could be worse:
    Kipling's Epitaphs from The War:

    "One used and butchered me
    Another spied me broken.
    For which thing an hundred died.
    Thus it was learned among the heathen hosts
    How much a freeborn woman's favor costs."
    Posted by: Richard Aubrey || 04/12/2012 8:02 Comments || Top||

    #4  Bet he doesn't have a "an unclear concept of what constitutes consent in sexual relationships'' when he meets Big Bonza in the showers in prison.
    Posted by: tipper || 04/12/2012 11:11 Comments || Top||

    #5  Six more misunderstanders of women , Sweden this time.
    Posted by: tipper || 04/12/2012 12:34 Comments || Top||


    Europe
    Conditions in U.S. Supermax Prison Better Than Most in Europe
    The Supermax prison in Colorado where the most dangerous criminals in America are incarcerated provides prisoners with more generous services and activities than do most prisons in Europe, says the European Court of Human Rights.

    The Strasbourg-based court's acknowledgement came in a ruling Tuesday, provisionally approving the extradition of five terror suspects to face trial in the United States.

    Lawyers for radical Muslim cleric Abu Hamza and five other men indicted in the U.S. on various terror charges between 1999 and 2006 argued that, should they be convicted in the U.S., they would face conditions of incarceration and length of prison terms that would amount to "inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment," in violation of article three of the European Convention on Human Rights.

    The court rejected the argument, with the seven judges agreeing unanimously that article three would not be contravened "as a result of conditions of detention at ADX Florence" in Colorado, should the suspects be extradited to the U.S. (ADX stands for Administrative Maximum.)

    It said that although inmates at the ADX Florence facility are confined to their cells most of the time, they are also "provided with services and activities (television, radio, newspapers, books, hobby and craft items, telephone calls, social visits, correspondence with families, group prayer) which went beyond what was provided in most prisons in Europe."

    The judges also noted that, according to the Department of Justice, 89 of the prison's 252 inmates were in a "step-down program."

    "This showed that the applicants, if convicted and transferred to ADX, would have a real possibility under such a program of moving through different levels of contact with others until being suitable for transfer to a normal prison," the court stated.

    The step-down program runs on a three-year cycle. Inmates are kept in their cells 23 hours a day for the first year, then gradually allowed contact with other inmates and prison staff. In the third year they may be out of their cells for up to 16 hours a day and eat meals in a dining room.
    Posted by: || 04/12/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

    #1  We should be more like Europe in this regard. Is Syria part of Europe?
    Posted by: gorb || 04/12/2012 3:05 Comments || Top||

    #2  Maybe but at least these swine will face their entire life in prison where they can do no further harm. Not like the UK where they're released in a couple of years and a few months for (ironically) good behaviour.
    Posted by: Bill Schwarzeneggar1358 || 04/12/2012 3:06 Comments || Top||

    #3  Not yet gorb LOL
    Posted by: Bill Schwarzeneggar1358 || 04/12/2012 3:07 Comments || Top||


    Home Front: WoT
    Gilani confers minister status on Sherry Rehman
    [Dawn] Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani
    ... Pakistain's erstwhile current prime minister, whose occasional feats of mental gymnastics can be awe-inspiring ...
    on Wednesday conferred the status of Federal Minister on Excellency Ms. Sherry Rehman, Ambassador of Pakistain to the US.

    The Cabinet Division has issued the notification in this regard.

    The former information minister was appointed Pakistain's ambassador to the United States on 23rd November last year.

    She was member of the National Assembly before appointed as an ambassador and was serving as chairperson Pakistain Red Islamic Thingy Society.

    Ms Rehman has also remained a member of the National Security Committee of Pakistain's Parliament and is the founding president of the Jinnah Institute in Islamabad, an independent public policy institute committed to regional peace and inclusive democracy in Pakistain.

    She has served as Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting from March 2008 to March 2009.

    Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Wednesday conferred the status of Federal Minister on Excellency Ms. Sherry Rehman, Ambassador of Pakistain to the US.

    The Cabinet Division has issued the notification in this regard.

    The former information minister was appointed Pakistain's ambassador to the United States on 23rd November last year.

    She was member of the National Assembly before appointed as an ambassador and was serving as chairperson Pakistain Red Islamic Thingy Society.

    Ms Rehman has also remained a member of the National Security Committee of Pakistain's Parliament and is the founding president of the Jinnah Institute in Islamabad, an independent public policy institute committed to regional peace and inclusive democracy in Pakistain.

    She has served as Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting from March 2008 to March 2009.
    Posted by: Fred || 04/12/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Pakistan

    #1  Mmmm. Sherrrry ....
    Posted by: gorb || 04/12/2012 3:03 Comments || Top||

    #2  I'm not going to touch Pakistain's Federal Minister on Excellency title. That's just self-snarking. But I gotta ask: they do know Sherry is a girl, right?

    And how's that president of the Jinnah Institute, an independent public policy institute committed to regional peace and inclusive democracy in Pakistain thingie working out? Seems like an uphill swim. Unless 'regional peace and inclusive democracy' is some sort of Pakistaini code for messing with the Hindus and keeping the Afghan hillbillies stirred up.
    Posted by: SteveS || 04/12/2012 21:28 Comments || Top||


    India-Pakistan
    Ephedrine import scam: Apex court issues notice to Gilani's kid
    [Dawn] An embarrassment with serious political ramifications may engulf Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani
    ... Pakistain's erstwhile current prime minister, whose occasional feats of mental gymnastics can be awe-inspiring ...
    as the role allegedly played by his younger son in the import of proscribed drug 'ephedrine' and subsequent attempts to hush up an inquiry into the matter have reached the Supreme Court.

    A three-judge SC bench comprising Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, Justice Khilji Arif Hussain and Justice Tariq Parvez ordered Regional Director of the Anti-Narcotics Force (ANF) Brig Fahim Ahmad Khan and Deputy Director Abid Zulfiqar on Tuesday not to relinquish their charge and continue to investigate the issue without yielding to any pressure.

    The officers were posted out on Monday to frustrate the probe.

    ANF's Director General Maj-Gen Syed Shakeel Hussain was also transferred on an order backdated to March 21 after the court had issued an order on March 29.

    The court had taken up an application moved by Advocate Mohammad Akram Sheikh on behalf of Brig Fahim who accused the authorities of obstructing the investigation.

    On March 29, the court had turned down a request by the ANF about withdrawing the case against the import of the proscribed drug.

    "Prima facie we are of the opinion that transfer/posting of ANF DG Maj-Gen Syed Shakeel Hussain, Brig Fahim and Abid Zulfiqar in colourable exercise of powers is not free from extraneous consideration," the chief justice observed.

    The court also decided to issue notices to acting secretary of the narcotics division Zafar Abbas, ANF DG Shakeel Hussain, Brig Fahim, Ali Musa Gilani, health secretary and the directors of Berlex Lab International, Multan, and Danas Pharmaceutical, Islamabad.

    Attorney General Maulvi Anwarul Haq was asked to assist the court at the next hearing on April 20.

    Musa Gilani, son of the prime minister, was linked to the controversy when the name of Tauqir Ahmed Khan surfaced during the investigation. The latter said he was personal secretary to Musa Gilani and got the out-of-turn quota approved by the health ministry against rules and regulations.

    Subsequently, Berlex Lab and Danas Pharmaceutical were given the quota to import 6,500kg and 2,500kg of ephedrine on March 25, 2010, and April 15, 2010, respectively, for export purposes.

    Commonly known as poor man's cocaine, the chemical is also used to manufacture medicines for common cold, flu and asthma.

    Rules do not permit a quota of more than 500kg. The two companies later sold the chemical to local manufactures and unknown people in violation of law.

    The court ordered the authorities to maintain status quo and not to issue any order without the concurrence of the court and till a decision. If in the meantime, it said, Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister and former health secretary Khushnood Akhtar Lashari and Ali Musa Gilani or anyone else wanted to record their statements they should be provided a fair opportunity in accordance with the law.

    Both were repeatedly summoned by the investigating team but they did not turn up.

    Brig Fahim informed the court about his meeting with Khushood Lashari at the Prime Minister's House on March 24 after notices had been sent to Mr Lashari and Musa Gilani.

    In his affidavit submitted to the court, Brig Fahim said Mr Lashari told him in a maligning and threatening manner that the prime minister was very upset and worried because of the summons issued to his son.

    Brig Fahim alleged that Mr Lashari wanted to make full use of his office to suppress/distort/misdirect the investigation against himself and Musa Gilani and suggested that the ANF should focus on the two pharmaceutical companies. "Both the companies will be ruined and the state machinery will be with you.........," he quoted Mr Lashari as saying.

    The issue was raised in the National Assembly in January and former health minister Makdoom Shahabuddin set up a fact-finding committee. It submitted a report which was never brought to the record of the house.

    In its order, the court noted that under the Anti-Narcotics Force Act of 1997, posts of the ANF director general and field directors were usually held by serving defence personnel of the ranks of Major Gen and Brig, respectively.

    But surprisingly, the establishment division by means of the April 6, 2012, notification repatriated Maj-Gen Shakeel Hussain and gave Zafar Abbas, Acting Secretary of Narcotics Control (BS-21), additional charge of the ANF Director General.
    Posted by: Fred || 04/12/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Pakistan

    #1  I dunno, smacking their heads on the floor while high on crank might be a good thing...
    Posted by: M. Murcek || 04/12/2012 16:03 Comments || Top||


    Home Front: Culture Wars
    Marines fight to protect crosses at Camp Pendleton as atheist groups seek removal
    Planted atop a remote hill in the middle of California's Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Base rests two 13-foot crosses.

    Originally erected back in 2003 by seven Marines grieving over lives lost in the war on terror, this site originally established for reflection has now become grounds for controversy.

    “It's not a religious spot at all, it's a place for the Marines to grieve and to grow to let go of their burdens of what they had in their soul, so they can go back down that hill and back into battle and put their own lives on the line,” says Marine widow Karen Mendoza.

    Her husband Ray was one of those original seven who climbed the hill that day, three of whom have since been killed in action, including Ray.

    “It's a symbol of sacrifice regardless of what you think, pray, like or don't like,” says Karen.

    Over time the site has become a bit more permanent. A wildfire destroyed the original cross a few years back, so Marines and widows carried these two new versions up the hill.

    Now two symbols are at the end of a brutal 3,000-foot hike that begins at an area of the base called Camp Horno and ends at the top of a ridge line that overlooks vast openness in one direction and the glistening Pacific Ocean in the other.

    Here the crosses are blanketed in symbols of valor, sorrow and festivity. You'll see Purple Heart medals, pictures, books, messages, mementos from deployments around the globe and even a bottle or can of the fallen's favorite liquor...all left in remembrance.

    While those symbols are at times heartbreaking, the rocks are what overcome your thoughts and have taken over the site. Each one has been carried and left here by a Marine, sailor, soldier, airman, widow or child.

    Some are in excess of 50 pounds. Some are inscribed. Others look as they have just been freshly torn from the Pendleton ground. All are left as a symbol of the burden it takes to carry one of these rocks on such a brutal hike and the burden it takes to serve and ultimately give a life for your country.

    As he overlooks the solemn site recently, retired Marine Colonel Nick Marano tells us, “This wasn’t intended to be a religious memorial, it was just intended to be able to provide a fitting and a dignified memorial to their fallen comrades and frankly controversy was the very last thing on their minds.”

    Marano tells me no one would complain if, for example, someone decided to put up a Buddhist shrine, “No one would complain at all, and I bet if we poked around, we’d probably find something like that here…I mean you can see a very side variety of items have been used, everything from a bottle of Jack Daniels to a Purple Heart and everything in between. I think most Americans are very fair-minded and see this memorial, frankly, for what it is,” says the Colonel as he overlooks the site.

    He continues: “These two memorials have been sitting out here largely unknown outside of a very small group of Marines and family here at Camp Pendleton. The view that you can even see them from is very restricted, certainly you can’t see it from the public freeway or any of the highly trafficked public roads and even aboard Camp Pendleton it’s a very narrow viewing angle that you have of these crosses and this site.”

    But the area has become controversial and more known after a newspaper report last fall detailed the location and posted a picture. In response, several groups filed complaints with Marines arguing the site violated the Constitutional mandate of separation of church and state, including the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers or MAAF. They want the crosses moved to a church on private land and flags or some other symbol used instead to mark the site.

    "This Christian crosses need to go to a private Christian instillation and we need to stick to things that honor everyone equally and maintain neutrality towards government," says association president Jason Torpy.

    For 10 years, the crosses have stood on the hill without complaint, but the MAAF says if they don't come down soon, it will file a lawsuit and possibly hold protests outside the Marine base gates. Torpey says the original Marines, while good intentioned, overstepped their bounds by building a shrine without approval or notice from the Corps.

    "These Marines were abusing their access to the installation when they went on to it and starting building things," says Torpy.

    Back in 2003, Pastor Scott Radestki climbed the hill as part of the original seven. He's frustrated the debate has come to this and says, "those individuals who have poured out their life, poured out their hope, left those rock stones in mementos at the top of the hill to honor their fallen comrades and to get rid of the burdens and the sadness and frustration so that they can free themselves and make clear decisions and continue to serve in our military focused."

    He continues: "I think that is an excellent place to dump it...on top of that hill. And there's a freedom there, there's a hope there, and that's what makes me upset, is that somebody would try to take that away."

    U.S. Marine Gunnar Vincens says he's divided on whether the crosses should be taken down. As an atheist in the Marines, he has no objections to a war memorial on the ridge above Camp Horno, “but it is religious in nature and commanders should not bring up marines who may not have the same Christian religious beliefs.”

    MAAF and their supporters believe the crosses should be taken down because they're located on federal land and then replaced with something more appropriate in their view, like a flag, eagle, or globe and anchor. Colonel Marano says Marines and others who continue to come here to reflect will be sorry to see them go.

    The commandant of the Marines is expected to rule on the cross controversy any day.
    Posted by: Sherry || 04/12/2012 16:44 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

    #1  How about the Commandant donates the area around the crosses to a private charitable organization that will maintain it?

    Stupid atheist pricks. I bet they wouldn't dare object if someone set up a minaret.
    Posted by: Rambler in Virginia || 04/12/2012 18:10 Comments || Top||

    #2  By the way, my comment about stupid atheist pricks is not a knock on all atheists, just those like the "MAAF" organization.

    Freedom of religion does not necessarily mean freedom from religion.
    Posted by: Rambler in Virginia || 04/12/2012 18:12 Comments || Top||

    #3  Is *ever* a good idea to try and stop Marines from doing something?
    Posted by: SteveS || 04/12/2012 18:31 Comments || Top||

    #4  I bet they wouldn't dare object if someone set up a minaret.

    No one ever volunteers to be beheaded, not even sheep...
    Posted by: Steve White || 04/12/2012 18:46 Comments || Top||

    #5  The atheists have set up a religion of non-belief. They are trying to make the world over for their religion. When do we get to tell them to belief what they will but stfu about the rest of us?
    Posted by: JohnQC || 04/12/2012 19:39 Comments || Top||

    #6  belief believe
    Posted by: JohnQC || 04/12/2012 19:40 Comments || Top||

    #7  I'm with you, John. These athiests are obviously religious zealot. It's just a religion of "no religion."
    Posted by: Barbara || 04/12/2012 20:43 Comments || Top||

    #8  zealots
    Posted by: Barbara || 04/12/2012 20:49 Comments || Top||

    #9  ...however, with Obamacare's imposition of authority over the church and beliefs, the whole separation of church and state issue is now over.
    Posted by: Procopius2k || 04/12/2012 21:10 Comments || Top||



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