At Phoenix Sky Harbor airport today, an individual later discovered to be a public school teacher was arrested trying to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square, a slide rule, and a calculator. At a morning press conference, Attorney General John Ashcroft said he believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-gebra movement. He is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction. "Al-gebra is a fearsome cult," Ashcroft said. "They desire average solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a search of absolute value. They use secret code names like 'x' and 'y' and refer to themselves as 'unknowns', but we have determined they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, 'there are 3 sides to every triangle'." When asked to comment on the arrest, President Bush said, "If God had wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes."
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/27/2004 11:32:38 AM ||
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#1
Speaking of philanderers, anybody watch Clinton's speech last night?
Posted by: Dar ||
07/27/2004 13:44 Comments ||
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#2
Since I hold a tenuous BS in Mathematics, I offer:
Q: Did you year about the constipated mathematician?
A: He worked it out with a pencil.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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#3
Super Hose,
Ouch!
Posted by: Stephen ||
07/27/2004 14:14 Comments ||
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#4
Phoenix is on the north end of the Sonora Desert, a place known to drive men mad, with a 4000 year old reputation for things that go bump in the night. There are places south of here with names like "Hell's Trail" (appropriate), and "The Tortured Desert" (even more appropriate.)
Tucson has more witches, fortune tellers, mediums and well-dones than the rest of the US combined.
Here there be thingys.
#7
.com, I clicked on your link while eating an apple as someone knocked and entered my office door. The result would have made a fine sketch for a 3 Stooges short.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 19:31 Comments ||
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#8
For sure things that go bump in the night down here on "la frontera": I used to live near Sonoita - about 60 miles southeast of Tucson - all the "things" happen to speak Spanish and are trekking northward...
Australia refused on Tuesday to apologise to Spain and the Philippines after blaming them for encouraging militants to issue threats by withdrawing their troops from Iraq.
"Are we not supposed to notice? Sorry. We don't have time to be that polite. We have more important things to do."
Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said Spain and the Philippines needed "to face up to the truth" that terrorists, who were using them as examples when threatening other countries with attack, were exploiting them. Spain summoned Australia's ambassador in Madrid on Monday to protest Downer's comments over the past two days, which it described as "unacceptable".
And if there's anyone who knows unacceptable, it's Zapatero.
What're they going to do if they don't accept them? Send them back?
"There's no point in trying to scurry away from the truth ... I am sensitive about the fact that terrorists use the examples of Spain and the Philippines in order to put pressure on Australia," Downer told Australian radio. "If you accede to the demands of terrorists they will exploit the acceding to their demand ... we are not going to apologise. We'll let bygones be bygones," he said.
"Just drop it now, and we won't dwell too much in the future on your lack of cojones."
Spain's Socialist party had vowed to pull troops out of Iraq and made good on its promise after unexpectedly winning a March 11 poll, three days after 191 people were killed in coordinated train bombings in Madrid blamed on Islamic militants. The Philippines brought its troops home early to save the life of a Filipino hostage. Australia's conservative Prime Minister John Howard last week defended his decision to join the war in US-led war on Iraq after a report criticised Australia's intelligence agencies and their assessments of pre-war information. He has said Australia's 850 troops in and around Iraq will stay as long as necessary. A poll has shown two-thirds of Australians support his stand. But the opposition centre-left Labor party, polling neck-and-neck with the eight-year-old government, has pledged to bring troops home by Christmas if it wins office in a cliff-hanger election tipped for October.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/27/2004 12:01:01 AM ||
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Spain summoned Australiaâs ambassador in Madrid on Monday to protest Downerâs comments...
Why? He's calling it like it is. What utter losers.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/27/2004 0:12 Comments ||
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#3
Australia refused on Tuesday to apologise to Spain and the Philippines after blaming them for encouraging militants to issue threats by withdrawing their troops from Iraq. Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said Spain and the Philippines needed âto face up to the truthâ that terrorists, who were using them as examples when threatening other countries with attack, were exploiting them.
Wow. I absolutely must go back to Aus for another vacation. :)
#7
Spain is a once proud country chafing to be under the heel of the Moose Limbs again it would seem. Good luck finding your "own way" to deal with Islamo -Fascism. Spain now offically sucks. The Philippines are a freeking joke, what more can you say. Either of them getting upset over truthful comments is laughable.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
07/27/2004 14:42 Comments ||
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#15
How is Australia to blame for Spain and the Philippines both exhibiting victim mentalities? Foreign Minister Downer has merely called a spade a spade. Too bad if appeasers dislike such candor. Only this sort of direct approach and frank language is of any use in fighting terrorism. Those who wish otherwise have their heads in the sand.
#17
When are Spain and the Philippines going to apologise to the rest of the civilised world for breaking ranks and surrendering - inexcusably - to terrorists? Australia has nothing whatsoever to apologise for.
Victorian Premier Steve Bracks has confirmed that a terrorist group which has made threats against Australia was operating in Melbourne a decade ago. But Mr Bracks says he does not believe members of the Islamic Tawhid Group are still holding meetings in Melbourne.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
The Federal Government has asked ASIO to find out more about Islamic Tawhid, which has demanded on an Internet site that Australia withdraw its troops from Iraq or face attack from "columns of rigged cars". The group called itself the European arm of Al Qaeda.
Wrong continent, mate. You think this is France?
A Melbourne newspaper has reported that police have been warned the group has a cell still operating in Melbourne. Mr Bracks says there was a matter involving the group a decade ago but it was resolved by the Australian Federal Police and Victoria Police. He says the meetings are no longer occurring in Melbourne. "My understanding is that this relates to a matter which was 10 years old which has been resolved and the case has been concluded," Mr Bracks said. "It doesn't relate to any of the Internet reports which were apparent on the weekend."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/27/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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INCREDIBLE ESCAPE
By cutting the cell bars with iron shears, Armenian swindler Emili Parapoziam escaped from the Istanbul Security Directorate where he was being kept for deportation. During the count in the detention room which is monitored 24 hours a day with surveillance cameras, officials knew about escape of Parapoziam who cut the bars with iron shears and jumped down an area three meters beneath and later exited the building like a visitor. There were five Chechens in the same room who have links to al-Qaeda. Police investigate how he managed to escape and the iron shears was brought in.
I'd investigate why the Chechens didn't and who in the Istanbul Security Directorate just bought a new car.
SINEM IS VICTIM OF MINI-SKIRT
Turkish girls have always been facing problems in schools in Germany and France due to Islamic-style headscarf (turban). However, this time a Turkish girl is at logger-heads with a school in England due to her mini-skirt. Four girls between 12-15 years old including Turkish girl Sinem Zelzele were dismissed from school with the pretext that their mini-skirts were seducible. Her mother Pembe Zelzele said, ''British teachers took racist decision.''
Should have just stoned the little tramps.
AL QAEDA ALERT AT AIRPORTS
''Yellow alert'' is activated at airports when a very important intelligence about Al Qaeda's activities against planes has reached to Ankara. Yellow alert is one step lower than red alert.
INCIRLIK INSISTENCE OF U.S.
It was reported that Bush administration demanded ''maximum flexibility'' which would not require case-by-case political decision on every operation for F-16 fleets which it wanted to deploy at the Incirlik air-base. When Ankara said it was impossible to accept such a demand, Washington gave the start for a new plan which the Turkish side can accept.
Those Iraqi air bases can't come too soon.
ANKARA'S COMPLAINT: IRAQ
Ankara feels uneasy: Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi does not want to come to Turkey. A request (by Turkey) to open a consulate general in Mosul was rejected. There are problems in Kirkuk.
Namely, Kurds.
TURKISH DOCTOR TO BEAM
The Galileo Avionica, an Italian military plane and civil and military satellite firm, signed an agreement with Turkish scientist Seckiner Gorgun. Gorgun said that Italians would establish a laboratory for him. Gorgun's most important project is a ''beam'' system similar to the ''Star Trek'' TV-serial. He said that they would firstly beam mice.
Somehow, "Beam me up, Gorgun" just doesn't inspire confidence.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/27/2004 2:43:34 PM ||
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Gorgun's most important project is a ''beam'' system similar to the ''Star Trek'' TV-serial.
I googled this guy up. He (usually) appears as Suleyman Seckiner Gorgun, a specialist in the interaction of EM fields with living tissue. Here's an extremely dubious site where he provides links to several papers on the topic. This includes several papers from Physica Scripta, none of which he has authored.
This page, in Italian, describes Gorgun's inventions to date: a small artificial heart which runs off the organisms own electrical "system" (i.e. as a natural heart does), and some electronic gizmo to cure tumors (at least, according to the babelfish translation).
Sounds like a crackpot. I was so hoping for a beaming device, too.
Hundreds of U.S. intelligence agents have been moved into Bosnia and Herzegovina to track suspected Islamic militants, the Telegraph said Monday.
European intelligence sources say almost a decade after the end of the war in the former Yugoslavia, Bosnia and Herzegovina has become a "one-stop shop" for Islamic militants heading from terrorist battlegrounds in Chechnya and Afghanistan to Iraq.
About 300 U.S. military and CIA agents will remain in the Balkan nation after the United States and NATO pull their troops out in a planned handover to European Union peacekeepers.
The U.S. agents will monitor Muslim foreign fighters who settled peacefully in Bosnia after the end of the 1992-95 war.
They are believed to be providing documents and weapons to active mujahedin returning to the country after tours abroad, the Telegraph said.
"There is a flow of people heading in from Chechnya and Afghanistan on to Europe and back, then to Iraq," one official told the newspaper. "They are spreading the story that Bosnia is a one-stop shop close to Europe for terrorism needs: guns, money, documents."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/27/2004 12:31:11 PM ||
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"When I talked about the heart and soul, Iâm talking about the artistic expression..."
The story of how the previous administration allowed UBL to seed Bosnia with his minions is interesting reading. The "No Instruction" Policy is the quintessential Clinton foreign policy.
When he hangs it up, keep him the hell away from the NEA. We don't need to be funding any more art that is full of heart and soul but bereft of intelligence, morality and talent. The policy brings confusion "is" confusion to the world stage.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 14:11 Comments ||
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There is no place quite like eastern Europe/Russia for the black market. They are masters at it.
Secretary of State Colin Powell is in Hungary at the start of a week-long trip to Europe and the Middle East. Talks will focus on Iraq, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and Sudan. Mr. Powell, who has attracted recent critical comment for traveling less than his predecessors, is making up some of that perceived deficit with an overseas mission spanning a week and including stops in at least six countries in Europe and the Middle East. The Secretary will hold talks with his counterpart, Foreign Minister Laszlo Kovacs, and other senior officials here in Budapest.
Hungary has been a strong supporter of the U.S.-led war in Iraq, though Mr. Kovacs suggested last week Hungary's 354-member troop contingent might be withdrawn before its mandate ends at the close of the year, if Iraq returned to stability. An official traveling with Mr. Powell said the Secretary would not press Hungarian officials to extend their Iraq presence, but rather thank Hungary for its participation in the multi-national force and for its small presence with NATO in Afghanistan, as well.
Mr. Powell goes on from Hungary for a mid-week swing through the Middle East, including stops in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and perhaps elsewhere in the region.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/27/2004 12:17:02 AM ||
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Sorta like the trip he made before the Iraq War?
Posted by: john ||
07/27/2004 11:30 Comments ||
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From The New Yorker, an article by Lawrence Wright.
.... The Al Qaeda cell in Spain is old and well established. Mohamed Atta, the commander of the September 11th attacks, came to Spain twice in 2001. The second time was in July, for a meeting in the coastal resort of Salou, which appears to have been arranged as a final go-ahead for the attacks. After September 11th, Spanish police estimated that there were three hundred Islamic radicals in the country who might be affiliated with Al Qaeda. Even before then, members of the Spanish cell had been monitored by police agencies, as is evident from the abundant use of wiretaps and surveillance information in indictments that were issued in November, 2001, when eleven suspects were charged with being Al Qaeda membersthe first of several terrorist roundups. And yet, according to Spanish police officials, at the time of the Madrid attacks there was not a single Arabic-speaking intelligence agent in the country. Al Qaeda was simply not seen as a threat to Spain. "We never believed we were a real target," a senior police official said. "That's the reality." ....
Gustavo de Aristegui is one of the leaders of the Popular Party in Spain's Basque country. For years, he represented Donostio-San Sebastiän, the region's capital, in the Spanish congress. A lawyer and former diplomat, Aristegui has been preoccupied for many years with the rise of Islamic terror. His father was Spain's Ambassador to Lebanon and was killed in Beirut in 1989, when Syrian forces shelled his diplomatic residence.
"Al Qaeda has four different networks," Aristegui told me in Madrid, the day after the Socialists took power. "First, there is the original network, the one that committed 9/11, which uses its own resources and people it has recruited and trained. Then, there is the ad-hoc terrorist network, consisting of franchise organizations that Al Qaeda created -- often to replace ones that weren't bloody enough -- in countries such as the Philippines, Jordan, and Algeria." The third network, Aristegui said, is more subtle, "a strategic union of like-minded companies." Since February, 1998, when Osama bin Laden announced the creation of the World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Crusaders and Jews -- an umbrella organization for Islamist groups from Morocco to China -- Al Qaeda has expanded its dominion by making alliances and offering funds. "Hamas is in, or almost in," Aristegui said. "Bin Laden is trying to tempt Hezbollah to join, but they are Shia, and many Sunnis are opposed to them." Finally, there is the fourth network"imitators, emulators," who are ideologically aligned with Al Qaeda but are less tied to it financially. "These are the ones who committed Madrid," Aristegui said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/27/2004 12:16:26 AM ||
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It appears that some kind of attack would have happened even if Spain had not joined the Coalitionâor if the invasion of Iraq had never occurred. ...
Thereby putting to lie the leftists contention that Spanish participation in the war was why they were attacked...they were going to be attacked ANYWAY...why? Because the Islamists WANT Spain...and they aren't appeased. No way, no how. they want it all...
#11
We rarely castigate anyone in this day and age for the old crime of being 2 STD away to the left of the the "so called normal range of iq". So don't fret.
Just when I thought you couldn't get any stupider, you do. When are you returning your house to the aborigines from whom you stole the land, Antisemite? And what does your "comment" have to do with the animals who are attacking Spain?
#20
The reason I said it is because Hitler wanted more living space for Germans and Sharon wants more living space for Israelis (you know the settlements)
A dozen Bulgarian nationals are suspected of links to terror organization al-Qaeda, according to reports. The Bulgarian agents collected information about people and sites here and informed al-Qaeda on the society and political elite sentiments to the war in Iraq and the country's participation in it, local 24 Hours Daily reported, citing sources from the secret services. Several have been exposed to be double agents and consequently expelled from Bulgaria's services.
Kenyan Fahid Mohammed Ally Msalam, who is on FBI's list of most wanted terrorists, has reportedly visited Bulgaria's capital several months ago. Fahid Msalam was indicted on December 16, 1998, in the Southern District of New York, for his alleged involvement in the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya, and for conspiring to kill U.S. nationals. The US Rewards For Justice Program offers a reward of up to USD 25 M for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Fahid Mohammed Ally Msalam.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/27/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Recall this in southern Bulgaria there is a Muslim population which has been there for many years.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/27/2004 21:10 Comments ||
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Truly "hard guys" in this country which elicited martial praise from both Hitler and Stalin...
#3
The KGB sure liked the Bulgarians. They used them for lots of pesky little problems. Why some would even suggest they used them for a hit on the Pope...
BOSTON — Talk about your convention floor fights.
"That's absolutely the most despicable thing I've ever seen!" Fahrenheit 9/11 filmmaker Michael Moore roared at a surprised Bill Hemmer, who had interviewed him roughly 45 minutes earlier on CNN's Monday edition of American Morning.
Your faithful firsthand witness, who was quietly interviewing Mr. Hemmer at the time, perked up noticeably at this sudden surge of indignation. Here's how it unfolded on a morning that began with Mr. Hemmer's comparatively uneventful 7:20 a.m. interview with an entourage-escorted Hillary Rodham Clinton. Queen-for-Life Mrs. Clinton wore an impeccably tailored salmon-colored pantsuit, caramel pumps and regularly reapplied lipstick during a convivial media go-around that also included one-on-ones with CBS' Dan Rather, CNN's Judy Woodruff and ABC's Chris Bury. Mr. Moore was taken for a mudslide his usual rumpled self in jeans, black T-shirt and jacket, sneakers and a green Michigan State Spartans baseball cap.
Mr. Hemmer, operating from CNN's showy new convention-floor anchor stage, decided to parry with Mr. Moore amid the empty chairs of the filmmaker's home-state Michigan delegation. Near the end of their live interview, Mr. Hemmer told him, "I've heard people say that Michael Moore is the greatest living American."
"Oh, who are those people?" Mr. Moore retorted jovially.
"I've heard people say they wish Michael Moore were dead," Mr. Hemmer continued. It's a fair cop
"Oh, well, jeez, who would say that?" Mr. Moore asked in turn. Hey, whose been taking? I'll bet it was .com, no AoS, no Fred
Any negative reactions to Fahrenheit 9/11, which recently topped $100 million at the box office, are from "that minority of Republicans and right-wingers who are upset because they know their days are numbered. ... And so they're all running around, all saying crazy things like that," Mr. Moore contended.
The interview soon ended after the two exchanged pleasantries. Mr. Moore then was surrounded by mostly television reporters who peppered him with questions. After about 10 minutes of this, he said offhandedly, "I don't want to do CNN. No more CNN, no."
No one seemed quite sure what he meant, and the remark went unchallenged while Mr. Moore continued with his impromptu media conference. Fahrenheit 9/11 has "two villains," he said — President Bush and the mainstream media.
"With all due respect to our network anchors, the movie is a bit of an embarrassment to them," he said. "I think they know that the early days of this war were not their bright, shining moment. ... The patriotic thing to do if you're a reporter is to ask tough questions."
All well and good. But the more he thought about it, the more Mr. Moore became incensed by a comment from his exchange with Mr. Hemmer. The irate filmmaker came charging toward Mr. Hemmer as the CNN anchor talked to The Dallas Morning News about the plusses of a floor-level stage that, alas, partially blocks the view of the Arkansas delegation.
" 'Some people want you dead,' " Mr. Moore said, repeating the anchor's on-air remark to him. "Would you say that to [John] Kerry or anyone else? I mean, why would you do that? That's absolutely the most despicable thing I've ever seen!"
Mr. Hemmer had no immediate answer, leaving Mr. Moore to move on to another interview with a media gaggle still in tow. The anchor then said he had no regrets.
"I've heard it from a number of people," Mr. Hemmer said of the "dead" comment. "It's clearly an emotional film that divides people about their feelings."
And as for Mr. Moore's feelings toward him?
"He offered to shake my hand at the end of the interview," Mr. Hemmer said. "Why he's doing this now, I don't know."
The Arkansas delegation, by the way, will be receiving a gift bag of items emblazoned with CNN's logo, including a visor, T-shirt, pen, buttons and mints.
"I think the other delegations will understand that Arkansas is bag-worthy," CNN spokeswoman Julianna Evans said. You know you're a looney leftist when you have a problem with CNN.
#8
If the death wish is a revelation to Moore then he is living in a bubble. Probably true since he travels with security guards in private aircraft etc. He is now one of the elites and so does not understand the feelings of the common man. Other than hunger. That he does understand.
Posted by: remote man ||
07/27/2004 18:59 Comments ||
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How much will we be paying come the Labor Day weekend?
By Kevin Morrison
Published: July 27 2004 11:17 | Last Updated: July 27th 2004 20:19
Crude oil futures on Tuesday moved within striking distance of the record highs reached last month as the tighter balance between supply and demand helped push prices higher.
September Nymex WTI peaked at $42.22 a barrel, or just 23 cents below its peak reached on June 2, before settling at $41.84, a gain of 40 cents in New York.
IPE Brent for September delivery added 43 cents to $38.54 a barrel in late London trade, down from its intra-day peak of $38.68 a barrel, but still within sight of the 13œ year high of $39.12.
The head of one oil trading desk in London said that prices had been rising gradually over the past two weeks in anticipation that the expected increase in demand in the third quarter from the previous quarter would lead to a tightening of supply as global oil production struggled to keep pace with increased levels of consumption.
"There have been no sudden sharp spikes in prices to get back to $42. This rise has been slower and looks more sustained than the previous moves to this level," said the oil trader.
The gains in the oil price came ahead of today's release of the weekly US commercial crude inventories, which are expected to show a fall in crude and gasoline inventories.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/27/2004 8:16:42 PM ||
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The Law of Supply and Demand should be modified to help those who drive more than 10 miles a day and have an adjusted income (excluding long term gaines) of 12000 dollars per annum.
I guess you could say that the war was a waste of time, if you dislike the American way of life enough to see it destroyed, or you enjoy watching hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children being slaughtered simply because of their ethnic heritage or religious affiliation.
Does that answer your question? I know it sounds harsh, but it's the truth, and I'll tell you why, though I warn you that brevity is not one of my strong points.
There are a few different themes worth addressing here, and don't you worry,I'll get to all of them.
Was the war justified? Well, the current administration gave us three good reasons for going to war with Iraq (again), the only mistake that they made was focusing on the wrong one. Granted, this was thanks very much to the majority of the media, whose obviously antiwar coverage directed the public
attention towards the one reason that didn't produce immediate results: WMD.
Now, even that platform is slowly eroding from underneath them. It seems like every week we are finding artillery shells and ballistic missiles with a cornucopia of chemical agents hidden in the payloads, and now even Joseph Wilson, the champion of the "Iraq has no nuclear programs" cause, has been
completely discredited and is now facing a criminal investigation following confirmed reports emerging that Iraq indeed was trying to purchase Uranium from African countries, and he might even have known about it.
But even if all of that isn't enough for you to believe that our very way of life may have been at stake, just think-that is the very least of the reasons we went to Iraq.
Any individual who chooses to crawl from the depths of typical American ignorance and crack a newspaper or a magazine knows that the former regime had ties to terrorism, and indeed terrorized their own people. These are the other two reasons we went to war, because of Iraqi support for terrorist groups and, most importantly the gruesome brutality and macabre severity with which he treated his own people.
Let me hit the terrorist thing first.
According to the Council on Foreign Relations, Iraq was most definitely an active supporter of terrorist groups. Although the ties between Iraq, al Qaeda, and other radical Islamic terror groups remain sinuous and tender at best, his support of leftist groups similar to his own Baath party is
undisputed. His regime provided bases, training camps and monetary support to Turkish, Iranian, and Palestinian terror groups and harbored terrorists like Abu Nidal, Abu Abbas, and Abdul Rahman Yasin. If you don't think that the former regime supported terror, then you are quite simply uninformed.
But the most important reason, the reason that sets this war apart from wars of aggression and imperialism, is the fact that for 30 years, the United Nations has sat back and watched Saddam and his police state commit mass murder in the name of ethnic cleansing.
I'd like to believe that if Mr. Bush had focused on this one, public opinion might have swayed in his favor. Unfortunately, the cynic/realist inside of me says that the average American
is too self-absorbed to care about hundreds of thousands of people being killed half-a-world away. It's that attitude of apathy, tolerance, and isolationism that helped contribute to the holocaust. I believe, with all of my heart, that it is our duty, our responsibility as the worlds only remaining true superpower, to protect the welfare of those people.
I knew what I was doing when I signed up, and I knew what I was doing was right, but it wasn't until I got to Iraq and was stationed in the predominantly Shiia south and had a chance to hear it firsthand, from the people who had survived his tyrannical rule, that I truly understood why we were fighting.
Until you see the widows and the orphans, the amputees, the mass graves, the cautious optimism that now beams from eyes too-long clouded by fear could you ever possibly understand.
So it comes down to this, if you believe that avenging the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocents is a waste of time, or saving the lives of countless others is a waste of time, or preserving our way of life for ourselves and our children is a waste of time, or holding a mass-murderer
accountable for his horrific crimes is a waste of time than the answer is yes, it was a waste.
If, however, you take the time to look past the pathetic news coverage that creates controversy to sell adspace, and past
your own selfish concerns, and past the sacrifices that had to be made, and see for yourself the good that was accomplished by our actions, you'll see that the war wasn't only justified, it was necessary.
Posted by: Jaman ||
07/27/2004 10:43:19 AM ||
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I would rather see my tax dollars used to free others than have them flushed down the toilet through "entitlement" spending and needless pork projects in West Virginia.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 16:32 Comments ||
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#2
SH, Dont forget the U.N. That is a moneyhole if every I've seen one.
#3
I just read the transcript of the O'Reilly - Moore interview. I wish a soldier like this could tak on Michael Moore. Unfortunately O'Reilly caves on the WMD issue. Too bad. I guess the shells that we have found just don't count.
Posted by: remote man ||
07/27/2004 18:37 Comments ||
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Hat tip: Michelle Malkin Edited for brevity.
Nour Mehana, the "Syrian Wayne Newton," has finally hit the big time. After days of fevered speculation, Mehana has been outed as the mysterious Syrian music-maker who, along with his band, set Northwest Airlines Flight 327 into a
tizzy over a feared terrorist "dry run." For many, this discovery was a massive relief. In fact, one look at Mehana's publicity photos set many minds at ease. This man, a terrorist? A man who sings with a goofy Syrian band, plays in shady casinos, and has a cheesy porn-style mustache? That silly woman Annie Jacobsen! Aren't we all so silly
and paranoid? Mr. Mehana has a nice little song on his recent CD, by the way. It's called "Um El Shaheed." In English, that's "Mother of a Martyr."
"Mother of a Martyr" glorifies the death of a young Palestinian. Mehana sings to a grieving mother that she should not be sad, because her son, who died as a martyr, is a hero. She should be happy that her son is gone, Mehana croons,
because freeing Palestine and the Golan Heights are heroic goals. The song, which starts slow and solemn, ends with a triumphant chorus, celebrating the martyr's glorious death: "Allahu Akbar...Allahu Akbar...Allahu Akbar!" Feel better? Somehow, after "Mother of a Martyr," that Wayne Newton porn-style mustache becomes slightly less comforting. Hey, is anyone ready to jump onto a plane with Mr. Mehana and his wacky band? Yes, but can they play "The Chicken Dance"?!
Posted by: Dar ||
07/27/2004 1:56:50 PM ||
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Mehana sings to a grieving mother that she should not be sad, because her son, who died as a martyr, is a hero. She should be happy that her son is gone, Mehana croons,
because freeing Palestine and the Golan Heights are heroic goals.
How sickening that Palestinian mothers succumb to societal/political pressure to believe this crappola. Since their community won't tolerate mothers of suicide bombers showing sadness, the mothers put on a show of bravado, but alone, the facade falls, and I am sure they are devastated by the deaths. And I think on some level they know, after so many years of suicide bombings, that their sons' deaths will never result in such "heroic goals".
#2
Dar, Aris is ready and would jump on that plane after calling us all a bunch of paranoid rascists!
(but then he drinks too much retsina in the noonday sun, too.)
#3
Whether the band was for real is immaterial, the American passangers who perceived that a "dry run" was in progress yet did nothing to disrupt it made a mistake. Awaiting for the PC-handcuffed crew to take action is un-American. Passangers should have demanded that the bathroom shennanigans be ended immediately.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 16:47 Comments ||
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#4
Another way would have been to demand that the band play the extended version of Free Bird or be forced out of the cabin door.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 22:35 Comments ||
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Almost all of the Syrian musicians who were questioned by law-enforcement officials after exhibiting suspicious behavior aboard a Northwest Airlines flight were traveling on expired visas. The 14 men in the band were questioned by several agencies that make up the Joint Terrorism Task Force after the pilot aboard Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles on June 29 radioed for law-enforcement assistance. A spokesman for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) confirmed that 13 of the 14 musicians entered the country May 30 and the visas expired June 10, but the men were not detained. The 14th musician is a U.S. resident and citizen...
Similar activity was reported by flight attendants on American Airlines Flight 1732 from San Juan, Puerto Rico, on Feb. 15 to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport. The six men involved worked for a cruise ship and were carrying musician's cases with instruments...
The Jacobsens have become the subject of ridicule on some blogs and criticized in one media report by an unnamed government source, but the Federal Air Marshals Association (FAMA) issued a statement Sunday backing the family. FAMA also called on the government to release the recording of the pilot's call to air traffic control for law-enforcement assistance. The unnamed source suggested Mrs. Jacobsen was hysterical and was the reason that law-enforcement officials were called to the airport. Pilots and marshals say the flight crew and onboard marshals were obviously concerned and the Joint Terrorism Task Force would not be deployed in routine cases of upset or unruly passengers. "Dealing with upset plane passengers is not exactly new," the pilot said. The second air marshal said the Jacobsens did exactly what President Bush and Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge have asked U.S. citizens to do: Be vigilant and report suspicious behavior. It appears the idiot Syrians were "just musicians", but their behavior was odd enough to warrant the pilot calling for law enforcement to meet them at the gate. Oh, and similar behavior happened on another flight. But, hey, it's just "racist paranoia" to notice it.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/27/2004 8:22:53 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
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#1
To all you moonbats out there, this is an example of how being PC could possibly get you killed. But that's ok so long as you don't hurt anyone's feelings.
I for one would have taken Misha's advice and told them to try and pull something or sit the F**k down.
#3
Me too... f*ck pc - it's a major achilles heel. If arabs bug you on a flight then tell them the score - sit down and shut up or get knocked out. I sense the liberals will only wake up when the remains of their relatives are being scooped into a sandwich bag.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/27/2004 10:33 Comments ||
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#4
A question:
Why is it that we, as Americans, are expected to follow and respect the customs and culture of foreign countries that we might visit, lest we be seen to be "Ugly Americans", while the customs and culture of people that come here to either visit or take up residence are to be respected, lest we be considered "insensitive"?
#5
BAR -- because, silly, the US has neither culture nor customs!
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/27/2004 10:49 Comments ||
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#6
Sounds like a pretty good cover to me. Fly all over the country, in relatively large groups, to predominantly Muslim areas. Travelling Imam is a bit to obvious these days.
#7
According to the 911 Commission, the enemy is radical Islam- period! Of course there are some blond haire white guys doing that trip also but mostly they are Pakis, Arabs, Moors etc. So racial profiling is paramount and so is citizen viligence of the highest order. I went back to look at the 19 nut jobs of 911 and they all were dark complected, dark hair and Arab looking. Why shouldn't I be interested in a group of them acting suspicious on an airplane I am on. Only guys like Kerry would nuance this to death - then it would be his own and the others on board!
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
07/27/2004 12:44 Comments ||
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#8
The Jacobsens have become the subject of ridicule on some blogs and criticized in one media report by an unnamed government source, but the Federal Air Marshals Association (FAMA) issued a statement Sunday backing the family. FAMA also called on the government to release the recording of the pilotâs call to air traffic control for law-enforcement assistance...Pilots and marshals say the flight crew and onboard marshals were obviously concerned and the Joint Terrorism Task Force would not be deployed in routine cases of upset or unruly passengers...
So much for Aris's argument that Anne Jacobsen was an hysterical racist and implying that anyone who emphathized with Annie's concerns was KKK material.
This also debunks the "nay sayers'" argument that the air marshalls disagreed with Annie's evaluation of the situation - wrongo- FAMA supports her 100%. It was the infamous "un-named" gov't source [ie. perhaps an Homeland Security PC flunkie who tried to defuse bad PR for airlinies??] who called Annie's credibility into question.
As others have said on another thread, Syria is running a proxy war against our GI's in Iraq, so why hasn't State Dept. put a moratorium on Syrian nationals travelling into the USA? In fact, I recall not so long ago [does someone else remember this as well?]that the Prez and Congress decided to implement some resolution against Syria, which btw had been in the pipeline since Slick Willy's days, because of Syria's involvement in Iraq? What happened to all that Congressional "tough posturing" against Syria?
Can any of you imagine what would have happened to 14 blonde blue eyed Caucasian males pulling this kind of stunt on a jetliner, even at the most innocent level of hi-jinx? They would have got their butts kicked into their seats pronto by the air marshalls on board and furthermore they would ikely have been fined for causing a distraction and hazard to the pilots and stewardesses and passengers.End of story.
Posted by: rex ||
07/27/2004 13:05 Comments ||
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#10
Check out the article about Nour Mehana, the Syrian American Wayne Newton who imported the 14 aforementioned Syrian band members, posted on page 2 today entitled:"The Notorious Syrian Band--Singing of Peace, Love, and Martyrdom"
One of Mehana's songs on a recent CD is entitled "Mother of Martyr." No doubt Homeland Security has checked out Mehana and given him their PC seal of approval...can't you hear them chatting over the water cooler: "a creative person who is merely exercising artistic free speech"...like what the sensitive, open minded gov't offical surmised about Mohammed Atta[from the article link]: Johnelle Bryant, an official with the U.S. Department of Agriculture, met up with Mohammed Atta several times before September 11. After Atta threatened to slit her throat, talked about blowing up major United States cities and landmarks,and came back to her in a disguise pretending to be someone else, Ms. Bryant had this to say: "I felt that he was trying to make the cultural leap from the country that he came from. I was attempting,in every manner I could,to help him make his relocation into our country as easy for him as I could."
Posted by: rex ||
07/27/2004 14:20 Comments ||
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#11
I don't know much about music but, but I will say that The Travelling Imams is a pretty good name for a band.
Posted by: Col Flagg ||
07/27/2004 14:26 Comments ||
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#12
Great stuff, rex!
And do we have to add for Ms. Johnelle on Atta,
"Besides, I thought he was cute and he made me feel pretty!"?
#14
Anybody got a link to the Federal Air Marshals Asociation statement?
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
07/27/2004 14:40 Comments ||
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#15
MD: Anybody got a link to the Federal Air Marshals Asociation statement?
I don't think they have a web site. But this is a news article, not somebody's opinion of what they said.
As I've written elsewhere, from a terror recruiter's perspective, flight student-quality people are a lot harder to find than musician-quality people, given that it takes a lot to learn to fly a jumbo jet - they do get six figure incomes. There's nothing particularly surprising about musicians being recruited for terror attacks, much less trial runs for the real operatives.
#16
#8As others have said on another thread, Syria is running a proxy war against our GI's in Iraq, so why hasn't State Dept. put a moratorium on Syrian nationals travelling into the USA? In fact, I recall not so long ago [does someone else remember this as well?]that the Prez and Congress decided to implement some resolution against Syria, which btw had been in the pipeline since Slick Willy's days, because of Syria's involvement in Iraq? What happened to all that Congressional "tough posturing" against Syria?
Excellent point, rex. This is the most important question of all. Why hasn't the government put in place comprehensive screening for arrivals from ALL nations known to be harboring or sponsoring terrorists?
Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan ... the list goes on. If an able bodied person within the correct age range from any of these countries seeks admittance into America, they should be subjected to thorough scrutiny. No profiling, JUST 100% SCREENING.
Plus, this "expired visa" bullsh!t has got to end. If you attempt to enter or exit this country without you paperwork ducklings in a neat row, be prepared for the full mug shot, fingerprinting, cavity search and miss-your-flight-while-we-clean-your-clock routine.
#18
But, hey, itâs just "racist paranoia" to notice it.
Read Jacobsen's own words, kiddo. She was terrified of them before she noticed anything "suspicious" at all -- even if we accept all her words as accurate descriptions of what actually happened. And when security cleared them after the fact, she still stuck implying they were terrorists. Nobody noticed this in the above article: "Everything that we and other agencies have found indicates, and we are very confident in saying, these individuals were not terrorists by any means," Mr. Boyd said. "
Bingo.
My calling her a paranoid racist stands. I'm not attacking the air marshalls who were worried for supposed suspicious behavious. I'm not attacking the pilots who called for aid. I'm attacking the ones who keep on calling the musicians "terrorists" even after the fact of them being cleared.
And as a sidenote I very much doubt that FAMA's as yet unknown "backing" of Jacobsen includes supporting all the implications of cowardice and incompetence that Jacobsen herself and people in this forum made against the same Air Marshalls.
And as a further sidenote, I doubt that terrorist having a year's visa would *truly* require to overstay their visits by a month before they cause mischief. This article itself says that out of the 19 hijackers of 9/11 only 3 of them had expired visas.
#19
"This article itself says that out of the 19 hijackers of 9/11 only 3 of them had expired visas."
You just blew up your own argument, Krapsaris!
No one had any more (and a lot less) reason to think that the 19 hijackers of 9/11 were "terrorists" either, unless one took into account that all of these men, Syrian "band" members included, are/were swarthy-skinned, dark-haired, dark-eyed, from Middle Eastern countries and Muslim, meaning that they adhere to the use of murder and violence against non-Muslims to take over the world for Islam.
Let the racial profiling begin.
Call me a paranoid racist all you want, but I will be a LIVING paranoid rascist!
(And being opposed to Muslims, especially jihadi Muslims, isn't rascism anyway! Being a member of a politico-religious system isn't a race!)
#21
Read Jacobsen's own words, kiddo. She was terrified of them before she noticed anything "suspicious" at all
You're lying, Aris. I just re-read her article, and that's not what she says at all. Just the opposite, in fact.
And when security cleared them after the fact, she still stuck implying they were terrorists.
Another lie. Again, I just re-read the article, and she did nothing of the sort.
Maybe you're once more confusing Jacobsen's story with another one you read? Yeah, that must be it. It can't be that you're wrong; you're Aris -- you're never wrong. Or maybe you never read Jacobsen's article, and are going with what you THINK it said.
My calling her a paranoid racist stands.
Of course it does, Aris.
I'm attacking the ones who keep on calling the musicians "terrorists" even after the fact of them being cleared.
Strawman. The point isn't that they were terrorists, but that they could have been. I'm sure you remember that similar suspicious behavior by the 9/11 hijackers before 9/11 was spotted -- and reported! This is part of what people need to be aware of, because awareness and vigilance may just save thousands of lives.
And as a sidenote I very much doubt that FAMA's as yet unknown "backing" of Jacobsen includes supporting all the implications of cowardice and incompetence that Jacobsen herself and people in this forum made against the same Air Marshalls.
Strawman, lie, or simply another bit of evidence that you never read Jacobsen's article. No where in Jacobsen's article does she even imply cowardice or incompetence on the part of Air Marshalls. Are you SURE you read Jacobsen's article? I'm beginning to think you haven't, or that you've let it run together with your fantasy version of what she wrote.
You're pretty desperate, Aris. Almost as if you know you've run out on a limb and had it sawed off behind you, but you haven't the class to admit it.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/27/2004 18:04 Comments ||
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#22
And when are you going to grow out of the kindergarten insults?
Pot. Kettle.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/27/2004 18:05 Comments ||
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#23
The point isn't that they were terrorists, but that they could have been.
If that's the "point", then there'd be no dispute. Because I've already *agreed* that they *could* have been. When I said it was good that the air marshals kept an eye out on them and on the lavatories in question.
No, the problem is that Jen and others, including Jacobsen keep on insisting and implying that they *are* terrorists, regardless of lack of evidence to the same.
I'm mostly ignoring the rest of your babble. But isn't e.g. this sentence "Since the FBI issued a warning to the airline industry to be wary of groups of five men on a plane who might be trying to build bombs in the bathroom, shouldn't a group of 14 Middle Eastern men be screened before boarding a flight? " an accusation of incompetence? Isn't "No one checked the passports of the Syrian men. No one inspected the contents of the two instrument cases or the McDonald's bag. And no one checked the limping man's orthopedic shoe. " also accusations of incompetence?
"I asked Adams why, based on the FBI's credible information that terrorists may try to assemble bombs on planes, the air marshals or the flight attendants didn't do anything about the bizarre behavior and frequent trips to the lavatory. "
Aren't these also implications of incompetence?
It's Jen who implied cowardice ofcourse, not Jacobsen. And as for being terrified even before anything suspicious happened, Jacobsen herself says how nervous she got after Middle-eastern men were greeting each other by head-gestures when first seeing each other. If you call that suspicious behaviour, then you are right she was only being scared after such suspicious behaviour. Me who don't consider it even approaching "suspicious", think she was just being racist.
#24
And when are you going to grow out of the kindergarten insults? Pot. Kettle.
Aren't you the person who called me a "cunt", then when I chose to ignore it, decided to keep on pestering me with the same word the next day in different threads, until I responded to it? Want the link of *those* threads, also, to have others judge our relative maturity?
And isn't Jen the person who wastes her time finding different ways to mock my name?
Kindergarten bullies, both of you, using kindergarten tactics.
#25
Robert, you RULE!
On my own behalf and that my fellow Americans, thank you! :-)
Aris, give it up, you propagandist moron!
The Syrian "band's" biggest hit just happens to be "Mother of a Martyr," about a Paleostinian suicide bomber?
Got ya, didn't I? You've been creatively embellishing your recollection of Jacobsen's article.
Aris, how many of the things you think are accusations of incompetence actually apply to the Air Marshalls? Only the last deals with them, and I think you're still reaching to avoid admitting you're wrong.
It could be a cultural difference, of course. Here in the US we don't take questions to automatically be accusations.
Me who don't consider it even approaching "suspicious", think she was just being racist.
Most people consider the accusation of racism to be pretty serious. Apparently you don't, considering how lightly you throw it around.
So how do you feel about Greek police focusing on a Muslim area of Athens out of fear -- no evidence at all, mind you, just the fear -- of a terrorist cell in the area? More racist paranoia, right?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/27/2004 18:40 Comments ||
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#27
Katsi, How is profiling for Arab Muslim males racist?
Why does that differ from normal police profiling of suspects who've been known to commit crimes?
#28
And Aris, what do you care?
You're never coming to this country and none of this will ever be applied to you.
We need to do what we need to do to save our own lives!
3,000 civilians dead is already too many.
#29
You guys should take this somewhere else. Nothing substantive being added to this argument at this point and only wasting Fred's bandwidth.
Posted by: remote man ||
07/27/2004 18:50 Comments ||
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#30
Kindergarten bullies, both of you, using kindergarten tactics.
I'm sorry, Aris. I thought that someone who slung insults and slanders around like you do could take a bit of ribbing.
Pardon me for over-estimating the thickness of your skin.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/27/2004 18:54 Comments ||
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#31
We need to do what we need to do to save our own lives! 3,000 civilians dead is already too many.
I agree with you 1000%. The federal gov't is charged with the responsibility of protecting and defending our security. Profiling of potential terrorists is essential in this day and age of extremist Islamic terrorism. How else does our government tell the difference between a "good" Muslim vistor and a "nasty" Muslim visitor except by closer scrutiny? Visitors are allowed into our country at our convenience.
Here's a link to a gov't discussion of this very topic...notice the usual suspects[ACLU lawyers] who argue against profiling... http://www.house.gov/transportation/press/press2002/release195.html
âWhile most of the American public that has flown since September 11th have been willing to put up with delays, personal searches and increased security procedures, we need to carefully examine alternative screening measures for the future,â said U.S. Rep. John Mica (R-FL), the Chairman of the Subcommittee. âWe continue to hear complaints about the passengers who seem to get selected for additional screening and some of those selected make no sense. âSecurity experts tell us that we should focus more on people and less on things. âOur current profiling system is based on a computer program that was developed several years ago. The Justice Department has reviewed this program and concluded that it does not discriminate on the basis of race, religion, or national origin. However, as far as I know, nobody has looked at this program recently to determine whether it makes any sense. âI believe profiling, properly done, can enhance aviation security. But I am concerned that, as currently employed, it is undermining public confidence in our security system.â
...Rafi Ron, the former chief in charge of security in the Israeli Airport Authority, outlined some historical background the hijacking and terrorists problems that led Israel to adopt an aviation security profiling system. âThe answer to this need came in the development of a systematic, real time, investigation of the passenger profile,â Ron said. âThis well designed procedure allows the security officer to make a decision, based on identifying the level of risk, as to the level of checks to be performed before the passenger is allowed to board the aircraft...Ron said the profiling method has been âvery successful for the last 32 years by the state of Israel.â...Ron added that 100 percent baggage screening, while of paramount importance, âcannot prevent the September 11th type attack.â âThe missing element is the human factor and without relating to it we leave the room for future attacks,â Ron said
...Prof. Jonathan Turley, law professor at George Washington University Law School and the Maurice C. Shapiro Chair for Public Interest Law, told the Subcommittee that the issue of profiling was âso heavily laden with deep societal conflicts that it is often difficult to hold a meaningful conversation about the merits and dangers of profiling.â...âIt has been said that the United States Constitution is not a suicide pact,â Turley said. âWhile protecting core liberties, it is a document that also allows for the accommodation of transient government needs or exigent circumstance.â...Turley added:âProfiling may be an inevitable response to the dangers evident at airports. Every month, over 40 million people travel by air in this country. It is simply practically impossible to closely scrutinize every passenger while maintaining a functioning air travel system...As a result, airlines must make choices and select which passengers to subject to closer scrutiny.â âDue to the erroneous inclination of the public to consider âprofilingâ and âracial profilingâ as synonymous, there has been an unwillingness of airlines to implement any formal profiling systems. Instead, the primary identification process remains the random selection process.â ...Turley said the odds of randomly selecting a terrorist were about equal to the 41-million-to-one odds of winning the California lottery.
Posted by: rex ||
07/27/2004 19:16 Comments ||
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#32
"You've been creatively embellishing your recollection of Jacobsen's article."
Yeah, all those direct quotes are just my creative embellishment.
"Aris, how many of the things you think are accusations of incompetence actually apply to the Air Marshalls? "
One. From Jacobsen. Do I need any more to say that she accused them of incompetence? Now Jen ofcourse accused them multiple times.
"Here in the US we don't take questions to automatically be accusations. "
Perhaps there in the US you must learn to occasionally read between the lines. Sometimes questions *are* accusations.
"How is profiling for Arab Muslim males racist? "
Never said it was. In fact I have explicitely said that I've NOT argued either in favour nor against profiling. I've offered no opinion on profiling in general. Because I don't think that an opinion can be offered without knowing the specifics of each kind of "profiling".
But you keep on ignoring that, same way you ignore everything that challenges your moronic assumptions about me.
"Most people consider the accusation of racism to be pretty serious. "
So is the accusation of terrorism.
"So how do you feel about Greek police focusing on a Muslim area of Athens out of fear -- no evidence at all, mind you, just the fear -- of a terrorist cell in the area? More racist paranoia, right?"
No, that's simply profiling, not racist paranoia. Racist paranoia would have been if a person insisted that simply keeping an eye on the area (rather than e.g. imposing martial law) is cowardly inaction showing that the state is incapable and unwilling of protecting its citizens.
And Jen dearie, a person could create a song called "Osama bin Laden" and it'd mean nothing by itself. The *content* of the song would be more interesting to know than its title.
#33
Those weren't direct quotes of Mrs. Jacobsen's, Aris.
Not even close. Robert is right: you haven't even read her account.
And I have no idea what you're babbling about now, but I do wish you'd quit.
Why post on an American board when you don't know the first thing about Americans or America?
#35
#10 (Rex): Johnelle Bryant, an official with the U.S. Department of Agriculture, met up with Mohammed Atta several times before September 11.
Rex, Johnelle Bryant is not credible. Do an internet search on her name, and you'll find many articles and discussions poking holes in her story. She's a fabricator.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/27/2004 22:52 Comments ||
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#36
My grasp of the facts is fine, thank you!
And I've linked Mrs. Jacobsen's account on my blog and she says *none* of what you alleged!
Aris is, again, making things up out of whole cloth.
And your little "anology" about Osama songs notwithstanding, the point I was making about you're not being American is that you won't have to live with profiling or not profiling on our planes, but we all do, so that's why your commentary is meaningless on this topic.
Your life isn't at risk. Ours are.
And you still haven't stated why profiling Arab Muslim males is racist because you know it isn't.
It's simple criminal profiling: here are the crimes, these are the suspects.
#38
I googled the name Johnelle Bryant, #35, and the first hit I got was an ABC interview with the lady. She exists and her words as written in the article I quoted from in my #10 post is almost word for word from her interview with ABC. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/ross_bryant020606.html ...âHow Could I Have Known?â
Bryant never thought to report her strange encounter because she thought she was just helping a new immigrant learn about the country.
"I felt that he was trying to make the cultural leap from the country that he came from, with all the violence, as compared to the United States," she says. "I was attempting, in every manner I could, to help him make his relocation into our country as easy for him as I could make it."
His questions about American cities, she assumed, were because he had moved to a new country and he wanted to find out about the major cities...
Posted by: rex ||
07/27/2004 23:52 Comments ||
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#39
Mike Sylwester: Rex, Johnelle Bryant is not credible. Do an internet search on her name, and you'll find many articles and discussions poking holes in her story. She's a fabricator.
The sites poking holes in her story fall into several categories - 9/11 deniers, Islamists and anti-war activists - not that any of these categories are mutually exclusive. The criticism focuses on the fact that Bryant interviewed Atta a month before he was supposed to have arrived in-country. Genuine false passports aren't too difficult to obtain, so Muhammad Atta may have flown in with a different passport under a different name. It only takes 8 hours to fly from Prague to New York.
My conclusion is that we don't know one way or another. Did she make it up? Don't know. Without tape, we'll never be sure. What is definitely in her favor is that she took notes - as I'm sure she has to, given that her whole job is to deal with loan applicants - and the guy spelled his name out.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/28/2004 1:06 Comments ||
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#41
rex, I'll never forget reading that interview with Bryant in 2002 because Atta talked about Dallas and Texas Stadium and the Dallas Cowboys as a potential target.
He also kept telling Bryant that she was "but a woman."
If ever there were a case when someone should have picked up the phone and called Security, that was it!
Aris, you either can't read in English or have total reading comprehension failure!
Jacobsen didn't say the things you said she said. So no apology!
And you said that profiling was both "paranoid and racist" and the quotes are yours.
In that the Association of Air Marshals backed up Jacobsen, i hardly find her account either hysterical or paranoid.
Stay in Greece, drink your retsina and leave us alone to defend the entire Civilized World!
#42
Zhang, Atta "lost" his passport and got the German government to issue him a new one, thus covering his trips to places like Prague and Afghanistan.
IIRC, he had multiple aliases, too, as did most of the 9/11 hijackers.
The first WTC bombers of 1993 all have passports from Kuwait, but the thinking is that they were Iraqis who got them when Saddam invaded Kuwait.
Check out Laurie Mylroie's fine book for more detail.
Clearly, that moron Johnelle could have had Atta arrested as a "person of interest" for threats against the US terror and as I think that Atta was the mastermind and leader, it might have stopped the 9/11 attacks right there.
How horrible for all of us that it didn't.
#43
"And you said that profiling was both "paranoid and racist"
No, I didn't. YOU LIE, Jen. You simply LIE. If you weren't LYING, you would have been able to provide a single quote of me saying "Profiling is paranoid and racist" instead of what I actually said, namely that YOU (and Jacobsen) are paranoid and racist.
So, let me repeat it Jen, in order to make it clear once and for all. Profiling isn't paranoid. It's YOU who are paranoid (and a liar). Profiling isn't always racist. It's YOU who are racist (and a liar).
And as for the quote, the quotes are there, in the exact links I gave you above, in the article written by Annie Jacobsen, speaking in Annie Jacobsen's voice, for everyone to see. You keep on brazenly LYING, Jen, as if you think that the sheer weight of your LIES will turn them into truth. You've really learned your lesson from Goebbels.
Robert Crawford, tell me, given the links I provided, do you also agree with Jen that Jacobsen never wrote the quotes I quoted? I want to see whether you'll also prove yourself an insane liar like Jen.
#44
Jen: Zhang, Atta "lost" his passport and got the German government to issue him a new one, thus covering his trips to places like Prague and Afghanistan.
IIRC, he had multiple aliases, too, as did most of the 9/11 hijackers.
Thanks for verifying that. I think the people talking about passport stamps don't want to acknowledge that fake, but real, travel documents do exist, and that cellphone call usage doesn't mean that a person is in-country at the time the usage occurs.
#45
Robert Crawford, tell me, given the links I provided, do you also agree with Jen that Jacobsen never wrote the quotes I quoted?
Yes, she wrote them. But before you started quoting her, you were mis-stating what she said. You started quoting Jacobsen only AFTER I pointed out your mis-statements.
But, hey, Aris, you've certainly learned your lesson from Goebbels.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/28/2004 9:59 Comments ||
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#46
But before you started quoting her, you were mis-stating what she said
Where? When you yourself proved yourself an ignorant idiot when you said (#21) "No where in Jacobsen's article does she even imply cowardice or incompetence on the part of Air Marshalls."
and then I provided you the direct quote where she so implies it?
When you accused me of lying because she supposedly *didn't* keep on implying that this band were terrorists? Yeah, it's only you in the whole fucking internet who has this truly bizarre understanding of Jacobsen's words when she comments on terrorists being able to learn musical instruments and she's talking about dry runs. And it's ofcourse me whom you accused of not reading "the article", when ofcourse it's you who read just a bare synopsis of the thing.
"And when security cleared them after the fact, she still stuck implying they were terrorists." Another lie. Again, I just re-read the article, and she did nothing of the sort.
You fucking asshole. I pay more attention with the facts and am more interested in the truth than all the moronic bunch of you put together -- and when I occasionally make a mistake I freely admit it.
But when you are confronted with someone who's so much a rabid liar as Jen that even *you* can't support her lies with a straight face, it's ofcourse *me*, rather than her, whom you repeatedly accuse of lying.
#47
I don't lie--I don't have to.
Neither does Mrs. Jacobsen.
Calling your opponent a liar over and over as an excuse for an argument is a pathetic mode of discourse.
Have you thought about moving to the USA and running for office as a Democrat, Aris?
#48
Aris, I was unaware I had any responsibility for what Jen writes.
As for the rest of your babble -- what's the point? You've outfitted Jacoben with her white robe and peaked hat, and won't consider the possibility you're mistaken.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/28/2004 13:23 Comments ||
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#49
You have responsibility for your attitude and for your hypocricy. You see who the obvious liar of this thread is, but it's me that you brand with the accusation of lying. Very nice, Crawford.
And whether I will consider "possibilities" or not is quite beside the point when I'm arguing with people that accuse me of lying when I speak of plain facts, let alone opinions. Even if you'd considered my interpretation of Jacobsen's words to be wrong when I said she was implying incompetence on the Air Marshalls' part, how would that differing interpretation make me a "liar"?
Slanderer. Bastard. Asshole.
There's no point in "considering possibilities" when I'm being called a liar when I state any opinion other than the one you like.
And there's no point in even further discussing Jen. She needs psychiatric treatment: Brandishing the exact quotes infront of her, she still denied their existence. She may not be a liar, she may simply be certifiably insane -- that's the only other possibility.
#1
"The blunt language used by the Arabs describing their opposition, and their plans to use diplomatic means to prevent the resolution from reaching a vote, shocked the Europeans, said a UN source."
We have to kill Joooos! We live to kill Joooos! Without that, what are we good for? Oops, I mean, uh, um, er, nevermind...
"A senior Western diplomat said that among the Arabs who spoke with the Europeans was PLO observer Nasser al Kidwe [who] attacked the content of UN Secretary general Koffi Annan's speech to the seminar last month, particularly Annan's pride in the cancelation of the 1975 Zionism equals racism resolution."
But it does! Really! Stupid kafr, Kofi!
BTW, everyone here is aware of the fact that Arabs are Semites, too, right? 'Tis true.
Several months before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, it appears, the Iranian-sponsored terrorist organization Hezbollah was shadowing three of the hijackers as they flew from Saudi Arabia to Lebanon and onward to Iran. Could Iran have had an inkling of the pending disaster?
Probably not, concludes the 9/11 commission in its final report yesterday. But it details a web of circumstantial evidence suggesting that the arrival and departure of three hijackers in November 2000 was of keen interest to Hezbollah and urges "further investigation by the U.S. Government." "Hezbollah officials in Beirut and Iran were expecting the arrival of a group during the same time period," says the commission document, citing three intelligence reports prepared shortly after the attacks. "The travel of this group was important enough to merit the attention of senior figures in Hezbollah."
The intelligence reports apparently do not identify the group that so interested Hezbollah, but the commission concludes that it would be a "remarkable coincidence" if it was not the future hijackers. In addition, the commission noted, an associate of a "senior Hezbollah operative" was on the same Beirut-to-Tehran flight as the three al-Qaida hijackers.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/27/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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If true it may be they were just keeping a eye on them while they transited what Iran and Hezbollah consider "their turf". While they may have provided some support to al-Qaeda, there's still the whole Sunni - Shite conflict to remember. It would be like one of the New York crime families passing through Al Capones Chicago. You'd have to ask permission and you'd be watched every minute.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/27/2004 8:44 Comments ||
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Israel's Arrow missile interceptor will soon be put to the test when it is launched against a real incoming Scud missile at a naval base in California. The Arrow, manufactured by Israel Aircraft Industries and co-funded by the United States, has previously shot down "dummy" Scuds and computer simulations.
At a time when Israel is no longer endangered by an Iraqi missile threat, it is unclear if the Arrow interceptors will prove effective against Iran's long-range Shahab-3 missiles. A security official told Army Radio today that the Arrow was untested against the incoming angle of missiles fired at Israel from such a distance. Iran yesterday threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" if Israel or the United States launched an attack on the country's nuclear facilities.
Ahead of this week's test, an Arrow missile battery was provided by Israel to the United States. An American army unit will launch an unarmed Scud missile, captured during the Gulf War, and Israel's Green Pine radar system will attempt to track its trajectory. The Arrow interceptors will be fired at the appropriate time by computer command, with the goal of blasting the incoming missile over the ocean.
Security officials, speaking on Channel One television yesterday, dismissed suggestions that the Arrow test was a warning signal to Syria and Iran. "These tests are planned many years in advance. There is no connection between them and current developments," one official said.
A successful test this week will prove that "the Arrow can protect the State of Israel from ground-to-ground missiles that already exist, and from those that will be developed in the coming years," officials said, quoted in Yediot Aharonot.
If the test proves unsuccessful, however, planners will have many months of corrections, adjustments and recalculations ahead of them, Army Radio reported.
Israel and the United States have invested $2 billion in the Arrow project. Security sources are convinced the Arrow, which can travel at nine times the speed of sound to intercept hostile missiles as far as 50 kilometers from their targets, could intercept any missile fired from Iraq or Iran, including Scuds.
In the 1991 Gulf War, Iraq fired 39 Scuds at Israel causing damage but few casualties. The IDF declared the Arrow system operational in 2000, but it has not been tested in combat situations. Two batteries of Arrow missile interceptors are already operational at Ein Shemer and Palmahim in Israel.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/27/2004 9:06:37 PM ||
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The link is giving "Error 500--Internal Server Error" msgs, so I'll wing it with the info posted...
They certainly had one helluva jump start, thanks to Raytheon's 2nd Generation Patriot... The improved version scores direct hits... I assume the software was a significant "gift" to the Arrow program.
#3
I always thought that the Pac 1 misses were because the original Patriot was designed to destroy aircaft by exploding in the near vicinity of the target.
Regardless, do they need a "test" target for the Scud? What was Barbara's adress again? I think there are even arial photos somewhere on the web that might aid in targetting her bedroom.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 22:27 Comments ||
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To hear Khalid Sheik Mohammed tell it, the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks were nothing compared with what he had in mind. The original plan, which Mohammed says he presented to al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in 1998 or 1999, called for hijacking 10 jetliners on both coasts of the United States and crashing nine of them. The kicker would have been the final plane, which he would commandeer personally. After killing all the men on board, Mohammed would alert the media and deliver a speech excoriating the U.S. government for its support of Israel and repressive Arab regimes. According to the new report from the Sept. 11 commission, the idea is classic KSM -- as Mohammed is referred to in U.S. intelligence reports -- mixing grim nihilism with a flair for the dramatic and always putting Mohammed at the center of things.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/27/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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He also bought Hollywood movies depicting hijackings -- but edited the films to cover up female characters before screening them for al Qaeda trainees
Sexual repression be at the core of this man's ills and the ills of the Muslim world as a whole.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/27/2004 8:48 Comments ||
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#3
Whattsa matter, shithead? Mastermind not good enough for you?
Okay, Super Terrorist. Back in the dunk tank.
Comedian Jackie Mason raised the ire of a controversial Islamic lobby group by calling "the whole Muslim religion" a "murderous organization" that teaches "hate, terrorism and murder." (Truth hurts the enemy)
The remarks came when Mason hosted the Jim Bohannon Show, syndicated nationally by the Westwood One radio network. Mason was elaborating on a comment by his co-author, New York lawyer Raoul Felder, who said Islam "is a religion of hate, this is a religion of murder."
Jackie Mason
The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR, filed a complaint with the FCC and wants Westwood One to apologize.
Mason, according to CAIR, amplified on Felder's "bigotry."
"This is amazing information that almost nobody is aware of ... everyone thinks that it's a legitimate religion that preaches love and brotherhood," said Mason. "The truth of the matter is [that terrorists] are reflecting the religion and following the religion." (Tell it Jackie!)
They are "following the orders of the religion directly from the Quran ... in plain English, the whole Muslim religion is preaching and teaching hate, terrorism and murder, and nobody knows it, and its about time they found out about it, " Mason said.
"The Quran ... is 50 versions of hate, venom, hostility, and murder ... dedicated to terrorism," he added. " ... I don't know how we can call it a religion in the traditional sense. It should be called a murderous organization that's out to kill people."
In a letter to Westwood One, CAIR demanded a public apology to the Muslim community and "an opportunity to refute Mason's Islamophobic smears."
The letter stated: "It is this type of hate-filled propaganda that was used by the Nazis as justification for their persecution of the Jewish community in Germany."
Earlier this year, CAIR announced a campaign "to counter anti-Islamic hate on talk radio," called Hate Hurts America."
CAIR says its campaign is "based on the premise that the increasing attacks on Islam by talk-show hosts harm the United States by creating a downward spiral of interfaith mistrust and hostility."
The campaign includes "step-by-step instructions on how to monitor local and syndicated radio programs, report anti-Muslim hate, file FCC complaints, and contact advertisers to register their concerns."
As WorldNetDaily reported in December, CAIR demanded an apology from legendary radio broadcaster Paul Harvey for saying Islam is a religion that "encourages killing."
A week later, a fill-in host referred to the comment, saying Harvey had received letters from several Muslim friends who "reminded all of us that Islam is a religion of peace, that terrorists do not represent Islam."
WND reported in November radio counselor Dr. Laura Schlessinger refused to apologize as demanded by CAIR, which accused her of launching an "anti-Muslim tirade" on her program.
CAIR took offense to Schlessinger's response to a mother who asked whether her 16-year-old daughter should take part in a Catholic high school class's field trip to a local mosque. The visit was part of a "moral themes" class that aimed to help students learn how "Muslims are treated" in the United States.
Schlessinger told the mother she should tell the teacher "you are willing to go to the mosque only if it is one that has done its best to rout out terrorists in its midst."
CAIR said Schlessinger "crossed the line from legitimate commentary on terrorism to Islamophobic bigotry."
Schlessinger said, in response, "It's absurd that anyone would even imagine that I was expressing disdain for everyone who is a Muslim or who is an Arab. That's even stupid. If anybody has listened to me for any period of time, that's absurd."
CAIR said in 2002 it asked Schlessinger to clarify her claim there is a "Muslim plan" to take over the world, accusing her hostility toward Islam.
However, CAIR itself has helped cast doubt on Muslim groups that purport to be mainstream promoters of peace and tolerance.
CAIR is a spin-off of the Islamic Association For Palestine, or IAF, identified as a "front group" for the terrorist organization Hamas, according to two former heads of the FBI's counterterrorism section.
In April, a member of CAIR's national staff, Randall Todd "Ismail" Royer, pleaded guilty for conspiring to train on American soil for a "violent jihad." Another CAIR figure, Bassem Khafagi, was arrested in 2003 while serving as the group's director of community relations.
CAIR's leaders also have provided evidence for claims Muslims have a plan for domination.
As WorldNetDaily reported, CAIR's chairman of the board, Omar Ahmad, was cited by a California newspaper in 1998 declaring the Quran should be America's highest authority.
He also was reported to have said Islam is not in America to be equal to any other religion but to be dominant.
CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper indicated in a 1993 interview with the Minneapolis Star Tribune that he wants to see the United States become a Muslim country.
"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future," Hooper told the paper. "But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."
In addition, CAIR has sought to convey the impression Muslims are under siege in America. A report released last year, titled "Guilt by Association," blasted the Bush administration for government policies that unfairly single out Muslim individuals and organizations" — a charge denied by the Justice Department.
CAIR claimed when compared to the year preceding Sept. 11, its 2002 report on bias or hate-related incidents against Muslims showed a 64 percent increase.
Justice Department spokesman Jorge Martinez told WorldNetDaily, on the contrary, he saw a vastly improving situation in "backlash" incidents since a "spike" in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/27/2004 10:49:50 PM ||
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As they say, THE FLIPPIN TRUTH HURTS!!!!
Religion of peace = Religion of pieces and parts (of homicide bombings)
#2
CAIR would be better served not to publically debate a commedienne. By doing this they call attention to him and make his comments int a headline. Also Jackie has made his living for a number of years getting his message across effectively. CAIR will lose miserably in this confrontation. Hopefully, they won't realize this and will instead proceed stupidly into the forest of weed-wackers that is the Jackie's tongue.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 23:52 Comments ||
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When an mega-earthquake reduces the 'Doom of the Rock' these guys will still blame Israel, and maybe even Bush as well ..lol
JEDDAH, July 28th, 2004 — Two Saudi-based international Islamic organizations warned yesterday of Muslim anger in the event of an attack on the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem and said any attack on Islam's third holiest shrine could trigger trouble on a large scale.
The Jeddah-based 55-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference and the Makkah-based Muslims World League said Israel would be held responsible for any aggression against the mosque.
"Any strike on Al-Aqsa Mosque will stir feelings of anger among Muslims around the world and lead to trouble on a large scale and unforeseeable serious consequences for peace and security in the world," OIC Secretary-General Abdelouahed Belkeziz said in a statement.
He said the Muslim world would hold the Israeli government responsible for any aggression against the mosque, holiest to Muslims after the Grand Mosque in Makkah and the Prophet's Mosque in Madinah.
Israel's interior minister, Tzahi Hanegbi, warned earlier in the week of a terrorist attack by Jewish extremists on Al-Aqsa Mosque. Israeli police yesterday barred Jews from entering the mosque for fear of unrest.
The OIC was founded in 1969 following an attempt by Jews to destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque by setting fire to the shrine that caused extensive damage to the building. It aims to promote international solidarity among Muslims and political, economic, and social cooperation among its member states.
In Makkah, MWL Secretary-General Abdullah1 Al-Turki warned of a new aggression by Israel to destroy the mosque saying this could result in a "bloody massacre of Muslims" attending the mosque.
He said the statements by the Israeli minister and other officials are an indication that extremist Jewish organizations are planning a large-scale attack on the mosque.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/27/2004 8:56:43 PM ||
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Forgot the headline: Islamic Bodies Warn Against Aqsa Attack
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/27/2004 21:02 Comments ||
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Farting out threats is all these guys can do. "Blow It and They Will Come!?"
There's no point asking sailors aboard the USS Harry S. Truman for some cash. They don't need to have any. The aircraft carrier is among the first wave of cashless ships, with its crew relying instead on debit cards. Everywhere dollars and cents had been used before - from the vending machines on the mess decks to the ship store to the ticket booth at the carrier's recreation department - now takes only plastic. For the past two months, more than 5,000 sailors and Marines carried the debit-only MasterCards at sea. The cards were loaded with cash by crew members, who transferred money from their personal bank accounts by using one of five automated teller machines on board. The Harry S. Truman is one of 24 Navy ships that no longer use cash on board. With the card, sailors at sea can receive pay, access home bank and credit union accounts, transfer and withdraw money, and make purchases.
Posted by: Dar ||
07/27/2004 3:12:14 PM ||
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Sign and sail card. I was on one all last week. The only cash you could unload on the boat was in the casino. The Harry getting one of them too?
#4
Gee, those card will be really useful on shore leave.
(Come to think of it, I suppose that's why they invented blackjacks--for the use of sailors who run short of cash.)
Excerpted from Daily Press Briefing. I speculated to Zenster yesterday that the US would not make friends with MEK especially after the results of encouraging Taliban rule of Afghanistan and then getting torched by Chalabi on several occasions. Here is the "real" scoop:
MR. ERELI: Welcome to our briefing. For those of you who aren't flying to points east, I don't have any announcements and would be happy to take your questions.
QUESTION: Adam, do you know anything about the people's Mujahedin claiming to -- this might be better addressed to the Pentagon -- but claiming to have received protected status as non-combatants in Iraq. They said this on Sunday, apparently.
MR. ERELI: I do have something on that. I believe the U.S. military has confirmed that protected person status has been -- or that the 3,800 members of the MEK that are in Ashraf have been granted protected person status. I would note that this means that an individual who enjoys protected person status is entitled to protections of the Geneva Conventions. There aren't any other connotations to this designation. It's a designation, another important point to make here, it's a designation that applies to individuals and not to groups.
Moving on to the -- but I think the bigger picture is -- and in that sense, there's not a lot of change -- is that the MEK members remain as before limited to Camp Ashraf under multinational force control. The multinational force continues to ensure that the -- that the members of these groups cannot post a threat to individuals inside or outside Iraq. We are working with the international -- with the government of Iraq and international organizations to look at eventual repatriation of these individuals.
QUESTION: Well, I'm not -- I don't understand -- how does this square with the terrorism designation?
MR. ERELI: It's really unrelated to it. It's unrelated to it.
QUESTION: I mean, presumably, if these --
MR. ERELI: The point here is --
QUESTION: Well, presumably, if these people are -- this group is designated as a terrorist organization, that means that its members are, in U.S. eyes, terrorists, correct?
MR. ERELI: Let me -- let me clarify the distinction for you.
QUESTION: And if they are, why are they given -- why have they been given this status, considering that other terrorists have been treated (inaudible) much differently, as enemy noncombatants.
MR. ERELI: This status -- right. This status does not -- their status as protected persons relates to their involvement in an activity as belligerents in the conflict between the coalition and Iraq. So it was determined that they were not belligerents and therefore, as nonbelligerents, fall into this category with respect to the conflict with Iraq.
This does not relate to their membership in a terrorist organization. The MEK continues to be a designated Foreign Terrorist Organization. We will continue to treat its -- treat individuals who can be determined to have been involved in terrorist incidents with the MEK consistent with the laws that apply. And in the case of the MEK members in Camp Ashraf, as you know, there was a vetting process underway to determine who, among those 3,800, might have been involved in terrorist incidents, and once those individuals have been determined, to deal with them as required by law.
So in that sense there's no -- how shall I say? There should be no conflict or confusion between the two issues.
QUESTION: All right. Well, maybe my memory is faulty but I don't -- was the MEK -- were members of the MEK actual belligerents in the war?
MR. ERELI: No, and that's what -- that's what this designation --
QUESTION: So this relates to their status as nonbelligerents?
MR. ERELI: Right. This is what this designation refers to.
QUESTION: When you talk about repatriation, are you trying to get them to go back to Iran?
MR. ERELI: That issue is still being worked on, where they would go is something that has to be settled between the government of Iraq, the MNF and eventual countries of resettlement. But, of course, it has to be voluntary, as consistent with international practice.
QUESTION: And when you're doing the vetting, are you vetting to see which of the people in Ashraf actually belongs to the Mujahedin, or are you just trying to vet what type of crime they have committed as the terrorists that you recognize they are?
MR. ERELI: My understanding is it's the latter.
QUESTION: And Iran says that the fact that you're giving these individuals protected status undermines your claim that you're fighting terrorism because it brings up a bit of contradictions that Matt was --
MR. ERELI: Right, and I tried to clarify those contradictions as saying protected status does not mean we are protecting these people. It means we are according them -- we have determined that they were not belligerents in this conflict, and we are according them the human rights protections as required by the Geneva -- consistent with the Geneva Conventions. When persons are -- when individuals are classified as protected persons, it does not in any way attenuate our actions and holding these people to account for activities that they committed as MEK members that were terrorist in nature.
-snip- OT comments about Phillipines
QUESTION: How are their camps and how are they supervised? Are they under any kind of supervision? Is it an Iraqi supervision or a coalition supervision? That's one. And how does that relate in any way to what the Iraqi interim minister, in an interview, he said that Iran was enemy number one. So are the two related?
MR. ERELI: For logistical details on how the Camp Ashraf is run and what are the -- what are the procedures and limitations of movement and things like that, I'd refer you to the multinational force. The important point is that, a) they're disarmed; b) they are not, as I said earlier, that they are not in a position to pose a threat to individuals inside or outside Iraq. And that's the critical consideration in our view.
QUESTION: When you say disarmed are they still allowed to have rifles?
MR. ERELI: They are -- they do not pose a threat due to arms, I think is the --
QUESTION: So the tanks and stuff are in another place, but they still have firearms?
MR. ERELI: I think they've been disarmed to the extent that they cannot pose a threat. But if you ask me what -- do they have any caliber bullets, again, I'd refer you to the MNF.
I appologize for the length, but IMO the exchange did obliterated future Michael Moore fodder.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 12:25:48 PM ||
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We would, of course, be happy to deport them to Iran. As a humanitarian gesture, we would return all their property, guns, tanks, before deporting them.
#2
Chuck, with respect to repatriation, do you think that Sweden will be willing to accept all of their citizens back as most of them probably lack the ability to contribute to a society where being able to fillet a camel spider is not a vocational goldmine?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 13:56 Comments ||
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#3
Can you fry mr camer spider?
Posted by: Kim Need Ham ||
07/27/2004 16:58 Comments ||
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Way to long to post, but a good background read on the guy who appears to be the Col. Kurtz of Afghanistan.
Almost a decade ago, Jonathan Keith Idema sat in an Eastern North Carolina prison cell, blaming his legal woes on a vendetta by FBI agents angry that he refused to name Soviet spies who tipped him off to a nuclear smuggling operation in Lithuania. Now the Fayetteville resident sits in custody in Afghanistan, accused of running a vigilante anti-terrorist operation in which he rounded up innocent Afghans, held them in a makeshift jail and abused them. His defense? He was a good American doing his duty, only to be set up by the FBI as revenge for that Lithuanian spy caper.
Posted by: tu3031 ||
07/27/2004 10:56:39 AM ||
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U.S. District Judge Terrence W. Boyle, who presided over Idema's fraud trial in 1994: "I think insanity might have been his best defense."
#3
I remember him appearing on Imus in the Morning on MSNBC one time after he got back from Afghanistan in 2001-2002 timeframe. He was flaky then, flakier in Robin's book and even Imus (who is the flakiest of the flakey) questioned whether he was "real". Seems he is about to find out.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
07/27/2004 12:39 Comments ||
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#4
I vaguely remember this "Idema" he has DIA written all over him, perhaps KCIA but definitely not CID.
Posted by: Col Flagg ||
07/27/2004 14:16 Comments ||
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#5
He may turn out to be a bad guy, but most of the torture charges have melted down to, "he looked at us cross-eyed."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 14:19 Comments ||
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Like the parsons egg, good in parts
On May 26 in Naivasha, Kenya, the Arab-Islamic government of Khartoum signed a peace agreement with Christian and animist separatists from southern Sudan, ending twenty years of civil war. Other than the south, the accord concerns the three bordering regions of Abyei, the Blue Nile and the Nuba Mountains. The agreement does not affect Darfur, which lies to the west along the Chad border where another bitter war between Arabs and black African tribes is being waged. The long war in the south has put the Catholic Church found in these regions to a difficult test, as an extremely high number of Christians have been among the conflict's two million victims. But as Msgr. Cesare Mazzolari, the Italian-born bishop of Rumbek (in southern Sudan) said in a recent interview: "A new Christianity will arise from the blood of martyrs."
The interview — conducted by Stefano Lorenzetto and printed in the May 23 Sunday issue of the Milan-based daily, "Il Giornale" — is republished below in its full, original version. The interview is an exceptional report, offering a perfect portrait of a frontier-land bishop who knows "his" Islam very well, sees it in practice and describes it without reticence as an Islam made also of crucifixions, slavery, forced conversions and trickery.
According to bishop Mazzolari there is a world of difference between Islam and Christianity: Allah is not the same God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However the bishop does not idealize Christian warriors who have taken up arms against Muslims from Khartoum. Even they have committed their share of wrongdoings. The bishop reported such instances, and has subsequently endured problems on account of this. Even less so does the bishop praise the West and Western Christianity while lashing out vicious accusations against the United States. Following the attacks of September 11, the bishop views Americans as waging a furious hunt based on vengeance, which he says leads only to hatred.
The bishop explains how his extremely poor African faithful "experience September 11 everyday" in their lives. Yet they take no revenge. "They suffer injustice and disease without any bitterness. You can only learn from them," he said.
Posted by: tipper ||
07/27/2004 10:09:26 AM ||
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âThe time to be martyred is drawing near. I hope the Lord grants us the grace to face such bloodshed. Thereâs a need for purification. Many Christians will be killed for their faith. Yet a new Christianity will arise from the blood of these martyrs.â
The Bishop would not like me, but he is a good man none the less. I hope Jarhead and his boys will have the opportunity to answer the bishop's prayers. His people ahave suffered enough.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/27/2004 14:51 Comments ||
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#2
The Romans tried to extinguish Christianity by martyring the faithful. All it seemed to do was increase the numbers of Christians. Islam in Africa may find itself in for a rough ride if history repeats itself.
#4
Although I think Bishop Mazzolari is in some ways prescient (clash of cultures, much violence to come), I also see him as one of the most dangerous kinds of people in the world today, in the mold of Michael Moore: he mixes intelligent statements with confused ones and stirs up passions for misguided quests.
He seems intent on hawking martyrdom ("the time to be martyred is drawing near...there's a need for purification...") I am not interested in joining a martyrdom movement; I don't expect anyone to die for my sins, nor will accept dying for others' sins.
He draws us near with his misgivings about Islam ("The Church has defeated communism, but is just starting to understand...Islam, which is much worse"), so that we are lulled into believing we have shared values, and then he berates Bush for scoffing at "the planet's highest authorities, the UN and the pope". Funny, I don't recall the United States being beholden to either as supreme authority. (He's going to be a hit in Europe, though.)
He uses inflammatory, hyperbolic language to compare truly miserable and difficult lives in Africa with lives in America ("Here you experience poverty in terms of food and culture. In America you'll experience the worst misfortune that could ever befall you...you'll understand what is means to be a slave".)
"The answer does not lie in thinking we're right and they're wrong." Largely, Bishop, it does.
South African women have been urged to check regularly at their local registry offices, to see whether they have been married without their knowledge.
That's a new one...
A "marriage verification campaign" was launched after 3,387 fake marriages were discovered, an official said. Leslie Mashokwe said that criminals were using stolen identity papers to set up fake weddings to help foreign men get residence permits. Two Bangladeshi men were last week arrested for allegedly fake marriages. "Some women get mugged, others are robbed. Some people just lose their ID and it ends up in the wrong hands," said home affairs department spokesman Mr Mashokwe. "They work hand-in-hand with corrupt officials." Several women have recently had their wedding days ruined when they have been told they already had husbands.
Yeah. That could ruin your wedding day. You show up at the church to marry Bob and discover you're already hitched to Mahmoud...
Nicolene Saunders was refused a marriage certificate because she was already married, The Star newspaper reports on Monday. "I don't know this man from a bar of soap," she said. Last week, Bronwyn Gower went to pick up her new identity card and was astonished to find she was now "Mrs Fabian Oshi". She was reportedly married on 14 April - a national holiday because of general elections, when all government offices were closed. Officials, illegal immigrants and registered marriage officers, including priests, are all going to be investigated, under the "marriage verification campaign".
That's the bad part about getting married. Somebody's got to sign the certificate. I wonder how many dead women have married since their interrments?
"We're telling [women] to go and check their status. If they got married in church, are they sure their marriage has been registered?" Mr Mashokwe said. Crime syndicates reportedly sell fraudulent marriage certificates and residence permits for up to 5,000 rand ($833) each. The buyers mostly come from Pakistan, Nigeria, Egypt, India, Bangladesh and Brazil, the home affairs department says.
Posted by: tipper ||
07/27/2004 9:38:06 AM ||
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RTWT. But one amusing tidbit:
The base is pumping about $156,000 a day into the local economy and last year accounted for 5% of Kyrgyzstan's entire gross domestic product. Pretty small economy there.
Posted by: someone ||
07/27/2004 4:09:05 AM ||
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In case no one takes the time to read the article, I'll give you the money quote anyway:
"War is Godâs way of teaching geography to Americans.â
And, BTW, just what is the New York Sun? This is a very, very well written article...smart, incisive, factual, it is just great journalism...but why only a special to the NY Sun?
In any case, it is a nice, neutral read with no axes to grind, just good information from a weird place on this earth.
#3
That number would be higher if the Americans were allowed to drink at the local bars...
Posted by: El Jefe ||
07/27/2004 9:26 Comments ||
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#4
T: "War is Godâs way of teaching geography to Americans.â
This is an Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914) quote. I'm not sure which expedition he was referring to, though.
T: And, BTW, just what is the New York Sun? This is a very, very well written article...smart, incisive, factual, it is just great journalism...but why only a special to the NY Sun?
The New York Sun is the revival of an old paper by Seth Lipsky, ex-editor of the Forward. As the other broadsheet in NYC, the NY Sun is targeted at a conservative audience. The problem is that not too many newstands carry it. I think the Sun has a sugar daddy behind it, just as the money-losing Daily News has Mort Zuckerman and the similarly money-losing NY Post has Rupert Murdoch. "Special to the NY Sun" simply means that it is an article written by a NY Sun staffer, rather than an item ripped from the newswires (AP, AFP, Reuters, UPI). I would subscribe to it, except I already read the Post on a daily basis.
#6
The Sun has a number of rich guys behind it (including, interestingly, New Republic backer Michael Steinhardt). Mainville does some great stuff for them, but few papers have need for a full-time reporter on the Central Asia beat...
#8
I know where Bierce ended up. Can't tell of course, but it's a hell of a story, damn near tore off the Youkon for the... uh.. nevermind.
Posted by: Col Flagg ||
07/27/2004 14:20 Comments ||
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#9
Actually, the NY Sun was running with the fall of Haiti long before, and seems to have a slight neocon bent - one of its columnists regularly reports on China-Taiwan-Hong Kong, Daniel Pipes is carried, and Raymond Joseph, the current Haitian ambassador to the US, wrote a regular weekly (?) column on the impending fall of Aristide and ongoing violence in Haiti.
Still reading my copy ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
07/27/2004 15:05 Comments ||
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Via the Professor. I doubt this will happen, but wouldn't it be interesting?
Do not be surprised to see three or four divisions of the Russian army in the Sunni triangle before year-end, with an announcement just prior to the US presidential election in November. Long rumored (or under negotiation), a Russian deployment of 40,000 soldiers was predicted on July 16 by the US intelligence site www.stratfor.com, and denied by the Russian Foreign Ministry on July 20. Nonetheless, the logic is compelling. Russian support for US occupation forces would make scorched earth of Senator John Kerry's attack on the Bush administration's foreign policy, namely its failure to form effective alliances. For Russian President Vladimir Putin, the chance to make scorched earth of Fallujah is even more tempting.
In exchange for a troop presence in Iraq, Russia would obtain a free hand in dealings with the countries of the former Soviet Union. It would gain leverage against a weakening Turkey in the Caucasus and Central Asia. And it would vastly enhance its leverage in negotiations over the placement of oil pipelines. Most important, perhaps, it would assert its old status as a global military power against the feckless Europeans. In short, the arrangement would benefit everyone, except of course the population of Fallujah.
But they wouldn't necessarily go to Fallujah. They might get spread around or get their own "sector".
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/27/2004 12:20:18 AM ||
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#1
This is closer than you think.
If there is no Bin Laden "Surprise", look for this to hatch - and some of our guys to come home.
One Corps HQ, aviation assets (mainly transport/lift, some heli support about a battalion), 3 divisions - one airborne, 2 mech. The Russians want to get some life-fire in, and they want some Ops experience with the US. ANd this leads to one of the wierdest things; US F16's and A-10's and AC130's flying support for a Russian battalion-sized task force. The 80's era mind boggles.
This gives them a good way to get "winning" combat experience for their troops, whome they can then later use in Chechnya and some of the Caucasus area problem centers.
Also, this puts them in a position to get the oil contracts and such from the Iraqi government that they had signed before the war. Boots on the ground = protected Russian oil fields, pipelines, and and port facilities.
And Putin goes into the books as a "World Leader" in time for his election - and Bush will definitley "owe him one" for this will make his election. Expect the favor to be called in over Chechnya China and oil contracts.
Note this IS the A-Times. The author, "Spengler": Wikipedia lists him on the official Oswald Spengler page as: ""Oswald Spengler" is also the pseudonym of a Jewish-American columnist for the Asia Times Online, whose particular focus is on America."
So credibility IS something of an issue... Other articles here and here and here and here. Whew! Wotta collection! On the whole, he's written some pretty straight-forward stuff, so he's (potentially) an A-Times exception - the second I've come across.
Given OS's comments, I'm encouraged. BUT... If only Putty wasn't also gutting Russia for his own ends... I fear the "price tag" for Russian support will be far far higher than just looking away from Chechnya. In fact, I figure it's a "debt" that will never be cancelled. In sum, I don't much like the deal as described - too little for too much... The Jarines can handle Fallujah, as they've shown. All they need is to be backed up by their leadership, instead of undermined in a political ploy which has, thus far, utterly backfired, IMHO. Grrrr. This is like a Twinkie, filling if you eat enough of them, but ultimately unsatisfying.
#3
In the end, .com, the impression I get is that the presence of proxy forces (CIS) are distinctly BECAUSE of lack of leadership backing for the Jarines ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
07/27/2004 1:26 Comments ||
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#4
Okay... maybe so - what about the value vs price?
I'd have to see bouncing rubble in Fallujah, Armadi, hell - throughout the Sunni Triangle - to get anything like a warm feeling... Just $0.02.
#5
Point taken. In the end, perhaps the "calling in the Russians" is an assymetrical countermanuever against the Lefties who won't let the Jarheads run wild on Fallujah ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
07/27/2004 1:39 Comments ||
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#6
The Russians are taking a dozen KIA a day in Chechnya in an area perhaps a fraction of 1% the size of Iraq. I don't think they can handle either the logistics or the combat. They'd be lambs to the slaughter. And that bit about the author being "Jewish-American" is just spooky - just what is Jim Lobe, the wacko writer regularly featured in ATimes? Arab-American?
#7
This could be a step closer to seeing Russia in NATO one day.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/27/2004 1:45 Comments ||
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#8
I don't think they can handle either the logistics or the combat.
By themselves, no. But with American support???
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/27/2004 1:46 Comments ||
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#9
ZF - Scan those articles - an interesting POV was required for that collection... cynical, hipster, joker, patriot, quite a raconteur / critic / believer... I echo your WTF? response, lol!
#11
A simple question, why can not the US handle the situation on its own in Irq? If it is the super-power, why the need of other's help?
Cuz we aint multi-lateral if we don't ask others for help nicely and saying "with sugar on top" and we if do go it alone we're called bullies and imperialists? Seriously Ricks thats basically a no brainer question you just posed. We're damned by the international community whichever way we choose (if we ask for help as you've seen with the UN, France, Germany and others) we get turned down most often than not, our international allies that ARE there (I believe thats about 30 countries still?) get no attention or respect at all and whenever we try to do things by ourselves we're called everything from "torturers, warmongers, greedy oil bastards" to whatever else.
As for this piece about the Russians, color me skeptical. Theres so much I could say just about logistic issues alone that could get an idea like this bogged down that I'd have a hard time getting to the communications sharing that any coordination they might do with US forces is gonna have. Heck we have that problem right now with our current on ground allies, it isn't going to get better with the Russians on the ground to boot. Then theres the whole doctrine and whos in charge issue, which rules of engagement do they follow, what tactics are going to be used, etc etc.
#12
Why is this topic even posted here? Someone would have to be brain-dead to believe it. Two more Iraqi cities were handed over to the enemy, last week. The US will leave Iraq to its new Iranian masters, and will do so like the "wounded animal" that Rafsanjani identified last April. And you can thank the over-achieving idiot in the White House for squandering hundreds of billions of American taxdollars, and American credibility in order to satisfy his infantile concept of how a resolute President should act. The Bush circus is the most collosal Presidential catastrophe since the Ulysses S Grant regime. To the minority who believe that democratic pro-US regimes are being created in Iraq and Afghanistan: show some self-respect.
#15
In My Humble Opinion, getting Russian "help" would be a disaster. As Zhang Fei has pointed out, their policy in Chechnya is producing lots of casualties on both sides, but no resolution in sight, and with a lot more occupying soldiers per capita than we have in Iraq.
And since we're the responsible authority, and not fascist communists, the world will not ignore any atrocities the Russians do in our name, the way they do ignore the ones the Russians commit at home.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
07/27/2004 9:08 Comments ||
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#16
Assuming that Russians would send combat troops assumes way too much. The President of Iraq asked for Russian technical help. He remarked that Russians have a good reputation in Iraq for good quality products and construction. I would also like to add that, like our own, the majority of soldiers in Russia's army are *not* combat troops, but combat support and service support.
So, what would all these Russians do?
First of all, don't think big picture, except for some mild linkages of diplomatic niceties, like the US warming up to their joining the WTO. The #1 task of the Russian soldiers would be to observe and interact with their American counterparts--learning tons of useful stuff--and to establish a foothold in Iraq, the future economic powerhouse of the entire middle east (think "the Germany of the middle east").
In other words, to build the second largest embassy in Iraq, and possibly the infrastructure for Russian corporations who want to move "in country" immediately.
It also puts Russia in the middle of things--potential trouble spots--right next door to the US, and able to "force project" into Central Asia, the middle east, *and* northern Africa.
This strategic location is important enough, if you remember, for the US to make a new *command* out of it (on a par with CENTOM, SOUTHCOM, etc.), led by a four-star general. The Russians probably see it in the same light and their (possibly permanent) contingent will be led by a very high ranking officer.
#17
He remarked that Russians have a good reputation in Iraq for good quality products and construction.
Consider what that means...
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/27/2004 10:08 Comments ||
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#18
Wouldn't Russian troops in there free up our troops and let them look to the east....Iran?
I don't mind having the russians in there. I don't completely trust them but I trust them more than the French and Germans.
A Russia in Nato would change everything about that organization. It would nullify anything the Euros wanted.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
07/27/2004 10:22 Comments ||
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#19
1) Russia has a long history of military help in Iraq.
2) Iraq is recalling its old Amry leaders, the ones least tainted by Saddam.
3) Iraq need and wants a "professional" army.
4) The US is too politically dangerous to use - the Iraqi people, rightly or wrongly, are resentful of the US Military.
5) Putin need to transform his military into one more like the US - look at the recent firings at the top
6) Putin need to put Russia on the World Stage for his own ends, to bolster himself politically at home and abroad
7) Iraq is already the geographic center of the middle east.
9) Iraq, once its economy gets fully going, will be the biggest free economy in the middle east. It has a history of secular business unmatched by anyone (Other than Israel) in the region.
10) Russia has historical oil contracts and development contracts that its economy must get - there is a real need for that money to flow into Russia which will help the econmy (and Putin again).
11) Politically - it casts Putin as a peacemaker, and an "old ally" come to "rescue an old ally". This plays well at home and in the middle east for Putin.
12) The US can provide air support and logistical support. The Russians would love to learn that from us: it (logistics of power projection) won the US WW2 and is one of the reasons we have such military power.
13) The US can supply training to "elite" units as well as to IRaqi units.
14) The IRaqis have already said they would welcom RUssian Civil help - this provides cover for a "protection force". Once the military is rebuilt, it will need advisors and more equipment - and they have a ton of old Russian gear around. Makes sense that Russian military advisors will be needed. And to protect them, more RUssian troops.
15) The US needs help, and given blood versus money, we'd rather spend money (At least those wwho care about the troops more than the politics).
16) Bush need some help politically, and having the Russians roll in shows that this was not a "Conquest" but a liberation, since the IRaqis will have chose to bring others in to help.
17) This takes some of the insurgent focus off the US troops, given the splash a large Russian deployment would make.
18) Russian troops would be "starting fresh" and woudl be able to patrol where we cannot politicially do so (Fallujah).
19) Showing a US changing of the guard type thing, US taking the garrison out, and Iraqis directing RUssian toops in, then shwoing US troops "on the plane home"... well thats fantastic for our troops! Any commander-in-chief would love to have a situation become more stable and pull troops home.
20) Timing: the pictures of 18 would be a massive political bonus.
Sum it up. There are tons of good things to happen here. Too many to be ignored by Putin or Bush. The only question is are there enough pragmatists on both sides to overcome the idealogues? Because if this is not done by October, then it could be President Kerry who gets the benefit of all this.
Come on Dubya, get on the pony and ride like hell - get this one done!
#21
OS: Come on Dubya, get on the pony and ride like hell - get this one done!
I don't really see this coming to fruition. The Russians are getting what meager results they are (remember - it's been ten years since they started fighting in Chechnya and they're still taking a dozen KIA a day) using extremely coercive methods that include deliberately targeting (i.e. raping, torturing, killing) family members and punitively shelling civilian areas. Immediately after a brigade was massacred in 1994, thousands of artillery shells were indiscriminately used on Grozny, reputedly killing thousands in a matter of days. And they're still losing a dozen men a day. We'll let the Russians in only if we want a real quagmire in Iraq. Their incompetence speaks for itself.
#22
This offers enough benefits to the Russians to be possible. Contrary to what you might think, it is not in Russia's interests to have a weak US president. John Kerry would not be perceived as having either the foresight or the courage to stand with Russia against China should the need arise. Russia has also shown itself more than willing to send troops where it perceives national interests (remember the surprise appearance of Russian paratroops in Kosovo). Certainly the political and economic opportunities afforded by a military presence in Iraq are substantial enough to be tempting.
#23
Besides, the Russians are the only continental power that could put 40,000 combat troops anywhere. It would be a delicious reminder to the French and Germans of how irrelevant they have made themselves since the end of the Cold War.
#24
The whole idea of Russian troops in Iraq may cause more panic in Tehran that anywhere else. Putin may be supportive of the mullahs domestiuc nuclear program but I'm not sure he is prepared to have a terrorist nuclear threat on his southern border. As in, leave Chechnya or we take out Moscow.
Posted by: john ||
07/27/2004 11:28 Comments ||
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#25
OS,
Add to list: Muslims, especially Iran, would get to look at how the US treated Fallujah versus how Russians treat it. If this doesn't convince the silent majority of Muslims to do something about their wacksos, they face the alliance that levelled Germany and find out how first hand.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
07/27/2004 11:32 Comments ||
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#26
I will always be deeply skeptical of Russian motives, methods and competence. And can anyone give a single example of Russian troops improving a situation.
#27
I don't know.
It's the Russians.
I haven't been impressed with the way they've handled Chechnya and Grozny.
This may bear short-term benefits for us... but what happens if the Ruskies can't get anywhere in Fallujah and decide to come down heavy handed? What happens if they decide to flatten Fallujah and call on us for airsupport?
I'm thinking Russian security forces (Blackwater contractors) *may* be acceptable.
#28
If Pres.Bush has a twisted sense of humor,he would get a brigade of Russians initially,but assign them to the Polish Div.Area of OPs,and put the Poles in charge of them.
Posted by: Stephen ||
07/27/2004 12:27 Comments ||
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#29
Grunter: I will always be deeply skeptical of Russian motives, methods and competence.
I think the key word is motives. What if the Russians plunk down in one part of Iraq and refuse to leave, as they did in Pristina, Kosovo, in 1998? My feeling is that our interests in Iraq don't coincide, and the Russians are notorious for being difficult just for the hell of it.
#30
Russian force projection/logistical lift capacity is limited or decrepit. They are going to have a hell of a time moving and supplying 40,000 troops. I think that the benefit to the US is very short-lived while the long-term benefit would accrue to Russia. Not sure this one works for me.
Posted by: remote man ||
07/27/2004 12:34 Comments ||
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#31
Stephen, LOL. That has the makings of the biggest blue-on-blue episode since World War 2.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/27/2004 12:39 Comments ||
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#32
If it sounds too good to be true......yadda yadda. This would be a good thing overall....but 40,000 seems unrealistic - 4000 I could see but I'm not gonna hold my breath
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
07/27/2004 13:10 Comments ||
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#33
What if the Russians plunk down in one part of Iraq and refuse to leave
Hell, what if they refuse to leave Iraq at all? They do have a tendency to stay way past their welcome.
Two things: where would Russia find the money for this? They would have to get their hands on something really lucrative in Iraq, perhaps in competition against the US and the other coalition members. This in itself could negate any military help from the Russians.
On the other hand, the troops that Russia would send to Iraq would be the real thing, not some "special" Police units (presumably). Chechnya is seen more as a police action within Russian territory, with troops assigned from all over the place: ministry of the interior forces (MVD), police forces (OMON), contracted soldiers and conscripts.
The other thing about Chechnya, is that there's a presumption here by most people that Russia is actually interested in winning that conflict. I propose that Putin could care less as long there is relative calm, and the conflict doesn't spill over into neighbouring areas.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/27/2004 14:16 Comments ||
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#34
#17 He remarked that Russians have a good reputation in Iraq for good quality products and construction.
Consider what that means...
Robert, belive it or not there is some validity to that comment. Consider that Bechtel and KBR and the other E&C contrators there must work to US regs and rules - including OSHA, FCPA, etc. This does slow things down especially the security and safety issues. But the Russians have no equal set of requirements to hold their contractors and techreps to - so they work to the Iraqi tradition of shit construction, bribes, favorite sons, etc. Of course, the souks would love to see the Euros and Russkies back - they can deal with them - quality, safety and anti-corruption aren't on the agenda and they can play easier.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
07/27/2004 15:23 Comments ||
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#35
As Old Spook says in his excellent analysis, this would be a great opportunity for the Russkies, who will be looking at the long term, 20-plus years out. However, as Zhang Fei says, they will not likely want to ever leave, as they would see it as a foot in the door to a new imperial venture in the oil-rich south. 40K troops on the border of Saudi, later building to what 100K? 200K? It would also be a good counter-move to the US lily-pad strategy in the "arc of instability".
#36
Meanwhile, elsewhere in the 'burg, read "U.S. deployment in Kyrgyzstan shows new lilypad strategy" and learn that Russia is agitating with the 'stans to expel U.S. forces and setting up an airbase 70 miles from the Kyrgyzstan base. Fighter jets, ground attack craft, etc. This is how Russia welcomes the U.S. to its backyard. Should we trust them in Iraq? Russia is the enemy just as much as France, but smarter and more much more dangerous. As it always has been.
#37
Maybe the Russians and the US are looking at different long-term game: They both have the problem of Central Asia. They both have the problem of Iran going Nuke. The demographics and projections are rather complex for the next thirty years. This could become one interesting globe.
#39
Extraordinary Russian actions in Chechnya have their cause in past historical events: 1)Chechnya has quite often been rebellious - Romans would have salted the fields long ago: 2)Many from Chechnya vigorously supported the fascist beast during the late "Great Patriotic War"...
#40
borgboy: Many from Chechnya vigorously supported the fascist beast during the late "Great Patriotic War"...
As did many Muslims. Some might object that Christians also fought in Hitler's armies. The rejoinder is that most Christians fought against Hitler, whereas most Muslims fought in his behalf.
#41
Hope they are Spetznats,heard a story in wich some Russians(diplos I think)in Beruit were kidnapped and urdered.The Spets whent in there,found out who did the crime.Since they couldn't find the perps the Spets kidnapped and killed members of thier familys.Don't how true this is.
#42
What if the Russians don't leave? By the time that matters, the Iraqi Army and political system will be strong enough to diplomatically push them out.
Russia cannot afford to sustain a corps sized element in that region without US help and the cooperation of the Iraqi government.
So its not an issue. Remember - one of the big things Putin gets out of this is *training* for his troops and he doesnt have to foot much of the logistical bill.
You guys tend to drop the context, and that makes you have some misguided worries, like Russia trying to take the oil fields.
#43
Not necessarily OS, you're assuming that Russia wouldn't try to develop economic ties, remember thats what this whole thread here has been alluding to. A combination of economic power plays through the use of using a physical force on the ground to create a potentially stable situation while gaining favor with the Iraqi government in order to gain contracts. If the Iraqis go with Russian equipment, contractors, business whatever then they could face some serious financial penalties. Its entirely possible that Russian contractors may offer lower bids to get work done or may offer higher payoffs (or bribes) to get something they want. To say this wouldn't happen would be naive. Personally I'd be against russian combat troop deployments, if they want to deploy observers then thats a different package deal, but keep those troops to a limited time frame or you can face some SERIOUS problems.
#44
I'm not worried about the Russians one way or another about staying, my questions are more organizational - who do they work for? The U.S.? The Iraqi Gov? Who are they Opcon to? What logistics does it take to feed and *fix* ruskie troops and ruskie equipment? More questions then answers especially in the light that we want to downsize all coalition troops in Iraq. Overall, I say keep them at home. We don't need any more cooks in the kitchen. With the ruskies you get the ego's of their politicos in the way, I'd just stay put w/what we got going.
Iraqi interim prime minister Iyad Allawi says his government will not normalize relations with Israel before other Arab states do as part of a Middle East settlement. Speaking during a visit to Lebanon Monday, Mr. Allawi said Iraq's future relations with Israel will be determined by two issues, "international resolutions and a just and comprehensive peace." Mr. Allawi also rejected as "totally false" reports that Israeli intelligence agents were operating out of Iraq.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
The Iraqi prime minister said his country and its territory will not be a base for any action hostile to any Arab nation.
Unlike its neighbors.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/27/2004 12:15:12 AM ||
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#1
Seems to me Allawi is blowing one hell of an opportunity. What better way to prove that Iraq is serious about putting themselves on track to join the modern world than to not allow the actions/attitudes of their fellow Arabs/Muslims to dictate their policy towards Israel?
Unless, of course, there's some Iraqi anti-Semitism that needs to be stamped out first, in which case I can see a need for extra time...
#2
No way. This is just an interim Gov't - and all the bugaboos of Arab "society" are beyond challenge. You'd need at least two generations of true secular democracy to even begin to see such moderation - and this won't be any secular anything, will it Ayatollah Sistani?
Hey, the Arabs don't play any favorites here... They hate all Americans for our resident Joooos and support of Israel. If we were to abandon Israel tomorrow - it wouldn't be enough. Here's today's Arab News "cartoon" - and I use that term very loosely.
#3
Between this and wanting to cosy up to Syria some more, Allawi is making some mis-steps.
Let's hope that Negroponte gets him in the woodshed or something, because this is "back to business as usual" for Iraq.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
After all, what has Israel ever done to them?
#5
We'll see who normalizes after the Mad Mullah Brigade⢠collapses, and the fascists are relived of their heads. My guess is that if there is an Israel left after that, whatever is left of Iran will normalize, and that will lead to the rest of the 'slims following suit.
#6
Mr. Allawi also rejected as "totally false" reports that Israeli intelligence agents were operating out of Iraq.
Hmmm... I bet Israeli intelligence has been working out of Iraq since ummmm..... a long time.
Yet shall the Lord, who hears when Zion calls,
O'ertake her foes with terror and dismay,
His arm avenge her desolated walls,
And raise her children to eternal day.
#8
And unfortunately, the more the "international community" gets its fingers in Iraq's pie, the less likely Allawi is to normalize relations with Israel. Maybe never.
The betrayal of some of our "allies" in this war has many repercussions.
BEIRUT (Reuters) - Iraq's prime minister said on Monday he would work to restore diplomatic ties with Kuwait during a visit this week to the tiny neighbor Saddam Hussein invaded in 1990. "During this trip we will go to Kuwait and discuss the issue of resuming diplomatic ties," Iyad Allawi, due in Kuwait on July 31, told a news conference after meeting his Lebanese counterpart in Beirut. "We don't see any setback or any problem between Iraq and Kuwait in the future."
Iraq has yet to restore diplomatic relations with its Gulf Arab neighbor, which U.S. troops and their allies used as a springboard for their invasion of Iraq last year, and is still required to pay it war reparations. But Iraq's U.S.-backed interim government has said it wants to pursue friendly ties with its neighbors and Allawi is leading an Iraqi delegation on a regional tour that has so far taken him to Jordan, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/27/2004 12:11:42 AM ||
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#1
There once was a man from Tikrit
Who wanted the world at his feet
His vaulting ambition
came nought to fruition
Now he's soon to be feeling red heat
#3
Once I was a tyrant that did many in
I have a heart of frozen helium
I made a lot of foes with all my sin
And used a lot of movie stars so dumb
I hated Kurds and tried to wipe them out
I let Uday kill women just for fun
Now I am doomed to die without a doubt
Regrets? Man, I sure have a metric ton!
I wish I'd taken Bush more seriously
I wish that I'd not had a granite heart
I wish I had not made such enemies
My soul shall soon flee body like a dart
And many will be dancing on my grave
While I roast in torments I myself made
#8
I like coffee.
I like tea.
And why, just because I'm a murderous, Kurd gassing, Iran and Kuwait invading, WMD shuffling, Oil-for-Palaces organizing, Abu Nidal and Al Qaeda supporting, Bounty for Suicide Bombing providing, Marsh draining, Mass Grave digging, and Oil Well torching thug,
Does the Coalition have it in for me?
#9
I was the great dictator, I ruled all that I see
I made all kinds of money selling oil through OFP
France helped me at the UN, but then came the Marines
They snuffed Uday, I had to run away
I had to dig like a mole in a spider hole
But still they captured me
(Apologies to Billy Joel.)
Posted by: Mike ||
07/27/2004 7:01 Comments ||
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#11
There once was a tyrant, Saddam,
Who wanted a nuclear bomb.
Though Chiraq had his back,
George Bush still attacked
Now Saddam and his regime are gone!
Posted by: Mike ||
07/27/2004 9:45 Comments ||
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#12
Here I sit,
brokenhearted.
Scared to shit;
trial just started.
#14
And here's another one I wrote sitting at firebase Camelot watching the oil well fires one night after Desert Storm, inspired by Blue Oyster Cult:
Strange fires light up the night,
Have you aerâ seen such a mystical sight?
Donât ask if they are real.
The men in cloth, their lips are sealed.
I turn my head up to the sky,
Iâd like to know before I die,
If memories will surely fade,
Desert winds, can you take it away?
Mass destruction means nothing to me,
From the tyrant the small one is free.
Iâve seen death upon the sand,
Wrath of decay from the insane ones hand.
Impoverished souls overcome with despair,
One mansâ dream is anotherâs nightmare.
A countryâs life is stripped away,
Flames by night, darkness by day.
Festering black sores deface the terrain,
No respite, no refrain.
Numerous atrocities so many souls obtain,
A culture stripped is so hard to regain.
Books of history, written boutâ the sand,
Faceless soldiers have retaken the land.
Their lives continue, the nation forges on,
The face of death is finally gone.
There once was a man from Tikrit
who was such an obnoxious shit
no one ever explained
why his sons raped and maimed
but they're dead like he'll be in a bit.
#10somebody say hiakoo? how many syllables is draw and quartered?
"Drawn and quartered" would be four syllables, as in:
Steak cut up by chef
Summer eyed troops want me
drawn and quartered too
#25
"Doom, despair, and agony on me,
"Deep dark depression, endless misery,
"If it weren't for bad luck,
"I'd have no luck at all,
"Doom, despair, and agony on me."
#26
Curiously enough, France's foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin was an amateur poet. As we know, Monsieur de Villepin argued eloquently against the Iraq invasion. Perhaps Dominque and Saddam "touched" one another with heady poetry in the past which caused an empathy between the two?
Posted by: rex ||
07/27/2004 22:32 Comments ||
Top||
#27
god willing,
here im in sit
great leader of nation
my rule in ligit
dont lissen chainey sayin
ima great muslim savior
befor crusader came callin
cuz in my behavior
my statue now fallin
bush isnt see
all good thing im done
maybe peples aint free
but the peace in been won
blasted shia and kurds
they are need teach a lesson
sarin gas in does hurt
now they no more are messin
i am great conquer!
those dog in iran
im make many a slaughter
and bring peace in the land
then infedil kuwait
in test all my patience
they are bring they own fate
by being a nation
then goddamer bush!
he is make coalition
ima get kick in the tush
my dream not see fruition
then good years are follow
after take care shia mess
un resolve in shallow
clinton staining em dress
ima have 2 good sons
litle ooday and kusay
they are learned them lessons
on killing and pussy
then tragic day is strike
and im knew end at the door
no awful message like
bush till 2004
ima knew this happen!
him threat i am hear
then 911 happen
ima grow me a beard
he is not understand
itn my peples im love
palaces all over the land
so im can look at them from above
so now here im in sit
my trial in draw nearer
this fate in bullshit
for great muslim leader!
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
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Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
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