A top Russian security official has briefly visited Qatar, where two Russian spies are appealing life sentences received for killing an exiled Chechen rebel, the Security Council said on Friday. A brief statement by President Vladimir Putin's top advisory body said its secretary Igor Ivanov met Crown Prince Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, a son of Emir Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, on Thursday. Sheikh Tamim and Ivanov, whom Putin has more than once dispatched abroad to handle sensitive political concerns, discussed "bilateral ties and international issues", the statement said. Relations between the two countries soured earlier this year after two Russian agents were arrested and sentenced to life imprisonment in the Gulf state for assassinating former Chechen separatist leader Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev.
Russia does not agree with the sentence and has said it will fight to bring the agents home. On Wednesday a Qatari court began hearing an appeal filed by the defence team but adjourned to July 29 after a one-hour closed session. Local newspapers quoted a former justice minister as saying the proceedings were expected to last until early next year. Lawyers familiar with the court proceedings say the country's top court could end up toughening it to the death penalty. The defence team says Putin needs to intervene personally with the emir.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/26/2004 11:37:42 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[6 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Perhaps a friend of the court? Bearing writs and pieces.
A TERRORIST group threatening to turn Australia into "pools of blood" has a cell in Melbourne, police have been told. The Tawhid Islamic Group has been meeting in an inner-city suburb for years, and still does, police have been warned. An undercover informer working with law enforcers uncovered the Melbourne-based Tawhid members while trying to infiltrate another Middle Eastern gang a decade ago. He said Tawhid fundamentalists in the Middle East were "sick puppies" and compared their cruelty with the Taliban. On Saturday, the al-Qaeda connected group threatened the Australian Government with terrorist attacks. For more on the Tawhid Islamic Group click here and here and maybe here
#2
Australian police are well known for their less-than-perfect etiquette, especially when dealing with hardcore elements. I predict not so happy days in the very near future for these Islamist conspirators.
Long article in the Telegraph. I'll cut and paste some add'l info. some of us may have not seen elsewhere.
...So what did happen on Northwest Airlines flight 327 on that June afternoon? The above events came to light after Mrs Jacobsen shared her story with a few colleagues, and finally wrote it down. She sent a copy to the Washington Post but did not receive a response. However, she did get a swift telephone call from the Federal Air Marshal Services. Under questioning, a spokesman revealed, the 14 men had said they were musicians travelling to a concert at a Californian desert casino. None showed up on the FBI's most wanted list and since their story checked out they were allowed to go. The band, the spokesman said, "gave their little performance in the casino and two days later flew out on a JetBlue flight from Long Beach to New York".
...Security specialists in America have been warning for some time that terrorists have been boarding US internal flights with bombs split into seemingly innocent parts that allow members of their gangs to pass through checkpoints undetected. The device, they say, is then put together during the flight, probably in the aircraft lavatory, and hence involves multiple visits to the bathroom by all those involved. Gary Boettcher, a member of the board of directors of the Allied Pilots Association, wrote to Mrs Jacobsen, saying that he and many fellow captains had witnessed similar practice runs. "I am a captain with a major airline," he said. "I was very involved with the Arming Pilots effort. Your reprint of this airborne event is not a singular nor isolated experience. The terrorists are probing us all the time." Another pilot, Mark Bogosian, with American Airlines, said: "The incident you wrote about, and incidents like it, occur more than you like to think. It is a 'dirty little secret' that all of us, as crew members, have known about for quite some time."
#2
Here's a neat little solution. Make access to the airline toilets possible only by using a magnetic stripe card (like hotel card keys) that identifies a passenger ticket number. The transfer of any person's card is a punishable offense. Repeated short-term lavatory use flags you and gets your picture taken. The lavatory is then swept for a IED and discovery of any evidence walks back to the recorded list of passenger ticket numbers for that flight and previous ones.
Identity checks then begin profiling (yes, profiling) matches between passengers and countries of origin or flight destinations to establish any suspected collaborators onboard the flight or ones made by that aircraft previously. As association charts are filled in we would be able to detect congregations of suspected terrorists on a given flight or particular aircraft and seek to disable the threat.
I can draw up a white paper if someone else finds the funding. It only uses existing technology and is a no-brainer.
#3
I read her story and was shocked by the reticence of the paseengers. I think part of the significance of the Texas Ranger motto, "One Riot, One Ranger," is that a Texas Ranger can expect a posse to for instaneously. Here are some things that passangers could have done if they were threatened:
1. Ask the stewardess to provide a full and unopened can of any beverage. Load the can into a sock in preparation for a throw down. Swap seats so that you can keep an eye on the guy with the foot problem.
2. Pass a note to the stewardess to notify the captain and the air marshal that you intend to attempt to solve the problem. Then confront the leader or to stop one of the band and tell hem that you don't think that he needs to go to the bathroom anymore.
4. Go to the bathroom yourself and bring the entire NY Times Sunday edition.
There are almost infinite choices. Any of them are better than to allow a dry run to proceed without challenge.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/26/2004 1:57 Comments ||
Top||
#4
1.Gary Boettcher, a member of the board of directors of the Allied Pilots Association, wrote to Mrs Jacobsen:this airborne event is not a singular nor isolated experience
2. Another pilot, Mark Bogosian, with American Airlines, said: "The incident you wrote about, and incidents like it, occur more than you like to think. It is a âdirty little secretâ that all of us, as crew members, have known about for quite some time."
And these comments, I expect, will be buried in the 2nd report of the Congressional Commission struck after 9/11 encore? Is Normie Mineta putting these "incident" reports in File 13? While the "Rats and Dimwits are courting the votes of the Muslim-American quarter, we're supposed to fly with eyes in the back of our heads and take Karate lessons so we can over power Muslim terrorists who hijack a jetliner? Our fearless leaders in DC fly in private jets and Airforce 1 while we common plebs fly with terrorists in our midst. Nice.
Posted by: rex ||
07/26/2004 2:01 Comments ||
Top||
#5
The problem is Norm Mineta and his personal reasons (being a child in a WWII Japanese internment camp in the US) for not allowing racial profiling of Muslim/Arab men.
The only question is whether we wait until after the next 9/11 attack or put some of the those 9/11 Commission recommendations into operation now and do it so there won't be another attack or at least one using airplanes.
I hate to say this, but I fully understand why they put Japanese living here in those camps.
Now that I know what I know about Islam as a religion (and it ain't a Religion of Peace in the least!), it's just not safe, even if it's not PC, to assume that all Muslims are moderates, as I'm sure they're not all radicals, but all it takes is 1 guy like shoe bomber Richard Reid on a plane, as we know now.
They'd profile us if it were Saudi Arabia and I bet they do it there anyway!
#6
Unfortunately, it's all of our politicians, including GWB, and not just Normie Mineta, who are loathe to profile Arab air travellers for fear of losing votes.
Here's another article about the scary stuff that's happening on our jetliners. No one cares, because the people in power don't use commercial flights. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040721-101403-1508r.htm
"Scouting jetliners for new attacks" by Audrey Hudson 7/22/04
Posted by: rex ||
07/26/2004 2:55 Comments ||
Top||
#7
I wonder if ANY of you cares one bit about the actual facts of the matter. Which in this case only serve to highlight the ridiculousness of Mrs Jacobsen's extreme racism and nothing else.
FACT ONE -- The Syrians were EXACTLY what they were claiming to be, doing exactly what they were claiming to be doing, not causing the slightest problem. The extensive background checks turned out fine, again and again and again. Nothing happened except what was supposed to be happening.
Nice scare quotes, rex -- utterly disgraceful ones. But (and this may disappoint you) the musicians were indeed truly musicians -- you can check out some of their music here I believe: http://www.almazaj.com/WMCshop.cgi?action=dbview&id=TMP1210
FACT TWO -- If this was supposed to be a "practice run" then it utterly failed, because the air marshals were checking out the toilets to see no mischief was being done there. And indeed no mischief was.
They had it in *mind*. There was no danger. And the extensivity of the checks on the true Syrian musicians bordered on the ludicrous, so there was *doubly* no danger. But I know that everyone likes the role of the victim so keep on pretending that the eeevil PC crowd leaves you all so utterly unprotected and insecure by allowing Muslims to use the toilet -- which was the full extent of Mrs. Jacobsen's reason to worry. That a group of Muslim people probably had a bit too much coffee while waiting for their plane and then had to use the toilet.
Naive of me, I know, to believe that not all toilet-users are necessarily planning the assembly of bombs. But one thing I agree with Jacobsen is indeed that these people shouldn't have used the toilet. They should have peed all over *her* instead, something which she most thoroughly would have deserved.
FACT THREE -- the only real danger in the whole case came from Jacobsen's own hysterics. Read it up here:
http://www.kfi640.com/ericleonard.html
"The passenger, later identified as Annie Jacobsen, was in danger of panicking other passengers and creating a larger problem on the plane, according to a source close to the secretive federal protective service."
and also this:
"The source said the air marshals on the flight were partially concerned Jacobsenâs actions could have been an effort by terrorists or attackers to create a disturbance on the plane to force the agents to identify themselves. Air marshalsâ only tactical advantage on a flight is their anonymity, the source said, and Jacobsen could have put the entire flight in danger. âThey have to be very cognizant of their surroundings,â spokesman Adams confirmed, âto make sure it isnât a ruse to try and pull them out of their cover."
A story about *nothing*, puffed up to sound important and dangerous. Oh, no the Islamic guy didn't smile back to my own fake smile -- that must mean he must be eeevil and plotting terror.
#8
Aristotle, there's nothing to say that jihadis can't pretend to be a "band" when they're really terrorists.
I've read nowhere in her account that the air marshals did anything, much less clear the plane's restrooms.
You don't know what danger there was, pal, but it doesn't sound good.
Ms. Jacobsen's account sounds eerily like actor James Wood's account of witnessing the 9/11 hijackers do a dry run.
The part that scared me the most was that, clearly, the killers have decided that 4 or 5 guys is too few and that they need to use bigger teams.
Shut up and stay in Greece, Krapsaris--America will take care of the problem both here and in Athens!
#9
"Aristotle, there's nothing to say that jihadis can't pretend to be a "band" when they're really terrorists"
But the point is that these people were indeed a band.
Not that you ever cared about facts, Jen, now or ever before.
"I've read nowhere in her account that the air marshals did anything, much less clear the plane's restrooms."
No, the air marshals don't advertise themselves going around saying "we are air marshals". Revealing themselves is the last thing they want to do. I gave you the account that tells it.
Ofcourse *next* time, and in order to not show themselves "ineffective" when the next Mrs Jacobsen comes along, they'll immediately have to reveal themselves to her, and thus be vulnerable to the terrorists.
Who knows -- perhaps this was a "dry run" on the part of Mrs Jacobsen, not the musicians. A try to see whether air marshals would be stupid enough to reveal themselves just in order to comfort the hysterics of a passenger.
"The part that scared me the most was that, clearly, the killers have decided that 4 or 5 guys is too few and that they need to use bigger teams."
Killers that never actually killed or tried to kill anyone aren't killers. And these specific group "clearly" weren't killers, no matter what you "clearly" see.
#10
Aris, ever hear of a "cover story"? Let's see, they could be a band, and then receive terrorist training. But, they have a reasonable purpose for their travel and they can test security all they like. After all, the real killers are waiting...let the reconnaissance teams do their work first.
Lessee, a large group of Syrians, who paid cash for first-class tickets, behaving oddly on an airliner. Where have I heard that story before? Ah yeah, James Woods saw the same thing a few weeks before 9/11.
#11
You are just OBTUSE, Katsaris!
Before there were the 9/11 attacks, they almost certainly made dry runs.
And Ms. Jacobsen's account makes no mention of the air marshals ever revealing themselves.
You just love to pretend that Americans are making this whole War on Terror up, don't you?
Wait until those bastards blow up the Parthenon!
#12
Unfortunately, I must agree with Aris, and Don Sensing, another flaming Greek liberal, on this one. There is no reason to believe that any of the band members are terrorists or that any security personnel did not perform their job successfully and appropriately. Ms Jacobsen was either, charitably, overwrought or, cynically, successful in getting her 15 minutes of fame, if only on the blogosphere.
It is ironic that by bending over backwards to be politically correct Underperforin Norman is actually increasing the fear of Americans that any person of Arab descent is a possible terrorist. It is this kind of unrestrained fear that will lead to calls for interment camps after the inevitable next domestic terrorist attack.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
07/26/2004 8:02 Comments ||
Top||
#13
Let's see, they could be a band, and then receive terrorist training
Let's see, they could also be a band and then NOT receive terrorist training. But just be a band.
And Ms. Jacobsen's account makes no mention of the air marshals ever revealing themselves.
You still haven't picked up any reading skills, have you? That's exactly what I said. That they were competent, when you had wanted them to be incompetent instead. Idiot.
#15
Although I think the whole story is fishier than a mermaid's knickers, I don't see how you come to your conclusion that the air marshals were 'competent' through apparent impotence, Aris. If these Syrian guys really were acting in a manner that suggested they were assembling a bomb, then the marshals should have intervened. They wouldn't have beren given any posthumous medals just for going down with everyone else having successfully 'maintained cover'. The way I see it, either certain passenger were getting carried away, or the air marshals weren't doing anything to prevent what looked like a mid-air bombing attempt.
#16
If these Syrian guys really were acting in a manner that suggested they were assembling a bomb, then the marshals should have intervened.
But they weren't assembling a bomb so perhaps the marshalls' ability to interpret their behavior after being trained is superior to Ms Jacobsen's hysteria.
Further, assume it is a training run. Do the marshalls help them by identifying themselves and showing terrorists how to get marshalls to reveal themselves without doing anything prosecutable? There were plenty of ground personnel waiting to talk to the band, so somehow the word got out that there was something to look into but nothing to stop. Sounds like they did their job and Jacobsen should keep taking her Valium.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
07/26/2004 8:39 Comments ||
Top||
#17
Further, assume it is a training run. Do the marshalls help them by identifying themselves and showing terrorists how to get marshalls to reveal themselves without doing anything prosecutable?
So what you're saying is: the marshals should do nothing if they think they're watching a training run. How do you recognise the difference between a training run and the real thing? Marshals might be trained to be observant, but I doubt they're psychic.
There were plenty of ground personnel waiting to talk to the band, so somehow the word got out that there was something to look into but nothing to stop.
And where on earth would that assurance have come from?!
Let's face it - all that needed doing was the flight crew issuing instructions for all passengers to sit down (say 'turbulence is anticipated'), and keep things that way for the next couple of hours. If the suspicious customers refused to do so, they would be exposed and could be dealt with; if they sat down, so much the better. If the Syrians were 'probing' the marshals' responses, it wouldn't do much good - they'd be interrogated and investigated thoroughly, their links and associates tracked down, and they'd be deported, not to return, or incarcerated.
As I said before, all very fishy. Have any other passengers come forward to defend or contradict Jacobsen's version of events?
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/26/2004 10:14 Comments ||
Top||
#19
Jen: Aristotle, there's nothing to say that jihadis can't pretend to be a "band" when they're really terrorists.
Terrorism isn't a profession. They don't need to pretend. The hijackers on 9/11 were urban planners, engineers, et al. Arafat is an engineer. Zawahiri is a doctor. Bin Laden is an engineer. Zarqawi is an engineer. The talent pool from which terrorists draw presumably includes as many musicians as it does engineers as doctors.
Aris and some of the media making excuses for the band presumably believe that terrorists are illiterate villagers from rural areas. Not so. People from really poor areas have more practical concerns - such as feeding their families. Global jihad is not on their daily schedule. Neither is learning foreign languages nor traveling to distant countries.
#24
So what you're saying is: the marshals should do nothing if they think they're watching a training run. How do you recognise the difference between a training run and the real thing?
Except that they didn't do "nothing". As I explained, and as the article I linked to said, they checked the toilets to see if anything was happening. *Inconspicuously*. So that the possible terrorists couldn't know which passenger was an air-marshal who was checking the toilet, and which passenger just wanted to pee.
And as the article Davis linked to said, the FBI was contacted and background checks were being done on Syrians all the while (checks that *cleared* them). And as was further mentioned in those articles, the Syrians were then questioned and *again* cleared.
Is your concern really so great, Bulldog, about the invisible bomb that will magically be assembled in different toilets by fourteen different people?
If the Syrians had been preventing other customers from using the toilet between each of their visits, *then* it'd be a "try run" worth its money.
#25
RC, the visa issue is more complicated, and as Donald Sensing notes, visa authorization dates may differ from a visa expiration date.
I agree with Aris and Mr. Davis to a fair extent on this one: Ms. Jacobsen panicked. Her panic might well have made things worse. If air marshalls were on the scene, let them handle it, that's why they're there.
There are things we can do as citizens if we're ever confronted with a similar situation, things that are quiet, calm, careful and methodical in approach. We can very quietly prepare ourselves for the worst (soda can in a sock, etc). We can very quietly let the flight attendants know that something is amiss and that we're prepared. We can very quietly trust the professionalism of the flight crew.
What we can't do in panic, either on the plane or elsewhere. We have to be the calm, level-headed, smart ones that will take the right action at the right time.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/26/2004 11:30 Comments ||
Top||
#26
Aris, did you even bother reading the other article I linked to in #6? Duh. This is not the first incident of Arab folks scouting out airliners. And Annie Jacobsen was not on board the AA flight. A June 29 incident aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles is similar to a Feb. 15 incident on American Airlines Flight 1732 from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport.
And Aris, I assume you refer to the following comments made by NAMED airline PILOTS as "scare quotes"? Whereas you believe the soothing words of Mr. Sensing, who may be a good blogger but who IS NOT a pilot. Rightttttt.... Gary Boettcher, a member of the board of directors of the Allied Pilots Association, wrote to Mrs Jacobsen:this airborne event is not a singular nor isolated experience. Another pilot, Mark Bogosian, with American Airlines, said: "The incident you wrote about, and incidents like it, occur more than you like to think. It is a âdirty little secretâ that all of us, as crew members, have known about for quite some time."
Posted by: rex ||
07/26/2004 11:32 Comments ||
Top||
#27
I didn't say it was a dry run, Aris. I said the story seems fishy to me for a number of reasons.
And as the article Davis linked to said, the FBI was contacted and background checks were being done on Syrians all the while (checks that *cleared* them).
Oh that would make everything just hunky-dory, would it? Checks conducted in an hour or so based, presumably, on information provided by the passengers. Who believes such checks could be trusted to determine events in such a situation?
Is your concern really so great, Bulldog, about the invisible bomb that will magically be assembled in different toilets by fourteen different people?
You don't imagine there might be more than one device in such a situation?
If the Syrians had been preventing other customers from using the toilet between each of their visits, *then* it'd be a "try run" worth its money
Not at all. If you'd managed to get the components on board, each hidden within a small item of hand luggage, why would you need to conceal the device at all times? You'd assemble the parts in secret, but could transport the device, and transfer it between individuals, in the cabin.
#28
This is not the first incident of Arab folks scouting out airliners.
And this is not the first incident of innocent Arabs needing to use the bathroom either. So the general existence of Arabs scouting out airliners says nothing whatsoever about whether *these* particular Arabs were scouting out an airliner.
And Aris, I assume you refer to the following comments made by NAMED airline PILOTS as "scare quotes"?
No, by "scare quotes" I'm referring to the scare quotes around the word "musicians". They *were* musicians and that's a 100% certain fact. So deal.
If you think that they were *also* possible terrorists, that's a *different* question with a less certain answer. Just as Zhang Fei said, thinking that it applied to me, rather than the originator of the thread.
But the thing we know for certain is that they were indeed musicians. So no scare quotes around the word.
#29
You don't imagine there might be more than one device in such a situation?
I don't believe in invisible devices.
You'd assemble the parts in secret, but could transport the device, and transfer it between individuals, in the cabin.
Then you'd again see items being passed multiple times between individuals then heading to the bathroom, so if the air marshals had an eye on these people, they wouldn't need to be "psychics" (as you claimed) in order to know whether something possibly dangerous was going on or not. They'd just need to be observant.
There's something we can all agree on: That it was good that the air marshals kept an eye on these people, and such threats may exist for real in the future.
And there's a thing that we don't agree on, namely that these specific people were almost certainly innocent, and that Jacobsen was biased against them from the start which coloured all her later reactions.
For god's sake, Jacobsen describes how she was once terrified when she saw a group of Arab people in a car buying *lunch*, to the point that she took down the licence number of the vehicle. But now ofcourse she says that she regrets not telling the authorities about those horrible Arab people ordering lunch and *gasp* driving a car, and not actually doing anything suspicious.
Can you *really* not see how fricking paranoid and racist this person is, how predisposed to seeing everything as suspicious? She needs therapy.
#30
a) I can put quotes around the word musicians, Aris, because it is uncertain whether these Syrians were doing what they were doing on the plane because they were trained musicians or because they were AQ operatives. Fyi, I agree with Jacobsen's following observation and therefore and thusly I rightfully used quotes around the word "musicians:" "But I wonder, if 19 terrorists can learn to fly airplanes into buildings, couldnât 14 terrorists learn to play instruments?"
b) To offset Mr. Sensing's blog comments, why don't we read what Michelle Malkin had to say about the matter? Fair and balanced...if you want to ignore named pilots observations and only rely on bloggers' second hand take on the incident, Malkin deserves a read to counter balance Sensing. Look at Malkin's 7/25 comments and work backwards in dates. http://www.michellemalkin.com/
Posted by: rex ||
07/26/2004 11:59 Comments ||
Top||
#31
For god's sake, Jacobsen describes how she was once terrified when she saw a group of Arab people in a car buying *lunch*
Now I wasn't terrified but I will admit to gagging one hot summer day at the drive thru at abu flies.
#32
And there's a thing that we don't agree on, namely that these specific people were almost certainly innocent
No, that's something you're mistaken about, Aris. I don't believe this was a dry run. I think there are elements of the story that just don't add up, and that either Jacobsen is exaggerating what happened, or that the onboard security failed to respond appropriately to what (according to Jocobsen) did look highly suspicious.
They'd just need to be observant.
And have eyes not only in the back of their heads, but distributed throughout the aircraft and in the toilets. AFAIK, they can't observe everything, so, in an incident as described by Jacobsen, just acting inconspicuous wouldn't be enough - they should have stopped the activity. That's why I'm sceptical of Jacobsen's account - I think they would have done that.
#33
It's not me, rex, who's ignoring "named pilots'" opinions, it's *you* who's ignoring the observations of one of the ACTUAL air marshalls in the ACTUAL scene, rather than rely on "second hand takes".
Once you read his comments on Jacobsen, get back to me. Rather than pretend I'm relying on second hand opinions when it's you who's doing it.
And I don't find it surprising that you think Jacobsen's obvious apologetics for her racist paranoia is an actual argument worth mentioning.
#36
I think people who put their faith in the marshals are a little too trusting of their competence and a little too dismissive of the abilities of potential terrorists. The Israeli guy who co-founded Akamai, and was on one of the 9/11 flights, used to be part of an elite Israeli counter-terrorist strike force. He was stabbed by one guy with a knife who attacked him from behind. How did he not notice that guy? Was the terrorist well-camouflaged, or just well-prepared? Can any one or combination of these marshals hold a candle to the Israeli, a veteran of Israel's elite Sayaret, in terms of situational awareness? I don't think so.
#37
Why does anyone treat Aris with anything but the contempt he deserves?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/26/2004 12:51 Comments ||
Top||
#38
Katsaris, your whole argument is based on the presence of air marshals and their having the plane under their control, yet there was no sighting of marshals being there at all in Jacobsen's account.
Merely someone who said they were there.
And they seemingly had no power to do anything with the suspects while they were in the air.
And I have no idea what you're referring to about Annie and the " Arab lunch" thing--pure BS.
Ms. Jacobsen was merely relating that her travels to the Middle East had enured her to being frightened of Muslim males, not the opposite.
Katsaris, you can yap on all you want--and you do!--about the EU, but when it comes to matters of domestic security here in the United States, you don't know SHIT and would be doing yourself a favor and hiding your ignorance more by shutting up.
#39
just wasted bandwith posting responses to that idiot greek...
Posted by: Dan ||
07/26/2004 12:58 Comments ||
Top||
#40
Steve, I disagree. If "something" happens it won't be another takeover of a plane. More like the plane just blowing up in midair. Waiting for your chance with soda cans isn't going to help.
#41
Why Syrians are even be allowed to inter this country during these uncertain times is more a mystery to me than any of this.
Syria is currently fighting a proxy war with our troops along their border and in Falluja. Syria is occupying Lebanon that has jihadies as part of the fabric of that society. This is PC blindness and I'm disgusted by it.
The Visa application should have been denied on the grounds that the Syrians !could! (not are) be or have jihadie connections. It's not racist! It's anti jihadie, a geo-political threat. Syrians are up to their eyeballs in jihadies. Same goes for the whole islamic mid-east and I don't want them flying over my country while we are at war. If the crooner needs a band call an agent in LA and get some expats. Kind of goophy to be flying these guys out for a gig.
Jen is right about the internment of the Japannese. If you read their creation myth you would have done it to. Desperate times... And it was right to recompence them after the war for that too.
#42
Aris, you raise some good points. Jacobsen does seem a tad tense. However, if the 9/11 hijackers had been stopped or removed from the planes, your claims would likely have been the same. Some of those guys were, I believe, on some database somewhere, but who knows if the right database would have been checked given the "wall" between domestic and international issues. Preemption in these cases is almost always going to appear as though "innocent" persons were targeted. In this case, that may have been true. It does seem, however, from what the pilots have said, that probing is taking place. Unfortunately, we have to be on our guard and in doing so are going to step on some toes. Odd that you take such umbrage at that.
Posted by: remote man ||
07/26/2004 13:16 Comments ||
Top||
#43
There was an episode of Airline! on A&E where a group of passengers on a 737 had become unruly, terrifying their fellow passengers. It was a group of youths and one chaperone. They were running up and down the aisle, throwing stuff, and generally being idiots. They did not listen to the stewards, ignored the pilot in command, ignored the 'fasten seat belts sign' even after being warned of oncoming turbulence. Needless to say, they were met by Chicago cops when the plane landed. Only the chaperone was prevented from boarding the connecting flight. The other passengers got vouchers for having to endure the stress on the flight.
Had I been the pilot, I would have diverted the flight immediately, and asked for SWAT assistance upon landing. This pilot continued on to their destination.
The moral of this story is that there are hundreds of "incidents" that occur in the air during the course of running an airline, just ask the employees. Some are even worse than what Mrs. Jacobsen described. Focusing on Arabs or Muslim engineers is a splendid way of getting blindsided the next time a white, American convert to Islam decides to "take off" his shoes in mid-flight.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/26/2004 13:21 Comments ||
Top||
#44
Remember that James Woods spotted a group of young Arab men behaving oddly on a cross-country flight a week or two before 9/11. He actually watched them conduct their dry run. He commented on their behavior to a stewardess; I think he may have been interviewed, but only later, after the people his "racist paranoia" marked as odd had taken part in the murder of 3,000 people.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/26/2004 13:21 Comments ||
Top||
#45
Lucky raises 2 excellent points:
why are we still letting in Syrians with visas when we're at war in the Middle East and Syria isn't exactly an ally
and
Why aren't there enough American bands, real or fake, available to play this gig?
And these 14 men had bought one-way tickets (with cash, I think), another hallmark of the suicide jihadi attackers.
It makes you wonder if the airlines and the TSA changed anything after 9/11.
All I can say is, I'm not flying and won't.
If I can't get there by car, forget it!
#46
A recant on a single point -- the mention of the incident of the Arabs lunching was a mistake on my part: I had confused an incident commented on by a different blogger in regards to Jacobsen's article with Jacobsen's own words. So you can scratch that out with apologies.
#47
"Katsaris, your whole argument is based on the presence of air marshals and their having the plane under their control, yet there was no sighting of marshals being there at all in Jacobsen's account."
Which is kinda the point of "undercover" but if you'd followed the link I provided you'd go to the statements of the Federal Air Marshall's (named) spokesman who said quite clearly that there were several air marshalls on the plane who kept an eye on the Syrians and had decided that they would remain undercover, and which were more concerned with Jacobsen's own dangerous actions.
Crawford> Why does anyone treat Aris with anything but the contempt he deserves?
Whenever people disagree with you on which people are contemptible and which people aren't, that must certainly be evidence of a global conspiracy to piss you off, rather than signs of different people using different criteria than you in their judgment of other people.
#48
Krapsaris,Robert Crawford is right--you are majorly pissing me off.
The air marshals are clearly ineffectual and were afraid to do anything on that plane and as an American who watched 3,000 of my fellow citizens killed in cold blood on live TV, I don't appreciate you denigrating our collective informed fear!
The Muslim terrorists want to kill us again.
They want to kill more of us.
And they're going to keep trying.
To discredit this particular incident is getting you nowhere, but it's emblematic of the whole French/EU attitude that America is making stuff up about the whole war.
Fuck you, Aris and the rest of the French--laughing at we Yanks while they burn EUrope down behind your backs.
During WWII, the Greeks said nothing when the Nazis came to cart your Jews off to the camps.
#49
GreatJen: All I can say is, I'm not flying and won't.
The moment the pilot squawks 'hijacking', you can be sure to see F-16s in a matter of minutes. Depending on the plane's flight path and behavior, this probably means that you're dead anyway, no matter what happens in the cabin, and no matter how many security measures have been put in place by the airlines or TSA.
So, in a way you're right. If I had a choice between flying and driving, I would drive. Flying is a risky business. But then again, it always has been.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/26/2004 14:00 Comments ||
Top||
#50
Whenever people disagree with you on which people are contemptible and which people aren't, that must certainly be evidence of a global conspiracy to piss you off, rather than signs of different people using different criteria than you in their judgment of other people.
And whenever people show more concern over a threat than you do, it must be because they're racists and paranoid, right?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/26/2004 14:23 Comments ||
Top||
#51
"Krapsaris,Robert Crawford is right--you are majorly pissing me off."
And I should care because I respect what you think of me? Or perhaps because *you* had respect for me in the past? You are in a constant state of being pissed off with people who disagree with you, Jen: Nothing's different now.
"The air marshals are clearly ineffectual and were afraid to do anything on that plane"
They seemed quite effective to me. And I saw no sign of fear in their described actions.
"and as an American who watched 3,000 of my fellow citizens killed in cold blood on live TV, I don't appreciate you denigrating our collective informed fear!"
I didn't denigrate your collective informed fear. I denigrated some people's seeming incapacity for rational thought.
"The Muslim terrorists want to kill us again. They want to kill more of us. And they're going to keep trying."
True, true and true.
"To discredit this particular incident is getting you nowhere, but it's emblematic of the whole French/EU attitude that America is making stuff up about the whole war."
When people told the little boy, "Don't cry wolf", they weren't implying that wolves didn't exist, nor were they implying that wolves weren't actually trying to eat his sheep, nor did they mean to say that wolves aren't dangerous.
It was the opposite: Wolves *were* dangerous, and wolves *might* try to eat his sheep, which was all the more reason not to overreact or lie. If all passengers tended to overreact like Jacobsen did, and all flights had to deal with wackos like Jacobsen, please tell me: who would pay attention when a rational person noticed *actual* signs of danger? They would be shrugged off because for every actual case of hijacking you'd have 1000 Jacobsen's to deal with and calm down.
If you don't know how to separate fiction from reality, when reality does come around you won't have the tools to fight it.
Seven people using seven different toilets is somehow a sign of danger? Explain *that* to me, Jen.
"Fuck you, Aris and the rest of the French--laughing at we Yanks while they burn EUrope down behind your backs. During WWII, the Greeks said nothing when the Nazis came to cart your Jews off to the camps."
Greece lost half a million in WW2, so I don't appreciate your denigration of other people's sacrifices either. But I already have the contempt for you that I only reserve for worms, so you can't fall any more in my estimation.
#52
And whenever people show more concern over a threat than you do, it must be because they're racists and paranoid, right?
This particular person is racist and paranoid, because she has described no reason for her fear other than the skin-color (or if you want to be more accurate, the general ethnic ancestry as seen on their facial features) of the people involved.
#53
The men who hijacked the planes on 9/11 and killed 3,000 Americans were all Muslims, from Middle Eastern countries, with swarthy skin, dark hair and dark eyes.
Given that their holy book tells them to kill "infidels" with impunity and indeed blessings from their religion, is reason enough to profile Arab Muslim males, with some suspicion being given to Arab Muslim females and others who profess to be Muslims.
Islam is a political system as well as a religion.
To "discriminate" them in racial profiling is neither rascist nor paranoid.
Even it if is, I would rather be safe than sorry and I expect my representatives in Washington to hear about this!
If America can't be "free" enough for these bastards to wage their jihad in my country, that's too bad.
#56
To "discriminate" them in racial profiling is neither rascist nor paranoid.
Too bad that we are NOT talking about mere discrimination in racial profiling, (which I *haven't* commented on, pro or against), we are talking instead about a woman going completely hysterical in an airplane. And not just that, but then describing her experience (mainly synopsized as "darkies needing to use the bathroom") as if it was a traumatic near-death experience, rather than just feeling relieved (and perhaps slightly embarrassed) that nothing bad happened. Four and half hours of terror, according to her.
And we are also talking about a woman in this forum who is insisting that the air marshals were too ineffective -- but since nothing bad happened in the airplane, I'm not sure how she defines their "ineffectiveness".
They made sure that the Syrian men were no danger -- which means they were obviously ineffective in determining what Jen has determined beyond any possibility of a doubt by the mere fact of reading a single biased one-sided account.
And not just that but also calling US officials cowardly to act on the basis of *nothing*. Are you sure you're not anti-American, Jen? Because in this thread it's me who says that the American officials acted as they should, and it's you who's saying that they didn't.
There are several lessons to be learned from this little fiasco. #1, no matter what official government policy may be, we understand that in light of 9/11, it is WISE to look askew at ANY "unnatural" conduct made aboard a flight. It is DOUBLY WISE to look askew at unnatural conduct made by Middle Eastern men.
If anyone associated with this flight should be chastised for this instance, its *NOT* Annie (the reporter who relayed the story). Instead, its the flight crew, who acknowledged being concerned, but made no VISIBLE actions to relieve the concerns of those aboard. If flight crews wish us, the flying public, to believe that they have some sort of "authority" while aboard a flight, we damn well expect them to EXERT that authority when the situation demands it.
Finally, it blows me away that anyone can so easily dismiss that all 14 of them were from a terrorist-supporting state, that their visas were expired, and that their conduct fits no known pattern of "normal" flight behavior. Tell me, Aris, when was the last time that you and 13 of your friends took turns congregating at the back of an airline while more or less continuously occupying the onboard bathroom?
I hope to God that the reporting of incidents like this alerts the American people. If the various government agencies and the airline personel are not interested in defending the passengers, I guess we're going to have to do it ourselves.
#58
There is a larger issue that I don't hear discussed much in the duststorm around Jacobsen's article, although it's been hinted at.
Namely, that there is every reason to believe that we are in for decades of global instability and conflict, with terror tactics a likely central player. Since the reasons for a generation or more of conflict are structural to the information revolution, the instability will go on with or without the defeat of Islamacist fundamentalism.
Nanotech may provide an answer to the extreme global imbalances we see in productivity, wealth and freedom, once it matures. The reality is that failed economies and societies (like those that characterize pretty much the entire Muslim world) are going to find it very very difficult to compete successfully even in traditional manufacturing industries; only a truly radical change in production technologies, like nanotech, has any chance of bridging the gap.
But even if the technology were there, the resulting social dislocation would most likely continue to provide an excuse for terror violence against those who have innovated and prospered in the post-industrial world -- and above all, head and shoulders above all, that means the United States.
The result? we - the US and those countries whose success begins to approach ours - will face potential attacks on airlines, railroads, cities, ports and other infrastructure for a long time. So we had better a) take the threat seriously and b) get beyond a single ethnic or other profile in our threat analysis and response.
Ironically, if there are enough successful attacks on e.g. airlines, it will only spur greater innovation on the part of the US. A lot of air travel is for business purposes that could be accomplished other ways, if there were sufficient need. As usual, the terrorists are quite likely to exacerbate the very chasm they resent.
In the meanwhile, the threat of attacks is real and it is not transitory .... so let's get serious about identifying and responding to that threat. Short term hysteria is counterproductive. But so too is the complacency many have as a result of success so far in preventing attempted attacks since 9/11.
#59
rkb - the root cause of terrorism is never poverty. It's often used as an excuse, but you'll never find an impoverished culture or society resorting to terrorism without a very malignant (usually left-wing) idelolgy directing action that way. It's the mindset that espouses terrorism that needs to be targeted, not the poverty itself. And to 'treat' poverty as a response to terrorism is just another form of appeasement...
I'd like to see poverty reduced, sure, but not in any relation whatsoever to violence against the west.
#60
Great points, rkb.
Isn't it ironic and strange that the jihadis can master enough "tech" to put up web sites where they can air beheading videos, but that their nanotech skills, which should have been applied first to improving the scholerotic economies of the Middle East, seem to end there.
#61
Jen, "nanotech" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means -- it certainly has nothing to do with the Internet or with websites.
rkb> I'll agree with Bulldog on this -- this is religious fascism and imperialism, not poverty's that's to blame. And terrorism is just a means of that religious imperialism.
#62
rkb commented on how poverty was the root cause of Islamist terrorism. It isn't. Zealotry is. Most of the terrorists are relatively well-educated people, literate and able to function in modern societies. Moussaoui, the most dysfunctional of the 9/11 terrorists, had several years of college, more than the average American. Sure, his English is lousy, but his mother tongue is French. Sure, some illiterate Pakistanis and Afghans joined the Taliban as guerrillas as a means of escaping their meager existences. But most of the really capable people - the guys able to do real damage, are, as in the military, pretty sharp people. Arafat, Zarqawi and bin Laden are all engineers. Zawahiri is a doctor. Marwan al-Shehhi, the lead hijacker, had a masters degree in urban planning. These guys are sharp, and they're definitely not going hungry.
#63
Aris that last was a cheap shot.
Funny... but a cheap shot.
Beside in the future nano engines will help scholerotic veins.
Posted by: Lumpy R ||
07/26/2004 18:03 Comments ||
Top||
#64
It is true that the terrorists are not motivated by personal poverty, but rkb is right that there is the larger problem of countries and peoples who can't really compete with western technological societies. These countries and regions are dysfunctional in a variety of ways. They are breeding grounds for extremist ideologies, and I too believe that this phenomenon will endure for decades.
#65
This particular person is racist and paranoid, because she has described no reason for her fear other than the skin-color (or if you want to be more accurate, the general ethnic ancestry as seen on their facial features) of the people involved.
Bullshit, Aris. You're ignoring their behavior, which had much more to do with her suspicion AND THEIR SUBSEQUENT INTERROGATION than their skin tone.
But, hey, you gotta cling to that position desperately, eh? Even after you admit you confused what someone ELSE wrote with what Jacobsen wrote.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/26/2004 18:24 Comments ||
Top||
#66
virginian: it is true that the terrorists are not motivated by personal poverty, but rkb is right that there is the larger problem of countries and peoples who can't really compete with western technological societies. These countries and regions are dysfunctional in a variety of ways. They are breeding grounds for extremist ideologies, and I too believe that this phenomenon will endure for decades.
The average Chinese / Cambodian / Vietnamese / Filipino / Indian / Indonesian worker is poorer than most people in Arab countries. The problem isn't poverty - it's an ideology that believes that everything the West ever achieved is based on theft and deceit, and it is the Muslim birthright to recover the fruits of this theft from the West, not by hard work, but by taking it, much as Muhammad's descendants took huge swathes of Central Asia, North Africa and the Levant. They believe in empire, except that when Muslims are doing it, they are merely fulfilling the will of God.
It's like Communism - defeat the ideology by outproducing it, preventing it from taking over any more governments and the danger is over. Communists did not become more radical as they became poorer - they saw the light and came in from the cold. We need to prevent Islamists from becoming stronger, and they will eventually implode from the inside. Think of Afghanistan as the Korean War and Iraq as Vietnam, except this time, we get to win Vietnam, because the Commander-in-Chief does what it takes to win. The War on Terror is like a compressed Cold War, except that we have already won two major campaigns.
#67
Zhang Fei, I don't disagree with anything you said. I am just trying to point out that jihadism and dysfunctional states are interrelated problems. I see the Iraq war as an attempt to do something about one of these states.
#68
virginian: Zhang Fei, I don't disagree with anything you said. I am just trying to point out that jihadism and dysfunctional states are interrelated problems. I see the Iraq war as an attempt to do something about one of these states.
Iraq is absolutely part of the solution, but whether or not it is fixed up, Muslim governments have taken notice - if they tolerate terrorist movements, they may suffer Saddam's fate. What I was pointing out is the zealotry, not dysfunction is the problem - Saudi Arabia, one of the richest states in Islam, is the biggest incubator of terrorists around, whereas Indonesia, one of the poorest and most dysfunctional Muslim states is not, along with Cameroun, Senegal or any of the other poverty-stricken African Muslim states. The problem isn't poverty - it's zealotry.
#69
The issue with recognizing that zealotry is the problem is this becomes a war with Islam - not all of it certainly - but that's how it will be perceived by the other side. This is why we beat about the bush with excuses like WMD's, human rights violations, et al. Better to skirt over the whole issue. Muslim rulers will get the message. And by and large, they have, which accounts for their improved cooperation with the US. The only thing they need to understand is that they want to stay off the enemies list. When September 11 occurred, Afghanistan and Iraq were on that list. Libya got itself off that list by cooperating on WMD's. The next country on that list will be hit if another big event like 9/11 occurs in the continental US. This time, the target will likely be Iran - and Gaddafi will be congratulating himself that he made a deal before the new atrocity occurred.
#70
Disregarding any misguided notions about connections between poverty and terrorism, rkb's point still stands about the technology gulf and increased productivity's link to quality of life. I applaud virginian's synopsis of that topic.
Zhang Fei, as usual, you are calling the shots rather well. Zealotry is the core issue. Your comparison to communism is absolutely SPOT-ON. All of your analogies apply and we are fighting the same sort of virulently infectious meme.
The longer Islam waits to purge violent jihadis from their ranks, the more this becomes an actual war on Islam. Muslims of every stripe seem both unable and unwilling to comprehend this simple fact. They seem to believe the mantle of religious freedom that has so graciously been draped over them by free-thinking Western societies will not be withdrawn after a sufficient number of atrocities. Islam is in for a rude awakening. The longer they remain somnolent about this simple fact, the worse their casualties will be when the gloves come off.
#71
It is true that Saudi Arabia is not exactly dysfunctional. It functions as a medieval state. Unfortunately in the context of modern technological civilzation, that simply won't do. It can't maintain its own technically complex oil infrastructure without foreign assistance. It uses its vast wealth to export a medieval ideology. It's not dysfunctional, it's not exactly a rogue state, it's not exactly a failed state, but it's definitely a problem state.
#72
I am obliged to disagree, virginian. Because financing and facilitation of terrorism extends to the very highest levels within the House of Saud, it most definitely qualifies as a Rogue State.
Whether it is Prince Turki al-Faisal's links to bin Laden and mullah Omar or Crown Prince Abdullah attributing al Qaeda operations to Zionist conspiracy, all levels of Saudi society appear to be infested invested with the sort of credulous mindset only a dictator could love.
The House of Saud's deal with the Wahabbist devil is most damning of all. Their unrestrained preaching of anti-west dogma to each year's successive rank of recruits (many flown in at the Royals' expense on their private jets), is precisely what has bred up this massive popular base of Islamic support for terrorism.
Saudi Arabia has much to answer for. While American petrochemical investment helped propel the House of Saud into control, it in no way excuses such flaccid internal security regarding an internal threat to a putatively vital ally.
Should it turn out America has never been regarded (or treated) as a significant global ally, then that becomes proof positive of duplicitous intent all along. All differences between traitor and rogue state dissolve at that point. Saudi Arabia has been on an asymptotic approach to that barrier of dissolution for decades. At some point their intimate proximity to so much of terrorism's operative and financial baseline erodes any distinction between the two.
When do they reach that place? I think they're beyond the point of no return as it stands. The doubly ingrained sense of entitlement that results from, not only Islam's putative pre-existing claim upon much of the world's civilization, but also from the Saudi Royals' profligate lifestyle has galvanized an entire society into a gold-plated Midas mentality despite the near-total absence of skill base or recent achievements.
Only the most irresponsible sort of pseudo-leadership willingly allows their subjects to stagnate so abjectly in the midst of so much wealth. It has served as a form of control to segregate the average Saudi citizen from all mission critical work in the refineries. While this is now coming back to haunt them, it remains totally addictive as a way of preventing significant interference with the flow of wealth into the royal treasury.
The House of Saud has single-handedly spawned a most vicious form of pseudo-religious intolerance all through the craven desire for material gain and little else. America did not inculcate this modus operendi either by suggestion or example. As all of the terrorist pigeons finally come home to roost the Royals will be buried, not with sand or soil, but guano.
#73
Ok, call it a rogue state then. (Sorry this thread has gotten so off topic, but since probably nobody's reading it at this point, who cares?) It's difficult to find a common term for all the types of dysfunction and roguery that abound in the world. The point is, Islamic terrorism and bad state actors are an intertwined problem. There are many, some having a convention tonight, who would have us believe that they will restore the proper perspective to our foreign policy, in which the WoT is a low intensity conflict, best handled by law enforcement and maybe a few special forces. They get away with this false shift of perspective by decoupling terrorism from state actors. In reality we are or eventually will be in conflict with a number of these states, not just the terrorists that they support.
#75
Please excuse me, this point was not properly made:
The House of Saud's deal with the Wahabbist devil is most damning of all. Their unrestrained preaching of anti-west dogma to each year's successive rank of recruits (many flown in at the Royals' expense on their private jets), is precisely what has bred up this massive popular base of Islamic support for terrorism.
I meant to point out that the House of Saud flies in all these raw novitiates FOR EACH NEW HAJ without ensuring that they are not infected with the Islamist meme. They surrender these greenhorns over to people they know to be the most anti-American of all. That is duplicity and I'm confident that we are in violent agreement, virginian.
#79
Les Nessman: Sure, you could say it "sounds fishy". But I could remind you:
1) They overstayed their visas;
2) They behaved in a manner that cannot even be pretended to be "normal passenger behavior";
3) The Federal Air Marshalls released a statement this morning backing Annie's version of the events, and concluding that she was right to raise a concern.
#80
Crusader
1. Yep, that is bad. Of course, so do tens of thousands of other foreigners, because they know the INS won't do shit about it.
2. Yep, I agree.
3. She was right to 'raise a concern'. I would have 'raised a concern', too. My spidey-sense is tingling due to the way she describes some of the details, and the supposedly 'obvious' 'fact' that these guys were truly 100% terrorists.
I'm telling you; I would be very suprised if the events happened exactly like Annie said. I'll bet you a dollar it did not happen exactly as she said.
Posted by: Les Nessman ||
07/28/2004 0:32 Comments ||
Top||
Authorities yesterday threatened to shut down 21 Islamic boarding schools in the deep South and throw their owners in jail, after accusing them of being breeding grounds for militants. Intelligence information indicated that students and teachers from the 21 schools, known locally as pondoks, have been involved in creating violence in the region, Deputy Education Minister Sutham Saengprathoom said. The Education Ministry will summon the schools' owners and teachers to ask for their cooperation in the detection of militant movements in their respective schools, he said. If the owners refuse to cooperate, they will be imprisoned for six months or fined Bt50,000 - or both, he said, adding that the schools will also be shut down.
Of the 21 schools, five are in Yala while there are eight each in Pattani and Narathiwat. The government has clear information that teachers at two of the schools have indoctrinated their students with anti-government sentiment, Sutham said. He said staff at the two schools were indirectly involved in violence in the region. "Within a couple of days the ministry will summon owners and teachers of the two schools first, and the other 19 will be called later when we find clear information," he said. Sutham declined to name the two schools in question.
The results have been announced in the first round of Indonesia's presidential elections. But the day was marred by a small bomb planted in the headquarters of the country's election commission.As expected, former Indonesian security minister Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono will face President Megawati Sukarnoputri in a September runoff.
He's the former "security minister", remember that.
The head of Indonesia's election commission announced that the winner of the first round of voting was Mr. Yudhoyono. With 33.6 percent of the vote, he was well in front of the incumbent, President Megawati, who captured 26.6 percent.
The announcement of the results of the first round of voting was delayed for several hours after a small bomb exploded at the election commission offices. No one was injured in the blast, which did minor damage to a ladies toilet in the building in central Jakarta.
Police reports say it seems to have been a large firecracker. There was a phoned in warning 30 minutes ahead, but it went off before the full bomb squad arrived. No injuries, but they had to evacuate the building. The building where they were counting the votes. After which, the "security forces" bomb squad checked the building and made sure the building and the ballots were "secure" while "security forces" guarded the building.
No one has claimed responsibility for the explosion, but Vice President Hamzah Haz told reporters that he believed it was planted by people who wanted to sabotage the democratic process. He did not elaborate.
"I can say no more. Well, I could, but I like breathing."
Posted by: Steve ||
07/26/2004 3:03:10 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Please don't use Explosion Mars in a headline, that is my gig.
You may, however use RoseBud for non-profit purposes.
Posted by: H G Smells ||
07/26/2004 19:58 Comments ||
Top||
Indonesia is likely to proceed with the executions of three men convicted for the Bali bombings in 2002 and continue holding 30 others serving lesser sentences despite a ruling that implied their convictions under a new terrorism law were unconstitutional. Jimly Asshiddiqie, the chief justice of Indonesia's new constitutional court, held a rare briefing for foreign journalists on Monday to make it clear the ruling would not affect the cases of the Bali bombers.
The constitutional court on Friday threw out a law that had allowed an anti-terrorism statute introduced after the bombings in 2002 - in which 202 people were killed - to be applied retroactively so it could be applied to the bombers. But the chief justice said Friday's ruling could itself not be applied retroactively. He said that meant cases still awaiting appeals might be affected, but the cases of those individuals whose avenues of appeal had been exhausted would not. All the cases "decided when the law was valid are still valid", he said.
Now that's a interesting legal loophole.
Of the 33 people convicted for the Bali bombings, 28 have already had their routes of appeal exhausted.
A senior judicial official argued that in special cases, judges would still be able to allow the use of the new terrorism laws on crimes committed before its introduction, as long as standard criminal laws were also used. That could affect future prosecutions including that of Abu Bakar Bashir, the detained radical cleric accused of leading Jemaah Islamiah, the al-Qaeda-linked group blamed for the Bali bombings. Police have said they plan to charge him under the terrorism laws.
A lawyer for the Bali suspects, Wirawan Adnan, said the question of whether the court's decision applies to individual cases may have to be decided by the country's Supreme Court. But he also said chances of successfully challenging convictions now appeared "slim."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/26/2004 8:58:19 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
The interrogation of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has produced intelligence that appears to contradict previous U.S. government claims regarding a thwarted plot to bomb U.S. airliners over the Pacific Ocean. The new intelligence relates to Abdul Hakim Murad, who was convicted of conspiring with Ramzi Yousef to bomb U.S. airliners over the Pacific Ocean in the plot, known as "Operation Bojinka." A predecessor to the September 11 attacks, the Bojinka plot was constructed from November 1994 through January 1995, the exact period that convicted Oklahoma City bomber Terry Nichols took an unusual trip to Philippines.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/26/2004 12:53:21 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
In spring 1993, an FBI informant uncovered an al Qaeda-linked plan to crash an airplane into the U.S. embassy in Cairo. In testimony little noted during a 1995 court case, FBI informant Emad Salem testified that a Sudanese national, Siddig Ibrahim Siddig Ali, asked him to assist a plot in which a Sudanese Air Force pilot would first bomb the home of Egyptian president Hosni Mubarek from his airplane then crash the plane into the American Embassy. While it appears the plot never advanced past the discussion stage, the incident is yet another case in which the U.S. government had specific information that terrorists were planning to use an airplane as a missile.
According to Salem, an informant integral to FBI efforts to crack a New York terror cell in 1993, Siddig Ali asked Salem to help the alleged pilot find "gaps in the air defense in Egypt so he can drive to bomb the presidential house, and then turn around, crash the plane into the American embassy after he eject himself out of the plane (...) ." Salem was also asked to assist the pilot in escaping. Salem testified that he informed his contacts in the Egyptian government of the threat.
Abdo Haggag, an Egyptian spy testifying on behalf of the U.S. government, told the court the alleged pilot received a fatwa from radical Egyptian Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman approving the operation as early as 1992. The alleged pilot was not arrested or charged when the rest of Rahman-linked New York City cell was apprehended in June 1993, and it's not clear whether the plot had any credible basis. The NYC cell had numerous links to al Qaeda and is now believed to have been an al Qaeda operation. It's not clear where the alleged pilot lives now, and it's also unclear if the allegations made in court had any basis in fact. Defense lawyers during the trial claimed the supposed pilot was a U.S. cab driver and that the plot was fanciful.
Ramzi Yousef, who was extensively linked to the NYC cell, also planned to crash an airplance into CIA headquarters, as part of Project Bojinka, a plot he was preparing to executive in the Philippines in 1994 and 1995 before his hideout was exposed to the authorities.
The case is US v Omar Abdel Rahman, et al, S5 93 Cr. 181 (MBM), testimony of Emad Salem, March 21, 1995.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/26/2004 12:55:31 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Yup. This was one of several scenarios many agreed that Islamacist or other groups could potentially use to attack the US.
But the question is, what to do with that information when it was given?
We're seeing how controversial security measures can be even after 9/11. And how expensive, both to implement and in the way that they discourage some to fly at all (which has economic impacts).
Could measures have realistically been put in place earlier? Which of the many potential attacks of other kinds will we conclude -- after they are successful -- that we were too lax about?
Finding the right balance is going to be as much a matter of luck as of will or attention.
#2
Could measures have realistically been put in place earlier?
Probably, although given the length ot time between the "warning" and 2001 was a long seven years. Public patience with more drastic security measures absent a 9/11/2001 disaster would have worn thin rather quickly, and would have likely led to relaxation of the more strict measures or their discontinuation entirely.
#3
Of note I believe is that, at that time (in the context of the first WolrdTrade Center bombing trials in the mid-90s), Emad Salem was widely impugned as an unreliable informant.
Hindus and Muslims clashed in Gujarat on Monday, throwing stones and torching shops in riots that killed one person and injured 12 before police scattered the mob with tear gas. Senior government official A.C. Rathore told Reuters the violence was triggered by a Muslim boy teasing a Hindu girl. "The clashes started after an eve-teasing incident involving a Muslim boy," he said, using a common phrase for offensive remarks made to a woman. "Details are sketchy at the moment, though several incidents of arson have been reported." Gujarat has suffered sporadic religious clashes since 2002, when it was convulsed by India's worst religious riots in nearly a decade. Authorities have rushed in additional police forces to defuse the violence in the port town of Veraval, 350 km southwest of Ahmedabad, and imposed a curfew until Tuesday morning. "Initial reports are not worrisome. But we are not taking any chances," said state police chief A.K. Bhargav. More than 1,000 people, most of them Muslim, died in Gujarat in 2002 in a series of reprisal attacks after a suspected Muslim mob set fire to a train and burnt alive 59 Hindus. Non-government groups put the toll in that violence at more than 2,500.
Separatist rebels decapitated a 55-year-old man and his two children in Indian Kashmir because they suspected them of being informers for security forces, police said on Monday.
In another incident, separatists aimed a grenade at soldiers visiting a hospital in northern Kashmir, wounding 26 civilians and two soldiers.
Insurgents in Iraq have shot dead a top Interior Ministry official, one of eight people killed in a series of car bombs and assassinations. The surge of attacks on Monday was seen as mounting a fresh security challenge to the interim government ahead of a major political gathering expected this week.
The U.S. military said a suicide car bomb exploded outside an American base near the northern city of Mosul, killing an Iraqi woman, her child and an Iraqi guard. Three U.S. soldiers and two Iraqi security staff were wounded. The military said the car was packed with mortar shells, but these did not detonate, lessening the impact.
In Baghdad, gunmen shot Mussab al-Awadi, a senior official in charge of tribal affairs, as he left his house, an Interior Ministry source said. Two bodyguards were also killed. Gunmen also opened fire on five women who work as cleaners for U.S. firm Bechtel in the southern city of Basra, killing two and wounding two others, one survivor said. The women were waiting for a bus to take them to work when they were attacked. "I pretended to be dead so they didnât shoot me. I was covered in the blood of my friends," said an emotional Montaha Khalil, who was unhurt.
Insurgents have stepped up suicide car bombings, assassinations and kidnappings since a brief lull when the interim government took over from U.S.-led occupiers on June 28. Police said no one was hurt in a separate car bombing in Baghdad, which coincided with several mortar attacks that wounded one person. A bomb also exploded under a car in Tikrit, north of Baghdad, wounding several people, police said.
Despite the violence, Iraq has said it will push ahead later this week with a national conference aiming to give Iraqis a real say in how their country is run. The United Nations has pushed for a delay, saying more time is needed to prepare for an event that will bring together 1,000 Iraqis from across the country to select a 100-member National Council to oversee the interim government until elections next year. It is due to kick off about July 28 and will last two or possibly three days, officials have said.
Guerrillas have repeatedly targeted Iraqis they accuse of collaborating with U.S. forces or firms operating in the country. Insurgents bent on undermining the interim government have also stepped up their campaign of hostage- taking to increase pressure on foreign troops and companies to leave. A group holding seven foreign truck drivers said it had extended the deadline for talks to spare them and repeated a demand that their Kuwaiti employer pull out of Iraq.
The hostages -- three Indians, three Kenyans and an Egyptian -- were seized last week by a little-known group calling itself the "Black Banners" brigade of the Islamic Secret Army. In a videotape released on Monday, a masked group member flanked by two armed and masked men read a statement behind the kneeling hostages, who were dressed in white smocks. It was not clear what they now considered to be the deadline, which has already been extended once. Their firm, the Kuwait and Gulf Link Transport Company, said on Sunday it had received assurances the captives would be freed.
Arabic television channel Al Jazeera showed identity cards and video footage on Monday of what appeared to be two Pakistanis seized in Iraq at the weekend by a group which threatened to kill them and an Iraqi taken with them. A senior Egyptian diplomat was also seized on Friday. Dozens of foreigners have been taken hostage since April. Some have been freed, but at least six have been killed by their captors, four of them by beheading.
In fresh pressure on U.S. allies, an Internet statement purportedly from a militant group on Monday threatened to attack Italy if it did not withdraw its 2,700 troops from Iraq. The same website on Saturday carried a statement signed by another group claiming to be a branch of al Qaeda in Europe warning Italy and Australia of "columns of rigged cars" if they did not pull troops out of Iraq. Australia, with 850 troops in and around Iraq, said it would ignore the threats.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/26/2004 9:00:02 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
Terrorists who have sought refuge in Pakistan are still reportedly in active contact with ousted Taliban chief Mullah Omar. The Nation quoted sources as saying that the arrest and subsequent interrogation of suspected Al-Qaeda members in Gujarat on Sunday that some important revelations had come to light. The sources said a huge quantity of explosive material was recovered from the custody of the alleged terrorists. Foreign currency notes including US dollars and Euro bonds worth eight million dollars in Pak rupees were also recovered from the house they were residing in. A room in the house had a modern network system and world maps in English, Urdu and Arabic language. The law enforcement agencies also took into custody a mobile SIM and some imported food articles from the room.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/26/2004 9:01:12 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
some imported food articles ?
Sounds like a BLU-1.99(v) coupon dispenser weapon maybe landed nearby.
Militants linked to Al Qaeda killed two Pakistani paramilitary soldiers in a remote tribal region close to the Afghan border, officials said on Monday. An official in the Orakzai tribal agency, around 90 km (50 miles) south of the border city of Peshawar, said one of the suspected attackers had been caught, but his foreign accomplice was still hiding. The two men carried out the attack on a security post in the Ghuzdarra area of Orakzai on Sunday afternoon. The Orakzai agency is around 200 km (120 miles) north of South Waziristan, scene of some of the fiercest clashes in recent months between security forces and al-Qaeda linked foreign militants and their allies among the local tribes.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/26/2004 9:04:02 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
A South African was one of three terror suspects from Africa captured after a gun battle, the Pakistan government said on Monday. The others were from Kenya and Sudan. After a 12-hour shootout at a suspected militant hide-out in eastern Pakistan, it was not immediately clear whether they had links with al-Qaeda, a government spokesperson said in Islamabad on Monday.
Just simple religious students, there to study the holy Koran at the feet of the masters...
But the Pakistan Daily Times quoting intelligence sources, reported on its website on Monday that the 12 people were "suspected of links with al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups". It named a South African only as Saleem. "We saw this on the news on Monday morning and are trying to establish whether there is a South African involved," said Sarel van Zyl, South Africa's acting high commissioner in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad. So far Pakistani authorities had been unable to confirm this, he said.
"So tell us, Saleem: you've got 39 passports. Which is the real one?"
A senior Iraqi interior ministry official has reportedly been shot dead in Baghdad while six other Iraqis have been killed in separate incidents around the country. Mussab al-Awadi was shot along with two of his bodyguards as he left his house in the capital, ministry officials said.
Four people, including a child, were killed in a suicide bombing at an American military base in the northern city of Mosul. Five others were wounded in the blast. In another attack in Basra, two women working at a British run airport were killed and two others wounded when their minibus was ambushed. Meanwhile, seven foreign truckers kidknapped by insurgents have had a deadline for their execution extended. The kidnappers had threatened to start killing the three Indians, three Kenyans and an Egyptian, snatched last Wednesday, today. But a statement from the group, calling themselves Holders of the Black Banners, said that the executions would be delayed to allow negotiations to continue. The kidnappers have demanded that the Kuwaiti haulage firm that employs the seven truckers halt its operations in Iraq.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
07/26/2004 7:25:41 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
About 60 members of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry are heading to Afghanistan on Monday for six months. These soldiers, part of the 3rd Battalion and 600 other soldiers from Western Canada will replace a battalion from Quebec's Royal 22nd Regiment. Their duties will include assisting patrols in the Kabul area and one set of 15 soldiers will help train members of the new Afghan army. One corporal believes this battle group will find a friendlier climate in Afghanistan compared to the hostilities faced in 2002, but that could change with a fall election approaching. In late June, suspected Taliban guerrillas stopped a bus in the southern province of Uruzgan and killed 16 people who were carrying voter registration cards. Prime Minister Paul Martin has said Canada will maintain a scaled-back military presence in Afghanistan at least until the summer of 2005. A token presence at best, but probably all that Canada can afford.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/26/2004 1:55:16 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Perhaps token, true -- but what will they actually be doing? I won't complain about troop training, patrol and election protection duties.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
07/26/2004 3:09 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Hopefully a few ore snipers.Those Canuck snipers gave a good accounting of the bad guys.
#3
I agree, Rafael, this is as good as it gets for what Canada has to offer Afghanistan. That idiot Chretien so decimated the Cdn. military that if there were an emergency[terrorism] in the country, at best or so I read, Canada could scramble 5000 men to respond the crisis. Think about it - a country of over 30 Million people with a broad sea-to-sea area and Canada has 5000 military on hand to cope. No doubt the USA would help, but that's not the point. The Liberal Party of Canada wasted tons of $ on useless crap like there was no tomorrow. Gun registry,Romanow medicare report, bullying in public schools report, museum in Chretien's backwater hometown...hopeless...zero for the military.
Yes, #2, Canadian snipers are the best!
Posted by: rex ||
07/26/2004 11:19 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Rex my understanding is the Canada has 9 battalions of active duty infantry.... 3 deployed, 3 training and 3 nearly ready. Is that true or exaggerated?
If it wasn't an olympic year, (outfitting a team is staggering) I'd bet Canada could double that. Hopefully, there wont be any more NATO commitments for awhile, eh?
#9
Not Canadian, but they have exceeded the contributions of the French and other "so called" allies in Afganistan.
Posted by: Capt America ||
07/26/2004 15:44 Comments ||
Top||
#10
#4, Three infantry regiments of three battalions each. Three armoured regiments - upgraded Leopard 3s (I think). Then like a dozen or so reserver regiments that exist mostly on paper - maybe another two or three battalions combined.
We had about a 1,000 troops in Afghanistan in 2001. The troops leaving now are the second rotation of 2,000.
Our contribution is small (and shameful) BUT, even during the Iraq War we had the largest military presence in the mid east after the US and the UK (ie more than the Aussies). Not bad for being against the war!
#11
Anon5902, you may be right. Chretien never confirmed or denied that Canadian soldiers were involved in such operations as AWACS, for instance.
And it was the Canadian special forces escorting the perps from Afghanistan to Gitmo, as that famous photo revealed (Toronto Star??). Nothing to do with Iraq, but a little-known fact nonetheless.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/26/2004 17:36 Comments ||
Top||
#12
We could use some Canadiens in Iraq, eh. It's the right thing to do yet Canada turns away, why?
When the Iran thing hits the fan will Canada, it's people, be ready or will they snoot?
EIGHT suspected members of a breakaway Tamil Tiger faction were shot as they slept at a rebel safe-house in the Sri Lankan capital Colombo yesterday, in an attack blamed on the months-old split in the senior ranks of the rebel leadership.
Darn; it would have been nice for them to wake up just at the last moment. Then they could have fully appreciated the word, "terror".
A Tamil website said those killed were supporters of the renegade Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) commander Vinayagamoorthy Muralitharan, known as "Karuna", and included one of his deputies. There was no sign of a gunfight at the isolated house where the men were found dead on mats on the floor, police officer Wickrama Perera said. The killings appeared to have been carried out by someone inside the house, Mr Perera said. He added: "There is no evidence of a clash, or that someone has entered the house."
Brilliant, Holmes, brilliant.
The rebels said Muralitharan loyalists killed their sleeping comrades and then surrendered to the mainstream organisation. One of the victims, identified only as Kuganesan, was the second-in-command in the faction, the rebels said on their website devoted to the island's peace efforts. "The killings are confirmed, but we can't say who is dead and who is responsible," a police official said.
Two people have been killed and 14 injured in an explosion in the tourist resort of Grand Baie on the Indian Ocean island of Mauritius. "An explosion occurred in a building housing restaurants, bars and shops in Grand Baie," police spokesman Max Louison said. "At this moment we are not in a position to say what the cause of the explosion is. But we are taking it very seriously." A man and a woman, both in their mid-20s, were killed in the blast. Police said they believed that all of those injured were Mauritian. Forensic experts are trying to find the cause of the explosion. Paul Berenger, Prime Minister of the island of 1.2 million people, was also at the scene. UPDATE: An explosion at a tourist resort on the Indian Ocean island of Mauritius that killed two people and injured 13 on Sunday may have been caused by gas cylinders, a government minister said. The blast in the resort of Grand Baie tore through a two-storey building housing restaurants, bars and shops at about 1:45 a.m. (2145 GMT), causing part of the top floor to collapse.
"We believe that it could be due to the explosion of gas cylinders. We hope it is something like that," Anil Bachoo, minister of public infrastructure and transport, told Reuters while inspecting the scene. "We don't think it's a terrorist attack as we don't have terrorists in Mauritius," he said. He expected an investigation by forensic experts to be finished within 48 hours.
"No terrorists here, nope, nope!"
The country has no history of attacks on tourist sites and markets itself as safe for visitors, but the United States issued a travel advisory in March warning of a possible terrorist threat on the island and in the east African region. Over 700,000 tourists visited the island's white sand beaches last year, which lie some 4,000 km (2,500 miles) east of South Africa, bringing in almost $750 million in revenue.
Terrorist bombings are bad for tourists, which is why the government sez there ain't any.
Mauritius is also a major regional banking center and the world's seventh largest sugar exporter. It plans to turn itself into a "cyber island" information technology hub linking Asian software expertise with Africa.
Didn't one of the french a-Qaeda boys that got picked up have plans to go blow up something on one of these islands?
Posted by: Fred ||
07/26/2004 12:07:08 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
The explosion of Djerba was also caused by gas cylinders.
It was just that somebody drove a truck with them into a synagogue. Of course no terrorists (first) because Tunisia didn't have any...
#2
The truth and nothing but the truth -There are terrorist in Mauritius
Anil Gayan, minister of tourism and leisure, told reporters on Jul 27 that the explosion was probably caused by gas leak and that there are no terrorists in Mauritius. Thats a damn lie.
As we already know in Mauritius there is a serious problem of threat from a certain group of people. They wanted independence and they said they will will have their own laws and their own police force right in Port Louis. In 1999 the Amical Casino was bombed with molotov cocktails. It was a planned and well coordinated attacked with the pillon riders of a hoard of motorcycles throwing the bombs into the Casino. The fire killed relatives and the all the family members of the owner including his pregnant wife.
They have claimed that they will put poison our sugar. This is to destroy the economy of Mauritius they said
Tourism is becoming our very important and vital sector the economy. Does it make you wonder why at the eve of the tourist high season the bombing is in a busy night spot area just like another island in Indonesia which devestated their economy which was tourism dependent?
Its people who live in Mauritius whos lives are at stake. If wrong information is being given out they cannot take the right precautions are we waiting for a Sept 11 to happen here?
Everyone in Mauritius knows that the minister is not speaking accurately that it is a gas explosion. It is a bomb not gaz.
The reason is plain and almost all can see
1. It is too powerful. Residents 1 km away woke up from their sleep from the sound of a blast. How much gas can be found in a kitchen to level the building this way.
2. There is no fire. NO FIRE at all. All of us saw the MBC news of the Belgium blast that was gas and we all can see that everywhere was fire even the cars plants tree were on fire.
3. Why on MBC Sunday night the minister said a report would be given by tuesday or wednesday latest and now it is not conclusive? It is something obvious if it was gas?.
4. Why FBI and CIA is on our island? To help solve a gas explosion.?
Anil Gayan also said that he would provide the report within 48 hrs. Well its more than a week and why the report is late?
Lies have been told before and thers is nothing new to this,
I say it is better to tell the truth. In Madrid the govt lied and they went out. It is fair for everyone. The next blast may not be in Grand Baie how are we to save our lives and our families if the truth is not said?
Everyone in Mauritius said that the Grand Baie explosion is BOMB not GAZ,
Our Correspondent, Barisal
Unknown assailants exploded two bombs and injured at least five people including two leaders of the ruling BNP in stadium area in the city yesterday. The critically injured are Asaduzzaman Khosru, general secretary, city unit of the BNP; Shafiqul Alam Guljar, treasurer, district BNP and general secretary, District Sports Association; and Jahid Hossain, general secretary, Barisal District Football Federation. They have been admitted to Sher-e-Bangla Medical College Hospital. The other two with minor injuries were released after first -aid. Sources said the BNP leaders were gossiping with 10 to 15 people in front of the stadium at about 7.30pm. Four people on two motorcycles approached them and hurled the two bombs at them before fleeing the scene firing four times. People rushed to the spot and took the injured to the hospital. The injured leaders believe the assailants might be of the same group that attacked the city unit general secretary of BNP's youth front Jatiyatabadi Jubo Dal two months ago. No cases were filed till 8:00 last night. Police retrieved bomb splinters from the scene.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/26/2004 12:05:26 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
Four Policemen were severely injured in a bomb attack, second in last 12 days, early yesterday at Shantala area under Jessore Sadar Police Station. Police said unidentified miscreants hurled two powerful hand bombs on a police patrol van. The vehicle was badly damaged in the explosions that rocked the entire area. The injured, Constable Rukunuzzaman and Constable Abu Saeed, were admitted to Jessore General Hospital with condition stated to be critical, said hospital sources. Senior officers of Jessore police visited the scene of the attack and victims in the hospital. None was arrested in this connection till filing this report at 7:00pm. All police stations of Jessore district were put on high alert following the bomb attack. Earlier on July 12 a similar bomb attack on a police patrol van left two policemen injured.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/26/2004 12:03:05 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
At least eight people were hurt on Thursday in two separate blasts at a base of OMON special police near Russia's rebel region of Chechnya, Russian news agencies said. Interfax, quoting local police, said the first explosion, caused by a bomb, occurred outside the OMON base in Makhachkala in Dagestan, neighbouring Chechnya. The agency said the blast occurred as a bus carrying OMON police officers arrived at the base. One of the injured was said to be a woman who was in a serious condition, but the others had only slight wounds. An hour later, a second explosion took place about 50 metres (yards) from the base, Interfax said. No-one was injured in this explosion, according to preliminary information, Interfax said.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/26/2004 11:42:10 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
Three officials from the Interior Ministry of Ingushetia were detained on suspicion of being involved in the rebel attack on June 22, Interfax news agency reported. A source in Ingushetia's law enforcement structures was quoted by the agency as saying that those policemen had suspiciously helped the rebels to attack Ingush cities and villages. A sergeant from a patrol service, a warrant officer and a lieutenant of special police forces were detained. The warrant officer, from a special police unit, reportedly took part in the attack on the rebel side. He is suspected of having contacts with the commanders of illegal armed formations. The investigation found hidden weapons and forged documents in the warrant officer's house, the agency quoted its source as saying.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/26/2004 11:46:28 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
from a special police unit
Everything is special in that part of the world.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/26/2004 0:48 Comments ||
Top||
#2
The warrant officer, from a special police unit, reportedly took part in the attack
Well, he's in for "special" treatment.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/26/2004 8:57 Comments ||
Top||
Police and intelligence agents raided a suspected terrorist hide-out in eastern Pakistan yesterday, arresting at least 12 people after a prolonged gunbattle, officials said. At least four of those arrested in the raid in Gujrat were foreigners, said Saadatullah Khan, the chief of police for Punjab province, where Gujrat is located. Security forces returned fire after they were attacked from inside the home and the standoff lasted about six hours, Khan said. It was not clear what the suspects were accused of doing, or what group they belonged to. "This will come to the surface once our investigations are completed," Khan told The Associated Press. He had no details on where the foreigners were from. Police sources, however, said some of those arrested were allegedly involved in attack on the Karachi corps commander on June 10.
Seems fairly clear that the suspects were shooting it out with the cops. But there don't seem to be any laws against that in Pakland...
No laws against the cops actually hitting whoever they're shooting it out with, but it never seems to happen ...
Two AK-47 rifles, two computers, computer diskettes, and a "large amount" of foreign currency was found at the home, said Raja Munawar, the chief of police in Gujrat. He said the suspects belonged to a "religious terrorist group" without specifying any organization by name. Raja Munawar said five men, three women and five children were detained. "One of the children is an infant," he added.
Was the little brat armed?
An official at the Interior Ministry in the capital Islamabad confirmed the arrests, saying one of the suspects was wounded in the shootout.
The Pakalonian kops have to work on those marksmanship skills...
Dare we say, pray for sepsis?
Officials were interrogating the suspects to determine their links with any terrorist group but none of them appeared to be senior figures, said Abdul Rauf Chaudhry, a spokesman for the ministry. An intelligence officer in Lahore, speaking on condition of anonymity, said an Uzbek woman was among the suspects arrested in the raid. He said another terror suspect, who was already in custody, accompanied intelligence agents, indicating he led the security forces to the house. The militants have been living in the house with their families for the last one and a half months. A police source said three of the suspects rented the house from Ijaz Warraich, an employee of the Muslim Commercial Bank, Mirpur branch.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/26/2004 11:06:30 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
