When they say things happen in clusters, they mean it. Today:
Sammy got nabbed. Biggest and best headline I could imagine, next to Binny getting nabbed. Not only did he get nabbed, he was in a hole, and armed. And he quit. No shootout, no boom belt, no heroic resistance to the last, like Uday and Qusay. Just "I quit! Don't hurt me!" This was followed by pix of him being checked for head lice.
Perv almost got boomed, saved by somebody's cheap watch. The culprits are no doubt a "banned jihadi group."
Steve W,I am sincerly hurt,You gave me no place in your TOO(Table of orginization).What am I chopped liver.(boohoo,whine,seeth,gnash teeth,rip clothes)
Posted by: raptor ||
12/14/2003 9:53:01 AM ||
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raptor - hey, bro, you can have the top dog spot. I'm not cut out for public office - some say I'm too fuckin' crude. I have no idea why, but I've heard them. Toss the little people a crumb now 'n then, k?
A Taliban commander held at the US military base in Guantanamo and released by US authorities in July is now back in Afghanistan in charge of attacks against US forces there, according to a report released Sunday. Sources in Pakistan and Afghanistan told Time magazine that Mullah Shehzada, who was among 16 Afghans freed from the US base in Cuba, masterminded a jailbreak in Kandahar in October in which 41 captured Taliban burrowed under prison walls with help from bribed guards. A deputy to Taliban army chief Mullah Fazal Mazloom before his capture during the late 2001 Afghanistan war, Shehzada seized control of Taliban operations against US forces and their Afghan allies in the southern part of the country once he was back in Afghanistan. Asked why Shehzada had resumed attacks on US forces, Taliban spokesman Hamid Agha said: âOnce a Taliban always a Taliban. Now he wants revenge.â The Pentagon declined to comment on the report, the newsweekly said.
I don't imagine he'll survive the next time he's captured.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 18:26 ||
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Actually, this is THE reason why we're detaining these guys all this time.
Delegates assembling from every corner of Afghanistan on Saturday faced tough debate in hammering out the first post-Taliban constitution, the bedrock of what Afghans hope will be a better life after years of war. The constitutional loya jirga, or grand council, which opens on Sunday, is a key step in the two-year drive to stabilize the country under an empowered central government, and will lead to landmark national elections planned for June. U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Afghanistanâs new charter would be a ``major milestone in its transition to a constitutional, representative government that respects its traditions and protects the welfare of its citizens.ââ The European Union said it hoped the charter would be ``pluralistic and based on universal human rights, including equal rights for men and women.ââ
I think most of us hope it won't be too awful...
But the aspirations of ordinary Afghans, among the worldâs poorest people, are simpler. ``Look at the ruins of this country,ââ said Bismillah, a 43-year-old shopkeeper in Kabul who goes by only one name. ``Letâs get the constitution approved so the government can get to work.ââ Sensible men. Is he running for office?
It could take 10 days to several weeks for the loya jirga, meeting in a huge tent at a Kabul college campus, to finalize the 160-article draft presented by a constitutional commission in October.
If it's got 160 articles, it's too detailed. They put all sorts of grand ideas and rights into these things, most of which are honored in the breech:
"You have the right to a pony of no fewer than 11 and no more than 14 hands. It will be gray, brown, black or white. Its mane will reach no less than halfway nor more than three quarters of the way to the ground."
That means nothing if there aren't any free ponies to hand out.
While all the delegates have arrived without reported incident after last-minute elections in the provinces, the U.S. military has warned that Taliban militants plan to disrupt the gathering.
Oh, surprise, surprise, surprise!
With Taliban attacks increasing in the countryside, U.S. forces have launched their largest military operation since the fall of the Taliban two years ago - in part to protect the loya jirga. The new Afghan National Army has placed machine-gun posts and tanks near the council siteâs perimeter and the cityâs 5,500-strong international peacekeeping force is patrolling the nearby hills to prevent rocket attacks. Letâs hope the Taliban masses all its forces for an attack.
Among the delegates cocooned at the carefully groomed loya jirga site, the strength of the presidency appears the most contentious issue. U.S.-backed President Hamid Karzai favors a strong chief executive while opponents have pushed for a prime minister who would share power. Karzai this week said he would not run in next yearâs elections if a strong prime ministerâs post is created. "Iâll be prime minister instead, unless the post of Grand Vizir opens up!"
They're allergic to prime ministers after Hek...
Afghans have bitter experience of such an arrangement. During part of the 1992-96 civil war, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, today near the top of a U.S. wanted list for siding with the Taliban, was officially prime minister - even as his forces bombarded the capital under President Burhanuddin Rabbani. Hek will be noticable by his absence, and hopefully by his funeral.
Afghans appear torn, wanting a government strong enough to rein in powerful warlords but not so strong as to create the makings of a dictator.
That's an adequate goal...
``We do need a strong presidential system, one person that will be in control of everything,ââ said Abdullah Arsala, 30, U.S.-educated Pashtun businessman from Jalalabad who is a loya jirga delegate. But another delegate, 32-year-old Abdul Rehman, an ethnic Tajik, warned: ``If we give all the power to one man he will just do something for himself.ââ Yep, depends on the quality of the people you elect first. Thank goodness we had George Washington.
The man who could have been king...
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/14/2003 2:04:58 AM ||
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#1
Unfortunately the world seems capable of spawning a Washington only once every millenium or two. Who was the last one before him? Since?
#3
France seems to get around to it every 50 years or so.
Posted by: john ||
12/14/2003 10:56 Comments ||
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#4
Most people, including Americans, really don't know Washington well - more the myth and silliness. The man was unique, IMHO. I highly recommend this extremely readable book for a great profile of the man, as well as a very interesting take on the American Revolution:
The First Salute
by Barbara Tuchman
She just passed away - and I'll miss her work. If you're interested in WW-I, her book The Guns of August is also excellent - and a well-deserved Pulitzer Prize winner.
#5
john: Lessee. France has produced Charlemagne. Nope. Richelieu. Nope. Louis XIV. Nope. Napoleon. Nope. Napoleon III (the Little.) Nope. de Gaulle. Naah. Who? Jeanne d'Arc maybe?
JFM: Core legend says Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus defeated the Aequi badguys, saving a Roman army from extermination, accepted a Triumph, (must've been a TR1 back then) then returned to his plow. That fits, Washington often compared to him. But he was also about 2500 years backalong. Who between? Who since?
"If Washington does [resign and go back to Mt. Vernon] that, then he is the greatest man on Earth" -- George III, 1783
#6
Not to stray to far off the subject but if any Rantburgers have never really studied our revolution and it's battles you'r really missing some great stuff. Accounts of Lexington and Concord, The rescue and fighting retreat of the blokes, Cowpens... just great stuff.
George Washington and our revolution, the hand of God.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 12:38 Comments ||
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JFM: Core legend says Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus defeated the Aequi badguys, saving a Roman army from extermination, accepted a Triumph, (must've been a TR1 back then)
LOL A very nice touch. Who Drove around the walls of Jerico in his Triumph?
Not that it matters... the Lord God is a MoPar man.. it is noted that he drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden in his Fury.
.com OT used to help with an SCCA B Production (old style) GT350.
Posted by: James ||
12/14/2003 13:31 Comments ||
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Ship - OT (cont.) I used to hitchhike to the drags - from age 8-13 - they called me the "Pit Brat" cuz so young and always alone. Handed wrenches under for Garlits once, after that Kalitta wouldn't let me near his rail - thought I was a spy, heh. Saw them all when a kid, but never ran later, myself. I love the smell of nitro in the morning...
De Gaulle had some of the qualities. Complete disinterest in money: he refunded the state for the power used in his private rooms at Elysee, he didn't accept pay over his Army's pay as a retired colonel. Willingness to relinquish power when he felt he was paralized (1946) or unsupported by the French people (1969) despite being legally able to keep it. Disinterest for medals and honors (he refused them). A strong intent in doing what he thought good for France.
However, such qualities were marred by
a) an enormous pride: at 12 he already believed he would save France and his later carreer shows him all too quick to believe nobody else was fit for the job (in some ways he was not completely wrong given the mediocrity of France's leaders)
b) His complete unhumanity when his abstract idea of France's grandeur clashed against the lives of people. It goes from his snobbing of the Spanish republicans in teh Resistance who liberated several French cities (but de Gaulle needed French resistants for restoring both of France's international prestige and self esteem) but the worst was his shameful treatment of the harkis (Algerians who had fought against the FLN thugs during the independence war): he was wary of introducing a Muslim minority in France so hze ordered them to meet horrible deaths at the hands of FLN. But tens of thousands of them still reached France thanks to French officers who braved sanctions to save them. However De Gaulle had the harkis parked into something who looked more like concentration camps than evrything else where people who had fought for France in Algeria, Indochina and Cassino were rewarded with 20 years or more of misery and, quite often, seeing their child die from exposure or illness, all while being robbed by the state and the camp bosses.
#16
john (#3): Oh. You were talking about writing a constitution, right? Yeah. ok. I thought you were talking about producing a Washington. Yeah, 1789 and they're on their 5th one, not counting three or four intervening abortive monarchies. About right. sbt.
#17
Two things that most people don't know about Washington:
A) He had a toweringly passionate nature and a temper that could defrost the Antarctic. The image of him as a square-jawed statue comes primarily from his heroic efforts to keep it in check. He did go medieval on idiots like Charles Lee at Monmouth Court House, and his aides when they proposed setting up a military dictatorship with him at the head after the Continental Congress left the Army in the lurch.
B) Washington was not an especially competent general. He was addicted to complicated tactical plans that the Continental Army wasn't trained to perform, and he had a very poor sense of how to tactically position his troops. (Good examples of this are his first battle at Fort Necessity and at Long Island and Manhattan, where he nearly got cut off by the British Navy) His saving graces were the ability to listen to reason, (he was argued into going after Yorktown rather than New York) and the fact that he was one of the greatest spymasters in espionage history. (Historians only uncovered the last of his spy rings in the 1920's!) Underneath the wooden and plaster-saint image, he was truly a self-made great man, who was well-conscious of his personal shortcomings and adjusted his actions accordingly.
Posted by: Ernest Brown ||
12/14/2003 17:30 Comments ||
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Four US soldiers were slightly injured in Kuwait in âa terrorist attack against two military convoys,â the official KUNA news agency said Sunday night, quoting Kuwait Television. Kuwait served as a launch pad for last Marchâs US-led invasion of Iraq which led to the ouster of Iraqi president Saddam Hussein, whose capture after eight months on the run was announced by US forces earlier Sunday. Thousands of US troops are based in Kuwait, which is also being used as a transit point for American soldiers going home on vacation or returning to their bases in Iraq.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 18:28 ||
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Kuwaitis, jubilant at the capture of arch-foe Saddam Hussein, were Sunday frantically sending each other mobile text messages of mock denials from former Iraqi Information Minister Mohammad said as-Sahhaf. "Sahhaf has denied the capture of Saddam Hussein, saying the man who was arrested is the leader of the Taliban," read one message. "Urgent ... Saddam announces the arrest of members of the (Iraqi) governing council and the coalition troops: Sahhaf," said another.
Oh, yeah? Well, Iraqis are committing suicide in their thousands at the gates of Los Angeles! So there!
Sahhaf, who has been living in the United Arab Emirates since July when he was allowed to leave Baghdad following Saddam's ouster, shot to fame for his wildly inaccurate statements on the war in the run-up to Saddam's overthrow.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 18:10 ||
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He's a national treasure. His statement is a public realtions coup by the coalition. Anybody that agrees with him will now be a laughingstock.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 20:42 Comments ||
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Police in Turkey say they have arrested a "key suspect" in last monthâs suicide bomb attacks in Istanbul. They believe the Turkish man - identified only by his initials F Y - helped prepare the explosives and trucks used in the attacks. Two synagogues, the British consulate, and a British bank were hit. The authorities say the man was arrested on Wednesday in south-eastern Turkey while trying to flee to Iran with a forged passport. Early on Sunday, the suspect was taken by the police to an industrial district of Istanbul and questioned at a workshop where he and others allegedly made the explosives. Eyewitnesses said he appeared to be about 30 years old, and had a short beard and dark hair. He wore a brown jacket and grey trousers.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
12/14/2003 6:12:41 AM ||
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Short beard, dark hair, brown jacket, grey trousers, forged passport, fleeing to Iran...must be a clue here somewhere, must think, put two and two together, what could it mean... grey trousers! Thats it! Watson!
Posted by: B ||
12/14/2003 12:38 Comments ||
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#3
"Ahmed, my number two truncheon."
"Effendi, if I may suggest, please consider the number three, instead? He looks like my brother-in-law."
"Ah, good choice, Ahmed. The number three it is, then!"
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/14/2003 12:53 Comments ||
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#4
taken by the police to an industrial district of Istanbul and questioned at a workshop
"are these your pliars?"
"OWWWWWWWWWWWWW"....yes"
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/14/2003 13:01 Comments ||
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The European summit to forge a constitution for a united, post-Cold War Europe collapsed Saturday after leaders failed to agree on sharing power within an expanded European Union. The deal-breaker was a proposal to abandon a voting system accepted in 2000 that gave Spain and incoming EU member Poland almost as much voting power as Germany, which has a population equal to those two countries combined. European leaders sought to minimize the damage,
How do you minimize the damage of a collapse?
saying talks would resume next year, but the debacle leaves the EU in turmoil as it prepares for one of the greatest challenges in it 46-year history - accepting new members from the former Communist east. The failure scuttles, for the time being, the EUâs plan for a new president, foreign minister and a greater profile on the global stage to rival that of the United States. Rival? Only in French wet dreams.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair appealed for all to respect the ``essential unity of Europe.ââ Blair insisted the summit failure would not delay the expansion in which Poland and nine smaller nations will join the bloc on May 1, expanding it from 15 to 25 members. Warning that an expanded EU could force Europe to ``march to the slowest step,ââ Chirac suggested a ``pioneer groupââ of nations could move forward alone with closer cooperation on areas such as the economy, justice and defense. ``It will be the motor. It will set the example, allow Europe to go faster, better,ââ Chirac told a news conference. "We might even get Europe into second gear!"
Others were dubious about such a ``two-speed Europe.ââ "Second gear? We donât have a second gear! This is a Fiat, you idiot!"
``I hope that no country will take measures to try to divide Europe,ââ Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar said. Too late!
The leaders managed some successes on the first day of summit Friday - boosting the EUâs military planning capability independent of NATO and setting up a $75 billion investment plan for public works projects to lift economic recovery. Yep, them planners will draw up great plans, wonât they?
Without agreement, the voting system adopted three years ago at a summit in the French Riviera resort of Nice will take effect when Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus and Malta join the EU in May. However, leaders said a constitution will eventually be needed to manage the EUâs affairs efficiently when it has so many members. They havenât even tried it yet and theyâre going to amend it. How, um, French.
The 464-article draft charter boils down 80,000 pages of accumulated treaties and agreements into one simplified rule book for the bloc, giving it new powers designed to endow it with political weight to match Europeâs economic clout. Yas, a 464 article constitution is considered "simplified" in Europe.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/14/2003 2:12:35 AM ||
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"boils down 80,000 pages"? What the heck did they start with?
#2
The full and complete declaration of Iraqi WMD. In duplicate.
Posted by: Brian ||
12/14/2003 3:10 Comments ||
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#3
How do you minimize the damage of a collapse?
"We have institutions that work, we have pressed ahead with enlargement which will take place on May 1," Chirac told a news conference. "There is no drama or crisis with a capital 'C'."
So you see, it was a collapse, but not a Collapse.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/14/2003 7:33 Comments ||
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#4
Silly me. That explains it.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/14/2003 8:12 Comments ||
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#5
I have a bet on the membership of the vaguard group to operate in 2nd gear.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 12:44 Comments ||
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#6
80,000 pages! Holy Schitkis! That's bigger than a Grainger catalogue. Just think of setting up one of those with cross references, keyword search, etc etc. on a database.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/14/2003 12:54 Comments ||
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#7
SH - remember, it's a French transmission. That may be 2nd REVERSE gear...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/14/2003 12:54 Comments ||
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#8
Yeah, nobody saw THIS coming. HAHAHAH!!
Now pull every last troop and their dependents out of germany and let them rot.
#10
Actually, a 2 speed Europe isn't a bad idea: The original core of the EC was six countries, wasn't it, which grew out of the Benelux treaty? For once, Chiraq is talking about leading by actually getting out in front and setting an example. Besides, political union with Germany would give the future President of the union more clout to get bennies for the aging French populace. If he can't get the whole loaf now, he'll settle for two or three slices, since that'll be more than the one slice he has now. Not great progress, but "progress" nevertheless.
Canada, which strongly opposed the war on Iraq, said on Sunday the trial of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein should be "just" and "credible", adding it had to be done under international auspices.
He means with no possibility of a death penalty.
"I am convinced it will be a trial, a court of international competence," Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin said, giving the past examples of international tribunals in Cambodia and the former Yugoslavia.
That kinda implies Sammy committed his crimes under international auspices, too, doesn't it? Should we put Kofi on trial, too?
"What is important, is that he be tried before a tribunal that is just, credible and that has international recognition," Martin said.
What's the matter with a court in Iraq, with an Iraqi judge and an Iraqi jury?
The Prime Minister said one of the options was an Iraqi War Tribunal. "There are a number of ways in which this can be put together," the Canadian leader said.
How about a drumhead in downtown Baghdad? You could put it on the teevee...
Congratulating U.S. forces and the Iraqi transition government, Martin said the arrest of Hussein would boost the chances of reconciliation between the various factions inside the country and speed up the reconstruction of Iraq. "This is a great victory for the coalition forces but the biggest winners in all of this will be the people of Iraq," he told a new conference.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 14:50 ||
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#1
How about a credible trial of Canadian, French and German politicians for complicity in crimes against humankind?
#3
The obvious response is, who GIVES a damn what canada wants? I seriously doubt paul was on the list of world leaders Dubya was calling this morning. Dubya should drop a "you're missing a good opportunity to keep your mouth shut" on him.
#4
Didn't the US just give the finger to O Canada concerning the rebuilding contracts? Doesn't he know he isn't and member of the coalition in Iraq.....
#5
No, #4 on Rantburg, it's written "... give the finger back to O Canada ..."
Sorry, Fred, I didn't mean to jump the gun and divide attention to Canada in this thread. It was just, aah, you know, a slow news day and ... um .... um.
#6
Here's the deal, Paul (and Kofi and Jacques): if you aren't at the table, the most you get is crumbs. Even a dog knows that. Bush again in 2004, you morons. Chew on that.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/14/2003 16:15 Comments ||
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#7
Why don't the Belgians (the true friends of justice and beurocracy) demand extradition of Saddam to Brussels to stand trial for war crimes ?????????????
They werent so quiet when they thought they could lay their greasy little paws on ariel Sharon.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
12/14/2003 16:35 Comments ||
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#8
Dodo: Don't incite them, dammit. Probably enough already working on it. More Eurocrap is way down at bottom of things needed. W needs to put armor plate around Bremer's statement the Coalition will interrogate Sammie, then turn him over to the Iraqis, who will by then surely have figured out what to do with him.
#9
No doubt it's a national day of mourning in belgium and france about saddam. Don't worry, 1st thing tomorrow they'll be demanding extradition and leniency. They're probably shitting themselves worrying about what saddam will say about their helping with WMD.
#11
Paul Martin and the EU are parroting the same line we are going to hear from the Dimocrats. We need to "internationalize" the Trial to bring credibility. The sort of credibility the UN and the rest of the antiwar crowd have demonstrated over the last 14 years? They failed to take real action against Saddam when he was in power and now they wish to take real action when he is behind bars. Whoto bunch of hypos!
GW: Hand him over to the Iraqis. I'm sure they can ensure justice is done. It may not be pretty, but efective.
Posted by: john ||
12/14/2003 19:06 Comments ||
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#12
If they want a credible trial, make sure it doesn't go into a European venue or the ICC.
#13
Why doesn't Paul Martin fly to Baghdad and try to convince the Iraqis that they should pass on trying Sadaam so that his trial can be seen as legitimate by the international community.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 20:46 Comments ||
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#14
If the burka dont fit - you must aquit!
Cochrane! - For the Defense!
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
12/14/2003 22:26 Comments ||
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New Canada PM moves quickly to end scandals
New Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin, trying to clean up government after a series of scandals, Saturday unveiled a tough new ethics code banning ministers from taking rides on private jets and restricting the gifts they may ... blah blah blah snip
Text is regular this-new-administration-is-gonna-clean-up schtick weâve heard here and worldwide before and doesnât bear repeating. Thatâs not what gives me the creeps. Itâs the picture. If Martin and Chirac were side-by-side walking down the sidewalk chattering in some indecipherable language, could you to tell them apart? Or am I just being thrown by the pose?
Posted by: Glenn (not Reynolds) ||
12/14/2003 3:55:44 AM ||
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Good grief - you're right!
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
12/14/2003 3:59 Comments ||
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#2
oops Meant to post in Great White North. Can you move it Fred?
Damn! Left it in the editor while I had lunch, so B beat me to it. Consider this a followup...
A bomb exploded minutes after a motorcade carrying the Pakistani president passed a road near the capital on Sunday, but no one was hurt. The blast damaged a bridge in Rawalpindi, about 10 miles from the capital, Islamabad, but President Gen. Pervez Musharraf was not harmed, state television PTV reported. Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed told The Associated Press that the president was returning to his home at Army House in Rawalpindi from the city's airport after a visit to Karachi. Ahmed said it was a bomb explosion and an investigation was under way. Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan, a military spokesman, confirmed that the explosion happened soon after the president's vehicle passed. "His cavalcade had passed safely," he told AP. He declined to elaborate on who might have carried out such an attack on the president.
Oh, who could it be? Who could it possibly be?
GEO TV, a private network, reported the blast happened 10 minutes after Musharraf passed the spot in Rawalpindi.
"Mahmoud! Get rid of that cheap watch!"
"My imam gimme this watch, effendi!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 13:14 ||
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#1
Lunch? Today you take time for lunch? The way things are going think what you might have missed.
Posted by: Matt ||
12/14/2003 15:25 Comments ||
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#2
"... minutes after a motorcade ... passed "
Odd smell. Is Perv disingenuous enough (Stupid. Of course he is.) and nervy enough (?) to have something staged as an excuse to erase some people whose existence has become inconvenient?
#3
It wouldn't be the first time the Jihadis have apparently made an incompetent attempt on Musharraf's life, as do you did it and why, anything is possible in Pakland
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
12/14/2003 17:54 Comments ||
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hat tip to lgf
ISLAMABAD (AFP) - A powerful explosion damaged a bridge which Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf had crossed just minutes earlier, police and officials said.
They added that no one was hurt in the blast in the garrison city of Rawalpindi, near the capital Islamabad, late on Sunday.
Posted by: B ||
12/14/2003 12:53:41 PM ||
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#1
Perv's got reason enuf for a smackdown...now you'll see how much he values his life.....
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/14/2003 13:02 Comments ||
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#2
He cannot let this one go, or it will foster many more until they score. We will see, Frank, if he really has the power to sustain his regime.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/14/2003 13:06 Comments ||
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#3
Hey Perv....we've tried to warn you. Remember the old saying about feeding the 'gators hoping to be the last thing eaten? Ultimately it's your choice Perv. And it's really not a hard choice when you think about it. You can go either with the forces of the 12th century or with the forces of the 21st century. Make your choice. But make it NOW.
Posted by: Mark ||
12/14/2003 15:34 Comments ||
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#4
Interesting that they hit a bridge that was on his route. ISS may be sending a message to him.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 16:04 Comments ||
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#5
They only have to get lucky once, then we see if we get stuck with a nuclear armed gang of jihadis.
#6
Super Hose has got it right. The boom wasn't an attempted hit. It was a message: lighten up on our friends (the extremists) or suffer a nasty fate. Whatcha going do Perv? Continue to straddle the line between the forces of good and evil? It's a bitch, but you're going to have to make a choice.
Posted by: Mark ||
12/14/2003 18:17 Comments ||
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#7
Now I know he's on our side. If he wasn't before, he is now.
Posted by: Islam Sucks ||
12/14/2003 21:58 Comments ||
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Foreign Minister Yashwant Sinha on Saturday said that his country has been and would continue to help Iran in its controversial bid to generate nuclear energy. "We have long record on peaceful uses of nuclear energy," Sinha told reporters. "We have nuclear energy plants in our country. There are other civilian uses of nuclear energy. Most certainly between Iran and India, there would be collaboration."
"Their checks clear."
The United States and Israel accuse Iran of using a nuclear energy programme as a cover for a secret bid to produce nuclear arms, a charge the Islamic republic fiercely denies. Last month, the International Atomic Energy Agency condemned Iran for 18 years of covert nuclear activities although a report said there was no clear evidence the country has been developing nuclear arms. Russia is currently building a nuclear plant at the southern city of Bushehr, and has been under massive US pressure to scrap its assistance. Sinha said his talks here had covered a range of economic issues, including plans to supply Iranian gas to India via a proposed 3.5 billion-dollar pipeline that crosses Pakistan.
That'll give the Bugtis something to do on a Saturday night...
"I am very happy since it was possible for us to take important decisions," he said of the talks. "We talked about the gas pipe line, and I hope the study on the feasibility of the pipeline will be over soon. We are looking at various options. Only after the studies are over we can make concrete decisions." During the week, Pakistanâs high commissioner to India, Aziz Ahmed Khan, promised to ensure the safety of the proposed pipeline. He said Islamabad was willing to offer its guarantees over safety to help revive a project long-delayed by security fears. Negotiations on the 1,600-kilometer (1,000-mile) pipeline began in 1994 but no headway was made due to tensions between Pakistan and India and the projectâs massive cost. India has been reluctant to sign up for the project, as it fears Pakistan could cut off fuel supplies to New Delhi if hostilities broke out.
Or even if they don't...
For Iran, which holds the worldâs largest gas reserves after Russia, the Indian market is as important as the European market, which it hopes to serve one day through a pipeline across Turkey. India is a large importer of energy products, buying abroad nearly 70 percent of its annual requirements. Sinha is in Iran to attend the 13th session of the India-Iran commission on bilateral trade and economic issues and hold talks with Iranian President Mohammad Khatami, Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi and other officials. Khatami visited India this year as the chief guest of the January 26 Republic Day celebrations. Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited Iran in 2001.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/14/2003 12:21:25 AM ||
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India has been reluctant to sign up for the project, as it fears Pakistan could cut off fuel supplies to New Delhi if hostilities broke out.
Oh, giggle. As if that would be the only reason the pipeline would be shut down. There would be so many attacks on it from start to finish that even Rantburg couldn't catalog them all.
And consider the bribe money that would flow to get the thing built and keep it going. That would fund every goof with a turban and AK in the country, and that's a lot of people.
Perhaps India could invest in some LP ships?
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/14/2003 1:49 Comments ||
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"We have long record on peaceful uses of nuclear energy," Sinha told reporters. "We have nuclear energy plants in our country. There are other civilian uses of nuclear energy. Most certainly between Iran and India, there would be collaboration."
One thing he didn't mention - India has the Bomb, too.
#3
I am baffled at why India would assist the Islamic Republic of Iran in developing the bomb.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 12:52 Comments ||
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Where does India get her oil supply? India is not going to help the Mad Mullahs⢠of Iran unless there is a serious something in it for them.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/14/2003 13:00 Comments ||
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The only possibility I can come up with is that it's easier to keep track of what's going on if you're on the inside, instead of the outside. I'd bet turban money that some of those Indian "workers" know a lot more about a lot more things than their resume indicates.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/14/2003 13:44 Comments ||
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India doesn't regard the Shias as a threat. If not for the ayatollocracy, we probably wouldn't either.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/14/2003 14:27 Comments ||
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Some months before the exposure of the British intelligence effort to bug the Pakistan high commission in London, the British high commission in Pakistan found evidence that the office of its high commissioner in Islamabad had been bugged. According to a high-grade Western diplomatic source, speaking on condition of anonymity, about six months ago the British high commissioner in Islamabad found a loose device hanging from the side of his desk. Not quite sure what it was, he sent for his security staff who declared it to be a âbugâ. The finger of suspicion naturally pointed to the host government and after satisfying itself that this indeed was an attempt to bug the high commissionerâs personal office, the British high commission quietly lodged a formal protest with the Pakistani Ministry of Foreign Affairs. To this day, the source said, the Pakistan government had not come up with any response to the British protest, neither having denied the allegation nor admitted it.
That's funny. Usually they deny everything, regardless of the evidence. Somebody must have lost it...
The British government, says the source, decided not to go public with the discovery as it did not wish to jeopardise its otherwise good relations with Pakistan. The unearthing of a similar operation - though a botched one - by British intelligence at the Pakistan high commission in London would not have become public had there not been a report, a general one about an un-named embassy, in a London newspaper which was further investigated by Daily Times in Pakistan and converted into a bombshell scoop that the embassy, referred to in the report, was none other than the Pakistan high commission in London. The Pakistan government has made no response to the British protest and the British government has done likewise. âIn my book, the two sides are even and should move on without chasing shadows,â the source told Daily Times, adding, âthe British attempt to bug the Pakistan high commission was shoddy and it was blown sky high first by a British and then a Pakistani newspaper. The Pakistani attempt was inept. Perhaps they should use better glue next time so that the bug does not go dangling.â
Not like the Brits to be that clumsy. Is the real bug still in the table leg?
The news that Pakistani spooks tried to bug the British High Commissionerâs office in Islamabad has now been divulged, said one pundit, so that Pakistan cannot sit on a high horse alone and the mutual bugging incidents are conveniently buried in the deep archives of both Foreign Offices.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
12/14/2003 12:19:45 AM ||
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This cross buggery has to stop! Now!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/14/2003 13:03 Comments ||
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How high is a High Commission, what do they get High on, and where do I get some of the stuff.
Event: Saddam dead or in jug
Group: U.S. Army
Narrative: Saddam will be killed or captured
Window: -2 Months (10/20/03)
Probability 75% entered by Fred on 8/21/03
Probability 80% entered by Becky on 8/21/03
Probability 65% entered by tu3031 on 8/21/03
Probability 70% entered by Steve White on 8/21/03
Probability 75% entered by True German Ally on 8/21/03
Probability 80% entered by Chuck Simmins on 8/22/03
Probability 50% entered by Super Hose on 9/17/03
Probability 70% entered by R. McLeod on 10/1/03
Probability 65% entered by JAB on 10/8/03
Overall opinion is Probable (70%)
Current opinion is Probable (68%)
But we did call it, didn't we? Heh heh heh...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 22:34 ||
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Hat tip: Andrew Sullivan. Edited for brevity.
The wild gray beard was gone, and he sat on a metal Army cot, just awake from a nap, in socks and black slippers. He was not handcuffed. He did not recognize all his visitors, but they recognized him. That was the purpose of the visit: to help confirm that this was, in fact, Saddam Hussein. What came next was, according to people in the room, an extraordinary 30 minutes, in which four members of the Governing Council, among the new leaders of Iraq, grilled the nationâs deposed and now captured leader about his crimes. Mr. Hussein, they said, was defiant and unrepentant â but very much defeated.
"The world is crazy," said Mowaffak al-Rubaie, one of the council members in the room today after Mr. Hussein was captured in his hometown of Tikrit. "I was in his torture chamber in 1979 and now he was sitting there, powerless in front of me without anybody stopping me from doing anything to him. Just imagine. We were arguing, and he was using very foul language."
Ahmad Chalabi, the head of the Iraqi National Congress, said: "He was quite lucid. He had command of his faculties. He would not apologize to the Iraqi people. He did not deny any of the crimes he was confronted with having done. He tried to justify them."
Asked about the mass graves of tens of thousands of Iraqis uncovered since Mr. Hussein was toppled from power in the American-led offensive this spring, Mr. Rubaie said that Mr. Hussein answered: "Ask their relatives. They were thieves and they ran away from the battlefields with Iran and from the battlefields of Kuwait."
Asked why he invaded Kuwait in 1990, provoking the first American-led assault on Iraq the next year, he said that Kuwait was rightfully a part of Iraq.
"He was not remorseful at all," Dr. Chalabi said. "It was clear he was a complete narcissist who was incapable of showing remorse or sympathy to other human beings." Dr. Chalabi said that Mr. Hussein also suggested that he had been behind the recent wave of attacks against American soldiers in Iraq since his defeat. "He said, `I gave a speech and I said the Americans can come to Iraq but they canât occupy it and rule it,â " Dr. Chalabi said. "He said, `I said I would fight them with pistols and I have.â He didnât say it directly but he was trying to take credit for it."
Throughout the meeting, Mr. Hussein was calm but often used foul language. Mr. Pachachi said he looked "tired and haggard." Mr. Bremer and General Sanchez, they said, did not speak, though Dr. Chalabi said that Mr. Hussein was "deferential and respectful to the Americans. You can conclude from that some aspect that he was reconciled to his situation," he said.
"The most important fact: Had the roles been reversed, he would have torn us apart and cut us into small pieces after torture," Dr. Chalabi said. "This contrast was paramount in my mind â how we treated him and how he would have treated us."
Mr. Rubaie said: "One thing which is very important is that this man had with him underground when they arrested him two AK-47âs and did not shoot one bullet. I told him, `You keep on saying that you are a brave man and a proud Arab.â I said, `When they arrested you why didnât you shoot one bullet? You are a coward.â And he started to use very colorful language. Basically, he used all his French."
Mr. Rubaie added: "I was so angry because this guy has caused so much damage. He has ruined the whole country. He has ruined 25 million people. And I have to confess that the last word was for me: I was the last to leave the room and I said, `May God curse you. Tell me, when are you going to be accountable to God and the day of judgment? What are you going to tell Him about Halabja and the mass graves, the Iran-Iraq war, thousands and thousands executed? What are you going to tell God?â He was exercising his French language."
Posted by: Dar ||
12/14/2003 8:49:38 PM ||
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I'm sure he is planning a great show at his trial. He will be defiant on TV for all to see. In the end he will remain a hero of the Palestinians.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 21:01 Comments ||
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I like Mr. Rubaie: Direct, to the point, and a hater of Weasels...
#4
I think the Iraqis should have a LONG trial and allow everyone that has been touched by his evil to speak. Only that way will others (Syria, Egypt, Iran, etc.) will see what kind of evil they put upon their own people. That is why EVERY Arab leader regards this as a BAD thing. They see themselves in Saddam and they DON'T like what they see.
#5
It is so fitting that members of the Governing Council confronted Saddam so soon after his capture, to reproach him on behalf of all Iraqis who suffered under him.
#6
You know, Rush Limbaugh advised defendants in criminal trials to at least feign remorse and sorrow at what they'd done to their victims, because the ones who don't always get the chair or at least life.
Saddam could do worse than listen to El Rushbo in his cell...but I still think he's gonna get Jeffrey Dahmered long before he gets to a jury verdict.
#7
"It was clear he was a complete narcissist who was incapable of showing remorse or sympathy to other human beings."
well, DUH! I find this whole exchange a bit odd. It's almost as if the men confronting him are, for the first time, coming to the realization that this is all there is, and ever was, to Sadaam.
"When they arrested you why didnât you shoot one bullet? You are a coward."
It's almost as if the speaker is surprised and disappointed. Again - as if he would have expected more from Sadaam and was surprised that Sadaam did not rise to those expectations.
That they confronted him as someone who they once thought of as a great man, but had disappointed them, seems soooo odd in light of all of the horrific evil that this man has unleashed.
Saddam Hussein was captured on Sunday without a fight. But since then, according to a U.S. intelligence official in Iraq, the fallen dictator has been defiant. âHeâs not been very cooperative,â said the official, who read the transcript of the initial interrogation report taken during the first questioning session. After his capture, Saddam was taken to a holding cell at the Baghdad Airport. He didnât answer any of the initial questions directly, the official said, and at times seemed less than fully coherent. The transcript was full of âSaddam rhetoric type stuff,â said the official who paraphrased Saddamâs answers to some of the questions. When asked âHow are you?â said the official, Saddam responded, âI am sad because my people are in bondage.â When offered a glass of water by his interrogators, Saddam replied, âIf I drink water I will have to go to the bathroom and how can I use the bathroom when my people are in bondage?" Perhaps "My People" is his pet name for a certain appendage. Such nuances can get lost in translation.
The interrogators also asked Saddam if he knew about the location of Captain Scott Speicher, a U.S. pilot who went missing during the first Gulf War. âNo,â replied the former Iraqi president, âwe have never kept any prisoners. I have never known what happened.â Saddam was also asked whether Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. âNo, of course not,â he replied, according to the official, âthe U.S. dreamed them up itself to have a reason to go to war with us.â The interrogator continued along this line, said the official, asking: âif you had no weapons of mass destruction then why not let the U.N. inspectors into your facilities?â Saddamâs reply: âWe didnât want them to go into the presidential areas and intrude on our privacy.â
The official is doubtful that the U.S. will get a significant amount of intelligence from Saddamâs interrogations. âI would be surprised if he gave any info,â he said. Other high-ranking regime members, he said, have by and large remained mum. âTariq Aziz [former deputy prime minister] hasnât really spoken,â he said, âand Abid Mahmoud [Saddamâs former personal secretary] hasnât really given any information.â The official said it may soon be clear how much command and control over the insurgency Saddam actually had while he was in hiding. âWe can now determine,â he said, âif he is the mastermind of everything or not.â The official elaborated: âHave we actually cut the head of the snake or is he just an idiot hiding in a hole?â "Or both?"
Posted by: Dar ||
12/14/2003 8:41:23 PM ||
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My People" is his pet name ... lol!
Posted by: B ||
12/14/2003 21:25 Comments ||
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Well, at least now we all know why Saddam wouldn't cooperate with the weapons inspectors, even to save his regime and his own skin. A man has his pride.
#3
When covering this story tonight, MSNBC's Keith Olberman said, "This is the type of thinking you do when you live in a hole."
Usually, I think Keith's an ass, but this was so true and too funny!
Poor Saddam's completely flipped (as if he were sane before).
Residents of this Fallujah simply could not bring themselves to believe Sunday that Saddam Hussein had finally been captured. They insisted the announcement was meant to end their resistance to the US-led coalition and vowed the attacks on occupation forces will continue. âI heard that heâs been arrested but these are lies and I donât believe it. The Americans want to smash our morale,â said Ahmad Abed, who sells vegetables from a stall on the main street of this town 60 kilometres west of the capital Baghdad. âI hope itâs not true and that the jihad (holy war) will continue because we are struggling in the service of God.â
Yeah, yeah. We're not at the airport, either. We're committing suicide at the gates of Baghdad...
Saddam, a secular Sunni overthrown by invading US and British forces last April, âis a Muslim and a fighter,â Abed said.
Now he's a putz.
âIf there is only one man left in Fallujah he will resist,â swore Abedâs neighbour, Mohammad Abdu, a barber.
When did everybody leave?
âA great man like Saddam who governed the country with an iron hand canât be captured like a simple green grocer,â he said.
Looked more like a bum than a self-respecting green grocer...
âIf he truly was captured that would be the end of our hopes,â Saadi said, praising Saddamâs 23-year-rule for restoring Iraqâs âglory and her honour.â
How's it feel to be hopeless, Bub? As for your "glory and honor," how many other Arab countries have occupying armies at the moment? Did one hell of a job, didn't he?
Hajj Hamadeh also worried about the impact of Saddamâs capture. âI heard the news. I hope itâs false. If not, that will be a blow to our morale,â Hamadeh said before an angry young man interrupted.
If they had fewer angry young men prone to interrupting their elders maybe they'd have that honor and glory they keep yapping about. But it's easier to holler and wave guns than it is to actually accomplish things of substance. Sammy built a regime with multi-million dollar palaces where he couldn't keep the power on 24 hours a day. In Fallujah "shoddy" seems to equate to greatness. Go figure.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 19:16 ||
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We are such insideous liars that we decided to wait seven months to parade this facsilmile of Sadaam around. Oh, and we will soon plant some WMD in Iraq or Syria. We knew that if we found some right away, it would look like a plant.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 20:55 Comments ||
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But it's more than that, Tresho. It's like almost the entire Muslim world has taken a drink of Jim Jones' Kool-Aid. But intead of strychnine, it is filled with a stupid pill.
You and the Times are correct as there seems to be a total inabiltiy to exercise critical thinking and rational thought. Quotes from Muslims throughout the Arab world about what a great Muslim he was, and what a great warroir he was and what a great Muslim leader he was.
Was he a great Muslim leader when he killed a million odd Iranians and 1/2 as many Iraqi's in a senseless 8 year war? Was he a great Muslim leader when he butchered a million of his own people? Was he a great leader to kill 100K shiites near Basra in 1991? Was he a great Muslim leader to gas 1000s of Kurdish women and chilren?
Saddam Hussein should have put up a fight or committed suicide, stunned Iraqis said Sunday after watching images of their fallen leader, haggard and humiliated, in American custody. As news of his capture spread across the country, celebratory shooting erupted in Baghdad's streets, soldiers cheered and victims of his tyranny thanked the United States. Many said it marked a new beginning for Iraq. But for some, his capture was a blow to hopes for Saddam's triumphant return, and his peaceful surrender was seen as a stain on Arab honor.
Ummm... By this point, and by that measure, Arab honor looks like my hankie in the middle of a particularly bad cold...
"He swore before the war that Iraqis would fight America, and then he didn't fire a single shot," said Kassem Shelshul, a 28-year-old chauffeur living in Baghdad. "We expected him to commit suicide or resist," he said after watching video of the captured dictator.
Well, you expected him to lead you to glorious victory, too, didn't you? Dumbass. I don't know what kind of mental condition it is that makes it impossible for these guys to believe a word Bush says, but they're willing to swallow 11 whoppers at a time from Saddam without even a drink of water. I guess that's how they ended up with Baghdad Bob as "Information" Minister...
It was a publicly humiliating end to a leader who for 30 years presented himself to his people only in the most monumental terms. Video released by the U.S. military showed the bearded, wild-haired leader in custody, submitting to a doctor probing his mouth with rubber-gloved hands. Though U.S. officials said Saddam had a pistol with him when he was caught, he didn't use it. Iraqis were shocked that the man they feared for three decades was found hiding in a hole and gave up without a fight. "For the last 35 years Saddam Hussein presented himself as a lion against the Americans and the West and now today they found him like a mouse," said Laad Hamadi, an Iraqi civil engineer. "He didn't fight for his country, he didn't even fight for himself."
Too important to The Movement�
In the Kurdish city of Kirkuk in the north, eight people were killed and 80 wounded from gunfire during celebrations of Saddam's capture.
Wotta party! A wonderful time was had by all, except for the dead people...
But for Saddam's supporters, the day was one of loss. Safa al-Douri, a 36-year-old grocery store owner in Adwar, the town where Saddam was captured late Saturday, said it was too painful to watch the video.
"I just can't stand it!"
"I could not stand looking at him. When I heard the news of his arrest it was as though somebody told me my father had died," he said. "But when I saw his face, it was even worse."
Looked like that $750,000 in cash he had with him shoulda been all dimes, didn't it?
In Baghdad, members of the Iraqi Communist Party, which was banned and persecuted under Saddam's rule, were simply jubilant, passing around bags of candy and raising red flags outside party headquarters. Shiite clerics offered sweets to worshippers who attended afternoon prayers; residents of the capital burned old currency emblazoned with Saddam's photograph, radio stations played festive music and bus passengers cheered: "They got Saddam, they got Saddam."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 17:47 ||
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"In Baghdad, members of the Iraqi Communist Party...raising red flags outside party headquarters"
well, well, well... big media just never disappoints, do they. Earlier, I was shocked, shocked, that the usual media suspects were willing to broadcast happy Iraqi's dancing in the street. Of course, the only people they showed dancing were waving red flags.
Watching the media spin good news into bad is becoming a very fun past time indeed.
It seems, however, that someone has told the gloomy reporters to back off and pretend to be gracious for a day or two. By this afternoon that they are all parroting the talking point...it's a glorious day for Iraq and for President Bush". Must have decided that if they didn't pretend to be happy today, then who would listen to their carping tomorrow.
Posted by: B ||
12/14/2003 18:13 Comments ||
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Those were the flags from the PKK or Communist Party of Kurdistan. Yup they are commies. What was really interesting was the Hamas Leader was "Digusted" that Saddam did not put up a fight. I HOPE that soon EVERY arab will see the duplicity of their leaders. They tell them to become martyrs but they themselves will not.
#3
This is a story that leads the journalists. They would much rather lead the story from the bar at the Palestine. This has forced them to go out and see what is going on. I'm sure their usually gloomy selves will be back to the bad news tomorrow.
Posted by: john ||
12/14/2003 18:51 Comments ||
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#4
They're commies are celebrating while our commies are quietly mourning. So much for worker solidarity.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 21:08 Comments ||
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Iraq's former Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz, in U.S. custody for seven months, helped to confirm the identity of Saddam Hussein after his capture, an official with the U.S.-led administration said Sunday.
Well then, how do you know it's really Sammy? Call in Sahhaf for a second opinion!
"He was identified with the help of Tareq Aziz," the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told Reuters. He did not elaborate.
"I can say no more!"
The fugitive dictator was dusty, bearded and apparently exhausted when he was found in a narrow hiding hole during a raid on a farm near his home town Tikrit late Saturday. Aziz, who surrendered to U.S. forces after the Iraqi president was toppled in April, has been held at the Baghdad airport. Aziz, once a close aide of Saddam, also helped U.S. forces confirm the identity of the ousted leader's two sons, Uday and Qusay, after they were killed by American soldiers in July.
"Yup. That's who they used to be."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 15:06 ||
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Sahhaf? They haven't got him. He went into hiding when Baghdad fell, then surfaced some weeks later and tried unsuccessfully to surrender. Visualize officer in desert camo, with clipboard, scanning, "No. You're not on the list. We don't want you. Go away."
from Command Post
CNN is reporting live shots of smoke and a loud explosion in Baghdad, near the Palestine Hotel (where the press corps stays). Photo at link
Posted by: B ||
12/14/2003 12:46:04 PM ||
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car bomb - no injuries or damage
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/14/2003 13:04 Comments ||
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Apparently a delivery truck with gasoline cannisters. Knowing how Iraqis are handling flammable fluids at the moment, this is no surprise.
Posted by: john ||
12/14/2003 13:07 Comments ||
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Latest report is that a bullet hit the fuel truck - maybe one of those celebratory AK-47 rounds?
Car Bomb at Iraqi Police Station Kills at Least 17
A car bomb explosion at a police station west of Baghdad on Sunday killed at least 17 people and injured 33 others, a U.S. military officer said. A homicide bomber was apparently responsible for the attack, U.S. army Lt. Col. Jeff Swisher said. "About 8:30 (a.m.), a car bomb was detonated at Khaldiyah police station. We have some indication that it's a homicide bomber. But it's too early to give a final judgment," Swisher told reporters at the scene. The car bombing killed police officers, city workers and civilian bystanders. An emergency room administrator at a hospital in the nearby city of Ramadi put the toll even higher, at 21 people killed and more than 20 injured. No American soldiers were in the area when the bomb exploded and none were hurt in the blast. U.S. troops arriving on the scene blocked off the area and two helicopters hovered overhead. U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police later surveyed the site of the blast, which left a huge crater in the road and collapsed a large section of the building's front wall. Several destroyed cars were scattered in the street nearby.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 12:43 ||
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#1
Owww, my stomach's on fire!
Oh wait, it was the picante sauce on my eggs. Carry on.
There really is a Mahmoud's blog: Mahmood's Den, blogging from Bahrain. Now I feel guilty for all those generic Mahmoud's showing up in Rantburg... Well, actually I don't. Mahmood seems a pretty nice fellow. Our Mahmoud is more... ummm... generic.
They got the bastard!
Sweeter words have never been spoken! Congratulations to the Iraqi people, and of course to the Americans who stuck to the task. There shouldn't be a doubt now that the Americans will stay the course and Iraq will rise into a powerful and balanced state in the world.
This momentous event also should send a strong message to the rest of the defeated entourage: "give up, we'll get your ass!". More importantly I hope it will send the message to the every single despot in the world that if he is above his own locally manufactured laws, he will not be above those of human decency and the world.
Well done and congratulations once again.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 12:38 ||
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I wonder how the pictures of Sadaam looking like the Unabomber as he is being checked for head lice will play on the "Arab Street."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 12:56 Comments ||
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The soldier who checked Sammy for head lice and put a tongue depressor in his mouth deserves at least the Bronze Star. Ycch!
Posted by: Matt ||
12/14/2003 14:19 Comments ||
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sammy looked like a pony be examined by the vet before auction. (or kid's picnic)
Posted by: mic ||
12/14/2003 16:59 Comments ||
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Great find, Fred!
We can only hope that Mahmood's sentiments are shared by a good part of the Middle East and a certain bobbleheaded leader in NorKor.
#5
Great find, Fred!
We can only hope that Mahmood's sentiments are shared by a good part of the Middle East and a certain bobbleheaded leader in NorKor.
CAIRO (Reuters) - Arabs greeted the capture of Saddam Hussein with divided emotions Sunday, regretting welcoming the arrest of a dictator yet tinged with regret that a âsymbolâ of Arab defiance against the United States was behind bars. Tap, tap...
Some feared Saddamâs capture would boost President Bush, who many Arabs believe has waged a campaign against them and other Muslims after the September 11 attacks. But others said that we have all learned to dig our own spider holes the fight against U.S. occupation would go on.
For others, the capture was disappointing news. Saddam may have been seen as a dictator who oppressed his people, but many also saw him as the only Arab leader who stood up to the United States, which they said rode roughshod through the region. âThe only Arab leader who stood up to the United Sates... .â Lesson learned?
Asshats Others said the U.S. success might prove to have a lasting and deep impact fleeting, saying Iraqis were not fighting for Saddam but for an end to the U.S. occupation of Iraq. Poor sportsmanship.
"The situation in Iraq will not change much. I donât think the resistance was linked to Saddam and it will increase as was the case after the death of Uday and Qusay," said Yemeni political analyst Saeed Shabet, referring to Saddamâs two sons. Consider the source.
In Gaza and the West Bank, where Palestinians are pointlessly fighting against an Israeli occupation, some were in somber mood that the United States, correctly perceived as providing unswerving support for Israel, could claim victory. âOccupationâ? GO TO HELL YOU WARLOCK!
"Itâs a great black day in history. I am saying so not because Saddam is an Arab but because he is the only man who said ânoâ to American injustice in the Middle East," said Fadiq Husam, a 33-year-old taxi driver in the West Bank city of Ramallah. Boo, efing, hoo. Tough sh*t assclown!
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
12/14/2003 11:53:33 AM ||
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heh heh Nabbed like a rat hiding in a hole.
You could replace 'arabs' with 'CNN anchors' and it would still be true.
"Makhoul, however, said he was sad that Saddam should meet his fate at the hands of the Americans, whom he said "cared nothing about the Iraqi people."
Samer Saado, an employee at a Damascus flower shop, said he didn't care about Saddam but felt overwhelming sadness for Iraq and the entire Arab world.
"What the Americans are doing in Iraq and everywhere else is humiliating. There's nothing to say we're not next in line," he said."
You got that right, boy.
Posted by: B ||
12/14/2003 13:11 Comments ||
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#3
Reuters will keep spinning like a top slowly moving across the floor until it falls down the stairs. Then it spins around on it side in a circle until it runs out of gas. They can't see reality if it slapped them in the face. Unbelieveable.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/14/2003 13:12 Comments ||
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#4
CNN Anchors seem to be spinning a little, watching Blitzer and co do a tap dance about "a great celibration in Iraq, except a lot of violence ahead" They got very excited about the Bahgdad car bomb until they found out it was only an accident. Blitz had Joe Wilson on to comment....extreme irony considering the Telegraph posts here. He is talking the new Demo party line about 'internationalizing' Saddam's trial so that all Iraqis can see how "the global community stands behind them". Right. 12 years of UN sanction was 'standing behind' Iraqis fer sure.
Posted by: john ||
12/14/2003 13:21 Comments ||
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#5
"the global community stands behind them"
Well, the french and germans were standing behind the Iraqis, certainly. But they didn't even have the decency to offer them a reach-around.
#10
Hey you can't blame the Arabs for what they think. The have been fed that anti-American crap for so long. They still think Saddam is a great leader. Wait a couple of years after they see the Democracy in Iraq. I am not angry I just pity them. At least Howard Dean thinks the capture is a good think. Kerry acted as though Bush orchestrated the capture. I pity these two as well.
MOTHER OF DAYS "They Scheme hard, and I scheme; give them time the Kafirin, give them plenty of timeâ Sadaq Allahu Al Adhimâ . "And they plot, and Allah plots, and Allah is the best of plottersâ, Sadaq Allahu Al Adhim.
Before this, I prayed the traditional prayers of thanksgiving. That I, and the Iraqi people should see this day! This, surely, is the mother of all days for us. The heroes of our valiant Pesh Mergas, and the heroes of the U.S. Fourth division have done it. Now is the time to unleash the Iraqi Counter Terror; now is the time to go for the kill. Let us go after them. Donât lose this moment. They want to recant and live in equality with the people? they have a chance - otherwise they will have to go. I am too overwhelmed with emotion to write coherently; please excuse me. The foul mouths of the enemies of our people everywhere and the neighboring vultures and hyenas be stuffed with dirt; we will come after you; your time will come.
Long live the great alliance of Mesopotamia and the United States of America and her allies. Now is the time, now is the time; Do not delay; unleash the Counter Terror.
God Bless Iraq; God Bless America; God bless the Allies.
And above all Praise be to Allah the Almighty the Avenger.
Salaam
Alaa
# posted by Alaa : 6:50 AM
Comments (32)
PLEASE GOD LET IT BE TRUE
Friends,
If the news we are just hearing about the capture of the Monster is true then I thank God for letting me live to this day to see this. Will report to you later.
Salaam
Alaa
# posted by Alaa : 4:01 AM
Go, buddy! A victory for us!
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 11:14 ||
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"They want to recant and live in equality with the people...unleash the Counter Terror"
Talk about passion. Yea man, route'em out and get'm on the run. Hoootay!
#2
I am deeply envious Alaa and his countrymen. At a time when so many in America have come to take our freedom and prosperity for granted, and bicker and whine at the "unfairness" of our life, the Iraqi people can witness, celebrate and take part in the birth of a free nation.
O, to cherish freedom that much.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
12/14/2003 13:09 Comments ||
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#3
"unleash the Counter Terror"
Tumbrels, baby! Tumbrels!
Posted by: Fred ||
12/14/2003 13:20 Comments ||
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#5
IN THE NAME OF GOD THE COMPASSIONATE, THE MERCIFUL
Some have questioned the identity of some of the Iraqi bloggers. I don't know any of them, but takes an Arab to write that. Remember "Avenger of the Bones" are Alaa's words. Press conference today: English-speaking reporters asked questions. Arab-speaking reporters could not ask questions without prefacing emotional discourse. They needed the release. Different folks.
Saddam Hussein captured
Saddam Hussein has been captured alive near his home town of Tikrit in a major coup for the beleaguered US-led occupation forces in Iraq.
"Yeah! Maybe they got him, but it ain't a real victory..."
US occupying administrator Paul Bremer said Hussein was captured late on Saturday after more than eights months of searching for him.
"Took all that time, and there he was in Tikrit, all the time. Incompetents!"
Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez told a news conference on Sunday that the army had received intelligence late on Saturday of two possible hideouts near the village of Aghwar.
"Somebody hadda tell 'em where to look!"
Some 600 special forces participated in the raid to capture the ousted Iraqi leader, who was found hiding in what Sanchez called "a spider hole".
"Took all those guys to capture one dictator!"
US forces showed a videotape of the hideout. The video showed a bearded Hussein recieving a medical examination, to the applause of the journalists.
"They humiliated the poor man in public!"
Probably within 24 hours, somebody's going to say that showing those clips was a violation of some provision of the Geneva Convention, violating the poor dictator's privacy. I think we all know that...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 08:23 ||
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#1
I think the video will form the first few minutes of GWB's convention video. And rightly so.
Posted by: Tibor ||
12/14/2003 8:27 Comments ||
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#2
It will be an unhappy breakfast at Al Jazzera, the BBC, CNN and the faculty lounge at UC Berkeley.
#3
Well, that's one Democrat talking point taken away.
The trolls are gonna be hell for the next day and a half.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
12/14/2003 9:32 Comments ||
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#4
How many Ninecompoops will drop out this week? Lieberman and Gephart seem to be the smartest of them...
Terrible things are being plotted for the next 11 months by the Bad Guys. If they don't come off, the Dems might as well mail in their participation in the elections. If they come off and Bush handles them as he's demonstrated he can, they still might as well mail it in.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/14/2003 11:49 Comments ||
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#5
Notice something odd. People (also journalists) worldwide talk about "Saddam Hussein," or "Saddam," or "Hussein." In the NYT he's consistently "Mr. Hussein" Anyone care to psychoanalyze that? NYT item on this event ended with a oh, btw, another bombing note, desperate for as many RPMs as they could muster.
OH THEY TOOK IT OUT
NYT story by Wong and Semple has been rewritten since it was first put up. He's still Mr. Hussein to then tho.
From Al-Jizz...
Here are the views of leading analysists and political commentators on the capture of Saddam Hussein.
Mustafa Alani, Analyst at Royal United Services Institute in London:
"There will be a reduction in operations sponsored by former regime loyalists, but this is not the full story because they are not the only group involved. It won't affect those by Iraqi or Arab mujahideen and might increase them because those who did not want to be branded as supporters of Saddam might now join a resistance with a more nationalist dimension.
"The Merkins really screwed up, 'cuz now the guys that don't like Sammy will unite to throw them out."
For the Americans after the failure to capture Osama bin Laden after so many years, it is a propaganda coup, especially if he was captured alive. It's an intelligence prize because they can get information from him about cells working now. And it's a huge victory because he was the head of the regime and not like anyone else on the list of 55 most wanted."
Kind of grudgingly got around to that admission, didn't he?
The insurgency has grown well beyond Saddam's control or even influence. There are 15 to 30 groups that have no direct contact, financially or strategically, with Saddam Hussein. His capture gives the United States a window of opportunity. If they redouble their efforts and increase their troop commitment, they could contain or even roll back the insurgency. But the temptation of Bush, facing a re-election campaign, will be to call this victory and cut and run. That would be a disaster for Iraq, for the Middle East and for the strategic interests of the United States in the region and beyond."
Yep. Bush usually takes the easy way out, doesn't he?
Jalal Talabani, Iraqi Governing Council member and head of Patriotic Union of Kurdistan:
"With the arrest of Saddam the financial resources feeding terrorists have been destroyed and his arrest will put an end to terrorist acts in Iraq,"
Don't spend a lot of time on Talabani â he's important, but he's friendly with the Merkins...
Amar Al-Hakim, Member of the Central Council of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq:
"The Iraqi nation is happy and the sound of gunfire indicate the Iraqi's people's joy and happiness. His arrest will put an end to military and terrorist attacks and the Iraqi nation will achieve stability. We want Saddam to get what he deserves. I believe he will be sentenced to hundreds of death sentences at a fair trial because he's responsible for all the massacres and crimes in Iraq."
"Yar! We'll give 'im a fair trial, then hang 'im!"
Walid Moubarak- Beirut based political analyst:
"I think the reaction is going to be positive, but there are still questions about the occupation of Iraq... I don't think this will resolve that. But we will have to wait and see how people will react in Iraq. What I know about their (U.S.) behaviour is that there have been mistakes. I hope they have learned from their mistakes."
Oooh. Those grapes are really sour!
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 08:02 ||
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#1
Where's Arafat's reaction? Still working on his statement of regret, expression of sorrow?
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/14/2003 8:06 Comments ||
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#2
Christine Amapour (CNN)say, "..but Osama still hasn't been caught".
#3
Arafat's statement consisted of "oh crap", a lot of shaking, and then some whining.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
12/14/2003 9:37 Comments ||
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#4
Saddam Hussein al-Asswipe, you have been convicted of crimes against the Iraqi people. You are sentanced to reside in a warehouse surrounded by family members of those you have tortured and murdered, for the remaining minutes of your life.
#6
Tim Blair got these reactions from the Dean for Pres website
----------------------------------
UPDATE. Howard Deanâs supporters are distraught:
"Sigh. All I can think about is the effect of Saddam's capture on the Dean campaign! ... Somebody cheer me up, please!"
I'd love to, but I'm not licensed to prescribe psychotropic medication. Next:
"It is hard to believe this adminstration about Saddam when they are prone to lying about Thanksgiving TURKEYS...and what was that about BA pilots see Airforce One which was also a lie."
It was a plastic Saddam! Canada can evidently expect an influx of peace tards:
"todays events makes me pity our country even more....not that I like Hussein,but that now his capture seems to make us righteous in our invasion to somehow.....I feel the US will sink to newer lows and unprecedented actions globally....and makes Canada even more attractive to me."
And my favourite, which may or may not be satire:
"Damn it, CNN is again showing Iraqi citizens celebrating Saddam's capture. This is not good! Dean shouldn't say anything for now. He should immediately contact Paul Krugman of the NY Times for advice on how to put a negative spin on this."
#7
No! No more peace tards to Canada! We've already got a government full of them. Send the to...ah...Vermont! The Peace Tard Republic of Vermont.
I for one am going to throw a big party! And get very drunk and happy! Congratulations to all in the Coalition for the blood expended in getting this monster out of circulation (sic). A public hanging at halftime during the Superbowl would be excellent!
Posted by: john ||
12/14/2003 11:24 Comments ||
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#8
Bummer. Why did they take him alive. Now we get years of Mr. Hussein's trial. Turn him over to the Iraqi war crimes and make sure they have the death penalty available.
#11
Mercutio, Saddam will live for a few years, but he will SING. There will the answers to uncomfortable questions that some "allies" will have to answer for.
#13
here's a comment from Democratic Underground
-------------------------------------
seekthetruth (1000+ posts) Sun Dec-14-03 11:36 AM Response to Reply #10 91. war crimes??
please!!! there are several here in our own country that deserve to be tried for WAR CRIMES - first! get real!
------------------------------------
see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=268717#268735
#14
NZ Bear has a great point: Logically everyone who thinks that the war was illegal ought to insist that Saddam, as Iraq's "rightful" ruler, be restored to power. Any takers?
Posted by: Matt ||
12/14/2003 17:03 Comments ||
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The news is a little tenuous at the moment tho...
News conference set for 12GMT
More, same article updated... Tony Blair has confirmed that former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been captured alive in his home town of Tikrit. Mr Blair, who has returned to Downing Street from Chequers, said in a statement that Saddam was seized last night at around 3am this morning.
Today's hump day in the War on Terror...
The British Prime Minister said the arrest "removes the shadow" of his return from Iraq and "gives an opportunity for Saddam to be tried in Iraqi courts". Reports say Saddam was "dug out of a cellar" from a house in a poverty-stricken area during a raid by US forces, backed by Kurdish troops. It is claimed that DNA tests have been carried out and his identity confirmed. Saddam was apparently found with a suitcase containing half a million dollars worth of cash.
No word on how the neighborhood came to be poverty-stricken...
Ahmad Chalabi, leader of the Iraqi National Congress, has said Saddam will probably be put on trial. A spokesman for the INC said: "We are 100% sure Saddam has been detained by American forces." A top Iraqi official said US administrator Paul Bremer called Iraqi leaders by telephone to tell them the news. The US Defence Department is still refusing to confirm the reports but a press conference has been announced for 12pm GMT. In Baghdad, a spokeswoman for the US-led operation notified reporters that a "very important" announcement will be made at the press conference. It is not known who the speaker will be. The news is spreading around Iraq rapidly and hundreds of exultant people have taken to the streets of Kirkuk and Baghdad firing weapons into the air in celebration.
From CNN...
The person in U.S. custody was disguised in a false nose and moustache fake beard when he was captured in the basement in a Tikrit building, Ahmad Chalabi of the Iraqi National Congress said. Hours after the word leaked out on the possible capture, there were volleys of what was perceived to be celebratory gunfire in Baghdad.
Al-Jizz sez... Saddam Hussein captured - Tony Blair
Unconfirmed reports say that ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been captured in his hometown of Tikrit.
My! These grapes are very sour!
A US defence official was quoted as saying: "We may have him," on Sunday.
Sure starting to look like it, ain't it?
Kurdish leader Jalal Talabani was quoted by the official Iranian news agency on Sunday as saying that the leader had been captured. But these reports could not be confirmed.
"We're waiting for something from the Baath Party..."
Despite the lack of official confirmation, a wide range of sources are being quoted by various news agencies that they believe Saddam could be in custody. A British diplomatic source also said a suspect who could be Hussein is in custody. The US Defence Department said they could not confirm the report. Intifad Qanbar, the spokesperson for the US-backed Iraqi Governing Council, claimed DNA tests had shown that the captive was Hussein. He claimed the ousted leader had been disguised in a beard when he was captured.
... and a blond wig. And a bustier...
Associated Press also qouted unnamed Iraqi officials as citing US occupying administrator Paul Bremer as saying the ousted leader has been captured. But US military officials in Baghdad refused to confirm the reports, saying a press conference at 3:00pm (1200GMT) would be held. Earlier, Nazim Dabbagh, a representative of Talabani's Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, confirmed Talabani's statement. In Hussein's hometown of Tikrit and elsewhere in the country, people poured into the streets at the news.
Gosh, Jizzy! Doing what?
Fox News sez...
The snag was by U.S. Special Forces... No resistance... Based on local intel tip somebody suddenly became very wealthy... Reports say he apparently dug himself a hole and pulled it in over himself, and the troops had to dig him out with shovels... Being held in Baghdad...
CPA Briefing
"Ladies and gentlemen, we got 'im!... The tyrant is a prisoner." Calls for opposition to end, lay down arms, join Iraqis in building the new Iraq. Sanchez sez it was 4th ID and Special Forces, the site a farmhouse near Tikrit, at Adwar. Not a shot was fired. Sammy is talkative and cooperative. Operations was called Red Dawn. Approx 600 troops took part. Detected a camouflaged spider hole entrance, with Sammy hiding at the bottom 6-8 feet deep, with enough space for a person to lie down inside it. 2 AK47s, a pistol, a taxi, and $750,000 in $100 bills. Two other Iraqis detained. They showed pictures of Sammy being examined weeping by Iraqis at the briefing, and not tears of despair... Best part was seeing Sammy's head examined for lice...
News briefing first English question was "How did he manage to elude capture for so long?"...
A tidbit from Albawaba...
Meanwhile, Ibrahim Janabi, a leader of the Iraqi National Accord (INA), one of the groups opposed to Saddam's regime, told Albawaba by phone, "I can confirm ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was captured in Tikrit." He added that Saddam was arrested while, "wearing a traditional Arab gown (Dishdashah), carrying a rifle, pistol and wearing an explosive belt strapped around his body, but he used none of them as he preferred to give himself up." Furthermore, Janabi said Saddam was arrested along with two of his bodyguards.
The CPA brief didn't say anything about the boom belt, or even about Sammy being armed and dangerous, only that a couple AKs were captured. I'd guess this would be embroidery though it'd make good propaganda.
Posted by: Lux ||
12/14/2003 5:05:29 AM ||
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#1
(Thanks for posting this!)
I pray God that it's true! Yes! Hooah! Thank you, US forces!
#2
I'm awaiting confirmation of this report by any other source. So far, this is the only report I've seen, so I'm not shooting into the air with my AK-47 just yet....
#3
There is wild cerebratory gun-fire across all of Bagdad. There are conformations coming in from British Diplomatic sources, and the original breaking story was from Iran. This may be true. Thank God...
And when you get done thanking God thank the US Army.
I guess it is hard to express to the left how much this means for the US to capture this murdering f*cker!, so I will tell the left to STFU. Mission accomplished!
One other thought: Assad? You hearing this? You gonna behave and turn over the suppliers of munitions to Saddam? You can't run and you can't hide. Not from US forces.
#10
The question is what do we do with him now? For a while I have been torn or whether or not it wouldnât be better than he be killed during capture. But I think I was wrong...The Iraqiâs seem from live video footage to be very, very happy. This may help destroy his almost mythic standing in the Iraqi mind.
So I guess heâs eventually turned over to the Iraqi governing Council for trial. And what position does this put the Europeans, so staunchly anti-death penalty, if the Iraqi people decide that Saddam should be executed? Further, what if, during interrogation, he coughs up some good data on WMD? Oh, the possibilities are delicious.
And yet, all that really matter is that this may help Iraq calm down...for the benefit of the Iraqis, of course, but also so American Soldiers arenât in so much damned danger.
#12
The alternative headline should be: 'Saddam Hussein Captured; Anti-war Protestors All Over the World Commit Suicide'
God let this be for real.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/14/2003 7:07 Comments ||
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#13
Note to all Rantburgers who want to fire their AK47s in celebration.
1) Don't hold it vertically: AK47 bulletts don't satellize: they end going down. Remember that KKK member who was wounded during a ceremony. I would shed no tears for him but I would hate the same thing happenning to a loyal Rantburger.
2) Take cover if you hear one your neigbours is firing in celebration.
3) Wear a helmet and if at all possible kevlar armor (again due to the neighbours).
4) Celebratory fire has to be done with AK47 only. That is the tradition. AK74s, M16s, Galils, M1A1s, Patriots, ICBMs are not allowed. Blblbl tough luck for their owners.
However AK47s are cheap. Specially in Peshawar.
#15
I would be curious to hear what RBers think of the press conference. One thing in particular is what you think of the sound & tone & volume (heh) of the questions in Arabic, as well as the translations of those questions. The real flavor of dealing with Arabs is there - and I wonder if anyone found it interesting.
I'll also be curious to see what Zayed and other Iraqi bloggers have to say.
#16
"How did he manage to elude capture for so long?"
They were keeping him as a Christmas present for the troops and a New Year's gift for the Iraqi people. They even built a special hole for him to keep it a surprise.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/14/2003 7:45 Comments ||
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#17
Sanchez is a sharp cookie at a press conference
Q: What was Saddam doing at the time you captured him?
Sanchez: He was hiding.
#18
I don't speak Arabic, but I sense the thrust of the Iraqi press corps' questions were: can we have a piece of Saddam?
The reaction when they first showed video of Saddam was kinda frightening. I got the sense that this man held such sway and fear over this country where he murdered and rape with such impunity, that members of the Iraqi press were overcome with relief.
#19
.com, I can tell you one thing for sure: no joy and celebration on the streets of Gaza today.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/14/2003 7:51 Comments ||
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#20
How does one ululate? I want to learn how so I can let forth with a couple of good loud yells today.
Posted by: Joe ||
12/14/2003 7:52 Comments ||
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#21
".com," I thought the Arabic reaction was incredible!
They were so explosively happy.
Those Iraqi guys went absolutely nuts when they showed the video of "Homeless Guy/Prisoner Saddam!"
(One man seemed to be sobbing at one point.)
And the many Arabic press people who praised the Coalition and their American "brothers" and called it a "new day for Iraq...!"
What a morning. Christmas really did come early, especially for the Iraqis, but for America, too!
I'm proud to have been a part of it, with my tax dollars if nothing else!
#22
I wonder if Howard Dean thinks that this is a good thing.
Posted by: Tibor ||
12/14/2003 8:09 Comments ||
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#23
5:15am(MST)News conference,
Paul Bremer:"We got him".
Blew me away to hear a Moslem calling Americans and Coalition members"Brothers"and Bremer"Dear Brother".
#28
Merry Christmas everybody!It's great to be alive at this moment,I can tell you:-)
PS.re:Saddam's fate.There's only one thing that Saddam is useful for;he can help establish rule of law in Iraq by being the first to be convicted of war crimes against his countrymen by a jury of peers.That'll help a lot.
Posted by: El Id ||
12/14/2003 8:20 Comments ||
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#29
Christmas came early. Congratulations America.
But where was his suicide belt??? Saladin must be turning in his grave!
#36
First a shave and a shower, then a really long chat. He needs to look good for his appointment with the hangman.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
12/14/2003 9:36 Comments ||
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#37
TGA #29 - there is one report from an Arab source that he was both armed and wearing a suicide belt but did not offer resistance or trigger the belt.
Haven't heard that confirmed by other sources yet but I just got the news ....
#39
God Bless our troups, and the people of Iraq. Let's hope their future is as full of joy and opportunity and freedom as their recent past has been filled with horror and oppression.
Like the man said, "Today's humpday in the War On Terror", but OH WHAT A HUMP!
Can't wait to see the drunken, sloppy-happy post from Zeyad!!!!!! Fire one off for me Z-Blog!
#40
How many millions did Saddam spend on those elaborate, well-stocked, German-made bunkers, only to be rousted from a second-rate foxhole looking like a dumpster diver behind a 7-11?
Ah, Sweet Justice!
Posted by: Dar ||
12/14/2003 10:14 Comments ||
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#41
Ding Dong! The witch is as good as dead!
Posted by: B ||
12/14/2003 10:15 Comments ||
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#42
Looks like his luck ran out. Sing with me...
Timothy Learyz Dead!
#44
Fruits of the wine: How sweet it is watching the sour grapes!!
I was watching a reporter on CNN, standing in front of #10 Downing and looking so very glum...like he'd lost his best friend. He was consoling himself that this wouldn't help Blair - since it was never about finding Sadaam - but about finding the wmd's (which, by the way, they haven't found yet).
Ahh...watching them drink the vinegar while we drink the wine, makes it taste all the much sweeter!.
Posted by: B ||
12/14/2003 10:29 Comments ||
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#45
JFM,
I just fired a whole box of ammo especially for you ! (i'm also considering firing a smal WMD to celebrate the ocation).
Joe,
here goes:
1) open your mouth.
2)put your middle finger between your open lips
3)shriek your lungs out while undulating your finger between the upper and lower lips.
am doing the same here, (Jerusalem) I am sure they can hear me in bagdad now!
Seriousely, this deserves a little celebration.
Where's that bottle of "The Balvenie DoubleWood"
12 years old single malt I put aside for a special day ?
I wish I could pour all of you RB's a tumbler !
Posted by: The Dodo ||
12/14/2003 10:34 Comments ||
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#46
Then yield thee, coward,
And live to be the show and gaze o' the time:
We'll have thee, as our rarer monsters are,
Painted on a pole, and underwrit,
'Here may you see the tyrant.'
#47
Yip Yip Yippee! Wonder how long before they start calling this Bush's "December Surprise"?
Now for the next step in the war on terror, beating the Cowboys today. Ulululululululululu!!!
Posted by: Steve ||
12/14/2003 10:40 Comments ||
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#48
What was this guy thinking to let himself be taken alive? Does he think he can justify his behavior to a tribunal? Does he think France, Russia, and Germany will still stand by him? Does he think he can be made into a martyr by giving some dramatic, bombastic, Ba'athist rhetoric on the gallows?
I can't imagine what he was thinking in giving himself up and allowing himself to be filmed and humiliated. If he was tired of running, the best thing for him to do was stay in some random hole and put a bullet in his brain so nobody would ever find him and his sympathizers could continue to laugh at the US for not finding him. He's just given his greatest enemy their greatest PR moment of the year!
All in all, great news! I expect we'll see some desperate attacks in the next month from the die-hard Ba'athists who now realize they've got no chance to succeed and will choose to flame out, but long term this is a huge win for Free Iraq and the Coalition!
Remember when Saddam was re-elected with 100% of the vote back in October of '02? Guess all those Iraqis celebrating on TV today were disenfranchised back then. ;-)
Posted by: Dar ||
12/14/2003 10:42 Comments ||
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#49
TGA--Excellent quote!
I'm thinking Saddam would make a great ornament on the White House Christmas tree!
Joy to the World!
Posted by: Dar ||
12/14/2003 10:43 Comments ||
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#50
P.S.
May the Arafish follow the footsteps of his sponsor!
Joe,
I'm reserving some ammo for the Arafish death party celebrations in the Mukata'ah (to follow soon).
Posted by: The Dodo ||
12/14/2003 10:44 Comments ||
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#51
The Dodo
Thank you for the ammo box. I will drink to your health.
#52
Dar - He'd make an excellent ornament hanging from a Crawford cottonwood... But they're going to let the Iraqis have him. I don't know if you've noticed, but they're not as... ummm... gentle as the U.S.A.
But don't put your full weight down yet. Remember, it'll be time for Dire Revengeâ¢...
Posted by: Fred ||
12/14/2003 10:53 Comments ||
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#53
JFM, may you drink deep brother!
and I will drink deeper for you and for all the American, British, Polish, Italian and other freedom loving allies' soldiers doing all the hard work down there.
I wish I could be there to help.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
12/14/2003 10:57 Comments ||
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#54
TGA, great quote. Dar, as for why didn't he kill himself, consider the possibility that he's a coward. This is a great day.
Posted by: Matt ||
12/14/2003 11:05 Comments ||
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#55
Fred,
Don't worry, by the time they let the iraqis have him he would be sucked dry (by "very gentle" interrogation means, I'm sure) of every crumb of information he knows and I trust the guy to drag baby Assad and a few other terrorists and terrorist backers into the abyss with him.
Think there's a chance he might spill out the location of all those WMD's he stashed away ??
Posted by: The Dodo ||
12/14/2003 11:05 Comments ||
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#56
What happened to the "brave man" we saw on TV some eight months ago vowing to fight the USA until his last breath? He was found cowering, sharing a hole in the ground with rats. Let this be a key lesson to all you young, extremists who take up arms and C-4 belts at the behest of your "brave", Islamofacist leaders. They donât mind you dying for your raisins in Heaven, but given their opportunity for bravery, they cower among the rats in a tiny hole in the ground. This is the dedication and leadership that is eager to march you over the precipice.
To the terrorists: Clearly you have choice. You may either be blindly led over this steep, foundationless, ledge; or you may turn and look upon your leaders for the feckless cowards that they are. Speak brave words of vacuous courage, then dig a hole and lie fallow with the rats. Or, speak brave words of vacuous courage, then wave your guns in anger. In the latter case we will mow you son of a bitches down and return you to the dust from which you born. Or, we will dig your sorry ass out that spider hole you may chose to hide in. Cleary, the choice is yours. The only issue that remains open: Just how long it will take us to find you. But keep this in mind: It is only a matter of time.
Congratulations to all the men and women in the Iraqi theatre of operations. Job well done.
#57
Ding, dong the thug is jugged
which old thug?
the baathist thug
ding dong the baathist thug is jugged
He'll go were the goblins go -
Gitmo, Gitmo, Gitmo!
#58
TGA, congratulations for the quote - bulleye !!
Being a native mid-eastern myself I would like to reciprocate with the (somewhat less eloquent) poetic Arabic idiom:
"Kul Calb Bij'yomo"
{lamely translated as: "every dog has his day coming"}
I would like to compensate for the lack of poetic expression by toasting a glass of good Schnapps to your health.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
12/14/2003 11:14 Comments ||
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#59
I almost choked on my tongue while ululating - Ack!
No comment from the nine dwarves?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/14/2003 11:17 Comments ||
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#60
To Osama and Saddam
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar...
...This is the way tyrants end
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Sen. McCain was just on, blathering about how Saddam should be tried by the Iraqis and -then- the ICC (which would mean no death penalty for him once the ICC punks got him into custody). That's what he's probably thinking. If so, he's in for a big rude awakening with George "I Wuuves the Death Penalty" W. Bush in charge. That, and he's a coward, as was already mentioned
Posted by: Ernest Brown ||
12/14/2003 12:05 Comments ||
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#65
Aaron Brown looked like he wanted to cry. Nic Robertson (reporting from baghdad) looks like he's disappointed somehow. Foxnews is showing the celebrations in Iraq, but they're the only ones. I imagine by the time Dubya's speech is over, CNN will be spinning this into some kind of disaster.
I would say send the mutt straight to the Hague, but those eurofag commie bastards would probably try to make saddam a permanent rep to the u.n. Maybe we should just give him to the Kuwaitis and let them behead the mutt.
#68
I have a suggestion for the Iraqi government. Buy a large quantity of epoxy resin. Try Hussein, use real evidence - that will mean a virtually automatic guilty verdict. Put the sad little piece of rubbish into a box, pour in the resin until he's completeley covered, and the resin is at least six to eight inches thick on all sides, and let it harden. Suspend that in a slightly larger space, and pour in more resin, until Hussein is completely enclosed within a cube of clear resin, at least 10 inches thick. Suspend it in the middle of the busiest intersection in Baghdad, as a daily reminder of what DID happen, to make sure it never happens again.
Hussein will have his immortality, but it won't be anything like what he'd envisioned!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/14/2003 12:47 Comments ||
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#69
If the Iraqis decide to go the firing squad route (instead of the shredder, beheading, TGA's inventive suggestion, etc.) I wonder how they'll pick who gets to be on the firing squad? Only about twenty million people personally want a piece of this guy.
Maybe the solution is a lottery. If you include the Kurds, the Shia's, the Kuwaitis, maybe even the Iranians, and the coalition troops, you can get a real Middle Eastern Powerball going. It would jumpstart the Iraqi economy.
Posted by: Matt ||
12/14/2003 12:49 Comments ||
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#70
No comment from the nine dwarves?
They're all wondering what ELSE could go wrong with their 'campaign strategies'- economy booming, saddam rolled up, e.u. going into the crapper. They're going to have to start sending funds to al qaeda and hizbollah (if they already aren't, the bastards) to try and bring Dubya down.
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
12/14/2003 13:01 Comments ||
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#72
I bet Lieberman will make the first statement by a Democrat.
It was hard to see Sadaam's picture on the TV because my kids were whacking the screen with the heels of their sneakers. I did notice that we were wrong to look for Elvis all theis time. The Baathists had made him up to look like Jerry Garcia.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 13:19 Comments ||
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#73
Okay, Wolf Blitzer is starting up the DNC spin: "do you think it's a mistake to take saddam alive, or should he have been killed?" We'll see which one of the dwarves takes that and runs with it.
#74
So what are they doing in Gaza today? Passing out Tums or something?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/14/2003 13:28 Comments ||
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#75
Saddam will tell us everything he knows in exchange for a nice cell in florida (he can play cards with neriega)
By the time we are done with him, we will know the full WMD story, and probably the location of the lindbergh baby, and what happens to matching socks when they go into the dryer.
If your boyfriend doesn't let you ululate and fire your AK47 then remind him that there is a looong line of people wanting to replace him. :-) And no, I am not in the line. :-)
#77
Thank God as the author of Justice, and the US Armed Forces as His Divine Arm enforcing it! I learned the news while at Church, and I do believe the Choir sounded a heck of a lot better than usual!
Good quote, TGA!
4th: I predict that the Dihimmicrats will be as unreasonable as usual: They were PO'ed when Saddam's hellspawn were killed, and they'll be equally PO'ed that Saddam was captured alive. Although I get PO'ed easily, I do it in private and very rarely curse someone publicly. However, I DO plan to tell anyone who winges about this to F**K *FF.
#78
A great day indeed. TGA: thank you for the heart felt sentiments and the great Macbeth quote. Season's greetings to you and yours. Alaska Paul....what are the Paleo thugs doing? Just what you suspected... holding pro Saddam rallies and burning flags, displaying for all the world that they should be moved up on the "To Do" list. In fact, the response from the Arab world is disgusting in its silence...all the while Iraqis celebrate in the streets.
And now....time for a glass of the local bubbly that I have saved just for this. Season's greetings Rantburgers!
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
12/14/2003 14:46 Comments ||
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#79
Ahhh! Cheap champagne! My favorite!
Posted by: Fred ||
12/14/2003 14:55 Comments ||
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#80
Why cheap? If you are disgusted at the French then buy Spanish or California champagne but buy a good one: it is a memorable occasion.
#81
I remember the falls of two tyrants, Hitler and Stalin. Hitler's death was broadcast with a lie on the (still Nazi controlled) radio. And when the news came that Stalin had died the guards wept in the camp and when one inmate broke out in cheers he was shot in the head.
The Iraqis had a better day than that. I hope that this picture of Saddam will stick in the minds of those who are still under the rule of oppressors. And I hope that the Iraqis take note: It was the Americans who showed you that Saladin had no clothes. Bomb away the Americans you'll bomb away your future and just make room for another tyrant. Just his hat will be different.
#89
Btw, anyone know when the last head of state was captured by an opposing force? Napoleon? Or perhaps Nicholas II?
I guess Santa Ana was later than Napoleon--I'm just curious when the last time one was captured in action. I guess Noriega could count, although he's relatively small fry.
Posted by: Dar ||
12/14/2003 18:27 Comments ||
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#90
Napoleon III in Sedan (1870), by the Prussians, for example.
#91
I want to thank Mr. Pruitt and all his posters for Rantburg. News and comedy all in one place.
After two frustrating decades of helplessly watching this monster, I have lived to see him come to his deserved end.
I read about the capture here first, clicked on the television and since then I've just been staggering around all day in delighted shock. I am astonished by the incredible persistence of the U.S. military. They are amazing. They put their lives on the line every day and then they find the prize in the crackerjack (sand?) box, too!
Wow.
God bless America and her honorable, courageous Armed Forces.
God bless the Iraqi people and their endeavor to be free.
Confirms the speculation prior to the Iraq war that China (as well as France and Russia) were more interested in stopping discovery of their sanction breaking activities. Not to mention that the Chinese regime are most definitely not friends.
Chinese military advisers played a key role in helping Saddamâs air defences withstand coalition air strikes in the months preceding Operation Iraqi Freedom, according to the Iraqi colonel who last week revealed details of Saddamâs programme of weapons of mass destruction. Lieutenant-Colonel al-Dabbagh, whose revelations about Saddamâs battlefield WMD capability were revealed exclusively last week in the Telegraph, said he worked with a number of Chinese air-defence specialists during 2002 and the early part of this year to devise methods to stop coalition air strikes destroying Iraqâs air defences. "They arrived in the spring of 2002," said al-Dabbagh, who commanded an air defence unit in Iraqâs Western desert. "They were personally greeted by Saddam and seemed very happy to be in Iraq. A couple of them even grew moustaches and wore keffiyehs (Arab scarves) around their heads so that they would look more like us."
Saddam is believed to have made a secret military deal with Beijing, which opposed the Iraq war at the United Nations security council. This was a clear breach of UN sanctions imposed on Iraq at the end of the Gulf War. The deal was struck in late 2001 after allied warplanes, which were then patrolling the no-fly zone in southern Iraq, attacked and destroyed several Iraqi radar installations. "Saddam went absolutely crazy," al-Dabbagh recalled. "He said, âIf we donât do something fast there will be no radar left in Iraq.â"
Initially, the Iraqis recruited about a dozen Serb air-defence specialists, who were each paid $100,000 (£57,000) a month to help devise a method to protect Iraqâs air defences from attack. But their contract was terminated when their attempts to devise a mobile radar system failed because they could not find a truck large enough to carry the equipment. According to al-Dabbagh, the Chinese were more successful and devised a sophisticated decoy device which forced missiles fired by allied warplanes to hit the wrong targets. "The Chinese device only cost $25, but it was very successful," said al-Dabbagh. "The American pilot would return home thinking he had hit three of our radar units, when in fact all he would have hit were three $25 decoys." Al-Dabbagh, who is now in hiding in Iraq after death threats following last weekâs revelations, said Saddam was delighted with the device and personally thanked the Chinese technicians, who performed an oriental dance in honour of the tyrant. And BTW, I think these kinds of relevations will go on for years as Saddam era archives are examined.
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12/14/2003 2:53:36 AM ||
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I think this answers why Canada is a special case. The contries that are excluded from contracts are those htat broke sanctions.
It has nothing to do with supporting the coalition or not. The implication about the "security" rationale should be a message that infomation about complicity will be divulged publically if the US is pushed.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 13:23 Comments ||
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#2
The Chinese, hm? Well, just think what Saddam is going to be able to tell us about France, Russia, and Germany's side action all during the vaunted UN sanctions! It's not just the Ba'athists who will be wailing and gnashing teeth.
Posted by: Dar ||
12/14/2003 17:04 Comments ||
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#3
Long as they didn't turn on the radars the decoys worked just fine.
Iraqâs coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious Palestinian terrorist.
Found at LGF; I suggest reading the whole thing. I have absolutely no idea how true this is; it all seems a little bit too convenient to me. Thatâs why Iâm asking here. Anyway, if itâs true, it only reinforces what Iâve said before, that the secular vs. religious divide among the totalitarians doesnât really matter. One final note... the html thingies in the posting page seem broken in my browser; I looked at the source for yesterdayâs page and made a guess as to the proper html. If I screwed up, please excuse me.
Argh! The Army of SteveDan beat me to it. Sorry about the duplication.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/14/2003 0:28 Comments ||
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#2
Mwahahaha!
:P
And yes, anybody reading this should read the whole thing, which I posted in full for Fred to take apart. You can read my own thoughts on the thing over at my blog, but this is pretty damning stuff.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/14/2003 0:30 Comments ||
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#3
Amen, and on another note that was mentioned yesterday, there's this unrelated little goodie at the bottom of the page.
#4
Re-raises another old question - who killed Abu Nidal? And why?
Posted by: Pete Stanley ||
12/14/2003 1:52 Comments ||
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#5
The secular versus islamist divide matters as much as it the communist versus nazi matterred for the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact: at one point the bad guys realize that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Re:#4: I think it's fairly safe to say that Saddam had him killed because, as Dan already pointed out, dead men tell no tales.
Re:#5: From the Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates: The Enemy of My Enemy is my Enemy's Enemy; no more, no less. There's also that old traditional Arabic saying, "Me against my brother, me and my brother against my uncle, me, my brother, and my uncle against the world."
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/14/2003 8:33 Comments ||
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#7
TGA - I wanted to acknowledge Schroeder's respectful and warm message to Pres. Bush:
German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, in a message to US President George W Bush
It's with great delight that I learned of Saddam Hussein's capture. I congratulate you on this successful operation.
Saddam Hussein caused horrible suffering to his people and the region. I hope the capture will help the international community's effort to rebuild and stabilise Iraq.
Contrast it with Chirac's statement through a press secretary:
The president is delighted at the arrest of Saddam Hussein.
This is a major event which should strongly contribute to the democratisation and the stabilisation of Iraq, and allow the Iraqis to once more be masters of their destiny in a sovereign Iraq.
Snipping away what we already knew from the last article ...
Details of Attaâs visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in US history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service. The handwritten memo, a copy of which has been obtained exclusively by the Telegraph, is dated July 1, 2001 and provides a short resume of a three-day "work programme" Atta had undertaken at Abu Nidalâs base in Baghdad. In the memo, Habbush reports that Atta "displayed extraordinary effort" and demonstrated his ability to lead the team that would be "responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy".
Yep. That's pretty huge, assuming this is good data. Even I couldn't believe Sammy would be dumb enough to get involved in the 9-11 attacks. Talk about being a master of miscalculation...
The second part of the memo, which is headed "Niger Shipment", contains a report about an unspecified shipment - believed to be uranium - that it says has been transported to Iraq via Libya and Syria. Although Iraqi officials refused to disclose how and where they had obtained the document, Dr Ayad Allawi, a member of Iraqâs ruling seven-man Presidential Committee, said the document was genuine. "We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddamâs involvement with al-Qaeda," he said. "But this is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks."
Niger, too? Seems like there goes the "Bush lied" routine, the same day the "But you haven't caught Sammy yet" routine. The Dems must be fighting over who gets the gas pipe. Wonder how many of the Ninecompoops are gonna drop out this week?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/14/2003 12:20:01 AM ||
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All things being equal, this should be HUGE.
But you know the LLL--they either won't carry it or will shoot the messenger if they can.
Nevertheless, I believe every word of the report!
A document discovered by Iraqâs interim government details a meeting between the man behind the September 11 attacks and Abu Nidal, the Palestinian terrorist, at his Baghdad training camp. Con Coughlin reports.
For anyone attempting to find evidence to justify the war in Iraq, the discovery of a document that directly links Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks, with the Baghdad training camp of Abu Nidal, the infamous Palestinian terrorist, appears almost too good to be true.
Ever since four hijacked civilian jets devastated the United Statesâ eastern seaboard on September 11, 2001, there have been any number of reports circulating Western intelligence agencies suggesting that Saddam Husseinâs Iraq had close links to al-Qaeda.
Most of the claims relate to meetings between al-Qaeda and Iraqi intelligence to discuss co-operation on matters such as funding, training and equipment.
Prior to the discovery of the document published today by the Telegraph, the most controversial report related to the suggestion that Atta had met Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani, a senior Iraqi intelligence officer, in Prague in April 2001.
But while both President Bush and Tony Blair have dropped numerous hints that they believe there was a significant level of co-operation between Saddam and al-Qaeda, their respective intelligence agencies have actively sought to downplay the significance of the relationship, especially the suggestion that Saddam was in any way involved in the September 11 attacks.
To this end Americaâs Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), with the backing of Britainâs MI6, have poured scorn on Attaâs Prague meeting.
However, the tantalising detail provided in the intelligence document uncovered by Iraqâs interim government suggests that Attaâs involvement with Iraqi intelligence may well have been far deeper than has hitherto been acknowledged.
Written in the neat, precise hand of Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) and one of the few named in the US governmentâs pack of cards of most-wanted Iraqis not to have been apprehended, the personal memo to Saddam is signed by Habbush in distinctive green ink.
Headed simply "Intelligence Items", and dated July 1, 2001, it is addressed: "To the President of the Baâath Revolution Party and President of the Republic, may God protect you."
The first paragraph states that "Mohammed Atta, an Egyptian national, came with Abu Ammer (an Arabic nom-de-guerre - his real identity is unknown) and we hosted him in Abu Nidalâs house at al-Dora under our direct supervision.
"We arranged a work programme for him for three days with a team dedicated to working with him . . . He displayed extraordinary effort and showed a firm commitment to lead the team which will be responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy."
There is nothing in the document that provides any clue to the identity of the "targets", although Iraqi officials say it is a coded reference to the September 11 attacks.
The second item contains a report of how Iraqi intelligence, helped by "a small team from the al-Qaeda organisation", arranged for an (unspecified) shipment from Niger to reach Baghdad by way of Libya and Syria.
Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the controversial shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in his efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit reference in the document to this.
Habbush writes that the successful completion of the shipment was "the fruit of your excellent secret meeting with Bashir al-Asad (the Syrian president) on the Iraqi-Syrian border", and concludes: "May God protect you and save you to all Arab nations."
While it is almost impossible to ascertain whether or not the document is legitimate or a clever fake, Iraqi officials working for the interim government are convinced of its authenticity, even though they decline to reveal where and how they obtained it. "It is not important how we found it," said a senior Iraqi security official. "The important thing is that we did find it and the information it contains."
A leading member of Iraqâs governing council, who asked not to be named, said he was convinced of the documentâs authenticity.
"There are people who are working with us who used to work with Habbush who are convinced that it is his handwriting and signature. We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddamâs dealings with al-Qaeda, and this document shows the extent of the old regimeâs involvement with the international terrorist network."
This is the second document published by this newspaper that appears to highlight Saddamâs links with al-Qaeda. Earlier this year the Telegraph published details of another Iraqi intelligence document that indicated Saddamâs regime was attempting to set up a meeting with Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda leader, who was then based in Sudan.
Intelligence experts point out that a memo such as that written by Habbush would of necessity be vague and short. "Trained intelligence officers hate putting anything down in writing," said one former CIA officer. "You never know where it might turn up."
Certainly the memoâs detail concerning Mohammed Atta and Abu Nidal fits in with the known movements of the two terrorists in the summer of 2001. Abu Nidal, the renegade Palestinian terrorist responsible for a wave of outrages in the 1980s, such as the 1985 bomb attacks on Rome and Vienna airports, was based in Baghdad, under Saddamâs personal protection, for most of his career.
Having briefly relocated to Libya, Abu Nidal returned to Baghdad at some point in early 2001. At the time it was assumed that Saddam had lured the Palestinian terrorist back to help the Iraqi leader plan a number of terrorist attacks aimed at destabilising American plans to remove him.
In particular, Saddam wanted Abu Nidal to revive his network of "sleeper cells" in Europe and the Middle East to carry out a new wave of attacks. During 2001 Abu Nidal lived in a number of houses in the Baghdad area, including a spacious home in the al-Dora district where he is reported to have met Atta.
The relationship between Abu Nidal and Saddam, however, quickly turned sour, mainly because - as the Telegraph reported at the time - the ageing Palestinian leader was reluctant to accede to Saddamâs request to train al-Qaeda fighters in sophisticated terrorist techniques.
Abu Nidal was murdered in August 2001, although the Iraqis tried to claim that he had committed suicide. Habbush appeared at a hastily arranged press conference in Baghdad in an attempt to persuade the sceptical Arab media that Abu Nidal had taken his own life after Iraqi investigators had uncovered a plot to assassinate Saddam.
Although Western intelligence agencies have attempted to trace Attaâs movements in the months preceding September 11, there remain several periods during which his precise whereabouts are unknown. Having moved to Florida from Hamburg in 2000, Atta is known to have made at least two trips from the US to Europe in 2001.
In early January he flew to Madrid for a few days. His next confirmed trip was to Zurich in early July. In between, American investigators have concluded from a detailed examination of Attaâs credit cards and phone records, that he spent most of the spring and early summer of 2001 in Florida, interspersed by occasional domestic trips. The only confirmed sighting of Atta during this period, however, was on April 26 when he was pulled over for a traffic violation in Florida.
This traffic offence, taken with other evidence collated by FBI agents, is one of the reasons that CIA officials have discounted the report that Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague earlier in the month (the Czech authorities claim Atta was in Prague on April 8). Yesterday the New York Times reported that Ani, who was taken into US custody last July, had told American interrogators that he had not met Atta in Prague.
"The Prague meeting does not appear very convincing," said Lorenzo Vidino, a terrorism analyst at The Investigative Project, a non-profit organisation that investigates international terrorism, in Washington. "But even if that meeting did not take place you have to remember that Atta used a large number of aliases when he travelled. It is not inconceivable that Atta slipped out of the US undetected sometime in the first half of 2001."
The US Congressional report into the September 11 attacks states that Atta used 16 to 17 known aliases, although American intelligence experts concede that there may have been others.
It is entirely conceivable, then, that Atta secretly made his way to Baghdad to undertake training with Abu Nidal a few months before the September 11 attacks. But as long as Saddam and his senior intelligence operatives remain at large, it is impossible to assess just how much they knew about, and were involved in, the planning and execution of the September 11 atrocities.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/14/2003 12:18:53 AM ||
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"Written in the neat, precise hand of Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS)..."
Handwritten? If the bad guys depended on handwritten docs in their files, would make their paper trail easier to track and harder to fake.
"...16 to 17 known aliases, although American intelligence experts concede that there may have been others."
Odd choice of conjunction for two clauses that don't really disagree? If you've already got 16 Pakistani passports, what's a few more? Okay as long as they don't all fall out at once when you bend over to pick one up.
PS
The UK newspapers would come out about 5 hours ahead of EST. A search of today's online NYT for "Atta" yields two different items, both of which say about the same thing, both of which go out of their way to emphatically gainsay this. WaPo mum. Glenn (Reynolds not me) notes: "Interesting..." I hope he's not overstating. Watch this space.
#2
The first paragraph states that "Mohammed Atta, an Egyptian national, came with Abu Ammer (an Arabic nom-de-guerre - his real identity is unknown) and we hosted him in Abu Nidalâs house at al-Dora under our direct supervision. "We arranged a work programme for him for three days with a team dedicated to working with him . . . He displayed extraordinary effort and showed a firm commitment to lead the team which will be responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy."
If the planning for the 9/11 plot first began in earnest in 1999, and was supervised directly by the very top leaders of Al Qaeda, like Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, Ayman al-Zawahiri and Osama; what could Mohammad Atta have learned in only a few days in Iraq? Wouldn't he have already gone through training in Afghanistan, learnt how to fly the planes etc?
I'm not denying this out of hand, but I would definitely like to see more detail about what went on..
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
12/14/2003 1:30 Comments ||
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#3
Something regarding anthrax, perhaps?
Call it a hunch ...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/14/2003 1:46 Comments ||
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#4
Atta could have gone to Baghdad to pick up a vial of anthrax and a big, fat check, not to mention tips!
(At least one of the major planners of the first WTC bombing in '93 was in Iraq...)
And then there's Salman Pak where Atta could practice hijacking the plane.
#5
Interesting, the cryptic use of the phrase "approved targets" could match either 9-11 or the anthrax attack. Nidal would have been a better resource for hijacking rather than chemical attack.
I find it hard to believe that people deny that Sadaam was involved in international terrorism without denying existence of the 747 used for hijacking practice.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 13:45 Comments ||
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This kinda clears up the mystery of who plugged Abu Nidal... it was Sammy trying to erase one of his links to 9/11. Case closed?
The separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) yesterday lashed back at Defense Secretary Eduardo Ermita âfor fabricating stories aimed at sabotaging the peace process.â MILF spokesman Eid "Lipless Eddie" Kabalu said it appeared that Ermita was trying to destroy the MILFâs image in the international community when he claimed the rebel group was divided. Ermita was quoted by the local media on Thursday as saying a power struggle within the separatist group was preventing the conclusion of a peaceful settlement between the MILF and the government.
Ermita also insisted that certain MILF commanders were supporting the terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) and training dozens of Indonesian militants in the southern Philippines. âThe MILF is not supporting or aiding the JI and the MILF is united and there is no power struggle nor division among its tens of thousands of members,â Kabalu told Arab News by phone from a rebel hideout in Central Mindanao. âWe are still solid and intact. His statement only shows that he is not sincere in talking peace with us. We believed that his statement is not the position of Malacanang,â Kabalu added.
"We are all six feet four inches tall, blonde and good looking. We can fly and bend steel bars with a single glance. We all know how to dance the polonnaise..."
Ghazali Jaafar, MILF political affairs chief, said the issue should have been discussed within the Coordinating Committee on the Cessation of Hostilities and not with the media âbecause it would affect the ongoing peace talks.â
"Yeah. That ain't the sort of thing we want to get out."
Kabalu said it was obvious that Ermita was also conditioning the minds of the people when he said the split in the MILF leadersâ position on the peace talks could lead to the collapse of the process. He said Ermita wanted the MILF blamed if the peace talks fail. Rebel leaders earlier accused the government of forcing them to sign a peace deal in an effort to use this in the election bid of President Gloria Arroyo in May. A peace deal between the government and the MILF would lead to the release of millions of dollarsâ worth of development aid pledged by the United States and other countries to the southern region, one of the poorest in the Philippines.
But there's more money to be had if they can gnaw off their corner of the Philippines and get some oil deals going...
Kabalu also accused Manila of failing to abide by a cease-fire agreement, saying, troops have remained in Buliok town in Maguindanao after occupying last year an MILF enclave â despite a deal between government and rebel peace panels that the military would pull-out its forces there. âThe government failed on these two agreements and now they are accusing us of so many things,â he said. âThis is a scenario by the government to jusify its failure to comply with the cease-fire agreement and delay further the resumption of the peace talks.â He said the government has not fully complied in dropping all criminal charges against key MILF leaders, including Murad Ebrahim, the groupâs chieftain accused of masterminding the series of bombings in the southern city of Davao that left many civilians dead and wounded early this year.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/14/2003 12:17:09 AM ||
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Did US do good or bad holding onto PI through 48 years of Emilio Aguinaldo bitching they were ready to govern themselves? Too long or too short?
AT LEAST one Jemaah Islamiah (JI) manual on terror tactics has been sold off the shelf in Indonesia. The book on guerilla warfare titled Gerilya, or âguerillaâ in Bahasa Indonesia, and other seized JI manuals and documents have exposed how the network plots its terrorist campaign. Experts say the fine attention to detail in these materials shows that the group is no ragtag bunch of militants but a dangerous network with a clear vision. âThe guidebooks show that the JI had a very sophisticated training programme and a military academy that was well thought out to train members in lethal skills,â said Ms Sidney Jones, head of the International Crisis Groupâs Jakarta chapter.
Boston-based JI expert Zachary Abuza said he bought a copy of Gerilya a few months ago in Yogyakarta at the Majelis Mujahidin Indonesia headquarters. The group was co-founded by Islamic cleric Abu Bakar Bashir, who is also believed to be JIâs spiritual head.
Gerilyaâs author, Abu Fath Al-Pastuni, is an unknown figure, but experts believe his book - which they say is available elsewhere in Indonesia - is a JI manual. Ms Jones believes Gerilya - a photocopied version of which has been obtained by The Sunday Times - is one of the key JI training guides. She said it was probably meant only for JI members, though a few copies could have been put up for sale. It is unclear how many are in print or have been sold. Most experts believe there could be other guidebooks, some still being written.
In the months following last yearâs Bali bombings, Indonesian security officials seized copies of JIâs Constitution, known by its acronym Pupji, and a bomb-making manual written by leader Azahari Husin. In July, they also uncovered the âSemarang documentsâ - a set of Arabic manuscripts that is a warfare and bomb-making manual - during a raid in Semarang, Central Java. All these books detail JIâs ideology and list tactics for ambushing and fighting the enemy.
Gerilya calls on its readers to take aim at invaders, puppet regimes, oppressors as well as anyone who subscribes to Western ideology and to engage in guerilla warfare. Among the advice it dishes out: The best position to attack an army truck is usually when it is turning around a corner and C4 explosives should be used to make bombs deadlier. Dr Abuza described the book as dangerous, saying: âThe Gerilya invokes the Quran in many places to put guerilla warfare in the Islamic context.â A spokesman for the Attorney-Generalâs Office in Jakarta, Mr Kemas Yahya, said the book had not been brought to the officeâs attention. But he said it would now look into the matter.
The Semarang documents are dedicated to Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. Mr Mamun Effendi of the Semarang Institute of Islamic Studies, who is translating the documents, said they were dangerous. âOf the 16 bundles, 11 discuss techniques for making firearms, mines and bombs,â he told local daily Suara Pembaruan.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/14/2003 12:15:30 AM ||
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Informative and mildly edited ...
Governments around the world are not enforcing global sanctions designed to stem the flow of money to al Qaeda and impede the business activity of the organizationâs financiers, allowing the terrorist network to retain formidable financial resources, according to U.S., European and U.N. investigators.
Several businessmen designated by the United Nations as terrorist financiers, whose assets were supposed to have been frozen more than two years ago, continue to run vast business empires and to travel freely because most nations are unaware of the sanctions and others do not enforce them, the investigators said. Several charities based in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan that were reportedly shut down by the governments there because of the groupsâ alleged financial ties to Osama bin Laden also continue to operate freely, they said. Thoseâd be members of the Golden Chain, the top 20 financiers who keep the cash flowing to the krazed killers. Consider it the financial arm of the Learned Elders of Islam.
As a result, al Qaeda continues to receive ample funding not only to carry out its own plots but also to finance affiliated terrorist groups and to seek new weapons, the investigators and terrorism experts said.
A report released this month by a U.N. panel of experts documented the continued flow of money -- including drug money -- to terrorist organizations and warned that al Qaeda "has already taken the decision to use chemical and biological weapons in their forthcoming attacks. The only constraint they are facing is the technical complexity to operate them properly and effectively" -- rather than a lack of means to acquire them. For all we know, they may have most of Sammyâs still-missing arsenal tucked away somewhere - waiting for the right time to use it ...
"We desperately need to revitalize our effort to choke off terrorist financing, because until we cut that off, we have not crippled al Qaedaâs ability to attack us," said one senior U.S. official who monitors terrorist finances. "We started out well, picked all the low-hanging fruit, and then, as we have squeezed, they have simply moved on to different methods."
A separate report released last week by the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, noted that U.S. law enforcement still has no clear idea of how terrorists move their money and that the FBI, which is the lead agency in tracking terrorist assets, still does not "systematically collect or analyze" such information. It concluded that the Justice and Treasury departments have fallen more than a year behind in developing plans to attack terrorist financial mechanisms, such as the use of diamonds and gold to hide assets. Liberia and Burkina Faso both helped out al-Qaeda in regards to obtaining both of the latter quantities.
Under the sanctions policy adopted by the United Nations immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, individuals designated by the world body as terrorists or terrorist supporters were to have their assets frozen and be banned from international travel.
So far, the world body has publicly named 272 people as sponsors of terrorism.
But U.N. and U.S. officials said they do not know where more than a handful of those people are, and only 83 of 191countries have submitted the required U.N. reports on attacking terrorist financing and implementing the travel ban. Only a third of those have given the list to their border guards. More UN incompetence ...
The investigators said some developing nations lack the resources to comply with the sanctions, while some wealthier countries do not know of the sanctions or are hampered by bureaucratic inertia. Yeah ... right.
U.S. officials said that about $138 million in terrorist assets have been frozen since the attacks, and that some steps have been taken to clamp down on charities and other known terrorist funding mechanisms. Officials noted the closure of three large Islamic charities in the United States and an ongoing investigation of a group of charities and organizations in Northern Virginia. Thatâd be the Safa Group weâve all heard so much about lately ...
But the officials acknowledged that al Qaeda, now more decentralized, needs less money to operate than it did when bin Laden was supporting training camps and propping up the Taliban government in Afghanistan. There are still camps running though (Russians reportedly shut down one at Serzhen-Yurt a little while ago), just less of them and in cases like the Philippines the affiliate groups seem to be picking up the tab.
The U.N. report said $75 million of the $138 million in frozen assets claimed by the United States belonged to al Qaeda or the Taliban. The Taliban money, which was a "substantial" portion, has been turned over to the new Afghan government.
Illustrating the ineffectiveness of the sanctions regime, U.S. and U.N. officials said, are the joint business empires of Yousef Nada and Idris Nasreddin, which sprawl across Europe and Africa and are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
Nada, an Egyptian national who lives in Switzerland, was designated a terrorist financier by the United Nations on Nov. 9, 2001, and was publicly accused by U.S. and U.N. officials of providing direct aid to al Qaeda. Nasreddin, an Eritrean who lives in Italy, was designated a terrorist supporter on April 24, 2002. At that time, the assets of more than a dozen of their joint enterprises were supposed to have been frozen, and a travel ban was imposed on the pair.
Both men have strongly denied any involvement in terrorist activities. Lies, all lies!
But U.S. officials and the U.N. report said that many of the pairâs businesses, including a luxury hotel in Milan, continue to operate and that both men violate the travel ban with impunity.
The U.N. panel found that on Jan. 28, Nada traveled from his home in Campione dâItalia, in Switzerland, to Vaduz, Liechtenstein, to change the names of two of the companies that were targets of the asset freeze. Looks like theyâre taking a page out of the Pakistani playbook ...
Despite his designated status, he traveled under his own name and even applied for and received a new passport shortly before leaving.
In Liechtenstein, Nada sought to liquidate both renamed companies and listed himself as the liquidator, a move that would have allowed him to pocket the proceeds. When U.N. officials discovered the move and protested, the liquidation was halted.
U.S. and U.N. officials said the lack of enforcement is especially acute in Europe and Saudi Arabia, and they expressed dismay that, 27 months after the terrorist attacks, many countries have done little to install a legal framework that would make the sanctions effective. Most lacking in Europe are laws that would allow the seizure or shutdown of shell companies, businesses and properties -- not just bank accounts -- if there is evidence linking them to terrorism.
Legal issues, including how to confiscate properties when one owner is a designated terrorist sponsor but others are not, present another obstacle, officials said.
"The question is, how do you go after real properties and not just bank accounts," said Juan C. Zarate, the Treasury Departmentâs deputy assistant secretary for terrorist finance. "These are men of resources, men of high finance who know how to reformulate their businesses and how to move money."
Several branches of the al Haramain Charitable Foundation, a Saudi Arabia-based organization that in the past raised as much as $30 million a year, remain active, they said. Several offices of the organization were directly implicated in the financing of al Qaeda, and in May the Saudi government announced that the charity had been required to suspend all activities outside Saudi Arabia.
"Al Haramain is still active in a number of countries and has just opened a new Islamic school in Jakarta, Indonesia," the U.N. report said.
The al Haramain office in Saudi Arabia did not respond to telephone calls, but in the past its leaders denied any links to terrorism.
U.S. officials said that shutting down al Haramain and ensuring that other suspected terrorist financiers are put out of business by Saudi Arabia is at the top of the two nationsâ agenda.
Similarly, the U.N. report noted that the al Rashid Trust, a designated Pakistani charity, "continues its operation in Pakistan under various names and partnerships . . . it has continued to be active in funding al Qaeda related activities as well as other social and humanitarian projects."
The investigators also expressed concern about the alleged activities of Wael Julaidan, a businessman who helped found al Qaeda and who was designated by the U.N. on Sept. 6, 2002, as a terrorist financier.
Until last year, Julaidan was the Saudi chairman of the Rabita Trust, a Pakistani charity also found by the United Nations to have funded al Qaeda activities. U.N. and U.S. officials said Julaidan continues to work in charities and to handle large sums of money.
A source with direct knowledge of U.S. actions said the "highest priority of the U.S. government is to get the Saudis to do what they said [they] would do and close down what they were supposed to close down." The source noted that, after agreeing to put him on the U.N. list, senior Saudi officials publicly denounced Julaidanâs designation.
"Then the Saudis said he was questioned but wouldnât tell us what he said," the source said. "They said his assets are frozen, but wonât say where. Itâs like Humphrey Bogart in âCasablanca.â They round him up when the pressure builds and are shocked to find anything going on."
A senior Saudi official disputed the U.S. and U.N. accounts of the ongoing activities of al Haramain and Julaidan.
"Julaidan is not operating," the official said. "His assets are frozen. Al Haramain cannot spend a penny outside Saudi Arabia. We are doing what we can."
He added: "If they think al Haramain is doing something in Indonesia, then it is up to the government of Indonesia to take action, not Saudi Arabia." Here again we can see one of the big failures of the Saudi crackdown that I noted over at Winds of Change awhile back - the failure or unwillingness to eliminate the moneymen for al-Qaeda. As long as they do that, the gunnies are going to keep coming.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/14/2003 12:13:00 AM ||
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So if we cannot freeze the accounts, then the prudent thing to do to would be to ice the owners or benefactors of the accounts. The gloves must come off if we are to win the WoT, and stopping the money stops the train. The Saudis, Paks, et all are too soft and corrupt to help.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/14/2003 13:37 Comments ||
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Palestinians in the West Bank reacted with shock and disbelief to the capture of ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, with many expressing deep disappointment that the man who symbolized defiance against the US and Israel surrendered without resistance. For many ordinary Palestinians, the TV footage of a disheveled Saddam obediently submitting to a medical exam by his U.S. captors was painful to watch: it sealed the defeat of the one Arab leader they felt always stood by them. No more dough for blowing yourself up? Say it isnât so!
Saddam should have put up a fight or committed suicide, they said, and his surrender is a stain on Arab honor. What honor?
"It is a big defeat for all Arabs and Muslims," said Raji Hassan, 29, watching TV with friends in a Gaza City coffee shop. Get used to it, we're not done yet.
The Palestinian Authority declined to comment on the arrest of Saddam, [BIG SUPRISE] but a senior PA official in Ramallah said Yasser ArafatCrapped his robe was "saddened" by the news from Baghdad. "President Arafat was sad to see an Arab leader in an normal humiliating position," said the official. For nearly two decades, Saddam was hailed by many Palestinians as the hero of the Arab masses and the only Arab leader foolish enough to stand up to the US and Israel. During the first Gulf War, Palestinians danced on the rooftops as Saddamâs army fired Scud missiles at Israel to put in free pools. Arafat was one of the few Arab leaders to visit Baghdad to express support for the invasion of Kuwait â move that resulted in the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from Kuwait and other Gulf countries. Hindsight is 20/20.
Arafatâs decision to side with Saddam also resulted in the near bankruptcy of the PLO after the oil-rich Gulf governments halted their financial support for the Palestinians. Saddam is said to have compensated the PLO by giving Arafat $50m. Which went directly into his swiss bank account.
In the past three years, Saddam was the only Arab leader to pay millions of Dollars to the families of Palestinian terrorists victims of the violence. Families of suicide bombers received up to $10,000, while those whose houses were destroyed by the IDF were given $20,000. The payments further boosted Saddamâs popularity among the Palestinians, FREE MONEY!
particularly at a time when Arafat was handing out smaller sums to his people. got change for a buck?
Earlier this year, Palestinians demonstrated in favor of Saddam when the US threatened to invade Iraq and topple his regime. At the rallies they chanted, "Oâ beloved Saddam, bomb Tel Aviv." We want a pool too! But this time Arafat and the Palestinian scumbags leadership were careful not to be seen speaking in favor of the Iraqi tyrant. Privately, however, senior PA officials said they supported Saddam in the face of the American "aggression." We never said that! you canât prove it!
The fall of Baghdad on April 9 was regarded by many Palestinians as typical a new "nakba" (catastrophe â a term used by Palestinians to describe the creation of Israel in 1948). We got are butt kicked again? Itâs a nakba!
The Palestinian media has supporting the "resistance" attacks against the US soldiers and drawing a parallel between these attacks and the Palestinian fight against Israel. Blowing yourself up is a good thing. In fact, you should go do it right now. take your family with you.
On the streets of Ramallah on Sunday, many Palestinians expressed sorrow and shock at the capture of Saddam. Jihan Ajlouni, a 24-year-old university student, said, "This is a big loss for the Arab nation. yep.
Saddam was one of the great Arab terrorist leaders who supported himself the Palestinian people and himself many Arabs. We feel very sad today, and we say to all the desperate and starving masses traitors and collaborators: Donât rush to celebrate because there are millions of Saddams in the Arab world." all willing to take what little you have to enrich themselves at your expense. Fathi Salman, 50, a taxi driver, described the arrest of Saddam as a bummer dude "black day" for the Palestinians. "This is a black day for all the Palestinians and all the Arabs and Muslims," backed Another loser he said. "I still canât believe that President Saddam has been captured by the Americans. Saddam was the only Arab leader who cared about us. He supported the Palestinian cause from the beginning. His arrest is a major setback for scumbags everwhere the Palestinians. Itâs a pity that he didnât fight." To busy hiding Khairiyeh Said, 43, a high-school teacher, said she wept when she watched Saddam in captivity. "I was sitting with my friends when we heard the good bad news," she added. "We all started crying because we love Saddam and we hate [US President George W.] Bush and [Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon. This is a big victory for Bush and Sharon and all the enemies of the Palestinian people. We hope the Iraqi resistance will now teach the American dogs a good lesson." Yea,whatever. Do the world a favor and go blow yourself up. take your family with you. Michael Hanna a 28-year-old engineer was one of the few Palestinians who said they were happy that Saddam was captured by the Americans. "Saddam is responsible for the killing of thousands of his own people and he deserves to die," he said. "I have no sympathy for him or other Arab dictators. I hope he will be put on trial and executed. This should be a lesson for other corrupt and tyrant Arab leaders. I hope the Iraqi people will now be able to live in peace because they have suffered for a long time under Saddam and his sons." Abdoul, this man knows the truth. he must be killed at once! Abdel Kader, one of the top Fatah leaders, said many Palestinian s were disappointed that Saddam did not try to defend himself. "It would have been better if he had been killed," he added. "At least he would have died like the dog he is in an honorable way. Itâs a happy sad ending for a dictator and I hope that this would be a lesson for all the other Arab dictators. This shows that all tyrants are cowards." YEP. Mohammed Horani, a legislator from Arafatâs ruling Fatah movement, said he had expected Saddam to be more courageous. Why?
"I had expected him to have fought back, or at least end his life," he said. "But then again, all dictators are cowards."
Not all of them, but the ones with more ego than ability seem to be...
During the past three years of Israeli-Palestinian fighting, Saddam sent millions of dollars to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, including US$25,000 for the family of each suicide bomber and US$10,000 for each Palestinian killed in fighting with Israelis. "I love him so much, I canât stand watching it while heâs in custody," Raafat Logman, 23, said as he was shooting pool. "We are surprised. We are so sad," said Sameh Aloul, 22.
The International Committee of the Red Cross Thingy, which monitors the Geneva conventions on international humanitarian law, stayed resolutely silent today on the capture of deposed Iraqi president Saddam Hussein.
AP's just waiting for them to kick in with how mistreated Sammy was, being checked for lice and cyanide pills on the teevee...
ICRC spokeswoman Annick Bouvier said the agency had no comment on whether it would regard him as a prisoner of war entitled to protection under the Geneva Conventions.
Nope. Not a prisoner of war. He's a fugitive head of state. Different category, so sorry!
"It is premature for us to react," Bouvier said. "We want to take our time to react." The U.S.-led authorities running Iraq have granted the Red Cross Thingy access to other captured members of Saddam's former regime, including those on the U.S. "most wanted list." The ICRC, which prides itself for its discretion, has never revealed details about the conditions of detention. It has also never publicly named any of the senior figures it has visited. Bouvier also would not be drawn on whether the U.S. authorities had violated the Geneva Conventions in transmitting video images of an unshaven Saddam being examined by a doctor shortly after his capture.
Har har har! Toldja so!
Article 13 of the 1949 conventions, which set basic standards in armed conflict, says that prisoners should be treated humanely and should "at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 15:01 ||
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I see that the Toronto Star is quite concerned that Sadaam, a mass murderer, not be a subject of public curiousity.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 16:09 Comments ||
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Jebus, this is from the Star?
...(grumble), should'a known.
Fred, stop pickin' on us ;) Even my bro', who's no great fan of the US, has been telling me how embarrassed he's been lately about the whining of Paul Martin and the rest of the asshats in our government.
I had the pleasure to be the first to tell two employees at the local shop about Saddam being bagged! Damn they were pleased! One of them - a college aged guy - mentioned that his roomie is Iraqi, so he knows how worth-it US action was.
I've got some Iraqi friends too. Let me tell you, I haven't got words for how happy they are!
"Praise the Lord. ... This is a day of glory for the American military, American intelligence, and it's a day of triumph and joy for anybody in the world who cares about freedom and human rights and peace." â Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn.
About what's expected. Joe's got at least one testicle, probably two...
"I supported this effort in Iraq without regard for the political consequences because it was the right thing to do. I still feel that way now and today is a major step toward stabilizing Iraq and building a new democracy." â Rep. Dick Gephardt, D-Mo.
Looks like a reptile, I usually disagree with him, but he also has a mind and a set of gonads...
"Capturing Saddam Hussein and ensuring that this brutal dictator will never return to power is an important step toward stabilizing Iraq for the Iraqis. Let's also be clear: Our problems in Iraq have not been caused by one man and this is a moment when the administration can and must launch a major effort to gain international support and win the peace." â Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass.
We did it, our troops, our resources, our determination. Somehow that means we need the United Nations.
"I hope this will see a diminishing in the violence against American soldiers in Iraq." â Retired Gen. Weasley Clark.
Ummm... So do we. What do you think about Sammy getting captured, though?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 14:44 ||
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Kerry, looking like a tired French grumpy old haughty man on Fox news Sunday:
"....the President prime responsibility is to minimize the risks to out troops" - WTF?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/14/2003 15:26 Comments ||
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"our troops"...D'oh!
out troops falls under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, IIRC :-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/14/2003 15:39 Comments ||
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Hey Geppy, How bout that miserable failure thingy?
#4
Lucky, Now you did it! "Miserable Failure" is a trademark of Dick Gephardt (So is 'Humiliation'). Expect to see the Lawyers at any moment.
The violence is not just aginst the American soldiers but against the Iraqi people too Wheasle!
We did not need 'international support' to catch him. The Iraqi's won't need 'international Support' to try him. And we need 'international support' to win the peace like we need a hole in the head.
Iran's Vice President Mohammed Ali Abtahi expressed satisfaction Sunday over the capture of Saddam Hussein, whom he described as a "criminal" who committed many crimes against the Iranians. "I am happy they have arrested a criminal, whoever it may be, and I am even more happy because it is a criminal who committed so many crimes against Iranians," Abtahi told reporters in the first official Iranian reaction to the arrest. "The arrest of Saddam Hussein could reinforce stability in Iraq because it will weaken the morale of his supporters." Although Iran, which fought a bitter 1980-1988 war against Saddam's Iraq, constantly opposed the US-led assault on Iraq, it rejoiced at the Iraqi leader's ouster in April. The Islamic Republic blames Saddam for hundreds of thousands of Iranians killed in the eight-year war, and says it was subjected to Iraqi chemical attacks.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 13:31 ||
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I wonder if we can trade a piece of Sadaam for some AQ fugitives.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/14/2003 16:12 Comments ||
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EFL
Disbelief and gloom seized many Palestinians Sunday at news of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)âs capture... The former Iraqi ruler was a hero to many Palestinians for his stand against Israel and its U.S. ally, as well as for helping families of Palestinians dead - that would be families of suicide bombers
in an uprising. "Itâs a black day in history,"
(shouldnât the NAACP be suing them on the perjorative use of the word black)
said Sadiq Husam, 33, a taxi driver in Ramallah, West Bank... There was no immediate reaction from Palestinian President Yasser Arafat. Saddam paid over $35 million to the kin of Palestinian suicide bombers... militants marched to back Saddam
(along with appeasement activists in Europe, Berkeley professors, CNN, AP, CBS, NBC and ABC)
ahead of the U.S.-led invasion in March. Some did not believe news of Saddamâs capture even when images of the bearded figure flashed across television screens. "Maybe they captured someone who looks like him," said Laila Abusharigh, 55.... "Saddam is a real man and all of us are with him." Fifteen youngsters from Arafatâs Fatah movement tagged onto a rally in Gaza for the Islamic group Hamas, holding up posters of Saddam. Islamic factions sworn to Israelâs destruction have taken strength from Iraqi resistance and cautioned Sunday that Saddamâs capture would not end attacks on U.S. forces. "The war will start now in Iraq )," said 16-year-old Yusef Khalil in Gaza. "Saddam helped our people and we will not forget him."
"There was a great weeping and gnashing of teeth, and they cut themselves with knives until they were covered with blood."
May not be a word for word quotation — it's from memory.
#2
"The war will start now in Iraq )," said 16-year-old Yusef Khalil in Gaza. "Saddam helped our people and we will not forget him."
Hey, great! I'm sure it'll be therapeutic to dust off some Palestinian terrorists. Get your ass on over to Iraq Yusef, and prepare to become an unremembered "martyr".
#3
Yusef, Yusef,
May Allah grant your death wish quickly - the money Saddam sent you bastards was pried from the
mouths of hungry Iraqi orphans.
May you dream every night of being fed feet first into one of your hero's industrial shredders, only to wake up and find its not a dream.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
12/14/2003 16:19 Comments ||
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Ahh poor Yusef,he whent to Iraq.You know that place the Americans have set-up The Black Hole of Oblivion.
We will never see or hear from him agin(snifff).
Hat tip to Tim Blair...
Hundreds of Arab and international activists are expected to flock in Cairo on Saturday, December 13, for a two-day popular conference on U.S. hegemony and the foreign occupation of Iraq and Palestine.
Oh, good. They're in Cairo for Sammy's capture...
The conference, to be held under the slogan: "Yes to resistance in Palestine and Iraq. No to capitalist globalization and U.S. hegemony", is to witness several workshops and sessions.
Ahhh... More organized incoherence...
"Many international and Arab activists from different political parties and affiliations have sent papers that will be discussed during the conferenceâs sessions and workshops," Abdel-Aziz Al-Husseini, one of the organizers, told IslamOnline.net. Among the prominent participants are veteran British politician Tony Benn, British MP Jeremy Corbyn, head of the Focus on the Global South CenterWalden Bello. Staunch anti-war opponents British lawmaker George Galloway and British activist John Rees, are to turn up for the event, organized by the usual suspectsinternational campaign against U.S. and Zionist Occupations (ICAUZO). Also, delegates from several foreign countries including the U.S., Britain, Italy, Spain, Korea, Japan and the Philippines are to join colleagues from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lebanon, Bahrain, Yemen, Palestine and Iraq, said the organizers.
So, I wonder what they're talking about at this very moment?
Unlike the first Cairo conference which was held in December 2002 in the run up to the U.S.-British invasion of Iraq, organizers and participants are keen on having as much independent and popular gathering as possible. "We want to keep ourselves away from businessmen funds and the five star hotels," Wail Khalil, another organizer, told IOL.
Cash getting a little tight, is it?
"People should exchange their experiences and to feel of each others. We want it âpeople to people conference,â " he added with a clear enthusiastic tone.
"That's because the last time we had some big bucks coming in, this year some of us even had to pay our own way!"
Most of the participants will be covering the costs of their travel and accommodation, organizers said, adding that volunteers in Cairo reiterated readiness to host some of the guests.
Toldja so!
Many observers fear that this conference could not turn away last yearâs â which had been characterized with much inflammatory speeches and less action â especially that the occupation of Iraq is now a fait accompli and Israeli aggressions against the Palestinians continue unabated.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
12/14/2003 11:41 ||
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Fred---Organized Incoherence. That one gets a trade mark, for sure!
There is only so much smoke one can blow out one's ass until one runs out of smoke. If enough of these OI conferences run out of smoke, people just might start seeing them for what they are. But I am just a silly optimist....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/14/2003 12:50 Comments ||
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If we could harness the wailing and teeth-gnashing going on in Cairo at the moment and convert it to electricity, the Earth would be energy self-sufficient for the next decade. Now what are they going to do? Poor widdle spittle-spewers just got kicked where it hurts. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving group of whatevers.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/14/2003 12:51 Comments ||
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I forget, did these people complain when saddam took kuwait?
Looting and killing has become a way of life around Junaynah, capital of Sudanâs strife-torn western Darfur province. Local leaders say the attacks are being carried out by Arab militias who conduct their almost daily raids "with total impunity".
Ethnic cleansing, anyone?
"I believe this is an elimination of the black race," one tribal leader told IRIN.
It doesn't happen without the government saying, "Yeah, that's a good idea."
He said that since Saturday alone, an estimated 9,000 people had become displaced in attacks on 15 villages located between 20 and 40 km from the town. Sixteen injured men were brought to Junaynah hospital on Tuesday night, and 10 on Monday, all with gunshot wounds. The hospital receives five or six casualties with gunshot wounds daily. Highly visible around the town, the horse-backed Arab nomads - Janjaweed militias or Peshmerga as they are known in western Darfur - were unusually absent on Wednesday. Local sources said an attack from the Justice and Equality Movement (JEM) rebel group was imminent, and there was a highly visible military presence.
JEM's going to attack, so the "militias" go to ground and the soldier boyz show up to fight them off with heavy weapons. The "militias" are better at bumping off civilians.
Corroborating sources have accused the government of backing the militias, charges it piously denies.
How many of them has it wiped out?
Dr Sula Feldeen, the national humanitarian aid commissioner, told IRIN all of Sudanâs tribes had been asked to defend themselves against the rebels, not just Arabs. "No tribe was excluded," he said. "Some are coming forward and some are not. This does not mean that the government is biased against one group." In a report on Thursday, the International Crisis Group (ICG) think tank said the conflict started when the JEM and another rebel group, the Sudan Liberation Movement/Army (SLM/A), launched their first attacks on government garrisons in the region in February 2003. "In response to those actions, the government of Sudan has mobilised and armed Arab militias (Janjaweed), whose salary comes directly from booty captured in raids on villages, to terrorise the populace of Darfur," the ICG said. It added that the Janjaweed had stepped up activities in the past three months against the Fur, Zaghawa, and Massalit groups, who are collectively accused of supporting the rebellion. "The fact is the government is arming some tribes, just Arabs, they go and kill, take the belongings and rape the women," local sources in Junaynah told IRIN. "The militias have been given access to good arms, they are better than the armyâs."
Builds plausible deniability, doesn't it?
Concern is mounting in western Darfur over looming food shortages, as the nomadsâ camels roam across local farms destroying crops. "Now they are fighting with bullets, but the time will come when starvation will set in," said one local leader. Those who try to defend their farms with guns come under attack, and are sometimes arrested by the local authorities. Local farmers are unable to leave their homes to harvest or to go to local villages to trade for fear of being shot. Commercial traffic in western Darfur has all but stopped, and food prices have increased dramatically from 1,800 Sudanese dinar to 7,000 for a bag of millet. Wood and charcoal prices have also gone up, while livestock are decreasing in value as people desperately try to sell their animals before they are looted. "The visible agenda is to fight the rebels, the invisible agenda is to get rich by looting and expand their tribal grazing areas," said a local source.
Lesser races are wealth producers, Arabs are wealth consumers.
Meanwhile, local efforts to begin a peace initiative have been put on hold. A meeting in Junaynah which planned to bring together leaders of 20 tribes - Arab and black African - was reportedly cancelled last week by the local authorities.
Cancelled for lack of interest?
Elsewhere in Darfur, humanitarian sources told IRIN that NGOs and UN agencies had been prevented from travelling to needy government and rebel-held areas in the north. UN officials and aid agencies were assured on Friday by local authorities that northern Darfur was calm and safe and that access would be granted. But five days later agencies were still awaiting travel permits to areas, including several held by the government. "The problem is in areas controlled by the SLM," explained deputy governor El Nour Mohammed Ibrahim. "Our experience has made us hesitant to send relief to areas under the SLM because of kidnapping and attacks on trucks."
By whom? He didn't say.
In its report, the ICG warned the international community not to focus solely on the regional peace process, mediated by the Inter-Governmental Authority on Development (IGAD) between the government and Sudan Peopleâs Liberation Movement/Army (SPLA/M). "The international community has thus far failed to respond appropriately to these developments, in part because the attention of the world remains focused squarely on the IGAD peace process," said the ICGâs John Prendergast.
They've got the peace processor set on "puree."
"The government of Sudan is being feted by the international community for its transition to peacemaker through the IGAD process, while it continues to carry out a bloody campaign by proxy against the people of Darfur," he added. "The end of one tragic civil war in Sudan should not be allowed to be a catalyst for a new one".
I doubt if the other civil war will quite end, either. Still too many black fellahs running around.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/14/2003 12:26:37 AM ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
In Tikrit apparently.
