Hi there, !
Today Sat 07/16/2005 Fri 07/15/2005 Thu 07/14/2005 Wed 07/13/2005 Tue 07/12/2005 Mon 07/11/2005 Sun 07/10/2005 Archives
Rantburg
531695 articles and 1855968 comments are archived on Rantburg.

Today: 102 articles and 615 comments as of 13:04.
Post a news link    Post your own article   
Area: WoT Background    Non-WoT    Opinion           
Italy police detain 174 people in anti-terror sweep
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 1: WoT Operations
8 00:00 GhostOfBonzo [] 
0 [] 
0 [] 
1 00:00 Tkat [] 
0 [] 
3 00:00 Kalle (kafir forever) [] 
2 00:00 Robert Crawford [] 
0 [] 
3 00:00 Bomb-a-rama [] 
2 00:00 mmurray821 [] 
15 00:00 PlanetDan [] 
1 00:00 Super Hose [] 
25 00:00 rjschwarz [] 
4 00:00 Super Hose [] 
5 00:00 True German Ally [] 
14 00:00 Super Hose [] 
5 00:00 Jackal [] 
16 00:00 Super Hose [] 
8 00:00 trailing wife [] 
27 00:00 tipper [] 
2 00:00 too true [] 
10 00:00 Jackal [] 
1 00:00 Hupomoque Spoluter7949 [] 
6 00:00 Omosing Ching6582 [] 
14 00:00 Yosemite Sam [] 
4 00:00 john [] 
0 [] 
0 [1] 
1 00:00 Super Hose [] 
8 00:00 Cyber Sarge [] 
55 00:00 Asedwich [] 
0 [] 
6 00:00 Pappy [] 
1 00:00 Gleans Unalet1788 [] 
2 00:00 Captain America [] 
Page 2: WoT Background
0 []
5 00:00 Kalle (kafir forever) []
1 00:00 Sock Puppet 0’ Doom []
0 []
2 00:00 Willie []
0 []
6 00:00 Captain America []
1 00:00 growler []
11 00:00 Eric Jablow []
0 []
0 []
5 00:00 Robert Crawford []
16 00:00 trailing wife []
0 []
1 00:00 .com []
0 []
0 []
2 00:00 mmurray821 []
16 00:00 Jarhead []
4 00:00 Eric Jablow [1]
1 00:00 Super Hose []
0 []
4 00:00 eLarson []
22 00:00 Brett []
8 00:00 rjschwarz []
6 00:00 remoteman []
4 00:00 borgboy []
7 00:00 Shipman []
29 00:00 john []
1 00:00 O Redenbocker []
4 00:00 Spavirt Pheng6042 []
3 00:00 JFM []
5 00:00 O Redenbocker []
7 00:00 liberalhawk []
0 []
1 00:00 bigjim-ky []
4 00:00 john []
Page 3: Non-WoT
4 00:00 Barbara Skolaut []
7 00:00 rjschwarz []
7 00:00 badanov []
2 00:00 Aussie []
11 00:00 Jarhead [1]
6 00:00 GK []
3 00:00 tu3031 []
0 []
9 00:00 Super Hose []
2 00:00 Super Hose []
10 00:00 Chuck Simmins []
0 []
7 00:00 Asedwich []
14 00:00 Sgt. Mom []
0 []
2 00:00 Bobby []
13 00:00 tipper []
8 00:00 BA []
19 00:00 Secret Master []
5 00:00 Frank G []
3 00:00 tu3031 []
7 00:00 Matt []
2 00:00 Barbara Skolaut []
3 00:00 Steve []
Page 4: Opinion
0 []
4 00:00 CAIR []
0 []
16 00:00 Super Hose []
6 00:00 Phil Fraering []
20 00:00 Super Hose []
Britain
London: The Pakistani Connection
Those paying attention to Britain's Jamaati culture shouldn't be surprised by London's home-grown terrorists... According to the authoritative Muslim Council of Britain, the British Islamic population, totaling 1.5 million, has a plurality of 610,000 Pakistanis, with an additional 360,000 from Bangladesh and India, and 350,000 Arab and African.
The 1991 population of the UK was 59, 755,700...
Unfortunately, Pakistan is the world's second most significant front-line state (after Iraq) in the global war on terror. Pakistan produced the Jamaat-e-Islami (Community of Islam) movement, founded by Abul Ala Mawdudi, a theologian who died in 1979, strangely enough, in Buffalo, New York, at age 76. Known as Jamaatis, the followers of Mawdudi have attained exceptional influence in the Pakistani army and intelligence services, and were a key element in the Pakistani-Saudi alliance to support the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.
No surprise to anyone here, I'd guess. We've been following Qazi and Fazl and Sami from day one...
Western academics and journalists are often at pains to distinguish between the Jamaatis and Wahhabism, which is the state religion in Saudi Arabia. But differences in theological details, although they do exist, are secondary; mainly, the Saudi Wahhabis hold to a deceptive alliance with the Western powers, while the Jamaatis were always frontally anti-Western.
The key word there is "deceptive." We're at war with the Wahhabis, and they started the war 30 years ago, but the Paks — Deobandis, Brelvis, the whole lot of them, are closely allied with them...
The Jamaatis study in Saudi Arabia and share with the Wahhabis a murderous hatred of Muslims who do not conform to their ideology, considering those who reject their teachings to be apostates from Islam. They regularly massacre Shia Muslims, in particular, in Pakistani cities. They also completely reject participation by Muslim immigrants in the political and social institutions of Western countries in which they live, and they consider suicide terror legitimate. Pakistan has very few energy resources, and the Saudis have used cheap oil to support Wahhabi infiltration. In the system of radical Islam, if Saudi Arabia may be compared with the former Soviet state, Pakistan could be a parallel to the former East Germany.
I'd compare it to the entire Warsaw Pact. Or maybe Kim Il Sung's Korea to Mao's China...
For these reasons, the identification of four British-born Muslims of Pakistani origin as the perpetrators of the London atrocity comes as no surprise to those who have been paying attention to these matters.
Could have gone either way. The North Africans have been more purposeful in their infiltration...
The seething, ferocious rhetoric heard in Pakistani Sunni mosques, at Friday services every week in outlying cities such as Leeds, is far more insidious, as the London events may show, than the antics engaged in by Arab loudmouths like the Syrian Omar Bakri Muhammad, the hook-handed Egyptian Abu Hamza al-Masri, or the bogus Saudi dissident Saad al-Faqih, all of who mainly perform for non-Muslim media attention.
Except that among their acolytes are many, many Paks. The Paks have an irrational worship of the Arabs, to the point where Qazi learned to drink camel whiz when he was there.
Social marginalization and underemployment of second generation ethnic Pakistani youth in Britain may be cited as a cause for the extremist appeal among them; but the constant drumming of the Jamaati message from the pulpit is much more significant. It is interesting to hear first-generation Pakistani Sunnis in Britain claim shock and surprise at the presence of terrorists among them. Pakistani Islamist radicalism dominates British Islam much as the "Wahhabi Lobby" in America monopolizes the voice of the Muslim community on our shores.
Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 16:43 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Oops, should be page 2
Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 17:23 Comments || Top||

#2  And its already there
Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 17:31 Comments || Top||

#3  Qazi learned to drink camel whiz when he was there.

For real, Fred? Ick. I guess we know what he uses his mouth for.
Posted by: trailing wife || 07/13/2005 20:14 Comments || Top||

#4  LGF had the interview here. After three years he came down with kidney stones...
Posted by: Fred || 07/13/2005 22:12 Comments || Top||

#5  So much for the franchise rights. Better stick to ocelot digested coffee beans.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 22:49 Comments || Top||

#6  camel whiz™? WTF??
Posted by: Frank G || 07/13/2005 22:54 Comments || Top||

#7  Sheesh what do the Brits expect? They allow those freaking hate-preachers to do anything they want.

Cut a few tongues out and send them back to Pakistan.
Posted by: anymouse || 07/13/2005 23:00 Comments || Top||

#8  I don't think the paki's on UK soil be they first or second generation are, at all suprised though they might seem to be expressing "suprise" when expedient. Read the Guardian's 7/13/05 opinion columns, particularly the one from the journalist trainee with a non-traditional english name (then google the name and read a little more to understand what the lad means, actually). No suprise there. It speaks volumes in what is said, but even moreso in what is not. What do you make of the charming author?
Posted by: GhostOfBonzo || 07/13/2005 23:28 Comments || Top||


Brits examining evidence seized in London raids
Police hunting for clues Wednesday in the investigation of the London suicide bombings examined material seized from homes in Muslim neighborhoods where three of the four suspects lived.

The British Broadcasting Corp., citing unidentified sources, reported that a fifth suspect was being sought. Police refused to comment.

Computer files were among the potential evidence taken Tuesday from the homes when police raided six buildings in the inquiry into what were believed to be the first suicide bombings in Western Europe. They arrested a man who was identified by the British news agency Press Association as a relative of one of the suspected bombers.

At least three Britons of Pakistani descent are suspected of carrying out the July 7 attacks that killed 52 and injured 700. Surveillance cameras captured the men as they arrived in the capital 20 minutes before the explosions began.

News reports have identified three of the four as Shahzad Tanweer, a 22-year-old cricket-loving sports science graduate; Hasib Hussain, 19; and Mohammed Sidique Khan, the 30-year-old father of an 8-month-old baby. Press Association, citing police sources, said police had identified the fourth suspect, but no name was reported.

A U.S. government official confirmed that those men are believed to have been three of the bombers. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because British investigators have not publicly released the identities of the suspected attackers.

President Bush has said U.S. intelligence agencies are checking the names of the men for any American connection.

Investigators will now have to determine whether the men acted alone or had help in planning the bombings.

Tanweer's uncle, Bashir Ahmed, said his nephew went to Pakistan for two months earlier this year to study religion, and the family believed he was attending ``some religious function'' on the day of the bombings.

``It was total shock. I mean, it's unbelievable,'' Ahmed told reporters.

``Our lives have been shattered. It's impossible to describe it. We have had a very pleasant time here. I don't think we can continue here.''

Neighbors in Leeds' rows of Victorian-era red brick houses were apprehensive and hostile, walking quickly past reporters gathered at the cordons. One warehouse worker, who would only give his first name, Saj, said Tanweer was a ``good lad'' and athlete.

``He was quiet,'' he said. ``He was religious. He went to every mosque here. There are loads of mosques here.''

Prime Minister Tony Blair met with British Muslim lawmakers in London and pledged to open dialogue to tackle a ``perverted and poisonous misinterpretation'' of Islam. He also said his government would begin consultations on new anti-terrorism legislation.

Addressing the House of Commons, Blair also said the government would look at how to strengthen the process for excluding from the United Kingdom those who incite hatred and make it easier to deport such people.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke told the BBC that the Muslim community must ``stand out'' against any ideology that promotes violence and bombings.

``I think that is the clarion call to us, to us as politicians, as broadcasters, to faith leaders, to lawyers, to everybody, to say we have to fight for this society we have, rather than just coasting along and assuming it's all OK,'' he said.

``That means standing out against, in a very strong way, anybody who preaches the kind of fundamentalism, as I say, that can lead four young men to blow themselves and others up on the Tube on a Thursday morning.''

Press Association said the men drove a rental car to Luton, 30 miles north of London, and then boarded a commuter train to London's King's Cross station. Police closed Luton's train station Tuesday and carried out nine controlled explosions on a parked car, which the BBC reported contained explosives.

Closed-circuit TV video showed all four men arriving at King's Cross by 8:30 a.m. on July 7, about 20 minutes before the blasts began, said Peter Clarke, head of the Metropolitan Police anti-terrorist branch.

Two militant Islamic groups have claimed responsibility for the bombings.

Peter Clarke said ``strong forensic and other evidence'' suggests one of the suspects was killed in a subway bombing, and property belonging to the three others was found at the sites of the other blasts.

``The investigation quite early led us to have concerns about the movements and activities of four men, three of whom came from the West Yorkshire area,'' he said. The West Yorkshire region includes Leeds.

Acting on six warrants, British soldiers blasted their way into an unoccupied Leeds row house. Streets were cordoned off and about 500 people were evacuated. Hours earlier, police searched five homes elsewhere in the city. Police still were not letting the evacuees return to their homes Wednesday.

Mohammed Iqbal, a town councilor who represents the City-on-Hunslet section of Leeds, told The Associated Press that all of the homes raided belong to ``British citizens of Pakistani origin.''

``This is not good for Muslims,'' Iqbal said. ``We have businesses here. There will be a backlash.''

Several officials, including Foreign Minister Jack Straw, have said the attacks bore the ``hallmark'' of al-Qaida.

Jeremy Shapiro, director of research at the Center on the United States and Europe at the Brookings Institution, said Europeans had been involved in suicide attacks in the Middle East, but he knew of no previous suicide bombings in Western Europe.

Peter Clarke said police had strong evidence that the man believed to have carried a bomb onto the subway train that exploded between the Aldgate and Liverpool Street stations died in the blast, and they were awaiting confirmation from the coroner.

One of the suspects - identified in press reports as Hussain - had been reported missing by his family at 10 p.m. on July 7, and some of his property was found on the double-decker bus in which 13 died.

``We have now been able to establish that he was joined on his journey to London by three other men,'' Peter Clarke said.

Investigators also found personal documents bearing the names of two of the other men near seats on the trains that exploded near the Aldgate and Edgware stations. Police did not identify the men.

Leeds, about 185 miles north of London, has a population of about 715,000. About 15 percent of residents are Muslim, and many come from a tight-knit Pakistani community, mostly from Mirpur, south of Islamabad in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir. Other pockets of the community are mostly Arab.

Khalid Muneer, 28, a spokesman for the Hyde Park Mosque in Leeds, said the community was surprised by the events.

``That connection would surprise us all, even shock the whole community,'' he told AP, adding that Muslims in the area were not opposed to Britain. ``I've seen no calls in this area for jihad against British or American forces.''

Forensics experts have said it could take weeks to identify the bodies, many of which were blown apart and would have to be identified through dental records or DNA analysis. Investigators say 11 bodies have been identified.

The waiting seems interminable for families of the victims.

``The police just won't tell us anything,'' said Elzbieta Suchocka, whose 23-year-old daughter, Monika, moved from the Polish farming town of Dabrowka Malborska to London to become an accountant.

Suchocka's daughter was believed to be aboard the bus that was torn apart at Tavistock Square. British police arrived Wednesday to retrieve Suchocka's dental records, said her brother, Marcin.

``For me, this is extremely difficult also, but they need this evidence to identify a person,'' he told the AP. ``We must have hope.''
Posted by: Dan Darling || 07/13/2005 16:35 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "That connection would surprise us all, even shock the whole community">/em>

amazing.

so it would "shock" them to know that such an act was the work of muslims?

when will the "moderate" muslims wake up? what will it take for them to realize that THEY are the problem?
Posted by: PlanetDan || 07/13/2005 16:57 Comments || Top||

#2  Never. The blame game will not allow it, period, not to mention a coupla dozen other reasons why they are never at fault for anything, ever.

Y'know, this is a wank walk. All of this talk about what to do and how to approach them or threaten or psych 'em out - blah3 - pfeh. Wasted bandwidth. Ain't never gonna happen. Many people with cherished touchy-feely opinions will someday be left standing there with their dicks in their hands wondering what the fuck happened, where'd all the Muzzies go? Just when the wankerific patter was sounding so polished, too.

Sorry. Not in this incarnation. Fug 'em.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 17:05 Comments || Top||

#3  Tanweer's uncle, Bashir Ahmed, said his nephew went to Pakistan for two months earlier this year to study religion, and the family believed he was attending "some religious function'' on the day of the bombings.

Studying Islamic religion means studying taqiya (deceive non-believers), jihad (kill non-believers), and sharia (oppress all of mankind).

Dying after or while murdering the enemy is an Islamic "religious function" -- leading to the status of respectively a fedayeen or shahid with well-publicized rewards in heaven.

The time has come for the British to wake up. The enemy is already on your land.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 20:22 Comments || Top||


Al-Qaeda support network behind London attacks
Suicide attacks on London showed a level of calculation and technical know-how that strongly suggests a mastermind and support network behind the four young British bombers, security experts said on Wednesday.

Police suspect four young men of Pakistani origin carried the bombs that exploded last Thursday aboard three underground trains and a bus, killing at least 52 people including themselves.

"I would be surprised if this was something that was generated in someone's flat outside of London in a small Pakistani community," said former CIA official Nick Pratt, a terrorism expert at the Marshall European Center for Security Studies in Germany.

"To be able to pull something like this off, to get a hold of the explosives, it strikes me as implausible that it would be just four singletons working by themselves."

Police have said the bombs were made with high explosives and a French official in touch with the investigation said these were of military origin. Investigators discovered more explosives in raids on Tuesday.

Three of the bombs exploded within 50 seconds of each other at 8:50 a.m. last Thursday on underground trains heading south, east and west from King's Cross station, where the four suspects were captured on security cameras just before 8:30.

Security experts said whoever planned the operation had clearly calculated the power of the blasts would be magnified in narrow underground tunnels where there was no outlet for the massive energy released to dissipate.

The fourth went off almost an hour later on a bus, an anomaly which remains unexplained.

"Clearly there will be people behind this group and involved in this and clearly we are seeking those people," a police spokesman said. "The assumption has got to be they weren't acting alone."

Pratt said the modus operandi of al Qaeda-type groups typically involved planning and logistics operatives in the background.

"The way I have seen these cells work, you have a logistics cell, you've got someone who deals with transportation, you've got a security cell ... The one thing that gets uncovered is the actual operator cell, the guys that pull the bombing off."

The attacks bore similarities to suspected al Qaeda bombings that killed 191 people on four rush-hour commuter trains in the Spanish capital Madrid last year, although those were not suicide blasts.

Seven prime suspects in those attacks blew themselves up when cornered by police three weeks later.

Spanish officials have not conclusively established who ultimately sponsored or masterminded the bombings although they suspect the possible involvement of two men, Syrian Mustafa Setmariam and Moroccan Amer Azizi, who have been linked with a string of previous attacks.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 07/13/2005 16:27 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Some questions from a hearing-impaired kaffir.
Unfortunately I was abducted by space aliens in July,2001 and just got re-deposited on planet earth this afternoon. Been listening to the radio and am wondering if I have all this right:

The world is being terrorized by some guy named "U-see-I'm-a-Blood-thirsty-lunatic", who has a sidekick named, "I'm-the-main-swine-can't-you-hear-me"? These two are strict adherents of religious document called "Create-an-anus"? The pair have banded together to form an organization called "All-the-quivering-dildos" and the members refer to themselves as "misfit-jerks-in-drag"? These boys then get their kicks "Gobblin' Hogs"? Do I have all this right or is my hearing problem getting the better of me?
Posted by: DeafKaffir || 07/13/2005 16:50 Comments || Top||

#2  Other than the death of Yazzer Imarat, that's about right.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 18:04 Comments || Top||


Police in UK swoops on South Asians after London Blasts
Posted by: robi || 07/13/2005 13:31 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Pakistanis

Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 15:01 Comments || Top||

#2  Just noticed the Pakistani flag in the flowers.
Bit like adding salt to the wound.

Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 15:13 Comments || Top||

#3  SWOOP! They it is...
Posted by: mojo || 07/13/2005 15:48 Comments || Top||

#4  That's the symbol of Islam. A signature and slap in the face.

What would Londoners have done during the Blitz if someone had left a Nazi flag at the site of a bombing?

On the other hand the tone of that Paki article is interesting. They try to make it look like there is a massive backlash in Western countries. BUT THERE ISN'T. How will they react when Mecca is nuked?
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 16:07 Comments || Top||

#5  It also looks like Arafat's shawl is in the background. Here is the picture

Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 16:09 Comments || Top||

#6  "What would Londoners have done during the Blitz if someone had left a Nazi flag at the site of a bombing?"

during the blitz London was bombed by the German military. Do you have evidence that the Pakistani miltary was involved in the 7/7 atrocity?

Though it would of course be more appropriate to put in a UK flag.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 07/13/2005 16:16 Comments || Top||

#7  The Pak military runs the terrorist training camps.

Jihad is an instrument of state policy for the Pak army (which predates and is superior to the state itself). The very motto of the Pak army: "Jihad and Piety in the name of Allah" is instructive.

The madrasssas were encouraged in a deliberate policy to recruit foot soldiers for jihad.

Funding via narco trafficking was ISI approved.

The US cruise missile strike on the terror camp where Osama had been located missed him by a few hours but killed many Pak military trainers.

Recall the infamous Kunduz airlift?
The US opened a safe corridor from Afghan to Pak to allow ISI to extricate their officers. lots of Al Qaeda also left on those planes.
Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 16:29 Comments || Top||

#8  At least two of the bombers trained in Pakistan.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 16:35 Comments || Top||

#9  I wonder how much "training" is needed to set off a bomb in a crowded subway? My guess is they spent a lot of time being brain washed by some mullahs.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 07/13/2005 16:52 Comments || Top||

#10  The bomb maker was certainly trained in his craft.
Military grade explosives were used.

Most of these jihadis receive small arms training.

And indoctrination is an essential feature of these camps. One bomber left his 8 month old baby and wife to commit the deed. The CCTV cameras show the men laughing.

I would not be surprised if the funding was from Pak.
After all, ISI Chief General Mahmoud Ahmad wired $100 000 to lead 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta.
Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 17:00 Comments || Top||

#11  A letter to Tony Blair
By BRIG. (RETD) M. SHAFI KHAN
Pakistan Army

Please recollect 9/11: there were teams on spot to take precision guaranteed photos of final crash of aircraft into the towers. Jews were absent from work on that day. How the aviation facilities on American soil were employed to create the tragedy and there was no scramble of strategic air-command and last minute coordination of attackers and facilities – “the world will never be the same”, the ghosts of Osama bin Ladin is still haunting. Who did it?

Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 19:24 Comments || Top||

#12  I am waiting for the BBC to decide to label these homegrown "bombers" as insurgents.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 19:58 Comments || Top||

#13  What is that Paki newspaper? The Nation has a special position in Pakistan's media, as the most respected publication in English... the market leader in the Punjab and Islamabad areas, and has established a strong presence in Karachi since its inception there in 2000. It is the newspaper of choice for not only those who make decisions, formulate policy or are opinion leaders but also for those youngsters who will call the shots in the future.

And they proclaim that 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy, Bush and Sharon are the arch-terrorists, and Blair should stay away from them.

If I were Tony Blair, I'd ask Pakistan to explain what looks like a letter of support for attacks against the Coalition of the Liberators.

Immediately after the bombings in London perpetrated by Moslems who trained in Pakistan, such a letter ought to be construed as a declaration of war.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 20:00 Comments || Top||

#14  After 9/11 it was yet another Pak General - former ISI chief Hamid Gul who originated the theory of a mossad jionist conspiracy.

Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 20:08 Comments || Top||

#15  Please recollect 9/11: there were teams on spot to take precision guaranteed photos of final crash of aircraft into the towers. Jews were absent from work on that day. How the aviation facilities on American soil were employed to create the tragedy and there was no scramble of strategic air-command and last minute coordination of attackers and facilities – “the world will never be the same”, the ghosts of Osama bin Ladin is still haunting. Who did it?.

Another example of muslim deflection and rationalization of why muslim terror is understandable.

Despite the fact that these are outright internet myths, disproved every which way from sunday, muslims would rather believe them than do even a small amount of soul searching.

Nowhere do we see the "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!" crowd in the muslim world. Nowhere do we see the internal debate and discourse, the arguments, the exchange of ideas, the challenging of assumptions, and ultimately th shedding of light that pervades the worlds great religions.

Instead, they are sheep who follow their imams. If they don't, they are castigated or worse, considered an apostate. The penalty of which, theoretically, is death.

Blame Jews.

Point fingers.

Assume the victim status.

Call for understanding the "root causes" of islamic terror (by that they mean the "oppression experienced by islamic terrorists, like the "british" guys from Leeds!)

Explain why such acts are "unislamic" (even though they are performed in the name of islam and literally MILLIONS of muslims feel pride when they are successful)


Do anything. Except realize that islam is the cause of this crap.
Posted by: PlanetDan || 07/13/2005 22:28 Comments || Top||


U.K. Kids Beat Muslim to Death...
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 07/13/2005 14:20 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  A little bit of the ol' ultraviolence.
Posted by: eLarson || 07/13/2005 14:39 Comments || Top||

#2  I have no sympathy for the dead Muslim. See my Rantburg comment under "Hate Speech Laws Don't Cover Koran" regarding distinguishing between "good" Muslims and "scum-fuck terrorist" Muslms.

Besides, what do you expect when your government won't execute it's primary responsibility to protect it's own citizens... (can you say Minuteman Project).
Posted by: Hyper || 07/13/2005 14:43 Comments || Top||

#3  Sounds like regular YOB activity, unfortunately.
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 07/13/2005 14:44 Comments || Top||

#4  Headline directly contradicts the police:
"Nottinghamshire police described the incident as racially aggravated, not as Islamophobic.."

Straight alG story. Nothing on the Google News or AP Myway roundups or BBC. I'll wait for confirmation - not just repeated blather.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 14:49 Comments || Top||

#5  Wow, 1.6 million Muslims live in England? When did this happen.
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 14:51 Comments || Top||

#6  1.6 million Muslims live in England? When did this happen

Oh, the last 20 years or so....
Posted by: mmurray821 || 07/13/2005 15:17 Comments || Top||

#7  Still nobody seems to be picking this up.

While looking I ran across this Beeb story where the PakiWakis claim to have thwarted another attack during the elections... I'm thinking damage control is in progress...
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 15:23 Comments || Top||

#8  dot com is right, its always good to wait for confirmation from multiple sources before assuming an event to have happened.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 07/13/2005 15:29 Comments || Top||

#9  Thx, Lh - something so blatant - it should be all over the place, given the atmosphere. I'm perplexed. alG's not quite that stupid, are they?
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 15:31 Comments || Top||

#10  seems to be true.

this will cause the muslim community to NOT reform:

some will band together as "victims."

for some, it will confirm that the west is waging a war against islam.

and others will simply be less inclined to take action without having any specific reason.
Posted by: PlanetDan || 07/13/2005 15:35 Comments || Top||

#11  There're a handful of sources carrying the story now. One includes the following:

In Nottingham, a man of Pakistani roots was reportedly beaten to death on Sunday.

In Croydon, an area south of London, a man pushed a petrol-soaked rag through the letter box of a Muslim house.

A mosque in Camden, outside of London, has received several bomb threats.

In Hackney, another town outside of London, the homes of two Muslims were stoned.


Europe, welcome to your future.
Posted by: AzCat || 07/13/2005 15:36 Comments || Top||

#12  Something else on BBC while looking, again...

Kids say "We're Not Afraid" in pix from website... Silly pix, but good msg.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 15:36 Comments || Top||

#13  No linky thingys?

Pfeh.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 15:38 Comments || Top||

#14  Bloodythirsty racist Americans... oh, wait, never mind.

/bbc commentary
Posted by: rjschwarz || 07/13/2005 15:59 Comments || Top||

#15  beeb has nothing on this, so i'll assume Al G is jumping on a rumor.

Beeb DOES have this

"Five people have been arrested on suspicion of attempting to petrol bomb a Sikh temple in Belvedere, south-east London"

Now we can all disagree about muslims, but can we all agree that whoever did the above was plain old total idiot?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 07/13/2005 16:13 Comments || Top||

#16  Perhaps these poor "sassier" youths felt a justified seething anger that their elder leaders could not voice because they didn't wish to "rock the boat." All pent up until it exploded? Khalifa for dinner anyone?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/comment/story/0,16141,1527435,00.html
Posted by: GhostofBonzo || 07/13/2005 16:25 Comments || Top||

#17  No blood for eel pie!
Posted by: mmurray821 || 07/13/2005 16:26 Comments || Top||

#18  Ok then, I have no sympathy for the real, imagined, conjured, unconfirmed or hyperthetical Muslim.

The fear of violent retaliation can be even more effective than the real thing...
Posted by: Hyper || 07/13/2005 17:34 Comments || Top||

#19  The thugs beat the guy to death because they wanted to steal his smokes and he resisted. They would have shouted antisemitic slogans if he had been Jewish or standard media cant if he had been American.
They are scum, lice, the dregs of society.
There is nothing in this to cheer, unless you're an Islamo-apologist looking for another excuse to enact a special set of rules.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 07/13/2005 17:39 Comments || Top||

#20  If the report is accurate, it's deplorable.

Barring a complete failure by the legal authorities to enforce the law, vigilantism is immoral. I don't think Britain's gotten to that point, yet, and they've barely been given any time to pursue the attackers from Thursday.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 17:59 Comments || Top||

#21  Deliberately beating innocent bystanders to death is beyond the pale. That is something Muslims do. I think non-Muslims can do better.

It's one thing to take it out on known associates or family members of the bombers. And quite another to take it out on some random person who happens to be of the same ethnicity or religion.

If more attacks occur, the Labor Party's assiduous appeasement of Muslims may well lead to electoral disasters at the polls for Labor. And these setbacks would only be fair, given the demographic disaster that Labor has wrought in its quest for electoral supremacy.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 07/13/2005 18:24 Comments || Top||

#22  Kill em all ,clean up europe
Posted by: Viking || 07/13/2005 18:54 Comments || Top||

#23  No location named, no cross streets, no name of store, no witnesses---just commentators, and nicely well-placed ones. At least cite the local police report!
I'm inclined to think this allegation might be bunk.
Posted by: Asedwich || 07/13/2005 20:48 Comments || Top||

#24  They say it was not connected to a backlash against Muslims following the London bombings, which has seen mosques firebombed and Muslims attacked in the street.

Oh Really?
Posted by: Shaick Floting6142 || 07/13/2005 22:06 Comments || Top||

#25  I could be wrong but I remember the BBC being among the forefront commenting about the upcoming backlash against Muslims in America, a backlash that never really happened.

Unfortunately the Sikhs took a blow by mistake on this side of the Atlantic as well when one was killed in Arizona, proving beyond a doubt that bigots are idiots.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 07/13/2005 22:47 Comments || Top||


Hunt for terror mastermind
Detectives hunting the suicide team responsible for the July 7 terror attacks in London believe they know the identity of the fourth bomber, it emerged today. They think he was a friend of the other three suicide attackers and, like them, lived an outwardly ordinary life in the Leeds area. The men, at least three of whom were Britons of Pakistani origin, died with around 50 innocent victims when they blew themselves up on three packed rush hour underground trains and a bus.
Police and the security services fear the bombers could have been acting on the orders of an al-Qaida mastermind and there may be another bomb team waiting to strike. Asked whether he believed they were part of a larger cell Home Secretary Charles Clarke said: "A central hypothesis which has to be tested and investigated is that the individuals we know about were working within a wider community."
Detectives were working furiously today piecing together the lives of the bombers as neighbours in West Yorkshire told of their shock that suicide attackers had been living in their midst. The bombers had seemed liked normal young men who had lived in Britain all their lives.

Shehzad Tanweer, 22, from Beeston, Leeds, who blew himself up on the Aldgate train, was the son of a local fish and chip shop owner, he loved cricket and football and was a sports science graduate. But friends claimed he had travelled to Afghanistan and Pakistan within the last six months, prompting fears he may have attended an al Qaida training camp.

Mohammed Sadique Khan, a 30-year-old from Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, blew himself up on the Edgware Road train, police believe. Like Tanweer he seemed an unlikely suicide bomber. Friends said he was married with an eight-month-old baby girl and that he worked with disabled children in a primary school.

At almost exactly the same time - 8.50am - the as yet unnamed bomber blew himself up on a train between King's Cross and Russell Square.

Nearly an hour later Hasib Hussain, 19, who lived with his parents in the Leeds suburb of Holbeck, killed himself in the explosion on the number 30 bus at Tavistock Square. When he left his home on Thursday morning, with only a few hours to live, he had told his parents the was going to London for the day with friends. At 10.20pm that day his parents reported him missing to the police casualty bureau, providing one of the vital clues which led detectives to Leeds. Neighbours said he had become "very religious" two years ago. His driving licence and cash cards were found in the mangled wreckage of the bus.

Tony Blair was "shocked" to learn that the London bombers were home-grown terrorists born and raised in the UK, the Prime Minister's official spokesman said. But the spokesman stressed that the Premier did not believe the root causes of the atrocities lay in tensions within British societies, but could be traced back to problems overseas. The Government will take a "two-pronged approach", involving working both with the police and security services to see whether new anti-terror laws are needed and with the Muslim community to develop methods of steering young people away from radicalism.

A Counter-Terrorism Bill, promised in Labour's manifesto, is due to come before Parliament in the autumn and will introduce new offences of preparing for terrorism and encouraging terrorism. The spokesman said the Government would consult with police and security services on whether there are other measures they would like to see introduced, and on whether they would like to see legislation brought forward.

"The Prime Minister, like everyone else, is shocked by the bombs, first and foremost, and by the fact that there are people within this country who believed that this was, in their terms, the right thing to do," said the spokesman. "But he is determined that we should take on this extremism, not just by having the right kind of security measures - and whatever we need to do, we will do on that front - but also by harnessing the views of the rest of the community, including the Muslim community, in putting forward that not only has this kind of extremism no place in this country, but also worldwide. "It is his view that this is not a problem that is limited to this country, but it is a symptom of a much bigger problem and we need to look at that."
He added: "This problem didn't start in this society, in this country. It started beyond our shores. "Therefore, the issue is not just how we address the problem in this country - and there is no question there is a problem - but how we address the wider issue."

Mr Blair's spokesman made clear that, while there were no plans at present to rush legislation through before the start of Parliament's summer recess on July 21, the Government was ready to consider doing so if police believed it necessary. He said the Government would have an "open mind" on any measures which the police thought would help them in the fight against terror. "If the advice from the police is that we need to move in a certain direction and move at a faster pace, we will consider that advice very, very seriously," he said.

He indicated that contact had been made with opposition parties on the issue, on which the Prime Minister wishes to proceed with as great a degree of consensus as possible, both within and outside Parliament.
"The key thing is that we take measures not just for the sake of taking measures, but take measures that the police and authorities feel will be effective and that we do so with as broad an agreement as possible," said the spokesman. He said that the Prime Minister recognised the Government needs to "step up" work with the Muslim community in order to help them "articulate what is the view of the overwhelming majority of the Muslim community, which is that they want nothing to do with this kind of extremism". He added: "The important thing is that, despite the shock of yesterday's news, the community has recognised that it needs to act and it needs to act now."
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 09:21 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Tony Blair today said he intended to tighten the Government's controversial anti-terror laws after the London bombings which claimed 52 lives.
Mr Blair also said measures were in hand to fast-track the deportation of radical priests, to prevent them from spreading what he described as their "evil and extreme ideology", springing from a "perverted and poisonous misinterpretation of Islam".

Today Mrr Blair said that in the next 14 days proposals would be published to tighten the anti-terror laws - including the controversial control orders - which scraped its way onto the statute book at the end of the last Parliamentary session. The focus would be on measures to combat the incitement and instigation of terrorism.

The Government would also look urgently at how to strengthen the process for deporting the hardline priests who incite hatred. He said this would involve opening up dialogue with Muslim leaders both at home and abroad to mobilise the "moderate and true voice of Islam". He added: "I think we all know that security measures alone are not going to deal with this
."
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 9:43 Comments || Top||

#2  He said this would involve opening up dialogue with Muslim leaders both at home and abroad to mobilise the "moderate and true voice of Islam".

Good luck with that.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 9:54 Comments || Top||

#3  Paki terror wotta surprise - thanks ISI!
Posted by: Frank G || 07/13/2005 10:10 Comments || Top||

#4  oooh...another mastermind. Of course, in Islam, it just means they mind the master.
Posted by: 2b || 07/13/2005 10:21 Comments || Top||

#5  I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree about the whole Moslem terrorist deal. In the case it was probably their association with the chip shop that drove them all over the edge. I recommend that any legislation include sanctions against chip shops. Maybe they should just close all the chip shops.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 11:46 Comments || Top||

#6  "The Government would also look urgently at how to strengthen the process for deporting the hardline priests who incite hatred"

Very good.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 07/13/2005 11:57 Comments || Top||

#7  Is importing/deporting the problem actually much of an answer in the end? Why inflict the scum upon somebody else?
Posted by: Shadow || 07/13/2005 12:24 Comments || Top||

#8  "The Government would also look urgently at how to strengthen the process for deporting the hardline priests who incite hatred"

1. Islam doesn't have priests.

2. Assuming one meant 'imans' instead of priests, the imans could delegate the incitement or simply make available audio tapes, etc. There would be a few imans who just can't help themselves and would be deported but the fact that some hatespeach imans would be given a pass would likely inspire others to go up to the new line. Frankly, I think Britain needs:

1. their own version of the patriot act
2. invite famous apostates from Islam (ibn warraq, hirsi ali, ali sina) to give their side of the issue on the BBC
3. we all need an honest translation of the koran which for every verse tells about which verses contradict it in the koran, which hardline sharia fatwahs have used the verse to justify murder etc. --- actually, I think some people are working on this but the project is underfunded and its a lot of work and will take awhile to complete
Posted by: mhw || 07/13/2005 12:30 Comments || Top||

#9  Liberalhawk commented the following: "The Government would also look urgently at how to strengthen the process for deporting the hardline priests who incite hatred"

with:

Very good.

No. Deporting them is not Very good. Good would be to detonate crackers in their ass, weak enough crackers so they have a loooooong and painful agony. Very good would be restarting the penalties for treason in Henry VIII times.
Posted by: JFM || 07/13/2005 12:33 Comments || Top||

#10  Blair needs to call Perv and instruct him to shut down the terrorist training camps.

Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 12:50 Comments || Top||

#11  I think these Muslim extremists have not been satisfied with turning their own countries into a living hell but wish to extend that stupidity to the West. Even the Iraq insurgency demonstrates a lack on any logic. If they are Muslims why do these fools kill other Muslims more than they kill American troops. Fortunately for them our countries are run by idiots who are too weak kneed to round them up and get them out. We should throw all radical Muslims out of our countries immediately. We need to show a united front against them or else they will exploit the cowardice of those who break ranks.
Posted by: 0k0k0k || 07/13/2005 13:21 Comments || Top||

#12  Okay - these muslim extremists were satisfied with attacking their own country.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 13:41 Comments || Top||

#13  Hammerin down that prozak keeps the kook outa okokok don't it?
Posted by: half || 07/13/2005 14:33 Comments || Top||

#14  Really should be "MINDERMAST"

Peter Cook portrayed a chief inspector from New Scotland Yard who was being interviewed about the robbery by a BBC commentator, Dudley Moore.

At one point the chief inspector is asked if he knows who is behind the crime to which he responds, " We believe this to be the work of a mindermast."

He went on to explain that "mindermast" is the code word used at Scotland Yard to describe a "mastermind.

"We don't like to use the word 'mastermind' as it depresses the men," he explained.

Posted by: bruce || 07/13/2005 18:25 Comments || Top||

#15  The 'Mastermind' exists becuase PC logic says the bombers both wouldn't and couldn't do this on their own. The 'wouldn't' fallacy is obvious. The 'couldn't' fallacy assumes most people couldn't construct a bomb unaided. The hard part is getting explosives and detonators. Making the bomb is the easy part. I am unconvinced there is a 'mastermind'. However, if there is, it is extremely bad news. People are assuming the bombs are a oneoff like 9/11 and Madrid. If they become a recurrent event we may well see a real response, rather than the PC blather to date.
Posted by: phil_b || 07/13/2005 19:01 Comments || Top||

#16  Because they were citizens, isn't the BBC obligated to call them insurgents?
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 20:37 Comments || Top||


The backpack butchers
First half of the article's covered by the previous post — gives the names: Shehzad Tanweer, 22, Hasib Hussain, 19, Mohammed Sadique Khan, 30, and a fourth, as yet unidentified man...
... Explosives were found in a car parked at Luton station yesterday. The explosives were due to be blown up in the fifth of a series of controlled blasts. A second vehicle found at Luton was taken to police storage in nearby Leighton Buzzard for examination. A bomb factory was found during raids on six addresses in Leeds and Dewsbury, West Yorks. A male relative of one of the bombers was arrested during one of the dawn swoops.

Armed police and bomb disposal experts yesterday gave 500 families just five minutes to collect their belongings and evacuate homes surrounding a house in Alexandra Grove, in the Burley area of Leeds. Police laid on buses to take families away. They were later told to stay away overnight. Army explosives experts were called in to carry out a controlled blast to break open the door — as cops with sniper rifles kept watch for nearly two hours.

West Yorkshire Chief Constable Colin Cramphorn revealed that suspect material had been discovered in the raids. He added: “There is material in those premises that cannot be identified as harmless. Therefore, we are treating it as potentially hazardous until we are satisfied that it is harmless. We intend not to let people back until we are certain it is safe to do so.”

The day of drama began at 6.30am when police swooped on five other homes. They included two semis knocked into one family home where Tanweer lived in Colwyn Road, in Beeston, Leeds. He shared the house with his parents, brother Rezween, 17, and two sisters. Just 400 yards away in Stratford Street cops stormed a house owned by Asian businessman Mohammed Fiaz and wife Hamida Begum. They are not thought to have lived there for several years. But their sons — Nadeem, 26, and “Jacksey”, in his 30s — would drop in for a few days at time, then leave again. A mile away, officers swooped in the Colenso Mount home of Mahmood Hussain, his wife Manizaand and their their sons Shazia and Hasib. They shared the house with three other Asian men — Misbia and Aqsa Imran and Imran Mir.

In Dewsbury cops removed a silver Ford Escort and a silver Honda from outside the bungalow where retired teacher Farida Patel lived with her son Arshad, his wife and their baby in Thornhill Park Avenue. A police source said the owner of the Escort was one of the bombers, and added: “The guy who drove that won’t be using it again. He’s dead.” Officers also stormed the council house in Lees Holm where Arshad’s sister Hassina lived with her husband and young child.
Posted by: Fred || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I do hope the Brits get a clue, but I can see the electorate follow the lead of the media and blaming Bush's cowboy unilateralism for inciting these 3 animals to kill their fellow British subjects.

The fact that the BBC won't call them terrorists is not encouraging. Are they 'insurgents' against the crown?

I'd be interested to hear what the Rantburg UK contingent has to say now that we know names and circumstances of these scumbags.
Posted by: JAB || 07/13/2005 0:13 Comments || Top||

#2  There is material in those premises that cannot be identified as harmless

chemical or biological agents? poisons?
Posted by: too true || 07/13/2005 2:21 Comments || Top||

#3  The most important thing, dear Brits, is not to let terrorism stop the peace process.
Posted by: gromgoru || 07/13/2005 4:40 Comments || Top||

#4  chemical or biological agents? poisons?

Korans?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 7:39 Comments || Top||

#5  Just a vague troubling thought...

What are the odds that these four would have been able to set off their packages within as short a period as they evidently did?

Could they have been unaware that they were carrying timers? Use of unwitting bombers has already been demonstrated in Iraq.

Not making excuses, mind you, just wondering out loud.

I hope the Brits get to the bottom of it asap.
Posted by: DanNY || 07/13/2005 8:24 Comments || Top||

#6  Could they have been unaware that they were carrying timers? Use of unwitting bombers has already been demonstrated in Iraq.

I'm sure they were aware they were carrying bombs.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 8:32 Comments || Top||

#7  wow and I thought when I was evacuated because of the fire danger here in Colorado was frightening
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 13:30 Comments || Top||

#8  Were you among the ones allowed to go back, Jan? I live here in Colorado Springs. We can see the smoke, sometimes - not as bad as the Hayman fire, but it's there.

US Domestic terrorists - "environmentalists" that want to lock up as much forest land as possible to keep "developers" out. Stupid slugs.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 07/13/2005 15:13 Comments || Top||

#9  Sorry to those for getting off track here a bit.
OP, I was referring to the fires of a few years ago not this current one. We are SW of Denver approx. 50 miles. (The gas prices for our commute are killing us.) Yes, it would be good to have a nice balance for forest control. Folks need to take care of their own property too, we cut down 12 trees that had died and cleared out alot of brush to help reduce the fire threat.

Are you going to the service for Danny Dietz the SEAL that died in Afghanistan tomorrow? It's at Ft. Logan.
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 15:32 Comments || Top||

#10  Jan:
Close to Bailey? That's where My brother's family lives.
Posted by: Jackal || 07/13/2005 16:12 Comments || Top||

#11  Pine actually. What a small world
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 16:25 Comments || Top||

#12  Hey Jan - I live up by Monument - I'm a volunteer firefighter. We've been on standby to go fight the Mason fire since Friday. I'm afraid we wont get to go seeing how late it is.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 07/13/2005 17:24 Comments || Top||

#13  hey we can have our own Colorado Rantburg gathering :)
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 18:16 Comments || Top||

#14  That would be really cool!!!
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 07/13/2005 19:02 Comments || Top||


The suicide bomb squad from Leeds (IDs of 3 of 4 Bombers known)
HT Drudge
FOUR friends from northern England have changed the face of terrorism by carrying out the suicide bombings that brought carnage to London last week. It emerged last night that, for the first time in Western Europe, suicide bombers have been recruited for attacks. Security forces are coming to terms with the realisation that young Britons are prepared to die for their militant cause.
Time to take some Imams in to "extract" information by any method. Through teeth, fingernails, etc... might be useful...
Three of the men lived in Leeds and the immediate fear is that members of a terrorist cell linked to the city are planning further strikes. The mastermind behind the attacks and the bombmaker are both still thought to be at large.
Better find him quick...
The man who planted the bomb at Edgware Road was named last night as Mohammed Sidique Khan, 30, the married father of an eight-month-old baby, who is believed to have come from the Leeds area.
Who needs a wife and kid when you can have 72 vestile virgins at you beck and call peeling grapes, and pouring wine for eternity...
Two other terrorists were Hasib Hussain, 19, who bombed the bus in Tavistock Square, of Colenso Mount, Leeds, and Shehzad Tanweer, 22, the Aldgate bomber, who lived at Colwyn Road, Leeds.
I think they ought to clean out the entire Pak community in Leeds.
Police are still trying to identify the fourth, whose remains are believed to be in the bombed Tube train carriage on the Piccadilly Line. It is thought that he comes from Luton.
International man of mystery, no doubt...
I think it's more like "scorched beyond recognition"...
Armed police raided six addresses in West Yorkshire yesterday, including the homes of three of the men, who they now know travelled to Luton in a hired car last Wednesday to join the fourth man. They boarded the 7.40 Thameslink train to King’s Cross the next day, each armed with a 10lb rucksack bomb.
What every house needs : a 10lb rucksack bomb... Just in case the Jehadi spirit moves you. "Today I get my virgins"
Police found a bomb factory in Leeds containing a “viable amount of explosives”. Explosives were also recovered from a car left parked near Luton station. The raids came after the discovery of driving licences and credit cards at the scenes of the explosions, and a telephone call from the mother of Hasib Hussain, who asked police to try to trace her son.
Well at least the American Express, "Don't leave home without 'em" as finally paid off...
A relative of one of the bombers was arrested and taken to London for questioning. Intelligence agencies say that at least two of the men had recently returned from Pakistan. All four were British, but with origins in Pakistan. MI6, MI5 and British diplomats were in touch with the Pakistani authorities last night to try to track down any connections with terrorists there. Security sources confirmed that none of the bombers was on any MI5 file, although one had links to a person investigated by police.
Yeah chances are slim and none they'll find anything in Pak. Stick to England.
The four were captured on CCTV cameras at King’s Cross Thameslink station, laughing together and carrying rucksacks, minutes before they set off for their targets at 8.30am on July 7.
Laughing together... Anticipating 72 reason to hurry up and convert themselves into DNA goo...
Posted by: BigEd || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Were they on drugs? unaware that the bombs would explode so soon? Or does Islamic brain-washing make four lads happy to die while murdering random innocents?

The latter case would mean we've got to get rid of Islam the same way death-worshipping tribes were eliminated in the past. Shall we start by destroying Mecca?

This has got to stop! Maybe the President of the US could announce yet another unilateral policy: Mecca will be immediately nuked if there is another Islamofascist attack on US territory. Let's see how many Moslems start denouncing their terrorist brothers. Also announce that anyone who knows of terrorist plans and doesn't denounce them immediately to the police will be considered an accomplice.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 0:16 Comments || Top||

#2  We will NOT nuke Mecca.

Such a thing would turn the entire world, Muslim and non-Muslim, against us. Our closest friends, the Brits and the Aussies, would turn against us. It would ruin us.

It is precisely because we cannot nuke Mecca that we must see the WoT through -- carefully, persistently, intelligently, taking out terrorists wherever we find them and promoting personal liberty, democracy and personal responsibility.
Posted by: Steve White || 07/13/2005 1:06 Comments || Top||

#3  The good news is it sounds a purely local effort. I.e. no organization behind it lining up more suicide boomer squads.
Posted by: phil_b || 07/13/2005 1:10 Comments || Top||

#4  Steve White: you have an attitude problem.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 07/13/2005 1:46 Comments || Top||

#5  And I have an Apple computer (piece of junk) double message problem.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 07/13/2005 1:48 Comments || Top||

#6  SW: Of course, you're right. However, if what you said were to come to pass, how much different would it be than it is today? That said, even when A-Q pops a suitcase nuke on Main Street, nothing will have changed. If we respond in kind we're still the bad guy. I dunno, but I get the feeling there's a lot of us out there ready to be the bad guy. I'm getting close myself, especially when the rest of the world already sees us as such. Heck, let's show em what the bad boy can really do. Hey, we had no problem in WWII. We laid waste to entire populations - and we were right to do so. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference here. Especially in regards to the SA....talk about your "root causes".
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 07/13/2005 1:50 Comments || Top||

#7  I here ya Vlad...hang tough. Just think of all those nasty viruses you get miss out on. There...feel better already, eh?
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 07/13/2005 1:53 Comments || Top||

#8  "here?" feh...can't blame that on a Mac!
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 07/13/2005 1:54 Comments || Top||

#9  Wakipaki with SA financed Imams. I figured as much, they don't weven seem to be second generation.

The threat of removing Mecca and Medina from the map ought not be removed from the table, and it should be more than a threat. We should be willing to carry it out. We are an a fight for the continued existance of our freedom and liberty. I sure as hell am willing to fight and die so I can do as I please with my life. Screw these purticanical bastards.
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 07/13/2005 2:09 Comments || Top||

#10  Well Steve White, I served as part of the Nuclear Triad, and can proudly claim to be a war-winner. We would not have won the Cold War without having a viable nuke force, and the willingness to use it.

Pro-nuke problem solvers do have a problem though: no nuclear option is viable without first putting Islam on notice to purge their own ranks of the Wahhabi-Jihadists. My litmus test for Bush is to see him put some demands on Islam (prove you're peaceful or we'll assume you are not, all of you). These demands have to be allowed to work first, and if they do not, THEN nuke Mecca, but wait until the Hajj, and warn them that it's coming, just to see how many stay home from the pilgrimage, as a further litmus test.
Posted by: Rivrdog || 07/13/2005 2:28 Comments || Top||

#11  In reference to Dr Steve's assertion...

As any decent programmer, DB guy, or logician knows, the number of steps from any one point on the logic tree to any other point, via the optimum path, is surprisingly small - even if the endpoint is a final outcome - or branch termination.

For those who don't do this all the freakin' time, lol, sorry, but this serves my purpose so I'm going to use it.

In the real world everything can, indeed, fall wrong (i.e. reaching the worst possible outcome). The events leading to World War I are a damned good example. In logic every decision point (fork) has a probability, a likelihood of occurring... you see this clearly in the NYC blackouts, for example. But that was a pure unadulterated logical sequence - no human emotion existed in the loop. It's a fair statement to say the Caliphatists driving the jihad against freedom are not terribly logical, as we think of it, and often unpredictable. I think we should toss the probabilities which make sense to us and recognize they can force this to an illogical conclusion in a very few steps - or close to it - with events unfolding with startling rapidity -- in spite of your honorably humane intentions. Shit does, indeed, happen, often very quickly, and far more often than pure logic predicts, since humans are often illogical. I guess I'm saying don't be cocky, lol! Candy coat it so, if you have to eat it later, it isn't quite so bitter.

On the other hand, I find it remarkably ironic that it is due to Dubya's religious beliefs that the optimum sequence contains at least SOME predictably low probabilities. IMHO, and in other words, if everything goes wrong and anyone saves them from annihilation, it will likely be Bush, not their "leaders". And that is the literal height of irony, methinks.

Just my take, lol.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 2:32 Comments || Top||

#12  Damn .com, you are not alone in that assertion. I can't believe W actually said we'll overwhelm them with our compassion. Sheesh...that's got their blood running cold. I recall after that great speech he gave following 9/11...I was ready, many of my friends. We couldn't wait to buy war bonds..and there was legislation pending as such. All for nothing. I'm beginning to doubt we have the stomach to win.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 07/13/2005 3:13 Comments || Top||

#13  SW you cannot win the war if you announce to the world that you will never ever nuke Mecca.

You'll be on your way to winning if you let the whole world know that you'll do anything it takes to destroy the enemy, including nuking Mecca if they push us too far. Too far being defined as launching another terrorist attack on US soil or *something else, specific*.

Why do you think the Germans and Japanese surrendered unconditionally in 1945?
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 3:26 Comments || Top||

#14  Further, I care about existing liberties and prosperity in the West, not about potential liberty in the Moslem world. If they want liberty, let them get it for themselves, at the expense of their own tyrants and backward ideologies.

My concern is the life of my loved ones, not the life of man-haters in Moslem-stan. If our safety and freedom from Islamofascism requires the destruction of Moslem-stan, then so be it. It's their choice and we had better make it clear.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 3:29 Comments || Top||

#15  It's all bad, the true believers and also the weak minded folks paid off or following blindly. The basic premise of killing all infidels in this religion, how do you deal with this. Even the "none violent" followers seem to back violence towards America and it's allies.
I feel that we will be seeing alot more of this sort of thing. We need to try and stop this before it gains any more momentum.
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 3:48 Comments || Top||

#16  W says soothing things, the right things, for now.

He says them because he wants to avoid having to totally annihilate the Arab Muslim world through the only other option we have: democratizing it.

But if a nuke, even a small one, goes off in the U.S., all bets are off and ANY concern for the losses on THEIR side of the ledger would be left to historians 100 years from now.

A nuke attack on the US doesn't mean total commitment at first, but as the Belmont Club asserted a few years ago, it wouldn't be long until there was "total commitment."

Just imagine the effect of even a relatively small 10K weapon in NYC. Hundreds of thousands dead. Millions grieving. The most important land in the world uninhabitable for decades. Millions unemployed, as the reverbrations spread. The financial system in chaos (would money still be good, your IRA??). And EVERYONE asking: how many more do they have?

Since we couldn't be sure, ultimately I expect the Middle East would face apocalpyse.

The calculation would be simple. Since we're not sure, there is only one answer: wipe all of them out now.

Crazy? Think about how you felt after 911. The public would demand very severe retaliation and no president could resist that.

Certaintly, the first response would not be to glass the entire Muslim world. My guess is that the first response would be an ultimatimum to every country in the Middle East, except Iraq, but including Pakistan: arrest known terrorists and their financial backers in 48 hours or else.

The slightest lack of cooperation with our ultimatum would be taken as a sign of complicity, because we'd have no patience at all for any kind of BS. The EU would be totally silent, and if not, so what, we would not care...and then it gets really ugly.

Following the likely failure of that ultimatum, Phase One could include the conventional destruction of economic targets, could follow, including attacks on transportation hubs, financial institutions, and commercial centers, by which I mean downtown Damascus, Cairo, Tehran, Riyadh, and other places we deem unfriendly to us.

Military targets in Syria and Iran would almost certainly be vaporized by small nukes, if only to show these assholes what we can do. Pakistani nuclear facilities would be in severe danger. Americans, demanding revenge, wouldn't care in the least if "innocent civilians" were caught in the carnage, not with American corpses rotting in streets so radioactive they couldn't be recovered.

Northwest Pakistan would be turned into a depopulated wasteland. Civilian casualties? Again, no longer an issue.

Meanwhile, back home, you can also be certain that there would be mass deportations of Middle Easterners in the U.S. And no one will raise a peep about any "innocents" being kicked out along with the guilty. Tough.

Phase two would most certainly mean the seizure of oil fields in Saudi Arabia to cut funding to terrorists. Meanwhile, I'd expect black back ops against financiers, imans, and the families of known terrorists, by which I mean executions. fol

Not that it would matter much, but American "dissent" about killing Islamofascists and destroying the governments that protect and nurture them would evaporate. Those who argued against a severe response would likely be jailed as traitors.

Again, with a city like Washington or New York reduced to nuclear ruin, American would ask a simple question: them or us? The answer would be very obvious, and we'd leave it to Berkeley professors 100 years from now to debate the choice we'd make.

But even something as grim as I outline is unlikely to be the end of the story...two weeks after a nuclear 911, we could very well see the complete annihilation of Egypt, Syria, Saudia Arabia and Iran as viable nations because the question would be: is there a threat still there? If yes, it's over for those nations and their people.

I believe in the long-term Bush Strategy because I NEVER want to see the above happen.

But I fear is that there won't be enough time for that strategy, humane as it is, to come to fruition.

I fervently hope I'm wrong.

Sorry, but I see dark times ahead. Very dark times, especially for the Middle East.
Posted by: RMcLeod || 07/13/2005 4:23 Comments || Top||

#17  Rex - I'm not saying we won't end up there, just saying that their last best hope of survival is Bush. That's a weird thing to say, lol, but I know down in my toes it's true.

I've said before I think this will get very ugly. I think that's true both externally against the jihadis - and internally against our own demented Tranzi seditionists. Both want to see the US, almost the last outpost of individualism and bona-fide freedom, subverted and dhimmified - just to different "authorities". Fuck 'em both. And to be perfectly honest, I'd like to get it on now, while I'm still around to carry some water, heh.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 6:26 Comments || Top||

#18  Intelligence agencies say that at least two of the men had recently returned from Pakistan.

I will bet that their relatives were perfectly aware of what kind of "vacation" these beasts were on. I will bet their community was aware of what they were capable of, though maybe not of what they were planning.

I will bet not one of them gave any warning to the kaffir they live among.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 7:38 Comments || Top||

#19  I have to respectfully disagree with Steve White and agree with some of the others here. The whole point of Mutual Assured Distruction (and Disproportionate Response before it) was that each side held the other side's population as hostage as a guarantee of future good behavior. Without MAD, we would have faced the same sort of threats we do now. Hell, Beria was planning those sorts of operations before he was taken down. Read Heinlein's essays from that period. They could have been lifted from Rantburg with just the dates and names changed -- the worries were the same: smuggled nukes, sabotage, sleepers. Maybe it's time to up the ante in this game as we did with the Soviets. Put the entire feudal Mooselimb power structure on notice. You continue to attack our population, we annihilate you and yours.

Of course its easy to talk smack about such a solution. It's much more difficult to find the political will. Unfortunately, I agree with the voices here and elsewhere that it will take a lot of carnage before the will is found.
Posted by: 11A5S || 07/13/2005 7:54 Comments || Top||

#20  I would think a minimum retaliatory action would be for the Brits to expel all Pak males in a certain age bracket, citizens and otherwise. The fact that that will not happen shows how far we are from taking the war to the next level of escalation.
Posted by: jolly roger || 07/13/2005 8:29 Comments || Top||

#21  Well, I feel vindicated. Right after the bombings, I made a comment about why was Scotland Yard wasting its time looking for terrorists coming into the country from abroad. I said that they were home grown passport carrying Brits. Born and raised in England. People thought I was a bigot. Supposedly, Muslims born in the West are different. They have learned to appreciate the country that has given them so much.
I just hope that when they carry their suicide missions (and they will), Americans will react better than the Brits. I am hoping that thousands of mosques would be razed to the ground, preferably with the vermin inside.
Posted by: TMH || 07/13/2005 8:50 Comments || Top||

#22  SW wrote:
Our closest friends, the Brits and the Aussies, would turn against us. It would ruin us
Steve, take it from me, and most of the Aussies I know (exclude the bleeding heart loonies who think that the whole muslim world is a social justice problem, which needs to be managed with appropriate feelgood "programs')
will be behind you 100%
Go for it.
Posted by: tipper || 07/13/2005 8:50 Comments || Top||

#23  MAD worked because the rulers of the countries who held the keys were sane. The new development is that Iran or some other wack-bird state can give a suitcase nuke to a terrorist and delude themselves that they can toss up their hands and say, "wuddn't me" without that being their second to last conscious thought. The last being, "what th.."

You only need to look at history to see what we are capable of. It's not pretty. In the end, have the better technology, they don't. It's just kind of that simple.
Posted by: 2b || 07/13/2005 9:09 Comments || Top||

#24  "I believe in the long-term Bush Strategy because I NEVER want to see the above happen. But I fear is that there won't be enough time for that strategy, humane as it is, to come to fruition. I fervently hope I'm wrong."

Well put; that about how it is for me, as well.

The only nit I'd pick with what you wrote is that I don't think a single, small nuke going off in an American city would be enough to trigger the events you described; my hunch is that it would take several.

But that's a pretty small nit.
Posted by: Dave D. || 07/13/2005 9:11 Comments || Top||

#25  Well said, Dave D! One thing I hadn't thought of until my "coffee club" here at work this morning was internment. I know, I know, the whole ACLU/HRW groupies would go nuts! But "spin" it this way: "We're rounding up the Paki's here in England for their own protection! You see, we know there's some nut-case, far-right Christian out there that wants to kill these buggers! This way, we can watch them and protect them from any backlash!" My first choice would be to deport 'em all, though.
Posted by: BA || 07/13/2005 9:31 Comments || Top||

#26  And, oh yeah, I'm getting close to where you all stand too (on the nuke issue).
Posted by: BA || 07/13/2005 9:37 Comments || Top||

#27  "One thing I hadn't thought of until my 'coffee club' here at work this morning was internment. I know, I know, the whole ACLU/HRW groupies would go nuts! But "spin" it this way: ..."

If Muslim terrorists succeed in nuking a couple of our cities in a coordinated attack, I expect there'll be massive chaos and disorder. I really doubt you'll have to worry about how to "spin" anything to the ACLU/HRW crowd, because one of the very first things that would happen after a nuclear terrorist attack is those people, along with the Michael Moores, the Ted Ralls, and the rest of their ilk would be rounded up and summarily executed.

Like I said before: I don't think a single, small nuke going off in one of our cities would be enough to put us over the edge; but make it several nukes, and I think you'd be surprised how many layers of civilization would be jettisoned, and how quickly and thoroughly it would happen.

Like RMcLeod said: there would be dark times ahead.
Posted by: Dave D. || 07/13/2005 9:41 Comments || Top||

#28  Steve
It could be good for the world.
Really,
Besides, if the spice trade had not sidetracked the Port. Navigators their intent was to do the Roman thing and Salt Mecca. It was supposed to happen in the 1490s...
You are denying the natural progress of history.
Posted by: 3dc || 07/13/2005 9:48 Comments || Top||

#29  The trick is not to wait until it gets so bad that the pogroms start. Pogroms kill the innocent and do little to solve anything. Look at the Watts riots. Useless, meaningless violence that accomplishes nothing but beating up some unfortunate saps in the wrong place at the wrong time. The trick is to stop it before it gets there. The game is much more difficult with the leftist dupes and tools demanding the war be fought with one hand tied behind our back. So...just consider the game more interesting.

What we need to do is to find a way to rid the bad apples. To be cliche, they are spoiling the bunch. We aren't going to get internment because of all of the baggage from WWII. But what we can get is deportment (is that a word? if not, I just made it up). Let's make the ACLU's biggest strength, their biggest weakness. Using the "hate-speech" laws against the mosques and the people from CAIR. They introduced the weapon, why are we so afraid to use it?
Posted by: 2b || 07/13/2005 9:56 Comments || Top||

#30  Agreed, Dave D! The lefties among us play as much a role in this as the jihadis!
Posted by: BA || 07/13/2005 9:56 Comments || Top||

#31  3dc, do you have a reference for the Portuguese desire to level Mecca 500 years ago? thanks.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 10:32 Comments || Top||

#32  Let's make the ACLU's biggest strength, their biggest weakness. Using the "hate-speech" laws against the mosques and the people from CAIR. They introduced the weapon, why are we so afraid to use it?

Oh, please. The moment it's said by one of the protected groups, it ceases to be "hate speech" and become protected speech. Particularly since much of the incitement takes place in mosques.

Remember, the left considers it an abomination for the government to collect newspaper clippings about what people say in public. They used the Church Commission to ban the FBI from conducting surveillance on "place of worship", and if the Patriot Act removed that ban (I'm not sure it did), that's no doubt one of the reasons they want the Patriot Act eliminated!
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 11:12 Comments || Top||

#33  Ok...maybe I am dreaming. But the best way to fight a fire out of control is with fire.

Ask yourself - WHY should we just accept the hate speech is spewed in mosques? Why can't we use the laws against it? Why is it considered protected speech? Because why??

Maybe it's time that we took a hard, long, look at why we allow this double standard and put an end to it. It certainly would be easier and more effective than nuking MECCA.
Posted by: 2b || 07/13/2005 11:22 Comments || Top||

#34  Wow. SO many interesting thoughts...

You can't crater Mecca...yet... At this point we have to spy on every mosque to find who the radical Imams are, then do what ever we have to do to silence them.

These Mosques are where the problem is. These Imams are where the evil is. This is where you have to fight terrorism. If any of these terrorist Imams is found to recruit suicide terrorists, then take action against the Imams.

If the ACLU tries to get in the way, make life uncomfortable for those in the ACLU involved with obstruction the way the Clinton administration harassed people who knew the truth about Bubba's pecadillos...

We can't be nice anymore. Everyone's lives are at stake.
Posted by: BigEd || 07/13/2005 11:28 Comments || Top||

#35  Oh, I agree that it needs to be ended. But "hate speech" and the ACLU aren't going to do it. Remember what happened after an "anti-villification" law was passed in Victoria, Australia -- the first people convicted under it were criticizing Islam for its particularly vile comments about Christians and Jews!

The only way it will end, really, is if Muslims put an end to it. They've not really shown any impulse to do that. Rather the opposite, in fact.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 11:32 Comments || Top||

#36  Nuking Mecca doesn't help. Muhammedanism is flexible enough to deal with the loss of the Kabba.
I can't see any shortcuts in this war. If we win by attrition, it is going to take a long time. If we win by overwhelming Muhammedan states around the world, it is going to cost us a lot of blood and still take a long time and a lot of garrisoning. I'd rather try attrition first, even if it means we have to pretend to be friends with the scum of the earth for a while.
Posted by: James || 07/13/2005 11:32 Comments || Top||

#37  If (when?) a nuke goes off in the US, all this talk about laws and "protected speech" and such will go away if somebody prominant can make the case to the population as a whole that groups like the ACLU actively protect and support terrorists with their lawsuits and civil rights cry-fests.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 07/13/2005 11:33 Comments || Top||

#38  You can't crater Mecca...yet... At this point we have to spy on every mosque to find who the radical Imams are, then do what ever we have to do to silence them.

And when their replacement is just as radical?

And if the community has no objection to the radicals?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 11:37 Comments || Top||

#39  The Muslims aren't going to do it fast enough. I think we all agree on that.

And I agree about the ACLU - I meant they are the enemy we need to fight against. I just wish someone in the Bush Administration had the guts to create an agency willing to prosecute and deport for the hate speech in the mosques. Don't get me wrong - I'm not a fan of these laws and it's a very dangerous game. It's like a backfire - lots of things get burned in the process. But we have to stop the propaganda in the mosques somehow! Any way is a good way.
Posted by: 2b || 07/13/2005 11:39 Comments || Top||

#40  I'd like for it to be understood that at any time the mosque's may have an inside observer to their chants. A fly on the wall type not obvious to them. I don't like too much of a big brother but this is a public place. That at any time if they said or did anything to promote any crimes or retaliations in their minds that it would be dealt with very seriously. We can't monitor all of the mosque's, but we can some. When the violence breeds here among us, and our freedoms have been misguided to allow for them to organize here, it's crossed the line.
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 11:48 Comments || Top||

#41  Sooner or later we are going to have to face up to the fact that it is the Saudi's Wahabism that is at the root of most of these problems. Look at OBL's origins and AQ's funding, look at the 9/11 terrorist's origins and funding, look at Wahabi textbooks and Wahabi proliferation of madrasas and mosques around the world, look at Saudi financing of Pakistan's nuclear program.

The menace is growing. It is growing in Leeds and Dearborn and a mosque near you. And it is just as dangerous as a Nazi Europe or an Imperial Japanese Asia/Pacific. And we've had the Pearl Harbor equivalent.

Now why, Dr. Steve, would we not respond to this Saudi menace just as we responded in WWII. Do we have to wait until Islam has all Europe except for the U.K.? Do we have to wait until Islam has all of southeast Asia? Do millions of our allies have to die before we turn back the menace that avows that we are lowly infidels, unworthy of life and that women -- half the Earth's population -- are property? I think not.
Posted by: Neutron Tom || 07/13/2005 11:53 Comments || Top||

#42  2b -- I just posted an article on how Britain's "religious hate" law is going to be enforced. The same words, straight out of the Koran, are to be considered hate if they come from a non-Muslim's mouth. The same thing would happen here -- it would take about two minutes for some Kosnut to file a complaint against Charles Johnson, and you can bet some California prosecutor will want to make his name on the prosecution.

Jan:
I'd like for it to be understood that at any time the mosque's may have an inside observer to their chants. A fly on the wall type not obvious to them. I don't like too much of a big brother but this is a public place.

Oddly, there are Muslims inside every mosque during prayers. If they wanted to expose incitement, they could.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 12:11 Comments || Top||

#43  And when their replacement is just as radical?

RC - If the replacements continue to be radical, then we may have to consider doing the unthinkable... Its us or them...
Posted by: BigEd || 07/13/2005 12:26 Comments || Top||

#44  What is the definition of religion. I know that the Muslims see the Holy Koran as religious, but with all of the hating of Infidels amongst it's pages is that by definition religious, or fanatical and dangerous, like any other hate group.

RC, I meant a non muslim believer observer. To report back if any hate is being harvested.
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 12:49 Comments || Top||

#45  RC, I meant a non muslim believer observer. To report back if any hate is being harvested.

My point was that the mythical moderates should be doing that already.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 13:47 Comments || Top||

#46  Religion is a precursor form of philosophy that embraces the existence of specific supernatural entities and/or forces. Examples are Christianity (God, Moses, Jesus, miracles...), Buddhism (Buddha, nirvana, ...), Hinduism (Shiva, Vishnu, karma, ...) and Islam (Allah, Mussa, Issa, Mohammed...).

They all tend to ask similar questions and of course offer distinct answers:

- how did the world arise, and what role does the supernatural play (and often: how will it end)

- what constitutes valid knowledge, what can be challenged, and what is immutable

- how do I lead a good life

- how should people live in society

- and sometimes, what is beauty and what form of art is permissible

Islam has the following answers:

- Allah is the one and only god; he made everything, including djinns

- Mohammed told the eternal truth, as recorded in the Koran; everything else is false

- bump your forehead five times a day towards Mecca, be a slave to Allah in all your thoughts and deeds, hate non-believers and lie to them (taqiya), enslave your wife, and above all don't think for yourself

- oppress and kill non-believers (jihad), kill anyone who tries to abandon or water down Islam, and seek to establish religious dominion over all aspects of society as well as of private life (sharia)

- do not attempt to create beauty, only Allah can do it; e.g. music, dancing, and figurative painting are out

It's not religion as such that one should look at. It's what is being preached.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 13:50 Comments || Top||

#47  all right then to use your language;
for what is being preached should be monitored, and if dangerous be dealt with.
I think we're on the same page here
forgive the pun
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 14:08 Comments || Top||

#48  I don't see how the lightbulb will go off amongst Muslims unless their is a clear incentive for them to wake up and take action. In this case that has to be either a credible threat or a shining example of the benefits of democracy in their midst. Who knows if the latter will happen quickly enough, or even at all. I agree that Saudi-funded Wahabism is the root if this evil. It must be throttled to death and soon or this will come to a terrible ending. I too am not optomistic for the long term.
Posted by: remoteman || 07/13/2005 14:14 Comments || Top||

#49  The shoe that needs to drop is the realization that freedom of speech assumes a common understanding that we all want to live in peace together and respect everyone's freedom. We need a test of speech that calls for murder and slavery. Note "hate speech" but specific words calling for murder. I don't care if you hate and proclaim your hatred of my guts, my skin colour, my ideas, etc. -- but I care if you advocate my murder.

Islamism as it exists would fail such test because it advocates murder and the destruction of freedom. There can be no right to advocate murder. Same as there is no right to falsely shout "fire" in a crowded theater.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 14:20 Comments || Top||

#50  well said
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 15:06 Comments || Top||

#51  I think the words have already been whispered in a few ears, and by someone sent by "W". Those words are: "If there's another strike on the United States, we will completely destroy you and your religion". Unfortunately, after creating the monster, neither Saudi Arabia nor the Wahabbist Imams can control it any longer. Most of the hatred is because of the contradictions of Islam: there can be no beauty, grace, social intercourse, or freedom outside the mosque. This is a very limiting existence. The Muslims living elsewhere see all the things forbidden them, and are conflicted. They're supposed to hate all this, but it's GOOD. So they have a choice - either destroy it and be good "muslims", or succumb to it and be apostates. Is it any wonder the entire Middle East is nuts?
Posted by: Old Patriot || 07/13/2005 15:48 Comments || Top||

#52  Old Patriot puts his finger exactly on the problem for Moslems in the West:

- they see people using their faculty reason, enjoying freedom and prosperity, and pursuing happiness in this world

- they repeat five times a day that there is only one way to be good, and that is to be a Moslem and hate all of the above

- they have to make a choice, abandon Islam for the pursuit of happiness or remain a slave of Allah

- but they're also told that anyone who abandons Islam (or waters it down) is an apostate deserving to be killed (not just that sinners according to Mo-the-Paedo go to hell)

No Way Out. It takes a lot of independence and courage for an individual thus brainwashed to break the shackles and pursue their own happiness despite the death threat. Note also that neither virtue is a Moslem trait.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 07/13/2005 16:44 Comments || Top||

#53  One hundred well-aimed .45 bullets would do more good than a nuke on Mecca, or anywhere else for that matter. We have to be ruthless, but smart. The true enemy must learn true fear.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 07/13/2005 17:28 Comments || Top||

#54  (nuke mecca)
"Such a thing would turn the entire world, Muslim and non-Muslim, against us. Our closest friends, the Brits and the Aussies, would turn against us. It would ruin us."

If we (a) have these allies (b) we get nuked (c).

These allies restrain us, and put us at risk. Best to loose them.
Posted by: flash91 || 07/13/2005 19:41 Comments || Top||

#55  The myth that suicide bombers and radical Muslim militants come from the disenfranchised, poor, and downtrodden has already been disproven---this latest news goes far in proving that "Westernization" is not the sovreign cure for the illness that is Islam.
Mitigating factor that Britian just might not be doing it right, but I can't give it much weight, personally.

Bush is a Neocon, I'm not. Bush seems to believe that we can bring Western democracy and freedom to Islam---I don't think it can be done. Dems seem to believe Islam is welcome to its squalor and inequity, all cultures and moralities being equal and all that bunk.

But where Bush wants to cure it, and Dems want to make concessions and integrate it, I feel that the whole mess should be quarrantined. And yes, with no other option on the table, nuking Mecca seems a lot more attractive than the half-assed measures we're taking now.
Posted by: Asedwich || 07/13/2005 19:46 Comments || Top||


Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Soldiers wounded in convoy boom
Four soldiers and a policeman were wounded when an explosive device went off near a military convoy in eastern Chechnya, a source in the Joint Group of Forces in the North Caucasus said Wednesday.

The explosion occurred at 12:40 p.m. Tuesday in the Shali district of Chechnya, when a convoy of five armored personnel carriers and several trucks with Interior Ministry troops and policemen was passing by.

According to preliminary data, a remote controlled mine had been detonated.

An investigation has been launched and efforts are under way to find the perpetrators of the crime.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 07/13/2005 16:42 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  There was a day when the chechens would normally be following the detonation up with an ambush and, if lucky, videotaped slaughter of prisoners and mutilation of corpses (think one of the main videographers was actually a brit who was shaheed). Hasn't really been the case for awhile. Ranks are thinning and funds drying up with the other attractions around the globe and all perhaps? Kavkaz has dropped the spring offensive special coverage this year and old nasty pegleg Basayev (slimelight whore) has curiosly enough been real sparse imagewise. Hmmm.
Posted by: Tkat || 07/13/2005 23:50 Comments || Top||


Caucasus Corpse Count
Three Russian soldiers have been killed and twelve injured in attacks by rebel forces in Chechnya over the last 24 hours, according to official Chechen government figures released Wednesday.

Russian positions came under attack 13 times since Tuesday leaving one soldier dead and wounding five others, an anonymous source in the pro-Russian administration revealed.

Another soldier was killed and three others were wounded after clashes with rebels near Aguichty, in the southern region of Vedeno.

On Tuesday a military convoy was hit by an explosive device in the same area, killing a third soldier and wounding four. A policeman, travelling with the convoy, was also injured.

Two more policemen were hurt when their car was hit by gunfire near the capital Grozny.

Russian troops have managed to push into the southern regions of Vedeno and Chatoi, the source said.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 07/13/2005 16:41 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


China-Japan-Koreas
Kimmy tells Koreas to "Just Say No" to Nukes
North Korean leader Kim Jong Il told a visiting Chinese diplomat Wednesday that his country seeks a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula, China's official Xinhua News Agency reported.
And a shiny new Cadillac too!

Xinhua also paraphrased Kim as saying he hoped six-party international talks could be an important platform for realizing that goal. A new round of talks — involving the two Koreas, the United States, China, Russia and Japan — are expected to begin in Beijing the week of July 25.
All of Korea will join together to make sure that I, the glorious leader, have my Cadillac


Kim made his remarks to Chinese State Councilor Tang Jiaxuan, who is on a diplomatic mission to the North as a representative of President Hu Jintao, Xinhua said.

North Korea "expects the next round of the talks to be held on time and make positive progress," Kim was quoted as saying.
Kim was also quoted as saying he liked licorice and he hoped the Americans would bring some to the next "round of six" talks

He also thanked China for its "unremitting efforts toward the resumption of the six-party talks," Xinhua said, paraphrasing the reclusive leader.

China, the North's last major ally, has campaigned hard over the past year to restart the disarmament negotiations. Beijing is believed to supply North Korea with up to one-third of its food and one-quarter of its energy needs.

The report came after Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice praised a South Korean energy aid proposal that enticed North Korea to end its 13-month boycott of the disarmament talks and expressed hope for an end to the international standoff.

The United States and South Korea are "very optimistic that our joint efforts to improve the security situation on the Korean Peninsula could indeed bear fruit, although of course there is still much work to be done," Rice said during a visit to Seoul, South Korea.

North Korea said over the weekend it would return to the nuclear talks after being reassured by the top U.S. nuclear envoy that Washington recognized Pyongyang's sovereignty. The North has stayed away from the weapons negotiations since June 2004, citing "hostile" U.S. policies.

A top Russian diplomat expressed optimism about the upcoming six-party talks.

"We fully expect a degree of progress and a step forward, compared to the agreements reached in previous meetings," Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Alexeyev told the Interfax news agency in an interview.

Alexeyev also said Moscow had argued for offering security guarantees to the isolated regime in Pyongyang to persuade it to give up its nuclear weapons program, according to separate comments reported by ITAR-Tass.

Pyongyang declared in February that it had nuclear weapons and has insisted that the nuclear standoff can only be discussed with the United States. The North's claim has not been verified independently.

In March, it declared that it should be treated equally as a nuclear power, and it demanded that the six-nation talks address the disarmament of all countries involved — including the United States.

But last month, Kim said North Korea would return to the talks if it received appropriate respect from Washington.

On Wednesday, Rice urged North Korea to be prepared for substantive discussions on giving up its nuclear arms.

"The agreement of the North Koreans to come back to the talks is a very good step but only a first step," she said. "We look forward to a strategic decision by the North Koreans to abandon their nuclear weapons."

On Tuesday ahead of Rice's arrival, South Korean Unification Minister Chung Dong-young said South Korea has offered to provide electricity to the North if it agrees to give up nuclear weapons at the revived arms talks — a previously secret proposal he made directly to the North Korean leader at a meeting last month.

Rice noted Wednesday that the North's energy needs were also addressed in a U.S. proposal made at the last nuclear talks in June 2004 that she said "is still on the table." Washington has promised diplomatic recognition and economic aid to the North only after it verifiably dismantles its nuclear weapons program.

Chung said the North has not responded directly to the plan, which also has been presented to U.S. officials.

South Korea on Tuesday also pledged to give 500,000 tons of rice to North Korea — Seoul's largest food shipment in five years — in aid that is not tied to the nuclear issue and that was agreed during economic talks between the two Koreas.

Seems Kimmy is running out of food and oil and doesn't have any friends left, or he just wants that new Caddy and some licorice realllllly badly!
Posted by: Hupinese Hupoluting6576 || 07/13/2005 15:12 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  He's ronery and sadry arone.
Posted by: BigEd || 07/13/2005 16:11 Comments || Top||

#2  Hawns Bwix! Ywour busten' my bawls, Hawns!
Posted by: mmurray821 || 07/13/2005 16:27 Comments || Top||


Down Under
Italy convicts 2 on terrorism charges
An Italian judge on Wednesday convicted two North Africans of belonging to an extremist cell alleged to have planned attacks in Italy, including one against Milan's subway. Judge Silvia Milesi sentenced the defendants -- Moroccan Mohamed Rafik and Tunisian Kamel Hamraoui -- to up to four years and eight months in prison, a defense lawyer said. A third suspect, Tunisian Najib Rouass, was sentenced to one year and two months in prison on the lesser charge of inciting violence, while a fourth, Tunisian Romdhane Ben Othmane Khir, was acquitted, said lawyer Ilaria Crema. All defendants denied the charges, and those convicted are expected to appeal the ruling. Prosecutor Roberto Di Martino described the verdict as a "balanced ruling."

The trial in Brescia, about 96 kilometers (60 miles) east of Milan, drew to a close amid renewed fears of an attack in Italy and increased security across the country following the London bombings last week. Earlier Wednesday, Italian police carried out raids against suspected Islamic extremists, conducting about 200 searches across the nation, the Interior Ministry said. No arrests were reported, but the Interior Ministry said that 174 people were being questioned.

The four suspects in Brescia had been granted at their request a fast-track trial that allows for lesser sentences if suspects are convicted. Six other North Africans, believed to have belonged to the same cell, are being tried in nearby Cremona, about 100 kilometers (62 miles) southeast of Milan. Among them is Moroccan Ahmed El Bouhali, who disappeared in 2001 and was considered by investigators the cell's leader. He is being tried in absentia. Investigators have said the cell was connected to international terrorist networks for which it raised money, faked identity documents and recruited extremists to fight abroad. Members of the cell also discussed attacking Milan's subway and the cathedral in Cremona in October 2002, authorities have alleged. Di Martino, the prosecutor, said the cell was believed to also have contacts with Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network, without elaborating.

Most of Italy's anti-terror probes have been based in northern Italy, especially in and around the Milan area. Authorities say that Italy mainly served as a base of logistical support. Both Rafik and Hamraoui were arrested in 2003 as part of their investigation into the alleged extremist cell, based in Cremona. Rafik, who has lived in Italy since 1998, served as imam in Florence before moving to Cremona. Considered a key suspect in the case, he was given a sentence of four years and eight months in prison, while Hamraoui was sentenced to three years and four months. Rafik is alleged to have ties to the Muslim extremist movement Salafia Jihadia, which Moroccan officials have blamed for the 2003 bombings in Casablanca. He denied any involvement. Italy's highest court has rejected an extradition request issued by Moroccan authorities.

Prosecutors had requested a nine-year sentence for Rafik and a sentence of four years and six months for Hamraoui. Milesi's reasoning on her verdict must be released within 90 days. Officials said the verdict was one of the first convictions under Italy's international terrorism charge, which allows for stiffer sentences and was enacted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States. The ANSA news agency said the only previous conviction on the charge was the result of a plea bargain. Prosecutors have sought sentences under the charge for many other suspects who have either been acquitted or sentenced on lesser charges.

Italian Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu called Tuesday for modifications to the international terrorism charge so it could be used more easily against loosely knit international terrorist groups, such as those linked to al Qaeda. Pisanu was briefing the Italian parliament on proposals for tightening security following last week's deadly bombings in London.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 07/13/2005 16:49 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Europe
GSPC member busted in France
A suspected member of Algeria's hardline Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC) believed to have close ties to Osama bin Laden has been detained in southern France, court sources said Wednesday. Othman Deramchi, also known as Abu Yusef, was detained in the French port city of Marseille in a joint operation conducted by French and Italian agents after Italy issued a Europe-wide warrant for his arrest. Deramchi, 51, was wanted by Italy following his sentencing there to eight years in prison on charges of trafficking false identity papers in connection with terrorist activities.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 07/13/2005 16:46 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Turkey asks Iraq to keep an eye out for hard boyz
Turkey has asked Iraq's government to extradite two men on suspicion they took part in a string of al Qaeda-linked bombings in Istanbul in 2003, the Turkish foreign ministry said on Wednesday.

Burhan Kus and Sadettin Akdas, both Turkish nationals, fled from Turkey after the four suicide bombings in Istanbul and are being held by the U.S. military in an Iraqi prison, authorities have said.

"Iraqi authorities are continuing examination and evaluation of the files we have presented, and our ministry and Baghdad embassy is closely following the situation," the foreign ministry said in a statement.

A Turkish cell belonging to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network claimed responsibility for the truck bomb attacks on two synagogues, the Turkish headquarters of London-based bank HSBC and the British consulate in Istanbul.

More than 60 people, including the bombers, were killed and hundreds were wounded.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 07/13/2005 16:22 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Italy police detain 174 people in anti-terror sweep
ROME (Reuters) - Police raided scores of homes and detained 174 people across Italy on Wednesday in a sweeping anti-terrorism crackdown on suspected Islamic militants. "The operation has been prepared for some time and confirms Italy has never lowered its guard in the face of terrorist risks," Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu told journalists. The crackdown, involving 201 search warrants from Milan to Naples, follows last week's deadly attacks in London and comes a day after Pisanu warned that terrorism was "knocking on Italy's door" and urged parliament to strengthen security laws to prevent an attack.

"I'm not saying that we have seized terrorists. It's a preventative operation in high-risk environments," Pisanu said before the announcement of detentions. The ministry said those detained were not under formal arrest, but were among 423 people being checked out. It said some of the detainees were being questioned over their legal status in Italy. No further details were immediately available.

The search warrants were issued to look for illegal arms and explosives, a spokesman for the ministry's public security department said. "About 200 search warrants are currently being carried out," said the spokesman, who did not want to be named. "They are related to controlling radical Islam throughout the country." Police sources said they were investigating a wide range of crimes, from falsifying documents to terrorism. Raids were carried out in a number of cities across Italy, but investigations were focused on Milan, Rome, Turin and Naples, Interior Ministry sources said. Also on Wednesday, an Italian judge convicted two Islamic militants on terrorism charges in a case related to a plot to attack a Milan subway station and a church in the northern city of Cremona in 2002.

On Tuesday, Pisanu called for beefed-up controls at Italy's borders and an extension of the period a suspect can be detained for identification from 12 to 24 hours, among other measures. Last Thursday's bombings of three underground stations and a bus in London killed at least 52 people and wounded 700. Italy has been on edge since the blasts and has had to deal with a series of bomb threats. In recent days, Rome has evacuated a terminal at its international airport, a street near the interior minister's home and the offices of a major bank. Britain and Spain, which have suffered major attacks, both supported the U.S.-led war in Iraq, stirring fears that Italy and other U.S. allies could be targeted too.
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 14:32 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Based on the punishments meted out to the last group of possible bombers in Italian court, maybe its time to revisit mandatory sentencing lengths for terrorist crimes in Italy. The current batch of European bombers aren't interested in damaging property to send a political message.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 20:07 Comments || Top||


France reintroduces EU border controls: Sarkozy
BRUSSELS, July 13 (AFP) - France has activated a clause in the Schengen open borders agreement enabling it to reintroduce border controls within the European Union, French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy said Wednesday. "If we don't reinforce border controls when around 50 people die in London, I don't know when I would do it," Sarkozy said on the sidelines of a meeting of EU interior ministers.

France has used the clause in the past, mainly for major sporting and political events, but Sarkozy said it was activated this time in response to the London bombings last Thursday in which at least 52 people were killed.
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 12:55 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  How unilateral and cowboyish.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 13:46 Comments || Top||

#2  THE COUNTRY OF PEACE AND TOLERANCE
Posted by: MACOFROMOC || 07/13/2005 14:14 Comments || Top||

#3  Oh, well, if France says it's ok, perhaps the USA will finally do the same for it's borders.
Posted by: Hyper || 07/13/2005 14:45 Comments || Top||

#4  Sarkozy is a "young Chirac" with an enormous personnal ambition, all show and talk, not much substance, and is marketing himself as the only "alternative" (for example, courtizes both the National Front voters AND the muslims, being quite muslim-friendly and having done some legislative work that outdid the socialists); he is pro-immigration, despite what you've read, and has a communautarist, multiculturalist vision of society. The only thing I can love in him is that he's more free market and atlantist than most "conservative" pols.
Otherwise, IMHO, he's a dangerous man to France, and, of course, could well be its next president.
Some readign material in french from dissident UMP (Sarkozy party) here :
http://www.union-republicaine-populaire.com/main.html
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 07/13/2005 15:17 Comments || Top||

#5  Nothing unusual, every country can do so if necessary... a major soccer match can be a reason sometimes.
Posted by: True German Ally || 07/13/2005 18:02 Comments || Top||


Italy jails two over attack plot
An Italian court has jailed two North Africans convicted of being part of a cell plotting attacks in Italy. Moroccan imam Mohamed Rafik received four years and eight months, while Kamel Hamroui was sentenced to three years and four months. The court in Brescia also jailed Najib Rouass for 16 months on lesser charges. They are the first convictions in Italy under international terrorism laws that were introduced after the 11 September 2001 attacks in the US.

Spanish news agency Efe said Rafik had been linked by the Moroccan authorities to the Casablanca bombings in 2003 which killed 46 people.
Six other North Africans, believed to have been part of the same cell, are being tried in nearby Cremona. Investigators said the Cremona-based cell was connected to international militant networks - raising money, faking identity documents and recruiting extremists to fight abroad.

On Tuesday, the Italian government announced plans to introduce special measures to combat the threat of attack in the wake of the London bombings. Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu told MPs that "terrorism is knocking on Italy's door". He said security would be stepped up at ports and the public transport system, and mobile phones and the internet would be monitored.
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 09:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  If they only intend to lock-up terrorists for 3 months, I hope they will at least provide us with DNA samples and copies of their prints so that we can protect ourselves.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 12:06 Comments || Top||

#2  Fat chance, SH. That would violate EU privacy regs and help Bushitler.
Posted by: too true || 07/13/2005 12:48 Comments || Top||


'Bomb' found in Dutch boy's room
A 17-year-old boy who stored home-made explosives at his parents' home has been arrested by Dutch police. The boy was detained by Amsterdam police investigating the Hofstad group - an alleged Islamist militant network. It is not clear whether he has ties with the group that is suspected of being linked to the killing of Dutch film-maker Theo van Gogh. Prosecutors said a makeshift explosive device was found in the room of the boy, who has not been named.
Pieter? Hans? Theo?
More than likely, he's a convert to the ROP
They said the boy was active on the internet where he expressed radical beliefs. National prosecutor's office spokesman Wim de Bruin said the boy was accused of "actions to prepare an attack, terrorist or otherwise". The office said in a statement that the device consisted of a tube filled with gun powder, small bullets and a detonation mechanism. "The investigation is aimed at discovering if he had contact with the Hofstad network," it added. More than a dozen suspected members of the network are awaiting trial on terrorism charges.

Additional: ANP said the security services had been keeping a watch on the youth as part of their investigation into the so-called Hofstad group of radical Islamists, which had contacts with the suspected killer of filmmaker Theo van Gogh. The youth had been active in MSN chatrooms, expounding radical views, and had sent threatening messages to right-wing politician Geert Wilders, the agency said. ANP said the youth was of Dutch-British origin and had converted to Islam when he was 14.
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 08:57 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Love Auntie Beeb's scare quotes: 'Bomb'

The office said in a statement that the device consisted of a tube filled with gun powder, small bullets and a detonation mechanism.

Okay, I give up. What is that? What would be a better, BBC-approved word for that? 'Amusement'? If it had been found outside of the Beeb's bureau, something tells me they would recognize it as a device intended to destroy their property and kill as many people standing nearby as possible.

But I'm still having a hard time coming up with the right word for that. Any help?
Posted by: eLarson || 07/13/2005 10:15 Comments || Top||

#2  We should offer them "thingy".

We've been waay too stingy with it, keeping it to ourselves. It serves so well in so many situations. Not as all-purpose as "shit" or "damn", and nothing comes close to "fuck", of course, but "thingy" is pretty good.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 10:22 Comments || Top||

#3  It never ceases to amaze me. That we (Westerner's) are always bashed because we don't understand Islam. Yet, instead of changing the countries they live in through voteing (would of been easier for them had the not did 9/11).The left was already sympathetic with them. They could of pushed the Palestinian cause all the way to upper levels of goverment, if they were just patient, something I keep being told "they are patient". Just look at how they were making headway in many European countries. When they attacked on 9/11, they succeced in dividing people in those European countries (as well as the US). But then they start to kill innocents in other countries, which changes the minds of some of the people that were for them, but only stengthens the beliefs of those against them.
Posted by: plainslow || 07/13/2005 10:31 Comments || Top||

#4  Hofstad Group? Sounds like some kind of Dutch or German beer.

Convert to Religion of Decapitation of Humans Blown to Pieces Peace, most certainly.

Notice how only a tiny number of Moooslims, all males, condemn the terrorists. The total absence of Mooooslim women is astounding! Don't the mothers of these would-be (BBC's termed bombers) murderers have anything to say?

By the way, the BBC's refusal to call these monsters anything but bombers ought to remind all British people that the BBC is subsidized by taxpayer pounds! Let the BBC go the way of the private sector, and it will have an auidence similar to Air America ... about 10 Marxist-Leninist profs that hang out at Oxford.
Posted by: Sneth Throluger6439 || 07/13/2005 10:51 Comments || Top||

#5 

Mon dieu! You say zere was a bumb found in zee boy's bedroom?
Posted by: BigEd || 07/13/2005 11:16 Comments || Top||

#6  Instead of "bomb," how about "school project?"
Do they have madrassas in Holland?
Posted by: James || 07/13/2005 11:35 Comments || Top||

#7  Sources close to the investigation told ANP that intercepted telephone calls showed the youth seemed to have been out to get Independent right-wing MP Geert Wilders. The MP also confirmed on Wednesday that the teen, who is the administrator of radical Islamic newsgroups, was suspected of threatening him via the internet.

Our "fake" Murat was posting from the Netherlands. His rantings sounded like something a teenager would write.
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 13:12 Comments || Top||

#8  Small world. Still wouldn't want to paint it, though.
Posted by: eLarson || 07/13/2005 14:00 Comments || Top||

#9  Is Infernal Machine still viable?
Posted by: Shipman || 07/13/2005 14:42 Comments || Top||

#10  Religious artifact, perhaps?
Posted by: Jackal || 07/13/2005 16:17 Comments || Top||


Warsaw metro closed after bomb alert
WARSAW - The sole metro line in the Polish capital Warsaw was closed on Tuesday following a bomb alert, police spokesman Marcin Szyndler said, less than a week after the bomb attacks in London’s Underground system. “We’ve received information about an explosive charge in the metro. In order to verify this information, the metro line had to be closed to the public,” the spokesman said.

“We cannot ignore any information of this kind. Our teams of experts are checking right now,” he added.

The Polish news agency PAP reported that emergency services had received an anonymous telephone call at 1:00 pm (1100 GMT) warning that a bomb had been placed in a metro station. Warsaw Mayor Lech Kaczynski quickly took the decision to evacuate the metro system and shut it down, he told private television TVN24. “I made the decision in about a minute, after learning that a bomb could explode in less than 15 minutes,” he said.
Posted by: Steve White || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Turkish soldier seized by Kurdish rebels
Posted by: Seafarious || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Home Front: WoT
Military Outlines Cases of Abuse at Gitmo
EFL.Somewhere, Dick Durbin weeps...
WASHINGTON - Interrogators subjected a suspected terrorist to abusive and degrading treatment, forcing him to wear a bra, dance with another man and behave like a dog, military investigators reported Wednesday, saying that justified their call for disciplinary action.
I'll bet he loved it. Except maybe the dog part. FILTHY INFIDEL BEAST!
Investigators described their findings before the Senate Armed Services Committee Wednesday. They were looking into allegations by FBI agents who say they witnessed abusive interrogation techniques at the Guantanamo prison for terrorist suspects.The chief investigator, Air Force Lt. Gen. Randall M. Schmidt, described the interrogation techniques used on Mohamed al-Qahtani, a Saudi who was captured in December 2001 along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. It was learned later that he had tried to enter the U.S. in August 2001 but was turned away by an immigration agent at the Orlando, Fla., airport. Mohamed Atta, ringleader of the Sept. 11 hijackers, was in the airport at the same time, officials have said. Schmidt said that to get him to talk, interrogators told him his mother and sisters were whores, forced him to wear a bra, forced him to wear a thong on his head, told him he was homosexual and said that other prisoners knew it. They also forced him to dance with a male interrogator, Schmidt added, and subjected him to strip searches with no security value, threatened him with dogs, forced him to stand naked in front of women and forced him onto a leash, to act like a dog.
Still, he said, "No torture occurred."
Sounds good to me. Next...
Al-Qahtani was provided food, water and medical care, he said. Together these techniques are degrading and abusive, he said. FBI agents raised their concerns about the techniques to Miller, and he should have monitored them, but he apparently took no action, Schmidt said."It is clear from the report that detainee mistreatment was not simply the product of a few rogue miltiary police in a night shift," said Carl Levin of Michigan, the top Democrat on the committee. Bush administration officials have sought to portray the excesses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq as just that.
Carl thinks Rove's behind it all. When he's not outing CIA agents.
But Armed Services Chairman John Warner, R-Va., said investigators found only three instances, out of thousands of interrogations, where military personnel violated Army policy. He did not immediately describe those incidents. Investigators determined that interrogators violated the Geneva Conventions and Army regulations three times. It was unclear from the aide's description what those instances were.
Yeah, that might be good to know.
The military investigation was conducted by Schmidt and Army Brig. Gen. John T. Furlow after the FBI agents' reports of abuse at Guantanamo surfaced last year. Craddock and the two investigators testifiedabout their findings at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing Wednesday. Previous investigations of prisoner abuse in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo have hurt U.S. standing worldwide.
I'll bet the British are a lot less pissed off about it then they were about two weeks ago.
No officer of Miller's rank or higher has been officially admonished in connection with any of the abuse scandals. Former Brig. Gen. Janice Karpinski, who was in charge of Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, is the highest-ranking officer to face punishment, despite calls from human rights groups to hold more senior leaders accountable.
Bushitler in chains doing the perp walk! The ultimate lefty wet dream!!!
According to investigators:
_A Female interrogator in one case smeared what she described as menstrual blood — it was fake — on a prisoner, but they recommended no further action on the allegation because it happened some time ago. The woman was disciplined, investigators said.
Heard it!
_A Navy officer threatened one high-value prisoner by saying he would go after his family. This was in violation of U.S. military law, the investigation found.
I guess there's no violation of Al Qaeda military law when these mooks pull that shit?
_Military interrogators impersonated FBI and State Department agents. This practice was stopped after the FBI complained.
Nah. You can tell when they're State Department agents. The ice cream they bring for the "detainee" hasn't melted yet.
_Interrogators improperly used duct tape on a detainee. An FBI agent said a prisoner was bound on the head with duct tape, his mouth covered, because he was chanting verses from the Quran.
Duct tape. Now a million and TWO uses.
_Interrogators used cold, heat, loud music and sleep deprivation on prisoners to break their will to resist interrogation. These techniques were approved at certain times at Guantanamo.
Heard it!
_Chaining a detainee to the floor in a fetal position was not authorized; however, the investigation could not confirm an FBI agent's allegation that detainees were left in this position for long periods.
Heard it!
The report said the military should review how it determines the legal status of prisoners at Guantanamo, and decide what forms of treatment and interrogation techniques will be allowed.
Cut them up for chum and feed them to the sharks?
Guantanamo holds 520 prisoners, while more than 230 others have been released or transferred to the custody of their home governments. Most were captured during the U.S. war in Afghanistan after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks; only a few have been charged with any crime. There have also been repeated accusations that American personnel at Guantanamo mishandled the Quran, the Muslim holy book. A separate Pentagon investigation found five such instances.
I wonder how many Korans we've blown up down there?
Posted by: tu3031 || 07/13/2005 13:18 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Bush administration officials have sought to portray the excesses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq as just that."

"That" being the excesses of a few rogue elements on a night shift. Which was proven to be exactly the case at Abu Ghraib, you fuckwit "journalists". You see, they held courts martial. It was in all the papers, honest. Just because comical, preposterous distortion and falsehood are now everday practices of "mainstream" media outlets and agencies doesn't mean we still shouldn't react to it.

And pathetic old Levin, desperate to find a pattern where the data didn't show one. What drives these nitwits?

Another gem, in two senses: "Previous investigations of prisoner abuse in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo have hurt U.S. standing worldwide."

What the idiot journalist meant to write was that allegations or "perceptions" of abuses have hurt US standing -- they can't even keep their own unfounded moronic "analysis" straight.

And that's just what it is -- unfounded ... unless someone can document that sort of sweeping statement for me. We DO know that false reports of abuses of Korans have hurt US standing, and that the blackout on the many many real positives in much of Iraq has hurt US standing, and that the adoption of an incomprehensible moral neutrality towards sickening and bizarre barbarism (beheading kidnap victims, blowing up groups of children) by US enemies while hyping every dubious negative from the battlefield have all hurt US standing.

But anyone with a clue about the real world knows that the inexplicable tales of US generosity and restraint in the treatment of its captives are, more than anything else, baffling to the bulk of Third World and Muslim observers, who are accustomed to medieval behavior by their own governments. But you'd have to have an IQ above 75 to stumble on that, I suppose.
Posted by: Verlaine in Iraq || 07/13/2005 13:56 Comments || Top||

#2  forcing him to wear a bra, dance with another man and behave like a dog

No wonder Andrew Sullivan is obsessed with Gitmo
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 15:04 Comments || Top||

#3  I suspect that in future operations all prisoners will be interrogated on the battlefield and taken into custody by the ally with whom we fight. There appears to be insufficient intelligence value to offset the cost of keeping prisoners and the LLL carping about their treatment. Turn Abu Ghraib over to the Iraqis and be done with it all.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 07/13/2005 15:36 Comments || Top||

#4  Mrs. Davis, I just finished a book by an interrogator in the Army reserves who worked at Kandahar and Bagram during the first year of the War in Afghanistan (called The Interrogators.) These people did some good work and are well trained. The techniques used on Mohamed al-Qahtani don't seem to me to be consistent with what is taught at Huachuca. The methods described also don't seem very likely to achieve any intelligence bonanza. Until I read this book I was unaware that there were professional interrogators in the army even to the extent of having a separate school to train them. I speculate that the thong on the head other acts aimed at belittling him or exploiting his homophobia weren't perpetrated by real interrogators. I would expect that the MP's ran amok yet again.
Fred or Old Spook could speak more authoritively on the subject.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 20:30 Comments || Top||


al-Timimi Sentenced to Va. Prison
A prominent Islamic scholar who exhorted his followers after the Sept. 11 attacks to join the Taliban and fight U.S. troops was sentenced Wednesday to life in prison. Ali al-Timimi of Fairfax was convicted in April of soliciting others to levy war against the United States, inducing others to aid the Taliban, and inducing others to use firearms in violation of federal law.
No virgins where he's going, just Virginians
The cleric addressed the court for 10 minutes before his sentencing. "I will not admit guilt nor seek the court's mercy. I do this simply because I am innocent," al-Timimi said. Assistant U.S. Attorney Gordon Kromberg said al-Timimi "hates the United States" and has called for its destruction. "He's allowed to do that in this country," Kromberg said. "He's not allowed to solicit treason. He deserves every day he gets." U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema said the evidence supported the mandatory life sentence. The judge had earlier left open the possibility that she would toss out some of the counts.
Unfortunately, this gives him a podium to recruit radicals in prison.
About 50 supporters were in court for al-Timimi, who waved to his wife as he was escorted from court.
"Hi, honey! I'm off to jug!"
She declined to comment.
"Oh, cheeze! Take me, Lord!"
Prosecutors portrayed al-Timimi, a native U.S. citizen, as having "rock star" status among his followers, who frequently heard his lectures at a small mosque in Falls Church. In particular, prosecutors said, the defendant wielded enormous influence among a group of young Muslim men in northern Virginia who played paintball games in 2000 and 2001. Authorities said they were a "Virginia jihad network" training for holy war around the globe. Nine members of the group have been convicted for their roles in the conspiracy, with prison terms ranging from three years to life. Al-Timimi's lawyers argued that their client merely suggested that Muslims may want to leave the United States after Sept. 11 because of the potential for a backlash against them.
"Because of the potential for backlash against Muslim, I suggest you go do terrible things to infidels. That'll make it all better."
But he was accused of telling a group of young Muslim men just days after the attack that an apocalyptic battle between Muslims and nonbelievers was at hand and that Muslims were obligated to engage in holy war. He told the group that defense of the Taliban was a requirement and that U.S. troops were a legitimate target, according to court testimony. Several of the men who heard Al-Timimi's speech traveled days later to Pakistan and began training with a militant Islamic group called Lashkar-e-Taiba, officials said. Some testified that their goal was to obtain training that would allow them to fight alongside the Taliban, though none actually made it to Afghanistan.
Posted by: too true || 07/13/2005 13:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I think it would be a terrible terrible terrible awful awful awful thing if this mook was found hung in his cell in about 6 months. Prison can be so degrading and dehumanizing...
Posted by: tu3031 || 07/13/2005 13:14 Comments || Top||

#2  Conviction of incitement charges ought to mandate solitary confinement.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 13:37 Comments || Top||

#3  I agree tu sure would be a shame.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 07/13/2005 13:38 Comments || Top||

#4  Think the prison pass on a 10 ft length of rope if I send it? I'll even pre-knot a noose on the thing for him, just in case he doesn't get it.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 13:42 Comments || Top||

#5  I don't know many details of this case, but those that are presented force me to ask how this is any different from what the leftist scumbag fuck Ward Churchill has been saying?
Posted by: Hyper || 07/13/2005 13:55 Comments || Top||

#6  I think it would be a terrible terrible terrible awful awful awful thing if Ward Churchill was found hung in a prison cell in about 6 months. Prison can be so degrading and dehumanizing...
Posted by: tu3031 || 07/13/2005 14:04 Comments || Top||

#7  And, as we all know, Fascisti screaming "Eichmanns!" terribly sensitive and brazen plagiarists artistic types have their lies spirits crushed by exposure confinement.

Okay, make it two 10 ft lengths of rope, though it would be greener if they shared the same one.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 14:09 Comments || Top||

#8  About 50 supporters were in court for al-Timimi

50 more names for the watch list.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 07/13/2005 14:39 Comments || Top||

#9  by the way, if you look at the guys mosque's website, where he lists the islamic scholars he follows, he specifically mentions Sayd Qutb and al- Mahdudi, the leading thinkers of contemporary islamic extremism.

These guys are NOT hidden folks. You dont need muslim informants to find out which mosques are extremist. These guys are in plain sight.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 07/13/2005 14:50 Comments || Top||

#10  This guy already has parishoners (or whatever) in the slammer to protect him. You can bet he will start proselytizing as soon as he is de-loused. Prisons probably generate more Muslims for the US than immigrants do.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 07/13/2005 14:58 Comments || Top||

#11  Need a good laugh?

This is the same Clinton-appointee judge who handled the bizarre Moussaui circus, U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema, ruling he could represent himself, question Ramzi Binalshibh, etc.

Here's a pretty good roundup of that, uh, um, trial.

Perhaps the ClueBat has paid her a few visits over the last 3.5 years and she's beginning to "get it": these cretins are dangerous. If so, then good for her - and us.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 14:59 Comments || Top||

#12  This is great news. I listened to NPR all afternoon but no mention of the Al-Timimi case. NPR was quick to highlight (often) the World Com CEO convicted of fraud who caught 25 years. I guess catching a life sentence in prison for solicitng treason against the United States somehow isn't news worthy. Oh, the banality of treason sayeth NPR.
Posted by: Mark Z. || 07/13/2005 18:26 Comments || Top||

#13  These guys are NOT hidden folks. You dont need muslim informants to find out which mosques are extremist. These guys are in plain sight.

Those guys aren't hidden. Others aren't hidden, but aren't as open about their opinions. Others are hiding, or are hidden by their community.

Remember (and I'm pretty sure I've pointed this out to you three times, maybe this time it'll sink in) that the spiritual advisor in the Lodi case was a popular speaker at mosques all around the US. Did he only speak at the radical ones? Does the Lodi mosque -- which hired him -- count as a radical mosque? Before he was exposed, did the Lodi mosque as openly express their support for jihad as al-Timimi and his crew?

But it's nice to hear you still don't think Muslims have to take a hand in policing their own community. At least you're consistent.

Wrong, but consistent.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 18:41 Comments || Top||

#14  He was the spiritual leader for the "paintball team" as I remember.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 20:33 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
7 Killed as Troops Clash With Extremist Forces in S. Philippines
Seven people had been killed in separate fighting in the southern Philippines, where security forces were pursuing members of Abu Sayyaf and Jemaah Islamiyah extremists, officials said yesterday. Two soldiers died after a gunman attacked a military outpost yesterday in Tacurong town of Sultan Kudarat province. The attacker was subsequently killed by pursuing soldiers, said Major Onting Alon, a spokesman for the army’s 6th Infantry Division. “The motive of the attack was still unknown,” he said. Alon said four Abu Sayyaf gunmen were also killed and three soldiers wounded in fierce fighting in the jungle village of Tamar in Talayan town, Maguindanao province.

The provinces of Sultan Kudarat and Maguindanao in the southern island of Mindanao are two of the strongholds of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), the biggest Philippine Muslim armed group fighting for an independent Islamic state . A military statement said the MILF, which is engaged in peace talks with the government, is providing valuable information on the location of the Abu Sayyaf rebels. MILF leaders have vowed to help weed out of extremists in Mindanao, who have been blamed for the bombings and kidnapping of foreign tourists and local businessmen and priests in the southern Philippines. The MILF last month ejected Janjalani’s group from its strongholds in Mindanao as part of confidence-building measures before peace talks with the Philippine government which will resume in Kuala Lumpur this month.
Posted by: Fred || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  “The motive of the attack was still unknown,”...

Someone late with the bribe money?
Posted by: Gleans Unalet1788 || 07/13/2005 7:46 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Baghdad suicide bombing kills 27
A suicide car bomber blew up his vehicle in a crowd of mostly children near U.S. troops in Baghdad on Wednesday, killing 27 people and wounding at least 67, an Interior Ministry spokesman said.

A duty policeman at Kindi Hospital said 25 bodies and 25 wounded had arrived there: "Most of them are children."

One U.S. soldier was among those killed, and three were among the injured, U.S. forces said.

Battalion commander Lieutenant Colonel Kevin Farrell told Reuters his men had cordoned off an area of houses near a highway for security sweeps when the bomber drove up a side alley. The bomber failed to pierce the military cordon and detonated his vehicle in a crowd of children and adults nearby.

"The scene was almost indescribable," he said. "People nearest the blast, some were literally obliterated on the scene. Multiple lacerations and traumatic amputations. At least nine people I saw were killed instantly in a most horrific fashion."

Sergeant Major Dan Huell said he was knocked to the ground.

"I jumped back up and ran to the blast site. Then you see all the screaming, hollering, injuries," he told Reuters. "The soldiers performed well ... The few that we could evacuate -- soldiers pulled them up, hand-carried a few of them. Little kids. Hand-carried into our vehicles. We got them treated."

A Reuters reporter at Kindi hospital saw at least a dozen coffins loaded into cars at the morgue.

"My son was lucky -- he was injured by a piece of shrapnel that lodged in his head. All the rest of his friends died," said Abu Mohammed, a grey bearded man in white robes.

A Reuters Television cameraman at the scene said the vehicle blew up near houses, reducing three to rubble. Women in the street screamed in anger and sorrow near pools of blood.#

"There can be no justification for the deliberate targeting of civilians -- much less children, who are our hope for the future," said U.N. chief spokesman Stephane Dujarric. "Nothing will be accomplished by today's killing of innocents."

The incident was similar to a triple car bomb attack near an American convoy in September last year in which 41 people were killed, 34 of them children.

U.S. forces say most suicide bombings are carried out by foreign Sunni Arab Islamists loyal to groups like al Qaeda's Iraq wing, led by Jordanian Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Washington said overnight that its forces had captured a senior Zarqawi lieutenant for the city of Baghdad.

General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told PBS television Monday's capture of Abu Abd Al-Aziz, whom he called Zarqawi's "main leader in Baghdad", was "going to hurt that operation of Zarqawi's pretty significantly".

Zarqawi's group confirmed Abu Abd al-Aziz was caught, but said in a Web statement that he was not a senior operative.

"Every time they arrest wanted brothers, they claim that he is a senior leader. Our brother Abu Abd Al-Aziz, may God free him, is only responsible for one of the squadrons in Baghdad," it said, adding that he had been seriously injured in the raid.

Suicide bombings, including car bombs and strikes by bombers on foot with explosive vests, have increased since the Shi'ite- and Kurdish-led government took power in April.

On Sunday, a bomber wearing an explosive vest killed about 20 people at an army recruiting station in Baghdad. A week earlier another bomber killed a similar number at a police recruiting station.

Police in Jalowla near the Iranian border said a blast that killed two people in a Sunni mosque there overnight may have been the result of a suicide bomber preparing an attack when his bomb blew up early.

Mounting violence is dividing Iraq on ethnic and sectarian fault lines at a time when U.S. forces are hoping to withdraw without leaving behind civil war.

While most victims of insurgent attacks are Shi'ites killed by Sunni bombers and gunmen, Sunnis say the mainly Shi'ite police respond by rounding up Sunni men and killing some.

In the Sbaa Abkar district of northern Baghdad, an angry crowd of mourners carried three coffins through the streets. They said the dead were among a group of 13 or 14 men arrested by police on Monday and found dead in a Baghdad morgue on Tuesday evening, showing signs of beatings and torture.

The Interior Ministry spokesman said the incident was being investigated, along with a separate incident that sparked demonstrations on Tuesday.

In that incident, denounced by Sunni political groups, 12 Sunni building site labourers from the Zaidan village on the western outskirts of the capital were taken from a hospital by police and died, apparently suffocated in van parked in hot sun.

Angry Shi'ites marched on Monday after a Shi'ite family of nine was murdered in their beds by gunmen.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 07/13/2005 16:14 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Go insurgents.... Yeah....
Down with Bush......
Posted by: plainslow || 07/13/2005 21:52 Comments || Top||

#2  I was gonna hold my breath, waiting for the outpouring of Islamic outrage, MSM spewing and LLL howling....but then I decided I'd rather live. Nothing says better how subhuman our opponents in this worldwide struggle to maintain civilization are. I hope we are only forced to assume some of their tactics, but will not apologize for that necessity. Actions have consequences, and inactions do as well.....
Posted by: Frank G || 07/13/2005 22:57 Comments || Top||

#3  "There can be no justification for the deliberate targeting of civilians -- much less children, who are our hope for the future," said U.N. chief spokesman Stephane Dujarric.

And there you have it kids, the Worthless UN Quote Of The Day.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 07/13/2005 23:05 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
Tales from the Crossfire Gazette
Sarbahara leader killed in RAB ‘crossfire’ in Barisal
July 12: An alleged underground operative was killed in an "encounter" between the Rapid Action Battalion (RAB) and outlawed Sarbaharas at Brahmandia village under Babuganj upazila of the district early this morning. The dead was identified as Sultan Mia, 44, an alleged terrorist and regional leader of the Kamrul faction of the outlawed Sarbahara Party. RAB claimed that Sultan was an accused in about 17 cases of murder, rape, looting, and money extortion lodged with Babuganj, Uzirpur and Gournadi police stations. The "crossfire" killing of Sultan caused mixed reaction among the locals with some people celebrating and others staging protest against the RAB operation, sources said.
According to Captain Iftekhar, commander of RAB, Barisal unit, Sultan Mia of Babuganj and Imam Hossain of Gournadi, two Sarbahara operatives were arrested last Saturday from Hotel Jamuna at Mahakhali area of Dhaka when they were holding in a secret meeting there.
Hotel Jamuna - where the elite meet to eat plot
Later the two were taken to Barisal and interrogated for three days at the local camp of RAB.
Oooo, sounds painful

On the basis of their "confessional statements" they were taken to Babuganj and Gournadi on Tuesday by two RAB teams for recovery of arms and ammunition.
The same old story, yet it never fails to amuse
Sources said, when Sultan Mia was taken to Brahmandia village under Babuganj, his associates led by Kamal Hossain attacked RAB members and tried to snatch him from their custody.
Got a name for one of the attackers, that's new
Sultan was killed in the "encounter" that followed, he added.
That hasn't changed..
But the attackers managed to flee from the spot after a half-an-hour-long gun battle.
...and neither has the "flee" without a trace...
Later RAB members recovered a shutter gun, two rounds of SMG bullet and two empty cartridges.
...and recovering the same shutter gun, ol' Betsy
Abdul Malek, a RAB constable, was injured during the ‘encounter’ and was admitted to Barisal Police Hospital.
Bullet wound? Hang nail? Strained back from lifting dead body out of patrol car before the "encounter"?
Local people brought out a procession and distributed sweets hailing the RAB operation after hearing the news of Sultan’s killing, sources said.
"Hurray! Sultan's dead! Sweets for everyone!"
The other RAB team with Imam Hossain went to Purbo Adhuna village of Sharikal union under Gournadi upazila and according to his "confession" the team recovered a shutter gun and a Chinese axe from his house.
No "encounter" for him. Yet.

Haji Abdul Latif Mridha, father and Jahangir Hossain Mridha, younger brother of Imam claimed that the arms recovery was a drama staged by the RAB as an eyewash.
Boy, nothing gets past Haji
Local people there brought out a procession protesting the arrest of Imam by RAB and demanding his immediate release.
It may be mentioned that locally popular Imam Hossain was defeated by his rival in the last UP chairman election by a narrow margin. RAB sources said, after interrogation, Imam would be handed over to Gournadi police station.

Six muggers killed, 5 cops injured in fire fights
Six unidentified muggers were killed and six people including five cops were injured in two separate incidents of shootout between police and armed gangsters in the city’s Kazipara at Mirpur and Lalmatia at Mohammadpur yesterday. Three unidentified robbers were killed and a member of police was injured in an exchange of fire at Lalmatia while three other muggers were killed and five persons injured, including four cops, in another shootout between the gangsters and police yesterday.
Busy day

In the first incident, police and hospital sources said, a gang of five unidentified muggers forced their way into the house of one Jalal at house no 5/7, block-E, Lalmatia under Mohammadpur police station at about 8: 15 last night. As the robbers were trying to loot the house, the inmates shouted for help and a patrol team of Mohammadpur Thana police rushed to the spot. Sensing the presence of police the muggers tried to shoot their way out,
"You'll never take us alive, coppers!"
but the police personnel returned fire.
"Works for us"
As a result two muggers were killed on the spot and another died on the way to hospital. "Ouch...rosebud..rosebud..rosebud "An SI was also hit by bullets during the shootout. Two members of the gang of muggers managed to flee the spot. Police recovered a 9mm pistol, a revolver and two machetes from the spot.
The bodies of the three muggers were sent to the morgue of Dhaka Medical College Hospital (DMCH) for autopsy.
"He's dead, Jim. So's he and that guy over there."
In a similar incident, a patrol team of Mirpur Thana police challenged a gang of muggers numbering seven or eight for their suspicious movement at Baishbari, Masjid Lane at Kazipara in Mirpur at about 4.30pm yesterday. Sensing danger the muggers hurled bombs and opened fire on the police personnel.
"Hark! I sense danger, time to hurl!"
Two muggers were killed on the spot and another was critically injured in the exchange of fire.
Gee, that sounds a awful lot like the last story
Two policemen and a bystander received bomb injuries during the clash. But the rest of the muggers managed to flee the scene.
"Feet, don't fail us now!"
Police recovered a pistol loaded with three rounds of bullet, two machetes and two bombs from the spot. The bodies of the muggers were sent to the Dhaka Medical College Hospital morgue for autopsy.
"What, more deaders? Dammit, we'll be working all night, again"
The injured policemen were taken to the Rajarbagh Police Lines Hospital while the injured mugger and the passerby rushed to the Emergency Department of Dhaka Medical College Hospital (DMCH) where the attending doctor declared the robber dead.
"He's dead, Jim"
When contacted DMP (Dhaka Metropolitan Police) commissioner Mizanur Rahman told The Independent that at least 12 teams of different intelligence agencies fanned out across the city and were conducting block raids in different areas to nab the rest of the criminals who fled the spots. No cases were filed with the respective police stations in these connections till this report was filed at about 10.30pm yesterday.
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 09:55 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  RAB claimed that Sultan was an accused in about 17 cases of murder, rape, looting, and money extortion...

"About 17, sarge? Sure you don't want like 20 or 25?"
"Nah. He's dead. About 17 should do it. Screw doing all that extra paperwork. "
Posted by: tu3031 || 07/13/2005 10:55 Comments || Top||

#2  his associates led by Kamal Hossain attacked RAB members

I'll be watching for the more-or-less untimely demise of Mr. Hossain in an upcoming issue of the Crossfire Gazette...
Posted by: Seafarious || 07/13/2005 12:00 Comments || Top||

#3  If I were an agent for Mutual of Chittagong, I'd make damn sure I wasn't selling any policies that had a crossfire rider. The actuarial mortality tables in Bangladesh have got to be nuts...10% cancer, 15% heart disease, 60% crossfire accident, etc., etc...
Posted by: WhiteCollarRedneck || 07/13/2005 13:40 Comments || Top||

#4  The shuttergun clause alone carries like a 50% premium penalty.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 13:44 Comments || Top||

#5  Sensing danger the muggers hurled bombs...

OK, maybe I've lead a sheltered life, but how do you mug someone with a bomb? Knife, sure? Bare hands, OK. Gun, perhaps? But a bomb?

"Hand over your wallet or I light the fuse!"
Posted by: Jackal || 07/13/2005 16:08 Comments || Top||


Gunmen kill fourth Afghan cleric
Suspected Taleban militants have shot dead a pro-government cleric in southern Afghanistan, the fourth such killing in the past two months.
Maulvi Saleh Mohammad was shot by gunmen on a motorcycle in Lashkargar, the capital of Helmand province. A leading cleric in Paktika province and two in Kandahar have also been killed in recent weeks. Separately, the US military said it had killed 17 suspected militants in two days of clashes in the south.
Maulvi Saleh Mohammad was the head of the powerful clerics' council, or ulema, in Helmand. No one has yet said they carried out the attack, but Haji Mohammed Wali, spokesman for the provincial governor, blamed Taleban fighters. "He was on his way home from the mosque after prayers and he was shot and martyred by two gunmen on motorcycles," Mr Wali said. "The attackers fled the area."
The killing follows the murder of leading cleric Agha Jan and his wife in eastern Paktika province last Friday. On 3 July, Maulvi Mohammad Musbah was shot dead in Kandahar and in late May gunmen there killed another supporter of President Hamid Karzai, Maulvi Abdullah Fayaz.
Taleban spokesman Mullah Abdul Latif Hakimi said its fighters carried out the three attacks.
On Wednesday, the US military said it had killed 17 suspected insurgents in two days of fighting in southern Zabul province. Six more suspected militants were captured and 23 other people were being questioned, a US military statement said. The fighting took place in mountainous terrain close to where the US said it killed more than 70 suspected militants in fighting last month.
Posted by: Steve || 07/13/2005 09:03 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  That elusive creature---moderate Muslem, becomes rarer all the time.
Posted by: gromgoru || 07/13/2005 10:44 Comments || Top||

#2  Shooting Imams..... I'm SOOOO ambivalent....
Posted by: Spuper Glogum1099 || 07/13/2005 12:34 Comments || Top||

#3  this is what happens to imams who speak out against the AQ and the Taliban. Is it any wonder so many keep silent?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 07/13/2005 13:07 Comments || Top||

#4  And in New York and Virginia and DC? In London and Rome and Paris? Grind up another pound, there, cone bottom drip #7, please, the "It's Really Great Shit" supply's getting a little low.

Sheesh.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 13:16 Comments || Top||

#5  it obviously takes less courage to speak out in NY than in Kabul. Probably why more do so here, afaik. and no, Im not keeping a database on it.

Posted by: liberalhawk || 07/13/2005 13:51 Comments || Top||

#6  On a clear disk you can seek forever.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 14:04 Comments || Top||

#7  hat tip, Winds of change

'The Taliban was not so agreeable. That night the fighters sent a message to the villagers: "We want this infidel." A firm reply from the village chief, Shinah, shot back. "The American is our guest, and we won't give him up as long as there's a man or a woman left alive in our village." As a precaution, the villagers moved the injured commando out of Gulab's house and hid him in a stable overnight, until it was safe for Gulab to make the six-hour trek down to the U.S. base at Asadabad and report that the SEAL - by then the subject of an intense search - was alive. Sometime later, Gulab went back to his village and then returned to Asadabad with the commando, this time reuniting the wounded and weary SEAL with his jubilant comrades."'
Posted by: liberalhawk || 07/13/2005 15:19 Comments || Top||

#8  Thanks for the story, Liberalhawk. That's one village that has guaranteed its place in Paradise.

Oh... if you have a moment you might want to take a look at some of yesterday's threads. ;-)
Posted by: trailing wife || 07/13/2005 20:06 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
More Innocents Sacrificed to Moloch
What sort of bloodthirsty god demands this sort of sacrifice?
At least 26 Iraqis, almost all of them children, have been killed by a car bomb in south-eastern Baghdad. A US soldier is also said to have died in the blast. Another three US soldiers are reported to have been injured. A car laden with explosives drove past a US army vehicle and blew up as troops handed out sweets, a witness said.
Posted by: 11A5S || 07/13/2005 09:02 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What can you say of people who can't even play fair with their own children. Worse than animals.
Posted by: Tkat || 07/13/2005 9:14 Comments || Top||

#2  Men do not do things like this, these animals are subhuman, thus not entitled to human rights. Where is the ACLU, where are People for the American Way, where is Amnesty Intl. where are all the people who berate us over everything in the world? Not a word against these people will you hear, BBC won't even call them terrorists, they prefer "fighters", as per their company policy. I'm sure the liberals all over the world will blame this on the soldiers giving out sweets, the muslims will deny that the bomber had any ties to islam, and Ted Kennedy will call for Rumsfelds resignation once again.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 07/13/2005 9:21 Comments || Top||

#3  Any captured foreign Jihadi, make that any captured Jihadi, once subjected to blow-torch interrogations, should be impaled along the roads of Iraq until every major roadway is lined with the impaled bodies of these pieces of human excrement. Until we go "Roman" on these assholes, we will continue to be subjected to these barbaric attacks.

Perhaps only after an ACLU or MOVEON.ORG pinic gathering is shredded by a homicide-bomber will these morons get it. Somehow, I doubt it but there's always hope ... uh, errr, ummm ... I mean hope that they "get it" not hope for a bombing of ACLU or MOVEON.ORG types ... I mean ... I would NEVER wish something like that on the Left ... really ... I mean it (smirking wickedly with my hand behind my back and fingers crossed).
Posted by: Jick Thaimble2985 || 07/13/2005 9:33 Comments || Top||

#4  But.... but... but....

Were any Korans desecrated? That is whats imporatant.
Posted by: Mainstream Media || 07/13/2005 9:47 Comments || Top||

#5  One important element that is missing from the WOT is for us to impose meaning to such acts. Such fanatics should *not* be called "Moslem fanatics"; they should be called "Satan worshippers". Along with a psychological campaign to get out the meme that such acts are "acts of worship" to Satan, it would have a profound effect on such people. That is, every fanatic would have to face the question, "Is what I am doing for Allah, or is it for Satan?" This could have a devastating effect on their morale. And even if their Imam told them otherwise, imagine if this would only cast doubts as to whether the Imam is a servant of Allah, or a secret priest to Satan!
Posted by: Anonymoose || 07/13/2005 10:01 Comments || Top||

#6  NYT headline.
Pentagon sweets kill Iraqi children.
Posted by: gromgoru || 07/13/2005 10:35 Comments || Top||

#7  #1.
Hey Tkat, lions do it to other lions offspring, no problema.
Posted by: gromgoru || 07/13/2005 10:40 Comments || Top||

#8  Anonymoose, if there were a denizen of Darkness and this entity devised a deception on a mass scale--a creed masquerading as religion, he would have called it "Submission".
Posted by: Sobiesky || 07/13/2005 10:41 Comments || Top||

#9  Why don't we all email copies of this article to the MSM and all the democratic buffoons like Kennedy and Durbin and ask them to comment?

This is a classic example of how the news is being manipulated by the MSM. More stories like this would have a vastly different effect on the public opinion
Posted by: SockPuppetofDoom2 || 07/13/2005 10:58 Comments || Top||

#10  Such fanatics should *not* be called "Moslem fanatics"; they should be called "Satan worshippers".

Absolutely not. Do not let their supporters, cheerleaders and funders off that easily.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 11:19 Comments || Top||

#11  Any heartburn with Islam as a whole should be addressed separately. The important thing is to get the terrorists stopped ASAP. To sew the seeds of doubt, the paranoid conspiracy theory, could have a paralytic effect on violence-based organizations. They thrive on the "us and them" attitude. If you can convince them that their most fanatical might actually be followers of the *evil one*, and leading them on a path to hell, it could really rattle their chains. That is why I suggest a propaganda campaign: anyone who even talks of violence might be one of "the evil ones". How effective is a criminal organization that suspects that one of their own is a police undercover agent?
Posted by: Anonymoose || 07/13/2005 11:42 Comments || Top||

#12  You don't get it.

The jihadis are killing because they're told it's their religious duty. The only way to stop them is to make sure they're not told that anymore.

If you can convince them that their most fanatical might actually be followers of the *evil one*, and leading them on a path to hell, it could really rattle their chains. That is why I suggest a propaganda campaign: anyone who even talks of violence might be one of "the evil ones"

Your ignorance is showing. Mohammed is revered as the "perfect man" in Islam, and his life was as bloodstained as any other 4th century warlord. They won't buy that calls to violence are evil, because a lot of those calls to violence are in Mohammed's own words.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 12:06 Comments || Top||

#13  RC, Right. However, it may work to separate jihadis from the rest.

There are essentially 2 ways how to deal with 'explosive' nature of Islam, that at some point would be on the table because there would be no choice, it would be a matter of survival.

1. Eliminate Islam with most of its adherents (this one is rather unpalatable)
2. Replace Islam with something benign.

I would prefer #2, but how to get there, that is a nut that no one cracked yet.
Posted by: Sobiesky || 07/13/2005 12:30 Comments || Top||

#14  However, it may work to separate jihadis from the rest.

Still won't work. We can call their works Satanic, but they won't listen to us.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 13:46 Comments || Top||

#15  RC, I s'posse you've tried and thus you're an ultimate authority on this. ;-)

There is, a small shift, though, perceptible in Iraq. The regular Iraqis do not see jihadis as satanists, but certainly do see them as criminals.
Posted by: Sobiesky || 07/13/2005 14:08 Comments || Top||

#16  RC, I would agree that someone literate in Islam might reach that conclusion, but the vast majority of these villains are as utterly ignorant of their own religion as they are of anything else. That is no praise for Islam, just that they are dirt dog ignorant. And as such, they are very susceptible to base level psychological manipulation. They are terribly superstitious and stupidly credulous, which is why they are such tools in the first place. But their philosophy is also extremely fragile. They can be "turned" with a short conversation, which disrupts their indoctrination (one of the reasons many suicide recruits are kept isolated until used). By exposing them to a psychological 'broadcast' campaign *early*, before they have become mental serfs to some violent psycho in a madrassa, will prevent them from being as easily taken up in the first place. All over Pakistan, there should be a discreet but ubiquitous propaganda barrage that there are "Satanists posing as madrassa teachers", who purpose it is to send Moslems to their death and damnation, not as martyrs, but as lost souls chewed in the burning mouth of the evil one. And the only way to tell them apart from *real* teachers is that they try to tell you to do things that your "heart" tells you are wrong. Acts of hatred and violence against the innocent, acts of murder and sodomy "that are condemned in the Holy Koran". Such false Imams are demons in disguise who use black magic to speak from the Koran without being instantly destroyed for their blasphemy. Many seem like the holiest of men, and other demons will swear that they are true believers. But an innocent, who has neither been corrupted by demons nor received teachings from the Holy Koran, might see through their deception before he can pervert their spirit, etc. I know it is silly to an educated person, but we are dealing with some real ignoramuses, here.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 07/13/2005 14:10 Comments || Top||

#17  I'd offer that for the average Shi'a Iraqi it's bound to be a mix of Sunni jihadis killing Shi'a sheep plus a sensible desire to want an end to wanton killing near his home.

To a Sunni, it's a jumble of shameful loss of status, hate, fear, insanity, dementia, barbarism, and satisfaction that it's the hated Shi'a who are doing most of the dying. It probably doesn't hurt that a bunch of foreigners are willing to do the dirty work.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 14:19 Comments || Top||

#18  was that the pot candy they were giving out now

I like the idea of a psychological campaign. They are so uneducated it just might work.
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 14:24 Comments || Top||

#19  Consider what the qu'uran teaches about non-Muzzies. You are to be avoided, never befriended, never trusted. What makes anyone think we can run a psych campaign on them? Think about it. They are going to listen to their imams and their lifelong indoctrination.

I spent almost 4 years straight as "friend" to a small circle of Saudis - in the most "liberal" and pro-Western environment in the Magic Kingdom: ARAMCO - and they never changed in any way other than to be more outspoken and critical over time. These were their best, college educated, track record of getting along with the expats (the total freakazoid zealots were weeded out or transferred out of Dhahran), all of them had spent at least 1 year-long work assignment in the US or UK, all semi-capable of actually performing a job, the future non-Royal Saudi stars. The ONLY time there was a moderation was immediately after 9/11, which lasted about 2 or 3 months. In that period they were more sympathetic... then the identities of 14 of the boomers were confirmed to be Saudi. If you recall there was some official Saudi blather about stolen passports and other lame shit. When that evaporated, things reverted - Muzzy First. Smiling outside, despising inside.

You're fooling yourselves to think that some simple clever trick will overcome a lifetime of intolerant indoctrination. Not. Gonna. Happen.
Posted by: .com || 07/13/2005 14:40 Comments || Top||

#20  I guess to dabble in wishful thinking sigh....
Posted by: Jan || 07/13/2005 14:54 Comments || Top||

#21  This kind of psyop won't overcome years of indoctrination as Muslims, but that's not the goal. It may be enough to reduce the number pulled into the radical fringe willing to do suicide operations on civilians. I would guess none of your old colleagues ever got that far gone, .com. We can live with their bad attitude, it's the extreme cases that have to be dealt with or prevented when possible.
Posted by: VAMark || 07/13/2005 15:39 Comments || Top||

#22  Sobiesky:
There is, a small shift, though, perceptible in Iraq. The regular Iraqis do not see jihadis as satanists, but certainly do see them as criminals.

Yep. And I'm thrilled to hear it.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 18:43 Comments || Top||

#23  VAMark:
It may be enough to reduce the number pulled into the radical fringe willing to do suicide operations on civilians.

*sigh*

There is no such thing as a civilian under Muslim law.

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD93205

There is the ummah, the Dar al Islam. Then there are the kaffir, the Dar al Harb -- the world of war.

What does that tell you?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 07/13/2005 18:46 Comments || Top||

#24  I always try to understand them.

Why do these people hate cars? Oh its probably the oil thing.

Now lets all have one big group hug with lots of flowers.
Posted by: flash91 || 07/13/2005 19:48 Comments || Top||

#25  Anonymoose: When this whole 9/11 thing began, and the US attacked Afghanistan and Iraq, I had doubts about the entire Allah/God thing. I prayed about it, for months. I finally got an answer: "I am the Lord thy God - These are not My Children". It's not propaganda. Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits". Look at the fruits of Islam: fornication with boys and animals; the wife isn't a partner and helpmate, but a slave; there is no LOVE in the message, only hate; Mohammed is the "last prophet" - as if God is going to hamstring Himself that way; the Koran contradicts all but the First Commandment; Jesus is seen as a major prophet, but His words are ignored by Islam, and a thousand other contradictions. Islam, especially Wahabbi Islam, is worship of Satan at his most extreme.

When the AntiChrist arrives upon this earth, he will be a Muslim.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 07/13/2005 21:13 Comments || Top||

#26  Agreed, O.P.! Hear, hear!
Posted by: BA || 07/13/2005 21:43 Comments || Top||

#27  Remember that statement by Colonel Kurtz?
Methinks we may have the same evil here.

"I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God... the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment. Because it's judgment that defeats us."
Posted by: tipper || 07/13/2005 22:52 Comments || Top||


Terror Networks & Islam
‘From Madrid to London: Al-Qaeda Exports the War in Iraq to Europe’
Very interesting piece by an israeli site with high standards; apparently, Italy could be next; see link for further references.
By Reuven Paz *
* Director and Editor of the Project for the Research of Islamist Movements (PPISM).

Introduction

The bombings in London 's public transportation system on July 7 th 2005 are too similar to the March 11 th 2004 Madrid explosions, consisting of 10 explosive devices aboard four commuter trains during rush hour to ignore the possible connection. The nature of the attacks; the lack of the element of martyrdom; the two declarations of responsibility by “Al-Qaeda's Secret Group in Europe,” and by the “Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades;” and, above all, the clear link to the Islamist insurgency in Iraq, all—point at a Moroccan/Algerian cell or grouping that is carrying out the global strategy and doctrines of Al-Qaeda. Whereas the orders and the operational planning did not necessarily stem from the Al-Qaeda leadership in Afghanistan , Pakistan or elsewhere, the strategy did.

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 07/13/2005 08:23 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Idiotic , what proves he has that the strategy wouldnt be made even earlier without Iraq?
Posted by: Hupomoque Spoluter7949 || 07/13/2005 13:57 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Pentagon says key Zarqawi operative caught in Iraq
American forces have captured a key operative in the organization of Iraq's al Qaeda leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the top U.S. general said on Tuesday. Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the PBS program "The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer" that Monday's capture of Abu Abd Al-Aziz, whom he called Zarqawi's "main leader in Baghdad," was "going to hurt that operation of Zarqawi's pretty significantly." Myers said Al-Aziz was picked up "on the battlefield," but provided no other details.

A defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, added, "When you look at the picture of the Zarqawi network of the different elements that are known to exist, he's the second-in-command of the Baghdad element and has the reputation of being the 'emir of Baghdad' for Zarqawi." The official said American forces were involved in the operation that snared Al-Aziz, but was unable to say whether Iraqi government forces played a role. Al Qaeda Organization for Holy War in Iraq, led by the Jordanian-born Zarqawi, has carried out some of the deadliest attacks against U.S. forces, the Iraqi government and Shi'ite Muslims in Iraq as part of a tenacious insurgency.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sounds like the Wolves might have been in on it. Good work everyone. I say we use the guy as a Human Urinal Disinfectant Cake™ I get first dibs, heh heh.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 07/13/2005 2:02 Comments || Top||

#2  Rex, you should be compensated...for designing something useful out of the utterly f*cking useless.
Posted by: Red Dog || 07/13/2005 3:17 Comments || Top||

#3  Yeah, yeah , yeah, another operative, we know. How many operatives does this asshole have anyway?
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 07/13/2005 9:40 Comments || Top||

#4  #3 Yeah, yeah , yeah, another operative, we know. How many operatives does this asshole have anyway?
Posted by: bigjim-ky

Well bigjim, no matter how many he has, he has one less that is free to kill children.
Posted by: Richard || 07/13/2005 9:47 Comments || Top||

#5  Interesting how these "key operatives" are caught alive rather than going down in a blaze of glory, unlike their cohort of junior flunkie bombers.
Posted by: ET || 07/13/2005 10:54 Comments || Top||

#6  I dunno about you guys, but I'm beginning to wonder about the reasons for using suicide bombers. Sure, it's showy, but it's also a way of destroying evidence. After all, if the guy's dead, he can't talk about it later, and maybe provide a lead back to the terrorists. Why would there be a need for suiciders? Is this primarily a security measure? If so, what does that say about the numbers and depth of the terrorist teams?
Posted by: Omosing Ching6582 || 07/13/2005 12:38 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
Kashmir Korpse Kount
SRINAGAR — Eight militants and an army soldier were killed in fresh clashes in Jammu and Kashmir, army and police officials said yesterday. Indian troops pursuing Kashmiri rebels shot dead three militants in northern Baramulla district late Sunday, army spokesman Vijay Batra said. One of the slain militants was identified as Tanveer Abbasi, whose alias is Gazali. “Gazali was serving as chief financial controller of the Harkat-ul-Mujahedin militant group,” said Batra .
Another #3 honcho takes a dirt nap.
Other rebels were killed in clashes in Pulwama, Rajouri and Doda areas where one soldier was also killed.
Posted by: Steve White || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  #3 - Such an unlucky number!
Posted by: BigEd || 07/13/2005 0:29 Comments || Top||

#2  You are number three.

I am not a number! I am a free man slave to Allah!
Posted by: Jackal || 07/13/2005 10:02 Comments || Top||

#3  Gunbattle between army, infiltrators in Kashmir

Wednesday, 13 July , 2005, 10:46
Srinagar: Security forces challenged a large group of infiltrators and are engaged in a gunbattle with them in the snow-bound Gurez mountains in Jammu and Kashmir, a defence spokesman said in Srinagar on Wednesday.

Troops guarding the border noticed a group of militants from across the border sneaking into the Indian side on Tuesday evening, he said, adding that they were allowed to infiltrate into the area in Baramulla district before engaging them.

There was no report of any casualty so far and the encounter was still going on, the spokesman said.
Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 12:15 Comments || Top||

#4  LoC firing on, 15 militants killed

SRINAGAR, JULY 13: The Army today claimed to have killed 15 of the 35-odd terrorists who had tried to cross the LoC near the Gurez sector in Jammu and Kashmir yesterday. Army officers said that operations against the heavily-armed group were still on.

According to Army spokesperson, Col V K Batra, ‘‘The operation is taking time as militants have split into small groups and are hiding at an altitude of 14,000 feet. The operation started on Tuesday morning after troops got specific inputs about the infiltration.’’

Batra added that harsh weather conditions were hampering the operation. ‘‘The troops are chasing the militants, but other details will be available after weather improves,’’ he said. The militants were spotted by the troops of 20 Punjab near Kabuli Gai and asked to lay down their arms but they retaliated.

Sources said some of the militants may have crossed over to Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) under fog cover by now. ‘‘The forest area is engulfed by clouds and there is a likelihood that some militants might have managed to escape to PoK,’’ said an officer.

Meanwhile, Inspector General of Police, Javid Makahdoomi said the infiltrators have taken shelter in the mountains near Gurez. ‘‘The area is like a natural concrete bunker and encounter is in progress,’’ he said.

This is the second infiltration bid in Gurez sector since the fresh round of India-Pakistan talks began, and the 14th in the Valley.

The attempt comes a day after Foreign Minister Natwar Singh said militant camps were active across the LoC. The Army has also increased the level of patrolling along the frontier fence to intercept militants from reaching their “receiving areas” from where they are guided towards villages by local commanders.
Posted by: john || 07/13/2005 20:27 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Jordan indicts 7 on charges of recruiting militants for Iraq
The military prosecutor on Tuesday indicted seven suspects on charges of recruiting militants to fight US forces in Iraq and referred the case to the State Security Court (SSC), judicial sources said. Prosecutor Fawwaz Atoum “indicted seven suspects and referred them to the SSC on charges of carrying out activity not approved by the government, which jeopardised Jordan's relations with another country,” a judicial source said. According to a copy of the charge sheet obtained by AFP, the seven suspects recruited militants in Jordan and then send them to Syria, where an individual identified as Abu Janna provided them with military training. Abu Janna also helped the recruits infiltrate Iraq “to fight American forces and Iraqi policemen,” the charge sheet said.

The seven suspects, aged between 23-33, were identified as Ziad Horani, Khaled Sarqush, Yildar Abdullah, Ashraf Yashqawi, Hassan Agha, Mrad Muheissin and Abdelrahman Zahiri. A date for the trial has not been announced but if found guilty the suspects could be sentenced up to 15 years hard labour, judicial sources said.
Posted by: Fred || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hopefully, we can get a copy of their fingerprints for when they escape.
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 0:21 Comments || Top||


Egypt vows Dire Revenge™
The Egyptian government vowed to avenge the slaying of its top envoy in Iraq as it tried to fend off sharp criticism at home Tuesday, including accusations it didn't do enough to save the diplomat killed by Al Qaeda-linked militants. Egypt's top pro-government newspapers carried banner headlines quoting President Hosni Mubarak saying, "Egypt does not forget its sons," and promising to take care of the family of Ihab Sherif. They showed prominent photos of the foreign minister meeting with Sherif's wife, wearing a white veil and black dress.

On Egyptian television on Monday, Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit vowed to "take vengeance on the killers of the head of the Egyptian mission in Iraq." Though he did not specify how Egypt could take action, it was an unusually aggressive statement for a government that has refrained from vocal criticism of the insurgency in Iraq. Sherif's slaying, announced by a statement last week by Al Qaeda in Iraq, stunned many in Egypt, where opposition to the US-led invasion of Iraq is high. Al Qaeda in Iraq said it abducted the envoy and condemned him to death as an "apostate" because his government intended to install a full ambassador in Baghdad as a sign of support for Iraq's new government.

Mubarak's government has faced an onslaught of criticism in the opposition press, denouncing it for knuckling under US pressure to send an ambassador despite the continuing violence in Iraq and accusing it of not doing enough to save Sherif's life. The Araby and Osboa weekly newspapers proclaimed in red-letter headlines that "the government bears sole responsibility for the spilling of Sherif's blood." "The Egyptian foreign minister refused to cut his visit to Libya, he dealt with the issue in an irresponsible way, the Egyptian government refused to declare a state of mourning or even half-mast the flags and all what it did was four lines lamenting the martyr," Mustafa Bakri, editor-in-chief of Osboa said in a front-page editorial.

With Mubarak heading into September presidential elections — in which he will face competition for the first time — his government has tried to turn off the heat over the diplomat's slaying. It proclaimed Sherif a "martyr" — even though Al Qaeda in Iraq did not release a video showing the diplomat's killing and his body has yet to be found. Mubarak spoke to Sherif's family twice. "I am personally taking care of the family of Sherif," government papers quoted him as saying, and Abou Gheit held a strongly publicised meeting with his wife to express condolences.

Aboul Gheit also took pains to point out that Sherif had not been appointed ambassador in Iraq and that Egypt does not have a full embassy there. Sherif's credentials, with the title of chief of mission, "prove the falsity of what has been said by some concerning an upgrade in the level of representation and the establishment of an Egyptian embassy in Iraq and the conduct of full diplomatic relations," Aboul Gheit told the state-run Middle East News Agency. "These are nothing more than inflammatory and can't be characterised as truthful or ethical," he added. Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari announced during an international conference in Brussels last month that Egypt had decided to become the first Arab country to send a full ambassador to Iraq under the new government elected in January. Though Egypt never confirmed or denied the announcement, Aboul Gheit was among the delegates at the conference and voiced no objection to Zebari remarks. Many believed that Sherif, sent to Baghdad in early June, was paving the way for a full ambassador posting.
Posted by: Fred || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Why don't we immediately hand over any Egyptian AQ members that he have in GITMO so that they can get to it?
Posted by: Super Hose || 07/13/2005 0:24 Comments || Top||

#2  Gotta love the moral rot, racism, and barbarism in full flower. The Egyptian government, not the psycho killers, are responsible for the murder. The government "knuckled under" to US pressure to, you know, have representation with an embattled, elected government in an Arab state under attack by ruthless psycho killers. It makes me sick to think even one cent of US taxpayers' money goes to subsidize the sewer on the Nile.
Posted by: Verlaine in Iraq || 07/13/2005 1:00 Comments || Top||

#3  Egypt: so what's it going to be?
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler || 07/13/2005 1:50 Comments || Top||

#4  The new mameluke spirit?
Posted by: Tkat || 07/13/2005 8:53 Comments || Top||

#5  Hmmmm

"Aboul Gheit also took pains to point out that Sherif had not been appointed ambassador in Iraq and that Egypt does not have a full embassy there. Sherif's credentials, with the title of chief of mission, "prove the falsity of what has been said by some concerning an upgrade in the level of representation and the establishment of an Egyptian embassy in Iraq and the conduct of full diplomatic relations," "

Sounds like a surrender to me. Lets review first the Egyption gov says they will send full ambasodor then Al Queda kills the lead scout result Egypt Surrenders and denies ever placing a real ambasodor to Iraq. Surrender Surrender. The swift ""take vengeance on the killers of the head of the Egyptian mission in Iraq" I wont hold my breath. Although if they wanted to help and actually be a leader in the Arab world for the good and lead the Arab world into the 21st century they could offer a military detachment to help the fledgling Iraqi gov police the Anbar province help thier Arab brothers get a huge portion of the infedel occupiers out of Iraq. but in Reality they are part of the problem not the solution all beit a less dangerous part.
Posted by: C-Low || 07/13/2005 11:48 Comments || Top||

#6  So it's not the Jooos fault?
Posted by: Bobby || 07/13/2005 12:18 Comments || Top||

#7  give it time bobby.
Posted by: 2b || 07/13/2005 12:20 Comments || Top||

#8  I like the idea of handing over Egyptians in gitmo over, but why stop there? Hand over all the Arab prisoners to Egypt, kind of like subcontracting the prison out to them. If by some fate a few (or all) die in their custody them that's just the breaks. We know that Egypt would respect their koranic and civil rights IAW to their laws. Let the ACLU, HRW, and UN bitch about how they are treated in Egypt. Wonder if they get honey glazed chicken in Egyptian prison?
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 07/13/2005 17:17 Comments || Top||


U.S. Troops Kill 14 Insurgents in Iraq
U.S. soldiers killed 14 insurgents in two days of fighting in a strategic northern city, the American military said Monday, and gunmen killed 10 Iraqi soldiers in the central Sunni heartland. Soldiers of the U.S. 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment killed four insurgents in a gunbattle Sunday, and 10 more were killed Monday as fighting raged in Tal Afar, 260 miles north of Baghdad, the U.S. command reported. American troops suffered no casualties, the statement said.

However, insurgents bloodied an Iraqi force in Khalis, 45 miles north of Baghdad. Guerrillas firing mortars, machine guns and semiautomatic weapons stormed an Iraqi checkpoint about 5 a.m., killing eight Iraqi soldiers, Khalis police chief Col. Mahdi Saleh said. About 90 minutes later, a car bomb exploded a few miles away as an Iraqi army patrol passed, killing two soldiers, Saleh said. Two soldiers and three civilians were wounded in the attacks. Al-Qaida in Iraq claimed responsibility for the attacks in a Web statement, but the authenticity of the posting could not be confirmed. Six civilians were also killed in the Tal Afar fighting and 22 were wounded, according to the city police chief, Brig. Gen. Najim Abdullah al-Jubouri. Some of the wounded were hospital workers, officials said.
Posted by: Fred || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Iraqi army removes tons of explosives from around oil fields
Iraqi troops have dismantled and detonated about three metric tons of explosives found near oil fields in southern Iraq, a military spokesman said Tuesday. The explosives, including 1,282 mines, 628 mortar rounds and 825 artillery shells, were discovered by the government's Oil Protection Services, which notified the army, Capt. Firas al-Tamimi said. The explosions were near oil installations in the Shueiba and Rumeila fields, he was quoted as saying by The Associated Press. The explosive were later moved to an area in Shueiba, some 20 kilometers (12 miles) west of Basra, where they were detonated, he said.
Posted by: Fred || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Good work, guys.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 07/13/2005 0:15 Comments || Top||

#2  Wot a Kaboom..wish i were there!
Posted by: Splody || 07/13/2005 3:19 Comments || Top||

#3  At this rate, Saddam's weapons stash will cease to exist in less than infinite time... possibly even within the foreseeable future! ;-)
Posted by: trailing wife || 07/13/2005 7:54 Comments || Top||

#4  Iraqis securing their own country and and stopping the wanton desruction and chaos of filthy geeehoddy. God speed and God bless the Saddam-less new Iraq republican government,
Posted by: an dalusian dog || 07/13/2005 10:07 Comments || Top||

#5  The former Iraqi regime seems to have been almost pathologically pack ratish.
Posted by: Shipman || 07/13/2005 14:54 Comments || Top||

#6  Dictatorships tend to be.
Posted by: Pappy || 07/13/2005 17:50 Comments || Top||


5 Al-Qaeda-Linked Suspects Go On Trial in Jordan
Jordanian suspects linked to Al-Qaeda’s front man in Iraq, Abu Mussab Al-Zarqawi, went on trial here yesterday on charges of plotting attacks on tourist and intelligence targets, judicial sources said. The suspects, including one who is on the run, face two counts of conspiracy to carry out “terrorist acts” and the illegal possession of explosives for use in illicit operations, according to a copy of the charge sheet obtained by AFP.

One of the suspects, Ossama Abu Hazim, is said to have befriended Zarqawi accomplice Moqdad Mohammed Al-Debbas in Syria in 2003 where they discussed ways of joining the insurgency in Iraq, the charge sheet said. Another suspect, Hatem Nsur, is said to have infiltrated Iraq where he trained in the use of explosives and met the fugitive Mohammed Qteishat, with whom he concocted a plot to attack tourists in Jordan, it said. Debbas, also a Jordanian, was tried and sentenced in March for involvement in plotting an attack with Jordanian-born Zarqawi against the offices of the Jordanian military attache in Baghdad. Qteishat is also linked to Zarqawi, according to judicial sources.

A chemical expert testifying before Jordan’s State Security Court said yesterday that explosives found in possession of 24-year-old Saudi national, Fahd Al-Fuheiki, were of “high-grade military quality”, according to judicial sources. Fuheiki is standing trial at the SSC on charges of planning a suicide attack at Jordan’s Karameh border post with Iraq that was supposed to coincide with a similar bombing against US soldiers stationed at Iraq’s Teribil crossing point in December 2004, the sources said. Najeh Azzam, a chemical expert at the General Intelligence Department, told the tribunal that he had been given eight plastic envelopes containing explosives by the prosecution and a thorough examination determined “they were of high-grade military quality”.

“The powder substance I examined on Dec. 5, 2004, are considered one of the strongest military explosives and are extremely destructive and dangerous,” he said. He pointed out that the explosives could also be detonated from a distance.
Posted by: Fred || 07/13/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hang them then conduct a trial.
Posted by: Captain America || 07/13/2005 4:42 Comments || Top||

#2  "The powder substance I examined on Dec. 5, 2004, are considered one of the strongest military explosives and are extremely destructive and dangerous,”

Kinda like the Briton Boy Bombers?
Posted by: Captain America || 07/13/2005 4:43 Comments || Top||



Who's in the News
102[untagged]

Bookmark
E-Mail Me

The Classics
The O Club
Rantburg Store
The Bloids
The Never-ending Story
Thugburg
Gulf War I
The Way We Were
Bio

Merry-Go-Blog











On Sale now!


A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.

Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.

Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
Click here for more information

Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
tu3031
badanov
sherry
ryuge
GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
Gloria
Fred
Besoeker
Glenmore
Frank G
3dc
Skidmark

Two weeks of WOT
Wed 2005-07-13
  Italy police detain 174 people in anti-terror sweep
Tue 2005-07-12
  Arrests over London bomb attacks
Mon 2005-07-11
  30 al-Qaeda suspects identified in London bombings
Sun 2005-07-10
  Taliban behead 6 Afghan Policemen
Sat 2005-07-09
  Central Birminham UK Evacuated: "controlled explosions"
Fri 2005-07-08
  Lodi probe expands - 6 others may have attended camps
Thu 2005-07-07
  Terror Strikes in London Underground - Death Toll Rising
Wed 2005-07-06
  Gunnies Going After Diplos in Iraq
Tue 2005-07-05
  Three Egyptians on trial for Sinai bombings
Mon 2005-07-04
  Egyptian envoy to Baghdad kidnapped
Sun 2005-07-03
  Al-Hayeri toes up
Sat 2005-07-02
  Hundreds of Afghan Troops Raid Taliban Hide-Out
Fri 2005-07-01
  16 U.S. Troops Killed in Afghan Crash
Thu 2005-06-30
  Ricin plot leader gets 10 years
Wed 2005-06-29
  The List: Saudi Arabia's 36 Most Wanted

Better than the average link...



Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
44.200.65.174
Help keep the Burg running! Paypal:
WoT Background (37)    Non-WoT (24)    Opinion (6)    (0)    (0)