Roze Khan. His name means nothing to most Americans who have never heard it mentioned. But thousands of miles away from the United States, in the dry south of Afghanistan, it is a name that resonated across dirty brown mountains and remote, dusty villages, sometimes in fear, sometimes in awe.
"Aye! Us Pashtuns talk about him in hushed voices! Mean as a snake, he is! An' lightnin' fast on the draw!"
And when he was killed by U.S. Special Operations forces last week, it was news that spread like wildfire, across the mountains and arid plains and over the Afghan border into Pakistan where it was surely greeted with dismay among the communities of Taliban members and supporters who continue to base themselves in that country's semi-autonomous tribal areas. "He was like 'Billy the Kid' in these parts," one American soldier told me, "We've been after him for more than two years and he's escaped twice before so this feels really good." And it should. Roze Khan was the top Taliban commander based in southern Afghanistan, and the American forces here believe he recruited and organized both Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters, financing them from Pakistan. In fact, almost $10,000 in U.S. currency and a huge wad of Pakistani rupees was found on his body to support that belief.
"I mean, we wuz all standin' around wonderin', how the hell does he keep his pants up with a wallet that size?"
They also believe Khan was responsible for laying of mines, kidnapping aid workers and road workers, as well as attacks on American, Afghan and coalition soldiers. There is certainly no doubt about Roze Khan's intentions on the day he was shot dead. As Coalition Special Operations Forces approached the village where he was on a hot, dry Friday morning, Khan picked up an AK-47 rifle, six magazines, six grenades, a pistol and all that money and began to saunter casually up the mountainside behind the village.
"Later, gators."
But the soldiers had already anticipated his possible movements and it took no time for two assault teams to corner him on the mountain. Khan opened fire first, emptying his magazine before he was shot multiple times and fell bleeding onto the rocky, unforgiving ground.
"Ow! Forgive me, ground!"
"No!"
His body was immediately checked for known identifying marks and it was apparent from the very outset that this was the high-value target the soldiers were after, although they would wait for absolute confirmation before announcing his death to the world.
Checking to see if they needed the wooden stake.
"Yes! It is he! The one foretold in the legend!"
"Well, he's deader'n a doorknob!"
"Oh. Well. Maybe it ain't him, then!"
There was no further resistance from the village, and curiously, in this tiny place that could have housed no more than about a hundred people, not a single man asked to identify the body admitted knowing Roze Khan or ever having seen him before.
"Him? Nope. Nope. Not from around here, that's for sure."
"Rode into town alone, he did!"
The coalition soldiers came in with overwhelming force, but they used it sparingly. Because there were shots fired, they handcuffed some 22 men in the village of fighting age and above. Then they were searched and questioned. But contrary to popular perceptions, soldiers here operate with very strict rules, and unless they find weapons or other evidence on someone, they cannot be detained, which is similar to how the police operate in the U.S. So after several hours, only two men were detained while the rest had their plastic cuffs cut free and were left to ponder the American soldiers actions, that seemed to have taken them completely by surprise.
But the Afghan Civil Liberties Union is chartering a plane as we speak.
Even without detainees, operations like this are never a wasted exercise because fingerprints are taken from all the men and entered into a massive database that is designed to prevent people making their way into the U.S. to carry out terror attacks the way the Sept.11 hijackers did.
No more training camps, sorry.
For the men who found Roze Khan, this was a huge morale boost. A textbook operation, executed almost to perfection. This particular team has captured or killed five Taliban commanders, more than any other single team since this war began over two years ago. They don't want any credit for it, they tell me, because that's not why they are here, doing this very difficult and dangerous job. But it is gratifying to know that back home in the U.S., thousands of miles and several world away, Rantburg readers people remember an important war is still being fought.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 5:25:19 PM ||
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Muslim cleric Abu Hamza is no longer being questioned by UK authorities on alleged terror offences after being de-arrested. But he remains detained at the high-security Belmarsh prison, where he has been since May following an extradition request from the US. Hamza was arrested at the prison in south-east London last week under the Terrorism Act 2000 and taken to Paddington Green police station for questioning on suspicion of being involved in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism. The cleric faces 11 charges in the US where he is accused of playing a key role in Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda terror network. The allegations also relate to a hostage-taking incident in the Yemen in 1988 in which three Britons were killed.
Hamza is also accused of trying to set up a terror training camp in the US state of Oregon and sending another radical Islamic fundamentalist to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban. Detectives at Scotland Yard were understood to be probing allegations relating to the provision of support for terrorism, rather than involvement in any specific plot. The full extradition hearing is due to resume at Bow Street Magistrates' Court in central London on October 19.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 1:51:07 AM ||
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I hope they jail him in Oregon.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/01/2004 1:53 Comments ||
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"Mr... [looks down at form] ...Hamza. I've got good news for you. The charges have been dropped. You're free to go..."
"Really?! Ululul-"
"...back to your cell [snigger]"
"-ulu...poo! You infidel camel-suck-mmph-ow! [sounds of a scuffle]"
Former US soldier Charles Jenkins, who has been accused of defecting to North Korea, says he is ready to surrender to US military authorities. The 64-year-old - who is currently in a Tokyo hospital - faces a possible court martial on charges of desertion. There is speculation that Mr Jenkins' willingness to give himself up points to the possibility of a plea bargain. Correspondents say he may avoid being put on trial by accepting a dishonourable discharge.
That and the 40 years he spent in North Korea are enough punishment.
Mr Jenkins arrived in Tokyo with his Japanese wife in July, despite the threat of being extradited to the US. The couple's plight has won them sympathy in Japan, and has complicated Japan-US relations. "I will soon voluntarily face the charges that have been filed against me by the US Army," Mr Jenkins said in a statement released through his American military lawyer James Culp. Mr Jenkins said he would go to a US base west of Tokyo to "begin the process that will bring closure to my pending legal situation". He signed the statement "Charles Robert Jenkins, Sergeant, United States Army". Colonel Victor Warzinski, a spokesman for US forces in Japan, described the move as "a welcome development". "Sergeant Jenkins faces serious charges and we have long contended that he needs to avail himself of the military justice system," he said. Mr Jenkins is accused of defecting to North Korea in 1965, where he lived for nearly 40 years. He also faces possible charges of aiding the enemy and encouraging other soldiers to desert their posts. Desertion alone carries a maximum life penalty, but analysts say it is extremely unlikely he will be given such a sentence.
Looking at his picture, he doesn't have much life left in him.
The US has delayed demanding immediate custody of the ex-soldier in consideration of his medical condition, but has repeatedly stated its intention not to let the matter drop.
If he surrenders, pleads guilty and gives a nice long interview on life in North Korea, I figure a BCD and time served will be enough.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/01/2004 8:59:08 AM ||
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I'd prefer to see him shot. But I'm old-fashioned.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/01/2004 9:13 Comments ||
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#2
why would we want him? Kick his ass back to the paradise of NK. Refuse any and all contact with him. He's an insect
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/01/2004 9:21 Comments ||
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#3
well finally we have a deserter who isn't a muslim
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/01/2004 11:10 Comments ||
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#6
He needs to be pumped for info, FWIW, then he needs to be denied entry into the US or any of its posessions under penalty of being charged with desertion. Man without a country. Let him rot, as long as he does not rot in the USA.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/01/2004 17:23 Comments ||
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#7
Implant a microchip in his brain and send him back.
Police in Croatia have arrested a former Macedonian minister over allegations he ordered the murders of seven South Asian men in March 2002. At the time of the deaths, then-Interior Minister Ljube Boskovski said the men were Islamic militants. But prosecutors say the men were innocent and their deaths were staged in an attempt to make Macedonia appear active in the US-led war on terror. Mr Boskovski, who also has Croatian citizenship, has denied the charges. He was arrested in Bale village in Croatia's north-west. He has been living openly there since May, when he fled Macedonia after Macedonian authorities issued a warrant for his arrest. Six other men, including several police officers, have also been charged with the murders of the six Pakistanis and one Indian months after the 11 September 2001 attacks in the US. Mr Boskovski says he has taped proof that the men were planning terrorist attacks and "absolutely" denies allegations that the killings were staged.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/01/2004 3:24:25 AM ||
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Relatives of two French reporters held hostage in Iraq waited anxiously on Wednesday for news of their fate after a deadline for Paris to scrap a ban on Muslim headscarves in schools apparently passed without incident. French President Jacques Chirac again rejected the demands by militants holding Georges Malbrunot and Christian Chesnot that the law be revoked, as Foreign Minister Michel Barnier drummed up a chorus of Arab support for France's position. Tension rose as the reported deadline neared on Tuesday night, but was replaced by confusion after an Arab League official said he believed it had been extended by 48 hours starting on Monday, not 24 hours as previously reported. That theory appeared to be strengthened by the absence of a new message from the kidnappers on Tuesday night. The apparent reprieve was not enough to console friends and relatives of the two men, who disappeared on Aug. 20 on their way from Baghdad to Najaf. Chesnot is a reporter for Radio France Internationale and Malbrunot writes for the dailies Le Figaro and Ouest France.
Thought that being French they could go anywhere without security, eh?
"The first week we were less worried and then on Saturday, we really began to be very concerned," Bernard Malbrunot, brother of one of the hostages, told France 2 television. He was referring to a video of the two men issued on Saturday by the Islamic Army in Iraq, a shadowy militant group, in which it gave France 48 hours to revoke the controversial ban on girls wearing headscarves in school. Arabic television station Al Jazeera quoted a statement on Monday as saying the militants had extended the deadline by 24 hours. The two reporters said in a video aired on Monday that they would be killed unless France retracted the headscarf ban. "Certainly the hostages are alive -- we saw them briefly yesterday (in the video) -- but I think the mood and our morale have considerably worsened," said Jean de Belot, editor-in-chief of Le Figaro. Barnier returned to Egypt on Tuesday night after meeting King Abdullah in Jordan on a whistlestop tour of Middle East capitals designed to garner support.
Yeah, that'll do a lot of good.
Islamic militant group Hamas joined groups including French Muslims opposed to the headscarf ban, Palestinian President Yasser Arafat and aides to anti-U.S. cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in urging freedom for the journalists. The kidnappings stunned France, which opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and also objected to pre-war sanctions. Giant photos of Chesnot and Malbrunot were projected on the front of Paris town hall, while supporters held demonstrations of solidarity across the country.
Of course, no word about actually doing something, like the Foreign Legion, or a special detachment of the French special forces, or a sneaky intel group.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/01/2004 12:11:48 AM ||
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France? Hell no! The "France d'en haut" (Upper France), and specially the chattering classes, await nervously for the fate of two of its members. Not France.
#2
If the cut-throats let the poor sods go, due to some sort of french solidarity to islam or an arab thingy, what does that say about the french and their myopic world view?
To me, France looks rediculous. They have spoiled their relationship with their natural, cultural allies, and have made a bed with a bunch of buggering brothers.
That smell you smell. It was there all along and you smelled it but acted as though it were cuisine. Idiots!
#3
What's the courier route to Al Jazeera look like--especially now that they've been kicked out of Iraq? Does Al Jiz have a section on their web site that gives instructions on how to deliver your jihadi snuff flicks?
#4
Ah, the trials and tribulations of negotiating with terrorists. Of course, France could have taken a stand against terrorism, but if they did that they would not have the opportunity of all this subterfuge, non?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/01/2004 1:24 Comments ||
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#6
It is odd to think that people may die over the right to wear a doo rag to school.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/01/2004 2:08 Comments ||
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#7
The problem SH is thats its not a doo-rag. It's an 'In your face' political statement. It says "we're apart from you."
But I know what you mean, in our lazez fare attitudes it all seems so riduculous. But it's not. It is the front lines in this war and I'm with the Frenchies on it. Good luck to them.
#8
It's also the democratic principle. What the hostage-takers object to is immaterial. Forget for a moment what they say their objection is, and consider what in effect they're trying to do: overrule a democratically elected leadership and control a nation's dometic policy at the barrel of a gun. That's the real issue here. Not headscarves. The hostages wouldn't be dying for 'doo rags' - they'd be dying as a sacrifice for democracy.
And yet despite the fact that it is a statement of political strength, the muslim leadership in france is now telling the community to go along with the ban. What's more, they're finally speaking out against terrorism. Why? Because they see there could be a backlash against them in france. This is the loudest and most widespread condemnation of islamic terror by muslims I can recall. I guess they support terror unless it has personal consequences. Thus, I would advocate that we make sure terror has consequences for the supporters of terror.
Terror will end if the muslim community puts an end to it. Internally. It must come from their own renaissance/reformation, not from the west. I'm not very optimistic.
#12
During the 73 oil embargo, France got all the oil they wanted, due to their ass kissing of the ME oil suppliers. In other words, the French sold out their foreign policy to others. There is nothing new in their behaviors since then. They are going to have to do a 180 to get back to basics, and I do not see them starting yet. After being kicked out of Iraq after the fall of Sammy, they started cuddling up to Iran. Now they are starting to reap the whirlwind. There will be LOTS of French casualties if they start their turnaround. There will also be LOTS of French casualties if they don't.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/01/2004 11:37 Comments ||
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#13
I saw 5 seconds of video of the two "hostages". I immediately thought it was staged or they were in cahoots with the "captors", looking to make a political statement back home. Expect them to be magically released.
#16
$3M was reportedly the amount paid in 1988 by Chirac via intermediaries to Lebanese hostage-takers. This time I'm guessing $5M funneled through numbered accounts in Dubai.
#17
JFM, please help me explain what's happening here, my english and debating skill are not up to the task! :)
This is not a drama, this is a psychodrama, almost funny in some way; french media are having vapors about all this, and the elite is busily sucking some muslim organs best not mentioned here. France has laid itself at the feet of the fundies : the muslim institution set up to represent french muslim is the CFCM, dominated by the "union of islamic organizations", a muslim brotherhood offshoot, and this "crisis" allows the CFCM to present itself as the indispensable interlocutor with the muslim world.
Internally, France has surrendered, the law on scarf has been gutted out, this is now official, the education minister has just announced how the law will be enforced, and it follows the UOIF's desideratas (alternate headgear accepted, delay, muslim mediator, dialog, no expulsion,... Just imagine that school officals have been visiting some muslim dignitaries to "discuss" of the law application!). Anyway, this ban was strictly for pretend purpose, as secularism is at the heart of the french Republic identity and the people wouldn't have understood if nothing was done.
The atmosphere here is surreal, De Villepin (who is a man, and the interior minister) has been praying with the Paris mayor and the journalists' families at the grand mosque of Paris, the message sent over and over is how the french muslim are united with the rest of the people, and the fundies are busy w/ their PR; gvt officials appear on tv surrounded by muslims in traditionnal clothing or veiled, you hear again and again how France suscites a general outburst of solidarity with the arab/muslim world (we're being supported by the Hamas, the hezbollah, Arafish,... Curiously, no word on western solidarity... The only gvt that was chastized is Allawi's, as his declaration were not in tune with the "do not hurt our french friends"... but of course, Allawi is an american puppet). All in all, this is disguting : France needs its muslims friends to save its journalists (who are paleostinians enablers, very arab friendly, by the way, call it irony). What a contrast with Italy's dignity!
Externally, Chirac has sent Barnier touring the ME and contacting religious authorities (not. the muslim brotherhood, and Iraqi council of ulemas); secret service agents have been urged to "do whatever is needed" to save them (ransom?)... Instead of being firm, Chirac is selling France a lil' more... worse, I heard the CFCM has been asked to sent a delegation to Bagdad, in order to negociate at the behalf of the french gvt...
My take on all this? Regardless of if these two buffoons live or not, and I'd prefer them to live btw, it has been a sismic change in french internal politics. The muslim brotherhood-dominated CFCM is now unavoidable in the relationship w/muslim community, the scarf ban has been sucked dry of its substance, and France 's restlessness to get its hostages back has further more divided the western front. This is a fundies victory! If theses 2 guys are not executed, this will mean France truly is a dhimmi country.
#18
The kidnappings stunned France, which opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and also objected to pre-war sanctions.
That's the problem with kissing ass, especially the Islamist variety. Once you get a reputation for doing it well, there's an endless line of assholes to service. In typically insular Gallic fashion, a vital object lesson right next door in Spain was ignored in its entirety. France will, rather deservingly, have to learn about appeasing terrorists the hard way. Sadly Happily, they will probably osculate another thousand sphincters before getting the remotest clue.
Federal authorities arrested a Des Plaines man Monday, saying he entered the country as a "sleeper" spy for the Iraqi intelligence service and charging him with lying on his U.S. citizenship application to conceal his role.
After the arrest of Sami Khoshaba Latchin, 57, prosecutors said he became a naturalized citizen after making false statements to immigration officials in 1999 and planned to "lay low" until contacted by his Iraqi handler.
Latchin entered a not guilty plea at a hearing Monday.
According to a federal indictment returned July 21 and unsealed Monday, Latchin worked for the Iraqi Intelligence Service, known as the Mukhabbarat, the foreign intelligence arm of the Iraqi government.
The indictment said that in addition to failing to disclose his ties to Iraqi intelligence, Latchin, a Baath party member, lied about overseas trips he made in 1994, 1996 and 1997.
Latchin, who was born in Dohuk, Iraq, and has lived in the United States for nearly 11 years, told authorities he was traveling on vacation when, in fact, he met with his Iraqi intelligence handler and received payment for his services, the indictment alleges.
U.S. District Judge Rebecca Pallmeyer remanded Latchin to the Metropolitan Correctional Center in downtown Chicago pending a detention hearing Sept. 7.
Federal defender Mary Judge, Latchin's attorney, said Monday she would fight her client's detention but declined to comment further.
If convicted of making false statements, Latchin faces 10 years in prison and $250,000 in fines, federal prosecutors said. Fitzgerald also said prosecutors would seek to have Latchin's citizenship revoked.
Fitzgerald downplayed the timing of the arrest, which came more than six weeks after a federal grand jury returned the indictment of Latchin. Fitzgerald would not comment on the delay.
"We thought it was important to wait, but it's important that we now move forward," he said.
Fitzgerald said authorities learned of Latchin's alleged involvement with the Mukhabbarat 1 1/2 years ago while reviewing FBI intelligence.
Under oath, Latchin denied affiliation to any association or group and claimed he had worked for only two businesses in the last five years: Service Service Inc. of Schiller Park and St. Louis-based Huntleigh USA, a passenger and baggage-screening service that contracted with a number of airports, including O'Hare International.
Federal officials said Latchin was employed by the Mukhabbarat while he worked at O'Hare from 1995 to 1997 for Service Service and then Huntleigh, officials said.
Latchin worked at the airport again in April 2000 for Prospect Airport Services Inc., a Des Plaines company providing airline-related contract services to major carriers, city aviation spokeswoman Annette Martinez said.
But Fitzgerald said Latchin's work experience was not related to his dealings with the Mukhabbarat.yet.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/01/2004 9:46:39 PM ||
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"damn those confiscated documents in Iraq!"
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/01/2004 23:29 Comments ||
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From The Washington Post
The Justice Department will ask a federal judge in Detroit to dismiss the convictions of three men in a high-profile terrorism case last year, saying it has uncovered serious prosecutorial misconduct in the case. Department lawyers have told U.S. District Judge Gerald Rosen and defense attorneys that the convictions should be thrown out because prosecutors failed to share potentially exculpatory evidence with the defense during last year's trial, legal sources said last night. The convictions of two Moroccan immigrants for conspiracy to provide material support for terrorism and of a third man on document fraud charges represented one of the government's most significant victories in the war on terrorism in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. ....
A filing from the Justice Department is expected as early as today seeking to have the convictions overturned and detailing the alleged misconduct. The department is expected to say that it will not seek reinstatement of the terrorism-related charges against defendants Karim Koubriti and Abdel-Ilah Elmardoudi but will seek to retry them and a third man, Ahmed Hannan, on document fraud charges. ...In the first terrorism-related trial since the Sept. 11 attacks, Elmardoudi, 37, of Minneapolis, and Koubriti, 26, of Detroit, were convicted in June 2003 of conspiring to provide material support to terrorists and document fraud. Hannan, 35, of Detroit was convicted of document fraud, and Farouk Ali-Haimoud, 22, of Detroit was cleared of all charges.
Justice Department officials, including Attorney General John D. Ashcroft, asserted the men were in a sleeper cell associated with al Qaeda and had plans to secure weapons and attack targets in the United States and abroad. Authorities stumbled on some of the men when they raided a Detroit apartment shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks in a search for Nabil al-Marabh, who was on a terrorist watch list. They later termed the apprehension one of the most significant in the United States in the war against terrorism.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
09/01/2004 8:46:57 AM ||
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Illustrates the utter silliness of treating terrorists as criminals.
But why âoverturningâ in the title? At this point, itâs just a motion to dismiss. Has the motion been approved?
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 10:13 Comments ||
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It will be.
I sure would like to hear from OS about this. It looks like another trumped up case with falsified evidence by the prosecution. If DOJ can't prove these guys are criminals without falsifying evidence, why should DOD treat them as enemies?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/01/2004 11:37 Comments ||
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On July 24 the FBI was called to Los Angeles International Airport because a "suspicious person" was videotaping parts of the airport that go beyond tourist interest. USC Professor Richard Dekemjian, a terrorism expert, told NBC4, "He's not just taking only pictures of an airplane, but the police station, the loading of baggage. It's just too detailed and the whole combination of things would make an agent suspicious." It did, according to an LAX Police log. Eduardo Henrique De Lima, 25, of Brazil videotaped the Los Angeles Police Department substation, the tower, ramp areas, runways, and airfield at LAX.
The Pentagon analyst at the center of an FBI investigation involving classified information being given to Israel is a career civil servant who specialized in Iranian affairs within the policy branch of the Office of the Secretary of Defense under Donald H. Rumsfeld. Lawrence A. Franklin, 57, is suspected of passing classified information about U.S. policy with Iran to a pro-Israel lobbying firm in the District, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which passed on the information to Israeli officials. Mr. Franklin began his Pentagon career as a Defense Intelligence Agency analyst specializing in Soviet affairs. Sometime after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, he turned his focus to the Middle East and learned Farsi, the predominant language of Iran.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 1:50:03 AM ||
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#1
Is it possible that he was receiving information from an Israeli source?
I'm not sure how this would have been Rumsfeld's problem. I guess that would depend on how long he has been passing information - if he has.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/01/2004 1:58 Comments ||
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Why is this information being publicized? Conduct the investigation, make the conclusions, decide whether to prosecute, then release information. Until then, shut the hell up about people's identities. This "Jewelling" of someone who hasn't even been charged with anything is ridiculous and unnecessary.
Authorities say the unusual behavior of a New York truck driver who was pulled over for speeding and then shot during a confrontation with a state trooper has prompted them to investigate possible terrorist ties. Mohammed Medhat Karim, 46, was pulled over Monday by Tennessee Highway Patrol Trooper Thomas C. Kilpatrick for speeding on U.S. Highway 64 in Wayne County, about 80 miles southwest of Nashville. As Kilpatrick was returning with the citation, authorities said Karim backed into the trooper's car, and "there was a confrontation at that time." Kilpatrick fired several shots, striking the driver in his chest, according to reports. Karim somehow took the gun away from the trooper, got back in his rig and drove about a mile before apparently realizing he had been shot and pulled over, authorities said. He was then arrested. "It's a very strange set of circumstances," said District Attorney General Mike Bottoms, who called for the probe. "We're trying to find out why a driver would act the way this one did for a speeding ticket."
Maj. Gen. Jerry Humble, director of Tennessee's Homeland Security, said authorities "don't have any indication right now" that Karim may be tied to terrorists, but they're just being "cautious." "It's normal procedure," Humble said. "This is the world we live in after 9/11, so this is the steps we have to take. Law enforcement never know what's going to happen." Humble agreed with Bottoms that it was Karim's "actions" that "raised our eyebrows," not his foreign-sounding name or the fact that President Bush was in town Tuesday to speak to the American Legion national convention. "It was irrational behavior from a commercial truck driver, and this was a crime," Humble said. Karim's tractor trailer has been impounded, he said, and it's going to be off-loaded. Authorities haven't yet learned what cargo the truck was carrying.
Meanwhile, Karim remains at Vanderbilt University Medical Center where he was listed in critical condition Tuesday. No charges have been filed against him, and his driving record was not available under New York privacy laws. Kilpatrick has been placed on administrative leave with pay.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 1:34:10 AM ||
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Pulling over to facilitate receipt of medical attention would be considered irrational behavior for a suicide bomber.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/01/2004 2:03 Comments ||
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How the hell did he take the gun away from the highway patrolman? This story is bizarre.
Posted by: John in Tokyo ||
09/01/2004 2:34 Comments ||
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#3
Where the hell was that cops back-up weapon and why the heck didn't he dot the perps eyes?
#4
Here in a Tennessee Troopers "back-up weapon", if he has one, is kept in the patrol car. It's usually a shotgun. As for taking away the Trooper's weapon, in a struggle it depends on the size and strength of one's adversary. It's not like in the movies where someone gets shot and immediately falls over dead. Unless there is a heart shot or a head shot a person can keep going for quite some time.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
09/01/2004 8:00 Comments ||
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#5
#3 Where the hell was that cops back-up weapon and why the heck didn't he dot the perps eyes?
There are really very few Troopers in TN. I didn't look up the exact number, but I believe there is only approx 200 - 250 for the entire state (this includes admin people, I believe). Each trooper covers quite a large area and operates alone the vast majority of the time. Additionally, Wayne county is a rural area and any local PD or sheriff was likely not close enough to respond as a back-up in a reasonable amount of time.
Also, most THP have never (or very rarely) had to un-holster their side arm while on the job. And due to the fact that they spend most of their time patrolling, they donât get a great deal of time at the range. Given the circumstances (hostile action by the suspect, adrenaline pumping, etc.), Iâd say Trooper Kilpatrick did an admirable job of stopping the suspectâ¦even if he was not immediately stopped.
#6
Since they have Karim medicated, its time to ask questions. Also there should be a arabic-speaking guard bedside, in case he starts to babble in his sleep. Info can be gained.
#7
How did I know without reading the full article the guy's name wouldn't be "Dwayne"?
These troopers must have 9mm or smaller poodle shooters, as Kim du Toit would say. If Mohammed had been hit by a .357 or .45, he would have been very aware he'd been hit!
Posted by: Dar ||
09/01/2004 12:30 Comments ||
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#8
Dar: Nail on the head.
If it had been .45 ACP, the only medical personnel needed would have been a coroner.
I bet the next time he goes out on patrol he won't be carrying THAT hush puppy pistol.
"Ah-ah, I know what you're thinking punk. You're thinking did he fire six shots or only 5. And to tell you the truth I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But being this is a .44 Magnum - the most powerful hand gun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question--Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk????"
#10
Much as I love Tennessee, living here as I do, you have to understand that most of our law enforment (Not all) aren't what you'd call, enthusiasts. There was an incident here in Knoxville where a man with a pellet gun threatened police and in reponse they fired at him 26 times, managing to slightly wound him in the arm. Sad as that is, I doubt the cops in other states do much better.
Militants triggered two bombs on Wednesday in an attack on an armed convoy escorting teachers to work in the troubled south of Thailand but nobody was hurt, police said. The blasts were the latest in a spate of violence in the Muslim-majority south that has left more than 285 people dead this year from bomb and gun attacks and a failed separatist uprising. One person was killed and more than 30 injured last week in a bombing at a market ahead of a visit by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Police said a third roadside device was defused Wednesday after the two blasts in Narathiwat, one of the three worst-affected provinces during this year's violence. "It is certain that the bombs are part of the campaign of unrest," said police colonel Ubon Meeboon. Teachers at state-run schools, security officials and Buddhist monks have been targeted during the resurgence of decades-long separatist violence. Islamic militants want to establish an independent Muslim state in southern Thailand. The authorities believed the insurgency had been quelled but a raid on an army camp in January that left four soldiers dead heralded a new round of violence. Thailand's Queen Sirikit is due to visit the region on Saturday.
Indonesian police rejected a legal bid to release terror suspect Abu Bakar Bashir, saying they have indisputable evidence of the Islamic cleric's involvement in a Jakarta hotel bombing. Bashir's lawyers have brought a lawsuit against police anti-terror forces for wrongfully arresting and detaining the cleric on a warrant linking him to the October 2002 Bali bombings. The April 30 arrest, made as Bashir stepped out of jail having served time on other charges, was made prior to a ruling by Indonesia's top court outlawing the retroactive use of a new anti-terror law to cover the Bali attacks. But following last month's Constitutional Court ruling, police amended the charge sheet, principally tying him to an August 2003 attack on Jakarta's Marriott hotel that left 12 dead.
Police lawyer Syitono told a pre-trial hearing in Jakarta that Bashir was also linked to the uncovering of a haul of weapons in Semarang, a city on the island of Java. "Based on the result of expanded investigation, the plaintiff is not only linked with the Bali bombings but he is also connected with the Marriott bombings and the discovery of weapons and explosive in Semarang," he said. Prosecutors have confirmed that Bashir will appear in court charged with the Marriott attack under the tough new anti-terror law, which carries a possible death sentence. The legal challenge by Bashir's lawyers, on which judges will rule next Monday, is the latest hitch in the battle to bring the elderly cleric to court, but few expect it to succeed.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 2:15:23 AM ||
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Talks to end a 30-year Moro rebellion in Mindanao could face fresh delays, with the main rebel group yet to approve guidelines for deploying foreign peace monitors, a Malaysian diplomat said Tuesday. Malaysia, which has been brokering talks since 2001 to end the conflict in Mindanao, has put together an international team of peace monitors to prevent government troops and rebels from breaking a year-long truce. "We're still waiting for the terms of reference from the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF)," Mahinder Singh, a senior official at the Malaysian embassy, told reporters in Manila.
The terms of reference are guidelines regulating the role of peace monitors in Mindanao. The deployment of foreign peace monitors is one of three preconditions set by the MILF before formal talks resume to end the rebellion that has claimed over 120,000 lives since the 1970s. Talks have been on hold for nearly three years. The government has already pulled troops out of Buliok, a rebel enclave it captured last year, and agreed to drop murder cases against 185 MILF leaders in connection with two bomb attacks in Davao City that killed 38 last year.
Apart from Malaysia, only Brunei has committed troops to a 60-member team from Muslim countries to monitor a fragile cease-fire between government troops and MILF rebels in five areas in Mindanao. Malaysia is still awaiting word from Bahrain, Indonesia, Libya and Saudi Arabia. Both government and rebel leaders have agreed talks should begin before October 15 when the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins. Eid Kabalu, spokesman for MILF, said the rebel group had sent its own version of the guidelines to Kuala Lumpur more than a week ago. "We are ready for the talks," he said. "We did our own homework and are waiting for Malaysia to schedule the talks."
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 2:14:02 AM ||
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Tension was building in Mindanao on Tuesday after a large group of Muslim separatist guerrillas gathered near a military detachment ahead of proposed peace talks, a military official said. About 200 Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) guerrillas moved into the village of Camanga near the town of Isulan on Mindanao island on Monday, said Brigadier General Alexander Yano, the chief military representative on a joint panel monitoring a 13 month-old ceasefire between the two sides. The military declined to say what triggered the sudden rebel movement, but it followed an armed clash last week near the town of Mamasapano.
The monitoring teams are meeting to try to defuse the situation ahead of planned peace talks in Malaysia, Yano told reporters. Talks are ongoing "to avert any further hostilities because we also have troops deployed very near the area," Yano said. "It's too close for comfort. There could be a shootout."
The military has asked the rebels to leave and has also pledged to pull back its own forces, said Yano. He said the rebels appeared willing to move as early as Tuesday. He said most of the rebels came from Mamasapano, the scene of the most recent clash between the MILF and government forces last week. In the same week a second clash occurred near the town of Ampatuan, leaving one soldier and two MILF rebels dead.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 2:12:08 AM ||
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ARMY troops clashed with suspected Abu Sayyaf bandits in Baiwas, Sumisip, Basilan Monday morning in a bid to wipe out the Al-Qaeda-linked radical terrorists in the island. Southern Command spokesman Major Bartolome Bacarro said soldiers from the 55th Infantry Battalion chanced upon the group as they were patrolling the bandit's lair in the village, at about 9:30 a.m. However, there were no immediate reports of casualties from both sides, according to Bacarro. The troops took some of the bandits' weapons they left behind, consisting of one M-16 assault rifle, one M203 Garand rifle, and several rounds of ammunitions, including six from 40 mm mortars.
The troops on Basilan were earlier directed by Southcom chief Major General Generoso Senga to intensify their campaign against the remaining Abu Sayyaf group. Comdr. Mingkong, who is the military's main target, along with Abu Sayyaf prison escapee Abu Black, leads the remaining Abu Sayyaf group. Mingkong is reportedly leading some 20 armed followers and still roaming the mountains of Basilan after their overall leader Kadaffy Janjalani reportedly fled the area to Central Mindanao two years ago. Also in the list of the army anti-terror drive in the said province is Comdr. Suhu Salajain, who was implicated in the Basilan kidnappings in the past years. The army in the island neutralized Mingkong's late father, who was also known as an Abu Sayyaf fighter, some months ago, according to 103rd Army Brigade Commander Col. Raymundo Ferrer. The down-sized Abu Sayyaf group in Basilan is reportedly engaged in extortion activities, mostly victimizing passenger jeepneys in their desperate bid to survive in the jungles as they no longer enjoy support for funds from friendly foreign radical forces, and due to the currently intensified drive against terrorism the region.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 1:53:58 AM ||
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The exact number of hostages remained unclear — estimates ranged from 132 to nearly 400 — reflecting a scene of confusion and fear as parents gathered in anxious vigil, sometimes having to be restrained for trying to approach the school. A handful of other students earlier managed to escape, apparently after hiding in a boiler room, officials said. Earlier Rossiya, a state television network, showed a camouflaged soldier racing a young girl, dressed in a light lavender skirt, to safety, followed by an elderly woman.
A man who answered the telephone at the school and identified himself as a spokesman for the fighters said they wanted talks with the leaders of North Ossetia and neighboring Ingushetia, as well as with a pediatrician who participated in negotiations with insurgents who seized a Moscow theater in October 2002. "Wipe your sniffles," the man said, speaking crudely in Russian with a Chechen accent, when asked what they hoped to discuss with the officials. He then hung up.
Russia's defense minister, Sergei B. Ivanov, speaking in Moscow even as the hostage crisis unfolded in the south, said the attacks scourging the country amounted to a state of war. "War has been declared on us, where the enemy is unseen and there is no front," Mr. Ivanov said. "This is regrettably not the first and I fear not the last terrorist act."
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 6:31:37 PM ||
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#1
"We shall fight against them, throw them in prisons and destroy them," Mr. Putin said, according to Interfax.
Wrong solution, This would only cause more hostagetaking in order to free these animals.
#3
Has Russia ever done counter hostage taking? I know Stalin wouldn't have flinched from such a thing. The Nazis used to do it in occupied areas... Just curious not advocating it.
LeT chief wants Hyderabad, Junagarh too
Mohammad Shehzad in Islamabad *snip* Summary: Standard jihadi ravings about Kashmir and the heathen Hindoo.
Saeed also accused the US of masterminding terrorist activities around the world. "Jihad has unfortunately been called terrorism. Jihad is the US target. Bomb blasts and all other terrorist activities are being masterminded by the US and its allies such as India and Israel." "I say so, it must be true."
"Everything is blamed on the mujahideen under the cover of al-Qaeda. There is nothing like al-Qaeda. It is malicious propaganda against Islam. I am really sorry to learn that the government has failed to understand this American move. It is forging friendship with India and the US instead of fighting them." Saeed had earlier stated that his outfit would send mujahideen to Iraq for a jihad. But in his interview, he took a different position, though still endorsing jihad in Iraq. 'We don't prepare suicide attackers," he said. "We are not sending troops to Iraq. This is US and Indian propaganda to malign and undermine JD so that it can be declared a terrorist outfit. We endorse jihad in Iraq just like jihad in Kashmir. If the Americans could travel thousands of miles to attack Afghanistan and Iraq, then it is every Muslim's right to fight in Iraq. Thus, we preach jihad and urge Muslims to help Iraq. The US and its allies are spreading terrorism in Iraq." "Nothing is our fault, nothing. We are not responsible for anything, not even what we said in public yesterday."
'Lashkar militants planned to attack BSE'
Saeed also described Pakistan as a slave country. Responding to a question on Shaukat Aziz becoming prime minister, he said: "There is nothing like democracy in Pakistan. Everything is decided by the US. Shaukat Aziz also falls in this category. It is very painful for us that our decisions are made by foreign powers." On the upcoming US presidential election, he said: "Even if the Democrats win the elections, there will be no change in the US policies. In the US setup, parties are just an eyewash. In fact, the Jewish lobby decides the fate of the US. The Jews are the kingmakers. Bush is just a pawn that has been sacrificed. It must be horrible to be constantly outwitted, bamboozled, oppressed, crushed and exploited by a group you outnumber 100 to 1, not even counting the millions of peace activists and other allies you have in the west.
"The Jews are the worst enemies of Islam. Therefore, there will be no pro-Muslim change. The US economy is worsening. The US is no more as powerful as it used to be. I see a good change in future. Muslim countries will have to unite. If they unite on one platform, they could cause the US's disintegration." The Mohammedan agenda in a nutbagshell
A U.S. air strike on the Iraqi city of Falluja killed at least eight people, Iraqi medical sources said early on Thursday. The U.S. military said in a separate statement it had "conducted a precision attack" on Wednesday evening against two safe houses used by associates of al-Qaeda ally Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in southwest Falluja, a city in the Sunni triangle west of Baghdad. Earlier on Wednesday Zarqawi associates conducted an execution in southern Falluja, the U.S. statement said. "The Zarqawi associates were observed removing a man from the trunk of a car, executing him, then burying his body," the statement said. It added that the house attacked in the air strike was next to fields.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 6:14:03 PM ||
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#1
Things I'd like to Read Dept:
The U.S. military said in a vague statement it had "conducted an incindiary attack" on Wednesday evening against two safe hoods used by associates of al-Qaeda ally Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in southwest Falluja, a city in the Sunni triangle west of Baghdad.
An armed gang holding at least 120 hostages at a school in southern Russia on Wednesday threatened to kill 50 children for every one of their number killed by security forces, the region's interior minister said. The official, Kazbek Dzantiyev, told local journalists in Beslan in Russia's North Ossetia region: "They have said that for every fighter wiped out they will kill 50 children and for every fighter wounded — 20."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/01/2004 2:10:09 PM ||
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#1
Guys in the photo don't look like the first team.
#3
Chances are the folks you see in the pic are Russian Army there for perimeter security until the FSB guys get deployed. Not sure if they use SpetzNaz ( although I doubt it ) as there is a specialized anti-terror FSB unit for such matters as these.
If the Russians use the FBS guys it will be, about now, when its dark.
#5
I believe Russia's position is that Chechnya is part of Russia. It's hard to expel people you claim are your citizens.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 16:12 Comments ||
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#6
If this turns out bad: Put a bullet in the head of each prisoner they wanted released. Arrest all the relatives of the kidnappers, who you can lay hands on. Send all of the people in the villages where the kidnappers are from to the Gulag. Less incentives for further stunts like this.
#7
The amazing thing is that the useful idiots of the world (ex: kerry's supporters) are not willing or are too stupid to connect the dots. I do not care if the reasons Chechans have for wanting to separate from Russian are valid or not. The important thing to notice here is the way they try to accomplish it: the muslim way..blowing stuff up, killing children, demanding this and that, kidnapping, etc, etc. Isn't this what they do in Israel, Thailand, Indonesia and every country where they are present. Why can people not see this?
Russia deployed extra troops to guard dozens of nuclear facilities across the country on Wednesday after militants seized a school in the south and a suicide bomb attack in Moscow, the nuclear authority said. Russia, the world's No.2 atomic power after the United States, has come under international pressure to do more to protect its Soviet-era nuclear facilities against attack. "After the latest terrorist attacks security services decided to send more interior ministry troops to all nuclear sites across the country," a Russian Atomic Energy Agency spokesman said. He would not say how many additional troops were sent. Russia runs dozens of atomic reactors, uranium enrichment facilities and nuclear research reactors — some in the far-flung corners of Siberia and which are poorly guarded. Reactors are also attractive to militants because atomic fuel stored at many sites can be used in nuclear bombs.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/01/2004 2:09:02 PM ||
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#1
Probably a good idea.
I hope, in the same vein, that Ridge has San Onofre, and Diablo Canyon on his list of sensitive California sites.
September 1, 2004 Release Number: 04-09-01 IRAQI POLICE, MULTI-NATIONAL FORCES DETAIN THREE; DISARM TWO ROADSIDE BOMBS
MOSUL -- Iraqi Police and Multi-national Forces from the 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division (Stryker Brigade Combat Team) detained three people wanted for anti-Iraqi activities and foiled two roadside bomb attacks Tuesday in northern Iraq. Multi-national Forces conducted cordon and search operations in the neighborhood of Tamooz and detained three members of a known terrorist network wanted for planning and conducting anti-Iraqi attacks. The terrorists are in custody and no injuries were reported during the operation.
Iraqi Police foiled a roadside bomb attack in the neighborhood of Al Thubat when they identified a suspicious item lying near the side of road. The Iraqi Explosive Ordnance Disposal team was notified and successfully reduced the device.
Soldiers from 3rd Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment also foiled a roadside bomb attack northwest of Mosul when they identified a 105mm artillery round near the side of the road. The patrol quickly cordoned off the area and reduced the device. No injuries were reported during of the operation.
August 31, 2004 Release Number: 04-08-94 IRAQI POLICE AND MULTINATIONAL FORCES FOIL ROADSIDE BOMB ATTACKS
MOSUL, Iraq -- Iraqi Police and Multinational Forces from the 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division (Stryker Brigade Combat Team) foiled four roadside bomb attacks Monday in northern Iraq. Iraqi Police foiled three roadside bomb attacks, two in the neighborhood of Al Thubat and one in the neighborhood of Al Noor, when they noticed suspicious items lying near the side of roads. Two of the devices consisted of a 122mm artillery round connected to a timer. In all three instances, the Iraqi Explosive Ordnance Disposal team successfully reduced the devices.
Soldiers from 3rd Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment also foiled a roadside bomb attack 35 kilometers south of Mosul when they noticed wires protruding from the top of an object near the side of the road. The patrol cordoned off the area and reduced the device. No injuries were reported.
Rehabilitation of Old Generator Brings Electricity to 51,000 Homes By By MNF-I Public Affairs - Coalition Press Information Center
BAGHDAD — An electricity generator that had fallen into disrepair after two decades of neglect and war is back on line this morning in northern Iraq, producing enough electricity to service 51,000 Iraqi homes. The 17-Megawatt generator at the Mullah Abdullah Power Station in the Tameem Governorate is the sixth generator that Iraqi and U.S. engineers have brought on line this month. "This is very good news," said Raad Shalal, a senior Iraq Ministry of Electricity official. "This will help to reduce the shortage of electricity across the country."
Iraq and U.S. engineers have reduced the shortage this month, adding 169 Megawatts to the national grid bringing the national total to more than 5,300 Megawatts — enough to service 15.6 million Iraqi homes, which far exceeds the pre-war electricity level of 4,400 Megawatts. "We know how important electricity is to the safety and security of the Iraqi people, and we continue to work on their behalf with the Ministry to bring the country additional electricity," said Lt. Col Jeffery Ogden, the director of the Corp's Restore Iraqi Electricity Directorate. "We continue to work in partnership with the Ministry of Electricity and the Iraqi people to bring more electricity to the country."
Despite the addition of power to the country's national grid, the demand for electricity in Iraq continues to grow, according to a fact sheet published by the Iraq Ministry of Electricity. "With more than half a million new jobs created, new industries and new factories coming on line and with the sale of thousands of home appliances such as washing machines and air conditioners, Iraq has experienced a rapid increase in electricity demand," the fact sheet reads. "The increase in demand is a good sign of a thriving economy emerging from three decades of isolation." Since beginning its work in the country nearly a year ago, the Corps has added an additional 1,541 Megawatts to the Iraqi national grid.
Funny, the MSM must have missed this one. Well, no, it's not.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/01/2004 1:40:13 PM ||
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#1
Bush can mention this and many other stats on Thursday, such as the revised ed. curriculum. He should mention problems, too, but say how they will get fixed.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
09/01/2004 14:38 Comments ||
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Israel's military has targeted senior insurgency operatives in the Gaza Strip. The operatives were deemed as leading figures in the Palestinian missile strikes from the northern Gaza Strip against Israeli civilian targets. More than a dozen people have been injured in Palestinian missile strikes on the Israeli city of Sderot over the past two weeks. On Thursday, Palestinian sources said an Israel Air Force AH-64A Apache attack helicopter fired a missile toward the home of Shadi Abu Awamer in Gaza City. Awamer, a Fatah operative, was killed and several others were injured. Israeli military sources refused to confirm the attack and said Awamer was killed in an explosion in his apartment.
"A helicopter, y'say? Yer sure it was ours? What color was it?... Uhuh... And how many rotor blades?..."
They described Awamer as a key organizer of the development and production of the Nasser-3 short-range missile. The Nasser-3 has been described as an enhanced version of the Hamas-developed Kassam.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/01/2004 12:31:41 PM ||
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#1
The IDF has used great restraint in pinpoint targeting of Hamas senior leaders, in a controlled retaliation for attacks on Israel. With the last two bus bombings, it is apparant that this policy is no longer working. So, two things have to be done:
1. Complete the Wall in the rest of the West Bank.
2. Carry out an overwhelming campaign against Hamas leaders, including actions against show of force funerals with lots of RPG-toting terrorists, and car swarms.
The actions-consequences scenario just does not work with these terrorists.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/01/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#2
1. One bombing in six months is NOT a sign of failure. 100% success rate is a very high hurdle, and not necessarily worth major strategic risks to achieve
2. In the north nearly 100% success has been achieved.
Actions 1. Complete the fence 2. Continue with other actions as currently, including pinpoint targeting. 3. Continue plans for withdrawl from Gaza, which is apparently a threat to Hamas.
#4
take the fight to Lebanon and Syria. The Chechen school op in Russia will harden world opinion against Islamists, as will the execution of the Nepales and French in Iraq...time to expand ops
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/01/2004 19:30 Comments ||
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The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld the 20-year prison sentence of a Chechen woman convicted in an apparently aborted suicide bombing attempt on Tverskaya Ulitsa in downtown Moscow, Interfax reported. Zarema Muzhikhoyeva was arrested in July 2003 after her strange behavior attracted the attention of security guards at a restaurant, and a bomb was found in her bag. A bomb expert was brought in to defuse it, but it went off and killed him.
I'd guess that was why her sentence was upheld...
A Moscow court found her guilty of terrorism, attempted murder and illegal possession of explosives, and sentenced her in April to 20 years in prison. Muzhikhoyeva's lawyers appealed the ruling, asking the Supreme Court to quash the sentence and send the case back to the court for a new trial. They cited her aid to the investigation in their request for leniency, news agencies reported.
I think she should only be jugged until the guy's not dead anymore, but maybe that's just me...
Based on testimony after her arrest, security officials located a house in the Moscow region where bombers' explosives were assembled. Interfax did not give the court's reasons for rejecting the appeal.
Maybe they should ask the dead guy...
Posted by: Fred ||
09/01/2004 12:17:55 PM ||
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RIA Novosti commentator Vyacheslav Lashkul
Chechen terrorists have committed another crime, this time in the North Ossetian town of Beslan, where they seized School No 1 during a ceremony to mark the start of the new academic year. The hostage-takers are demanding that Russian forces be withdrawn from Chechnya and convicted terrorists be set free.
On August 24, two airliners crashed in Russia. Although the suspected suicide bombers who blew up the planes were Chechens, the international extremist group the Islambouli Brigades">Islambuli Brigades, with apparent ties to al-Qaeda, claimed responsibility for the attack. Two explosions have also recently rocked Moscow; the first was at a bus stop and the second happened yesterday outside Rizhskaya metro station.
Below, the general director of the National Anti-Criminal and Anti-Terrorist Foundation, Oleg Nechiporenko, comments on these tragic events:
"In essence, this confirms what we have long been telling the world: the separatists in the Caucasus, in particular, the Chechen Republic, maintain links with international terrorists. According to the Regional Headquarters for the Counter-Terrorist Operation in the North Caucasus, bandit groups led by Aslan Maskhadov and Shamil Basayev include foreign mercenaries who fought in Osama bin Laden's units in Afghanistan.
"According to notes found on the body of the warlord Oybek 'Uzbek' Rakhimov, his own band, which was subordinated to Maskhadov, at one point included the Egyptians Mohammed Islambuli and Mustafa Hamza. They were both from the inner circle of Ayman al-Zawahiri, an aide to Osama bin Laden and an al-Qaeda leader. Uzbek had been in charge of distributing money among the militants, and Islambuli and Hamza's financial accounts were found on him among other documents. This means that Chechen fighters are also sponsored by international Islamic extremist organisations.
"According to an authoritative anti-terrorism expert and the director of London's Al-Makrizi Islamic centre, Akhmed Al-Subaimi, the Islambuli Brigades, the group that has claimed responsibility for the crashes of the Tu-134 and Tu-154 airliners and for the explosion outside Rizhskaya metro station in Moscow, is apparently a Chechen militant organisation with links to al-Qaeda. The group's name emerged after an assassination attempt on Shaukat Aziz, a candidate for the post of Pakistan's prime minister.
"The terrorists took the name for their organization from Haled Islambuli, a lieutenant in the Egyptian army who organised the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat on October 6, 1981. He and his accomplices were convicted by an Egyptian court and executed.
"Various extremist organisations - in Chechnya, the Balkans and Southeast Asia - have taken on the name Islambuli. They often changed their names to throw security services off their trail. Some experts say that Haled's brother Mohammed is in charge of the Islambuli Brigades.
"Following the arrest and execution of Islambuli and his fellow conspirators, Egypt adopted Law No. 162 on the state of emergency in the country, which remains in force to this day. It has enabled the state to arrest and convict hundreds of extremists and ban various illegal religious organisations. The country's experience has proved that such measures are effective: Egypt has not fallen victim to any major terrorist attacks in the past seven years."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/01/2004 11:25:56 AM ||
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#3
I once thought the Russians should back out of Chechnya. There is nothing to gain there and its become a brutal fight. Perhaps they could have done so two or three weeks ago, but it'd be impossible now without encouraging the terrorists.
Russia should join the War on Terror full force. They should send troops to Iraq to learn how the US works with so few casualties and the should attempt to duplicate the strategies in Chechnya.
A U.S. military intelligence report says that followers of radical Shi'ite cleric Sheik Muqtada al-Sadr imprisoned, killed and mutilated Iraqis who opposed his insurrection.
Not that he'd do the same if he were ever to take power...
American intelligence officers are now investigating in the town of Najaf, the site of Sheik al-Sadr's bloody standoff with coalition forces. A U.S. military officer told The Washington Times that the command recently acquired photos of 15 to 20 mutilated bodies that appear to be Iraqis lying in a courtyard. A written U.S. intelligence report, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Times, puts the body count much higher, based on an Iraqi informant, some of whose information was confirmed by local police. The report said that after last week's truce, Iraqi forces moved into buildings held by the radical cleric's Mahdi's Army militia and found the bodies. "Inside the court building, Iraqi police found approximately 200 mutilated bodies taken by the Moqtada militia for speaking out against Moqtada al Sadr," said the intelligence report sent to the Pentagon and stamped "secret." "Some of the prisoners had eyes and ears drilled out and others had their limbs and heads cut off. Some males had genitals cut off and shoved in their mouths. There was evidence of rape to men, women and children," according to the report.
Yes, Religion Of Peace, indeed
The senior officer, who asked to remain anonymous, said that the number of bodies found is much less than 200. The source said that while it appears certain that the bodies exist, the circumstances of when and where the people were killed, and by whom, remained unknown yesterday. "We don't have a complete picture of where they came from," the officer said. "We're trying to uncover what really happened before we are able to release information." The source said that the U.S. command in Baghdad only learned of the deaths Sunday, and later acquired the photographs of mutilated bodies. "There appears to be a large group of bodies that were uncovered," the officer said. He said that a military-intelligence unit was in Najaf investigating the deaths, alongside Iraqi police. Sheik al-Sadr has led several deadly uprisings in southern Iraq, unleashing his rifle-toting, ragtag army on coalition forces and innocent civilians. U.S. Army and Marine units have responded by attacking and killing scores of the fighters.
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Posted by: Steve ||
09/01/2004 10:21:21 AM ||
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#1
Ya got it wrong. The cult of allan-worship is the "Religion of Pieces".
#3
A U.S. military intelligence report says that followers of radical Shi'ite cleric Sheik Muqtada al-Sadr imprisoned, killed and mutilated Iraqis who opposed his insurrection.
And the current Iraqi leadership wants this turd to be part of the political process????
#4
BAR-Once again, bullseye-Savage murders done by a military wing of a "political party". Sure are getting sophisticated in Iraq, aren't they? Wonder who they are learning this definition of political participation from?
A senior aide to radical Iraqi Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr was assassinated on the road between the holy city of Najaf and Baghdad, an official from the movement said Wednesday. Sayed Bashir al-Jazaeri was killed Tuesday when his car came under fire as he was returning from Najaf, which was until recently the scene of fierce fighting between US forces and Sadr's militia. Jazaeri headed one of Sadr's local offices near the capital, said Sayed Naim al-Qaabi. The cleric told AFP the attack might have been perpetrated by Kurdish hit squads extremist Sunni Muslim organisations Iranian controllers cutting links or former members of Saddam Hussein's regime, and accused the government of failing to provide security in this area south of Baghdad. "Even the Iraqi government said that lots of important personalities were targeted in this area. Why is it doing nothing about it?", he asked.
Cuz the right people are dying?
On the other hand, every once in awhile a member of the Iraqi gummint gets bumped off, so why should Tater's thugs be special?
On Wednesday morning, Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi told reporters as he prepared to take the oath at the interim parliament's opening session that he had just escaped an assassination attempt on the same road. The cities of Laitifiya, Mahmudiya and Iskandariya command access to the road which runs south of Baghdad to the holy Shiite cities of Najaf and Karbala.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/01/2004 9:44:08 AM ||
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The tuber himself next, hopefully.
Strike a blow for democracy - take out dic-Taters before they have a chance to root!
The attackers who raided a school in Russia's North Ossetia autonomous republic are now demanding the withdrawal of Russian troops from the republic of Chechnya, where small groups of rebels are still fighting for independence, ITAR-TASS reported Wednesday. They are also demanding the release of terrorists who were arrested in the republic of Ingushetia in June following a terrorist attack on police stations there, and that the President of Ingushetia Murat Zyazikov and a well-known Moscow-based pediatrician Leonid Roshal arrive at the school building for talks. Roshal represented the government as a negotiator during the siege of a Moscow theater in 2002
Earlier in the morning armed and masked attackers took up to 400 people hostage, including 200 children. The attack happened on the first day of the Russian school year when many parents escort their children to school. Russian President Vladimir Putin has cut short his holiday and returned to Moscow from the Black Sea resort of Sochi due to the hostage crisis. He held a meeting with Russia's top law enforcement officials at the Vnukovo airport in Moscow a few minutes after his arrival. Putin looked alarmed and disturbed when shown on Russian television meeting with Nikolai Patrushev, the director of the Federal Security Service. Putin did not make any statements to the media.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 9:35:42 AM ||
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#1
I think we should storm the Moskkk in Fraudi Arabia, and hold that big square rock hostage, until Islam agrees to withdraw from the rest of the world. Suicide will suffice in most cases. Let's see how they like being held hostage.
#3
Maybe the Russians need to start taking out the Chechen terrorists that they have in custody if the terrorists at the school do not give themselves up.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/01/2004 11:19 Comments ||
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#4
Maybe the Russians should take their own Chechyan hostages out in front of the school when they do it, so the guys inside know exactly what and why.
#6
Perhaps now would be a good time for Secretary Powell to let it be known that the US has nearly zero interest in the rogue state of Chechnya, and yes I hear ya Aris.
#7
Hostage-takers demand Russian withdrawl from Chechnya
If there was one single act that could have galvanized Russian support for the extermination of all Chechen separatists, they managed to find it.
#1I think we should storm the Moskkk in Fraudi Arabia, and hold that big square rock hostage, until Islam agrees to withdraw from the rest of the world. Suicide will suffice in most cases. Let's see how they like being held hostage.
I've been shouting this from the rooftops here at Rantburg for some time now. Either we declare a policy of retaliation in kind against the Saudi shrines, or we take these sites by force and hold them hostage to disrupt each and every Haj until there is a 24 month period free of Islamist terrorism.
Due to the decentralized and transnational nature of global terrorism, this represents one of the only levers that will apply pressure on each and every single Islamist. Moderate Muslims will finally come to understand that there is a palpable price for inaction against the violent jihadists within their ranks. Either they do something about it or face being denied one of the five pillars of their faith.
Far too many resources that rightfully should be directed towards eliminating famine, illiteracy, disease and human rights abuse are instead being squandered on combating an incredibly assymmetrical attack waged by the most heinous foes to be seen since Nazi Germany. Just as Islam remains unable to collectively condemn terrorism as a whole, it may well be time to make them suffer as a whole for this unforgivable moral lapse. All I know is that it is costing our planet TRILLIONS of dollars to fight this minuscule but virulent enemy. This is an utterly obscene diversion of vitally needed resources and requires that we find an alternative method of deterrance. As always, I'm happy to consider any other suggestions that would achieve the same end more effectively.
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistani security forces have arrested two "important" al Qaeda operatives, including an Egyptian, a senior official said on Wednesday.
Must have run out of "masterminds".
"Important" is a rank -- Lieutenant Important, Important, Very Important, Junior Assistant Mastermind, Associate Mastermind, Major Mastermind, Lieutenant Mastermind ...
The pair, one of who was identified as Sharif ul Misri, were arrested in the southwestern city of Quetta on Monday, said Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, information minister in Pakistan's outgoing cabinet who is expected to be renamed to the post on Wednesday. "These are important people," Ahmed told Reuters, adding that ul Misri had a price on his head. He did not say who had offered the reward for ul Misri's capture and he is not among the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation's most wanted terrorists. Ul Misri means "from Egypt" in Arabic.
Perhaps the Egyptians want to have a talk with him.
Ahmed said investigations were under way to ascertain the identity of the other man. "They keep on changing their names and aliases and it takes some time to establish. But we have identified Sharif ul Misri," he said.
"Sometimes, even they can't remember who they are"
Posted by: Steve ||
09/01/2004 9:18:25 AM ||
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#1
A Saudi national with explosives, what are the odds of that?
About 60-40, I'd say.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 13:12 Comments ||
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#2
Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan, the chief army spokesman, confirmed the arrests. In an interview with the state-run Pakistan Television, Sultan said one of the suspects was "at a pretty high level" in al-Qaida and was an expert and trainer in explosives, though he didn't identify him.
That would most likely be our Saudi friend, Hakeem
Posted by: Steve ||
09/01/2004 14:35 Comments ||
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#3
Are there any Field Marshals in any-istan? Jeez. "Field Marshal al-Mastermind"
Here at least we had "Field Marshal Cinque of the Symbionese Liberation Army". Slackers.
#4
Hadn't thought of Cinque in years. The SLA should be revamped (transformed) into the modern Symbionese Liberation Army for Preaching and Posturing.
Or The SLAP&PeePee for short. An excellent name for a short-line leading to nowhere.
The attackers who took up to 400 children and adults hostage in Russia's North Ossetia earlier Wednesday have refused to talk with the leader of the Muslim community in the region, Mufti Ruslan Valgatov, the Itar-Tass newsagency said. "He is trying to establish a contact with the terrorists," Itar-Tass quoted officials in the city of Beslan as saying. The attackers, however, refused to negotiate with Valgatov and insisted on talks with the president of Russia's North Ossetia republic. North Ossetia is predominantly Christian but has a small Muslim community. The adults and school children were kept captive when about 25 to 30 attackers with explosive belts and guns stormed the school in a covered truck of the type often used for troop transport. The attackers warned that they would blow up the school in Beslan if police tried to enter the school. The hostages were rounded up in the school gym and ordered to face the floor, according to Itar-Tass. Attackers threw a video tape out of the window, demanding the release of all terrorists arrested in the raids in Russia's Ingushetia republic on June 21-22.
At least three civilians were killed during the seizure in the region bordering the volatile Chechnya, a duty officer at the regional Interior Ministry was quoted by Itar-Tass as saying. "One body lies near the entrance and two others are on a road near the fence," he said, adding that the militants opened fire as people tried to approach to recover the bodies. The footage on television channel NTV showed attackers in camouflage with guns control positions around the school and othermen in civilian dress with light automatic rifles pace nervously. It also showed a girl in a floral dress and a red bow in her hair run around a corner after escaping from the school, which just opened again after the summer vacation. Up to 50 children, who had apparently hidden during the seizure, managed to escape from the school, Itar-Tass said. Just before the seizure, a large number of parents had accompanied their children to a ceremony marking the start of a new school year. Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin cut short his seaside holiday on Wednesday and headed back to Moscow. The Interfax news agency quoted the Kremlin as saying that Putin had discussed the crisis with his interior minister and the head of the FSB security service.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
09/01/2004 9:15:58 AM ||
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#1
good for the Russians. But I'm not sure that simply denying their demands will have the long-term impact of reducing these horrific crimes.
These terrorists don't really have a particular goal in mind other than to express their rage.
Oh, sure, they say it's for Jihad...but these AQ jihadi's are really just glorified serial killers; they are more interested in the headlines and the fact that they can make the greatest powers in the world feel helpless next to their actions.
Just like serial killers, they will just keep ratcheting up the horror level until they are stopped. There are no demands that can be met that would ever stop their quest for blood.
I don't have answers...just musing out loud.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 11:30 Comments ||
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So sez Asia Times anyway
According to Asia Times Online contacts in the south, the Lebanese Shi'ite militia Hezbollah has deeply infiltrated Basra and surrounding areas, so much so that it virtually runs the province, with the help of Shi'ite militias, and is committed to establishing vilayat-e-faqih (rule by the religious clergy according to the Shi'ite faith). Most of Iraq's eligible males received military training under the Ba'ath rule of Saddam Hussein, and now the Shi'ite militias have equipped them with arms and ammunition. According to the contacts, much of this activity is being bankrolled through "welfare funds" ostensibly given to mosques and shrines by Iranian intelligence. Also, Iranian Shi'ites are said to be flooding across the porous border in their thousands, including Iranian revolutionary guards, who have already established pockets, especially in Ammarah and Basra. The former residence of the governor of Basra..is now being used by Iranian intelligence under the cover of the Sayyed al-Shohada political party. The party is like many Shi'ite militias and calls itself a branch of the al-Majlis al-Alla (Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution in Iraq - SCIR) led by Ayatollah Abdul Aziz al-Hakim. However, the office bearers of the organization are not known to local Iraqis, and are generally believed to be Iranian.
The Iraqi Hezbollah now has its headquarters right in the middle of Basra, in the old police headquarters. The police have offices in a new building in front of the Shatul Arab waterway. The Iraqi Hezbollah has also established a powerful branch in Ammarah. This combination of Shi'ite militias (reinforced with Iranians) and Iranian intelligence in Basra and Ammarah is taking place under the watchful eyes of the British, who are responsible for security in the south, but they are reluctant to precipitate a major clash, so have kept their distance. These Iranian supported-militias are one part of the Shi'ite political puzzle. There are, of course, other key pieces, notably Muqtada, who if nothing else has earned himself a reputation for opportunism and unpredictability.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/01/2004 8:06:35 AM ||
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#1
I wouldn't be surprised. British troops have shamefully allowed no-go areas to become established in large parts of Basra where God-knows-what is going on. Presumably this is because:
a) the British forces are inadequate (undermanned and underequipped - the Landrovers, nifty though they are, are death traps for patrolling in urban areas where IEDs are the enemy's weapon of choice).
b) Blair won't risk the political damage that greater numbers of British casualties would cause, so he's ordered our troops to pretty much remain on base.
Something needs to be done to rescue the situation before Basra gets out of hand entirely.
#4
No need to occupy, just need to blow that power station into a million pieces. Can't have someone who thinks he has a hotline to Allan with his finger on the red button. I believe the Iranian people will eventually get fed up with constant subjugation from a leadership with a stone-age mindset and do the job themselves.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/01/2004 9:08 Comments ||
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#5
"...I believe the Iranian people will eventually get fed up...."
We can't wait for that to happen, resolution on Iraq which was also written in 1998 has been carried out and we must act before too many Americans die there and the country loses the will to fight.
#6
Getting Iraq and Afghanistan straightened out with fledgling democracies may be the catalyst we need.. direct action highly improbable unless the mullahs act first. I think that this would be an opportune moment to reinforce Basra with the Ghurkas.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/01/2004 9:35 Comments ||
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#7
Unfortunately, I don't think we have the time to let Iranians take the initiative, either. Half-to-most of the problems we're having in Iraq are Iran-sponsored, which is costing coalition lives and jeopardising Iraq's future, whilst Iran itself is thundering on towards arming itself with nuclear technology. At the moment, the sands of time are running in Iran's favour. We need to turn that sand on its head.
#8
Daily Telegraph article implied a firm cordon around central Basra, with Brit troops responding with deadly force to attacks on them, resulting in significant baddie casualties. Apparently quite similar to the USMC approach in Fallujah. Talks of deal with Sadrists in Basra, parallel to talks of deal in Sadr City - no clear confirmation in either case.
#9
UFO: We can't wait for that to happen, resolution on Iraq which was also written in 1998 has been carried out and we must act before too many Americans die there and the country loses the will to fight.
UFO hopes that Uncle Sam will lose the will to fight, even while he himself cannot summon the will to fight for the other side. This is why UFO's jihadi pals will fail - because guys like UFO are all talk and no action. UFO really needs to go to the nearest mosque and donate to the friendly local jihadi charity so that they won't have to kidnap innocent civilians for ransom.
#10
Which DT article, Lh? I'm guessing not recent. From the balance of what I've heard in the last few weeks, the situation in Basra has deteriorated significantly. I'm sure the British forces are responding to attacks with deadly force, but the fact seems to be that they're restricting their movements so as to avoid confrontation and keep it to a minimum.
#11
A couple of days ago - it ALSO suggested that the brit forces ARE staying out of central Basra, and that the anti-Sadr elements in Basra are unhappy with this, and hinted that its about keeping casualties down. No offensive. But still not different from US approach in Anbar province.
#13
Lh - do you mean this piece? A mixed bag of good and bad news; e.g. the good:
"With special forces operating in the city, the Army has gathered enough intelligence on the key leaders of the estimated 400 insurgents to "take them out if we want to", but the ultimate decision to retake Basra by force rests with Downing Street, according to military sources."
...and the bad:
""These last three weeks have been very difficult for us," said Arrif, 26, a teacher. "It is not safe to go out on the street because there are bombs and shootings. We are afraid the situation will escalate and that this will affect the economy because people cannot go to work. The majority of Basra people want the Army to enter the city." Other residents in the city centre echoed this view, blaming the violence on the lack of British presence. "The people are living from hand to mouth, struggling every day to get food," said Wa'il, 24, a student of English. "People in Basra blame the British forces for this situation. They want them to deploy outside their barracks because this would get rid of the Mahdi army."
It's a deterioration relative to three months ago, for sure, but not hopeless.
#15
I don't know why everyone is worried. As soon as Israel wants, it will take out the nuke plants to solve that part of the puzzle. I think it's good it the Brits don't engage. If the whole country blew up it would hurt Bush's chance for relection.
Lastly, when the roach motel is finally full and they start trouble the Brits with US Air support will crush them.
The papers made Najaf sound like Bataan for us when, in fact, Tater and his Tots got the worse end of that fight.
While hundreds of Palestinians took to the streets in major cities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to celebrate the double suicide bombings in Beersheba, Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat reiterated his call for sacrificing millions of martyrs to liberate Jerusalem. Women in Nablus ululated in joy as Arab satellite TV stations interrupted their normal programs to break the news of the bombings. Scores of gunmen opened fire into the air, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" or God is Great. Similar expressions of joy were reported in Tulkarm and Jenin. I thought everyone in Jenin was dead? No? Could the BBC have been wrong?
#5
I have a feeling Gentle felt NO disgust at reading about the hundreds of Palestinians [who] took to the streets in major cities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to celebrate the double suicide bombings or that Women in Nablus ululated in joy as Arab satellite TV stations interrupted their normal programs to break the news of the bombings
No disgust and revulsion at the perpetrators of this attack on INNOCENT CIVILIANS, some of whom probably agree with her on certain topics.
No disgust and revulsion at the use of such tactics.
No disgust that her own people found this worthy of celebration. That they find support in their holy book for such actions. The bombing of a bus is a holy endeavor and to be celebrated. How revolting a culture they have created for themselves.
Yet, I wonder what her response will be when Israel goes after the perpetrators (who will likely hide amongst innocent civilians themselves!)?
Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat reiterated his call for sacrificing millions of martyrs to liberate Jerusalem. Well, that settles that, don't it!
Bryan: I thought the same--had to to a double-take on "uluated in joy."
This morning at the grocerty store I saw a photo of the bombing on the front page of NYT--a little kid with a backpack on, hanging out the window, dead, and I thought about how much the Paleos remind me of a group of bad alien-like apes. Their socialization is all wrong, and all they want is to follow leaders and idolize them--make them larger than life. What a bunch of losers. (No offense to real apes intended.)
#7
Chairman Yasser Arafat reiterated his call for sacrificing millions of martyrs. . .
"You dumb Al-Axha Suckers Brigade folks keep up blowing out your guts for me. He he he. I will stay safe here in my shrinking building (Damn Jew Mortars) in my West Bank HQ."
#9
One eyewitness to a recent bombing reported seeing the bus lifted into the air, so powerful was the explosion. A report on another bombing mentioned that one woman died in her seat with her legs still crossed.
And the Paleos celebrate in the streets. It really is obscene.
A couple of other thoughts. On Russert many months ago, Kerry declared that Israel had the right to defend itself, including wall and targeted killings. Bravo. The article's references to how this could have been a Hamas (or was it Hizbullah?) operation in order to embarrass PA/Arafat in its negotiations with Hizbullah (or was it Hamas?) in how to rule Gaza after pullout is instructive on the futility of nuance in the ME arena. Another gem: The bombing may have been a rogue Hamas cell operation, supported logistically by Hizbullah-local team or Hizbullah-Iranian team, with an ax to grind vs. Arafat. Or was it the other way around? Is your head spinning yet?
Unfortunately, Israel is where Kerry draws the line and why Bush gets my vote. Go for the bad guys whether they be in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Leb, WB and Gaza, etc. Be patient, be smart. Militarily or financially. With help of other countries or not. With help of allied groups in a certain country or not.
W, Condi, Rummy, our military have so much on their plates that I gaze in amazement at what they have accomplished in the teeth of the most vociferous anti-war, American self-loathing, LLL groups since LBJ.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
09/01/2004 15:27 Comments ||
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I couldn't find a URL on the BBC radio World Service report - possibly because it's not on the web. The URL is for the written report by the same journalist - Jon Leyne - and is a bit more innocent than the radio version, which went as follows:
"This was....the end of a summer of relative calm in Israel. The Israeli government believes that respite was the result of the controversial barrier now being built in and around the West Bank."
Translation from BBC-speak to ordinary language is necessary to understand the subtleties of the BBC's anti-Israel stance:
"Believes" — The BBC cannot bring itself to concede that the barrier has been extremely successful in stemming terror.
Translation: The Israelis are misguided in their belief that the barrier prevents attacks.
The report continues:
"Spokesmen were quick to point out that the latest attack happened near a section where the barrier has yet to be built."
"Quick to point outâŠ." — The BBC would like us to believe that the Israeli spokesmen saw this as an opportunity to defend the barrier when they were probably just reacting with shock and horror to this inhuman double-bombing and simply mentioned that the barrier could have prevented it.
Translation: The Israelis take every opportunity (even a bombing as horrific as this) to try to gain sympathy and score political points.
The PC brigade at the BBC should ponder the following question:
Is the BBC so devoid of humanity where Israelis are concerned that it cannot produce a factual report of a brutal terrorist attack without lacing it with subtle, insulting innuendo?
Posted by: Bryan ||
09/01/2004 6:43:07 AM ||
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#1
I must do something about this computer illiteracy of mine. Here's the above-mentioned URL. Hopefully it will work:
#4
Whilst a staunch defender of the Beeb's existence (sport wihout commercials), a fan of their journalism I am not, (my views have recently changed after similar analysis, Bryan). Maddening isn't it?
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/01/2004 8:32 Comments ||
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#5
Yes. BBC Watch (www.bbcwatch.com) does an excellent job keeping track of the Beeb's excesses and trying to get them to live up to their charter.
Translation of the rest of the article: The bombing was timed to coincide with the announcement of the upcoming scheduled vote in parliament to withdraw from Gaza. A protest of useful idiots seems to have been quickly (previously?) organized to appear at the bombing site. No mention of just how sick the concept of protesting at a site of carnage and horror really is.
While the idea for a pullout was previously unpopular, it is now currently popular enough to carry a vote. The BBC strangely wants to leave the reader with the impression that this bombing will increase political dissent over this issue, despite common sense dictating this will most likely further Israeli desire to disentangle themselves from the Palestinians.
#9
Read the Collected Essays of George Orwell and "Sword of Honor" trilogy by Evelyn Waugh (90% sure of the author) and you will see the only difference between the chattering classes of Britain of today and then is that then the discussion concerned communism and today it's terrorism. So helpful for one's reading skills in interpreting MSM.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
09/01/2004 15:37 Comments ||
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#1
Huh. Wonder why they thought there was a connection.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 7:54 Comments ||
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#2
Nepalese Muslim groups have condemned the killings saying the "inhuman act is against Islam".
By thier silence, the Islamic groups of Nepal and elsewhere allow this stuff to happen, and when it get's out of control, they don't see they are just as responsible as the idiot's who did this.
#5
Plainslow: âthey don't see they are just as responsible as the idiot's who did thisâ
No, they arenât âjust as responsibleâ. The terrorists who did it are bloody murders. The Muslims who donât speak out are in denial that their religion encourages and harbors bloody murders. Or in some communities they may be Muslims who fear to speak out because they are intimidated by those who do support bloody murders. Or they are members of Muslim communities that neither encourage nor condone violence toward non-Muslims and feel no connection with or responsibility for the sects that do support terrorism.
Muslims who donât speak out against terrorists are somewhat to blame for the poor global reputation of Islam just as those on Rantburg who fail to condemn extreme statements such as those by Plainslow are responsible for pushing moderate Muslims toward radicals.
#6
I'm sure every harsh comment on Rantburg creates another jihadi. The actual contents of the Quran aren't nearly as important as rude comments on the Internet.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 9:39 Comments ||
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#7
Anon5032-What extreme statement did plainslow make?
#8
Jules: âWhat extreme statement did plainslow make?â
Plainslow: âthey don't see they are just as responsible as the idiot's who did thisâ
This statement is similar to the moral equivalence that the LLLâs use to blame the US for all deaths in Iraq. Or those who compare the abuse at Abu Ghraib with the torture perpetrated by Saddam.
Yes, people who fail to speak out against evil are contributing to evil. That does not make them equally evil.
I know nothing about the Nepalese Muslim groups. If they only spoke out against terrorism after they felt the blow back from the Iraq murders then the Nepalese Muslim groups do bear some very small responsibility. But they arenât âjust as responsibleâ. And if extremists in Nepal commit terrorism on Nepalese Muslims, those extremists will be evil. And if posters on Rantburg fail to speak out against that evil then to a very very small degree they are responsible for that evil.
I believe we are at war with radical Islam but I donât want my âsideâ to use LLL tactics.
#9
Peaceful Muslims need to take note. The worldâs patience is wearing really, really thin. I donât condone violence like this. But do Muslims really believe this wonât be the global outcome if they just sit back quietly and allow such horrors to be committed in the name of their religion?
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 10:25 Comments ||
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#10
Anon5032-Point taken-don't confuse murder with abetting. Got it.
BUT how long do you think the worldwide Muslim community will be able to claim violence is not promoted by Islam? It's the most macabre display of the King's New Clothes I've ever seen, and rantburgers, among others, aren't buying because the evidence is to the contrary. In Palestine, suicide bombings are cheered. In NYC, the murders of 3000 people are cheered. In Iraq, mutilation of American civilian contractor corpses are cheered. Year after year after year, violence is done in the name of Islam-Muslims talk about it, read about it, see it covered on TV...is it really a very small responsibility on their part for the thousands that have died in the name of their religion? Anyone on this site-what would you say is the proportion of Muslims worldwide, from those in positions of power covered daily on the media, as well as from everyday Joes, who demand their religion stop using violence to promote itself?
#11
Anyone on this site-what would you say is the proportion of Muslims worldwide, from those in positions of power covered daily on the media, as well as from everyday Joes, who demand their religion stop using violence to promote itself?
Less than one percent.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 10:51 Comments ||
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#12
Remember, those who are not Moslems in Nepal are Buddhists, who have more of a claim to "religion of peace".
You think what might happen here in the US if there is another terrorist attack?
#14
"The militants said the 12 Nepalis had been killed because they "came from their country to fight the Muslims and to serve the Jews and the Christians".
The Jews and the Christians-the Jews and the Christians-the Jews and the Christians-the Jews and the Christians-the Jews and the Christians-the Jews and the Christians-the Jews and the Christians-the Jews and the Christians-the Jews and the Christians.
This is what it's about for them. The Islmofacists think like this, and that's why there's no reasoning with them. Sometimes I think the majority of the rest don't know what to think, and sometimes I think their religion teaches them to take a back seat. Who knows. Interesting though, that it's not even a question for the Nepalese to take revenge and damage a mosque. I think the terrorists were stupid to start attacking third-world countries with their idiocy. Guess they want to start a world war, or some such thing.
#15
Jules: âBUT how long do you think the worldwide Muslim community will be able to claim violence is not promoted by Islam?â
I expect the worldwide Muslim community to continue to claim that Islam does not promote violence and I expect Bush to continue referring to Islam as the RoP. Condemning Islam isnât going to make radicals into moderates or turn moderate Muslims into Christians. Instead of condemning all Islam I believe the better strategy is to treat radical Islam as a deviant form of Islam that must be eradicated.
Islam is an aggressive religion. Even the milder forms are intolerant. The more extreme forms promote violence. The US must exert strong pressure to change Islamic society. It is happening. TV, movies, music, and the Internet are having a major impact. With the US to force open the societies and with time, I believe globalization will modernize the Muslim countries.
Schools in the ME and in Pakistan are revising textbooks and removing the more blatant incitements to hatred of non-Muslims. Madrassas that teach terrorism are being closed. Governments are cracking down on the most extreme clerics.
Unfortunately we may not have time. If we are unable to change the Islamic world the US will likely lose a city to a nuclear terrorist attack in the next decade. The probable US response is total war in which hundreds of millions of Muslims die. If moderate Muslims donât speak out against terrorism and fight the extremists in their societies, extremists and moderates alike will die.
Here in the US, if we are to avoid total war, we have to see Muslims as individuals, not as faceless terrorists. The West should support the moderates against the radicals. Burning mosques wonât do it. (Refusing to give into terror, refusing to accept Sharia Law, strongly encouraging integration into host countries, and encouraging moderates to denounce violence should help stop the radicals.)
As for the Palestiniansâ¦they may be a lost cause. Terrorism may be too strongly rooted in the culture to salvage most of the populace.
In Iraq, the moderates are fighting a civil war. Some Iraqis cheer the murder of US citizens. Others denounce attacks on our troops and join the IP. Many Iraqis are disgusted by the hostage takers. We need to treat our enemies as enemies and not treat potential friends as enemies.
#16
Islam is a Religion of Peace that supports and promotes its own Cult of Death. Fine, support the moderates. But make it clear that they need to take down their own David Koresh characters before they burn down the house.
#17
what would you say is the proportion of Muslims worldwide, from those in positions of power covered daily on the media, as well as from everyday Joes, who demand their religion stop using violence to promote itself?
most of them probably wouldnt phrase it that way, but Id say at least 80% oppose using violence for the general promotion of Islam. If you however were to ask how many were opposed to the use of terrorism for specific political causes they believe in, youd get a far lower number, probably well under than 50%.
Whats more important to are those, who whether out of principle or only out of their own personal or local self interest actively fight against terrorism and terrorists.
#18
Word. Refusal to condemn terror is what sets apart the muslim pathology. Arafat gave the world hijackings and unannounced, mass killings of random civilians as a political tactic. Only suicide bombers are condemned by the muslims will we know they're cleaning up their own house.
#19
Anon5032-Respectfully, this sounds like the approach we have been using (unsuccessfully) for some time.
But let's say we try your ideas. If they are to work, let's hash out JUST HOW? ...treat radical Islam as a deviant form of Islam that must be eradicated (who defines radical Islam-the West or Islam, and how will you ever get Muslims to agree to the eradication of radical Islam-what is the actual plan of action?)...The US must exert strong pressure to change Islamic society (like, for example, through the kind of sanctions our 'allies' bypassed in Oil for Food?, or another idea)...it is happening...TV, movies, music, and the Internet are having a major impact (like in France and the Netherlands, both of which have had mighty integration efforts and access to information and yet have hordes of Angry Muslim men raping teenage girls for skirts too short or "dishonorable dating". The Muslims there do NOT WANT to integrate)...
I think using the same soft-hearted tactics which are met with savage results is suicidal. Your argument looks an awful lot like what is being proposed for Sudan--the West talks talks talks, the Islamicists murder murder murder-UNTIL AN ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE IS DEAD.
If the West doesn't firmly address the problems in Islam, over time which group of people do you think will be dead? Not 1.3 billion Muslims. You ready to line up in the "Death to the West" extermination line?
I don't intend to be flippant, Anon5032, but we are past this approach now. I am not interested in understanding Muslims' plight because they distract us with it while they murder non-Muslims and Muslims alike; I am not interested in pleading with them for why I am justified to live on this earth alongside them-I need no religion's permission.
#21
I am not interested in pleading with them for why I am justified to live on this earth alongside them
I believe jules ought to laydown one of them TM things on that one.
#22
But let's say we try your ideas. If they are to work, let's hash out JUST HOW? ...treat radical Islam as a deviant form of Islam that must be eradicated (who defines radical Islam-the West or Islam,
Id trust Bernard Lewis and Daniel Pipes to do so, myself. Its not that hard really.
and how will you ever get Muslims to agree to the eradication of radical Islam-what is the actual plan of action?)
It varies from country to country, and includes killing and imprisoning the violent radicals, pressing for change in educational systems, empowering women, and occasionally knocking off a govt.
...The US must exert strong pressure to change Islamic society (like, for example, through the kind of sanctions our 'allies' bypassed in Oil for Food?, or another idea)
Other ideas
...it is happening...TV, movies, music, and the Internet are having a major impact (like in France and the Netherlands, both of which have had mighty integration efforts and access to information and yet have hordes of Angry Muslim men raping teenage girls for skirts too short or "dishonorable dating". The Muslims there do NOT WANT to integrate)...
My sense is the US does a much better job of integrating muslim immigrants than France - though even there there are groups of muslims who do want to integrate.
I think using the same soft-hearted tactics which are met with savage results is suicidal.
I think the admin has made major gains and will continue to do so.
Your argument looks an awful lot like what is being proposed for Sudan--the West talks talks talks, the Islamicists murder murder murder-UNTIL AN ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE IS DEAD.
the group currently victimized there are muslims. Murdered by Islamists. Thats the whole point Islamists != all muslims
#23
LH-OK you chose Pipes or Lewis; the 15 other members in the committee to decide each chose someone else. Resolution?
Of course I agree with you that "Islamicists" don't equal all Muslims, but where are the ones brave enough to defy accusations of heresy by calling their "brethren" radicals or murderers?
#24
where - there are tens of thousands in Iraq who defy the murderers everyday, whether by serving in the Iraqi forces, participating in the Iraqi govt, or working with coalition forces. Ditto in Afghanistan. There are algerians who have waged a knockdown dragout civil war with the murderers. There are police and intelligence forces and their political backers from Morocco to Turkey to Jordan to Indonesia.
Im not going to sit behind a computer terminal and call for muslims to make statements with words, when there are thousands of muslims paying with BLOOD in the war on the salafi-jihadi menace. If you learn anything from RB,from the detailed reports on Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq, Indonesia, North Africa, etc, all the joking references to truncheons and mustachios and coppers, you should learn that this is above all a civil war WITHIN Islam, one fought PRINCIPALLY on the ground by muslims on BOTH sides.
Im not to concerned about a single bright line definition of "radical Islam" Theres a range. We're better off if those willing to use genocidal violence against jews, christians, and nonradical muslims are killed. We are also better off if anyone who wants a sharia state loses power, EVEN if they are not interested in genocidal violence. WE are even more better off if islam goes beyond relative indifference to a sharia state, and actually sheds such features as oppression of women. With each broadening of what we want to achieve we lose allies - but not all must be achieved at once, and the goal is not the same everywhere. In Iraq Id like to see an almost secular state - in KSA id be content (for now) with a complete turning away from support for AQ, and from education for AQ ideology. KSA isnt Iraq, and goals that make sense in one place dont in the other. A position thats intensely fundamentalist by Iraqi (or Turkish, or Indonesian) standards looks positively modernist in the magic kingdom, or in the Pashtun parts of Afghanistan.
#25
You know, if Muslims hadn't attacked the US they wouldn't be in this problem. These stupid Islamonazis have picked a fight significantly out of their weight class. It was their bad timing not to have a Bill Clinton or John Kerry to say "no mas" and make speeches. They declared holy war when America was led by a man who recognized it as such. They call the armies of the West crusaders, but there would have been no crusaders if the armies of Islam hadn't overrun the heartland of Christianity. The armies of the West today aren't there to conquer land and establish empires. They are there simply to make sure that the armies of Islam LEAVE US THE F**K ALONE!
Posted by: Random thoughts ||
09/01/2004 15:53 Comments ||
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#26
In the spirit of an off-the-cuff comment, why don't we see how long a list of Muslim leaders we can come up with who denounce as evil and against Islam acts of violence and bigotry:
1.) Terrorist acts (we'll need a definition-LH, maybe you can get the ball rolling on that)
2.) Executions for heresy/apostasy
3.) Honor killings
3.) Wife beatings
4.) Rape and other sex crimes (Infibulation/clitoredectomies, etc.)
5.) ?????
This list should probably have some positives too:
Moderate Islam supports:
1.) Religious diversity and freedom
2.) Racial equality
3.) Equal rights under the law for women and men(divorce, property, child custody, freedom of employment, freedom of speech)
OK-Two possible Muslim candidates for the list, both of whom have been featured on this site-sorry their names escape me-the Canadian Muslim woman who wrote abook with a title like What is Wrong with Islam; the Somali lady featured on the site yesterday. Maybe we can get them to start off this list of moderates willing to avow these statements publicly, as Muslims.
Also should probably start a pool on how high the number will get. I'm betting out of 1.3 B Muslims, maybe 100.
#27
Lh - Ya have to watch those relativist notions. The Caliphate types don't share your tolerance or adjusted response from locale to locale.
Rt - nicely put... but since they won't then we can't leave THEM alone. They take the paths of least resistance, for the most part. When they finally do mount another direct attack with multiple deaths on Americans, especially if it's clearly another Us vs Them attack within the US, I hope the gloves come off in all venues.
#28
where - there are tens of thousands in Iraq who defy the murderers everyday, whether by serving in the Iraqi forces, participating in the Iraqi govt, or working with coalition forces. Ditto in Afghanistan. There are algerians who have waged a knockdown dragout civil war with the murderers. There are police and intelligence forces and their political backers from Morocco to Turkey to Jordan to Indonesia. Straight question-are the people you list fighting against radical Islam or simply against aggression?
#29
Lh - Ya have to watch those relativist notions. The Caliphate types don't share your tolerance or adjusted response from locale to locale.
its not "relativism" dot com - it aint that Sadr is a fundamentalist idiot from a "Western patriarchal perspective" but a "true hero" from "the viewpoint of the oppressed, or similar bullshit. Its just strategy and realism - our pal Sistani wants (for the sake of arguement, though i think its correct) a state where Islam is the law of the land, where selling booze is illegal, where inheritance and divorce are under Sharia except for registered non-muslims(and woe to you if you WERE a muslim and claim to no longer be one). BUT he would allow different forms of Islam, the practice of non-muslim religions, a more or less free press, and would have the laws be passed by elected politicians, not by a body of mullahs with a formal role in govt. If this were proposed in Turkey say it would be a MAJOR step backward, to be opposed with all energy. In Iran it would be a step forward, albeit an inadequate one. In KSA it would be an almost unimaginable leap forward, would it not be, dot com?? In Iraq it may be something we have to settle for, or maybe not if all goes well.
Its no more relativism than realizing you fight differently in the mountains than you do on the beaches.
As for our enemies not making fine distinctions, that is their weakness. Thats why they keep blowing networks, and making needless enemies.
#30
Jules: In your question, you use the verb "demand they stop using violence to promote itself". I really hate to parse, but I'll summarize all in the end.
1. I'm an average Joe Moroccan Muslim and violence perpetrated by Muslims takes place in a non-majority Muslim country, eg the Madrid bombings, which was pretty much perpetrated by Moroccans. I sigh, I shake my head, I'm embarassed. This is sick, this is bad. If I'm especially energetic, I might even write a letter to a newspaper expressing regret and demand in it that all Muslims need to follow the precepts of Islam, which, of course, prohibits the killing of innocents. That's the extent of my action. But get disgusted enough to tell the worshipers at my mosque that we all ought to go down to the Ministry of Religious Affairs and demand the minister to demand all Muslims stop violence? No. Not because I am the type of person who promotes violence, but I don't want to stick up my head and have to explain my actions to the Ministry of Interior security apparatus.
2. I'm average Joe Moroccan and there's a bomb or hostage-taking incident in Chechnya. Well, what do you expect? These folks are being wiped out by the Russians, so they are only reacting as one would normally react. The Muslims in Chechnya who support union with Russia are for the most part collaborators. If Russia granted independence, and real Chechens were given legit power, the problem would go away. Demand violence be stopped in this context? No. Prefer? Yes, but only if I know Russia will make major concessions to separatists.
3) Joe Moroccan reacting to bombings of planes involving non-Muslims, eg in Russia last week? Well, what do you expect? It's bad, yes, innocents died, but nothing will be solved unless Chechnya is granted independence. Demand an end to this violence? No. Prefer? Yes. Being blown away in the sky is so bad PR. Couldn't a more discreet way be found?
4) Joe Moroccan reacting to any violence involving Israel, US, or their lackeys? Demand an end to this violence? Never. Prefer? No. Nothing personal against Americans, but since its govt. put these folks in harm's way, there are no innocents for those sucking on Uncle Sam's nipple.
I choose Morocco since I know the place and people best, but pretty much you can stick in any Arab/ME/Asian Muslim-majority country.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
09/01/2004 16:41 Comments ||
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#31
Straight question-are the people you list fighting against radical Islam or simply against aggression
academic at this point - was the Yugoslav resistance fighting fascism or fighting aggression? Was Solidarnosk fighting Communism, or fighting for the rights of Polish workers? In either case its silly to go up to Yugoslavs partizans, and ask them to denounce fascism, or to discourse on antisemitism in their national literature, when theyre busy fighting Germans.
Musharaf and the secular/moderate elite in Pakistan (for example) are fighting for their survival - I dont care whether this is motivated by an innner struggle about the nature of Islam, or just a desire not to be pushed around by a Saudi weirdo and an Egyptian doctor and not to have the country ruled by illiterates from the mountains.
Civil wars arent that neat.
We fought the American Civil War to end slavery/and/or restore the union. A buncha guys in West Virginia fought just cause they didnt like being told what to do by the legislature in Richmond - they didnt give a damn about slavery and probably coulda supported disunion if theyd gotten a better deal in Virginia. You take allies where you find them, and you DONT hold them to litmus tests.
#32
You said-you use the verb "demand they stop using violence to promote itself".
I said what...is the proportion of Muslims worldwide...who demand their religion stop using violence to promote itself?
Re parsing, singular versus plural, and clarity-What I was trying to communicate was that the religion is promoting itself through violent actions of believers. I could have been clearer. Sorry.
#33
Lh - About 18-20 months ago I recall I posted that we should envision for Iraq nothing less than what we enjoyed in the US. Why is less acceptable? Why waste one American life for less? Blah, blah, blah. It's clear now, in hindsight, I was off the deep end. Wotta maroon.
Obviously, the sights have been lowered considerably with comments such as what Sistani "would allow..." - that brings on arrythmia for me.
Go for it. Take what you can get. I have given up wishing for anything in particular, with one exception. Every time we fuck up, and I believe there have been 3 major fuckups thus far (will list below), I lose more interest in Iraq's future and see it merely for a killing ground vis a vis the flypaper zone. Goals have been watered down to something just this side of half-assed religious state. So be it. I have, as I said, mostly given up and now nominally accept that Arabs are unworthy of a bona-fide representative Republic. They seem unable to grasp even the simplest aspect for they are incapable of risking the bird in hand. Lousy gamblers and lousier as allies.
FuckUps, according to me:
1) Sunni Triangle not pacified with overwhelming force in War. I won't go into the Turkey debacle again, no doubt you recall my thoughts on that, just that we did not even make a halfway attempt to pacify it. It has served in every capacity since as a source of death and unrest throughout the country. From this nest has sprung a full 90% of the grief that Iraq has repaid us with.
2. Fallujah / Ramadi et al - Allowed idiotic political rescue of a major subset of the Sunni Triangle asshats to recover, recoup, and resume activities in #1.
3. Najaf. Talked to death. I believe we blinked.
I'll close with my one single miserly remaining hope: The Kurds are not shackled to the Arabs. Partition them off NOW.
I don't really care anymore, as I said above, what shape or flavor or spin is finally applied and what percent of pregnant Iraq turs out to be. You guys can turn lemons into lemonade - a skill I don't possess - so more power to you. Best of luck to you and our military. Plz don't bother getting worked up and post a bunch for me to respond to - I'm in and out all day.
#34
#5Muslims who donât speak out against terrorists are somewhat to blame for the poor global reputation of Islam just as those on Rantburg who fail to condemn extreme statements such as those by Plainslow are responsible for pushing moderate Muslims toward radicals.
A5032, I'm obliged to take issue with this analysis. If attempts to defeat Islamist terrorism "are responsible for pushing moderate Muslims toward radicals" then they are nothing but undeclared radicals posing as moderates.
The blatant evil that radical Islam and terrorism in general represent cannot be countenanced. Just as all that is necessary for evil to succeed, is for good people to do nothing, so is silence consent. The thundering silence of Islam on the issue of terrorism is and should deservingly be its downfall.
At this point I've got to call a spade a spade. A majority of terrorism comes from either totalitarian or theocratic states, or both, as the case may be. Viz Iraq, allowing Sistani to promote what's essentially yet another theocracy is more than unacceptable, it's plainly stupid. They will breed up more terrorists who will go on to kill more Americans. The sooner that Islamism is recognized as, and openly declared to be a political agenda and not a religion, the better off all of us are going to be. It must be regarded as an enemy of world peace and nothing less. Those who cannot bring themselves to denounce it should rightfully be lumped in with those who support it.
I'm not going to try and rehash what jules has been saying so well. While there is a difference between murder and the abetting of it, both remain punishable offenses and require vigorous intervention or deterrance. The longer Islam remains mute in regards to terrorism, the more its continued existence is called into question. Again, silence is consent.
#35
LH & CM-Well, we disagree. I have a different view of what constitutes a moderate 21st century religion. Perhaps nothing in the versions of Islam you could support aversely affects you personally. That can be persuasive.
LH-Hopefully Israel will stronger, safer, and more secure in our lives and will be accepted by the entire Muslim world as worthy of existence on this planet.
#36
Jules: âthis sounds like the approach we have been usingâ
(Many comments since my last visit. I agree with LiberalHawkâs responses.)
Yes, use US military, economic, and political force to crack open closed societies. Let Western capitalism and culture modernize the societies from within. The strategy has the added advantage of knocking out tyrants such as Saddam and forcing countries such as Saudi Arabia to curtail funding for terrorism.
If the US is successful in establishing a prosperous democracy in Iraq, then great. If not, we tried and Saddam is still gone and ME governments know the US means business and US troops are positioned to influence events in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria.
I donât like seeing US blood and treasure spent in the ME. However, I believe US soldiers in Iraq are saving US lives at home with their sacrifices.
We are at war and there is no guarantee the US will be successful.
Jules: âwho defines radical Islam-the West or Islam, and how will you ever get Muslims to agree to the eradication of radical Islam-what is the actual plan of action?â
The US government defines terrorist groups and the people who fund them. The US uses its military, economic, and political power to eradicate those groups. In Pakistan it seems like a game of whack-a-mole but slowly progress is being made.
Jules: âlike in France and the Netherlands, both of which have had mighty integration efforts and access to information and yet have hordes of Angry Muslim men raping teenage girls for skirts too short or "dishonorable dating". The Muslims there do NOT WANT to integrateâ
Each nation has complex social dynamics. The Islamic religious war will play out differently in each country. France has also been playing its own power games in the ME.
I donât pretend to know how this will all come out. I believe the world is undergoing a massive economic and cultural globalization that will take decades to sort out. The process is painful and disruptive. Most of the world sees this globalization as US imperialism. In the US we experience globalization as massive immigration, cheap Chinese products, outsourcing of jobs to India, Japanese anime, and Islamic terrorists.
Jules: âI don't intend to be flippant, Anon5032, but we are past this approach now. I am not interested in understanding Muslims' plight because they distract us with it while they murder non-Muslims and Muslims alike; I am not interested in pleading with them for why I am justified to live on this earth alongside them-I need no religion's permission.â
Iâm not advocating a soft approach. Iâm suggesting using all methods short of total war to change Islam. As a strategy I advocate divide and conquer, try to separate the moderates who may become friends from the radicals who will always be enemies.
Jules: âB's comment #9 is about where I stand on Islam.â
I also support Bâs comment. My paragraph on total war is a warning to any moderate Muslim who reads this thread. The US will not lose this war. The question is how many Muslims end up dying. The more the US is attacked, the more the war escalates, and the more Muslims die.
#38
"...was the Yugoslav resistance fighting fascism or fighting aggression? Was Solidarnosk fighting Communism, or fighting for the rights of Polish workers? "
Which ones are the coalition-
the fascists/communists
or
a resistance/labor rights fighting force?
"I dont care whether this is motivated by an innner struggle about the nature of Islam, or just a desire not to be pushed around by a Saudi weirdo and an Egyptian doctor and not to have the country ruled by illiterates from the mountains. "
I pretty much agree with .com... but first what was one of the big failures in the Vietnam war?
I say it was screwing around making lemonade. Making lemonade cost the economy too damn much in balnance of payments, outflow of capital, everything. Remember Time is Money and we are all victims of time. The longer it takes the more a rich country becomes poor. When we entered Vietnam were were very very rich. When we exited we soon had Carters disasterous %27 interest rates and a recession that eroded the country's totally dominate world economic position. We can't afford to pussyfoot about playing with snakes and scorpions.
So in that viewpoint you have these options:
1) surrender to the Dhimmitude
2) win a lengthly limited war but end up so eroded in captital and debt that someday you surrender to somebody.... Vietnam showed us how that works.
3) remove the problem like Alexander the Great by cutting the Gordian Knot with a sharp sword. It could be Total War it could be something else but it needs to cut the knot.
So, Anonymous5032 & LH did I miss an option that you see and I don't? If not, which option do you think we should select and why?
#40
Zenester: âIf attempts to defeat Islamist terrorism "are responsible for pushing moderate Muslims toward radicals" then they are nothing but undeclared radicals posing as moderates. â
Iâm all in favor of actions to defeat Islamic terrorism. I favored action in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Muslims will always get riled up when non-Muslims attack Muslims. Deposing the Taliban and Saddam were worth it. I hope moderate Muslims will eventually support those actions. (Some already do.)
Iâm not in favor of burning down a Nepalese mosque because of actions taken by Islamic terrorists. I believe a moderate Muslim would reasonably conclude from that action that all Islam is under attack.
Iâm also in favor of some tit-for-tat. If radical Muslims target Americans, then find something they care about and target it. (For example, Israel knocking down the family house of terrorists.) But the punishment should be directed only at those supporting terrorists. Were mullahs at the Nepalese mosque preaching hatred, recruiting fighters, or gathering funds to support terrorists? If they were then make those facts public and burn the place down.
Zenester: âThe sooner that Islamism is recognized as, and openly declared to be a political agenda and not a religion, the better off all of us are going to be.â
I agree. But at this stage I donât believe Islamism is all of Islam. I still have hopes that the radical Muslims can be separated and eradicated. If they canât then the conflict will escalate into total war.
Jules: âSo, Anonymous5032 & LH did I miss an option that you see and I don't? If not, which option do you think we should select and why?â
If by option 3, you mean an immediate escalation to total war in which the US nukes all the main Islamic population centers (Might as well nuke North Korea while were at it.) then I believe such an action would destroy the US as a nation.
If by option 3, you donât mean total war but mean instead other aggressive actions I might support you depending on the suggestion. (Given that terrorism seems to run in certain families, I might support a mafia-like approach of targeting the families of terrorists.)
My choice is to continue with the Iraq strategy. Spend hundreds or thousands of US lives and hundreds of billions to remake the ME. Be willing and prepared to attack Iran and Syria. Force Islamic society to change. (I disagree with your analogy to Vietnam. Nor do I believe the Iraq effort will bankrupt the US or weaken our forces.)
#41
Question: Why DON'T "moderate" muslims redeem their religion and moral stance by condemning, preventing, or working to undermine, the works of their murderous brethen?
Hypothesis: Islam, by definition of retribution, allows any variety of atrocity against nonbelievers attacking Islam. "Moderate" muslims aren't any more, or less, "Islamic" than their murderous counterpart Islamists. Moderates might not agree with religious extremists, but they're still muslims. There is a definite tribal ethos to Islam--all for one, and one for all. Moderates might not care for the methods of the extremists, but can see that the atrocities are committed in the defense of "Islam."
Setting up a secular state in Iraq, among Arabs, is a violation of Islam in the eyes of many muslims.
I believe Islam is the enemy. I do hope for the advent of a secular, moderate, Islam, but until then, Islam is still the enemy.
I think Plainslow's original statement left much to question, but here's the science:
http://www.nepalnews.com.np/contents/englishweekly/telegraph/2003/feb/feb05/national.htm
Specifically: "The Hindu-Muslim clash in Nepalganj in 1997 is an example â a mishandling of a Muslim by a Hindu was interpreted as an attack against group identity. Backed up by the Muslims across the border with India, the Nepali Musalmans attacked Hindu homes and businesses, while the Shiva Sena promptly acted and attacked their "opponents" in order to protect their own Hindu identity."
This would be Basayev's MO, looks like he's building up to a big and bloody finale ... Armed attackers on Wednesday took at least 200 schoolchildren hostage in the southern Russian province of North Ossetia, Itar-Tass news agency quoted local officials as saying. Interfax news agency quoted local police as saying women and men wearing belts of explosives were among the attackers in the Ossetian town of Bislan, not far from the rebel province of Chechnya. A gunbattle broke out with police near the building after the assault on the school. It said at least one man had been killed in the shootout. The agency said the gunmen may also have attacked a second school, but other agencies did not confirm this. The gunmen staged their attack on the first day of the new school year. Russian President Vladimir Putin's envoy in the region said: "At the moment police are being called to the scene. It is not immediately clear how many schoolchildren and parents have been taken. "There is a shootout in the area," the envoy, Vladimir Yakovlev said.
Hostages for hostages, reprisals for atrocities: Inform the Islamic Heroes that for every hostage killed, two members of their immediate families will be killed.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 3:11:58 AM ||
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Link ||
[5 views]
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#1
Ah brave terrorists..going after children I see. The bastards.
"If you are prepared to become a radical Muslim and undergo circumcision, I invite you to Moscow."
"Our nation is multi-confessional, we have specialists in this field who can deal with this. I suggest you have an operation so that nothing grows out of you again," the Russian leader said.
Mr. Putin, don't wait for them to come to Moscow, it's time you to send your specialists to chechnya, doctors-without-borders-style, yeah?
#3
Encyclopedic Dan Darling, or other reader: There was a discussion, I think in LGF, about 1-2 weeks ago, where someone mentioned a friend who encountered ominous warnings in a Jihadi bulletin board. The discussion contained links, etc. The preductions in this case seem to have played out with some fidelity. Do you or anyone else here recall that discussion, and can you get me a link to it? Thanks.
#4
Right now it looks like Basayev's launched a series of major attacks in and outside of Chechnya. Whether this is something he came up with on his own (and he's certainly a bloodthirsty enough bastard) or whether this is being internationally coordinated with the rest of al-Qaeda remains to be seen. If it's the latter, then we should know soon enough.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 9:26 Comments ||
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#5
You can only wonder what they hope to accomplish by this â other than feed their thirst for blood and headlines. Now that blowing up busses and planes full of people only rates a one day news cycle, â they have moved to killing children in the hopes of extending their glory to 24/7. What happens when even that becomes status quo? Anyone who thinks these wannaâbes wouldnât love to access a nuke- is in serious denial.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 10:05 Comments ||
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#6
You can only wonder what they hope to accomplish by this â other than feed their thirst for blood and headlines.
They think it will put them in paradise.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 10:14 Comments ||
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#7
I'm guessing logic and strategy is not a strong point of the jihadi's.
#9
Fred's comment in the article body has it right. The only way to stop a psychopath is to show him the consequences of his action will be that he will be hurt in some way. Worked pretty well for a while with G'daffy after the F-111 bomb run. Actions will have to be systematic and ruthless. It is us or them. I will pick No. 2 for the survival of the nation, Alex.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/01/2004 11:27 Comments ||
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#10
I posted this thought on another thread, but I see the discussion is here.
These terrorists don't really have a particular goal in mind other than to express their rage.
Oh, sure, they say it's for Jihad...but these AQ jihadi's are really just glorified serial killers; they are more interested in the headlines and the fact that they can make the greatest powers in the world feel helpless next to their actions.
Just like serial killers, they will just keep ratcheting up the horror level until they are stopped. There are no demands that can be met that would ever stop their quest for blood.
I don't have any answers and I don't disagree that perhaps, (as in Jenin), hitting them where it hurts, might have an impact... but where will that "cycle of violence(TM) end? Ah don't jump down my throat, it's a valid question, even if the cliche has been so over-used as to make it meaningless.
I'm not trying to understand the terrorists, and I realize that we are going to have to become more ruthless if we want to survive. I'm just saying that if we have to start killing people, not directly involved with the acts of violence, its sad.
There is no real end in sight. Sigh.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 11:58 Comments ||
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#11
the picture of that little girl just rips at my heart. What is wrong with these people? What is wrong with the Muslim people that allows them to sit quietly and only ask that the babies be removed?
I just fear for the response that we will become capable of, if these barbaric actions continue.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 12:07 Comments ||
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#12
#2 - Send them to Chechnya, let a few scalpels slip, population growth of Muslims slows dramatically!
#14
You can only wonder what they hope to accomplish by this â other than feed their thirst for blood and headlines.
I thought the same thing about the protesters at the Republican convention. What's your point ? Oh, there are protesters, let's change our platform, nominate Hillary and pull out of Iraq.
#15
B: We're not talkin' about people here. They're animals lacking all humanity.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
09/01/2004 13:06 Comments ||
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#16
looking at that picture...something good died in me today.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 13:16 Comments ||
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#17
As Wretchard wrote so eloquently in April or May, events like this in war will harden us all. The level of the acceptable will rise and the only way to stop the cycle is to win the war. We as a people will accept a completely differnt set of collateral damage inflicted on our enemies as time goes by. We are in a war, and it is not just about Iraq, it is about our survival. We must win.
Posted by: remote man ||
09/01/2004 13:29 Comments ||
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#18
exactly right, remote man, but Russia's military is too incompetent, demoralized and corrupt to win. Time for us to let NATO die a quiet death and start stepping up cooperation with Putin. And with India, Israel and Turkey. A new Entente awaits.
#20
looking at that picture...something good died in me today.
Are you sure? Was it something good dying, or was it something good waking up and refusing to accept what's going on?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 13:48 Comments ||
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#21
wrong century, boris badanov. We need Russia to be on our side now, not cozy up to Iran. Whatever it takes-- $$$ for their nuclear industry, help in reogranizing their incompetent military.
#22
#16 looking at that picture...something good died in me today.
Take heart. Remember for each of those muslim terrorist scum in there, there are a dozen or more soldiers (like the one in the picture) willing to die to save those children. Take heart in that.
#25
"Hostages for hostages, reprisals for atrocities: Inform the Islamic Heroes⢠that for every hostage killed, two members of their immediate families will be killed. "
They can start with those already convicted and in prison. Then use common DNA to track down any survivors in the "wild." Sure it's expensive, but this is ~200 kids we're talking about
Negotiations with the bandits have begun who took over the school in Beslane.
At long last contact has been established contact
with the terrorists who took school in the North Osetian city Beslane.
And now a special group has begun telephone negotiation process.
North-Caucasian NTV bureau chief Ruslan Gusarov, several minutes ago reported that the chief for administration FSB of Russia for North Osetia Valerie Andreev said that the negotiations go with difficulty. However, still more difficult it was to attain their beginning, because any approach to the school caused gunfire from the terrorists who were down there.
#27
looking at that picture...something good died in me today.
I know the feeling. But for me it was the sight of the WTC collapsing. But what died that day was my illusions.
But I'm glad that I know what I know now. We have a chance to minimize the bloodshed that was begun between us and them on that day. But if we let them win the horror will never end for anyone not ever.
May God be with those whose job it is to protect and save.
#28
Putin's gonna take a PR hit on this one.
Hundreds of schoolchildren seized, and he hasn't even been seen by the public. Where is he? Vacationing in Sochi.
Terrorist blows up in Moscow? Where is he? Vacationing in Sochi.
Planes drop from the sky? Where is he? Vacationing in Sochi.
Posted by: Baltic Blog ||
09/01/2004 16:05 Comments ||
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#29
I have some faith in Putin. He is not going to negotiate here anymore than he did in that theater a while back.
This guy is a hard ass and former KGB to boot. I'm sure he is working on a plan to trick the terrorists as we speak.
I just pray for the childrens sake that they've perfected that gas thing by now. Or maybe they have something even better.
All I know is that Putin doesn't play with these people. You would think they would realize that by now.
The first step in winning any struggle is to know your enemy, dumb-asses!
#30
Remoteman (#17) has it right. Events like this really are hardening us all. The parallels with the second world war are obvious, early on the RAF tried hard not to bomb civilian areas, but by July '43 we had firebombed Hamburg and in Feb '45 it was Dresden.
There will come a stage when we will 'write off' people (yes, even kids) who are captured by terrorists. The terrorists may be given one chance to let them all go, and serve life terms, or Armageddon will be unleashed. We will be looking at Carthaginian proportions of revenge. One victim is killed, 100, 1000 die in retribution. Please, no 'cycle of violence' arguments - that only has relevance with similarly matched adversaries.
The Russians sent a few heads back in a bucket in Beirut when one of their own was kidnapped. He was released. Our lot didn't do that - cue Terry Waite and John McCarthy...
This is what is necessary to win this war. We in the West are not prepared to do that - yet.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/01/2004 16:14 Comments ||
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#31
i think the russians should take out thier anger on the Arab countrys that fund this shit, 'cluster nuke' them, cut off the food at least to these middle eastern shit holes that support this sick shit. Hope this wakes the Bear up, and i think it just might, if anyones got the guts to crush the eneamy no holds barred with none of this treason like left wing anti war bullshit from its own people there, the russkies have the will the means and the dont give a fuck attitude to squash these jihadi scum!
Posted by: Shep UK ||
09/01/2004 16:21 Comments ||
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#32
'cluster nuke'!! - amazing imagery coming through from that...
I've just read the larger thread on this, and clicked through to the Russian speaking blogger who is translating. It's heart-breaking stuff.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/01/2004 16:57 Comments ||
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#33
#31 "Hope this wakes the Bear up, and i think it just might.." It took a few weeks before we "woke up" after 9/11, so I guess time will tell on that one. My question is, is the Russian nuke arsenal still viable to do the job? Would hate to see them drop a few duds over Teheran, unless it was the carcasses of these terrorist scum...
#34
Maybe they could ask the Israelis for help in rescue/execution? I suppose Spetnaz has gone the way of the rest of the army?
[sigh] I'm beginning to think Ferdinand & Isabela had it right. Forcibly convert them to Christianity, turn the mosques into churches, exile or kill the religious leaders. Prohibit moslems from entering the country for any reason.
I honestly have to wonder about someone with so little faith in our arms and in the creativity and merit of those who protect us that they believe that it will have to come to that.
Maybe someday it might, but to talk as if that day were somehow inevitable loses us moral ground over these abominable monsters. We must focus on winning well as if that were our only option if we want to hope to claim the moral high ground in this awful mess. We should not even be wasting our time and our brain power with talk like that.
The other thing about it is, the more we throw around talk about nuking people, the greater our chances of being nuked first by some weaker nation. If I was a weak guy, I would try a decapitation strike if the big guy was talking about wiping me off the map.
I want to win this and still be proud that we are not like them. That means searching for the kind of inspired solutions that American are famous for before we decide to enter the filthy gutter that these people crawl around in.
We should fight tooth and nail against any hardening just on principle. We are a decent if imperfect people and we should not be so quick to anticipate the day when we have to set decency aside and bomb indiscriminately
#36
Putin was ticked off quite a bit with the theater, given this, he might start channeling Stalin on how to deal with these people.
Honestly, I think if just one country on this planet facing a crisis like this WOULD burn their enemies nation down to the bedrock, it might stop alot of killing. If they see that yes, taking kids hostage gets your nation incinerated from the face of the earth, they might actually decide it's not worth it. I think until somebody gets fried, we're simply going to continue to see this sort thing happen. Doing this doesn't necessarily require nukes, it could be done through conventional means, it's simply more cost effective to use nukes.
#37
I want to win this and still be proud that we are not like them. That means searching for the kind of inspired solutions that American are famous for before we decide to enter the filthy gutter that these people crawl around in.
We should fight tooth and nail against any hardening just on principle. We are a decent if imperfect people and we should not be so quick to anticipate the day when we have to set decency aside and bomb indiscriminately
Eloquently put, peggy. This is why I advocate holding Medina and Mecca hostage. Sadly, in terms of what the Arab street will understand and respect, I fear SilentBrick is probably much closer to the truth. At some point, erasing an entire nation from the face of this earth may well prove the only way to convey the seriousness of our intent to eradicate terrorism for once and all. Even now, it is an "us or them" situation, just not quite so desperate to the point of anihilating an entire nation. Should Iran begin handing out atom bombs like party favors, all of that might quickly change.
#38
I honestly have to wonder about someone with so little faith in our arms and in the creativity and merit of those who protect us that they believe that it will have to come to that.
Because it could come to that. It's called the worst possible scenario, something a competent planner will never avoid addressing.
Claiming the high moral ground might feel really good, but proving our moral superiority to barbarians or anyone else isn't going to cause the barbarians to stop trying to kill as many us as they can, and trading the lives of our countrymen in pursuit of it is a fool's errand.
Gunmen opened fire Wednesday on a convoy carrying former Iraqi Governing Council member Ahmad Chalabi in an apparent assassination attempt that wounded two of his bodyguards, Chalabi's spokesman said. Chalabi's convoy was attacked in southern Baghdad at about 7:30 a.m. as he returned from the holy city of Najaf, said spokesman Mithal al-Alusi. "The doctor (Chalabi) is in good health. He is safe but two of his bodyguards were injured, " al-Alusi said.
A warrant issued by an Iraqi court accused him of counterfeiting old Iraqi dinars, which were removed from circulation after the ouster of Saddam Hussein last year. Chalabi denies the allegations, saying he collected the fake currency in his role as chairman of the Governing Council's finance committee. Despite the warrant, the Iraqi Interior Ministry has said it won't arrest Chalabi until unspecified legal issues are cleared up, leaving him free to move around the country. Chalabi's nephew, Salem Chalabi - who heads the special tribunal in charge of trying ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein - faces separate murder charges.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 2:32:53 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
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#6
Brave Jihadis. What kind of virgins do you get for killing school children?
School children.
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/01/2004 3:25 Comments ||
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#7
This is right out of the Basayev playbook. The plane booms and attacks inside Moscow, the raid into Ingushetia, ect, he's been building up for another grand finale a la the Moscow theater seige.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 3:27 Comments ||
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#8
time for Putin to take out a Saudi school to show he knows who the hell is paying for this crap.
#10
Sorry, TGA. I just had a spirited "jihad" discussion with my sister and need to work on the ol' blood pressure. That, plus my spontaneous disgust over this news item may have unintentionally come across as sarcasm. If I've never said it before, thank you for your posts and comments. You're truly one of the main reasons that I keep lurking around here.
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/01/2004 3:29 Comments ||
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#12
I wonder if the school is in an ethnic Russian neighborhood? I thought most Ossetians were Muslim. If the hostages are mostly Muslim children, I don't see how this could play well in the wider Islamic audience.
Posted by: ed ||
09/01/2004 3:34 Comments ||
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#13
I think the Roman method with some modification could be applied. The condemmed was sewn into a bag with a dog, ape and some other animal. The bag was then tossed into a river. This could be modified with a pig, and a dog. Sew whats left into a pig, head poinitng away from Mecca (after removing the nether regions.) I imagine you would soon find few who would volunteer for "jihad".
#15
Actually, a minority of Ossettes are Muslims, but most are (or were, pre-USSR) Orthodox Christians. Also, by ethnicity and language, they're Iranian/Persian and not too closely related to anyone else in the immediate neighborhood. Consequently, they're traditionally one of the more Russophile tribes in the Caucasus and don't get along too well with their neighbors, especially the Ingush (kissing cousins to the Chechens). For the handful of you who don't know about South Ossetia (it's been in the news lots lately too), it's part of Georgia and by its own admission wants to return to Moscow's control.
(Sorry. I'm a Caucasus geek.)
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/01/2004 3:48 Comments ||
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#16
CNN has a grainy picture now of a little kid, maybe mid- or -late elementary. How courageous. Also, this town is right inside the border from Ingushetia (close to Chechnya too).
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/01/2004 3:52 Comments ||
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#17
They started school today and parents accompany their kids on their first day at school. Expect a good number of 6 and 7 year olds.
I can't think of anything more despicable and vile (except the apologists spinning the action).
#19
Are these pro-Georgians that want our help holding off the bear? Does the group who is doing this understand that hurting children is most likely to intimidate no one, to convince no one and to win-over no one (except the Palestinians?)
I don't know which side is right in this conflict, but why don't we all support killing these perpetrators and all their associates then we can get back to the argument after we have buried these creeps in a septic tank.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/01/2004 4:21 Comments ||
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#20
SH, the previous Georgian administrations (especially Gamsakhurdia but, to a lesser extent, Shevardnadze too) tended to buddy-up with the Chechens. And yes, Georgia is now our buddy. So the friend of our friend is our enemy, in this case.
My dream scenario would be for Saakashvili and Putin to reach a behind-closed-doors deal, with Georgia cutting the Chechens loose in exchange for Putin dropping the S. Ossetian and Abkhazian mafia states. Then the alignments would all make sense.
I can dream, can't I?
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/01/2004 4:35 Comments ||
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#21
Dan, I am up for any deal that brings peace as long as these child molesters are stacked like cord-wood prior to negotiations.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/01/2004 4:37 Comments ||
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#22
(raises a cup to Super Hose's sentiments)
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/01/2004 4:45 Comments ||
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#23
Before I shuffle along to bed, here's a recent article with some background on the Ossetians (heavier on the south than the north). Be warned: Gary Brecher's amoral nihilism is pretty non-Rantburgish (his Moore-esque appearance doesn't help), but he still knows the area.
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/01/2004 4:57 Comments ||
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#24
I'll be very surprised if this turns out to be anyone other than Chechens. Some/all of the attackers are wearning bomb belts, both sexes, sounds like a re-run of the Moscow theatre siege.
Difficult to imageine getting lower than this (but I'm sure they'll try...)
#28
Not a lot - should imagine shit-fer-brains Murat and Gentle are whipping themselves into a frenzy of ululation over the latest atrocity committed by their ilk.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/01/2004 6:04 Comments ||
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#29
I think the Roman method with some modification could be applied.
I think the method the Romans applied to the Spartacists should be applied. From Grozny to Petropavlosk.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 6:59 Comments ||
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#30
Don't be hasty brainless dUcK, nobody can be happy about child murderers (Bush included), they are worse than terrorists
Posted by: Murat ||
09/01/2004 7:37 Comments ||
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#31
How many of those dead Armenian kids did your grandad murder eh, Murat?
#32
None, the "Armenian genocide" is nothing more than a fairytale with lots of fabrications
Posted by: Murat ||
09/01/2004 7:55 Comments ||
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#33
Murat, you just keep getting more and more and more disgusting.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 7:57 Comments ||
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#34
Naturally the demons in the school are demanding the release of prisoners, the most common of Mohammedan terrorist demands, and the most frequently appeased.
If any harm comes to those children, if some are rescued but others are not, then every prisoner whose release was demanded should be shot or hanged at once and the video broadcast all over the Muslim world.
Bush and Sharon can't do this kind of medieval stuff, Putin can and the Russian street would cheer him for it.
#36
Coming to a theater of war near you: Vlad the Impaler
Yep I admit, that one is killed by my grandpa.
Posted by: Murat ||
09/01/2004 8:33 Comments ||
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#37
Bush and Sharon can't do this kind of medieval stuff, Putin can and the Russian street would cheer him for it.
But can the CIA, I mean supporting Chechen rebels against Russians, worked in Afghanistan.
Posted by: Murat ||
09/01/2004 8:35 Comments ||
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#38
Take your drooling dope fantasy conspiracy fantasies to someone who will buy them, Murat. I suggest the Euro media you sold your soul to. Maybe you can buy it back and sell it to the Iranians for TWO of their many-times-recycled 60s dope-fantasies.
You backward-ass baboons amaze me. You are literally stuck in the 1960s, enslaved by every word some asshat on tv tells you, and not realizing that this is an obsolete American method, even as you make your make your pathetic pig-squeals attempting to demonize us with it.
Your grandpa never killed anything but the dogs they cooked for dinner.
#39
If they want prisoners released, I say put them in a truck and send them to grozny. Then, if the children are released or not, make the rubble bounce in grozny. Fuck these animals. Where's our islamo-whore gentle at to defend these scum? Huh? Where are you whore? These are YOUR people. Fine, upstanding muslim scum. Islam has truly become a pestilence upon our world. And if you people don't clean up your act and join the civilized world, well, we'll end you. We'll have no choice.
#43
Take each terrorist in jail whose release they are demanding, and suspend them head down in a black cauldron of bubbling pig's blood, once every 10 minutes, until the children are released.
#47
8 people killed so far...no word on if any of them are children.
Of course if it's 8 adults, then the children just watched their parents be slaughtered.
#48
Bush and Sharon can't do this kind of medieval stuff, Putin can and the Russian street would cheer him for it.
Correction: Bush (Blair) and Sharon can't do this -- yet. Give a few more attacks by these 'big brave muslims warriors for Islam' and they would be cheered on as well.
BTW: Where are the mythical moderate muslims? 'Religion of Peace' my ass.
TS (vice girl) having children watch their parents get slaughtered is the muslim way.
#49
TS, where are you getting your info? Much as I would like to today, I can't stay at the computer all day. Thanks, and thanks for all your posts -- you do good (yes, yes to all you other grammer-philes, I do know it should be 'well'. But I was going for rhetorical emphasis!)
#50
Try 1.5 million (range 1-2 million) killed between 1915-1918 by Turks, Kurds, and Arabs. But many massacres occured in the years preceeding it. For example, in 1895, 100,000-300,000 were massacred by the Turks. Your usual Muslim genocide tactics. Kill men, old folks, children. Rape and kill or slave marriage for the younger women and girls. Confiscation of all goods and property and deny, deny, deny.
A synopsis: http://www.armenian-genocide.org/Education.56/current_category.117/resourceguide_detail.html
Posted by: ed ||
09/01/2004 10:10 Comments ||
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#51
MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Seven people were killed as armed attackers stormed a school in southern Russia and took at least 100 people hostage, Russian media said.
...
Interfax reported at least 100 people inside the school with the hostage-takers; Russian state television, however, said the number was as high as 300.
Interfax said the hostage-takers had threatened to kill 50 children for each of their number killed by Russian forces and 20 for each wounded. ...
Posted by: ed ||
09/01/2004 10:23 Comments ||
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#52
Time to call John McClain.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/01/2004 10:39 Comments ||
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#53
#15 (Sorry. I'm a Caucasus geek.) Nada. Thanks for your contribution. I hang around Rantburg to drink from the various deep wells of knowledge. That,and to watch while a few unsuspecting trolls get the shit kicked out of them.
#55
Watching the video clip of the little girl and the babushka being hustled to safety, I'm not struck with the impression those troops are very well trained. Half of them are not wearing helmets, and one guy crossing the street sideways with his AK pointed from the hip seems to have watched too many war movies. Does Russia still use conscription?
Posted by: Dar ||
09/01/2004 11:01 Comments ||
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#56
Does Russia still use conscription?
Does a bear shit in the woods?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 11:03 Comments ||
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#57
Radio reports they have kids in front of windows as human shields.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/01/2004 11:03 Comments ||
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#58
'Logic and Sanity', blogger speaks Russian, is updating every 5-15 mins. Link
#59
RC--Just asking. Thought things might have changed since the USSR fell apart, but apparently they haven't.
TS--Thanks for the L and S link--very interesting stuff. The Egyptian flight with the two Chechen women is quite intriguing.
Posted by: Dar ||
09/01/2004 11:59 Comments ||
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#60
Thanks ed (#50). Murat is not an educated man. I don't even know why people talk to him--but when he's spouting nonsense, I suppose a response is necessary.
from the posts: "if it's 8 adults, then the children just watched their parents be slaughtered"
#61
Unfort'y Russia's got a bigger problem: the incompetence, corruption and demoralization afflicting the Russian Army. No way they can crush the rebellion until they fix their crumbling military house.
#62
Time for the US to get serious about close cooperation with Russia. Pay the Russian nuclear engineering companies whatever they need to stop supplying Iran. Step up intel and military cooperation. Let NATO die a quiet death and replace it with a new Entente comprising US, Russia, India, Israel and Turkey.
#64
lex: Drop Turkey....they pretty much stabbed us in the back by not letting the 4th ID come down through Kurdistan. Can't count on em.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
09/01/2004 12:48 Comments ||
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#65
I agree with Lex 100%. Russia should dump concription in favor of a profesional volunteer army. They should work with the US to see how we fight with so few casualties, and they should rethink their entire war on Chechnya.
They should evacuate the Russian population from Chechnya. In the process of evacuation they should have a scorched earth policy. Take out power lines, power plants, and sewage facilities. All of the infrastructure the Russians built up should be taken out (nice place to test an EMP). Kill Chechnyan terrorists currently held prisoner and dump the bodies into Chechnya. Then arm the Chechnyan border and declare the conflict over. If Chechnyans want the land let them have it, but not on their terms. In the future the entire area can become a free-fire zone if the Chechyans misbehave and a very strong message is sent to those that might get similar ideas.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/01/2004 12:52 Comments ||
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#67
Yeah, fuck off, get out of Incirlik airbase.
Posted by: Murat ||
09/01/2004 12:53 Comments ||
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#68
Hey Murat - I don't usually address trolls...but you must be very proud today. Go look at the picture of that little girl under rantburg's headline. And those people uulating over the bombing of Israelis. Planes blown up by bombs. Body parts everywhere. It's a good day for you, isn't it. You must feel big.
Today is a day that may or may not make the history books - but it should. Today is a day when the rose-colored goggles were stripped from the eyes of the civilized world. Nothing will be the same, from this point forward. Some will say it was 9-11 that opened our eyes - but even then, we were still naive. Today we finally understand what we are facing.
It should scare you Murat. Did you see the story about the mob attacking the mosque?
You've been able to mask your evil nature behind platitudes and slogans...thanks to our goodness. Not anymore.
The picture of the little girl just killed something good in me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Fuck you, Murat. You and those like you deserve all that is coming your way.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 13:14 Comments ||
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#69
Murat:
What you don't seem to grasp is that, since Turkey has a SENSE of what it's like to be a progressive, prosperous country, they will ALWAYS side with the West. That means they will quash the 14th century baboons who try to derail progress. And they'll do it in an "unislamic" way (which means they'll do it in an islamic way).
#70
From Logic and Sanity 21 year old Kazik brought his sister to school. He tells the journalist what he witnessed.
Around 9 am, an old truck pulled up and about 20 heavily armed terrorists dressed in black and wear black masks and 4 women with bomb belts came out.
Children started to run. Those who were standing closest to the street were able to make it out. Terorrists starting pushing others, and throwing some children through windows (!!!).
And elderly woman was shot, and a girl who looked like an 11th grader was shot in the back. She died on the spot.
I'm with you B, this totally pisses me off. If the 'moderate muslims' don't denounce this we will surely know they dont exist. Some cancers need to be cut out and some people simply need to be killed dead.
#71
RJ Schwartz : I have expressed the idea of evacuating the ethnic Russians and Torching the rest also. I think about this after hearing about body parts strewn in Moscow in the wake of a bombing by the Chechen homicidal dupe.
These kids being taken hostage is so far beyond the pale, that if the Russians ever get the upper hand on these Islamofacist bozos, and can take them alive, they ought to be executed and the bodies thrown in a pit and covered with pork lard.
It should shown live on all TV channels simultaneously in the Moslem areas of Russia, with the phrase "This is what we do to the butchers of children", along with cut-ins of the video of the standoff so there is no misunderstanding.
The Moslems are not all suicidal, and maybe the ones who see this "show" and desire to live, can turn in the would-be terrorists, who can be chemically induced to give up information (future plans & contacts, etc.). . .
Allright. Now I can calm down. I have a 4-yr old son. I feel for those worried parents.
#72
psst..Murat â your trojan attempt failed. Like everything else in your hateful world.
You canât win. Because even if you were to kill each and everything good in this world â youâd be left in the little hate filled universe you have created for yourself.
Ever see Oklahoma? You are the guy who wastes away in his little sweaty room, missing all of the beauty in world outside.
Youâll never be able to kill the beauty of our ideas and our spirit. Not even death can take it from us. And the more you try, the more you will be surrounded by the evil and darkness that will destroy any chance you have experiencing happiness.
Itâs a hell of your own making. Go ahead and rot in it. Take the mental picture of that little girl with youâ¦apparently it gives you delight. You are sad.
As for me, Iâm going to log off and go take a shower to get the stench of your being out of my system. Iâm going outside to enjoy the sunshine.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 14:06 Comments ||
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#73
Some moderate Muslims will denounce it...because they are worried about the damage it will do to Islam's image.
#74
Truth hurts doesn't it Murat. Turkey had it's chance, and it farted it away. Turkey's military says it guarantees a non islamic state - and that's about as much as we can hope for and even that's a stretch.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
09/01/2004 14:24 Comments ||
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#75
Hell, just have the Russians start rounding up all of the known or former terrorists families up in Chechneya, and televise the executions to the terorists. Let them see their screaming pleading wives, brothers, and children, die as they kill people off.
Murat...Fantasy, huh? ...pathetic, who writes your stuff? Goebbels?
#76
Youâll never be able to kill the beauty of our ideas and our spirit. Not even death can take it from us. And the more you try, the more you will be surrounded by the evil and darkness that will destroy any chance you have experiencing happiness
#77
It must feel just a little odd to live in a state like Turkey where the great liberal force is the army. Poor old Murat. We can't leave Incuntlik it's way too vital to US hegemony. We'd loose Israel, Iraq, Japan and Hawaii without it. Get out the paint and make the bullseye. By the way hows the Turko Navy mindsweeping capability? Zilch you say?
#78
#13The condemmed was sewn into a bag with a dog, ape and some other animal. The bag was then tossed into a river.
SPoD, I've read that it was a dog, cat and rooster, thus encouraging the maximum amount of mayhem from the animals' quarreling prior to drowning. A pig just isn't going to provide the damage quotient desired deserved here. I would have to go with a fully tusked wild boar or warthog for maximum entertainment value.
#32... the "Armenian genocide" is nothing more than a fairytale with lots of fabrications
Murat, I invite you to make up a big sign with your above words and then carry it around downtown Yerevan at noontime. I'd give you about 30 seconds to live. People who deny genocide are among the lowest scum there are. I usually do not resort to insult, but for you, I'll make an exception. Islamists seek global cultural genocide and your denying an obvious example of it puts you squarely in the camp of those who seek it. You are morally void.
#62Pay the Russian nuclear engineering companies whatever they need to stop supplying Iran.
lex, thank you for connecting the dots here about Russia and Iran. The Russians are already being paid for assisting the Iranians, right now. This is exactly what they deserve for helping arm Iran and their terrorist scum. I cannot and do not wish it upon so many innocent children, but no one in their right mind could possibly exclude exactly this sort of scenario as a direct result of bolstering terrorist ends. If the exploding airliners didn't do it, then this atrocity-in-the-making should serve as the big wakeup call Russia has been begging for on its hands and knees.
Putin deserves to have this albatross hung squarely around his bloodstained neck.
Immediately after 9-11, I openly advocated carpet bombing Kandahar to nail mullah Omar and send a message in general. This would have been a war crime, and as a consequence I am glad it did not happen, despite how we missed a perfect opportunity to take out a huge gathering of Taleban clerics only days before our invasion.
I see nothing worthy of surprise about this schoolchildren hostage crisis. Islamists have no limits to their perfidy and this is only another example of it. If they could find a large enough nursery school, they'd storm it too. I hope everyone notes the lack of any headlines devoted to moderate Muslims denouncing this atrocity. Once again, Islam's silence is thundering.
There's not much sand left in the hourglass before Islam is dismantled by an outraged world that is sick to death of this evil. If Muslims had any brains, they would send squadrons of their own fighters into Checnya and begin cleaning out the terrorists in a demonstration of their resolve to combat this malignancy. Only this sort of direct Islamic retaliation against such defiling of their religion will persuade the outside world of their worth as a faith. Otherwise, Islam will soon enough have a chance to kiss their collective kneeling @sses goodbye.
#79
Righteous, A6166 - got a name / nym? Stick around - you've got a solid handle on the situation. Plz pick a posting handle so we can connect this post to your future posts. Thx for this one, spot-on!
I guess the only silver lining is that they just guaranteed Bush's reelection.
Badnov - heh, I guess I sound a bit goofy - but these people are causing me to think of things like good and evil. How dark does your mind have to be to find a way to not only justify, but to enjoy these events.
I'm afraid for what is coming next. We are capable of terrible things - every war has proven that. It's no longer a question of if, but when.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 17:32 Comments ||
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#83
The hell with idiots like Murat. We need to get Turkey into the EU-- showing them in the process that France by opposing Turkey's membership has thrown in its lot with the jihadists-- in exchange for a separate cooperation agreement involving us, Turkey, Israel and India. We can manage the Russian relnship separately and eventually fold it into a Eurasian Security Organization.
#84
I feel you're correct B. I have a horrible foreboding of what may happen.
There was a post on Wretchard, the "Three Conjectures" post I think, where he said that if it wasn't America (or the West) that destroyed Islam, it would be the Russians or the Chinese.
There is a dreadful inevitability of events unfolding here, which we seem powerless to stop; the Islamists will keep pushing to higher (lower?) levels of atrocity, all the while claiming to be persecuted, until finally they detonate a bomb (or ten), or release a toxin (or ten), and the World finally says 'enough'.
I've seen precious little from the Islamic world since 9/11 to make me believe they realise how phenomenally high the stakes are, certainly no blanket condemnation, no Islamic 'murder squads' to excise the cancer in their religion - nothing.
Perhaps the joke about why aren't there any Arabs in Star Trek isn't a joke - it's a prophecy.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/01/2004 17:50 Comments ||
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#85
There is a dreadful inevitability of events unfolding here, which we seem powerless to stop;
It's a shame that the Muslims don't realize this as the mob in Nepal is just the first shot across the bow. They could stop it if they wanted to - but its now clear that they won't.
I've always said that Putin will inevitably join the US in this fight out of sheer naked interest. He's jabbering with France and Germany right now - but its clear that bandwagon has no engine.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 18:04 Comments ||
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#86
oops...self-interest. Muslims everywhere should hope nothing happens to those children. Blaming Putin isn't goint to work this time around.
Posted by: B ||
09/01/2004 18:07 Comments ||
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#88
Looks like someones going to have their share of raisins sooner rather than later ... good.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/01/2004 18:28 Comments ||
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#89
"I've seen precious little from the Islamic world since 9/11 to make me believe they realise how phenomenally high the stakes are, certainly no blanket condemnation, no Islamic 'murder squads' to excise the cancer in their religion - nothing."
Same here-- I've seen absolutely nothing to support the notion that Islam is a "religion of peace", or for that matter that it's anything other than a primitive murder cult.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/01/2004 18:39 Comments ||
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#90
#84 There was a post on Wretchard, the "Three Conjectures" post I think, where he said that if it wasn't America (or the West) that destroyed Islam, it would be the Russians or the Chinese.
Here's the link, Tony. This piece should be required reading for anyone wishing to have an informed opinion regarding the war on terrorism. It also needs to be distributed throughout every mosque in the entire world. Muslims somehow manage to ignore the way Islamists are playing with matches in a powder magazine. This is literally going to blow up in their collective faces.
Here's the exact passage you were referring to, Tony:
The most startling result of this analysis is that a catastrophic outcome for Islam is guaranteed whether America retaliates or not. Even if the President decided to let all Americans die to expiate their historical guilt, why would Islamic terrorists stop after that? They would move on to Europe and Asia until finally China, Russia, Japan, India or Israel, none of them squeamish, wrote -1 x 10^9 in the final right hand column. They too would be prisoners of the same dynamic, and they too have weapons of mass destruction.
#91
Nice to see Murat's trolling didn't go unnoticed or unresponded to - Steve White, still think he's an alright, but slightly misguided, guy? I scraped better off my shoe where an inattentive owner walked their dog
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/01/2004 19:11 Comments ||
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#92
How dark does your mind have to be to find a way to not only justify, but to enjoy these events.
So dark that it can only be illuminated by the flash of a nuclear bomb.
#93
OK - NTV new report : with the help of freetranslation.com as of 03:00 AM Moscow time Thursday
The gangsters have decided, those who began the storm and opened shooting not to communicate . . .
As the chief of a North Caucasian bureau of NTV Ruslan of Hussars informs from Beslan, the situation near the school seized by gangsters remains the same, as it was an hour back. It means that terrorists, though with them communication(connection) is established, very badly goes contact. And, as a rule, these contacts have unilateral character.
Still terrorists do not allow to bring into the school food stuffs and water for children. And now it, perhaps, it is the most important problem, concerning the school staff.
All efforts of the school staff at present, according to their representative, are directed on somehow all the same to transfer children and other hostages food stuffs and water.
#96
Was just listening to the replay of Sean Hannity's afternoon show. The round table of Sean, Neal Boortz, Dennis Prager and (via telephone) Ann Coulter were just lamenting the same lack of attribution.
#97
True German Ally et al are on to something. CNN...ABC News... are not on the side of the American people. Their propoganda for the enemy in a time of war is dangerous.
Dusk was falling over the Chechen village of Kirov-Yurt when the Russian troops approached Uvais Nagayev, 32, at the gate of his family house. They asked him and his friend Zaur Dagayev, 29, for their passports, beat them to the ground, and dragged them to a nearby cemetery. They made the men lie down on gravestones and shot them. Mr Dagayev was killed outright. Mr Nagayev, wounded, managed to crawl home under cover of darkness. Six days later, on May 3 2001, he was taken from his home again by Russian troops. This time he did not return. His family heard nothing more of him until a Russian security officer told them he had been tortured, forced to confess some unspecified crimes, and killed. His body was blown up with explosive, a common tactic to hide the identity of victims.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 2:06:05 AM ||
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#1
Next time kill the wives as well.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/01/2004 4:24 Comments ||
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#2
Zarema Muzhakhoyeva, 23, was arrested after she failed to detonate a bomb (3) outside a restaurant in central Moscow. She told Izvestiya that she had joined a Wahhabite (1) group after being ostracised by her family for stealing (2) jewellery
Did they whack of her hand(2) before depositing a black schmock (1) over her head, and wiring her up incompetently(3)?
#3
The solution may be to start killing Wahhabi priests. I think it's a far more targeted solution than some of the other things being proposed. Kill the priests and kill the large donors.
#4
Yup, I agree with ZF - once the brainwashing bastards that are bankrolling these attacks start dying off in large numbers, we'll see some changes.
Someone in the School Hostage thread was suggesting wasting some SA princelings as payback. Suits me. That and the .com 40k (TM) plan will do me just fine...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/01/2004 18:12 Comments ||
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#5
Zhang's solution is nice. But when the bad guys hide in sacred mosques at the bare minimum use tear gas to get them out. Although I would prefer those microwave crowd control directed energy thingys.. much better "cool" effect
#6
The solution may be to start killing Wahhabi priests.
I concur, Zhang Fei. Wahhabism needs to be reclassified as a political ideology and no longer as a religion. Wahhabists should be fair game wherever they are. If they're so bloody proud of their violent sect, they can stand up and take a bullet for it. Make martyrs out of every last stinking cleric and adherent until there's no one to revere them anymore. I hear there's a large concentration of them in Saudi Arabia. Let's put the Kingdom at the top of our Christmas list.
A bomb explosion killed four people and wounded fifteen others at a sweet shop in Qalat, a small town 140km south of Quetta on Tuesday. The three dead included two intelligence officers. According to police, the homemade bomb had been planted inside the shop. The explosion occurred at about 1130am, said Provincial Home Secretary Abdul Rauf. No one has claimed responsibility for the blast and it was not immediately clear who was behind it. Police said investigations were underway. The three men who died were intelligence officers Syed Tauqir Shah and Mushtaq Shah, and the shopkeeper, Sheikh Manzoor. The fifteen wounded were taken to Qalat Civil Hospital. It wasn't clear if the two law enforcement agents were the targets, although police official Salim Lehri said they routinely went there for breakfast and lunch. It is believed the two officers were eating when the bomb exploded.
The explosion also damaged several nearby shops and an electrical transformer that caused a power cut in the area. Officials say the violence in Balochistan is not connected with the ongoing military campaign against Al Qaeda militants in the semi-autonomous western tribal regions of Pakistan.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 2:00:04 AM ||
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Commies or royalists?
A mob set fire to Kathmandu's biggest mosque on Wednesday after Islamic militants in Iraq killed 12 Nepalese hostages, witnesses said. The protestors also destroyed furniture and electrical equipment in the Jama Masjid mosque, they said. Riot police used batons to try to control the angry protestors, the police said. Meanwhile, hundreds of angry youth even attacked private employment agencies in Kathmandu, blaming them for sending the 12 Nepalese jobseekers to Iraq. They also smashed the windows of the government Department of Labour and Employment office in the capital, the police said. The government, wary it will be targeted for its failure to secure the release of the hostages, beefed up security at important offices, an official said.
Demonstrations erupted in the capital Kathmandu late on Tuesday after news that the 12, who had left the impoverished kingdom in search of jobs, had been executed by militants who had abducted them about 10 days ago, accusing them of co-operating with US forces. Around 50 people demonstrated outside a mosque in Kathmandu on Tuesday night. They burnt tyres and demanded punishment for those behind the murders, the police said. A statement announcing the killings was posted on an Islamist website by an Al Qaeda-linked group called the Army of Ansar al-Sunna and accompanied by pictures and video footage of the killings.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/01/2004 1:52:26 AM ||
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#1
Commies or royalists? Methinks rightfully pissed off Hindus.
#4
The Nepalese should be pissed. Here is a photo of the bodies lined up in a pit. Looks like they were shot at the top of the photo, then lined up for presentation. Yahoo photo link
Posted by: ed ||
09/01/2004 3:15 Comments ||
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#5
Very sad ed. Couldn't they have just taken a knee for mohhamed.(
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/01/2004 1:31 Comments ||
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#2
I dunno. Maybe that flight really was used in some kind of training session for a bunch of candidates, but you'd think it would be easier to train "potty-bombers" on the ground. And it seemed like an awful lot of "martyrs" to use up for a single airplane bombing.
If it was baddies after all (yes, I read Sensing's summaries), I'd think it more likely they were working out how to do a hijack using assembled weapons and a lot of warm bodies.
Posted by: James ||
09/01/2004 15:17 Comments ||
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#3
It is a gross idea, but what if they have 14 or so guys because the explosives have been swallowed.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/01/2004 17:03 Comments ||
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#4
Russian Airliners Were Likely Exploded From Their Toilets
#5
Listen I know it's a reach, but these folks could all have been suffering from TF or Terminal Flatulence. Please here me out, our logo of the exploding toilet may given the Russian authorities to much of a hint.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
An armed gang holding at least 120 hostages at a school in southern Russia on Wednesday threatened to kill 50 children for every one of their number killed by security forces, the region's interior minister said. The official, Kazbek Dzantiyev, told local journalists in Beslan in Russia's North Ossetia region: "They have said that for every fighter wiped out they will kill 50 children and for every fighter wounded — 20."
Armed attackers on Wednesday took at least 200 schoolchildren hostage in the southern Russian province of North Ossetia, Itar-Tass news agency quoted local officials as saying. Interfax news agency quoted local police as saying women and men wearing belts of explosives were among the attackers in the Ossetian town of Bislan, not far from the rebel province of Chechnya. A gunbattle broke out with police near the building after the assault on the school. It said at least one man had been killed in the shootout. The agency said the gunmen may also have attacked a second school, but other agencies did not confirm this. The gunmen staged their attack on the first day of the new school year. Russian President Vladimir Putin's envoy in the region said: "At the moment police are being called to the scene. It is not immediately clear how many schoolchildren and parents have been taken. "There is a shootout in the area," the envoy, Vladimir Yakovlev said.
