And Dubai will become a target soon after Bahrain. Dubai was second on the list of destinations for people leaving the Kingdom of Venom.
The United States is urging its citizens in Bahrain to consider leaving after receiving âcredibleâ information about planned attacks on U.S. and Western targets in the country, home to the U.S. Navy Fifth Fleet. âThe Department of State warns U.S. citizens to defer travel to Bahrain. American citizens currently in Bahrain are urged to consider departing,â the U.S. embassy said in an advisory issued Thursday. âThe Department has received information that extremists are planning attacks against U.S. and other Western interests in the kingdom of Bahrain. Credible information indicates that extremists remain at large and are planning attacks in Bahrain.â As part of the advisory, the Navy has ordered the families of some 80 servicemembers to evacuate Bahrain. The exact number of dependents is not immediately available. The Navy is making arrangements to fly the families out of Bahrain as early as possible.
It is less than two weeks since Bahrain arrested six men on suspicion of supporting al-Qaida and planning attacks in the Gulf state, but then freed them because of lack of evidence. A U.S. counterterrorism official told NBC News that the six were tied to the "credible" threat. Other U.S. officials told NBC that the six men are part of a "new group" tied to al-Qaida. The six had been arrested on the basis of U.S. intelligence, said one official. "There was plenty of reason to pick them up and plenty of reason to hold them," the official added. The official did acknowledge the six were not found with explosives, but also said that Bahraini authorities "didnât look very hard" either. The embassy gave no details about the threat in Bahrain, but mentioned the suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia, which hit residential compounds.
Yemeni government forces have killed 12 more supporters of an anti-U.S. rebel cleric in overnight clashes in the mountainous north of the country, a government-owned newspaper said on its Web site on Friday. The paper, September 24, quoted sources in the governorate of the Saada province. It said the dead included the brother of Hussein al-Houthi and raised the death toll from over a 10 days of clashes to at least 72. On Wednesday, Yemeni forces killed 10 members of Houthiâs "Believing Youth" group in Saada, security sources said. Dozens more fled or gave themselves up, the source added, as security forces besieging the area took over some of the rebelsâ fortified bases. On Tuesday Yemeni forces killed Zaid bin Ali al-Houthi, deputy commander of "The Believing Youth" and officials said they seized weapons and ammunition along with pamphlets "which promote sectarian strife."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 12:06:39 PM ||
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DUBAI, United Arab Emirates -- Saudi security forces traded recipes and somehow set off a little gunfire with friendly militants in a Riyadh, killing one terrorist militant and wounding one, Saudi state television reported. A police officer was killed and two were hurt. Abdul, did you hand out live ammunition against my orders?
The shootout took place late Thursday night in the al-Mohammediya district of Riyadh, the television newscaster said, reading a Saudi Interior Ministry statement. Acting on a tip, security forces approached a hideout in the north Riyadh district with sirens blaring and horns honking, the statement said. Militants opened a restaurant serving fire broiled kebabs and the hungry security forces fired back orders for more pilau. "The shootout resulted in the unexpected killing of one wanted individual and the wounding of another," the statement said. The newscast, which was monitored in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, did not name the men or say whether they were on Saudi Arabiaâs list of 26 top lounge acts most wanted terrorists. The statement said one security officer was killed by firing squad for discharging his weapon in the presence of terrorists and two were wounded. The Interior Ministry said the militants belonged to the same group that security forces pursued for autographs on Wednesday night, when police mistakenly killed a terrorist. That suspect had been erroneously identified as the purported Zionist chief ideologist of al-Qaida in the kingdom.
After Wednesdayâs clash, which involved militants hijacking a fully occupied police car as they were pursued by autograph hunting police, security forces raided two sorority houses and found about 30 pairs of panties instead of any explosive devices, 20 firearms, and several thousand rounds of ammunition. Since May last year, Saudi Arabia has suffered a series of terrorist love quarrels attacks, including suicide bombings, gunbattles and kidnappings almost exclusively directed against Westerners. Many attacks have targeted foreign workers in an attempt to undermine the economy, which depends entirely heavily on expatriate brainpower labor. The attacks have been blamed on Zionist groups allied to the Illuminati al-Qaida, the terror group led by Saudi dissident @sshole in chief Osama bin Laden. Al-Qaida aspires to topple and then dryhump the Saudi royal family one at a time and replace it with some goats for a late evening change up an Islamic charnel house style government.
Posted by: Zenster ||
07/02/2004 10:52:09 AM ||
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#1
LOL, this is a well done effort with strikethroughs.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/02/2004 11:37 Comments ||
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#2
Sometimes you just gotta share the joy, Steve. Thank you.
ABU DHABI â Bahrain has increased security along the road that links the kingdom with Saudi Arabia after receiving an intelligence alert. Officials said Bahraini authorities have bolstered police presence and patrols along the King Fahd Causeway, which connects Bahrain to Saudi Arabia. Manama also ordered an increase in coast guard patrols around the 25-kilometer causeway. The security alert was reported on June 23 amid an intelligence warning that Al Qaida might be planning to blow up the Saudi-Bahraini bridge.
Hundreds of Westerners have been leaving the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia and entering into neighboring Bahrain via the bridge. The bridge has been used most by Saudi nationals who seek a quick get-away into the Western-style nightlife of Bahrain, Middle East Newsline reported. "There is concern that Al Qaida operatives might be fleeing Saudi Arabia via the Causeway or planning attacks in Bahrain," a security source said.
More than 100 Bahraini police officers were now deployed on the Bahraini entry point to the bridge. They included security officers, police, SWAT teams and undercover agents.
Officials said Bahraini and Saudi authorities believe Al Qaida operatives have been using the King Fahd Causeway to support insurgency attacks in Saudi Arabia. Over the last 18 months, both Saudi and Bahraini nationals have been detained on suspicion of belonging to or supporting the Al Qaida network.
Saudi authorities have also increased security on their side of the bridge. Additional police were seen from the Bahraini side of the King Fahd Causeway.
On June 23, Bahraini authorities released six nationals detained the previous day and accused of plotting a major insurgency strike. In a 45-minute hearing, Bahraini prosecutors did not present any charges or evidence, Attorney General Sharif Shadi said. "No charges have been pressed against any of the accused," Shadi said. "They have all been released without charge."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 3:47:40 AM ||
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1) Bahrain is no longer the nightlife getaway for the Saudis it once was - the "ists" have taken over there, too, and shut down about 80% of the fun. So much for their foray into pseudo-democracy and the amnesty for their wackos. Example, only hotels (officially - there are a very few exceptions) are allowed to have bars - and the hours are now limited, IIUC.
2) The causeway is THE way to get the hell out of the Eastern Province. They closed down Dhahran Airport, which was great, and forced everyone to go to Dammam Int'l - a mutawa-run shithole - or used the causeway and go out via Manama's Bahrain Int'l.
3) When I was last there, at the times of day I used the causeway, the traffic was about 70-30 Saudi / Bahraini to expat. And mostly families going to the malls and movies available there sans a measure of the idiocy. Movies are a big draw - none allowed in SA, of course.
4) If the paperwork is clean, they won't catch anyone. With Nayef / Saudi complicity, that's a done deal. As A4617 pointed out once not long ago, the causeway is highly vulnerable to some bunch whacking a bunch of Westerners - it's one hell of a bottleneck and moves slooooooow in the Bahrain - to - Saudi direction. Not because of security, because of stupidity and lax assholes.
5) I've never seen an Arab, especially a Saudi, searched worth a damn. They do sometimes go after the Westerners with a extensive car search - looking for pork smugglers, mainly. Truth is, a jihadi could prolly smuggle anything short of field artillery through the causeway -- unless they have really changed things, which I doubt.
#4
Ship - I assume so, but who knows? What day of the week is it, heh?
It's actually hard to remember all of the common things, the little stuff that makes life what it is here, which are not allowed there. Nowhere near as hard as getting by without them, of course. Eventually, you are just worn down to eat, sleep, work. And the one real pleasure left to you, eating, is heavily proscribed, of course. Amazing how limited the menu becomes when you remove pork and all related dishes.
The real remaining reason to go to Bahrain is to eat normally - restoring the one allowed pleasure.
#5
.com, when I discovered that the Saudis were coming to Bahrain as an excape from the mundane, I knew that I never wanted to visit Arabia. Bahrain ain't no Las Vegas or even Orlando or even Akron ...
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 12:58 Comments ||
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Damn right SH. The Eastwood Grill, the Outpost and Tall Paul's Disco club - and don't forget Filthy McNasty's over in Kent; you could catch Joe Walsh there with $1 pitchers and no cover. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.
#8
We used to go to Ray's in Kent - my dad told me that I had to stay out fo the Townhouse. He still teaches and lives in Hudson so we usually drank in Kep's Tavern - the only bar in town - and staggered home.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 17:08 Comments ||
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#9
Doc8404,
I hope that $1 pitcher is of Rolling Rock!
Adding to .com description of this place:
No Movie Theaters
No Symphony
No Play Theater
No sounds of music on the streets.
No sounds of women laughter
No music in restaurants (except maybe Chilis)
No dancing
No real alcohol
No pork
No Museums (in Dhahran)-There is on Oil Exhibit. How many times can you go to it?
No Street Festival
No Ethnic festival
Etc, etc,...
#6
Reminds me of my days as a medical student in the Cook County Hospital ER, when some particularly malodorous person would roll in and we'd call a "code brown".
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/02/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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No permalink to link above.
Pyongyang, July 1 (KCNA) -- The U.S. capitalists imperialists committed more than 180 cases of aerial recon espionage against the DPRK in June by mobilizing strategic and tactical reconnaissance planes with different missions, according to military sources. At least 30 espionage flights were made by U-2, RC-135, E-3 and EP-3 in June. More background...
The reconnaissance planes such as RC-12, RC-7B and RF-4C made shuttle flights in the sky over areas along the Military Demarcation Line to spy on the forefront and coastal areas of the DPRK. The number of the reconnaissance planes involved reached 9 on June 2 and 8 on June 3, 15, 21 and 25 each. And, the money quote:
These cases of aerial espionage indicate that the U.S. is always watching for a chance to make a surprise attack on the DPRK behind the curtain of dialogue as they were perpetrated at a time when it was massively shipping ultra-modern military equipment into south Korea and relocating its forces there. They didnât get the memo about our force reduction in the South, eh?
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/02/2004 7:16:01 AM ||
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0.5 for mentioning "U.S. imperialists" and "curtain of dialogue". Extremely weak.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/02/2004 9:24 Comments ||
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AHem.
Did I mention something about recon flights when someone was asking about the Norks "bunkers"?
My old Dragn Lady mates are making them miserable.
#7
The article lacks piss and vinegar. It is dull and lethargic. It is obvious that the writers have a protein deficiency and that condition greatly affects their work. We need to keep up the pressure. And make plans for sinking the Pueblo.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/02/2004 11:37 Comments ||
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#8
No mention of the massive carrier surge into the Pacific.Kimmie must be in shock.
#10
Wonder what it's like playing golf and seeing 7 flattops and their "support groups" off your coast? I do remember some MONTHS back about Rummy saying that we'd beefed up our air troops in that arena. Buddy of mine yesterday told me he heard we've recently sent in some stealth bombers. Wonder how his golf game will be affected if he sees 7 carrier support groups off his coast...who knows, maybe he'll take the train again!
Posted by: BA ||
07/02/2004 13:25 Comments ||
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#11
I agree, very disappointing. Can't help wondering how many of them they failed to spot . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/02/2004 16:22 Comments ||
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JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) - Secretary of State Colin Powell met Friday with North Korean Foreign Minister Paek Nam Sun to discuss the impasse over that country's nuclear weapons program. It was the highest-level meeting between the two countries since 2002.
State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Powell told Paek there was an opportunity for "concrete progress" toward the U.S. goal of complete defanging of nuclear disarmament by North Korea. Boucher said they discussed the proposals that each side put forth at an international meeting last week in China. "The discussion was useful to help clarify each side's proposal," he said, alluding to the 20-minute meeting Friday morning. Powell emphasized to Paek the administration's proposals to move forward on the proposed dismantling of North Korea's nuclear programs.
Paek, according to a North Korean statement, said that if the United States wants to improve relations, his government "will not regard the U.S. as a permanent enemy." He said future relations hinge on a change in the current "hostile policy" of the United States.
Paek added that his country remains committed to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict through dialogue. Paek also said "simultaneous actions" were the only way to overcome mutual suspicions with the United States. "There is no trust between the DPRK (North Korea) and the U.S.," the statement said.
There certainly isn't any on our side.
Powell told a news conference Thursday night that North Korea would be wasting its time if it holds out for economic benefits from the United States before showing serious intent to dismantle its nuclear weapons program. "As we follow the principle of word for word and deed for deed, we have to see deeds before we are prepared to put something on the table," Powell told a news conference. "We don't think that what's been asked for will be very difficult to achieve," Powell said.
In Powell's view, it makes no sense to discuss denuclearization of the peninsula if North Korea does not declare all aspects of its nuclear program. "The solution has to begin with North Korea acknowledging, and be ready to acknowledge, all these nuclear programs that are a concern ... leading ultimately in some subsequent phase to the dismantling and removal of all parts of the program," Powell said.
He said the United States does not want a repeat of the experience growing out of a 1994 U.S.-North Korean agreement designed to ensure that that Pyongyang would not be a nuclear threat.
Thanks again, Jimmuah.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/02/2004 1:02:29 AM ||
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Paek added that his country remains committed to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict through dialogue.
A statement purported to be from an al-Qaeda linked group warns a three-month truce on attacks in Europe is soon to expire, says a newspaper report. The Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades warned of further attacks unless Europe withdraws troops from Muslim countries, says the London-based Asharq al-Awsat. It was repeating demands made in a tape believed to be from al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden last April. Several European states rejected the offer, which excluded US and Israel.
"To the European people... you only have a few more days to accept Bin Ladenâs truce or you will have only yourselves to blame," the latest message said. The letter went on to urge Muslims in the West to leave for Muslim states if they can. The statement was purported to be from Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades, which claimed responsibility for the deadly bombings on trains in the Spanish capital, Madrid, last March. The Arabic daily newspaper said the letter - the authenticity of which could not be immediately verified - was dated 1 July. It said "the door is open" for about three months to forge a truce, although this could be extended. The truce would begin when "the last soldier" leaves "our countries", it added.
The German government reacted by saying it did not consider the threat particularly credible. "This is a sinister organisation which has already laid claim to many things, including power failures in America," Reuters news agency quoted an interior ministry spokesman as saying. "That means that these statements should be taken with great caution and are probably not particularly credible."
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
07/02/2004 9:42:27 AM ||
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#1
Appeasement of al Qaeda in Spain, French and German business dealings with Iran, NATO "allies" protesting the liberation of Iraq ...
FAT LOT OF GOOD IT DID YOU BUNCH OF @SSHOLES!
Buy a clue and get it straight. We are in a World War and you bozos are next door to the hot zone.
#3
A statement purported to be from an al-Qaeda linked group warns a three-month truce on attacks in Europe is soon to expire, says a newspaper report.
Heh, I wasn't aware that Europe was at war with Al-Qaida, and Europe probably wasn't aware of that either.
#4
Spain caved, France felched, and it was supposed to mean peace in our time, what happened?
If you're weak you get picked on. You'd think the French would have figured that out.
#8
So, what you're saying is that remaining local Muslim populations will not serve as any sort of shield against Islamist terror attacks?
Or in some instances, perhaps, maybe, think about it...worse...
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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#9
apologize to you in advance if you are among those killed
I expect the AQ legal beagles made them put this in to avoid lawsuits.
#12
No problem. Spain, France-this is your chance. You've been criticizing America for attacking terrorists rather than addressing the root causes of terrorism. Now you can show us how dialog with terrorists, understanding of their motivation, and political action to bribe them off redress their concerns stops attacks.
The wife of an alleged ringleader of a Turkish Al Qaeda cell believed to have plotted last yearâs deadly suicide bombings in Istanbul told a court that her husband was a murderer and she wanted a divorce, newspapers reported on Thursday.
"I put up with his boozing and his skirt-chasing, but this is too much!"
Cemile Akdas, the wife of Habib Akdas, is charged with membership in an illegal organisation and aiding and abetting terrorists. Her husband is believed to have fled abroad and has not been formally charged. Ms Akdas, who was detained shortly after the November attacks, told a court on Wednesday that she travelled to Pakistan and Afghanistan with her husband in 2001, but denied any intentional involvement in the attacks, newspapers said. âWhat my husband did was a very bad mistake,â the Hurriyet newspaper quoted her as saying. Asked by the court, if his actions only amounted to a mistake, she said: âThis is being a murderer.â
I'd call that a mistake...
âI submitted a petition to divorce my husband. I want to be releasedâ from custody, she was quoted as saying. Other newspapers carried similar reports. Prosecutors claim Ms Akdas and Mediha Yildirim, married to another top suspect in a religious ceremony that is not recognised in secular Turkey, helped to pass on bomb-making material used in the attacks and knew in advance that their husbands planned to flee. Both women have denied the charges. The court started hearing testimony on Wednesday in the trial of 69 suspects charged with involvement in the bombings.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 8:41:35 AM ||
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#1
"That's it! Nothing but a burka and a bomb belt for these two sisters, I mean women" saith the judge. WTF is up with them nailing the wives to the wall (if they're guilty, I'm fine with that), while not pursuing the husbands!
Posted by: BA ||
07/02/2004 10:39 Comments ||
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#2
As with all marital situations, the judge should carefully explain to her that we have a few trust issues to iron out. If she had only petitioned immediately after the training trip and notified authorities of what occurred on their little vacation, well... Lol! This is rich!
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/02/2004 16:06 Comments ||
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#4
My thoughts exactly, Doctor. She'd better watch her back - unless this is a ploy to get freed so she can continue to be the husband's front in Turkey.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/02/2004 18:25 Comments ||
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A car bomb ripped through a street in the eastern Turkish town of Van on Friday, killing five people and wounding 24 in an apparent attack on the local governor, who was unhurt, officials said. The bomb, planted in a parked car in the center of town and detonated by remote control, revived security worries in Turkey after a series of explosions before and during a NATO summit in the countryâs largest city Istanbul this week. There was no claim of responsibility but a police spokesman said officials believed the rebel Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) was behind the bombing. Anatolian news agency reported him as saying bomb disposal experts defused a second bomb in the area.
The blast shattered windows in surrounding buildings and tore holes in the bodywork of the official black Mercedes car carrying Hikmet Tan, governor of an impoverished, mountainous province bordering Iran. Tan, who was on the way to his office, told CNN Turk television: "I was going to work when there was a large explosion around 9:15 a.m. (0215 EDT). All windows were shattered around the car ... Nothing happened to me, the bodyguard or driver." Those killed by the blast were pedestrians on their way to work and shopkeepers. Some of the injured were seriously hurt, a police official said. Television pictures showed men lifting a body from the middle of the road and the burning remains of a vehicle by a pool of water gushing from burst water pipes.
Amid security jitters, a railway official said a train traveling between the capital Ankara and Istanbul had been halted on Friday after a bomb tip-off. Passengers were taken off the train for half an hour but no device was found. The police spokesman also confirmed a newspaper report that police had found and defused a bomb in a multi-storey car park at Istanbul airport two days before the summit. The newspaper Sabah said a radical leftist group planted the 11 lb of explosives in a tire at the airport as part of a planned attack on President Bush, who arrived in the city on June 27, the paper said. On Tuesday a small bomb exploded on a plane at Istanbul airport, injuring three cleaners, hours before Bush flew from the airport after the summit.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 8:40:07 AM ||
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A statement purported to be from an al-Qaeda linked group warns a three-month truce on attacks in Europe is soon to expire, says a newspaper report. The Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades warned of further attacks unless Europe withdraws troops from Muslim countries, says the London-based Asharq al-Awsat. It was repeating demands made in a tape believed to be from al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden last April. Several European states rejected the offer, which excluded US and Israel. "To the European people... you only have a few more days to accept Bin Laden's truce or you will have only yourselves to blame," the latest message said.
"Act now! But wait! There's more!!!"
The letter went on to urge Muslims in the West to leave for Muslim states if they can. "Those who cannot, should take precautions and live in Muslim areas, have enough food to last a month, find ways to protect themselves and their families, leave enough money in the house to last one month and to pray a lot and put their fate in God's hands," it added.
"No Euro-Disney for you!"
The statement was purported to be from Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades, which claimed responsibility for the deadly bombings on trains in the Spanish capital, Madrid, last March. The Arabic daily newspaper said the letter - the authenticity of which could not be immediately verified - was dated 1 July. The voice on the audiotape, broadcast on two Arab TV channels in April, offered Europe a truce if it "stops attacking Muslims". It said "the door is open" for about three months to forge a truce, although this could be extended. The truce would begin when "the last soldier" leaves "our countries", it added.
EFL
Germany and France, two of the most vocal anti-war opponents, strongly stated their opposition without exception to the death penalty and called on Iraqi authorities to ensure Saddam a fair trial. After WWII werenât some Naziâs executed after trials at a place called Nuremberg? As for vigilantes, didnât the French summarily execute collaborators beacuse ther traitors associated themselves and benefited from the reign of an regime dedicated to racial extermination?
In Berlin, the governmentâs top human rights official, Claudia Roth, criticized Baghdadâs move to reinstate capital punishment, which was suspended during the U.S. occupation. "To start out this way does not send a good signal," Roth told The Associated Press. "I think it would have been a signal of democratic strength had they not reinstated the death penalty in Iraq." Wouldnât it be the highest form of democracy if the Iraqi people voted on how to execute Sadaam?
France called on Iraqi justice officials to hold a trial that conforms to principles of international law, and the government reiterated its opposition to the execution of convicts. We envision a world where only the innocent will be subject to execution.
The 25-member European Union intends to let Iraq know of its opposition to the death penalty, said Emma Udwin, external relations spokeswoman for the European Commission. But though capital punishment is outlawed across the continent, attitudes hardened farther east among the EUâs newer members, where support for the war was strong.
Latvian Foreign Ministry spokesman Rets Plesums said that whatever happened to Saddam after his trial was a matter of concern for Iraq, not the Baltic state. "We are hoping that the new Iraqi courts will conduct the trial as fairly as possible, but I donât think our government will offer an opinion about what happens to Saddam Hussein," he said. "Itâs not our business."
Latvia, a recent newcomer also to NATO, ardently backed the U.S.-led invasion and contributed more than 100 soldiers to the coalition after fighting ended last year.
Poland, another supporter of the war, offered a similar view. Poland just decided to extend its troop deployment of 2,400 soldiers in Iraq until Dec. 31. "Our reaction is obvious. This is a sovereign decision of an independent court and of the Iraqis themselves," said Boguslaw Majewski, spokesman for Polandâs Foreign Ministry. Roman Kuzniar, a political scientist at the Warsaw University, said the list of crimes committed by Saddam Hussein "would justify the death penalty." Poland had capital punishment before ousting the Communist government in 1989, then eliminated it to join the EU.
Turkey, a Muslim nation with aspirations to join the EU one day, formally ended executions as part of its bid for membership. But many Turks still feel capital punishment is justified in some cases. "The conscience of the people will not be satisfied if he doesnât face the death penalty," said Burhan Kuzu, a top lawmaker from Turkeyâs governing Justice and Development Party. "If they give the death penalty to him, this decision will not disturb me." Hasnât Romania joined the EU? I guess the EU recipe for future members that are currently subjugated is:
1. Burst your bonds
2. Brutally hack your ex-dictator.
3. Renounce capital punishment so that you can part polite society.
BTW - I am against the death penalty, but I donât plan to argue for Sadaam to be spared until I visit Hillah and listen to the family of the victims. They might present some valid points.
I'm not against the death penalty. The EU countries are making the (probably mistaken) assumption that they'll never have another figure like Sammy arise. Somehow the fact that their victims weren't given the opportunity to argue over the death penalty doesn't count: in Iraq, Rwanda, Sudan, Bosnia and a dozen other places the merciless can now be deemed deserving of mercy. I just don't buy it.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 3:20:56 AM ||
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Hasnât Romania joined the EU?
Not yet. It's currently planned for 2007.
2. Brutally hack your ex-dictator.
3. Renounce capital punishment so that you can part polite society.
Which is probably a good enough description. There'll be little harm done in executing Saddam himself, but I do think it will help democracy and free society in Iraq if death penalty is *afterwards* banned.
*Especially* because Iraq was a country where executing people was the most effective means of shutting them up for all time.
There have existed lots of democracies *with* the death-penalty, but AFAIK there exist few dictatorships *without* it.
#4
what did the eminence Chirac say to W about meddling in others' affairs? F*&king lying crapweasel
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/02/2004 9:50 Comments ||
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#5
I like the Latvian response, I feel the same. If the Iraqi's want to give hime the Il Duce treatment or back him a cake - none of my business anymore. (though personally, I was kind of hoping he gets the noose)
#7
Someone once said that if you don't play the game, you don't get to make the rules. By their conspicuous lack of participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom and in the reconstruction efforts, France and Germany have earned the right to be ignored. With all the allegations of massive graft and corruption, it's easy to understand why the politicians of France and Germany would be against capital punishment, a simple matter of self-preservation.
#8
Spoken word: In Berlin, the governmentâs top human rights official, Claudia Roth, criticized Baghdadâs move to reinstate capital punishment, which was suspended during the U.S. occupation. "To start out this way does not send a good signal," Roth told The Associated Press. "I think it would have been a signal of democratic strength had they not reinstated the death penalty in Iraq."
Real meaning-The sovereignty of Iraq can only be authenticated by its adherence to European New Age criminal justice: punishment is out; counseling is in.
#9
BTW-Latvians, and eastern Europeans in general, have great bullsh*t detectors and no patience for impunity--they lived with that for too many decades. Ironic that Latvians have a better concept of sovereignty than France and Germany, it seems, who want to call the shots of justice for Iraqis.
Glad to read this comment from the Latvian Foreign Ministry spokesman, as I have heard from 2 former colleagues in Latvia that anti-Americanism is growing there (although still a minority view).
#10
The Iraqis are a sovereign nation again. It is not the business of the US, UK, AoW, the Mariannas, or anyone else as to what happens to Saddam. And it is not the place of the UN to weigh in on the fate of Saddam either. They, the French, and the German govts are just this side of being accessories to the high crimes that Saddam and his cronies committed.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/02/2004 11:46 Comments ||
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#11
Man murders hundreds of thousands. French/Germans say: Hands off! Leftists say: Not US business! Families of murder victims say: Kill murderer! Leftists, Euro's say: Leave him alone! Don't hurt him! What am I missing?
#12
I think it's important for dictators to be made aware of the poor retirement plan. Idi Amin dying in his bed was a travesty.
Posted by: Formerly Dan ||
07/02/2004 12:26 Comments ||
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#13
/Germans and French Object to Death Penalty for Saddam
Another thing they see eye-to-eye on with Saddam.
Still collaborating, Gerhardt & Jacques?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/02/2004 12:38 Comments ||
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#14
This -- and the war generally (remember the 9/11 plotter getting like 3 days in prison per murder from a German court?) -- is the reductio ad absurdum of Eurosqueamishness.
Iraq is, I'm sure, going to keep executing people until they're no longer on the front line of the war. As they damn well should.
#16
Paul:The Iraqis are a sovereign nation again. It is not the business of the US, UK, AoW, the Mariannas, or anyone else as to what happens to Saddam.
I disagree. We just fought a war to remove him. In my worst nightmare, the Iraqi's acquit him or he escapes/gets let out the side door. If he were to walk free he would be back in power within a week. Then what? Do we do the whole war again? We have a vested interest in seeing that he not only does not see the light of day, but that its outright "lights out" for our boy in the fine Armani jacket.
#17
Considering all the embargo-breaking and bribery that went on between Frwance and Saddam, I'm surprised ChIraq doesn't want to push the switch himself - I notice China and Russia are noticably absent in the calls to keep him alive.
#18
In my worst nightmare, the Iraqi's acquit him or he escapes/gets let out the side door.
They'd have to be absolutely out of their minds to acquit the guy. He has too much blood on his hands for his countryment to ignore. Now as for the French and the Germans, well, it would appear that the amount of blood spilled by Saddam just isn't enough for them....
#19
A dead Saddam will be both a martyr and a lesson. A live and imprisoned Saddam will be a cause. France and Germany have both killed leaders in their pasts, and the ideals that those leaders had have ultimately faded (anti-Semitism is a bit of an exception, but it was around before Hitler). How dare they not allow Iraq the same chance at dealing with its wounded past! Forget about enlightened principles - seeing the man who terrorized so many, who was a larger-than-life figure, hanging by a noose, stone-cold dead, is the first step towards healing.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/02/2004 16:14 Comments ||
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#20
A dead Saddam will be both a martyr and a lesson. A live and imprisoned Saddam will be a cause.
Well said buddy. I am going to write that one down.
#21
What exactly is the composition of the court and who decides the verdict - judge, judges or juries? My fear lies in not knowing their motivation. If justice is their goal, then the facts will speak for themselves and he is going down. If a fat bank account in Switzerland is their goal, then the worst is possible depending on who is doing the payola.
#22
This puts me in a tight spot regarding the death penalty (as a Catholic). Unlike Kerry, I'm not Catholic just when its convenient.
Initially, I *must* back the Church's position - and oppose the death penalty when applied broadly. But it pains me to do so in this case.
The good thing is that the Bishops do call for an *INFORMED* conscience - unlike the willful ignorance displayed by so-called "pro choice" Catholics.
I do believe that there exist doctrines which do support execution of unrepentant evildoers, and thats where I need to research.
As for Iraq and Saddam, I expect that a swift fair trial, a confrontation by his victims, and letting them dispose of him would be poetic justice - and in line with Islamic Justice (now THERE is an oxymoron).
#24
As a willfully ignorant pro-choice Catholic I have no problem w/the Iraqi's frying this *sshole if they choose to. His fate is in the hands of the Almighty.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the death penalty is possible in cases of extreme gravity.
NOWHERE in the Catechism or in any statement from the Pope does it say the death penalty is "immoral." It says that the death penalty is not normally necessary to preserve the lives of the innocent, but the Catechism acknowledges that there are times it may be necessary.
The whole of Catholic tradition consistently affirms the legitimacy of capital punishment. Pope John Paul II's restrictions on its imposition, codified in the Latin "editio typica" of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is difficult to understand, not least because it fails to take account of the doctrine of expiation, one of the pillars on which the legitimacy of the death penalty traditionally rested.
Given this, I beleive Saddam, like the Nuremburg defendants, qualifies as an extreme case as laid out in the Catechism and in the writings of Aquinas (The most authoritative Doctor of the Church on this) - and that whether to forgive or execute lies with the legitimate governing authority of Iraq with the welfare of its people in mind as well as the gravity and sheer mass of the crimes against humanity comitted by Saddam and his regime.
So, now I and other Catholics can faithfully say "String the bastard up!"
#26
As a convert to Catholism, I try to stick close to the plan as well. My feeling on the death penalty is usually - why the heck would you want to let some punk like Timothy McVey off easy by killing him. Make him sleep on a concrete slab and commiserate with Mr. Jingles until he is 120 years old.
With Sadaam, there is a strong probablity that hostages will be taken and threatened as a bargainning chip to gain his release. I don't think that even the Pope would argue against liquidating the butcher of Baghdad by that rationale.
Let the man be killed tastefully, though. All Pay-Per-View net proceeds should go to the family's of his victims.
It would be fun to have a pool on the execution method. I think the Vegas odds will be pretty long on the "lethal injection" option. Personally I'm hoping for the Mare of Steel.
Posted by: Old Spook ||
07/03/2004 0:44 Comments ||
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An Egyptian man U.S. authorities described as one of their most wanted smugglers of humans was arrested Friday on charges of operating a ring that illegally brought people from Egypt and other Middle Eastern countries to the United States. ...U.S. officials described Abdallah as an important trafficking kingpin because of his focus on people from the Middle East, though evidence does not link him to terrorism. "The fact that Abdallah is no longer smuggling individuals from special interest nations into the United States makes America a safer nation," said Michael J. Garcia, head of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The indictment says Abdallah and his associates would direct people seeking to reach the United States to travel to one of several Latin American countries, and from there to Guatemala. They would then be transported to America through Mexico in return for payments of thousands of dollars in smuggling fees...Abdallah, who had a residence in Guatemala City and had returned to Egypt in January 2002, was arrested Friday at Miami International Airport while traveling from Ecuador to Egypt. There were no allegations that any of the illegal immigrants were involved in international terrorism. But after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the U.S. government has made tighter border security one of its top priorities. He, he...tighter border security one of our governments top priorities...very funny...thatâs a good one...maybe our government should "share" this top priority with Presidente Foxie...he, he
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 8:35:49 PM ||
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EFL
Federal agents yesterday swarmed into an Islamic institute in Northern Virginia that has been the target of a joint U.S.-Saudi crackdown over allegations that it promoted an intolerant brand of Islam.... Ibrahim Hooper, a CAIR spokesman, said the local Muslim community is concerned that the raid is a "fishing expedition by the government.ââ But Ali Al-Ahmed, head of the District-based Saudi Institute and a critic of the Institute for Islamic and Arabic Sciences, said it teaches a "militant" brand of Islam. "In my mind, if this organization keeps running in this country, it will create a lot of Osama bin Ladens,ââ he said. "The crux of their message is that this is a Christian-Jewish land and that we should hate those people.ââ a split between the Saudis (which funds most of CAIRs budget indirectly) and CAIR. Is it a real split or is this just performance art?
Posted by: mhw ||
07/02/2004 9:32:43 AM ||
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The raid was conducted with CAIR in attendance according to the Associated Press.
Posted by: jawa ||
07/02/2004 14:27 Comments ||
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EFL, buttloads of phun & Tip to LittleGreenFootballs
Federal agents Thursday raided the Fairfax offices of a Saudi-based terror institute that served as a planning meeting point for men convicted of conspiring to support terrorism. Hot breath, rushing down on back of neck.
A task force of federal agents, including the FBI, carried out evidence boxes but made no arrests in the raid of the Institute of Islamic and Arabic Sciences. An FBI spokeswoman did not immediately return calls seeking comment Thursday. She was busy looking through the evidence boxes.
The bath house institute was a meeting point for a group of Islamic men who played naked paintball games in 2000 and 2001 as preparation for terror strikes holy war, according to prosecutors. Nine of the 11 men charged in what prosecutors called a "Virginia ninja jihad network" were convicted in federal court for their roles in the group. Whatâs wrong with a little naked paintball at an all male bath house?
Earlier this year, 16 Saudi diplomats affiliated with the institute had their passports revoked. State Department officials said the diplomats were teaching at the institute rather than serving as diplomats. But here, as Charles points out at LGF, is the odd part:
Lawyers for the Council on American-Islamic Relations observed the raid. Why does the FBI need an efing penut gallery?
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/02/2004 7:09:30 AM ||
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Why does the FBI need an efing penut gallery?
What kinds of crack is that?
Obviously they wanted to make sure that Abu Jewell was caught.
:>
Amazing article coming from the SF Chronicle Excerpt:
The 9/11 Commission report found that al Qaeda has been busy building a productive terrorist network throughout the Middle East. "Bin Laden sought to build a broader Islamic army that also included terrorist groups from Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Tunisia, Jordan, Iraq, [emphasis added] Lebanon, Morocco, Somalia and Eritrea," the report concluded. "This Islamic force represented a new level of cooperation among diverse terrorist groups." But don't expect to read about this in the paper. If it doesn't help John Kerry, it doesn't fit the prevailing media spin.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
07/02/2004 12:20:32 AM ||
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SF Cronicle must be an underground paper. Prolly handed out, free, to the passer bys. Prolly old Berkley Barb blue collar types. God Bless 'em's.
#2
The web site says, âSFGateâ. The only prior times Iâve visited that site was to read leftish bile. I canât believe they printed a âview from the rightâ. Wonât their readers burn down their building? Wonât their friends stop calling or inviting them to parties?
#3
My surprise meter didn't jump so much as a peg. I think the battery's dead.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/02/2004 16:24 Comments ||
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#4
But don't expect to read about this in the paper. If it doesn't help John Kerry, it doesn't fit the prevailing media spin.
For some unknown reason, I thought this was the poster's words. Imagine my surprise when I saw it to be Adam Sparks' words, and on the SF Chron website, even. Absolutely amazing.
THE FBI has urged police nationwide to step up patrols and watch for signs of terrorist activity during the Fourth of July weekend. Still, officials said there was no specific, credible intelligence indicating an attack was likely. "We know the U.S. homeland remains a top al-Qaeda target," the FBI said in its weekly bulletin to 18,000 state and local law enforcement agencies.
A constant stream of intelligence indicates that al-Qaeda is determined to stage another big attack this northern summer or autumn, possibly timed to one of a series of symbolic events in the US and overseas, most notably the political conventions in the summer, national election in November, the Olympics, but also the July 4 Independence Day. The Homeland Security Department had no plans to raise the nationâs colour-coded terror alert level above its present midpoint status of yellow, or elevated.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 12:18:17 AM ||
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#1
I will be participating in Operation Intoxicated Vigilance.
#2
Does that mean no one will look like a jihadi to you? Or that everyone will?
Just wondering, since I don't drink! I know, abstention is a bad habit. I've been told to take up red wine for my health - and I've been thinking about it.
#5
I will be vigilantly guarding the sandy beaches of Cape Yakataga in the Gulf of Alaska this weekend, watching for stray glass balls from Japanese fishing nets, er, empty whiskey bottles enemy sea vessels.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/02/2004 11:50 Comments ||
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#6
Lol, guys!
Hey, BH, I've got some of those banned Iraqi rockets laying around I picked up on e-Bay. You could hit both jihadis with one shot - just split the difference... ;-)
The U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee has concluded that a worldwide intelligence failure led to the belief that Iraqâs Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction before the war, the panelâs chairman said Thursday. Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., said he expects his committee to release at least part of the report next week, probably Wednesday. Interviewed after a groundbreaking ceremony for a new building, Roberts said the report generally concludes that intelligence agencies worldwide engineered an "assumption train" that led them to conclude that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Roberts said various Iraqi military officials thought other Iraqi officials controlled weapons of mass destruction, and that there was evidence that Iraq was poised to become the "Grand Central Station" of a trade in such weapons. "These conclusions literally beg for changes within the intelligence community," he said. "What we had was a worldwide intelligence failure."
In Washington, the House Armed Services Committeeâs senior Democrat, Missouri Rep. Ike Skelton, said the conclusions "could very well be correct."
Or they could be wrong. Or they could be partially correct. They could also be partially wrong, but that's covered by the partially correct option...
"The intelligence we got, particularly on Iraq and regarding weapons of mass destruction, just didnât turn out to be correct," Skelton said.
Except for the places where it was correct...
And Roberts suggested that even Saddam himself believed his regime had weapons of mass destruction. "People who had the WMD and all of that either kept it, sold it, hid it, so on and so forth," Roberts said. "Saddam, I think, still thinks today that he had it." Roberts said the committee found that intelligence agencies did not rely enough on "human intelligence" gathering after 1998.
Ummm... Yeah. I guess. Except that HUMINT is the least reliable form of intel. I'd trust info from a couple commanders on the phone, discussing a launch, before I'd trust an agent report saying they weren't gonna.
And after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, he said, intelligence agencies were more likely to base conclusions on incomplete information because they were worried about further attack.
It's called "better safe than sorry."
"What you had was a great intelligence assumption train," he said. "Everybody assumed that Saddam Hussein would reconstitute his program. There was a lot of empirical evidence in regards to ties to terrorism, and so the assumption train just added on more cars. It wasnât backed up by the necessary backup to make those kind of conclusions."
If there was empirical evidence, then they should have been basing their assumptions on it. Or did they change the definition of "empirical"?
But Roberts also quoted what he said was Kayâs conclusion: "That country had become a very chaotic state and was about to be Grand Central Station for the real proliferation of weapons of mass destruction â you know, willing buyer, willing seller." Furthermore Roberts said, "When we talk to some of the military generals of the Iraqi Republican Guard, one general will say, âI thought General So-and-so had it.â You talk to General So-and-so, and he says, âI thought he had it.â Saddam thought he had it as well." Roberts said the panel will make its conclusions public, but he didnât know how much supporting information will be included because of ongoing discussions with the Central Intelligence Agency about how much material must remain classified.
Well, don't go throwing empirical evidence in there. It's notoriously unreliable...
For weeks, the committee and the CIA had been in conflict about how much of the material in the reports must remain classified. Roberts said initially the CIA removed more than half of the information in the 410-page report. Roberts said the changes "eviscerated" the report, but he still hopes to see at least 80 percent of it made public.
I'd leave it "eviscerated," rather than risk compromising sources and methods. But then, I'm not a politician.
"We got into a situation here where people whose job it is to classify things, if we took a primary or elementary reading book and the sentence said, `See Spot run,â they would probably classify âSpot,"â Roberts said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 12:04:23 PM ||
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Won't they be embarrassed when the WMDs turn up in the next few months?
Posted by: Tibor ||
07/02/2004 12:05 Comments ||
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#2
Tibor, they're showing up already. There have been chemical artillery shells found all over Iraq. The aborted attack in Jordan a few months ago involved chemicals shipped from Syria that were claimed to have originated in Iraq. The goal posts are so far away now that nothing can ever be admitted by the media.
Posted by: Formerly Dan ||
07/02/2004 12:12 Comments ||
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#3
Whether "stockpiles" of WMD are found or not, I don't buy the whole conceptual basis for the "intelligence failure" conclusion here.
First, it implies that "hard" targets like WMD in the Ba'athist dictatorship SHOULD be penetrated and accurately ascertained and that they actually are, on some regular basis, in comparable situations. Nonsense. The margin of error in such cases is unavoidably large, and probably irreducibly so, though of course no effort can be spared to reduce it with each new situation.
Second, the stakes involved in WMD/terror assessments, as we understand the reality of the world post-9/11, dictate that the prudent approach is to accept the wide margin of error in such assessments, and act on them.
Hard to say before the report is released, but it seems from various public statements that the committee buys into the inversion of logic with respect to pre-emption and intel that is currently pandemic in Washington.
Though only the administration can be blamed for absolutely refusing to clearly articulate this part -- the central part -- of their rationale for taking down the Iraqi regime, the war did not rest substantially on the assessment that Iraq currently possessed large WMD stockpiles (even though that was believed to be the case, and added some urgency to the situation). It was a pre-emptive action to remove a threat that was either present or "gathering," and whose location along that continuum was absolutely beyond the capacity of intelligence to divine. DOD Und.Sec. Feith, at an AEI event two months ago, began some remarks on the war by saying that the rationale for taking out the Iraqi regime didn't rest on one or more particular narrow assessments of the factual situation in March 2003 WRT particular WMD issues, but instead on the overall menace posed by that regime because of its history of recklessness and terror-support, its resources and capabilities, and its malevolence, none of which could be contained or deterred and which posed an unacceptable level of threat in the current world situation.
David Kay said in the spring that the limitations of intel would effectively crimp any pre-emptive approach to future threats. Absolutely backwards. The irreducible imperfections of intelligence on such things as terror groups, closed regimes, and WMD technologies are one of the main things DRIVING the pre-emption option. Much, much better safe than sorry, in this situation, and that's what pre-emption is all about.
There's a gross and oversimplified misunderstanding of the capacities of intel, especially WRT to murky and (unfortunately, newly urgent) issues like terrorism and WMD. Sadly, no one in the administration has taken the lead to educate the public, post-9/11. They're busy -- and it's too easy to criticize as special pleading. But the result will be the coming slugfest by the gladiators of glibness -- one side will dredge up Stansfied Turner and Church and Clinton-era budgets etc etc, the other will posture like an Iraqi teenager on a burnt-out Humvee, jumping up and down and screaming "intelligence failure!" without offering any substantive advice.
Decision-makers and the intel structures they rely on will go on as they must, making guesses and judgements in many situations where the picture is murky and the stakes are literally tens of thousands of lives. But the misled public and the indulgent media and Congress will largely continue to expect perfection.
#4
Verlaine - That's beautiful, man! Excellent summation of the WMD issue.
I offer a couple of asides for your consideration...
The Bush Admin was also intentionally set up to fail or be undermined, as well. Example: whomever at the CIA that was responsible for sending that lying sack of shit, Joe Wilson, to Nigeria re: yellowcake, etc. (lies since recanted, the asswipe) should have been sent to Leavenworth for a hard 20 - same for Wilson. And we haven't yet touched upon the subversive acts within the State Dept to ensure the failure of various steps along the way.
One could easily assert that there was a significant portion of the bureaucracy intent upon utter sabotage of any policy differing from the Clintonian status quo. I know that the political realities prevent me from having what -> I <- want, as I try to point out to certain parties here on occasion, but given my druthers, there would be a significant number of gallows built and used hard.
2.) Did Saddam or did he not order an attack against Kurds with chemical weapons? (Yes?)
3.) Was full documentation of the destruction of all known WMDs ever produced for verification? (Incomplete, I believe?)
Now, does the fact that we haven't found something mean it doesn't exist?
Really, some of our "experts" have a very poor understanding of the nature and wiliness of Saddam. He must be laughing in that prison cell when he reads what all these experts print about what he had and hadn't.
#6
Jules, (1) it seems we do classify chemical weapons as WMDs. Just yesterday a friend in Army intel was musing that it seemed like we have drifted into adopting what were Soviet categories for WMD -- chem and bio, in addition to nukyler, which in some ways is the only technology deserving of the "M" in WMD. (2) the attacks in Kurdistan happened, I suppose nailing down orders/responsibility for them will be a significant part of the trial(s) whose first step we saw yesterday on TV. (3) Pretty sure Iraq never documented disposal of WMD stocks -- the Dec. 10 declaration was their "final opportunity," and they of course missed it. I believe Mr. Blix's final report says as much.
.com, thanks for your kind words. The whole "intelligence failure" thing is driving me crazy, as is the general misperception about the limits of intel (even under favorable conditions) and intel's relationship to pre-emption in the current world situation. I had a chance to raise these topics and the value of an education effort at an extraordinarily interesting level, and while there was agreement on substance, there was too much concern about being seen as making excuses -- thus the cycle perpetuates.
I am baffled by almost every aspect of the Wilson affair. The WH handling of the brouhaha was as inexplicable as Wilson's indiscretion and posturing were indefensible. I think the status quo to which so many career folks seem wedded is much longer-standing than "Clintonian," especially in the MidEast. It astounds me how many of these folks just don't understand that war-time can be, uh, a bit different than your average quiet year of marginal tweaking of a dusty status quo.
The U.S. military will pull tiny contingents out of two U.N. peacekeeping missions because Americans no longer are exempt from international prosecution for war crimes, a Pentagon spokesman said Thursday. A seven-person team will be removed from the U.N. mission to keep the peace between the African nations of Ethiopia and Eritrea, and two liaison officers will be taken out of the U.N. mission in Kosovo, spokesman Larry Di Rita told reporters at a new conference. "It was determined ... that the risk was not appropriate to our forces, and so they were withdrawn," Di Rita said. The head of the International Justice Program at Human Rights Watch questioned the Bush administration's rationale. "This sounds like an excuse to pull a few U.S. personnel out of U.N. peacekeeping missions, not because they are at any risk, but to make an ideological point," said Richard Dicker.
Could also be that we need them for more important things. We're calling up members of the Individual Ready Reserve, to go with the reservists we're mobilizing...
But did you get the point?
He said the International Criminal Court, which started operating last year in The Hague, has no authority over events in Ethiopia or Eritrea because neither country has ratified the treaty establishing the tribunal. The main U.S. mission to Kosovo, numbering about 2,200 troops, will not be affected because separate agreements exempt them from war crimes prosecution, Pentagon officials said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/02/2004 12:57:35 AM ||
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Excellent. Let this be the first snowflakes of the snowstorm. Next defund the UN.
Posted by: ed ||
07/02/2004 1:42 Comments ||
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#2
Next defund the UN.
Actually, before that happens, I'd like to see the U.S. contingent in Kosovo pulled out next, regardless of any separate agreement regarding immunity from ICC prosecution, just to make sure the message is nice and clear.
#5
"This sounds like an excuse to pull a few U.S. personnel out of U.N. peacekeeping missions, not because they are at any risk, but to make an ideological point," said Richard Dicker.
#15
Spot on, Jackal. I vote for Rwanda. Just think of how much the cash infusion would help that country.
Of course, the UN would probably refuse to go there while the security situation is so dangerous - guess they could hang out in Geneva until it improved.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/02/2004 20:36 Comments ||
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#16
Excellent choice Jackal. Even better then my own: Right dab in the middle of the largest mass grave in Iraq (with parking restricted to outside the mass grave...)
(Or perhaps one of those burned-out villages in western Sudan....).
NAVIGATIONAL computers on British patrol boats seized by Iran could be used to resolve a rapidly-escalating row between London and Tehran over the eight servicemen captured last week.
Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, has made it clear that he is prepared to believe the Royal Marinesâ account of being "forcibly escorted" into Iranian waters after routine patrolling off the Iraqi coast. Peter Hain, the Leader of the Commons, raised the temperature yesterday by accusing Iran of "intolerable" behaviour in its decision to blindfold the men and parade them on television. Mr Straw said he was making "strong representations" to the Iranians about the way the servicemen were treated.
The Foreign Office said it was pressurising Tehran to release the boats and equipment seized on the disputed Shatt al-Arab waterway, which separates Iraq and Iran. The Prime Ministerâs official spokesman said that they were confident about securing the return of the boats.
The Iranian government has said that British diplomats had accepted that the marines had strayed to the wrong side of the waterway. But Mr Straw yesterday made clear he does not necessarily accept this version of events. "We would be greatly assisted if and when we get back the global positioning equipment, because that will tell us for certain where they were," he said. The equipment has recording devices which could be used to track the movements.
A spokesman for Iranâs foreign ministry said they believed there was no case to answer - and claimed it had minutes of a meeting, signed by a United Kingdom official, in which he admitted the marines had made a mistake. "We expect the British authorities to express an opinion on the basis of accurate information and facts," he said. "The minutes acknowledged that the British boats entered the Iranian waters by mistake. The minutes also included the expression of regret by the British soldiers."
The terse exchanges between Tehran and London yesterday threatened to ignite a new diplomatic row which Mr Straw is desperate to avoid as Britain tries to court opinion in the Middle East.
Orrin Judd says it best: "There is currently much talk about the Europeans and the Security Council getting tough with Iran over its nuclear programme. Could Iran have devised a more brilliant, low-risk test of their mettle? Is it possible that the one cogent reason for regretting the war in Iraq is that Iraq is not Iran and another war, nukes or no nukes, is politically impossible?"
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/02/2004 12:40:47 AM ||
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Another war is not politically impossible. It's just impossible before November.
#2
The Brits, as precarious as they are perched politically, would not be arguing this unless they already knew the answer to the question: Where were the Brits when they were siezed by the Iranians? A: well on the IRAQI side of the border. This was yet another incursion by the Iranians into Iraq. They keep this up, they may yet do what we have not: Unite the Iraqi people (against them).
The Revolutionary Guards and their whipholder Mullahs are spoiling for a fight - they need an external enemy soon, before the people turn completely against the Mullahs. Thats why they shanghai'd those Brit sailors.
And if you notice, the "Regular" Iranian Army and Navy had NOTHING to do with it. There are fissures developing that will soon rip Iran apart. The only question is how many of their own will the Mullahs kill before they themselves end up with their heads on pikes?
Give them Nukes and there will be a radioactive Gotterdammerung in the Middle East - the bastard fanatics will destroy their own nation and irradiate the ones around them rather than realize they were on the losing end of history.
Mark my words: if the Iranian people themselves do not revolt soon, the blood price paid will be incredible for them, and for the whole region.
#3
OldSpook: What's left of the regular army/navy/air force? Is that a potential source of revolt? Iran is a big country in a tough neighborhood. You'd think they'd have to have *some* professional troops and border guards.
#5
In terms of heavy troops, the Army still has most of em. The RG's are still a light infantry force, although much better funded and equipped than the regular army - but they do have a few tanks. Big thing the RG's have is political pull. I'd have to find open spources for the troop strengths before I speak to that.
And all the fanatacism in the world doesn't maintain jet aircraft. Fanatics do not make good A&P mechanics ("Its good enough for Allah" doenst cut it when doing engine inspections).
#6
The only question is how many of their own will the Mullahs kill before they themselves end up with their heads on pikes?
... Mark my words: if the Iranian people themselves do not revolt soon, the blood price paid will be incredible for them, and for the whole region.
Well said, OldSpook. As always, it's the little guys who will bear the brunt of any poor decisions being made at the top.
And all the fanatacism in the world doesn't maintain jet aircraft.
Sort of ironic to think about how Iran used to have one of the finest air forces in the entire Middle East. How many billions of dollars worth of American jet fighters do they have rusting gently in their hangars? I wonder if they even have a single pilot qualified to fly one of them. What a pleasant thumb in the eye for the mullahs whenever they review their sophisticated and utterly flightless air wing.
Aren't Iran's tanks the old Soviet style TUs that need to have their barrels exchanged after a few dozen rounds? This whole scene is redolent of people with slingshots taunting someone with a machine gun.
#7
Give them Nukes and there will be a radioactive Gotterdammerung in the Middle East - the bastard fanatics will destroy their own nation and irradiate the ones around them rather than realize they were on the losing end of history.
good point and quite plausible - if in the event of civil unrest, regular army looks to be joining in against the mullahs, the mullahs might well launch a nuke on a key military base.
Has anyone fully wargamed the USSR coup attempt in 1991?? Did the coup plotters have access to nukes? (of course they were drunken amateurs compared to the mullahs, I think)
#8
I would be very, very surprised if the Iranians didn't stall on the nav computer issue, turning it into yet another quibble in this whole thing. And if the Brits do get them back, they'd better check for sabotage and altered programming straightaway.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/02/2004 16:18 Comments ||
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#9
coup plotters
LH!
President Bush called them "coupe people".
LOL.
The town that would give Abu Musab Zarqawi his notorious moniker is a hard place â treeless and tough, cinder-block apartment houses punctuated by drab mosques. They say you have to be a thug to make it in the streets here, and the young Zarqawi had all the credentials: He ran with a fast crowd, fought easily and covered his skin with tattoos.
That was back in the 1980s, before he turned to religion. Before the call to jihad rang through the Arab world, sweeping away young men who could discern no more-promising prospects. Before U.S. leaders labeled Zarqawi as the mastermind behind some of the bloodiest mayhem in postwar Iraq.
Back then, his name was Ahmed Khalayleh.
In truth, Abu Musab Zarqawi is not a name, but rather a collection of personal details: It means father of Musab, native of Zarqa. To his neighbors and friends, he is still Ahmed, a man they struggle to reconcile with the American description.
They say Zarqawi may be a troublemaker, a terrorist leader more militant than Osama bin Laden. But even his mother, before she died of cancer here a few months ago, told a visitor that her son was not smart enough to be a logistical and ideological linchpin.
One of his neighbors, a bespectacled sales clerk a few years younger than Zarqawi, who is believed to be 38, grinned at the memory of the younger, secular Ahmed. "He was so far away from religion," said the neighbor, who insisted that heâd be in danger if he gave his name.
"He went out with a gang that liked to drink," he said. "We even called him the Green Man because he had so many tattoos. He was drunk once and he had a fight with his cousin. He had a knife in his hand and he cut his cousin. After that he quit drinking, and he started praying."
Zarqawiâs tribe, the Bani Hassan, is one of the largest in Jordan, boasting members of parliament, generals and ministers. But Zarqawiâs own family was poor and pious. His father was a traditional healer and the tribal chief of his hardscrabble neighborhood. The second of five children, Zarqawi was born in an apartment that sits low over a mechanics shop, across the street from a graveyard.
A good student, Zarqawi maintained a B average until, abruptly and inexplicably, he dropped out of high school one semester shy of graduation. He married his cousin, and took a job as a maintenance man for the Zarqa municipality, but soon grew listless and quit.
By the late 1980s, the jihad in Afghanistan against Soviet occupation was in full swing. Young Muslim men from all over the world were making their way to the Afghan battlefields to seek their destiny. Zarqawi joined the wave even though, by most accounts, he still wasnât particularly religious.
On that first trip to Afghanistan, Zarqawi seemed to be looking for himself, associates say. He huddled over the Koran at the edge of battle and by campfires at night; he drifted between fighting and writing about the battles as an aspiring war correspondent for an Islamic newspaper in the Pakistani city of Peshawar.
"He spent all night reading the Koran and praying," said Saleh Ilhami, a Jordanian fighter who met Zarqawi in Afghanistan and later married his sister. "He was feeling how the Islamic nation was suffering. At that time, he could recite the Koran without reading because he was spending so much time studying."
The young men fancied themselves as figures in an epic battle etched in glory against the rugged mountains of Afghanistan. Those years changed them forever, and left much of the Arab world struggling to tamp down the fevered fighters who came trooping home again.
"It was a great thing, a great life, the best thing I ever saw in my life," Ilhami said. "I felt I was born when I went there. That was the real life."
Ilhami had earned a degree in journalism from the University of Jordan; he said he traveled to Afghanistan in 1989 to work as a war correspondent. A year later, he was roaming the mountains near Khowst, snapping photographs, when he stepped on a land mine. His leg was blown off, and he was taken over the Khyber Pass to Peshawar for treatment.
Zarqawi had seen his fellow Jordanian evacuated, and admired his bravery. When Ilhami had healed, Zarqawi introduced himself, and asked him to show him how to write stories. The two became friends.
When Zarqawi heard that Ilhami wanted to get married, he suggested his younger sister. Ilhami accepted, and the young woman was flown to Peshawar, where the two married in 1991. "After that, I respected him a lot and loved him a lot," Ilhami said. "He was paying tribute to me."
By 1992, the scene in Afghanistan was souring. The Soviets were long gone, and the mujahedin were beginning to turn on each other. Zarqawi went home to Jordan, worldly and a little hardened, but not yet radicalized, say those who knew him.
"This was the beginning of the troubles between Zarqawi and the regime here," said Ilhami. "You know, he who spends a lot of time in jihad, it becomes like oxygen for the human being. It becomes very hard to leave it."
Many of the returning warriors had a hard time fitting back into their homelands, he said. Zarqawi struggled with disorientation. At the same time, Jordanian intelligence agents were keeping a close watch on the Afghan veterans.
Zarqawiâs ideas hardened when he fell under the sway of a cleric named Issam Barqawi, commonly known as Abu Mohammed Maqdisi. The Palestinian figurehead of the militant Bayat al Imam network in Jordan, Maqdisi was a white-hot radical, a man described by Islamists here as too extreme for Bin Laden.
Maqdisiâs writings allegedly helped inspire the truck bombing of Saudi Arabiaâs Khobar Towers in 1996 that killed 19 U.S. servicemen.
Maqdisi has spent his life in and out of prison; he remains locked up in Jordan, convicted of trying to overthrow the government to establish an Islamic caliphate.
"Ahmed had the same ideas as Maqdisi," said Mohammed Dweek, a Jordanian lawyer who defended both men in the 1990s. "Even he admitted that he was a copy of Maqdisi. But Maqdisi is dangerous 1,000 times more than Zarqawi. He has this charm, this charisma, and he can convince anybody."
Along with Maqdisi and most of his followers, Zarqawi was arrested in the early 1990s for obtaining explosives. Members of the network were put away as political prisoners in Jordanâs Swaqa prison.
It was there that a soft-spoken Islamic scholar named Youssef Rababa met Zarqawi and Maqdisi. Rababa was the head of a small cell called Ajlun Minds. Jordanian authorities had arrested the members on charges of planning a bombing.
It was the mid-1990s, and in the scrappy universe of the Jordanian prison yard, Islamist organizations functioned as a species of jailhouse gangs. They provided protection, distraction and a sense of spiritual brotherhood. The members shared religious tracts, gathered for Friday prayers and stuck together when fights broke out.
Rababa remembers Zarqawi as a hothead, saddled with a violent temper that sometimes blotted out common sense. Zarqawi earned a reputation for ferocity in the face of authority; he would unabashedly tell prison guards that they were nonbelievers. He inspired respect, if not admiration, and when he felt threatened, heâd fight.
"He was a leader with a very strong personality. The other prisoners, they were afraid of him," Rababa said. "He likes to be a leader, and he likes to have his authority between his hands."
Zarqawi took to preaching after Friday prayers, lecturing the network on the dangers of nonbelievers and the injustice of secular Arab regimes. He gained strength and gradually shed his role as Maqdisiâs eager disciple.
"The last year in prison, there was a big change in their relationship," Rababa said of Maqdisi and Zarqawi.
"It seemed they had a big disagreement. The last month in prison, Maqdisi was alone. Zarqawi took his group."
In 1999, shortly before his release, Jordanian authorities grew worried about Zarqawiâs power over other prisoners and transferred him to a smaller jail.
Even in the realm of armed Islamists, Zarqawi is a hard-line radical, Rababa said. U.S. and Jordanian officials have identified him as a member of Al Qaeda, but his acquaintances here said his relationship with the organization was ambiguous. Zarqawi knew Bin Laden in Afghanistan, but there was a doctrinal split between them, they said.
"Osama bin Laden, heâs in the middle, heâs not so fanatical. Heâs against the Americans and the Jews, the foreigners on the Arabian Peninsula and the Jews in Palestine," Rababa said.
"Zarqawi," he continued, "is against anybody whoâs kafir [a nonbeliever]. He is much more extreme than Bin Laden. His idea was very clear â we have Muslims, and we have kafir."
Zarqawi told Rababa that it was a duty to attack nonbelievers wherever they could be found â Europeans were fair game, and so were fellow Arabs, particularly Shiite Muslims.
Still, looking back now, searching for traces of the terrorist described in news reports from Iraq â and beyond, with anti-terror investigators linking him to plots and attacks from Western Europe to Jordan â Rababa was bemused. He didnât believe Zarqawi had the intellectual ability to pen an oft-quoted letter intercepted by American officials, who claim it was meant for Bin Laden. In it, U.S. officials say, Zarqawi claims responsibility for 25 suicide attacks in Iraq and lays out a blueprint for plunging that country into sectarian chaos.
"I donât believe it," Rababa said. "Even if heâs still alive in Iraq, I donât think heâs running operations. Heâs a simple man. Heâs simple in his capabilities. Heâs smart, but heâs not high-level."
When Jordanâs King Abdullah II took the throne in 1999, he pardoned political prisoners and Zarqawi was set free. He spent a month with his wife and children at home here, but couldnât find work. He grew restless and returned to Pakistan on a six-month visa.
In 2000, Zarqawiâs visa expired, and, according to his brother-in-law Ilhami, the Pakistani government refused to extend it.
Zarqawi found himself adrift and isolated. Detained by Pakistanâs immigration authorities after Friday prayers, he was asked to leave the country, but he didnât have anyplace to go. He had sworn off Jordan, where he felt penalized and harassed.
"He didnât know where to go," Ilhami said. "He didnât know what to do."
Zarqawi moved over the border to Afghanistan, before the U.S.-led war to topple the Taliban regime began.
His alliances there are hazy. According to U.S. and European intelligence agencies, Zarqawi set up a camp in Herat that specialized in the use of chemical and biological weapons. At least one militant has confessed to meeting Zarqawi at an Al Qaeda camp.
But Zarqawiâs relationship with Al Qaeda remained contentious, according to a source who was in Afghanistan at the time.
Al Qaeda suspected he had become a Jordanian agent while he was in prison, and many in the network kept their distance. Tensions grew so pronounced that they even shot him in the leg, the source said.
Like the man himself, Zarqawiâs leg is at the center of a tangle of conflicting reports.
There are various accounts of the injury, which may have been suffered during the 2001 war with the Americans, and may have forced him to flee Afghanistan. Some reports indicate that the leg was so mangled that it was amputated in Iraq.
What seems certain is that Zarqawi fled once again, this time moving overland through Iran, and settling into the mountains of the Kurdish region of northern Iraq. He had compatriots there; Jordanians from his hometown and from prison had set up camp with members of the militant group Ansar al Islam. Zarqawi is believed to have stayed there at least until the U.S. invasion of Iraq began.
Since then, Zarqawi seems to have vanished into a whirl of conflicting reports, and potential propaganda.
Back in Jordan, where Zarqawi has been sentenced to death in absentia, his increasing notoriety is met with equanimity. His first wife, his four children and his tribesmen still live here. At some point, Zarqawi took a second wife; she went to Afghanistan with him and never came back.
The family doesnât speak much to the media.
Some sources say Zarqawi has been in touch with them from Iraq, but his brother-in-law denied that he had heard from the fugitive.
Many people here say the same thing: The Americans were looking for a boogeyman, for somebody to blame.
"I donât think heâs a leader worth this money," said Dweek, the lawyer. "Anyway, if they get Zarqawi, so what? Theyâll have 1,000 more Zarqawis after him."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 8:56:03 AM ||
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#1
At least give us a coffee warning next time Dan.
It was an LA Times article, which means you'd have to register to read most of it, and it also has a lot of new info on Zarqawi available. I tried to edit it as much as possible, but given Zarqawi's role in the insurgency I thought that this might well be useful information to have when it comes to evaluating the man.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 9:03 Comments ||
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#4
LAT register : californiainsider password: insider
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/02/2004 9:28 Comments ||
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#5
Wow, Dan... This is a trip - I'll prolly read this 10x, data mining. Dan, regards venturing into the pit (El Lay Times), better you than me, lol!
Our pal Zarqi, now that we're all so chummy and everything, followed the human drive to find a niche which filled his needs: change, to belong, to be something / somebody, be rewarded. Of course, in the sick and twisted world of ME and Islamic indoctrination, the options are unbelievably (to us) limited. Maqdisi took it to the next level - offering the lure of being a big fish in a little pond. Status and Authority, in jihadi-world currency, for the boy that all of his pre-jihadi acquaintances uniformly describe essentially as a ne'er-do-well nobody. Those low expectations and derogatory attitudes can be a real motivator. He's not working for AlQ - he's got his own agenda and they are/were merely a convenient temporary ally to advance it. Now he's gone Hollyweird and the Western media is his lover. The Zarqawi Channel is on.
I guess he showed them, huh? Showed them all.
The problem of the ME (and other obvious shit-holes) isn't getting the Paleos their own state - they wouldn't have a clue what to do with one - other than copy the other failed ME state models. Bush is dead solid perfect correct: the whole thing needs to be washed away and reformed via democracy. Democracy, though obviously imperfect, is the only system that man has come up with that actually works -- it delivers what's missing in the other "systems", i.e. what people really want, deep down. Choices. Options. Individualism. Opportunity. Freedom.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
The conclusion is, unfortunately, absolutely correct: there will be 1,000 more. And this will remain true until the despots, dictators, mullahs, royalty, imams, and Islam - which all contribute to the totalitarian lock-step hopelessness - are uprooted and replaced -- with options, with freedom. With a chance to be happy and find satisfaction as a family man with "a job as a maintenance man for the Zarqa municipality." Until the power structure of the ME and Islam is wiped out, leveled, destroyed, it will always be a fertile cesspool of hopelessness and jihadi (or whatever) recruiting.
The Firesign Theater has a bit where one HS kid asks his friend what he plans to become. His answer isn't as facile as first blush might suggest -- in fact it's far truer and more common than most will acknowledge:
"I thought I'd find a bunch of guys who dress alike and follow them around."
Sorry, Zarqi, you're fucked. Now die you twisted zipperhead.
#6
But even his mother, before she died of cancer here a few months ago, told a visitor that her son was not smart enough to be a logistical and ideological linchpin.
Heh, this had to be the ultimate insult - Mom calling him a dumbass.
Most Americans have a false idea of the shadowy, worldwide terrorist network led by al-Qaida, according to a former CIA operative who collected the life histories of almost 400 members of the deadly movement. The stereotype that these terrorists are poor, desperate, single young men from Third World countries, vulnerable to brainwashing, is wrong, Dr. Marc Sageman told an international terrorism conference in Washington this week.
Most Arab terrorists he studied were well-educated, married men from middle- or upper-class families, in their mid-20s and psychologically stable, said Sageman, a psychiatrist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. Many of them knew several languages and traveled widely.
But when they settled in foreign countries, they became lonely, homesick and embittered, he said. They felt justifibly humiliated by the weakness and utter backwardness of their homelands. They formed tight cliques with fellow Arabs and drifted into mosques more for companionship than for religion. Radical preachers convinced them it was their duty to drive Americans from Muslim holy lands, killing as many as possible.
Sageman served as a CIA case officer in Afghanistan from 1987 to 1989, running agents against the Soviet occupation. In a book, "Understanding Terror Networks," published in May, he traced the roots of the movement to a centuries-old Islamic tradition dedicated to purifying Muslim lands of "infidels" and restoring the past glories of Islam.
He described al-Qaida and its global allies as "a violent Islamist social movement held together by an idea: the use of violence against foreign and non-Muslim governments or populations to establish an Islamist state in the core Arab region." For its members, terrorism is "an answer to Islamic decadence - a feeling that Islam has lost its way," he said.
Sageman drew his data from transcripts of legal proceedings against terrorists, unclassified government documents, police wiretaps, scholarly articles and news accounts. He acknowledged that his sources are incomplete and sometimes of questionable reliability. Because he dealt only with public records, he said, his sample may be biased toward the better-known, more prominent members of the movement. Nevertheless, his work appears to be the most thorough profile of the members of the terrorist network available outside the walls of government secrecy.
Sageman focused on the sprawling collection of terrorist cells inspired by Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaida organization. His findings about the social and psychological makeup of the terrorist network "sound perfectly plausible to me," said Jessica Stern, a former expert on terrorism at the National Security Council whoâs now at Harvardâs Kennedy School of Government in Cambridge, Mass. "Itâs consistent with my findings." In her interviews with terrorists, Stern found a common thread to be a feeling of humiliation for the decline of their once-great Islamic culture. "If youâre humiliated, you want to blame somebody and try to fix it," she said.
Following are some of Sagemanâs conclusions:
Until recently, the central staff or core leadership of the terrorist movement, headed by Saudi Arabia native bin Laden, consisted of about 38 members, two-thirds of them from Egypt, with a smattering of Saudis, Kuwaitis, Jordanians and other Middle Easterners. The Egyptians joined al-Qaida when it formed in the 1980s. They were mostly Islamic militants involved in the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat.
Since September 2001, about two-thirds of the original leadership has been killed or captured, and replaced by "younger, more aggressive new leaders," Sageman said. "The network has become more decentralized and more disconnected from the central staff. This has resulted in more frequent and more reckless operations."
The majority of the network is made up of Middle Eastern Arabs from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Yemen and Kuwait, as well as North Africans from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. Thereâs also a contingent of second-generation Muslim immigrants in France, Spain and other Western European countries.
A smaller group of Southeast Asians is centered in Indonesia and Malaysia.
Because of its decentralization, the network "provides no hard targets for military operations," Sageman said. "The war on this type of terror must be fought on many fronts."
He suggested police surveillance of local cells, interception of their communications and tracking terroristsâ friends and relatives, since they are also likely to be members or supporters.
The leadership and the bulk of the members came from comfortable upper- and middle-class homes, challenging the argument that poverty breeds terrorism. Some were doctors, lawyers, engineers or other professionals. Only a small percentage of Sagemanâs sample were poorly educated. Fewer than one-fifth lacked a high school education. Seventy percent had at least some college; several had masterâs or doctoral degrees. Except for the Southeast Asians, 90 percent went to secular schools. Contrary to the view that terrorists are single, childless, immature young men, lacking any attachment to society, nearly three-quarters of the sample were married. Most had children.
Some people think terrorists are criminals or antisocial psychopaths. But Sageman found that most had normal childhoods without any trouble with the law. Those who later turned to petty crime did it to raise money for their actions, not for personal gain. "The data suggest that these were good kids who liked to go to school and were often overprotected by their parents," he said. "They are not essentially evil, but they definitely act evil."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 12:36:31 AM ||
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#2
spoiled moderately rich religious fanatic losers from a culture that structurally can't make it in the modern world so let's kill jews crusaders infidels who are holding us back along with our insufficiently pious brothers--does the psychological term PROJECTION ring a mullah's scrotum
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
07/02/2004 1:07 Comments ||
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#3
BINGO. This goes in my bookmarks. This article finally gives a quantitative account of Muslim terrorist's socio-economic class that jibes with every individual profile I have ever read in the media. What mystifies me is that after writing such profiles, the media then insists that these terrorists are the ppor and downtrodden of the umma. How does the media hold such directly countervailing views without their heads exploding?
My take on the sources of Muslim terrorsits are:
1. Religious fanatics indoctrinated since youth that Islam must conquer the world, i.e. Saudi Arabia.
2. Muslims who were raised that Islam and Muslim society is the pinnacle of accomplishment and justice. But they realize, via contact with the West, that Muslim society is backward and weak. In other words, they are spoiled and arrogant boys who believe they have a Allah-given right to be top dog. They become radicalized and believe that by destroying better societies, the Umma can be the top dog.
Posted by: ed ||
07/02/2004 1:30 Comments ||
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In one of my first conversations with a Saudi back in '92 he told me, and I'll have to paraphrase it, that the oil was Allah's gift to the Arabs - an appropriate repayment for all those years of being Bedu wandering the wasteland. Immediately reminded me of a wacko friend who always thought it was his right to win the lottery. Same attitude. Same gossamer grasp of reality.
#5
I don't know anyone who bought the stereotype about these idjits being poor and desperate, other than the LLLs who want to pin everything on whitey's exploitation of the third world.
#7
But they realize, via contact with the West, that Muslim society is backward and weak. In other words, they are spoiled and arrogant boys who believe they have a Allah-given right to be top dog. They become radicalized..
#9
I saw somewhere a quote to the effect that the factor that best correlates with tendency for a muslim to become a terrorist, more than class, etc was how authoritarian the country of origin was. The more authoritarian, the more likely to become a terrorist. Not sure how they quantified that - anyone else seen that, or have links?
Al Qaida and other Islamic insurgency groups in Iraq have succeeded in attracting sufficient funding to maintain attacks on the U.S.-led coalition. A report by the Washington Institute asserted that Al Qaida and aligned groups have established cooperation to ensure funding to like-minded insurgents who operate in Iraq. The report said the groups help each other with logistics and the flow of money for operations.
"Money has not been a constraint on the activities of Al Qaida, Palestinian terrorist groups, or the jihadists and Baâathists fighting coalition forces in Iraq," the report, authored by counter-terrorism expert Matthew Levitt, said. "This will continue to be the case until more serious action is taken toward restricting the financing of terrorism. Acting against terrorist financing is one of the best ways to advance the war on terror, the Roadmap to Israeli-Palestinian peace, and the stabilization of Iraq."
The report said the principal terrorist threat today stems from what he termed the web of shadowy relationships between loosely affiliated groups.
But, but ... John Kerry said all we need is better law enforcement.
The sponsors of such groups, whether countries or other organizations, do not preside over a network with an organizational or command structure. But he said the funding of many of these groups might be traced to a network of Saudi-sponsored charities based in Herndon, Va.
They read Rantburg too.
Al Qaida operations commander Abu Musab Al Zarqawi was cited as a prime example of the roving international Islamic insurgent. Al Zarqawi has links to a range of groups for which he performs services. They include Hizbullah, Usbat Al Ansar and Palestinian insurgents. The report said Al Zarqawi received more than $35,000 in 2001 for providing expertise and components for suicide strikes, including a ways to infiltrate suicide bombers into Israel and provide training on explosives, poisons, and remote-controlled devices.
"Militant Islamist organizations from Al Qaida to Hamas interact and support one another in an international matrix of logistical, financial, and sometimes operational terrorist activity," the report, based on Levittâs testimony to U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs on Oct. 22, said. "Unfortunately, two years into the war on terror, these and other groups, along with a variety of Middle Eastern state sponsors, still receive inconsistent attention despite a sharp rise in their activity. Inattention to any one part of the web of militant Islamist terrorism undermines the effectiveness of measures taken against other parts of that web."
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/02/2004 12:28:30 AM ||
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Could it be possible that you are staring right into the most spectacular financial opportunity of the century? Operation: Iraqi Freedom will undoubtedly be a war marked in history for loss and tragedy, American victory, and the rise of a nation with a new democratic government. But could it also be a war historically remembered for the financial opportunity it created for the sharp investors who keenly recognized an ephemeral chance at the right time?
The War on Iraq ended with a nation placed on the footstool of many new operations. An old dictator was removed; a new government was instilled, and the old currency, each note stamped with the face of the now powerless Saddam Hussein, was suddenly valueless and burned in the streets by American soldiers. In its place entered a new currency, beautifully created with the input of the people and history of Iraq. The United States funded this new currency, artistically crafted by the De La Rue, the worldâs premier currency printers. Unveiled during a press conference in the capitol city of Bagdad, the new Iraqi currency was introduced. A historic university, erected in the thirteenth century, is etched into the one thousand dinar bills. A serene waterfall graces the front of the periwinkle five thousand dinar notes. And a humble, hardworking farmer holds up a sheaf of wheat on the most substantial bill of all: the twenty five thousand dinar note.
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The United States and several other nations are in the process of taking every measure possible to rebuild Iraq. The country is gaining stability, and could soon be in its way to becoming an independent and prosperous nation. What would this mean for the value of the Iraqi currency? Certainly it would mean a rise in its value. It could go back to what it was worth before the war, or more. And that would mean an unbelievable return for anyone who invested in it today. It could mean thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars for someone who had a million dinars today.
The value of the Iraqi economy has nearly doubled since the capture of Saddan Hussein. This has many investors predicting that the dinar will continue to rise in value as well. Even without help from other nations, with the worldâs second largest oil reserve and the worldâs largest gas reserve, it is abundantly clear that Iraq has the resources available to expand and become an extremely prosperous nation. In fact, economists and investors are speculating that Iraq has the potential to become among the wealthiest nations in the world.
Today you can take advantage of this potential and be part of those that benefit from Iraqâs success the most. Purchasing the Iraqi dinar at its most vulnerable point in history could mean a fortune in the near future. This means nothing short of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for todayâs forward-thinking investors.
Learn more about this unique opportunity and how to purchase the dinar at www.Iraqi-Dinar.com with American Trading Company.
The war on terrorism is increasingly calling on the skills of computer technicians, hackers and even Internet "vigilantes" to fight the battle. As terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda turn to the Internet to broadcasts their messages, recruit members, and raise money, law enforcement officers are honing their own technical skills to trace offending websites and computer users.
James Kirkhope is the research director for the Washington-based Terrorism Research Center, which examines links between terrorism and technology. He said that once a suspected terrorist website appears, law enforcement officers around the world begin the hunt to find it and, if warranted, close it down. "One of the main steps law enforcement agencies do is to identify [the] web server of a particular website, and thatâs usually the source that law enforcement will go to to pull the plug on terrorist websites," Kirkhope said.
But the task is not so easy. While each server and personal computer on the Internet has a unique address, locating an offending website is not as simple as -- for example -- tracing a telephone call.
But, but ... John Kerry says all we need is better law enforcement.
One of the main obstacles is the nature of the Internet itself -- relatively open and unregulated, yet highly interconnected. Kirkhope said one of the tricks terrorist groups use is to link a website from server to server -- to "bounce" it, as the practice is known. This, in effect, conceals the identity of the original server and the siteâs author.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 12:28:30 AM ||
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From Slate, an article by Lee Smith
.... "Beheadings are not mentioned in the Koran at all," Imam Muhammad Adam El-Sheikh, co-founder and chief cleric at the Dar Al Hijrah mosque in Falls Church, Va., told USA Today. Yvonne Haddad, a professor at the Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University agreed, telling New York Newsday, "There is absolutely nothing in Islam that justifies cutting off a personâs head." If reporters bothered to open up a copy of the Quran, say, N.J. Dawoodâs Penguin Classics translation, theyâd find at least two relevant passages:
God revealed His will to the angels, saying: "I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." (Sura 8, Verse 12)
"When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads." (Sura 47, Verse 4)
... it is simply wrong to say that the Quran does not mention beheadings or that there is absolutely nothing in Islam that justifies decapitation. Islamic history is giddy with heads separated from their bodies, a tradition detailed in news outlets that are generally considered right-wing and on conservative Web sites, but apparently whitewashed in the mainstream press. .... We really wish the Muslims who are lending their expertise to our infidel press would tell the truth. Otherwise, this conversation between cultures isnât going to work. We are surely destined for a very violent clash of civilizations if one dialogue partner will lie about something that is written down for anyone â even American journalists if they make the effort â to read. ...
A group of American journalists has just returned from a trip to Syria and Lebanon, where they met with Syriaâs president, Bashar Assad, and the one-time spiritual guide of Hezbollah, Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah. What are these Americans reporting from their travels? That Arabs like Americans but not U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. Is this true? Well, it is surely in the interests of an Arab dictator and a Muslim cleric who wrote fatwas permitting suicide bombings against Israeli civilians to say it is true. If U.S. journalists are going to serve as dragomans for various sponsors and theorists of terrorism to the American public, at least they could push their interview subjects a little harder. ....
One common complaint about Americans, including our press, is that we know very little about the Middle East. That may be true, but as complex as the subject is, knowledge of the Middle East is hardly gnostic wisdom available only to a few initiates. Thanks largely to the efforts of the oft-despised Orientalists, much of the history and literature of those cultures is accessible to anyone who is interested (a service, as this Muslim scholar explains, rendered to both the West and Islam). Much of it is even on the Internet. Certainly the press, when reporting on the Middle East and Islam, should question its sources at least as rigorously as it interrogates athletes suspected of steroid use, be more inclined to doubt than belief, and report fact rather than serve agendas. That is to say, whether or not beheading actually appears in the Quran is a matter of verifiable fact and not subject to the opinion of imams and professors who are apparently interested in advancing a message. If Americans have to start sorting through their news in the way that consumers of Arab media must, wondering which piece of information serves whose interests, we are inviting what would be a very ugly result of our current engagements in the Middle East: the Al-Jazeera-fication of the U.S. press.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/02/2004 12:00:50 AM ||
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"If Americans have to start sorting through their news in the way that consumers of Arab media must, wondering which piece of information serves whose interests, we are inviting what would be a very ugly result of our current engagements in the Middle East: the Al-Jazeera-fication of the U.S. press."
It's nice to hear someone in the semi-MSM (Slate's a weird blend of idiocy and brilliance) say it - but the bloggers are so far ahead of this curve it makes him look silly. Yet to the non-blogging populace, this is prolly earth-shattering / frightening. Get it past it folks - it's even worse that he's admitting!
'Tis best to read the sources the True Believers themselves read. There are many and English translations are commonly available - for the recruitment effort, of course. Many even have handy-dandy search engines, but I've discovered that these are as reliable as the Imam and the apologist professor in the story - there is obviously a list of search terms (which grows, I'm sure) which the engine "conveniently" fails to locate, though manual searches show the terms are there in the text. Reporters are lazy, just like everyone else, unless their hearts are in it. And, of course, the editorial / staff cleaning service will get the last shot. Simple rule is find out for yourself. Use their tools and sites. Then, no matter what sort of reporter or agenda machine is cranking out the MSM, you actually know.
#2
IF Americans have to start sorting through their news like some Soviet or Third World or Arab consumer of media? As .com said, it's not a question of if -- and not just on terrorism.
Ironic the reporter should put it that way -- I am one of several people I know who have been using precisely that comparison for a long time.
One difference is that people in the former Soviet republics I spent quite a bit of time in had always been well aware of the garbage they were being fed, and had in their own fashion learned to think for themselves. By contrast it's hard to find Americans -- at least "educated" and "sophisticated" ones -- who have even considered that much of the MSM feeds them a factually-challenged and often grossly distored idea of what's going on in the world.
#16
DF - No sweat, lol! I've always wanted to be allowed once, just once, to hear (in English, of course) a Friday sermon at one of the big-time moskkks with content and delivery unchanged - i.e. as if I, an infidel, wasn't there. Reading the transcripts, after translation in particular, loses so much of the impact - especially the gestures and volume and emphasis. How can we truly "know our enemy" in such a secretive game?
#17
as if I, an infidel, wasn't there...well they knew I was there and gave what appeared to be a really nice--let's get along, blah, blah, blah--sermon. Must have been my cameras.
#19
You know I've been aware of the way in which Muslims in the West often lie about Islam to Westerners for some time now. I used to wonder what was the attraction and why were they so willing to overlook all the evidence of fatal flaws in their belief system. Now, I am more and more convinced that for many Western converts apologists, Islam is attractive for the same reasons that Communism used to be attractive to lefties and the intellectual elites in the 40's & 50's. Like those people back then, they seem well aware of the drawbacks of the system they are espousing but seem more than willing to lie and obscure the facts because for them the end, in this case some silver bullet for all the world's problems, justifies the means. They feel that they know better than anyone else what is best for everyone and they aren't above any tactic to see the eventual triumph of their utopian vision.
These folks are well aware of what they are doing and they can be trusted no further than the old communists could be. They are essentially the same type of people separated only by historical circumstances.
I know its been said plenty of times already, but Islam in the West IS the new and improved communism particularly as Western converts envision it. By adding religion to it, it is even more seductive and dangerous than before and its also practically untouchable due to most peoples squeamishness about criticizing another persons religion. Its practically iron clad. Its definitely a trojan horse in our midst and we have to find the balls to see it for what it really is.
#21
I know its been said plenty of times already, but Islam in the West IS the new and improved communism particularly as Western converts envision it. By adding religion to it, it is even more seductive and dangerous than before and its also practically untouchable due to most peoples squeamishness about criticizing another persons religion. Its practically iron clad. Its definitely a trojan horse in our midst and we have to find the balls to see it for what it really is.
Good writing, peggy. I'd tend to argue that Islam has more in common with Nazism, but communism is good enough.
The West's current fascination with religion is making it far too easy to blur the lines that separate church and state. This same overemphasis upon religiosity has come back to haunt us in our inability to strip away the veneer of Islam's proclaimed faith and expose its political agenda.
This needs to be done very soon or else there will be little hope of adequately identifying terrorism's true agenda of global cultural genocide. It is the genocide factor which makes comparison with the Nazis resonate more for me. Other than that, much of the elitism, endemic corruption and need for blind faith in Islam closely parallels communism.
You are certainly right about the parallel with Nazism. The parallels between both communism and fascism and Islam are stunning when you really think about it. There is a uniform, a uniform method of address, a whole universal culture intended to replace all other culture with one uber-culture etc.
But I think I may have mis-spoke when I said that Islam is the new communism. In fact, it is rather the mother and father of all utopian pipe dreams which has invaded the West. Its the original and because it comes iron clad in religion, it is by far the greater challenge for us than any other ism we have ever dealt with before.
The fact that most people are scared to confront anothers religion is only one aspect that Isalm's religious deimension poses for us. The most dangerous thing is how seductive its combination of religion and utopian scheme can be. You have Westerners, who are fully aware of the abuses of other ism, converting to it because they fall prey to the argument that the problem with past utopian schemes was their lack of a religious foundation. These people become convinced that the religious dimension foolproofs the Islamic system from the outcomes of other ism's. Can you imagine the frame of mind of the utopian type of personality who stumbles upon what seems to be a divinely inspired utopian plan? Its pretty damn scary.
Its scary because, unlike "godless" amoral communism, Islam is far better at attracting people and far better at keeping the kind of well-intentioned person who would have been repelled by the other isms. While there are certainly those who are deliberately schemeing to make Islam supreme no matter the means, there are many more who really do fall for the argument that there is a clean division between the "real" Islam which is a wholly benign utopian vision for human life and the false Islam which has nothing to do with Islam even though it looks exactly like the horrific outcome of all past utopian schemes. These folks truly believe that a truly Islamic system cannot result in the deaths of millions and the oprression of everyone else who is either to stubborn, or stupid or rebellious to know what is best for them when such a result is the inevitable outcome of any such scheme as evidenced by the Islam throught out history as well as Stalinist Russia and Hitler's Germany. These folks are forced to gloss over the factual connections as much as the deliberate Islamist liars.
We are going to have to find some way to contain these people, the true believers in our midst as well as the schemers and do so without betraying our treasured values.
See what I mean when I say its the greatest challenge the West has EVER faced?
#23
Isn't it apparent by now that muslims have not been telling us the truth about what is and is not in the Koran? There are a number of websites and scholars that can cite specific versus and hadiths so you can see just what is condoned by islam. www.jihadwatch.org, www.islamreview.com and a number of others.
Posted by: jawa ||
07/02/2004 14:23 Comments ||
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#24
Jawa,
Thanks for the links. The truth is the answer to our problems. We will win in the end if we are devoted to dicerning it and boldly speaking it.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/ - Ex Muslims mostly denounce Islam
http://www.truthbeknown.com/islamquotes.htm - some useful quotes
http://www.secularislam.org/ Ibn Warraq's site criticising Islam from an agnostic point of view
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/ my favorite Canadian Lesbian Muslim Irshad Manji's site
http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/home.htm- a site with some very humorous criticism of Islam (Including a proposed South Park episode where Kenny converts to Islam and becomes a suicide bomber to take out a sausage truck)
#27
Part of the problem is that since much of the media has no interest in actually seeing whether the story is true or not, they simply accept what they're told - and so we end up with a Qu'ran in the West that is apparently different from the one they actually read. So they can lie about what's there, and we'll just accept it until we actually check for ourselves. But most people are too lazy to do that. So it would appear that it's not entirely our fault that we "don't understand Islam;" they've helped make it that way!
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/02/2004 16:27 Comments ||
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Yemen is willing to send peacekeeping soldiers to Iraq if the deployment had U.N. backing and was under the control of the world body, Foreign Ministry officials said Friday.
That'd be interesting. Maybe they could pot some of their kinsmen...
The officials told The Associated Press that Yemen was discussing plans to send forces to Iraq. Yemenâs move follows that of Jordanâs, whose ruler, King Abdullah II, said a day earlier that his country might become the first Arab state to send troops to Iraq. Abdullah told the British Broadcasting Corp. "Newsnight" program, that "I presume that if the Iraqis ask us for help directly it would be very difficult for us to say no." Yemen also is considering sending forces to the African nation of Sudan to operate in a similar peacekeeping capacity and under U.N. authority, the officials said. The officials did not elaborate on why the government would send troops to Sudan, but they apparently were referring to the humanitarian crisis in Sudanâs western state of Darfur. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan â who is in Sudan on a three-week tour of the Middle East, Africa, Asia and Europe â has raised the possibility of sending international troops to Darfur if Sudanâs government cannot safeguard the people of the region. Human rights groups accuse the Sudanese government of backing militias of Arab herders, known as the Janjaweed, in a campaign to forcibly remove African farming communities from the vast western region where they have coexisted for centuries. EXCELLENT! First Jordan signs up, now Yemen. Dominoes are falling.
Posted by: PlanetDan ||
07/02/2004 10:15:03 AM ||
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Jordan, yes, Yemen...err, thanks but no thanks for now...we'll take a rain check...Yemen is too 2 faced on a regular basis and might have AQ sympathizers in its military ranks.
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 22:24 Comments ||
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I can't see Iraq accepting troops from any of their neighbors. I imagine they'd view it as humiliating to have a Jordanian telling an Iraqi what to do in Iraq.
Artillery shells found by Polish troops in Iraq definitely contained the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin, the Polish army said on Friday.
The threat of weapons of mass destruction possessed by Saddam Husseinâs now toppled regime was the main justification used by Washington to go to war against Iraq last year, hack, hack, gag, cough, sputter
but U.S.-led forces have only found small amounts of banned weapons. whew, I can breathe again
If the U.S.-led forces don't find them they don't count?
Poland said its soldiers found 17 Grad rockets and two mortar shells in late June and said U.S. experts had carried out tests on the weapons. "Tests conducted showed that there was cyclosarin in the rocket heads," General Marek Dukaczewski, the head of army intelligence, told a news conference. . . . Polish Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski said the discovery of the rockets showed Saddam had failed to account for banned munitions held by Iraq. "Our predictions and reports that Saddam Hussein did not come clean with a large sum of weapons, artillery shells and of weapons of mass destruction were proven true," he said. . . . After inconclusive searches by international inspectors, President Bush accused then Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein of failing to give up chemical and biological weapons and invaded Iraq last year to depose him. "The intelligence we received suggested that these missiles had probably been hidden from United Nations inspectors," Dukaczewski said.
#2
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors". Funny how most journalists either don't know or can't quite bring themselves to accurately describe the situation. Iraq, not the UN, was obliged to document status or disposal of all WMD, under mandatory Chap. 6 resolutions pertinently including one amounting to a cease-fire. OK, let's try again, Reuters editors:
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors, and a failure by Iraq to comply with mandatory UN resolutions by accounting for its banned weapons and fully cooperating with the inspections,...."
#3
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors". Funny how most journalists either don't know or can't quite bring themselves to accurately describe the situation. Iraq, not the UN, was obliged to document status or disposal of all WMD, under mandatory Chap. 6 resolutions pertinently including one amounting to a cease-fire. OK, let's try again, Reuters editors:
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors, and a failure by Iraq to comply with mandatory UN resolutions by accounting for its banned weapons and fully cooperating with the inspections,...."
#4
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors". Funny how most journalists either don't know or can't quite bring themselves to accurately describe the situation. Iraq, not the UN, was obliged to document status or disposal of all WMD, under mandatory Chap. 6 resolutions pertinently including one amounting to a cease-fire. OK, let's try again, Reuters editors:
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors, and a failure by Iraq to comply with mandatory UN resolutions by accounting for its banned weapons and fully cooperating with the inspections,...."
#5
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors". Funny how most journalists either don't know or can't quite bring themselves to accurately describe the situation. Iraq, not the UN, was obliged to document status or disposal of all WMD, under mandatory Chap. 6 resolutions pertinently including one amounting to a cease-fire. OK, let's try again, Reuters editors:
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors, and a failure by Iraq to comply with mandatory UN resolutions by accounting for its banned weapons and fully cooperating with the inspections,...."
#6
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors". Funny how most journalists either don't know or can't quite bring themselves to accurately describe the situation. Iraq, not the UN, was obliged to document status or disposal of all WMD, under mandatory Chap. 6 resolutions pertinently including one amounting to a cease-fire. OK, let's try again, Reuters editors:
"After inconclusive searches by international inspectors, and a failure by Iraq to comply with mandatory UN resolutions by accounting for its banned weapons and fully cooperating with the inspections,...."
by Ann Scott Tyson, Christian Science Monitor EFL. Thereâs a new sheriff in town . . .
MOSUL, IRAQ â Hundreds of Iraqi troops and police armed with AK-47s swarmed through a troubled district of Mosul at dawn Thursday, launching the first major military operation conceived and led by Iraqâs new security forces. More than 600 Iraqi National Guard (ING) troops and city police, backed by an outer cordon of 150 US troops, swept the Al Antezar neighborhood in a house-to-house dragnet, confiscating weapons and detaining several terrorist suspects. . . .
A large man with a thick moustache and prone to dramatic gestures, Colonel Mubarak seems to relish being in command of a truly Iraqi-led mission. "We were waiting for this day," he says, as truckloads of his troops fan down dirt roads. "Coalition forces were honest in handing over power." Yet while Mubarak says his troops are ready "psychologically," he frets over sending them into combat with meager gear. "Weâre still waiting," he says, "for everything from helmets and body armor to night-vision goggles and binoculars. . . .
As the police and forces from two ING battalions sped out through their three separate sectors of the neighborhood, for example, it was soon apparent that each unit was going a different direction. Colonel Flowers, drawing arrows on the map, offered a brief lesson in synchronizing movement - for the next time.
Another debate arose when the police and ING disagreed on whether to confiscate all the weapons found, or to allow each household to keep one for self defense. "If we think they are tricky, we will take the gun, if they seem good, they can keep it," suggested General Barhawai, in a blue cap and shirt.
And while the Iraqi forces took pains to treat neighborhood residents respectfully - knocking on doors, allowing the man of the house to assist the search, and being gentle with women and children - they promised draconian measures against lurking enemies. "This neighborhood is infested with terrorists and criminals," says Barhawai. "If they resist, they will be killed." Moreover, he made it clear that in the aftermath of a string of car bombings June 24 that left 29 of his men dead and 70 injured last week, his men were looking for revenge. . . .
During Thursdayâs sweep, police chief Barhawai left little doubt what was motivating his men. "They want to revenge the terrorists," he said. "Some of them are wearing blood-stained clothes to remind them of their fallen brothers," he said.
The Iraqi forces had their chance at around 8 a.m., when a brief firefight broke out when Iraqi National Guard forces approached a run-down home that turned out to be an enemy safehouse. Two men inside fired on the soldiers, who quickly regrouped to storm the location.
"I went inside the house and saw the bad guys, three were hiding behind a door and a desk," says ING Capt. Alaa Faisel, a Kurdish peshmerga fighter trained by US Special Forces. "I fired a few shots, and they put their hands up," says Captain Alaa, who looks uncannily like his American counterparts and wears a Special Forces tab on his shoulder.
In all, the four-hour sweep netted two Iranians suspected of belonging to the terrorist group Ansar al Islam, one Kurdish fighter, and three Iraqis. Along with the seizing of weapons such as heavy machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades, the operation spurred much self-congratulation among the Iraqi forces. "Weâre a team. Weâre in the same boat!" said Colonel Mohammed, beaming even as the ING and police disputed what to do with a weapons-laden car.
Iraqi residents, meanwhile, seemed generally not to mind the sweep, and some even welcomed the appearance of Iraqi forces. "I feel that my pride and my country is back to me now," says Rafa Sultan, a day laborer with 10 children, as he watches the Iraqi soldiers from his front gate. . . .
Posted by: Mike ||
07/02/2004 5:17:18 PM ||
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Good.... but they sound like a Kurdish batallion. Wonder how the training/retraining/re-retraining is going with the sunni shia contingents.
#3
blockquote>Kick some fucking assCrikey, you misspelled "kill."
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/02/2004 18:33 Comments ||
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#4
They want to revenge the terrorists,"
Word. Shoot em up. After they go down, give em the rifle butt just to be sure.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
07/02/2004 18:35 Comments ||
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#5
Barb - I think that the end result would be the same
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/02/2004 19:10 Comments ||
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#6
Good.... but they sound like a Kurdish batallion
Exactly what I was thinking...maybe the Sunni/Shiite battallion is still a work in process...better slow and sure...I'd rather see the AQ sympathizers/wobbly turncoats, typically associated with the Sunni/Shiite clans, be outed first...
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 20:00 Comments ||
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Looks like the relief effort is off to a great start.
Sudanese government officials emptied a camp of thousands of refugees hours before UN Secretary General Kofi Annan was to arrive here Thursday, preventing him from meeting some of the hardest-hit victims of the humanitarian crisis in the province of Darfur. Well, Kofi, it looks like youâve just been pissed on.
"There may have been 3,000 to 4,000 people here as of 5 p.m. yesterday," UN spokesman Fred Eckhard said as he gazed upon the empty camp at Mashtel. "Now, as you can see, no one is here. I canât imagine they spontaneously moved." Shocked! Shocked!! Stern reprimand in 5...4...3...
The forced removal came a day after Sudanese officials promised Secretary of State Colin Powell that humanitarian aid workers would have unrestricted access to Darfur and agreed to other U.S. demands to avoid possible UN sanctions. Oh. You mean now???
Sudanese officials acknowledged they had moved the refugees, but said it was for their own good. "We didnât move them because of the secretary generalâs visit," said Anwar Ibrahim, the state minister for Darfur. "It is because we were trying our best to help them." We canât do enough for them. Everybody knows that.
As many as 30,000 people have died and 1 million more have been driven from their homes by a scorched-earth campaign carried out by pro-government Arab militias. The militias, called the Janjaweed, were recruited to wipe out a rebel insurrection that began 16 months ago, but they have unleashed their fury on civilians who belong to the same tribes as the rebels. Hey, them rebels got guns and shit. We might get hurt.
On Wednesday, Powell warned the government to rein in the militias and to create a safe environment so that refugees can return to their homes. The United States is circulating a draft resolution at the United Nations calling for an arms embargo and travel restrictions on Janjaweed leaders, and possibly Sudanese officials, if the government does not fulfill its promises to end the crisis. Yes, yes. Working very hard on this. Very hard indeed. Promise.
On Thursday, Annan, along with UN and Sudanese officials, arrived in the province to get a firsthand look at the plight of the displaced. At the Zam Zam refugee camp, Annan talked with tribal elders. Senior Sudanese officials listened to every word. ...and took down every name. Donât worry. Kofi will protect you.
Ahmed Noor Mohammed, one of the elders, was asked if women were being abused in the camp. He rattled off a long sentence in Arabic. "Some women face some difficulties. Masked men, even soldiers ..." Annanâs translator began. Before he could finish the sentence, Sudanese government minders and officials cut him off, saying he had translated it wrong. And you let it slide, right, Kofi?
"They are afraid, but they donât have any problems," said Ibrahim Hamid, the minister of humanitarian affairs, who was seated next to UN leader. The minister of humanitarian affairs. Bet thatâs a tough, heavy lifting job in the Sudan.
After Annanâs entourage left, Mohammed said women were scared to leave the camp because of the Janjaweed. Wonder if Mohammedâs still breathing?
#3
The minister of humanitarian affairs. Bet thatâs a tough, heavy lifting job in the Sudan.
Everybody knows it takes more muscles to frown with concern than it does to grin with delight as you're stuffing wads of humanitarian aid into your mattress...
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/02/2004 18:22 Comments ||
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#5
Even the Nazis cleaned up Thereisenstadt for the Red Cross visit late in the war. Sudanese don't even bother to mask their intentions...not that the political left will voice disaproval anyway...
ELF --- snip
In Basrah, people were much more welcoming and optimistic regarding the sovereignty handover. In Baghdad, however, people seem dubious especially since American patrols continue to roam the streets. Yesterday morning there were clashes in Adhamiyah between Americans and insurgents, though some say it was an armed gang.
In another incident later on the same day, some people armed with RPGâs and AK-47âs (apparently looters) surrounded the Adhamiya bank which was guarded by an IP and FPS force. The looters shouted to the police that they were here to attack the Americans so it was better for them to leave the area because they did not intend to harm them, nice trick. The IP responded by shooting at the looters, killing two of them and arresting six others. The disturbing bit was that the police dragged the dead looters and violently beat the others.
Other than this incident I havenât heard of any other attempts to loot government property. In fact the performance of the IP until now is encouraging, a number of gangs were surrounded and arrested at Al-Battawiyeen by an Iraqi SWAT force, and people claim that the police used satellite images to locate the gangs, such rumours do have a benefit though.
Another widespread and preposterous rumour is that Ayad Allawi has been showing up at IP stations and executing criminals himself, and I have heard this one from a very large number of people.
Baghdad looked ânormalâ today even though the 30th was announced a holiday. Traffic was the same as everyday and no curfew took place contrary to what many predicted, except in Najaf where a truck full of explosives was intercepted by IP and three purported Qaeda members were arrested, one of them a Libyan who had just entered Iraq from Syria and the other two were Iraqis. This certainly was "missed" my MSM
Overall, I can say that Baghdadis are cautiously optimistic about the new developments, they have postponed their judgement on the government until they sense some real changes on the ground.
Security remains the primary concern, and if the present measures continue I can say that it would improve drastically. I really hope we would see less and less American troops on the streets in the next few days.
#1
The IP responded by shooting at the looters, killing two of them and arresting six others. The disturbing bit was that the police dragged the dead looters and violently beat the others. Disturbing, but understandable. The IP has been a consistent target of the jihadis, and they have taken heavy casualties. Heck, I'm surprised they didn't beat the dead also...wouldn't have blamed 'em a bit.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
07/02/2004 16:40 Comments ||
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#2
ive seen repeated reports that since the handover the IP have gotten much tougher on ordinary street crime. Our media focus on the insurgency - we forget how much of the security discontent of Iraqis is actually with the street crime situation.
#3
"The disturbing bit was that the police dragged the dead looters and violently beat the others."
Give them a few months of this and the "Muja" (who are mostly professional criminals freed from prisons during the fall of Iraq) will be reminiscing about the "good old days" when Americans patrolled and they didnt get shot or get the hell beaten out of them.
I have seen non-US open reports (and emails from friends over there: contractors, government and military) from OUTSIDE Baghdad that the police are really stepping up and taking charge - they are finally realizing that the sooner THEY take charge and clean things up, the sooner WE LEAVE. Furthermore, "the people" are apparently coming to that conclusion as well.
Our strategy? Same as it was before Bremer screwed it up last year:
They get to be the "cop on the block", we get to be "the cavalry coming over the hill", until they get enough "horses" to field their own "cavalry".
Get the Iraqis to police the streets, Get our guys in bases out in the countryside. We only enter to "raid" or when the locals need a bailout.
Accomplishes 3 things:
1) makes Iraqis responsible for their own thugs - forces them to lead, which will eventually result in some good leaders on their side.
2) makes attacks on US forces very expensive since we are not in urban areas unless we are on the offensive (and armed for bear): defensively we get better fields of fire, and its where we operate best and they operate worst.
3) requires less manpower and results in less US fatalaities (while driving up the Iraq and foreigner fatalities).
The "non-military" side effect is that there is less "bad" interaction with locals, and less chances for "friction" from local mullahs.
This is a chance for the press to redeem themselves.
Lets see if they will report this, straight up, or if they keep harping the "Bush lost the peace" Democratic Pary line and only reporting the incidents of violence (and ignoring any and all news to the contrary).
#4
This is a chance for the press to redeem themselves. Lets see if they will report this, straight up, or if they keep harping the "Bush lost the peace" Democratic Pary line and only reporting the incidents of violence (and ignoring any and all news to the contrary).
OS, you're an incureable optimist. heh heh...just kiddin'. The MSM is in bed with the DNC for this election for better or worse. Until then all bets are off - noone should look to them for anything equating with news where Bush is concerned. After the Rather interview with Allawi, I've sworn off MSM news (save for Fox and certain print) for good. I've got better things to do - like chase navel lint.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
07/02/2004 17:52 Comments ||
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#5
Good post, OS. I always appreciate your point of view.
Maybe they finally got the memo reminding them that the Western media and the LLL will portray them as backward savages if they cut off fellow moslems' heads - but as "freedom fighters" if they stick to murdering Americans or other Westerners (which I would suspect they considered their Korean victim, since he wasn't moslem).
Guess the Lebanese Marine presents a real dilemma for them. On the one hand, he's a moslem from Lebanon; on the other hand, he's in our Marines. Bet the Al-Q higher-ups are twisting themselves into pretzels trying to figure out whether murdering him helps or hurts their cause in the eyes of the Western media, where it counts the most. (The morality of it, of course, will never enter their minds - another thing they and the Western media have in common.)
I hope for his sake they decide his country and religion outweigh his uniform. But is ain't lookin' good. Hopefully the Marines will find him before he's dead.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/02/2004 12:32 Comments ||
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#2
He will pose a bigger problems for them if he doesn't grovel. The South Korean guy followed their script to a T. They didn't much care for the result of their video of the Italian.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 12:38 Comments ||
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Tribesmen in the South Waziristan region of Pakistan have handed over two tribal elders wanted by authorities. Dawar Khan and Eda Khan were among seven locals suspected of sheltering al-Qaeda militants. The handover took place in the town of Wana, at a meeting between government officials and men belonging to the Ahmedzai Wazir tribe. The two men had survived a fierce offensive last month by Pakistani troops hunting for suspected militants.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 12:09:18 PM ||
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Abu Musab Zarqawi has set up a network so well organized in Iraq it deployed a Yemeni suicide bomber in a car to blow up a police station just 48 hours after he entered the country, says L. Paul Bremer, the former top U.S. administrator in Baghdad.
"He had arrived in the country only two days before, and as analyst of terrorism for some time now, this was quite revealing to me," said Mr. Bremer, describing an incident in December when the Yemeni was shot and captured after his bomb failed to explode.
"It showed a very high degree of organization that you could have a guy come across the border and within two days marry him up with a rather elaborate plot. Targets. A thousand-pound bomb built into his car. He has the car. He knows the target. Itâs quite impressive."
Mr. Bremer said Zarqawiâs terrorists were mostly trained in al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan. They arrive in Iraq not as undisciplined jihadists, but as professionally trained killers.
Zarqawi himself has moved in and out of Fallujah, Baghdad and other Iraqi cities.
His network is "in the low hundreds in Iraq, if that many," Mr. Bremer said. Zarqawi cells are so hard to penetrate that he will likely be active and trying to kill people in Iraq well after the coalition has defeated other militant groups, the former administrator said.
"They are non-Iraqis," Mr. Bremer said of the Zarqawi group. "They tend to be from Yemen. Or Sudan. Some Saudis. We havenât captured a lot of them. We captured some. So we have some insight into the organization. Itâs a professional terrorists organization. Itâs well done. They have cellular structure, so information doesnât flow very widely. Makes it difficult to penetrate. Even if you penetrate, you donât get much information beyond the cell youâve penetrated. Itâs a very professional operation. Very dangerous. They are clearly responsible for almost all, if not all, the suicide attacks."
Mr. Bremer said there are three main pillars of the enemy facing American troops and allies:
â¢The Zarqawi Tawhid organization, whose main goal is to kill Iraqis who are allies of the American-led coalition.
â¢Pro-Saddam Hussein insurgents. These are former regime
members, such as intelligence agents and former members of the Gestapo-like Fedayeen, who work in independent cells with no overall leader. Their main targets are coalition troops.
â¢Foreign fighters. These are loosely knit bands of jihadists who mostly enter through Syria, organize cells in safe houses and attack coalition troops.
"These are people who either answered the call for jihad at the beginning of the war itself, in the kinetic phase of the war, or have come in across rat lines from Syria mostly since then, either answering the call of jihad or just because they want to come and fight the United States," Mr. Bremer said.
He said the U.S. was not particularly successful in gaining good intelligence on the overall insurgent groups as attacks escalated. But he downplayed any problems the Abu Ghraib prisoner scandal may present. Some analysts have said it has made interrogators reluctant to press detainees for information.
Instead, Mr. Bremer said, the answer lies in a rebuilt Iraqi intelligence service acquiring the intelligence needed to finally destroy the Iraqi militants.
"I think in the end better intelligence will come from the Iraqisâ forces and intelligence service, not better application of interrogation techniques from our people," he said.
"Weâve been working with the new Iraqi intelligence service now for three or four months and it will be very important for it to begin to produce actionable intelligence. Itâs always going to be easier for Iraqis to figure whatâs going on in a given community than even the best Americans."
Mr. Bremer, who left Iraq on Monday after turning over power to a new Iraqi interim government, believes self-rule will go a long way toward defeating the old Saddam supporters.
"I think that things will go better now because the occupation is over," he said. "They should become more effective against at least the insurgency part. I donât say theyâre suddenly going to break the code on Zarqawi. Thatâs hard, a really hard target. But on the insurgency, they ought to be with better intelligence and better military forces more effective.
"An Iraqi government has the capacity to by being strong, [to] also offer to those sort of supporters on the fringes of the insurgency some kind of role in the political future of the country, by broadening the political base in way that would be difficult for non-Iraqis to do.
"So you could imagine that in the next few months and indeed I expect in the next few months â I donât think it will happen overnight â youâll begin to see better effectiveness against the insurgency."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 9:14:29 AM ||
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#1
I would like to send this shoutout to all my buddies in Jihad:
The Guns of Brixton Lyrics
When they kick at your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
When the law break in
How you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement
Or waiting on death row
You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh, the guns of Brixton
The money feels good
And your life you like it well
But surely your time will come
As in heaven, as in hell
You see, he feels like Ivan
Born under the Brixton sun
His game is called survivin'
At the end of the harder they come
You know it means no mercy
They caught him with a gun
No need for the Black Maria
Goodbye to the Brixton sun
You can crush us
You can bruise us
Yes, even shoot us
But oh-the guns of Brixton
When they kick at your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
You can crush us
You can bruise us
Yes, even shoot us
But oh-the guns of Brixton
Shot down on the pavement
Waiting in death row
His game is called survivin'
As in heaven as in hell
You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 12:47 Comments ||
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More than a year of intensive efforts by the American military and the Central Intelligence Agency to destroy the insurgency in Iraq has failed to reduce the number of ``hard-core Saddamistsââ seeking to destroy the interim Iraqi government, a former senior official of the just-dissolved American-led occupation authority said in an interview on Thursday. The senior official, speaking with a small group of reporters near the White House, said he was repeatedly ``disappointed we havenât had better insight into the command and control of the insurgents.ââ
The official was touching on one of the continuing mysteries of the insurgency: how has a relatively small rebel force organized, and how can it be broken? In recent days, other officials have offered varying assessments on this question. Last Friday, Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage, speaking at a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said: ``Someoneâs giving general orders, and other people are following them. I think thatâs clear.ââ But Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said a few minutes later that ``whether itâs a central nervous system or some other form of coordinationââ was an open question and that ``the intelligence community, as far as I know, will not tell you, will not give you an answer, because they canât give me an answer.ââ
On Thursday, the former senior occupation official estimated that the number of insurgents had stayed constant at 4,000 to 5,000, suggesting that as soon as they are killed or captured, they have been replaced. ``I have seen no evidence that the number has changed,ââ he said, adding that ``the intelligence on this stuff is not as good as it should be.ââ Moreover, said the former senior official, who has spent more than a year in Iraq and had access to the highest-level intelligence, American officials had found it ``almost impossible to penetrateââ the network organized by the Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is believed responsible for many of the suicide bombings that have killed both American troops and Iraqis.
The official also said that over the last year, both Iran and Syria had stepped up their activity in Iraq, and that the Iranians might have been financing Moktada al-Sadr, the young radical cleric whom the Bush administration first promised to capture or kill, then decided had to be spared to avoid urban warfare in Najaf, his stronghold. The Iranians have ``become more active over time, and not helpful,ââ the official said, though he said intelligence indicated that far more foreign fighters were coming over the border from Syria than from Iran. On Thursday in Washington, Mr. Bremer ticked off a series of economic reforms that he enacted before leaving Baghdad: balanced budgets - a contrast, he acknowledged with a grin, to the deficits run by the United States - a new currency and openness to foreign investment.
Yet the insurgency, Mr. Bremer said, ``will be very hard to root out,ââ and ``stopping corruption is going to take time.ââ But he concluded: ``Can they get security enough under control to hold that credible elections will be held in January? I believe they can.ââ The former senior occupation official, speaking in Washington on condition of anonymity at the request of the White House, described a situation in which efforts to cut off the influx of foreign terrorists entering Iraq had been only partly successful. He said that the Syrian border ``was the most important one where foreigners were coming in, and terrorists,ââ but that the number could not be reliably quantified. The captured fighters were ``mostly Syrian - there were Sudanese, Yemenis, some Saudis and then the odd Egyptian and Moroccan.ââ Many of the foreign fighters had contacts both with former Hussein forces, he said, and with Mr. Zarqawiâs network, but it was unclear who was coordinating their entry, if anyone. He appeared less concerned about the appeal of the Zarqawi fighters, who he said were reviled in much of Iraq. The Hussein insurgents are a more significant threat, he said, in part because they are supported by an outer ring of ``less hard-coreââ supporters, including teenagers and others paid to shoot rocket-propelled grenades at passing American troops.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 9:00:11 AM ||
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another unnamed senior official. Does the NY Times have ANY named sources for their spin stories? From the paper that had Blair on its payroll
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/02/2004 9:42 Comments ||
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#2
Amen, Frank.
Border control. Iraq and America have the same problem. I'm thinking moats, friendship fences, mebbe double-walls 50-100 yds apart full of pit vipers and camel spiders, remote-controlled machine guns with IR / CCD cameras, blimps, UAV's, and Zero Tolerance, myself.
#3
It's awe inspiring. They have letters from our enemies saying they're being constricted and they're losing and yet they continue to babble this rubbish. Impressive display stupidity in the face of facts.
#4
The former senior occupation official, speaking in Washington on condition of anonymity at the request of the White House,
It would appear that in this instance it's the White House that has requested the senior officer withold his name.
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 11:28 Comments ||
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#5
Border control. Iraq and America have the same problem. I'm thinking moats,
What about swine manure laid thickly around the borders of Iraq, except where there are border check points?
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 11:31 Comments ||
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#6
It seems to me iffin' a former spook/state fella really believed that our efforts in Iraq had no effect, they would come out to say it. There are benefits to doing so:
1) If indeed it turns out to be so, the official can say with a good deal of confidence he/she was merely speaking in the nation's best interests by pointing out an element in this war overlooked.
2) The publication you are speaking to can't be accused of pushing an agenda, so the next time you speak, you can have as much credibility as before.
Let's face it folks. There are no amount of US/coalition/allied casualties/deaths/murders so great, the NY Times will not publish defeatist 'news' stories such as this.
And there is a great supply of ex-CIA and ex-State folks ( as well as current CIA and State ) who have been affected by the Bush administration push to actually protect the USA, rather than continue overlooking terrorist attacks; all of these brave folks unwilling to have their name published through fear that the USA will actually be a safer place and their 'knowledge' be challenged in a real world situtation.
#7
"the number of insurgents had stayed constant at 4,000 to 5,000, suggesting that as soon as they are killed or captured, they have been replaced."
Hmmm. Sure, you can "replace" people at the level of "day laborer," the guy who gets $150 to play lookout for an ambush. But by definition -- at least for Iraqis and not foreigners -- the "hard core" was what they started with in April '03, and it can't have expanded, nor can it really be replaced, since then.
The Wash Post used to (maybe still doesn, haven't looked at the dead-tree version in years) publish a "murder map" which dramatically illustrated how concentrated the city's famous homicides were in a few areas of town. A similar up-to-date map showing "insurgent" attacks, and especially one discriminating between suicide bombings and more conventional types of attacks, throughout Iraq would be most interesting. We all know it would show perhaps 90% of attacks confined to a few parts of Baghdad and of course the Triangle.
Sounds easy for me to say, but I don't see the mystery at breaking the domestic insurgency -- in fact we're doing most of the right things already. It just takes time. I think there might have been a much harsher "stick" element to the carrot-and-stick in the Triangle, plus especially (even today) extensive restrictions on transportation (these guys and arms and bombs aren't walking anywhere, they're being driven). But that's based on the limited view one has, depending on poor media coverage and limited direct info from forces in the field.
On the positive side, a friend who's in the flow of info said there was an immediate and noticeable uptick in cooperation by Iraqis following the hand-over on Monday. If Allawi continues to show a savvy touch, I'm tempted to be quite optimistic -- of course using reasonable and historically literate benchmarks, not NYT silliness.
Saddam Hussein believed that Iraq would never be invaded because the US would get bogged down in "interminable debate at the UN", his interrogators believe. The ousted dictator thought that the uncertainty about his weapons arsenal would prevent his neighbours from invading, while the US would be stuck in negotiations about launching an attack an intelligence official claimed.
Although the interrogations of Saddam have yielded little about whether he recently possessed weapons of mass destruction, they have provided a fascinating insight into aspects of his life and leadership. During interrogation sessions, Saddam suggested that he ordered the 1990 invasion of Kuwait to keep his army busy. He appeared to fear giving officers too much time without being occupied by combat. An intelligence official also told the newspaper that interrogators believe Saddam was shocked when the coalition attacked and then invaded Iraq in March last year. During one session he appeared to boast that he had infiltrated the Iraqi National Congress, the exile organisation which pressed for the invasion of Iraq.
While there were no physical methods of coercion used, psychological tactics were employed. Sometimes, the interrogator would try to catch Saddam out by questioning him for hours, and then leaving him alone for a period of time before returning to ask just one more question. In one session Saddam told how his son Uday had beaten to death someone who had annoyed him by playing music too loudly. Saddam said he had Uday imprisoned in solitary confinement as punishment. It has been widely reported that Uday bludgeoned to death his fatherâs valet and food taster in 1988, apparently because he had introduced Saddam to the woman who became his mistress.
Despite the insights, Saddam gave little away during interrogation which would incriminate him in his trial for crimes against humanity, including genocide. "We got very little, I would say almost nothing," said an official who served with the occupation authority. Saddam was initially in the hands of the CIA but when it became clear he would not co-operate with them, the FBI took a greater role in questioning him, the New York Times reported. For much of his detention Saddamâs guards were reservists from Puerto Rico, who were ordered to speak only Spanish in his presence.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 8:47:25 AM ||
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Saddam Hussein believed that Iraq would never be invaded because the US would get bogged down in "interminable debate at the UN"...
In my view, that alone (challenging the deadly dictator protection front of the UN and trying to restore the integrity of the organization) made the invasion worthwhile.
#4
During one session he appeared to boast that he had infiltrated the Iraqi National Congress, the exile organisation which pressed for the invasion of Iraq.
What does this mean?
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 11:37 Comments ||
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#6
jules 187 - huh? I was only pointing out that the actual and intended roles of the UN were not the same thing - that the UN has been hijacked, as you indicated, by the manipulators. Lofty goals and verbiage vs reality. Nothing to see here! Move along!
#8
In my view, that alone (challenging the deadly dictator protection front of the UN and trying to restore the integrity of the organization) made the invasion worthwhile
You are a dreamer. The US will never "reform" the UN, at least not under GWB or John Kerry. Both men are Kumbaya guys. Nobless oblige. GWB has used the same old, same old approach of other Presidents[notably the Democrat Presidents]to dealing with the UN ie. throw $ at it in the hopes of being "liked". Ronald Reagan has been the only President in recent memory to get tough with the UN in terms of holding back dues, and that's the first step to implementing reform-tightening the purse strings. George Bush has in fact increased funding to this corrupt organization of losers. Quite frankly, I'm not sure that the UN is reformable, and I'm not even convinced there was ever any "integrity" to the UN.
Examples of throwing good money after bad by GWB:
1. "Despite the refusal of the United Nations Security Council to enforce its own resolutions calling for disarmament of Iraq, the administration is standing by the budget request it made in January to pay for a $90 million increase in the annual U.S. dues to the United Nations.
"The budget proposal submitted to Congress by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) requests an appropriation of $322 million for UN dues [sic] in Fiscal Year â04. Thatâs up from the $232 million in â03, according to the OMB. (The U.S. is assessed dues amounting to 22% of the overall UN budget each year.)" Source: John Gizzi, Human Events, 4/7/03, p. 6
2. "The General Assembly ⦠is more like the United Tribes. It is the third worldâs official welfare distribution center. (Just for the record, the Bush Administration has begun to send tens of millions a year to UNESCO, which that liberal, pinko cad, Clinton, had refused to do.)" Source: Dr. Gary Northâs Reality Check, 3/14/03
>"Around the United Nations there was joy and a bit of surprise last week when Congress allowed to stand a $67 million allocation to rejoin UNESCO, the U.N. agency from which Washington withdrew in 1984.
"The money was included in an $8.2 billion State Department appropriations bill....
" âI am happy that the funds for UNESCO have been released, and I hope in time the U.S. will join UNESCO, sooner rather than later,â U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said last week. ...
"President Reagan withdrew the United States from the Paris-based U.N. Educational, Scientific Cultural Organization, criticizing it as a corrupt agency with an anti-Western bias and an ill-defined mandate.
"Britain, under Margaret Thatcher, withdrew at roughly the same time and returned shortly after Tony Blair was elected prime minister." Source: Washington Times, 5/14/01, p. A13, The U.N.Report, by Betsy Pisik in New York
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 12:22 Comments ||
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#9
nnnnnnnnnobody expects an American Invasion! Our chief weapons are fear, surprise, and an almost fanatical devotion to Freedom! Now... how do you plead? Eh-heh-heh-heh-heh!
#10
Rex-I have no argument with you that the US pocket is getting robbed in broad daylight by the UN. I still think shaking up our allies a bit by demonstrating that we mean what we say was worthwhile.
As far as the rest of what you say, then what's to stop us from starting from scratch and creating a new international organization that has shared values and integrity and keeps its word? The other options would seem to be:
1.)Continue with the same charade at the UN or 2.) Remove ourselves from bodies of international interaction.
#11
a. If we stay with the UN, then I'd definitely use purse strings [and most importantly get Japan on board with us] to get the existing UN to meet specific goals every year. Japan and the US contribute almost 50% of the UN's budget-Japan actually contributes more than the US. Poor Japan-it is not even one of the Security Council members even though it is the biggest donor to the UN. The 2 countries could form a powerful "whip coalition" to get the UN thugs and dictators and corrupt bureaucrats and NGO's to start seeing things our way.
b. Or withdrawing from the UN totally is also a good option. Then we could give US aid to coalitions of US friendly nations like the former Soviet Republic ones who helped us in Iraq.
Our foreign aid figures and the recipient nations might change each year depending on what tangible things these nations did or continued to do for our interests, be it security or lifting trade barriers or military assistence or building good schools or good hospitals for their own people to hate the US less for being rich and successful..whatever...I don't think any nation should automatically expect $ from Uncle Sam for doing zip in our immediate or long term interests.
For example, I would significantly reduce aid $ to Mexico until such time as Mexico demonstrated it was stopping the tide of illegal immigration into our country. Mexico does a fine job of preventing immigration into their country from the south, so they could do the same re:preventing Mexicans from coming into our country. Also dismantling their racist policies to Mexicans with Indian heritage would earn them a lot of extra American bucks in aid, because it's mainly Indian-Mexicans who flee Mexico, because they have no future there because they are so badly ostracized in Mexico.
You get my point? In this situation, the US [or the US and Japan for that matter]is the one[ones] who doles out the money and sets the annual goals for recipient nations. There is none of this nonsensical consensus building required per being in a 191 league of losers.
I don't see the advantage of forming a parallel int'l organization quite frankly. Then we get bogged down in the same bureaucracy, inefficiency, and feeding useless NGO'sthat we are in now.
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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#12
This is old territory, rex, jules. So don't be concerned if you don't get a lot of detailed feedback! It's been beaten bloody here, in fact, lol! But new ideas are definitely fodder for thought - so your comments are appreciated.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
07/02/2004 15:17 Comments ||
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#15
Saddam Hussein believed that Iraq would never be invaded because the US would get bogged down in "interminable debate at the UN", his interrogators believe.
Another ringing endorsement of the UN from an unempeachable source.
EFL from Jerusalem Post
"There is no reason or need to fire artillery into urban areas," said Brig.-Gen. Dani Kassif, the IDFâs chief artillery officer. "It doesnât matter how bad the situation deteriorates, as long as it is not a total war, there is not need to use cannons." Kassif spoke to The Jerusalem Post about the role of the artillery in the conflict with the Palestinians. Following the lethal Kassam rocket attack on Sderot this week, a number of readers and other voices called for the IDF to reply in kind with artillery or mortar barrages. "People are always asking the question why has the IDF decided not to use artillery. I think there is no reason to decide otherwise," Kassif said. "I know if we fired artillery we wouldnât hit just the mortar [firing at Israel], but also hit other people in the area."
Kassif sardonically bemoaned the loss of the Lebanon front four years ago since it was the last place the corps could show off its firepower. Artillery is still being used there during periodic exchanges of fire with Hizbullah, but on a much smaller scale than before. "In the Lebanon period we knew how to cope with the Katyusha rockets. It wasnât 100 percent, but we developed methods of striking them and getting warnings," Kassif said. "But with the Kassam rockets, even if I locate them and can hit them, I donât want to reach a situation where I use this kind of weaponry. Itâs not worth it and donât forget that [a Kassam] is really nothing but a pipe," he said. He said that the main problem was not locating where the Kassamâs were launched, but developing ways of striking them quickly. That, he claimed, was where the IDF has made great leaps forward in the past few years. There is nothing available in the world that could shoot down Kassam rockets, Kassif said. This is mainly because they are too primitive and do not reach the altitude in which sophisticated defense systems developed to shoot down incoming missiles operated. The focus is now to close the loop between detection and offensive action, like tank fire and attack helicopters to hit the Kassams on the ground before they can be launched.
A senior officer briefing military reporters in the Gaza Strip Wednesday said that it took about 15 minutes for a Kassam team to set up a rocket with a timer. On the heights west of Sderot are surveillance radar systems like the TPQ, which tracks incoming mortar and Kassam rockets, as well as the "Nagmapoop," a modified APC that lifts a thermal camera high into the sky that gazes non-stop into the Gaza Strip to hunt for Kassam rocket crews and other guerrillas.
Kassif is aware of the need to justify the artillery corps in an age when many believe warfare is changing and the classic battles involving heavy artillery barrages may be a thing of the past. The army has retrained its artillery units for fighting low intensity warfare in the territories. Now a typical unit will have snipers and machine gunners and be trained in infantry warfare, something unheard of in the past. "This has not been simple," Kassif said in an interview at the Tzeâelim training grounds. "There is a difference between being taught to fire a cannon and then being put into a situation where their entire mission is to use their personal weapon... We have to be able to get off of our cannons and perform as an infantry battalion, and then when called upon return to the cannons. The Americans are finding that this is not so simple. We are already there," he said. "The Americans have understood that to prepare a force for service in Iraq they have to train them in the same things we have been dealing with, like manning roadblocks and policing actions," Kassif said.
The way the IDF artillery corps operates now is for its forces to be deployed in the territories, but be able to be choppered up to the Hermon if needed. Just last week, that was the scenario that took place when tensions rose with Hizbullah. Looking to the future role of the artillery corps in low-intensity conflicts, Kassif said artillery rounds have to be made more accurate and even less deadly. "We have to look for non-lethal artillery shells that can be used in urban areas that causes different kinds of damage but doesnât kill anyone," Kassif said. "Iâll leave that concept up to your imagination."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 3:36:17 AM ||
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A senior officer briefing military reporters in the Gaza Strip Wednesday said that it took about 15 minutes for a Kassam team to set up a rocket with a timer. On the heights west of Sderot are surveillance radar systems like the TPQ, which tracks incoming mortar and Kassam rockets, as well as the "Nagmapoop," a modified APC that lifts a thermal camera high into the sky that gazes non-stop into the Gaza Strip to hunt for Kassam rocket crews and other guerrillas.
This is sort of odd in light of how Israel was a primary developer of UAVs. One would think they'd just have a few hovering at a nice altitude with high resolution thermal imaging to detect launch exhaust plumes and pinpoint some counter battery fire.
American activist Ann Petter, 44, who came to Israel to participate in a pro-Palestinian march, has been held in a detention facility for more than a week after being refused entry to the country, her lawyer said Thursday.
Petter arrived at Ben-Gurion Airport on June 23. Petter refused a police request to return to the United States and has been held at the airport pending a court hearing on her petition to have the order rescinded, the lawyer said. Police had determined that Petter was a threat to Israelâs security and had denied her entry, an Interior Ministry spokeswoman said. Petter is affiliated with the International Solidarity Movement, Berda said. ISM is a pro-Palestinian group whose members often place themselves between Israeli forces and Palestinians to try to stop the IDF from carrying out operations.
Ask the Israelis to forward her to the nearest Taliban controlled area of Pakistan. Weâll take two goats in trade - they donât have to be realy high quality goats, but we want to look like we got something in trade other than money. Itâs not about money unless nobody will accept her extradition. In that case weâll open up our wallet to make it happpen.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 3:42:36 AM ||
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We'll get a better trade for about a dozen of they're women. Then we train them and send the women back to slaughter the Taliban. What greater dishonor in their society than to be killed by your own woman? Poetic justice.
Posted by: Charles ||
07/02/2004 8:03 Comments ||
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#2
Threaten her with a Caterpillar D-9.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/02/2004 8:33 Comments ||
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#3
WTF? She was refused entry and refused to be deported / repatriated to her home country? *snicker* News Flash, you LLL goof, it's their country! It's embarrassing that she's an American. I think I'd settle for one goat, SH. Flea-bitten, mangy, whatever. Wotta 'tard.
#5
I only hope that Israel understands that since we are a large couintry we have a large popualtion of IDIOTS. Send the bitch whereever you want as far as I am concerned.
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/02/2004 9:42 Comments ||
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#7
You should read Lee Kaplans's story in the July 2nd issue of frontpage. He deals exactly with this issue. After that you should go to belmont club and get Wretchard take on all this.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14063
Posted by: matt ||
07/02/2004 10:06 Comments ||
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#8
#4 ISM...that's what I was thinking too! Well, we all must IMMEDIATELY go boycott Flatterpillar right? Man, what a 'tard.
Posted by: BA ||
07/02/2004 10:30 Comments ||
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EFL
An Israeli firm has developed a breakthrough technology that can see through walls, WND has learned. First the Death Ray, now this!
Camero, a small company based in Herzliya, Israel, has developed a radar system that uses ultra-wideband technology to produce three-dimensional pictures of the space behind a wall from a distance of up to 20 meters. The pictures, which reportedly resemble those produced by ultrasound, are relatively high-resolution and are produced in real time.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/02/2004 6:31:48 AM ||
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#1
Didn't they used to advertise this stuff in comic books when I was a kid? Zionist X-Ray Specs.
#3
I thought that the more interesting comment in the article was the last paragraph: In addition, an Israeli security source told WND that Israel recently developed proprietary technology that can discreetly put an electronic field around a building or area that gives users the ability to monitor and control every electronic emission within that field, from electronic can openers to fax machines, computers and cell phones.
Lots of uses for someting like that.
#5
Think portability. Dollars to donuts this is a power-hungry system. When a man-portable option (or, at least, something you can hook onto a trailer hitch and drag around - for peace-time uses) becomes available, then you'll have something.
I wonder... Betcha the Swedes will be all over this and claim that the "people" on the other side will be genetically harmed - 3-headed babies and such...
#6
Actually I've just done some research on ultra wide band and it seems to use very little power... estimates are that it could greatly increase our cell phone bandwidth while using close to 1/1000th of the power. Wild stuff.
Apparently this see through the wall tech isn't a new idea for UWB either and there are probably many other companies with competing products coming out.
It seems that the big hurdles have been the FCC and getting the process into something that could be put into a CMOS chip... both seem to be pretty much done now.
#10
If this was North Korea, I think we could safely assume that this great civilization in human history had just invented the window, but since it's not . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/02/2004 16:09 Comments ||
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#11
just a new technology for solving an already solved problem
#13
My guesstimate on what makes UWB different and why it works this way is that because of the range it operates 3-20 GHz it is capable of penetrating walls and because it operates over a large range simultaneously (high bandwidth) it can create a 3D view since different chuncks of the frequency range will get reflected at different depths. How's that sound? ;)
Btw, I don't see why it would require anymore power than a wireless communications transmission that would go the same difference... and according to what I've read that means this thing would work on about 1/10 of a single watt over 30 or so feet.
The U.S. Army has devised counter-measures against roadside bombs placed by Sunni insurgents which have taken a heavy toll on Humvees and other U.S. equipment. The army has helped develop a new series of platforms to detect and track improvised explosive devices. The new, heavily armored vehicles were also meant to protect U.S. troops. Officials said the army has lost numerous Humvees and other vehicles to IEDs. They said Humvees have been lost on a daily basis during the Shiâite revolt in mid-April. "We continue to lose small numbers of Humvees on a daily basis, partially damaged by IEDs and such, and I think we had today some fuel trailers that were blown up," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy director for coalition operations, said.
The platforms were deemed the Husky, Meerkat, Buffalo and RG-31. All of the armored cars â designed in South Africa and the United States â were deployed by the 82nd Airborne Divisionâs Task Force Pathfinder. The vehicles, primarily designed to detect buried mines, have been searching the roadways for IEDs and other threats to soldiers on convoys and patrols. So far, the equipment has proven effective for a number of reasons, chiefly the detection abilities of the Husky and Meerkat vehicles. "These vehicles are designed to take a blast," Pfc. Lester Rhodes, a combat engineer and operator of the RG-31 armored car, said. "The safety given by these vehicles allows us to focus more energy on finding the rounds." Each vehicles is heavily armored and designed to resist blasts from both mines and IEDs. So far, the vehicles have found six IEDs.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 3:53:23 AM ||
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#3
Nice to see the Army actually listening to its ranks instead of the Congress: Congress a few years ago (pre-9/11) forbid the Army from looking at the SA vehicles, instead trying to drum up business in certain un-named (Democrat) congressman's distrcts for Union autoworkers.
Nice to know this changed and they can get a proven design - the SA's have faced threats for close to 3 decades similar to what we are seeing now. They make top-notch light infantry and semi-urban patrol gear and vehicles.
Now if they can just get Glock in the door instead of the piece of crap Beretta M9...
#4
Honestly Old Spook, I'd rather see them adopt the H&K MP7A1 for PDW's. While it's bigger than a pistol, it does pack more of punch. Failing that, they need to adopt a standard .45. Be it H&K's, Glock or SigSauer or an updated and enhanced M1911 series
#5
I used to carry a 1911 .45 - Kimber Custom. Its now a "case gun" - I have more faith in my Glock, although as a concealed carry piece the Glock does tend to paint a lot more than the 45.
I prefer Glock - its truly a foolproof firearm - and I have several and have *never* had a misfeed. thats over 10,000 rounds of 9mm, S&W 40. (mostly the latter - the 9mm belongs to the Mrs who moved up from her SIG). Took it to war with me and other fun places too. And unlike the 45, it can be fired fairly accurately off-handed without much trouble.
But most of all: Wet, Cold, Hot, Sandy, Muddy - the thing just WORKED.
As for rounds, unless the opponent is wearing body armor, I prefer the 40S&W with a higher speed round (hot load) and a silvertip/hyrdashok type jacketed hollowpoint. And even then, the kinetic energy transfer is more than enough for a knockdown or a spin (letting me get in that next shot group).
Whatever I hit, I want it to rip big chunks. Big slow rounds sometimes do, sometimes do not. My 40S&W (with the loads I like) will do so every time.
Plus I automatically (thanks to too much training) doubletap. And unless its way tight in range, the first one is usually center mass, the second falls iin the neck or lower part of the head at 20-25 yards , upper head at 35 or so yards (muzzle climb and sometimes I still anticipate the second round on the trigger). If its less than 5 I use the rockback and fire from the waist, otherwise supported or else modified weaver.
Why do I not brag about 50 yard pistols like a lot of internet posters? Because I know I'm not likely to hit often enough with a pistol from 50 yards under combat stress - and that 50 yard 10ring shot group is SOF magazine bullcrap in combat. If its 50 yards, then why the hell am I using my pistol? (Thats why God told men to invent the assault rifle)
#6
I have a H&K USP .45 that works quite wonderfully as long as I avoid Winchester ammo. It hates that for some reason. Loaded with Federal Hydroshok or Remington's 230g Golden Saber, it works quite well. When I tried out the Glock, I disliked the way the balance shifted on it as the magazine emptied. Only a maniac or people like my mentor in shooting bother even trying to hit anything at 50 yards with a pistol, I certainly don't. I don't tend to even try and practice at anything 25 meters and then only rarely. 10m is far more likely and what I usually practice. If it's 50+ yards, then one of my 'assault rifles' do just fine and that's one reason I shoot Service Rifle competition.
#2
This floored me when I first heard this last night. That thwarted WMD attack 2 months back woke the Jordanians up. Be very interesting to see how this carries forward. Tipping point, anyone?
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
07/02/2004 12:02 Comments ||
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EFL
Insurgents rigged a launcher inside a minibus to fire rockets at a Baghdad hotel on Friday, but a malfunction caused ordnance inside the bus to explode and set the vehicle ablaze, officials said. Bwawawawa!
Apparently, the attackers used a timing device to launch the rockets and fled the minibus after setting it, a military source told CNN. Bad timing, eh?
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/02/2004 6:43:50 AM ||
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#1
Bad timing, eh?
No, just Paleo's.
Posted by: Charles ||
07/02/2004 7:57 Comments ||
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#2
"Mahmoud, are you sure you have that device programmed correctly? It looks quite complicated."
"Don't be silly, Hassim. This terrorism stuff ain't exactly rocket science, you know."
BOOM!
Posted by: Mike ||
07/02/2004 8:35 Comments ||
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#3
Too bad they didn't stick around to earn their 72 raisins.
Is Pakistan rid of its terrorists? Is General Pervez Musharraf determined to eliminate the remnants of jihad that turned terrorist? Since they have tried to kill him, will the general refuse to spare them if the Congress government in New Delhi forces him to revive the jihad in Kashmir? Is the jihad in Kashmir more important than his own life?
Recent incidents demonstrate that the jihadis are continuing to kill the Shias in Pakistan quite freely. In some cases the police has been found involved in this Shia-killing spree. It has been trying to spare the sectarian killers of Al Qaeda by interpreting murders as family feuds or the doing of the âforeign handâ, India or American, in the latter case an extension of what is happening in Najaf in Iran. After a recent Mughalpura-Lahore massacre of a family of Shias, a senior police officer declared that it was, InshaAllah (sic!), not a sectarian crime. The family was shot to death and one member who was absent on the night of the execution was killed later after the police got him to agree to a cooked-up FIR. He was killed after he was allowed to circulate without police protection. The fact that the walls of the house in which the murders took place were spray-painted with âkafirâ was ignored by some papers while speculating that someone intent on settling a vendetta had written the sectarian message as a red herring. Everyone ignored that fact that a few days earlier someone had blown up a Shia gathering at the Haideri Masjid in Karachi, which was definitely a part of the country-wide campaign against the hapless community. According to a police source quoted by Herald, there were 25,000 jihadis in Karachi who had taken training in Afghanistan. A worrying development was that Punjab was acquitting Lashkar-e-Jhangvi terrorists standing trial there, and Karachi was receiving them back. Lashkarâs dreaded leader Malik Ishaq was expected to be released by the Lahore courts in the near future.
Is Musharraf really getting after the murderers? People are now doubtful. Pakistani journalist Amir Mir writing in the foreword of A to Z of Jehadi Organisations in Pakistan by Amir Rana (Mashal, Lahore) informs us that a five-member âcoalitionâ of the jihadi organisations was launched in 2001 to avenge the invasion of Afghanistan. The coalition was called Brigade 313 (the number of warriors in the battle of Badr in the times of the Prophet PBUH) and comprised Lashkar-e-Tayba, Jaish-e-Muhammad, Harkatul Jihad al-Islami, Harkatul Mujahideen al-Alami and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. The leaders of these organisations were either in confinement or allowed to remain at large. Those in confinement under state surveillance have been allowed to get out and disappear; at least one is out in the open, publishing extremely provocative statements in the Urdu press on a daily basis. At least two out of the five were crucial to the low intensity conflict in Kashmir. Can one say that he has not killed them so far because he wants to use them again in Kashmir? The two militias are offshoots of Al Qaeda and have served Osama bin Laden well in the past. The leaders, Masood Azhar (absconding) and Hafiz Saeed (making public statements) give rise to all kinds of speculations.
Available literature on Al Qaeda reveals close contacts between Lashkar-e-Tayba and Osama bin Laden. The Lashkar was set up by Hafiz Saeed, a lecturer at the Engineering University of Lahore, who was sent to Saudi Arabia for higher studies and later allowed to establish his headquarters near Lahore by the ISI. A follower of the Wahhabi tradition and a rebel from Pakistanâs Ahle Hadith parties, he had his stronghold in Faisalabad from where a top leader and ârecruiter-trainerâ of Al Qaeda, Abu Zubaida, was most dramatically captured and handed over to the United States. Hafiz Saeed was kept in custody for some time by the government but later released. He is a part of the Brigade 313 sworn to kill President Pervez Musharraf, but he is not out in the open issuing statements against him almost on a daily basis. Everyone knows who wants to kill President Musharraf. But why is he allowing the âfanaticâ terrorist elements to roam around freely in Pakistan? Jaish, together with Lashkar-Tayba, was the top âfreedom-fightingâ organisation in Held Kashmir. Its leader Maulana Masood Azhar, a graduate of Karachiâs Banuri Masjid seminary, was on the side of Osama bin Laden in Sudan when the Pakistani troops were representing the UN in Somalia. We know that Osama bin Laden helped Somalian warlord General Eidid kill 24 Pakistani troops in Mogadishu after an ambush. Lahore has always been home to rumours that Pakistani mujahideen were among those who fired and killed the Pakistani troops in Mogadishu in 1993.
The militias that would kill President Musharraf are the militias that have spearheaded the Kashmir jihad. They are all Deobandi-Wahhabi in character and aligned with Al Qaeda. If Pakistan is keeping its Kashmir options open, then these very militias are an important part of the jihadi equation. Pakistan has too many internal crises waiting to be addressed to allow space for a reconsideration of the foreign policy changes effected in the aftermath of 11 September 2001. President Musharraf should grasp the nettle of terrorism in Pakistan and get rid of it even if it means no option on the resumption of jihad in Kashmir. The administration is trying very hard to play down the sectarian violence of the jihadi militias to stave off public resentment. The Shia-killers of Brigade 313 are being secured against the stain of fratricide in Pakistan. The price for the âKashmir optionâ is very high and the people of Pakistan may finally refuse to pay it with their blood.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
07/02/2004 5:46:27 AM ||
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Are jihadis waiting in the wings?
Do sphincters flutter under pressure? Do bears dine on garbage dumps? Do splodeydopes go boom? Is Osama a Muslim? Are there more airplanes on the bottom of the ocean than submarines in the sky? Does Paris do Paris? Does Mucky's bong go gurgle, gurgle, gurgle? (You go bro'.) The world wonders...
In wide-ranging talks last week between General Pervez Musharraf and leaders of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM), the two sides have agreed to counter the influence of Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) in Karachi. Insiders say this means the MQM will be given a âfree handâ, to deal with the MMA threat. Sounds like the gentle sounds of AK fire will continue to soothe Karachites to sleep. If the Jihadis and the MQM really do go all out against each other, it would turn Karachi into another Mogadishu. Whatever happens, given past history, I am sure this will end up backfiring on the Pak establishment somehow.
Sources say it was in the wake of this decision that the Sindh government banned the entry of MMA central leadership into Karachi for a âpeace marchâ, using riot police to ensure that the alliance workers cannot show strength last Sunday. For his part, the recently nominated Sindh chief minister Arbab Ghulam Rahim defended the police action and said the MMA would not be allowed to take law in their own hands. âA peace march is needed in Balochistan or in the NWFP, more than in Karachi,â he was quoted as saying. Sources said there was complete unanimity of views between Musharraf and the MQM despite the partyâs apprehension lately that certain forces within the establishment want to destabilise the relationship. The meeting took place the same day Zafarullah Khan Jamali was asked to resign in a dramatic move. Jamali has since been replaced by the PMLQ president Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain who will remain PM until finance minister Shaukat Aziz gets elected from a safe seat and is elevated to the slot.
Sources say the MQM endorsed the presidentâs decision to replace Jamali. âThe federal politics is not the MQMâs headache until it does not impact it. The party wants to retain its hold in urban Sindh and would go along with anyone who can give it a free hand to do so,â says an observer. The MQM wants the authority to tackle its bete noire, the MMA as well as other religious extremists which they believe are increasing their influence in Karachi. âMMA is playing the role of the political wing of organisations like Al Qaeda and local militants groups. We told the president that they have to be tackled with an iron hand and he agreed with that,â a party leader told TFT. Party leaders conceded that until the meeting with General Musharraf they feared that some elements within the establishment who allegedly conspired the two attacks on President Musharraf and an attack on corps commander Karachi Saleem Hayat, may be behind the attempts to weaken the MQM.
Interestingly, unlike the PPP breakaway faction, the MQM has not publicly asked General Musharraf to retain his position as army chief, though insiders say the party has assured him of his full support on whatever decision he might want to take. Now, with the meeting behind them, the party is sure that there is no likelihood of an operation against them in the near future. The MQM is also happy that General Musharraf has reposed his trust in its governor, Ishrat-ul Ibad and there is no possibility of his replacement in the near future. Still, some observers believe things can change in Pakistan quite suddenly. Ibad has been the target of the opposition in Sindh that has accused him of protecting people responsible for political murders. Interestingly, while agreeing with the MQMâs assessment, General Musharraf has asked the party to placate the opposition in Sindh and dispel the impression that it has been involved in recent incidents of political violence.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
07/02/2004 5:40:01 AM ||
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Wasim Akram acquitted in wine ad case
According to Khabrain a Lahore civil judge let great Pakistani cricketer Wasim Akram off after he apologised for the Indian wine advertisement in which he had mistakenly appeared. A Lahore citizen had gone to court saying that when he saw the ad he was so physically jolted that he deserved to be paid Rs 25,000 as compensation by the cricketer. Wasim Akram apologised after a year of litigation in which he must have spent a lot of money on lawyers. The judge thought that the litigant had not really suffered any loss and therefore did not deserve to be paid Rs 25,000.
Jews and Hindus do sectarian killings!
According to Nawa-e-Waqt, Jamaat Islami leader Qazi Hussain Ahmad said at the Shia institution Jamia Al Muntazar that there was no Shia-Sunni conflict in Pakistan. He said sectarian killings were being done in the country by Hindus and Jews. Thirty-one ulema from all over Pakistan agreed to this and signed a statement. The paper also reported that religious students would arrange protesting camps against the Aga Khan
Lover serves purgative at wedding
Sarerahe wrote in Nawa-e-Waqt that one heart-broken lover served laxative to wedding party that had arrived to take his beloved away. After drinking the sharbat, the wedding party ran for the toilet of which there were not many in Chak Jamalpura. The lover looked on with satisfaction as the guests shoved each other aside to avail of any secluded corner to relieve themselves. The column narrated another incident in which Iskandar Mirza when a deputy commissioner of Peshawar had served the Pushtun followers of Abdul Ghaffar Khan with laxatives in sharbat and made them defecate endlessly.
Magic is okay for marital life
According to a survey in daily Pakistan Islam was opposed to magic and magicians were to be beheaded with a sword according to Imam Shafei while Imam Malik and Imam Abu Hanifa thought them kafir. If Ayat al-Kursi is read in a house then Satan cannot enter it for 30 days and magicians cannot enter it for 30 days. But magic was allowed for enhancing love between couples.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
07/02/2004 5:04:05 AM ||
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#2
This batch is almost mundane, compared to others in the past; no islamic leprechauns, no honor killing gone crazy, no blasphemer beaten to death by the police. Is Pakland becoming a normal country?... No? Hum, thought so.
JERUSALEM - Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said he is ready to move the West Bank security barrier a little closer to Israel, wherever possible, in order to avoid trapping Palestinians in fenced-in enclaves. Sharonâs remarks were reported on the Web site of the Haaretz daily late on Thursday, a day after the Supreme Court told the government it must pay more attention to the possible hardships the barrier can cause to Palestinians.
In response to the court ruling, Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz met with army planners Thursday and ordered them to review most of the barrier, which is to run 680 kilometers (425 miles), security officials said. They said the 25 percent of the barrier already built and judicially unchallenged would not be affected. Later Thursday, Mofaz informed Sharon and Justice Minister Yosef Lapid at a meeting that he had ordered a review. Sharon said that when precise plans are ready, the full Cabinet will vote on them, officials said.
The Haaretz Web site quoted Sharon as saying he is willing to accept changes. âWe need to simplify things and not create ... closed-off Palestinian enclaves since we have not succeeded in creating convenient conditions for moving through the fence,â Sharon said. Sharon said that in areas not considered problematic, construction should begin immediately. âIn areas where we cannot compromise on security, donât make concessions,â Sharon was quoted as saying. âBut in places where we can, we need to do as little damage as possible to the Palestiniansâ way of life, and we can move the fence a little closer to the Green Line.â
Wily response. "Why of course we'll be reasonable, unlike the murderers we're trying to keep out."
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/02/2004 1:17:46 AM ||
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Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said he is ready to move the West Bank security barrier a little closer to Israel, wherever possible, in order to avoid trapping Palestinians in fenced-in enclaves.
There ya go, Aris. If the wall is going to separate Paleos from their land and cause "hardship" that is unacceptable to Israeli courts, then the logical choice is to put everything in question on the outside.
#2
Not sure why you are saying "There ya go". Yes, a wall that'd actually serve as a border instead of as enclavement would be good and I'd have supported it.
But "A little closer" to the Green Line is not nearly good enough when the current plan does such vast detours that it has no connection whatsoever to the Green Line. I don't even know why Sharon keeps on mentioning the Green Line.
#3
er. to indicate what direction hes moving the fence. and of course the court only said that the fence should avoid tangible hardship to Palestinians, not that it should follow the green line as a border. No one seriously thinks the eventual border will follow the green line - the most dovish position is that Israel would compensate the Pals somewhere else, hectare for hectare.
Because since it's quite obvious that it's the orchards that are on the Israeli side of the wall, no one is going to be dense enough to extend the wall outward to include the Paleo "owners" of the orchard to keep them from being cut off.
#5
Aris, Aris, Aris.
The 'Green line' is nothing more than the Armistice line. Armistice lines are NOT borders. Borders need to be negotiated between the parties.
After the 1967 war, the Occupier went from Jordan to Israel. Jordan, and the other Arabs, were unwilling to discuss anything other than a full Israeli withdrawl which Israel was unwilling to do because that would, in effect, reward Arab aggression.
There never was a 'Palestine' nation, only a sub-province of Syria, a province the Turkish empire.
Nowhere in the Arab/Muslim world do Arabs have more rights than in Israel. Actually, come to think of it, Israel is the only nation in that whole that allows freedom and rights to Arabs. I hope Iraq turns into the second nation where Arabs have rights.
Sudan has agreed to act to stop violence and facilitate relief work in its western Darfur region following visits and the threat of limited sanctions by Colin Powell, US secretary of state, and Kofi Annan, UN secretarygeneral. Diplomats said a draft resolution would be put to the Security Council if Khartoum failed to act on its commitments. But they conceded any sanctions would be completely largely a waste of time symbolic.
But symbolic is what the UN is best at, right?
Mr Powell, accompanied by Sudanese thugocrats officials, visited the Abu Shouk camp, where 40,000 black African villagers are sheltering after being driven from their homes by the Arab Janjaweed militia. Some aid workers called it a "show camp" and Mr Powell said he knew conditions were far worse elsewhere, including areas plagued by famine.
Mr Powell said the Sudanese government had agreed to a list of actions to be taken "in the very near future", including a specific commitment to use the police and military "more aggressively" to deal with the militia. "Words alone are not enough," Mr Powell said, calling on the government which has been accused of aiding the militia to "break the back" of Janjaweed. He said Khartoum had also agreed to ease all restrictions on visas for humanitarian workers, make sure relief convoys and monitors had access and to "get immediately involved in the political process".
In an interview with National Public Radio, Mr Powell also disclosed that Bush administration legal advisers had come to the conclusion that, based on the evidence available, the violence directed against Darfur's African tribes by Arab militia "does not meet the tests of the definition of genocide". He rejected comparisons with the genocide against Rwanda's Tutsi minority in 1994. "This is not Rwanda 10 years ago. It is Sudan now," he said.
I just hope he has a good reason for saying this now, as in, the deal for the southern peace isn't done yet.
Washington has come under pressure from human rights groups to declare the wave of killings, rape and expulsions as genocide, a move that would lead to sanctions against the Sudanese government. Sudan refuses to acknowledge the gravity of the humanitarian crisis. After a meeting in Khartoum on Tuesday evening with President Omar Hassan al- Bashir, a US official was quoted as saying Sudanese authorities were still criminals "in a state of denial".
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/02/2004 1:10:00 AM ||
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That's mighty white of the Sudanese Arabs. Since the warfare/pillaging is phase is complete; now starvation, thirst and disease will take the real toll.
Posted by: ed ||
07/02/2004 1:47 Comments ||
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#2
Yep, we'll get right on that. Sure will. Anything else you need?
Are they gone yet?
#7
Actually, Dcreeper, we are usually the only ones making sacrifices to help others, with a few laudable exceptions like Britain, Australia, Poland, Italy...
It isn't for show, as many soldiers in Army hospitals can attest. We have values; it is most of the rest of the world which only wants to APPEAR to have them, without actually ever moving to help.
Jordanâs King Abdullah II said Thursday his country would be willing to send troops to Iraq, potentially becoming the first Arab state to do so. The statement marked a major shift in Jordanâs policy toward Iraq. Abdullah had initially refused to send troops. In an interview Thursday with the British Broadcasting Corp. television "Newsnight" program, Abdullah said he wanted to support Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawiâs interim government, which recently assumed control from the U.S.-led coalition. "I presume that if the Iraqis ask us for help directly, it would be very difficult for us to say no," he said during the interview in London. "Our message to the president or the prime minister is: Tell us what you want. Tell us how we can help, and you have 110 percent support from us."
There was no immediate reaction to Abdullahâs comments, which will likely be welcomed by the U.S. government. It was unclear if the Iraqis would take Abdullah up on his offer. "If we donât stand with them, if they fail, then we all pay the price," Abdullah said. Abdullah said he had not discussed sending troops with the new Iraqi government. "I would feel that we are not the right people," he said. "But at the end of the day, if there is something we can provide, a service to the future of Iraqis, then weâll definitely study that proposal." Abdullah said he was encouraged by improvements in Iraqâs security, but he acknowledged it was still the greatest problem facing the new administration. Jordan is dependent on Iraqi oil. "I feel optimistic we have strong, courageous leaders in Iraq ... but the challenges that face them on security is going to be their major problem, and they are going to need everybodyâs help," he said. Syrian Information Ministry official Ahmad Haj Ali has said that what the interim Iraqi government should do is strive to get the U.S. troops to leave.
Despite the promise of assistance, Abdullah said he perceived Iraq as a "sideshow." "The main problem that feeds on all the instabilities that we see in the Middle East is the Israeli-Palestinian problem," he said. "Until you solve that, then weâll never have the type of stability that the Middle East hopes for."
Reverts to form after brief ray of hope.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 12:25:23 AM ||
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#2
Remember that the Jordanian royals are related to the former Iraqi royals. I'm sure the King of Jordan would like to help, and I'm sure the Iraqis will gently turn down his offer.
#3
This would be the bad idea of the decade. Jordan is not a moderate state, its people are just as indoctrinated with anti-West and Jooo hatred as the Paleos and Egyptians, and Abdullah is merely riding the tiger - he's not in control. He also rides a Harley, okay, that's nice, but it doesn't mean dick. Jordanian troops. Right. Next!
#5
hmmm...and his father rode a Hallaby. The coincidence is eerie!
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/02/2004 9:23 Comments ||
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#6
1. Of course Abdullah thinks the Israel - Pal problem is the main problem - he is next to door to it, and half his population is of Pal descent. This is obvious, not a sign hes a baddy. Note that he seems to be cooperating with attempts to isolate Arafat
2.AFAIK the Jordanian army is primarily of Beduin origin, not Pal, is not Islamist, and is quite loyal to the royal family. Its also the best army in the arab world - the one that least "fight like arabs". In particular in '67 it was the one that, man for man, fought best against the Israelis.
3. There wont be enough of them sent to Iraq to install a new ruler, and they may well be given a task that keeps them away from politics. In particular the US wants the UN there to help run elections, etc and there will need to be guards for the UN - and we sure dont want to divert coalition troops for that task. Jordanians could serve for that.
4. This breaks the ice - Yemen has already offered, and we should get other offers soon.
#9
1. IIUC, the infiltrators are coming via Syria, Iran, and Saudi. Jordan border not the problem.
2. Put them on the Syrian border - maybe. But thats a REAL military problem, more so than standing guard outside a UN building. Im not sure the Jordanians are THAT good, that I want them on the border, and US troops guarding the UN. And thats anbat province - US Marines there swing between aggressive work on the border, and work in Ramadi and Fallujah. Way too sensitive to put Jordanians in (well the Fallujans might prefer Jordanians to Yanks, but im enough of a hardliner on Fallujah that I wouldnt trust anyone other than A. Yanks or B. The best Iraqis available to take care of it)
OTOH one could post Jordanians to routine border work, and switch Iraqis to UN guards. I think its preferred that the Iraqis police their own border, while foreigners are preferred for UN guard duty, obviously a natural for outsiders.
#11
Wow, I agree with all you have said on this thread, LH.
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 12:40 Comments ||
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#12
dot com, im not, but thats where the urgent need for troops comes in. Basically the existing coalition troops are holding on, if overstretched, and the ongoing plan is to stand up more and better Iraqi forces. Same as the plan has been for months. The new UNSC resolution adds a wildcard - the UNHQ in Baghdad - which i know y'all dont like, but is widely considered important to gaining (at least external) legitimacy for the Iraq govt, and to providing technical help on reconstruction and elections (and yeah, before you get all snarky, there ARE UN folks who have lots of experience at doing this sort of thing - in East Timor, Cambodia, etc) But theres no troops for that, locals arent really considered acceptable, and there was real nervousness that Coalition forces would have to be pulled from more urgent task to do this sort of thing. Putting in Jordanians, Yemenis releases the better coalition forces to do more important stuff.
The logic is this - UN protection is at the BOTTOM of the task list, though it MUST be done. So you put the least desirable troops - the third world troops - on that detail. The Jordanians are the best of the worst.
Now if we get enough Yemenis, Pakis, Bangladeshis etc to guard the UN, then by all means release the Jordanians somewhere else, and Id say the Syrian or Iranian borders sound good. But lets NOT put US troops around UNHQ while we have Jordanians available.
#13
LH - Okay! I was (more or less, no more!) kidding you since you mentioned so few other missions. And therein lies the real problem. So few tasks that Arab / Islamic troops could be trusted to perform without making things worse, instead of better. Iraq does not need more of the same, it needs a break with the past more than any other single thing. Our US & UK troops certainly offer an example worthy of emulation. Some Iraqis get it and some don't.
You're thinking things through, and making a good case - with certain assumptions (addressed below), so I won't argue against the uses, assuming the Iraqis decide to let any of them in. Personally, I hope they don't.
The UN is a barely tolerable entity with much the same unacceptable baggage as those Arab / Islamic troops. Legitimacy is a farce. Reality just is and acceptance, or not, is a silly game fit only for the likes of Chirac & Co - and I mean every word of that. Every country in Europe and the Arab world could pretend that Iraq wasn't "legitimate" or didn't exist - and it wouldn't mean dick. Need I point out Israel as an example of a nation which has been thoroughly black-balled for 50 years, far worse than Iraq would be treated, yet flourishes when not being attacked by fuckwits? Just my $0.02.
Raw opinion differences aside, lol!, your comments are well-considered and appreciated!
Points though
1. Israel has never had serious issues of internal legitimacy. I dont think you can compare Allawis political position today to Ben Gurions in '48
2. Israel certainly has cared a lot about external legitimacy - FROM the West. Israel was born with a UN resolution - unilateral independence without that would have been a far bigger mess than the '48 war was - no weapons from Czecho and elsewhere, more open UK support for the Arabs, etc. Afterwards Israel cultivated support of US, France, Germany and (reconciling) the UK. Also put LOTS of effort into getting recognition from Latin Americans and Africans - in the '60s Israel had extensive foreign aid programs in africa, teaching about irrigation, communal farming, etc. A big deal.
And beleive me, the gains in international recognition after Oslo were considered important by many Israelis, and the loss with the second intifadah is also important. Theres some dispute about how much thats effected the Israeli economy - the Intifada came at the same time as the tech downturn which hurt Israel pretty bad. So its not the MOST important thing, but its not unimportant.
Iraq is less economically dependent on international legitimacy than Israel, since it exports a fungible commodity, not the mix of services and high tech goods Israel does. OTOH in just about every other way Iraq is more dependent on legitimacy - its less able (at this point) to protect itself from neighbors, it needs aid on a large scale, it has huge debts, it is more subject to subversion in ways Israel was not, etc.
Again, im inclined against binary thinking. Its not UN based legitimacy is crucial, or its of zero value. It can be of enough value to offset a (limited) risk of subversion by muslims troop assigned to guard it.
#15
havent we had a bunch of posts here lately about Israeli arms deals with China, India, etc?? The fact is that the "black balling" of Israel, outside the muslim world, is more a matter of words than of actions. And even inside the muslim world, to a surprising extent, IIUC. Theres more connections between Israel and Qatar, Morocco, etc than those countries care to admit in public. And of course Jordan has had a strong relationship with Israel for years, more or less under the table, even when Jordan was nominally at war with Israel.
#16
Whoa - slow down! Sheesh - I should never have mentioned Israel! The comparison was only brought up for the purpose of demonstrating that official recognition is overvalued BS - and I stand by my statement. Iraq could happily exist without any UN legitimacy just fine - it might be a decent debate whether it's worth their involvement at all, in fact. Remember that the Iraqis know the UN, and on a more personal level than we do - and are not fans. Threats from neighbors - there is actually only one: Iran. By the time push comes to shove, that threat will cease to exist - wouldn't you agree? None of this is in a vacuum - Iran must and will be dealt with, either by nuke emasculation or regime change. Period. The Iraqis, once the elections are held, will not be inclined, IMHO, toward tolerating interference from Iran, Shi'a or not.
Debts? Lol! What debts? This is where the real fun begins!
Everyone will deal with the new Iraq, imprimatur of UN or no.
#17
It might work... the Jordanian army is probably man for man the second best army in the ME. It used to (still?) be officered by British ex-pat types.
#18
More nonsense. The new Iraq government does not want help from Jordan or any other ME country. They are attempting to mitigate differences between Shia, Sunni and Kurds already. Why invite more problems in an attempt to solve a problem?
Posted by: Capt America ||
07/02/2004 15:52 Comments ||
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Long article but very uplifting if you like reading about soldiers, not lawyers, doing what needs to be done to create order out of chaos...
Only the dogs had time to react. Faces painted, duct tape concealing their names and the American flag patch on their left shoulders, two platoons of the D Company 1-8 Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division, swarmed into a dozen farmhouses in unruly south Baghdad on Wednesday, snatching the men they found and dumping them on a waiting flatbed. The raid in the bomb-infested marshland south of Baghdad lasted over 40 hours. The final yield was 16 insurgents, men who had bombed Iraqis and Americans, men whose backyards contained an arsenal for guerrilla warfare, say officials here...
In their barracks before the raid, Blairâs men eagerly daubed on black and green face paint. On the way out the door to their Humvees they pumped their fists and slapped hands. "It really wigs them [the Iraqis] out when they see that," said Blair, explaining his adoption of new tactics for fighting what his doe-eyed driver, PFC Mark Wittemeyer calls "the ghosts." Adrenaline pumped, because this time it was personal. A month ago, these "ghosts" had set a 225-kilogram roadside bomb in the same sector that crumpled Specialist Charles Odumsâs armored Humvee, ripped off his legs and folded his remaining half over the back of his seat. Blairâs soldiers spent the next day crawling in the dirt dropping pieces of the vehicles and scraps of flesh into plastic bags...
Males between the ages of 15 and 45 were literally taken in their sleep, no names asked, not an ID checked. Three informants independently corroborated the location of the bombers, giving better-than-usual intelligence...The two platoon officersâ questioning yielded leads, the leads to searches, and the searches ultimately to the discovery of a cache of bombs, RPGs, remote-controlled detonators, rifles and thousands of small-arms ammunition. A senior army official once said that his Iraqi advisers have told him, only half-jokingly, that he must ask Saddam Hussein how to fight the insurgents. He would know how get rid of them....
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 12:20:32 AM ||
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#1
Yeah, saddam'sthugs would have murdered the families that lived in that hood.
The Iraqi advisor to the US was worried for our GI's welfare and was giving them subtle advice, which was if the US wants to get rid of insurgents, the US needs to employ very tough measures.
How does Saddam torturing ordinary Iraqis get into this discussion?
Posted by: rex ||
07/02/2004 12:33 Comments ||
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#4
Making a point rex,if we would have killed them all.All you would hear in the news is how evil we are.
At least seven people are dead and 17 have been wounded in the first major US military strike on a suspected terror hideout in Iraq since the occupation ended. This came as eight more people died, including a senior finance ministry official in a series of bomb blasts and attacks around the country. US military officials say an air strike on a suspected hideout of Al-Qaeda operative Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi in Fallujah left between 10 and 15 people dead. Most of those killed were involved in an exchange of fire with US marines.
That's usually what happens when you exchange fire with Marines.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/02/2004 12:20:32 AM ||
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#1
and piss on the graves of the insurgents...and may the 17 cockroaches that survived meet their 72 virgins with their buddies.
Explosions rocked central Baghdad on Friday. There was no immediate word of casualties. The explosions hit Firdous Square, known as the site where the statue of Saddam Hussein was hauled down on April 9th, 2003, when Baghdad fell. A car burned at the site.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/02/2004 12:14:08 AM ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
