By Khairallah M Khairallah
Special to The Daily Star
Friday, July 02, 2004
It is easy to talk about "nipping terrorism in the bud" in the Arab world, but it is far more difficult to act on it without first admitting to the ailments that societies in the region suffer from. Take for example Saudi Arabia, which was hit by a wave of terrorist acts recently.
It is clear, whenever terrorists strike in Saudi Arabia, that there are elements in the society in league with the perpetrators. This means that security operations are not sufficient in themselves to put an end to the attacks. What is required is responding to why the society produces terrorists. Only when such issues are tackled can solutions be found. Short of that, talk of preventing terrorism will remain just that - talk - despite the considerable efforts of the Saudi authorities since May 2003, when a residential compound in Riyadh was bombed, and their most recent success: the killing of Abdel Aziz al-Muqrin and several associates.
The only result of the Saudi regimeâs belated efforts to fight its domestic adversaries was a realization of how deep the problem was, of how pervasive terrorism was in the kingdom, and of how much support terrorists have in a population that offers a haven to Al-Qaeda cells and others.
To stand up to terrorism, it is necessary to recognize the problem and avoid issuing declarations like those that came from some Saudi officials after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. They attempted to deny that 15 of the 19 terrorists were Saudi nationals, declaring that there was a "plot" against the kingdom and that the rush to identify the perpetrators as Saudis was proof of that.
The civilized world assumes each country must bear its responsibilities and not seek to hide behind excuses, whether religious or national, to avoid dealing with the root causes of terrorism. Every Arab wishes Saudi Arabia well; Saudi officials, therefore, should have no doubt as to the good intentions of those observing events in their country. Arabs believe that citizens of the region are in the same boat and that what befalls one country, whether positive or negative, befalls all the others. Therefore, we can only hope that the future Saudi response to the recent attacks in the kingdom will be quite different from the one following the killing of foreign oil workers in Yanbu in May, when the authorities said that "Israel and Zionism were 95 percent guilty" for the deaths.
There is little doubt that Israel does not wish Arab countries well. This, however, is one thing and the problems of individual Arab states are quite another. For among the challenges besetting Saudi Arabia is the need for political reform at all levels, the restoration of womenâs rights, the amendment of school curricula and the spreading of a new culture of tolerance.
The kingdomâs present atmosphere, which touts the rejection of others and the denial of their existence, has impacted on the mindset of many generations of Saudis and made it easy, for example, for those who perpetrated the recent attack at a residential complex in Khobar to kill foreigners without even batting an eyelid - something that has been done to innocent civilians from New York to Casablanca. It is, therefore, highly advisable, before it is too late, for the Saudi authorities to embark on courageous reforms so that part of the public will not continue to believe that the reform effort does not concern it - condemning it to a spectatorâs role in the unfolding battle between the regime and terrorists.
In short the question is: reform or no reform? If the answer is positive, then reform must be real in every sense of the word. This must include measures that delve deep into school curricula, instead of insisting that only a tiny percent need changing. It must also mean changing how women are treated. The fire that raged at a girlsâ school in Mecca last year ago was a good example of the sort of problems women, who make up half the Saudi population, face. Several students were burned in that fire because adherents of the Enjoining Good and Forbidding Evil movement prevented firemen and civil defense workers from reaching the school "so they would not see the girls." No gallows were put up to punish those responsible for the deaths. All the government did was issue an administrative order placing girlsâ schools under the control of a particular ministry.
What Saudi Arabia needs now is a qualitative leap by the authorities in dealing with the kingdomâs woes. Short of that, it seems, things will go from bad to worse, and it is not clear that Muqrinâs death will change this in the long term. The fact that the Khobar attack came on the heels of the Yanbu incident indicated that the terrorists were increasingly targeting oil-related facilities - the economic lifeline of the kingdom. A similar logic seemed to underscore the beheading of an American engineer who was working in Saudi Arabia on behalf of an American defense contractor. Oil, however, is not merely a Saudi or an Arab or Islamic concern, it is one that is tightly linked to the stability of the global economy.
With this in mind, we can expect serious repercussions if it appears that the Saudi regime, which sits on the largest oil reserves in the world, can no longer maintain stability within its own borders.
Khairallah Khairallah is a Lebanese political analyst. He wrote this commentary for THE DAILY STAR
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 5:29:38 PM ||
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There is little doubt that Israel does not wish Arab countries well.
That is what I call a presumptious assumption. I am sure that Israel would wish the Arab countries well. The Israelis just want to be left alone. Only many Arab countries project every problem that they face on Israel and threaten to destroy her.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/01/2004 21:44 Comments ||
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Really great article, Mark. Why didn't Khairallah get the Nobel Prize instead of Iran's Shirin Ebadi?
There is little doubt that Israel does not wish Arab countries well. This, however, is one thing and the problems of individual Arab states are quite another. For among the challenges besetting Saudi Arabia is the need for political reform at all levels, the restoration of womenâs rights, the amendment of school curricula and the spreading of a new culture of tolerance.
This needs to be tattooed across the forehead of every Saudi royal.
It must also mean changing how women are treated. The fire that raged at a girlsâ school in Mecca last year ago was a good example of the sort of problems women, who make up half the Saudi population, face. Several students were burned in that fire because adherents of the Enjoining Good and Forbidding Evil movement prevented firemen and civil defense workers from reaching the school "so they would not see the girls." No gallows were put up to punish those responsible for the deaths. All the government did was issue an administrative order placing girlsâ schools under the control of a particular ministry.
More than any other single issue besides terrorism itself, this example goes to the exact core of what is so very wrong with Saudi Arabia's brand of Islam. Should they fail to reform it, I hope all of them die by the same sword that they cannot bring themselves to disavow.
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia July 1, 2004 â A senior Saudi official denied Thursday that a militant killed in a shootout with police was a cleric believed to be the chief ideologist for al-Qaida in the region. A security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told The Associated Press Wednesday in Riyadh that the man slain during a car chase and shootout with police was Abdullah Mohammed Rashid al-Roshoud, one of Saudi's most wanted terror suspects. Saudi and other Arab TV stations and newspapers also widely reported that al-Roshoud had been killed.
But Prince Sattam bin Abdel-Aziz, the deputy governor of Riyadh, said al-Roshoud had not been killed in Wednesday's clash.
"Wuzn't him, it wuz sum other guy."
He stressed, however, that the militant killed was "a terrorist who was no less dangerous than him (al-Roshoud) who carried out several terrorist acts in the kingdom."
Dangerous terrorists are their chief export
Al-Roshoud, a former high school professor of Islamic studies, had called for a holy war against the Saudi royal family and Western interests in the Persian Gulf.
A real story would be to find a saudi cleric who didn't
Abdel-Aziz, speaking after burial prayers for a policeman killed in the fighting, refused to reveal the name of the militant killed Wednesday or say if he was on a list of 26 most wanted militants in Saudi. He added that a statement would be issued later.
"I can say no more, at this time."
Six security personnel and three bystanders also were wounded in the shootout in Riyadh's al-Quds neighborhood, an Interior Ministry statement said Wednesday.
Wrong guy, nothing to see, move along
Posted by: Steve ||
07/01/2004 2:20:21 PM ||
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Abdel-Aziz, speaking after burial prayers for a policeman killed in the fighting, refused to reveal the name of the militant killed Wednesday or say if he was on a list of 26 most wanted militants in Saudi. He added that a statement would be issued later.
Translation: they will first look at the death mask, compare it to photos in a book of mug shots, pick out the one that looks the closest (Terrorist X), then issue a statement that it was Terrorist X that was bumped off, along with a few details (which will NOT include forensics data), and that will be that.
Yemeni forces have shot dead 10 followers of an anti-U.S. cleric in clashes in the mountainous north of the county and seized some of their bases, a Yemeni security source said on Thursday.
Dead is good
According to Reuters, he said Wednesday's clash brought to more than 60 the number of supporters of Hussein al-Houthi killed since June 20, when Yemeni troops launched an offensive against Houthi's "Believing Youth" group in Saada province.
"Hitler Youth" being trademarked
Sources close to Houthi have put the death toll from the clashes at about 200. Yemeni sources said nine policemen also died and 10 have been wounded. Yemeni authorities claim Houthi, a leader of the Zaidi Shi'ite sect, also heads the group which has staged protests against the United States and Israel. They have accused him of establishing and training an armed group and attacking mosques and preachers in Saada province. Meanwhile, 26 September weekly said the Theological Dialogue Committee started last Sunday and Monday dialogue sessions with a group of al-Houthi's followers, who were arrested in the recent clashes. The committee held two initial sessions with 220 of al-al-Houthi's supporters, who accepted the dialogue on the base of the Qura'an and Sonna, the report added.
I guess this is the group that talks them into being good little boys and lets them go with a promise not to be bad, till the next time.
Oh, goody... another terrorist to join in the fun in Saudi Arabia!
The government today agreed to drop the remaining immigration charges against Sami Omar Al-Hussayen. In return, the University of Idaho graduate student is dropping his appeal of a deportation order. Al-Hussayenâs defense attorney David Nevin says the former University of Idaho graduate student is going back to Saudi Arabia.
"Got the chip implanted in this mook, Tyrone?"
"Yep, right in his forehead, Bill, everytime he kneels to pray we get a signal."
The 34-year-old Al-Hussayen was acquitted earlier this month of using his computer skills to support terrorism and three immigration violations. The federal jury deadlocked on the eight other charges that were dropped today. Al-Hussayenâs case was seen as a confrontation between the First Amendment guarantee of free speech and the governmentâs war on terrorism.
The WoT lost. Eventually the WoT will stop losing, or we'll end up with shariah and no First Amendment...
The doctoral candidate in computer science was accused under provisions of the Patriot Act of lending his expertise to support terrorism. But Al-Hussayenâs lawyer claimed the father of three and a devoted Muslim was only volunteering his ability to maintain Web sites that were promoting Islam.
Posted by: Anonymous4617 ||
07/01/2004 1:46:01 AM ||
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New meaning to "who's got the monkey"
Posted by: Capt America ||
07/01/2004 6:27 Comments ||
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And Sami is one of the world's foremost authorities on internet-security. I'm sure the House of Saud could use those credentials for their usual less than good work.
Muslim cleric Abu Hamza, arrested on US terror charges, has been remanded in custody after appearing in a London court via a video link from prison. Mr Hamza, 46, faces nine charges, including hostage taking and supporting al-Qaeda, if the US successfully extradites him from Britain. He is being held at Belmarsh prison in London and appeared on a screen at Bow Street Magistrates' Court. District Judge Nicholas Evans remanded Mr Hamza in prison until 23 July. His hearing is scheduled to begin at that date at Belmarsh prison.
But his defence counsel, Ali Bajwa, told the court they will ask for an adjournment to gather more defence evidence. Mr Bajwa said: "There is likely to be an application to adjourn unless the application is refused, on 23 July." Hugo Keith, representing the US government, said the American authorities had submitted its allegations against the cleric. The US alleges Mr Hamza acted as an intermediary with a terrorist group which took 16 tourists hostage in the Yemen six years ago. It also claims he provided support for terrorists, particularly al-Qaeda, and attempted to establish a terror training camp in Oregon. Under current UK law, Britain must seek US agreement that no death penalty will be sought before any extradition is approved. Mr Hamza, who gained UK citizenship through marriage in 1981, did not speak during Thursday's 10-minute hearing.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/01/2004 9:03:50 AM ||
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#1
Has he tried the "repenting" thing? That seems to work in other places. Might be worth a shot.
#4
Can't someone please reduce the quality of hook-boy's tea or anything else that will push him over the edge into a hunger strike. Not that this tub couldn't afford to miss a few meals. If it worked for Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman it's surely worth a shot with this maggot too.
Nicaraguan officials said Thursday they had no evidence a suspected al-Qaida figure passed through their country to Honduras, but said it was possible.
With enough cash, you could pass a battleship through Nicaragua without anyone noticing
Honduran officials said Wednesday that Adnan Gulshair El Shukrijumah was spotted earlier this year at an Internet cafe in the capital, and was believed to have entered the country illegally from Nicaragua or Panama. "We do not rule out that this man could have been here or passed through Nicaragua, but disguised and with false documents," national police spokesman Freddy Salvatierra said Thursday of the Saudi-born suspect.
Salvatierra said that since the Sept. 11 terror attacks in the United States, Nicaragua has developed an extensive network to detect suspected terrorists, "and the only way he could pass unnoticed would be in camouflage."
Or disguised as a drug smuggler
Panamanian officials said El Shukrijumah arrived in Panama legally from the United States in April 2001 - five months before the Sept. 11 terror attacks - and stayed in the country for 10 days. He also visited Trinidad and Tobago for six days the next month. Immigration records show El Shukrijumah then returned to the United States, Interior Department spokesman David Salayandia said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 7:43:38 PM ||
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Soooo true, corruption personified is the order of the day in central American states.
Cash is king! Payoffs are a way of life.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 22:38 Comments ||
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Shhhhhhhhhhhhh! Corruption is part of their "cultural heritage"!
__________________________PC Police
A Saudi-born terror suspect sought by U.S. officials was spotted earlier this year at an internet cafe in Honduras before he fled the country, Honduran Security Minister Oscar Alvarez told The Associated Press. Adnan G. El Shukrijumah, who once lived in Miramar in South Florida, is the subject of an FBI alert issued in 2003. The agency has asked law enforcement agencies and the public to be on the lookout for El Shukrijumah, on the grounds that he may be plotting terrorist attacks against the United States or its interests abroad. ``This man was seen at an internet business in Tegucigalpa, and then he fled the country,ââ Alvarez said, referring to Hondurasâ capital city. El Shukrijumah, 28, apparently entered Honduras illegally from Nicaragua or Panama.
``This is a merciless individual who is linked to the Al Qaeda network terror network,ââ Alvarez said Wednesday. On security grounds, he refused to say exactly when the sighting occurred, noting only that it happened in 2004, and how El Shukrijumah had fled. He implied that the Honduran government received news of the manâs sighting after it was too late to catch him.``Honduras keeps tabs on suspicious foreigners in case they might be trying to commit terrorist attacks here or abroad,ââ Alvarez said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 7:39:09 PM ||
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Seven aircraft carriers to move within striking distance of China; Taiwan forces slated to join in drill
HONG KONG - The United States is planning a massive show of force in the Pacific Ocean near China to register a point with Beijing. In an exercise codenamed Operation Summer Pulse 04, it is expected to arrange for an unprecedented seven aircraft carrier strike groups (CSGs) to rendezvous in waters a safe distance away from the Chinese coastline - but still within striking distance - after mid-July.
This will be the first time in US naval history that it sends seven of its 12 CSGs to just one region...
Yesterday they were reported to be sailing to blockade Iran. That's the thing about carriers, you're never quite sure where they're gonna turn up.
#3
I prefer yesterday's story when they were on the way to Iran.
Guess the Chicoms were begining to think they might get away with grabbing Taiwan. 7 flatops would make anyone see the light.
#4
'But in five to 10 years, it can certainly take on seven,' said Mr Chang Hong-yi, head of Kanwa, in an interview with The Straits Times.
Ah, yeah, but didn't you read...we're doing it in mid-July???? I do like the different stories circulating about these carrier support groups...keeps our enemies (all of them) on their toes!
Posted by: BA ||
07/01/2004 14:34 Comments ||
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Of course, Taiwan is a lot closer to North Korea than to Iran. It's possible there's a plan to take out Kim Jong-Il or the NorK atom bombs or both, with indimidation of China as the cover story. (Seven carriers seems like an awful lot just to make a point about Taiwan.) If so, it's a twofer, since China would be even more intimidated by a successful decapitation and/or disarming of the NorK regime.
Say, when are those 3000 South Korean troops leaving for Iraq? If they should happen to be Marines and embarked on landing ships just as the 7 carriers arrive in the area, or if they should happen to be paratroopers and loaded on transport plans just as the 7 carriers arrive, . . . .
Of course, if I thought this were particularly likely, I'd keep it to myself.
Posted by: Dr. Weevil ||
07/01/2004 14:51 Comments ||
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Seven carriers...jeebus. That's gonna fill a whole mess of commie diapers. Oh the stench...the humanity!
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
07/01/2004 15:03 Comments ||
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I think the whole carrier fetish is overdone. Way overdone. The US doesn't need carriers to defend Taiwan. None were used to defend Britain against Germany during WWII. The Chinese cannot take Taiwan because American subs will litter the Taiwan Straits with the remains of their invasion fleet. Even if the Chinese manage to use their ballistic missiles to destroy Taiwanese airfields, the USAF can defend Taiwan using makeshift airfields constructed rapidly by combat engineers, just as American forces projected airpower throughout the Western Pacific during WWII. Carriers or no carriers, the Chinese haven't a prayer of pulling off a successful invasion.
#8
I doubt the unnamed Chinese officer's claim that China can take on 2 Battle Groups now. As for seven of them. . . d*mn. That's about 14 to 18 guided missile cruisers, 6 to 8 LA class SSNs, plus about 50 strike each = 350 topline fighters. I don't see China being able to do squat about that.
#9
ZF - i very much doubt Chicoms would try a "million man swim" IIUC the assumption is they would use missiles, air power, subs, etc to attack Taiwanese commerce, till Taiwan cries uncle.
Airfields on land on Taiwan would all be within range of Chinese air and missile, whereas Carriers could stand off east of taiwan, challenging range of mainland based assets. Also im not sure modern aircraft can be best used with a makeshift airfield, a la Henderson Field, etc. Carriers give you not just a flight deck but extensive support facilities, and dont involve permanently committing resources to one particular place.
In any case Taiwan is hardly the only place where the US could conceivably use Carriers.
#10
At first glance, this is reminiscent of Theodore Roosevelt sending the battleships of the Great White Fleet to show the big stick, also not unlike the countless REFORGER exercises in Europe. Just to show we can do it. With regard to decapitating NK, carrier battlegroups are not the weapon of first choice. Those F-117s being deployed to the ROK would be much more appropriate, particularly if accompanied by some B-2s.
#11
I hate to poo poo the strategists, but the PRC can take out the whole group with nuke warheads on silkworm missiles. Also some No Dong (lol) missiles with nukes are also useful against a large spread-out force. If you think the PRC doesn't think this way then ask yourself why they have invested so heavily in rocket and missile development?
#13
RWV.... yes it does!
(look like a Pacific Reforger!)
ZF you may want to check out the use of carrier air to defend the Atlantic Sealanes during WWII (aka the Big One)
Posted by: Fashion Mann ||
07/01/2004 15:50 Comments ||
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Silkworms would have little chance to pierce the Aegis bubble... it they do it's still not terminal... I don't believe they are nuclear capable. As far as the Chinee hitting a moving target with an ICBM... way unlikely.
#16
The Bikini Atoll tests showed that most large ships can survive surface nuke tests. The Saratoga and some of the larger battleships even survived the underwater test (the saratoga took 8 hours to sink after the underwater test and it is guessed with a repair crew onboard it could have been saved).
#19
No links as I'm in a hurry, but supposedly China is buying Sunburn anti ship and SA300 anti aircraft missiles from the Russians. They also want to buy fuel cell based subs (Air Independent Propulsion) from the Germans and develop stealth corvettes (armed with Sunburns presumably) for littoral operations. They have also launched radar satellites.
They are not standing still and will eventually be able to deny the US Navy access to the straits unless we counter.
Strategypage keeps track of these issues pretty well and fas.org has some good links to the weapons systems.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/01/2004 17:05 Comments ||
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Regarding the missiles, Cyber Sarge - I remember an old article saying that missiles are a far preferable quantity to the PLAAF (People's Liberation Army Air Force) due to their lack of humanity and thus inability to betray the Politburo ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
07/01/2004 17:27 Comments ||
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China is buying Sunburn anti ship
Aren't these the ones that threatened the flying hospitals?
#24
The comment made "sailing to blockade Iran" may be 100% correct knowing that the ultimate military objective in order to inflict maximum disruption to the general Islamic terrorist movement, naturally radical Iran must be brought under control and the best way is blockade all of Iran's oil for terror attempting to exit from the Persian Gulf.
It will be really something to witness mad mullahs sitting in their cars, at the local Tehran or Qom petrol station ....on long gas lines :)
These are the same people who 'held America hostage' under the Carter years.
Reciprocity is sailing to Iranian waters.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 18:14 Comments ||
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Posted by: Baltic Blog ||
07/01/2004 19:14 Comments ||
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No links as I'm in a hurry, but supposedly China is buying Sunburn anti ship and SA300 anti aircraft missiles from the Russians. They also want to buy fuel cell based subs (Air Independent Propulsion) from the Germans and develop stealth corvettes (armed with Sunburns presumably) for littoral operations. They have also launched radar satellites.
Not buying, bought, the Sovremennys came with 3M80s AFAIK. Re: subs, the bulk of the PLAN's boats are Mings/Romeos, i.e. Soviet versions of the type-XXI U-boat so not exactly SOTA, they've tried to design their own conventional boats (Wuhan-C/Song class) but their willingness to buy Kilos suggests the Songs aren't as sexy as they'd like us to believe...
The PLAN are engaged in a bit of a FFG frenzy at the moment AFAIK, not sure how much of a real threat their newer ships (Type-52) pose.
Posted by: Dave (UK) ||
07/01/2004 19:15 Comments ||
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#30
I told one of the guys at work that if he saw me walking funny that was because I was fully erect.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 2:24 Comments ||
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Before we get too carried away talking about what China may or may not do with what they may or may not have, lets stop and ask ourselves one question. How does China pay for all of this high tech firepower? Now take a minute and look over almost any item that you may have purchased in the last few years. What do 80% of them have in common? How about that damn MADE IN CHINA stamp. Now sit and think that through for a minute, and then think about our men and women in the military. Would you buy something stamped MADE IN IRAN or MADE IN NORTH KOREA?
A congressional commission on China stated in a report recently made public that Israel has become Chinaâs largest arms and weapons technology supplier after Russia. The report stated that the panel "continues to be concerned over Israeli transfers of U.S.-origin technology to China."
Bad Israel
In the 1990s, Israel was caught selling China Patriot anti-missile technology that U.S. officials say has ended up in Chinese air defense weapons. Israel in January 2003 suspended sales of arms to China that could harm U.S. security and a U.S.-Israeli discussion channel was set up to deal with the transfers. The report by the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, established under a 2000 law, disclosed that Amos Yaron, director-general of Israelâs defense ministry, restarted Israeli arms transfers to China in March 2004. According to the report, while the details of the talks are not known, "the commission understands that Israel has offered training facilities, including one for urban warfare, to train Chinaâs security forces for the Olympics."
Hummm, training anti-terrorist forces is ok by me.
Israeli companies are discussing a range of sensitive weapons-related sales to China, including exports of sensor and observation systems, security fences, microwave and optics, training, metal detectors and packages for airport and vital facilities security."
Again this group looks ok.
The report said Israel is also helping China develop unmanned aerial vehicles and is selling Tavor personal assault weapons, pilot training systems, advanced communications and surveillance gear and several types of UAVs.
This doesn't
Israeli HARPY anti-radiation drones have been spotted during Chinese exercises near Taiwan. "The HARPY is designed to detect, attack, and destroy radar emitters," the report said. "These systems pose a significant threat to various critical military C4ISR facilities on Taiwan as well as to U.S. operational forces operating in the region. The UAV has a range of about five hundred kilometers and contains a high-explosive warhead."
Unless we've got some kind of secret agreement and a back-door into these UAV's, Israel has got some explaining to do.
Posted by: Anonymous5089 ||
07/01/2004 10:06:51 AM ||
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The report stated that the panel "continues to be concerned over Israeli transfers of U.S.-origin technology to China."
Not good. If these guys don't have the decency to keep the technology in the stuff they buy from us from getting into our enemies' hands, then it's time to rethink the wisdom of sharing our developments with third parties and rethinking
what should and shouldn't be made available to sell to them.
#2
I suspect our guys are working with the Israelis to booby trap some of these systems. Most of the major platforms approved for export were approved under Clinton. GWB has been a lot more careful about the kinds of things we let them export. Israel has *always* abided by American wishes on weapons exports - the problem was that Clinton used Israel as a backdoor way to supply his Chinese friends with the latest gear.
#3
All of Clinton's tawdry stuff is pillow talk now. His real crime was his arming of China. Funny how just when Winky was getting heat over the Chinese connection, his sex scandle blew that off the radar.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/01/2004 16:01 Comments ||
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Let's do the math:
Israel facilitates China's own prohibitively expensive and understaffed foray into UAVs and advanced weapons systems.
China uses that financial latitude to proliferate nuclear technology to Iran.
Iran immediately threatens nuclear attack upon Israel with the first nuclear weapon they make.
What part of the equation is Israel not getting? Whichever morons are greedily slavering over the billions of arms dollars flowing through this exchange need to be capped, and d@mn quick.
Israel, like so many other nations that feed at the Mandarin's trough, needs a major wake up call. If Israel catches an Iranian nuclear attack, I shall not feel entirely sympathetic. In light of this idiotic treachery, perhaps the onus is upon Israel to bomb out Iran's nuclear facilities.
#10
It's a lot worse that the article let's on. Israel transferred the technology from the cancelled Lavi fighter to China who are now building the J10. The Lavi was to be an improved derivative of the F16, whose technology the US transferred to Israel and who also funded the development of the Lavi. Take a look at this Chinese J10 site. Notice the F16s twin?
Israel also sold technology from the Arrow anti ballistic missile system. The Arrow missile system guidance tech is from the Patriot system tech the US gave Isreal to so they could work on the Arrow. Israel also tried to supply China with Israeli airborne AWACs systems.
Is this the behavior of an ally? How many billions of dollars will the US have to spend to counteract this treachery. No F22s or other high tech weapons for Israel. The technology will just be sold to our enemies.
Posted by: ed ||
07/02/2004 0:56 Comments ||
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#11
The Russians are the main probelm. Fro examlpe the Russians are giving the Chines the Soverenmy class which was desinied to sink the Aegis system. The Russians have givern the Chinese SU30s which can kill a F-16 and F-15
#12
Here's another idea:
1. Jews hate Christians.
2. Jews love Communism.
3. Jews hate America.
Therefore Israel and American Jews help America's communist enemies, now and for the past 50 years.
If China should engage in warfare sometime in the future, should it employ Western methods of war and should it be bound by Western "rules of war"? The highly provocative answer from two Chinese military officers is "no."
In the 1990s, high-tech weapons seem to have reshaped the way wars will be fought in the future. The Gulf War in 1991 against Iraq and NATOâs air war earlier this year against Serbia demonstrated the power of a new generation of Western weaponry and theory. Western methods of warâoften called the "Revolution in Military Affairs"âseem to have triumphed.
But two senior Chinese air force colonels are not so sure. In early 1996, Qiao Liang and Wang Xianghui participated in the massive Chinese military exercises aimed at intimidating Taiwan during the runup to that islandâs first presidential elections. In turn, the exercises prompted the United States to send two aircraft carrier groups to the area as a demonstration of military might.
Later, the colonels met in a small town in southeastern Chinaâs Fujian Province and pondered Chinaâs military weakness compared to the United States. How could China defend itself against a nation that powerfulâif it ever needed to?
The result: a co-authored book, Chao Xian Zhan: Dui Quanqiu Hua Shidai Zhanzheng yu Zhanfa de Xiangding (Warfare Beyond Rules: Judgment of War and Methods of War in the Era of Globalization), published by the Peopleâs Liberation Army Art Press in February. The central premise: If China ever has to defend itself, it should be prepared to conduct "warfare beyond all boundaries and limitations."
The existing rules of war, according to Qiao and Wang, include a body of international laws and agreements developed over the decades by Western powers. As for methods of war, there is a kind of worship in much of the developed world of high technology and new weapons, areas in which the United States has a clear lead. But what is "right" for the United States, the authors say, may not be appropriate for China. Rest at the link
Posted by: Anonymous5089 ||
07/01/2004 10:00:30 AM ||
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#1
Funny, I still feel hungry even after reading the whole thing.
The two Chinese colonels wonder if perhaps the US might collapse a la the USSR, unable to bear the economic burden of its military prowess. Uh, methinks that as economists these guys are great defense strategists. If Wal-Mart loses any more of its local zoning fights in the LA basin, that alone will measurably decrease China's GNP and lead to cuts in the Chinese defense budget.
Overall their analysis seems very superficial and completely ignores the key to American military success and might: innovation, adaptation, initiative. The same things that make America so rich and provide the resources for a $2B B-2 bomber are what make the American military so effective. Coincidentally it's the same thing that makes the Shanghai skyline unrecognizable from 10 years ago.
I wonder when they will get a clue and realize that when(keyword) the rules are followed, they are followed because failing to do so.. has the potential to result in interesting side effects
#3
..should it be bound by Western "rules of war"? The highly provocative answer from two Chinese military officers is "no."
If they want to take the gloves off, that's not a problem. The simple solution to their messy little idea of "warfare beyond all boundaries and limitations" would be to simply vaporize them all and let God sort 'em out, which works for me.
#4
These guys are basically vacuuming up work by Western authors, adding a tint of Chinese conspiracy theory and wishful thinking, and passing it off as a revolutionary work. Conspiracy-minded Chinese view multilateral frameworks as part of a plan for American supremacy rather than the concessions to world opinion (i.e. America's enemies) that they are. They view asymmetrical warfare as something new and revolutionary when it is the product of wishful thinking. The fact that asymmetrical warfare is a loser's strategy is why Chinese troops are equipped with modern Western-designed weaponry rather than leather armor, the bows and arrows, swords, halberds, ballista and junks of their forebears.
New weaponry isn't casually adopted by any military - there is significant institutional opposition to abandoning weapons systems that are known to work for Buck Rogers gear of doubtful reliability. When the US military adopts a weapons system, it undergoes continual testing in real-world situations until it breaks. Congressmen are not known to be patient with defense contractors who make balky toys that kill their constituents. The contention of Chinese writers that American weapons systems are fragile is just a load of horse puckey. If this were the case, they wouldn't spend so much time and money trying to steal the technology from American research facilities.
#5
When will US companies start building factories in Mexico to produce the rinky-dink garbage that is currently made in China. There has to be a savings in shipping and from being within NAFTA that would offset whatever advantages there is to building in China. And if there are more jobs in Mexico less Mexicans will seek jobs in America.
#6
When will US companies start building factories in Mexico to produce the rinky-dink garbage that is currently made in China.
Can't set up something workable in Mexico when half the damned population keeps trying to scale the fence in order to get in here.
And if there are more jobs in Mexico less Mexicans will seek jobs in America.
Can't count on that. A job in the U.S. likely pays better than a job in a Mexican factory would, and in general, everything in the U.S. is in better condition; infrastructure, services, etc.
#7
yank: When will US companies start building factories in Mexico to produce the rinky-dink garbage that is currently made in China. There has to be a savings in shipping and from being within NAFTA that would offset whatever advantages there is to building in China. And if there are more jobs in Mexico less Mexicans will seek jobs in America.
Not going to happen. The average hourly wage for Mexican employees in the manufacturing sector is $4.80 an hour. The average Chinese employee works 10-hour days, excluding breaks, six days a week with Sundays off, for 500 yuan, which translates (assuming 25-work days a month) to 20 yuan a day, or 2 yuan per hour. The exchange rate is $0.125 per yuan. This means the average Chinese worker makes 25 cents per hour compared to the average Mexican's $4.80 per hour.
This is why China is sucking in the world's manufacturing jobs, because China is dirt-poor - one of the poorest countries in the world. The Chinese workers who toil at foreign plants are the lucky ones - many have no work at all or make 5 cents per hour working for domestic firms.
#8
Zhang, you're forgetting that do to productivity gains man hours are becoming less and less of the cost of goods formula and shipping is becoming more and more relevant. As productivity increases the number of goods this holds true for increases. It is already true for cars and every day the product categories grow. Shipping is becoming the most expensive piece of the puzzle which is very bad for China.
Also, in addition to the base shipping costs there is a markup to ship to America since we have a trade imbalance. It costs more to ship to America than to ship from America since we have so many ships leaving empty from our harbors due to our imports greatly outpacing our exports (except for services which obviously aren't shipped).
#9
Mexican labor is expensive in dollar terms compared to China. So is Philippine labor, Malaysian labor, Thai labor, etc. This is mainly due to relatively underpriced Chinese currency and relatively high productivity.
#10
Some excerpts:
The driving force behind the costly U.S. weapon programs and its strategic thought is the notion of "zero casualties," the authors say. The United States balances its strategic goals against the possibility that it might have casualties in achieving them. The United States is increasingly unwilling to risk lives to achieve its goals. That is a mistake, the authors assert ...
This is the fundamental flaw in Chinese military doctrine. In order to obtain the very highest loyalty from your fighting forces, commanders must demonstrate ultimate concern for their welfare. Chinese troops know that they are regarded as cannon fodder and will fight accordingly.
America's military doctrine of independently thinking soldiers will never be outshone by any sort of dictatorial or totalitarian system. This translates into greater battlefield autonomy and less reliance upon prescribed procedures. That China still exhibits a dynastic attitude towards those expected to give up their lives for it is clear proof how nothing has changed since the communist era.
But the colonels insist that there is still no complete "revolution" in U.S. military thought, because U.S. theory lacks the concept of "non-military war action." When contrasting "non-military war action" with "non-war military action," the authors are not merely playing a language game. Rather, the term attempts to expand the definition of warfare beyond commonly accepted bounds ...
A thinly veiled hint at terrorism. That's all.
Geographical security is an outdated concept, the authors argue, because threats to national security may not come from cross-border invasion, but from non-military actions. Definitions of security must now include geographical, political, economic, resource, religious, cultural, data, environmental, and near-earth space security ...
And this should include China's proliferation of nuclear technology to Iran. This blatant attempt at destabilizing areas of external regional conflict so as to distract or deplete an opponent's military capacity needs to be seen for what it is. North Korea has already been bred up into a snarling regional menace, yet China seemingly pays no price for this.
Beyond Rules emphasizes "asymmetric warfare"âfor instance, guerrilla war (mostly urban), terrorist actions, and cyber attacks against data networks. The idea is to strike in unexpected ways against vulnerable targets. A true revolution in war, the authors say, combines conventional with non-war actions; military with non-military actions. "War" may include a blend of stealth planes and cruise missiles along with biochemical, financial, and terrorist attacks ...
Here they freely admit terrorism into the complement of strategic assets.
Although Beyond Rules is not official policy, some of the extreme methods recommended in it will cause outsiders to worry about China's commitment to the ban on chemical and biological weapons. Yet, the book does not advocate an expansionist policy for China. Although the means suggested in the book are more aggressive than the international norm, they would be employed only in national defense ...
"Yet, the book does not advocate an expansionist policy for China." HORSESH!T. This sort of "total war" mentality is only designed for aggressive assault. You don't use bio-chem weapons to defend your own turf.
Have the authors of Beyond Rules gone too far? Or is the book a way of suggesting that the United States has already gone too far down the road of military dominance?
It cannot be helped if the politburo's Mandarins have finally realized how ineffectual their outdated and primative mechanized armaments are. As with Japan several decades ago, unable to obtain military ascendancy China seeks to gain economic primacy and thereby dictate global events.
America and all other nations need to question the wisdom of financing China's imperialistic dreams. China's economic house of cards is about to collapse in a big way. It would be far better for other countries to quietly back away from the pyre that will consume this bloated and corrupt behemoth.
Overwhelming bad bank debt, a massive AIDS epidemic, growing social unrest and a public which is increasingly unwilling to be steered away from Western style quality of living all signify major changes to come. Those nations who inextricably tangle their fortunes with China's own fateful and long overdue economic plunge will be in for a rude awakening.
#11
Interesting when all of these chinese military theorists talk about unconventional war they forget (as I mentioned in an above message) about the three gorges dam. Even if we don't hit it, there are other nations in the area that would have enough capability to take it out with horrible consequences for the chinese.
#12
Zenster, go tell it to Wall Street. :( However, I concede them one point:
The driving force behind the costly U.S. weapon programs and its strategic thought is the notion of "zero casualties," the authors say. The United States balances its strategic goals against the possibility that it might have casualties in achieving them. The United States is increasingly unwilling to risk lives to achieve its goals. That is a mistake, the authors assert ...
Someone's been watching our national media :-&
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
07/01/2004 17:34 Comments ||
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#13
"non-military war action."
...could also mean they'll stop exporting crap to us. I wonder if they think all the sporting ammo they ship is what sustains our military?
#14
The idea is to strike in unexpected ways against vulnerable targets. A true revolution in war, the authors say, combines conventional with non-war actions; military with non-military actions.
Which is not all that surprising, when one gets into that mode of thought. For example, the Japanese were able to eventually dominate the automobile industry by identifying a weakness and exploiting it. The anti-smoking campaign is another example of a well-fought guerilla war.
Similarly, it becomes very hard or costly to change or remove something once it has become so interwoven into an infrastructure (Windows or Wal-Mart, anyone?).
None of this is new. It's that few actually think large enough to combine all the elements into a strategy.
#16
If you mean that much of this is sensationalized, Mr. TowninWestVirginia, you're probably right. Not to worry - something else odd and icky will divert the MSM's attention soon enough.
And that I do, Edward. I shop at WalMart less than once a year and do my best to avoid purchasing Chinese goods whenever possible. It's too bad that so few Americans have the wits to realize the heavy costs attatched to WalMart's low price tags.
#23
Some of the assumptions of this pre-9/11 book would have read better in the 90's. The U.S. has demonstrated it still has a bit of "will." Many of the elements of A-symmetric warfare work best if you are invaded. If there is a Pentagon plan for an invasion of China, I would expect that it is pretty dusty. We might free Tibet or portions of "occupied China," but why would a bunch of imperialists like us want China if we decided not to make Iraq our 51st state.
The Golden Dragon has a decent Mongolian barbeque. They can asymmetrically build a pyramid with their rubble, if they decide that they want a piece of us.
I bet the book flies of the shelves of the Border Books in Pyongyang.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 0:22 Comments ||
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 15:41 ||
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#1
So this thing went on for 2 years so far? That's absolutely crazy. Of course the IBM antitrust trial went on for 10 years....hmmmm....that was crazy, too.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/01/2004 21:50 Comments ||
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#2
It Is The Will of Allah (PBUH)!
_______________________________borgboy in the subjuctive. Actually Allah would be quite thrilled to have this anti-Islamofascist dead. (So alright, mebbe Milosevic is a fascist, but he coulda been "our fascist" as F.D.R. might say...
From The Associated Press (posted on MyWay)
... The government agreed to dismiss the immigration charges against Sami Omar Al-Hussayen, 34, in return for his dropping an appeal of a deportation order. "Heâs going back to Saudi Arabia," defense attorney David Nevin said. "This long ordeal has come to a close."
Al-Hussayen was acquitted in early June of using his computer skills to support terrorism, along with three other immigration violations. But the jury deadlocked on eight additional charges - all of which were dropped Wednesday. Prosecutors said Al-Hussayen set up and ran Web sites that were used to recruit terrorists, raise money and disseminate inflammatory rhetoric. But the defense claimed Al-Hussayen, a father of three and a devoted Muslim, was only volunteering his ability to maintain Web sites that were promoting Islam. Any radical material on the sites did not reflect Al-Hussayenâs views and was protected by the Constitution, Nevin said. ...
U.S. Attorney Tom Moss said that even if Al-Hussayen was convicted on the remaining charges, he would have likely been sentenced to time served and deported anyway, making any further court action a needless expense. "It is in the best interests of the people of the United States that Mr. Al-Hussayen leave the country as soon as possible, and this agreement accomplishes that," Moss said.
The son of a prominent Riyadh family whose education was being financed by the Saudi government, Al-Hussayen has been jailed since his arrest in February 2003. He was ordered deported last year but kept in the United States for trial. His wife and three sons returned to Saudi Arabia in January rather than fight deportation themselves.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/01/2004 11:26:22 PM ||
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#1
Works for me. Violate immigration laws and regulations and you get the old heave ho. If I am a guest in someone else's country, I obey their laws. Seems only right, but I am but a lowly infidel.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/01/2004 23:39 Comments ||
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#2
Jack 'im up with something really infectious just before you put him on the plane. Tell him it's for Yellow Fever or something - and really make it Yellow Fever, not the vaccine. Incubation time, anyone?
#3
3-4 days, should catch the whole house of Saud in the celebration feast of their Islamic Hero's⢠return
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:46 Comments ||
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#4
Something about this sounds like, "We made this scumbag an offer he couldn't refuse."
Posted by: Jen ||
07/01/2004 23:57 Comments ||
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#5
Well, post-injection, he definitely would be a scumbag regardless of what he was before, lol! In this assclown's case, it would be scumbag squared...
One of Washington stateâs five refineries may have come under surveillance by terrorists, according to the Department of Homeland Security, which said that although the suspicious activity could be a prelude to an attack, it had no specific intelligence targeting energy-related infrastructure. Though the department offered no specifics, it said an "individual in a kayak was observed videotaping a northwestern U.S. companyâs refinery. The companyâs security personnel reported a suspicious encounter with a diver in the same general area last year."
In addition, the department said a key ring with about 50 keys on it was stolen from a field truck owned by a company with a Northwest refinery. The keys could provide "potential access" to the companyâs facilities throughout the country, though the department said locks on the local facility were being changed. The department, in a bulletin sent to petroleum company officials as well as state and local law enforcement officials, said similar incidents had been reported at oil and gas refineries and pipeline facilities elsewhere in the country. "Suspicious incident reports concerning possible surveillance of oil and gas refineries and infrastructure continue to emerge from throughout the homeland and may, in some cases, be indicative of terrorist pre-operational activities," the department said. "Al-Qaeda views critical infrastructure targets -- particularly businesses involving oil and gas -- as attractive options because of their potentially significant economic, public health and safety, and psychological impacts."
The bulletin noted there have been a series of terrorist attacks on energy sector targets overseas, particularly in the Persian Gulf. The reports of suspicious activity in the United States have come from security officials at refineries, law enforcement officials and concerned citizens, the bulletin said. "Oftentimes individuals involved in suspicious photographing or videotaping of a facility would rapidly depart the scene before authorities could question them," the bulletin said. "In some cases, vehicle license plate registration checks reveal a mismatch between license plate and vehicle." Though no "identifiable trend or conclusive analysis" has emerged, the department said it appeared the activity could be characterized as surveillance of energy-related facilities.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 9:29:19 AM ||
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Interesting info...comes on the heels of the FBI detaining middle eastern men near a nuke plant in PA. They asked directions for a spot near the river for "fishing". When stopped, the van had no fishing equipment. 2 were held for visa issues and then all were subsequently released. We're there a number of unexplained refinery explosions recently? BP plant in Texas...
Posted by: jawa ||
07/01/2004 12:08 Comments ||
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EFL
A man who authorities believe may have been part of an Al Qaeda "sleeper cell" obtained a license to haul hazardous materials months after he was identified as a suspected terrorist by the FBI, officials said. In other news: INS announced a new program to give digital cameras to Iranian citizens entering The United States.
The FBI identified Mohamad Kamal Elzahabi as a suspected terrorist before the attacks of 2001, the Star Tribune reported in Wednesdayâs editions, citing unidentified law enforcement officials. Now, he is just a harding working truck driver tryinâ to raise a family. God bless him.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/01/2004 7:19:41 AM ||
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#1
"...obtained a license to haul hazardous materials..."
In the trucking business, one does not obtain a license to haul "Hazardous Materials". You obtain a license to drive a truck, the HazMat authorization is just an endorsement on the license itself. And, it is no big deal, just pass a test with 75 questions and you're done.
They make this sound as if he managed something special. Given the fact that the Feebs and State licensing agencies do not exchange information, I'm not surprised that he was able to do this.
I would imagine that there are quite a few others out there they do not know about. Disable or otherwise impair the trucking industry, and you will have brought the American economy to a halt. Literally!
EFL
Five men from Islamic nations were detained after asking for directions to a Pennsylvania nuclear power plant. The men, one from Pakistan and four from Bangladesh, reportedly were seen yesterday at a rest area along Interstate 80, on their way to the Salem Township plant, according to the Citizenâs Voice newspaper of Wilkes-Barre, Pa. Were they trolling the bathrooms?
What are the odds the Pakistani was the leader?
Well after all, he's the one with all the passports.
The men, who were released last night, claimed they were asking directions to the river near the plant because they wanted to go fishing, the paper said. Hey! Just some good natured tourists. Just like the Iranians burning film in NY.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/01/2004 6:31:30 AM ||
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Give a man a fish and he eats today. Teach a man to fish and he's got an excuse to scope out your nuclear powerplants.
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 13:42 Comments ||
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#11
Ya fishing. YA that's it we uh....just fishing ya....That's all......move along nothing to see here.....we were ....just going to fish.....
I guess I'm on Arab alert this holiday since I live 2 miles from TMI...I think I'll get a bucket of KFC and sit out in the yard with my shotgun.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
07/01/2004 13:49 Comments ||
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#12
#6 M4D: "Who knows. Who knows what goes on today? That's the reason I keep my doors locked," said Catherine Rinehimer of Salem Township.
WTF? As if your door will keep a nuke plant blowing up from harming you! Pretty interesting to find that they had NO fishing gear, wanted to fish near a nuke plant (according to article, they're from NYC, why are they heading west to fish? East River not good enough for ya?), etc. BTW, has anyone ever seen a Paki or Bangladeshi fishing? Not that I'm racist, but I go fishing quite a bit, and don't remember ever seeing any of these guys fishing!
Posted by: BA ||
07/01/2004 14:05 Comments ||
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#13
The water intake pipe is now listed in vol. 34 of "The Atlas of the Holiest Places in Islam (abridged)."
#14
There is fishing near the plant. There's a parkland right next to it, which has trout-stocked lakes. And the Susquehanna is a good fishing river. (And, BA, folks here in NYC fish in both the Hudson and the East River!)
Neither article mentions the lack of fishing licenses. So, the cops pick up 5 "fishermen" with no gear and no licenses and let them go?
One article says they stopped near the NJ/PA border. That means they were asking directions near the Delaware Water Gap. A national park where rangers certainly would be suspicious. As for Berwick, PA:
White Non-Hispanic (96.3%)
Hispanic (1.6%)
Black (0.9%)
Two or more races (0.6%)
Other race (0.6%)
American Indian (0.5%)
Five Arabs would draw just a teensy bit of attention. Especially in Pennsyltucky.
Also, if they were first noticed at the border, how come they weren't picked up until more than 100 miles later? Also, why drive 2 1/2 hours to PA when you could go fish in upstate NY, a lot closer?
This is worrisome, and I fear those cops were stupid.
#16
"this story is remind me of scene in star trek 4. that when checkov is asking cops where he can find the nuclear vesels."
Me too, mucky. That's because the Islamic guys are from the future! It's perfectly clear. Four guys from Bangaledesh and a Pakistani leader, pretending to fish? It's definitely an away team. And they've come for peace. I just hope the police didn't scare them away. Might make them never come back there again.
#17
The power plant that I worked at for a year had several ponds for the discharge of water that was too warm to be put back into the Ohio directly. Some of the guys that worked for me said that the fish were huge due to the temperature - note: JM Stuart Station was conventional so none of the fish had more than a single pair of eyes.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/01/2004 23:07 Comments ||
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EFL:
The active U.S. intelligence officer known only as "Anonymous," who has gained world renown this month as author of an upcoming book called "Imperial Hubris," is actually named Michael Scheuer, according to an article in the Boston Phoenix today by Jason Vest. Speculation about his identity has run rampant since a June 23 article in The New York Times discussed the book and the background of the author. The book, "Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror," asserts, among other things, that Osama bin Laden is not on the run and that the invasion of Iraq has not made the United States safer.
In that June 23 piece, the Times identified Anonymous as a 22-year CIA veteran who ran the Counterterrorist Center's bin Laden station from 1996 to 1999, adding that a "senior intelligence official" held that revealing the man's full name "could make him a target of Al Qaeda." Anonymous has appeared in brief television interviews always in silhouette. According to Vest, "Nearly a dozen intelligence-community sources, however, say Anonymous is Michael Scheuer -- and that his forced anonymity is both unprecedented and telling in the context of CIA history and modern politics." Vest in his article notes that "at issue here is not just the book's content, but why Anonymous is anonymous. After all, as the Times and others have reported, his situation is nothing like that of Valerie Plame, a covert operative whose ability to work active overseas cases was undermined when someone in the White House blew her cover to journalist Robert Novak in an apparent payback for an inconvenient weapons-of-mass-destruction intelligence report by her husband, Joseph Wilson. Anonymous, on the other hand, is, by the CIA's own admission, a Langley, Va.-bound analyst whose identity has never required secrecy.
A bitter, desk-bound analyst with a agenda of his own, it seems.
#1
also since he ran the bin-Laden station from 1996 to 1999, a logical person would infer that his book really reflects on how the Clinton administration was losing the war
don't hold your breath waiting for big media to make the same inference
EFL The United States has delivered 30 refurbished helicopters to Thailand to help it fight Muslim militants in the south and guard against drug trafficking in the north. The gift that keeps on giving a pounding to rat bag terrorists!
"We know you will make good use of these UH-1s, as you have the Black Hawks you have purchased [during] the past several years, and which we hope will be the long-term future of army aviation in Thailand," U.S. Ambassador Darryl N. Johnson said while announcing the delivery of the helicopters at the Royal Thai Army Aviation Center in Lopburi province yesterday. Enjoy!
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/01/2004 9:01:47 AM ||
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Six Muslim militants thought to have played a role in the bombings of two nightclubs on the resort island of Bali and the J.W. Marriott hotel in Jakarta have been arrested in Indonesia, police said Thursday. National Police Chief Gen. Dai Bachtiar would not release their names but insisted they all played a central role in the attacks. He did not say if they were members of the al Qaeda-linked regional terror group Jemaah Islamiyah, which is widely believed responsible for the bombings. "Clearly, they planned and were involved in the Bali and Marriott bombings," Bachtiar said.
The six suspects were arrested in a house in Sukoharjo, some 240 miles east of Jakarta, said another police official, who refused to be named. Bachtiar said he was hopeful that the arrests could lead police to the countryâs most wanted fugitives â Malaysian terror suspects Azahari bin Husin and Noordin Mohammed. In the past two weeks, authorities have stepped up their search for Azahari and Noordin. Both men are members of Jemaah Islamiyah and are believed to be on the run in Indonesia. They narrowly escaped capture in November when police raided a house they were renting in Bandung, about 110 miles west of Jakarta. Authorities have warned that the two are armed with explosives and plan fresh attacks ahead of Indonesiaâs presidential elections on Monday.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 8:33:31 AM ||
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Malaysia is turning into another training center for the jihadic minded. It's PM is 9 cents short of a dime.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 12:49 Comments ||
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July 1st, 2004
The United States has urged the International Atomic Energy Agency to investigate whether Syria was a client of the secret Pakistani nuclear weapons network. The most alarming evidence of Syrian involvement with Khan occurred in early 2004, sources said. They said the National Security Agency obtained signals that suggested that Damascus was operating gas centrifuges.
We reported on this previously.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 10:02:13 AM ||
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oppps, sorry about that chief :)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 12:31 Comments ||
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From Geostrategy-Direct, subscription reqâd...
The United States has urged the International Atomic Energy Agency to investigate whether Syria was a client of the secret Pakistani nuclear weapons network. The most alarming evidence of Syrian involvement with Khan occurred in early 2004, sources said. They said the National Security Agency obtained signals that suggested that Damascus was operating gas centrifuges. Khan was marketing the P-1 and P-2 centrifuges to Iran, Libya and North Korea. Western diplomatic sources said the United States has asked the IAEA to determine whether Syria acquired or ordered nuclear weapons technology and equipment from the network of Abdul Qadeer Khan. The IAEA has obtained information that Syria could have issued orders from Khan during his visit to Syria in 1999. So far, the IAEA has met with the Syrian representative to the Vienna-based United Nations agency. But sources said the Syrian delegate merely dismissed the questions and assured agency officials that Damascus was not involved in any nuclear weapons program. "We know noting, we are not involved, it is all a lie!"
For his part, IAEA Director-general Mohammed El Baradei said he has received full cooperation from Syria. He said the regime of President Bashar Assad has agreed to allow inspectors to tour suspected nuclear facilities. Let the circus begin....*sigh*
"The Syrians told me they would be happy if we go and verify whatever we need to verify," El Baradei said. "But we havenât gotten any piece of information on why we should be concerned about Syria." Pretty dark in this sand hole.
The State Department has refused to confirm or deny that the United States picked up signals about centrifuges in Syria. The IAEA has also refused to discuss the issue. "All of us can say nothing!"
At a congressional hearing last week, a former UN weapons inspector said Saudi Arabia and Syria were suspected of being clients of Khan. David Albright, a former UN weapons inspector chief, told a Senate Government Affairs subcommittee that the issue must be investigated.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/01/2004 3:08:27 AM ||
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For the IAF, a lot shorter flight to Syria than Iran....hmmmmm, maybe they could take these out on the return flight
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 10:28 Comments ||
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#2
El Baradei is too busy with Israeli WMD to focus on the villians.
Posted by: Capt America ||
07/01/2004 17:20 Comments ||
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Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/01/2004 03:09 ||
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Conclusion
What we ask for is not much -- only what is necessary to protect our security and to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons and other WMD. All that Iran must do is to abide by the treaties it has signed banning weapons of mass destruction and stop its program to develop ballistic missiles. We cannot let Iran, a leading sponsor of international terrorism, acquire the most destructive weapons and the means to deliver them to Europe, most of central Asia and the Middle East, or beyond.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/01/2004 17:18 Comments ||
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#2
And we won't. John Bolton is a burr in the side of the villans and a stellar performer at Foggy Bottom.
Posted by: Capt America ||
07/01/2004 17:23 Comments ||
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From Al Muhajiroun
... the life of the kafir has no sanctity unless he has a covenant of security, either mustaâman or dhimmi, however originally he has no sanctity. Any explosion ... that has haq is a great cause for reformation and settlement. Any bombing can be praised by Allah and can also be dispraised by Allah. ... the explosions are of types. We must know what was the objective and aim of the operation? Who was targeted and who was killed? Was the aim to please Allah? Were Muslims targeted or kuffar? Was the objective to kill Muslims or to fight the aggressors? ....
The people who condemn these attacks do not stop to think, neither about what the objective of the bombing was nor who was targeted and attacked. People condemn the bombings in Turkey against the HSBC bank, forgetting completely the usury and ribaâ widespread because of it, people have even started to ask âcan we use suicide bombings in Palestine?â Allah (swt) ordered and obliged upon us to terrify and anger the kuffar, the enemies of Allah and the Muslims. Allah (swt) says, âPrepare as much as you can from power and steeds of war, in order to terrorize the enemy of Allah and your enemy.â
There is no doubt that bombing the kuffar in Muslim lands and the lands of the kuffar will terrify them, anger them and deter them from attacking us again. We see nowadays that there is nothing that shakes the enemy except the attacking and bombing and violence for the sake of Allah. In Palestine, the Jews suffer and feel as if they are in hell because of the regular daily attacks and operations, but they never felt any fear or suffering from demonstrations in London. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/01/2004 10:52:02 PM ||
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Great research on this one . The truth shall be known.
The enemy's own words:
âPrepare as much as you can from power and steeds of war, in order to terrorize the enemy of Allah and your enemy.â
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 22:56 Comments ||
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#2
This schtuff will rot your brain, Mike - small doses and regular recoup cycles, heh. I could comment since it's such familiar territory, but last time I did I upset a few folks and, well, it's late and I'd hate to keep certain people up.
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:13 Comments ||
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.com---what you said in #2 is what my wife says about me reading RB. And she is a psychologist. Interesting thing she said after colleagues at school were against Iraq and Afghanistan ops. She countered, "What would you do if you and your family were attacked by a psychopath who threatened to kill you? Would you:
1. Try to reason with him.
2. Defend yourself and/or call the cops.
She said that what we are doing is dealing with a homocidal psychopathic killer and #2 is what we are doing now. At least some of the people said, hmmmmm.....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/01/2004 23:19 Comments ||
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#5
AP - But as a Psych she knows that anger outlets managed intellectually are exceptionally healthy (assuming conclusive results are reached - i.e. informed opinion and knowledge), right? Applying reason is supposed to be a very productive rechanneling of the energy, right? Or am I reading the wrong School of Thought? Lol!
Your hypothetical...
Now as for reasoning with an outside entity, the attacker, unless you are blogging regularly on Law Enforcement or Akido sites, heh, I don't think it will do much good. I'll take door #2! Shoot the zipperhead...
I can see it now in hardback: Blogging - Path to Insanity! Oh my mental health!
#6
AP: Kill the psychopath using any object handy that will distribute slow painful death (gutshot?). Don't call the police. They complicate things needlessly....just bury the body on your worst enemy's property
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:28 Comments ||
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From ABC News
Afghanistanâs Taliban guerrillas say they cut the throat of a Muslim cleric after they discovered him propagating Christianity and warned foreign aid workers they would face similar treatment if they did the same. Taliban spokesman Abdul Latif Hakimi telephoned Reuters on Thursday to say that the guerrillas killed Maulawi Assadullah in the remote Awdand district of Ghazni province the previous day.
"A group of Taliban dragged out Maulawi Assadullah and slit his throat with a knife because he was propagating Christianity," he said. "We have enough evidence and local accounts to prove that he was involved in the conversion of Muslims to Christianity. .... We warn them that they face the same destiny as Assadullah if they continue to seduce people," he said.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/01/2004 11:20:10 PM ||
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He probably denied them support. The Christianity angle makes it OK to kill him
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:50 Comments ||
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From Jihad Unspun
Iraqi university professors on Sunday accused the Zionist Mossad intelligence agency of assassinating some 100 Iraqi university professors and intellectuals since the beginning of the US occupation in spring 2003. Dr. Huda an-Nuâaymi, the President of the Palestine Research Center in the University of Baghdad declared that the âIsraeliâ Mossad, committed the murders in collaboration with the US and British occupation forces. She said that the killings had driven a large number of Iraqâs professors to leave the country. Dr. an-Nuâaymi added that the Zionists entered Iraq unsupervised under the cover of commercial companies investing in the âreconstructionâ of the country.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/01/2004 11:15:38 PM ||
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Alternate reality humor check. I don't which of the three stories on this link is funnier. These guys could write for Michael Moore and greatly improve the quality of his films.
good...we counting Abu Nidal? Zionists working for Saddam? Wouldn't that put LLL panties in a knot if we prosecuted Hussein for having Abu Nidal killed? Oh My Gaawwddd! The Islamic Ironyâ¢!
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:35 Comments ||
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#6
Geez, you really think these people can govern themselves in a democratic manner? I'm not sure that democracy cna function in the "arab nights" world. After about 3 years of paying closer attention, Arabs sure start looking like they are inhabiting a different world. Scary
Posted by: marek ||
07/01/2004 23:44 Comments ||
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#7
marek - it's that lack of understanding of Cause=>Effect that makes Arabs so precious
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:45 Comments ||
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From Jihad Unspun
.... US aggressor aircraft carried out violent attacks on a number of neighborhoods in the city of Fallujah on Wednesday night. The Industrial Zone in the south of the city and the al-âAskari neighborhood in the north were both hit particularly hard. ... US aircraft on Wednesday night dropped eight murderous cluster bombs on several neighborhoods of al-Fallujah. American helicopters dropped two on the al-âAskari neighborhood and six on the Industrial Zone and ash-Shuhadaâ neighborhood, which are separated from each other by only one street. ... the cluster bombs had fortunately not caused any casualties, thanks to the fact that the areas had already been evacuated in the face of heavy fighting with the US invaders in those areas. US snipers had deployed in areas of elevated terrain that look down upon the neighborhoods in order to snipe at the residents. ...
... the reason for the vicious US bombardment of those districts of the city was the fact that a large American supply column was passing by the city from the north to the south and the air attacks were intended to distract the Resistance from the convoy. Earlier in the week, Resistance in Fallujah succeeded in cutting off US supply lines by striking the land convoys that were carrying the goods. US aggressor troops on Wednesday withdrew in every direction from the city. As a result of the US pull-back, the American forces are now on the opposite side of the highway from Fallujah and there are six American tanks to the east of the city. ...
Before dawn Wednesday, however, it became clear that the concentration of forces was intended to divert the attention of the Resistance from a major supply convoy that was travelling from Baghdad to al-Habbaniyah base. The Resistance was able to mobilize to prevent the convoy from getting through. ... From time to time the US concentrates and then disperses its forces around the city in an effort to tire out the Resistance and to look for weak points in the defenses. Such antics are also intended as a form of psychological warfare, an effort to keep the cityâs defenders off balance.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/01/2004 11:07:09 PM ||
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In other Jihad Unspun news: US forces use Zionist bullets to kill magical Islamic Unicorn
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:52 Comments ||
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#2
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but the USA doesn't employ cluster bombs in its arsenal, even though the Left always and often says that we do.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/01/2004 23:54 Comments ||
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Jen - yeah, we still have 'em, but their use is heavily restricted, I believe.
Now flechette rounds, I miss 'em. You could take out 20 bad guys in heavy elephant grass with one well-aimed arty round.
Two Russian policemen were killed and another one injured in a clash with guerrillas in Ingushetia bordering breakaway republic of Chechnya on Thursday, Russian newsagencies reported.
The shoot-out broke out early Thursday when the policemen, who were conducting a targeted search operation, found rebels in one of the houses of a settlement, Interfax quoted an unnamed official from Ingush Interior Ministry as saying.
The rebels then opened fire on the police, the official said.
Three attackers were killed while other two were detained, according to the official.
Itar-Tass quoted the ministry as saying that the policemen werehunting for guerrillas that staged simultaneous attacks on police and government buildings of Ingushetia on June 22. At least 88 people, including servicemen and civilians, were killed in the attacks.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 8:06:48 PM ||
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About 10 more rebel militants suspected of taking part in the deadly Ingushetia raids June 21 were detained Thursday in the North-Caucasus internal republic, the Itar-Tass news agency reported.
At least a dozen rebel militants have already been detained, news agencies reported.
The 10 suspects â including one woman â were detained at about 5 a.m. Thursday in the Malgobek region after putting up resistance, the news agency reported, citing acting Interior Minister Beslan Khamkhoyev. Two interior troops were killed in the skirmish, two others were injured.
Four militants, meanwhile, were killed.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 7:58:48 PM ||
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(At least those not performing their jihad duties 110%)
July 1st, 2004 /The Scotsman
SUDANâS government bowed to international pressure to tackle the growing humanitarian crisis in Darfur yesterday by promising to combat Arab militants and increase access for aid groups in the region.
The pledge came as Colin Powell, the United States Secretary of State, and Kofi Annan, the United Nations Secretary General, arrived in Khartoum, the Sudanese capital, to discuss the situation.
Their visit coincided with US calls for a UN resolution that would impose an arms embargo and travel ban on the Janjaweed militia, blamed for attacks in Darfur that have forced more than one million people to flee their homes.
The proposed resolution stops short of imposing sanctions on Sudanâs government, which has been accused of supporting the Arab militia, but calls on it to cease all military attacks in Darfur, disarm and neutralise the Janjaweed and protect civilians in the region.
It says that, within 30 days of adoption, the UN will determine if sanctions should be imposed against "any other individuals or groups responsible for the commission of atrocities in Darfur".
"We will combat any militias and Janjaweed so that we secure the protection of civilians," the Sudanese foreign minister, Mustafa Osman Ismail, said during a press conference with Mr Powell.
Meanwhile, aid workers said there was evidence the Janjaweed were using rape as a weapon of ethnic cleansing against black Africans.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 6:06:50 PM ||
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President Gen Pervez Musharraf while presiding over a high level meeting regarding law and order in the country, held here Awan-e-Sadr on Thursday said that Wana and Shakai were headquarters of Al-Qaeda and added that terrorists hiding there and their harbours would be dismantled.
Terrorists? In Wana? I'm shocked, shocked!
The President identified contrasting perceptions vis-a-vis law and order the gap between policy formation and its implementation as the major impediments in the way of maintenance of peace and security in the country.
You mean when you say you're gonna clean out Wana and then don't do squat?
He underlined that the religio-political parties as well as Ulema and Mashaikh should also fulfill their obligation in promoting sectarian harmony and tolerance in the society.
Harmony? Tolerance? We still talking about Pakistan?
The meeting which lasted for about five hours was attended by Prime Minister Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, Senior Minister Shaukat Aziz, Interior Minster Faisal Saleh Hayat, Information Minster Sheikh Rashid Ahmad, Minster for religious affairs Ijazul Haq, governors and chief ministers of all the four provinces, Vice Chief of Army Staff General Yousaf Khan and chiefs of law enforcement and intelligence agencies.
Interior Minister Syed Faisal Saleh Hayat told Geo TV that the meeting identified internal security threats and discussed ways and means to curb them.
"We focused on the possible solutions of law and order problems and decided that the Government would concentrate on addressing the problems at flashpoint places."With close coordination between the provinces and the federal government, we will be able to root out the menace of extremism, terrorism and lawlessness", he said.
Uh huh, that'll come right after harmony and tolerance break out.
The President warned that elements, which are bent upon impairing law and order situation and are conspiring to stop fruits of economic progress reach masses would not succeed in their vicious designs. Given the present circumstances the President said that rooting of terrorism and extremism were in the large interest of the country."Pakistan would achieve its objectives without comprising its national interest", he said. The meeting also reviewed reports regarding imparting of training of terrorism in some seminaries of the country.
They just noticed, did they?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 7:34:44 PM ||
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The past few days have seen escalating confrontations between the Algerian army and militant groups, chiefly the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), which claimed the lives of at least 100 people from both sides. No clue where they got this figure from. The GSPC dead have all been in the low dozens by my count, so I guess itâs massacre time again for the hard boyz.
Algerian security forces killed on Saturday, June 26, Ali Bournani, head of a GSPC squadron near Khemis El-Khechna, southeast of the capital Algiers.
Shortly afterwards two members of the squadron were killed in the nearby town of Ouled Salem.
The armyâs operation came few days after the GSPC claimed an attack on Hamma power station outside Algiers, on the evening of June 21 which left at least 11 people wounded.
"The El-Borkane (volcano) phalange (of the GSPC) placed a lorry packed with explosives against the perimeter wall of the power station, which is considered to be the countryâs most important and strategic electricity production facility," the GSPC said in a statement posted on its website.
It added that its fighters "tried to avoid loss of human life by reducing the explosive charge, which should have been bigger and destroyed the whole plant."
The GSPC described the attack as "one of a series of acts of harassment which, even if they are not 100-percent successful, will give the lie to fabrications (by the authorities) about things like control of the security situation, assurances for foreign investors and residues of terrorism."
Interior Minister Yazid Zerhouni had initially said the blast was "apparently accidental," but reports suggested it was a reprisal for the killing of GSPC leader Nabil Sahrawi by the army on June 20.
Observers said the armyâs operation against Sahrawi mark a new strategy that seeks to crack down on the strongholds of militant groups as compared to just drying up logistic support given to them.
Sahrawi, also known as Abu Ibrahim Mustapha, and three of his lieutenants were gunned down during a weeping anti-terrorism operation in the Bejaia area, east of the capital Algiers.
Weapons, ammunition and documents were recovered during the operation.
Algerian political analysts said the armyâs operation was remarkable and significant having been able to hit the GSPC leadership.
They noted that the army has mastered an anti-terrorism combat skills and tactics, thanks to security cooperation with the United States.
The experts also cited the lifting of arms import embargo once slapped against the country by the Unites States, France and Britain.
With the beginning of summer, Algerian authorities beefed up security procedures and placed security barricades along the entrances of the capital and the main crossroads.
Militant groups have in the past years stepped up attacks in summer, particularly along the beaches.
The sudden spiral in violence this month after a two-month lull leaves political analysts in Algeria wondering whether the security situation would remain fluctuating.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 8:09:16 PM ||
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TARIN KOT, Afghanistan (Reuters) - U.S. Marines arrested a Taliban commander they described as a "high value" provincial target and killed another guerrilla in a sweeping operation in the central Afghan province of Uruzgan on Thursday.
The Marines did not name the commander detained in the Tarin Kot region whose face matched a photo on their list of wanted guerrillas.
But Captain James Martin, commander of Bravo Company of the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit, described him as a "high-value target for the province."
"He appears to be possibly a very important Taliban who we arrested in a cordon and search effort," he told a Reuters reporter accompanying hundreds of Marines, Afghan National Army soldiers and militia forces.
India has said it is ready to provide security in the Malacca Strait, one of the world's busiest sea lanes and a victim of rising high seas piracy. External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh, who is here to attend the Asean plus 3 meetings and the Asean Regional Forum (ARF), was reacting to a request made by the three littoral states - Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia.
They didn't want the U.S. Navy butting in.
Singh said it was in India's national interest to ensure that the Strait remained a crime-free sea lane.
It's in everyone's interest. Plus, it gives India's navy a workout.
"From our side it is affirmative...details can be worked out but in principal yes," Singh told the local Jakarta Post. Singh said such cooperation is not new to India. "We are neighbours. Nicobar island and the northern part of Sumatra are only 80 miles apart.
And your warships off-shore will drive that point home.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/01/2004 9:59:41 AM ||
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Chuck, any imperial designs India has may be nuclear-powered. The Indian navy is circulating a report on a new doctrine for the Indian armed forces, called the nuclear triad - nuclear capability for the navy, army, and air force. A report from Pakistan suggests the three branches of the Indian forces are in a competition to see who can be nuclear-capable first. Any report about India coming from Pakistan has to be taken with a grain of salt, of course, but interestingly that report does not argue that Pakistan is the main object of Indian nuclear ambitions - it points out that India is testing a new missile with a 3500 km range, that would let it deliver a nuke "deep in to China."
Posted by: Patrick Brown ||
07/01/2004 11:24 Comments ||
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Call me crazy but I think that India would make a great regional power. I would rather it be them and not Malaysia, Pakistan, or the PRC. Of course only india has the Navy capable of conducting operation in that area (other than the U.S.).
#4
I think that India patrolling the Straits of Malacca is a great idea. The more we can get dependable nations to do this, and not have us do this is just better for everyone. It takes the fiscal and political heat off the US and the US Navy, makes others take responsibility, and is basically a win-win. Indonesia and Malasia have their own baggage that they are going to have to deal with, and looking around at the candidates, India seems to be the best fit.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/01/2004 15:49 Comments ||
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With China expanding its navy, looking at establishing petrols in outer bands of Pacific islands, and establishing a base of some kind in Pakistan, its eminently logical for India to expand its zone to the straights of Malacca.
1. Natural US role is as balancer. For now, with China stronger, and India closer ideologically, that means leaning towards India.
2. It is probably still in US and global interests to avoid an Indian- Chinese conflict.
In his inimitable fashion, Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf has dropped yet another bomb. Addressing a news conference at the Pakistan Presidential Palace on Wednesday evening, Musharraf said, "I am giving you breaking news that Pakistan will conduct an important nuclear test in the next two months."
They just signed a agreement with India to give advance notice when conducting missile tests. I guess nuke tests are included.
According to Xinhua , Musharraf refused to give further details.
"I can say no more."
However, Pakistan daily The News reported that the 'extremely important substantive test' was most likely a longer range missile test.
So are they going to test a nuke or a delivery system? Inquiring minds want to know.
Musharraf also added that hectic arrangements were already under way.
"Hectic" and "nuclear test" are not words I like to see together.
"Chairman of Nescom Dr Samar, KRL Chairman Javed Mirza as well as PAEC Chairman Pervez Butt are aware of what is going on. Everything is being manufactured," the daily quoted Musharraf as saying. Musharraf also completely ruled out the rolling back of nuclear programme in Pakistan. "Those who think so are just mad, we will never roll back our nuclear programme and would continue developing credible deterrence and missile program," News Network International agency quoted Musharraf as saying. "It has become a joke that people with negative minds are propagating the ill-notions of roll-back," added the President.
Pakistan had conducted five nuclear tests in May 1998, immediately after India carried out similar tests. International concern on the safety of Islamabad's nuclear programme has been on the rise since a scandal, involving the father of the country's nuclear programme, A Q Khan, broke out earlier this year. Khan had confessed to having sold nuclear secrets to Iran, North Korea and Malaysia.
Being a untrustworthy type, my first thought was "Is this a test of a Pak weapon, or a test of a North Korea/Iranian weapon under the cover of a Pak test?" And is it a bomb or a new long-range North Korean missile? Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/01/2004 9:45:41 AM ||
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"This just in: a large flash has been reported from the vicinity of the tribal areas..."
#3
In separate news, DD Sec. Rumsfeld has "hectically" pulled back US troops from the border region of Pak/Afghan. Boys, if you think MOABs/bunker busters were bad, wait til the border goons get a load of a Pak/NKor/Iran nuke.
Posted by: BA ||
07/01/2004 11:12 Comments ||
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Clarification, it's a missle test: Pakistan will not roll back its nuclear weapons program and plans to carry out another missile test within two months, President Pervez Musharraf has said.
In remarks to local journalists on Wednesday, General Musharraf said there was no pressure on Pakistan from the United States to slow atomic arms development, despite a damaging proliferation scandal involving one of its top nuclear scientists. "It is a joke," General Musharraf said, responding to a question about possible US pressure. "We are taking our nuclear program forward. "We will continue to manufacture nuclear (capable) missiles and it will be a madman who accuses me of rolling back the nuclear missile program."
A local news agency admitted Thursday that misinterpretation led to its incorrect report that Pakistan planned to conduct a bomb test. That's why the original story was confused.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/01/2004 11:21 Comments ||
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Okay, makes a lot more sense now.... guess
the ghost of Eddie Teller is still protect the Western World.
#9
Jeeze Louise! The Paks have a death wish. Let's build more dangerous weapons in the middle of seething, eye-rolling, and run-amuk Islamic nutcase types. Yeah, that's the ticket!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/01/2004 16:05 Comments ||
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Pakistan was nearly bankrupt on Sept. 11, 2001, and the Islamofascists were discredited to the point that Seculars were in a position to move against them. So what happened? Billions of US tax dollars were shifted to the terror entity, in exchange for an occasional al-Qaeda arrest. Politically, an Islamofascist political movement - Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal - is a heart beat away from power, and US aid is trickling into the pockets of the jihadis who are attacking American troops in Afghanistan.If Bush had half a brain, he would be working against the Saud/Pak terrorist entities, instead of jumping hoops for America's enemies.
Almost the first action taken by the interim Iraqi prime minister Iyad Allawi on Day One of Iraqi sovereignty, June 29, was to announce that his government would take legal custody of ex-ruler Saddam Hussein and eleven top ousted Baath leaders the following day. Among them, are Saddamâs cousin Ali Majid, known as Chemical Ali. In apparent contradiction to the haste he has shown in getting hold of his deposed predecessors, Allawi announced that many months would elapse before they were brought to trial.
And why is that, pray tell?
The new ruler gave the impression that he was assured and calm enough to hold Saddam under US outer protection for as long as needed in order to properly prepare his trial on war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Sounds reasonable to me
However, according to DEBKAfileâs counter-terror experts, there was more than meets the eye about the instant handover of the deposed president to his newly-sovereign successor and the foot-dragging on his trial. What Allawi did not tell the media is that he aims to keep Saddam and his circle under tight control and on tenterhooks, as hostages of the new regime. Though trained as a neurologist, the new prime minister is no tender plant; he also has an insiderâs knowledge of the enemy. Having joined the Baath underground as a young man and serve in one of Saddamâs security squads, he became disillusioned and fled Iraq in the late 1980s. He then co-founded an exile group with fellow ex-Baathists and worked closely with the American CIA. Allawi, a secular Shiite, is therefore familiar with the inner workings of two intelligence services. Intensely aware of the security concerns weighing down on his administration, the Iraqi prime minister understands full well that both his political future and physical survival depend on his skill in managing the twilight zone in which Iraqi Baath insurgents and their allies collide with the 130,000 American soldiers shoring up his regime.
Agreed
From the moment he assumed office, he became a prime target for assassins. His murder would provide a short cut for the Iraqi Baath and al Qaeda seeking to topple the Iraqi administration provisionally installed to assume sovereignty and shepherd Iraq to a democratic election.
A stepback for Allawi maybe, but somebody else would take his place
Allawi realized he needed some urgent life insurance, an ace in the hole for his survival.
And that is?
What he has done therefore is to gain control of Saddam and his top 11 regime officials as hostages to guarantee his life. The insurgents will be given to understand that violence against the prime minister will be met with the fast trial and execution of a member of Saddamâs âdirty dozen.â It will therefore be in Saddamâs vital interest to keep his successor in good health.
And Sammy is supposed to pass the word on how, exactly? I don't think he gets many phone calls.
As long as the insurgents attack American, British and Iraqi troops, the deposed dictator and his men will languish in prison without trial. This will give the new Iraqi regime a breathing space of âseveral monthsâ to get to grips with the mighty task of bringing security to the country in time for elections, without looking over his shoulder all the time for an assassin.
Ok, this might be a good plan with regards to Saddam's tribal group, but I don't think al-Zarqawi cares if Sammy and his gang swing or not. In fact, I think he'd rather they did. And he is a much bigger danger to Allawi than any Baath party holdouts.
This equation may not quite square with the vision of a great democratic Middle East as presented by US president George W. Bush to Istanbul University students on the shores of the Bosphorus Tuesday, while Awalli was talking in Baghdad about his plans for Saddam. However, given the savagery of the war raging in Iraq now and in the foreseeable future, the new prime ministerâs plan, geared to the top priority of keeping him alive, may be the more realistic.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/01/2004 9:24:08 AM ||
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I don't think even many Baathists want these people free, they are just leadership rivals.
EFL The rise of a secular, democratic Iraq could pose a threat to Iranâs Shiâite clerical establishment, which fears it would serve as a powerful model for moderate Iranians who seek change, clerics said. Is this where one domino topples, strikes the one next to it and ...
Many senior clerics are particularly concerned about any shift in the center of gravity within Shiâite Islam away from Iranâs holy city of Qom, from which clerics wield immense political authority, toward Najaf in neighboring Iraq. The emergence of Najaf coincides with the rise to political prominence of Iraqi clerics, such as Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani, who question the legitimacy of absolute rule by the clergy. They need not worry. According to the partisan media, the chaos in Iraq is out of control and ... "
Now Najaf, as a more moderate center, will regain the place it held for most of the past 1,500 years," said Hadi Qabel, a reformist midranking cleric from Qom. "It will rejuvenate the role of clerics throughout the Shiâite world. ... Iraqi moderate clerics like Ayatollah Ali Sistani do not consider ruling the country as their legitimate right," he said. Sec...ond...Dom..ino.... Getting nervous?
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/01/2004 9:11:10 AM ||
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You don't say . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/01/2004 10:57 Comments ||
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I, for one, don't believe all the BS from the Mullahs that thy are following "God's Law'. I think it is all a matter of lust for power.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/01/2004 11:52 Comments ||
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"The rise of a secular, democratic Iraq could pose a threat to Iranâs Shiâite clerical establishment..."
You mean it's taken al-Reuters until now to figure this out??? On the long list of reasons we went into Iraq, undermining the Black Turbans is right up near the top.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/01/2004 11:52 Comments ||
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#4
Iran Wakes Up; Smells Coffee
Posted by: Chris W. ||
07/01/2004 12:20 Comments ||
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DB, I for one think that much was pretty obvious since the beginning.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/01/2004 12:31 Comments ||
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The fear of freedom is coming through the internet and sat-TV.
The mullahs can not post a monitoring thug in everyone's living room, although they would like to.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 12:34 Comments ||
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Totally radical idea: recently, the Iranian President complained that he and his cabinet have been taken out of the loop on everything nuclear by the Fearless Leader and the conservative mullahs. HOWEVER, there is a faction in their parliament of ultra-conservative *scientists*, as paradoxical as they sound, who are the brains behind nuclear development.
What if these individuals are not as loyal as the conservative clerics think they are? Technocrat-Islamists may not be as servile to their ignorant and uneducated "leaders" as all that.
At best, they might be closet liberals, hoping to evolve a technocracy. At worst, they sound like SPECTRE. What do you get when you mix physics and Islamism?
#9
I was going to post only: "Now Najaf, as a more moderate center, will regain the place it held for most of the past 1,500 years," said Hadi Qabel, a reformist midranking cleric from Qom. "It will rejuvenate the role of clerics throughout the Shiâite world. ... Iraqi moderate clerics like Ayatollah Ali Sistani do not consider ruling the country as their legitimate right," he said," which I thought was real good news (I was going to say).
Then I read (#7): "There is a faction in their (Iran's) parliament of ultra-conservative *scientists*, as paradoxical as they sound, who are the brains behind nuclear development . . . hoping to evolve a technocracy."
#10
Anyone who still remains confused over the fact that Islamic theocracy is purely political and has absolutely nothing to do with religion is in dire need of a clue bat.
The level of internal doctrinal contradiction, elitism and corruption that routinely pervade any of the Islamic governments is proof enough of how they differ not one whit from communist kleptocracies.
A defiant Saddam Hussein rejected charges of war crimes and genocide against him in a court appearance Thursday, telling a judge "this is all theater, the real criminal is Bush," according to a reporter in an official media pool. Saddamâs hands were cuffed when he was brought to the court but the shackles were removed for the 30-minute arraignment at Camp Victory, a former Saddam palace on the outskirts of Baghdad. "I am Saddam Hussein, the president of Iraq," Saddam twice said, according to the CNN reporter, who described him as alternately downcast and defiant. Other times, he appeared confused. In his first public appearance since he was captured seven months ago, Saddam refused to sign a list of charges against him unless a lawyer was present, and he questioned the courtâs jurisdiction, according to the reporter. Saddam defended the invasion of Kuwait, saying it was "for the Iraqi people."
The seven broad charges against Saddam are the killing of religious figures in 1974; gassing of Kurds in Halabja in 1988; killing the Kurdish Barzani clan in 1983; killing members of political parties in the last 30 years; the 1986-88 "Anfal" campaign of displacing Kurds; the suppression of the 1991 uprisings by Kurds and Shiites; and the 1990 invasion of Kuwait. Specific charges will be filed later, Iraqi officials said. Those charges were expected to include war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity. A formal indictment with specific charges is expected later, said Salem Chalabi, director of the Iraqi Special Tribunal. The trial is not expected until 2005. Judge: Let the court reporter please note the defendantâs responses to the charges are:
3 "Screw you"âs
2 "Up yours"
1 "Bite me"
and one "Go hump a camal".
My response to the last is "I would but yo mommaâs dead."
#2
A defiant Saddam Hussein rejected charges of war crimes and genocide against him in a court appearance Thursday, telling a judge "this is all theater, the real criminal is Bush," according to a reporter in an official media pool.
If he keeps this up, he may just lock up Kerry's VP spot.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/01/2004 10:14 Comments ||
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#3
I hear he's getting a prime-time speaking slot for the Dem convention...
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 10:29 Comments ||
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#4
He grew up dirt poor in Tikrit and his father beat him. It's Bushitlers fault along with the increase in homeless and the lack of subsidized cruises for the pali people.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
07/01/2004 12:21 Comments ||
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#6
This guy looks like a couple of my college professors, one of which was a Basilian priest. Who got the high honor of grooming him for his court appearance, do you suppose?
I guess I don't object to the grooming. Except... this style clearly shows him more Westernized than the way he normally looked when he was head thug. Calculated to inspire more sympathy in the West, because he looks more like us? Do we really have an obligation to spiff up a truly evil man for his court hearing?
#7
I think it's perfectly obvious that Saddam was only hours away from allowing full inspections but that stupid chimp cowboy Bush went ahead and unilaterally invaded without permission from the NYT editorial board...
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 14:32 Comments ||
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#9
Calculated to inspire more sympathy in the West, because he looks more like us?
Well, he certainly looks older, and as such, not quite a good candidate for capital punishment. Now if he looked like the original well-shaved Saddam, it would probably be pretty easy to electrocute the guy without batting an eye....
#10
I think this'll be far from a mockery of the law, but I rather suspect the verdict's a foregone conclusion. They'll go through the motions, but I don't think it's possible to find him anything other than guilty. I'm looking forward to the day he's sentenced.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/01/2004 15:09 Comments ||
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#11
Let him rant and rave. It only weakens the LLL case about Saddam being a stable and lovable tyrant. The part about Kuwait turning Iraqi women into whores, Priceless! A couple more ousbursts and a tantrum or two and EVERYONE will agree that deposing this guy was the right thing to do. Kind of like voting for Dean after 'the scream' you still like the guy but maybe he is not quite mentally there. Maybe they can have Baghdad Bob come in and give some expert testimony? That would truely complete the picture!
#12
For anyone who is interested, here is the full text word for word transcript of Uncle Saddam's hearing. He is not so "beaten" as Dan Blather and Comrade Jennings would lead the world to believe. I'll try printing the url as well as the link button, which rarely works for moi because it simply "disappears" the link, but I'll give it a shot again: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124433,00.html
AND
Posted by: rex ||
07/01/2004 16:15 Comments ||
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by Christiane Amanpour, CNN Hot, Airheaded Infobabe Chief International Correspondent. EFL. Saddam reveals himself to be a card-carrying member of International ANSWER, Dictators for Kerry, and the Michael Morre Fan Club.
Saddam Hussein stepped into an Iraqi court on Thursday and entered a new chapter in the countryâs history, facing accusations that included the invasion of Kuwait and the gassing of Kurds. Appearing before a judge in a 30-minute hearing, Saddam looked thin and downcast. When he was ushered into the court, the judge asked him his name and twice he said, "I am Saddam Hussein, the president of Iraq." The judge asked whether he understood his rights and could afford counsel. Saddam pointed his finger at the judge, asking whose jurisdiction the court was under. . . . Saddam challenged the court on his invasion of Kuwait. He kept saying, "How could you say that? I did that for the Iraqi people ... how could you defend these dogs," he said, referring to the Kuwaitis. The judge reprimanded him for his language. "This is all a theater, the real criminal is Bush," Saddam said as he stamped his tiny little feet in impotent rage , during one outburst, referring to the U.S. president. Comments from the left:
"See! See! The whole world hates us âcause of Bush!"
"Wow! I bet he saw Farenheit 9/11 too!"
He also denied the accusation of gassing Kurds at Halabja. "I heard about that on the television reports, saying it happened during the rule of President Saddam Hussein," he told the judge. He refused to sign court documents that said he understood what took place in court, noting that he wanted ice cream and a pony for Christmas his attorney present. No word on whether he threatened to hold his breath and turn blue if his demands were not met.
National Security Adviser Mowaffak al-Rubaie said Iraq has "a long, long, long list of crimes against Saddam Hussein," citing the chemical attacks in Halabja, the execution of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, people killed in mass graves, and the launching of three wars. "These are crimes against humanity, homicide and genocides," he concluded. Months from now, the suspects will be formally indicted. After that, Saddam and his aides will face trial -- all part of a process that that his Jordanian attorney asserts will be illegal and unfair. It will also be humiliating--and end in a richly deserved hanging. Sic semper tyrranis.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/01/2004 8:47:50 AM ||
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#4
He refused to sign court documents that said he understood what took place in court, noting that he wanted his attorney present.
Let's see, what would that behavior have gotten you in Saddam's court? A sarcastic laugh, followed by an enthusiastic flaying, topped off with a dip in the toxic sludge pool, no doubt. He's got some nerve.
Despite Saddam's defiance today, John Burns makes the point that he sounded very much like a broken man. (From memory, he's delivering an oral report right now in Baghdad.)
Posted at 12:56 PM
Posted by: Mike ||
07/01/2004 13:31 Comments ||
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#8
âHe was then taken inside by two imposing Iraqi prison guards, while six other guards waited outside.â This must have blown Iraqi minds--the tyrant forced to submit to the rule of law. : )
"Are you Saddam Hussein?" the judge said. Looking indignantly at the court official he replied: "Yes, Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq."
The judge then repeated "Saddam Hussein al-Majid?" using the former leader's full name.
"Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq," repeated the man in the dock, emphatically. Throughout the hearing he refused being referred to as the "former Iraqi president". And when asked where he lived, Saddam Hussein replied:"I live in every Iraqi house." The âDictator mindsetâ sure is a hard thing to shake.
When he was told that it was Iraqi justice, he mocked the judge and the proceedings. Did he have a law certificate, the accused asked, and since when had he been recognised as a judge - before the occupation of Iraq or afterwards?
"Since the days of the previous regime until now," the judge replied, explaining that the former US-led occupation administration had asked him to hold the trial. Saddam then laughed: "You are trying me by order of the invasion forces. By what law are you trying me?" "I am trying you in accordance with the Iraqi law," the judge said. "Then you are trying my by the law that I enacted," Saddam Hussein replied. "You are trying me by a law that I approved and ratified."Funny thing, that law stuff. Kind of puts everybody on the same plain. Guess he never figured it would ever apply to him.
â . . . the guards were told to take the prisoner away. One of them hesitated, apparently not quite knowing what to do with this man who less than 18 months ago was an all-powerful tyrant who ruled Iraq with a rod of iron. Eventually, he tucked his hands under Saddam Hussein's elbows and led him away. Again: This must have blown Iraqi minds--the tyrant forced to submit to the rule of law. Three years ago, this was unimaginable. : ) Nice warning to the Iranian dictators too!
#9
The judge then repeated "Saddam Hussein al-Majid?" using the former leader's full name.
Should rub it in & use his actual given name instead of the one he assumed later on, i.e. Isdam Husayn al-Awja'i (Isdam is a yokel's/Thug's name, IIRC it means Clasher or Fighter or somesuch & al-Awja was/is a village famed for poverty & mindless violence if Mr Aburish is to be believed.) Might also be an idea to accidentally on purpose forget the Husayn bit as often as possible & remind him of all the allegations about his illegitimacy, oh & maybe go all formal on occasionss & call him Abu Uday so he doesn't forget even for a moment the end of his dynastic ambitions.
Posted by: Dave (UK) ||
07/01/2004 18:14 Comments ||
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#10
Wasn't she the one Col. David Hackworth refers to as Ms. Death?
Posted by: Aussie Mike ||
07/01/2004 23:38 Comments ||
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SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004
MOSCOW â A senior Russian official said Al Qaidaâs alliance with members of the former regime of Saddam Hussein could provide the Islamic movement with access to WMD and other sensitive material. The official said Al Qaida operatives would probably obtain WMD components. "It is obvious that Iraq has really become attractive to all kinds of terrorists, and Al Qaida feels quite comfortable in Iraq," Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Yuriy Fedotov said. "Therefore, the threat that components and materials, which possibly remain in Iraq, can find their way into the hands of international terrorists, is quite high." Fedotov said Al Qaida has developed a significant presence in Iraq in wake of the toppling of the Saddam regime. He said Saddam was not linked to Al Qaida, Middle East Newsline reported. "One can hardly maintain that the former Iraqi regime was linked to Al Qaida," Fedotov told the Interfax news agency on June 24. The Russian official said Russia was concerned by the prospect that WMD remains in Iraq. He did not provide further details.
They're concerned they might show up in a russian subway.
"The task of finally clarifying Iraqâs disarmament dossier remains topical," Fedotov said. The United States has also expressed concern that Al Qaida, particularly Abu Mussib Al Zarqawi, could gain access to what officials said could be an arsenal of hundreds shells filled with sarin or mustard gas. Dozens of such shells have been found by U.S. troops over the last year. "We know just through historical example that these groups have a thirst for weapons of mass destruction," Defense Department spokesman Lawrence di Rita said on June 24. "We knew before the war that Zarqawi was involved in Ansar Al Islam, and Ansar Al Islam was very much involved in the production of at least toxic poisons, if not chemical weapons."
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 4:34:07 AM ||
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#1
Speaking of Russian subways, we in the U.S. have thus far been spared this type of mass murder on public transit resulting from the feds breaking up all attempts to carry out such terrorism by jihadees.
Think of it, in Russia entire apartment complexes have been blown up by jihadists, also passenger trains, and other soft targets.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 10:06 Comments ||
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#2
A senior Russian official said Al Qaidaâs alliance with members of the former regime of Saddam Hussein could provide the Islamic movement with access to WMD and other sensitive material.
How so? Saddam supposedly disposed of all his WMDs!..........Right?
Pakistani security agencies are interrogating three Iraqis arrested this week for suspected links to terror groups, officials said on Thursday. The three were picked up from a house in the Islamabad suburb of Bara Kaho on Monday by a special unit of the Federal Investigation Agency, a security official said. âTheir names do not appear on any list of wanted terrorists but we have suspicions that they may be connected to local or foreign terror groups,â the official told AFP. Two pistols, 140 rounds of bullets and some documents in Arabic language were recovered from their possession, he said. Preliminary investigations showed that the suspects had entered Pakistan via Iran four years ago and had been moving from one place to another across the country, the official said.
Wonder how they were supporting themselves?
They're simple men, with simple needs.
(holds up sign) "Will Jihad for Food"
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 8:35:43 AM ||
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This comes from The Federalist Patriot Alert
>From a Marine officer on the Iraqi warfront with Jihadistan...
(This is an open letter to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, "Islamic Response," and the rest of the so-called al-Qaâida "insurgents" in Iraq and elsewhere. We donât have an e-mail address for these swine -- though we are closing in on their snail-mail address, but we are forwarding this letter to Federalist Patriots around the world in the hope you good people will forward it to as many other Patriots as possible to rally prayer and support for our fellow Marine, Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassoun. Should these al-Qaâida pigs spill his blood, we want them to rest assured that the contents of this letter will eventually be nailed to their foreheads. Thank you for your assistance.)
To al-Qaâida terrorists in Iraq:
I see that you have captured a U.S. Marine, and that you plan to cut off his head if your demands are not met. Big mistake. Before you carry out your threat I suggest you read up on Marine Corps history. The Japanese tried the same thing on Makin Island and in a few other places during World War Two, and came to regret it. Go ahead and read about what then happened to the mighty Imperial Army on Tarawa, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. They paid full price for what they did, and you will too.
You look at America and you see a soft target, and to a large extent you are right. Our country is filled with a lot of spoiled children who drive BMWs, sip decaf lattes and watch ridiculous reality TV shows. They are for the most part decent, hard working citizens, but they are soft. When you cut off Nick Bergâs head those people gasped, and you got the media coverage you sought, and then those people went back to their lives. This time it is different. We also have a warrior culture in this country, and they are called Marines. It is a brotherhood forged in the fire of many wars, and the bond between us is stronger than blood. While it is true that this country has produced nitwits like John Kerry, Michael Moore, Howard Dean and Jane Fonda who can be easily manipulated by your gruesome tactics, we have also produced men like Jason Dunham, Brian Chontosh and Joseph Perez. If you donât recognize those names you should. They are all Marines who distinguished themselves fighting to liberate Iraq, and there will be many more just like them coming for you.
Before the current politically correct climate enveloped our culture one of the recruiting slogans of our band of brothers was "The Marine Corps Builds Men." You will soon find out just how true that is. You, on the other hand, are nothing but a bunch of women. If you were men you would show your faces, and take us on in a fair fight. Instead, you are cowards who hide behind masks and decapitate helpless victims. If you truly represented the interest of the Iraqi people you would not be ambushing those who come to your country to repair your power plants, or sabotage the oil pipelines which fuel the Iraqi economy. Your agenda is hate, plain and simple.
When you raise that sword over your head I want you to remember one thing. Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun is not alone as he kneels before you. Every Marine who has ever worn the uniform is there with him, and when you strike him you are striking all of us. If you think the Marines were tough on you when they were cleaning out Fallujah a few weeks ago you havenât seen anything yet. If you want to know what it feels like to have the Wrath of God called down upon you then go ahead and do it. We are not Turkish truck drivers, or Pakistani laborers, or independent contractors hoping to find work in your country. We are the United States Marines, and we will be coming for you.
Posted by: Jack Bross ||
07/01/2004 4:27:49 AM ||
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#1
We are the United States Marines, and we will be coming for you.
#3
As much as I want the Marines to kick ass I doubt they will be given the chance. I can see the PC idiots saying it is bad PR after we've turned over power.
Hopefully though, I'll be proven wrong.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
07/01/2004 10:37 Comments ||
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#4
I agree with Sam. If they were allowed to conduct operations that make sense, Iraq would be peacful today. I doubt that Bush or any politician would authorize any large-scale operations in Iraq at this time. I may be wrong and God I hope/pray that I am, but I think they will just fade away from the hotspots and leave the badguys in place.
#5
disagree - Allawi's not one to pussyfoot around Fallujah - I can see the martial law decrees asking for Marine help to enforce...
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 10:53 Comments ||
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#6
meh, I don't like this letter, USA is not a soft target, we proved that on 9/11 when our 'softies' said "lets roll"
just because we LIKE our BMWs doesn't mean we won't use them to run over a couple gunnies if the opportunity presents itself
#9
Sorry DC, the USA does have more 'soft' folks today then ever in its history.
In the eyes of most Marines, a lot of civilians are seen as materialistic, petty, rude, fat, unkempt, & slobbish. Hence the BMW/reality t.v. swipe. Everytime I'm home on leave I try to remind myself not to be too judgemental when walking through any mall, airport, or on the city street. When most of the country is fat/obese and more people know who got drummed out of the tribe last night on survivor then who is the V.P., then yeah, I'd say that's pretty weak/lame. This officer is just stating a widely held belief in the Corps that many civilians have a false sense of entitlement - this is pretty universal among warrior cultures no matter it be Marines, Spec Ops, Seals, etc. No offense should be taken in the RB forum by anyone, I think most of y'all are damn fine American citizens.
BTW - Flight 93 did have some exceptional individuals on it. IIRC, Beamer was some sort of exceptional athlete (wrestler?) & a few other folks on there were pretty tough as well.
#12
Raj is on the right track. We understand the arab mindset better then our more sophisticated politicians - goad them into fighting & making a mistake. The arab will still hate us, but they will grudgeingly respect us and they also love theatrical speech. Insult the heck out of them, call them women, (no offense to our lady posters) sissy boys or goat f*ckers enough times and they will come out into the open. Their shame culture will ensure that.
#14
Good t'see ya back Jarhead. Frank G makes a point I've been thinkin' on - if Allawi orders the crushing of the Fallujah resistence by all available forces, would that be enough cover? I'm thinkin' it would.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
07/01/2004 14:58 Comments ||
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#15
Good to be back Rex. I believe Allawi knows what Fallujah needs. I think there's a good chance he declares martial law in the triangle and we start aiding the IDC in making that happen. At least that's what I hope happens.
#16
Jarhead, I agree that Allawi seems tobe ready to do this right. Actually, this will probably work for the betterment of Iraq is Allawi is the one to give Fallujah the treatment. Had we taken care of all the tough problems, I don't think the result would have been as good. Everytime we slap the bad actors around, the Iraqis are partially embarassed. They could potentially be a potent ally in the work we have remaining in the neighborhood. I think a decisive military victory by a free and democratic Arab force might act as a dose of Viagra that might help in toppling the Baathists and Mullahs next door.
I also want the Iraqis to end up holding a gross of living and screaming Syrians and Iranians.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/01/2004 23:59 Comments ||
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#17
"holding a gross of living and screaming Syrians and Iranians"
Those would be some very short "trials" methinks...
#18
MHW, the open letter is not intended to change the behaviour of Zarqawi. The letter is intended to change the morale of those Americans that are "recoverable" - i.e. people that don't want Michael Moore to autograph their copy of Bowling for Columbine. The letter is a bugle call for real patriots to take heart. It will work nicely if our response to the next decapitation is swift sure and decisive.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 0:05 Comments ||
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Terrorists in the Abu Musab Zarqawi network in Iraq are specifically trying to kidnap an American female service member to further piss off horrify the U.S. public. Are the men proving a little tough for ya Nancy?
Two senior defense sources said the word is being passed within the network on the importance of taking one or more women hostage. "We have heard through intelligence channels that several extremist organizations are attempting to capture coalition servicemen and women," said a senior military officer in Iraq. "We have instituted additional force protection methods to thwart these attempts." Another defense source said there is an "edict, either on paper or as an order," within terrorist networks to capture an American female service member. Iâm suprised it took them so long to get around to this.
Of the 140,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 11,000 are women. They perform a variety of jobs, serving as drivers, medics, aviators, police and clerks. By law, they are banned from land combat, but they can still come into close contact with the enemy. Zarqawi is the most wanted man in Iraq, with a $10 $25 million U.S. reward for his capture or death. Wish I knew where he was, Iâd kill him for free.
The Jordanian-born international terrorist has made killing Americans and their allies his chief goal as a way to prevent Iraq from moving to a moderate democratic state. He beheaded American Nicholas Berg, and his network released the video for the world to see. Militants are holding an Army soldier and a Marine, and have kidnapped many aid workers and contractors from coalition countries. Some have been killed. The defense source said Zarqawiâs network apparently wants to further shock the Western world by kidnapping servicewomen and displaying them on videotape. Part of the terroristsâ strategy is to cause so much bloodshed that President Bush loses public support for the war and is forced politically to bring the troops home. That tactic might work better if Kerry were CIC. Besides Bush takes a pretty steady pounding already, but there isnât any marching in the streets except by a few loons.
If they push their luck hard enough, he'll be forced politically to carpet bomb their sorry Islamic asses...
The source also said that the terrorists might be planning "payback" for a U.S. female soldier seen taking part in the abuse of Iraqi inmates at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. These guys have more issues than National Geographic.
The Arab world has seen a series of photos of the abuse, so what?
including Army Pfc. Lynndie England holding an Iraqi inmate by a leash attached to his neck. The Army has filed criminal charges against her.
I believe there's also a video of her getting pregnant. Maybe al-Jizz should show that, too?
The U.S. military is taking extra precautions to ensure that no more Americans are taken hostage. Convoys move from base to base with heavy security. Soldiers on patrol stay in regular contact with headquarters. During the war to topple Saddam Hussein, Iraqis ambushed the 507th Maintenance Company and took three female soldiers prisoner. Pfcs. Shoshana Johnson and Jessica Lynch were rescued. Pfc. Lori Ann Piestewa died in captivity. During the 1991 Persian Gulf war, Maj. Rhonda Cornum, a flight surgeon, was captured by Iraqis after her Black Hawk helicopter was shot down while on a rescue mission. Maj. Cornum, who suffered broken bones, was held eight days and sexually abused by her captors. If they snag an American female and harm her in anyway, it will only reinforce perception of those animals as fanatic savages. The Kumbaya crowd (including the media) will beat us about the head and shoulders for weeks on end about how a flawed policy has cost this young woman her life, and convienantly ignore the fact that it was a delusional Islamist wack job listening to the moongod that was the real cause.
Posted by: JerseyMike ||
07/01/2004 7:41:58 AM ||
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#1
I wouldn't do that if I were they. NOW is sure to stage a significant protest. On the Mall. Maybe three or four hundred womyn will show up. Wonder if the protest will be against the kidnappers or the usual list of NOW targets.
#2
I believe there's also a video of her getting pregnant
why do I visualize her smoking a cig during sex?
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 10:38 Comments ||
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#3
I remember reading an article last year by--- I think Ralph Peters, although it may have been another analyst with a military/tactical background-- speculating on what tactics Osama Bin Laden (or a Bin Laden type) could use to destroy an American will to fight, and to isolate America, internationally. The rape and mutilation of servicewomen was suggested, as was nuking their own city and blaming us. I thought at the time that deliberatly targeting servicewomen would be more liable to outrage than demoralize Americans, especially those with a Jacksonian inclination.
And I was talking to my daughter, who is currently serving as a Marine (she was in Kuwait and Iraq last year) about the Marine currently being held hostage in Iraq. From a remark which she made about how they all knew it was best to not be captured alive, I assume that the servicewomen over there have already been briefed on this possibility. Zarqawi's thugs may find actually following through on this plan to be something else. While she was in-country, my daughter had her M-16 within reach and a number of knives on her person at all times, not to mention some interesting martial arts qualifications. I am assured this was not atypical for WMs.
#4
Thank her for her service, Sgt. Mom!
We're praying extra hard for she and all our other ladies serving over there, as well as all of our troops regardless of sex.
Zarqawi is scum and if they do capture a lady GI and do something to her (God forbid it's beheading), the outrage will be unreal.
Come and get some, Islamoslumbags!
Posted by: Jen ||
07/01/2004 13:46 Comments ||
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#5
The source also said that the terrorists might be planning "payback" for a U.S. female soldier seen taking part in the abuse of Iraqi inmates at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.
That's assuming a lot-like proportionality being one of their considerations. Why do I get the feeling that tit for tat isn't their way? Whatever we "did" (still not sure how much torture, rather than humiliation, has been substantiated), they will set the bar for 20 twenty times worse. If our abuse involved intimidation and humiliation through leashes and dogs, theirs would involve physical injuries/death and sex with dogs.
#6
They perform a variety of jobs, serving as drivers, medics, aviators, police and clerks.
Though I thank you for your daughter serving in the military,#3, I think the risk of service women being captured by terrorists is 10 times less than one of our male GI's being captured and brutalized, quite frankly. That's probably why Zarqawi did not try capture of a female earlier, as one of the posters questioned - ie. reduced opportunity. Also, the Arab culture puts less value on women than men, so what they view as a trophy is a male hostage.
But it's good that service women are well armed nonetheless and that they stay alert and aware of their surroundings.
As for our great concern about "rape" of women, as I've said before, men are at equal risk to "rape" in the hands of Muslim extremists...just ask the Russian former POW's in the Afghan War. It's our Western deep seated fear about females being raped that is in play now and of course, Zarqawi appears to have figured out that fear and is threatening to capitalize on it.
That 2 American women were raped at the hands of Iraqis in the 2 Gulf Wars does not exactly demonstrate that these extremists are hell bent to brutalize American women. I have the impression that Arabs don't have much use for Western women, they just view them as hookers. Given the choice, I would guess that Zarqawi's guys would still love to brutalize a male GI more-anal rape, beheading, genital mutilation-there is where their fun lies. Once again, ask former Russian PoW's.
Postscript: I'm not trying to diminish the fear females hold about rape or the anguish of rape victims. I'm just trying to add some realism to the discussion about who is at greater risk for being "brutalized" by Muslim terrorist wackos.
Posted by: rex ||
07/01/2004 14:36 Comments ||
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#7
rex, I believe the Koran says that if Muslims capture the infidel's women, they can do with them "as they wish" and make them (sex) slaves.
I haven't heard from our male soldiers in Iraqi custody being as sexually abused as the lady GIs although I wouldn't put it past the horny scum to screw anything.
It's clear that Muslims (and Arabs) treat women only a little better than dogs.
What Zarqawi is counting on here is the way Western and American culture respect women, either as equals or even worse, as "delicate flowers" that must be protected by chivalrous men.
One of the visuals I can't get out of my head are the stewardesses whose throats were cut on the hijacked planes on 9/11--I know this is how the killers got the pilots to leave the controls and come out of the cabin to rescue them.
God rest their souls.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/01/2004 14:47 Comments ||
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#8
What Zarqawi is counting on here is the way Western and American culture respect women, either as equals or even worse, as "delicate flowers" that must be protected by chivalrous men.
Aha, a red letter day, we have finally reached agreement on something, Jen! You are absolutely right. The greatest risk to our troops vis-a-vis the rumor that Zarqawi wants to kidnap a service woman is that male GI's will put their lives at greater risk trying to prevent danger to females.
That's the only argument I have ever heard put forward re: not having females in combat zones ie. that it would put our male troops at greater risk due to their Western upbringing that impressed upon them that females are the fairer sex who must be protected at all cost. With regards to lacking "warrior" mentality and upper body strength, those arguments never held any water to my mind.
Posted by: rex ||
07/01/2004 15:32 Comments ||
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#9
Rex, you are right that these 'people' would bugger a man just as easily as a women. However they would like NOTHING else than to take a western woman and do with as hey please. Many times the Paleos tried to capture female Jewish soldiers, but like our they are kept close at hand. Since they rape their own sisters and daughters I can't imagine them NOT raping a U.S. or UK woman if the oppurtunity arose. If you ever get a chance to read the story about Maj. Cornum do so.
#10
That's the only argument I have ever heard put forward re: not having females in combat zones
Just as an aside, the Israelis found that Arab forces who would normally have surrendered or withdrew, actually fought harder (and to the point of being wiped out)when the IDF had women in front-line combat units.
#11
Maybe we can spook Zarqawi and his womenfolk into a mistake in Fallujah by carpet bombing it. But not with bombs. Do it at night, with the B-52's up high enough you can't hear them and let the rain of pigs begin. I'd imagine the most militant muslim might freak out when a pig falling from 40,000 feet plunges through his roof.
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:32 Comments ||
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#16
So, we are back to this piggery again, Rantburgers... Now really HOW freaked out are Islamist terrorists of pig parts if confronted with them? I mean, can you hold some intestines around and walk down the street and the terrorists run like scared chickens? Can you shoot a pig blood artillery round and spray everyone with pig blood and have instant chaos? What is the real scoop here on Pigs and the Islamists? Inquiring minds want to know. **going down to the store for a pork chop run**
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/01/2004 23:35 Comments ||
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#17
Ever heard frightened pigs? I used to play golf very very early on weekends (ahead of the crush) on a cheap but nice public course. About 3-4 miles away was an Owens Sausage slaughtering facility. Wafting over the still moist morning air this sound arrived in faint waves. Fucking stand you hair on end, bro. Lol!
#19
Even if they don't freak at the mere sight of pig blood, I'm pretty sure Rain of Pig would freak anyone out when it happens at 4am. It also tells them that we could have used bombs instead and while looking at impacted piggy might be nasty, if it'd been a bomb, it'd be them sprayed on the walls instead.
#20
More humane and humiliating version of this would be a high altitude drop of 40 - 50 tons of pig feces on Fallujah. Accompanied by a leaflet drop explaining in great detail what the earlier drop was. Rinse and repeat until message is understood.
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:42 Comments ||
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#22
I appreciate that the "rape" issue is a sensitive one for many Americans, but I don't see it as a reason to keep women out of combat. While these guys are allowed to run free, armed women within a military unit are safer than civilian women. When dealing with AQ, I would expect that they would target American women servicemen in Bahrain, Qatar, or Turkey before they tried to kidnap one in an Iraq where the ROE favors the American forces.
Philosophically, the whole point of having soldiers in combat, at all, is to protect helpless civilians. Mandating that all women should be forced to remain helpless until the fight comes to them in the states is not the way to go. If a woman feels called to the military than teach her to kill.
Regardless, the jihadis are very unlikely to capture anyone in combat, as they are cowards not warriors. Jeffery Dahmer was never noted for his courage, yet he might have been a cut above these guys as he stalked alone. Like hyenas these dogs hunt in packs.
Realistically, I find it unlikely that they will seriously attempt to kidnap women in uniform, as the attempt would mean taking on an operation against an American military unit. Women in uniform - anywhere overseas - need to be armed, proficient and cognizant of the hazard. For all Americans abroad, I recommend sobriety for the near term, and immature kids should vacation in CONUS.
I predict that a woman, careless or ignorant of security, from a Western NGO will be grabbed.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/01/2004 23:46 Comments ||
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#23
please let it be an ISM tool in Palestine if anybody ...
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/01/2004 23:47 Comments ||
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#24
Frank - Ah there's that The Islamic Ironyâ¢! again! Lol! You're definitely onto something!
SH - I have incredibly mixed feeling about wymyn in combat - and I'm not talking about their ability to fight or spirit, I've known several that could wipe us all out - and barely break a sweat. But I'll admit that to have one taken would make me feel far more offended and insanely vengeful. And I don't think I'm alone in that line of thought.
#25
Someone could certainly make a convincing argument against my current view (I try to be open to being convinced.) Here are some reasons why I am for women in combat, currently:
1. Once they started beheading people on camera for the benefit of Qatari sweeps week, I am pegged my outrage meter. I consider a sexual assault more survivable for a male or female than some other non-lethal possibilities. For instance, jihadis own car battery and some seem to have and interest in checking the electrical resistance of a captive's genitalia.
2. I supervised a fine group of Operations Specialists on a destroyer tender who had been herded like 2nd class citizens onto a ship where their specialty was irrelevant.
It is my opinion once everyone wearing the uniform of the USN adopts a warrior mentality, we will have the best navy possible. This cannot be achieved when a class of non-warriors is mandated. This belief became more important to me when I looked at the results of an ambush of an army maintenance company. Note: For implementation it might be better to take the Dentists out of their officer monkey suits and put them in civilian clothes.
3. I see some problems in our society that would be improved by a cadre of tough, smart disciplined and self-assured women.
4. The strong negative reaction that the idea of women soldiers gets from Arab males is a sign to me that the idea must be good. Culturally, I understand the concept of the head covering reserving a woman's beauty for the family, but I'm not buying the polygamy, honor-killings, total lack of female property rights.... in the whole Arabist exported version of Islam. A good dose of Pershmerga women with guns should be healthy for Iraq. I hope that one of them catches Zarqawi and has an SUV handy - with jumper cables - if you know what I mean.
BTW I open doors for men and women, but I have not figured out what to do in the case fo a transvestite. Any advice?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/02/2004 3:00 Comments ||
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#26
The jihadists better find a new public relations man, since murdering female hostages on international TV does not increase ratings, it serves only to awaken those still asleep concerning the truth beast like nature of the Islamic terrorist enemy.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/02/2004 3:15 Comments ||
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Four people are now known to have died from twin bomb explosions on Wednesday in the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad. Three more people died overnight after one person was killed and at least 25 were injured - including children - when the bombs went off. Taleban rebels have denied carrying out the attack, blaming it on rivalry between armed groups in Jalalabad. The two bombs were hidden in crates of vegetables and exploded within minutes of each other on Wednesday. It was unclear whether the three people who died overnight were police or civilians. The 27 first reported injured included five children and five police officers. Reports say the bombs were aimed at police checkpoints. Police official, Abdur Rahman, said the blasts took place in the busy Talashi Chowk district near the police posts. Mr Rahman blamed "enemies of Afghanistan" for the explosions and singled out the Taleban and al-Qaeda. But the Taleban denied carrying out the attacks.
"Nope. Nope. Wudn't us."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/01/2004 8:31:53 AM ||
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EFL - I posted this because I find his remarks and demeanor inconsistent with someone who is supposedly marginalized, disgruntled and on his way out. His remarks read to me as those of a man who intends to see the Korean and Dafur crisi through to the end. I think he remains an excellent man for this job. I find it continually of interest that the State Department seems to be acting to finesse with "soft power" situations that allow the Administration to focus our "hard power" on UBL, Assad, and the Mullahs.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, are you coming with a stern message for the Sudanese, that they would face economic sanctions, investment sanctions, not just freezing of assets or visa restrictions, but something really tough if they donât allow humanitarian aid in and help these people?
SECRETARY POWELL: I hope to give them a very direct message about how the United States and the international community sees the horrific situation that exists in Darfur and that we have discussed this with them previously. We were instrumental in putting in place the early April ceasefire and everything that was laid out in that NâDjamena Accord is what we expect to see. And we need to see action promptly, because people are dying and the death rate is going to go up significantly over the next several months.
Iâll go through what I hope to see them do with respect to ending support for the Jingaweit, but doing more than ending support--actually bringing them under control--and the need to start a political process with the rebel groups so that we donât get right back into the cycle of it all breaking out again; the need to allow full access of the humanitarian effort that is underway and the workers that are there, to include visas, everything else that is needed to speed up the delivery of supplies; the need to work with the monitoring group that is headed by the AU and has EU and other representatives within it; the whole range of issues.
And I will make the clear point that this will affect what we are able to do, under the North-South work that weâve been doing, the Lake Naivasha Accords that we worked so hard on and showed so much promise for a better future relationship with Sudan. But, unless we resolve the Darfur situation and do it quickly, all that is put at risk.
QUESTION: What about UN Security Council action?
SECRETARY POWELL: Weâll also let them know that we are in discussions on specific language with some of our UN Security Council colleagues. And this is, of course, something I will have a chance to discuss with Kofi Annan tomorrow afternoon, as well.
QUESTION: What is your feeling about the nature of the response so far from the rest of the international community in terms of humanitarian support and political pressure?
SECRETARY POWELL: The humanitarian support is there, in the sense that there are food stocks, stocks (inaudible). Andrew has been sending in a lot of material. There are long-haul trucks available.
We have been working with the Libyans and they have shown the willingness to open another route that will be a better route than the two coming in from the east. And the Libyans have been very open on that and weâre going to do that.
Money is available. Weâve spent something like [$116 million] over the last year or so and Congress, in the current supplemental, both on the Senate side and the House side, look like theyâre putting in another $90 million.
So, the resources are there. Time is of the essence and action is of the essence. Theyâve got to act now because we are running out of time. And the demographics are such and we have learned from people who are experts in these matters, and Andrew can talk more about it, that some of these people have been condemned to death already. They will die in August and September. And there is nothing we can do to stop it. So, we have got to act now, not later. We cantâ talk. We have to see action. And that will be the message I will give to them.
But there is a great deal in increasing support from the international community; that is why Kofi Annan is here. I spoke with Hilary Benn, the British Minister who is responsible for these matters, yesterday and I think everybody realizes the nature of the catastrophe that is on our hands.
QUESTION: When we talk about the consequences that you are prepared to lay out with the Sudanese leadership, you say that if the Naivasha Accords are put on hold, the kind of benefits they would get from that. Are there any other consequences, such as UN sanctions, that you are prepared to say to them, âlook, this is what we are going to put on the table if you donât do them?â
SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, but Iâd prefer to discuss that with them first.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, are you concerned that the Sudanese government might may try to show you people tomorrow who are not exactly representative of the crisis as a whole?
SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, Iâve been to places like this before and I know what can be arranged. But, Iâm not going in as, on an interview mission or as grand jury, Iâm going to see, and I will take into account everything I hear. I think I can sort out where people are constrained from speaking.
We have been watching these places very carefully through a variety of means and we know what they look like, how many people have been there in the past and if suddenly there arenât that many people there tomorrow, I will take that all into my computer.
-snip- sidetalk
SECRETARY POWELL: I think we are getting the worldâs attention. Itâs not as if we havenât been doing a lot. The United States has been in the forefront on this for a long time; Andrew especially has made this a passion of his. And we have gotten the Secretary General and our colleagues in the Security Council, at least, now energized. But sometimes people have to see it, they have to read about it, they have to see it on television and they will see more of it on television tomorrow, I hope. And you have got to touch their consciences; you have got to touch their emotions. And so, thatâs what I hope is happening with Congressman Wolfâs visit, with Senator Brownback, who has been such a leader in this, as has Congressman Wolf, with Kofiâs visit and a number of other ministers who are now going in.
So, I want to bring attention to this, so not only do we bring it directly to the attention of the Sudanese leaders again in a direct way, but I think by going out and seeing these camps, meeting with Kofi will elevate it. Unless it gets that kind of elevation there are just so many other things going on in the world that tend not to make it as newsworthy as it should be. Because no matter what else is going on in the world today, as you heard me say before: 8,000 people died today of AIDS and thousands of people have been consigned to their death in Darfur. But, it doesnât always make page one of a newspaper or the first two minutes of the evening news.
QUESTION: Tell us what you will tell the Sudanese leaders about the genocide determination that is being made by your government and what it will mean? And also, if you can tell us what your position is on getting a peacekeeping force in Darfur?
SECRETARY POWELL: The issue of genocide is a legal determination and my counsel, Will Taft, as well as Pierre Prosper, who you all know, are examining this carefully. Ambassador Prosper testified last week that we see indicators and elements that would start to move you toward a genocidal conclusion. But, weâre not there yet. And, frankly, I hope we donât get there.
Whether you call it genocide or whether somebody prefers to call it ethnic cleansing or some people think, as a technical matter, it doesnât reach the level of either ethnic cleansing or genocide. I will let Ambassador Prosper and all the lawyers argue about that. What we are seeing is a disaster, a catastrophe, and we can find the right label for it later. Weâve got to deal with it now. Thatâs my focus.
With respect to peacekeeping forces, there is analysis underway with us and the UN peacekeeping office. But we really have to take a hard look at this and the size of the area, the difficulty of operating in this area and where one would find a significant number of forces to go into the area would be very problematic. And therefore the better answer is to have the Sudanese government take control of these militias, the Jingaweit, all other who are out there and I think that they have the capacity to do that and we want to encourage them to have the will to do it and to do it right away.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, if you want television, you can make that happen and Charlie can explain better than I how, because there are logistical problems here. How much responsibility does the US bear for this, by being distracted by the April accords and the attempt to reach them, and not paying attention, or as much attention, to what was happening in Darfur?
SECRETARY POWELL: Iâm sorry, I just reject that. I have been watching this day-by-day. I have, if you want to do a Lexis-Nexis, Iâve been speaking out on this directlyâso has the President. And Andrew, who works for me, has been deeply involved in itâso is Mike Rannenberger, back there, who is my assistant for this. We have been working hard on this. Weâve been performing a leadership role with respect to the April accords, trying to get them implemented, trying to get the government moving. In every conversation that I have had with the Vice President, Taha, or Foreign Minister Ismail or President Bashir, on Lake Naivasha we also talked about Darfur and how that would affect it.
So, I regret that we didnât get the kind of response that I think we should have gotten at that time, but it is not because the United States was distracted. There are many things on our plate and I donât have the luxury in my daily life of being distracted. They are all there, whether it is North Korea, what we are going to be doing in Indonesia for the next two days, Darfur or what we did in Ireland, Ankara and Istanbul over the last several days. And in Iraq. And in Afghanistan.
-snip-
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, apart from Libya showing a willingness to open up a new path into the region, are there other African countries that have volunteered to contribute forces or resources?
SECRETARY POWELL: I donât know of any African countries contributing forces other than what the African Union is doing with the monitoring group. Andrew? No. Michael?
-snip-
I think this is an important visit because of who Colin Powell is. I donât know whether Clinton sent Allbright for a looksee into Rwanda when things were ugly, but I doubt that teh effect would be the same anyway.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/01/2004 3:34:45 AM ||
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#1
This is one of Powell's finest hours. Move over Kofi, you've been outflanked by a warrior diplomat.
Posted by: Capt America ||
07/01/2004 17:12 Comments ||
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OKOROTA, Middle-of-flipping-nowhere, Nigeria (AP) - Admirers call him Africa's Robin Hood of oil. Nigerian authorities call him an outlaw in the mold of Al Capone. Leading gunmen who worship a god of war, Alhaji Dokubo-Asari is trying to wrest the oil-rich Niger Delta away from multinational oil giants and the government - and put it into the hands of "the people." Although it's difficult to determine the strength of Dokubo-Asari's movement in the eastern delta, an Associated Press visit found the warlord leading a more organized campaign than previously realized. Dozens of his fighters, armed with AK-47 assault rifles, control the ruins of several towns and villages outside the key oil city of Port Harcourt.
Controlling ruins, there's a sure path to success.
It's often what happens when they're put into the hands of "the people."
Interesting how "the people" always turns into a dictatorship
"This is a broad-based armed struggle. If I die tomorrow, someone will take my place," said Dokubo-Asari, who says his heroes include South African anti-apartheid leader Nelson Mandela and al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden.
I don't know, let's find out.
A 40-year-old who converted to Islam as a university student, Dokubo-Asari commands an ethnically diverse mix of fighters who chiefly worship Allan Egbesu, the traditional god of war for Islamist fools ethnic Ijaw. Security analysts increasingly compare the scale of violence in the delta to Chechnya and Colombia. Militants from various ethnic groups and gangs of thugs roam much of the Scotland-sized delta, laying siege to oil pipelines, drilling rigs and export shipping terminals. They also fight soldiers and each other, often from speedboats mounted with automatic weapons.
Water-borne technicals.
Wonder where the money comes from? Speed boats aren't free...
Oil companies insist Dokubo-Asari's eastern-based campaign has yet to affect production. The impact has been in the west, where ethnic leaders battle for shares of the oil wealth. Dokubo-Asari is alone among the delta's faction leaders in openly challenging the government in Abuja led by President Olusegun Obasanjo, a retired general whose 1999 election ended 15 years of military rule. He, and others in the delta, accuse Obasanjo's government of rigging the president's 2003 re-election, squandering the country's $20 billion in annual oil revenues, and doing little for the people of the oil region.
"Why does he get to squander it? We want to squander it!"
Dokubo-Asari boasted of killing police and sailors - "in self-defense." It's an unusually brazen claim in Africa's most populous nation. Twice, in 1999 and 2001, the army killed hundreds of villagers in apparent retaliation for slayings of police by militants. Dokubo-Asari is idolized by some delta residents, who harbor bitter resentment toward Nigeria's government for the slow pace of development in oil-rich areas. Paved roads, electricity, running water, schools and hospitals remain scarce. "You can say he is like Robin Hood," said Angela Dickson, now living in Port Harcourt after fleeing the fighting. "Our own government is corrupt and they hate us." Dokubo-Asari said he admires terror leader bin Laden for fighting "on behalf of all Muslims," but insisted he is not fighting a religious war and never targets civilians.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
His opponents - including the government - brand Dokuko-Asari a mere thug who enriches himself through armed robbery and oil theft, forging self-serving alliances with other warlords and local politicians. Some people accuse his forces of summarily killing critics, including civilians who dared to speak out. "Think of Al Capone. It is no different," said Magnus Abe, information commissioner for Nigeria's Rivers state. Government officials say Dokubo-Asari finances his fighters by tapping oil pipelines to steal crude for sale locally and abroad. The practice, known as "bunkering," results in countrywide losses as high as 100,000 barrels a day, or about 5 percent of Nigeria's production. While defending bunkering by poor residents as morally "legitimate," Dokubo-Asari denied doing it. He said he sustains his movement with earnings from a "small oil refinery" run by his men.
Supplied with bunkered oil.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/01/2004 1:27:49 AM ||
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#1
Savages killing each other.
Add modern technology and a worldwide economy for oil, slaves, aphrodisiacs--you name it--and you still get: savages killing each other.
Somehow, I'm not sure Islam always makes a whole lot of difference in terms of the importance of what happens in the darkest depts of Africa. Worshipping Alla(n) through the local incarnation of a war god makes it all the weirder and more kooky.
#2
Why is it that the majority of OPEC nations, such as Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Venezuela ..etc are always involved in some of the worst geostrategic dilemmas in the dawning of the 21st century?
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 3:42 Comments ||
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#3
It's almost as if someone's spending money to destabilize a lot of the oil-producing areas. (Oh, and you can add Chechnya, Columbia, and Bolivia to the list).
Naaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh, that's just too paranoid...
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
07/01/2004 13:14 Comments ||
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The U.S. military launched another airstrike early Thursday against a suspected hideout of terrorist mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Fallujah. It was the fourth attack in a month against insurgency targets in the city. The raid came hours after rebels fired mortar rounds at a U.S. base on the outskirts of Baghdad's airport, wounding 11 soldiers and starting a fire that burned for over an hour. That attack, along with a car bomb that exploded outside a police headquarters in Samawah, 150 miles south of the capital, added to the evidence that insurgents have no plans of letting up attacks - even after U.S. coalition authorities handed over sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government on Monday.
Fallujah residents contacted by telephone said U.S. jets fired missiles at a house on the eastern side of the city. Dr. Loai Ali of the Fallujah General Hospital said four people were killed and 10 injured. Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy operations director for the multinational force, said the attack was launched after "multiple confirmations of Iraqi and multinational intelligence. This operation employed precision weapons to attack the safe house and underscores the resolve of multinational and Iraqi security forces to jointly destroy terrorist networks within Iraq." Kimmitt did not mention casualties or provide other details in his statement.
Sooner or later we get lucky. No, not OUR Lucky.
I haven't seen any claims that all the victims were women and children and fluffy bunnies this time. Jihadi propaganda office falling down on the job? Or did they hit the jihadi propaganda office?
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/01/2004 1:15:10 AM ||
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#8
Should we put Saddam back in control and re-open the mass grave sites as well, Antwar? I guess you think freedom from tyranny is not for the Iraqi people.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/01/2004 11:46 Comments ||
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#10
a common theme for the antiwar crowd is that if the US has soldiers there they aren't sovereign
well we have troops in Germany, in SKorea, in Italy, in Greece, in about 30 countries (the numbers vary - some are in the hundreds, others in the thousands, others in the tens of thousands)
#11
Right BMN so sovreignity in your book involves leaving the invaders army behind??????
Antisemite, you're extrarordinarily illiterate. Can you really not spell or write at all?
There are US troops in Germany. Is Germany sovereign or not? Besides, if you're lucky they'll level Fallujah, just as you have demanded over and over.
Saddam could be a candidate and run for President I doubt he would win and that would be for the best.
Why do you think it wouldn't be for the best? I thought you loved Saddam, who brought sovereignty to the Iraqis. Last week you praised his efforts against the jihadis (whom you praise in other contexts--for example, you share their exterminationist antisemitism, just as your boyfriend does). Which is it, Antisemite?
#12
Antiwar, let me explain this in terms that I think even you will be able to understand:
You . . . are . . . an . . . idiot.
We didn't steal their sovereignty in 2003. Saddam did that a long time ago. And the moment he started raping, looting, and pillaging his own people, he gave up the right to be considered a "legitimate" ruler. Saying you don't know whether military action was the right course is one thing - I know plenty of pacifists who say that. But arguing, as you seem to, that letting Saddam get away with everything he did - the sheer evil of it, for that is what it is, evil, and I'll say it again just for clarification: evil - is essentially saying that we have no duty to stand up to such evil. Suggesting that he could be a candidate is laughable. It gives him a legitimacy that he doesn't deserve, and in fact threw away a long time ago. Get a clue, Antiwar.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/01/2004 12:04 Comments ||
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#13
That was a close one! People are always trying to get Lucky.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/01/2004 12:07 Comments ||
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#15
Anti-war: YOU ARE RIGHT! Iraq is NOT a sovereign nation, because US troops are protecting the country and providing security. You know what? Germany is not a sovereign nation, either; France (which sits behind our troops) is not; (list your favorite country here). The UN has no legitimacy, because it has to borrow all of its troops.
I must have been confused by your "Saddam would never have let Fallujah become an Islamic theocracy" thing. Do you believe he used persuasion?
that's more your best friend Dumbya's thing isn't it
Don't recall Bush's levelling Fallujah, which is a big mistake. Do recall mass graves in Shi'ite areas however. That's how Saddam "didn't let theocracy happen."
If Saddam would lose in a democratic election that would be the will of the majority
What do you care about that, Antisemite?
I do not approve of Saddam's actions to people who did not agree with him
Then why do you keep calling for his methods?
I think freedom of speech is important.
Really? Does your jihadi boyfriend?
Btw re antisemitism the Palestinians are the actual Semites so I think you are more than a little confused.
You hate Jews, therefore are called Antisemite. Why don't you figure out who Wilhelm Marr was, or is Google beyond you as well?
Why did you come in here talking about sovereignty anyway? You didn't mention it in your last post.
#22
To antiwar, are you anti-all-wars, like the Islamic terror war on the civilized world, or just any war America is involved with after being attacked (9-11) or threatened with economic blackmail by crackpot jihadee serial killers?
The Left is not having a good day ...today, with one of their unmentioned hero's on trial (Saddam) :)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 12:57 Comments ||
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#24
Antisemite doesn't hate Jews, she just believes in the Khazars, doesn't think Jews should have a country, reads and believes and recommends khilafah.com, etc...that is, she doesn't hate DEAD Jews. Live ones are a problem for her and her jihadi boyfriend, however.
Mr Espinola--
Antisemite is not against anti-Jewish wars of course. Nor anti-Western wars of any variety. She is a government employee who lives in a rich neighborhood.
For example, now Antiwar now lives in a wealthy neighborhood on land stolen from aboriginals. That IS a problem, though Antisemite has decided it isn't. Instead, she hopes all the Jews in Israel will be driven out by Arabs, as the Arabs have driven the Jews out of every Arab country.
#30
antiwar ima slow typer so it take some time to post. rothschild conspiracy is that jews arent realy jewish but are khazar like you say. it also is that the jewish leaders are all descend from rothschild bloodline and have zionism in mind for hundreds years. agenda: establish control of middle east for new world order. it is also part of conspiracy that hitler was a rothschild and him and the jewish leaders are plan the holocaust to help in facilitate zionist goal of state of israel. the star of david on the flag is realy symbol of rothschild bloodlines and not realy religious symbol. from here they push forward they illuminati agenda and that they (rothschilds) are realy practise satanism and human sacrafice. drink blood etc;
Antisemite only believes about 90% of that. Everyone knows that the Israeli flag's Magen David is much older than how you're making it out--it's just the blue lines are the Jordan and Nile, right? And the Rothschilds don't USUALLY drink blood--all Jews do on Pesach, as she read on khilafah.com.
#32
ima read that weird stuff in icke book and when i read it it is remind me of antiwar. i was maybe thinking she is read that stuff. icke is also claim rothschilds are lizard peples that are realy come from outer space. same as kennedys and duponts etc;
#36
Antiwar wrote, ... re antisemitism the Palestinians are the actual Semites ...
That pretty well does it -- whenever someone writes that, 99% of the time they're a closet Jew-hater.
Antiwar, you know damned well what "anti-semitism" means, and the dance you dance to avoid what that phrase means fools no one.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/01/2004 14:35 Comments ||
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#37
Antiwar:
What a misnomer of a name you have! You're not "anti-war" at all--you and your type are simply on the other side. You support thugs such as Saddam and Arafat and pretend that each is "legitimate" because you have no ability to comprehend concepts like right and wrong.
Meanwhile, you propose to be a continuous irritant to those that DO understand the difference between moral and legitimate leaders versus brutal killers masquerading as state officials.
Sometimes it seems like its really only a matter of a decade or two before the "anti-war" crowd will force a civil war upon the rest of us who've figured out that the future of Western Civilization is at stake--we can't allow you *faux* "peace"-niks to accelerate the downfall of our world.
1.) Is there another Jewish state in the entire world but Israel? No.
2.) Is there an Islamic-majority Mid East country willing to extend full rights, including rights to worship in Jewish tradition, to Jews inside their own borders? No.
Let's not help the BBC with their notion that one term is ok and one isn't. They are both terms of hatred.
#40
Mucky, I just love those kinds of conspiracies. Ever read The Illuminatus! Trilogy? Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson wrote it. It's the equivalent of a literary drug trip, but well worth the time spent trying to figure out what exactly is going on. And I wouldn't worry; perhaps Antiwar's out flying one of the black helicopters or something . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/01/2004 15:04 Comments ||
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#41
lol!
ima have to check that out doc. as much as i am know the whole lizard peples stuff is a weird ima cant help but kep reading it. im liking to know what peples are thinking.
antiwar and black choppers is remind me of boris and him planes spying on him.
hey...he been quiet for long time now. maybe they are abduct him.
#43
Antiwar-will you respond to the question:
Is there an Islamic-majority Mid East country willing to extend full rights, including rights to worship in Jewish tradition, to Jews inside their own borders? That means freedom to enter all buildings, broadcast whatver they please, retain all the powers and legal rights that Muslims in that country hold?
#45
Pakistani Princess "Antiwar" is a pro-terrorist operative who (naturally) flat refuses to denounce Islamic aggression anywhere, anytime: No denouncements of beheadings, kidnappings, rape and murder in Sudan, abuse of women in Pakistan and elsewhere, bombings and murder of innocent people in the US, UK, Spain, Turkey, etc., plus never any denouncement of Islamofascism, which is a movement geared toward war, or its goals. He (only at times--funny) pretends to be polite, to be "savvy" with Aussie-speak, and to be a "peacenik liberal" --in order to attempt to persuade readers toward the jihad. And there's more than one "Antiwar." They take turns.
"I am against all wars." says "Antiwar."
Sure you are. Unless it's jihad, right? Will you here and now denounce jihad, Antiwar?
#48
Just out of curiousity, has anyone seen anything concerning whether or not these strikes are coordinated with the Fallujah Brigade? Is the Alawi government going to continue paying these thugs? disband them? integrate them into the national forces? or just ask us to blow their shit away?
a democratic state where Jews Muslims etc can live together in peace with equal rights should be established.
But she doesn't believe in the lizard people!
Anyway, if Israel is "peacefully dismantled" and the Arabs kill all the Jews (as they threaten to do at length and have done everywhere else), that's OK with Antisemite, since she just loves dead Jews.
#51
The Zionist state should be peacefully dismantled and a democratic state where Jews Muslims etc can live together in peace with equal rights should be established.
should the Pakistani state be dismantled in favor of democratic state where hindus, muslims and christians can live together in peace with equal rights? Isnt it true that not all muslims support Pakistani independence, and not all who support Pakistani independence are muslims? Wasnt Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, a whiskey drinker, just as David Ben Gurion was non-observant jew?
The answer, AW, is that both Pakistan and Israel were established in defensive moves by embattled peoples. And both have since established themselves as distinctive societies, with as much right to exist as India, Egypt, France or Germany.
#54
'Antiwar's' pro-terrorist term 'The Zionist Entity' instead of the Jewish state of Israel, is also used by the likes of psychos in Hizballah & Hamas, plus Arafat's murdering thugs, Islamic Jihad, Al-Qa'ida killers, the Saudis, Saddam, the Iranian Mullahs, the Taliban, Malaysia's big mouth PM, Nazis & neo-Nazis and all other haters of the Jewish people.
It is not strange that all the mentioned above make it their practice to kill has many Jews as possible, or fund deranged jihadees to do the dirty work.
Which part do you play Mr. 'antiwar'?
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 15:53 Comments ||
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#55
Antisemite--
You're a stupid, illiterate cow. I merely underline the fact when you post.
#57
If there were manifest an Islamic country (non-secular) in which people of all faiths had equal rights, that gave us reason to believe that Jews & Muslims could live in peace together in our century, not in fantasy or a dream, but in reality, then there might be more reason to give a shared Palestinian/Israel a chance. Until then, I will look at conditions on the ground on both sides, listen to what each side is saying (one side wants peace and is willing to split off territory to arrive at peace, the other side, along with its main allies, refuses to acknowledge the right of the current Jewish state to exist in the Middle East) and base my judgment on what is RATIONAL.
I actually believe wrong has been done to both sides-to Palestinians since the end of WWII, but to Jews, in extremely disproportionate terms, by the way of extermination and blame for problems in the Middle East and Europe for MUCH LONGER.
This intifada is not helping Palestinians; it is removing reason for outsiders (with power to help) to have sympathy for Palestinians and implanting instead the belief that Palestinians, in the path they have chosen, are as unworthy of wielding power as a child is of handling a wild steer.
#60
"Exlib ALL wars.Everywhere. jihad, Dumbya's based on lies war."
Antiwar only listed a meaningless collection of words--not a denouncement (oh, how "clever" ).Antiwar never said:
I DENOUNCE ALL WARS,
EVERYWHERE
AT ALL TIMES INCLUDING ISLAMIC JIHAD.
Antiwar says: "BMN you'll feel better when you get your period."Spoken like a typical Islamic male--a jihadi pseudo-man! (Western females, including those from Australia, don't insult each other in this way--wrong style/wrong words/wrong concept).
Mark Espinola nicely points out that : 'Antiwar's' pro-terrorist term 'The Zionist Entity' is also used by the likes of:
Hizballah
Hamas
Arafat
Islamic Jihad
Al-Qa'ida
the Saudis
Saddam
Iranian Mullahs
the Taliban
Malaysia's big mouth PM
Nazis
neo-Nazis
#61
"The Zionist state should be peacefully dismantled and a democratic state where Jews Muslims etc can live together in peace with equal rights should be established.
Yeah, and lions should lie down with lambs, and swords should be beaten into plowshares.
Wake the hell up, Anti-semite--you're little charade as a "peace" person was exposed long ago. What you suggest is purely and simply a recipe for the destruction of Jews worldwide.
#62
Go Crusader!
Best of all, AntiSemite's little plan for "peace" is never going to happen! yea!
The Arabs/Mooooslims had their chance for this kind of state back in 1948, but noooooo.
Cue the late, great Sam Kennison: "They wanted to have it all!"
Posted by: Jen ||
07/01/2004 16:40 Comments ||
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#63
Jules, that was a spot-on comment. Sums up the situation nicely.
Antiwar - you're losing this one (as usual), but don't let that stop you coming back ok? But please, improve the spelling and read up on what the Jihadis want to do to free-speaking women huh?
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/01/2004 17:27 Comments ||
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#65
Just a little contribution regarding "Antiwar's" ravings. IMO, Antiwar is a fake -- s/he pretends to be a nice, concerned liberal, but s/he gets real nasty when support for islamofascists (including undermining Western society and values) is confronted too directly. So as not to waste bandwidth, you can read the Same Story, Different Day -- right here in a previous thread.
#67
cingold at least in today we are get to add the lizard peples angle to it. ima thinking next time i am let her in on conspiracy that united states is owned by virginia company and is complete british owned.
#69
To quote the late St. Rachel Pancake for Aunti War:
"I've got a date with a 'dozer!"
Posted by: Jen ||
07/01/2004 18:29 Comments ||
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#70
Antiwar, dear, in re:"you'll feel better when you get your period." You need to continue reading that etiquette book it you wish to achieve your goal of becoming a lady. Ladies never, ever refer to unavoidable biological processes in public situations such as this forum, and in private they behave as if they were in public. That means that big belch after you drink down a bottle of beer, too, dear.
Now, with regard to your little delusion on the separation of Zionism and Judaism. The Jewish concept of "Messiah", which has been part of the religion for about 2300 years (ie 300 B.C., dear), refers to an actual descendent of King David actually ruling an actually re-established Jewish country with its capital in Jerusalem and its territory encompassing that of the Biblical kingdoms of Israel and Judah. It is for this reason that the Jews have for the same period of time put out a cup of wine for the Prophet Elijah at the Passover Seder (you'll know that better as Jesus' Last Supper, dear), and closed the Seder with a prayer that the next Seder be celebrated in Jerusalem.
In other words, Antiwar, dear, the only difference between the aspirations of traditional Judaism and modern Zionism is the need for the leadership of a documented scion of the House of David.
#73
If Iraq is a sovreign state then the US military should leave now. Give back the sovreignity that was stolen in 2003 not a paltry illusion of it. I'm going to read Alternet for a while(bet you're all surprised ha ha)so bye-ee Dubya fans
#74
Hi I'm back Bomb-a-rama reference to Kool-Aid ????????????????.
Right BMN so sovreignity in your book involves
leaving the invaders army behind??????
Deacon Blue maybe as Iraq will maybe be a democracy Saddam could be a candidate and run for President I doubt he would win and that would be for the best.
#75
BMN I never demanded Fallujah be levelled that's more your best friend Dumbya's thing isn't it.If Saddam would lose in a democratic election that would be the will of the majority the same if by chance he won. I do not approve of Saddam's actions to people who did not agree with him. I think freedom of speech is important.Btw re antisemitism the Palestinians are the actual Semites so I think you are more than a little confused.
#79
Muck4doo sorry to keep you waiting but I went off the internet for a while. Yes Jews lived in Palestine in peace for thousands of years before the Zionist Entity came into being. Zionism is a blight on Jews and Muslims in the middle east. Re the Zionist-Nazi alliance go to the website Jewsagainstzionism.com. Lizard people now THAT is weird
#80
Jules I think freedom of religion is important so yes I regret that many Islamic nations do not extend such rights of worship to non Muslims. HOWEVER the Zionists have transformed Judaism from a religious to a nationalistic entity. Judaism is not the problem Zionism is and they are very different. Not all Zionsts are Jews and not all Jews are Zionists.The Zionist state should be peacefully dismantled and a democratic state where Jews Muslims etc can live together in peace with equal rights should be established.
Israel's Supreme Court sided with the Palestinians in a precedent-setting decision Wednesday, ordering the government to reroute part of its West Bank separation barrier near Jerusalem because it causes too much suffering. The ruling - the first major legal decision on the barrier - cracked a cornerstone of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to disengage from the Palestinians by 2005. Palestinians had gun sex rejoiced at the move. A family in this West Bank village expressed relief at no longer being blocked from its olive trees, and a little boy rode his bicycle up and down the barrier route waving a Palestinian flag. "The wall was choking all of our lives. That's why the decision is important," said Mohammed Abu Eid, a 54-year-old father of 10 whose crops were uprooted to make room for the barrier.
Israel's deputy defense minister, Zeev Boim, said the ruling would delay completion of the barrier, which Israel says it crucial for keeping out suicide bombers. "Now there will be a court appeal on every meter (yard) of the fence," Boim told Israel TV's Channel One. The court said the barrier must be rerouted, even at the cost of Israeli security. Several officials decried the ruling as a security menace, but the Defense Ministry - which oversees the barrier's construction - said it would comply. The court also forced the government to return land that has been seized and compensate the Palestinians for their financial losses, making it less likely the government can finish the project by next year as planned. Army planners met Wednesday evening to discuss the fallout from the court ruling.
The ruling focused on a stretch of barrier near Jerusalem that would have separated some 35,000 Palestinians from their crops. Foundations had been laid along parts of the 25-mile section, and earthmovers had leveled ground and uprooted trees elsewhere in preparation for construction. With Wednesday's decision, similar lawsuits are likely for other parts of the 425-mile complex of fences, concrete walls, trenches and razor wire. "We won't stop here," said Mohammed Dahla, a lawyer for the petitioners. "We will continue our legal struggle against this wall."
In other news, the Paleo Supreme Court ruled that Hamas must stop sending splodydopes into Israel -- oh, right, justice is a one-way street in Israel.
The court did not shoot down the barrier itself but rather the chosen route, which it said "injures the local inhabitants in a severe and acute way."
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/01/2004 1:11:18 AM ||
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#1
The court did not shoot down the barrier itself but rather the chosen route, which it said "injures the local inhabitants in a severe and acute way."
Nice of the Israeli court to show a little compassion, but the reality is that the Paleos would be unlikely to return the favor.
#2
Perhaps if the splodeydopes would injure the judges or their families "in a severe and acute way," they'd get their collective heads out of their asses.
Unfortunately, probably not.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/01/2004 1:40 Comments ||
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#3
An expedient or temporary barrier should have been up a year ago. Trenches, wire, guard posts, sensors, mines -- these can be done quickly. Put it on the Green Line, whatever. Remove it when/as the more serious barrier is completed. Since the political decision's been made to build a barrier, I cannot understand why Israel doesn't throw up an expedient one immediately, while route adjustments and construction on the real barrier continue. Someone explain this to me? Lives are at stake.
#5
Looks like Israel's Supreme Court isn't too different from ours...dammit!
They think they're being compassionate to terrorists when all it's doing is giving them another out to kill us again.
The Israelis will have no peace until they get all the "Palestinians" as far from Jerusalem as possible.
This decision wasn't too smart.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/01/2004 1:53 Comments ||
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#6
Israel's Supreme Court justices' need a greater understand that since Israel's national security barriers have been erected, border cross over Arab/Islamic suicide bombings have been greatly reduced down to almost nothing, in terms of the terrorist rampaging of before these required steps were taken to ensure public safety from demented individuals from the jihadee gangs.
In relation to mucking up the works, newer, higher, deeper and thicker security walls are required, so not one Hamas jihad cultist, or any other unbalanced Arab wanker is able to self detonate on a rush hour intercity bus full of people trying to go to and from work.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
07/01/2004 4:45 Comments ||
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#7
Jen, Jerusalem is not a purely Israeli city, never has been
#8
Actually, this is not the first time the Israeli SC has ordered the Security Fence rerouted. Sorry I don't have the reference (it is much too early in the morning!), but it was reported here on Rantburg at the time.
#11
I wasn't clear. I'm aware that very little of it is a wall, which is why I didn't use the word. My point is why not put up an expedient barrier (wire, trenches, temp. fence, sensors, mines -- as the location dictates) somewhere immediately, to gain immediate control over cross-border movement (the whole point of the barrier exercise). Put the temporary barrier on the Green Line to avoid any legal/political complications, while beavering away on the "real" or longer-term barrier, whose routing is the subject of the I. Supreme Court's decision. What am I missing here? It's like neglecting to put up a tarp or plastic cover over a whole in the roof until you do the real repair -- meanwhile, the rain comes in. In this case, "rain" means dead children and grannies. I give up, I don't get it.
#12
verlaine - this fence IS theoretically expedient - by putting the expedient line where you want the ultimate border to be, you press the Pals to make concessions to move it. If you put the expedient fence on the green line, you implicitly recognize the green line as border. Without saving any particular resources, if youre going to put in a fence strong enough to really save on deployments beyond the fence. Haim Ramon, of the Labour party, supported a fence closer to the green line - Sharon seems to have decided that the advantages in negotiating position and easing security not just of west of green line Israel, but of the large settlements just east of the green line, was worth the diplomatic cost of putting the fence further east. Im not prepared to say he was mistaken.
Note - the SC of Israeli has NOT said the entire fence must go back to the Green Line, theyve only forced the rerouting of a section. I havent followed the specific legal issues the Court addressed (note that Israel, like UK, has an "unwritten" constitution consisting of certain "basic laws" passed by the Knesset) However Israel IS a country of laws, and Supreme Court decisions WILL be respected. Thats the difference between our side and the jihadis.
#13
Thats the difference between our side and the jihadis.
Holding up that difference for all to behold is of little value when the enemy at the doorstep is more than willing to employ any and all methods at their disposal to exterminate you.
#14
I totally agree with you, #13. I double over with ulcer spasms whenever I read/hear "our side" preening about our superiority over the barbarians at our gates because of our rule of law and respect for the judicial/legal interpretations of those laws. Ouch!
It's judges and lawyers in the West[and if I am not mistaken Israel and the USA are numbers #1 and #2 for being "blessed" with the highest rate of lawyers per capita] who are the barbarians' greatest weapons against our survival.
Do any of you think we would have won WWII if Roosevelt had not declared an emergency and used the War Powers Act to suspend civil rights ie. muzzle lawyers and the justices of the Supreme Court?
Who do you think is clapping loudest today because of Israel's Supreme Court decision? Sharon or Arafat?
Listen, I am a devoted believer in an individual's rights and freedoms and absolutely hate big government and its control over an individual, BUT BUT at a time of real national emergency and I would say that Israel is faced with a very big national emergency ie. survival, I think that Sharon should be able to use emergency powers to set aside the judgement of the Supreme Court, if he and his cabinet come to an agreement that this judgement puts Israelis at risk. Now if Sharon and his cabinet do not want to risk their political careers for this decision OR if they sense that the majority of Israelis agree with the decision, then I say that Israelis must live with the consequences of allowing un-elected wizards in black robes to micro-manage their future.
That is, if the general public in Israel has no desire to have common sense prevail re: the building of their defense system and give acquiescent feedback to their politicians and their PM, then the Supreme Court should not be blamed for the consequences.
Posted by: rex ||
07/01/2004 15:18 Comments ||
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#15
Holding up that difference for all to behold is of little value when the enemy at the doorstep is more than willing to employ any and all methods at their disposal to exterminate you.
Israel was not founded as a law abiding democracy for the benefit of its neighbors, but for the benefit of its people. That which we are, we are.
#16
at a time of real national emergency and I would say that Israel is faced with a very big national emergency ie. survival,
how will moving the fence a few miles west endanger national survival? Thats not to say that the decision was a good one, but I hardly see at as one that justifies the govt dispensing with a SC decision.
When during WW2 did FDR set aside a SCOTUS decision?
#17
. I double over with ulcer spasms whenever I read/hear "our side" preening about our superiority over the barbarians at our gates because of our rule of law and respect for the judicial/legal interpretations of those laws. Ouch!
go take some meds then. Cause the US under Bush and Israel under Sharon are going to preen about being lawful, democratic societies. Sorry if this troubles you.
#18
That Israel and the USA are lawful democractic societies is a fact. This fact, however, is our weakness not our strength for defeating lawlwess barbarians who are conducting a holy war and who are enlisting new recuits every second because of the religious appeal and tribal loyalties.
I would suggest to you that Israel being fair and just with the Palestinians is not going to "defeat" the latter's innate hatred for all Jews. It's soldiers who will protect Israelis and not lawyers in the end. It is fear of Israel's might that will save Israel from the hordes that surround them and loathe them, not the respect for Israel being a lawful democratic society.
You take a med, #17, and it's called Thorazine to quell delusional thoughts. Ulcers can be cured these days, but it's not the case for schizophrenia.
Posted by: rex ||
07/01/2004 15:58 Comments ||
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#19
Israel was not founded as a law abiding democracy for the benefit of its neighbors, but for the benefit of its people.
Okay then, keeping that in mind, why reroute the path of the wall to placate Paleos at the cost of the security of its own citizens?
I wouldn't have had a problem with rerouting the wall on humanitarian grounds (and being as how it's the Paleos involved here, very THIN humanitarian grounds) if it was determined that the change would not result in a substantial increased security risk. But the court went even further than was really necessary and said that wall had to be rerouted even at the cost of Israeli security. Rather unwise, to put it mildly.
That which we are, we are.
In the face of an enemy that would not hesitate to slit your throat if given the opportunity, such a stand could end up having a cost in Israeli blood.
#20
First - remember - im not saying this is particular decision is right. I AM saying that right or wrong, it is right to follow it. Would you ignore a SC decision to save ONE life??? Is liberty (which is not possible without law) not worth life? If it is not, then the US would still be colonies of Great Britain.
#21
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety...
Ben Franklin, neither a soldier nor a lawyer (though he associated with both soldiers like Washington and Hamilton, and lawyers like Adams and Jefferson)
#22
BTW, the only evidence of a security loss due to rerouting is the delay that will cause. Well, chaverim (friends), Sharon did NOT start the wall when he first came into office. Evidently conflicted with his ideological and political goals. Would you suggest that Israelis ignore HIM?? Why give him (and the Israeli right) a pass that you dont give the SC of Israel?
#23
Would you ignore a SC decision to save ONE life??? Is liberty (which is not possible without law) not worth life?
The questions are, whose life is at risk, and why?
The one little problem with the situation in the original article is that it's not a situation where some Israeli ethnic or religious minority's rights are being trampled on in the name of security for all Israeli citizens. It's not some sort of dispute between internal factions; it's between Israel and entities outside Israel that wouldn't otherwise be inclined to abide by any Israeli court orders or decisions, which seemingly would make the logical choice a no-brainer.
In the end, the Israeli courts have issued a lawful decision, but it's troubling to contemplate its seeming willingness to sacrifice security to appease some individuals whose countrymen would probably not hesitate to exploit similar future decisions for the purpose of spilling more Israeli blood.
#24
"That Israel and the USA are lawful democractic societies is a fact. This fact, however, is our weakness not our strength for defeating lawlwess barbarians "
This fact however is the only thing that makes said defeat or victory meaningful. If the whole thing was about one group of lawless barbarians defeating another group of lawless barbarians, then what'd be the point and why would we give a damn either way?
"it's between Israel and entities outside Israel that wouldn't otherwise be inclined to abide by any Israeli court orders or decisions,"
One of these days Israel is gonna have to decide whether the West Bank is inside or outside Israel, whether it truly wants a neighbouring Palestinian nation or not. (And *no*, it's not just the Palestinian's choice. All the settlements and the wall's planned route itself goes against the "neighbouring nation" plan, regardless of whether the Palestinians are sane or rabid)
The Supreme Court's decision seemed to me to suggest that it considers the Palestinians of the West Bank a lawful part of Israel, that's why the wall's position must serve the Palestinian people. If the walls were being drawn as a border, you'd only care about people on your side of the fence.
The wall as built isn't a border.
"That which we are, we are. "
"...one equal temper of heroic hearts,
made weak by time and fate but strong in will
to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
#26
Let's not kid ourselves, there's only one issue here: the control of Jerusalem.
Apparently, the Jews still aren't ready to fight for our (Jews and Christians) holy city.
Someday they'll have to.
(And then Jesus will return to settle it once and for all...)
Posted by: Jen ||
07/02/2004 0:00 Comments ||
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#27
Chill, guys!
What the Israeli SC has ruled on is the temporary, expedient fence that you described, Verlaine.
Its path has been planned to maximize defensible Israeli territory, as much as possible beyond the indefensible Green Line. This give Israel plenty of room to redraw as becomes desirable/expedient/required by their SC.
You have to understand, Israel does not want to own the hostile Paleo population. And if giving in a little on the path of the Fence will keep the Paleos from fighting against the existence of the Fence until it has been completed, then who has really won?!?
#28
If the whole thing was about one group of lawless barbarians defeating another group of lawless barbarians, then what'd be the point and why would we give a damn either way?
Because the fact is, it's NOT one group of lawless barbarians defeating another group of lawless barbarians by any stretch of the imagination, regardless of what tactics are employed by those seeking to defeat the barbarians. This shouldn't be difficult to figure out.
(And *no*, it's not just the Palestinian's choice. All the settlements and the wall's planned route itself goes against the "neighbouring nation" plan, regardless of whether the Palestinians are sane or rabid)
There's been more than enough chances to resolve this problem in a reasonable and peaceful manner. The fact is, it hasn't been, and most if not all of the difficulty has originated from the Paleo side. So this seeming effort by Sharon to force the issue to a resolution one way or the other strikes me as quite appropriate. The alternative is more of the same ineffective Paleo footdragging, which is out of the question.
The Supreme Court's decision seemed to me to suggest that it considers the Palestinians of the West Bank a lawful part of Israel, that's why the wall's position must serve the Palestinian people.
That all depends on where those Paleos live. The wall was said to cut those people off from the olive orchards. Well, now that the court ordered that the wall be rerouted so as to not cut them off, do you believe for one minute that Israel would reroute so that those Paleos were inside Israel?
An Israeli court has no obligation to "serve" Paleos not under its jurisdiction; the court's decision was solely to minimize suffering, as mentioned in the article. And as I said previously, it's a humanitarian gesture not likely to be reciprocated by the Paleos.
#29
do you believe for one minute that Israel would reroute so that those Paleos were inside Israel?
You didn't understand me. I said that the wall wasn't a border, wasn't being drawn as such, and wasn't considered as such.
This means that the "rerouting of the wall" has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the Paleos in either side of the fence are "inside" or "outside" Israel. Since it's not a border.
An Israeli court has no obligation to "serve" Paleos not under its jurisdiction
And somehow the wall's position affects which Palestinians the Israeli court has jurisdiction over? I never heard of that.
#30
You didn't understand me. I said that the wall wasn't a border, wasn't being drawn as such, and wasn't considered as such.
But for all intents and purposes, it ends up being such. No Israeli court would be likely to impose a different standard of justice to anyone living within the wall's protected area but still outside of any official border.
And somehow the wall's position affects which Palestinians the Israeli court has jurisdiction over? I never heard of that.
Well naturally it would, since the wall doesn't follow exactly the route of the Green Line. Unless you have a different idea for those that live outside of the Green Line but inside of the wall's route...
The Iraqi Resistance is planning to obstruct flights and halt transport of oil.
The Iraqi Resistance is preparing for what it says is a decisive and basic battle for the control of Baghdad in the next two days. Reports say that the groups of Baâthist resistors have become active recently. They appeared to be in control of positions along the streets of Baghdad during the night, thus compelling the US forces to implement plans devised for US withdrawals throughout the night and a return to exercise control over the streets during the daytime.
The Iraqi Resistance appears to be following a systematic plan, not to prevent the handover of power on 30 June 2004 but to benefit from such a handover and to invest in it militarily and in practice, especially as the substitute Iraqi security forces will not be logically and militarily ready to take over the occupiersâ positions. The interim prime minister, Iyad Allawi, has hinted at that several times. In line with those tactics, sources close to the Iraqi Resistance have leaked to Al-Quds al-Arabi information to the effect that a fierce battle will be waged with the aim of controlling Baghdad or large sections of the city in the next few hours and prior to the date of handing over power. With the efforts that will be made to restrict the movement of military and civilian flights over Baghdad, the Resistance is at the same time planning to continue to strike at oil pipelines and installations and obstruct the production and transport of oil completely next week when the hand-over of power will take place, all within the framework of an integrated strategy to exploit the objective reality and harass the occupiers and their aides who will take over power.
(snip)
This sounds like horse-hockey to me, and the source is dubious, but here it is.
Posted by: Capt America ||
07/01/2004 1:08:34 AM ||
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#1
Doubt we'd be so lucky as for them to "take over neighborhoods" anywhere. Outside Fallujah (and sometimes inside it), when they gather, show themselves, or stay put, they're toast. Such a battle would be decisive, all right. Just not the way they're thinking. Be careful what "tennozans" you wish for ...
#2
Who the devil is Steve Quayle (the guy who published this report), anyway? Dan Quayle's batty old uncle in the attic?
Posted by: Mike ||
07/01/2004 6:22 Comments ||
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#3
I was *expecting* something like this, but now that it's the day after the expected handover, I'm starting to think that was jumping at shadows. Of course, half of Baghdad could be under Iranian control, and the news media wouldn't let us know unless their hotel bars were in the wrong half, so what the hell can I know about it?
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
07/01/2004 7:24 Comments ||
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#8
"They appeared to be in control of positions along the streets of Baghdad during the night, thus compelling the US forces to implement plans devised for US withdrawals throughout the night and a return to exercise control over the streets during the daytime."
Yeah, the US hates nightfighting. Its just unfair to fight when you can see and the other guy cannot.
#9
This could be a case where our own psyops is being reported back to us.
Hypothesis: We know that the street jihadists are weak in Baghdad. We put out a rumor that the street jihadists will begin their july offensive. We wait for the various jihadist news outlets to pick it up - some do, some don't*. The big offense doesn't happen. The cred of the street jihadists takes a hit.
#10
Anyone who preaches that angels married people and had sex and gave birth to 'hybreds' glorifies their bliss of ignorance and can be ignored just as Mr. Quayle. Actually the 'sons of God' are HUMAN BEINGS as God tells us in a verse like in John 1:12 or even better yet, Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,they are the sons of God" Now read the whole chapter. Don't be like false prophets who cherry pick verses to write their own gospels.
Posted by: Truth Seeker ||
07/06/2004 3:17 Comments ||
Top||
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
