Followup to the previous report...
Security forces arrested six Bahrainis suspected of links to the Al-Qaeda terror network who were preparing to carry out "grave acts ... with dangerous materials" in this Gulf state, the interior minister announced. "After widescale investigations and the inspection of various sites, the security forces arrested six people to stop them from carrying out grave acts against human lives and goods through the use of dangerous materials," said minister Sheikh Rashid bin Abdullah al-Khalifa. In a statement on the official Bahrain News Agency, he said the attorney general would take up the case after investigations were complete. A lawyer for the men told AFP earlier that they had been arrested before dawn and that it was unclear why they had been taken in. Lawyer Abdullah Hashim named the first three held as Bassam al-Ali and brothers Yasser Abdullah Kamal and Omar Abdullah Kamal. "Three others have been arrested," the lawyer said later identifying them as Mohedin Mahmud Khan, his brother Ali Mahmud Khan and Bassam Abdullah Bukhowa. Police also searched the home of Sheikh Mohammad Saleh and confiscated documents, books and computer discs, but he was not detained as at first thought.
He'd be their spiritual advisor, of course...
The suspects are believed to follow the extreme Sunni Salafi movement which is close to Osama bin Ladenâs Al-Qaeda.
Another bunch of wahhabis...
Hashim said he received a call from some of his clients alerting him to the arrest operation. "I advised them to ask the police for the arrest and search warrant, but the call was cut off," he said. "I donât think there is a reason to arrest them and I donât think they have any activities which call for an arrest." Bassam al-Ali, 48, was one of five arrested in February 2003 for allegedly running a terror cell in the Gulf state but released last June for lack of evidence.
"Yeah. Dey dint have nuttin' on me. Da witnesses wuz all dead!"
Mohedin Khan and Bukhowa were also alleged to be members of the cell. Bahraini officials had announced the discovery of weapons and ammunition intended for use against Bahraini interests amid inquiries into suspected links to Al-Qaeda. One of the five, Jamal Hilal Mohammad al-Blushi, was jailed by a military court for three years, fined 1,300 US dollars and dismissed from the national guard for keeping arms and weapons at home. The father of the Kamal brothers, Abdullah, said one had been picked up at an internet cafe, the other at home. "What can a youngster like Omar do, heâs only 17," he protested.
Cut somebody's head off? Plant some explosives?
Saleh was also arrested in Saudi Arabia in July last year and released in April.
"Now, be a good boy, hear?"
MP Mohammad Khaled told AFP, Saleh had been taken in after receiving a telephone call from one of 26 men named on a list of most wanted militants in the kingdom.
Posted by: Anonymous3964 ||
06/22/2004 9:58:29 AM ||
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Large numbers of Yemeni troops Tuesday laid siege to hundreds of supporters of a firebrand preacher after overnight fighting left two soldiers dead and five wounded near the Saudi border, tribal sources said. The army fired heavy weapons in the overnight clashes as the battle raged in three areas of Saada province where several civilians also died, the sources said. An interior ministry statement confirmed the army casualties in the Maran area. Armed partisans of Hussein Badr Eddin al-Huthi also came out in force in two other locations in Saada, some 250 kilometres (155 miles) north of the capital, the sources said. Yemeni authorities accuse Huthi of stirring trouble by organising anti-US demonstrations after weekly Muslim prayers on Fridays. His supporters are "outlaws... extremists and trouble-makers," the ministry charged vowing that they would be brought to justice. "They have opened fire on government institutions, police pickets and roughed up students to stop them from going to school," it added.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 9:25:01 AM ||
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EFL
...Jubeir tried to assure Americans that Saudi Arabia had tried its best to rescue Johnson from his captors, who said they would kill Johnson if hundreds of Al Qaeda members in Saudi jails were not released. A three-day deadline was set last week after his kidnapping. "The people of Saudi Arabia are outraged by the cruel and cold-blooded murder of this innocent man," Jubeir said. He said that 15,000 Saudi security personnel had been involved in the search for Johnson, whose body was found in a Riyadh suburb. On Friday, photos of his beheaded corpse were posted on the Internet by his killers. Meanwhile, Crown Prince Abdullah blamed Israel for the execution. Speaking to Saudi television, he said, "Zionism is behind it. It has become clear now. It has become clear to us. I donât say, I mean... It is not 100 percent, but 95 percent that the Zionist hands are behind what happened." Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef said, "Al-Qaida is backed by Israel and Zionism, " and a Saudi official in the US argued that Zionists and others who argue for regime change in Saudi Arabia "share the same objective as Osama bin Laden." When faced with the choice between the bottle in front of him and a frontal lobotomy, it is quite obvious which option he took. Good Muslims donât drink alcohol. I think Nayef rode to school on the short camel.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 1:52:13 AM ||
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#1
No difference between Abdullah and Antisemite, is there?
#2
This seems to be a dark day for the Al Qaeda movement in Saudi Arabia. Crown Prince I.B. Dull-uhh and Prince Nayef now in agreement on something that everyone in SA can unite behind - ridding themselves of the Zionists.
It's simple, yet effective. Al Qaeda is the Zionists.
#3
Reading this piece and trying to understand the mental processes of these great princes is the literary equivalent of severe vertigo.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/22/2004 10:23 Comments ||
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#4
Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef said, "Al-Qaida is backed by Israel and Zionism, " and a Saudi official in the US argued that Zionists and others who argue for regime change in Saudi Arabia "share the same objective as Osama bin Laden."
This brain-dead moron is actually in contention for the Saudi throne?
Does anyone else get the impression that the Saudi royals are like the Tsarist House of Romanov with bin Laden playing the role of mad monk Rasputin? (There's even a slight resemblance too.)
The depths of selfdeception that Arab leadership will cheerfully sink to goes beyond credibility. So long as they can torture out of their twisted logic some sort of conclusion that avoids even a hint of self-blame, it's no-holds-barred.
The Saudi royals are sinking into a morass of insane finger-pointing and squabbling while their kingdom is shredding itself against reality's jagged rocks. If this was some backwater tinpot dictatorship (which it would be without any oil) all of this would be comically hilarious.
Instead, we are treated to some of the most deluded self-induced hallucinatory lunacy that is rivaled only by Joseph Goebble's Nazi propaganda machine. I'm beginning to suspect whatever disease that the royals have (syphillis, microencephaly, tertiary necropsis of the patella ...), it is most definitely terminal.
It is simply surreal to watch grown adults indulge in the abject denial of reality. I'm beginning to think that America needs to create its own propaganda films to counter such drivel as "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion."
#5
Is it possible that this is meant for local consumption? Abdullah thinks this is the only way to get the masses of brainwashed Saudis to oppose AQ? Im not sure, but I do think Abdullah understands that AQ is not Zionist.
#8
This is obviously a disgusting thing for this moron to say but his reasoning might make sense. He knows his country is filled with anti-semites so he's trying to turn them against al-queda by associating al-queda with jews. I don't think he really believes what he's saying... but you never know.
#12
If he stopped mentionoing Israel and just villified the Zionists I could go with that. Perhaps the term Zionists would eventually morph in peoples minds to mean Al Queda instead of the Jews. Sort of the way Liberal once meant a free-trading low taxation type and now it means the opposite.
#22
So what's the plan if Saudi oil goes off line?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/22/2004 13:06 Comments ||
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#23
AP - Seriously?
Some Options - Strategic Reserves (Now aren't you glad Bush isn't listening to the dumber-than-a-brick Skeery?), Other suppliers will try to step up to max to cash in on price, but most are at or near max now - cashing in, doncha know.
Questions - Damage: How bad / how long? Who did it? (i.e. are Royals complicit?) If Royals go at it against each other then Army vs Nat'l Guard melee begins. CP Abdullah controls NG (Shammar Clan) / Nayef (Sudairi Clan) controls Army. Approx evenly matched. Sooooo many variables depend on who...
Timeframe - When? Today, 6 months, 12 months... determines how many US & UK boots might be free...
#24
Bingo, Zenster. If the Royals can only blame Jews for AQ and the British Saudi dissidents, it is a dark day indeed for the MK. Even smart Saudis (and there are more than a few) must see the fakiness of this so-called domestic strategy by linking AQ and Jews. Time for W and friends to think of worst case scenarios.
Those of us who have shared the economic slivers of gold in the Kingdom know that expecting its leaders to promote parliamentary democracy and the rule of law would be too much. But, at least, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect them to recognize that the world has changed since Sept. 11?
Posted by: Michael ||
06/22/2004 13:29 Comments ||
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#25
.com, great photo.
Posted by: Matt ||
06/22/2004 13:40 Comments ||
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#26
Soddy unlike Iraq has never been secular - in fact it is the opposite spectrum. Iraq will have a much more easier time to transition into democracy (at least a ME version of it) that Soddy will ever achieve - revolution or evolution. Iraq probably next to Eygpt and Lebanon has the largest educated professional class in all of the ME - doctors, lawyers, engineers etc. Plus it has oil and water (bigger than oil in the ME)and the foundations for building a democracy. Soddy has none of this but a theocratic monarchy built on clan culture, too much money, too much free time, lazy ambition and living in denial.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
06/22/2004 13:47 Comments ||
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#27
Sorry, Muslim brothers, we are going to hold you to the meaning in your words.
AMER HERITAGE: Zionist
n. An organized movement of world Jewry for the reconstitution of a Jewish state in Palestine, now concerned with supporting the state of Israel.
In our time, there is a state of Israel, so, basically Zionism is about ensuring the continuation of the state of Israel.
So, foreign contractors were killed by people ensuring the continuation of the state of Israel? Which people, Saudi Arabia? You mean your "friend" the US? Name names, buy a vowel, or STFU.
Incidentally, I have seen a number of commentators on the BBC blogsite contrast being anti-Semitic with anti-Zionist, as if one acceptable and the other not. Both are reprehensible. One can support both the legitimacy of Israel and the the creation of a Palestinian state. If our fellow lefty-bloggers are really for treating people fairly and equally, let's quit cutting people slack when they justify anti-Zionism; if you are against Israel, you are against the people in Israel.
#29
These statements are strong evidence of the depth of panic of the Saudi royals. The end is upon them and they don't have a clue how to prevent it. When you're reduced to calling the "insurgents" Zionists, you're pathetic. My guess is that there are a lot of scenarios being dusted off and updated at both CENTCOM and the Pentagon. The only real question is before or after November.
#30
If al Quaeda really wants to tip over the Saudi applecart, it won't attack the oil industry, it will start blowing up desalinization and wastewater recycling plants. If you look at Saudi population growth, you will find that it correlates nicely with the increase in water supply brought about through use desalinization and wastewater recycling. You want to see the Arab street seethe - take away their drinking water.
#31
all saudi royal family members, close your eyes and repeat after me; "the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, everyone loves and adores us, open rebellion is not upon us, the sky is not falling. feel better? no? well at least you can still blame your troubles on the J-O-O-O-O-O-S! have a nice day.
Posted by: big dave DRA ||
06/22/2004 15:17 Comments ||
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#32
Abdullah's intellect: two brain cells held together by a spirochete.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/22/2004 15:49 Comments ||
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#33
Dr Steve - The visual! Laughing so hard it hurts... LOL!
#36
As funny as that mental image is, doesn't it assume that Crown Princess Abdullah /has/ a brain, much less two whole brain cells? I mean, 2 brain cells is giving him alot of credit.
#37
And I am almost 100% convinced that the UN's black helicopters, flown by Illuminati pilots trained at a secret North Pole base, have made contact with Mason agents within Saudi Arabia to frame the Zionists for this one, when in reality all they did was cart a couple of death rays over the border.
Just when I thought the Saudis couldn't get any more laughable . . . this would make great comedy if so many people weren't dying because of it.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/22/2004 18:51 Comments ||
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#38
Nah, doc. They'll blame them for the Korean guy.
#39
If he stopped mentionoing Israel and just villified the Zionists I could go with that. Perhaps the term Zionists would eventually morph in peoples minds to mean Al Queda instead of the Jews
The last time Abdullah used the term, it was a slur directed against Nayef and his faction. This time, who knows? Maybe it is a deflect-and-blame.
CP Abdullah controls NG (Shammar Clan) / Nayef (Sudairi Clan) controls Army. Approx evenly matched.
Don't forget that the KSA Air Force still has a good portion of its F-15s on the western side of the Kingdom, away from Ridyadh. And there's the KSA navy. Still plenty of Harpoons in their inventory...
There is at least one â and, according to the American wife of a senior manager in Jeddah, many more â Saudi-owned companies treating families of Western employees as hostages. In a candid interview, the woman, identified as Siobhan, said that US-based companies had been very proactive in making arrangements for families and dependents to leave. âIn the case of my husbandâs company, they have refused to concede anything. They have completely turned their back on our requests. We feel as if we are under fire, hostages in the Kingdom.â
She detailed attempts by her and her husband to get a response from the employer. âThey refuse to give us any extra security, demobilize us or ship goods out of the Kingdom,â she said. Before the company was fully Saudi-owned, she said, it was part of a well-known US-based corporation. Siobhan, who is in close contact with other US families, has telephoned the US Consulate in Jeddah for advice. âI get put through to an extension with an answering machine,â she said. âTo date, I have received no return calls.â Presenting that information to the US Consulate in Jeddah evoked an immediate response.
âServing American citizens is our top priority,â said Consul General Gina Abercrombie-Winstanley, âand we are answering all calls and messages that come in to us.â The US government, the embassy in Riyadh pointed out, cannot involve itself in contractual arrangements between expatriate Americans and their employers.
Many US-owned companies in the Kingdom have responded to the security situation by offering their employees full compensation and benefits and encouraging dependents to leave in line with the embassyâs recommendations. âTheir attitude,â said Siobhan, âis that if you feel unsafe, then go. Our only choice is a 90-day notice with no options.â
A confidential report by security advisers suggests that the refusal to relax the 90-day rule is widespread. One case the advisers specify pertains to an employer who has not paid out the final contract benefits of employees who resigned two months ago. The advisers claim it is because the employer allegedly does not have enough money to meet contractual obligations. The employer owes many employees more than SR80,000 in educational fees, which the employees have paid in advance and submitted expense vouchers for, but for which they have not been reimbursed in over six years.
Siobhan is disappointed rather than angry with the Saudi company that sponsors both her and her husband. In the Kingdom since the early 1990âs, her family generally involved themselves with Saudi life and made a point of not associating only with expatriate workers or isolating themselves from the local community. Arab News contacted the company by fax, inquiring about current arrangements for its expatriate employees but has received no response. Siobhan said, âWe made some fine local friends and until very recently always felt the celebrated sense of hospitality and welcome. That has been damaged now, probably irreparably. The greatest sadness is that we now look at people who we knew as friends and as trusted employers and begin asking questions. In this case, the first casualty of war has not been truth but trust.â
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
06/22/2004 12:48:55 AM ||
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#1
The Wahhabi terrorist creators of the 'royal' family of the House of Saud must be viewed for the reality of what they have always been ..........the enemy of Western Civilization.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/22/2004 1:50 Comments ||
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#2
Just leave your stuff and tell your employer that you plan to take a few weeks of liberty CONUS. Bring you wedding album, but leave the sofa - you can get one "zero down" stateside. Your skills will be even more in demand soon. I think we are going to see a rash of burials for folks working in the petroleum industry world wide. Teach school for a couple of years and you may be able to double your salary once the killing is done. It is also possible that your employer may soon be dead as well so job security and the 401K should not be a consideration in your immediate need to bail - expeditiously.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 2:39 Comments ||
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#3
Siobhan said, âWe made some fine local friends and until very recently always felt the celebrated sense of hospitality and welcome. That has been damaged now, probably irreparably. The greatest sadness is that we now look at people who we knew as friends and as trusted employers and begin asking questions. In this case, the first casualty of war has not been truth but trust.â
#5
...My advice to Siobhan would be to hie herself and her family to the Embassy posthaste and ask for help in getting home - and NOT leave until they do, or get a chance to speak to a reporter.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
06/22/2004 13:01 Comments ||
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#6
the "07's" are taking over--leave--bomb asir
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
06/22/2004 13:53 Comments ||
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#7
âServing American citizens is our top priority,â said Consul General Gina Abercrombie-Winstanley, âand we are answering all calls and messages that come in to us.â ...The US government, the embassy in Riyadh pointed out, cannot involve itself in contractual arrangements between expatriate Americans and their employers.
Since serving US citizens is the State Department's TOP PRIORITY, then why is it that the State Dept. feels it cannot involve itself in "contractual arrangements" at a time when US citizens' lives are in danger in Saudi Arabia??? This is total crap, and the President and Colin Powell should both put in calls to the US embassies in Riddayh and Jeddah a.s.a.p. to remind the consuls there of their primary mandate-the safety and welfare of US citizens whether they be employed by Saudi Arabians or by purple people eaters, employment does not change the benefits and freedoms that are part and parcel of being a US citizen. This nonsense reflects very poorly on the WH as well as State, I must say.
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 14:50 Comments ||
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#8
Most of the stereotypes typically ascribed to Jews concerning money and finance are really more compatible with Arabs. (Maybe Shylock was really a Saudi.) This is indicative of the overall lack of concern for any non-income producing infidel. Don't try and get a better deal, just get out while you can. Saudi has already had its Krystalnacht and worse is coming for any Westerner stupid enough to put themself at risk.
Security forces arrested early Tuesday two Bahrainis previously held on suspicion of links to the Al Qaeda terror network, their lawyer told AFP. The reasons for the arrests of Bassam al-Ali and Sheikh Mohammad Faleh were âunclearâ, said laywer Abdullah Hashim.
Failing to escort an old lady across the street?
Both men are believed to follow the extreme Sunni Salafi movement. Hashim said he received a call during the arrest operation. âI advised them to ask the police for the arrest and search warrant, but the call was cut off,â he said. âI donât think there is a reason to arrest them and I donât think they have any activities which call for an arrest.â Authorities could not be immediately contacted for comment.
Bassam, 48, was one of five arrested in February 2003 for allegedly running a terror cell in the Gulf state but later released in June for lack of evidence. Bahraini officials had announced the discovery of weapons and ammunition intended for use against Bahraini interests amid inquiries into suspected links to Al Qaeda. Jamal Hilal Mohammad al-Blushi, a national guard lieutenant, was jailed by a military court for three years, fined 1,300 US dollars and dismissed for keeping arms and weapons at home. Faleh was arrested in Saudi Arabia in July last year and released in April. MP Mohammad Khaled told AFP, Faleh had been held after receiving a telephone call from one of 26 men named on a list of most wanted militants in the kingdom.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 12:15:41 AM ||
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#1
Apparently 6 have now been arrested according to Beeb.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
06/22/2004 6:15 Comments ||
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Jolted by video footage showing one of their countrymen being held in Iraq by kidnappers threatening to behead him, hundreds of South Koreans joined candlelight vigils and prayer groups Monday while the government scrambled to negotiate the hostageâs release. In the video, first broadcast Sunday by the Arabic satellite TV network al-Jazeera and rerun countless times here Monday, Kim Sun Il, 33, screamed for his life while his hooded, armed captors demanded that South Korea quit the international military coalition in Iraq. The video was released three days after the government had finalized plans to begin deploying its main contingent of 3,000 troops there this summer. The kidnappers gave South Korea 24 hours from sunset Sunday to agree; otherwise, they said they would "send to you the head of this Korean." After an urgent cabinet meeting, South Korean leaders rejected the demand and dispatched an emergency diplomatic mission to Jordan in an attempt to win Kimâs release.
I'd have dispatched a special ops team and a liasion with the American forces there myself.
If they have any sense they did both...
A banner in the background of the video named Kimâs abductors as members of Jamaat al-Tawhid and Jihad. The group is associated with Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian accused of having links to al Qaeda and blamed by U.S. officials for several recent kidnappings and car bombings in Iraq. U.S. officials pledged to assist in the search for Kim, promising to use military and intelligence resources to help with any rescue effort. But they acknowledged that little progress had been made. "Weâre developing that intelligence about where he was captured, under what circumstances he was captured, but Iâm just not sure that we have built that body of intelligence yet," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief U.S. military spokesman in Iraq. Kim was working as a translator for a South Korean contractor supplying goods to the U.S. military and had hoped to become a Christian missionary in the Middle East. He was kidnapped Thursday in Fallujah, 35 miles west of Baghdad, South Korean officials said.
Christian missionary? Say yer prayers, Kim, you're going to need them.
Kim Chun Ho, head of Gana General Trading Co., which employed the abducted interpreter, told South Koreaâs semi-official Yonhap news agency from Mosul that "several other third-nationality employees" from the U.S. firm KBR, an affiliate of Halliburton Co., had been traveling in the same convoy as Kim Sun Il and were also taken hostage. The report could not be immediately verified.
Zarqawi's thinking in terms of setting up an assembly line...
A majority of South Koreans are against sending the troops, surveys indicate, and the kidnapping led some opponents to demand that the government backtrack. "Kim is an innocent citizen, and he should not be sacrificed in what is essentially an unjustified invasion," Kim Ki Sik, the head of a North Korean front citizensâ group opposed to the war, said during a demonstration with several dozen no-goodnik protesters Monday in downtown Seoul. "We oppose this war and we oppose the Korean governmentâs decision to send troops despite the fact that the people are against it. Now, one of our own has his life at stake. We donât have much time."
Giving up involves buying a turban and bowing down to Mecca five times a day. And none of that Shiite malarky.
Vice Foreign Minister Choi Young Jin told reporters that South Koreaâs dispatch plan had "not changed," and Roh sought to emphasize South Koreaâs benevolent intentions. "We need to make efforts to explain that our troops will focus on reconstruction efforts without conducting hostile activities against Iraqi people," Roh said in a statement in which he described the kidnapping as a "very sad incident." "The government should handle the case in a calm manner and use all available diplomatic resources to rescue him unharmed," he said.
If that fails, I suggest a few battalions of ROK marines...
The circumstances surrounding Kimâs capture remained sketchy, but Kim Chun Ho told Yonhap that the interpreter was taken hostage while returning from a delivery to a U.S. military camp 120 miles west of Baghdad with an Iraqi employee and other foreigners of undisclosed nationality working for KBR. Kimâs sister, Kim Jung Sook, 34, said in a telephone interview that her brother had been in Iraq for eight months on a one-year contract, and planned to return to South Korea in July for their fatherâs 70th birthday. She described her brother as a devout Christian who had earned degrees in Arabic, English and theology in the hopes of one day doing missionary work. She said Kim had accepted the interpreting job to earn money and continue his studies. "He learned Arabic because he wanted to be a pastor or a missionary working in the Middle East," Kim Jung Sook said.
And he is surprised when islamists want to cut his head off? Doesn't get out much, does he?
Y'don't suppose that was why they killed him first?
"He looked very nervous and fearful on television; but thatâs not what he was like. He was never afraid of anything."
Having someone threaten to behead you can rattle a person.
Kimâs sister said she was putting her faith in the government to do what was right. "Just because of one person, we cannot just flip-flop our national policy," Kim said from her family home in Pusan, South Koreaâs second-largest city. "All I can say to the government is, please do your absolute best to bring my brother home alive." Kimâs mother, Shin Young Ja, however, told local television reporters that while she once believed in the Iraqi mission, she now wanted the government to rethink the deployment for her sonâs sake.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 12:13:33 AM ||
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#1
Kimâs mother, Shin Young Ja, however, told local television reporters that while she once believed in the Iraqi mission, she now wanted the government to rethink the deployment for her sonâs sake.
I imagine the families of the crew of the USS Pueblo is feeling the same.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 2:45 Comments ||
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#2
Kimâs mother, Shin Young Ja, however, told local television reporters that while she once believed in the Iraqi mission, she now wanted the government to rethink the deployment for her sonâs sake.
No problem. We here in the U.S. probably should rethink our deployment on the Korean Peninsula.
#4
Attitudes like hers takes the benefits out of the kidnapping and killing, sad as the results here may end up. Admirable
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 12:14 Comments ||
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#5
Kim was working as a translator for a South Korean contractor supplying goods to the U.S. military and had hoped to become a Christian missionary in the Middle East.
Aw, geez. The poor guy's not gonna make it.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/22/2004 12:16 Comments ||
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#6
I don't wanna do a futures for this guy, but I'm afraid he was dead the minute they kidnapped him, the rest is PR and formality
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 12:17 Comments ||
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#7
9:46 AL Jiz sez they killed him - beheaded
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 12:46 Comments ||
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#8
ROK troops aren't gonna like this one bit.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/22/2004 12:48 Comments ||
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#9
If you're gonna be there, have some sense and carry a weapon - and be prepared to use it. Don't let these bastards take you alive.
It is not known how the friendship between Sharif and his accomplice, Asif Hanif, blossomed. It is said that they met in Syria in 2000 or 2001 but it is possible that they met before then, as both lived in Hounslow. Hanif was brought up in Hounslow and attended Cranford Community College until 2000, when he was 18. He was just 21 when he set off for his suicide mission. Described as a "well-liked and respected pupil", he had studied business studies before leaving for the University of Damascus. Hanif had been well-known at the 2,000-member Hounslow Jamia Mosque and Islamic Centre, in Wellington Road South. The mosque is opposite the house where Sharif and his wife, Tahira, are believed to have lived for a few months in 1999 and 2000. It is likely that Sharif worshipped there. One member, Mazher Khawaja (65), said: "Asif was gentle, like a lamb. He was a member of the Sufi group who believed in peace." He had been under the impression that Hanif had been unable to get a place at Damascus University. Before his fatal trip to Israel, Hanif was living in Lela Avenue with his family, who still live there. His brother, Tassadiq, said: "Anyone would tell you he was just a big teddy bear." Asif Hanif is the British suicide bomber of Mikeâs Place in Israel on April 30, 2003, he killed a waitress and two musicians. He injured 65 others.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
06/22/2004 1:30:33 AM ||
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#1
Maybe Asif Hanif suffered under a misconception about the differences in translation between "peace" and "pieces." If Arabic lacks homonyms, that could make all the difference.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 2:22 Comments ||
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#2
Asif, believed in pieces, was gentle, like a lamb... a rabid lamb with 3" incisors and a mean streak a mile wide.
"Look at the bones!"
Posted by: Dar ||
06/22/2004 7:13 Comments ||
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#3
His brother, Tassadiq, said: "Anyone would tell you he was just a big teddy bear."
#5
It never fails to amaze me that these suicide bombers-either out of desperation or calculation-imagine that blowing people into 2" morsels is going to bring a Palestinian state any closer to reality. As long as Palestinians support these tactics and the objective of a Jew-free world, we will rightly judge them as utterly unworthy of leadership or power.
#6
Jules, the saddest thing of all is that they're killing the very people they need to make their state function. I'm no expert on government, and I know enough about politics to get by (I have a few good friends I rely on when I don't have a clue, or I just check here), but it seems to me that the issue of the Palestinians wanting Israel to take some of their refugees was the dumbest thing they could ask for - since those are, again, the people you need for a society to function, i.e. for a freaking Palestinian state. Arafat's organization has done a pretty poor job of creating an infrastructure, and Hamas and those other hate-filled groups - while they may do a few charitable things now - spend the majority of their time planning how to kill Jews . . . and that's no foundation for a life for anybody. That the Palestinians continue to flush their future down the toilet by sending their young to blow themselves up is a true shame.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/22/2004 16:31 Comments ||
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From The Council on American-Islamic Relations
On behalf of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the nationâs largest Islamic civil rights organization, I offer my deepest condolences on the news of the brutal murder in Iraq of South Korean national, Mr. Kim Sun-il. As American Muslims and people of conscience, we condemn this latest act of murder in the strongest terms possible and hope that the perpetrators are swiftly brought to justice. ...
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/22/2004 10:23:30 PM ||
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As American Muslims and people of conscience, we condemn this latest act of murder in the strongest terms possible and hope that the perpetrators are swiftly brought to justice.
Maybe it's the good Chardonnay that's making me act recklessly but... do these words sound familiar to anyone other than my drunken self? Whatever...at the very least, you must admit that these are empty, emotionally detached, politically correct platitudes that are condescendingly offered to assuage the dumb plebs in middle America...ie. you and me.
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 22:33 Comments ||
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#2
Rex, if you are drunk on anything alchoholic, you are light years ahead of whatever smarmy sentiments the moose limbs can proffer through CAIR.
#3
Err...#2...thanks for the compliment, I think...but what I hoped you would notice is how the PC empty words of CAIR are similar to what we hear from Scott McClellan and President Bush[Kerry is too busy spending election advertising $ to take notice of the * 14 beheadings of Westerners in the last 2 months... hohum...Teresa, would you mind signing yet another blank check?].
My point is how come America has fallen on such barren times of leadership that the best of our current political leaders sounds no different than a religious lobby group? If you Google condemns brutal act, you'll get strange bedfellows using the same phrase to criticize "beheading."
* According to DEBKA: In three weeks, al Qaeda has executed 14 captive Americans or allied nationals in Saudi Arabia and Iraq by beheading or cutting their throats.
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 23:34 Comments ||
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United Nations-mandated auditors have sharply criticised the US occupation authority for the way it has spent more than $11bn in Iraqi oil revenues and say they have faced "resistance" from coalition officials. In an interim report, obtained by the Financial Times, KPMG says the Development Fund for Iraq, which is managed by the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority and channels oil revenue into reconstruction projects, is "open to fraudulent acts". The auditors criticise the CPA's bookkeeping and warn: "The CPA does not have effective controls over the ministries' spending of their individually allocated budgets, whether the funds are direct from the CPA or via the ministry of finance."
The findings come after US complaints about the UN's administration of the oil-for-food programme under Saddam Hussein.
Fe-e-e-e-e-l the love!
According to the CPA, the Development Fund for Iraq has taken in $20.2bn since last May and has disbursed $11.3bn, with $4.6bn left in outstanding commitments.
One adviser to a member of the recently disbanded Iraqi Governing Council said the report raised the fear that no audit of the CPA's work would ever be completed. "If the auditors don't finish by June 30, they never will, because the CPA staff are going home," he said. "I lament the lack of transparency and lack of involvement by Iraqis."
The KPMG auditors are answerable to the International Advisory and Monitoring Board, set up by the UN Security Council in May last year to oversee coalition spending from the development fund. The account contains oil revenues, frozen assets and money left over from the UN's oil-for-food programme. The watchdog comprises representatives of the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and Arab Fund for Social and Economic Development. It spent much of last year battling with occupation administrators over the watchdog's remit. Officials said they were able to begin working in earnest only in April. In their first interim report, KPMG said it had "encountered resistance from CPA staff". CPA staff told KPMG they were overworked and had given them a "low priority".
The UN decided this month that responsibility for the Development Fund for Iraq will pass to the Iraqi interim government and be monitored by the the IAMB. The panel also intends to widen its scrutiny of past CPA spending by examining reports and audits by the Pentagon's inspector general and the General Accounting Office, an official said.
If the UN does as good a job with this as with the Oil-for-Palaces program, the CPA need not worry.
IAMB officials were meeting in Paris on Monday and were not available for comment.
Some of KPMG's most damning criticisms were of the State Organisation for Marketing Oil, responsible for the sale of Iraq's most crucial asset. Oil sales, which go into the US-controlled fund, have topped $10bn since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. Somo's only record of barter transactions was "an independent database, derived from verbal confirmations gained by Somo staff", the report found.
The CPA declined to address the KPMG report, saying only that it "has been and will continue to discharge its responsibilities under the Iraqi Development Fund". One Iraqi minister due to take office on June 30 told the FT he and many colleagues felt "let down by how the CPA has controlled resources".
#5
United Nations-mandated auditors have sharply criticised the US occupation authority for the way it has spent more than $11bn in Iraqi oil revenues and say they have faced "resistance" from coalition officials. In an interim report, obtained by the Financial Times, KPMG says the Development Fund for Iraq, which is managed by the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority and channels oil revenue into reconstruction projects, is "open to fraudulent acts".
Ohhhhh wowie, the corrupt, dictator-coddling UN is concerned about what WE are doing with Iraq's oil revenue and is worried about F-R-A-U-D????? (sheesh, the nerve of some people)
#9
Yet another organization descending into self-parody. The world is starting to resemble a Saturday Night Live skit from the Belushi, Akroyd, Chase, Radner and Curtain era.
On June 1, DEBKA-Net-Weekly exclusive military sources uncovered the largest single purge in the annals of Syriaâs armed forces that was carried out on the orders of President Bashar Assad.
Ok, it's DEBKA reporting, but this is the kind of thing they're good at.
Forty percent of the staff officers with the general command in Damascus were dismissed or forced into retirement; half the Syrian divisional commanders in Syria and Lebanon relieved of their duties â laid off or assigned to minor staff positions in Damascus and elsewhere. The top level of the Syrian air force has been peeled off and replaced with younger men â except for the top commander and the head of its intelligence branch.
Assad getting tired of those Israeli flybyes?
Hundreds of officers were swept away in the purge - according to our sources, on the advice of General Ali Aslan, the late Hafez Assadâs most trusted military adviser. Aslan, now retired, advised Basharâs father for years on how to keep his minority Allawi sect firmly in control of the regime and the opposition from raising its head. Assad Seniorâs agents were planted deep inside in Muslim and Palestinian groups In the 1970s and 1980s in obedience to one of Aslan tactics.
Ah, the Grand Vizier, advising the young prince from the shadows. How very Arab.
Assad juniorâs purge appears to be aimed primarily at cutting military spending by slashing its largest budget, namely wages. But he also needs to solidify his grip on the military. Last month, Mustafa Tlas, who at 72 is still regarded as Syriaâs strongman, retired as defense minister. Aslan warned the president against further direct moves against Tlas, but rather to take advantage of his exit to cut him off from his power bases in the armed forces.
I'll wager the people who got sacked were Mustafa's favorites. Could be a dangerous move, being out of work gives them more time to plot.
DEBKA-Net-Weeklyâs military experts do not see the purge leading to radical changes in the Syrian army command structure, the deployment of Syrian divisions or the firepower available to its antiquated military. At best, Syriaâs warplanes and navigation systems date back to the mid-1980s. The navyâs missile boats are in such bad shape that no competent task force can be mustered. Quite simply, Assad is short of the cash to modernize his military. The only fully functional segment of Syriaâs defense system are the military industries and military intelligence.
Large funded by Iranian money, Syrian factories turn out short-to-medium-range Scud C and D surface-to-surface missiles, various types of weaponized chemical substances and some biological warfare items. Our military sources note that, for the relatively modest investment of $45 million to $60 million a year, Iran has acquired control over the most sophisticated sectors of Syriaâs military industries. They are available as Tehranâs backdoor suppliers of missiles, non-conventional weapons and ammunition for any contingency, such as the Iranian armed forces or a surrogate, like the Hizballah, being called upon to fight in a part of the Middle East that is far from the Islamic Republicâs borders.
Like Israel, perhaps? The Iranians would be happy to fight to the last Syrian.
DEBKAfileâs military analysts note that while the Syrian army is not directly mixed up in US-insurgent warfare in Iraq, its military intelligence remains a separate and potent instrument of the Assad regimeâs strategic policies. This entity is currently proactive on four fronts:
1. Iraq. Syrian military intelligence supports the Baathist guerrilla campaign by recruiting, training and dispatching combatants to Iraq from among the terrorist groups Assad sponsors such as the Lebanese Hizballah and such radical Palestinian organizations as the Jihad Islami and Jibrilâs Popular Front â General Command. Recruiting also takes place in Syrian city slum districts and among Palestinian refugee camp inmates with Syrian citizenship.
2. Palestinian front. Syrian military intelligence engages in smuggling on this border too â arranging for Hizballah and radical Palestinian combatants, arms and money to infiltrate the West Bank via the Golan Heights.
3. Hizballah. The military and intelligence alignment between Syria and the Hizballah is as close as ever. As we reported last week, the sporadic attacks the Lebanese Shiite group has been carrying out against northern Israel were at the behest of President Assad who demanded an escalation of war tension.
4. Al Qaeda. Damascus persists in disavowing involvement in al Qaedaâs operations and its adherentsâ participation in the Iraq war. Nonetheless, Syria is still the main highway taken by Osama bin Ladenâs followers and other anti-US combatants for entering Iraq.
Yes, we've noticed.
Assad appeared to step briefly out of character last month when he ordered arrests of volunteers for the Iraq war, including al Qaeda members. The aberration did not stem from penitence but was the outcome of an in-family Assad episode that came to a head in the purported April 27 terrorist attack in the Maza diplomatic quarter of Damascus. The strike was carried out with the familiar terrorist weapons of a car bomb, machine guns, grenades and rockets; the (empty) UN offices were set on fire and the Canadian embassy targeted. The only odd feature was its location in the state capital of a prime terrorist sponsor. A thick blanket of secrecy was quickly drawn over the episode. Initially, DEBKAfile and DEBKA-Net-Weekly identified the perpetrators as Syrian al Qaeda members back from fighting in Fallujah. Since then, our sources discovered that, although al Qaeda members were involved, this was not an authentic terror attack.
Ah ha, just as we speculated. It was a phoney attack.
European-based Rifaat Assad, Basharâs uncle has a running dispute with the owners of a building and parcel of land in the al Maza quarter. Claiming they cheated him out of the property, he hired al Qaeda heavies living in Damascus as hit-men to blow up his opponentâs family home and make it look like a terror attack. The president, once he caught on to his uncleâs game, scrambled to hush it up before the full extent of al Qaeda operatives sheltering in Damascus was discovered.
It was a real estate deal gone bad? You know, it's so far out, it has to be true. They do tend to overreact to things like this.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/22/2004 1:34:08 PM ||
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bwahhaaahaaa! He's purged 40% of his trained officers and made them his enemies - smart move. He's running short of cash and Iran doesn't seem to be fronting him all he needs. He's filling his army with untrained fodder.
Sooo...not looking good for ol' Assad if you ask me.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 14:20 Comments ||
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#2
He's purged 40% of his trained officers and made them his enemies
What kind of damn purge are these morons running?
Posted by: ole unca joe ||
06/22/2004 15:19 Comments ||
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#3
Overthrow in Syria couldn't cost more than $1B. If we don't have agents in Syria than we may be the only country in the world who hasn't infiltrated Damascus. Maybe we could throw Guyana or Grenada a bone and rent their Syrian agents for a week or two. Tell them we only want the WMD and custody of anyone who speaks in Pharsi when clubbed between the testicles.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/23/2004 2:01 Comments ||
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Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 12:23 ||
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TEHRAN (Reuters) - Eight British sailors seized in Iranian waters could be released soon if investigations show Royal Naval or Air Forces are approaching the border their incursion was not ill-intended which we initially suspected due to their heavy armament, an Iranian military official said, blinkng potentially defusing a serious military attack diplomatic spat.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
06/22/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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#2
LOL, Mr. D.
Is an intention to kill mullahs a "good" or "bad" intention, I wonder?
Posted by: Matt ||
06/22/2004 14:01 Comments ||
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#3
Rag'ed babboons parading UK naval guys in Tehran.
IRANâS state-run television today broadcast images of eight members of Britainâs Royal Navy blindfolded after their arrest for straying into Iranian waters near Iraq. The new footage broadcast by the Arabic-language satellite channel Al-Alam - a branch of the Islamic republicâs official television network - showed the eight troops in a more uncomfortable position than shown in previous broadcasts.
The troops, detained yesterday by Iranâs Revolutionary Guards, were shown sitting on the ground in a small room with their eyes covered by cloth. Their hands and feet were not bound, and they were dressed in military fatigues. In previous images shown by the channel, the eight men were shown sitting on sofas in what appeared to be an office.
Video may have been shown out of sequence, or they are staging the shots for difference audiences.
The channel also showed images of captured equipment, including an array of weapons, communication equipment and cameras.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 9:50:44 AM ||
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Ain't it a warcrime when the US lets prisoners be shown on TV? Eh?
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/22/2004 10:09 Comments ||
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#2
Iran, you do NOT fuck with Britain. That is a BAD IDEA.
And especially not when they've already got military forces in the vicinity.
This is almost as stupid as those Palestinians punching armed IDF soldiers.
#3
My thoughts entirely - I really wish we still had balls though - looks like Jack Straw's being all cosy with the Iranian Ambassador. Just go bomb their nuclear site if we get nowhere, Jack.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
06/22/2004 10:26 Comments ||
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#4
#1 got to remember the whinning, victimized losers we are dealing with...
iran is really playing her hand badly - a week after the EU slaps iran about her nukes this happens..all iran is doing is making it easier for Bush for the eventual confrontation...
really stupid from their perspective..there are many avenues to strike back that are less overt..
Posted by: Dan ||
06/22/2004 10:30 Comments ||
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And would losing Iraqi oil really drive the price to $60? As the price goes over $40 you create all sorts of incentives for additional production, for conservation, etc.
#10
And would losing Iraqi oil really drive the price to $60? As the price goes over $40 you create all sorts of incentives for additional production, for conservation, etc.
Shutting down the flow from Iraq will demonstrate the terrorists can shut down the flow from elsewhere, and the fear of that will drive prices up. Ledeen's point was that the price of oil isn't being driven by current supply and demand, but rather by fear of a diminished supply in the future. An attack on Iraq would increase that fear and thus increase the "terror premium".
And I'm still curious as to the price point that will re-open American wells. Still lots of them around...
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/22/2004 11:01 Comments ||
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#11
I think it was foolish of them to arrest these guys because they strayed 1/2 mile into their territory. Thats only a 1000yds. Not allot. They could have easily escorted them out.
If I were calling the shots, I'd have aircraft and larger ships like frigates cross a 1/2 into their territory - but then again I would have invaded Iran first instead of Iraq because they are a larger, more open sponser of terror than Iraq ever was.
These guys will be paraded on TV and in court. Iran will find them guilty. They will be used as barganing chips to buy time for their nuke program and then "graciously" released in a good will jesture.
This is similar to the situation we had with the Chinese and our P-3 having to land on Hunan Island.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/22/2004 11:16 Comments ||
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#12
$60/bl oil?
Maybe. You see it doesn't take a vast number of people to change this election. All you need is a few idiots with a lack of perspective in a few states with enough electoral votes to cause Kerry to win.
These voters, with brains resembling starchy vegetables, are the philosophical descendants of the people who brought down the Roman Empire in the 4th and 5th century AD.
You see these are the kinds of folks who supported the general whou would bring the circus to town. So, General Kerry brings the circus to town, and a few years later the town is overrun, and all women are forced to wear burkas at the point of a gun.
These voters shouldn't have the right to vote because they haven't the intellectual capacity to vote. They would have us all killed. They don't care about the future. Only about the fact that if We and Britain microwave some Iranian mullahs, gas may be $3.50-$4.00/gal for awhile. But, it will pass if we do the right thing.
The mainstream of the Jackass party want their special interest groups to get a handout, and us to become like the Europeans. What's happening to Europe?
France? Germany? The lowly Low Countries? Socialandistanavia? Yeech!
So Kerry has serendipity. There is 35% (the sycophants) who Hate Pres Bush.
The next 30%, mostly shallow retards, would take us down because the immediate price of gas is high and they want to blame the wrong people.
So, I say this. F*** it. Give the Towel wrap heads 48 hours to free the Brits and their boats, or, the precious nuke plant is glowinmg rubble.
Period.
Then if the whineasses in the congress make trouble. Let them. We still have 4-1/2 months before the election. We have time to make a point, and set things right.
RC: My sense is its the uncertainy about Saudi flow thats creating the risk premium. The market know Iraqi production can go down, and does temporarily from time to time. Is the market really going to take a terror attack on Iraqi facilities as a sign of a possible attack on Saudi facilities? I dont know.
I really should follow the oil market more closely.
#14
It will be interesting to see how Blair plays this. I think it was a planned slap in the face at Britain. On the one hand, there wasn't much these eight guys could do but surrender; on the other hand, the Royal Navy isn't used to taking crap from ragbag countries like Iran. Looks like Blair wants to stall for time, which may be the prudent move. Checked the on-line Brit papers and, except for the Telegraph and Guardian, they're all chockablock with Euro 2004 and nary a peep about this incident. Jeez. So much for national pride. If the Iranians put these guys on trial, Blair's in a pickle. Hate to say it, but I agree with Anonymous 4021 and Howard. I don't think Blairs got the balls to do anything. They wouldn't have pulled this s**t if Maggie was still PM. Also agree with various other posters -- the showdown with Iran is coming. This would be the perfect time to get it under way.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
06/22/2004 11:35 Comments ||
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#15
They Brits can give them a longer deadline (emphasis on the "dead", here) if they set sail from Britain rather than uncorking the whoopass from the locally positioned forces.
#16
PS -- I noticed the Brit prisoners were wearing military fatigues. Do any of you UK readers know if this is RN policy? Or were these guys Marines?
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
06/22/2004 11:47 Comments ||
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#17
Last comment, and I hate to say this. When you slash the military budget every year, eventually it catches up with you. Seems like the UK's military options are limited here, unless the US helps out. On the other hand, that wouldn't have stopped Britain in other times.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
06/22/2004 12:05 Comments ||
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#18
I seriously doubt that this will end up with shooting. This isn't a big enough deal to come to blows over. The Iranians would have to do something crazy like execute these guys before any war could be justified.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/22/2004 12:06 Comments ||
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#19
If ever there was a tailor made causus belli, this is it.
It goes beyond belief how Europe considers whatever financial gain to be had from arming Iran as something that outweighs the insane danger of the mullas gaining possession of nuclear weapons.
#20
Ledeen's point was that the price of oil isn't being driven by current supply and demand, but rather by fear of a diminished supply in the future
Without disagreeing with that point, I think Liberalhawk makes the big picture point that the Iranians are missing.
$60/per gallon oil bursts the dream bubble of the liberal left - they tend to think of things in idealistic rather than realistic terms. When it hits their pocketbook, they will be the first to scream that it's Bush's fault for not finding domestic sources ...sooner.
Perhaps the Iranians don't grasp that a Bush loss in November doesn't mean that the Representatives in the Senate and the house won't call to immediately open Alaska or TN, or to locate other sources.
Good ol' American ingenuity dictates that we will suddenly tap solar, hydrogen, gas and other fuel sources incrementally with the decreases in our thermostats. The faster the thermostats go down, the faster we'll get there.
Iranians will learn the true nature of competitive markets just like the buggy makers did in the 1900s.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 12:13 Comments ||
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#21
even if no war (and there are already reports Iran has agreed to release the men) this doesnt improve UK-Iran relations at a sensitive time in the nuke discussions. The politics on Iran has been different than Iraq - UK has been siding WITH France and Germany, taking a softer line than the US. All 3 have been embarrassed by the Iranians, and have moved to a slightly firmer position - for Iran to piss off UK now seems like a bad move - which is why I will trust Dan, for now. The Ledeen thesis at least provides SOME explanation.
#22
These guys were captured in a river (Shat al Arab) in inflatable boats that they were delivering to the Iraqis. This is the kind of bush league stunt that you expect from the North Koreans and reflects a Lord of the Flies mentality. Unfortunately this will probably play out much as the Sino-American confrontation over the P3 that the Chinese rammed and then forced to land. I don't think that either the US or the UK is ready to pull the pin on the Iranians just yet.
#23
The Ledeen thesis makes sense only if the actions towards Iraq are a small part of the plan. Loss of Iraqi production alone will not do that much to affect the price of oil. Disruptions to Iraqi production seem to be already factored in to the price. It only becomes significant in the event of a perfect storm: civil war in Venezuela, Saudi, and Nigeria. Then, if they really want to cause trouble, they should attack Pemex,
#26
Blindfolded? You mean like in G'bay sensory deprivation loss of human rights kind of blindfold? Or the Abu G type of black hood to emasculate you better kind of blindfold?
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
06/22/2004 13:28 Comments ||
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#27
you guys aren't much admirers of internaional law huh? They entered Iranian waters illegaly they were arrested. End of story. If they're found not to have been spying or conducting some operation they'll be released. Your answers in every single thread is "Uh let's just bomb 'em'" Take up boxing or loose your virginity. It could go a long way in reducing your xenophobia!!
Posted by: Ali Abdel Hafiz ben americani al ignorami aziz el alb mahmoud mustafa ben shoo bee doo ||
06/22/2004 13:45 Comments ||
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#28
Here again, the Ledeen stuff is accurate as far as the boats are concerned (which is why the Iranians detained them, even at the risk of damaging relations with the UK), though RWV is also right on the bigger picture. I e-mailed Fred some interesting tidbits (though not on this particular subject) a couple days ago, but let me try and make this as clear as I can with respect to the other parties you named:
* Venezuela is more or less through Chavezâs Cuban connections and one of Castroâs best buddies these days are the Iranians.
* In Saudi Arabia, the al-Qaeda activity (with assistance from some royals) is being actively directed by Saif al-Adel. And where is he? Iran.
* The same forces that helping al-Qaeda to stir up shit in the Magic Kingdom are the same people pushing for shaâriah in northern Nigeria â the Nigerian Taliban was their opening round with a little help from the Sudanese.
One of the things that you learn very fast once you get access and start working on the inside is just how right we Rantburgers were on so many points. Cookies all around.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 13:47 Comments ||
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#29
Anybody who can find a connection between "International Law" and Iran is entitled to a free stein of Bavarian beer!
#30
If the British soldiers are lucky, the worst that will happen to them will be what happened to those at AG.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 13:53 Comments ||
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#31
well the one thing I dont understand Dan, is why the admin has said not a word in public about Saif Al Adel and Saad Bin Laden being in Iran. I can only presume that the intention is to stabilize Iraq before "laying out a case" against Iran, meanwhile hoping that Iran will solve itself through internal dissent. But it would seem to me that waiting too long will undercut the credibility of the material.
Feel free to e-mail me. 90% of this stuff is open-source, so don't worry about anything. It's just a matter knowing which sources are true and which aren't.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 14:05 Comments ||
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#33
But wait! Aren't these Brits prisoners of war protected by the Geneva Convention from having photos and videos taken of them?
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/22/2004 16:03 Comments ||
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#34
Capt America - That only applies to the US.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/22/2004 16:13 Comments ||
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#35
international law?? now that is funny in anything connected with iran -
TGA - now that is bet that will never be paid...
Posted by: Dan ||
06/22/2004 17:53 Comments ||
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#36
These guys aren't out yet?
I'm not in charge but, if I was, it'd be a bad, noisy night in Teheran tonight.
#37
you guys aren't much admirers of internaional law huh? They entered Iranian waters illegaly they were arrested. End of story.
Actually, the waterway in question has long been disputed territory. Professionals might have handled it differently. But the IRG are selected based on their ideology, not professionalism.
If they're found not to have been spying or conducting some operation they'll be released.
I would expect that to be the case. There might be a bit of... difficulty otherwise.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/22/2004 01:32 ||
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For an exchange to be successful, it requires both buyers and sellers. I don't see much of a future for an Iranian exchange, If a regional exchange were a good idea, it would have been set up in the UAE - more centrally located, better transportation, better communications, better amenities, and someplace that buyers can go without fearing for their lives. This is just another fantasy from the alternate reality that is Iran.
Iran is to prosecute eight UK sailors detained for allegedly straying into its territory, state-run TV quotes military sources as saying. Three British naval craft and their crews were seized on Monday in the Shatt al-Arab waterway close to the Iraqi border. Al-Alam television said the men had admitted breaching Iranâs borders. UK diplomats have been holding talks with Iran about what a spokesman described as an "unfortunate mistake". British diplomatic staff in Tehran have requested immediate consular access to the men but there has been no response so far, nor have they been told where the men are or who is holding them. Tuesday morning saw Foreign Secretary Jack Straw speak to Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharazzi. BBC Tehran correspondent Jim Muir says the two men have a good relationship, but it is unclear whether their conversations have yielded anything. Iranian interrogators have been questioning the eight men, who the British defence ministry says were part of a Royal Navy training team delivering a boat from the Iraqi port of Umm Qasr to Basra. A spokesman in London said Britain had been using boats to train the Iraqi river patrol service, and the craft may have strayed across the maritime border by mistake. "The waterway runs over a mile wide. The border runs pretty much down the middle of it," he said. The boats were unarmed but the crews were carrying their personal weapons, he added.
TV pictures
Iranian television has been showing pictures of the men, dressed in military fatigues, sitting on sofas and armchairs in what was obviously an office, although there was no indication of its location. They looked serious but were clearly unharmed. Our correspondent says that so far, the situation has not had a major impact on the complex Iranian political scene, despite the fact that relations between Iran and the UK are currently as sensitive as ever. State-run television has been giving it minimal coverage and only a few of the Iranian newspapers give the story front-page treatment. BBC diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall describes UK-Iranian relations as a difficult balancing act, with British forces in southern Iraq apparently under orders to keep border tensions with Iran to a minimum. The affair comes at a time when relations between the two countries are tenser than usual. Hardliners have staged a series of angry demonstrations outside the British embassy in Tehran in recent weeks to protest at the occupation of Iraq. Britain has also been strongly criticised too for its role in helping draft a tough resolution on Iran at the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna last week.
Pre 30th June chest beating from a regime on the wane.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
06/22/2004 4:17:23 AM ||
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#1
This makes so little sense (at least not to me). Why anger the Brits and, by extension, the US? Is all this simply for domestic consumption?
Posted by: Jonathan ||
06/22/2004 10:38 Comments ||
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#2
I think it was foolish of them to arrest these guys because they strayed 1/2 mile into their territory. Thats only a 1000yds. Not allot. They could have easily escorted them out.
If I were calling the shots, I'd have aircraft and larger ships like frigates cross a 1/2 into their territory - but then again I would have invaded Iran first instead of Iraq because they are a larger, more open sponser of terror than Iraq ever was.
These guys will be paraded on TV and in court. Iran will find them guilty. They will be used as barganing chips to buy time for their nuke program and then "graciously" released in a good will jesture.
This is almost identical to the situation we had with the Chinese and our P-3 having to land on Hunan Island.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/22/2004 11:14 Comments ||
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#3
I'm with Yosemite Sam on this one although I hope I'm wrong and that all will be smoothed over in a few days. I doubt the Iranians are worried about any British military action. The Mullahs know Blair would be blamed for over-reacting, and you can bet the Turbans are being seen in the Islamic world as kicking sand in the Brits faces and are being praised around dinner tables and cafes for doing so. You don't think they remember the adulation they got for holding the US Embassy personnel for +400 days? Sorry folks, despite the desire I read on Rantburg for the Brits to do something, it won't happen.
One other thing. Did the RN guys just pull over and let themselves be boarded like they thought nothing would happen? Did they think it was just a traffic stop? Here's your ticket, sir, just be more careful next time. Just what are the rules of engagement that RN higher-ups have told sailors? I know what would have been the reaction of the crew in "Captain and Commander"
Posted by: Michael ||
06/22/2004 11:41 Comments ||
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#4
Michael-
In fairness, some of the Pasadaran boats are VERY well armed, with 40mm cannon, RPGs, and etc. Some of them were known for shooting up supertankers on a regular basis. At best, these would have been FRG hulls and may have been RHIB boats, and we know already all they were carrying were their personal weapons.
No ROE - no matter how well laid out or comprehensive - can cover that awful moment when you are outnumbered and outgunned and know that the men under your command will die in a heartbeat when you resist. That is a hell of a responsibility to be faced with, and men far, far better than I have made the call to surrender and hope for the best. The RN officer in charge must be suffering the tortures of the damned right now. Let's wait to hear his report before we ask why he 'just pulled over'.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
06/22/2004 13:13 Comments ||
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#5
I'm with you Mike. It was a bit over the top, I guess. I'm not asking the sailors to sacrifice themselves before overwhelming force and anyone who knows the RN understands their guys are superbly trained and motivated. It's just frustrating not to know what the other side has in its arsenal. Furthermore, are the Brits the only Coalition forces using the Shatt al Arab? What about US Navy/CG? Also frustrating to think that the good guys got outsmarted by the Iranians.
Posted by: Michael ||
06/22/2004 13:52 Comments ||
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Iran will prosecute eight British naval personnel seized in its waters, state television said on Tuesday, turning what seemed a minor border incident into a serious diplomatic spat. The British government immediately demanded an explanation from Tehran of the television report. British officials have had neither access to the men, detained on Monday with their three boats, nor told where they are being held. Quoting unnamed Iranian military sources, Iranâs Arabic language news channel al Alam said the men would be prosecuted on charges of "illegally entering Iranâs waters." "The British confessed that they were arrested when they were inside Iranâs waters," it said.
A Foreign Office spokesman in London said British officials were "trying to get the Iranians to explain" the report. British Prime Minister Tony Blairâs spokesman said: "We want to resolve this situation as quickly as possible ... We have asked for full details and access to them." Iranian officials have neither confirmed nor denied the al Alam report on prosecuting the Britons. Political analysts doubt Iran will press charges. "There is nothing in Iranâs interests to go prosecuting these people," said Ali Ansari, Middle East expert at University of Exeter, who pointed out that Britain, unlike the United States, has tried to engage with Iranâs leaders in recent years. "I think thereâll be a couple of high-level contacts ... Thereâll be a bit of diplomatic toing-and-froing, then theyâll be released ... in a matter of days," he said.
Iranâs Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi has told British counterpart Jack Straw he would personally look into the matter. Al Alam broadcast footage showing the British men dressed in military fatigues sitting in a room. It said their small patrol boats contained weapons, cameras for spying and detailed maps of areas of Iraq and Iran. None of the Britons spoke during the broadcast. Britainâs Defense Ministry said the Britons were involved in training Iraqi police and had been delivering a small craft to the Iraqi Riverine Patrol Service when arrested. The boats carried only the sailorsâ personal weapons, it said.
Iranâs Foreign Ministry has said the men are being interrogated to ascertain why they entered the Iranian side of the narrow Shatt al-Arab waterway separating Iran from Iraq. A British military source acknowledged the British boats may have strayed into Iranian waters. "It was quite a confused situation. The weather was appalling and this happened in a confined stretch of water," he said. Britain has had a rocky relationship with Iran since the 1979 Islamic revolution and tensions have flared again in recent months over Britainâs involvement in Iraq and its criticism of Iranâs cooperation with U.N. nuclear inspectors. A senior Iranian political source said the latest incident reflected internal policy divisions in the Islamic state. While deeply opposed to the U.S.-led war and occupation of Iraq, Iran has turned a blind eye in the past to minor incursions by foreign aircraft and boats on its western border. "The government policy is one of tolerance, but some groups are pursuing an isolationist stance," the source said.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
06/22/2004 8:32:22 AM ||
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Iran has lashed out at the EU, saying the 25-member bloc should solve its own human rights issues before criticising those of the Islamic Republic. The comments come after the EU warned it was gravely concerned with human rights violations in Iran. In a report, the EU said that little progress had been made in Iran, in spite of efforts to engage the country in dialogue.
In return, Iran condemned the EU for politicising the issue of human rights. Foreign ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told state news agency Irna that the EUâs criticism was unrealistic and "indicates the Unionâs inability to accept transparent dialogue".
"The European Union should learn from the chance of talks with an Islamic state with a rich cultural history and civilization," he is quoted as telling Irna.
An EU delegation in the Iranian capital for talks on human rights had urged Iran to release immediately 40 prisoners of conscience held in detention. The delegation said it was worried by numerous and continued human rights violations.
These include:
The use of torture in prisons and other detention centres
A culture of impunity for perpetrators
The lack of an independent judiciary
The use of the death penalty
Reports of the continued use of amputations and other cruel punishments
A continuing campaign against journalists and intellectuals.
The EUâs report was the result of a fourth round of talks, which began in December 2002, between the EU and Tehran.
Iran said the European Union had its own human rights problems, which include ignoring minoritiesâ rights, discrimination against Muslims, Islamophobia and a lack of rights for refugees. It also said that during talks, the EU had failed to pay attention to repeated human rights violations in Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories.
Despite the EUâs stinging comments, the BBCâs Jim Muir in Tehran says that since the victory of the conservatives in Iranâs controversial general elections in February, there have been signs of progress on human rights, at least superficially. A law banning the use of torture has been approved and the judiciary chief has circulated instructions that proper procedures must be followed during arrests and detentions. Progress on such issues, as well as terrorism and nuclear proliferation, are among the conditions for the possible signing of a trade and co-operation agreement between the EU and Iran.
A lack of progress in talks has been highlighted by international monitoring group Human Rights Watch, which also criticised Iranâs judiciary. In a recent report, the group said the situation in Iran was worse now than at any time since reformist Mohammad Khatami became president in 1997.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/22/2004 12:59:05 AM ||
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#1
"You ignorant infidels. You know nothing about human-rights abuse. Yop must come to Iran and we shall teach you how to abuse human rights more effectively."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 2:27 Comments ||
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#2
Is it just me or are the mullahs a whole lot more bellicose than usual?
#3
Can someone reminds me of the last declarations by the 3 european foreign stooges(Straw, fisher, de villepin) who were so self congratulating about how different they are from those brutal US bullies in getting results by softpower?
Hello dominque?joshka? jack?
still waiting....
#5
On death penalty: Sure, some democracies like the USA also have it -- but most countries having it are tyrannies, and there's hardly any tyranny which doesn't possess it. Death penalty is needed by them, as they're held together by the fear of death, and the idea that individual human life can be sacrificed at the will of state.
On the whole a good analogy may be that insisting on the abolition of the Death penalty in Iran is for the EU what insisting on free market in China is for the USA.
Frenchfregoli> Are you talking about something that actually happened, or something you imagined of happening?
The result is policy chaos. One year after President Bush labeled Iran part of the "Axis of Evil," Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage called Iran a "democracy." Current and former National Security Council officials engage not only with diplomats, but also with members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.
A bipartisan group of senators and congressmen led by Sen. Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania Republican, has dined with Mohammad-Javad Zarif, Iranâs United Nations ambassador. In April 2004, Mr. Specter explained, "We need to establish a dialogue with Iran...We need to have a line of communication to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons." Other Republicans agree, arguing that dialogue with Tehran will foster a move toward human rights and democracy. Unfortunately, engagement comes at a cost both to U.S. national security and to Iranâs internal reform. The Islamic Republic uses the space created by engagement to further its weapons program and demoralize democrats.
The European Union has engaged with Iran for more than a decade, doubling bilateral trade. Iranâs hardliners have used their access to bolster Tehranâs weapons of mass destruction programs. The Islamic Republic has incorporated components purchased from Swiss, German, Italian and Spanish firms into its biological weapons program. In March 2000, the Islamic Republic contracted with the German company Salzgitter Anlagenbau to build a 1,450 kilogram-per-hour phosgene generator. When weaponized, phosgene causes fatal lung damage.
Iranâs nuclear program has also benefited. Michael Eisenstadt, senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, wrote in his 1998 study, "Iranian Military Power: Capabilities and Intentions," that, in addition to overt Russian assistance, Iranian government front companies purchased centrifuges and calutrons from Switzerland and Germany. In March 2001, President Mohammad Khatami signed a $7 billion deal to buy weapons from Russia. A year later, Mr. Khatami boasted, "Today our army is one of the most powerful in the world...It has become self-sufficient, and is on the road to further development."
Reform has withered as dialogue has legitimized the Islamic Republic. Since Mr. Khatamiâs 1997 call for a "Dialogue of Civilizations," capital punishment has doubled, the Islamic Republic has shuttered 80 newspapers, banned private internet service providers, seized thousands of satellite dishes and staged the largest trial of dissidents since the Islamic Revolution. On April 13, 2004, Mr. Khatami formally withdrew two reform bills from Iranâs parliament, even as U.S. and British officials sat down with Iranian colleagues to discuss Iraq. Dialogue proponents argue that engagement encourages internal reformers, but their partners are often insincere.
During his tenure as minister of culture, for example, Mr. Khatami himself banned more than 600 books and 90 publications. An August 2002 telephone survey (randomized by exchange) of 505 Tehran residents found that only 33 percent believed Mr. Khatami had delivered on his reformist promises. On May 9, 2004, a judge in the Western Iranian town of Hamadan suggested that the United Nations Human Rights Commission "should pray for Godâs forgiveness for not issuing any resolution against Iran." Family members of imprisoned dissidents say that Iranian interrogators use published reports of U.S.-Iranian dialogue to deflate and demoralize political prisoners.
Iranians are increasingly becoming convinced that reform cannot resolve fundamental problems in the Islamic Republicâs ideology. Many Iranians have concluded that elections are meaningless. Iranians visiting Iraq in the wake of the February parliamentary elections estimated voter turn-out to be no more than 10 percent in many districts. In 1953 and 1979, Washington supported an unpopular Iranian government against the will of the people. The United States should not make the same mistake three times. Moral clarity has its rewards. There is a direct correlation between President Bushâs condemnation of the Iranian regime and the frequency of pro-democracy demonstrations in Iran.
Dialogue with Iran also comes at a tremendous cost in Iraq. Iranian intentions are belied by the appointment of Hassan Kazemi Qomi to be their charge dâaffaires in Baghdad. Mr. Kazemi is not a diplomat, but rather a member of the Qods Force, an elite unit of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps dedicated to exporting the revolution. Asking Iranian assistance to quell Iraqi unrest is akin to asking an arsonist to extinguish a fire. Dialogue legitimizes Iranian activities that have led to the death of American servicemen. An April 2004 Italian military intelligence report submitted to the Italian parliament concluded that the Qods Force is subsidizing firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and Iraqi insurgents to the tune of approximately $70 million monthly. Arabic newspapers report that captured Iranian operatives in British custody have supported the Italian accusations as have Iranian journalists.
Nevertheless, Bush administration National Security Council officials have recently engaged Iranian counterparts in Iraq. Iranian journalist Ardeshir Moaveni suggested discussions focused on trading Iranian assistance in ending the Shia uprising in exchange for mitigation of U.S. pressure on Iranâs nuclear program.
-snip-
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 12:52:03 AM ||
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Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 1:32 Comments ||
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#2
Only a matter of time now. When those strategically place seismic detectors go off from the Iranians first 'yield' test, Israel will crap in their pants: and the US will go nuts with "what to do next". My advice is to give the proverbial 'Green Light' to Sharon to 'neutralize' the situation, and be ready, hell or high water to back him up, if need be. Only allow one retaliatory strike from Iran!!!
#3
Let's not do anything rash until the suicide bombers get underway. Don't let Specter go out alone with the Iranian for a liquid lunch. And tell Armitage to keep his pie hole closed.
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/22/2004 2:39 Comments ||
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#4
Referring to the last part of the original: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Faster, please.
Posted by: Michael ||
06/22/2004 9:29 Comments ||
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#5
It's always fascinating to hear the deep thoughts of pure voyeurs as they glibly critique those who must actually accomplish things and will be held accountable to those who appointed them.
#6
.com, does this mean that you support dialogue with Iran even though the mullahs, and North Korea alike, have consistently used such time consuming diplomatic exchanges as a fig leaf for prolonged stalling while they fabricate nuclear weapons?
Iran's Islamic government has displayed absolutely nothing but bad faith in all of their dealings with the outside world. Their domestic policies are an even greater trainwreck of human rights violations and financing international terrorist groups.
Aside from direct military intervention, what other modes of defusing their headlong rush towards nuclear armaments exist? While enticing, covert support for an internal rebellion may not achieve success within the limited timeframe required to ensure that Iran does not fabricate any nuclear devices.
Posted by: Michael ||
06/22/2004 13:55 Comments ||
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#8
We all are, Michael, to some degree. But my favorites are those glibly calling for military action and bashing Bush because he can't microwave this problem - without taking into account that little thing known as reality - and in particular, the disingenuous among us.
I am no fan of the Black Hats / Mad Mullahs. I have been an advocate of decapitating that regime, posted numerous times here on RB over the last 18+ months, because they have made the cassis belli for us, IMO. Rafsanjani and Khomeini have both made proclamations regards what they will do with it as soon as they get their hands on a missile, guidance, and nuke pkg: wipe out Israel. Recall "tick... tock.." posts.
Evolving simultaneously over this period from when the Iranians started making these statements, upgraded their Shahad-3 (into a Shahad-4, actually with the req'd range, via NorK), received significant assistance from Russia overtly on Nuke Plants and older centrifuges, and even more covertly from Pakistan (nuke tech, incl design plans for P2 centrifuges), other reality factors have risen which deserve prominent billing on the program...
Were the US not so bitterly divided by hate politics, and were this not an election year, the probability of military action, sooner rather than later, would be dramatically higher. Because of domestic politics, we sit here on our hands waiting for November.
Those who demand action now, remarkably, include people who contribute to the fact that Bush's hands are tied by domestic politics.
Consider, if you will, the damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't position he is in. The Hue & Cry⢠should he opt for either the short-term objective, to try to destroy the nuke production facilities, much less the long-term objective of regime change, would undoubtedly result in a screech level we haven't seen in the US since Lincoln's re-election campaign. Impeachment bills would be as common as the LLL articles we comment on here in RB.
My point is that, since we are not anywhere near all on the same page, pulling together to fight the WoT in all its manifestations, and the Iranian Mad Mullahs getting their hands on deliverable nukes qualifies in my eyes, much of the hawkish stuff posted is moot - and total bullshit when posted by those who are party to the division and bitterness.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/22/2004 14:42 Comments ||
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#10
Hey, YS - :)
Y'know, I was wondering... If it had been 8 US sailors nabbed by Iran, do you think that would make any difference? The bile factor would double hereabouts, but Bush would be in the same spot Blair's in: public support so bitterly divided that any action would result in cries of too much! too little! and inappropriate response! (from those who weren't sure but hate Blair so they swing for the fence anyway).
Truly sad that our fifth column is fat and thick with looney groups of every stripe and publicized with sober-sounding supportive editorial agendas across the majority of MSM. It just boggles.
#11
.com, why do you think we haven't seen action by Israel by now? The mullahs getting nukes is bad for us, but death for Israel.
Posted by: Matt ||
06/22/2004 15:31 Comments ||
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#12
Because they're not "there" yet... I would wager that intelligence on Iran is quite good, especially relative to other ME countries. Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports (no I didn't save the link), I believe that humint and first-hand (or second-hand intel from a trusted source) is the most valuable kind.
You're right - for Israel it's life and death - and if they thought the Black Hats were ready to follow through on their threats - I am certain that they would execute a strike plan. I'm sure they would hope for assistance from us (refueling or whatever their plans call for), but even if a one-way trip I have no doubt that pilots would line up to volunteer. Unless, that is, they have some means other than a mud-mover mission with piloted aircraft. Every day in Israel is potentially the last, thanks to Islam.
#13
.com, you're right about the humint being the best; one of the biggest mistakes the CIA has made (not sure when, not as up on the history of the agency as I'd like to be, but probably starting in the '80s) was to downsize manpower in favor of automated methods. Satellites and listening stations are good for some things, but they can't - and never will - replace a keen eye and a good ear and a disillusioned man willing to talk.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/22/2004 15:44 Comments ||
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#14
Thanks for the very nice thread. I do disagree with .com a little. More than a year ago I wrote to all my congress people as to the advisability of a short, sharp military action against the Iranian Nuclear facilities...to even holding the ground for a week or so to ensure that the destruction was complete.
However, this would have to be accompanied by sincere, very public apologies, over and over, for what was done. But also made clear that it would be done again, in any other country, if necessary.
Sorry, so sorry, and with some compensation for the Iranian families of those killed.
#16
Unless, that is, they have some means other than a mud-mover mission with piloted aircraft.
Subs? They must have a few.
Posted by: Rafael ||
06/22/2004 23:18 Comments ||
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#17
Dearest Mr. Dot and Mr. Com...lol
Alas, work is only allowing me breif moments here, (fortunantly, I like very much what I do), but you mentioned the other day, "a bumpy ride ahead..."
Little did we know. The killing of the Korean today affected me much more than Nick Berg or that of Mr. Johnson. For whatever reason, his taped plea for life, really got to me...(I am so affected I can't talk about it).
Then there was the capture of the British sailors, and Prince Abdullah's comment re the Jews again...all I can say, over and over, is WTF?
And what the F*** was the Korean doing in Fallujah? The mind boggles....I hope that the news reports were just in error and that he was well outside the city when captured.
Reagardless, as Cato the Elder would say at the opening of every Senate session, "Carthage must be destroyed!" So I am coming to the believe that Fallujah, and all of it, must be destroyed.
But with apologies...Sorry, but we are going to squeeze Fallujah dry...within three days, everyone with a gun will be killed. Very simple, and we are sorry...really. But it will be done.
As to the Black Turbans? Shit, there has been floated the idea of a strike on the Revolutionaly Council when sitting in full session, followed by the occupation the nuclear facilities.
#18
Traveller - I hear what you say about the Skor - I hit the mute when they played his screaming pleas. I'm sorry, but there's just no way I could ever give them such satisfaction - the hatred would give bravado, false or not. His death was foreordained, of course, regardless of the dance. Much less dangerous for them to kill him - within hours - all they need to do the tape the scripted garbage they pre-planned.
The FoxNews people say that Al Zarqawi claims to have 10 more hostages - and it seems there are, indeed, at least that many more missing non-terrorist types. Expect the worst, you won't be disappointed.
Re: Iran. Anything less than regime change is a replay of Gulf War I, IMHO. We'll be back in 3, 5, 8 yrs to do it all over again, complete with the sniping and back-biting regards not doing it when all the men & materiel were in place -- plus the loss of any possibility of surprise. There was a thread here a few days ago where I attempted to enlist some input on what to do with Iran. This is the link. It didn't work out that any assistance was forthcoming, unless political diatribe would scare them into running away, but you prolly recall some posts I made back upon a time. You know how much I loves the Black Hats!
Anyway, Comment #18 is where I take a shot at a first-pass analysis, logic, and choose an option and outline some action. You might be interested in helping me with it, should my logic about Gulf War I ring true to you. If not, well, it was worth a shot!
#19
Sorry, .com, but I disagree with your censure of "voyeurs" as you refer to critics of President Bush's PC view of curing the Arab world of terrorist predilictions by offering the ME a taste of democracy.
Of course, the country is divided, and why is that not legitimate? Not all of us believe as George Bush believes that the answer to combating terrorism is to offer Muslims democracy...of course, a few thousand American GI's have to be lost in the course of this wild experiment and then there is also the matter of $87 billion dollars...no worries...all religions, all cultures, all races are on the same footing when it comes to valuing democracy over monotheism...you don't think this innocent wild eyed theory deserves to be criticized?
We cannot do a single thing about Iranian or North Korean transgressions against coalition countries -we need to swallow everything either country shoves in our faces because the world's policeman is over extending giving an IV of democracy to ungrateful Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq and the other Western nations are busy debating the vitues of same sex marriage and socialized medicine blah, blah. We should all get accustomed to the taste of humble pie because there is more where this is coming from...
Posted by: rex ||
06/23/2004 0:13 Comments ||
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#20
Aw shit. 3 minutes. That's it? A summary rejection? No real-world analysis of the situation, no working through what's actually possible - instead of what would make you personally feel better? Just a rehash of your personal vanity view - certainly sans substance?
Was that just too much for you to read? Or was it the "comprehension" part that was too much of a strain... I see you spent 3 WHOLE MINUTES on it... and obviously much of that typing your regurgitated opinion. Excellent job. Thanks so much. I'll know better than to ask you again for your thoughts - you've got 'em already pre-digested and hot-keyed as AP remarked elsewhere.
Is there a virus going around? I've read 300-400 posts just like this over the last 3 or 4 months. All hot 'n bothered and full of invective and dire threats and and and fucking NOTHING of substance. NOTHING constructive. NOTHING actionable. NOTHING noteworthy. NOTHING new.
So RB is actually now a therapy site. Fred should be charging by the hour - it would be damned profitable. I hope you feel better. Funny, these posts ("I want action and I want it NOW!" and "Bush should be doing this!" and "Bush should be saying that!" Blah Blah fucking Blah) sound just like a buncha Paleos seething. Just as effective and worthwhile, too.
Too bad you couldn't have engaged your brain and been constructive - within the confines of reality. That I would've liked to have read. So now I know where you fit into the strata.
#21
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
#12... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging."
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While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
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.com, you know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to make sure what you say is accurate. In addition, you also know that what I posted was completely true. How ironic that you have accused me in disparaging terms of "baiting" when it's you who has done exactly that.
#22
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
#12... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging."
----------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
----------------
.com, you know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to make sure what you say is accurate. In addition, you also know that what I posted was completely true. How ironic that you have accused me in disparaging terms of "baiting" when it's you who has done exactly that.
#23
Nice try .com, but you can better than that. A lot better, one would think.
#12... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "diaparaging."
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
------------------
.com, you know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to ensure the veracity of your own statements. What I posted is correct and you know it very well. Additionally, it is more than a little ironic that you have accused me of "baiting" when it is you who has done exactly that.
#24
Nice try .com, but you can better than that. A lot better, one would think.
#12... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "diaparaging."
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
------------------
.com, you know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to ensure the veracity of your own statements. What I posted is correct and you know it very well. Additionally, it is more than a little ironic that you have accused me of "baiting" when it is you who has done exactly that.
#25
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)Â
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#26
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)Â
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#27
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#28
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#29
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)Â
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#30
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)Â
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#31
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#32
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#33
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#34
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#35
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
#36
Nice try, .com, but you can do better than that. A lot better, one would think.
Google: Results 1 - 5 of about 6 for synthetic aperture rantburg. (0.20 seconds)
... Though I saw Zenster disparage it here yesterday or today as, apparently, less reliable than published reports ...
My words were hardly "disparaging." To wit:
-------------------------
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
-------------------------
You certainly know well enough how to use Google. You also have 0.20 seconds to assure the veracity of what you post. What I posted is true, and you know it. Additionally, it is ironic in the extreme that you should accuse me of "baiting" when it is you who have done exactly that.
Iran-Syria-Lebanon --->the true Axis of evil. The clock is ticking for this Axis to be on their axis ..
The United States is reviewing the threat to Americans in Lebanon posed by Hizbullah. U.S. officials said the State Department has received warnings that U.S. nationals in Lebanon could be abducted or killed in Shiâite neighborhoods of Beirut. The warning also extended to Shiâite communities in southern Lebanon. The warning came amid bloody Shiâite riots in Beirut in May in which at least five people were killed in clashes with Lebanese authorities.
Hizbullah has blamed the U.S. embassy in Beirut for masterminding the violence, Middle East Newsline reported.
Of course, it's always our fault.
"Due to a series of incidents over the past month, the U.S. Embassy has placed coastal areas south of Beirut off-limits to its staff until further notice," the U.S. embassy in Beirut said. "The embassy recommends that private U.S. citizens avoid the same areas if at all possible."
Officials said U.S. diplomats have also been banned from entering Hizbullah strongholds either in Beirut or in southern Lebanon. The embassy has been monitoring Hizbullahâs presence along the Israeli-Lebanese border. On May 20th, 2004, the State Department renewed a warning against traveling to Lebanon. Officials said the warning came in wake of Al Qaida-inspired plots to attack the U.S. embassy and American restaurant chains around Beirut.
On Sunday, however, a U.S. delegation of researchers traveled to southern Lebanon to meet Ferengi Hizbullah bartender commander Nabil Quark. Quark was said to have briefed the delegation on Hizbullahâs regime in the south and its war against Israel.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/22/2004 12:56:49 AM ||
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#1
Quark---the subatomic particle of Lebanon.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/22/2004 2:27 Comments ||
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#2
I hope both Americans that are still in Lebanon wise up and come home.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 2:30 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Tell'm we still have the New Jersey, and we can bring her out of 'mothball' status. The museum can wait!!
#5
I find it hard to understand why any Americans would be in Lebanon® (a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Terrorist Republic of Syria corp.). Nothing in that rathole is worth the trouble.
#6
Reply: For any American kidnapped in Lebanon, we will send 20 cruise missiles each into Tehran and Damascus. If they are killed, the ante goes up with decapacitating strikes on all airfields and military HQ's....oh and that reactor?....
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 9:27 Comments ||
Top||
#7
Methinks Nabil's flavor is Strange. He, and his Aide, Lepton Tau, spun a tale of anti-Israeli and anti-anti-Israeli interactions - and predicted annihilation. Nabil closed on a philosophical note saying, "One day you're up, charmed, the next you're down or strange. The momentum of our efforts is balanced by the opposition. It's a Finnegan's choice - the Color of Force is difficult to confine and Stability is a matter of Nature. Thank you for coming."
#8
I think perhaps we may be getting somewhere. The repulsive dark energy and the Big Rip may explain the odd urge for some in the Middle East to seethe and then explode...
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/22/2004 10:19 Comments ||
Top||
#9
Re: Big Rip - There's still time to put your affairs in order, but it's really gonna hurt.
His name is really Quark? That's funny. Nabil Quark, a very small player in the war on terror, tended to be overlooked in discussions.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 12:37 Comments ||
Top||
#11
I bet the majority of Americans there are dual-passport holders; you know, with names like Antoine Lahoud. Nothing against these folks, but they are there with their Lebanese families and not really in danger, I'd imagine. Now the types named Kerr and Buckley, well, that's another thing...
Posted by: Michael ||
06/22/2004 14:23 Comments ||
Top||
#12
a very small player in the war on terror, tended to be overlooked in discussions
Human-rights organizations around the world are screaming about an non-appealable sentence of more than two years imprisonment handed out to a Syrian who sent an e-mail to a dissident organization. In the American media and in outer-space: if you are pro-freedom, no one can hear you scream.
Syriaâs State Security Court jailed an Internet user for two-and-a-half years yesterday for e-mailing a dissident newsletter. The Association of Human Rights in Syria said Abdel-Rahman Shagouri was imprisoned by the court, whose verdicts cannot be appealed, for "disseminating false information." It condemned the sentence as "a measure which violates the right of exchange of information and freedom of expression," adding: "This is a dangerous precedent and a new step backward for freedoms and human rights."
The association called on Interior Minister Ali Hammoud "not to ratify the verdict of the court and release Shagouri and all political detainees in Syria." Shagouri was arrested in February 2003 for e-mailing a newsletter put out by the banned website www.thisissyria.net. It could have been worse they could have given a certain Californian restauranteur his web address.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 12:34:24 AM ||
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The chairman and another member of the Sept. 11 commission said Sunday that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, two key U.S. allies in the war on terrorism, had turned a blind eye to Al Qaeda operations and operatives in their countries for years before the terrorist group struck the United States in 2001. Republican commissioner John F. Lehman said on the NBC program "Meet the Press" that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia had before Sept. 11 "been paying a kind of blackmail by allowing a kind of free operations" to Islamic radicals affiliated with Al Qaeda, which protected the two nations from attacks within their borders. Commission Chairman Thomas H. Kean, a former GOP governor of New Jersey, made similar remarks on the ABC program "This Week With George Stephanopoulos." "Thereâs no question the intelligence services in Pakistan were very much for the Taliban and worked with the Taliban very, very strongly, because they thought that was a help for them in their war with India and then their problems with Iran," Kean said. "The Taliban and Al Qaeda became almost the same organization, Al Qaeda being the military arm, in some ways, of the Taliban."
The Sept. 11 commission staff concluded in a report that the Saudi government didnât want Bin Laden extradited to their country. And it said it found indications that the Taliban tried to extort money from the Saudi government, with some success.
Kean said the commission concluded that Al Qaeda had stronger ties to other nations than it did to Iraq. "There were a lot more active contacts, frankly, with Iran and with Pakistan than there were with Iraq," he said. The commission did find contacts between Al Qaeda and Iraq, but concluded that there was "no evidence that we can find whatsoever that Iraq or Saddam Hussein participated in any way in attacks on the United States, in other words, on 9/11." But Kean and Lee H. Hamilton, vice chairman of the Sept. 11 commission and a former Democratic congressman from Indiana, said there were no serious conflicts between the commission and the Bush administration on the issue. Hamilton said there were contacts between Husseinâs regime and Al Qaeda, but "there was no collaborative relationship between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein, with regard to the 9/11 attacksâŠ. Iâve looked at these statements quite carefully from the administration â they are not claiming that there was a collaborative relationship between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda, with regard to the attacks on the United States."
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
06/22/2004 1:10:57 AM ||
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#1
We paid taxes for these findings? Demand a rebate fast. But there were great camera shots and plenty of self seeking self engrandizement.
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/22/2004 2:26 Comments ||
Top||
#2
BGO, (Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious), move along ...
From Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty
On 5 June, six Shiâa truck drivers were kidnapped while delivering goods to the Sunni flashpoint city of Al-Fallujah, west of the capital Baghdad. Their mutilated bodies were found outside the city a week later. Relatives of the slain Iraqis who went to Al-Fallujah to try to negotiate their release say foreign fighters and radical Sunni clerics have the upper hand in the town, and that local Iraqi security forces are doing nothing to stop them. ....
The testimony of those Iraqis who visited Al-Fallujah seeking the release of their relatives offers a glimpse into the situation. "The bodies were mutilated, tortured, with electricity, maybe by acid, by fire. Neither a Muslim nor a heathen can do this type of thing."
Al-Khaj Khairi is the uncle of Basim Muhammad Tahresh, one of the Shiâa drivers killed in Al-Fallujah. He ... went to the city seeking to negotiate the release of his nephew and saw Iraqi radicals in control and armed fighters from all over the Arab world. "Some of them are from outside Iraq -- from all Arab countries," he said. "I heard that Omar al-Hadidi, the head of [the radical Islamic movement] Al-Jamaâa al-Salafiya al-Mujahida had [the drivers], and he is an Iraqi. All the groups are under his command, and with them are Arab groups. I saw them with my own eyes -- Tunisians, Sudanese, Yemenis. I saw them with my own eyes."
Khair Abas Abid said his son Ylais and his brother Hammad were also killed in Al-Fallujah. He said he and his relatives went many times to Al-Fallujah to negotiate their release and saw what he described as many armed foreigners roaming the town. "We found Syrians, Palestinians, and we found suicide bombers in the houses, and they call themselves Muslims," he said. "And Al-Fallujah is isolated from all Iraq. The police and the army are collaborating with [local Sunni leader] Abdullah Janabi."
Abid said he spoke with Janabi several times and that Janabi explained that the drivers were being interrogated. But Janabi insisted he did not know who was interrogating them. Negotiations to secure the release of the truck drivers dragged on for more than a week until Abid lost his patience. Several days later, after the talks collapsed, Abid said he was informed that the bodies of his loved ones were in the morgue in the city of Al-Ramadi, some 100 kilometers west of Al-Fallujah. He said his brother had six daughters and two sons. "These people call themselves mujahedin, but can a mujahedin perform this kind of cruelty if he is fighting for a cause of God?" Abid asked. "They are outside of Islam." ....
Khairi ... found the body of his nephew in Al-Ramadiâs morgue. He said it was so mutilated that he was almost impossible to recognize. "The bodies were mutilated, tortured, with electricity, maybe by acid, by fire," he said. "Neither a Muslim nor a heathen can do this type of thing."
Khairi and Abid said fighters in Al-Fallujah accused the truck drivers of being U.S. spies. In fact, they said, they were hired by a Syrian company to transport goods to Iraq. The drivers had made one delivery to Al-Basrah and were due to take a cargo of tents to Al-Fallujah.
Abid said he is certain the drivers were killed for more sectarian reasons. "They were killed because they were Shiâa,â he said. â[There was a tattoo] with the name Ali [the first Shiâa imam] on [my sonâs hand], and it was cut to pieces. My brother was carrying a picture of [Grand Ayatollah Ali al-] Sistani. His body was cut into pieces with a sword. No human in the universe will accept it. The people [who did this] are not humans."
Abid said members of both the local Iraqi police and army were not helpful. He said his younger son, also a driver, was wounded in the attack but managed to escape and sought shelter among Iraqi troops based near Al-Fallujah. He said several U.S. soldiers happened upon the scene and asked what had happened to the injured man. The Iraqi soldiers told the U.S. troops that he was a thief. Abid said that only the presence of the U.S. soldiers saved the young manâs life. "This army is not an Iraqi army," Abid said. ...
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/22/2004 7:40:40 PM ||
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#1
Old news-- but still depressing! THIS cheers me up a bit, though.
#3
It is my hope that the new Iraqi government will shine a bright light on this Sodom and Gomorrah and use the Iraqi army to squash all the cockroaches that come skittering out.
From the Dept. of Things Getting Out of Hand:
Afghan soldiers beheaded four Taliban fighters after guerrillas cut off the heads of an Afghan interpreter for U.S.-led forces and an Afghan soldier, a government commander said on Tuesday. The interpreter and the soldier were beheaded after becoming separated from a patrol of Afghan and U.S.-led foreign troops in the Arghandab district of Zabul province on Monday night, Namatullah Tokhi, commander of the governmentâs 27th division in the province, told Reuters. He said government troops later captured and killed four Taliban guerrillas in the same way. "They cut of their heads with a knife, so when our forces arrested four Taliban, we cut off their heads too."
"sounds so nonchalant. must be how they communicate..."
They speak the "language" of the tribal desert culture, and understand each other better than we do--now the Taliban will have to decide if it's worth it to attack US forces and friends.
#6
Good for the Afghans! Finally someone has the common sense to treat barbarians as they deserve to be treated...with swift and final punishment. The only thing missing from the punishment is sprinking some pork rinds on the bodies of the 4 Taliban fighters[a Christian could do this favor for the Afghans] and filming this exercise and sending the video to Al Jazeera.
I know my suggestion must trouble your cultured and refined sensibilities, LH, but I think that the only way to deal with Islamic barbarians is to give them a taste of their worst nightmare-death with dishonor. Shower every site of terrorism in the world with pork rinds AND most importantly videotape the sacrilege.
The WOT via implementing democracy is a civilized but alas, failed approach. Sorry, LH, but that's the truth.
The West needs to block every Jihadist's ultimate goal to die an "honorable" Islamic death in a very graphic and straight forward way...I'm sick to death of taking the "higher" road with demented murderers and losing innocent lives in the process. For what? In the name of a concept that means the square root of minus one to Islamic terrorists ie. civilized society, democracy and freedom?
We MUST speak a language that terrorists understand - ie. "Dishonor and shame awaits you monsters if you kill or harm any infidel or peaceful Muslim. OBL and his deputies may be safe in their caves, but you Islamic foot-soldiers of death will live in hell forever if you mess with us."
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 16:57 Comments ||
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#7
What's the big deal? Did they put panties on their heads before they were cut off?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/22/2004 17:10 Comments ||
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#8
ex-lib,
i shoulda put my end statement on, which was "maybe we should start taking lessons," but i'd hoped the sarcasm would come through.
that is how they communicate, and that is the only thing they understand. just because we wish them to be civilized and behave the way we in the western world do, isn't going to make it so. i'm with rex, and am sick of taking the high road and not reacting in kind or harsher. as in other posts i've read, it's going to take a lot more western deaths for us as a society to give up on this PC BS.
i'll try to be clearer in future posts (or put a disclaimer in...)
#9
Dishonor and shame? Instead of executing prisoners or the like, let's instead castrate all captured terrorists and tattoo "Terrorist Eunuch" on their forehead and then release them. It's kind of hard to be a glorious martyr when you got captured by the enemy and got your privates snipped off. It's far more insulting I think and blowing themselves up now is no good as the 72 goats virgins won't have anything to do with them after they get 'fixed'.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 17:17 Comments ||
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#11
Look, I for one am not gonna get on the case of our noble Afghan allies, who are after all defending THEIR country. But you KNOW the leftie press will be all over this, and will obscure what the jihadis are doing. I still think the WOT concept is right.
#13
LH: The media will ignore this...people around the world are free to kill each other in great big bleeding batches with no mention. However, should WE put a pair of panties on someone's head well then it's a war crime that needs to lead the news 24/7.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/22/2004 17:31 Comments ||
Top||
#14
I like the ideas of Silentbrick, but you know what? We can walk a little bit higher ground and still accomplish the same thing.
In that part of the world, all you would have to do is tattoo "homosexual Jew-lover" on their foreheads and you'd get the same payoff without creeping into their Neandrathal barbarity.
#15
But given the prevelance that Muslim teachers in these terrorist 'religous' schools and notables like Arafat have for boys already, I'm not sure that'd get the job done.
#16
The MSM does not represent regular Joe/Josephine citizen on the street, #11. For that matter the current crop of PC politicians in Western countries do not represent ordinary citizens on the street.
If George Bush or any other Western leader authorized straight forward dishonoring of jihadist remains with pork, they'd get re-elected with an astounding majority, don't kid yourself. The guy who puts the fear of Allah into Muslim jihad foot soldiers of death, no matter what unsophisticated means employed, would be the hero of the day.
I think it's the flip flops, the PC double talk about "evil doers" that is counter productive and divisive. Who can trust a leader to get the job done on the WOT that refers to barbarians as "evil doers?" Puhleaze. Someone should fire the speech writer that gave George Bush that "evil doer" phrase. It drives most ordinary Americans batty when he uses it over and over again.
The left wing MSM hand wringers would be marginalized by RESULTS effected by a world leader with ba**s to use cost effective common sense ways of dealing with terrorists. How can anyone argue with results? If aforesaid world leader simply explained that jihadists need to be foiled by measures that block their murderous souls from joining Allah and this is the only way to allow peace loving people of all religions and color to defeat demented thugs, that's all it would take.
Picture Reaganesque words coming from the mouth of a Western leader that tells it like it is and offers a solution that costs next to nothing in terms of innocent life or taxpayer money...
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 17:50 Comments ||
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#17
you guys are wrong about MSM and brown guys who are our allies. When some Taliban guys died in Northern Alliance custody, way back in November 2001, the Left did their best to play it up. Never caught on, at least in the US. Was a bigger story for the UK left, the Guardian et al.
#18
we need to include knives as part of foriegn aid.... jihadis will understand only one thing and that is force - give what they want to give the rest of us...
Posted by: Dan ||
06/22/2004 18:03 Comments ||
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#19
maybe US troops should start doing this too. then maybe they will put a lil more thought into it before they do another american hostage or soldier this way
#20
you guys are wrong about MSM and brown guys who are our allies
MSM expoloits the fears of PC politicians to do anything that might alienate voters, but my point is, PC politicians alienate voters by double talk and no results. As for brown guy allies-you mean Muslim leaders?-anyways, they are not consistent allies, but they may start being more our consistent if they saw us producing results and being the strong horse in WOT. Muslim leaders will line up behind a winner and that's why they are trying to play both sides now, because the West is not showing itself to be a clear winner.
I do not advocate castrating jihadists or Abu humiliation stuff with Muslim POW's. That stuff is pointless. We must dishonor the dead terrorists. We must show that terrorism is NOT a rite of passage to joining Allah.
Jihadists use the fear of death against us because they believe dying for OBL's cause by taking innocent infidels with them is the way for them to realize happiness in the after life. Humiliating them while they are alive or merely killing them will not stop future terrorists in training.
No, we must take away the honor of a terrorist's death and the best way to do it is to introduce pork at the terrorist's murder site. Simple.
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 18:37 Comments ||
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#21
That's right LH: but it never caught on. I think people here saw that for what it was - a cheap chance to try to blame the Bush...and 9/11 was still a fresh memory. Before 9/11, this wouldn't have gotten too much attention. Most of the MSM big shots hold themselves to be citizens of the world first and Americans second - so what happens elsewhere by the hands of others should be equally as important to them, but it isn't because it doesn't carry their agenda forward. Just my $.02. (not adjusted for inflation)
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/22/2004 18:38 Comments ||
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Hat tip: http://www.nicedoggie.net/archives/004353.html#004353
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan, June 22 (Reuters) - Afghan soldiers beheaded four Taliban fighters after guerrillas cut off the heads of an Afghan interpreter for U.S.-led forces and an Afghan soldier, a government commander said on Tuesday. The interpreter and the soldier were beheaded after becoming separated from a patrol of Afghan and U.S.-led foreign troops in the Arghandab district of Zabul province on Monday night, Namatullah Tokhi, commander of the governmentâs 27th division in the province, told Reuters. He said government troops later captured and killed four Taliban guerrillas in the same way. "They cut of their heads with a knife, so when our forces arrested four Taliban, we cut off their heads too."
Dire Revenge, Afghan style.
Posted by: ed ||
06/22/2004 3:22:01 PM ||
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#1
You really have got to have a head for that work.
Posted by: Capt America ||
06/22/2004 16:14 Comments ||
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Bret Baier (sp?) reporting from the Pentagon sez that there has just been a strike in Fallujah. Sez air strike(s) on another Zarqawi safe house in south central Fallujah. Kimmet sez multiple intel confirmations on "actionable" intelligence.
I guess i must be the only Galitzianer (notoriously superstitious Polish Jew) here. ;)
Look, could everyone please stop mentioning Zarqs demise every time a bomb falls on Fallujah? Dont you know that just jinxes it?
Even if youre thinking it, you cant say it or write it. And if you do have to say, please add a "baruch hashem" or "inshallah" or "praise the lord" or whatever works for you.
I've always had a real fondness for snipers. Thanks for putting in a good word for them, and their ability to reach out a touch someone even a 1,000 yards out.
#19
Have the sniper shoot him in the groin so that he painfully lingers and has to contemplate whether to snuff himself or seek medical attention at a hospital.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/23/2004 1:47 Comments ||
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#5
Me, too, .com, but ito's ratrhywer hargd to tfype liken that . ; . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/22/2004 16:06 Comments ||
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#6
Well this didn't take long ...
U.S. Airstrike Kills Four in Iraqi Town of Falluja
Tue Jun 22, 2004 04:25 PM ET
FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - A U.S. airstrike in the Iraqi flash-point town of Falluja killed four people Tuesday night, witnesses and a hospital official said.
The witnesses said the airstrike hit a garage. Iraqi police and U.S. troops sealed off roads leading to the scene of the attack, the witnesses said.
"There was an airstrike that hit a car garage near my home," said witness Muhawmish Hammadi. "A warplane was in the area for 10 minutes and then it fired a rocket at the garage."
Ahmed Ghalib, a doctor at Falluja Hospital, said four people were killed and six wounded in the attack.
A Reuters photographer in the Falluja area said U.S. warplanes could be seen during the day.
A U.S. airstrike on a house in Falluja killed 22 people Saturday. The U.S. military said the building was a safe house for fighters loyal to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who they say is the top al Qaeda operative in Iraq.
Iraqis at the scene of that attack and local security officials said civilians were killed and the house was not linked to Zarqawi.
#7
It's always a missle... never a guided boom.
I wonder tho... maybe this time it was a missle, prehaps a Maverick of some flavor. Which implies a real good target.
#8
We really need some space based weapons. Imagine how much more entertaining it would be to have a giant blue/green beam reach down from the sky to vaporize the Jihadis in their hideouts. Or if lasers are too much trouble, microwave beam weapons. Watching Achmed Camelsniffer explode as he catches some rays might prove mighty demoralizing. Especially since most of these guys have no idea what a microwave is.
NATO Senior Civilian Representative in Afghanistan Hikmet Cetin said, ''(Osama) Bin Laden is in mountainous Waziristan region at Afghanistan's border with Pakistan. Even if he is captured, Al Qaida and Taleban won't come to an end.'' Cetin explained Al Qaida as follows: ''Al Qaida is now an ideology. An ideology without a state, but attacking values of the modern world. It has undertakers in Islam countries. They are developing terror projects.''
An excellent description.
Certainly accurate in the meaning of 'undertakers'.
Without Binny it's an ideology without a checkbook...
Waziristan, where Bin Laden is hiding, is 150 kilometers east of Kabul and on the Tora Bora mountains. Al Qaida is communicating through persons.
They're using runners because people blab whenever we bonk somebody based on intel from covering satphones.
Somebody should have told Nek Mohammad, or maybe he didn't listen.
Just the sort of thoughts of invincibility we need to encourage.
Using telephones, freeing pigeons, singing songs, and whistling are banned.
Worried about carrier pigeons? That's interesting.
Those who are doing all these are killed.
That's pretty much their only punishment.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/22/2004 1:59:52 PM ||
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#1
If he's still breathing, and I have my doubts, that would be a good bet.I agree.He was reported to have Kandahar with one dialysis machine.Also there is speculation of Binny having Marfan disease.At those altitudes,doubtful he survived.....Maybe that is the reason Zarqawi(sp) is making public statements in Iraq and looking at being head turban......
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 13:18 Comments ||
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#3
The butchers must be watching the BBC.
The media appeasement lobby is obviously inciting this with their line on the hostage murders: "get out and it will stop" "cycle of violence, stop killing jihadis and they will stop killing our people." It's a simple equation: More butchered victims, more pressure from the Fifth Column to call off the war.
Media lefties are worse vermin than the terrs themselves, because media-heads were raised in open societies and should know better.
They are beasts, criminals conciously inciting murder and genocide to advance their depraved careers.
#4
But it is working since our news media and their ilk like Al-jaweirdo are all in cahoots to get rid of Bush, support terrorism (sells papers, ads and TV time) and eliminate the joos! The editors at NYT and WaPo and other leftie dailys around the world are creaming in their jeans every time this happens. Believe me, go to any local or national newspaper office today and you will see smiles galore.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
06/22/2004 13:24 Comments ||
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#5
All this makes me want to do is flatten Fallujah and Ramadi. I mean flatten both towns. I don't think that anything else is going to get the message across. Maybe the admin is waiting for the handover, so that we are asked specifically to do this. I doubt it though. All I do know is that this (the WOT) is going to get worse. A whole lot worse in the months and years ahead.
Posted by: remote man ||
06/22/2004 13:31 Comments ||
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#6
maybe, but it's kindof like the French wines. Once you dispell a myth, it's tough to get it up and running again.
They've been operating under the Western myth that... no one culture is better or worse than another, only different. Religion of Peace and all that BS. We can all just get along if we sit down and talk it out.
Each head that comes off is a reality call for all westerners that there really is good and evil and that evil must be fought. Even the lefty-left is left holding the bag for their once foolish dreams that you could have a war and if no one showed up we could all sing Kumbaya.
Not anymore. One more blow to our innocence and they might just discover how lethal we can be, once we decide it's ok.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 13:31 Comments ||
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#7
B, while I'd like to agree with you I don't think that the killing of individuals in a country half way around the world is going to make the lefties or the press change their positions one iota. It will have to be a major attack on US soil. When I say major, I mean on that kills more than 100,000 people. We just won't be angry enough until that happens. Of course at that point, watch out. It will be a different world.
Posted by: remote man ||
06/22/2004 13:36 Comments ||
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#8
Take out Jazzy news - they're in cahoots with the terrorists. Enough is enough ...
#9
The White House reacted with outrage to the report. "Obviously that would be horrible news to hear," said Press Secretary Scott McClellan. There is "simply no justification for those kinds of atrocities."
I am embaressed when the White House uses this detached, sanitized pat reply to an obvious Dark Ages act of barbarism. I recall President Bush using the exact same wording as a response to the Berg beheading and/or when the 4 US contractors were burned, mutilated and hung from a bridge.
IMO, Scott McClellan should have said: "This are are barbaric acts. The cowards who committed this atrocity against an innocent, unarmed civilian bring shame to the religion of Islam and to peace loving Muslims around the world. These cowards should be identified to PM Allawi by good Muslims who do not want their religion tarnished by the murderous actions of these godless thugs.
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#10
God rest his soul. Has his body been found? Has Johnson's body been found?
Something else. If a butcher knife was used for Kim or Johnson (a la Berg), I don't want to see "beheading", but "sliced off with a butcher knife" instead. If no media here is going to show the photos, at least use proper descriptions.
Posted by: Michael ||
06/22/2004 13:41 Comments ||
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#11
remote man - I'm afraid you are right. But when they do, they'll find a less kindler-gentler America than the one they attacked the first time. Press aside and truly looney left aside, most Americans have undergone attitude adjustments. The pre 9-11 arguments about peace and love are looking as dated and worn as grandma's sofa.
In fact, the whole 60's generation mentality is starting to look as old as grandma's sofa too.
One look at history would tell them that when we reach our limit, they will be crushed.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 13:43 Comments ||
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#12
Jack is Back
Nobody has alleged that all media exhibit the same bias or push the same line. I was more specific than that.
As for the motivation behind the appeasement line, Thomas M. Frank did a chapter and verse exposition of this a few years ago, entitled The Conquest of Cool (and yes, career advancement is a very big part of it since not all lefty media sell ads.)
#13
You start a war on the basis of a lie w/ a people who NEVER did anything to you in order to serve your master Israel and steal their oil. BODYCOUNT:10,000 Iraqi civilians+,963 coalition lives,about a hundred contractors and 3 beheaded civilians. Keep up the good work America.
Posted by: Ali Abdel Hafiz ben americani al ignorami aziz el alb mahmoud mustafa ben shoo bee doo ||
06/22/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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#14
Rex, Scott McClellan is in way over his head. If Rove, et al, had any sense they would get Scott, or preferably his replacement, to say these things. I just think the admin is going into hiding until the handover. It is a strategy of weakness that only invites more attacks.
Posted by: remote man ||
06/22/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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#15
Ali Shoo Bee Doo: Maybe you were getting some of the oil for food money huh? Maybe you were selling videos of the shredder killings? Saddam killed way more than 10,000 Iraqis a year you sick POS and you know it. Go crawl back in your IndyMedia hole and rot.
Posted by: remote man ||
06/22/2004 13:54 Comments ||
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#16
According to Ali, Saddam=Iraqi people. Are the mass graves the result of suicide?
Thanks you again, Ali, for helping us prove that lefties are mentally retarded authoritarians.
#17
If there is a place where these two men can feel our sadness and horror for their suffering, our wish to remove the pain and fair, and our outrage at their monstrous killings, I hope they find it--so many of us are just sickened by what has happened.
Since we live on Earth, however, it's time to turn to outstanding earthly matters-eliminating the last vestiges of Homo Neandrathalis--the terrorist.
Does anyone not wonder why we would find access to the Korean man's body but not the (Anglo) American man's body? I have an idea--because one of them has been so horribly mutilated out of ethnic hatred that it would be impossible to recover/show it. Think of the bridge...
#18
I just don't see how these beheadings can help Kerry in anyway, shape or form. The hate Bush America isn't even big enough to float Air America. It may represent the views of the press, but not the American people.
I live in a liberal enclave, and I find my lefty friends taking up defense these days, rather than going on the offense.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 13:58 Comments ||
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#19
Ali, we're just getting warmed up. You ain't seen nothin' yet.
#22
Whatever. Facts remain you lied to the world America. You deceived the world to get what you wanted. Your own 911 commission concluded that there was NO LINK between Iraq & 911. There are NO WMDS . You lied. As a result people are dying, Ameican people are dying & you've made the world a more dangerous place and given evey Jihadi an excuse to take up arms. Congrats, keep up the good work!!
Posted by: Ali Abdel Hafiz ben americani al ignorami aziz el alb mahmoud mustafa ben shoo bee doo ||
06/22/2004 14:02 Comments ||
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#23
BH...that's right. You know all that venom from the left that iss directed at our religious right? I't won't be long before they feel it's ok to direct all that personal dissatisfaction at the homophobic, repressive, religious Islamists.
They are already looking in your direction - just waiting for a nod to spew.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 14:03 Comments ||
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#24
Good point re Allawi LH. I hope that he has the stones to get the job done. I think that the Iraqis understand the need for overt demonstrations of strength better than we do.
Posted by: remote man ||
06/22/2004 14:05 Comments ||
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#25
At this point I think AQ is just laughing at us. They take a head and see no reaction from us. The AQ are playing this perfect. They hear what the news says and they play it up. They get a since of the world reaction from the media and play it. World Outrage against the MOooOslims gets the headlines and the reactions.
But I must keep it all in perspective because Abu Grebe prison was far worse. Three human beings getting there head lopped off for the world to see with unrealistic demands to keep them alive, this does not compare to the prison atrocities and torture.
Yeah my world is truly balanced in it's thinking and perspective and it's so called stance on tolerance.
What a complete joke, does it not make you feel real good that these animals are just laughing their asses of at how inept our response is. Pathetic!
God rest his soul
#26
I completely disagree LHR. 4 months ago, if I had said to a group of my lefty friends that Islamists were "sick barbarians", they would have disowned me as their friend. Today, they would heartly agree.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 14:08 Comments ||
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#27
B, we are way beyond anything as obvious as the moonbats attempting to help Kerry. The radical agenda requires that the prevailing order be defeated, and that includes the Democratic Party whether everyone here likes it or not. The terrorists are a means to that end, nothing more. Certain mediatarian elitists adhere to this agenda because it conforms to principles of success that are fundamental to the nature of their business. The extreme, the radical, the nihilistic, the emotional; all signify distinction and therefore attention in the intensely time-constrained and competitive world of the media.
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 14:11 Comments ||
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#29
I'll not mince words Ali.
You're stupid.
The 9/11 commission has stated that Iraq and AQ have/had a relationship. There's no connecting link to 9/11 however.
And Sarin, Mustard gas and mortar rounds with blistering agents have been discovered in Iraq.
Islamonuts have beheaded a few civilians and filmed it for the world to see.
But, hey, we're the bad guys for putting panties on a prisoners head, right?
#30
Someone here broached what I feel is the true nature of the situation. That the Jihadis are actually the usefull idiots, and the MSM are the real enemy.
I wonder when we are going to wake up and realize this. It is the talking heads that need to lose theirs. That and the activist judges, etc. etc.
#31
To recap the bidding, in the last 48 hours the bad guys collectively have (1)ambushed four US Marines (2) taken eight members of the Royal Navy hostage (3) beheaded a South Korean and (4) killed about 50 Russians. This really calls for a united (small u) nations (small n) response. What's that term Aris is always using? "Solidarity"?
Posted by: Matt ||
06/22/2004 14:27 Comments ||
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#32
Hey anonymous . You like putting panties on other men GO RIGHT AHEAD. I bet u have some on your head right now, MORON. NO WMDs were found NADA. Quit giving excuses. You and george junior can put panties on each others heads 'till the cow comes home after the election is over.
Posted by: Ali Abdel Hafiz ben americani al ignorami aziz el alb mahmoud mustafa ben shoo bee doo ||
06/22/2004 14:32 Comments ||
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#36
Antiwar...how old are you? Do you think we don't know it's you, shoobeedoo? Shouldn't you be locating your Scooby Doo book so you can get caught up on your reading?
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 14:40 Comments ||
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#37
Ali-
This is a war. Started by Al-Q. There's a long way to go - years and years (see Israel and Palestine). If this is the response of the terrorists when we fight back, I shudder to think how much worse it would be if we didn't: thousands more Americans dead at home (but you'd like that right?). Sell your lie/Joo/oil-mantra bullshit somewhere else. We've got a war to win.
#41
These people made a bad mistake. There are few people in the world as relentless, ferocious, and downright mean as a pissed-off Korean. If Korea takes it personally things will get ugly for al Quaeda any place where Koreans can reach them.
#42
Anti(insert noun here) you didn't give rats @$$ about Iraqis when Saddam was butchering them on a daily basis so spare us your bigotry masquerading as compassion....that act it tired.
And apparenlty Ali fancies itself a troll. It's a lame attempt Ali.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/22/2004 14:46 Comments ||
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#43
Antisemite--
Sorry, your reading list is full of Islamonazi books and websites. A lefty illiterate like you would never come right out and say she hates Jews--instead, you merely praise suicide bombers and jihadis, endlessly. Of course you don't know Orwell--but Orwell knows you, honey, as we all do. You're a punchline.
Let me make it as plainly as I can for you. I *SUPPORT* Israel doing anything and everything it needs to do to rid itself of the mythical "Palestinians"--including the assasination of the Paleo-thug leaders, the killing of its militants, and the building of the wall to protect it from the cowardly thugs who kill families and children in public places.
I also support *ANY* action that eliminates Islamic militants and those that support them. The day is coming that Muslims will be forced to either publically and loudly *denounce* those who kill in its name, or face deadly consequences for their silence (and complicity).
#46
Dude give it a rest. You're hinging the whole war on that shell. Which the Bush admin. itself stated was just a relic that had gone undetected by everyone. It predated the weapons that the U.N were hired to look for also. THAT was the threat to world peace. Quit grasping at straws face the facts!!
#47
Are you enjoying A Tree Grows in Brooklyn? It was assigned to me in sixth grade. I really enjoyed it then....
kinda a kooky nut, aren't ya?
Posted by: B ||
06/22/2004 14:51 Comments ||
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#48
Ali- Your 'prophet' Muhammed had lotsa folks beheaded back in his day, there was no America to blame then, who did he blame then for his twisted evil acts..oh oops, the Jews! That's right.
Man, you Muslims always got to blame some 'other' to justify your acts of barbarism..ya know it's getting old, like 1400 years old!
We know the truth about Islam, you see?
So your propaganda to hide the truth of Islam will have little to no effect here.
Muhammed was a barbarian, a pedophile, a fascist, who used what little he knew of Jewish and Christian teachings to make his own 'religion' to justify his behaviour...and dolts like you bought it back then, the way you buy it now. Some were just bloodthirsty and liked the loot from the caravans and towns Muhammed told them to raid 'for Islam', of course alot liked all the Allah sanctioned rape of the female POWS and having sex slaves.
Which one are you?
#50
Kloo: Yer an idiot. It was an unmarked shell of a type Sammy NEVER declared. Noone has any idea how many of these things are out there. But of course, I'm wasting my time....here's a glass of Kool-Aid for your troubles.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/22/2004 14:58 Comments ||
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#51
Relic or not, there were/are undeclared Chemical Munitions that were discovered in Iraq.
How about you quit moving the goalposts and face the facts?
#52
TS(vice girl) has it right. Mo-ham-head was a pedophile, a rapist, an adulterer, a barbarian, a racist, and as the writings illustrate, a complete idiot.
#53
You make me sick TS(Vice girl) and you're an embarrassement. You're ignorant and you are a racist, xenophobic person. My name is Sammy Frobisher I am a protestant born and raised in grosse Point Michigan , I have since moved to montreal to be w/ my wife. You are embarrasing your fairly decent even though misguided mates on this website w/your words and You need to apologize to everyone for taking it this far!!
#54
KlooTroll -
Do you realize just how stupid you sound. Do your read anything other than lefty gooo? Can you please put your crayons away? The way you think is going to get us all killed.
#57
Scummy Frobisher -- just what did Vice Girl say that requires an apology?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/22/2004 15:02 Comments ||
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#58
IMO, Antiwar is a fake -- s/he pretends to be a nice, concerned liberal, but s/he gets real nasty when support for islamofascists (including undermining Western society and values) is confronted too directly. So as not to waste bandwidth, you can read the Same Story, Different Day -- right here in a previous thread.
#63
Klootroll- I make you sick?...well good then, wretch, maybe your delusion will come out in the wash.
Why am I a racist, cause I repeated what is written in the Koran and Hadith?
So, truth is now racism?
I missed that memo.
Oh, and I will never apologize for what is the truth, that's your job brother!
And you are doing a damn fine job of it too.
#65
"Mo-ham-head was a pedophile, a rapist, an
adulterer, a barbarian, a racist, and as the writings illustrate, a complete
idiot." - AMEN VICE GIRL!!!
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/22/2004 15:11 Comments ||
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#66
Well it's evident that you people are the worst aspects of america wrapped up into one . You're a deadly combination of racis, ignorant, hate filled, xenophobic, right-wing religious nuts, And no wonder the whole world hates America . May God send you all to hell .
#73
Anti--why do you use such a misleading name? You're not "anti-war" at all--you're simply for the other side.
And the Sharon remark again evidences your anti-semitism, as well as your paranoia. For the record, my respect for Sharon grows everytime he orders the assasination of the swine that kill innocent civillians in the name of the mythical "Palestinians".
Wow, you invoke God and then try to usurp His power and place by judging us worthy of hell -- and I just met you!
You say the Rantburgians are racist, but I know that this site boasts a large diversity from Native American to WASP, and everything between and beyond. You claim we are ignorant, but you donât even have a grasp of the islamofascist texts that are their version of Mein Kompf. You say we are hate-filled, simply because we rant against the mindless hatred of the islamofascists against everything Western, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, Zoroastrian, etc. (i.e., anything non-islamofascist). You claim we are xenophobic, but we span the globe in terms of who we are, where we hail from, and where we live. You claim we are right-wing religious nuts, but many of us are atheist or agnostic, and some are even Democrats.
No, Sammy Klooless, you are simply a disgusting, moronic idiot.
#76
Well it's evident that you people are the worst aspects of america wrapped up into one . You're a deadly combination of racis, ignorant, hate filled, xenophobic, right-wing religious nuts, And no wonder the whole world hates America . May God send you all to hell .
Now Kloo(less)Troll, for someone who has such a sophisticated, advance opinion of the world I'm surprised that you immediately result to such vulgar means of debate. I thought people with such a worldly view of events would be able to do better than that. Siggggggggghhhhhhhhhh
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/22/2004 15:32 Comments ||
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#77
Well said, cingold, but ya shoulda added a {snarl} at the end - for emphasis.
We need a few clueless leftys - you know - helps us hone our arguements.
I'm only bigoted against people, who if their policy desires were enacted, would get us killed.
e.g. : Antiwar, and KlooTrool
#79
Cingold, you said just about everything I was going to say, but with more tact.
Sammy, you're embarrassing yourself every time you come on here. First you started making up ridiculous claims, then you start insulting us and revealing yourself to be everything you think we are.
Antiwar, we're at war. We lose, because of people like you, and you'll realize too late what you failed to help protect. We win, you claim we acted against the innocent. They aren't. I do feel sorry for the Palestinians, but while Israel can be called to task for some things, the majority of the Palestinians' problems are their own and have been created by the hate-filled jihadis whose goal in life is to tear down someone else. They have no goal other than destruction. That may not be the view of all Palestinians, but they're not policing their own, but giving them free reign. What does that say?
Nony - good to see you again. Mind telling me what "MSM" means? I'm not familiar with the term.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/22/2004 15:37 Comments ||
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#80
Klootroll...go read some Quran and Hadith and find out some history on Islam and the atrocities commited because of it throughout it's history.
Here's a good place to start.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
Or just read the headlines here everyday, maybe then you will have some sympathy for those enslaved and gang raped in Africa, beheaded all over the world, not to mention the women (MUSLIM WOMEN) who end up executed for being raped. It's all sanctioned by Islamic ideology.
(Which by the way, in case you hadn't noticed, is what the terrorists and their sympathizers are fighting for.)
Where is your sympathy for these ravaged masses?
Can you not have any, because to have sympathy for them would mean you would have to say something against Islam? Is that it?
So youd rather just ignore them, huh?
That way you can keep your conscience clear I suppose, and all in the YOUR world will be aok, right?
#81
And as for the subject of the article itself, I'm merely left to shake my head. I speculated yesterday that if the jihadis hit enough people from enough different countries, they may drive us together in a true coalition of those willing to drive them out. Wishful thinking, perhaps, but as the death toll mounts (and with a sick feeling in my gut I suspect it will), it's going to hit a lot more than just America - and those countries who lose people are going to have to ask themselves whether they want to bow to this kind of terror, or stand up to it.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/22/2004 15:40 Comments ||
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#82
Hey Sammy you worthless piece of ignorant flesh, saying these things about Islam isn't being racist because Islam isn't a fucking race you moron! TS(vice girl - my hero for the day!) has it right on target as far as I can tell. I wish it were different, I really do. I wish that Islam was a peaceloving religion but from what I see from their actions (or inactions on the part of the 'moderate' muslims) there isn't much hope for it unless it undergoes a radical change.
#83
Funny how people who don't support the extermination of Jews and Americans get labeled by the Islamicists as racis[t],ignorant, hate filled, xenophobic, right-wing religious nuts.
#84
Hey Sammy, how come you ran to Canada to be with your wife? Why didn't she come and live with you in the carriage house in Grosse Point? Afraid the Dems were going to reinstate the draft or something?
And like other posted earlier, the WMD issue was and is real. I think you would be most surprised who helped spirit them away (see Security Council members that opposed our entry into Iraq).
Posted by: remote man ||
06/22/2004 16:05 Comments ||
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Antiwar, darling, you'll want to add an etiquette book to that reading list.
A lady's age is hers to share or not share as she chooses, so long as she doesn't lie about it, or make a fuss. At your age, simpering coyness simply does not suit.
Some things that a lady does not ever do: stick out her little finger while drinking tea, lie, gratuitously insult others.
Clearly, you have some work to do before you next return. I look forward to observing your progress toward your stated goal.
#91
racis, ignorant, hate filled, xenophobic, right-wing religious nuts
Did KlooTroll miss any LLL buzzwords? I count homophobic, greedy, chauvinistic, ... Can anyone add some more?
#92
ima tired of this! ima say release psycho girl and start letting her have sex in front of iraqis again!
ima always like see good flaming thread. :)
antiwar ima curious. ima read this book by david icke that was recommend to me but it is turn out alot of crap mired in some truths. are you believe in rothschild conspiracy?
You are an antisemite. You are too obsessed with the only Jewish country on this planet for it to be otherwise.
Try to understand this: minutes after the Israeli army stopped defending the country, all the Jews (whom you profess to like) would be exterminated. You know, like genocide. I imagine it has escaped your notice, because you really don't care despite your high-minded protestations, that all the countries surrounding Israel are judenrein. This includes the Palestinian territories, that other people you are so very fond of.
So basically what you've been saying, is that you are against the Jewish country of Israel, even though the result of Israel's dis-establishment would be the death of almost one third of the Jews now living. For perspective, the last time such a thing happened, it was at the hands of Adolph Hitler and his Nazis.
#94
Hey, Mucky, if you liked that, check out the one Icke has called Children of the Matrix, where he claims we're under the control of extra-dimensional beings who have the power to enter our world leaders at any time. Never bought the book myself - I'd rather get a good novel or history book than pay $20.00 for an expensive joke, but one of these days I just might.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/22/2004 16:49 Comments ||
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#96
ima seen that one but im figure one david icke book enuff. he realy lose me when he start talking like antiwar and is say jews arent realy jewish. other stuf in there purdy fun to read tho. ima learn bush and hillary are lizards but bill not but is control by them.
#100
Anybody besides me think it's funny that Antiwar and the new sidekicks Ali shoo-be-doo and Sammy come out when there is a murder? They never participate in any serious discussions because, as operatives, their agenda is to try and captitalize on the attention the Islamo violence has produced for the WOT bad guys. Also, Antiwar (ie Pro-jihad) feels emboldened, so is not trying to sound so "polite" and "Gentle."
Give it up IslamoFascist pig ANTIWAR-ALI SHOO-GENTLE Pakistani and club of cyber operatives.
#101
Early in this thread Rex complained about WH flack Scott McClellan's wishy-washy comments. He must not have gotten the memo from his boss. From an item on foxnews.com: "The free world cannot be intimidated by the brutal actions of these barbaric people," the President said.
Posted by: Tibor ||
06/22/2004 17:15 Comments ||
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#102
What a complete joke, does it not make you feel real good that these animals are just laughing their asses of at how inept our response is.
#105
"The free world cannot be intimidated by the brutal actions of these barbaric people," the President said.
Sorry, #101, but this does not do it for me. Nor did the President's words as follows do it for me: There is no justification for the brutal execution of Nicholas Berg -- no justification whatsoever.
I guess the whole idea of using the word "justification" in the same sentence with the act of beheading a civilian is a desonant image.
The polite albeit dispassionate words of the President and McClellan are in fact similar to CAIR's condemnation of the beheadings. Go figure.
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 18:55 Comments ||
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#106
CAIR condemned the beheading? That's gotta be a first.
Wait -- I bet they followed it with "but..." and muttered something about the injustice of removing Saddam from power, right?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/22/2004 18:59 Comments ||
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#107
no, "injustice of the illegal zionist occupation"...I've got a fiver on that one
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 19:11 Comments ||
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#108
Here's what CAIR said about the Berg beheading, #106: "We condemn this cold-blooded murder and repudiate all those who commit such acts of mindless violence in the name of religion. We call on people of all faiths and cultures to work together for peace and reconciliation, not war and destruction." http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=33237&page=NB
Here is where CAIR condemns the murder of Paul Johnson: "We condemn this act of senseless violence and repudiate all those who believe such murderous behavior benefits the faith of Islam or the Muslim people. We call for the swift apprehension and prosecution of the perpetrators." http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1083&page=NR
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 19:13 Comments ||
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#109
#79 The Doctor
"Mind telling me what "MSM" means? I'm not familiar with the term."
MSM = Main Stream Media! THE ENEMY!
Oh, I see Frankie is gibbering about trolls again. I just can't figure out why he lumps me in with the likes of Anti, Sammy and that other ponce git NMM.
#110
Here's the full text of President Bush's press release condemning the beheading of Berg. Compare it to the PC condemnation from CAIR as quoted in post #108.
Soothing words and careful disassociation/disconnection with the peace loving religion of Islam. That way, everyone is happy and singing Kumbaya, yes? http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/05/20040512-2.html THE PRESIDENT: I want to express my condolences to the family and friends of Nicholas Berg. Nicholas Berg was an innocent civilian who was in Iraq to help build a free Iraq. There is no justification for the brutal execution of Nicholas Berg -- no justification whatsoever. The actions of the terrorists who executed this man remind us of the nature of the few people who want to stop the advance of freedom in Iraq. Their intention is to shake our will. Their intention is to shake our confidence. Yet, by their actions, they remind us of how desperately parts of the world need free societies and peaceful societies. And we will complete our mission. We will complete our task. Thank you.
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 19:24 Comments ||
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#111
"Mohamhead was a pedophile, a rapist, an
adulterer, a barbarian, a racist, and as the writings illustrate, a complete idiot."
#112
rex---CAIR ought to be able to put these condolances down pat with a hotkey. Think of the labor time saved....oh, the money saved....the more for charities.... well, you know.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/22/2004 23:55 Comments ||
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#113
rex - I'd like to try something with you, if you don't mind - and I invite everyone still awake to join in. Why not?
rex - On this RB link I addressed your complaint in comment #8. Unsatisfactory as it may be, I'd love to hear your take.
Read from there on down. Time to do more than throw rocks from your comfy armchair - what would you do? How would you do it? Follow the link embedded in my last post on that thread and read my little analysis / plan.
Be realistic. You're Bush. You've got all the problems and resources he has. Tell me / us what would work in the real world. I've got an open mind about you - cut my little plan to shreds, rearrange it, flesh it out - it sure needs help!
Let's do more than throw rocks and imply others are fakes and wimps - all you offer is words, too, because that's all any of us can offer in this venue. My will is not shaken, but my anger has been long stirred. I would love to take Islamfascism out - and everything attached to it. I'm the one who called it a human pathogen here on RB long long ago - I'll repost for you if you like, it's one I saved. You don't hold a candle to me for virulence, so let's get past that crap and use the venue to see if we can figure out a clever, workable, realistic plan. Why not?
C'mon, folks, tear it apart and replace it with one that works.
#114
Funny, #113, we must be on the same karma wave length...just as you directed me to your #8 post on the discussion about our policy towards Iran, I posted on that very thread. I had read your #8 response earlier in the day and then the more I thought it, I thought ...darn it, .com, you are wrong.
I don't just use words. My point is that I am FURIOUS that we Americans are reduced to choosing between George Bush or John Kerry to conduct the WOT, at a time that the very future of this very great nation hangs in the balance. Call me cynical[or drunk] but this country deserves better than either of these two men. Kerry is an untrustworthy cad and George Bush is not very bright, albeit having good intentions, I'll give him that.
Okay, if I had all the resources that George Bush has at his disposal, here is what I would do or rather would not do...I would have invaded Afghanistan like George Bush did. That was good. However, I would NOT have invaded Iraq. Sorry but I do not believe that most Iraqi Muslims are capable of appreciating democracy. I do not believe that Saddam was as great a threat to our national security as the Saudi princes are/were.
After Afghanistan, if I were Bush, I would have directed all our resources to border control and to immigration reform...I would have cleaned up the threats from within before I would have tangled with the ME. I would have not put any hand cuffs on Israel as to how it cose to deal with Arafat and the Palestinians. Walls, assassinations...anything Sharon wanted to do would have my support, not a single bit of criticism would have come from my lips.
I would have made any foreign aid conditional on annual goals approved by me personally, not State dept. rubber stamped goals.
The biggest butt kicking I would have done-behind closed doors- would have been to Presidente Fox- no $ unless he got rid of the feudal oligarchy running Mexico. Second big butt kicking I would have done would have been to Chretien-nasty, nasty NAFTA trade fights with Canada unless he put a moratorium on his loosy-goosy immigration policies. The US provides Canada with 45% of its GDP and Mexico receives most of its operating budget from illegal aliens living in the USA who send back $ to Mexico. Both Canada and Mexico create bigger security headaches for America because of their respective sloppy immigration policies and corrupt government and society than anything Uncle Saddam might throw our way.
Then I'd have a heart to heart conversation with Kofi Annan about the expensive real estate the UN occupies in Manhattan and how terrible it would be if I responded to the public's desire to boot the UN losers out of the USA and also I'd draw his attention to some nasty rumors I heard about his son and bribes from Uncle Saddam and I'd tell Kofi that I would like to hear more pro-USA words coming out of his corrupt mouth or als, he'd better get some moving boxes together and a lawyer for his son...and speaking of the devil, I would have let the UN inspectors harrass Saddam indefinitely.
Sorry, .com but I could care less about the Iraqis Saddam murdered every year. As an American President my mandate is to ensure the safety and welfare of American citizens not fussing about the down trodden in other countries.
Posted by: rex ||
06/23/2004 1:00 Comments ||
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#115
Well you started within reality - then promptly wandered off into a fantasy. Sigh. What good is all that speculation? Where does it take us? How does it address where we are now and where to go from here? Methinks it was just to feel better. The soothing clackity-clack of the keyboard.
I'm sorry. I don't don't get it. I speak English. I have a fucking degree in English. I can actually be articulate and maintain relevance and focus - even in the face of a million distractions. But no one, including you, seems to take me at my word. Why is that?
Type whatever you like - it's still a free country. Sorry if I distracted you.
Heavy Sigh.
I'll continue planning for a Skeery win and arranging to move out. It was nice to get a few Italian suasage pizzas while I was here.
Thanx, rex. You didn't have to respond at all. I won't bother you again.
#116
Yo Dot, sorry I can't give you more, I'm in a reading mode and have been in an intense reason match with an extended family member. I hope he takes my invitiation to participate here. Your challenging ideas are Rantburgian ideals, way to go.
But anyway, in my tennis match with my other I was offered a "nuke them all" scenario. This after castigating Bush for Abu garbage injustices.
Yes, if need be, getting rid of mecca and merida must happen, fine! But thats another deal. And I'm ready to defend that (but not tonight) so back off!
Rex, the war is over there. Your ideas are not off the back but the war is over there, and thank God.
I'm not impressed at all with islam, nope nada nothing, zero. But I'm not ready to nuke that! They are crippled by islam, a stone, an albotros. How to bend those that are infected is the key to how not to NUKE THEM.
On one hand we are ready to help the civils in Iran and on the other we call for their extinction.
Today on Savage he played a taped interview of an SF cleric that was hostile to wahhabinuts. He knew! But with me, it is that whole fake thing that has my goat. Until we can confront that goat...
#117
Hey, Lucky - glad to hear you're recruiting and debating... but sorry to hear you're bled dry. Sigh.
Personally, I guess I'm about the same. We're thoroughly infiltrated, now. Trolljans and MoleTrolls. They post lots of pointless thoughtless unfunny unauthoritative uninteresting unoriginal mee too shit, usually just reworded tripe full of Kill the Islamofascists! Over And Over. No clue as to how to accomplish it in the real world - and damned uninterested in trying to.
But boy are they mad! They're mad as hell and they're not gonna take it anymore! Right. Of course they will. They are the true paper tigers. And secretly, in their heart of hearts is a boatload of BushHilter DUng. We have several - and, sadly, they've been welcomed into the herd.
Which means it must be about time to leave.
Hey, The Long Kiss Goodnight is coming on. Cool. "Da duh da duh duh, put my keys in my left pocket, da duh da duh duh, and the gun in my right..."
#118
Rex, the war is over there. Your ideas are not off the back but the war is over there, and thank God.
No comprendo...my ideas are not off the back?? say what??? the war is "over there" ...yes, for now...the belief that we use Iraq as a terrorist magnet is short sighted ie. the liberated Iraqis may not be too keen on having their country function as a terrorist playpen indefinitely for one thing and secondly, it's rather unfair to our GI's, most of whom are young kids who have just started shaving, setting them up as expendable decoys for a bottomless pit of jihadists to deflect attention from our our shores.
As for your disappointment, .com. what can I say in my defense? George Bush is no Ronald Reagan. Kerry is no George Bush. The WOT needs to start by defending our shores. Liberating Iraqis from the boot of cruel Uncle Saddam just means more potential Islamic jihadists have been liberated to do us harm in the future, in my cynical opinion. To be honest, if Uncle Saddam had not got too big for his britches by invading Kuwait, he would have been a useful deterrent against Al Queda taking hold in Iraq. Alas, Uncle Saddam needed to pay off his war against Iran...and the rest is history...
Posted by: rex ||
06/23/2004 2:51 Comments ||
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#119
Like I said before rex. I don't like it any better than you about having our guys over there. But saddam had to go down. And now the war is over there. Your ideas about fortress America, check that, border defense is fine but it's not going to do squat to confront the evil thing. Nope thats over there. Our young guys are well led and I hope they can get the job done. It's a bottomless pit only if we play it that way.
Dot, your prolly done with this thread, I know I am. But debate here is what I come to see, like the picture in the rantburg header, but I'm not to good at it. I hope you can appreciate rex and others who bring their 'A' game. I do.
#120
Where I live, I see a similar pattern. Local blacks in the community constantly complain about police harassment against the community and its youth. The police holds back. Yet, every time there is a street celebration, there are shootings from this community. Police respond. The community reacts to police 'discrimination'. Other community events occur, and there is no problem and no police response. When will this community respond to its own internal problems and accept that fact that they have troubled youth -- and we're not even talking a bad part of the world here -- it's machismo in this group that cause the problem.
Now look at the Islamic radicals 'fighting for their CAUSE' -- same shit. Now their community does nothing. When are the Arab nations going to stand up and state that they are against the actions of these radicals who give their faith and people a bad name? Never. Why? Because they're silent partners in this atrocity. They relish it -- the attacks against innocent people. American forces never go in with the INTENT of targeting innocent people - this is not a justification to kill innocent people - it's horrible. These soldiers, in most cases, are God-fearing and loving individuals with FAMILIES who have grown attached to Iraqi people who have never SMELLED freedom in their lives -- expect beheadings and torture. And the mistakes in the prison were simply mistakes against TERRORISTS -- not civilians. But undoubtedly, there were mistakes.
There will come a day that two things will happen. And it won't be America's charge. I await Muslim's terror wrath against peace-loving citizens of non-American juridictions. Soon, they will feel the pain and those nations will turn on them. And the groundswell will be great. Soon, ISLAM (pushed by radicals because the honest Islamic people won't do anything) will be converted to FASCISM -- and the world will treat all Arab nations as FASCIST -- a new NAZI Germany. And guess what -- a full scale invasion will occur with major SUPERPOWERS (from China, USSR, Western Europe and the USA) to invade every damn nation that supported the terror, uproot their powerbase, arrest every radical and turn those jurisdictions into police states until there is calm. This is called BABY SITTING. Sadly, some people cannot handle the fact that the rest of the world has advanced well beyond the 7th century vision of the world and are filled with ENVY and JEALOUSY that they have fallen behind due to corruption, failed political governance and a rule of law (a society with a rich, a poor, and beheading as enforcement won't go far -- people have a right to live their lives -- innocent Arabs in many nations don't have this changes -- yes, America, Russia and others manipulated these power bases during the Cold War -- a different game).
The second option is even more scary. The world is fast approaching a transhumanist era. The United States is well past the ordinary combat mantra of people, guns and butter. It is transforming itself into a 'system of systems' offensive/defensive citadel. Soon, these terrorists WILL BE fighting ROBOTS. And yes, the radical islamists are correct -- law-abiding, free-willed Americans are afraid of death for STUPID CAUSES. They don't die and strap bombs to themselves in the name of God (Who would not support such cowardly acts) and 72 virgins. This is pure fanatical, uneducated bunk. But robots don't fear death. Soon, you will have UCAVs, biometric scanning robots uploaded with 'target information' and one thing that will change things forever -- persistence. Imagine fighting death machines whose sole aim will be to relentlessly pursue its target until the mission is accomplished. Forget the $25 million bounty. Man v. machine.
It is clear that fanaticism led to the greatest tragedy in WW2. It is now rearing its ugly head in Islam. How do the Islamic people feel about being associated with fascism and Nazi Germany? Your turn is next - the world will TURN against you.
And when this happen, the rest of the world will, with open arms, take the peace loving muslims and beautiful children (they are so beautiful, I've cried when i've seen them affected by endless conflict) into their lands to understand why FREEDOM and FREE WILL is so powerful and how the opportunity to live your life the way you choose is the reason why the Western world and civilization has prevailed and excelled in so many areas.
No one expects you to buy McDonalds or Coke. You don't have to. But we expect you to take advantage, be your own person, live your life, raise your family, study your religion, with other peace loving cultures.
Radical Islam is a dying cause. Soon, these terrorists will face their end.
Posted by: Free Will ||
07/07/2004 18:11 Comments ||
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#121
The USA etc should get out of Iraq.They should never have invaded in the first place. How come some Americans are beheaded (yes very sad condolences to families etc) and people are (rightfully )outraged and THEN when thousands of Iraqi civillians are killed its collateral damage????!!!
#122
Bowelmotionnutcase Yes Israel is a state that terrorises and persecutes the Palestinians so yes I am against it. I am not for the LAST BLOODY TIME antisemitic,I have nothing against Jews.
#123
B interested in what I'm reading. Well here you go
1.Freedom's Banner by Teresa Crane
2.A Heart So Wild by Joanna Lindsay
3.The Basket of Flowers by (it doesnt say)
4.The Vicar of Wakefield by Oliver Goldsmith
5.Mary Barton by Elizabeth Gaskell
6. A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith.
A lady never tells her exact age suffice to say I am between 30 and 35.
MOSUL, Iraq (Reuters) - Suspected assassins killed a university lecturer and her husband in the latest attacks on prominent Iraqis in the northern city of Mosul, police said on Tuesday. Relatives said Layla Abdullah Saad, the dean of the college of law at Mosul University, had received threats but had refused to hire security guards to protect her house where she was shot and stabbed to death on her doorstep. Residents said the murders -- which followed the killing of a lecturer from the same university in January -- appeared to fit a pattern of attacks designed to intimidate voices of moderate opinion in Iraqâs third-largest city, scene of repeated car bombings and drive-by shootings.
A pool of blood stained a small flight of steps leading to one of the front entrances to the two-storey house, marking the spot where Saad was killed, police said. "She received a couple of threats. Some people advised her to hire guards to protect that house, but she wouldnât listen," said one of Saadâs relatives, who declined to be named. The body of her husband, Moneer al-Khero, lay in a bedroom in the house in the affluent Aldanadan neighborhood in southern Mosul. Police said he had been shot three times during the attack, which bore the hallmarks of a professional killing.
Initial investigation showed the killers had left cash in the house untouched, while avoiding leaving obvious clues as to their possible identity. "It is a big conspiracy, to kill all the qualified and highly educated people, in order to horrify others so they will not lead government institutions," said Jamal Ahmed, 30, a driver employed by the university. Killing off the intelligentsia worked so well in China.
He was among a small crowd of colleagues and neighbors gathered outside the house, waiting for police to bring out the bodies for burial, while patrol cars sealed off the street. Police offered no immediate explanation of the motive. Insurgents fighting U.S. forces have conducted numerous assassinations, including of academics, in their campaign to destabilize Iraq and undermine support for an interim government due to take over sovereignty on June 30. The dean of the political science department at Mosul University, Abdul Jabbar Mustafa, was killed in January. I detect a strong Iranian odour in this.
Posted by: Zenster ||
06/22/2004 11:58:45 AM ||
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I detect a strong Iranian odour in this.
You've got a good nose, Zenster. The whole region stinks rotten to me, and I can't tell where one stench stops and the next begins.
Militants threatening to behead a South Korean hostage in Iraq unless Seoul pulls troops out of the country have agreed to give more time for talks on his fate, an Iraqi mediator has told Reuters. Jamaat al-Tawhid and Jihad, a group led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who has been accused by Washington of links to al Qaeda, initially set a Monday night deadline when Kim Sun-il was shown pleading for his life in a video tape on Al Jazeera. But Mohammed al-Obeidi, an Iraqi working for South Korean security firm NKTS in Baghdad, said Iraqi clerics who were in talks with the captors of the 33-year-old had told him the deadline for talks had been extended. Seoul has rejected the demand to pull troops out and scrap plans to send more. "The kidnappers have said they are willing to negotiate as long as the Korean government stops making provocative remarks and softens its tone on troop deployment," Obeidi said. "We have been asking for cooperation and received information through various channels," Seoulâs chief foreign ministry spokesman said. A Seoul commerce ministry spokeswoman said all South Koreans working for firms in Iraq were likely to leave the country by early next month.
In another test for U.S.-led authorities, Iran seized three British naval boats and arrested eight British crew, saying they had entered its waters near the Iraqi border. Britain said it had "lost contact" with military personnel in the narrow Shatt al-Arab waterway between Iran and Iraq before later announcing they were being held by Iran. A Defence Ministry spokesman in London said the crew were helping to train Iraqi police. A British diplomat in Tehran said the British government was in close contact with Iranian authorities in the Iranian capital and in London. Iranian state television said Tehran would prosecute the British sailors, a move likely to fan a minor border incident into a diplomatic crisis. The British government immediately demanded an explanation from Tehran of the report.
In the northern city of Mosul, a university dean and her husband were found murdered on Tuesday in the latest in a series of killings of high-profile figures in Iraq. Sabotage last week halted all oil exports, but officials said they resumed on Monday after repairs to one of two pipelines blown up in southern Iraq. The sabotage had choked about 1.6 million barrels of daily exports from Gulf terminals.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 9:22:59 AM ||
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9:46AM - Al-Jiz sez they beheaded him...fuckers
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 12:45 Comments ||
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#2
it is time for the west to go medival on these asshats - scew the consquences! and screw the bleeding heart liberals who would have us succumb and make us believe it is all our fault and can't we just get along ...
Posted by: Dan ||
06/22/2004 12:48 Comments ||
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The main Palestinian militant factions have united to oppose any security role Egypt might take in Gaza if Israel quits the territory, casting doubt over Egyptian efforts to mediate a smooth pullout. A statement by the 10 factions late on Monday put them at odds with the Palestinian Authority, which is due to hold potentially decisive talks with a top envoy from Cairo on Wednesday to discuss a possible Egyptian presence. "We deplore and are astonished at talk of a security role by Arab parties in Gaza and the West Bank," the militant groups said after a meeting of exiled leaders in Syria. They said such a role would make it look "as if the Palestinian people were the problem, not the occupation."
"Hey, looky here! A clue!"
Egypt has offered to help train Palestinian security forces to fill a vacuum in Gaza once Israel removes Jewish settlements and troops from occupied land. The possibility that Jordan could send in security experts has also been raised. Palestinian officials say Egypt will only send up to 200 security advisers if it has agreement from the militants and if a cease-fire is agreed with Israel. Among factions behind Monday's statement were Hamas, Islamic Jihad and a wing of Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement -- although the Palestinian president has welcomed Egyptian involvement and Fatah in Gaza said it had nothing to do with the document.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/22/2004 9:55:28 AM ||
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"Hey, deez guys are gonna crowd in on our racket boys!"
They said such a role would make it look "as if the Palestinian people were the problem, not the occupation."
While reality inversion as a way of life is rather common in children, for grown adults it is merely pathetic.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 10:56 Comments ||
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#4
Law? Order? We'll have none of that! Now, BEGONE!
Posted by: Dirty Old Man ||
06/22/2004 11:41 Comments ||
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#5
*Shakes head.*
I'm speechless. The mind-boggling stupidity of these people has fried my brain.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/22/2004 15:46 Comments ||
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#6
egyptians getting involved, Hamas, IJ and Arafat lash out at Egyptians, Nabil Shaath distances himself from Arafat.
Yup,its all going according to plan/
Note, what most outrages Arafat is that the Egyptians will play a role in making sure the Pal security sources are streamlined, which makes it harder for Arafat to keep control over them, rather than the Pal PM.
Note also that the terror groups are speaking from Syria and Syrian controlled Lebanon.
So for the home team, its Arafat, Hamas, IJ, AAMB, and Syria (and behind them, Iran)
For the visitors, its Egypt, Jordan, Dahlan, possibly Rajoub, and the more sane members of the PA cabinet and legislature. Qureia wont come out for the visitors till its clear theyre winning.
WELLINGTON - A New Zealand special services soldier wounded in Afghanistan who was flown to a hospital in Germany is expected to make a full recovery, the New Zealand Herald reported Monday. The defence department said the soldier was being treated at a hospital on the Ramstein Airforce Base in Germany for a gunshot wound he suffered during an attack on Friday.
That would be Landstuhl Regional Medical Center.
The soldier, who was not named for security reasons, will return to New Zealand when he is well enough to travel. Another soldier wounded in the attack has already returned to his unit. Major General Martyn Dunne, joint forces commander, said the special forces unit in Afghanistan had been operating on its own "a long, long way from the normal conventional forces".
Can you say "SAS"? I knew you could.
New Zealand did not have any special arrangements with the German Government for the soldier to be taken there but there had been no question of lack of German co-operation. Defence Minister Mark Burton said the soldier had been evacuated from Afghanistan under support arrangements New Zealand had with the United States.
Get well soon, Soldier. And thanks.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/22/2004 9:45:23 AM ||
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I worked (briefly) with the Kiwi SAS when they were doing close protection in Kabul. The are some great guys. To a man professional, down to earth, and actually quite funny and friendly. They have been operating way off the beaten path in Afghanistan and kicking some Tali-a#& now and again. They said that the locals could not figure out who (or what !) they were as some of them are Moari (spelling ?)All the better I say. Get well soon, Trooper.
Posted by: The Dude ||
06/22/2004 15:43 Comments ||
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Suspected Chechen rebels rampaged through a southern Russian region, mounting a brazen onslaught that killed 48 people and raised new doubts about Moscowâs ability to stamp out separatist violence. The fighters seized Ingushetiaâs interior ministry building for several hours early on Tuesday and attacked other top security points. "They must be found and destroyed. Those whom it is possible to take alive must be handed over to the courts," President Vladimir Putin said angrily in comments at a Kremlin meeting with top security chiefs, shown on national television.
I don't think I'd want Vlad to take me alive.
A Russian justice official said the rebels were trying to escape from Ingushetia into the neighbouring region of Chechnya or the independent state of Georgia after the attack. It was the biggest armed operation by rebels in the southern Russian province since war between separatists and Moscow erupted in Chechnya a decade ago. The coordinated strikes, concentrated in Ingushetiaâs capital Nazran, led to fierce overnight battles as security forces fought to dislodge the rebels from the ministry building. The rebels, who also raided police arms depots and seized weapons, eventually pulled out leaving behind bodies on the streets and the burned-out shells of a police headquarters and a building housing border guards. Tass quoted police as saying a small army of up to 200 guerrillas staged the operation, that began with rebels tricking their way into checkpoints on a main highway. Using false documents that identified them as members of anti-crime and special service squads, they commandeered the checkpoints and then gunned down police who turned out to answer the alarm, police said, quoted by Tass.
That's pretty bold of them. Either they are confident of their strength, or this is a desperate attempt to regain the initative.
Forty-eight people -- including 25 civilians -- were killed, Yakhya Khadziyev, a spokesman for the regional interior ministry, was quoted as saying by Tass. He said the dead included the acting regional interior minister Abukar Kostoyev, who had been in the building when it was captured. Another 60 people were injured. Two rebel fighters had been killed. A Kremlin official in the region later said however that security and police officials alone accounted for 47 dead, raising the possibility of a higher overall death toll.
Sounds like they tried for their own Tet Offensive.
Footage broadcast by ORT Channel One television showed bodies of combatants and civilians lying in the streets, many of them charred and mutilated from the intense fighting. Witnesses said they had seen the bodies of many police officers in the ministry building which the rebels held for several hours before pulling out in the early hours. A police officer who gave his name only as Timur said: "In our section alone, 30 people were killed and wounded." Chechnyaâs interior minister, Alu Alkhanov, who has won the Kremlinâs blessing to run for the regionâs presidency, said he had evidence that rebel warlord Shamil Basayev masterminded the attack. Basayev, Russiaâs most wanted man, has been behind many sensational rebel attacks over the past 10 years. Regional authorities declared three days of mourning. A local correspondent said people were already preparing the burials of their dead by sunset, according to Muslim tradition. The rebels launched their offensive at around 10.40 p.m. (7:40 p.m. British time) on Monday night, and also staged attacks on other points in the region, including Karabulak and Sleptsovsk. Within an hour and a half they had seized the interior ministry building in Nazran. They then raided ministry depots, seizing weapons and destroying those they could not take with them. Residents cowered in cellars as fierce fighting raged around them for several hours until the rebels left the interior ministry and pulled out in the early hours.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 9:38:37 AM ||
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Chechen separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov may have been involved in the terrorist attacks against sites where law enforcers are deployed in Ingushetia, Chechen Interior Minister, General Alu Alkhanov, told Interfax on Tuesday. Alkhanov said that "Maskhadov may be directly involved" in the terrorist attacks since he "declared several days ago that he plans to attack objects of local security agencies and authority structures." Alkhanov said that "the analysis of the information we are receiving" indicates that Maskhadov and Shamil Basayev are involved in the attacks.
Head of the State Dumaâs Committee on Foreign Affairs and head of the Russian PACE delegation Konstantin Kosachev told Interfax by phone that he shares Alkhanovâs position. He also said that the Russian PACE delegation has prepared a declaration regarding the attack in Ingushetia. "We want to attract the European parliamentariansâ attention to the situation in the North Caucasus, which once again confirms that all of the separatistsâ actions are definitely of a criminal and terrorist character," Kosachev said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 9:35:41 AM ||
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Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein is being questioned about claims he has billions of US dollars deposited in Japanese and German bank accounts, the Arab newspaper Al-Hyat reported Monday, citing anonymous "high-ranking" officials.
What, no Swiss account?
Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi estimated the funds to be worth USD 40 billion, the report said. Al-Hyat said it had a document in which the Iraqi interim government called on the US government to discuss how the funds could be accessed.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/22/2004 9:34:07 AM ||
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#1
Sounds like Saddam is getting a little squirrely over his approaching handover to the Iraqi government.
"Wait guys! Did I tell you about all the loot I stashed overseas? It'll take me another couple of weeks to remember all the account numbers ..."
#3
If you check the oil-patch maps, you will find that these sources are all in small pockets, that is: easy to seize and control. Which is exactly what I advocate, with the possible exception of the fields in Kurdish majority areas. Given a napalm protected corridor, the koranimals couldn't get close to the pipelines. It is Bush-Powell indulgence that is giving Islamofascist pigs license to blow up pipelines. Every day that Fallujah and Najaf remain on the map of the globe is another day of needless American insecurity.
Someone tell me: why do bozos like Bush-Powell respect Wahabi/Khomeni sovereignty, when those animals invoke Shariah to obstruct counter-terror? Those oil-fields were discovered and developed by Anglo-American interests, in either unpopulated or around pockets of Islamosavages. Those filthy pigs have no legal sovereignty or territorial claims over our oil. The Middle East: its your if you want it. Screw Bushie "values." They make me puke.
From The New Yorker, an article by Seymour Hersh. This is the entire first section, uncut. I highly recommend reading the entire article.
In July, 2003, two months after President Bush declared victory in Iraq, the war, far from winding down, reached a critical point. Israel, which had been among the warâs most enthusiastic supporters, began warning the Administration that the American-led occupation would face a heightened insurgency â a campaign of bombings and assassinations â later that summer. Israeli intelligence assets in Iraq were reporting that the insurgents had the support of Iranian intelligence operatives and other foreign fighters, who were crossing the unprotected border between Iran and Iraq at will. The Israelis urged the United States to seal the nine-hundred-mile-long border, at whatever cost.
The border stayed open, however. âThe Administration wasnât ignoring the Israeli intelligence about Iran,â Patrick Clawson, who is the deputy director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and has close ties to the White House, explained. âThereâs no question that we took no steps last summer to close the border, but our attitude was that it was more useful for Iraqis to have contacts with ordinary Iranians coming across the border, and thousands were coming across every dayâfor instance, to make pilgrimages.â He added, âThe questions we confronted were âIs the trade-off worth it? Do we want to isolate the Iraqis?â Our answer was that as long as the Iranians were not picking up guns and shooting at us, it was worth the price.â
Clawson said, âThe Israelis disagreed quite vigorously with us last summer. Their concern was very straightforward â that the Iranians would create social and charity organizations in Iraq and use them to recruit people who would engage in armed attacks against Americans.â
The warnings of increased violence proved accurate. By early August, the insurgency against the occupation had exploded, with bombings in Baghdad, at the Jordanian Embassy and the United Nations headquarters, that killed forty-two people. A former Israeli intelligence officer said that Israelâs leadership had concluded by then that the United States was unwilling to confront Iran; in terms of salvaging the situation in Iraq, he said, âit doesnât add up. Itâs over. Not militarily â the United States cannot be defeated militarily in Iraq â but politically.â
Flynt Leverett, a former C.I.A. analyst who until last year served on the National Security Council and is now a fellow at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy, told me that late last summer âthe Administration had a chance to turn it around after it was clear that âMission Accomplishedââ â a reference to Bushâs May speech â âwas premature. The Bush people could have gone to their allies and got more boots on the ground. But the neocons were dug inââWeâre doing this on our own.ââ
Leverett went on, âThe President was only belatedly coming to the understanding that he had to either make a strategic change or, if he was going to insist on unilateral control, get tougher and find the actual insurgency.â The Administration then decided, Leverett said, to âdeploy the Guantánamo model in Iraqâ â to put aside its rules of interrogation. That decision failed to stop the insurgency and eventually led to the scandal at the Abu Ghraib prison.
In early November, the President received a grim assessment from the C.I.A.âs station chief in Baghdad, who filed a special field appraisal, known internally as an Aardwolf, warning that the security situation in Iraq was nearing collapse. The document, as described by Knight-Ridder, said that ânone of the postwar Iraqi political institutions and leaders have shown an ability to govern the countryâ or to hold elections and draft a constitution.
A few days later, the Administration, rattled by the violence and the new intelligence, finally attempted to change its go-it-alone policy, and set June 30th as the date for the handover of sovereignty to an interim government, which would allow it to bring the United Nations into the process. âNovember was one year before the Presidential election,â a U.N. consultant who worked on Iraqi issues told me. âThey panicked and decided to share the blame with the U.N. and the Iraqis.â
A former Administration official who had supported the war completed a discouraging tour of Iraq late last fall. He visited Tel Aviv afterward and found that the Israelis he met with were equally discouraged. As they saw it, their warnings and advice had been ignored, and the American war against the insurgency was continuing to founder. âI spent hours talking to the senior members of the Israeli political and intelligence community,â the former official recalled. âTheir concern was âYouâre not going to get it right in Iraq, and shouldnât we be planning for the worst-case scenario and how to deal with it?ââ
Ehud Barak, the former Israeli Prime Minister, who supported the Bush Administrationâs invasion of Iraq, took it upon himself at this point to privately warn Vice-President Dick Cheney that America had lost in Iraq; according to an American close to Barak, he said that Israel âhad learned that thereâs no way to win an occupation.â The only issue, Barak told Cheney, âwas choosing the size of your humiliation.â Cheney did not respond to Barakâs assessment. (Cheneyâs office declined to comment.)
In a series of interviews in Europe, the Middle East, and the United States, officials told me that by the end of last year Israel had concluded that the Bush Administration would not be able to bring stability or democracy to Iraq, and that Israel needed other options. Prime Minister Ariel Sharonâs government decided, I was told, to minimize the damage that the war was causing to Israelâs strategic position by expanding its long-standing relationship with Iraqâs Kurds and establishing a significant presence on the ground in the semi-autonomous region of Kurdistan. Several officials depicted Sharonâs decision, which involves a heavy financial commitment, as a potentially reckless move that could create even more chaos and violence as the insurgency in Iraq continues to grow.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/22/2004 8:28:54 AM ||
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#1
It's so fun watching Seymour flirt with the truth but be unable to get there because all things must lead to "Bush is stupid".
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/22/2004 9:27 Comments ||
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#6
Oh, Christ, Mike. You actually believe Hersh? The guy never found a lie he wouldn't make his own.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/22/2004 9:58 Comments ||
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#7
What a load of horsesh*t (speaking particularly of the last few paras). Is this trend for "former officials" to cheap-shot policy from a lofty and solomonic height new, or did I just not notice it virtually filling such articles in eras past?
Barak sounds like an idiot here -- of course, given his record, there's some basis for this, but I think he's smarter than this. We've already "lost"? You can't "win" an occupation -- i.e. you can't achieve your objectives if it involves occupation, even if temporary? Huh? This is the sort of silliness one usually sees in, uh, clueless American journalists and think-tank hacks.
But the howler is the "damage" to "Israel's strategic position". What? Eliminating the richest, most able, most implacably hostile Arab regime constitutes "damage" to "Israel's strategic position"? I guess Hersh is just much smarter than I, since he can make any sense of such an idea. Or, maybe ....
#8
Is this trend for "former officials" to cheap-shot policy from a lofty and solomonic height new, or did I just not notice it virtually filling such articles in eras past?
I don't recall it from high officials in the Clinton administration. After all who'd want to be found dead in Fort Marcy Park?
#9
The border stayed open, however. âThe Administration wasnât ignoring the Israeli intelligence about Iran,â Patrick Clawson, who is the deputy director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and has close ties to the White House, explained. âThereâs no question that we took no steps last summer to close the border, but our attitude was that it was more useful for Iraqis to have contacts with ordinary Iranians coming across the border, and thousands were coming across every dayâfor instance, to make pilgrimages.â He added, âThe questions we confronted were âIs the trade-off worth it? Do we want to isolate the Iraqis?â Our answer was that as long as the Iranians were not picking up guns and shooting at us, it was worth the price.â
Assuming that this is true, this is so stupid. First off, how do they know that there aren't going to be Iranian agents mixed in with those making pilgrimages? This is another irritating example of political correctness at its worst. We're trying to stabilize and rebuild a country here, folks. It's bad enough that Iraq already has some internal problems that need fixing, and now an EXTERNAL problem in the form of unscreened Iranians crossing an unpoliced border is introduced? This is, quite frankly, just nuts.
Secondly, what makes these guys think that it's only the wielding of a weapon by Iranians that would do damage? Ever heard of incitement? How about fomenting unrest? Iran is a known supporter of terrorism, so how could chumps like Clawson not assume that Iran would try to work its "magic" in Iraq when presented with the opportunity? The fact that the Israelis gave us sound advice only to see it dumped in the seeming interest of being PC is simply mind-boggling.
#10
Hersch is an amalgam of Jason Blair and Michael Moore with a dash of Jesse Jackson for panache and relevance. He's nearing the ranks of the self-parodies like Klugman, Fiske, and Dowd.
#13
Am I missing something? I'm glad that the Israelis are allying themselves with the Kurds. What's wrong with both parties covering their bets? Both Israelis and Kurds have been the focus of Muslim hatred and both are smart enough not to put all their faith in America succeeding in the noble [ but misguided IMO]hope of using democracy to vanquish Islamic terrorism in the ME.
The fact that Israel and the Kurds not mindlessly in lockstep with the WH might upset the idealistic sensibilities of some of you, who are safely esconced in a stuffed armchair in the USA, but Israel and the Iraqi Kurds do not enjoy the luxury of dreamers who live 6000 miles from the fomenting Sunni/Shiite inferno in Iraq. Get off your idealistic high horses and put yourselves in the shoes of Israelis and Kurds before automatically dismissing the content of this article.
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 23:52 Comments ||
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EFL
At least 46 people have been killed and dozens wounded in coordinated attacks on government buildings in three separate towns in the Russian republic of Ingushetia, which borders Chechnya. Officials say Russian Interior Ministry troops beat back the rebels in heavy fighting that raged early Tuesday.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
06/22/2004 7:55:21 AM ||
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#1
I can see now that some beet me to the post. I quit.
Insurgents gunned down four U.S. Marines west of Baghdad on Monday, and South Korea said it would go ahead with plans to send thousands more troops to Iraq despite a threat by Iraqi kidnappers to kill a South Korean seen pleading for his life on a videotape. A videotape delivered to Associated Press Television News showed four Marines in uniform lying dead in what appeared to be a walled compound in Ramadi, an insurgent stronghold 60 miles west of Baghdad. One of the Americans was slumped in the corner of a wall. The bodies had no flak vests - mandatory for U.S. troops in contested areas - and at least one was missing a boot. One fieldpack was left open next to a body as if the attackers had looted the dead before fleeing.
Rat bastards.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, coalition deputy operations chief, confirmed the killings but gave few details. He said a U.S. quick reaction force found the bodies after the troops failed to report to their headquarters as required. American officials had been concerned about the deteriorating security situation in Ramadi, located along a belt of Sunni militancy running westward from Baghdad along the Euphrates River. Last week, seven Iraqi Civil Defense Corps members were arrested for planting a roadside bomb that killed a policeman and wounded seven civilians in Ramadi. Most of the kidnappings of foreigners over the past two months are believed to have occurred along that belt.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/22/2004 1:02:11 AM ||
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a quote from same - "Yesterday, a Washington Post article was headlined: "Is al-Qa'ida winning in Saudi Arabia?" It was just such questions about America's enemies that led President Johnson to his "Cronkite moment" in 1968 - his realisation that he could no longer count on the support of the country's favourite television news anchor, Walter Cronkite, and that he had therefore lost the sympathy of the electorate as a whole."
Posted by: Super hose ||
06/22/2004 1:43 Comments ||
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#2
What are the odds that they were bushwhacked by ICDC or Iraqi police? I would say pretty high.
#6
It seems the ICDC is locally recruited. It might be worth it to suspend recruitment of ICDC in Anbar Province, and re-vett all existing ICDC. Focus recruitment and training on areas where more reliable ICDC come from (although that will mean mainly Shia and Kurds)
#7
LH's idea strikes me as an excellent safe-guard to reduce local clan / tribal influence on ICDC - whose goals, interests, and methods will have precisely nothing in common with the CPA, to put it politely - especially in SunniLand.
The only relationship between ICDC forces and the Sunni Triangle population should be one of respect based on fear. Remove the fear and the Sunnis revert to their colorful traditions of thuggery and organized mayhem.
#8
I heard one report indicating that the bodies were partially decomposed, indicating that they had died days ago.
About the ICDC being recruited locally, I have a friend from NYC who's in the DEA. When asked where he wanted to be posted, he was told he could choose anywhere but NYC -- there's a risk he might come across a friend or family member, so it's better that he be stationed where he has no ties. It would make some sense for the Iraqi military, but not for the police force.
Here's an idea, why don't we put a microchip in the flak vests or in the kevlar that is only activated when the soldier/marine goes missing. We could use it to track down the soldier/marine or the missing equipment if something bad befalls the owner. (I know that this system may be vulnerable to misuse by our enemies (who may try to hack in to the system to track our troop movements), but I would hope that the US government could take steps to prevent that.)
Posted by: Tibor ||
06/22/2004 12:04 Comments ||
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#9
Tibor - You're on-target, bro: LoJack the troops, already on the drawing board -- expected to be part of the New Electronic Soldier currently in development and proof of concept testing...
#14
I want some Iraqi ass for this!! If "W" continues to placate the scum in Iraq, I will change my vote to Kerry in November. I'd rather see us leave in total than be lied to about this terror offensive we're suppose to be "fighting"!
#16
timeless, PD....just friggin timeless...
BTW - small posting in PM tomorrow - I'm going to the Dead concert at Coors Amphitheater here in very So Cal. I love the Grateful Dead remnants regardless of Miss "no clue"....I'll look for her heh heh...(already took my paternal looking-down from Alaska Paul lol)
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/22/2004 22:27 Comments ||
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#17
*gulp* You're a DeadHead? Lol! Musta got you in a time of weakness, heh... Have Fun for all of us!
The pre-dawn rocket attack in the town of Sui in Balochistan on June 20 is another reminder, if one were still needed, that all is not hunky-dory with Pakistanâs geographically largest resource-rich province. The attack, which has destroyed Suiâs airport and for which a Baloch nationalist group, Balochistan Liberation Army, has taken responsibility, has come in retaliation to reports that the federal government wants to have military cantonments in the three Balochistan towns of Sui, Kuhlu and Gwadar. The record shows that over 150 rockets have been fired into this area in the last two months. Why should the Baloch nationalists be opposed to cantonments in the province? There are two broad cross currents in Balochistan. One relates to a general sense, not without reason, that the province has been given a bad deal by the federal government since independence; the second relates to the peculiar socio-economic, tribal and political set-up of the province that has remained unchanged in the past 56 years. Both in tandem have resulted in a situation where the province has been left on the periphery of the federation, squeezed for its natural resources but never quite integrated into the national mainstream. According to General Pervez Musharraf himself, over 90 percent of Balochistanâs area is classified as âBâ grade as far as law and order is concerned. The leftist seperatist movement in Baluchistan in the 70âs was put down by the Army. The army has since resettled Afghan refugees and retired Punjabi and Pushtun servicemen into the province, causing the Baluchâs to become a minority in their howeland. The Baluchâs have hardly any presence in the Jihadi groups, with the notable exception of the Ramzi Yousef/Khalid Sheikh Mohammad clan.
No one in Balochistan is happy with Islamabad. This includes cadres of the mainstream parties as much as the nationalists on the fringe. On the issue of the cantonments, leaders of PONM (Pakistan Oppressed Nationalities Movement) have already warned Islamabad of dire consequences. The same sentiment was voiced by tribal leader and politician Nawab Akbar Bugti after the latest attack when he said that military cantonments were planned in Sui and Kohlu to âsuppress the local peopleâ. The question is: What can Islamabad do to bring the situation under control? Its strategy clearly should be linked to the two broad strands we have mentioned above. It needs to convince the people of Balochistan concretely that they are an important component of the federation; and it needs to formulate economic and political policies that can freely and without coercion integrate the province into the federation. In this regard it is vital to take a hard look at the social, economic and political structures of the province that demand sensitive and direct handling of the people of the province as opposed to the sardars. Such a policy would need a major political rethink not just in relation to Balochistan but also in relation to general political structures overall. The military in Pakistan has not allowed viable political processes to take root. Every week or so the gas pipeline in some part of Balochistan is blown up but nothing seems to stir. This apathy needs to go and the people need to be given a sense of political and economic participation for Islamabadâs grand dreams to materialise.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
06/22/2004 1:02:30 AM ||
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There are some old pipelines to Jordan and Israel, in severe disrepair.
Right now the country has the pipelines it needs for what it's producing. If you can't ship it or refine it, it gets pumped back into the ground and that's what has been happening. The southern fields are threatened with water infiltration, as well.
Rebels have launched attacks on at least three towns in the southern Russian region of Ingushetia, on the western border of Chechnya. According to an official in the presidential office of Ingushetia reached by CNN, the attacks appear to be coordinated and have hit three towns: the Ingush capital of Nazran, Karabulak, and Sleptsovsk. The official told CNN the situation was "not good," gunfire could be heard and communication with the Interior Ministry headquarters had been cut off. Several buildings have been attacked including the Interior Ministry, the Federal Security Service and the headquarters of the Border Guards. Ammunition depots are on fire, he said. He could not confirm reports that the acting Interior Minister had been killed.
A civilian reached by CNN who lives about 5 kilometers outside Nazran said residents there had been hearing explosions and gunfire since about 11pm local time. Russian Interior Ministry troops are fighting the rebels and reinforcements have been brought in, according to Interfax news agency. Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov, travelling in Russiaâs Far East, told reporters that he did not have detailed information about events unfolding in Ingushetia but said "there are sufficient forces in the region to stop such attacks."
Which is why they brought in reinforcements.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 12:45:54 AM ||
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VLADIKAVKAZ, Russia - Assailants armed with grenade- and rocket-launchers seized the Interior Ministry headquarters in Ingushetia, a Russian region bordering warring Chechnya (news - web sites), killing the acting minister, a ministry official said Tuesday. Attacks were also reported elsewhere in Ingushetia.
The Interior Ministry official said it was not immediately clear who the attackers were, but said some of them were shouting "Allahu akhbar" â a frequent cry of Chechnyaâs separatist rebels as their insurgency increasingly comes under the influence of radical Islam.
On Monday, the newspaper Kommersant quoted Chechnyaâs separatist president Aslan Maskhadov as saying that rebels were preparing to undertake new tactics.
The attack on the ministry building in the city of Nazran began late Monday, the official said on condition of anonymity. He later said other attackers seized police buildings in Ordzhonikidzevskaya, just over the border from Chechnya, and in Karabulak. Acting Ingush interior minister Abukar Koshtoyev was wounded in the first minutes of the fighting in Nazran and was taken to Vladikavkaz in neighboring North Ossetia, where he died, the ministry official said.
The ITAR-Tass news agency reported that the building of the border guard service in Nazran and an Interior Ministry warehouse in the city were on fire.
Heavy shooting was also reported in Makhachkala, the capital of Dagestan, which borders Chechnya to the east, the Interfax news agency said, citing an official of the local office of the Federal Security Service. However, shooting is common in Dagestan, and it was not immediately clear whether there was any connection to the attacks in Ingushetia.
On Monday, an official in the Moscow-backed Chechen administration said that six Russian soldiers had been killed in rebel attacks and explosions over the past day.
Posted by: Anonymous5089 ||
06/22/2004 12:43:26 AM ||
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An allegation that a high-ranking al Qaeda member was an officer in Saddam Husseinâs private militia may have resulted from confusion over Iraqi names, a senior administration official said yesterday.
Former Navy secretary John Lehman, a Republican member of the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, said Sunday that documents found in Iraq "indicate that there is at least one officer of Saddamâs Fedayeen, a lieutenant colonel, who was a very prominent member of al Qaeda." Although he said the identity "still has to be confirmed," Lehman introduced the information on NBCâs "Meet the Press" to counter a commission staff report that said there were contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda but no "collaborative relationship."
Yesterday, the senior administration official said Lehman had probably confused two people who have similar-sounding names.
One of them is Ahmad Hikmat Shakir Azzawi, identified as an al Qaeda "fixer" in Malaysia. Officials say he served as an airport greeter for al Qaeda in January 2000 in Kuala Lumpur, at a gathering for members who were to be involved in the attacks on the USS Cole, the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
Iraqi military documents, found last year, listed a similar name, Lt. Col. Hikmat Shakir Ahmad, on a roster of Husseinâs militia, Saddamâs Fedayeen.
"By most reckoning that would be someone else" other than the airport greeter, said the administration official, who would speak only anonymously because of the matterâs sensitivity. He added that the identification issue is still being studied but "it doesnât look like a match to most analysts."
In an interview yesterday, Lehman said it is still possible the man in Kuala Lumpur was affiliated with Hussein, even if he isnât the man on the Fedayeen roster. "Itâs one more instance where this is an intriguing possibility that needs to be run to ground," Lehman said. "The most intriguing part of it is not whether or not he was in the Fedayeen, but whether or not the guy who attended Kuala Lumpur had any connections to Iraqi intelligence. . . . We donât know."
Allegations that Ahmad Hikmat Shakir Azzawi was under Iraqi intelligence control were raised last year in an article in the Weekly Standard by Stephen F. Hayes, and later discounted by U.S. intelligence officials. No such tie was indicated in the commission report.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 12:23:47 AM ||
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#1
Another nameless "senior administration official". Uh huh.
#3
Keep in mind that Al-Qaeda needed Iraq for the latter's ability to provide chemical and biological weapons. Al-Qaeda did not need Iraq's help for the 9/11 attack.
I think that Iraq's apparent involvement in this Malaysia meeting and Iraq's meetings with Atta in Prague are related to a parallel plot to prepare a later chemical or biological attack on the USA. Iraq certainly could have been involved in this and yet be entirely ignorant about the 9/11 attack.
When Atta was in the USA he, it seems, spent some of his time doing basic research about crop dusters. We know for certain that Massoui researched crop dusters. It seems that at least one of Atta's fellow jackers was injured by anthrax while in the USA. Al-Qaeda's main expert on anthrax lived in Malaysia. Put this altogether, and Iraq fits right in -- even if Iraq does not fit directly into the 9/11 attack.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/22/2004 13:42 Comments ||
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Yup. I don't know why the anthrax stuff is conveniently forgotten by the MSM.
#5
Allegations that Ahmad Hikmat Shakir Azzawi was under Iraqi intelligence control were raised last year in an article in the Weekly Standard by Stephen F. Hayes, and later discounted by U.S. intelligence officials.
I don't think the MSM is entirely to blame for not pursuing links between Iraqi intelligence officers and attacks on the USS Cole, the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The CIA/FBI has consistently denied any link and according to Jayna Davis, author of "The Third Terrorist", have been purposely obstructive to any investigator trying to uncover such links.
I'll bet anything the reason the US does not want the MSM to pursue this story, and alluded to by Jayna Davis in a recent radio interview, has a great deal to do with the fact that the Iraqi intelligence officers in the US were brought here as a result of the asylum given to them after Gulf War I. George Bush Sr. agreed to the asylum plan and Clinton implemented the agreement. So you have 2 Presients innocently providing a safe haven to terrorists at taxpayers expense, no less. The American public would be furious, if this story came out. That's my theory for what it's worth.
Posted by: rex ||
06/22/2004 14:05 Comments ||
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Russian officials and witnesses now say the death toll stands at 22 from attacks by heavily-armed insurgents in a region near the border with Chechnya. Dozens more were wounded in coordinated attacks on police headquarters, border checkpoints and government offices in Ingushetia. Officials say the attack by scores of insurgents happened shortly before midnight Monday. Witnesses say the attackers wore masks and spoke with accented Russian. Itâs not clear if they were separatist rebels.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 12:32:19 AM ||
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An explosion at an electricity distribution centre in the Algerian capital injured 11 people late on Monday, officials said, but were unable to say what caused the blast which also destroyed nearby cars. Interior Minister Noureddine Yazid Zerhouni said a technical investigation had been launched into the explosion, which occurred a day after Algeria said its forces killed the leader of the main Islamic militant group, which is linked to al Qaeda. Algerian anti-terrorist officials were at the scene, along with fire-fighters, who quickly extinguished a blaze that broke out after the blast at about 10 p.m. (2100 GMT). "We canât say exactly what provoked this incident but the essential organs (of the plant) were not touched," Zerhouni told reporters on a visit to the site.
The Algerian official news agency APS quoted him as saying the explosion, near the Sofitel hotel in central Algiers, might have had an accidental cause. But a local resident, who asked not to be identified, said: "Itâs pretty clear this was a car bomb. Just look at that burned out car." Along with the burned-out wreck were the mangled parts of another vehicle. A large section of state-owned Sonelgazâs main wall had been ripped open and part of the plantâs facade was destroyed. Debris was strewn across a street and nearby windows were blown out. "After I heard the explosion I rushed to the scene and saw bodies on the street, metal and glass everywhere and some of the people looked dead. It was awful," said a local resident who identified himself as Mohamed.
Zerhouni said four of the 11 injured were in serious condition. Many local residents went into the streets after the blast, as ambulance sirens wailed across Algiers, a city of four million people. "It bears the hallmarks of a terrorist attack and if this is confirmed by authorities it marks the first time in several years the capital was hit by a car bomb," said a security expert who declined to be identified.
"I will say no more!"
It has not yet publicly reacted to the slaying of Nabil Sahraoui and three of his main aides but earlier this month said it would continue its fight.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 12:26:13 AM ||
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The Algerian jihad continues to kill and kill and kill more of the innocent. For what?
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/22/2004 2:15 Comments ||
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I worked in a power plant and don't remember any accident damaging anything in the parking lot.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/22/2004 3:30 Comments ||
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I worked in a power plant
It's Super Homer!
Posted by: Chris W. ||
06/22/2004 12:34 Comments ||
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CIA had "less than a handful" of sources in prewar Iraq and could not get access to suspected weapons programs, the departing head of the agencyâs spy service has said. "As some critics have claimed, during the pre-war period, we did not have many Iraq sources. We certainly did not have enough," James Pavitt, CIA deputy director for operations, said in a speech to the Foreign Policy Association. "Until we put people on the ground in northern Iraq, we had less than a handful," said Pavitt on Monday, who has announced plans to retire in August.
No quiver on my digital surprise meter.
He said the CIA was unable to gain access to the "heart of Saddamâs weapons programs." But in the months before the war the agency got closer to the political and military inner circles and collected intelligence the U.S. military found vital when it entered Iraq, he said. The CIAâs presence in Iraq is now the largest anywhere since the Vietnam War, Pavitt said.
Hmmm... Gimme some time. I'll figure out why...
The United States had faced difficulties recruiting Iraqi spies before the war because potential sources were fearful of retribution from Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and wary of the U.S. commitment to overthrow him, Pavitt said. "You cannot recruit spies in a vacuum," he said. "The decade before was a time when on the one hand we were saying quietly we needed to overthrow Saddam, on the other hand we werenât saying that with any great vigor publicly." He said the CIA had nothing to do with misleading information given to the Pentagon by Iraqi defectors and refugees linked to exile groups intent on overthrowing Saddam. "Those controversial spies, if you will, were not my spies."
"They were Tenet's spies, every one!"
The threat from al Qaeda remains nearly three years after the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, he said. "Al Qaeda has unambiguous plans to hit the homeland again, and New York City, I am certain, remains a prime target." U.S. efforts against al Qaeda have inflicted "irrevocable damage" on parts of the network, but it has "poisoned an international movement" fueling attacks around the world, Pavitt said. "Weâve got to realize that the war we are in is one which in my mind has no end in sight." Pavitt described as unwarranted and ill-informed some of the criticisms leveled at the CIA, and denied charges the agency has a risk-averse culture. He cited successes such as finding Saddamâs sons, who were then killed by U.S. forces. He credited a CIA officer in Iraq "who dealt with a nervous, jumpy intelligence volunteer who promised, and delivered, the location of Uday and Qusay Hussein."
That was a good day, wasn't it?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 12:20:32 AM ||
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Sanity check: Even if they had lots and lots of operatives in Iraq before the war, there's no way they'd own up to it. "Sure, we had no trouble penetrating that madman's closed regime. Like taking candy from a baby." That sort of thing would probably lead to worldwide purges whereas this routine will make religious zealots and dictators worldwide feel nice and comfy. I have a funny feeling these guys paint themselves as a bunch of bumbling idiots far more often than they act like a bunch of bumbling idiots.
AL Qaeda militants threatening to behead a South Korean businessman are holding 10 other foreigners, including a European journalist, it was claimed last night. As the deadline approached for the execution, South Korea refused to bow to demands. It said it would go ahead with plans to send 3000 troops to Iraq despite the abduction of Kim Sun-il and the televised broadcast of his desperate pleas to stay alive.
Mr Kim was being held by Jamaâat al Tawhid and Jihad, a group led by Jordanian Abu Musab al Zarqawi, which last month beheaded an American hostage, Nick Berg. South Koreaâs Yonhap news agency reported that as many as 10 other foreigners were being held with him, including the journalist and "third country" employees for the US-based contractor, Kellogg Brown & Root. The agency cited as its source Mr Kimâs employer, Gana General Trading, a Korean firm supplying goods to the US military. Kim Chun-ho, the head of Gana, said in Baghdad some of the hostages were seen by an Iraqi go-between who had tried to negotiate the South Koreanâs release.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/22/2004 12:18:27 AM ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
