Event: Sadr proves a tough nut to crack
Group: Sadr and his goons
Narrative: Two months from now, Sadr is still alive and free, and his forces still waging war against the coalition.
Window: 0 Months (6/9/2004)
Probability 70% entered by Aris Katsaris on 4/10/2004
Probability 80% entered by mturner on 4/10/2004
Probability 40% entered by Steve from Relto on 4/12/2004
Probability 30% entered by Laurence of the Rats on 4/14/2004
Overall opinion is Possible (55%)
Current opinion is Possible (50%)
Posted by: Fred ||
06/09/2004 10:17:40 PM ||
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Two months from now, Sadr is still alive and free, and his forces still waging war against the coalition.
If by "waging war" you mean dying every time they confront coalition forces.
Posted by: Charles ||
06/09/2004 22:27 Comments ||
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Didn't say he'd be successful at it, just a PITA...
#3
I don't know about this...The only reason why he is still alive is the US Military decided to do things differently....and it worked out.
Goat-boy got lucky!
We will find out within a week whether this is a big one. In the mean time you can research âThe year without a summerâ to find out what we have to look forward to if it is big one. Clue = a lot of unemployed climate change experts. A MAJOR eruption shook a volcano in northeastern Indonesia today, hurling stones and spewing smoke, but causing no injuries because the thousands of villagers living along the mountains slopes already were evacuated.
The explosion on Mount Awu in Sangihe Island, some 2,160 kilometres northeast of Jakarta, was followed by several smaller blasts and aftershocks. Volcanologists predicted that the eruptions would continue for some time.
"Mount Awu has already begun to explode with the major eruption on Thursday morning," said Syamsul Rizal, a volcanologist dispatched to the island.
"We cannot predict when it will end since many smaller blasts and aftershocks continue to occur," he said.
The eruption threw up rocks near the volcanoâs crater and spewed smoke about 3,000 metres into the air, but there was no lava flow, Mr Rizal said. These kinds of volcanos eject gas and dust or explode rather than produce large lava flows.
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/09/2004 11:26:10 PM ||
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First the economy recovered, then we got a unanimous Iraq resolution, now global warming goes on the shelf for two years. What can go wrong next for Kerry? Tereza files for divorce so she can marry Hillary?
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
06/09/2004 23:52 Comments ||
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"Clue = a lot of unemployed climate change experts."
Nah. Climatologists love this kind of stuff because it lets them play with their models. Granted, global warming ninnies might be upset though.
They earn good money, pay no taxes, enjoy luxurious lifestyles and lead insulated lives in Western compounds. A year of increasingly violent attacks against Western targets that killed more than 80 people had done little to unsettle the lives of Saudi Arabiaâs tens of thousands of expatriates â until May 29. That dayâs attack by Al Qaeda on the residential Oasis compound in the oil city of Khobar in eastern Saudi Arabia seemed different. "That was horrific...What made it different was the hostage-taking. They went asking people about their religion and nationality," said Frances Ross, a Canadian dentist who lives at the posh Kingdom expatriate compound in the capital Riyadh. "I donât feel safe on the compound anymore because Oasis was a very secure compound and they were able to get in.
"I have no confidence that the guards outside our compounds are not sympathizers of Al Qaeda and giving them information about us," added another expatriate who did not give her name.
Sitting by the pool at the heavily-fortified Kingdom compound a week after the attack, the talk among the expatriates was the same â who is leaving and who will stay. Most said the Khobar attack, on a compound similar to theirs, made them recognize the danger.
"If they [militants] can walk into a compound what would stop them? Whatâs next? When they managed to escape that was the last straw that made me decide to leave," said Saeed Karam, a Lebanese who works for an advertising firm.
"Weâre in a dilemma. Being in a compound is like being a sitting duck. If we canât live on compounds itâs better to leave. This is why expatriates tolerated life here, the compound environment is friendly and free. If this is out of the formula itâs not worth living here," he added. Layla, an American-Egyptian, was already packing to leave for Egypt with her two daughters but said her husband would stay in his job in Saudi Arabia.
"My husband feels there is an escalation, that the situation will not get back to normal. After this attack, he immediately decided we should leave," she said.
"Iâm very upset about leaving. Iâve lived here for 20 years. For me this is home. My daughter hasnât stopped crying. She doesnât want to go. I could convince my husband to change his mind but I donât want to take the risk. If something happens Iâll never forgive myself. What happened is beyond imagination." An estimated six million foreigners work in Saudi Arabia, home to 24 million people. Most of the roughly 100,000 Westerners enjoy affluent lifestyles in compounds that compensate for the kingdomâs ultraconservative customs.
Entering one is like stepping into another world of miniature Western towns. Women can dress without a veil or abaya (traditional cloak), they mingle freely with men â customs prohibited by Saudi Arabiaâs austere interpretation of Islamic Sharia law.
Inside, life is an up-market replica of home. They have mixed swimming pools, tennis courts, spas, restaurants, recreation centers, supermarkets, their own schools, boutiques and some have cinemas which are banned in the rest of the country. This luxury has lost its appeal. Many, feeling jittery, said their peace of mind vanished after the Khobar assault. It prompted many foreigners to consider repatriating dependants while they continue with their jobs. Some companies have decided to send Western staff home or relocate them to Bahrain or the United Arab Emirates.
Many were still undecided and waiting for the school year to end. The Swedish school in Riyadh which caters for 800 Swedish residents, had just employed two extra teachers, but there are only 10 confirmed pupils for next year. "We just got here in March. Weâre considering our options... We did not want to leave but we might cut short our assignment," said Ross, whose husband works for a French firm.
Many said the environment has become much more hostile and they were trying to adopt a low profile, avoiding hotels, restaurants and other places frequented by Westerners.
"I donât go to downtown shopping or to the souks like before. I donât go to the supermarket anymore," said Scott, an American contractor. "When I am driving I try not to be in the middle lane, I am conscious of my surroundings and try to ensure I have the room to flee if I am chased," he said.
Born and brought up in Saudi Arabia where his father worked, Scott said he would base his decision to leave on finances and not security. "I donât feel more at risk of dying here than when Iâm home," said Scott, whose compound was one of three struck by suicide bombers in May last year.
Most Westerners said they feel safe and welcomed by business associates and ordinary Saudis but that the hatred of Islamists who regard them as infidels worth killing has got to them.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 1:47:08 PM ||
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And your thoughts, .com?
Posted by: Dar ||
06/09/2004 13:55 Comments ||
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This is why expatriates tolerated life here, the compound environment is friendly and free. If this is out of the formula itâs not worth living here," he added
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/09/2004 14:35 Comments ||
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#4
Well, first off, it's not tax-free for Americans, lol! It is for Canadians, 100%. For Brits I think there are reduced taxes, like for Americans, because you don't get any (and I mean zero) of the bennies of being an American or a Brit at home.
The article's conversations sound about right - not stilted or faked. But what they call "luxury" is nothing more than what you'd call normal life. Having "normal" there is very expensive - such as $1200 and up per month for a small apartment. You NYC people are nuts, so don't start yelling that's not expensive! In Dallas, the $1500/month I was paying for a tiny hole in the wall would get me a palacial setup - and a pretty nice setup in Del Mar north of Sammy Dago, er, San Diego. The Oasis apartments ran about $4000+/month and up for a 2 BDRM - and you still had to drink bottled water - tap water in the expensive places was only slightly better than first-pass out of the desalination plant - which will kill your houseplants.
What really rings true, and we were just starting to feel the fear that someone is out to get you when I decided to bail a year ago, are those quotes at the end: "I donât go to downtown shopping or to the souks like before. I donât go to the supermarket anymore," said Scott, an American contractor. "When I am driving I try not to be in the middle lane, I am conscious of my surroundings and try to ensure I have the room to flee if I am chased," he said.
Spot on. It got weird at the end - and I've been gone a year. Going to the Al Tamimi Safeway or the Panda / Al Aziziya at night felt dicey. I, too, consciously kept myself positioned so I was never boxed in when driving. Litter and trash around your car when you came out had to be checked - a milk carton up against your tire which you would have to run over when you left was given a slow thorough look. You checked inside the wheel wells on top of your tires. Looked for hand prints - especially on the hood of the car. With all the dust, they were usually visible. Etc.
The last quote, "I donât feel more at risk of dying here than when Iâm home." is the only one I'd say was a stretch. You sure don't have to do the stuff I mentioned above outside of places like SA - unless you're a Mafia Don. It's the old "what you know is right" syndrome. He's become inured to his surroundings. It's a helluvalot more dangerous there just to drive, for example, that it is in the US. But it's "true" to him cuz that's what he thinks is normal.
But all that aside, I'd say it's an accurate article - and for Al Jizz to play it straight like this, tells us that they know the truth of the situation is bad enough and didn't need the usual over-the-top embellishing. The Expats with families who can (not exiled by legal hassles or the IRS or whatever), will leave, period. The men may send the families back and soldier on for awhile. The singles are the only ones who might hang around, like the Scott guy they quoted. He's gonna be a statistic because his threat radar is skewed by living there all his life - he thinks it's normal. Those raised in America or the UK or Canada, etc, will get out when it comes close - when someone they know becomes a news story.
It's over. Time to move on to a gig in Eastern Europe or other place where your skills can get you a job and your adventure gene can get its fix.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/09/2004 16:56 Comments ||
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YS - Thx - I responded to you a few days ago that I had already left - I guess you didn't see it.
Of course, I have about 20-30 people still there that have me worried all the time, now. All are either in Dhahran Camp or Al Khobar - and I almost dread the headlines when I first get on the 'Net these days expecting to hear the worst. And the damned jihadis are keeping up the pace, too. Shit. Never thought of myself as "mother hen" before!
A4617 - It would be interesting for many if you'd tell what it's like for you, as a woman. Life inside the Camp and excursions outside to Khobar. In fact, I would bet that one of the buses that takes women & children out shopping in Khobar, both those originating inside the Camp or from a compound like Oasis, will soon be a target. Imagine the headlines if they kill 20 women and 20 kids on one of them. Your description would enlighten many! And, BTW, stay in the Camp, okay? Plz?
Posted by: Dar ||
06/09/2004 17:21 Comments ||
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.com, is there any chance that these jihadis are somewhat envious of the stuff the Westerners have in the compounds, since some of it you can't get outside of them? If this was, say, the Soviet Union, I might not hesitate to assume that, but when you're dealing with Islam, I've found, there are a lot of strange things; sometimes they seem to go for what they can (Royal Family and other Saudis once they get to the West), and other times they're out to ban it all.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/09/2004 17:29 Comments ||
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Doctor - No, I don't think that's how I'd put it... There may be some aspect of jealousy, but it's not a driving factor. Their behavior fits this Dylan verse almost perfectly:
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the Rat Race choir
Bent out of shape by Society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the Hole that he's in
#10
There's another big question that occurs to me: how safe are western expats in places like Bahrain, Agu Dhabi, or Dubai? Or, while we're at it, Egypt?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
06/09/2004 19:21 Comments ||
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Phil - They're not safe. Add Indonesia, Malasia, Morrocco, Tunisia, S. Thailand, Qatar, etc. These place all have some useful idiot segment that would happily facilitate attacks. Look at Morrocco - I would have thought it as safe as the UAE once upon a time. No, they will take opportunities as their numbers and resources permit - wherever they are or find targets. If no recources, then the numbers won't mean nearly as much - if you get my meaning. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean? Heh.
Payback's coming. For the jihadis, the enablers, and the states - including the US. Big changes will have to come, and as the victims mount, the will to change will come along behind.
#12
Ex-pat life would be easier if they lived as occupiers. Millions of Hindus, Phillipinos and South Americans have the skills to run the oil industry, under Anglo-American command. I would turf the Wahabs out to the desert, where they can live with camels and scorpions. Mecca and Medina? Five H-Bs each!
#13
.com, I was thinking in terms of both useful idiots trying to commit violence and shit-hit-the-fan scenarios.
I guess a better question would be: if the shit hits the fan in Saudi Arabia, how long is it going to take until there are problems of varying degrees in Bahrain, or the UAE, or Egypt? Are there likely to be "sympathetic revolutions"?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
06/09/2004 23:16 Comments ||
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They've been having a slow-burn level of crap in Bahrain for about 18 months, now. The new "king" pardoned all of the "militants" that the old Emir had exiled. What a dumbass. Ever since, they've been headed toward the extreme. Example: ALL of the bars outside of the "approved" hotels are closed, now, etc. All the talk about liberalization in Bahrain is BS - it lasted about a minute - did a 180 deg turn and been headed toward extremism for that 18 months. The turbans run everything the "king" and PM don't handle (read: skim from) directly.
I haven't been to the UAE in about 3 yrs - so I can't speak to specifics there, sorry.
Egypt seems to be a pot that boils constantly - and the Brotherhood was very busy lately, IIRC. Seems to me Dan (or was it Paul?) posted some heavy stuff on them in the last few weeks. Mubarek's position is precarious, IMHO. As long as he's willing to be utterly ruthless it seems he can stop it boiling over. I think a Saudi collapse would end all pretenses, however. Mubarek's not a tough AF Officer Stud anymore - he's pure despot - and old. Think he'll hang on if SA falls or just turns chaotic and limps along? I don't - I think he steals more from his US Aid than Arafart ever dreamed of getting away with - who's to stop him? He doesn't have faith his son can take over - I think he'll retire somewhere expensive. Just my $0.02.
#15
Any staying in the Magic Kingdom or similar might like to look at Daniel Pipe's tip for how to survive a kidnapping or shooting attack, where the attackers try to distinguish Muslims from Non-Muslims for execution.
#16
.com,
You are so right when you say that some people here have a distorted perception of what is normal. Just yesterday, this particular dim wit from down the street, was commenting how living in New orleans was far more dangerous than living here. This stupid woman could not understand that although there is a lot crime in the US, the motivation behind the crimes is different and, that, statistically speaking, the rate of murder here and now is a lot higher than in any city in the US. She refuses to see the difference between somebody hunting you down because you are white and a Westerner versus somebody trying to rob you and being killed in the process. That in the West, you can avoid being a victim of crime by avoiding certain areas and that there is no place to hide here. That in the US (the West) people do not take others out of their homes and execute them because of their religious beliefs.
People have different goals when they come here. Ours was to save money so we could retire before 50. We never have considered or will consider this a paradise. This country is devoid of everything that makes life interesting (theaters, museums, gigantic libraries, symphonies, festivals, true diversity of cultures, etc) and a lot people fall into the trap of spending what they should be saving to make life tolerable. Of course, there are those to whom having access to a swimming pool and cheap labor (maid, garderners,etc) is their idea of paradise. It is not ours or our friend's.
The one thing that made life tolerable for us, besides the money, of course, was taken away on Sept 11th: going to the desert to camp out. Our first year, we camped out across the country from Dhahran to the outskirt of Medina (infidels are not allowed in the city). Now we cannot even go outside this freaking compound for fear of being shot dead.
#17
A4617 - I have some friends still there who used to do the 4WD thing down in the empty quarter - collecting artifacts when they could find them. I say "used to" only because I assume they have or will stop, now.
I certainly understand your situation. First trip over I didn't figure it out very well - spent most of what I made. Last time I lived like a dog - only the lowest-end compound apartment I could find for a "perk" and saved quite a bit. But when it began to feel "wrong" I didn't hesitate to get out and stop trying to hang around. The adventure wore thin when the travel costs too much. It was really cheeeeep to get to great places, like Singapore or Bangkok, on the first trip. After Gulf War I, however, the inflated air prices stayed inflated - never really came back down because people were willing to pay. Rip-off. So second trip lost the only thing that really attracted me. So, I just put my head down and worked.
That dimwit is well-named. N.O. is definitely okay if you know your way around, and I do, a little.
I have a recommendation for you & yours. Some weekend, hop over to Bahrain and go to a restaurant named Ric's Country Kitchen. It's across a wide, open, empty block, from the Main Moskkk. I may have this mangled, but here goes... If you stay on the same highway that turns into the Causeway, take it all the way to the Arch and turn left, as 3 of 4 lanes do (IIRC), you will see the Moskkk come up on the right after a few miles. Turn right on last street before the moskkk and then look to your right and you'll see the open empty block then a row of bldg facing you on the next street over running parallel - Ric's is there. He's a Cajun who cooks Texas & TexMex, too. For breakfast - the Lumberjack will test your stamina. For Lunch or Dinner - the steaks or the BBQ - both rock. A great taste of home. Best fried okra and chicken fried steak in the ME!
Posted by: Rafael ||
06/10/2004 1:08 Comments ||
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#19
Rafael - there's not enough housing in-Camp - at any of the Aramco facilities (some have 'camp' housing) - already. And Camp housing is reserved for 'Aramcons' - employees, Contractors need not apply. And the Saudization program means don't hire Expats as employees, hire as Contractors. Point being, the Aramco "improved security" is total horseshit - they're hiring people who will have to live in Khobar compounds. Game. Set. Match. They will have to relax other rules, such as no one under 35, no less than 10 yrs experience in occupation being hired for, maybe the Univ Degree which must be relevant to occupational title, and who knows what else. I think they can get fools, but they'll have to make some compromises. All of those requirements (and others not advertised) are designed to give them stable, non-womanizing, non-drunkard, professional people. It works. When they change them to fit who's applying, they won't get the same Steady Eddie types. They prolly will have to pay through the nose, too. I think it is a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. But hey, mebbe they can limp along for awhile.
Thanks for the suggestion. We have been to Ric's several times. It is a cholesterol feast!
We stopped going to Bahrain after an incident, where a bunch of ninja looking "militants" went into a restaurant and threatened to kill westerners and alcohol-drinking muslims alike. The number of demostrations there have increased in the past few months and in the last one, bricks and other objects were flown at the Embassy walls. I believe some people got hurt. Moreover, the causeway is a target now.
Did you frequent Pacos?
#21
Ah, So even Bahrain isn't worth it now. I've got some friends who must be dying, then. How in the world can anyone "hang out" on the Causeway to do nastiness? I certainly can't see it without complicity from the Customs and/or Immigration people. Sheesh! And that means you have to fly out through Dammam - which sucks, IMHO!
Pacos - nope, I didn't find that one. Hmmm, it rings a small bell... I seem to recall some billboards in Bahrain advertising that name - a restaurant? Lol! Wish I'd run into you way back when!
Senor Pacos is the oldest Mexican resturant in Bahrain. It is behind the Gulf Hotel, towards the Port.
About the Causeway, it is not about being shot or decapitated we are worried about. it is about being blown up. The "head" terrorist issued an statement after the Khobar massacre, naming it as a possible target. Suicide bombing is a very distinct possibility here.
Not being able to go to Bahrain is bad for us but imagine how bad it will be for the thousands of Saudis (and other muslims) who, this year, will not be able to go on a binge in preparation for their holy month of hypocrisy.
#23
Re: Senor Pacos - Never made it there, though I stayed in the Gulf back in '92.
Re: Causeway - yeah, I guess a suicider could pull it off - I get it.
Re: RamaLamaDingDongers - Lol! We used to try out bars in Bahrain trying to find something interesting, but the Saudis always ruined it. In fact, speaking of the Gulf Hotel, ever been to the StarLite Room downstairs there? I learned the hard way that you don't want to sit too close to the aisles leading to the bathroom. Mixing beer and Black Russians and Singapore Slings (prolly collecting the little umbrellas) the Saudis couldn't handle it... they'd make a mad dash for the bathroom and didn't always make it. I think Bobcat Goldthwaite calls it target-vomiting. Lol!
Wotta buncha 'tards. And, during Ramadan, the Saudis at Aramco are pretty funny - they stop coming in at all after about the first week. Dragging ass all day cuz they haven't had a moment's sleep in days. Trying to make up for 11 months of stupidity all at once doesn't work out very well! You must be describing in-Camp "sid" bingers!
Ah, I can tell you're gonna miss it! A tip: collect some of the really stupid shit before you go, like the Prayer Time cards they hang on the door, a few Prayer Schedules and rugs, and some Camp Newspapers, etc. People don't really "get it" until they experience it, but some of these things make it "real" for 'em. If you have a digital camera take alot of video, too! Lol!
Almost half of all Saudis said in a poll conducted last year that they have a favorable view of Osama bin Ladenâs sermons and rhetoric, but fewer than 5 percent thought it was a good idea for bin Laden to rule the Arabian Peninsula. The poll involved interviews with more than 15,000 Saudis and was overseen by Nawaf Obaid, a Saudi national security consultant. It was conducted between August and November 2003, after simultaneous suicide attacks in May 2003 when 36 people were killed in Riyadh. Obaid said he only recently decided to reveal the poll results because he felt the public needed to know about them."I was surprised [at the results], especially after the bombings," Obaid told CNN. The question put to Saudi citizens was "What is your opinion of Osama bin Ladenâs sermons and rhetoric?" "They like what he said about whatâs going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or about America and the Zionist conspiracy. But what he does, thatâs where you see the huge drop," said Obaid, referring to the bombings that had already begun taking place inside Saudi Arabia at the time the poll was conducted.
Sucks when you find yourself on the firing line, ain't it?
He also said he would like to update the poll numbers in the wake of the recent series of terrorist attacks that have taken place in Saudi Arabia. Forty-one percent said they favored strong and close relations with America, while only 39 percent said they had a favorable opinion of the Saudi armed forces, both results that Obaid also termed "surprising." "They donât trust their army," said Obaid, who noted that the security forces fared far better. He noted that less than a third of Saudis polled had a positive opinion of militant clerics, although government-appointed religious figures did better. The poll showed strong support for political reforms and allowing women to play a greater role in society. Almost two-thirds said they favored allowing women to drive, something they are currently banned from doing. While support for political reforms, particularly elections, was high, few Saudis viewed liberal reformers with much favor. Obaid said he shared the poll results -- some of which were published today in The Washington Post -- with members of the Interior and Foreign ministries, as well as the royal court. Some were "a bit wary" about the questions, Obaid said, particularly the ones relating to bin Laden, but he received support from the government when he conducted the poll. The margin of error was plus or minus three percentage points.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:47:29 AM ||
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Not exactly a sedating piece of news. Civilian uprising? Alternative fuel, anyone?
Saudi terrorists yesterday killed an American military adviser to the elite National Guard hours after al-Qaâeda warned Muslims to stay away from westerners, who were now a priority target. The dead man, Robert Jacobs, 62, worked for the Vinnell Corporation, an American defence contractor hired by the US military to train the guard, whose duties include protecting the Saudi royal family. It was the fifth assault on westerners in Saudi Arabia in five weeks and the second time in two days that an individual appeared to have been selected as a specific target. Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi ambassador to London, said the attacks "showed terrorists in Saudi Arabia had been reduced to opportunity targets rather than well-planned attacks such as the one mounted on Khobar [when 22 hostages were killed last month]". Police said the latest killing took place at about 2.30pm after shots were fired at the victimâs home in a residential area of eastern Riyadh. Some reports said he was followed home by three men after leaving a clinic and was shot inside his flat. Vinnell said that Mr Jacobs had chosen to live outside the companyâs protected compound.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:56:44 AM ||
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Ok, that's it. Time to whack Nayaf. His good guy/bad guy impersonation is gettin' REAL old.
#2
When I first came to Rantburg it was with a rant regarding the targeting of certain SA members with a certain train of thought. Not a kill or nuke them all, but a diliberate campaign to rid a certain area of the world, that has access to petrol dollars, of wageing covert warfare against the west.
Then I ranted that as each target is taken out we deny that it was us who dunit. A cold slap in the face of the double speak of our enemies.
If you are a Westerner living and working in the Magic Kingdom or elsewhere in the Middle East, hereâs an article that could save your life. It also, poignantly, reminds us all of the similarities between fascist Islamists and the Nazis.
After an Islamist rampage in the Saudi town of Khobar on May 29 and 30 that ended in the deaths of 22 people, survivors of that atrocity have recounted how the terrorists went to great lengths to ensure that they would kill only non-Muslims. Their actions raise a delicate but urgent issue: how might non-Muslims best protect themselves if caught in such a situation?
Even as the massacre was underway, the terrorists took pains to distinguish Muslims from non-Muslims. Here are some of the survivorsâ testimonies:
Hazem Al-Damen, Muslim, Jordanian: two terrorists knocked on his door and asked him and others hiding whether they were "Muslims or Christians." On hearing "Muslims," the assailants told them to stay in the room because their purpose was to rid the country of Americans and Europeans.
Abu Hashem, 45, Muslim, an Iraqi-American engineer (also called "Mike" in some accounts): The terrorists demanded his residency card, which documented his religion (Muslim) and nationality (American). That combination provoked an argument between two terrorists. "Heâs an American, we should shoot him," said one. "We donât shoot Muslims," replied the other. The two went back and forth until the latter decided it: âDonât be afraid. We wonât kill Muslims, even if you are an American." With this decision, the terrorists turned polite, even apologizing for breaking into Abu Hashemâs home, searching it, and leaving blood stains on his carpet.
Abdul Salam al-Hakawati, 38, Muslim, a Lebanese corporate financial officer: He and his family hid upstairs in their house after hearing gunfire. Downstairs, they heard the terrorists break in and rummage around before one apparently noticed framed Koranic verses on the wall and announced to the others, "This is a Muslim house." When a heavily armed terrorist came upstairs, Mr. Al-Hakawati confirmed his identity by greeting the assailant with "Assalamu âAlaykum," the Muslim greeting.
Nizar Hajazeen, Christian, a Jordanian software businessmen: He hid with another Jordanian in a room but they opened the door when two armed young men banged violently on it. The terrorists asked the identity of the Jordanians, Arab or Westerners. "Weâre Arab," came the response. Each was then asked, "A Christian or a Muslim?" Both claimed to be Muslims and showed a Koran as proof.
Taking care to kill only non-Muslims appears to be in response to widespread Saudi criticism of Islamist terrorism directed against Muslims; Saudis seem to agree that murder is a tool suitably directed only against non-Muslims, as two quotes suggest:
Abdelaziz Raikhan, a maintenance man for the Saudi security forces, responded to the suicide bombing of a police headquarters in Riyadh that killed 5 people and wounded 148 on April 21, accusing the perpetrators of being "mentally ill. ⊠Thereâs not one American in this entire area. Not one! What kind of jihad is this?"
Mohsen al-Awaji, a Saudi lawyer, suggests that terrorists should be encouraged by the authorities to go to the many "occupied territories that require resistance," such as in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, and Chechnya. "If someone decides to go, we wish him luck. Heâs going to die anyway, so let him die there while achieving something, not die here and kill innocents with him."
Nor is this the first time Islamists have specifically targeted infidels. In Malaysia in 2000, for example, jihadists purposefully killed two non-Muslim hostages and spared two others, both Muslims. In Pakistan in 2002, a police chief noted killers "took a good fifteen minutes in segregating the Christians and making sure that each one of their targets gets the most horrific death." The murderers separated Christians from Muslims by requiring each hostage to recite a verse from the Koran. Those who could not were shot.
In all these cases, non-Muslims facing jihadists could have saved themselves by passing as Muslims.
There are several ways they could have done this. They might have greeted their potential murderers with Assalamu âalaykum (which, ironically, means "peace be with you"). They might have recited in Arabic the Shahada, the Islamic statement of faith. Or they might have recited in Arabic the first sura (chapter) of the Koran, the essential prayer of Islam called the Fatiha ("Opening").
In the past, such knowledge would have saved lives. It could probably do so again in the future.
Shahada and Fatiha
Here is the text of the Shahada, the Islamic statement of faith, in a Latin-letter transliteration of the original Arabic and in translation:
Ashadu an la ilaha illa-llah
Wa ashhadu anna Muhammadan rasul-Ullah
There is no divinity but God
And Muhammad is the prophet of God
Here is the same for the Fatiha, the opening sura (chapter) of the Koran and the essential prayer of Islam:
In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate.
Praise be to God, Lord of the worlds;
The merciful, the compassionate;
King of the Day of Judgment.
You we worship and Your aid we seek.
Guide us on the straight path,
The path of those You have blessed, not those
who incurred wrath, nor those gone astray.
ironically this reminds me of the article the other day where SKor troops heading to Iraq were "converting" to Islam.
Posted by: Anon1 ||
06/09/2004 10:09:46 AM ||
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Daniel Pipes has an update on his site:
June 8, 2004 update: I have received a number of responses to this article along the lines of "You are suggesting that I forsake my religious tradition to save my life, which I will not do." To this I have several comments:
I respect this reaction.
I am not advocating religious dissimulation but pointing out the choice that a non-Muslim might face and making the information available with which to make that choice.
When non-Muslims are mortally threatened as described in the article above, they are not threatened for belonging to a religion (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.) but for not belonging to a religion (Islam).
#3
When I first show the headline, "Pipes Saves Lives", I thought it was referring to a 1 1/2 inch diameter, 3 foot long steel pipe with a rubber grip at one end. That just might have saved a couple of guys, particularly if one could do the "hide behind the door and whack 'em when they come through" trick.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/09/2004 10:50 Comments ||
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#4
What are the laws concerning private firearm possession there? If I were crazy enough to live in that place, I'd want to keep a .45 handy just in case I have a terrorist-induced Maalox Moment&trade.
#7
Trying the same "I am a Muslim" trick on the terrorists a second time will probably fail when everyone is doing it. I would call this "survival techniques for idiots." Steve White's Pipes save lives idea will probably save more lives that laying a soul brother trip on a terrorist.
Posted by: Alaska Paul in Chefornak ||
06/09/2004 15:00 Comments ||
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TGA: Based on the context of usage, I think it's "Allahu akbar".
As for this way of "surviving", all you're doing is turning yourself into a slave. Remember: Islam means "submission"; they don't care how you submit or why, so long as you submit.
(And remember, if you do this and later claim you didn't mean it, you're an apostate and subject to the death penalty.)
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/09/2004 15:54 Comments ||
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TGA - One night in the parking lot of the Al Rashid Mall (THE favorite place to shop and hang out for Saudis in Al Khobar / Dahrhan area), oh about 2.5 years ago, a pickup truck full of young twerps in standard Saudi Sunni garb all hollered "Fuck You!" at me in unison as they sped by. As the only pedestrian in sight, not to mention the only Westerner in sight, it was pretty obvious that they were yelling at me. Of course, instinctively, I hollered "Fuck You!" back - and they all roared with laughter and giggles.
So I think the American English "Fuck You!" is pretty universal, lol!
Of course today, if I was dumb enough to still be there and go shopping at Al Rashid at night, they might just shoot me, instead.
#13
Indeed. I believe the old gunfighters talked about being in a very "deliberate hurry." If you don't hit what you're aiming at, then it is pointless to fire - except for the confusion factor. Wyatt Earp's quote is perfect: "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything."
#14
Under Sharia, non-Muslims are forbidden from carrying weapons of any kind without explicit permission of the local religious authorities. This extends even to certain kinds of dining utensils.
#15
I cant even stand to read the shahada, much less say it.
I say NEVER. AND FU!
Anyway, one's soul is more important than one's body. Not to mention this is insulting to our soldiers on the front lines fighting these bastards...there's no shahada escape hatch for them, and there should be none for us either!
Semper Fi people!
Last week the Saudi Arabian government reversed years of policy when it promised to swiftly dissolve the operations of Al Haramain, a charity with close ties to the Saudi government the US alleges is one of the "principal" backers of Al Qaeda. Though US officials have complained about the charity since at least 1998, the Saudi governmentâs typical response had been that while some individuals within the sprawling charity might have ties to known terrorists, its operations were overwhelming peaceful and its problems not systemic.
"They're just into helping others, ya understand."
That all changed last week at a Saudi press conference held not in Riyadh but at its embassy in Washington, DC. It was evidence of how crucial the US relationship is to the Saudi monarchy as it grapples with a rising tide of militant activity at home - including the killing of an American worker Tuesday, the shooting of two BBC journalists Sunday, and attacks in Khobar that killed dozens late last month. "Al Qaeda is trying to destabilize our economy and our principality government," Adel Al-Jubeir, a foreign policy adviser to Crown Prince Abdullah, told reporters in Washington last week, explaining why the charity is being shut down. Mr. Jubeir said the kingdom is "going after the mindset that foments and justifies acts of terror" and that Saudi Arabi wants to ensure "there is no room for incitement or intolerance."
US counterterrorism and Treasury officials described Riyahdhâs decision to shutter Haramain and exercise more control over foreign aid as a minor major blow against Islamist terror groups. But other analysts greeted the Saudi announcement with some skepticism, noting that the problem is greater than one charity, and that past Saudi efforts to crack down have failed.
"I do think itâs a positive step but it was only a first step,ââ says Zachary Abuza, a professor at Simmons college in Boston and a specialist in Al Qaeda and militant Islamist movements. Mr. Abuza points out that there are a number of other Saudi charities tied to terror - among them the World Assembly of Moslem Youth, or WAMY, and the International Islamic Relief Organization. Neither group was mentioned at last weekâs press conference. "They have to put all of these groups under special government control, and it doesnât seem theyâre doing it yet,ââ says Abuza.
It isnât the first major announcement made by Jubeir on Al Haramain. In June 2003, he said in Washington that Haramainâs international operations would be shut down immediately, but that was followed by a defiant statement in November from the charityâs founder and chairman, Aqeel al-Aqeel, who said the group was still at work in 70-odd countries. Mr. Aqeel was later removed for calling attention to himself.
In the 1990s, many of the kingdomâs most militant and committed preachers and young men were sent overseas to work and preach. They were given tacit approval for militant activities abroad so long as the same methods were not brought to bear against the monarchy, which men like Osama bin Laden consider to be corrupt and illegitimate. The approach was seen as a release valve for the most extreme religious strains inside Saudi Arabia. Al Haramain was one of the main conduits to the "Services Bureau" run by Mr. bin Laden in Afghanistan during the war against the Soviets, and which later evolved into Al Qaeda.
With violence rising inside Saudi Arabia now, US officials say that Riyadh is convinced it needs to change tack. "I think the action ... was an important one. It was far-reaching. It indicates [Saudi] seriousness [in] dealing with the issue of terrorism finance," US Treasury Secretary John Snow told reporters last week.
As Fred notes, a few decapitations will be needed to convey seriousness on the matter.
However, Lee Wolosky, a former director for transnational threats on the National Security Council under Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, says that while shuttering Al Haramain is a "very significant step" there have been promises of Saudi reform in the past that werenât carried out. "These issues are always matters of implementation,ââ says Mr. Wolosky. "Thereâs been very spotty enforcement in the past, some but not all of it attributable to officials in Riyadh."
Wolosky also says the full scope of the Saudi reforms isnât clear, and that if they donât include organizations like WAMY, they will have less bite. "Question No. 1 is âwill all of these charities be folded into this new government entity,âââ says Wolosky. "A lot of the likely suspects werenât mentioned in the press conference."
Wotta surprise.
Another problem is that while Saudi Arabiaâs words have been tough, the country has yet to take tough action against key Al Haramain figures, particularly Aqeel, the organizationâs founder and chairman until late last year. "Under Aqeelâs leadership ... numerous [Al Haramain] field offices and representatives operating throughout Africa, Asia, Europe, and North America appeared to be providing financial and material support to the Al Qaeda network," the US Treasury Department said in a press release last week.
Still, while Aqeel was removed from Al Haramain in late 2003, he hasnât been arrested in Saudi Arabia for his alleged terrorist ties, nor have Wael Julaidan or Yassin al-Qadi, two other Al Haramain leaders the US has put on its terrorism watch list. Aqeel told two Arab-language newspapers last week that he intends to go to court in the US to protest the US allegations. "I have helped the poor, the orphans, and widowed explode themselves in Jerusalem streets,ââ he told Al-Hayat, a London-based paper. "These accusations are wrong and we will prove it."
While direct ties to terrorism are one thing, the US has also long worried about the intolerant brand of Islam that Saudi charities seek to export. The World Assembly of Moslem Youth, for instance, distributes and publishes books worldwide - some describing a vast Jewish conspiracy to take over the world and destroy Muslims. "Itâs not just direct links to terrorism,ââ says Abuza. "Itâs the infrastructure of terror that these groups put in place, creating mosques and scholarships that get people into an intolerant system," says Abuza.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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THE slum where an Irish cameraman was killed and a British BBC reporter was critically wounded on Sunday is only a short drive from the bright neon lights, towering skyscrapers, gated royal palaces and walled residential compounds of Riyadh. But, as the impoverished epicentre of Saudi Arabiaâs new Islamic insurgency, it is a world away from the wealthy capitalâs veneer of 21st century modernity.
Purple, meet prose.
The southern Al-Suwaidi district has a reputation as a bastion of strict Wahhabism even among the other residents of the ultraconservative Islamic kingdom. It attracts a stream of villagers idiots from the surrounding countryside in search of a better life in the city.
The more than half-a-million people already crammed into the district live in a massive entanglement of narrow lanes, pot-holed roads and open sewers, and suffer frequent power and water outages. Since they are the people most attracted by Al-Qaedaâs call to rid the kingdom of corruption and decadence, the slum has predictably become a fertile breeding ground for Islamic extremism.
It is also a perfect environment for the kind of guerilla warfare that Al-Qaedaâs leader in Saudi Arabia, Abdul Aziz Al-Muqrin, called for just two days before last weekâs attacks in Khobar, which left 22 people dead.But until now, the radicals had, by necessity, taken their fight from the slums and into the cities.
Recognising its potential for providing recruits to the cause of Osama bin Laden, reform-minded de facto leader Crown Prince Abdullah made a tour of Al-Suwaidi last November. On live TV, he admitted to a socioeconomic problem that many rich Saudis and conservative members of the royal family would still prefer not to acknowledge, even privately.
"This place sucks. No way I'd want my harem living here."
Nevertheless, Saudis know how untrustworthy are the promises of reform from the Al-Saud ruling family, and slum dwellers contrast their own lives with the opulence and indulgence of the Saudi princes and âinfidelâ Westerners just a few kilometres away.
Although Al-Suwaidi, like other slums on the edge of all of the kingdomâs new urban centres, effectively becomes a police no-go area after dark, in the last eight months it has been the scene of at least two armed clashes between the Saudi security forces and suspected militants.
On Sunday, Mr Gardner was on his way with his cameraman to film the family home of Al-Rayyes when they were attacked. Al-Arabiya television showed footage of Mr Gardner sitting on the tarmac with multiple bullet wounds. According to a police officer, he pleaded for his life while shouting to onlookers to help him. As shocking as the bloodstains on his white pullover was the fact that local residents appeared to have merely looked on, apparently unmoved by the sight of this âinfidelâ in such distress.
Wasn't a big deal to 'em, was it?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Ironically enough, the BBC reporter, Mr. Gardner, was not an "infidel" or at least he didn't think he was. In fact, Mr. Gardner was a Muslim convert and was very shocked to learn that conversion to Islam not to mention left wing BBC employment weren't enough to earn favorable treatment by the Islamofacists. So sad, too bad. You're one of "us" no matter how hard you try to be otherwise, Mr. Gardner.
Per LGF, picture of the shooting scene:
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=10204
"Bullet-riddled BBC reporter cried in Arabic for help from bystanders as they watch him bleed in Riyadh"
Riddled with bullets, BBC correspondent Frank Gardner pleaded for his life in the Saudi capital shouting to bystanders to help a fellow Muslim, a police officer said on Monday.
"I'm a Muslim, help me, I'm a Muslim, help me," the British father of two daughters cried in Arabic, the officer said.
A fluent Arabic speaker with a degree in Arab and Islamic Studies, he was carrying a small copy of the Koran, the Muslim holy book, a device used by Westerner reporters to try to reassure Islamist militants
Posted by: rex ||
06/09/2004 1:21 Comments ||
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#2
Can't a fella Muslim get some help here? Where's Nurse Burka when ya need her?
#3
In fact, Mr. Gardner was a Muslim convert and was very shocked to learn that conversion to Islam not to mention left wing BBC employment weren't enough to earn favorable treatment by the Islamofacists.
As the black Muslims in Sudan are experiencing today.
I think one large reason Western news coverage coming from the Mideast and South Asia is so negative is that western news agencies use locals (or in this case a Muslim convert) to gather the news which is then disseminated by AP, CNN and all. This is equivalent to letting the Germans, or sympathetic neutrals such as Spain, write the WW2 Allied news copy. Americans used to agree that the enemy cannot have control of our information flow. What went wrong?
Posted by: ed ||
06/09/2004 2:47 Comments ||
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#4
What went wrong, #3, was the perceived need for "diversity" to invade every walk of life. In the 1980's, MSM started hiring black reporters to report on black issues, female reporters to report on family, feminist issues, gay reporters to report on gay issues, so it follows that now only Muslim reporters can report on ME, Islamic issues...right? Read Coloring the News by William McGowan if you get the chance. McGowan has a website: http://www.coloringthenews.com/
Posted by: rex ||
06/09/2004 3:00 Comments ||
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#5
It attracts a stream of villagers idiots from the surrounding countryside in search of a better life in the city.
Does anyone remember the "Village Idiots' Convention" in the Woody Allen Movie, "Love and Death"?
Britain heads to the polls on Thursday in the European, London mayoral and assembly and local elections. Fine weather is forecast for what is likely to be the last test of public opinion before a general election. Polling stations open from 0700 GMT to 2200 GMT, with the first local election results expected shortly after that. London mayoral and assembly and remaining local election results are expected on Friday evening, with the European result on Sunday evening.
Elections are taking place in 166 local English and Welsh councils, as well as for Londonâs mayor and assembly. All UK voters are also choosing their members of the European Parliament. Millions of people across Northern England and the East Midlands have already cast their vote in the biggest all-postal ballot ever attempted in the UK. As a result, European election turnout is already higher in many areas than in 1999.
But the final days of campaigning were marred in some areas by accusations of fraud and voter intimidation, which are being investigated by the police and the Electoral Commission. All-postal ballots are being piloted in the North East, North West, East Midlands and Yorkshire and Humber regions.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 11:01:23 PM ||
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We were told today, on the Beeb, not to worry as it's part of Muslim culture to vote for who their elders tell them to. It's simply a cultural difference.
I think therefore I am
sheesh..
Posted by: Howard UK ||
06/09/2004 11:01 Comments ||
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#2
Please tell me you're kidding, Howard. That's the up there on the list of the most insane things I've ever heard. I hate to say this, but if they're only going to vote for who they're told to . . . why give them the vote at all? They live in a democratic country, they like to talk about "freedom" (usually in the context of them not being allowed to impose their beliefs on others), but they obviously don't get it at all. Automatically voting for whoever the guy with a turban wrapped too tight tells you to is a mockery of democracy, and it degrades it for the rest of us. Maybe we should have an intelligence requirement, where if you don't exercise your own brain and free will, you don't get a vote because you've fallen below the intelligence line.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/09/2004 11:39 Comments ||
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#3
what wrong with voting for who youre told to? Chicago was a damned fine city back when people listened to their precinct captain.
#5
more like chicago for decades, from the 30's through the 70s. Machine run cities were often well run. Oh and there were GOP machines as well, notably in Pennsylvania and Indiana. But in any case, its NOT something particularly associated with muslim culture. Its a standard immigrant thing.
#6
Ah, but BigEd, in Chicago elections are entertainment. You know as well as I that in the 1960 elections there WERE NO NIXON VOTES in Chicago. The voting machines were set so that no matter whom you selected, once you pulled the lever the machine tallied a straight Democratic party line vote. Enough people went to jail in Illinois and Texas for vote fraud that (unlike Gore in Florida) Nixon had he contested the election could have actually become president. To his everlasting credit, he said that he would not put the country through that.
Excerpted from the daily press brief. Noting definite here but this is the first I have seen of this possibility.
QUESTION: Talk to you about South Korea. It is reported U.S. and South Korea Mutual Defense Treaty is to be changed and/or modified. What is your comment on that?
MR. ERELI: We have been in discussions with the Republic of Korea for some time on the future of the alliance, and this covers a wide range, a wide variety of aspects, to the alliance. Those discussions have been conducted with the Department of Defense and their South Korean counterpart, so Iâd refer you to the Department of Defense for details on the discussions.
However, in general terms, I think whatâs important to point out here is that in South Korea as well as a number of other countries around the world, we have been consulting with friends and allies about our global force posture, about where our troops and defense assets are, and where they should be in the future in order to respond to global threats.
Weâve made no final decisions as a result of these consultations, and very importantly, we are committed to maintaining, as far as the Korean Peninsula is concerned, our deterrent capability and our strong alliance with the Republic of Korea.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/09/2004 3:39:16 AM ||
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Damn, it's like somebody on RB said the other day tongue-in-cheek! We are redrawing the Pacific defense perimeter ala 1949! Tokyo-Manilla-Darwin, this time I'm for it.
Predicted and predictable after Madrid which now becomes a standard AQ tactic.
An alleged Egyptian bomb expert arrested in Milan this week was feared to be planning an attack on the Paris metro in the next three days, modelled on the one in which 191 people died in Madrid on March 11.
This actually seems more likely to me than the attack on NATO HQ...
According to one Italian media report last night, police seized him to avert a massacre before Sundayâs European elections. The Madrid bombings took place three days before Spainâs general election. A French interior ministry source said last night that Paris had been informed of the allegations, but played down the claim. "Searches carried out [in France] on the basis of information relayed by the investigators have not allowed a potential attack target to be identified," a French police source told the Reuters news agency. Sounds like it decodes to they didnât find the boomers.
Police in Milan arrested a man Italian officials now identify as Hamed Sayed Osman Rabei on Monday. The 33-year-old man, also known as Mohammed the Egyptian, is suspected of playing a leading role in the Madrid train bombings and is wanted by the Spanish judicial authorities. On Tuesday, Belgian police, acting on information from Italy, arrested 15 people they said were preparing an attack. An anti-terrorist prosecutor in Belgium said the attack was planned for a foreign country.
The Italian warrant issued for Mr Rabeiâs arrest shows that much of the evidence against him was gathered from telephone conversations intercepted by Italyâs anti-terrorist branch, the Digos. A Milan anti-terrorist prosecutor was reported yesterday to have provided the US authorities with transcripts of some of Mr Rabeiâs calls. Mr Rabei was said in the warrant to have spoken to an associate in Belgium and to have asked for information about "the city", which the investigators believe is Paris. He also allegedly inquired about the underground system, checks and inspections. At one point, the associate in Belgium, identified only as "Mounrad", was quoted as saying "everything is in place". The two men also discussed a third person, referred to as Mohammed, who was already in Paris and was said to be "ready for martyrdom". Other telephone references were said to show that the suspected terrorists were preparing a rehearsal of the attack using mobile telephones, as in the March 11 Madrid attack. They planned to use a programme downloaded from the internet that would allow the mobile phones to be activated simultaneously by an SMS text message. Mobile phones work underground in several of the largest Paris metro stations. In the Spanish bomb attacks, mobile phones were used as detonator timers. But they were activated by the phonesâ alarm mechanisms, and one was accidentally set to the wrong time. When it did go off, it failed to detonate the bomb to which it was attached, providing investigators with a clue that led, ultimately, to Mr Rabeiâs arrest. The SMS system outlined in the Italian arrest warrant would allegedly have got around that key weakness in the Madrid bombersâ plot.
The 27-page Italian arrest warrant also includes an extract from a transcribed conversation in which Mr Rabei allegedly boasted of knowing a method that allowed him to change his fingerprints. "They are never the same. Not even the American intelligence services will find me. So, you will see that today I have some fingerprints and tomorrow others," he is allegedly quoted as saying. Mr Rabei was arrested with his lover a second man, Yahia Payumi, 21, as they were apparently preparing to leave for a honeymoon in Belgium. Mr Payumi has said he is a Palestinian, but investigators believe he may be Egyptian. Both men are to be questioned by a judge in Milan today. They are accused of criminal association aimed at promoting terrorism.
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/09/2004 10:19:44 PM ||
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It's a sad day when the time comes for the French people too die for their Governments stupidity.
Posted by: Charles ||
06/09/2004 22:38 Comments ||
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#2
It's a sad day when the time comes for the French people too die for their Governments stupidity.
WWI, WWII, Algeria...
Sounds like that sad day has come pretty frequently in the last century.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/09/2004 22:45 Comments ||
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#3
Robert,
Here, here, well stated...ditto!
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 22:48 Comments ||
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#4
No, no, Chirac said history doesn't repeat itself. So Charles is right after all.
Posted by: Scott ||
06/09/2004 23:15 Comments ||
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#5
This from Swissinfo seems to confirm a second cell is still at large - "Reading the transcripts of the taped calls included in the investigation, it seems there was a second cell which was ready to take action on French territory."
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/09/2004 23:16 Comments ||
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#6
9/11, 3/11 and 6/11? Is there some significance to these dates in Islam?
Posted by: Tibor ||
06/09/2004 23:26 Comments ||
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#7
Good catch Tibor!
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/09/2004 23:28 Comments ||
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#8
Does 11 have some signifigance?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/09/2004 23:50 Comments ||
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#9
If it does happen, 12/11 will be a great day to shop for Christmas presents.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
06/09/2004 23:53 Comments ||
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Spanish police have arrested six people in northern Spain in connection with the sale of explosives used in March 11 train bombings in Madrid, an Interior Ministry spokesman says. The spokesman said police wiretaps had shown several of the six had spoken on the telephone in January and February with several of the Moroccan Islamist militants suspected of a role in the attacks that killed 191 people and injured 1,900. Two of those held on Wednesday are the wife and brother-in-law of former miner Jose Emilio Suarez Trashorras, who until the six arrests was the only Spanish-born suspect still in custody on suspicion of a role in the attacks. The judge in charge of the investigation has formally accused Suarez of 190 murders. His brother-in-law, Antonio Toro Castro, had already been detained and then released in the probe. The other four were also Spanish nationals. One of them was a former miner named Javier Gonzalez Diaz and known as "The Dynamiter," the Interior Ministry spokesman said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 1:44:55 PM ||
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At least 17 people have been hurt in an suspected bomb blast in a commercial district of the German city of Cologne. Police said thousands of nails were found at the scene of the blast, in which one person was critically injured and four people seriously wounded. The explosion occurred in or outside a three-storey building housing both flats and shops in Muelheim district. "We are assuming it was an attack," a police spokesman told Reuters news agency, adding no warning was given.
The blast hit the building - on a busy shopping street in the mainly Turkish district of Muelheim - at about 1600 local time. Police said the explosion damaged several shops on the street and glass littered the ground within a 50m radius. The shops closest to the blast were reportedly a pizzeria and hairdressers' salon. The wounded are being treated in hospital. They include one person critically wounded, and four people described as seriously wounded. Police have sealed off the area around the blast site and are reportedly sweeping the area for suspects. They say they have no clues to the identity or motive of the suspected attackers, but have not ruled out a terrorist attack.
Posted by: B ||
06/09/2004 13:41 Comments ||
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#5
At least 17 people have been hurt in an suspected bomb blast in a commercial district of the German city of Cologne. + thousands of nails = bomb
"Suspected" bomb blast? The picture with the article looks like a storefront area. Unless somebody dropped a propane tank and a bag of nails in a deepfryer by 'accident', I'm guessing it was a bomb.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/09/2004 14:01 Comments ||
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#6
Roger that.
Could be a lot of things. Neo-Nazis like nails, too. Since it's a street with many Turkish shops, they would be my first guess. Of course, could be a "settlement of scores" as well.
#7
TGA - glad to hear from you. Must mean you're OK. (Don't know if you live in Koeln or not)
I remember the Baader-Meinhof gang from when I lived in Frankfurt am Main; the modern terrorists are going to make the old guard look like a bunch of pussies by comparison, given half a chance.
Stay safe.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/09/2004 15:00 Comments ||
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#8
Don't worry Barbara (don't live near Cologne btw).
I remember Baader-Meinhof very well.
Somehow they managed to smuggle guns into the best guarded German prison and committed collective suicide with them.
#9
Update: It was a bomb (duh!), placed on a bicycle in the street, in front of Turkish stores.
Police "doesn't exclude" a fight between rivalling Turkish groups.
To avoid being branded as jumping on the bandwagon, Neonazis would probably have announced the blast or left a letter or something. Well, too early to tell.
You just gotta love German late night news. First is: German shop closing laws. Hmmm, well it's kinda related, right?
#10
TGA, some don't buy the "smuggled weapons" story, and feel the Baader-Meinhof members were murdered by guards.
Coincidentally, my Mom's family hosted a foreign exchange student from Germany back in the early 50's - a young girl named Gudrun Ensslin! Yes, my Mom was friends with a future terrorist when she was young, although Mom says the young Gudrun was very nice, and seemed completely normal... (but aren't they all, until they start killing people?)
#11
I think I give up for today... nobody understands German irony it seems.
But interesting story. When was that? Gudrun spent a year in Pennsylvania aged 18 (born 1940).
"Her father, Helmut Ensslin, was a pastor of the Evangelical Church in Germany, also known as EKD.
Gudrun was a stereotypical good girl, who did well at school and enjoyed reading the Bible."
#12
Scooter - Knowing what I do of the adult Gudrun, your mom is lucky to be alive. Yeah, she seemed completely normal, except for killing people and robbing banks.
Also, I don't care who killed Baader & Meinhof, as long as they're dead. I felt one of their bombs, when they blew V Corp headquarters in Frankfurt. Nice people.
But I'm willing to buy the smuggled weapons story, because supposedly Baader killed himself to "further the cause." Sounds like their twisted thinking, to use the term "thinking" loosely. Too bad we can't get today's terrorist leaders to think along the same lines. :-)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/09/2004 17:34 Comments ||
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#13
TGA - I got it
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/09/2004 17:45 Comments ||
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#14
TGA, ah German irony - I get it now! Ha ha. My Mom was also born 1940, they lived in Pittsburg (Pennsylvania). I'm not good with dates, but 1958 sounds about right. Mom says Gudrun was smart and friendly, and (of course) the whole family was horrified when they eventually learned what became of her!
What you state related to German troops combating terrorists in Afghanistan is correct. In the Taliban case the overwhelming majority of civilized states stepped to up to the plate and played ball as true allies.
On your other comment "You can't appease terrorists". Look no further than Saudi Arabia for incredible proof of not only appeasement, but fostering and funding via Arabian OPEC oil sales off the West. Such hypocrites!
Does the appeasement work? No! Recall England's PM Chamberlain and Hitler concerning pan-Euro-geostrategic issues of the Rhineland and Czechoslovakia.
Back to the Saudis; The corrupt House of Saud will fall like a deck of cards unless Washington stands guard at every crude oil well, depot & interconnecting pipelines to the Gulf. Such a mammoth security endeavour must not be placed on the shoulders non-Saudis, since the ruling Arabians created the malignant mess they currently find themselves stuck in, they, and they alone, must resolve it or sink in the sea of Saudi crude.
In terms of Spain, the many voters, not all, will wish Mr. Aznar was still at the helm when the Islamists strike again not only on the issue of Islamic terrorism, but the ill economic effects of state socialism soon to be felt by Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero's leftist government.
Babies are not born terrorists, but with the likes of terrorist gangs as Hamas, Hizballah and Iran's terrorist promoting Shi'ite dictatorship, they make sure before the age of two the jihadic indoctrination has already begun.
Ally, now is not a time of disunity among those of us which clearly discern the grave dangers which lie ahead. We can win this war against the barbaric enemy if united.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 22:42 Comments ||
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The United States has told Germany that it wants to replace its two army divisions in the country with fewer, lighter, more mobile troops, according to a report....The U.S. had no plans to abandon Europe, the official insisted. "It is not a retreat we are swapping some forces for others," he said....The two divisions in Germany are the 1st Armored and the 1st Infantry, with some 70,000 troops. They are both currently in Iraq. They would be returned to the United States under the Pentagon plan although it was unclear where....Feith stressed thereâd been no decision on U.S. troops in Germany. But planning was "very far along." The 5th Corps headquarters in Germany, which oversees nearly all U.S. army troops in Europe, would be overhauled but remain the headquarters.
Posted by: Rafael ||
06/09/2004 11:43:27 AM ||
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#3
The SPD and their coalition partners the leech-like Greens will have lots of explaining to do when our guys are gone, and they have to deal with full-blown repeated terrorist attacks on their soil. It should be interesting to watch.
#4
BigEd lets hope there are no terrorists attacks - germany is a friend and will be.. they were led astray by france but always stayed in the background of the fray....
anyone heard from TGA?? would love to hear his views on this..
Posted by: Dan ||
06/09/2004 12:00 Comments ||
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#5
Dan, you spoke to soon. Check Debka
http://www.debka.com
At least 16 injured, 4 seriously, in a bomb explosion on shopping street in Germany city of Cologne. Cause unknown
#6
WOW, imagine 70,000 troops 'buffering' our guys in Iraq,even if the baddy tried something stupid, the odds of him being detected or captured would increase 10 fold! I'd rather see our boys walking around with a toothpick in his mouth doing nothing in Iraq, than the same in Germany; hell, atleast the chance of killing 'shorty tuban' is good!
#7
damn - i guess i did speak too soon...all the asshats are doing are giving some backbone to europe... iran is a good example..
pesonally i do not want too see 70,000 more troops in iraq...we are stretched pretty thin - to the point i am sure the chicoms are considering their options in regards to taiwan....
the iraqi's can handle much more security than a year ago on thier own and we need to rest the troops for next years operations...ala iran - which is feeling the heat from europe who they banked being on the opposite side of the US.... yes folks things are def falling into place..
Posted by: Dan ||
06/09/2004 12:32 Comments ||
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#8
I like it! SK, and now Germany too! I like it. When whiney babies get big enough to bite the tit that feeds them, it's time to take them off it.
Posted by: B ||
06/09/2004 12:37 Comments ||
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#9
At long last Germany will be free of the cruel hand of American Occupation.
I hope they enjoy.
Posted by: Michael ||
06/09/2004 13:13 Comments ||
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#10
Dan: BigEd lets hope there are no terrorists attacks
At least 17 people have been hurt in an suspected bomb blast in a commercial district of the German city of Cologne
I am now going to put on a fake Caribbean accent call my self Sir BigEd, and start a 900 number and charge $9.95 for a three minute call.
Madame Cleo is in the slammer. I now have credentials, and can take over the niche. . .
#11
The two divisions in Germany are the 1st Armored and the 1st Infantry, with some 70,000 troops. They are both currently in Iraq. They would be returned to the United States under the Pentagon plan although it was unclear where...
#12
It is time to reduce the troops in Germany... but this stinks just a little bit of infantry deprivation in Iraq. I damn sure expect Germany will be honky dorry without us and will continue to allow the use of the basic infrastructrue.
#13
Well what can I say? If it were for me, you could stay as long as you like. But let's face it, U.S. troops in Germany do no longer have to protect us... there is no enemy to fight anymore. Actually German troops have been guarding U.S. military installations in Germany because troops are away in Iraq. So I guess there's enough trust on both sides.
Whether U.S. troops stay or don't is purely a matter of U.S. strategical decisions. Reasons to stay?
1. U.S. troops like it here, and they are well liked (Germans are most U.S. friendly NEAR U.S. installations, go figure). The "RaR factor" should not be underestimated, and many servicemen (and women) are married to Germans.
2. Germany is still in the center of Europe. And to have some troops rather close to France might not be such a bad idea.
3. Even if there are political differences Germany is not likely to restrict U.S. military action starting from German soil. That might not always be the case in Poland, Romania or Bulgaria. Political opinions can shift.
4. It's all here: Perfect airbases, hospitals, infrastructure. Sure, you can build all this in Eastern Europe, but just to be a 1000 miles closer to the presumed "action" isn't really worth the extra expenses. Romania and Bulgaria will join the EU in 2007, so prices will go up in the next decade.
5. I wouldn't mind having some U.S. troops in Eastern Europe. Russia won't attack us, but if hell frezes over they'd have a tougher time this way.
U.S. troops can't really protect us from terrorist attacks. Even if AQ stages a German 9/11 there is little U.S. troops could do. The work inside Germany would have to be done by police and I guess the Bundeswehr is strong enough to help. We won't see an AQ bataillon crossing the Rhine. It's a different fight.
What I would like to see is a more professional Bundeswehr, close cooperation with the U.S. military abroad to fight terrorism.
The "Fremde Heere Ost" do no longer exist. Other enemies do.
Will it hurt the German economy if U.S. troops leave. Only marginally. The local communities would certainly be affected, but please consider that in the Cold War we had up to 500000 troops here. Some major bases will stay anyway, Ramstein, Frankfurt Airbase for sure.
Btw it seems that Bush and Schröder got along quite well at the G8 summit. Oh, something you might find intreresting. Despite all that Kerry hype in the German press, the "usually well informed sources" still predict a Bush win in November and plan accordingly.
So do I.
And in 2006 the CDU/CSU opposition will win by a landslide. Both possible candidates, Angela Merkel and Edmund Stoiber, are very U.S. friendly and not exactly fond of France.
#16
Both possible candidates, Angela Merkel and Edmund Stoiber, are very U.S. friendly and not exactly fond of France.
That's going to be a tough one. Stoiber appears to me to have better overall credentials, but I like Merkel's background too. Either one is a sight better than Shroeder.
#17
Bring the troops home and deploy them along our border with Mexico and canada. We have to stop the flood of illegals and terrorists from coming across the border.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
06/09/2004 19:09 Comments ||
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#18
An exit strategy in Germany, Japan, and Korea first before Iraq. Looks like Korea is already moving. Should be first in, first out.
Posted by: Don ||
06/09/2004 19:17 Comments ||
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#19
So we can use the German/Korea model for a 'secure' withdrawl of troops? So anything short of say 50 years has to be called a success?
#20
Bring the troops home and deploy them along our border with Mexico and canada. We have to stop the flood of illegals and terrorists from coming across the border.
Unless there's Border Patrol "riders" along, there's a little thing called the Posse Comitatus Act (18 USC 1385).
Frankly, deploying troops might make for a fine show, but unless other, more concrete, actions are taken, it ain't nuthin' but window dressing.
The ex-army explosives expert said to be a key figure in the 11 March bomb attacks in Madrid told a friend in a wiretapped telephone conversation that he masterminded the attacks, Italian newspapers reported Wednesday. "The attack in Madrid was my project and those who died martyrs are my dearest friends," said Rabei Osman Sayed Ahmed on the tape, according to reports. Sayed Ahmed, 33, known as "Mohammed the Egyptian", was arrested in Milan together with a Palestinian in a Europe-wide police operation Tuesday. Fifteen other Islamic radicals were also arrested in Belgium, while allegedly preparing an attack on Nato. Sayed Ahmed was taped on 26 May by Italian police talking to his friend Yahia Mouad Mohammed Rajah.
It will make for enjoyable listening at his trial.
Authorities said he was planning more attacks in Europe when he was arrested. Bombs exploded almost simultaneously on four commuter trains in and around Madrid on 11 March, killing 192 people and injuring some 1,500 others. The attacks are believed to have been carried out by Islamic extremists linked to al-Qaeda. Several of those involved in the bombings blew themselves up in a suburban Madrid apartment on 3 April when surrounded by police. Sayed Ahmed told his friend that he was the mastermind of the Madrid attacks and added: "While I was not there at the time of the incident, the truth is that before the operation, on the fourth, I was in contact with them." "Don't even think about saying anything, I operate alone, they work as a team."
al-Qaeda SOP - outside expert builds the bombs, then skips town before they are delivered.
He added, "I wanted a big explosion, but I couldn't find the means. I had to study a lot for this project and I needed a lot of patience, I needed two and a half years. Don't even think about saying anything to anyone and don't talk about it with Jail, not by any means (of communication), not even by phone."
Ok, we won't tell anyone
"Just so you know, what I've told you no one in the world knows. All of my friends are dying, one after another, there are those who have sacrificed themselves in Afghanistan and I know many more people who are prepared." Sayed Ahmed was said to have revealed two more teams of "martyrs" were preparing for more attacks in Europe. "I'm telling you, there are two groups prepared for martyrdom. The first leaves on the 20th and the 25th of next month (June) for Iraq, by way of Syria. There are four who are ready for martyrdom. Don't say anything to anyone," he said. At another point in the taped recordings, Sayed Ahmed commented to his friend on "what they're doing to our brothers in Iraq," in reference to US troops. He said: "You see the prisons, the humiliation ....under these conditions isn't it better to die before being jailed?"
We'll give you a hand with that.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/09/2004 11:10:01 AM ||
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I had to study a lot for this project and I needed a lot of patience, I needed two and a half years.
So help me understand how this is a reaction to Spain's participation in Iraq? Two years ago, there was no Iraq war.
"All of my friends are dying, one after another, there are those who have sacrificed themselves in Afghanistan and I know many more people who are prepared."
But me, um, er, I have a hair appointment. Wish I could be there, but, well, uh.
"You see the prisons, the humiliation ....under these conditions isn't it better to die before being jailed?"
Well he won't get to die (not that he was volunteering, mind you) but he will see the prisons and hopefully, the humiliation.
Funny what they get humiliated about. Don'tcha think, though, they oughta be humiliated by the fact that they have no cultural, scientific, medical, philosophical, literature, etc. advancement to speak of for the past 1000 years?
#2
Nothing's more beautiful than incriminating yourself over a non-secure line. "Mastermind"? Yeah, right...
Posted by: Dar ||
06/09/2004 13:10 Comments ||
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#3
Man, what ever you do, don't answer the phone man, got that?
Posted by: Frank ||
06/09/2004 13:38 Comments ||
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#4
All of my friends are dying, one after another
More than happy to oblige.
In light of how consistently these "masterminds" sh!theads are tracked down via cell phone chips and other incredible blunders, we should all be grateful for the de-emphasis on technical education so prevalent in much of the Islamic world.
#7
More details emerging: ROME - An Italian prosecutor said Wednesday he had provided U.S. authorities with transcripts of phone calls between terror suspects, including one that reportedly refers to a woman ready to carry out a chemical attack in the United States. The two terror suspects were arrested Tuesday in Milan and include Rabie Osman Ahmed, an Egyptian believed to be behind the March 11 train bombings in Madrid, said Milan prosecutor Maurizio Romanelli.
In one of the intercepted phone conversations, Osman Ahmed refers to a woman ready to carry out a chemical attack in America, the ANSA news agency reported. When asked about the content of the transcripts, Romanelli pointed to news reports that mention the alleged chemical plot. He did not dispute the reports, but he said he would not comment further on the content of the wiretaps. The wiretaps refer to "small groups ready to carry out suicide attacks," he said. In most cases, the likely location of the attacks was Iraq, he said. The prosecutor gave no further details.
This women, perhaps? Aafia Siddiqui, 32, a former Houston resident and a neurological sciences expert, is the subject of a worldwide dragnet, wanted by the FBI as a terrorist recruited by al-Qaida to help attack the United States this summer. U.S. authorities have not charged her, but believe Aafia Siddiqui is a "fixer," someone who moves money to provide logistical support for terror activities, authorities said. The FBI fears she may have been helping Adnan El Shukrijumah, 27, a Saudi man who Attorney General John Ashcroft said could be a "future facilitator of terrorist acts" for al-Qaida. The FBI became interested in Aafia Siddiqui after reputed 9/11 mastermind Kahlid Shaikh Mohammed, known to anti-terrorists as KSM, dropped her name during an interrogation in March 2003 by the CIA. Newsweek magazine reported in June 2003 that U.S. officials also believed Aafia Siddiqui rented a post office box to help Majid Khan establish U.S. identity. Khan, Newsweek reported, was named in KSM interrogation documents as a willing saboteur who had planned to blow up gasoline storage tanks at service stations in the United States.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/09/2004 15:28 Comments ||
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A group of suspected Islamic militants arrested in Italy and Belgium may have been planning an attack on NATO headquarters or the European Parliament, Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera said on Wednesday. Quoting Italian investigators, Corriere said a suspected planner of the Madrid bombings in March -- among those arrested on Tuesday -- had intended to travel from Italy to Belgium possibly to take part in an attack on a "symbolic" target. Rabei Osman Sayed Ahmed, known as "Mohamed the Egyptian," was seized on Tuesday with a fellow suspect in Milan, and Belgian police, acting on information from Italy, arrested 15 people they said had been gearing up for an attack. Italian Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu said on Tuesday that Ahmed was part of a "dangerous group of terrorists close to al Qaeda" which had been planning attacks. Corriere said Italian investigators believed the symbolic target might have been the headquarters of NATO in Brussels or the European Parliament, which has its main building in Strasbourg, France, and offices in Brussels. Investigators in Milan and Brussels were not available for comment.
A spokesman for the U.S.-dominated NATO alliance declined to comment on the Corriere report, but noted that the security level at the low-rise complex on the edge of Brussels had been at a relatively low Alpha+ for weeks and still was. "The safety of this headquarters is ensured by the Belgian authorities, not by NATO," he said. "If they have any information that there is a higher risk then they would warn NATO and NATO security measures would be upgraded appropriately." The newspaper quoted Belgian prosecutor Daniel Bernard as saying he believed the suspects arrested in Belgium were probably planning an attack outside the country. Corriere published excerpts from telephone conversations intercepted by police in which Ahmed purportedly urged others to carry out suicide attacks and claimed responsibility for organizing the Madrid train bombings which killed 191 people. "We young people must be the first ones to sacrifice ourselves ... because God puts us all to the test, he tires us out, he tests the faith of us all," Ahmed was quoted as telling the man arrested with him in Milan on Tuesday. "There is only one solution, to join al Qaeda," he was quoted as saying. In another phrase, Ahmed was reported to have said: "The attack in Madrid was a project of mine and those who died were my most dear friends." In the phone tap excepts published in Corriere, Ahmen also referred to militants leaving for Iraq for suicide attacks.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:10:25 AM ||
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Another possible target making the rounds is France: A group of suspected Islamic militants arrested in Italy and Belgium appeared to have been planning a suicide attack in Paris, according to an Italian detention warrant seen by Reuters on Wednesday. The 27-page warrant includes transcribed telephone conversations in which the suspects discussed the Paris metro system, security arrangements and a "martyr" referred to as Mohammed.
Must be another "Mohamed", this one is too important to blow himself up.
The warrant, used to detain Ahmed and the other suspect in Milan, quotes members of the group as saying they planned a rehearsal of an attack in Paris using SMS mobile phone technology. The Milan prosecutor's office said the method was similar to that used in the Madrid bombings.
Why not, it worked before. If they had boomed a Paris subway underground, death toll would have been much higher.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/09/2004 14:31 Comments ||
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#2
Antisemite--
You better start working on your little comment about how it's all Israel's fault now.
Ahmed is a former Egyptian army explosives expert who gave courses at al-Qaâeda training camps in Afghanistan, judicial authorities alleged. He is believed to have helped to recruit the Madrid bombing team at mosques in Spain. The Italians had been following him for three months, using electronic eavesdropping equipment. Maurizio Romanelli, the investigating magistrate, said the intercepted conversations contained "very significant references" to the Madrid attacks. He said Ahmed was seized with an unidentified man, who said he was a Palestinian. Prosecutors had feared they might be about to leave the country.
An Italian source said wiretapped conversations between the two included the repeated words: "Letâs go. We are ready for martyrdom." Ahmed is also heard talking about the bomb cell that committed suicide in a Madrid apartment rather than surrender to police. "Those in Spain are my friends but I am sad because I cannot go to heaven with them," he said. Mr Romanelli told a news conference: "They were highly mobile and we could not afford to wait." He said any attack would probably have been outside Italy. Both Ahmed and the other man were accused of conspiracy to commit a terrorist act.
Javier Solana, the European Union security chief, said the joint operations showed what Europe could achieve if all countries pooled police and intelligence resources. At a meeting of EU interior ministers yesterday, he won broad backing for plans to strengthen his intelligence nerve-centre in Brussels. EU officials insisted that it would not be a "Euro-CIA". Ironically, Italy was one of the countries "named and shamed" yesterday by EU ministers for failing to implement a number of anti-terrorism and criminal justice measures agreed after the September 11 attacks. The proposals include an EU-wide arrest warrant. It is widely suspected that Italyâs prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, has been dragging his feet on the arrest warrant because he is under investigation in Spain for financial irregularities. The 32 offences covered by the EU-wide warrant include fraud, as well as such vague offences as xenophobia. The Spanish-Italian teamwork this week appears to show that the EU warrant may be less crucial to the fight against terrorism than is often claimed by Brussels. The worst offender on yesterdayâs shame list was Greece, which has failed to implement all five of the agreed counter-terrorism measures.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:59:43 AM ||
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Two suspects seized in anti-terrorist raids in Italy have links to the Finsbury Park mosque.
Tap, tap, nope
Investigators are questioning the men who are believed to have worshipped at the north London mosque made notorious by radical cleric Abu Hamza. The men were detained in a raid targeting suspected al Qaeda militants across Europe. One is Rabei Osman Ahmed, 33, known as Mohammed the Egyptian, who is believed to have masterminded the Madrid bombings. Police believe Ahmed is an explosives expert who may have made the train bombs which killed 191 people and injured up to 2,000. He is said to have lived in Spain and had close ties to the suspected ringleader, Tunisian Serhane Fakhet. Ahmed was arrested in his Milan flat with 21-year-old Palestinian Yahia Payumi. Sources close to the investigation said: "We believe they had links to t he Finsbury Park mosque and other extremists who used the building."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:15:07 AM ||
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Mohammed the Egyptian This could refer to 80% of all males in Egypt. How original.
A Turkish court has ordered the release of four prominent Kurdish activists, including award-winning ex-MP Leyla Zana, pending an appeal. The state prosecutor called earlier this week for their jail sentences - imposed in 1994 on charges of links to illegal rebel groups - to be quashed. Their trials had been widely condemned by human rights groups. Correspondents say Turkey's move will please the EU, which considers the activists prisoners of conscience.
Don't worry, the EU will come up with some other reson to keep Turkey out.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/09/2004 8:42:47 AM ||
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If the EU constitution (or atleast another treaty dealing with many of the same problems) doesn't get signed, EU won't be ready to take in even Bulgaria and Romania, let alone Turkey. It was barely ready to take in the 10 countries that already became members -- and I'm already almost-regretting *that*.
So, there won't be a need to come up with a *fictional* reason not to let Turkey be enslaved by our corporatist-fascist superpower-wannabe that wants to place the whole of Europe's peoples under our collectivist beaurocrat's boot, etc. Real reasons exist. :-)
#2
Moreover, both EU and Turkey will probably need to wait for a shift in government in Cyprus -- Tassos Papadopoulos is a dishonest chauvinist who will squash every chance of reunification for his own island and veto Turkey's entry in the Union.
So no chance for Turkey to enter while Papadopoulos is in charge of Cyprus, unfortunately.
Excerpted from State Department Daily Briefing during which a Greek reporter seems to put forth his own agenda in a bizarre but entertaining way. If his pejorative-laced questioning is representative of Greeks poplar opinion, it makes me nervous. He sounds as if he would be well satisfied if the Olympics are a disaster. He is Lambros Papantoniou of the Elettheros Typos Greek daily
QUESTION: Yes, on Greece. The over-qualified Mayor of Athens, Dora Bakoyianni, yesterday had a meeting here at the State Department with the Deputy Secretary Richard Armitage. May we have a readout on the record for this meeting (inaudible) for the Olympic Games in Greece? Sheâs in charge is the (inaudible) of the city.
MR. ERELI: Deputy Secretary Armitage did meet yesterday with the Mayor of Athens. They discussed a number of bilateral issues, including preparations for the Olympic Games in Athens. We expressed our support for the efforts that Greece is undertaking and reiterated our offer to provide whatever assistance or other kinds of support that might be helpful to Greece in its efforts as host of the Olympic Games. I think they had a good meeting and, as you know, the Mayor made some remarks upon leaving the building.
QUESTION: So you said you feel it was a good meeting. Then Mayor -- Madame Mayor Dora Bakoyianni, daughter former Prime Minister of Greece, Constantine Mitsotakis, is doing a splendid job for the Olympics Games, as I understand; correct?
MR. ERELI: Those are your words, Mr. Lambros.
QUESTION: According to your statement, you said it was a good meeting. It seems to me you have qualified, et cetera*. Thatâs why --
MR. ERELI: Iâll just leave it at what I said and refer you to the statement.
QUESTION: Ambassador to Greece Tom Miller is coming -- is in Washington, D.C., again less than a month. May we know the reason for those frequent visits back and forth to the American capital from Athens?
MR. ERELI: I donât know the reason for his latest visit. As you know, ambassadors travel frequently to and from capitals, depending on what events are going on, what the presence may be required for. I wouldnât read anything into the visit.
QUESTION: And today, consultations started at the UN on the Annan report about the presence of the UN peace corps in Cyprus, but in yesterdayâs consultation on a technical level, the U.S. and British delegations were pushing behind the scenes that this UN force should be terminated within three months. And I was wondering why.
MR. ERELI: Iâm sorry. I have not heard that.
QUESTION: You have not, sir. But can you take this question because itâs very --
MR. ERELI: Iâll take the question.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/09/2004 3:54:34 AM ||
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The over-qualified Mayor of Athens, Dora Bakoyianni,
#2
I'm not sure where the reporter was coming from. He may have blundered and meant "overqualified" as a compliment. Is the text of the question a translation or was the reporter speaking in English?
But frankly I do feel that Dora Bakoyianni is being wasted in being a mere mayor, when I'd have much preferred her to be the foreign affairs minister, or even the prime minister instead of Karamanlis. I'd have almost certainly voted for ND had it been she that'd be leading it rather than him -- and had Karamanlis lost the election and been forced from the leadership of his own party it would probably be indeed her that'd be given the reins of its leadership. She is from the pro-Western, pro-democratic, pro-freedoms, liberal-right wing of her party.
Karamanlis on the other hand is IMO from the wing I'd call "amoral crooks", cozying up to whomever suits him, from the most conservative right to the most Stalinist left, not having any ideology other than what benefits him personally the most.
#3
Aris, look at the statement: QUESTION: So you said you feel it was a good meeting. Then Mayor -- Madame Mayor Dora Bakoyianni, daughter former Prime Minister of Greece, Constantine Mitsotakis, is doing a splendid job for the Olympics Games, as I understand; correct?
He seems to be hunting something to match his own adgenda or that of his paper. He has been covering the State Department for several years as I search his last name and it linked to a State Departmeent Q&A from 2002.
Do you know anything about Lambros Papantoniou or the Elettheros Typos Greek daily.
Maybe he just smells the US pulling out of the Olympics - which I don't see happening.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/09/2004 14:08 Comments ||
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#4
I don't know anything about Papantoniou, but Eleftheros Typos is believed to belong politically to ND, the ruling party which Bakoyanni also belongs to. Have never read it myself.
#5
Maybe he just smells the US pulling out of the Olympics - which I don't see happening.
No need for the U.S. to officially pull out, but officials might want to issue a warning that given the current climate, attendees go at their own risk. We can't protect all our citizens everywhere.
#6
Aris, thank you. BTW I am pretty sure that the US is coming because all the track athletes are embroiled in a doping scandal. America only bothers to watch track when the Olympics roll around.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/09/2004 14:29 Comments ||
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In a coordinated strike across Europe, police arrested 17 suspected Islamic militants, including an alleged mastermind of the Madrid train bombings who authorities say was planning further attacks, officials said Tuesday. Fifteen people, mostly Palestinian, Jordanian, Moroccan and Egyptian nationals, were arrested in raids on about 10 locations in the Belgian cities of Brussels and Antwerp, said Daniel Bernard, Belgian federal prosecutor. Italian police picked up two suspects, including a 33-year-old Egyptian described as the ringleader who allegedly helped plan the March 11 attacks in Madrid that killed 191 people. The suspect, identified as Rabei Osman Ahmed â also known as "Mohammed the Egyptian" â was arrested Monday night near his apartment in the northern outskirts of Milan in an operation that involved dozens of police. The operation "confirms the welding that took place between holy war groups of various geographical origins," said Carlo De Stefano of the Milan police. These groups "are united not only by a single project of attack on the West and on the symbols representing it, but also by the actual sharing of resources and operational experiences."
Wonder if those two Spanish bikini boombelt protesters from last year have noticed this?
Also arrested in Milan was Osman Ahmedâs landlord and roommate, identified as 21-year old Palestinian Yahia Payumi. They are both accused of association for international terrorism, a charge introduced in Italy after the Sept. 11 attacks Italyâs Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu described Osman Ahmed as a person of "notable ideological and operational stature." He was "probably among the principal authors of the Madrid massacre and was preparing other attacks," Pisanu said.
Now he's warming up the choir.
Pisanu did not elaborate. However, prosecutors in Milan and Brussels said a planned attack was being directed from Italy and was to be carried out by the Belgian cell. They gave no indication of possible targets, though they ruled out their countries. In Spain, Osman Ahmed has been a suspect for the Madrid bombings since April 4. He had been identified by people living near a decrepit rural cottage where the bombs used in the attack were assembled, Spanish court officials said. Fingerprints of several key suspects were found in the cottage. He was in Spain in 2003, but left months before the March 11 attacks, which were planted on four commuter trains and also injured more than 2,000 people. Police said he had close ties with the accused ringleader of the attacks, a Tunisian named Serhane Ben Abdelmajid Fakhet, according to Spanish radio station Cadena Ser. The Spanish government says Fakhet was among seven suspects who blew themselves up April 3 as police tried to storm their apartment outside Madrid.
The Italian news agency AGI reported that Osman Ahmed told his roommate, in conversations that were tape recorded, that he was a mastermind of the Madrid train bombings. Spanish police confirmed that Italian colleagues had provided them with transcripts of the conversations. No weapons or explosives were found during the raids, officials said, but documents praising holy war were seized, along with books and videotapes. The suspected terroristsâ link to al-Qaeda, Osama bin Ladenâs network, was not clear. Pisanu said the arrests in Italy "blocked a dangerous terrorist group gravitating around al-Qaeda." Officials in Brussels said that while there was insufficient evidence that the link existed, the possibility could not be ruled out. According to analysts, the operation in Italy confirms the country serves as logistical support for terror operations that are carried out elsewhere. An intelligence document said this year that Italy had become a departure point for suicide attackers against U.S.-led forces in Iraq. Arrests in recent years indicated suspected terrorists passing through Italy on their way to other countries were provided with money, fake documents and other support.
Follows the al Q pattern of decentralized control, tightly-knit small groups, and using resources from cells in multiple countries.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
Color me cynical,but how many will be released in next few months?We've been here before-bunch of "terrorists" arrested w/big headlines,then 6 months later are all ordered released by various judges.
Posted by: Stephen ||
06/09/2004 2:31 Comments ||
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#2
Just popping in to say that I appreciate Dan's new term: "Osamanauts". Sums it all up so elegantly.
Two U.S. defense contractors were accused in a class-action suit on Wednesday of conspiring with U.S. officials to torture and abuse prisoners in Iraq. The suit, filed in San Diego, alleged San-Diego based Titan Corp. and CACI International of Arlington, Virginia, engaged in "heinous and illegal acts" to show they could get intelligence from detainees, and thereby obtain more government contracts. Employees from both firms, which provided interrogation and translation services in Iraq, were named in a report on Iraqi prison abuse by U.S. Army investigator Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba...The two companies are accused of violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, an anti-conspiracy law originally enacted to target organized crime...The lawsuit charged that Stephen Stefanowicz and John Israel of CACI Inc. and [Adel]Nahkla "directed and participated in illegal conduct" at the Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad... The lawsuit also alleged CACI and Titan created a joint enterprise with a third party that became known as "Team Titan" which was hired by the United States to provide interrogation services in Iraq...
Posted by: rex ||
06/09/2004 8:37:28 PM ||
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#1
This is insane.
Since when does a private group get to file a claim in the area of national defense/security?
If this suit gets passed a first motion hearing, do I get to file a suit against this 'Center for Constitutional Rights for endangering national security? Could they survive a class action suit of that kind?
#2
This question came up before regarding charges against "civilian" contractors employed in Iraq interrogating prisoners.Last I heard the Justice Dept. was reviewing it.Now this.
Posted by: B ||
06/09/2004 23:43 Comments ||
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#4
In a class-action suit, shouldn't the class have lived in the jurisdiction of the court? Or are the lawyers (no doubt some insane lefty group) claiming US courts have jurisdiction EVERYWHERE?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/09/2004 23:53 Comments ||
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In the next war, let's have their lawyers line up against our lawyers. It'll last for years, accomplish nothing, keep them busy enough to stay out of our lives, and nobody will care who wins or loses. Sorry, cingold.
An Italian prosecutor said Wednesday he had provided U.S. authorities with transcripts of phone calls between terror suspects, including one that reportedly refers to a woman ready to carry out a chemical attack in the United States.
The two terror suspects were arrested Tuesday in Milan and include Rabie Osman Ahmed, an Egyptian believed to be behind the March 11 train bombings in Madrid, said Milan prosecutor Maurizio Romanelli.
In one of the intercepted phone conversations, Osman Ahmed refers to a woman ready to carry out a chemical attack in America, the ANSA news agency reported.
When asked about the content of the transcripts, Romanelli pointed to news reports that mention the alleged chemical plot. He did not dispute the reports, but he said he would not comment further on the content of the wiretaps.
The wiretaps refer to "small groups ready to carry out suicide attacks," he said. In most cases, the likely location of the attacks was Iraq, he said. The prosecutor gave no further details.
Police arrested Osman Ahmed in Milan on Monday along with the man he was lodging with, a Palestinian identified as Yahia Payumi.
The AGI news agency reported Wednesday that the suspects may have been planning an attack on the Paris subway system. Osman Ahmed was recorded asking one of those arrested in Belgium about the Paris Metro and security there, AGI said, citing police sources. Authorities were not immediately available to confirm the report.
Asked about a report in Milan daily Corriere della Sera that the suspects were planning an attack against a NATO base in Belgium, Romanelli said investigators had no information on specific targets.
Isabelle van Heers, spokeswoman for the federal prosecutorâs office in Brussels, said Wednesday that authorities there had "no information which would suggest a target in Belgium."
Viviana Bossi, defense lawyer for the two suspects, said Wednesday that her clients are unclear of the exact charges against them. "They deny they are terrorists," she said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 3:40:46 PM ||
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A plane passenger slapped a federal air marshal after refusing to sit down and ignoring instructions to end her cellular phone call, which she said would have been "rude," prosecutors said Tuesday. Lilia Belkova has been jailed since being charged with assaulting a federal officer and interfering with a flight crew last Wednesday as a US Airways flight prepared to take off from Miami to Philadelphia.
It's also rude to slap a fed, not to mention stupid.
A bail hearing was set for Thursday. It was unclear late Tuesday if Belkova, 38, had yet been assigned an attorney. According to prosecutors, Belkova refused flight attendants' instructions to turn off her cell phone as Flight 26 taxied for takeoff, saying: "It is rude to hang up on people. I don't have to turn my phone off."
Wrong answer
"I've lost three boyfriends that way. Besides, I'm a Princess! I don't have to listen to you!"
After ignoring more flight crew instructions, one of two air marshals ordered Belkova to be seated and put a hand on her shoulder to show her where to sit. Belkova reached back and slapped the marshal across the face, causing "minor swelling," according to court papers. She was handcuffed and taken off the plane.
No doubt to the cheers of the other passengers.
Air marshall deserves a pat on the back for his restraint.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/09/2004 11:23:09 AM ||
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#1
Obviously a graguate from the "Zsa-Zsa Gabor School of Constabulatory Relations"
#2
what a twit - i guess she is special since the rest of us (for the most part) follow the instructions. not too mentioned the twit caused the marshall to be id...
Posted by: Dan ||
06/09/2004 12:10 Comments ||
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#3
Nice job by the Marshal, the most vunerable time for a plane is near takeoff and landings. I can see how terrorists could use a lead signal from a cell phone to plot or triangulate a hit on the plane.
#8
hey, german "alley". I want to take up something that you lied and slandered about last week; namly this: NEVER, I repeat NEVER, in the history OF THIS WORLD, were prisoners of war treated better than germen prisoners of war during World
War II. IN THE HISTORY OF THIS WORLD. You obviously haven't asked any of them, have you? Its called the Christian ethic of the golden rule. Have you heard that one? Hmmm, also it escapes you that the German legacy of that war, on the part of germans, is 1) the deliberate attacking of civilians in the form of mass murdering bombings of cities, such as Coventry, London, etc. 2) summary execution of unarmed civilians. #3) summary executions of unarmed civilians for "suspected collaboration", such as islamonazis do now. The japanese follwed suit.
Where was your precious Geneva convention then? You showed that a people could abandon the mutual humanitarian benefit derived from compliance with the Geneva accords. The care for those mutual benefits was, or is, the incentive for compliance with Geneva. You guys broke all the rules first to achieve "total war" and the murder of all who did not submit to NaziEuropean Slavery. Sounds like Islam, naturlich! Islamic terrorism is the Western exported foreign legacy to a people otherwise too small minded to ever think of it on their own. Vielen Dank, for all the false Piety!
So just stay your lilly-white, aryan ass off this discussion, till you can account for yourself, instead of indicting others; yet another Christian ethic, absent from your Psyche
#14
Like the sign says, Madam Moose: "Civil, well reasoned discourse". If Fred were running Slash you'd find yourself modded down in to the basement with a long climb back up.
Speaking of Slash and Slashdot, I came across this useful guide to trolling phenomena. Think of it as Schopenhauer's Die Kunst, Recht zu behalten (The Art Of Controversy) for the blog age. See, there was a German angle to this. Oh, and welcome back TGA, Don't mind Miss Moose.
#18
TGA - I don't know what you said either, but I doubt it merited her post. Thanks for being one of the best posters here on Rantburg.
Annie Moose - Please try to play nice here. TGA isn't one of the trolls, far from it. Neither is Aris (although I rarely if ever agree with anything he says), and occasionally even Murat (is he still alive?) says something worthwhile. Stick around a little bit and get to know the regulars before you light into someone....especially someone as respected around here as TGA.
#19
Yeah, Murat's still around. Posted an article couple days back. Aris comes around, even after swearing off coming here.
Annie Moose, you may probably feel being piled upon, but we here at Rantburg really value our foreign commentators who are HONEST patriots. TGA is simply one of the best, period. Top flight. The way he graciously overlooked your comment, resting on his reputation with everyone else, shows he's got more class in his little pinky finger than everyone in Belgium and Paris.
From Policy Review, an article by Jon B. Alterman is director of the Middle East program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
.... It is not to dispute the desirability of democratization and reform in the Arab world to point out that the U.S. government is going about it the wrong way. The U.S. strategy, as it has been executed, is based on building out from a core of like-minded liberal reformers in the Arab world. In many ways, it is an obvious way to start. As a group, such reformers are intelligent, congenial, well-educated, and English-speaking. Americans are comfortable with them, and they are comfortable with Americans. But if we are honest with ourselves, we need to recognize that, as a group, such liberals are increasingly aging, increasingly isolated, and diminishing in number. These liberals are losing a battle for the hearts and minds of their countries, and populations are increasingly driven toward younger and more disaffected personalities.
Americaâs problems do not stop there, however. The United States faces a paradox. Liberal reformers in much of the Arab world are already seen as clients of foreign powers and as collaborators in a Western effort to weaken and dominate the Arab world. Focusing attention and resources on these reformers runs the risk of isolating them still further, driving a deeper wedge between them and the societies we (and they) seek to affect. In such an event, U.S. efforts are not only ineffectual; they are counterproductive. U.S. efforts to promote political openness and change in the Arab world would be far more effective if they stopped trying to coax the disparate sparks of comfortable liberal thought into a flame and instead concentrated on two targets: regional governments and mass publics. ....
Elites play many roles, but one of the most important for the purposes of the present discussion is their role of mediation. Elites often serve as a lubricant between foreign and domestic systems, using commonalities in travel, education, and language to bridge national divisions. .... Early twentieth-century Levantine elites were a worldly bunch, often multilingual and tolerant if often also a bit corrupt. .... But as we know, in the Middle East many of the stories of the elites ended badly. Tales of self-indulgence and profligate spending on their part only sharpened dismay at the Arab worldâs continued subjugation to European powers. .... When nationalist revolutions swept the Arab world in the 1950s, those revolutions were a repudiation of that weakness. Elites were tossed out as foreign fops, and new indigenous elites ... set about defining a new and âtruly authenticâ form of Arabism.
Whereas the old elites transcended the local through their travel and knowledge of foreign languages, newly emergent elites participate in a global culture .... The collaborative role that traditional elites have played is less mysterious, and the interests of foreign powers are more obvious to local audiences. The rise of an increasingly independent popular culture has an important effect on our discussion. Elites have lost much of the agenda-setting role they enjoyed in years past. What matters most in attracting an audience now is having a message, not merely having an outlet. Stolid state-run broadcasters have seen their audiences desert them, and they have had to change what they do. Audiences now control what they pay attention to, not information bureaucrats. ....
Many heirs to the liberal elite tradition in the Arab world live and work in Washington, dc. They often fill posts in the World Bank and other international institutions, work for the U.S. government, or labor in academia. They despair of the misdirection of the Arab world, and they speak movingly of the need for change. We notice their accents when they speak English, and we hail them as authentic voices for change in the Middle East. But what Washington doesnât hear is that many of these people have accents when they speak Arabic as well. Their speech marks them as Arabs who have left ....
Three additional points are in order. The first is to make clear that not all Arab liberals come from elite backgrounds. A good number â although probably a minority still â come from modest backgrounds. But the fact remains that support for liberal ideals as they are promoted and articulated in the West remains almost entirely an elite province, whether that of those born into elites or those who have come to pass into such ranks. What we often refer to as âlike-minded individualsâ form a distinctive group, and a decidedly elitist one.
The second point is that as old elites are pushed aside, new elites are emerging. Such elites come from religious backgrounds, the media, the military, or some combination. What is important to note here is that the new elites tend to come from sectors of their societies that are often illiberal, while old liberal elites are increasingly marginalized.
The last point has to do with the remarkable passivity of many Arab liberals, who either throw up their hands or hope that the U.S. will deliver their countries to them. Conservative groups conduct an active, creative, and impressive array of activities and services that affect peoplesâ daily lives: providing care to the sick, food to the hungry, and spouses to the unmarried. They seek leadership positions in professional organizations and civic groups. All too often, Arab liberalsâ activity ends when they deliver copy to their editors. ....
What is happening in the Arab world today smacks a bit of what the sociologist William Julius Wilson described as happening in black neighborhoods in Chicago in the 1960s and 1970s. Whereas segregation had created all-black communities that had both rich and poor, desegregation created black communities that were uniformly poor and had far higher incidences of violence and crime than had obtained heretofore. In the Arab world, liberal elites cluster ever more closely around Western embassies in capital cities and work in international institutions while the bulk of the Arab world grows more angry, more desperate, and more estranged from those liberal elites with whom Western governments deal most often.
.... to be effective, efforts must be concentrated in three areas. The first is on the government-to-government level. As countless U.S. government officials have recognized, the U.S. government cannot go on doing what it has been doing, relegating reform issues to the bottom of a long list of agenda items for bilateral discussions. ....
The second is that the U.S. government needs to push consistently and aggressively for greater freedom of association in the Middle East, even for those whose views it finds despicable. .... Some may say things the U.S. government doesnât agree with on issues relating to women, Israel, or any of a number of other issues. The U.S. government needs to abandon the idea that cooperation with an individual or group means embracing their every belief. ....
A third area of activity is coordinating more with other countries and groups of countries, particularly the European Union. .... The EU doesnât carry the stigma in the Middle East that U.S. policy does, making it a less threatening actor on the domestic stages of the region. Equally important, however, coordinated pressure and incentives stand a far better change of working than competing ones, diminishing the possibility that targeted countries would seek to play the United States and the European Union off against each other and increasing the likely efficacy of outside efforts.
What should one do with Arab liberals in all of this? None of this is to argue that the U.S. government should abandon them or cast them off. They continue to play valuable roles in our society and in their countries of origin. But Americans need to recognize that such liberals are insufficient catalysts for the change that all agree is necessary. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/09/2004 8:49:18 AM ||
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From Policy Review, an article by Tamara Cofman Wittes is a research fellow in the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution.
.... Americaâs past attempts to promote democracy in the Arab world were beset by two problems that many observers perceived as insurmountable. The first is encapsulated in the 1991 victory of radical Islamist parties in Algeriaâs first free parliamentary elections and the resulting cutoff of the democratization process by the Algerian military. The United States, like most Western governments, supported the military coup as preferable to the likely electoral outcome. The âAlgeria problemâ â defined most pithily by veteran diplomat Edward Djerejian as âone man, one vote, one timeâ â has crystallized as the nightmare vision for American policymakers of what democracy might bring to the Arab world: legitimately elected Islamist governments that are anti-American, and ultimately anti-democratic, in orientation.
American efforts to promote free politics in Arab states have also traditionally fallen prey to a problem of competing interests. Pressing for democratic transformation in rogue states like Libya or Syria is easy enough; there is little to lose by trying. But the Middle East is full of regimes with which America has worked closely for years and whose cooperation it desires on a variety of security and economic issues, notably including the war on terrorism. Because of this, the U.S. government has typically subordinated its concerns about governance and human rights to other core issues like Cold War loyalties and the Arab-Israeli peace process. ....
To avoid the risks of Islamist victory and the costs of prioritizing democracy over other more immediate goals, the U.S. governmentâs past reform efforts in the Arab world have generally been small, undertaken in full consultation with the targeted governments, and have emphasized technical assistance to government institutions rather than support for non-governmental social groups. ....
As it stands today, many Arab reformers donât believe the Bush administrationâs fine words about reversing decades of American support for Arab dictators. Without proving the strength of our commitment to act as a force for positive change in the Middle East, we will not win the trust of those in whose hands we envision the Arab future to lie: the regionâs nascent liberal activists. At this point, one can speak of only an embryonic liberal movement in the Arab world, but that movement does exist. Some Arab liberal activists are lawyers, professors, and journalists challenging the de facto political rules by demanding enforcement of the rules as stated in their postcolonial constitutions. Others are parliamentarians demanding oversight of executive policy. Some are cabinet ministers challenging tribal leaders and other cornerstones of the ruling elite to recognize that future challenges demand significant change. ....
The United States must press Arab regimes to reform their politics, not just their political processes. The United States should press a consistent message in the region: Controlled âliberalizationâ that creates quasi-democratic institutions with no power is not democratization. Elections are important, of course, but as Algeria taught us, they are not the primary need. Even more basic are the protections that enable a variety of citizens and groups to speak and organize and operate effectively in politics: freedom of the press, freedom of association, the right to peaceably assemble, and the legalization of political parties and advocacy groups. Some or all of these are absent in most Arab states.
Forcing governments to withdraw their control over the public square and give power to participatory institutions is necessary if non-Islamist political forces are to organize, formulate agendas, and press their case against the state in competition with the Islamists. .... A successful democratization strategy involves challenging autocratic regimes not only from above, through diplomatic pressure, but also from below, through the work of civil society activists. ....
We should not ask or expect to be embraced as saviors by Arab liberals ... many liberals still vehemently disagree with U.S. policies in Iraq, Israel, and the war on terrorism. They voice resentment of Americaâs overweening influence in their region and will continue to do so. But we should support them anyway. Enabling their success while not claiming it as our own is the most important thing we can do now to help liberals gain credibility in their own societies and to repair our credibility with them.
In the final analysis, the sincerity of Americaâs intentions can only be demonstrated over time, through a credible pro-democracy strategy that is honest about the difficult choices it requires both from us and from our erstwhile Arab allies and that invests Americaâs considerable resources in making those choices correctly. If America tries to hedge its bets against Islamists by acquiescing in the regimesâ attempt to forestall their peoplesâ inevitable and just demands, it will produce only backsliding and the added bitterness of promises betrayed. A sustainable and successful policy is robust support of the emerging Arab liberals and the alternative future they represent.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/09/2004 8:21:28 AM ||
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The U.N. Security Council voted 15-0 on Tuesday to adopt a U.S.-British resolution that formally ends the occupation of Iraq on June 30 and authorizes U.S.-led troops to keep the peace. In a packed council chamber, the 15-nation body endorsed a "sovereign interim government" in Iraq, following two weeks of negotiations and a last-minute addition by the United States and Britain on military policy to meet Franceâs concerns.
"Sacre bleu! Mr. Baker has that in his briefcase? We vote 'oui'!"
"With todayâs vote, we acknowledge an important milestone. By June 30, Iraq will reassert its sovereignty, a step forward on the path toward a democratically elected government," said U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte, who will become ambassador to Iraq at the end of the month.
The resolution paves the way for elections by giving a timetable for the polls -- no later than Jan. 31, 2005. It puts Iraq in charge of its oil proceeds and calls for the United Nations to help with elections, a constitution and many other tasks. It also gives the Iraqi interim government the right to order U.S. troops to leave at any time and makes clear the mandate of the international force will expire by the end of January 2006.
U.S. officials believe the unanimous passage of the Security Council resolution was accelerated an endorsement from visiting Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari. "Thatâs what really caused the end of the debate," said a senior State Department official.
Control of the 160,000 U.S.-led troops was the most contentious issue in the resolution, which authorizes a multinational force under American command to "use all necessary measures" to prevent violence. At the insistence of France and others, the resolution includes a pledge by the United States for a military "partnership" and coordination with Iraqâs leaders on "sensitive offensive operations." But it does not say what happens in case of a disagreement, prompting France, Germany, Algeria and others to propose Iraq had the right to block a major U.S. campaign. The United States rejected this demand.
Franceâs ambassador, Jean-Marc de la Sabliere said he was satisfied with the text but would have preferred the text "spell out what would happen in event of a disagreement."
I would prefer to disclose the contents of Mr. Baker's briefcase, but ya can't have everything, my pappy says.
"I think it shows the international community coming together again in their rage and impotence to support the Iraqi people in their efforts to build a country that rests on the foundations of democracy and freedom and the rights of all so that they can try to cut a deal," Secretary of State Colin Powell said in Washington.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
Let's see. We on the Security Council vote in unanimously to permit the US to commit their troops, shed their blood, and spend their money. Only, they must play by our rules.
#2
I'm wondering how long the Administration has known about the Bribes-for-Oil(tm) scandal and was just waiting for the UN vote to come up.
Posted by: Sean ||
06/09/2004 11:54 Comments ||
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...and what interesting documentation the Administration just happened to have laying around. Hasn't it struck anyone how amazingly cooperative the Security Council has been, in this? Almost as if someone had their essential bits in a vice, and was just starting to squeeze.
The alleged links of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) with global terrorist groups like the Jemaah Islamiya (JI) and al-Qaeda remain a touchy issue that the United States is continuing to scrutinize.
"The links are there nobody can deny them the only issue is whether itâs with factions of MILF or with the central group of MILF," US Charge dâ Affaires Joseph Mussolemi said in a press briefing at the USAid Growth with Equity in Mindanao conference room Wednesday.
He expressed hope that the peace negotiations with the MILF will be successful so that separatist group will not earn the terrorist tag.
"We are concerned about their links with various terrorist organizations such as JI, al-Qaeda, and ASG (Abu Sayyaf group), but the MILF itself has never been designated as a terrorist group at least not yet," he said.
Mussolemi said the MILF hierarchy is in "a very difficult situation" because the US does know there are links between the JI and certain factions within the MILF and still the US and Philippine governments are giving them the benefit of the doubt.
"Either, number one, theyâre not telling us the truth about their linkages, or number two, they do not have control over their people," he said.
"Either one is not a very good situation."
He said that if the links are with factions, the MILF hierarchy should be assertive enough to discipline some of its regulars who maintain linkages with terrorists. If the links are with the hierarchy itself, the MILF is being double-faced about its dealings and is not sincere in pursuing the peace negotiations.
"One way or the other they need to make some hard decisions, decide what type of organization they want to be. Are they here for the benefit of their people, are they here for some global terrorist Islamic state of some sort? I donât know. But itâs up for them to decide," he said.
He, however, did not give a timeframe within which the MILF should prove that its terrorist links are not part and parcel of its official existence as an insurgent group.
"Right now, we remain hopeful and we believe that good faith is there on both sides and that a peace accord will be reached," he said.
Mussolemi, however, said the terrorist tag and the success of the peace talks are two different matters and shouldnât be taken as a prerequisite of the other.
"I would be very reluctant to use the terrorist tag as incentive for people to sit down in good faith and reach a peace accord. Thatâs not the way.
That sort of pressure and undue influence will not be productive," he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 2:44:10 PM ||
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#1
I really wish these turds would change their name - I keep thinking its a story about hot soccer moms.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/09/2004 14:48 Comments ||
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#2
Sam, I am afraid I will have to ask you to explain that hot soccer moms comment.... I dont get it....
Remember that Abu Sayyaf was originally a splinter group of MILF and MILF can always 'splinter' another group to get 'deniability'....
THE military is looking into the possibility that some politicians in Tawi-Tawi may be involved in the kidnap-for-ransom activities, following the discovery of a barangay chief and his brother, who were allegedly providing protection to a suspected group of Abu Sayyaf kidnapers in the village of Mag-Saggad, Panglima Sugala, in the town of Bato-Bato, Monday.
Naval Task force 62 Commander Navy Capt. Feliciano Angue, revealed that marine troops, backed up by the police, scoured the village, where they found its chieftain identified as Nasser Dammang on the side of the armed group that engaged his forces in nearly an hour of firefight.
Angue said Dammangâs brother identified as Barly Galib was captured during the encounter that started at 3:55 pm and lasted up to 4:45 pm, resulting to one death on the side of the armed elements, who withdrew to the forests after they were completely overpowered by the troops.
Angue disclosed that Dammang and Galib are brothers of the out-going vice mayor of the place.
"He (Dammang) knows his brotherâs involvement with the kidnap-for-Ransom Group (KRG), and he may even be involved with the same group," Angue bared.
Angue said it is "very probable" that certain politicians in the area are involved in the activities attributed to the Abu Sayyaff terrorist group operating in the archipelago, including the recent kidnapping of Indonesian tugboat skipper Sam Walter Pel and his two Malaysian crew Wong Sien Nung and Toh Chien Tiong.
During the latest operation, troops claimed one casualty on the side of the armed group while no one suffered on their side.
Recovered from the fleeing armed group were an M-16 rifle with magazine and ammo, a .45 Caliber pistol with its magazine and ammo, an M-79 grenade launcher with ammo and two Icom Hand-held radios.
The body of the slain suspected bandit was retrieved by his relatives.
Angue said their massive search and rescue operation for the three hostages being held captive by the suspected Abu Sayyaf kidnapers will expand to other areas of the archipelago after a search in their suspected initial hideout in the small islands of Mapun and Turtle in Taganak yielded negative results.
"Our continuous operation will intensify until we can wipe out the lawless elements and save the three hostages from their hands," Angue vowed.
In their first massive assault against the outlaws in the Tawi-Tawi, three suspected kidnapers were killed while seven others were captured.
The seven were turned over to the police in the province and are presently facing kidnapping charges, according to Angue.
In the said offensive, back-up air force planes sunk two speedboats of the lawless band, resulting to undetermined others believed to have perished, according to an earlier report reaching the Southern Command from Angue.
The seven suspected Abu Sayyaf bandits had said during the tactical interrogation that they were simple agar-agar growers in the area.
But Angue countered they have strong evidence to prove otherwise.
The outlaws occupied the villagersâ still-houses in Umapuy and converted them as their bunkhouses.
Angue, however, denied reports that the houses were destroyed during the assault.
"We inspected the area and their houses are untouched. In fact, they have already returned to their respective places," Angue said.
The three Asian sailors were seized in the high seas of the border between Sabah, Malaysian and Tawi-Tawi on April 11, while their tugboat Ocean 2 was towing a barge loaded with pebbles intended to Solomon Island, in Malaysia, when 10 heavily armed men on board their fast craft intercepted them and headed towards Tawi-Tawi with their victims.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 2:00:06 PM ||
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Defense Secretary Eduardo Ermita disclosed that governmentâs anti-terrorism task force is currently interrogating suspected international terrorist Hassan Bakre, who was nabbed in Maguindanao, to find out plans of the al-Qaeda terrorist network of Osama bin Laden in the Philippines.
He said initial tactical interrogation has been conducted on Bakre but the task force is still grilling him to uncover the plans of al-Qaeda in the country.
This is the reason why the task force has not yet presented Bakre to the public.
âThe usual practice is to conduct tactical interrogation. What we can extract from him. We might get information from him and find out who his companions are,â said Ermita.
"They [al-Qaeda] might have plans for the projection of their activities outside Lanao or Maguindanao. These are the things we want to find out. We donât want to preempt it [terror plot], so thatâs the reason why he has not been presented,â Ermita added.
A source earlier revealed that Bakre has admitted teaching some 500 Islamic students on bombing techniques at a Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) stronghold in Camp Omar in Datu Piang, Maguindanao.
Bakre allegedly trained some terrorists at Mount Cararao in Lanao del Sur. It was not mentioned if among those he trained were fighters of the MILF.
âThere was no such mention [about training of MILF fighters]. But of course as far as we are concerned, we just verify and validate the reports of the intelligence [community] that these people [foreign terrorists] are being coddled in MILF camps,â Ermita said.
Ermita said the military is now tracking down about 30 to 40 associates of Bakre.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 1:38:13 PM ||
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grilling him, huh? Use a low flame
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/09/2004 20:08 Comments ||
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From Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty
Despite intense lobbying, Iranâs government will in all likelihood face another disappointment when European Union foreign ministers meet in Luxembourg next Monday. Officials say the ministers are likely to defer discussions on whether to relaunch trade talks with Iran. The negotiations were suspended a year ago in the wake of allegations of clandestine nuclear activity in the country. ....
Sources in Brussels say EU ministers want to wait until after the International Atomic Energy Agencyâs (IAEA) next board of governors meeting, which takes place from 14-18 June in Vienna. .... EU officials say the recent parliamentary elections in Iran -- in which scores of reformists were not allowed to run -- seriously damaged goodwill toward the country.
Meanwhile, however, the EU has sanctioned another meeting within the framework of the low-level human rights dialogue being conducted with Iran. .... EU officials say the recent parliamentary elections in Iran -- in which scores of reformists were not allowed to run -- seriously damaged goodwill toward the country. One official said yesterday that, before the elections, the European Commission had supported setting a date for the resumption of trade talks, to reward Tehran for signing up to an IAEA nuclear-inspections protocol. Now, the official said, "no one is in a hurry." He said the elections "changed the atmospherics of the talks" .... EU representatives will go to Tehran next week in the hope that they can make a difference by discussing human rights issues face-to-face with Iranian officials and representatives of civil society.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/09/2004 10:10:43 AM ||
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I'm sure that the Iranians are terrified that the EU might pass a resolution that threatens them with serious consequences if they don't cut a few more back room deals with France and Belgium.
Posted by: B ||
06/09/2004 12:43 Comments ||
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#2
they might be more afraid if the EU just promised to let the Israelis do whatever actions they thought appropriate....
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/09/2004 12:56 Comments ||
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#3
Does anyone else get a feeling that the EU is busily rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as Iran goes about arming itself with nuclear weapons?
If it requires unilateral intervention by America, so be it, but Iran's weapons development program had best be blown to hell in short order. Allowing Iran to fabricate nuclear weapons could easily go down as the single worst lapse of judgement in the new millennia.
Flowerbeds and lawns planted over dread nuclear installations
Very long, snipped, but good article for DEBKA.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Can't you see it, the Iranians are trying to push "W's" last nerve, in a knee jerk reaction before the election! November 3rd will bring about the swiftest 'seeing of the light' since they released the hostages for Reagan. I bet President Bush need mention "axis of evil" only once!!
#4
Wouldn't that be something, B! If, God forbid, Bush were to lose the election, he goes ahead and invades Iran, kicks the mullahs out and leaves Kerry the responsibilty of stabilizing the country. Oh wait, I said 'responsibility', lefties don't know what that word means.
#5
The fresh flowerbeds were still in the same places as before but the lawns had been extended to cover the former sites, most probably with thick layers of earth. All the inspectors could do was to remove soil samples and take them away.
They might want to check some of those flowers and grass for mutation or tumors. A tell-tale sign.
"Excuse me, but did that rose bush just eat a field mouse?"
All praises be to Allah and peace be upon His messenger, Prophet Muhammad, his families, companions and whoever follows:
Once again, we repeat our call and send this clear message to our Muslim brothers, warning against fellowship with the Crusaders, the Americans, Westerners and all idols in the Arab Gulf. Muslims should not associate with them anywhere, be it in their homes, complexes or travel with them by any means of transportation.
Prophet Muhammad said "I am free from who lives among idols".
No Muslim should risk his life as he may inadvertently be killed if he associates with the Crusaders, whom we have no choice but to kill.
Everything related to them such as complexes, bases, means of transportation, especially Western and American Airlines, will be our main and direct targets in our forthcoming operations on our path of Jihad that we, with Allahâs Power, will not turn away from.
We confirm and repeat this statement in support of the Ummah (Islam nation), caring for our Muslim brothersâ blood for who we undertake these operations, to defend them, their religion, honor and lands and to be free from those who disobey Allahâs Orders and continue to live with the Crusaders thereby gaining an evil omen.
We further repeat our warning to the security officials and those who guard the American complexes and who stand with America and its hired help, who takes up arms against the Mujahideen for defending for them and their interests such as the Saudi government and others who choose to support the idolâs regime over the Islamic one. We call them to repent, separate and to hate idols by fighting them with money, tongues and arms.
Our prayer to Allah is that we may assist His religion and spread His word and we ask to be given His enemies. Allah alone is sufficient and the end belongs to the pious believers. There is no aggression except upon oppressors. Praise be to Allah is our last worship.
Al-Qaida Organization of the Arab Gulf
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/09/2004 8:53:11 AM ||
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Ahhhh... the Religon of Peace.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/09/2004 11:17 Comments ||
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#2
Just so you know - the way to translate "Arabian Peninsula" is:
al-Jazeera
The reason you will not see this group's name printed in full arabic transliteration is that the media does not want people to confuse Al-Qaida fi al-Jazeera with the TV network al-Jazeera.
#5
The reason you will not see this group's name printed in full arabic transliteration is that the media does not want people to confuse Al-Qaida fi al-Jazeera with the TV network al-Jazeera.
You mean they're not on the same side or anything?
Posted by: Mike ||
06/09/2004 11:37 Comments ||
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#6
I'm so tired of this Crusader crap. If Americans were one-tenth the monsters these creatures say we are, the only problem left would be how to dispose of all the dead muslims and all the overblown jihadi rhetoric couldn't do a thing to stop it. People in that part of the world live only because we allow them to live.
#7
We confirm and repeat this statement in support of the Ummah (Islam nation), caring for our Muslim brothersâ blood for who we undertake these operations.
We kill them to care for their blood. Gee. Didn't realize they were siphoning up all the blood from the splatter their dead brothers leave in their wake. Sounds a little vampirish to me.
#9
For the first time I agree with Jihad Unspun. I wouldn't have a problem if all Muslims moved out of the crusder and Idolitar countries. Then they should learn to take on the jobs of the Crusaders and Idolitars in the oil industry and isolate themselves entirely. Win win.
Oh, but they love the lapdances, gambling on the Rivera and heaven forbid someone might suggest work.
#12
Here' something to ponder:
the Canadian Society of Muslims projects that by 2025, Muslims will represent 30% of the world's population. Christianity will be only 25%. No stats are given for other religions, so they must not be a significant number.
http://muslim-canada.org/muslimstats.html Largely through immigration, the Muslim population of the United States grew sixfold between 1972 and 1990. And even in countries where immigration has been suppressed, the growth continues. Last year, seven percent of babies born in European Union countries were Muslims. In Brussels, the figure was a staggering 57 percent. Islam is already the second religion of almost every European state - the only exceptions being those European countries such as Azerbaijan and Albania where it is the majority religion.
Are any of you betting men and women?
Do any of you believe that democracy will take hold in Muslim dominated countries in a mere 25 years. Or will it be Allah's words that will dominate Muslims' actions 25 years from now?
And don't count on moderate Muslims to save the day. With regards to moderate Muslims, I'm betting most them will not bear arms against the fundamentalists because the Koran forbids killing "good" Muslims following Allah's words...and who follows the Koran more literally than anyone else but fundamentalists?
That's why Al Queda is enunciating the battle as being a religious one of Muslims against Crusaders. Al Queda is continually warning moderate Muslims not following the Koran to wise up and get on the same page as them. This is not a warning to "infidels" because we are beyond saving.
Unfortunately, our leaders cannot define the battle as a religious one... at least not at this stage.
I think our collective "infidel" goose is cooked. Any bets?
Posted by: rex ||
06/09/2004 14:21 Comments ||
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#13
The world would like to lie to itself about what is happening and how dangerous it is, but you are absolutely correct, Rex. Unless your future is as a volunteer suicide bomber or mine a volunteer breeding animal under a burka, we BETTER be prepared to define the battle as a religious one.
#15
Largely through immigration, the Muslim population of the United States grew sixfold between 1972 and 1990
and they are less than 3% of the population..and hopefully Ashcroft can scare the rest in staying away. we do not need the religion of peace..we need decent hard working folks..not lazy whinning bastards...who send thier kids to kill
Posted by: Dan ||
06/09/2004 16:12 Comments ||
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#16
Which Idols are they talking about?
Rueben or Fantasia?
Billy.
Posted by: Rafael ||
06/09/2004 17:14 Comments ||
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#17
I read somewhere, too, that there's a growing Christianity in the Southern hemisphere; we may have some allies there that we haven't thought to bring in . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/09/2004 17:31 Comments ||
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I read somewhere, too, that there's a growing Christianity in the Southern hemisphere
In a February 16, 2004 WND article Joseph Farrah says the opposite:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37133
"Al Queda south of the border"
...The Argentinean intelligence service assessment, privy among others, to European and Middle Eastern agencies, has reached a significant and grave conclusion, according to G2 Bulletin. It claims since 9/11 and the partial success in the war against terrorism, mainly in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Central Asia, the jihadi pendulum is tilting more and more toward South America...the growing danger is that of militant Islam penetrating Mexico, a country with an increasing Muslim community, including Muslim converts. Some of them have ties to the Mexican community and to illegal immigrants' smugglers operating in American states bordering Mexico, especially those with connections in the greater Los Angeles area and other major cities...Both al-Qaida and Hezbollah were active in the common border area of Colombia, Peru and Ecuador, according to an earlier statement of Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage in hearings before the Foreign Appropriations Subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee, cited in a report from Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty...Some 6 million people of Muslim descent live in Latin America and there are reports that many indigenous people are converting to Islam.
Also,
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/LatinAmerica/latinos.html ...But in growing numbers, Hispanics, the country's fastest-growing ethnic group, are finding new faith in Islam, the nation's fastest-growing religion. Moved by what many say is a close-knit religious environment and a faith that provides a more concrete, intimate connection with God, they are replacing Mass with mosques.
http://hispanicmuslims.com/articles/historyhispanic.html
"History Draws Hispanics to Islam"
Posted by: rex ||
06/09/2004 18:36 Comments ||
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#19
Hmm. I got my info from a book called The Next Christendom, by . . . Philip Jenkins, I think. His analysis was that Christianity was growing. Maybe it's been reversed since he published, although I don't think it was *that* long ago . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/09/2004 20:15 Comments ||
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#20
Check out the IslamicFinder website.
You can look at individual countries for prayer times and Islamic associations. Very interesting...Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, etc all have active Muslim religious groups.
http://www.islamicfinder.org/world.php
Posted by: rex ||
06/09/2004 21:03 Comments ||
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From Policy Review, an article by Michael J. Mazarr is professor of national security strategy at the U.S. National War College.
.... there is an inherently psychological character to the war on terrorism that remains poorly appreciated: The security threats the United States faces today have everything to do with the pressures of modernity and globalization, the diaphanous character of identity, the burden of choice, and the vulnerability of the alienated. .... Everyone these days seems to be talking about the human effects of modernization and globalization, and the ways in which frustration, rage, and ultimately terrorism spring up from the collision of the new and the traditional. ....
The best diagnosis of the extremist upheavals of the previous century and today can be found in the philosophical tradition of existentialism. Amid much variety, a consistent motif emerges: All existentialists worry that modern, mass technological life tranquilizes people, drains us of our authenticity, of our will and strength to live a fully realized life. The result of this process is alienation, frustration, and anger. .... Existentialists plead with all of us to be our own people, to think rigorously and independently about what we believe, feel, and want. The self-help movement as a whole â its emphasis on self-esteem and on controlling oneâs own destiny â emerges directly .... The problem is that ... a few end up trying in ruinous ways ... and find, instead of Tony Robbins, Osama and his like. ....
The passionate yet calculating, vicious yet idealistic, brilliant yet astonishingly misguided members of al Qaeda can be seen as, at least partly, engaged in a search to reclaim these lost elements of their humanity, their being. .... Existentialism implies, and indeed often preaches, a rejection of whatever moral system happens to hold sway. .... The ultimate manifestation of an authentic life, according to at least some of the existentialists, is to regain control over the manner and purpose of oneâs death. ... Passionate risk-taking and identity-seeking gone wrong on a mass as well as a micro scale have haunted â and, from time to time, devastated â the modern world. ....
Eric Hofferâs study of such people, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements (Harper & Row, 1951), remains the best. All mass movements, he wrote, âdraw their early adherents from the same types of humanity; they all appeal to the same types of mind.â That type is the frustrated individual â people âwho, for one reason or another, feel that their lives are spoiled or wasted.â Hoffer distinguishes between the satisfied on the one hand and the frustrated and dissatisfied on the other: People with a âsense of fulfillment,â he writes, think that the world is basically good and âwould like to conserve it as it is, while the frustrated favor radical change.â Thus it is that radical movements must depict the present as despoiled and ruined and point both to an idealized past and the hope of a purified and restored future, quite literally creating a fantasy in the minds of their followers. ....
Hoffer has more to say. Fanatical mass movements strive after a âprimitiveâ ideal. They find the modern world to be weak and worthless and uphold rough, rigorous, self-sacrificial modes of life as an alternative. Theatrical to the core, they strive for grand acts. They âreligiofyâ their ideology. They tell a story of a glorious, purified future to be achieved through their own strategies â along with a wondrous past that proves such a future is possible. Through all of this, they inspire suicidal devotion: âTo lose oneâs life is but to lose the present,â explains Hoffer, âand, clearly, to lose a defiled, worthless present is not to lose much.â ....
Socioeconomic development furnishes people with the material resources they need to make choices â money to educate themselves and to travel, capital to open a business, and so forth. Cultural changes accompanying modernization invariably produce, in every society yet studied, a greater emphasis on values of self-expression and individualism. Then democratization slowly emerges, adding political choices to the menu and, by creating a system of effectively protected individual rights, creating a secure umbrella for choice of all kinds. Inglehart and his co-authors refer to the resulting combination of factors as âHuman Development,â and, as they say, choice is the central theme. This should hardly come as a surprise because âthe concept that the core principle of modernization is the broadening of âhuman choice,â is implicit in modernization theory.â
Choice flies directly in the face of tradition. .... For someone following a traditional practice, questions donât have to be asked about alternatives. .... As Hannah Arendt pointed out long ago, it is when tradition becomes beleaguered that its defenders become most impassioned; it is when âthe tradition loses its living force and as the memory of its beginning recedesâ that the power of tradition âbecomes more tyrannical.â ....
If we are indeed engaged in a war on terrorism, it is a war not against tank divisions or infrastructure, but against a mindset. Our enemyâs center of gravity lies in the thirst of millions of young people, especially those in particular regions of the world, for self-actualization, identity, and self-worth in a world filled with daunting (and Western-tainted) free choice and options. ....
But if so, then what do we do about it? And especially, what do we do that is different from what we are currently doing?
What a social-psychological approach to the problem of extremist terrorism does not do is undermine the importance of toughness or deny the simple truth that the conflict ... pits the modern world against some truly evil people. Those fully in the grip of a fantasy ideology are in many ways lost to the ideology. âThe fanatic,â Eric Hoffer warned, âcannot be weaned away from his cause by an appeal to his reason or moral sense. He fears compromise and cannot be persuaded to qualify the certitude and righteousness of his holy cause.â ....
To address the threat of extremist Islam, Graham Fuller writes, âone of two things must happen: either the conditions that helped impel Islamism into political life will have to weaken or disappear, or some other force or ideology will arise to meet the need more effectively.â ....
A [positive] strategy to achieve this goal could have several elements. One ... ought to be a full-blown war of ideas to counter the specific ideology of Islamic extremism â the sort of contest that the West waged against Soviet communism from the 1940s onward .... The goal of such a campaign would be to furnish the people of the Islamic world broad and deep new sources of information about the United States, the West, and their values and to explain, with far more detail and persuasive force, the basis for U.S. policies.
Another requirement is to address the sources of resentment to be found within American policies. Multilateralism is not just a catch phrase .... vast millions of others in the Islamic world, watching the global hegemon for signs of humility and restraint, might cast a more suspicious eye on the extremistsâ claims if Washington acts, again and again, in the name of the world community. ....
To combat the identity entrepreneurs of extremist Islam, we need others like them â but others who offer not an identity based on violence, terror, and the hoped-for utopia of seventh-century primitiveness, but instead a future of greater freedom, higher standards of living, and continued expression of national and cultural values. The major focus of our strategy, then, could become the support for groups and individuals making the case for a happy marriage of modernism and Islam.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/09/2004 7:28:33 AM ||
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This is one of those articles that I really should digest for a few days in order to properly analyze, but the medium does not allow that, so I will shoot from the hip.
There is a neo-marxist context to the whole thing. He mis-represents Existentialists who are essentially concerned with the primacy of the individual irrespective of the pragmatics of social interactions/institutions. He constructs a false dichotomy between those who don't want change (conservatives) and those who do (radicals). As I explained earlier this is not the distinction that matters - it is between those who are pragmatists (utilitarians) who want incremental consensual improvements (with occasional radical changes where the process of incremental change is clearly blocked - think Iraq) and those who are seeking to achieve some idealized state that they somehow understand how to get there.
One final point is the whole hearts and minds argument I think is fundamentally false. Convincing your opponents that your ideas are superior and they should join you is good but is not the only way to win and outside some modern contexts has never been tried, never mind shown to work.
I am more and more drawn to the 19th century British model. Impose the rule of law, build schools, roads and hospitals, buy off the people who oppose you and that doesn't work use the Gatling gun.
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/09/2004 9:06 Comments ||
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#2
Put another way the electric prayer carpet is the very latest in allens gifts to arabs.
#3
The psychological sources?
Vengeance as a construct of self worth.
Barbarity as a measurement of masculinity.
Religious idealism as the big stick of societal order and cohesion.
Shame of women as the essence of the superego.
Double talk and the duplicity in the spoken word as the mascots of survival of the fittest.
Faceless terrorists as icons of racial and religious omnipotence.
#4
Lot of stuff here, may take me some time to wade through it all.
My initial reaction upon scanning it, though, is "tough." These people have a belief that their twisted, sick "religion" is going to rule the world. Hiding under rocks and in caves, they plan and plot the destruction of the Western world using the very things that exist only because of the philosophies of said Western world. They brutally murder without batting an eye, they have vast networks of money and people, and they couch their rhetoric and threats in 7th century language. They want to turn back the clock so that their version of things is the way the world is. They feel that they've been beaten, humiliated, and now they want revenge.
They've been beaten and humiliated because they haven't adapted. They haven't learned. America stands in its way, and as long as good, strong leaders like George W. Bush, and the late Ronald Reagan, and as long as ordinary Americans like Fred exist, as long as decency and a love for freedom and individual human dignity exist, they won't win. Humiliation can ultimately be overcome. That's how the West was won: people believing in something and trying again and again, even after they'd been "humiliated." Not giving up and reaching for their guns at the first chance they got. These cave-dwelling idiots don't understand that, and because of that, they'll never win.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/09/2004 11:51 Comments ||
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#5
Good article, but the problem won't be solved as it is as old as time.
Not to go religious on anyone or anything, but give the poor bastards Christianity. It's just their misfortune they bequeathed the seething-rage, lop-off-their-head version rather than the faith-hope-charity-forgiveness version which makes Western culture and democracy work so well and provides personal peace.
Christianity can offer both - a better life here AND in the hereafter.
Nothing will ever keep the frustrated from trying to erase their mistakes by asking for a do-over of the system that they feel left behind in. Can't make it within the system? It's not your fault, it's the system's fault. No problem, we'll just create a new one and you will be on top - We GUARANTEE it!
The number of the frustrated could be reduced if they were provided a viable alternative to deal with their sense of hopelessness and failure. Islam has failed its followers in this regard by telling them they need do nothing except blame the Jews. Christianity (as taught by Christ) is like AA in that it allows one to overcome bottoming out by acknowledging(confessing) their (failure)sins, receiving forgiveness and then striving to be better one day at a time.
Posted by: B ||
06/09/2004 12:13 Comments ||
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PESHAWAR: Unknown terrorists attacked Frontier Corps camp on Thursday early morning. After attack on the FC camp, firefight between FC men and terrorists started that last for half an hour, however, there has been no report of loss of civilian lives. On Wednesday, some FC posts were also attacked and firefights and clashes continued on the whole day. According Political Agent South Waziristan, 20 terrorists were killed in the armed clashes, while civilians were also killed. There were also reports of death of many FC and Army men, but state sources did not confirm it.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/09/2004 9:01:42 AM ||
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June 9 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. urged Russia, the worldâs second-largest oil exporter and biggest natural gas producer, to accelerate plans to build an oil export port and liquefied natural gas terminal in its northwest that could supply fuel to the U.S.
OAO Lukoil and OAO Yukos Oil Co., Russiaâs two biggest oil producers, lead a $4.5 billion project to build an oil pipeline to Murmansk, an ice-free port on the Barents Sea, to boost oil sales to the U.S. Russian pipeline monopoly OAO Transneft is studying a different plan to build a shorter link to Indiga, east of Murmansk.
``We are very encouraged byââ Russiaâs plans for ``greater export capacity in the northwest,ââ U.S. Deputy Energy Secretary Kyle McSlarrow told reporters in Moscow. ``That is something that will both be good for Russia and potentially will be good for the U.S. in terms of our energy security.ââ
Russia raised oil output by about 50 percent over the last six years and pumped more crude in the first five months of 2004 than Saudi Arabia. At the same time, the U.S., the biggest oil consumer, seeks to diversify supplies from the Middle East. Russia and the U.S. are also discussing ways for Russia to start supplying liquefied natural gas to the U.S. after 2010.
Russiaâs OAO Gazprom is in talks with potential partners such as Exxon Mobil Corp., Royal Dutch/Shell Group and ConocoPhillips to develop the offshore Shtokman field, which has enough gas to supply the U.S. for four years. The project may need $10 billion to $15 billion to produce 20 million tons of LNG a year, according to estimates from ConocoPhillips.
McSlarrow met with executives from Yukos, Gazprom and Transneft in Moscow this week. His visit comes 10 days after U.S. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham came to Moscow to call for an increase of Russiaâs energy exports and for the acceleration of Gazpromâs projects to liquefy gas in the Arctic.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 10:51:17 PM ||
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(This is not kosher but Ariel should hold on.)
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has lost his parliamentary majority, but his government does not appear to be in immediate danger. The coalition has been shaken after two pro-settler ministers who oppose Mr Sharonâs Gaza disengagement plan resigned on Tuesday. The move leaves Mr Sharon with the support of no more than 59 members in the 120-seat Knesset. But the opposition Labour party says it is prepared to act as a safety net. GAZA PULL-OUT PLAN
Pull-out from all 21 settlements in Gaza and 4 in West Bank
Preparation period due to end by March 2005
Four-stage evacuation to be completed by end of 2005
Each stage requires cabinet vote
Labour leader Shimon Peres told public radio on Wednesday:
"You cannot fail to be happy that Likud [Mr Sharonâs party] has renounced its deceptive dream of creating a Greater Israel, accepted the idea of dismantling settlements and the creation of a Palestinian state." The leader of the Likud party in parliament has also expressed confidence that the government is not facing an immediate threat. "The coalition can rely on the support of no more than 59 deputies but the opposition is not in a position to mobilise 61 to bring down the government," Gideon Saar said.
The two cabinet members who resigned, Housing Minister Effi Eitam and junior minister Yitzhak Levy, belong to the pro-settler National Religious Party (NRP). Phased pull-out
NRP members were angered by the cabinetâs approval of Mr Sharonâs plan to withdraw from Gaza by the end of 2005, uprooting 7,500 Jewish settlers.
However, the party âs four other Knesset members have decided to stay in the government for now, sparing the need for Mr Sharon to seek a new coalition partner or carry on at the head of a minority government. On Sunday, cabinet voted 14 to seven to back a revised version of Mr Sharonâs disengagement plan for a phased pull-out from Gaza - but it postponed a vote on implementation until next year. Under the amended plan, fresh votes will be needed at each stage before settlements are removed, and the process will not begin until March 2005.
Last week, Mr Sharon sacked two pro-settler opponents of his plan - Tourism Minister Benny Elon and Transport Minister Avigdor Lieberman of the National Union party.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 10:53:53 PM ||
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Just when gas/oil prices are dropping.....
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Jun 09, 2004 (AP Online via COMTEX) -- Saboteurs blew up a key northern oil pipeline Wednesday, forcing a 10 percent cut on the national power grid as demand for electricity rises with the advent of Iraqâs broiling summer heat. Meanwhile, gunfire rang out Wednesday night in the Shiite holy city of Najaf for the first time since an agreement last week to end weeks of bloody fighting between American soldiers and militiamen loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Residents said gunmen attacked a police station near the cityâs Revolution of 1920 Square, and it appeared American troops were not involved.
Clashes persisted Wednesday around Fallujah, a rebellious Sunni Muslim city west of Baghdad. Four members of an Iraqi force in charge of the city since April were wounded when a mortar round exploded. 1st Lt. Amer Jassim speculated the attackers were firing at Americans but missed. The pipeline blast near Beiji, 155 miles north of Baghdad, was the latest in a series of attacks by insurgents against infrastructure targets, possibly to shake public confidence as a new Iraqi government prepares to take power June 30. The attack on the pipeline - which carries fuel to the Beiji power station, one of Iraqâs largest - forced a 10 percent cutback in the countryâs 4,000-megawatt production, Assem Jihad, an Oil Ministry spokesman, told Dow Jones Newswires.
The U.S.-run coalition had made its ability to guarantee adequate electricity supplies a benchmark of success in restoring normalcy to Iraq. However, sabotage and frayed infrastructure have impeded efforts to eliminate power outages, especially in the capital. More than a year after the occupation began, power cuts are common nationwide, in some places topping 16 hours a day. Demand is rising with the advent of summer, with temperatures already topping 100 degrees.
Elsewhere, Polish authorities said an explosion that killed six European soldiers - two Poles, three Slovaks and one Latvian - south of Baghdad on Tuesday was caused by a mortar attack rather than an accident as first reported. Gen. Piotr Czerwinski, the head of a special investigating commission, said he suspected that Saddam Hussein loyalists were responsible for the deaths - the first in Iraq for the small Slovak and Latvian contingents. U.S. and other multinational forces will remain in Iraq after the new government takes power at the end of the month under terms of a resolution approved unanimously Tuesday by the U.N. Security Council.
Prime Minister Iyad Allawi described the vote as a victory for Iraq because it declares an end to the military presence when a constitutionally elected government takes power in 2006 - or before, if the Iraqi government requests it. "The resolution is very clear that once Iraq stands on its feet, then we would ask the multinational forces to leave Iraq," Allawi said. "This is ... an entirely a government issue."
In Rome, three Italians returned home Wednesday, a day after they and a Polish hostage were freed by coalition forces. Kidnappers had held the Italians for two months. "Weâre home, weâre home," shouted Maurizio Agliana, a towering, burly man who gave the thumbs-up sign after embracing his sister on the tarmac of Ciampino airport. Foreign Ministry official Alessandro Cevese said the hostages were not beaten but had been made to sleep on the floor, and were twice held for several days in a bathroom measuring 6.5 feet by 6.5 feet.
One of the hostages, Salvatore Stefio, challenged a captor who ordered him to take off his wedding band, declaring: "Well, then shoot me," Cevese said. Stefio was eventually forced to give up the ring. The men did not know that a fourth hostage abducted with them, Fabrizio Quattrocchi, had been executed, Cevese said. Quattrocchi may have been killed "because he was identified as someone close to the American structure, since he had a pass released by the CPA," the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority that governs Iraq.
Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the senior U.S. officer in Iraq, said the men were freed south of Baghdad. However, Premier Silvio Berlusconi said they were found in Ramadi, a hotbed of the Sunni Muslim insurgency 75 miles west of Baghdad.
At the G-8 summit in Sea Island, Ga., President Bush said he envisions a wider role for NATO in the volatile country. Fifteen NATO countries have troops in Iraq. "We believe NATO ought to be involved," Bush said. "We will work with our NATO friends to at least continue the role that now exists, and hopefully expand it somewhat." Last year, NATO took over the 6,400-strong international peacekeeping force in Afghanistan.
In other developments:
- A group holding two hostages - a Turk and an Egyptian - threatened to kill the captives after Friday prayers unless their home governments condemn U.S. actions in Iraq. The threat was made in a statement distributed in Fallujah.
- Insurgents attacked a Baghdad city council member Tuesday, wounding him and killing two of his bodyguards, the military said.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 10:01:04 PM ||
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(Recall Nigeria is a key OPEC player)
ABUJA, Nigeria (AP) -- Christians battled Muslims in a Nigerian city Wednesday, burning homes and places of worship in a dispute over construction of a mosque near a Christian tribal leaderâs palace. Police confirmed nine deaths and witnesses put the toll at more than 50. Muslims and Christians alike were fleeing the town of Numan, near Nigeriaâs eastern border with Cameroon. Authorities imposed a dusk-to-dawn curfew to try to stop the bloodletting.
Adamawa state Gov. Boni Haruna visited the town on Wednesday, at one point shedding tears as he toured the townâs morgue with journalists.
John Ngamfa, a reporter with the state-owned Scope newspaper, told The Associated Press he saw "many bodies, more than 50" piled up in the morgue.Many phones were down in the area, and mortuary officials could not be reached directly for comment. Police commissioner Abubakar Hafiz Ringim confirmed nine killed.
Christians of the local Bachama tribe had demanded for weeks that the areaâs minority Muslims destroy a mosque built early this year near the palace of Bachama chief Freddie Soditi Bongo. The Bachama complained the mosqueâs minaret was an affront to majority Christians because it was taller than the Christian leaderâs palace. Muslim leaders had refused to destroy the mosque until Christians pay for a new one elsewhere. When the fighting began Tuesday, youths tore down the minaret and heavily vandalized several other mosques in nearby Gyawana village, several Christian witnesses said.
Resident Joseph Myaturti, a Christian, said he saw one of the Muslim builders working on the mosque dragged to the chiefâs compound, where the man was whipped with chains. Myaturti spoke to the AP from the Adamawa state capital, Yola, where he had fled overnight. Fighting continued Wednesday despite the deployment of police reinforcements to the area.
Christian-Muslim violence has raged in Nigeria since a dozen northern states began implementing the strict punishments of Islamic Shariah law in 2000. Thousands have died in the fighting.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 11:17:09 PM ||
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#1
Nigerians--we hope your country will find fairness and peace again, soon.
If there is something to salvage from this violence, it may be this: Perhaps Muslims will now be willing to discriminate between real acts of violence against them and the phony charges of anti-Islam their PR people throw around so recklessly. Then again, they probably won't distinguish between the two--they'll just use the real one to try to prove the unreal others.
Pakistan (AP) -- Pakistani forces clashed with heavily armed foreign militants Wednesday, killing more than 20 people in a mountainous tribal region near the Afghan border where hundreds of al-Qaida fighters are believed to be hiding, officials and a tribal elder said. The bloodshed follows weeks of failed efforts to get the militants in South Waziristan to surrender to authorities by peaceful means after an army counterterrorism offensive in March that left 120 people dead.
Brig. Mahmood Shah, chief of security for Pakistanâs tribal regions, said foreigners and local tribesmen had been holed up in four fortress-like houses, about 25 miles from the Afghan frontier. He said they traded fire with paramilitary and army soldiers who had surrounded the area. Brig. Mahmood Shah, chief of security for Pakistanâs tribal regions, said foreigners and local tribesmen had been holed up in four fortress-like houses, about 25 miles from the Afghan frontier. He said they traded fire with paramilitary and army soldiers who had surrounded the area. He said about 20 foreign militants and one paramilitary soldier had been killed, and three civilians had died in the crossfire.
"The intermittent shooting continued until 4:30 p.m. and then finally it stopped. According to our information up to 20 foreigners have been killed. We have bodies of several of them. One injured is also with us," Shah told the private Geo television network. He said seven of the dead had already been buried, but others were lying ravines and could not be recovered.
An army statement said earlier that the bodies of at least eight militants, some of them foreigners, had been retrieved and one wounded militant captured. The security forces suffered a few casualties, it said without elaborating. Pakistani officials gave no information about the nationalities and the identities of those killed and captured in the clash in the Ghat Ghar area, about 20 miles west of Wana, the main town in South Waziristan.
Pakistanâs tribal areas bordering Afghanistan are a possible hideout for Osama bin Laden and his chief aide, Ayman al-Zawahiri. There was no immediate indication that top al-Qaida figures were among those involved in the clash.
Separately, Afghan and U.S. forces killed scores of Taliban rebels in a seven-day operation hundreds of miles to the southwest in a mountainous district of Afghanistan. They returned late Tuesday from the fighting in the rugged Daychopan district of Zabul province. Jan Mohammed Khan, commander of Afghan forces and the governor of neighboring Uruzgan province, said 73 Taliban fighters were killed and 13 captured over seven days, while six Afghan government forces and four coalition soldiers were wounded and none killed. U.S. military officials were not available for comment. Previously, officials had reported at least 40 insurgents killed in the past week.
Daychopan, a remote area and Taliban stronghold, lies near the borders of two neighboring provinces, Uruzgan and Kandahar, some 190 miles southwest of Kabul.
In Pakistan, Alam Khan Wazir, a tribal elder in Wana, said two civilians - a man and a woman - were killed in the crossfire when a mortar shell hit their house in Nikrankhel village. Two girls inside were wounded. The victims were from the same family. "The fighting is going on. Weâre afraid that many people are killed," he said.
Tension has been building in South Waziristan over the past month as authorities have pressured tribesmen to evict hundreds of Central Asian, Arab and Afghan militants, many of whom moved there from Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban regime in late 2001. The militants have refused to register with authorities despite a government amnesty offer that would allow them to settle in Pakistan if they renounce terrorism and abide by national laws.
The army and its leader President Gen. Pervez Musharraf - a key U.S. ally in its war on terrorism - have warned that another military operation could be launched unless the foreign militants give themselves up.The government already has imposed economic punishments on local tribesmen, by blockading Wana and closing the bazaar. To appease authorities, tribesmen raised a 4,000-strong force. The force had been hunting for foreigners since Monday, without any success, until it abruptly stopped work as the hostilities began.
Officials said the clash began early Wednesday, when two military posts and a camp came under rocket and mortar fire. The military returned fire and soldiers were sent to areas that appeared to be the source of the attack.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 11:10:54 PM ||
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BEIJING (AP) - Ten Chinese construction workers were killed Thursday in northern Afghanistan when "armed terrorists" opened fire at a construction site, Chinaâs government said. About 20 gunmen attacked the construction site in the province of Kondoz at about 1 a.m., the official Xinhua News Agency said, citing Chinese diplomats. It said security guards exchanged fire with the attackers but didnât say whether any of the gunmen were hit. Six Chinese workers also were injured, one of them critically, the report said. It didnât give any other details and the press office of the Chinese Foreign Ministry in Beijing said it had no additional information.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/09/2004 11:04:00 PM ||
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JPost Reg Reqâd
Palestinians claim a Hamas member was killed by IDF gunfire near Beit Hanun in the north Gaza Strip on Wednesday afternoon. Officers said an anti-tank rocket and light weapons were fired at soldiers deployed near the north Gaza security fence not far from the Palestinian town. Soldiers returned fire and confirmed hitting someone, but officers said they could not clarify if the dead person was in fact a Hamas member. Palestinian reports identified the dead man as Walid Ashour, and said several other Palestinians were wounded in the attack.
Near Jericho, security forces blew up a Palestinian taxi and arrested three Palestinians, the driver and two passengers, after soldiers who stopped the car for inspection at a roadblock discovered a bag containing 100 bullets, IDF uniforms, and a box containing suspect wires. Soldiers fearing the car was rigged with explosives blew it up, two of the Palestinians were later released.
Special Border Police units operating in Hares northwest of Hebron discovered 400 rifle bullets hidden inside a pillow thrown out of the window by a Palestinian on spotting security forces. Searching his home, security forces discovered additional rifle bullets, face masks, and fake Israeli identity cards. The Palestinian was arrested and handed over to the Shin Bet for questioning. During the operation shots were fired at troops, there were no reports of casualties.
Elsewhere in the West Bank, soldiers arrested 14 Palestinian fugitives. One soldier was lightly wounded during the arrest of four Islamic Jihad fugitives in Jenin. During the raid, security forces found in one of the suspectâs home a Kalashnikov rifle and ammunition clips. The army later identified two of the fugitives as senior Islamic Jihad leaders Ayoub Hamaisa and Ihab Saâadi. Palestinians reported that Saâadiâs wife was arrested by security forces last year. Four fugitives were caught in the Ramallah area, and five near Bethlehem.
Late Tuesday night, the air force shelled a Hamas weapons storehouse in Gaza City. During the day, shots were fired at IDF posts in Ganei Tal in Gush Katif and near Kfar Darom in south Gaza. In the afternoon, troops detonated a bomb placed by Palestinians near Rafah. Shots were also fired at an IDF patrol near the north Gaza security fence makeshift attacks by simpletons - more targetted assassinations, please
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/09/2004 7:47:34 PM ||
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Update to the article below...
Pakistani forces clashed with heavily armed foreign militants Wednesday, killing more than 20 people, in a mountainous tribal region near the Afghan border where hundreds of Al Qaeda fighters are believed to be hiding, officials and a tribal elder said. The bloodshed follows weeks of failed efforts to get the militants in South Waziristan to surrender to authorities by peaceful means after an army counterterrorism offensive in March that left 120 people dead.
Brig. Mahmood Shah, chief of security for Pakistan's tribal regions, said foreigners and local tribesmen had been holed up in four fortress-like houses, about 40 kilometers from the Afghan frontier. He said they traded fire with paramilitary and army soldiers who had surrounded the area. He said about 20 foreign militants and one paramilitary soldier had been killed, and three civilians had died in the crossfire. "The intermittent shooting continued until 4:30 p.m. and then finally it stopped. According to our information up to 20 foreigners have been killed. We have bodies of several of them. One injured is also with us," Shah told the private Geo television network. He said seven of the dead had already been buried, but others were lying ravines and could not be recovered. Earlier, an army statement said the bodies of at least eight militants, some of them foreigners, had been retrieved and one wounded militant captured. The security forces suffered a few casualties, it said without elaborating. Officials gave no information about the nationalities and the identities of those killed and captured in the clash in the Ghat Ghar area, about 30 kilometers (20 miles) west of Wana, the main town in South Waziristan.
Death Ray ready for field testing.
By Greg Gordon -- Sacramento BeeEFL.
WASHINGTON - Test subjects canât see the invisible beam from the Pentagonâs new, Star Trek-like weapon, but no one has withstood the pain it produces for more than three seconds. People who volunteered to stand in front of the directed energy beam say they felt as if they were on fire. When they stepped aside, the pain disappeared instantly.
The long-range column of millimeter-wave energy is known as the "Active Denial System" for its ability to prevent an aggressor from advancing. Senior military officials, who plan to deliver the device for troop evaluation this fall, say years of testing has produced no sign it will lead to health effects beyond perhaps causing skin to temporarily redden.
Marine Col. David Karcher, who heads the Pentagonâs Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate, says the energy beam is aimed at helping troops and police in confusing situations by offering options "between bullets and a bullhorn." . . . Karcher and other military officials are trying to alleviate fears that the device might be misused to harm civilians or converted into a torture machine that leaves no marks.
Remember the "agony booth" from the original Star Trek?
Introduction of such a device in either noncombat or wartime situations could raise thorny questions: Would it be acceptable to inflict so much pain on unruly protesters? Depends who they are.
How would such a weapon be viewed if used on crowds in Third World countries? "Donât mess with the Americans or youâll get hurt."
Would it violate international humanitarian principles if used in battle? "Of course it would. Under âinternational law,â it would be much more humane to shoot people dead than to use that thing on them." DUH!
Might it be used secretly during interrogations to torture suspected terrorists into cooperating? He asks that like itâs a bad thing.
Eleven years in the making at a cost of more than $50 million, the Active Denial System is still years from deployment. It weighs about 4 tons and consists largely of a big dish and antenna that are mounted on a Humvee multipurpose vehicle. . . . Once an operator has aimed the antenna using a scope, the press of a button sends out a column of millimeter-wave, electromagnetic energy at the speed of light. Pentagon officials say that the weaponâs exact reach and its column size are classified, but that it can extend beyond the 550-meter effective range of bullets. Its intensity is the same at any distance.
Ready for field trials. Coming soon to a theatre of war near you.
Posted by: Mike ||
06/09/2004 2:51:37 PM ||
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#1
Its Microwave a Mullah time!
al-Sadr better worry about the sound of engines approaching, then the ringing in his ears that became a splitting headache before he loases consciousness.
#2
But remember, it's for purely peaceful purposes. All who can should try to get hold of MST3K's version of Danger: Death Ray! (not available in stores).
#6
It's always painful when journalists who can barely balance their checkbooks try to write about science. If this sounds like Star Trek, it's probably because the device reminded the writer of an episode he had seen and so he described it in terms he could understand. Directed energy weapons have been around a long time (LASER, MASER, particle beam, et. al.). What's new and nifty here is that the device is non-lethal and CAN be used for crowd control. This is part of a continuing effort to come up with nonlethal weapons that can control an enemy's actions with a minimum of collateral damage.
#11
What's the deal here? They've been testing the heck out of the thing and it works. So how come it is STILL "years from deployment?"
If this thing works as advertised, I would want an enormous fleet of Humvees ready to deploy at a moment's notice. Especially in the middle east and Asia, where "rent-a-mobs" are pro forma.
#12
Possibly issues with power sources ... these things probably draw a fair amount of power & for operational deployment you'd want to make sure they can operate without an extension cord LOL
#13
Robert - what makes you think the LLL-schooled journalists ever had any knowledge of science? ;-)
At SOME point they had to have watched some PBS. I can't imagine them skipping the science shows and just watching Ken Burns and Nova.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/09/2004 20:33 Comments ||
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#14
Might be used for torture? Seems like a lighted cigarette butt would be a cheaper way to create a burning sensation. BTW the laws of physics dictate that the intensity is not the same at any distance, even with the high gain antenna, because of spreading. Millimeter waves also experience absorption in the atmosphere. However the range should be farther than bullets.
#16
This is one of those science projects championed by those too far away from the action. The first time this is used, the targets will respond with bullets and RPGs.
This brings us no closer to victory, but sucks up resources that could better be used elsewhere. The $50M would have been better spent on 250K artillery shells or 500M bullets. Or take the money and buy arms for Africans who are undergoing slow genocide.
Posted by: ed ||
06/09/2004 22:41 Comments ||
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Kurdish members of Iraqâs government could resign from their posts in response to the failure of the new UN resolution to recognise Kurdish autonomy, a senior Kurdish minister warned today. The resolution endorses the transfer of sovereignty to Iraqâs newly-formed government by the end of June, while allowing US-led forces to remain in the country. However, it does not endorse Iraqâs interim constitution - agreed in March - which enshrines the principles of federalism and guarantees autonomy for Kurds in three northern Iraqi provinces.
Before the UN vote, the leaders of the two main Kurdish parties - Jalal Talabani, of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, and Massoud Barzani, of the Kurdistan Democratic party - threatened to withdraw Kurdish officials from the interim government unless the federal charter was included in the resolution. Today, the public works minister Nasreen Berwari, one of the Kurdish officials appointed to the new government, said democracy had been "usurped". "If the [Kurdish political] leadership calls on us to withdraw from the government, then we will do so. All the struggles we made last year have been lost," she added. Ms Berwari said she fully supported the position of Mr Talabani and Mr Barzani, adding that the lack of endorsement for the interim constitution was a rejection of all minority rights. "This is not what we fought for, what we committed to and what we sacrificed for - weâre very disappointed in the United States," she told Reuters. She said she and other Kurdish ministers were awaiting word from Kurdish leaders on what action to take, and explained that a decision was expected shortly. "I am standing by my leadership. We will continue to talk - this is not the end - but we really thought that everyone would find it in themselves to recognise the rights laid down in the interim constitution," she said.
However, Iraqâs foreign minister Hoshyar Zebari - the first Kurd to hold the post - said the new resolution included the "spirit" of the interim constitution, even though it made no direct mention of it. Council diplomats said Mr Zebari was told that a reference to the interim constitution would not be included because it would almost certainly cause Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, Iraqâs most powerful Shia cleric, to rescind his support for the resolution. The cleric feared the document would give the Kurds and the Sunni Arabs a veto when a permanent constitution was put to a vote.
Despite the mixed response from some Kurdish politicians, however, other Iraqi leaders and foreign politicians hailed the new resolution. In London, the foreign secretary, Jack Straw, said it was a "significant step" towards a free Iraq. Mr Straw said the resolution set out a clear path to a democratic and stable Iraq, with a sovereign government in place by the end of the month. Speaking at the foreign office, he said: "The people of Iraq have the united support of the whole of the international community as they prepare to take that path to a democratic future." His comments were echoed by the Iraqi prime minister, Ayad Allawi, who sought to play down concerns that the new resolution failed to clarify whether the Iraqi leadership would be able to veto US-led military operations. Mr Allawi told Fox news in an interview, to be aired tonight: "The sovereignty is going to be total, is going to be complete. We ask in fact and we want the ... multinational forces to help us to face the security threats until such a time that we are able to build our own security and move ahead."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:02:48 AM ||
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From the WSJ, one of the very few credible New York area fish wrappers.
The new government is thanking America and Bush. Why are the media silent?
Because it doesn't fit their agenda?
A myth has developed that Iraqis arenât grateful for their liberation from Saddam. So itâs worth noting that the leaders of Iraqâs new interim government have been explicit and gracious in their thanks, not that youâve heard this from the U.S. media. First in Arabic and then in English, Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said in his inaugural address to the Iraqi people last Tuesday that "I would like to record our profound gratitude and appreciation to the U.S.-led international coalition, which has made great sacrifices for the liberation of Iraq." In his own remarks, President Ghazi al-Yawer said: "Before I end my speech, I would like us to remember our martyrs who fell in defense of freedom and honor, as well as our friends who fell in the battle for the liberation of Iraq." Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told the U.N. Security Council much the same thing last Thursday: "We Iraqis are grateful to the coalition who helped liberate us from the persecution of Saddam Husseinâs regime. We thank President Bush and Prime Minister Blair for their dedication and commitment."
Posted by: JerseyMike ||
06/09/2004 9:10:03 AM ||
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#1
Ha! Frogistan's representative must have chugged a whole bottle of pepto after sitting through that. Sweet justice.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/09/2004 10:47 Comments ||
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#2
Naw. The Frogs see them as stooges of the U. S. whom their own clients will throw out at the first chance using the ballot box if possible and AK-47s if not.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
06/09/2004 11:16 Comments ||
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Rebels killed 12 members of an Iraqi security force in a mortar attack in the flashpoint town of Falluja Wednesday, the force said. It was the first time guerrillas have attacked General Mohammed Latifâs Falluja Brigade since it set out to pacify Iraqâs most rebellious town west of Baghdad last month following fierce fighting between U.S. troops and insurgents. Officers in the force told Reuters 10 people were wounded in the attack. Witnesses said the mortar attack hit a camp housing security forces. They said Latif was not in the area at the time and no U.S. forces could be seen. The attack will put Latifâs security forces through their first major test and raise questions over whether the Americans will redeploy their positions closer to the town. U.S. troops are still within striking distance of Falluja but the American military has tried to keep a low profile to give attempts to calm Falluja an Iraqi face. Members of the force said a joint patrol with American troops had been scheduled to pass through Falluja at the time of the attack.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:12:25 AM ||
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#2
There are disputed reports of Marines closing roads into Fallujah. With continued sabotage and terror attacks, apparently based from Fallujah, and with a new govt and a UNSC res, and with the Sadrist insurgency largely burnt out, it seems the time may have arrived to deal with Fallujah.
#3
Let's see if the Fallujah Brigade can hunt down and kill the bad guys now that they've been openly challenged. If they can't, then by the "honor/shame" code that that part of the world claims to live by they will be terminally humiliated and should just slink away. Maybe the Marines will get to clean the place out after all.
The police and the security services killed 22 men from underground illegal armed groups and arrested 36 gunmen in Chechnya over the past month, a representative of the provisional press centre of the Russian Interior Ministry in the Northern Caucasus told Itar-Tass on Wednesday. According to his information, the police exposed 35 crimes of a terrorist character since the beginning of the year. 180 acts of terrorism were prevented on the stage of preparation. 225 people, suspected with a good reason of being members of illegal armed groups, were arrested. 87 members of underground illegal armed groups died during armed clashes, when they tried to offer armed resistance to the police. Aside from it, 81 members of illegal armed groups voluntarily surrendered to the police this year, the provisional press centre reports.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:30:59 AM ||
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#1
I don't think there are any Leahy-like weasels in the Russian senate to criticize "information gathering methods" from the 225 arrested.
The Malian army has chased out the last of a group of Islamic extremists who crossed into the country from northern neighbour Algeria last year, President Amadou Tomani Toure has told reporters. Citing a report from the army, Toure said on Tuesday at a press conference to mark the second anniversary of his election: "For the last three or four days, no more armed Islamic terrorists from the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC) are in northern Mali." The report said the army had "dismantled arms caches" built up by the radical group in Mali, Toure added. The fight to break up Islamic extremist groups in Mali was being waged "in close collaboration with Maliâs neighbours," he said, without giving details.
"I can say no more."
A small group of GSPC fighters crossed into Mali from Algeria about a year ago, when they forced a group of European tourists kidnapped in southeastern Algeria to trek across the desert.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:34:46 AM ||
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An Afghan commander said Wednesday that Afghan and U.S. forces killed more than 70 Pakistanis Taliban rebels in a seven-day operation in a mountainous southern district, including at least 20 militants who died in a single clash. Coalition and Afghan forces returned late Tuesday from the scene of the fighting - the rugged Daychopan district of Zabul province - as the Taliban fighters they had been hunting had either been killed or fled the area, said Jan Mohammed Khan. Khan, who is commander of Afghan forces and also the governor of neighboring Uruzgan province, said 73 Taliban fighters were killed and 13 captured over seven days, while six Afghan government forces and four coalition soldiers were wounded, and none killed. "We have finished our operation against the Taliban," Khan told The Associated Press. U.S. military officials were not immediately available for comment. Previously, officials had reported at least 40 insurgents killed in the past week. Daychopan, a remote area and Taliban stronghold, lies near the borders of two neighboring provinces, Uruzgan and Kandahar, some 190 miles southwest of Kabul. In the latest battle, Khan said that U.S.-led troops backed by jet fighters and helicopters on Tuesday launched an assault on 100 Taliban militants who ambushed a convoy in an area called Sharaboz Kothal. "We collected 21 bodies," Khan said. "The rest ran back into the mountains."
Rather impressive for the 49 dead bodies that ran. Who knew?
Among the dead were two local Taliban commanders, Mullah Jabar and Mullah Jalan. On Wednesday, military spokesman Lt. Col. Tucker Mansager told reporters in Kabul that 20 anti-coalition fighters were killed in what he described as "the latest of several aggressive engagements by the Marines." He said that two Marines and two allied Afghans were wounded - although earlier a Marine spokesman had said five Marines were hurt. Neither official mentioned air strikes. Some 2,000 Marines based in Uruzgan have clashed repeatedly with large bands of militants in the region. Another Taliban commander was killed Tuesday near Musa Qala in Helmand province, some 280 miles southwest of Kabul, said Mohammed Wali, a provincial government spokesman. The commander, Mullah Malik, and another man opened fire on troops who tried to stop their car. Both were killed when the soldiers returned fire, Wali said. Two soldiers were wounded.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:53:36 AM ||
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#1
I love the smell of dead rotting sub-human taliban in the morning,
And the reason they are in that condition is the U. S. Armed Forces and the fact that Afghans refuse to bury talibammed; to show disrespect for those human garbage who imported death, destruction and suffering to their country
Posted by: an dalusian dog ||
06/09/2004 10:31 Comments ||
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#2
There's nothing quite like an American Lashkar.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/09/2004 17:25 Comments ||
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#6
Hmmm. Considering the source, Afghan, I'll divide the number by, oh, 5 to arrive at something close to correct. And we should prolly do that for every one of these stories that isn't quoting a US source. The US quotes don't quote body counts nearly as often...
The Road Map for
A Sovereign Iraq
Our plan for security and democracy after June 30.
BY PAUL WOLFOWITZ
Wednesday, June 9, 2004 12:01 a.m.
After a suicide car bombing killed Iraqi Interim Governing Council President Izzedine Salim and eight others on May 17, one Iraqi put that act of terror into a larger perspective for those who wonder if democracy can work in Iraq. His name is Omar, one of the new Iraqi "bloggers," and he wrote on his Web log: "We cannot . . . protect every single person, including our leaders and the higher officials who make favorite targets for the terrorists--but we can make their attempts go in vain by making our leadership âreplaceable.â "
Exercising his newfound freedom of speech via the Internet, Omar addressed what he sees as the terroristsâ fundamental misunderstanding about where Iraq is going. Terrorists--whether Saddamists or foreigners--"think in the same way their dictator-masters do," failing to grasp that the idea of leadership by an indispensable strongman applies to totalitarian regimes--not democracies.
That understanding of the stability of representative government was confirmed when council member Ghazi Mashal Ajil al-Yawar assumed the Governing Council presidency. This orderly transfer of leadership showed that the rudiments of a democratic process are already at work in Iraq. The hope for a new Iraq, in which freedom is protected by democracy and the rule of law, rests in such processes.
This hopeful vision is what the enemies of a new Iraq fear the most. Fighting on even after the capture of Saddam Hussein last December, the murderers and torturers of his regime and their terrorist allies, with their perverse ideology of evil, have been seeking with death and destruction to prevent the emergence of a new and free Iraq. In a letter that coalition forces intercepted in January, one of the most notorious of these terrorists, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, wrote to his al Qaeda associates in Afghanistan that democracy in Iraq brings the prospect of "suffocation" for the terrorists, the prospect of Iraqis fighting in their own defense. When the army and police are "linked to the inhabitants of this area by kinship, blood and honor," Zarqawi asks, "how can we fight their cousins and their sons and under what pretext after the Americans pull back? . . . Democracy is coming, and there will be no excuse thereafter."
President Bush recently outlined a five-step plan for helping Iraqis move beyond occupation to a fully constitutional government, a government that rejects weapons of mass destruction and terrorism, preserves Iraqâs territorial integrity and lives peacefully with its neighbors. The plan involves five interdependent phases to build Iraqisâ capacity to manage their own affairs successfully.
More at link
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
06/09/2004 10:03:29 AM ||
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The relevant blogs have probably already noticed; here's Omar's, shared with Mohammed and Ali: http://www.iraqthemodel.com
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
06/09/2004 14:03 Comments ||
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Maulana Ilyas Kahsmiri, the chief of the Harkatul Jihad Islami 313 Brigade and one of main suspects for carrying out one of the two suicide attacks on Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf last year, was released here Tuesday. He was detained and questioned for nearly six months, before the authorities failed to find any concrete proof against him. "The government finally give a clean chit to Maulana Kashmiri after six months of questioning and released him after it failed to find any proof of his involvement in the suicide attack on President General Pervez Musharraf," the Daily Times quoted government sources as saying. They added: "Intelligence agencies detained him to verify his involvement in the suicide attack on the president in Rawalpindi on December 25, 2003." The sources further said another reason for Kashmiriâs arrest was the doubts that intelligence agencies had that he had links with Al Qaeda. "But no evidence was found of his involvement in any terrorist activity or his links with Al Qaeda," they added.
I'm sure we'll hear from him again.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:07:54 AM ||
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It is early morning and a man in his early thirties is beating a beautifully decorated drum in an open field in Wana, main town of Pakistanâs South Waziristan tribal region. He is playing the drum as loud as possible. The intention is to let people know proceedings have begun. Soon men of all ages with guns hanging from their shoulders start gathering around him. A few of the young lose control and start dancing to the drums.
"Get down and boogie!"
The occasion looks festive, but it definitely is not. The tradition of beating drums is as old as the Pathan race that lives in this part of the world. The drum is known locally as the "dhol" and in tribal tradition its beating announces a danger or emergency. The Pathans in this area are considered a warrior race, so the Lashkar is an inseparable part of their life. Lashkar is a Pashto language word meaning a group of men raised to fight a war against a common enemy. The term can be applied to both a dozen men going to a nearby village to exact revenge or to the thousands who poured into the Kashmir valley in 1947-48 to wrest it from Indian control. Historians say the drum became an integral part of the Lashkar as a tool of communication. "In the absence of modern means of communication it is used to gather people and declare war but also as a means of entertainment for volunteers," says Hazrat Khan, a tribal writer from the Mohmand tribal region. "It is also useful in raising the soldiersâ morale to make them fight better." A 4,000-strong Lashkar has for the past few days been searching for al-Qaeda suspects in South Waziristanâs remote Shakai area. They have yet to catch any.
And today when the fighting started, they took off.
Much to the dislike of US forces in neighbouring Afghanistan, the Pakistani government has set two conditions for the tribesmen to clear their area of al-Qaeda suspects - either arrest them or make them leave the area. The problem is that the al-Qaeda and Taleban militants enjoy a good deal of tribal support. Consequently, some argue that it seems odd to use loud drums to lead a Lashkar for a surprise raid on al-Qaeda suspects. An expert on tribal traditions, Raj Wali Khattak, says: "Itâs not clear why they are using the drums in these searches. "No doubt it is a tradition but now politics have also crept in. Maybe the tribesmen donât want to arrest the militants. Their policy might be only to let them clear the area."
Bingo, we have a winner.
"Form up the Lashkar Honor Guardâ¢! We have to provide an escort!"
But a tribal elder, who preferred not to be named, defended the use of the drums, saying they were a long-standing tradition. "A Lashkar without dhol is incomplete."
"It's like having a wedding without automatic weapons"
"In the present circumstances, itâs even more necessary. Making 4,000 people gather and then conducting them is not an easy task in our under-developed areas."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/09/2004 9:06:07 AM ||
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#1
Do the Lashkar drums have like pictures or nic names on them? You known like biggest boom in dixie.
#3
Making 4,000 people gather and then conducting them is not an easy task in our under-developed areas." Please send us money. And some Toyota trucks.
Posted by: remote man ||
06/09/2004 12:38 Comments ||
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#4
**boom diddie boom diddie boom boom boom**
"Osama, did you hear something?"
"Just the leftover throbbing in my ears from Tora
Bora."
**boom diddie boom diddie boom boom boom**
"I heard it again, Osama. Those are drums! We must flee!!"
"Forget it Ahmed. Its just another one of those rowdy Lashkar dhol happenings. We have at least 6 hours before they finished making their racket and get underway. Besides, its only a show for Perv and the Great Satanists. Give me 4 hours of sleep and I will be refreshed and ready to go."
"Well, they sure scare me, Osama."
"Just go back to sleep. Nothing to worry about. They have been doing this dhol nonsense since Christ was a corporal."
"Hokay, good night."
"'night."
**boom diddie boom diddie boom boom boom**
**boom diddie boom diddie boom boom boom**
**boom diddie boom diddie boom boom boom**
**boom diddie boom diddie boom boom boom**
Posted by: Alaska Paul in Chefornak ||
06/09/2004 14:43 Comments ||
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From Jihad Unspun
Between 500 and 800 suspected Taliban fighters under the command of a notorious commander are engaged in bloody clashes with Afghan and US-led forces, officials said. Intelligence and military officials told AFP that the Mujahideen are loyal to one of the ousted Talibanâs leaders, Mullah Dadullah, a close lieutenant of the movementâs fugitive founder, Mullah Mohammed Omar. "We believe that Mullah Dadullah has some 500 to 800 men under his command who are mainly operating in the Deh Chopan areas," of Zabul, Kandaharâs intelligence chief Abdullah Laghmanai told AFP. "Most of the attacks were carried out by Mullah Dadullahâs men," he said in reference to this weekâs fierce firefights.
The fighting occurred as the marines and Afghan soldiers approached an area identified as a likely ambush site near to the marinesâ base in Tarin Kowt, Uruzgan province some 410 kilometres southwest of Kabul. Five marines, an Afghan soldier and an interpreter were wounded during the fighting while four Taliban were detained. .... The weekâs violence began with Mujahideen engaging government and US-led troops last Wednesday in Kandaharâs Mian Shin district near Deh Chopan. That incident has been followed up with almost daily attacks.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/09/2004 9:00:08 AM ||
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A force that large requires logistical support. Wonder where it's coming from? Forget it. I just noticed this 'information' is from Jihad Unspun.
So, Mullah Dadulla's force is probably more like 5 to 8 riflemen.
#3
Mullah Dadullah has some 500 to 800 men under his command . Mullah D. is probably delusional. Too much time hanging around the poppy fields.
#1-GK So, Mullah Dadulla's force is probably more like 5 to 8 riflemen. YES! Along with 10-20 sheep and goat hangers on.
#2-AHM engaged in bloody clashes The favorite goat was shot. Oh well, they have meat for dinner.
If there were 500-800: Boys; Put in the ear plugs and stand back. Here comes Mr. JDam!
At least seven militants were killed Wednesday in a gunbattle with the Pakistani army in a tense border region where hundreds of al-Qaida militants are suspected to be hiding, officials said. A mix of foreigners and local tribesmen were holed up in four fortress-like houses and were trading fire with soldiers in a mountainous area of South Waziristan about 25 miles from the Afghan frontier. Brig. Mahmood Shah, chief of security for Pakistan's tribal regions, said the dead militants were foreigners. Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan confirmed that the military had recovered three bodies and they "appeared to be foreigners." Pakistan's tribal areas bordering Afghanistan are believed to be a possible hideout for Osama bin Laden and his chief aide, Ayman al-Zawahiri.
Assuming Binny is alive, that is.
Sultan said the military had suffered some casualties in the latest fighting, but refused to give details before the operation was over in the Ghat Ghar area, about 20 miles west of Wana, the main town in South Waziristan. Residents in the area fear a repeat of an army offensive in March - the largest since Pakistan joined the U.S.-led war on terrorism in late 2001 - that killed more than 120 people, including nearly 50 soldiers. Hundreds of Central Asian, Arab and Afghan fighters believed linked to al-Qaida escaped the sweep and remain at large. A 4,000-strong tribal force charged with weeding out foreign militants from South Waziristan abruptly ended a vain, three-day hunt as the hostilities began.
"Hey, we just signed on to look for them. Nobody said anything about fighting those guys, we're going home."
Early Wednesday, assailants fired rockets and mortars at troops at two military checkpoints. Pakistani forces returned fire, and soldiers were sent to areas that appeared to be the source of the hostile fire. "Both sides are using mortars and heavy weapons. A heavy exchange of fire is going on," Shah told The Associated Press in the northwestern city of Peshawar. "According to our information, eight people have been killed." "Many of the militants are foreigners, but some locals are also with them," Shah said. "They are heavily armed. They have occupied these houses with force." He said the houses belonged to Nanokhel tribesmen. Sultan said that one injured militant had been captured, but could give no details about his nationality or identity. The army has previously warned that it could launch a military operation on "short notice" unless foreign militants hiding in South Waziristan surrender to Pakistani authorities.
Guess they didn't believe you'd really do it, I sure didn't.
Shah said Pakistani forces had surrounded an area stretching 10 miles between the two military checkposts that had come under fire. "This operation will continue until these people are eliminated," he said. In a bid to pressure tribesmen to get foreign militants to surrender - which the government says was part of a deal to end the bloody March operation - the military has recently imposed economic penalties, blocking roads to Wana and closing the local bazaar. The government had offered foreign militants amnesty if they registered with local authorities and respected Pakistan's laws. None has accepted. On Tuesday, the government gave the local Yargul Khel tribe 24 hours to hand over four elders, including Nek Mohammed, a former Taliban fighter who fought the army in the March operation, then agreed to cooperate with authorities. The government says he was supposed to arrange the registration of foreign militants. Mohammed claims they've left the tribe's territory and fled to unknown areas, a claim the government disputes. Officials say that if the Yargul Khel fails to hand over Mohammed, other tribal leaders would face arrest and their property could be confiscated or demolished.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/09/2004 9:00:11 AM ||
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They're holed up in four houses, with mortars being used.
Neither side appears capable of hitting the broad side of a barn at 20 paces...
WANA: Militants and troops exchanged fire in a remote mountainous region near Afghanistan today where authorities have been trying to flush out hundreds of foreign extremists. Local residents said they heard heavy firing overnight in the Turampul area, northeast of Wana town, which continued today. "The sound of loud explosions and gunfire could be heard in the Wana town," a resident of told Reuters. "Authorities have blocked roads leading toward Turampul." Military spokesman Shaukat Sultan said security forces had responded to fire of "miscreants and terrorists" but had not launched any fresh operation against the militants.
Update:
WANA: At least eight foreign militants were killed by troops in Wana, a security official said. Militants and troops exchanged fire in the area today, residents said earlier. The bodies of eight militants had been spotted near the town of Wana, Brigadier Mehmood Shah, head of security in the tribal region, told Reuters. He did not say how he knew the dead were foreigners.
Damm, that meter does work.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/09/2004 8:35:07 AM ||
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The bodies of eight militants had been spotted
Right. I'll bet the surrounded corpse make a clean if smelly get away.
Yasser Arafat told Egyptâs President Hosni Mubarak yesterday he will accept Egyptian demands for Palestinian security reforms, but the PLO leader would not agree to step down or move to another Arab country as he was asked to, Palestinian sources tell WND. However, Mubarak immediately responded that Arafatâs reply is not sufficient.
This exchange comes one week after Egyptian Intelligence Chief Gen. Omar Suleiman met privately with Arafat to demand that he turn over control of all security forces to Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei, and give Qurei complete authority to conduct negotiations with Israel over Sharonâs unilateral disengagement plan. Suleiman reportedly told the aging PLO leader he had until June 15 to relent, or else his future would be "left in the hands of Ariel Sharon."
Palestinian officials would not divulge what kinds of reforms Arafat claimed he would accept in his reply, just that Arafat agreed to allow an Egyptian role in Gaza after an Israeli pullout. One source close to Arafat said the PLO leader wrote a very general letter, and also made it clear that he had no intention of stepping down, assuming a more symbolic role, or accepting deportation to another Arab country. But Mubarak immediately instructed his ministers to tell Palestinian and Israeli officials that Arafatâs letter was not sufficient and that a more specific letter, one accepting all of Egyptâsâ demands and detailing an exact reform plan, was needed.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/09/2004 4:04:54 AM ||
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methinks the plan is working - slowly marginalize Arafat, while increasing the role of Egypt and Jordan.
#2
Palestinian officials would not divulge what kinds of reforms Arafat claimed he would accept in his reply, just that Arafat agreed to allow an Egyptian role in Gaza after an Israeli pullout.
If Arafart is true to form, what he's agreed to is just enough to generate a little interest, but not enough to make a real difference.
From The Washington Post, an opinon article by Daniel Serwer, director of peace and stability operations at the United States Institute of Peace.
.... The ultimate option is to throw Iraq away. The polls show that Iraqis oppose the occupation. We could set a date certain for withdrawal. Whatâs wrong with that?
Plenty. I have recently returned from Baghdad, where the U.S. Institute of Peace conducted a workshop on facilitating inter-ethnic dialogue for 45 provincial government and civil society leaders. They came from the north-central governorates of Iraq, where the bulk of its mixed population of Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds, Christians, Turkomen, Yezidi and others have lived side by side for generations: from the contested oil-rich city of Kirkuk, from Saddam Husseinâs hometown of Tikrit, from the Sunni stronghold of Fallujah, from the central Iraqi city of Baqubah and from the metropolis of Baghdad. Some were Islamists, some secularists. Some had resisted Hussein, but at least two fought in the Iraqi army against the Americans. ....
Polls do not capture the complicated and sometimes confusing ideas and emotions of these Iraqis. They are not all enthusiasts for the Americans. A few even think the daily violence is an American plot to allow the coalition to strengthen its hold on the country. But at the same time these Iraqis want to play a role in making their country secure, democratic and prosperous. They want the intervention to succeed in producing a new Iraq. Despite their diversity, Iraqis share a common enemy -- the Hussein regime, which still lives in their mindsâ eye -- and a common purpose: to overcome their past and create a better future.
There are many more Iraqis like those I have met. A core of courageous activists is creating civil society in Iraq. One thousand nongovernmental organizations have officially registered. More than 2,000 Iraqis applied for seven high-risk positions on the electoral commission. To be sure, jobs are scarce, but in the midst of concerted violence it is more than the need for a paycheck that inspires Iraqis to apply.
What happens if the intervention fails, or if the United States withdraws prematurely on a schedule determined by Washingtonâs requirements? Iraqis who want a peaceful, democratic country will be in mortal danger. Iraq will sink into chaos, civil war or renewed authoritarianism. .... The mistakes the United States has made in Iraq should not lead us into one more even greater error, forced by the dynamic of our own election campaign rather than by the ripeness of the situation on the ground in Iraq. Even if you think the war was wrong, the peace should still be right. Success in the effort to give Iraqis a chance to build a free society will set back extremism in the Muslim world and be a major step in the right direction for the Middle East.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/09/2004 6:23:10 AM ||
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Daniel Serwer, director of peace and stability operations at the United States Institute of Peace.
Nice work if you can get it.
I got five bucks that sez this guy doesn't have to buy a woman a single round at a bar.
#6
#5 Absolutely. I was out to dinner with a die hard liberal the other night and he too echoes what this guy says. Which is why Kerry, who sucks, also has no choice: his own supporters (those who continue to have working brains) want us to stay because they also see the obvious dangers of running away.
It's also fascinating that there is indeed a point of consensus around Iraq. I find this very encouraging...and I'm glad that a peacenik has finally seen some of the light.
From The New York Times
Iyad Allawi, now the designated prime minister of Iraq, ran an exile organization intent on deposing Saddam Hussein that sent agents into Baghdad in the early 1990âs to plant bombs and sabotage government facilities under the direction of the C.I.A., several former intelligence officials say. Dr. Allawiâs group, the Iraqi National Accord, used car bombs and other explosive devices smuggled into Baghdad from northern Iraq, the officials said. .... the former officials said their recollections were in many cases sketchy [and] ... could not even recall exactly when it occurred, though the interviews made it clear it was between 1992 and 1995. I thought we paid our intelligence officials good money to keep secrets, but now I suppose I must be mistaken about that.
The Iraqi government at the time claimed that the bombs, including one it said exploded in a movie theater, resulted in many civilian casualties. .... One former Central Intelligence Agency officer who was based in the region, Robert Baer, recalled that a bombing during that period "blew up a school bus; schoolchildren were killed." Mr. Baer, a critic of the Iraq war, said he did not recall which resistance group might have set off that bomb. Other former intelligence officials said Dr. Allawiâs organization was the only resistance group involved in bombings and sabotage at that time. ...
The C.I.A. recruited Dr. Allawi in 1992, former intelligence officials said. .... In 1991, Dr. Allawi was associated with a former Iraqi official, Salih Omar Ali al-Tikriti, whom the United States viewed as unsavory. He and Dr. Allawi founded the Iraqi National Accord in 1990. Both were former supporters of the Iraqi government. Some intelligence officials have also suggested that Dr. Allawi, while he was still a member of the ruling Baath Party in the early 1970âs, may have spied on Iraqi students studying in London. Mr. Tikriti was said to have supervised public hangings in Baghdad. The former officials said the C.I.A. would not work with Dr. Allawi until he severed his relationship with Mr. Tikriti, which he did in 1992. ....
The bombing and sabotage campaign, the former senior intelligence official said, "was a test more than anything else, to demonstrate capability." Another former intelligence officer who was involved in Iraqi affairs recalled that the bombings "were an option we considered and used." Dr. Allawiâs group was used, he added, "because Chalabi never had any sort of internal organization that could carry it out," adding, "We would never have asked him to carry out sabotage." What we are seeing here is the Chalabi supporters in the US Intelligence Community biting back and smearing the Allawai supporters.
.... In 1996, Amneh al-Khadami, who described himself as the chief bomb maker for the Iraqi National Accord and as being based in Sulaimaniya, in northern Iraq, recorded a videotape in which he talked of the bombing campaign and complained that he was being shortchanged money and supplies. Two former intelligence officers confirmed the existence of the videotape. Mr. Khadami said that "we blew up a car, and we were supposed to get $2,000" but got only $1,000, according to an account in the British newspaper The Independent in 1997. The newspaper had obtained a copy of the tape. .... I have a premonition that the Arab media will have a field day with this.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/09/2004 5:47:15 AM ||
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that the NYT is highlighting this shows how threatened they feel by the Allawi govt.
Note the tactics - attack him for old Baath connections - how long has the NYT told us that Chalabis problems were that he had no contacts in the old regime, and thatdebaathification was isolating Sunni Arabs and laying the grounds for civil war?
And car bombings - with the implication that civilians were killed - the only case where even the old regime (reliable source?) claimed civilian casualties, they can connect to Allawi only by innuendo.
#2
When will Baer and the rest of the "former intelligence officers" STFU? I'm sick of stories citing the same five named former CIA guys, including Baer, and numerous other unnamed intelligence officials. Isn't there something in their original employment agreements that requires them to button their lips?
Posted by: Tibor ||
06/09/2004 11:04 Comments ||
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#1
I know Wretchard is popular here, but I find I diagree with him most often or not. The thrust of this piece is that the USA needs a plan and that presumes a some definable end state.
This is the war metaphor taken to its logical conclusion - what constitutes victory?
While I use the term WoT, I know this is not a war in the conventional sense. There is no defineable end state we can call victory. This is (will be) a protracted battle over who gets to make the future. There are broadly two sides. One side is the many forms of utopianism, whether it be marxist derived socialissm or a sharia ruled world. The other side I'll broadly define as Utilitarian - people who don't know what the future will look like, but are confident we can improve on the present.
Perhaps it was always thus. And this is why Iraq is so important. If it results in a state that is clearly superior than the pre-war one, and continues to improve itself it becomes a powerful advertisement for the 'Utilitarian' approach.
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/09/2004 6:02 Comments ||
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#2
I agree, Phil. This will be a long, drawn-out and ambiguous process. Those of us who know how much is at stake (and who are against the Islamofascist side) will need great perserverance and patience.
I think you're right that we cannot know what the future will/should look like, except for some central principles: we will not tolerate the export of terror, we will not tolerate extending tyranny over peoples in the the name of religion (or any other ideology) and we support the aspirations of people around the world to prosperity, freedom and self-determination.
Beyond that, it is a serious mistake to try to dictate the details too closely. Economic markets are not perfect, but if left unrigged they do a better job than any other mechanism of fostering innovation and prosperity. Ditto for the future of peoples and cultures -- set them free, support them in their transition, and what will emerge will eventually benefit us all.
#3
I'm curious, do RBers see a "victory" in the WoT including rolling back some or all layers of PC idiocy that we endure now - with more piling up every day?
Examples: It occurs in the UK, but the post about the Schools 'failing' Muslim children. Or the Hamtramck, MI call to prayers on loudspeakers.
The changes being imposed by LLL judges, insane City Councils, etc. are accumulating and are cumulative. Has anyone considered this aspect? Perhaps a mandatory review of any law, ruling or ordinance passed since 9/11/2001 as a starting point? Just an example idea. I think this matters.
No idea to any of your questions. It is impossible in a working democratic framework the US operates under if any of what you mention takes place.
However, having said all that,let me say we have two or three more elections over the next six years,which appear to be the total immolation of the left as a political force in American life.
2004 is really not going to be much of a political watershed,in spite of what the meda will try to tell everyone; it is a continuation of a process of deconstructing the the left that began in 1994 and is accelerating. 2004 will be known for its severity in punishing leftists/liberals politically for their views and all the crappy things they said about America in time of war.
In time, this force will eventually drag under Big Media (including Hollywood, and despite his massive pundage, Michael Whore Moore). I think in time the political force will make an old fashion tent revival look like a Runway show at a drag queen festival it will be so profound.
The politicians who see this coming and give it the swath it will utilmately take, will be running the show in the national level in about fifteen years. Those who don't, who knows? Imprisoned for sedition? I dunno.
#5
did victory in WW2 include passing national health insurance, or nationalizing the steel industry - probably to some new dealers it did. I would say they were wrong. We in America disagree about many aspects of economic and social policy - thats DEMOCRACY, the very way of life we are defending against Salfists and Baathists. You dont like what your city council does, GO VOTE - ORGANIZE - CHANGE IT!. Now some of us as individuals may see a connection between what we do domestically and what we do in the WOT - some will see a campaign against say, bilingualism as based on the same values they fought for in the WOT. Just as some fought against segregation based on the same values they fought for in WW2. But some will disagree and quotas, and STILL be on the same side in the WOT - just as some southerners were on the other side on segregation, yet fought on THE SAME SIDE in WW2. Disagreeing with liberalism didnt make you a Nazi. Disagreeing with conservatism doesnt make you a terrorist, a jihadi, or a Baathist. Just as disagreeing with the govt of Saudi Arabia doesnt make you a Zionist.
#6
Phil and rkb, well said. Wretchard often provides intelligent commentary -- especially in comparison to the drivel that passes for analysis almost everywhere these days -- but in this case he's over-reached a bit. I think Phil's broad categories are far more reasonable than Wretchard's very narrow and specific metrics for assessing progress in the conflict. Put in very simple terms, there are many ways to skin a cat, and getting the critter skinned is more important than the particular way it's done.
The Wretchard piece represents a very mild example of a pandemic intellectual malady in foreign policy and defense circles that's raged for years. The conceit of perfectionism, the implicit assumption that events in the real world can be scripted in detail, and not just influenced in usually broad fashion, using odds and common sense as guides. The disease is particularly virulent in its retrospective form -- for example, looking back and casually declaring (mostly in demonstrably false ways) that "mistakes" made by the US in Iraq account for the challenges there, as if the task isn't difficult and as if setbacks and innovation aren't the norm.
Wretchard offers the more rare case of the prospective form of the disease -- trying to set unrealistically narrow and specific objectives when in fact the objective must remain broad (Phil's dichotomy of the forces at work) while the tactics and strategy to achieve it must remain flexible and innovative. In defense of Wretchard's exercise, however, it must be noted that it involves a sincere intellectual effort to help crack a problem, and not superficial second-guessing or cheap shots directed at judgement calls made the unavoidable way (under fire, with inadequate information, amidst uncooperative verging-on-idiotic behavior by select foreign players).
#7
the principle problem i have with wretchards metrics, is that they are intrinsically secret. They are, for obvious reasons, not things that can be discussed by the admin in public. For all we know the admin IS using them, or some subset of them.
But again, wretchard continues to be sincere and interesting.
#8
.com, re your question on accumulating PC idiocy. Nobody loathes PCery more than me, but I don't think that is the root problem.
I used to worry about the problem of accumlating laws a lot. To me it seemed to be a fatal flaw in the whole rule of law system. Over time they accumulate and they become like fine sand in an engine. Eventually it will seize. More laws means more resources dedicated to enforcing laws. I.e. the problem is more and more laws, not what those laws mandate.
An analogy is that in order to achieve modern telecommunications we had to get rid of telephone operators. We face a similar problem with laws and lawyers.
FWIIW, for a while I advocated a finite number of laws. Pass a new law and you had to retire an old one. I believe this was tried somewhere, but I can't recall the place.
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/09/2004 18:19 Comments ||
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#9
Liberalhawk: did victory in WW2 include passing national health insurance, or nationalizing the steel industry - probably to some new dealers it did.
I see where you're coming from, but I think you're partly wrong. I am in the oilfield, and I'm sort-of perturbed at the way it's roughly three years on since the attacks, and we still haven't done anything to increace oil drilling here. Or about how alternate energy research is only "OK" as long as it isn't going to produce results (like the proposed wind farm off of Nantucket).
According to most people I've talked to, it would take about three years from the word "go" to actually produce oil from a large project like in ANWR. But at the moment, a lot of offshore assets are being moved from Alaska to Sakhalin Island.
(Also, figuring out a way to _use_ all the natural gas on the north slope in already-explored areas seems to me to be a no-brainer).
This is less of a "philosophical conservatism" thing than a "we need to get our ass in gear" thing, to me.
Although if you want to bring up a philosophical issue, look at the lack of progress in arming pilots.
(Anyway, I gotta go, I'm late, I'll be back later...)
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
06/09/2004 19:45 Comments ||
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#10
.com - the answer to PC thuggery is perspective. We temporarily had that after 9/11. When someone is actively procuring nuke/chem/bio weapons to kill A LOT OF US, whether there's a cross on a seal of a county that might not exist tomorrow, make's the ACLU and PC pointy-headed fools look mighty small. Not enough of us get that, but it'll come, and on that day Ramona better be at her best cuz she'll not get sympathy from the rest....activist civil rights attorneys will find their real place on the social ladder
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/09/2004 20:07 Comments ||
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#12
Amen, TGA. As a Nevada resident, at least temporarily, I think I'll have a go at emailing these total fucking morons (who work for me) for publicizing such specs. Totally Unnecessary and Unbelievable.
#14
Done - both to the idiots that run the site and, following Internet Hagenah's link, the Governor - who I told I would simply vote AGAINST every incumbent on my ballot and that, as the State Chief Exec, I expected him to DO something about it. I think he'll get the message.
Now I'm going to send the link and info to the local Las Vegas newspapers - and mention that Guinn & Co should be summarily fired for such stupidity.
TGA, you rock, bro - plz don't stay away so much! I still have issues with Fischer (I read his speech at the 40th Munich Security Conference!) but you always broaden the discussion and bring a unique perspective. And plz don't let us put you off through our ignorance! You know we love ya!!!
#15
Nevada huh, .com? I'll be there next month, especially at the end - a week at Tahoe, along with stops at relatives in Fallon, Fernley, and Carson City
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/09/2004 21:15 Comments ||
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#16
I may be moving up that way soon, prolly only about 10% chance, but probably heading back to either Del Mar or somewhere in Texas. I'm bored - so not ready to retire - and the work is elsewhere. Not much web app dev going on here - I'm sure less in Reno / CC. And it's hot here and reminds me too much of the shithole - I want GREEN and COOL. Lol!
#17
.com, I hope you realize, Texas isn't cool, at least not temperature-wise.
(Although I'm in Louisiana... I've thought of moving to Texas to get out of the heat).
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
06/10/2004 0:17 Comments ||
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#18
Phil - There are a few places, like the Hill Country or around Lake Buchanon (IIRC), that might not be too bad. I've hung out in Texas about 25 yrs, all told. Born in Foat Wuth.
I'd like to go up to the NW, but both Oregon and Washington seem to have a high percentage of stupidity and general looniness. If I knew anyone (any non-idiotarian, that is, heh) in the far NW corner who could advise me, I would prefer that climate. Just South of Vancouver, maybe. I like rain and green and cool - cold, but I don't wanna hafta dodge trigger-happy pot-growers or LLL zipperheads. Sigh. Know anyone up there? :-)
A new video of an attack on a Humvee has been posted to Jihadist website with the brief message telling readers to "Enjoy [savor] the killing of the infidels in Iraq." A copy of this video can be seen by clicking here.
NOTE: These materials are for informational purposes only and may not be copied, reproduced, or transmitted without the explicit permission of the SITE Institute nor without specific attribution to the SITE Institute.
Posted by: tipper ||
06/09/2004 1:52:32 AM ||
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#1
What's the SITE Institute?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
06/09/2004 2:31 Comments ||
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#2
Dammit. Give me my rifle. Uncle Sam, I am not too old to go snipe little cheapshotting bastards like the ones who set off these bombs. Only difference is that it might take me 2 shots insted of 1. A 338 Lapua and some extraction is all we would need. Its all we ever needed back in the day.
Or let me show them how you really set booby traps.
Be a lot of the f**king muj and their families hobbling around missing limbs and eyes if you let me or the guys currently trained and set for ops loose on these packs of jackals. Bouncin bettys work really well for Muj birth control.
#6
Howard--is that sarcasm? If so, it needs to be tagged as such. I can't believe you'd advocate mimicking the SS.
Posted by: Dar ||
06/09/2004 13:20 Comments ||
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#7
Yes, irony am afraid. However, this is probably the reason we didn't stay in Fallujah ie the political ramifications of razing it.
Remember Lidice http://www.zchor.org/lidice1.htm
Grandad said they were by far the toughest he met tho'
Posted by: Howard UK ||
06/09/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#8
Damn--I'd heard of the Heydrich assassination reprisals but hadn't heard of Lidice. I'm surprised they write that the reprisals suppressed Czech enthusiasm for resistance. I'd have thought just the opposite.
Posted by: Dar ||
06/09/2004 13:54 Comments ||
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#9
And the locals stand by while RSBs are planted, and RPGs are set up for launching. Therefore: screw the locals. Bomb the jihad out of these pigs.
I know a couple of Chicago police detectives who could solve this problem.
The sobbing parents of two Pakistani girls, one only two-years-old, appealed yesterday for the men accused of raping their daughters to be tried by an anti-terrorism court and slammed the government for neglecting the case. Manir Masih, the father of the two-year-old and Parveen Barkat, mother of the seven-year-old victim, faced a press conference in Islamabad to recount the attacks on their daughters and the threats their families received from the men they accused of rape.
Masih said his daughter was raped on April 6 near their home in the rural Punjab town of Gujranwala. He discovered her lying covered in blood and saw a man, identified as Hussein, fleeing from the scene. âWhen I saw her covered in blood, I lost my mind,â he told reporters. Doctors have said the toddler must undergo six separate surgical operations to repair severe genital and bowel injuries, Christian rights activist Shahbaz Bhatti told the press conference. Husseinâs family was now threatening to kill Masih and his relatives unless they drop charges. âIf the beast is not tried in a terrorism court and given due punishment, I along with my four children and wife will immolate ourselves in front of parliament,â Masih said. Parveen Barkat said her seven-year-old daughter was raped on May 29 in eastern city of Lahore. The family of the accused man was pressuring her husband to withdraw charges. âMy young child has been raped, my husband is sick and confined to bed for the last six years, I do not know what to do,â Barkat told AFP.
Bhatti said the government had âdone nothingâ about the rape of the infant girls. âWe raised this issue in the Punjab assembly but government as usual gave deaf ear, neglected and ignored these brutal incidents of rape of two minor Christian girlsâ Bhatti said. He said 46 Christian girls were raped in 2003 but have not received justice yet. Bhatti asked Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf to declare the rape of the two girls an act of terrorism.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
06/09/2004 1:37:54 AM ||
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#1
At first I was skeptical solely of using an antiterrorism court for a rape case, but after seeing the result of it not going to court, it looks like the Hussein family is no better than the mob here -- terrorists, the lot of them. Treat them like it.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
06/09/2004 6:26 Comments ||
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#2
Terrorism court is absolutely appropriate for these rapes, which are indeed intended to terrorize Christians in the name of Islam.
#3
In case you think this is an isolated incident, it's not. It seems to be widespread tactic. widespread rapes by moslems of christian girls is one of the reasons why so many christians (perhaps as many as 80%) have left the paleo terrortories.
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/09/2004 8:29 Comments ||
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#4
Thank you for posting this TS. It was my first priority this morning to get this posted here at Rantburg if it wasn't already up. I'm hoping Fred will place the article's picture in this thread so people will see how small these children are.
As always, amidst the many voices crying about Islamic persecution not a hair is turned on the Arab street by this horrendous religious persecution.
We have already seen enough panchayat ordered gang rapes in Pakistan to know that violent sexual assault is a tool of enforcing political and religious will. This is just another rather highly conspicuous button on the coat in how Islam is invalidating itself as a religion.
Hell will freeze over before any fatwas are issued regarding this crime.
#5
We should offer asylum to each and every Arab and Pakistani Christian family. I'm serious. They sound like decent enough people, they'd fit in like every other immigrant family in our country, and their kids and grandkids would grow up to be solid Americans.
We've taken in Vietnamese, Hmong, Haitian, Dominican, and Salvadoran refugess the last couple of decades after various catasptrophes in their countries. We're big enough and good enough to do this.
And I'd love to see the Arab Muslim reaction.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/09/2004 10:40 Comments ||
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#6
Rape of French Christians by muslim men is increasing and has gained the attention of the French government.
Posted by: Jawa ||
06/09/2004 10:53 Comments ||
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#7
Since Islam is so fond of beheading, I can think of an appropriate punishment for these monsters AND their extended families (gotta get into the Islamic spirit here).
Posted by: Random thoughts ||
06/09/2004 11:43 Comments ||
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#8
Invalidation complete for me Zenster. A global force united to the mind doping of man and forcibly (deadly force) of maintaining that control.
#9
Rather interesting. I tried a Google search for "fatwas against rape" and got notonesinglehit. It is exactly this lack of outcry from central Islamic authorities, as with the mass rapes in Darfur, that serve as a solid indictment regarding Islam's moral decay.
Since it is the jihadists that envision global sharia law, I now advocate the elimination by force of all religious theocracies around the world. I regard elected representation as a fundamental human right.
Any country seeking to impose theocratic rule can be reduced to smoking ruins (or glass) and I shall not weep. Our world has come too far and with such enormous loss of life in defense of these dearly won liberties where I can no longer tolerate the least advocating of theocracy.
Those who are unable to cease stressing the supremacy of their particular flavor of worship can go straight to hell, not collect $200 or pass Go.
#10
Sickening. The rapists deserve another kind of "beheading".
The following is in no way intended as a slam against the parents of these poor little kids-my heart goes out to them unequivocally-but have you noticed how in that part of the world words are adopted and used with no attention whatsoever to their meaning? I will watch the news and see administration officials using the word terrorist, then the people over there try to use it, or using the word barbarian, and then they use it, too.
#13
You know in most Muslim countries rape is rampant, when you need 4 male 'pious muslims' to convict, and if not, the victim is sentenced to death or 100 lashes, I'd wager that rape is not reported very often. So men rape with impunity.
I bet almost every woman in Muslim lands has been raped.
(Not to mention if a woman resists, the man can always resort to threatning to report her for blasphemy, especially if she is a Christian and of course the good ol' honor killing for Muslim girls)
What these poor women and girls must go through, it's a travesty.
And I don't care what any Muslim says, these laws are wrong and sick, and if you don't see it you are sick too, and an accomplice in suffering of enormous porportions.
And all the liberals that aid an abet this kind of thing in the name of 'multi-culturalism', you are an accomplice too and don't think you can wash your hands clean at the alter of PC. You cant!
#15
Oh but you see, that two year old girl must have worn her nappies in a sort of... well...
And the 7 year old already was in a nubile age (ask the prophet).
#16
According to Khomenei, 2 years is old enough to sodomize. Besides it was a Christian infidel. Allah will reward him bonus virgins in heaven.
Posted by: ed ||
06/09/2004 22:07 Comments ||
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#17
Is this a good place to tell Donna's (a nurse friend of mine from SA) story about the Imam who came into the Aramco clinic after a trip abroad to Egypt (I think it was) and was found (without the clinic actually intending to do so - it was a broad spectrum test of some kind which indicated further testing needed) to have raging Syphilis and said that was impossible because he was a Holy Man and refused to allow his wife and daughter to be tested but they were tested without his knowledge under other pretenses and BOTH were positive? Oh, I guess I sorta did. Good.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraq's two main Kurdish parties have hinted that they might not participate in the new government if a U.N. resolution on Iraq failed to endorse a constitution. But U.N. officials were hopeful the Kurds would accept the measure adopted late Tuesday. The resolution makes no mention of the Transitional Administration Law, which will serve as Iraq's temporary constitution after the new interim government takes power on June 30 and until a new constitution is written and approved in a referendum late next year.
The Kurdish demands were contained in a letter Sunday from Jalal Talabani of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and Massoud Barzani of the Kurdistan Democratic Party to the United Nations. The country's leading Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani, had warned of trouble if the Security Council gave any legitimacy to the interim charter, adopted in March.
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan threw his support behind the U.S.-British backed resolution. ``It doesn't say anything about the administrative law but it does have language that refers to a united federal democratic Iraq,'' he told reporters after the vote. ``I think they've come up with a resolution which is equitable and fair and I think all sides should be able to work with it.''
A PUK official, Araz Talabany, said Tuesday that the letter asked that reference to the interim constitution be made in the Security Council resolution providing international legitimacy to U.S. plans for transferring power to the Iraqis. ``They said that in the future they might not participate in the government or in the coming elections'' planned by Jan. 31 if the new resolution failed to mention the interim resolution, the aide said before the U.N. vote. Talabany, the aide, said the interim constitution stipulates from some Kurdish rights, such as federalism. ``What they are asking for is the least of the rights of the Kurdish people.'' he said.
In his own letter to the United Nations, al-Sistani said that any effort to give legitimacy to the interim charter, known as the Transitional Administrative Law, by mentioning it in the Iraq resolution ``runs counter to the will of the Iraqi people.'' ``This law, which has been written by an unelected council under the occupation and its direct influence, restricts the national (body) due to be elected at the beginning of the new year to draft Iraq's permanent constitution,'' al-Sistani said. ``This runs against law and is rejected by the majority of the Iraqi people.''
"The will of the Iraqi people is what I say it is!"
Al-Sistani objected to the interim constitution because it was not drafted by an elected body but was instead approved by the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council. He has insisted that the interim charter should not tie the hands of a future elected body that will draft a permanent constitution next year.
The Kurds won a major concession in the interim constitution which states that if a majority of voters in three of Iraq's 18 provinces reject the permanent charter, it will not be approved. Kurds control three provinces. Shiites complain that gives a veto to an ethnic community which forms about 15 percent of the population. Shiites are believed to comprise about 60 percent.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/09/2004 12:48:59 AM ||
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I'm not sure if this new NYT version of the story has been posted or not:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/09/international/middleeast/09KURD.html?pagewanted=2
Shiite leaders have said repeatedly in recent weeks that they intend to remove parts of the interim constitution that essentially grant the Kurds veto power over the permanent constitution, which is scheduled to be drafted and ratified next year.
The Shiite leaders consider the provisions undemocratic, while the Kurds contend they are their only guarantee of retaining the rights to self-rule they gained in the past 13 years, protected from Saddam Hussein by United States warplanes. The two leaders also asked President Bush for a commitment to protect "Kurdistan" should an insurgency compel the United States to pull its forces out of the rest of Iraq.
To assure that Kurdish rights are retained, Mr. Talabani and Mr. Barzani, whose parties together deploy about 75,000 fighters, asked President Bush to include the interim Iraqi constitution in the United Nations security resolution that governs the restoration of Iraqi sovereignty. But a senior United Nations official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said American officials rejected the Kurdish request because of concerns over offending the country's Shiite leaders.
Kurdish leaders say they are concerned that the new Iraqi government will not honor the interim constitution unless it is forced to. Iraqi leaders and United Nations officials say that under generally accepted principles of international law, the new Iraqi government will not be bound by any of the laws passed during the American occupation. Bush administration officials have maintained publicly that the interim constitution, as well as all the laws approved during the occupation, will continue to have legal force in Iraq after June 30. But privately, a senior official acknowledged that the interim constitution would need to be reaffirmed to have legal force.
I have zero respect for what the WH has done to the Kurds. Bush isn't even worried about Turkey, which is at least a half-hat ally. What's really pathetic is that Bush is pinning his hopes on Shiites. Hello, does Shiite loyalty and the Shaw of Iran ring any bells?
Posted by: rex ||
06/09/2004 2:01 Comments ||
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#2
I hope you're wrong Rex, but at least he won't pull out all troops, like Kerry has promised, throwing the country into a civil war, - and then institute a draft (as democrats are requesting) in order to send men to die under the control of the UN, while Koffie dines on foi gras. Oh..and then once Kerry depletes the oil reserves, gas prices will go through the roof (since the demand for oil won't go down no matter how much those using limos and lear jets complain about the SUV drivers) and the Democratss will blame it all on the previous administration.
#3
Rex, I don't see the White House as having mistreated the Kurds. Like it or not, they will have to negotiate their relationship with the other groups in Iraq, and they are a minority. I would have preferred that a more federal structure be guaranteed, but I'm not sure that was realistically in our power - and I am dead sure it would not have passed in the UN, which means it would be very difficult if not impossible to get the oil for food scam etc. off the backs of Iraq.
Look at it from the other side: the Kurds have a strong, well-armed and well-trained fighting force, they have oil and oil income right now, and they have a significant number of top spots in the interim government, especially in the ministries.
#4
while the Kurds contend they are their only guarantee of retaining the rights to self-rule they gained in the past 13 years, protected from Saddam Hussein by United States warplanes
sooo...sounds smart to me that the Kurds just back out and refuse to play. Gets us off the hook from being involved in that decision and we can continue to protect the Kurds from the US warplanes that we fly from our bases located in the new Republic of Kurdistan. GW will have achieved his goal of introducing Democracy into the MidEast; it's a logical division of the country; and the inevitable Shia/Sunni "conflict" can be monitored by UN observers - allowing lavish expense accounts to keep flowing for the next 50 years and pleasing French and German politicians with the large amounts of money they can skim off the top of humanitarian aid and kickbacks from Iraqi oil contracts.
Did I mention that the New Republic of Kurdistan will have lots of its own oil?
#5
Hello, does Shiite loyalty and the Shaw of Iran ring any bells?
George Bernard Shaw or Ellen Shaw (aka "Cyndi Lauper")?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/09/2004 7:55 Comments ||
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#6
rex - Snipe, snipe, snipe. Zero respect for the WH, eh?
Spell out your plan, include all of the arguments against it and how you would resolve those issues.
Nobody on RB is a bigger believer than I am regards giving the Kurds something at least as good as they had during the No Fly years. Trust me on this assertion. I began spouting off in favor of partition about, oh, 13-14 months ago. Because, when you do the little exercise above, that's where you'll end up because the Shia are too bent upon running the show and fantasizing about Sunni payback to think BIG. They think small - befitting their manhood.
The Kurds have been screwed over by everyone on the planet, it seems. We should be different. They have earned it, in spades, and proven that they know WTF to do with freedom. And I don't think they should be held back while the dumb 7th century Arabs spend 2-22 generations figuring out how to do freedom and still be corrupt and tribal and manage to fuck the other sect at every turn.
So I'm actually with you regards the Kurds - but give the political crap a rest. Dubya doesn't deserve your shit. NOBODY in ANY position of power has even whispered, yet, what is obvious to anyone who follows it to the logical end:
Partition.
I get it - and I guess you do too. They will, soon enough.
#8
B - Lol! I am certain it's better that the Kurds refuse to sign any arrangement that makes them subordinate to either Arab group. Iraq is one of the confabulations of the Brits & French (Sykes-Picot Agreement) in the Middle East. It has no more logical association than did Yugoslavia. Maintaining this fiction created on a bar napkin over drinks is important to, um, whom? Beats the hell outta me.
Agree with you thoroughly. Partition is the logical outcome. It's the will of Allan.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
06/09/2004 9:36 Comments ||
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#10
I see spirited haggling over tea, not people storming out of the rug shop, quite yet. The Kurds will have opportunities to "make their own arrangements" with respect to the rest of Iraq if/when the situation falls below their acceptable minimum. Their relationship to the rest of Iraq is almost like ours -- our main interest is that the place not be a threat, and it would be swell if they return to being a major oil exporter, while they're at it.
Time will tell, but I'd bet that in the end Shi'a political bumbling -- much in evidence for the past few months -- will give way to a savvier pragmatism, and the Kurds and Shi'a will arrive at a modus vivendi. The advantages thereof are simply so obvious that even the Shi'a leadership won't fail to recognize them. Patience.
#11
Now that we are so buddy buddy with our "allies", I fear things will actually start to fall apart. I feel badly for the Bush administration. It has been pressed into international cooperation and there is little principle guiding decision making any longer. I so hope we make sure the Kurds get full autonomy/a Kurdistan. Otherwise, the behavioral training message is complete: get violent and get a reward, cooperate with good will and get sh*t on (again).
#12
I also feel that Kurds do ofcourse have the *right* to partition and nobody doubts that it'd be good for them.
But if you are talking about a democratic Kurdistan accomplishing in any way to satisfy the goal of "bringing democracy to the Middle East", then I don't see why a Kurdish democracy would be considered to accomplish that, when the Turkish democracy, located in almost the same spot, failed to do.
Iraq-as-a-model-of-democracy seems to me to make sense as the concept of a new thing only if you are talking about an *Arab*-majority country being such model. In that respect what'd be good for Kurdistan doesn't necessarily seem to be what's best for either the rest of Iraq or the rest of Middle east. Or the war on Islamofascism.
But hey, it should be the Kurds' choice which way they'll go.
#13
i for one am not sure it would be good for the Kurds. What happens to the 800,000 Kurds of Baghdad? Refugees for the new Kurdish state to absorb, or "left behind"? And what happens to Kirkuk? Without Kirkuk, Kurdistan has left even more thousands of Kurds behind, and most of the Norths oil as well. With Kirkuk, Kurdistan has an ongoing border dispute with rump Iraq, and large and restive arab minority, a large and restive Assyrian Christian minority, and a large and restive Turkish minority. And its landlocked, by the way, with all routes to the outside world passing through hostile neighbors.
Nah, the Kurds are much better off INSIDE a federal Iraq. This is pressure to make sure they get that, thats all.
#14
Liberalhawk-
Where will all that justifiable Kurdish anger go if they are forced to submit once again to a Shia OR Sunni controlled Iraq? Too much history...
#15
Part of this may be that the WH wants to force the Kurds and the Shi'ites to work through their issues now, rather than later. If there's a little bluster and tussle before an agreement is worked out, then the Iraqis will own whatever solution they come up with. That would be a good thing.
Now that we are so buddy buddy with our "allies", I fear things will actually start to fall apart.
I'm not worried. GWB is (metaphorically speaking) the best chess player, and the best poker player, in the world, and he's never more dangerous than when his adversaries think they have him cornered.
Posted by: Mike ||
06/09/2004 13:19 Comments ||
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#16
jules - they will suppress their anger and look for the next available chance for change. When youre a tiny oppressed minority, you have to be rational - you dont have a choice. And sometimes you have to put up with shit. Believe me, some of us know from this.
#17
"They will suppress their anger and look for the next available chance for change."
Probably they will for a while...but when you've been crossed again and again, and believe there is no hope in the hand you're dealt, you may no longer watch and wait. I am concerned that disempowering the Kurds as this stupid resolution does will spur them on to a new, violent creativity, as seems to happen so often over there.
#18
I agree with you #17. Kurds are no shrinking violets. As well, Kurds are excellent fighters when push comes to shove. I think Kurds everywhere have been watching the Iraq issue very closely. I hope the West does not betray their hopes for a Kurdistan because Kurds in Iraq can become as empassioned a foe in the future as they have been a loyal ally in the past and present.
#6 I'm not sure that the WH "gets" it. ie. the need for partition. I think that President Bush is very idealistic and he believes in the idea that we can love our enemies as long as we have tolerance for one another and choices to lead our own lives as we please. I believe that historical tribal rivalries and violence have no place in W's Christian world view of the future. Sniping,political crap...maybe Wolfowitz reads our forum [he apparently reads blogs]and will get a dose of realityspeak instead of idealismspeak. I think W's heart is in the right place, but I fear he is ignoring reality.
Posted by: rex ||
06/09/2004 15:26 Comments ||
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#19
my sense is that the kurds have managed to deal quite pragmatically with oppressors in the past. They rose up against Iraq when they had Iranian and Israeli support in the '70s. When they were betrayed they went quiet. Obviously against Saddam in the "80s they had their backs to the wall, and lashed out. Backs to the wall is different from ordinary suppression.
What do we think a Sistani backed Shiite regime would do to the Kurds? Take away regional autonomy? Or commit genocide, a la SH? If the former, i think theyll be pragmatic and play the game. If the latter theyll rebel, but i dont think A. Sistani wants that or B. That we would let him get away with it (this aint Sudan) or C. that he thinks he would get away with it.
Please answer my original question. Of the 3 major groups in Iraq, who gained the most power and who lost the most: the religious zealots (Shia), secular de Sades (Sunni), and LOYAL coalitionists (Kurds)? Is this not rewarding despicable behavior and punishing valiant behavior?
#21
first i dont agree that ALL Shia are religous zealots. As for Kurds losing, you are using the northern no fly zone as a baseline - Im not sure that we would have maintained that forever. You also forget that many (MOST?) Iraqi Kurds did NOT live in the Kurdish autonomous zone. again, 800,000 in Baghdad, and thousands in and around Kirkuk.
We SHOULD not be rewarding or punishing particular groups in Iraq. We should be setting up a democratic, federal Iraq state.
#22
Will you take that stance consistently, to its furthest limit? Free political participation in Iraq for all, including terrorists and torturers? You are correct saying that OUR job is to [help] set up a "democratic, federal Iraq state"; but do you actually believe that you treat people who behave nobly and people that behave savagely the same? Are they equally suited for leadership roles?
This line of argument suspiciously like Marxist doctrine-you don't earn what you create, you earn what others create.
#23
Most democracies exclude convicted felons from the vote. I presume terrorists and torturers will be convicted of crimes. Its also a fact that we excluded ex-Nazis from politics in Germany, though we allowed lower level ones back in after a while. I have no problem with the exclusion ALL baathists from political participation (though i dont think thats where things are headed) But I dont judge peoples right to participate politically by their religion, ethnicity, or their class - all law adult citizens of sound mind and no criminal convictions have a right to participate -thats not Marxism, thats basic democratic principle. We judge people as INDIVIDUALS, not as members of groups.
#24
No argument with that-I hate collective guilt, too. But let's try to focus on the question of whether the Kurds are getting a fair shake here.
Kurds and Shia both were sh*t on by Saddam. Now he is gone and everyone wants to have a voice. Shia enjoy being the majority of the population-already a power card. Kurds, as a minority of the populace, have always had to struggle for their share of the pie-their equal rights (which based on your usual line of argumentation-making sure the little guy doesn't get jipped-should appeal to you). They also have suffered mightily from Shia/Sunni ethnic discrimination. If they are not represented in the highest areas of the government, what do you imagine will happen to them? It's amazing that you imagine they are going to come out ok, given the history in Iraq. A better understanding of human nature wouldn't hurt, Liberalhawk.
The US administration on Tuesday signalled it would press other members of the Group of Eight industrialised nations to relieve Iraq of its $120bn external sovereign debt, as President George W. Bush celebrated the prospect of closer international co-operation. Officials said the US would push its case on relieving Iraq of its external sovereign debt. A Bush administration official noted that the International Monetary Fund had said the "vast majority" of Iraq's debt needs to be forgiven and added that the US would back that position.
Although the focus of this year's gathering is bound to be Iraq - underlined by the arrival on Wednesday for lunch of Sheikh Ghazi al-Yawar, Iraq's president, along with several other Middle Eastern leaders - the US hosts have been eager to tout a long list of G8 initiatives.
These include commitments or programmes encouraging free trade, fostering democracy in the Middle East, building peace-keeping capabilities, addressing HIV/Aids, facilitating remittances by immigrant workers, reducing famine in the Horn of Africa, eradicating polio and introducing a "Methane to Markets" scheme to take waste gas and turn it into clean energy.
The talks begin with one on advancing economic growth. US officials say the outlook for global growth was better than it had been for two decades. However, John Snow, US Treasury secretary, indicated that Washington was concerned that the slower rate of growth in countries such as Germany, France and Italy was proving a drag on US trade and job creation.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/09/2004 12:42:39 AM ||
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Israeli helicopter gunships have fired rockets at two workshops at the Chatti refugee camp entrance in Gaza city, Palestinian security sources said. There was no immediate word on any casualties but the two workshops were destroyed. In a brief statement the Israeli Army said it had attacked "a workshop containing weapons for the Hamas terrorist group". "The arms depot destroyed was used by Hamas terrorists for terror attacks on Israeli civilians," the statement said. The raid follows an attack from the Gaza Strip with Qassam rockets on the southern Israeli city of Sderot, which did not cause any injuries. The rocket struck a road, damaging two vehicles and five people were treated at the scene for shock, said Israeli public television.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/09/2004 12:30:48 AM ||
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Workshops for terrorists? In peace-loving Gaza? Impossible. Bet they were really workshops for Santa's elves.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
06/09/2004 9:42 Comments ||
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that's why five people were treated for shock
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/09/2004 10:12 Comments ||
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From Pakistan Today
Thousands of armed Ahmadzai Wazir tribesmen were again in Shakai area of South Waziristan agency on Sunday to pursue locals to launch a house-to-house search for foreign elements. Members of the lashkar and locals in Wana said leaders of the lashkar have agreed with tribal elders represented by Malik Ghulam alias Faqir in Shakai that house-to-house search would start from Monday morning in all the areas where suspected foreign elements are believed to be hiding.
The armed tribesmen were in Shakai for the second day, but no major operation was conducted, eyewitnesses said. The tribal lashkar is waiting for a nod from the government as representatives of the 36-member supervisory committee are scheduled to meet the political authorities before heading for Shakai.
The lashkar members said that either an assurance would be sought from the government to give approval to the operation of the lashkar or send government officials to oversee the activity of the armed force. Wana bazzar is still closed and prices of daily use items have gone high which has created numerous hardships for the locals. "Even a local telephone call costs you Rs 20, what to talk of other things," said one Amir Nawab Wazir. No official from the political authorities was available to comment on the situation.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/09/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Starting Monday ah? Did they make reservations with the al-Qaeda appointment bureau yet?
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (AP) -- U.S.-led troops backed by jet fighters and helicopters killed 21 Taliban militants Tuesday, after rebels attacked a convoy in the mountains of southern Afghanistan, an Afghan commander said. The U.S. military said five Marines and two Afghans were wounded in the clash in southern Afghanistan. An Afghan governor said the fighting took place in Daychopan district of Zabul province, some 190 miles southwest of Kabul. "The battle occurred as the Marines and Afghan fighting forces approached a site identified as a likely ambush site. As Marines advanced an intense firefight ensued," said Capt. Eric Dent, a U.S. Marine spokesman.
Dent said in an e-mailed statement that four enemy fighters were captured -- two of them wounded in the battle -- and several killed, but gave no exact death toll. The five wounded Marines were in stable condition, he said. The injured Afghans were a soldier and an interpreter. Their condition was not immediately known.
Jan Mohammed Khan, the governor of neighboring Uruzgan province, said the convoy was ambushed by a group of more than 100 Taliban in a mountainous area called Sharaboz Kothal. He said U.S. jets and warplanes joined the fight, scattering the body parts of the insurgents over the countryside. "We collected 21 bodies," Khan told The Associated Press. "The rest ran back into the mountains."
Dent did not mention air strikes.
Some 2,000 Marines based in Uruzgan have clashed repeatedly with large bands of militants in the mountainous area which also includes Zabul and Kandahar provinces. More than 40 insurgents have been reported killed during the past week, in a rerun of fierce fighting last August and early September in the same area which left well over 100 Taliban and one American special operations member dead. Khan said the dead included two local Taliban commanders, Mullah Jabar and Mullah Jalan
Two other Taliban militants killed
An third Taliban commander died Tuesday near Musa Qala in Helmand province, some 280 miles southwest of Kabul, said Haji Mohammed Wali, a provincial government spokesman. The commander, Mullah Malik, and another man opened fire on troops who tried to stop their car. Both were killed when the soldiers returned fire, Wali said. Two soldiers were wounded.
"Stop your car!"
"Never, you American dogs!"
[KA-BLAM POP POP BOOM BANG CRUNCH] "Tyrone, you okay?"
"Yeah Sarge, it's a little hole. Bet he'll stop the car next time."
Posted by: ed ||
06/09/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Nothing is as sweet as a Taliban lovingly kissing the shiny approach, of a new bullet!
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
