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N Korean train accident involved Syrians
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-Short Attention Span Theater-
Iran: Germany supplied chemical weapons to Iraq
Posted by: Annie Moose || 05/16/2004 18:39 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  But..but..but that's not possible; Saddam didn't have WMD!

/moonbat mode
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 22:50 Comments || Top||

#2  I seem to remember the Germans supposedly built a super bunker for Saddam, capable of withstanding a direct nuclear hit. I wonder if this "bunker" was the hole that Sammy was ultimately pulled out of.
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 23:21 Comments || Top||

#3  Rafael - Not unless concrete septic tanks are nuclear-proof.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 23:36 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm obliged to wonder if Iran and its people will ever finally realize that invading international soil and then holding hostage people with diplomatic immunity really limited any sympathy that might have been forthcoming from the remaining world about chemical weapons having been used against them.

When this is also added against Iran's use of ten year-old boys as human mine sweepers for troop sorties during the Iran-Iraq conflict, their endless squawking about Saddam's war crimes merely becomes all the more irrelevant.

Is there even any need to mention their continuing support for international terrorism?
Posted by: Zenster || 05/17/2004 0:07 Comments || Top||


Some Very Ancient History
Written by me. Inspired by Brad Pitt.
Homer’s poem The Illiad begins with the words, "The Wrath of Achilles is my theme, the fatal wrath which ... brought the Achaeans so much suffering." Achilles was the best leader in the Achaeans’ army, and so the story mostly intends to describe his wrath’s consequences on his own army – not on the enemy Trojans’ army.

Achilles’ wrath culminated in a war crime. After Achilles killed the Trojan leader Hector in a duel, Homer wrote, "The next thing that Achilles did was to subject the fallen prince to a shameful outrage." Achilles tied the dead Hector to his chariot and dragged the body across the ground back to his camp. Achilles dumped the body there and declared he would let it be eaten by dogs. During the following eleven May 16, 2004days, however, the gods kept the dogs away and prevented the corpse from rotting. When Achilles again dragged the corpse behind his chariot, the gods protected its skin from damage.

"This was the shameful way," Homer wrote, "in which Achilles in his wrath treated Prince Hector." On the twelfth day, the god Apollo spoke to the other gods thus: "Achilles, like the lion, has killed pity. And he cares not a jot for public opinion, to which most people bend the knee for better or worse. .... He kills Prince Hector first and then he ties him to his chariot and drags him round the tomb. As thought that were an honorable thing, or were going to do him any good! He had better beware of our godly wrath, great man though he is."

The disagreement among the gods about this outrage was appealed to Zeus, who sent the goddess Thetis, Achilles’ own mother, to inform him that his outrage had displeased the gods. She instructed Achilles to return the corpse to Hector’s father, Priam, and he did so. At this meeting, Priam asked Achilles to observe a twelve-day truce so that he could bury his son properly, and Achilles agreed. Achilles wrath was dissipated by his conversation with Priam, and they both wept together.

Achilles’ bravery and success was based on the supernatural invulnerability of his entire body – except for one small area of one heel. Inevitably, though, an arrow struck him in exactly that one vulnerable spot and killed him.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 05/16/2004 7:30:25 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Well, that's a miracle. I can't imagine anybody being inspired by Brad Pitt.

Except maybe to barf.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 19:51 Comments || Top||

#2  Where wine dark sea?
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 21:25 Comments || Top||

#3  An Rosy Fingered Dawn? She on MTV now?
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 21:26 Comments || Top||

#4  Achilles’ wrath culminated in a war crime

Really? Did he go before the ICC? Was this a violation of the 3rd or 4th article of the Aegian Convention?

What a load of shit.

Posted by: spiffo || 05/16/2004 22:26 Comments || Top||

#5  And what about those topless ... er, uh ... towers? Yes, that's it ... towers!
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 22:30 Comments || Top||

#6  I forget which translation begins -
"Sing, O Goddess, of the wrath of Achilles, son of Peleus"
I like that opening better.
Posted by: Anonymous4870 || 05/16/2004 22:58 Comments || Top||


Arabia
Yemen foils plot to assassinate US ambassador
This is from the Borneo Bulletin. This seems to not constitute ’news’ in the ’mainstream’ press.
Yemeni authorities foiled a terrorist plot to assassinate the US ambassador in San’a last year, Yemen’s interior minister said Wednesday. Interior Minister Rashad al-Eleimi, addressing parliament, said that 195 terrorist suspects are in Yemeni custody for the bombing of USS Cole, the French oil tanker Limburg and an assassination attempt against US Ambassador Edmund Hull. Yemen had never previously made public such a plot. Al-Eleimi didn’t elaborate. But an Interior Ministry official told The Associated Press that the plotters were arrested before they could carry out their plan, in the second half of last year.
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 9:32:24 AM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:


Yemen finds money an effective weapon to reform terrorists
Posted without comment except to say this was published in an American newspaper whereas it reads like the Yemen Times.
The Islamic leaders of Osama bin Laden’s ancestral homeland have come up with a unique solution to fighting terrorism -- release 246 jailed suspects, put some on the army payroll and use millions of dollars to pay off tribes that sheltered them.
Hmmm... Paying Danegeld. Now, why didn't I think of that?
The freed inmates aren’t required to work, but are kept under surveillance instead after repenting to a senior cleric picked by President Ali Abdullah Saleh, officials said. The amnesty experiment is one of the more unusual measures Yemen has taken since the USS Cole bombing killed 17 U.S. sailors off the port of Aden in October 2000, nearly a year before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
Seems to me 17 of our guys are still dead. If they repent can they live the rest of their lives?
Yemen also is working with the United States and Saudi Arabia to close borders and ports to arms smuggling and militant traffic. But critics say the moves aren’t enough to wipe out terrorism in a country where poverty, extremism, corruption and nepotism are rampant and American policies on Iraq and the Palestinians are ceaselessly exploited not popular with the public or clerics. "The feeling of hatred for Americans is increasing day after day and this represents a huge obstacle to improving relations further with America," said Mohammed al-Sabri, a freelance columnist who focuses on Yemeni-U.S. relations. In an interview, Prime Minister Abdul-Kader Bajammal said Yemen has dismantled 90 percent of terror cells since the Sept. 11 attacks, while 20 to 25 of the most hard-core wanted men remain at large. There hasn’t been a major terrorist act inside the country since three American missionaries were shot dead at a Southern Baptist missionary hospital in the southern town of Jibla in 2002. Still, some religious leaders aren’t helping, and exporting terrorism from Yemen -- whether to Iraq or elsewhere -- remains a thriving industry concern.
Probably Saleh sees that problem as a method of getting the Bad Guys out from under foot...
When President Saleh asked senior clerics in August 2002 to initiate a dialogue with the jailed suspects, all but one balked. Unlike his colleagues, Supreme Court Judge Hammoud al-Hitar, who also is a senior cleric, wasn’t concerned about being labeled a U.S. agent for cajoling the Muslim radicals into repenting and pursuing a more moderate religious path. The effort led to the release of 246 inmates -- not one of whom has lapsed to his old ways, al-Hitar says.
See, all they needed was a good talking to.
About 65 suspects remain in prison, including those indicted for terrorist acts. Al-Hitar recently went to London to talk to British security officials about his experience. Sitting on his living room floor, al-Hitar told AP he began his talks with the most dedicated al-Qaida recruits, holding "tough" sessions. He said he went through all their arguments for militancy -- that jihad, or holy war, means attacking others and that the spilling of the blood of non-Muslims is legitimate -- and proved to them that the Quran considers their beliefs wrong. After repeated sessions, the inmates were released in three stages, according to al-Hitar, who said he is "100 percent sure they repented out of conviction and not because they wanted to get out of jail."
Even though having "repented" means there's no one hitting them regularly...
He said the men have been told they are under surveillance and since their release no infractions have been reported. Abdul-Karim al-Iryani, a former prime minister who is an adviser to the president, said that in many cases poverty was the reason the men joined al-Qaida. To improve their situation, the government gave some of the freed men army titles and salaries. "But they don’t report to work," al-Iryani said. "It’s a source of security to the country. The biggest social welfare system in the country are the army and the police." In subduing al-Qaida, Prime Minister Bajammal said the government also bought off tribes that once sheltered terrorists. Yemen paid them millions of dollars, said al-Iryani.
I'd comment "wotta racket," but I'm speechless...
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 9:25:28 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ... release 246 jailed suspects, put some on the army payroll and use millions of dollars to pay off tribes that sheltered them ... in a country where poverty, extremism, corruption and nepotism are rampant ...

A little help here? My Frink-O-Matic WTF Meter™ just exploded.


Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 15:39 Comments || Top||

#2  Man, what a place! I'll just get my Robert Pelton Young travel book, read up on Yemen, and bugaloo right on down there for an exciting holiday.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 05/16/2004 15:48 Comments || Top||

#3  Here is the famous poem for the curious.

Danegeld
(Rudyard Kipling)

It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation,
To call upon a neighour and to say:--
''We invaded you last night -- we are prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away.''

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray,
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say:--

We never pay anyone Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost,
For the end of the game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that pays it is lost!"
Posted by: Super Hose || 05/16/2004 17:13 Comments || Top||


To My American Readers With Love
Dr. Khaled M. Batarfi, Arab News
I can feel the love.
It is refreshing to learn that some of you agree with at least some of what I stand for. I appreciate and learn from your critical, independent, humane and global views. Together, we could start a global movement against all kinds of abuse, extremism and terror.
Yes, there are Fifth Columnists even here in America.
But there are also readers who insist that there is a difference between the crimes of a better class of people, who can do no wrong, and the lesser breed, whose similar or smaller crimes are inexcusable. I would only say to them: This is the mentality of the super-race, the crusaders and Zionists that gave rise to Bin Laden and his kind.
Bin Laden is a crusader and Zionist. Wow! I missed that video.
After centuries of imperialism and a concomitant flood of this rubbish, we cannot take it anymore. Either a crime is a crime and a criminal is a criminal regardless of color and race, or we have the law of the jungle, the Wild West, and all lawsuits are void.
Sharia is the only law.
I would ask this — hopefully — small number of vocal readers: Why does the US so adamantly refuse to join the World Court of Justice? Why would it force every member to sign a bilateral agreement not to persecute any American for war crimes? Why does it, on the other hand, preserve the right to persecute anyone, even prisoners of war, outside the international judicial system and without regard for the global conventions it is a signatory to?
Dr Bartafi, you, sir, are a demagogue. You pretend not to know the answers to your own questions. That love thing must be fogging your mind.
You rightly regard the crimes of US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan as not representative of America. I lived in beautiful America with very beautiful Americans, and I wholeheartedly agree. How come, then, that you insist that the crimes of Muslim terrorists are representative of 1.5 billion Muslims, and blame Islam and Saudi Arabia for the extremist misreadings of Islam and the terrorist acts of a minority?
Beautiful Americans? Don’t you want all women in Burkas? Muslim terrorists are committing their crimes in the name of Islam. All we infidels hear is the silence of the rest of the Muslims. Accordingly, the silent are agreeing that the crimes represent Islam.
The double standards go on. You regard the killing of tens of thousands of Palestinians, Afghani and Iraqi women and children as collateral damage, the barbaric violence of your soldiers as natural reactions in the fog of war. And then you turn around and tell us that the savage burning of four mercenaries and killing of militant Israeli settlers — land thieves — by rogue elements with valid complaints are indefensible crimes that all of us should pay or apologize for.
Tens of thousands of women and children killed. What the f***! We missed all the men. Call the bombers back.
“War is Hell,” and if you start a fight you better roll with the punches. If you don’t like the heat, get the hell out of our kitchen. You shouldn’t be there in the first place.
Look, Doc, if we wanted, we could turn the Middle East into a glass parking lot. America will never surrender to the Death Cult. Count on it Doc. This War isn’t over by a long shot. Hell could be coming your way.
Finally, if I sound angry, then wait until you hear from the Muslim street. For the sake of all of us peace lovers, I hope you don’t wait too long.
Ooga booga, the Arab Street, oohhh I’mmmm sooo scared. Doc, you better start worrying about the American Street. It’s getting pretty feed up with the Moon God Cult.
— kbatarfi@al-madina.com.sa

Posted by: Jabba the Nutt || 05/16/2004 12:19:20 AM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Somebody should tell Dr. Bullshit that the tides are turning and pretty soon he will hear from the American Street. If he thinks that The US Army is deadly and ruthless, wait until he gets a taste of the American Street!
Posted by: Anonymous4617 || 05/16/2004 0:40 Comments || Top||

#2  "Islam is Peace" Says President
Remarks by the President at Islamic Center of Washington, D.C., September 16, 2001

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much for your hospitality. We've just had wide-ranging discussions on the matter at hand. Like the good folks standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks. And so were Muslims all across the world. Both Americans and Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslims in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens.

These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.

The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war.

When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race -- out of every race...
Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America. That's not the America I know. That's not the America I value.

I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America.
Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America, they represent the worst of humankind, and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.

This is a great country. It's a great country because we share the same values of respect and dignity and human worth. And it is my honor to be meeting with leaders who feel just the same way I do. They're outraged, they're sad. They love America just as much as I do.
Posted by: Muslim Lover || 05/16/2004 0:41 Comments || Top||

#3  And there you have it. We don't belong, we don't know the brotheren.

And BTW, sometimes a post goes to a black hole. Must be frightening to some. Might cause a distraction. Could be bad for the kids. The old folks could be made uncomfortable. Shame on me.
Posted by: Lucky || 05/16/2004 0:43 Comments || Top||

#4 
Together, we could start a global movement against all kinds of abuse, extremism and terror.

OK. Let's start with a global condemnation of Saudi Arabia.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 05/16/2004 0:49 Comments || Top||

#5  Muslim Lover, pure fake bullshit. Take your lame ass crap and sell it in Egypt. You'll do well there.
Posted by: Lucky || 05/16/2004 0:49 Comments || Top||

#6  Ya know, Muslim Lover, I wouldn't get my hopes up...it's been quite a while since President Bush made a speech like that.

If you love Islam and you want it to be about Peace, instead of leaving people in Pieces, then you'd better get busy and *purge* the radicals from your midst for good and all or else a few thousand jihadis will give the rest of you peace-lovers a bad enough name to get the entire religion banned worldwide permanently.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 1:16 Comments || Top||

#7  Islam isn't peace. Islam is submission.

I had never heard anyone define Islam as "peace" until 9/11. Since then, I've gotten sick of hearing that, particularly in face of the constant evidence that it Just Ain't So.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 05/16/2004 1:28 Comments || Top||

#8  Jen, Lucky and Robert:
May Allah be displeased with you.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html
Posted by: Muslim Lover || 05/16/2004 2:18 Comments || Top||

#9  Let's take a lesson in elementary Arabic. Islam means submission, not peace. The word word peace is Salam.
Posted by: JFM || 05/16/2004 3:42 Comments || Top||

#10  I don't care if Allan is displeased with me because he isn't my God or even a god!
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 4:28 Comments || Top||

#11  'Finally, if I sound angry, then wait until you hear from the Muslim street'. HA HA HA, thats the best one i've heard all week,what you gonna do get allah to come beat us all up. Time to start enforcing our indisputable power on the high seas me thinks.Lets blockade all the major sea routes in the CENTCOM region, the Gulf,the Red Sea,the Med and only let vessals transit these waters and on no accounts dock in Arab ports unless given our permission,after several months of highly restricted port traffic surly thier food stocks will be hit hard.Basically we need to starve the fuckers into submission.If that dosn't work then it may well be time for the ICBMs to show allah and his boys who the real power of the world is.
Posted by: Shep UK || 05/16/2004 5:05 Comments || Top||

#12  *cough* the "American Street" is filled with indy-bleedia and PoopOn.org folks. Face it, the real power in this nation is in the "American Suburb" where moms and dads are revving up their Hummers to run over the crowds of zombies playing a game of protest front of starbucks.

We'll know that the tides have changed when little kids stop playing "Coybows and Indians" and start playing "Cowboys and Boomers"
Posted by: Anonymous || 05/16/2004 5:42 Comments || Top||

#13  I have one message for this unctious, lying bastard: IF YOU DO NOT STOP EXPORTING TERRORISTS, YOU WILL ALL DIE.
Posted by: Dave D. || 05/16/2004 7:29 Comments || Top||

#14  I know this sounds bad but we need to pick and arab country and make a example of them.Show them what happens when you piss us off.
Posted by: djohn66 || 05/16/2004 7:45 Comments || Top||

#15  shep UK. I'm sure u wud like to dig for oil in ur backyard, when the muslims retaliate by stopping the supply of oil to the west. Where will all ur aircrafts, Ships (non nuclear),subs, vehicals and ICBMs get their fuel from? Heh not a bad idea, calling osma get ur ass up here pronto.....These guys would love to pay $100 / gallon.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 8:16 Comments || Top||

#16  Well lets see if arabs stop oil ,we come and take it how about that,nothin you coulk do about it.
Posted by: djohn66 || 05/16/2004 8:18 Comments || Top||

#17  I pick Saudi Arabia as my nomination for being the example,lets see if they can hijack their way outa an incoming ICBM.Then rob thier oil thus drawing all other stupid Arab armies to thier death in the deserts of Sauidi Arabia,the fly paper stratagy in grand scale.. :)
Posted by: Shep UK || 05/16/2004 8:19 Comments || Top||

#18  Funny, i'm sure the ICBM will leave the wells, well alone and only take out the population. And u guys r doing pretty good job in IRAQ so far - what with hardly any problems and no casualties so far. I wud guess going into another muslim country will be peach for u.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 8:37 Comments || Top||

#19  These guys would love to pay $100 / gallon.

At $100/gallon I'm riding my bike, or driving electric. So no cabbage for you, pal. And there's just about enough oil in my backyard to fuel at least one ICBM (you know, the diesel powered, MACH 35 X-1000 model, LMAO)
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 8:39 Comments || Top||

#20  This really made my blood pressure rise!!!

I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated.

Boo Friggin Hoo. The bad among us just intimidate you. Ooooh...how terrible. The bad among you blow us up and ruin our free society. And adding insult to injury, Moslem Organizations can't even sit in quiet condemnation, they endlessly BLAME US (and of course the Jews) for the problems that can be found in their own mirrors.

Shut up and sit down, we aren't interested in your petty problems anymore.
Posted by: B || 05/16/2004 8:41 Comments || Top||

#21  enough oil in my backyard to fuel at least one ICBM (you know, the diesel powered, MACH 35 X-1000 model, LMAO)

Wow that wud certainly take off (and land on ur neighbour's car). and hit S.A. Those guys r already shivering with fear.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 8:46 Comments || Top||

#22  Who is this Dr. Barf guy, anyhow?
Posted by: Infidel Bob || 05/16/2004 8:52 Comments || Top||

#23  #20,

I live in Saudi Arabia. These people have one-track mind: Me, me, me....
I shut their mouths when they want to sing that same song to me just by saying: you and I know, if americans would have done what you did to them, my husband's, son's and every american's head would have rolled on the ground faster than you can say shawarma. I ask them to give me a count of how many saudis have been killed in America, after 15 of them murdered 3000 american citizens. They never have much to say after that.
Posted by: Anonymous4617 || 05/16/2004 8:57 Comments || Top||

#24  And just what,Sadsack,do you think would happen to the economies and people of the Middle East if the U.S decided to put a total blockade on the Middle East.
America can feed herself,can you say the same for Muslem countrys.
Deffinatly not.
Posted by: Raptor || 05/16/2004 8:59 Comments || Top||

#25  Hey sakattack genius....you missed his point. Funny commenet though.
Posted by: B || 05/16/2004 9:00 Comments || Top||

#26  oops sorry, ...commenet=comment. Not sure you'd be able to figure that out.
Posted by: B || 05/16/2004 9:02 Comments || Top||

#27  "I wud guess going into another muslim country will be peach for u."

Actually, it probably will be a peach for us.

What we are doing in Iraq is predicated on the assumption that it is possible to de-toxify Muslim society through the introduction of democratic, consensual self-government, thereby allowing that society to prosper and become peaceful.

But if our experience in Iraq ends up disproving that assumption, and we are forced to the conclusion that Islamic society is irredeemable-- and Islam itself intrinsically evil-- you can bet your little brown ass that the next time we are attacked, our response will not be a war of liberation: it will be a war of extermination.
Posted by: Dave D. || 05/16/2004 9:08 Comments || Top||

#28  Ratpoo, u think muslim nations (if stick together) won't survive? They hv more resources available then the west, albeit not being utilized in a proper way.
#25. tnx for calling me a genuis and appreciating my humor. Since i'm dumb enough not to think the genuis is a sarcastic remark.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 9:09 Comments || Top||

#29  One more thing,during the 1974 oil embargo I felt at that time if the Arabs wanted to use oil as a weapon we should use food as a weapon.Let them eat a big ol'bowl of crude stew.
Posted by: Raptor || 05/16/2004 9:09 Comments || Top||

#30  #24,

Right now Saudi Arabia can sell a lot of its oil to China, and other Asian and European countries. They will get what they need from same countries to survive.
It is in the interest of the US to continue cultivating the "ties" with the Royal Family and help keep it in power. If the Royal Family falls, you will have another Taliban type of government in place. That is not good for the US.
Posted by: Anonymous4617 || 05/16/2004 9:10 Comments || Top||

#31  oops sorry, ...commenet=comment. Not sure you'd be able to figure that out.
Phew took load off my tiny brain, i was searching the dictionary for this new word.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 9:11 Comments || Top||

#32 
#28,

Tell one intance where muslim countries have gotten together other than to plan the destruction of another country (and failed at that, too)?
Posted by: Anonymous4617 || 05/16/2004 9:14 Comments || Top||

#33  Davd Dick, FYI my ass is more white than ur face. U can't label all non west ppl as brown. Here we also do things like tanning.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 9:16 Comments || Top||

#34  #29 , i'm sure we would be begging for ur mac's and KFC's cuz we want to be fat and obese like u guys, if u stop ur food exports. The only thing i'll miss is the Diet Pepsi.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 9:19 Comments || Top||

#35 
#32 this question has me stumpted. This is our failing.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 9:27 Comments || Top||

#36  Diet Pepsi has alcohol in it.
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 9:28 Comments || Top||

#37  i'm sure we would be begging for ur mac's and KFC's cuz we want to be fat and obese like u guys, if u stop ur food exports
I'm sure your moongod Allan will provide you with plenty of Goat teats to suck on with your falafel.
Or maybe he'll make sand edible.
Posted by: Anonymous4867 || 05/16/2004 9:49 Comments || Top||

#38  Worth repeating:

There is no god named allah
mohammed was a liar
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 10:11 Comments || Top||

#39  Damn i hate dumb trolls,hey idiot if the US tomorrow wanted to exterminate the world it could be done at anytime of are choosing.Think about it a little bit.
Posted by: djohn66 || 05/16/2004 10:11 Comments || Top||

#40  Anyone else shocked by the apparent illteracy of "sakattack"?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 05/16/2004 10:12 Comments || Top||

#41  Hey dumb ass #39, what? u'll wear body condoms to protect urself from the nuclear fallout? Can't even protect urselves from AIDS. Thinking about exterminating world. U forgot on the flip side is Russia, N.Korea with its arsenal. Try to send one flying that side and see what happens.

#40, no1 except the dumbest guy in the world - i.e Robert Crawford.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 10:25 Comments || Top||

#42  "FYI my ass is more white than ur face. U can't label all non west ppl as brown."

A thousand apologies, my little friend! From your ignorance, your illiteracy, your utter failure to grasp what we have been telling you, and your general, all-around stupidity, I inferred that you were a wog. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

"Here we also do things like tanning."

You've got more serious things to think about than tanning, or making smartass remarks to Americans: heed the warnings we have given you, lest we be left with no alternative to exterminating you.
Posted by: Dave D. || 05/16/2004 10:26 Comments || Top||

#43  You guys are a sad and arrogant indicment of American society. How I wish the USSR was still in existence to temper your rantings and threaten YOU with weapons and bombs as willingly as you threaten others. OK I know you are only keyboard jockeys here and have no real power, but still, I think you would behave better if there was another country around with more weapons and more common sense. Continue the insults and threats if that is to be your new world...
Posted by: Yankee Chest Beater || 05/16/2004 10:27 Comments || Top||

#44  N.Korea with its ARSENAL? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

This (nut)sack-attack guy is fun to have around. Fresh blood, trollishly speaking.
Posted by: docob || 05/16/2004 10:30 Comments || Top||

#45  So what particularly bad news did the terrorists, their supporters, and the anti-anti-terrorists get this morning?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 05/16/2004 10:30 Comments || Top||

#46  #42 no u got more serious things like saving ur collective asses. U r so paranoid now that if a firecracker goes off, u shit in ur pants.

#43, well said ;)These assholes had to use Muslims help in the downfall of USSR and now look at them acting like goddamn world police.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 10:32 Comments || Top||

#47  #44, sorry i meant ARSE Nailer. That will nail ur ass.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 10:35 Comments || Top||

#48  Yup, yer right about that, nutsack. Since the NKors are such mighty heroes to you, perhaps, you should attempt to move there, to apply your shoulder more effectively to the great anti-American wheel.
Posted by: docob || 05/16/2004 10:41 Comments || Top||

#49  "U r so paranoid now that if a firecracker goes off, u shit in ur pants."

We didn't shit in our pants on 9/11, why should we do it now?
Posted by: Dave D. || 05/16/2004 10:42 Comments || Top||

#50  p.s. -- As far as food, tho, nutsack, it's pretty much a "BYO" situation in NKor, so remember that when packing.
Posted by: docob || 05/16/2004 10:44 Comments || Top||

#51  'Didn't shit in your pants my arse'! You wouldnt even cross the Atlantic in a plane for a holiday for 12 months, almost killing your airline industry! But I still like this brave fighting talk of 'turning their countries into glass'...
Posted by: Yankee Chest Beater || 05/16/2004 10:47 Comments || Top||

#52  Yer right YCB, such angry boasts are particularly offensive when compared to the verbal restraint on the other side.
Posted by: docob || 05/16/2004 10:51 Comments || Top||

#53  Docboo! Yes those guys are heros, cuz they hv more balls then u to stand upto the "world's Thug".

#49 u r right u didn't pre 9/11, u do now cuz of 9/11.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 10:54 Comments || Top||

#54  Sakattack, how old are you? And what pestilential third-world shithole do you live in?
Posted by: Dave D. || 05/16/2004 10:57 Comments || Top||

#55  If you honestly consider Kimmy a "hero", than by saying so in a public forum you have done more to discredit your worldview than anything I could add.
Posted by: docob || 05/16/2004 10:59 Comments || Top||

#56  #55 addressed, of course, to nutsak.
Posted by: docob || 05/16/2004 11:00 Comments || Top||

#57  doctag /DDick, i'm sure u hv already completed ur tour of duty for ur homeland and now just sitting on ur pc and typing all these brave crappy remarks. Its those poor soldiers and their families, who hv been sent in Iraq/Afghans that i feel sorry for, cuz of their trip to death valleys becuz their leader wants to rule the world.
Posted by: sakattack || 05/16/2004 11:03 Comments || Top||

#58  Ok shit for brains if you want a war come get some,bring your ass over and lets get it done I am tired of all the useless threats everybody sez there going to do to US.Well start your war lets see who wins.
Posted by: djohn66 || 05/16/2004 11:04 Comments || Top||

#59  How I wish the USSR was still in existence to temper your rantings and threaten YOU with weapons and bombs as willingly as you threaten others.

LOL! Praise God! The trolls are back in town!
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 11:57 Comments || Top||

#60  USSR would be able to take care of the little chechen problem too! LOL!

There is no god named allah
mohammed was a pedophile
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 11:59 Comments || Top||

#61  Shipman:
May all your goats give sour milk.
Posted by: Muslim Lover || 05/16/2004 14:38 Comments || Top||

#62  Hmm what would we do if Saudi Arabia and other gulf countries shut off our oil supply? Why invade Canada with a girl scout troop and take over THEIR oil supplies. FEAR THE GIRL SCOUT COOKIES!!!
Posted by: Valentine || 05/16/2004 14:39 Comments || Top||

#63  "Yankee Chest Beater"
The real chest beaters are the lying sons of Goebbels like this shithead authoritarian Batarfi, and the pathetic dhimmi-bigots like you who lick his arse.
It is you lot who proclaimed Taliban victory in Afghanistan (through Streicher's bastard dog Robert Fisk) and in Iraq, and most recently in Fallujah, where a thousand of your heroes were mowed down and the city is in the hands of our allies at our direction. Cowards, ie Euro-bigots and their RoP-doper allies here in the states, are the real bullies, using the power of lies and hypocrisy to justify their craven submission to mass murdering pigs whose idea of paradise is a misogynistic whorehouse in the sky.
Liars and braggart cowards, like your friends the dead jihadis: You lose, lose, lose and still proclaim your superiority at every turn.
Remember Streicher and Goebbels, murder-inciting Hate America bigots; follow their path, share their fate.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 05/16/2004 14:40 Comments || Top||

#64  Shipman there is no point talking politics with you (unless you can actually SEE my BIG gun of course) so let me pedantically correct the grammar of your language as I'll never alter it's tone :

Naughty schoolboy version :
There is no god named allah mohammed was a pedophile.

Slightly educated version (and from a 'dumb' foreigner too who didn't learn English on momma's lap):

There is no God named Allah.
Mohammed was a paedophile. (from Greek paedia - children - how apt)

Now to clarify further, there is actually no God full stop. It's quite a ridiculous concept! There may have been a Mohammed - he was just a man, but a good one, quite unlike those that can talk such nonsense and throw such insults (whichever 'side' they are on).
Posted by: Yankee Chest Beater || 05/16/2004 14:43 Comments || Top||

#65  While we're at it, Goebbels/Streicher descendants, where are the Iraqi children who were starved by the millions by US sanctions? Why did the Euro-lefty NGOs and "investigative journalists" fail to get even a whiff of the monstrous oil-for-food scam?
Whey were Euros silent about the billion dollar palaces Euro-corporations built for Saddam and his devil-spawn?
You are self-convicted cowards, plainly supporting those who issue fatwas and abusing those who don't.
You have made a mistake in your bigoted hubris.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 05/16/2004 14:45 Comments || Top||

#66  Atomic, you (like most of your insular, untraveled countrymen here) always jump to such assumptions. Since I espouse views that are not as yours I'm immediately some mad muslim to be berrated by talk of goats and peasantry. It so underlines your ignorance and the reason I have turned my back on the might of you white - you are SUCH bigots. You are so full of hate you dont even pause to think who you are targetting - and therein lies the key to the bigger picture... THINK about that please. I have no beard you know...
Posted by: Yankee Chest Beater || 05/16/2004 14:51 Comments || Top||

#67  Sakattack writes: think muslim nations (if stick together) won't survive? They hv more resources available then the west, albeit not being utilized in a proper way.

Um, no, you don't -- if you discount the oil, the combimed GDP's of the 22 Arab countries is less than the GDP of Finland. And we all know what an economic and military juggernaut Finland is.

Please remind me of the last time, alone or combined, Arab countries beat a Western country in a war. It's been a while, eh?

Now the Arab nations might be pretty good at the asymmetrical war idea, at least until Americans become so angry that they decide to write y'all off. You wouldn't like that if we did. Think of the following examples: Hiroshima. Nagasaki. Tokyo. Dresden. Hamburg. Aachen.

There are few things more profoundly terrifying than a Western democracy that decides to make total war. Think about that.
Posted by: Steve White || 05/16/2004 14:51 Comments || Top||

#68  bottom line is that they complain that our bad guys intimidate them, we complain that their bad guys kill us.

Mr. Barfi, you are right. The Nick Berg caused even the most wanna-believers to question if you are all a bunch of savages. You can seperate yourselves from the nuts if you want to by condemning their actions and assisting us in our fight. You're savage brothern have forced most Americans and Europeans to take off the rose colored glasses and for the first time we see the entire world in a new light. We now look at our history and understand WHY we were capable of the things we did in the past - even though we still cling to the hope that we can avoid doing them again.

We are so beyond your complaints of "intimidation". Your complaints just seem silly and sad to us, like the ex-wife still complaining that her ex never took out the trash. yawn.. time to get over it cause we just don't care anymore.
Posted by: worthsayingtwice || 05/16/2004 15:03 Comments || Top||

#69  #3 Exclusive: same white porch chair turns up in different terror videos, proving that Mossad, Charles Johnson and the CIA are responsible for all terror blamed on Muslims.

http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000233.html

Marc Perkel for President. "Get Out of the Dark and Go With Marc.">
Posted by: Muslim Lover || 05/16/2004 15:10 Comments || Top||

#70  YCB, if you were really well-traveled you would probably be able to deduce from linguistic cues that I am English by birth and education.
In contrast, some here are so well-traveled that they have guessed from similar cues that I am from the Scottish border region of England.

You otherwise display your own ignorance and bigotry in many ways. Those who fail to share your beliefs are insular and untraveled. Why? Because you say so? You are clearly unused to having your authority challenged.
In itself, this is a good indication of insularity.
Did I say that you were Muslim? that you had a beard? Quite the contrary, I referred to you and like-minded terror-apologists as "dhimmis."
Are you not aware that one cannot be a dhimmi and a Muslim at the same time?

Are you really clairvoyant enough to tell me what I am thinking, and make an authoritative statement about my assumptions? Did your education not include formal logic? How else would it be that you are so ignorant of strawman fallacy?
Are you not aware that "pedophile" is standard spelling in the United States, and is also commonly used in the UK, or that "god" is not capitalized unless it refers to a specific alleged deity?
Would you really say, "Zeus is not a real God or "Michael Moore and Robert Fisk are living Gods"?
Where have you been all your life?
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 05/16/2004 15:20 Comments || Top||

#71  I've been checking on this thread periodically all day, laughing every time. The crossfire has been particularly amusing, especially early on with sake's name-calling. Great job, guys.

But I feel obliged to offer my humble opinion that the original topic has been lost amongst the squabbles. And so I'm going to offer my own two cents, and show myself to be more mature - but before I do, Muslim-Lover, I want to explain to you a very simple concept of the world: there is more than one of every product. In a capitalist society, items are mass-produced. That my girlfriend has the same stuff from Victoria's Secret as the really hot models who wear it in the catalogs does not mean that one of us stole it from the other (too bad, too; she's beautiful, but those models are - oh, never mind); it simply means that they are two instances of a product produced in mass quantities. I'm not going to bother to look at the link; your description is enough to void its claim. Arabs see conspiracies everywhere; this is ultimately understandable as it does seem to be a facet of their lives, but please try to bring more compelling evidence next time. The sad truth is, Islam is doing more to discredit itself than anything the Jews and Christians ever could. It has been stated on this site many a time: if moderate Muslims do not agree with what is being perpetuated in their religion's name, then they need to stop it. Either way, someone's being "unIslamic," and if speaking out against extremism is unIslamic, does it really deserve to survive? I think it has the potential to be quite a positive force in the world, but first it needs to give up its dreams of world domination and delusions of victimization by massive Zionist(TM) and Christian conspiracies.

Also, YCB, please do not insult religion; I believe that there is a God, and so do a lot of other intelligent people on this planet. It's what you do with that belief, how it motivates you, that is important. And killing in God's name is more of an indicator of what you believe than of what He might want you to do. I rather do suspect that Allah is something of an invention, but more in his aspects than the original idea of there only being one God - a belief which originated with the Hebrews, I might want to point out (so if history is so important to Islam, why is it trying to eradicate the religion that provided its base?). It is my personal belief that Allah was used by Mohammed to justify his own actions - but if you want to argue with me on a rational basis, I will be happy to. Just don't flat-out tell me that there is no God, or that Allah's the real thing, and expect me to just accept it. I have my personal beliefs, and my suspicions, and both are subject to modification given events and facts and discussion.

Anyway, now that I've gotten that out of my system, I'd like to observe that in this letter, this doctor seems to be missing a few key concepts. First of all, it's pretty clear that he's trying the approach of "We Muslims are just like you, only we want to be accepted and take you over." This is the "virus" approach, where Muslims use Western freedoms to gain acceptance before trying to push their own cultural standards upon us. And while you may not like the way I state it, it is what happens: take the story of that town in . . . Michigan, I think, though I could be wrong (the one with the mosque blaring the prayer call) for instance. And CAIR saying they'd like the US government to be Islamic some day. Face it, it happens. And this is another instance of Islam trying to sneak under our radar, to play upon our sympathies to get into a position of superiority.

And why don't we want to join the International Court? Because we don't think it'll be effective, just like the UN. It will become a pawn for dictatorships and minorities seeking to exploit international goodwill. And a crime is a crime, I'll agree, but under sharia there are a lot of things that are punished that are not crimes: disagreeing with Islam, for instance.

One last thing (and I do apologize for the length of this). If he lived with "beautiful Americans," why is it that he wants them to come under the sharia and clothe themselves? I realize he never said that outright, but if he believes Islam will some day rule the planet, that is a logical consequence . . .
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 15:41 Comments || Top||

#72  Let's be real, an oil embargo would be a disaster for the Arabs and they know it, that's why they haven't tried since the 70s. Oil is a commodity and you can't forbid a single nation from buying a commodity without a blockade. The only way they could keep oil out of the US would be to not sell it to anybody.

Since the economies of the oil producing states are totally based on oil revenues they would collapse and governments would fall. Anarchy would reign and the west would probably move in to protect citizens (working in oil industries) and secure the oil fields in the process.

After the embargo of the 70s the US moved towards fuel efficient cars. I'm betting another embargo would find the US moving away from oil-based cars all together (probably towards advanced bio-desiel engines that can run on peanut oil or something along those lines).

So, short term bad, long term good. Bring it on.
Posted by: ruprecht || 05/16/2004 15:47 Comments || Top||

#73  ruprecht---OPEC and the rest of the world is one sick symbosis. They give us oil, we give them money and goods and they blow it on baubles and babes.

The sooner we get off the ME tit, the better off the WHOLE WORLD will be. This is a project bigger than the manhattin project in WW2. Get rid of the money going to the ME and you get rid of the jihadi problem. And they can go back to pounding sand. This transition out of ME oil is a HUGE undertaking, but what the hell, we need a real challenge.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 05/16/2004 15:54 Comments || Top||

#74  Atomic - excellent! Proper replies! My mistake you cant be a Yank - you didnt mention your might or guns once or threaten my physically once! And a nice construction on the concept of 'assumptions' too. However (and cut me some slack here, dude) when you say things to me (and I'm a totally unreligious unbearded camel-less 'dude/fellow/wee man/chap' remember) such as:

"It is you lot who proclaimed Taliban victory"

"in Fallujah, where a thousand of your heroes were mowed down"

"like your friends the dead jihadis"

"You lose, lose, lose and still proclaim your superiority at every turn"

"Remember Streicher and Goebbels, murder-inciting Hate America bigots; follow their path, share their fate".

And throw in for good measure :

"here in the states"


Well, so, err, forgive me for assuming that you are err, somewhat to the right of Charlton Heston i.e live in the house right next door to him in Malibu!

If you are truly near Scotland, well there is only that Atlantic in your way to your true heartland; when are you emmigrating?

And feel free to assume I fear an America that is out of control and creating a new world chaos rather than that I adore the Taliban or such other nonsensical irrelevance. You will find a lot of us by know you know, old chap...

YCB

PS take a gun if you go & mind the God (or god) squad - thay are as bad as the worse of the Koran bashers (but, naturally a lot more dangerous of course)... (you of course say Qu'ran if you prefer - you like your options)

PPS off to Cuba now (honest!!!!) so do feel free to let it rip in your reply. It might spare some other poor peacenik here from having the typed AK47 up his arse for DARING to dissent. I'll bring you back a cigar to insert in yours - that would be so funny as your gang remain still scared of the peasants that roll them...so scared they still deny them medicine. Nice...
Posted by: Yankee Chest Beater || 05/16/2004 16:04 Comments || Top||

#75  Doctor - what a fabulous balanced & measured post. I disagree with very little. If there were only more of you here then I for one would not get so hot headed or angry (ohh and the world would surely be a better place too!!!!).

A plane to catch...
Posted by: Yankee Chest Beater || 05/16/2004 16:09 Comments || Top||

#76  YCB:

A lot of those quotes are rather dead-on, aren't they? The Taliban did proclaim victory. Saddam thought we'd be throwing ourselves against the burning gates of Baghdad. Tactical engagements are lost but victory is still claimed. Maybe that's why he used them.

I think it's pretty clear that AC is with us, showing Western solidarity with a cause he believes in.

We need that kind of support if we're going to keep humanity from falling into the Dark Ages of Sharia.

And we need people who will make us question what we're doing, to make sure we stay on the right path. But we don't need you.
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 16:12 Comments || Top||

#77  And, YCB, I thank you for your compliment. I don't know, however, how much I was saying that was different from what other people on this site believe; I was just saying it a different way. My reaction is to your anger - we don't need people who will just complain and criticize and refuse to stand with us. Keeping a cool head is very important in such vital matters; just remember that.

And enjoy your flight.
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 16:14 Comments || Top||

#78  I think it's pretty clear that AC is with us

He sure is. AC is a Texan (if memory serves).
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 16:21 Comments || Top||

#79  I may have heard that at some point, and now that you say it it rings a bell.

AC - if this is true, how does the accent work? A Scottish-English mixed with a Southern drawl? A couple of my friends and I do a show on our college's radio station, and we have a Scottish-German character who's an absolute scream. But I find it hard to imagine a mix of that sort . . .
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 16:30 Comments || Top||

#80  Those quotes would apply to to those who demonize the United States and support its enemies in the present conflict. These are not necessarily Muslims, let alone all of them.

I am indeed in Texas, Lubbock to be exact, where I have lived and worked for 20 years.

Doc, the broad north country accent has some affinity for the Scots accent, and the two tend to blend in the border country. It is quite distinct from other English accents and Londoners, for example, often have trouble understanding it.
The Texan accent has some phonetic similarity to both English and Scots accents, though the overall effect is startlingly different. It is relatively easy to transition between the two once you have the knack for it. I speak Texan quite well after all these years, but I cannot do the flat Midwestern accent.

Remember the actor John Hillerman, who played the pompous English majordomo, Higgins, on Magnum PI? Hillerman is a native of Dennison, Texas.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 05/16/2004 17:52 Comments || Top||

#81  Texans rule! ;-)
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 17:54 Comments || Top||

#82  Yankee Chest Beater 2004-05-16 10:47:45 AM:
'Didn't shit in your pants my arse'! You wouldnt even cross the Atlantic in a plane for a holiday for 12 months, almost killing your airline industry! But I still like this brave fighting talk of 'turning their countries into glass'...

My parents, in there 80's, flew on vacation the week after 9/11. You can't even scare 80 year olds, you pantswetter.

Posted by: Jabba the Nutt || 05/16/2004 18:47 Comments || Top||

#83  LOL! YCB! You're doing the good work!
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:25 Comments || Top||

#84  "I fear an America that is out of control and creating a new world chaos."

The meme of the clueless.
Posted by: virginian || 05/16/2004 22:19 Comments || Top||

#85  Atomic Conspiracy

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your sister's armpits.

Jabba the Nutt

May your next male child look like Condaleeza Rice.

Shipman

May your dog have a love affair with your favorite lounge chair.

Yankee Chest Beater

May the Holy Koran be made the American Constitution.
Posted by: Muslim Lover || 05/16/2004 23:03 Comments || Top||

#86  Ah ML...since we're quoting and insulting at the same time allow me to just say:

"May the eggs of a thousand dung flys infest your scrotum".

Be well and stay away from the hookah.
Posted by: Valentine || 05/17/2004 1:24 Comments || Top||

#87  But ML, I don't have a sister.
I do have a crazy Quaker aunt who still makes every peacenik hatefest in the UK at age 80. She thought Stalin was the greatest leader of the 20th Century, but changed her tune after Mao came along.
Unfortunately, they don't have a thousand camels in Carlisle (where she lives). Would hippy or trotskyite fleas do? No shortage there.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 05/17/2004 2:29 Comments || Top||

#88  Dr. Khaled M. Batarfi, PLEASE.....spare us the same old dribble ,,it's .......B O R I N G!
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 05/17/2004 2:42 Comments || Top||

#89  Atomic Conspiracy, well stated Sir!
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 05/17/2004 2:44 Comments || Top||

#90  Worthsayingtwice, Brilliant!
Posted by: Lucky || 05/17/2004 3:17 Comments || Top||

#91  Hola! Soy en Havana Vieja. No tienemos los Yankee Chest Beateres aqui - es paradiso (sin medicines y 'burgers' claro).

I see Mr Atomic (aka 'Nuceelieaar' as the Pres' says) has been found out as to his true location. Not many stetsons in Carlisle were there 'matey'. Just be straight will you - it was SO obvious that my dumb assumption was right, dude!

Anyway, can I just get you guys to consider the possibility that any individual who does not agree with you at this time may not turn out to be a stars and stripes burning rabid Qu'ran bashing NUTTER! There are idiots on both side of this seemingly oily but often religiously labelled divide. However EVERYONE 'Stateside jumps to the conclusion that one is turban sporting, semtex wearing, anti western democracy NUTTER whnever 'non useful' dissent to the US is shown! Nothing could be further from the truth for me - I hate all NUTTERS with guns; so that goes for you both (within my secular little world I just base my judgment on behaviour and morality, and so you both lose, and I therefore have no friends!!!! ;-) )

Buenas noches muchachos;-)
Posted by: Havana Chest Beater || 05/17/2004 16:27 Comments || Top||


China-Japan-Koreas
Chinese banks told to sue debtors

Sunday, 16 May, 2004, 12:53 GMT 13:53 UK

China’s banks should sue the firms and people whose bad debts are destabilising the banking system, the country’s top financial regulator says. Liu Mingkang, head of the China Banking Regulatory Commission, used an Asian Development Bank meeting in South Korea to urge his charges to "get tough".

"You have got to sue your customers, to enhance a credit culture," he said. Correspondents say the idea is anathema to Chinese bankers, despite bad debts of more than $200bn. According to international credit rating agency Standard & Poor’s, non-performing loans at the four big state banks - between them holding 80% of loans - could amount to more than 40% of the overall loan book.
Normally, banks are fairly aggressive about pursuing debts. China’s major industries are renowned for being manipulated by high ranking officials in the PLA. Could it be that these loan officers are reluctant to begin proceedings against those who ultimately dictate bank policy?
Most of the defaulting debtors are state firms - and some are senior individuals in China’s hierarchy and their families. In addition, China’s legal system has a poor record when it comes to this kind of case.
BINGO! Legal immunity in the form of a closed cycle ownership loop.

Lance Off the boil?

Mr Liu’s urging forms part of the authorities’ attempts to shift some of the imbalances in China’s breakneck expansion. 2003 saw the economy grow at 9.1%, with investment in fixed assets up 47% in the first three months of 2004 on the previous year. According to Stanley Fischer - former International Monetary Fund number two and now vice-chairman of Citigroup - that spelled serious trouble for the banking system.

"It is inconceivable that those rates of investment can be efficient," he told investors at the ADB meeting. The distended state of the banking system is one result and needs to be fixed before 2007, when China’s commitments to the World Trade Organisation mean it has to open up much of the banking sector to foreign competition. It has already injected $45bn ($5.4bn; £3.1bn) into the Bank of China and the China Construction Bank.
Just like Hong Kong was supposed to have a larger degree of self-determinism by now. China will have this little financial disaster misunderstanding all tidied up in three years. Riiiiight!
Another $65bn could be on the way to bail out the banks, the Observer said on Sunday.
Isn’t this just the government forgiving bad loans to its own officials? In effect, this is merely China’s putative government robbing their taxpayers in order to line the pockets of their incompetent oligarchy politburo. Nothing to see here folks, now move along.
EMPHASIS ADDED
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 5:00:52 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  China’s putative government robbing their taxpayers

They have taxpayers in China?? Who knew..
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 17:15 Comments || Top||

#2  And people wonder why capitalism triumphed . . .
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 18:18 Comments || Top||


’Source’ Notes Syrian Technicians Killed in Yongch’on
Via the North Korea zone

JPP20040507000021 Tokyo Sankei Shimbun (Internet version-WWW) in Japanese 07 May 04 Morning Edition [Corrected version -- changing "Ryongchon" to "Yongch’on"; unattributed report: "DPRK Train Explosion: Syrian Technicians on Board; Debris Recovered by Team Wearing Protective Suits Immediately After Explosion; Possibility of Train Transporting Military Cargo"]
[FBIS Translated Text]
A military source familiar with Korean Peninsula affairs revealed on 6 May that Syrian technicians were killed in a train explosion incident that occurred on 22 April in Yongch’on in the northwestern part of the DPRK and that the damage was especially serious in that section of the train where the Syrians were aboard, along with large equipment. The same source noted that although the contents of the equipment are unknown, DPRK military-related personnel wearing protective suits arrived on the scene immediately after the explosion and removed debris only from that section of the train where the Syrian group had been aboard. Consequently, there is a strong likelihood that the accident occurred when military materials were being secretly transported between the DPRK and Syria.

According to the same source, the technicians aboard the train had been sent from the Syrian technical research center called Centre d’Etudes et de Recherche Scientific (CERS). Although CERS was established to promote science and technology development, it is suspected of playing a major role in Syria’s weapons of mass destruction development program.

The technicians and the cargo were reportedly aboard the same section of the train. The same source said it was uncertain whether the cargo was the source of the explosion or whether it exploded after being set off by an explosion on another section of the train. The source then said, "The damage to that section of the train was the most serious," noting that nearly 10 Syrians and accompanying North Koreans were killed.

The bodies of the Syrians were carried onto and transported home on 1 May by a Syrian aircraft, which had come to Pyongyang to deliver aid supplies.

Syrian and DPRK medical and military personnel who were involved in transporting [the Syrians and other victims] were also reportedly wearing protective suits similar to those worn by the DPRK military personnel who arrived on the scene immediately after the accident.

The same source said, "The action taken by Syria and the DPRK indicates that the cargo was top secret matter, which the two countries did not want to bring out into the open." With regard to the DPRK and Syria, the United States and other countries have indicated concern that the two countries are continuing to cooperate in the development of Syria’s "Scud-D" missiles, as well as chemical and biological weapons.

Concerning the cause of the explosion incident, the DPRK has explained that a train carrying fertilizer containing ammonium nitrate and a railroad tank carrying petroleum were being shunted, and, in the process, came into contact with electrical wires, due to carelessness.

[Description of Source: Tokyo Sankei Shimbun (Internet version-WWW) -- Internet version of daily newspaper published by Fuji Sankei Communications Group]
Posted by: Evert V. in NL || 05/16/2004 4:08:44 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Bet it was red fuming rock oil
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 22:04 Comments || Top||


N Korean train accident involved Syrian personnel and equipment
EFL
Syrian technicians accompanying unknown equipment were killed in the train explosion in North Korea on April 22, according to a report in a Japanese newspaper. A military specialist on Korean affairs revealed that the Syrian technicians were killed in the explosion in Ryongchon in the northwestern part of the country... The technicians were from the Syrian technical research center called Centre d’Etudes et de Recherche Scientific (CERS). Although CERS was established to promote science and technology development, it has been viewed as a major player in Syria’s weapons of mass destruction development program.
[that’s because Syria’s science and technology is pretty close to zero -- of course NKor’s science and technology may be even closer to zero]
Posted by: mhw || 05/16/2004 8:09:29 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I like the story about the heavy protective suits everyone wore to clean up the area of the train the Syrians were in, as well when they handled the bodies....wonder what they were transporting, hmmmmmm?
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2004 9:00 Comments || Top||

#2  We'll never know, but that boom may have been planned for by Langley.
What a nice thought that is.
Posted by: JerseyMike || 05/16/2004 9:54 Comments || Top||

#3  Speculation: The blast was arranged by the Chinese, as an assassination attempt on KJI -- a face-saving way to resolve the NK issue without provoking streams of refugees crossing into China.

That speculation is reinforced by the news that Syrians were amongst the personnel on the boomed train. While Syria is a closed society by Arab standards, and hard to infiltrate, it'd be a good deal easier for the Chinese to infiltrate a field agent amongst them than amongst the NKors. They probably wouldn't even need to infiltrate the incoming group of technicians, just hire one of the Arabs as a rent-a-boomer.

Posted by: Yank In Paris || 05/16/2004 10:07 Comments || Top||

#4  Actually it sounds like Calvin planned it, as in Calvin and Hobbes.

Q:A freight train full of bs is headed north at 11 teen miles an hour is stopped at the siding while a south bound train full of keroanium is headed south at 14 klips per sec. What is the speed of impact?

A: Atlanta
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 10:15 Comments || Top||

#5  Three countries get named as the axis of evil. One gets invaded and the other two have mega-train booms within two months, and you have to go back 50 years to find a similar boom anywhere in the world. Now tell me thats a coincidence!
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 10:37 Comments || Top||

#6  In the US the suits would have been used also if the train had been carrying chemicals.
Posted by: Super Hose || 05/16/2004 16:53 Comments || Top||

#7  Trains - why do they hate us?
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 05/16/2004 16:54 Comments || Top||

#8  Please delete the article i posted on the same story, I'm convinced that this has something to do with rocketfuel.
Posted by: Evert V. in NL || 05/16/2004 17:23 Comments || Top||

#9  "Now tell me thats a coincidence!"

Okay...its a coincidence. Once is happenstance...twice is coincidence...and three times is enemy action. I'm waiting for the the third one.
Posted by: Valentine || 05/17/2004 1:10 Comments || Top||


Europe
Sister of Djindic attacked, family threatened.
Let’s remember that not all terrorism is of the mass-murdering kind.
The sister of Serbia’s assassinated prime minister Zoran Djindjic has been attacked at her home and reportedly injected with an unknown substance. Unidentified men burst into Gordana Djindjic-Filipovic’s house south-west of Belgrade on Saturday night. She was in a "stable condition" after being taken to hospital for tests. Zoran Djindjic, a pro-western reformer who helped topple ex Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic, was shot dead by a Belgrade sniper in March last year. Thirteen suspects are being tried in connection with the assassination, although some have yet to be detained. Radio reports say Mrs Djindjic-Filipovic’s attackers threatened to kill the whole family if a key suspect in the murder case - Milorad Lukovic - was convicted.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 5:29:35 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


EU Ignores U.S. Sanctions on Syria
The European Union has decided to ignore U.S. sanctions on Syria. EU officials said the Bush administration’s decision to impose economic sanctions on Damascus would not affect plans by Brussels to increase trade with Syria. They said the EU planned to maintain a high-level dialogue with the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad to facilitate the signing of a trade agreement.

On Sunday, European Commission Vice President Loyola de Palacio was scheduled to arrive in Damascus to meet Assad and other Syrian leaders. Officials said the discussions would focus on the role of Syria in a regional energy network. Syria exports natural gas and has proposed serving as a way-station for the transfer of Egyptian gas to Europe.

Spain, which invited Assad to Madrid in early June, has criticized the U.S. sanctions on Syria. Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Moratinos said Europe and Spain must cooperate in supporting Syria as a Euro-Mediterranean partner.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 05/16/2004 9:23:23 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Then how about sanctions on the EU?
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 05/16/2004 22:15 Comments || Top||

#2  Syria exports natural gas and has proposed serving as a way-station for the transfer of Egyptian gas to Europe.

Perhaps it's time for some pipeline explosions.

In other news: Isn't "Egyptian gas" redundant?
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 22:19 Comments || Top||

#3  In a poll taken by Little Green Footballs asking which country the USA should go after the conflict in Iraq. The overwhelming majority said France.
The poll was not even close. The EU is an Oxymoron.

Posted by: Long Hair Republican || 05/17/2004 0:03 Comments || Top||


Fertilizer used in bombs goes missing in France (and still not found)
The article is a week old and the real news is that large quantities of explosives are going missing in Europe and not being found. The ton of explosives stolen in Norway a month ago is still missing. Methinks someone (and probably several groups) is stocking up for a campaign of major synchronized booms. I still think the Athens Olympics will be the target. The French police were scrambling Tuesday to locate 500 kilograms of missing fertilizer that could be used to make a powerful bomb.

The 1,100 pounds of ammonium nitrate is believed to have been stolen last month from the port of Honfleur in Normandy, according to officials quoted by local news media.

The officials, who discovered the loss on Monday, said large quantities of the fertilizer were stored at the port without any particular security measures.

Sales of ammonium nitrate are strictly regulated in the European Union, where rules require that the fertilizer be produced with large, dense granules to prevent it from absorbing oil and being transformed into bomb material. But the granules can easily be broken up with commercial grinders. Or a kitchen blender if you have the patience.
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 8:11:17 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Chechnya,Russia,Balkans would be my top guesses for eventual destination.
Posted by: Stephen || 05/16/2004 20:28 Comments || Top||

#2  Chechnya,Russia,Balkans would be my top guesses for eventual destination

Coals to Newcastle!
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 20:36 Comments || Top||

#3  Stephen - it sound like they've got enough to do that and Athens.

I'm sure such fine, upstanding people (according to the moonbats, anyway) would hate to discriminate against the Greeks.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 20:36 Comments || Top||

#4  The officials, who discovered the loss on Monday, said large quantities of the fertilizer were stored at the port without any particular security measures.

Maybe they'll implement stricter security when the frogs begin to croak.
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 22:10 Comments || Top||


Libya, Germany fail to agree on bomb compensation
German and Libyan officials failed to agree on compensation for victims of a Libyan-ordered nightclub bombing in 1986 in weekend talks, but hope to clinch a deal next month, German lawyers said today. Hans-Joachim Ehrig said there was still a ’’significant gap’’ over payouts to more than 160 people wounded in the blast at West Berlin’s ’’La Belle’’ disco, in which two US soldiers and a Turkish woman were killed.

Without a deal, Germany and the European Union say Libya cannot join the EU’s partnership agreement with Mediterranean nations, which would help cement its international rehabilitation and pave the way for more trade and aid. German lawyers and members of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi’s charitable foundation held a fourth round of negotiations in Berlin on Friday and yesterday, which the Germans had hoped would prove decisive. ’’We’ve made rapid progress in these last four rounds of talks and this gives us justified hope that we can reach full agreement in a fifth round in June,’’ Ehrig said.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 05/16/2004 5:44:33 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Old Europe waking up to Moroccan terrorism. Slowly.
They speak in an ever changing code. The word for prison might be hospital. Passport becomes book, or sometimes djellaba, the simple robe worn by men in North Africa. Explosives is honey or sneakers.

And when someone says "the soccer team is ready," an illegal operation is about to start.

The Moroccan branch of militant Islam is not new. But intelligence officials here and in Europe say that until this past year they failed to penetrate its communications and missed its significance. The French worried about Algerians and Tunisians; the Spanish focused on Basques. Belgium, whose Muslim population is largely Moroccan, had fewer than three dozen counterterror specialists in its police force.

Since suicide bombings in Casablanca in May last year that killed dozens, and the devastating train bombings in Madrid this March, Moroccan groups have been seen as central to the terrorist threat in Europe, forcing intelligence and law-enforcement officials to adjust their strategies.

It has been a tortuous undertaking. Morocco has been among the West's closest Arab allies and has long been instrumental in pursuing Arab-Israeli reconciliation. Although Moroccan and European officials now agree that there is a new Moroccan threat, they disagree over its nature and origin — and how to contain it.

One problem is simply identifying major Moroccan terrorists. Two months after the Madrid train bombings, Spanish investigators believe that its mastermind may still be at large.

The French and Belgian police successfully dismantled Moroccan cells in their countries after the Madrid attacks, but they are convinced that other cells may have burrowed further underground.

Moroccan terrorists, intelligence and police experts say, know how to blend in.

"There are cells in which the Moroccans are well integrated into the population," Pierre de Bousquet, the head of the Directorate for Territorial Surveillance, France's counterintelligence service, said in an interview. "So they do not seem suspicious. They work. They have kids. They have fixed addresses. They pay the rent. The networks are dispersed throughout Europe and are very autonomous."

In addition to uneven cooperation among law enforcement and intelligence agencies within Europe, there is the problem of tensions that have surfaced between European and Moroccan officials.

Although the two sides are working together to investigate the Madrid bombings, the Moroccans have complained that their pleas for help after the Casablanca attacks were largely ignored until terrorists struck the heart of Europe.

They also have expressed frustration that laws in many European countries are not tough enough.

"The Madrid bombings finally have forced the Europeans to make their investigations more serious and their cooperation quicker and more operational," Gen. Hamidou Laanigri, Morocco's chief of security, said in an interview. "But we are victims of laws and guarantees that protect the rights of individuals at the expense of cracking down against organized crime."

Intelligence and law-enforcement officials in Spain, France and Belgium say that their Moroccan colleagues have refused to face the fact that Moroccans have banded into autonomous terror cells that can carry out attacks without outside organization, logistical support or money.

The day after the Madrid bombings, senior Moroccan officials were shown a video made by the bombers in which a masked man explained in Arabic who was responsible for the attack. The Moroccans insisted that the voice was that of a European, while the Spanish authorities said he was Moroccan, according to Moroccan and Spanish officials.

Ángel Acebes, Spain's interior minister at the time, announced publicly the next evening that the man had a Moroccan accent, and the Moroccans backed down.

Many European officials also have expressed frustration with Morocco's tendency to blame Al Qaeda for ordering and organizing every plot, rather than view it as a more widespread ideological inspiration.

"It's easier for the Moroccans to place responsibility outside Morocco and blame Al Qaeda, because it frees them from responsibility," said one senior Belgian intelligence official. "They refuse to see there's an internal component of the problem, one of poverty and despair."

For their part, Moroccan officials, who have issued 44 international arrest warrants for suspected terrorists, have accused European countries of being slow or unwilling to extradite suspects they have captured.

Britain, for example, has refused to extradite Muhammad al-Gerbouzi, whom Morocco has identified as a battle-hardened veteran of Afghanistan and a planner of the Casablanca attacks as well as a founder of the Moroccan Combatant Islamic Group, identified by the United Nations as a terrorist network connected to Al Qaeda.

An international arrest warrant from Morocco showing a blurry photo of a bearded Mr. Gerbouzi states that he is wanted for "criminal association with relation to a terrorist enterprise, preparation of the commission of terrorist acts, collection of funds to finance terrorist acts, an attack on the internal security of the state and complicity in the falsification and use of passports."

According to General Laanigri, Osama bin Laden authorized Mr. Gerbouzi to open a training camp for Moroccans in Afghanistan in the beginning of 2001. Last December, Mr. Gerbouzi was tried in absentia in Morocco for his involvement in the Casablanca attacks and given a 20-year sentence.

"We know for certain from confessions of those we have arrested that the preparations for the Casablanca attack were made at a meeting in Istanbul in January 2003 that al-Gerbouzi attended," General Laanigri said.

But the British government has no extradition treaty with Morocco and has refused to extradite Mr. Gerbouzi, a 44-year-old father of six who lives in a rundown apartment in north London. British officials say there is not enough evidence to arrest him, General Laanigri said.

In an interview with The Guardian last month, Mr. Gerbouzi dismissed charges that he was linked to radical Islamic groups as "complete nonsense," adding that he had never been to Afghanistan, worshiped at an Islamic center in west London and drove his children to school. "I have nothing to hide," he said.

Some senior intelligence officials in Europe said they suspected that Mr. Gerbouzi was being protected by the British authorities because he was an informer, while others said he was no longer dangerous because he was so carefully watched. Another complicating factor is the fact that Morocco still has the death penalty while European Union countries do not.

British officials declined to comment on the case.

European officials also have complained that their Moroccan counterparts reflexively tend to blame the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group for all terrorist activity, while many Europeans intelligence officials are convinced that the group is more an ideological concept than a structured organization. Almost half of the Moroccans wanted on international terrorist arrest warrants issued by Morocco are listed as having links to the group.

The group is the successor to an earlier guerrilla organization that wanted to overthrow Morocco's monarchy. But faced with the improbability of such an ambitious goal, a number of its followers moved to Europe.

In Europe as well as Morocco, they were recruited by Al Qaeda and sent as volunteers to Afghanistan, where Moroccans had set up their own training camp. By the end of the 1990's Moroccans who trained in Afghanistan were calling themselves the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group.

But European intelligence officials said the group has no hierarchy, membership roster or formal manifesto and has never claimed responsibility for a terrorist attack.

"It is reassuring for the Moroccans to give a name to the radicals," said one French intelligence official. "But it's a virtual movement." Another French official described it as "a plant that doesn't need to root in soil that appears suddenly and grows without an apparent structure."

In 2002 the group, known by its initials in French, G.I.C.M., was put on a United Nations list of terrorist organizations linked to Al Qaeda, and in 2003 was added to the State Department's list of terrorist organizations.

Months after the Casablanca attacks, Morocco began to link many of those suspected of involvement with the organization.

"Now we have a situation where Morocco gives you a long list, tells you everyone on the list is a member of G.I.C.M. and asks you to put them all in jail," said one senior Belgian official. "You cannot just issue arrest warrants without proof."

The Moroccans have also altered their claims about evidence. Senior intelligence officials from two European countries said they had been told by their Moroccan counterparts days after the Casablanca attacks that the attacks had been ordered and financed by Al Qaeda, even though the suicide attackers were Moroccans from a slum outside Casablanca.

The proof, the Moroccan officials said at the time, was a bank transfer to the group of between $50,000 and $70,000 from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian militant.

Moroccan officials now say that there was no bank transfer, only the informal disbursal of several smaller amounts of money as charity payments to the families of Moroccans who had fought in Afghanistan.

When Jean-Louis BruguiÚre, France's most senior antiterrorist investigatory magistrate, visited Morocco in late March he was shown evidence that led directly to arrests outside Paris several days later and the disbanding of a Moroccan cell suspected of involvement in the Casablanca bombings.

"We would have had a hard time finding them," Mr. de Bousquet, the French counterterrorist expert, said. "Morocco helped provide information that led to the arrests."
Posted by: Dan Darling || 05/16/2004 11:47:15 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  They refuse to see there's an internal component of the problem, one of poverty and despair."

I think they're both refusing to see the problem is one of religous zealotry.
Posted by: Lux || 05/16/2004 14:51 Comments || Top||

#2  If the problem were one of poverty and despair then the streets in Cairo, Ryad and Damacus would be oozing with blood as raped, escaped Soudanese slaves would settle scores with Muslims.

The problem is not one of poverty and despair but one of an ideology who tells Muslims and specially Arabs they are the herrensvolk elected by God to rule the universe, and the right to kill, plunder and rape the kaffirs so getting anything less is an injustice nand against God's will.
Posted by: JFM || 05/16/2004 15:15 Comments || Top||

#3  What JFM said.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 16:24 Comments || Top||

#4  One thing is for certain: I'm happy as hell that Morocco was not awarded the 2010 World Cup by FIFA.

FIFA painted itself into a corner with the vote rigging scheme to award Germany in 2006 so they were "honor-bound" (I know; FIFA is as honorable as the UN, e.g. not) to give the tournament to an African nation. Morocco, Egypt, and South Africa were the three likeliest but two have chronic Islamonaut problems and the R.S.A., although getting progressively worse, may pull it off.

Still, US progress in soccer is on track and we might even manage a Final Four appearance but I'll be watching on television. There's no way I'll travel to the Neo-Caliph without a weapon.
Posted by: JDB || 05/16/2004 16:33 Comments || Top||

#5  ISLAMIC extremist networks in the Netherlands are recruiting and funding Moroccan youths for the jihad in Kashmir and other places. That is the most important finding in the annual report of the Dutch Internal Security Service (BVD). The report mentions the case of two young Moroccans from the southern Dutch city of Eindhoven who went to Kashmir in December 2001.

Source:www.janes.com
Posted by: Dutchgeek || 05/16/2004 16:35 Comments || Top||

#6  It would be interesting to set up a sting and recuit a bunch of youthful riff-raff and put them on a direct flight to GITMO.
Posted by: Super Hose || 05/16/2004 17:21 Comments || Top||

#7  What JFM said.
Is the rest about kick ball?
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:28 Comments || Top||


Man claims Allah told him to destroy Ferrari
A Dublin businessman awoke last Wednesday morning to find that his brand new e200,000 Ferrari had been destroyed by a man claiming to have been instructed by Allah.

According to the gardai , Safet Bukoshi from Kosovo, who is in his mid-30s, began his rampage early last Wednesday morning when he set the Ferrari and a Honda Civic on fire. Two fire brigades arrived at the scene in Clonskeagh, south Dublin, after two loud explosions were heard by local residents. Both cars were destroyed in the blasts.

As garda forensic experts examined the scene later that morning, Bukoshi, who lives in Clonskeagh, returned with petrol cans and began to douse petrol on more vehicles, including his own wife’s car. He was apprehended after the forensics team called local gardai. Bukoshi claimed Allah had told him to set the cars on fire. He was detained by gardai, who have recommended that he be charged with criminal damage at the Circuit Court.

District Superintendent Liam McCahey described it as ``a most unusual incident’’. He said Bukoshi had been remanded in custody in Clover Hill prison in Clondalkin, where he had been given a psychiatric assessment. According to gardai,Bukoshi, who claimed he was an Albanian, has lived in Ireland for about five years. He and his Kosovar wife have four children.

``He has not come to our attention before,’’said McCahey. ``He will first be charged with setting fire to the Ferrari and will then be charged separately for the Honda Civic.We will probably seek to prosecute him in the Circuit Court.’’
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 05/16/2004 10:56:44 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Wait ... wait ... let me guess!

This guy was so "humiliated" that anyone else would dare to own a car nicer than his wife's that he was compelled by religious fervor to destroy both vehicles.

Tell me I'm wrong!
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 15:33 Comments || Top||

#2  Shame and honor, Zen, shame and honor.

We need to start prosecuting these loonies harshly. This kind of thing is simply not acceptable.
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 15:48 Comments || Top||

#3  By the time this guy did this, he should have acclimatised to a new culture, not burning cars. The fact that he claims Allan made him do it null and voids the case. And what about his Albanian-Kosovan wife, maybe he couldn't take any more, and her name was Allanah. Deport the lot.
Posted by: rhodesiafever || 05/16/2004 16:20 Comments || Top||

#4  If I claim that I killed a man because an alien mothership had me under the power of a mind-control ray, that would not be admissible in court. The judge wouldn't be able to stop laughing long enough to sentence me.

How is that different from "being told to by Allah"? As I said, this is not acceptable.
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 16:23 Comments || Top||

#5  as they once said in Road & Track, "There are somethings that in another car would be absolutely unacceptable, but then allowances do have to be made. After all it is a Ferrari."
Posted by: cheaderhead || 05/16/2004 16:23 Comments || Top||

#6 
he set the Ferrari and a Honda Civic on fire
Whew! At least he didn't get the CRV. :-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 16:27 Comments || Top||

#7  Barbara, you drive a CRV?? I feel your pain....
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 16:48 Comments || Top||

#8  Hey, Rafael - I love my CRV. It's a great car.

At least until I can afford a Hummer. :-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 16:56 Comments || Top||

#9  It's a great car.

Yes, I suppose. But I still think the driver's side door shouldn't rattle at highway speeds.

They say you shouldn't buy a car made on a Friday or on a Monday. My CRV was started on a Friday, and finished on a Monday.
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 17:08 Comments || Top||

#10  My CRV was started on a Friday, and finished on a Monday.

Well, at least the poor thing had an entire weekend to recover from the first set of wounds inflicted upon it.
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 17:31 Comments || Top||

#11  Rafael - I think it's just your car, not CRVs in general. Nothing in mine rattles at highway speeds (unless I brake suddenly and the 3-foot iron prybar in the back shifts).

You were probably joking about the day of the week a car is made, but in case you weren't, how would one know what day a car was made on?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 18:18 Comments || Top||

#12  Yes it was a joke. Cars that are in the shipping phase should have a 'date of production' sticker on them somewhere. But upon arrival to the dealership these things get discarded. I guess it is possible to find out, at the risk of annoying the dealer :)
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 19:05 Comments || Top||

#13  Gloves are off.

Stand by on missle tubes 2 5 9
NOBODY MESSS WITH THE SCUDERIA
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:32 Comments || Top||

#14  Lorenzio AkaBar!
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:33 Comments || Top||


Home Front: WoT
Rumsfeld Established Secret Program to Photo POWs in Sexual Positions
The roots of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal lie not in the criminal inclinations of a few Army reservists but in a decision, approved last year by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, to expand a highly secret operation, which had been focussed on the hunt for Al Qaeda, to the interrogation of prisoners in Iraq. ..... The Pentagon’s operation, known inside the intelligence community by several code words, including Copper Green, encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners in an effort to generate more intelligence about the growing insurgency in Iraq. ....

A special-access program, or sap—subject to the Defense Department’s most stringent level of security—was set up, with an office in a secure area of the Pentagon. .... In theory, the operation enabled the Bush Administration to respond immediately to time-sensitive intelligence: commandos crossed borders without visas and could interrogate terrorism suspects deemed too important for transfer to the military’s facilities at Guantánamo, Cuba. They carried out instant interrogations—using force if necessary—at secret C.I.A. detention centers scattered around the world. .....

One Pentagon official who was deeply involved in the program was Stephen Cambone, who was named Under-Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in March, 2003. .... He shared Rumsfeld’s disdain for the analysis and assessments proffered by the C.I.A., viewing them as too cautious, and chafed, as did Rumsfeld, at the C.I.A.’s inability, before the Iraq war, to state conclusively that Saddam Hussein harbored weapons of mass destruction. Cambone’s military assistant, Army Lieutenant General William G. (Jerry) Boykin, was also controversial. Last fall, he generated unwanted headlines after it was reported that, in a speech at an Oregon church, he equated the Muslim world with Satan.....

In mid-2003, the special-access program was regarded in the Pentagon as one of the success stories of the war on terror. .... By then, the war in Iraq had begun. The sap was involved in some assignments in Iraq, the former official said. C.I.A. and other American Special Forces operatives secretly teamed up to hunt for Saddam Hussein and—without success—for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. But they weren’t able to stop the evolving insurgency. ....

... according to the military report, the American and Coalition forces knew little about the insurgency: “Human intelligence is poor or lacking . . . due to the dearth of competence and expertise. . . . The intelligence effort is not coördinated since either too many groups are involved in gathering intelligence or the final product does not get to the troops in the field in a timely manner.” The success of the war was at risk; something had to be done to change the dynamic. ....

The solution, endorsed by Rumsfeld and carried out by Stephen Cambone, was to get tough with those Iraqis in the Army prison system who were suspected of being insurgents. A key player was Major General Geoffrey Miller, the commander of the detention and interrogation center at Guantánamo, who had been summoned to Baghdad in late August to review prison interrogation procedures. The internal Army report on the abuse charges, written by Major General Antonio Taguba in February, revealed that Miller urged that the commanders in Baghdad change policy and place military intelligence in charge of the prison. The report quoted Miller as recommending that “detention operations must act as an enabler for interrogation.” ....

Miller’s concept, as it emerged in recent Senate hearings, was to “Gitmoize” the prison system in Iraq—to make it more focussed on interrogation. He also briefed military commanders in Iraq on the interrogation methods used in Cuba—methods that could, with special approval, include sleep deprivation, exposure to extremes of cold and heat, and placing prisoners in “stress positions” for agonizing lengths of time. ....

Rumsfeld and Cambone went a step further, however: they expanded the scope of the sap, bringing its unconventional methods to Abu Ghraib. The commandos were to operate in Iraq as they had in Afghanistan. The male prisoners could be treated roughly, and exposed to sexual humiliation. ....

Cambone then made another crucial decision, the former intelligence official told me: not only would he bring the sap’s rules into the prisons; he would bring some of the Army military-intelligence officers working inside the Iraqi prisons under the sap’sauspices. “So here are fundamentally good soldiers—military-intelligence guys—being told that no rules apply,” the former official, who has extensive knowledge of the special-access programs, added. ....

Hard-core special operatives, some of them with aliases, were working in the prison. The military police assigned to guard the prisoners wore uniforms, but many others—military intelligence officers, contract interpreters, C.I.A. officers, and the men from the special-access program—wore civilian clothes. It was not clear who was who, even to Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, then the commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade, and the officer ostensibly in charge. ....

By fall, according to the former intelligence official, the senior leadership of the C.I.A. had had enough. .... “The C.I.A.’s legal people objected,” and the agency ended its sap involvement in Abu Ghraib, the former official said. The C.I.A.’s complaints were echoed throughout the intelligence community. There was fear that the situation at Abu Ghraib would lead to the exposure of the secret sap, and thereby bring an end to what had been, before Iraq, a valuable cover operation. .....

There may have been a serious goal, in the beginning, behind the sexual humiliation and the posed photographs. It was thought that some prisoners would do anything — including spying on their associates — to avoid dissemination of the shameful photos to family and friends. ....

In 2003, Rumsfeld’s apparent disregard for the requirements of the Geneva Conventions while carrying out the war on terror had led a group of senior military legal officers from the Judge Advocate General’s (jag) Corps to pay two surprise visits within five months to Scott Horton, who was then chairman of the New York City Bar Association’s Committee on International Human Rights. ..... The military officials were most alarmed about the growing use of civilian contractors in the interrogation process, Horton recalled. “They said there was an atmosphere of legal ambiguity being created as a result of a policy decision at the highest levels in the Pentagon." ....

The abuses at Abu Ghraib were exposed on January 13th, when Joseph Darby, a young military policeman assigned to Abu Ghraib, reported the wrongdoing to the Army’s Criminal Investigations Division. He also turned over a CD full of photographs. .... Rumsfeld’s explanation to the White House ... was reassuring: “‘We’ve got a glitch in the program. We’ll prosecute it.’ The cover story was that some kids got out of control. ... Nobody will talk. So the only people left to prosecute are those who are undefended—the poor kids at the end of the food chain.” ....

The former intelligence official told me he feared that one of the disastrous effects of the prison-abuse scandal would be the undermining of legitimate operations in the war on terror, which had already suffered from the draining of resources into Iraq. He portrayed Abu Ghraib as “a tumor” on the war on terror. .... The Pentagon consultant made a similar point. Cambone and his superiors, the consultant said, “created the conditions that allowed transgressions to take place. And now we’re going to end up with another Church Commission” .... Abu Ghraib had sent the message that the Pentagon leadership was unable to handle its discretionary power. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 05/16/2004 10:59:03 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I am to the point that, I do not give a flying fuck how humiliated a bunch of murderers feel. If sexual humiliation is what it takes to make them talk and save the lives of Allied troops and of truly innocent Iraqis, I say DO IT!
Posted by: Anonymous4617 || 05/16/2004 11:57 Comments || Top||

#2  If they feel sexually humiliated I dont really care either..they can thank their bloody lucky stars we didn't decide to flay them alive or put them into plastic shredders or shoot every third one of them just for sh*ts and giggles. Comparisons of us to other dictators and torture regimes are false. We are not always good guys, but we damn straight aren't the most evil ones out there.
Posted by: Valentine || 05/16/2004 14:42 Comments || Top||

#3  Exclusive: same white porch chair turns up in different terror videos, proving that Mossad, Charles Johnson and the CIA are responsible for all terror blamed on Muslims. Marc Perkel for President. "Get Out of the Dark and Go With Marc."

http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000233.html
Posted by: Muslim Lover || 05/16/2004 15:05 Comments || Top||

#4  Keep in mind Seymour Hersh is a Chomskyite, a habitual liar, and in general a very nasty piece of work.
Posted by: virginian || 05/16/2004 15:06 Comments || Top||

#5  I am to the point that, I do not give a flying fuck how humiliated a bunch of murderers feel.

But the question is: would you give a flying fuck about how humiliated a bunch of Iraqi non-murderers would feel? And whose word exactly are you taking that all those humiliated were "murderers"? Has there even been such a claim made by the prison officials, that all the people there are "murderers"? Or are you just feverishly hoping that everyone there is a murderer, lest it turns out that some of them aren't?

If sexual humiliation is what it takes to make them talk and save the lives of Allied troops and of truly innocent Iraqis, I say DO IT!

If these techniques have brought any result so far, we've not yet been told about it.

My guess is that such tactics have probably cost the lives of Americans and innocent Iraqis. If I was an Iraqi and I knew that the Americans were actually being *civilised* with suspects, I'd inform them of suspicious moves I'd noted -- if I was wrong, then the suspect would just get some hours or days of harsh-but-not-too-harsh treatment and then he'd be let go. Not too bad, to possibly save the lives of many more innocents.

But if I was an Iraqi and I knew that the Americans were in the habit of torturing and humiliating people, no way would I hand over some possibly innocent fellow Iraqi to their hands, to be sexually molested, humiliated, tortured by Americans. In that case I would want to be absolutely certain before I told any American about *any* suspicious Iraqis. Which means I wouldn't inform them until it was too late for it to make a difference.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 15:37 Comments || Top||

#6  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Victory Now Please TROLL || 05/16/2004 15:55 Comments || Top||

#7  Aris, what you say is true, that many Iraqis will turn away from cooperation as a result of this scandal. But how many? I'd venture that the number of Iraqis informing Americans about suspicious activity is very, very small. The ones that do are doing so under tremendous risk, and they are probably motivated by reasons that are far more important than some one-time prisoner abuse scandal.
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 16:14 Comments || Top||

#8  Aris,

Stop trolling and go finish those Olympic venues. We Americans are coming over there to win a bunch of medals and we don't like shoddy facilities!
Posted by: JDB || 05/16/2004 16:42 Comments || Top||

#9  "As it stands right now, it is clear that this is a nation full of crying women."

Insert crying Dimocrats and you have the picture.
Posted by: Bill Nelson || 05/16/2004 16:47 Comments || Top||

#10  JDB> Unlike what you may think, "troll" doesn't mean "person that disagrees with you". It doesn't even mean "person that annoys you". And (though I know that this may surprise you), it doesn't even mean "person who disagreed with the Iraq invasion".

I'm not a troll. Even though I'm quite certain that I'm a nuisance to many of you who only like to hear the echoes of your own thoughts reaffirmed, that's not the definition of a troll either.

And as a sidenote, since I'm not a construction worker I can't "go finish those Olympic venues".

Now why don't you stop being a little nationalistic fuck instead?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 16:53 Comments || Top||

#11  Would someone kindly take the time to explain to me the difference between the hooded folk who offed Berg, the hooded folk who formed homoerotic pyramids in the two cell blocks set aside for the hardest of the hardcore at Abu G, and the hooded propagandists in the LEFTmedia???
Posted by: Garrison || 05/16/2004 16:54 Comments || Top||

#12  Aris isn't a troll. He's a bigot.

Get the terms straight, people.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 05/16/2004 17:23 Comments || Top||

#13  I'm proud to be a nationalistic f*ck!
(Clearly, nationalism is the ultimate sin to Katsaris.)
Throughout our 228 year history, Americans have done a lot of good in the world and very little bad.
We're a good people.
This "article" by Seymour "My Lai Massacre" Hersh is a pile of horseshit and has already been refuted by the Pentagon.
And what we do to Iraqi detainees isn't based on what the "average Iraqi" will do next based on the prisoners' treatment--all Iraqis know well that whatever we do to their fellow Iraqis in Abu Ghraib can't begin to touch what Saddam had done to thousands of their countrymen in the same place.
Why do you post here, AK, you America-hating, Communist troll?
This is an American blog and most of the posters are proud to be Americans--why do you come here if you continually have a problem with that?
Islamist terrorists declared war on America, our nation.
We are fighting back as a nation, with the help of 36 other countries.
Most of us are proud to do so--I had ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War.
My dad fought in WWII, when Hitler managed to round up 38,000 of most of Greece's Jews.
Stop with the USA bashing. Now.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 17:25 Comments || Top||

#14  Robert Crawford> No, you are a troll, and Jen's a bigot. Learn the meaning of the words.

Jen> "Why do you post here, AK, you America-hating, Communist troll? "

I'm not America-hating, I'm not Communist, and I'm not a troll. I dare you to find me anything of mine that I *actually* said, not of the things that you *imagined* me (in your diseased little mind) saying, that indicates any of the three above.

"This is an American blog "

It's located in the *Inter*net, and I didn't see an "Only Americans should post" disclaimer.

"and most of the posters are proud to be Americans--why do you come here if you continually have a problem with that?"

I don't continually have a problem with that. I only have a problem with that when you are using American pride as an excuse to ignore or distort facts. The same way that I now have a problem with it when you are using American pride as an excuse to call me a troll, a Communist and America-hating when I'm neither of the three.

"Islamist terrorists declared war on America, our nation. We are fighting back as a nation, with the help of 36 other countries?"

Did I ever deny that?

"Stop with the USA bashing."

I don't bash the USA. Except in the fevered imagininings of your diseased mind, ofcourse.

"Clearly, nationalism is the ultimate sin to Katsaris"

One of the ultimate sin's most deadly expressions, yeah.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 17:40 Comments || Top||

#15  I never use American pride to ignore or distort facts.
I do use American self-interest as a guide, though.
In our dealings with other countries, we think too much about what's good for them and not what's good for us.
Time to get selfish.
If you bastards on the Left didn't want America to rise up and be filled with national fury and take it to war, you should have talked Bin Laden out of declaring war on America.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 17:44 Comments || Top||

#16  If you bastards on the Left didn't want America to rise up and be filled with national fury and take it to war,

Actually I did want America to rise up in fury and take it to war. So there's yet *another* assumption of yours about me shot down.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 17:48 Comments || Top||

#17  You are a nut, Katsaris--one of those crazy Greeks that's had sex with too many goats, drunk to much ouzo and who was born with feta cheese for brains.
Whatsa matter?
Didn't the Americans tip you well enough when you worked as a drinks waiter on that cruise ship?
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 17:51 Comments || Top||

#18  Jen, you might want to calm down; I've noticed you've been very touchy during the last few weeks. I've disagreed with stuff that Aris has said, too, but that doesn't give me an excuse to blast him. You only do that when they say something truly stupid. And as for this being an American blog, so what? We need the opinions of others. We need to talk with them. We need to learn from them. And they need to learn from us. We're not doing any favors to those who come here wanting to discuss if we blast them for having different opinions. It's only to be expected. Somewhere between your opinion, and Aris's, and even Murat's, is the truth. And we need to find that before time runs out for all of us.

Having said that, I do agree with you that we should be proud to Americans. We should respect and defend our national heritage, because if we don't, if it isn't important to us, then some one else will be glad to come along and replace it for us.

I don't mean to reprimand you, not at all. Whatever the reason (and there are many, or so it is claimed), America doesn't have a great reputation in the world. It's a reputation that is undeserved. We aren't perfect, but when you compare us to other countries, we're light-years ahead of them. What we need to do is to prove to others that Americans aren't the ignorant and arrogant bigots that the left and most of the world so often claims - while keeping our best interests in mind all the while. We need to correct others when they're wrong, but (hard as this is for me to admit, as I'm someone who claims to always be right) we do need to allow for the possibility that we might not be entirely right, either. And if that's the case, we need to fix it. That's how America got to be great: fixing her mistakes instead of hiding them.

America didn't start this war, but we do need to end it, and it's people like you, Jen, who help to remind us of just how important it is that America be kept first and foremost in our minds. Just don't let it get out of hand, or you'll find yourself becoming like the bastards we're fighting.
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 17:54 Comments || Top||

#19  I see you're down to the incoherent insults stage. Faster than I expected, though that's where you always end up in.

I wonder -- do you even know what you are angry about? How exactly did I supposedly bash America in this thread? When I said that I believe that the abuse at the prison may have cost American lives, while others claimed that it may have saved them? I genuinely believe what I said. So how is that America-bashing, please let me know?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 17:56 Comments || Top||

#20  Aris is certainly not a troll. He makes a legitimate point and its a lot more coherent than most of the frothing at the mouth found in the mainstream media, not to mention some of the people attacking him here. Disclaimer: Aris used to drive me totally nuts, until one day I realized that he is representative of a large section of society although considerably more articulate and knowleable than most. Love or hate Aris, but be aware that a lot of people think like him. Fail to engage with people like Aris and you will lose.
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 18:03 Comments || Top||

#21  Phil. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with you about AK.
He's never managed to put together a coherent thought or position to "engage" with him on; it's always vitriolic, inchoate raging at most of the rest of us who think what we think, based on our research, convictions, extensive reading, reasoned thought, patriotism and Conservative ideology.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 18:08 Comments || Top||

#22  Aris is right that the prison abuse may cost lives. Think about it from a soldier's point of view. Would you rather your enemy surrender or fight to the death? If he keeps on fighting because he'd rather die than show up in photos on the BBC website, you're more likely to die too.

Please stick around, Aris--this American is interested in hearing from you.

Posted by: James || 05/16/2004 18:09 Comments || Top||

#23  Aris is part of the segment of the world's population known as "bitter losers". He's more interested in crowing about the failings of the US than dealing with the failings of his own society.

Aris -- the problem I have with you is that you're entirely too quick to believe crap like the allegations Hersh has made. Ya know those kooks that planted bombs in Greece last week? Hersh is a cheerleader for people like that. He gets off on smashing society. He'll believe any story you tell him, and the uglier it is, the better, so long as it's something bad about the US.

I will apologize for calling you a bigot; I read entirely too much into your first few comments. I've run into entirely too many Europeans who think Europe is the end-all and be-all of culture, and sometimes I see (or think I see) that attitude in your comments.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 05/16/2004 18:13 Comments || Top||

#24  Aris=smart guy, not a troll, and doesn't give a fuck about prevailing Greek or European attitudes; a rare rare beast where he's from I assure you. I am a fan.

And since I do my share of trolling myself, I know one when I see one.
Posted by: BMN || 05/16/2004 18:17 Comments || Top||

#25  BMN, are you sure you want to proudly proclaim the fact that you're a troll?
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 18:19 Comments || Top||

#26  I'm not a troll--I bait trolls. That's trolling. I'm not proud of it particularly but it can be fun.

Aris is no troll.
Posted by: BMN || 05/16/2004 18:20 Comments || Top||

#27  "America doesn't have a great reputation in the world."
Actually, it does have a great reputation--I've travelled extensively in Europe, China, Egypt, the Middle East and the former Soviet Union.
To believe otherwise is to buy into the Leftist myths.
"Just don't let it get out of hand, or you'll find yourself becoming like the bastards we're fighting."
This got "out of hand" on 9/11 when 3,000 American civilians were slaughtered in cold blood just minding their own business peacefully.
We will *never* be like the scum we're fighting and never have been.
And that goes double for me personally.
To me Katsaris embodies the Ungrateful, Complaining, Palm Out European with the added twist that Greeks tend to hate us more than the others because they think we favor Turkey (their age-old enemy since the Pelopenesian Wars) too much.
I am sick of these people who want our tourism, our foreign aid and our trade but want to tell us on a daily basis how full of sh*t we are.
And the more we do this navel-gazing and whining about
"Why do they hate us?" and "What if we're 'mean' to the enemy? I'm afraid we'll become just like them if we actually fight back!", the closer we come to defeat in this war.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 18:20 Comments || Top||

#28  And Seymour Hersh is King Troll, as far as I'm concerned. Remember his "reporting" on TWA 800?
Posted by: BMN || 05/16/2004 18:23 Comments || Top||

#29  When I said Aris had a legitimate point, I didn't say I agreed with him, I don't, but I do think his arguement is on the right playing field (can't think of a better metaphor). If there is any real news in the prisoner abuse story (except the Left's desperate need to find a rationalization for their belief system) it is the importance of the rule of law and behaviour consistent with a civil society. What happened should be a lesson about easily they can breakdown and how much we lose when they do.

If there is any lesson in the Iraq experience, it should be that democracy and civil society is not something you can switch like a lightbulb. It takes years to build. Was Iraq worth trying? Absolutely! Will it succeed? I genuinely don't know? But I do know there is a long way to go.
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 18:32 Comments || Top||

#30  Robert Crawford> Aris is part of the segment of the world's population known as "bitter losers". He's more interested in crowing about the failings of the US than dealing with the failings of his own society.

I'm interested in dealing with the failings in my own society, but I'm mainly interested in dealing with those problems in forums that Greek people frequent. I could discuss them with you, but what would you know about e.g. the role of the Greek Radio-television Council in promoting censorship? What would you know about the relationship about the Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Archbishopry of Athens, and the state's interaction with the church's doing? What would you know about the issue of the new identity-cards or the Kapodistrias plan of district-unification? You could hardly participate in such a debate, I'd just be speaking and you'd be either nodding or flaming. And since you don't vote in Greece, you'd not be having much influence in matters even if I convinced you.

So, here I talk about *international* issues instead. Which means talking about America when America is involved in some international issue, and talking about Russia when Russia is involved in some such issue, and talking about whichever country comes up as prominent in international issues. And I also talk quite about the EU ofcourse.

Aris -- the problem I have with you is that you're entirely too quick to believe crap like the allegations Hersh has made.

I didn't even comment (one way or another) on the allegations that Hersh made, exactly because I don't know how much truth there is in them. My participation on this thread began when I responded to another person's comment.

I will apologize for calling you a bigot; I read entirely too much into your first few comments

And I apologize for calling you a troll.

I've run into entirely too many Europeans who think Europe is the end-all and be-all of culture, and sometimes I see (or think I see) that attitude in your comments.

It's not the end-all and be-all of culture. But currently it's one half of Western civilisation -- and the contempt that so many people here have for it often annoys me. By the nature of the civil and political rights that both Europe and America holds dear, they are natural allies. If you ignore that, if you lump Europe together with America's enemies just because they don't agree with you on the Iraq issue, have contempt for those supposedly appeasing Euros, and you're yourselves limiting the chances that Western civilisation has to end up victorious in the face of the threats facing it.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 18:32 Comments || Top||

#31  BMN: Difference between troll and trolling noted and logged. Thanks.

Jen: Hey, I think Europe's being stupid, too; I agree with quite a bit of what you say, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that a little bit of moderation - not in the message itself but perhaps in the way it's presented - makes them more likely to listen to what we have to say. Attack them and they'll retreat to their Fortress of Stupidity; discuss with them and maybe they'll understand (and if they don't, then you tell 'em how dumb they are).

And I don't think we'll ever be like the scum we're fighting, not if we prosecute those of us who step out of line and remember that we do stand for something more. It's that something more that makes life worth living, and that keeps us from turning on each other - something that the Muslim world has never figured out, and in fact wants to destroy.
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 18:37 Comments || Top||

#32  As good people strip away the rose colored glasses, it becomes more and more clear that the little Aris' of the world have nothing to offer but blame.

Blame and shame - the name of the Arab and EU game. Aris has no answers, no solutions, nothing to offer but blame.

You may get a rise out of posters on this board, Aris, but the people who really matter have opened their eyes to the fact that that the Islamists are savages and must be delt with as such.

Welcome to the year 2000. Your 20th Century dialog is yesterdays blather. Yawn. It's tiresome to hear you desperately attempt to maintain the moral superiority that you still believe you hold but have long since lost.

We've moved beyond you Aris. Blame and shame away...we listen the same way a husband listens to a nagging wife as he waits for the divorce papers to go through.
Posted by: B || 05/16/2004 18:40 Comments || Top||

#33  Phil, BMN, James> thanks.

B> One thing I've noted about you is that you never quote me when you respond. And in your case, the reason for that is that you never reply to what I actually say. Your post here could be equally well placed to any other thread I've ever participated in, because it yet again failed to refer to anything that I *actually* said. I supposedly offered "blame and shame"? Not in this thread atleast. I have no solutions? Actually I have suggested solutions in several occasions, regarding what to do about several different issues of the WOT.

So, yet again, as others have done occasionally, and as *you* are doing on purpose, you just don't care about my actual words and opinion and are just trying to stereotype me instead in order to fit your preconceptions of me.

Not gonna play that game, sweetie.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 18:54 Comments || Top||

#34  the contempt that so many people here have for it often annoys me.

And what annoys most of us here, is the irrational ranting and raving of the USA haters in Europe. So it's the chicken or the egg argument. What came first?

Europe and America ... are natural allies.

I think this myth has been put to rest about a year ago. Or at least its truthfullness severly questioned.
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 18:57 Comments || Top||

#35  "And what annoys most of us here, is the irrational ranting and raving of the USA haters in Europe."

Good. It should. The irrational ranting and raving of USA haters in Europe annoys me too.

It's just that the irrational ranting and raving of Europe haters in USA also annoys me.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 19:05 Comments || Top||

#36  In actual fact, AK, our contempt (Hate's too strong a word) for EUrope is quite rational--there are quite a few reasons, all of which you've been given here many times.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 19:13 Comments || Top||

#37  Not gonna play that game.

The point is, Aris, we aren't playing your game anymore. We are going to crush the Islamofanatics and your EU socialism is failed.

Besides, nobody cares about your solutions to end terrorism anymore than they care about mine. What matters is that Americans who do matter and who do have the power to act are going to do what it takes to stop the fanatics from ending our freedoms. And we, the nationalistic fucks, are going to support them en masse. I live among the LLL and I can tell you that they have changed dramatically in their opinions as they come to realize just how savage, backwards and destructive the Islamists are to the civilization that we live in. The UNSCAM has shattered their illusions about the Europeans having anything to offer us. And while the hardcore among them can't let go of their need to hate Bush, they can't even get enough support to float a radio station in 2 of the largest cities in our nation. That tells you where the majority of us stand.

You are just a meaningless armchair quarterback, as am I. But the difference between you and me is that I'm willing to back the people who are making a difference. You are busy nagging them with your "brilliant ideas" that are failed holdovers from the last century.

And...it is a fact that blame is the name of the EU and Arab (and Aris) game. Believe or don't believe it. It's still true.
Posted by: B || 05/16/2004 19:15 Comments || Top||

#38  Jen> And just as many times I've countergiven the ways that most of those reasons could also apply, only slightly modified, to the USA itself. France supporting a dictator? So has USA, in the recent past. Germany causing the holocaust 60 years ago? USA used to have slavery 140 years ago. Europe has too much unemployment? USA has too much of a crime-rate.

And so forth, and so forth. And that's not USA-bashing, Jen, because then you'll also have to accuse me of Europe-bashing.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 19:20 Comments || Top||

#39  B> So now you've changed your problem with me from "you don't offer solutions", to "you don't support the people that I support".

We're coming closer to the truth.

If by "support" you mean "I don't want them to commit what I see as foolish mistakes", you are right, I don't support them.

But if by support you mean "wish the best for them" then you are wrong, I most definitely wished for a quick American victory in Iraq and a defeat of the various fascist groups there, past and present.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 19:26 Comments || Top||

#40  "I'm interested in dealing with the failings in my own society, but I'm mainly interested in dealing with those problems in forums that Greek people frequent."
That leaves out RB.
I suggest you take your own council and confine yourself to those Greek forums where you profess to know something about what you're babbling about.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 19:27 Comments || Top||

#41  Sorry Jen, I'm also a citizen of the world, not just of Greece. If Fred asks me to leave I'll do so since this is his site, but you don't have the authority.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 19:31 Comments || Top||

#42  Your professed predilections for fora are just like your views, nothing but pure BS.
What's sad is that I don't even think you're representative of a lot of Greeks, but on this forum, that's what you've become.
Too bad for Greece.
Don't expect a lot of tourists for the Olympics, if the U.S. even decides to send our team.
Good thing I saw the Parthenon a long time ago.
What was the last remarkable thing Greece produced after 5th Century B.C. black-figured vases?
*crickets*
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 19:37 Comments || Top||

#43  . By the nature of the civil and political rights that both Europe and America holds dear, they are natural allies.

I think and pray you are right on this.
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:39 Comments || Top||

#44  Jen? Please STFU.
Posted by: Fury 7 || 05/16/2004 19:41 Comments || Top||

#45  F7, I will never shut up about or be ashamed of being an American.
And you know I'm right or you wouldn't be so bothered.
Guess I'm disturbing your "One World" Kumbaya vibes.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 19:48 Comments || Top||

#46  Jen> You constantly strive to prove me right about your person.

What was the last remarkable thing Greece produced after 5th Century B.C. black-figured vases?

Well, not that this has to do anything with whether *I* am right or wrong in my views but it's been said that the Pap test has saved millions of lives.

In short, it'd be politer if your first gave me a chance to respond before letting the crickets sing.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 19:52 Comments || Top||

#47  Sorry to get in the middle of a "personal attack" thread but. . .
virginian > Keep in mind Seymour Hersh is a Chomskyite, a habitual liar
Hersh is NOT a Chomskyite or even necessarily a leftist.
He IS an opportunistic liar, who is well known for creating mythical sources. He has done it to both left and right. His only goal is to make himself look good and impress Chomsky-like people. The bad part is that it works, and he gets recognition from others in the press. Fortunately, a lot of 'creative journalists' are getting caught and the overall trust in the press is dropping way down. Very soon they will need to change their ways or find new jobs.
Posted by: Urako || 05/16/2004 20:14 Comments || Top||

#48  I don't agree with alot of things Aris sez,but do we have to beat him into he ground when he has an opin.He don't agree with you Jen probably never will does that mean smash him.
Posted by: djohn66 || 05/16/2004 20:19 Comments || Top||

#49  How about we bury the hatchet on the condition that Aris waves the American flag on opening day ceremonies at the olympics.

On second thought, since I generally don't wish violence on anyone, let's just agree to disagree :)
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 20:28 Comments || Top||

#50  No Aris, what I was saying was that you don't matter. What matters is that American might will smash the Islamofascists regardless of your snotty little comments or the EU attempts to make them feel bigger by lashing out at the US.

Despite what you may read in the American media, all Americans are becoming united against the threat against us. We have the will, we have the might and we have the money. We've been holding back, but with each atrocity, we harden our resolve and become more committed.
Posted by: B || 05/16/2004 20:32 Comments || Top||

#51  B> No Aris, what I was saying was that you don't matter.

But I wouldn't "matter" even if I agreed with you on every single comment you made, so that's clearly not the reason of your dislike of me. The reason is that I disagree with you.

What matters is that American might will smash the Islamofascists

Hopefully. But not certainly. Any war can be lost from lack of means, or of will, or of *wisdom*. Your country and administration may have the first two, but does it have the third?

"We have the will, we have the might and we have the money. "

Oy vey. Yeah, yeah, indeed. Did I ever question your will, your might or your money? It's very good that with each atrocity you harden your resolve.

But though resolve and might are needed, they are not *enough*, when wisdom is lacking.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 20:43 Comments || Top||

#52  *sigh* when wisdom is lacking

Oh boy, here we go. Does this mean that Euros are genetically smarter? Is that your viewpoint?
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 20:58 Comments || Top||

#53  Are you joking?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 21:03 Comments || Top||

#54  Aris, you say that I don't like you because I disagree with you. Where are you examples that say I disagree with you. Prove that I disagree with you.

snicker.
Posted by: B || 05/16/2004 21:12 Comments || Top||

#55  Aris, you do often come across as espousing a position of 'Americans are so unsophisticated unlike us wise Europeans.'
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 21:13 Comments || Top||

#56  B> You said that American might will smash the Islamofascists. I said that's not yet certain.

That's disagreement. Your attempt at humour isn't working.

Phil B> I think that 90% of people are idiots or just plain ignorant, regardless of continent.

How that shows is revealed in governmental policy differs. I think that European governments are often idiotic in regards to economics. I think that American governments are often idiotic in their attitudes towards the application of military force and its mid to long-term consequences.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 21:20 Comments || Top||

#57  Oh Aris,and by what definition are we idiotic towards mil. ops, yours.I don't see Greece coming up with anything for the WOT or any solutions,so if we are the ones dying I think we get to say how it goes.
Posted by: djohn66 || 05/16/2004 21:52 Comments || Top||

#58  Phil B - that's Aris' whole gig. Only Aris thinks we are so stupid as to believe that he is actually trying to have a discussion rather than get some meaning in his meaningless life by talking down his nose at the silly, foolish Americans.

Aris - I now remember why I always scan over your posts. You have nothing of interest to say, only your feeble attempts to make yourself feel superior. You need to get a real life so you don't need to come in here to puff yourself up.
Posted by: B || 05/16/2004 21:55 Comments || Top||

#59  I am bummed to see such a flamefest in normally thoughtful Rantburg.

I agree with Aris that it is bad that the lack of discipline in the Abu Garib and the release of the photos has offended the Iraqis whose cooperation we need. This was indeed unhelpful.

HOWEVER, when interrogating hardcore enemy prisoners, I hope that we are taking full advantage of the fact that they come from a misogynistic, homophobic culture. "Sexual humiliation" may well the ideal way to break certain prisoners down.

I saw one quote where a prisoner said he'd rather be killed than treated like a woman. That might give our interrogator something to work with.

I recall several stories revealing the sexual hangups of the 9/11 hijackers. Atta clearly despised women and may have been a repressed homosexual. If we had picked him up, interrogation tactics based on 'sexual humiliation' would have been worth a try.

Gen. Boykin, who has been criticized for taking his job too religiously, has clearly studied the enemy to learn his weaknesses. It would be a shame if the prison scandal eliminates a potentially valuable way to extract information.
Posted by: JAB || 05/16/2004 22:31 Comments || Top||

#60  This is the best open source intel site on the web. I learn from everyone here, even the obvious Islamists (from them I learn our enemies' prejudices and blind spots).

I want to hear what non-Americans have to say. I often disagree with them, but I still want to hear what they say.

Some time back, LGF ran a poll on whether or not to abandon the Gaza settlements. A clear majority of the _readers_ voted in favor of the pull out. The forum _participants_ were taken aback. They shouldn't have been, since they ran everyone with a dissenting viewpoint off the board months before.
Posted by: 11A5S || 05/16/2004 22:37 Comments || Top||

#61  Oh Aris,and by what definition are we idiotic towards mil. ops

Well, in Iraq, you attacked the least securable country in the region, the one that'd offer the least benefits in case of victory (and even those small benefits would only occur after a decade or more), the one that'd offer the greatest losses in case of defeat, the one that was only periphally connected to support of terrorism, and the main argument (currently atleast) for why you went there is in order to be in a place where they have you surrounded from all sides.

In Kosovo America with its bombings ended up defacto supporting the terrorists of UCK. You didn't actually stop the ethnic cleansing, you simply ensured that it'd be the Albanians that'd ethnically cleanse the Serbs rather than vice versa and you also provided the UCK terrorists a base from which they could launch attacks to FYRO Macedonia, thus initiating a new civil war in a new country.

I had supported the invasion of Haiti, but even that in retrospect seems to have been a mistake since Aristide later revealed himself a butcher. That one may be excused however as he hadn't by that time.

"I don't see Greece coming up with anything for the WOT or any solutions,so if we are the ones dying I think we get to say how it goes."

What does Greece have to do with my opinions? Has nationalism rotted your brain *so* much
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 22:37 Comments || Top||

#62  Yes I am a Nationalist,so are alot of Americans better get used to it.
Posted by: djohn66 || 05/16/2004 22:49 Comments || Top||

#63  And so are a lot of Greeks, unfortunately.

But as long as you are a nationalist and thus only think of people as expressions of their nations rather than as individuals, then you won't be able to understand that what Greece has or hasn't done and whether Greece (or Europe) is better or worse, is actually quite irrelevant to my arguments and any valid refutation of them.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 22:55 Comments || Top||

#64  Well, in Iraq, you attacked the least securable country in the region

And you of course, being a European, knew the outcome in advance? Perhaps that explains a lot of Europe's impotency: you presuppose failure in everything, so why bother striving for change, for the better?

the one that'd offer the least benefits in case of victory

A prosperous, democratic Iraq is not a benefit???

the main argument (currently atleast) for why you went there is in order to be in a place where they have you surrounded from all sides

What??? The reason for going into Iraq was multi-faceted with the potential benefits of an invasion outweighing the negatives or risks. That's why the decision was made. The chapter on Iraq hasn't been finished yet, so don't be too quick to put this into the 'military failures' category.
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 23:04 Comments || Top||

#65  I hadn't thought of this before, but the Abu Ghraib guards may simply have been setting up pictures for blackmailing known terrorists, so that they would return and spy on their erstwhile comrades. These are tried and true techniques for recruiting spies from the other side. (Get incriminating pictures of enemy personnel and then blackmail them).

None of this any different from what happened during the Cold War. Compromising homosexuals was a prime technique, until both sides made it a non-issue by not making homosexuality a disqualifying factor for sensitive positions. In honor-bound Muslim societies, such pictures would have been dynamite and a useful tactic. It's pretty weird how the press hasn't covered any of the stuff about classic espionage techniques. There's nothing particularly new about these tactics.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 05/16/2004 23:08 Comments || Top||

#66  Speaking of nationalism, apparently this is something to be ashamed of in Europe. Flag waving is considered...embarrassing. Unless you're a football/soccer fan. Aris wouldn't like America.
Posted by: Rafael || 05/16/2004 23:11 Comments || Top||

#67  "And you of course, being a European, knew the outcome in advance? "

What does my being a European have to do with anything? You keep on wanting to represent me as much of bigot as some other posters here are.

But, as for whether I knew the outcome in advance, I knew that the Iranian-backed Islamofascists would make a bid for power, yeah. Everyone knew that who had eyes to see, the same way everyone knew that the three ethnic groups of Iraq would be hell to keep them together and independent.

I had admittedly not expected it to be so soon as it ended up being, I thought it'd be in a few years time instead. But still. (though the SCIRI group may still may such a bid in a few years if the Sadr group fails now)

"A prosperous, democratic Iraq is not a benefit???"

First of all, yeah, it's a benefit but not nearly as much of a benefit as a prosperous and democratic Syria or Iran would be.

And secondly, due in part to its location, a prosperous democratic Iraq is nearly impossible to happen until *after* the War on Terror is won.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 23:16 Comments || Top||

#68  Aris, you are wrong.

Point by point (not that you deserve the attention but maybe a public thrashing might wake you up, or expose your denial problem).

1) its NOT the least securable country in the region. Iran is.

Seacoast, and mountainous borders on all other sides, and covered infiltration overland routes all over the place.

Iraq has large expanses of desert, which are quite easy to patrol and secure, if you throw enough manpower and technology at it. Optical, thermal and infared work quite well in that environment.

The latter was lacking (an actual effort to secure these borders), and certainly the US Dept of Defense can be faulted at underestimating the lack of enthusiasm of the Iraqis, which resulted in porous borders from Syria and Iran, which are belatedly being slowly but surely closed.

So you're dead wrong there.

Greatest potential losses in a defeat? Care to substantiate that? Military victory was relatively casualty free - and quickly accomplished thanks to the elan and capabilities of the US and British and Allied armed forces. As for the occupation and pacification, current casualty rates are miniscule compared to those of Korea, Vietnam, and WW2.

As for you claims of Peripherally involved in terror - you are so wrong here its laughable! Consider that Abu Nidal was there, and the number of terror training areas in Iraq prior to the war was second only to pre-war Afghanistan, and currently only Iran and possibly Sudan come close. Add to that the well documented (pre-war, by the US, UK, France and Russia) pursuit of WMD in violation of multiple UN resolutions, including throwing out UN inspectors, and add in Iraqi funding of Palestenian Fanatic Boomers and its pretty clear that Iraq is a participant in terror.

But almost as important is the geopolitical area: are you truly so self blinded that you cannot see its the geographic hub of the area? Iran can no longer support Hezbullah in Syria and Israel directly - it must now send funds (with the potential for tracing or loss - its easier for middle-men to hijack bearer bonds and cash for private use than it is barrels of explosives), or else they have to make shipments indirectly by way of possibly unfriendly third party nations. Similarly, Syria cannot help the Taliban in Afghanistan or anyone in Sudan. The lack of a land route thruough the center of the region is definitly cutting into operations over there, the hyped-up news[paper reports notwithstanding: with a Liberated Iraq athwart the land route, terror is forced into using much more easily coutnered methods. A simple intelligent serach of naval searches and seizures should show the vulnerability and transparency of sea-based shipment compared to the clandestine land routes.

And finally, Iraq was the right choice geopolitically because it puts imminse pressures on Iran and Syrai - history teaches that dictatorships cannot survive intact in the face of an adjacent thriving large democracy.

As for former Yugoslavia, its got you Greeks scared shitless in that they could tear off a part of Greece or embroil Grgeece in a terror war with seperatists on its own soil. You're as clean in the former Yugoslav republic as the Turks are in Kurdistan - which is to say, not at all. You bring nationalism to this by criticising us as a nation, then using nationalism as an excuse to fling factless biased epithests at the US leadership: you tar us with it, so be ready to see it coming back at you. So why do you not expect to be held accountable for Greek nationalisim in return? You are a democracy aren't you ? (except when it comes to your fascist behavior toward Turks on Cypress)

So, care to slither away, or do you want more?
Posted by: OldSpook || 05/16/2004 23:18 Comments || Top||

#69  I've been around RB for awhile and haven't posted a lot lately because of a new job and other commitments. That said.....
Frankly Jen and Aris, I am tired of the serial bitch-slap contest that occurs every time you both land in the same thread. Why not take it outside to the parking lot?
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 05/16/2004 23:22 Comments || Top||

#70  whitecollar, do you see me continuing? Nope. I walked away.
What's the point?
AK is *always* right and I'm an American "nationalistic f*ck."
And he got to dominate the thread and hijack it back to what he wanted to talk about, as usual.
AK's still here and I'm out here bored in the parking lot.
Satisified?

Old Spook, thank you. Excellent job.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 23:32 Comments || Top||

#71  OldSpook> It's 6AM over here. So very please if I'll make this set of responses to you the last comments on this thread, don't consider it "slithering away". I've never slithered away in my life.

1) its NOT the least securable country in the region. Iran is.

In Iran the grip of the mullahs on power is weak enough, than an American intervention would quite possibly get tons of supporters. Also Iran is much more ethnically homogeneous (there exist minorities, Kurds, Baluchis, so forth, but much smaller in percentage in comparison to the ones of Iraq) which means that a straightforward democracy is much easier implementable without fear of one group overly oppressing all others, without fear of a civil war between ethnic groups.

Moreover, you'd have neither Saudi Arabia, nor Syria at your sides. You'd have isolated Iraq instead, where if the Mujahideen-e-Kalq were to infiltrate they would be *helping* you overthrow the mullahs, not work against you.

And the sea coast is not a problem when you own the seas.

Next point in a next comment.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 23:33 Comments || Top||

#72  Greatest potential losses in a defeat? Care to substantiate that?

If you had gone and were defeated in Syria, then you'd not actually lose anything -- Syria is already as hardcore a part of the Islamofascist axis as can be. If you gone and were defeated in Iran, your losses would be minimal -- perhaps the mullahs would strengthen their rule at the very worst, but Iran is already at the center of the Islamofascist axis.

But a defeat on Iraq, means that the Islamofascist axis suddenly gains a whole new country -- and not just *any* country, but the final connecting link that'll unite Syria and Iran via Baghdad in a huge link of happy-happy Islamofascist joy, all of them having declared allegiance to one another, the biggest Islamofascist superpower that the world has yet seen.

Last point in the last comment.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 23:39 Comments || Top||

#73  whitecollar redneck, perhaps you'd prefer it that Katsaris's posts remain here unchallenged for all their disinformation, confused thinking and obfuscations, but now that RB's getting pretty popular, I don't think it's a good idea.
I usually follow AK around on purpose to set the record straight with facts and the truth.
Or to get some help from other RBers, like the excellent commentary and analysis to be found above by Old Spook, "B" and Robert Crawford.
But if you rather I didn't...do you speak for all of RB?
Maybe I should just bow out and let RB become America-Hating HQ...?
The Left is always screaming about "free speech" and "tolerance" except when it comes to an opinion and a voice they don't agree with.
And I'm not the only person here who's disagreed with AK profoundly or who's disagreed with him vehemently on this thread, so why was I singled out?
Because I'm a woman and the "little women" are supposed to shut up when they're told to?
That would make you a true redneck, white collar or no.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 23:45 Comments || Top||

#74  AK, the USA is not going to "lose" in Iraq.
Last time I looked (5 minutes ago), we were still in control of the country.
When the time comes for Assad to fall in Syria, that will be easy.
We could take Syria anytime--their military is pathetic.
(And Israel is right there, too.)
Iran is crumbling from the inside.
Again, militarily no real challenge for the US to conquer.
We chose Iraq for a number of reasons, but one of them was because Saddam had the strongest army in the region supposedly.
You wanted America to attack Syria. We didn't.
Get over it.
Assad isn't worthy of cleaning Rumsfeld's jockstrap and neither are you.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 23:52 Comments || Top||

#75  As for you claims of Peripherally involved in terror - you are so wrong here its laughable! Consider that Abu Nidal was there,

Wow! Abu Nidal! I'm now *so* convinced that he was more important a target than the combined headquarters of Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and Hamas that Damascus was.

and the number of terror training areas in Iraq prior to the war was second only to pre-war Afghanistan,

What, the terror training areas of the MEK, the ones who opposed the mullahs of Iran?

and add in Iraqi funding of Palestenian Fanatic Boomers and its pretty clear that Iraq is a participant in terror

The funding of Palestinian fanatic boomers was the only real participation of Iraq in terror, but it doesn't even compare to the role Syria plays in Palestinian terrorism.

But almost as important is the geopolitical area: are you truly so self blinded that you cannot see its the geographic hub of the area?

Yeah, you went in a place where they have you surrounded. I said that already.

Iran can no longer support Hezbullah in Syria and Israel directly

Which weirdly enough would have also happened if Syria was attacked (my own personal choice) or Iran itself (the hardcore risky choice but still saner than Iraq).

Similarly, Syria cannot help the Taliban in Afghanistan or anyone in Sudan.

Which weirdly enough would have again happened if Syria itself had been attacked. My own personal choice as I believe I've mentioned.

And finally, Iraq was the right choice geopolitically because it puts imminse pressures on Iran and Syrai - history teaches that dictatorships cannot survive intact in the face of an adjacent thriving large democracy.

But Iraq can't thrive as long as Syria and Iran are on its sides. So it would have made more sense to take care one of *those* first, and let *that* one be the example of democratic reform. Except in that case you'd also have direct and immediate benefits.

As for former Yugoslavia, its got you Greeks scared shitless in that they could tear off a part of Greece or embroil Grgeece in a terror war with seperatists on its own soil.

Um no. We don't have any separatists on our own soil. Check it out.

You're as clean in the former Yugoslav republic as the Turks are in Kurdistan - which is to say, not at all.

Are you talking about FYRO Macedonia? If so, then we've never sent army in there, and the last piece of military conflict over the general place was in the Balkan wars or so when it got liberated from the Ottomans. And perhaps also during WW2, the situation with the Bulgarians was a bit confusing.

You bring nationalism to this by criticising us as a nation, then using nationalism as an excuse to fling factless biased epithests at the US leadership: you tar us with it, so be ready to see it coming back at you.

Um, give me examples here, please. And keep in mind the difference between governments and ntations, pretty please.

So why do you not expect to be held accountable for Greek nationalisim in return?

Because every person is responsible for his own ideas. Since I'm not a nationalist, and have consistently fought against it, I can't be blamed for its doings.

You are a democracy aren't you?

Of course. If you want to criticize my vote feel free to do so. I just don't see why I'm blamed for other people's votes.

except when it comes to your fascist behavior toward Turks on Cypress

That's "Cyprus". And the last fascist behavior by Greeks towards Turks on Cyprus was during the time of the junta of colonels, 30 years ago, btw.

Goodnight.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/16/2004 23:55 Comments || Top||

#76  Bullshit, AK.
Old Spook nailed you and no fair to act like you have to go somewhere so that you can get the "last word"/dernier mot, which is all you care about.
Posted by: Jen || 05/16/2004 23:59 Comments || Top||

#77  "no fair"? Are you still in kindergarten?

You are right it's not 6AM, it's 7AM now.

Tell you what, Jen, you go and have yourself the last word if you want, and I'll respond tomorrow if I feel like it -- and if I don't you can simply add "slitherer" to the bunch of insults whose truth or not you don't care about, same as "troll" and "communist". This thread will still be here. And now, goodnight.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/17/2004 0:15 Comments || Top||

#78  Whoa Whoa whoa people!! You are giving the goat loving, commie pinko Aris to much of your time.
How many times do we have to tell these third worlder's not to bring a knife to a gun fight!! Beating this ignorant med-fly up makes my day. But you have given his ignorace to much time, he is a waste and so is the time spent on this idiots comments.
Posted by: Long Hair Republican || 05/17/2004 1:26 Comments || Top||

#79  LHR - right you are. I'm going to go hit Fred's tip jar to help pay for the bandwidth I wasted and to help pay for the cleaning lady needed to sweep up this broken glass.
Posted by: B || 05/17/2004 7:33 Comments || Top||

#80  I do note that you didn't actually bother to respondm Jen, so your earlier comments were just as they seemed -- insults for insults' sake.

And Long Hair Republican, why are you actually striving to fulfill all the stereotypes about Republicans that you can find?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 05/17/2004 8:02 Comments || Top||

#81  America is full of pussies!!! I am ashamed to be an American. All of this self-loathing over hurting the feelings of muslim terrorist prisoners. I wish that I lived in a country that had some balls. As it stands right now, it is clear that this is a nation full of crying women.
Posted by: Victory Now Please || 05/16/2004 15:55 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Bombs hit Bhuddist Temples in (heavily moslem) S. Thailand
Bomb blasts rocked three Buddhist temples in Thailand’s restive Muslim-dominated south within an hour late Sunday, damaging the buildings but causing no injuries, police said.
[Seething Moslems will soon accuse the Mossad of being behind these bombings]
The temples were located in three districts of Narathiwat province which lies next to the Malaysian border, provincial police commander Colonel Kachen Kochtarayu told AFP.
Posted by: mhw || 05/16/2004 3:19:35 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Gentle says the heavy Jooooo population in Siam did it....couldn't have been Mooslims
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2004 16:18 Comments || Top||

#2  It was obviously done by Norwegian Lutherens. Or possibly an Amish/Mennonite/Quaker coalition.

Why not? It couldn't possibly be the Moslems; theirs is the Religion of Peace.™
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 16:23 Comments || Top||

#3  Barbara - I am very familiar with both Lutherans and Mennonites. Wadd'nt us. Our weapon of choice is casseroles.
Posted by: Doc8404 || 05/16/2004 18:52 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm thinking it was the quivering green jeeloo
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:49 Comments || Top||


Islamic separatists challenge Bangkok
Eric Teo Chu Cheow, chairman of the Singapore Institute of International Affairs, said Jemaah leaders met twice in southern Thailand to plan the bombings on the Indonesian island of Bali in 2002 that killed 202 persons, mostly foreign tourists.

Numerous regional leaders from Jemaah and Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda terror network are known to have spent time in southern Thailand since the September 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.

Jemaah militants sought by Malaysia and Singapore fled to this region in 2002 and, in June last year, Thai police broke up a Jemaah cell and foiled a plot to bomb embassies in the country.

Local officials say one of the suspects sought for involvement in a January raid at an army camp in southern Thailand is related to Hambali, al Qaeda's operational leader in southeast Asia, who was arrested near Bangkok last year.

Independent estimates already put Jemaah membership in southern Thailand as high as 10,000, and the Thai military says that it is hunting down at least 5,000 armed separatists.

In the growing unrest, Buddhist Thai nationalists see a threat of "Arab influence" in the region, first brought home in 2002 when two dozen Middle Eastern suspects were arrested for forging travel documents for al Qaeda.

Southern Thailand is also home to the Yala Islamic College, run by influential hard-line cleric Ismail Lufti. The modern college is funded by Saudi money and has 800 students taught hard-core Wahhabi doctrine.

Vairoj Phiphitpakdee, a Muslim member of parliament for Pattani, has said that some Thai Muslims mistakenly believe that Islam is just about adopting Arab customs.

"They're taken to the Middle East, and they're brainwashed," he recently told reporters.

The success of the military operation against the Islamist militants depends on closer cooperation from neighboring Malaysia.

Thailand says the terrorists find refuge in the northern Malaysian states of Kelantan and Kedah. While there have been official pledges by both governments to boost border patrols, all that has been achieved thus far is the arrest of a sole Malaysian taxi driver, who was charged in Kuala Lumpur with aiding the Thai militants by ferrying some of them across the common border.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 05/16/2004 11:55:01 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


JI stays in Indonesian terror pledge
Indonesia's leading presidential candidate wants stronger counter-terror co-operation with Australia, but has refused to ban the terror group blamed for the Bali bombing.

Retired four-star general Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono said that if elected president this year he would seek improved relations with Australia. "It's part of our foreign policy that should be strengthened," he said.

Mr Yudhoyono has been the dominant Indonesian in the fight against terrorist groups in his position as top security minister in the cabinet of President Megawati Soekarnoputri, a post he quit in March to campaign for the presidency.

Although he has been praised by Western governments for his work against terrorism, and has promised to continue if elected president, he stopped short of promising to outlaw Jemaah Islamiah, an affiliate of al-Qaeda.

"There is a debate in our politics there. As an organisation, JI, I would say, does not exist in our list (of banned organisations) actually. But I do understand that men belonging to JI do exist in Indonesia. In our policy of combating terrorism we have to watch them," he said.

"And if they are planning to commit crimes then we bring them to justice."

On Friday the US ambassador to Jakarta, Ralph Boyce, called on all Indonesian presidential candidates to prepare to take a tougher line on terrorism.

The Security Council listing "obliged all states to freeze the assets, prevent the entry into or the transit through their territories, and prevent the direct or indirect supply, sale and transfer of arms and military equipment" of JI and its members.

But Jemaah Islamiah translates literally as "Islamic community", and banning the organisation remains a very sensitive issue in a county where 85 per cent of the population is Muslim. The issue is so delicate that police refuse even to utter the words Jemaah Islamiah when they arrest suspected members of the terrorist group.

With 40 per cent support in a poll by the Japanese-funded Indonesian Survey Institute last week, Mr Yudhoyono is the leading presidential candidate, with President Megawati next at 14 per cent.

Mr Yudhoyono is unofficially favoured by the Bush Administration and the Howard Government. He wants closer relations with Australia, including stepping up Indonesia's controversial military ties with Australia.

While Mrs Megawati has not visited Australia in more than two years as president, Mr Yudhoyono already has plans for a visit. "As a symbol of our closeness, actually, I plan to visit Australia in due time. In the first year I have to concentrate on doing my domestic affairs before going abroad. Visiting Australia is, of course, on my agenda if I'm elected."

Occasional problems in the relationship between Indonesia and Australia could, Mr Yudhoyono said, be easily overcome.

"The Indonesian people are mostly apolitical. And they love their neighbours; they love their brothers and sisters. So I don't believe the people of Indonesia hate the people of Australia, Malaysia or Singapore," he said.

"Yes, of course there can be problems in our political relationships but I do believe - with a spirit of friendship - they can be solved."

Despite opposition in Indonesia to the US-led invasion of Iraq, Mr Yudhoyono said relations with the US were not at risk. "So far, it's going normal. Of course, what is done by the US is sometimes misunderstood by many Indonesians. As far as we keep up our principles of mutual trust and respect, then I think we could continue our good relations with the US."
Posted by: Dan Darling || 05/16/2004 11:45:22 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Protestors stone British embassy in Tehran
Several hundred Islamic students threw rocks at the British embassy in Tehran and tried to storm the building in a protest Sunday over the American-led occupation of Iraq, but were turned back by riot police, an AFP correspondent said. "Death to America, death to Britain and death to Israel," chanted the protestors, marshalled by hardliner volunteer militiamen, as they burned the three countries’ flags. "We will protest here every day as long as the prisoners in Abu Ghraib are not freed," read a sign held aloft by the crowd, in reference to the US-led jail at the centre of allegations of abuse of detainees by coalition troops.

The demonstrators also denounced clashes between US forces and radical militiamen in the Iraqi shrine cities of Najaf and Karbala, which are revered by Shias in Iran as well as Iraq. Large numbers of riot police who were deployed nearby moved in after the protest turned violent.

Iran’s supreme guide, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, on Sunday condemned the US operations in Najaf and Karbala. In the absence of a US embassy here, the British mission offers the best focus for demonstrators wanting to protest the year-old occupation of Iraq by the US-led coalition. Washington broke off diplomatic relations with Tehran after radical students stormed the embassy and took its staff hostage in the aftermath of the 1979 Islamic revolution. But London has followed its European Union partners in pursuing a policy of constructive dialogue with the Islamic regime.

US officials regularly rail against Iranian interference in Iraq, but British officials have taken a more nuanced line, even inviting a foreign ministry delegation to Baghdad to try to broker an end to the month-old stand-off between coalition troops and Shia radicals. Iraq’s Iranian-backed Shia religious parties have been careful to maintain good working relations with the occupation authorities and have joined the interim bodies established by the coalition.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 05/16/2004 5:23:59 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  but British officials have taken a more nuanced line,

hmmmmmmmm
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 22:11 Comments || Top||


Time’s Up for Watching "The Lizard" -- Still Time for Skating at Airport
The makers of an Iranian box-office hit seen as satirising the religious establishment have decided to withdraw the film. The producers of Marmoulak (The Lizard) say the award-winning film will be withdrawn by next Friday, following pressure from the authorities. The film had been playing to packed cinemas since 21 April - but attracted criticism from the conservative clergy. It is about a convicted criminal who disguises himself as a mullah. .... But hardliners have found it offensive. Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, head of the powerful Guardian Council, said the film was a "bad influence".

The audience lapped up the comedy, as the film’s lead character - Reza the Lizard - revels in the privileges and power his clerical robes bring him. Eventually he captivates his congregation’s imagination by his simplicity and brings worshippers flocking back to the mosques.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 05/16/2004 1:02:08 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The airport problem and this movie make me think
maybe Charles Johnson making his move.
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 10:43 Comments || Top||

#2  Well, let's see... movie about a "lizard," check.

Closed expensive airport, Just Like Denver's... check. (Haven't been able to check it for creepy artwork).

Flying saucer sightings... check.

Am I missing anything?
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 05/16/2004 14:58 Comments || Top||

#3  Actually, the movie is about a mullah who disguises himself as a convicted criminal, and goes out among the people, robbing the rich and giving to himeslf the Poor™.

Actually, it started out as a reality show, and then the plot ran away from its creators....And then....
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 05/16/2004 18:00 Comments || Top||

#4  Convicted criminal dressing up as a mullah . . . funny thing, that; I figured it was the norm.

Something our society does very well is force us to be confident in our own beliefs, because free speech allows us to criticize others. If you can't do that, you can't hope to progress. And that's partially why the Islamic world has fallen behind.

One wonders if they're so insecure in their beliefs that they won't allow it to be questioned, because they know that if it turns out to be untrue, their entire world falls apart?
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 18:09 Comments || Top||

#5  "One wonders if they're so insecure in their beliefs that they won't allow it to be questioned, because they know that if it turns out to be untrue, their entire world falls apart?"

http://www.prophetofdoom.net
Posted by: Anonymous4885 || 05/17/2004 9:03 Comments || Top||


Iran's Role in the Recent Uprisings in Iraq
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 05/16/2004 12:00:00 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Israel-Palestine
IDF plans canal in Rafah
The IDF is considering a 60 meter wide, 20 meters deep canal filled with water in order to prevent tunnels being built from Egypt to the Palestinian side of Rafah, IDF officials told the Jerusalem Post on Sunday. Other options include erecting a wall to prevent Palestinians from firing at troops, and widening the Philadelphia corridor. More than one option may be executed, officials say.
What a great idea! Unfortunately geography would appear to prevent the canal being extended to the Red Sea and creating an alternative to the Suez canal.
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 7:03:19 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  A nice engineering project. Will it cause the canal front real estate boom? That's also an opportunity for future palestinian regatta.
Posted by: marek || 05/16/2004 19:16 Comments || Top||

#2  Nope.
Bikinni Burka
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:43 Comments || Top||

#3  IDF plans canal in Rafah

Stocked with security trained* crocodiles, I presume?

* WITH FILED TEETH
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 22:02 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
Christian preacher feared kidnapped in Pakistan
A Pentecostal preacher was feared kidnapped in Pakistan on Sunday, apparently by an unknown Islamic militant group after he disappeared in the southwestern city of Quetta, his friends and family said.

Wilson Fazal, a Pakistani Christian cleric at a local city church, had been receiving threatening letters from an unknown group of Islamists urging him to convert to Islam or face unspecified consequences, his son Jerry told Reuters. Jerry said the latest hand-written letter was delivered to their house five days ago asking Wilson to stop preaching Christianity. The letter was apparently sent by a group calling itself Mahaz-e-Jihad, or "Frontier of the Holy War." "Get ready, ready, ready, or else...," said the letter which had a hand-drawn rifle for a signature at the bottom.

Rehmat Niaz, senior superintendent of police in Quetta, said authorities had received a complaint submitted by the family and were investigating. Jerry said Wilson left his home on Sunday morning and failed to return by late evening. "We fear that he has been kidnapped as he was receiving threats in the past," Asia Nasir, a Christian leader and member of the National Assembly, or lower house of parliament, told a news conference.

Oliver Zia, another church leader, told the same conference that an attempt to kidnap Fazal was made three days ago by bearded men, but it was foiled and authorities were informed about the incident and police were posted outside his house. He said threats had also been received by other Christians in the area telling them to stop teaching Muslim students.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 05/16/2004 6:32:02 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  But they keep saying ol' Mo' said there's no compulsion in religion!
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 05/16/2004 18:44 Comments || Top||

#2  Sometimes I think talking to snakes has a positive vocational outcome.
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:19 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Powell: Arab world should be more outraged
Sure, and hillbillies want to be known as "sons of the soil" but it ain’t gonna happen anytime soon.
’No excuse for silence’ after American’s beheading

Sunday, May 16, 2004 Posted: 12:44 PM EDT (1644 GMT)

DEAD SEA RESORT, Jordan (CNN) -- The Arab world should be showing "a higher level of outrage" over the death of an American businessman whose beheading was posted on an Islamist Web site last week, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday.

"There’s no excuse for silence on this kind of murder," Powell told NBC’s "Meet the Press." "I would like to have seen a much higher level of outrage throughout the world, but especially in the Arab world, to this murder," he said. "What we saw with this horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible murder should be deplored throughout the Arab world." Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates condemned the killing of Nicholas Berg, 26, who made his second trip to Iraq in March to work on communication towers.

His family said they last heard from him on April 9, and they notified the State Department he was missing four days later. Amr Moussa, secretary general of the Arab League, said Sunday that "decent people" cannot tolerate such treatment. "We are against such acts of extreme violence and despicable actions towards human beings," he said on CNN’s "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."

Powell said that there was "no comparison" between Berg’s killing and the revelation of abuses at Abu Ghraib prison by American soldiers. "All this kind of behavior is unacceptable in the modern world," he said on "Fox News Sunday." "Torture of any kind is unacceptable." "Arab leaders need to look at what’s happening in their own societies," he added. "They need to reform their own societies. Torture is torture is torture. It is unacceptable. It is not the way you treat human beings."

In the video posted Tuesday on an Islamist Web site, Berg is shown sitting in an orange jumpsuit in front of five armed, hooded men. A man standing behind him reads a statement, and Berg is then pushed to the floor. The man who read the statement pulls out a machete-like knife and decapitates him. One of the captors then holds up the severed head to the camera. Berg’s body was found May 8 in Baghdad.

The CIA has said there was "a high probability" that the killer was Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of an Islamist terrorist group that the United States says has close ties to Osama bin Laden. Agents made their determination by analyzing the video and the voice of the man who read the statement. Linguists who listened to the tape questioned that conclusion, saying the speaker does not have a Jordanian accent.
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 6:09:43 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Arab world isn't outraged because somehow it must approve of Berg's death.

What the Arab world doesn't understand is that if we fail to succeed, their society is going to tear itself apart.
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 18:13 Comments || Top||

#2  Of course they approve of it. If they didn't, the jihadis would be scrounging for cash and running for their lives. Instead, all we see from the Arab world is outrage when a jihadi breaks a nail while in custody of the civilized world, and puzzled looks when we ask them to condemn murders committed in Islam's name.

Of course, if you question Islam's commitment to "peace" based on those same murders, they go totally freaking nuts.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 05/16/2004 18:19 Comments || Top||

#3  Robert - That's because they are totally freaking nuts. And professional hypocrites.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 18:28 Comments || Top||

#4  Venomous Kate has some interesting thoughts on the Berg video; it's worth taking a look.
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 18:31 Comments || Top||

#5  Interesting! Powell, the supposed Dove, telling it like it is.
Posted by: Phil B || 05/16/2004 18:44 Comments || Top||

#6  " ...Pulls out a machete-like knife and decapitates him." I don't think so, what he pulled out was a butcher knife and he slowly sawed Berg's head off while having some trouble cutting through the cervical vertebrae. Decapitation with a machete would have been cleaner and quicker. Disgusting act and irresponsible reporting.
Posted by: Don || 05/16/2004 18:44 Comments || Top||

#7  The Arab world should be showing "a higher level of outrage" over the death of an American businessman whose beheading was posted on an Islamist Web site last week, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday.

And this exercise by Mr. Powell in pointing this out achieves.....?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 05/16/2004 23:55 Comments || Top||

#8  Dont forget the amazing Lack of outrage by our own media!

ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/BBC/etc all approved the murder of Burg as well. Just look at how quickly they buried it (or switch the coverage to those watching the video...) in their hatred Bush treachery.

They refuse to acknowlege the link between their insane butt-farking of the dead Prison story in order to 'blame Bush' and the murder.

BTW: Has Kerry and Kennedy shown any outrage?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 05/17/2004 0:12 Comments || Top||


Al-Jazeera Airs Hostage Footage
The Arab news network Al-Jazeera broadcast footage Sunday of two Russian hostages held in Iraq, and read a statement from a group that demanded foreign troops withdraw from the country. The brief footage showed the two men, seemingly in good health, sitting against a wall. One of the men was drinking out of a metal cup, while the other was sitting nearby. The men seemed to be talking with other people in the room, who were not shown.

Al-Jazeera spokesman Jihad Ballout said the video was received Sunday, but he would not say how. The statement, from a group calling itself the Army of Al-Ta’ifah al-Mansurah (the victorious sect), said it had kidnapped the Russians and demanded that foreign countries withdraw their troops from Iraq. A copy of the statement, read by an Al-Jazeera announcer, was shown on half of the screen.

The Russians, employees of Interenergoservis, were attacked last Monday in Musayyib, about 60 kilometers south of Baghdad, where they worked at the Southern Baghdad power station, said a Russian diplomat in Baghdad. One other worker was killed in the attack.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 05/16/2004 5:30:14 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Blasts rock Sadr stronghold
Memo to Sadr: We know where you live.
From correspondents in Baghdad

May 17, 2004

THREE mortar rounds hit the east Baghdad stronghold of radical Shiite Muslim leader Moqtada Sadr today. "Three mortar rounds impacted in Sadr City," a US military spokesman said. It was not immediately clear whether the shells were fired by coalition troops or Sadr’s Mehdi Army, which is holed up in the impoverished suburb.
A little internal dissent perhaps, or just the usual incompetence?
"There were no injuries or any damage to buildings or equipment," the spokesman added. US Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of military operations, said yesterday that American forces had killed 14 Iraqis and wounded 10 others in the previous 24 hours in Sadr City.

US vehicles earlier patrolled the area and used loudspeakers to call on residents to hand over weapons in 10 days in exchange for cash.
EMPHASIS ADDED
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 4:36:36 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1 
"There were no injuries or any damage to buildings or equipment,"
a US military spokesman said, "so it obviously wudden us."
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 16:53 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine
Israel ’to step up demolitions’
Sounds like a case of get your sh!t together or we’ll take it apart for you.
Sunday, 16 May, 2004, 19:21 GMT 20:21 UK

The Israeli army has said it plans to destroy hundreds more homes in the Gaza Strip, after Israel’s Supreme Court said demolitions could go ahead. Chief of Staff Lt Gen Moshe Yaalon said the homes along the border with Egypt needed to be destroyed to prevent them being used by Palestinian militants. The court earlier rejected an appeal by Palestinians against the destruction. The US has joined a growing chorus of international condemnation, saying it opposes the demolition policy. UN relief officials estimate that Israel has destroyed more than 80 buildings in the Rafah camp during the past few days, leaving about 1,100 Palestinians homeless.
Converting residential houses into sniper outposts, weapons assembly lines or arms depots disqualifies them as homes. For those unclear on the subject, the same goes for any similar abuse of mosques.
’Self-defence’

The Supreme Court on Sunday lifted a temporary injunction banning the military from demolishing any more homes. Opponents argued that the demolitions were an illegitimate act of revenge, after 13 Israeli soldiers were killed by Palestinian militants in the area last week. Military officials told the court the demolitions were only carried out to defend soldiers’ lives and that no homes were needlessly destroyed.
If the Israelis were intent on "needlessly" destroying Palestinian houses there would have been none left standing quite some time ago.
In delivering its ruling, the court said the army was entitled to carry out demolitions for reasons of self-defence. Israel says militants have used the buildings as shelter from which to attack troops patrolling the 50-metre wide (160 feet) border with Egypt, known as the Philadelphia Corridor, and as cover to smuggle weapons through tunnels from Egypt. Gen Yaalon said hundreds of homes near Israel’s border with Egypt are earmarked for destruction.
Memo to Palestinians: Property values headed for steep decline pursuant to any terror complicity.
"If we get to this point we will destroy them," he said. Dozens of Palestinians reportedly started to evacuate their homes in the Rafah camp after the court issued its ruling. "I don’t know what to take. I will start with clothes or the refrigerator or the television," said Abed al-Majid Abu Shamala, 52, preparing to leave a four-storey building.
I wonder if it will ever occur to this guy that just avoiding any involvement with terror would prevent this. Nah, too simple.
Israel rebuked

There has been widespread international condemnation of the Gaza demolitions. The head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNWRA), Peter Hansen, said he was "extremely alarmed" at the planned demolitions, describing it as "collective punishment".
Anyone willing to step in and explain how the terrorist mass murders in Israel aren’t a form of "collective punishment?"
The Palestinian cabinet said the demolitions were tantamount to "ethnic cleansing". UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said the destruction violated international law.
Wow! Kofi Annan talking about violating "international law."
POT -> KETTLE -> BLACK
The man’s a walking violation of international law, human rights, logic, ethics and a host of other essential moral foundations.

And US Secretary of State Colin Powell, voicing rare criticism of Washington’s closest Middle East ally, said that although Israel had the right to defend itself, the US did not think the demolitions were "productive". Mr Powell also rebuked Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat for urging Palestinians to "terrorise the enemy". He said Mr Arafat was making it "exceptionally difficult" to move the peace process forward.
Who gives a crap about "productive." Tell that to Tali Hatuel and her four daughters.
Early on Sunday, Israeli helicopters fired missiles at targets in Gaza City, hitting buildings used by Mr Arafat’s Fatah movement and offices of a newspaper that has supported the Hamas militant group. The blasts caused heavy damage to the buildings and several bystanders were reported wounded.
Memo to Arafat: Your hourglass is running real low on sand.
Peace rally

More than 100,000 Israelis attended a rally on Saturday night calling for an Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. The demonstration in Tel Aviv was organised to show support for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s pullout plan, which has been rejected by the ruling Likud Party. Labour leader Shimon Peres told the demonstrators that Israel "will say good-bye to Gaza". The rally organisers claimed it was one of the largest protests of its kind since the demonstrations against Israel’s invasion of Lebanon in the 1980s.
If saying "goodbye" involves leveling the entire place to its foundations, go for it Bosco.
Posted by: Zenster || 05/16/2004 4:26:49 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It's like a yesterday!
ewerbody sing!

D-90 to the rescuE!
D-90 to thje resuceue!

Go D-90!

LOL still funny
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:46 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Start co-operating or we’ll hand you over, Saddam told
CIA interrogators have seized on an admission by Saddam Hussein that he fears torture at the hands of his Iraqi enemies, and are threatening him with a quick handover to the new government in a renewed effort to break his silence.

They are also trying to exploit a new-found obsession of the former dictator with hygiene and careful food preparation to persuade him to begin giving information after five frustrating months of questioning.

Yikes! It took the CIA a total of FIVE MONTHS to figure out Saddam was scared to be turned over to his not so loyal subjects. Tenet’s "lights out" disease must have infected the whole darn organization. This article reads like something out of The Onion. Also Saddam, who had no problems about hiding in a rathole and living on chocolate bars has conned the CIA into thinking he is obsessive compulsive about hygiene and food preparation. On a more serious note, this is very worrisome. When you try to extract information from an enemy with official POW status, and you can’t use dog leashes or frilly panties on the face, you get zilch.
Posted by: rex || 05/16/2004 5:52:26 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  They should give him a countdown clock to 0001 July 1.
Posted by: Mr. Davis || 05/16/2004 15:11 Comments || Top||

#2  #1, they already have, at least implicitly.

Rex, I'm not as critical of the CIA as you. Saddam is a psychopath, and psychopaths are notoriously difficult to interrogate. The fact that he hid in a dirt hole and ate candy bars when necessary doesn't contradict the fact that when he was in power he was very obsessed with his appearance and with hygeine. He's already got a lawyer & expects to have a chance to use his powers of pursuasion soon, but fears being turned over ... yes, none of that is news, but the potential immediacy of either his chance to grandstand or of retribution means the CIA may have an opening to shift him a bit.

If you think getting info from him should have been easy, you haven't got a clue LOL.
Posted by: rkb || 05/16/2004 15:19 Comments || Top||

#3  He really, really doesn't want to go back to the people who wouldn't think twice about using his own methods against him.

On the other hand, maybe he does; no one ever accused him of being smart.
Posted by: The Doctor || 05/16/2004 16:02 Comments || Top||

#4  Speaking of his mouthpiece, maybe now would be a good time for a legal revolution: the lawyer gets the same penalty as his client. Sure would cut down of weak defenses.

Think of it as evolution in action
Posted by: mojo || 05/16/2004 16:16 Comments || Top||

#5  Denunciation of this interrogation tactic as "humiliation" and "torture" by Teddy Kennedy, Pelosi, and the rest of the LLL moonbat brigade in 5, 4, 3.....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 16:18 Comments || Top||


Iraqi General Urges Support of U.S. Troops
FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) - A former Saddam Hussein-era general appointed by the Americans to lead an Iraqi security force in the rebellious Sunni stronghold of Fallujah urged tribal elders and sheiks Sunday to support U.S. efforts to stabilize Iraq. Retired Maj. Gen. Mohammed Abdul-Latif rose to prominence after nearly monthlong battles last month between the Marines monthlong battles in April between the Marines and insurgents hunkered down in Fallujah's neighborhoods.

"We can make them (Americans) use their rifles against us or we can make them build our country, it's your choice," Latif told a gathering of more than 40 sheiks, city council members and imams in an eastern Fallujah suburb.
"It's time to learn cause-and-effect!"
On Sunday, Marines of the 1st Battalion, 5th Regiment provided security for the gathering in Kharma. Latif, 66, a native of Baghdad, urged the elders to talk freely, citing the Muslim holy book, the Quran. "The Quran says we should sit together, discuss and make a decision, but let it be the right decision," the silver-haired Latif - a slim figure wearing a blue shirt and dark blue tie and pants - told the sheiks.
Amazing, you can find just about anything in the Qu'ran.
The venue offered a rare insight into Latif's interactions and influence over Fallujah elders. As he spoke, many sheiks nodded in approval and listened with reverence to his words. Later, they clasped his hands and patted Latif on the back.

Latif, speaking in Arabic to the sheiks, defended the Marines and the U.S. occupation of Iraq. "They were brought here by the acts of one coward who was hunted out of a rathole - Saddam - who disgraced us all," Latif said. "Let us tell our children that these men (U.S. troops) came here to protect us. ... As President Bush said, they did not come here to occupy our land but to get rid of Saddam. We can help them leave by helping them do their job, or we can make them stay ten years and more by keeping fighting."

Lt. Col. Brennan Byrne, the Marine battalion commander, said, "No truer words have been spoken here today than those by General Latif."

Latif also told the insurgents to "stop doing stupid things." "Those bullets that are fired will not get the Americans out, let them finish their job here so that they can return to their country," Latif said. "Our country is precious, stop allowing the bad guys to come from outside Iraq to destroy our country."

Latif, a former military intelligence officer said to have been imprisoned by Saddam and exiled, praised the former Iraqi army. "The army used to be honest until Saddam made the men turn into beasts, take bribes, betray their own country," he said. "The real army is the army that works hard to serve its own citizens, with courage and strength."
This guy is good. He hit all the right buttons: patriotism, praising the Army as good before Saddam perverted it, reminding the sheiks that once we leave, things get back to "normal", and that attacking Americans makes Americans mad.
After the meeting, Latif told The Associated Press that the situation in Fallujah has greatly improved, that "winds of peace" prevail in the city and the people that fled the fighting have returned. He would not elaborate on the size or current activities of the Fallujah Brigade. "Let us speak about peace," Latif said in English. "Fallujah was an open wound, now it's healing."
If he's right we'll have solved a big problem, and we may just have an example that can be replicated.
Posted by: Steve White || 05/16/2004 3:01:17 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I've been told that Latif's strengths include his Arabic erudition. Apparently, this culture is easily impressed by elegent phrases, beautiful metiphors and the like.
Posted by: mhw || 05/16/2004 15:13 Comments || Top||

#2  mhw - Some people in our culture are also "easily impressed by elegent phrases, beautiful metiphors and the like" - which explains Clinton.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 16:44 Comments || Top||

#3  MHW has a good point though Barbara.

Arab culture does put a high premium on being well spoken. The writing can remind one of the best Russian and Irish authors.

If this General is politically alright and can rally
the big cheeses to see our logic and that our cause is just, then the blessings of Allen be upon him.
Posted by: JDB || 05/16/2004 16:52 Comments || Top||

#4  This could be one of the more important stories in the war. If this general can rally the opinion leaders and people in this area to this most sensible view, a major objective will have been met.

If the Sunnis get on board, and with things going as they are with the Shiites, the US may very well be on it's way to accomplishing a very substantial goal: stability in the country and a clear path to representative democracy.

The key is making sure the people are convinced that we mean what we say and will leave them to run their own affairs.
Posted by: RMcLeod || 05/16/2004 17:23 Comments || Top||

#5  Good article--Thanks, Steve!
Posted by: Dar || 05/16/2004 23:19 Comments || Top||

#6  I would feel better about this if there were some heavy weapons and a few foreign fighters turned in. Talk is cheap.

It appears to be a hopeful sign, but as Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."
Posted by: RWV || 05/17/2004 0:14 Comments || Top||

#7  HipHip Hooray, Latif for President!
Posted by: Anonymous4880 || 05/17/2004 7:31 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
US soldier killed in Taliban raid
One American soldier was killed in Afghanistan and two were slightly wounded after their convoy was attacked near Girishk, in the southern province of Helmand, the U.S. military said on Sunday.

A brief statement said the attack took place late on Saturday, and the two wounded soldiers had already returned to duty. One suspect had been detained.

The attack appeared to be the same as a clash reported by Afghan officials in an area around 80 km (50 miles) north of Girishk called Mosa Qala. Mosa Qala is 450 km (280 miles) southwest of Kabul.

Helmand intelligence chief Haji Dad Mohammad Khan told Reuters that three suspected Taliban had been arrested after attacking U.S. forces in the area, and that up to 500 Afghan troops were involved in search operations.

Haji Mohammad Wali, spokesman for the Helmand governor, said unidentified men in a car attacked the convoy and damaged one U.S. military vehicle. American forces called in close air support.

Taliban spokesman Haji Latif Hakimi said the radical Islamic militia waging an insurgency against foreign troops and the central government was behind the attack, although his claims of 10 U.S. soldiers killed appeared to be exaggerated.

In a separate incident, a U.S. soldier suffered severe wounds when his vehicle was hit by a bomb on Thursday around 30 km (19 miles) southeast of Qalat in the southern province of Zabul.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 05/16/2004 11:53:11 AM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:


Africa: North
Two more dead in Algeria violence
Two more people were killed in separate attacks by suspected Islamic extremists in Algeria, press reports said today. A 37-year-old man who was a captain in the Algerian navy was killed on Friday while on holiday at his parents’ home in the town of Saharidj, some 120 kilometres southeast of Algiers in the Kabylie region, one report said.

And the daily newspaper Le Quotidien d’Oran said a farmer was killed on Thursday when he drove his tractor over a bomb left by an armed group at Sidi M’hidi in the western region of Saida. The press on Saturday also reported the deaths of two others on Friday - a soldier killed by an armed extremist group in the eastern region near Jijel, and a local police officer murdered at a fake security force checkpoint at the Tirourda mountain pass, in the Tizi Ouzou region of Kabylie. The latest killings take the number of people reported dead in political violence to more than 230 this year.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 05/16/2004 11:54:08 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq-Jordan
Iraqi Women Working for Coalition Killed
Gunmen fired on a minibus in Baghdad on Sunday, killing two Iraqi women who were working for the U.S.-led coalition, and assailants in a southern city killed a coalition translator and critically injured another in attacks on their houses, police and witnesses said. The attackers who fired on the bus in Baghdad also detonated explosives in it, killing the driver and injuring another woman. Lt. Ali Omran of al-Dora police station said the attacked women were working for the Americans, but he did not specify their jobs. An Iraqi woman working with U.S. troops as a translator was killed and another was critically injured when gunmen broke into their houses in Mahmoudiyah, said Dawood al-Taee, director of the city’s hospital.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 05/16/2004 10:27:15 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Only Authorized Harsh Method for Iraq Prisoners Is Solitary Confinement
From an article about testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee on May 11.
Mr. [Stephen A.] Cambone, [the under secretary of defense for intelligence] and other military officials said the interrogation techniques approved for use in Iraq were straight out of the Army manual and followed the Geneva Conventions. In that respect, he said, they differed from harsher techniques, like sleep deprivation and forcing prisoners to disrobe entirely for interrogations, that are authorized for use at the American prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

Lt. Gen. Lance Smith, the deputy commander of American forces in the Middle East, said that under a policy issued last Oct. 12, the only extraordinary measure authorized for use in Iraq was placing prisoners in solitary confinement for more than 30 days. That step required the approval of the American commander in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, but General Smith said he was not aware of it ever being used.
Cambone confirmed in response to questioning that this policy applied to prisoners of war and also to people arrested for suspected terrorist acts or for suspected criminal acts.

Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 05/16/2004 12:36:16 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It looks like the same legal eagles in the military who objected to arresting bin Laden or attempting to assassinate (rather than capture) him are now trying to oust Rumsfeld from the Defense Department. It is time for Bush to start purging the military's legal department.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 05/16/2004 1:01 Comments || Top||

#2  Shows how important this election is Zhang. And also BTW too, Thx for Zhang Fei. Grown ups!
Posted by: Lucky || 05/16/2004 1:47 Comments || Top||

#3  Reminder that Canadians tortured and murdered captured Somalis, during the 'nineties intervention.
Link

...The pictures, which showed Shidane (captured Somali) trussed and hog-tied in a bunker during an hours-long beating that eventually killed him, provided graphic proof of the Canadian soldier's inhumanity - in one infamous image, Mr Matchee holds a baton in Shidane's mouth, like a bit in the jaw of a horse. In another, he puts a gun to the head of the blindfolded and bleeding teen.

...During the 1980s and 1990s, it was an open secret in the military that the Airborne Regiment had become home to a small but highly troubling subset of soldiers who revelled in their bad-boy image. One former general referred to the unit as "a car driven by teenagers."

...It was later determined that at least 80 men would have heard the piercing screams that Shidane made as he was beaten, and that at least 16 soldiers had visited the bunker and witnessed the beating at various stages. Some saw the violence in its later stages, yet did nothing.




Posted by: Must Read || 05/16/2004 2:48 Comments || Top||

#4  I see a silver lining in all of this: if solitary confinement is all that is available, then there's no need to capture wanted individuals. Once they're located, just shoot them and be done with it. No need to feed 'em, clothe 'em, or care for 'em.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 05/16/2004 4:34 Comments || Top||

#5  surly there are still other methods open to us,surly we can still snaek in some pshycological torture to break them down,how about some music,some tapes played of saddam being dragged from his pit,that sort of thing,.If we cant do that then we really should just shredd them where they stand in the street.What really fucks me off is the way the media report 90% of the prisoners are innocent,is this based on what the prisoners say? Now the media believe everything the ex prisoners say.I'd like to see the US army collect some statistics on these 'innocent' prisoners,bet you 80% of them were sunni's and ex-baathists! maybve the reason the eneamy casulaty rate has shot up in the weeks following the prisoner scandel is due to the fact we are now gonna take no prisoners,the gloves are half off now...
Posted by: Shep UK || 05/16/2004 6:01 Comments || Top||

#6  Like the concept that rape, pillage, and selling the women and children into slavery were spoils of war, I'm happy to see that we might move beyond the barbaric practice of torture. If we do, we will be infinitely more civilized.

And we will learn other methods. Just because torture is the easiest method, doesn't mean it is the best. Denied the easy route, someone will find a way to pull info out of their evil brains.

While I understand that what I'm saying isn't easy and maybe not even smart in this day of wmd's. But if we can get there, hooray. What I love about America is that we TRY.
Posted by: B || 05/16/2004 8:24 Comments || Top||

#7  OK I hate myself but I DO see a need to use some torture techniques on certain prisoners. If we had a drug that we could just give people and get vital inforamation I would be for that but there isn't. Some of these prisoners had/have information on Iraqi terrorists networks and arms stockpiles. If thier 'treatment' saved just one coalition/Iraqi life then it was worth it. "Sometimes in order to make an omlet, you have to break some eggs."
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 05/16/2004 9:47 Comments || Top||

#8  Don't know if anyone has officially tried solitary confinement with infrasound or ultrasound pumped into the cell, but I would imagine that this would break most people pretty quickly (if days is quick enough).
Posted by: Lux || 05/16/2004 9:58 Comments || Top||

#9  Cambone has committed a major act of perjury.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 05/16/2004 14:47 Comments || Top||

#10  Exactly how has Cambone perjured himself? In what venue, with what statement and under what oath?
Posted by: spiffo || 05/16/2004 14:57 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine
Powell: Palestinians to Mull Gaza Deal
After which they'll reject it and try some more infitada.
Secretary of State Colin Powell said Saturday the Palestinians are willing to consider a proposed Israeli pullout from Gaza depending on how Prime Minister Ariel Sharon revises a plan rejected by his party. "I think that the Palestinians want to seize the Joooos by the throat this opportunity," Powell said after a 40-minute meeting with Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei in Amman, the Jordanian capital. "They want to know more about it, of course."
Not that it will matter.
So, too, does the Bush administration, Powell later told ministers from some 50 nations, including Israel, at an economic conference at this Dead Sea resort. "And so we are all waiting to see what the actual plan is, and to see the details of that plan," Powell said at a joint news conference with Qureia at the Amman airport. Qureia, whose authority is zero unclear because Yasser Arafat remains the Palestinian leader, described the meeting as "very, very constructive." "I believe it will reflect itself on the ground, hopefully very soon," Qureia said. During Powell's conversation with Qureia, the secretary made clear that the prime minister must take control of Palestinian security forces, and making headway toward a Palestinian state depends on ending violence, the official said on condition of anonymity.
So much for that.
Operating with uncommon support from the United Nations, the European Union and Russia, the administration overcame its initial wariness and seized on Sharon's offer to withdraw from Gaza and dismantle some settlements on the West Bank. Until Sharon stepped forward, "We were not getting anywhere," Powell acknowledged in a speech to the World Economic Forum, "It is an opportunity we all should seize, removing settlements," Powell said. At the same time, he cast President Bush's support for Israel's retention of some population clusters on the West Bank as a matter that requires the approval of the Palestinians.
Whatever for?
He said that is the case also with other "final status" issues, including Jerusalem, which the Arabs want as the rocket launching site capital of a Palestinian terrorist state, and borders between Israel and what would be the new state of terrorist Palestine. The forum's host, King Abdullah II of Jordan, urged international support actively regional justice and peace in the Middle East. "Let the world's leaders demonstrate, once and for all, that they have been conned are serious about Palestinian freedom unlike my father and countrymen who've never been serious about the Palestinians", said Abdullah, who met with Bush at the White House 1 1/2 weeks ago. "This must include peace and security for Israelis and Palestinians, and the creation of an independent Palestine so long as that doesn't threaten Jordan." Powell said time is up running out on Bush's pledge to create a Palestinian state in 2005. "I don't think anybody can predict right now whether we will be able to achieve 2005 or not," Powell said.
I can! Pick me! Pick me!
"But right now, it's more important to get started and let's see progress, and then we'll see what date that state can be achieved in," he said. "Time is passing and we have to look a the reality of the situation," Powell said. Qureia said he still hoped the Palestinians would have a state by the end of next year. "We have enough time to finish the negotiations and to have a Palestinian state according to President Bush's vision if we can just get them pesky Jooooos to submit to the knife," he said.
Posted by: Steve White || 05/16/2004 12:02:21 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Brotheren are in accord.
Posted by: Lucky || 05/16/2004 0:23 Comments || Top||

#2  Can anyone explain, honestly, the difference between a "Palestinan" and a "Jordanian"?
Posted by: cpm || 05/16/2004 0:49 Comments || Top||

#3  Location.
Posted by: AzCat || 05/16/2004 1:03 Comments || Top||

#4  One works,the other demands handouts.
Posted by: Stephen || 05/16/2004 1:41 Comments || Top||

#5  A lingering odor of C-4.
Posted by: Seafarious || 05/16/2004 2:16 Comments || Top||

#6  I don't even see why the Bush administration is even bothering. The Paleos have had more chances than is really necessary to get their act together. And like the losers that they are, time and time again they chose poorly. Screw the Palestinians. Israel needs to disengage itself in any way they see fit, and whatever happens with the Paleos happens. GWB's (and his State Department) little "relationship" with the Palestinians is much like the woman that can't bring herself to leave a man for good, even after being beaten repeatedly.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 05/16/2004 4:29 Comments || Top||

#7  Jordanians don't kill their children - yet
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2004 9:08 Comments || Top||

#8  There's at least one hot Jordanian.
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 10:42 Comments || Top||

#9  Sorry Shipman but Her Majesty, Queen Noor, nee Lisa Halaby is, I believe, Syrian.

A Jersey girl, in fact, as she grew up and went to school in New Jersey.

Her step son, King Abdullah, also went to school in the States. A buddy of mine knew him at boarding school. He said Abdullah was a nice, regular guy.

But you're correct that Lisa/Noor is drop dead gorgeous.
Posted by: JDB || 05/16/2004 17:03 Comments || Top||

#10 
I think that the Palestinians want to seize this opportunity," Powell said
Er, Mr. Secretary, you might want to remember that "Palestinians" never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, so it's unlikely they'll seize this one.

You do know there's a fine line between optimism and stupidity gullibility, don't you, sir?.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2004 18:25 Comments || Top||

#11  A Jersey girl, in fact

Whoa! I'ma love a good fairy tale. ;>
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 19:48 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
40 'Iraqi' terrorists killed as US seeks end to resistance
The commander of US forces in Iraq on Saturday called for a swift end to the resistance led by Shia leader Moqtada Sadr as more than 40 Iraqis were killed during a 24-hour period. Lt Gen Ricardo Sanchez said the uprising had to be ended "fairly quickly" after more than a month of fighting between Sadr's followers and occupying troops across central and southern Iraq. The US-led Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) described the fighting in the towns of Nasiriyah and Amara as a "minor" uprising that had been quelled. The worst of the latest fighting was near the southern city of Amara on Friday. British troops there claimed killing 20 militiamen after two vehicles were ambushed. Two British soldiers were wounded in the attack when their two Land Rovers came under fire in a series of gun and grenade attacks but were able to drive to safety after reinforcements were called in.

US troops claimed killing another 14 militiamen in a series of clashes in Sadr City, a predominantly Shia locality of the capital where Sadr's Mehdi Army has battled occupying forces for weeks. In Karbala, Moqtada Sadr's militia clashed with US forces for a fourth straight day, losing four fighters, as soldiers using loudspeakers urged people to leave the area. Another three civilians were killed and seven wounded in fighting between the Mehdi Army and the US-trained Iraqi Civil Defence Corps (ICDC) in Karbala, medics said. An ICDC patrol came under attack 50 metres from the shrines of Hazrat Imam Hussein and Hazrat Imam Abbas in the city centre, witnesses said.
Posted by: Mark Espinola & Steve White || 05/16/2004 12:00:00 AM || Comments || Link || [12 views] Top|| File under:

#1  hmmmmm tag team posters, decadent.
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2004 10:40 Comments || Top||



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Two weeks of WOT
Sun 2004-05-16
  N Korean train accident involved Syrians
Sat 2004-05-15
  Coalition warns Karbala residents to leave
Fri 2004-05-14
  Chad rebels holding el-Para
Thu 2004-05-13
  GSPC's Hassan Hattab was executed
Wed 2004-05-12
  Abu Qatada authorized 3/11 bombers' mass suicide
Tue 2004-05-11
  American beheaded by Zarqawi
Mon 2004-05-10
  IDF nabs loaded Paleo hermaphrodite
Sun 2004-05-09
  Kadyrov boomed in Chechnya
Sat 2004-05-08
  Tater offers reward for British as sex slaves
Fri 2004-05-07
  Oregon Man Arrested in Spain Bombings Probe
Thu 2004-05-06
  Georgia reclaims Adzharia
Wed 2004-05-05
  Tater boyz thumped in Karbala
Tue 2004-05-04
  Turkey suspects trained in Pakistan, intended to attack Bush
Mon 2004-05-03
  Turkish Police Detain 16 24 People
Sun 2004-05-02
  Paleos kill Mom, 4 kids


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