More on the previous post...
An al Qaeda plot to blast London was dramatically foiled by police today. Seven hundred police swooped in a series of 6am raids in the capital and the Home Counties. They found half a tonne of fertiliser explosives - enough for a series of terror "spectaculars". The terrorist suspects arrested by police are believed to have chosen "soft targets" for bombings including pubs and clubs. One of the suspects being held had a job at Gatwick Airport, immediately raising concerns over airlines and passengers. A total of eight men - all of them British citizens of Pakistani descent, three of them teenagers - were arrested in the operation, with police from five forces searching a total of 24 addresses across London and the South-East.
The ammonium nitrate explosives were discovered in a self-storage warehouse in Hanwell, west London and have now been made safe. They are the same explosives that al Qaeda used in attacks in Bali, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. The raids came only two weeks after Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens warned that an attack on London was "inevitable" and that the targets could include pubs, clubs and shopping centres. Scotland Yard deputy assistant commissioner Peter Clarke said today: "I must stress the threat from terrorism is very real and the public must remain watchful and alert."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 9:47:31 AM ||
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#1
Hark! I hear the cries of police harrassment already.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 10:01 Comments ||
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#2
This morning the BBC reporter I heard on the radio said that no official statement had been made about ethnicity, though a source told him the suspects were "Asian."
Bias or BS?
Glad to see a report confirming what they are.
BTW, something like 700 policemen were involved in this.
#7
Amazingly, this isn't the lead on the Beeb's website. Instead, the lead is Rice's testimony, which is described as something like "White House U-Turn on 9/11 Inquiry."
I can only assume the thinking (or perhaps instinct) is: Why waste space on great work by the police in preventing a major attack when you can take another shot at Bush?
Posted by: Matt ||
03/30/2004 12:39 Comments ||
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#8
The story was the lead on BBC World News (the telly ),so they're not altogether out of order.
Posted by: El Id ||
03/30/2004 12:47 Comments ||
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#9
Thanks for the link, Jen. The Islamotwerps are so incredibly infuriating!!! First they defend their terrorist buddies, then they threaten British citizens with retaliation for busting said terrorists and covering it in the news. (How dare they, those Zionist piglet Brits!) Of course, no word condemning the actions of their own. And why should they? Not many frequent pubs and clubs, so it would be a net gain from their point of view, if the operation had succeeded. All they have to do now is run interference.
Must be still using the Kipling stylebook:
East of Med = Asian.
South of Med = Wogs
East of Channel = Frogs
Posted by: Steve ||
03/30/2004 15:36 Comments ||
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#12
A good rule of thumb is:
- if the authorities are coy about ethnicity, then your guess about their ethnicity is most likely correct.
- if the authorities deny the suspects are members of ethnic group X, then believe them.
It's a negative test, but it works.
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
03/30/2004 15:44 Comments ||
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#13
Here, as in Spain, I am curious what they are going to do with the suspects if convicted? Interestingly, all of European countries forbid the death penality and a county can't even join the EU with a death penalty law on the books.
I am surprised that the Spanish people aren't calling for the death penalty for the Madird Bombers. And even here, in sunny 'ol England, I am coming to believe that these defendants, if convicted, even with no deaths involved from their activity, deserve the death penalty.
#14
Traveller, as an American, I am curious to see how the legal side of this shakes out, for a variety of reasons.
My gut feeling is that, even if convictions happen, they will in practice amount to a few years. Which means that these people will have further chances to commit outrages, and will be armed with great ideas they pick up from the Muslim holy men that visit the prisons.
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
03/30/2004 15:50 Comments ||
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#15
Well, you're exactly correct, Carl. They'll get a few years...and be better at their vocation when they are released.
BTW, I am Americian myself, and a self proclaimed Liberal, but on the Death Penality I've really had no problems reconciling the ultimate punishment with my overall mindset.
Generally, it is better that a guilty man be spared than even run the risk of executing an innocent man...but were there is no doubt, (mass murderer's ect ect), then the death penality is certainly appropriste.
With Terrorist, howerver, I believe that the opposite it true...it is better that a few innocent be executed than to let one guilty go free. I have no problem with this moral calculus.
I wonder when or if Europe will get on board with this? What is interesting is that Death for the Madrid Bombers isn't even being discussed...it's not on the radar screen at all. Seems odd to me.
#16
Ok, I saw this as a headline in the 'Evening Standard' as I was coming up on a train from London today with my girlfriend (at the same conference). She didn't point it out, I didn't say anything (we have an agreement that way). I can get much better information off the internet than I can the papers.
I think she was quiet because we were talking about this on Saturday over dinner, I said it was inevitable and that what happened after that would depend on the scale of the atrocity - don't forget, we've lived with the IRA for 30 years here - wonder why you don't see litter bins in tube stations and railway stations? Blame "the bhoys" for that one. In other words, we're somewhat desensitised to terrorist attacks over here.
What happens after the hit? It really depends on the scale. 20+ will be nasty, but not much will change, Madrid level (200+) means more draconian measures, and a possible backlash against Muslims in this country. 9/11 scale (3000+) is a different level, and I really can't even guess what happens then - we did have 'killing squads' that took out portions of the IRA, and I'm sure that should there be a 9/11 scale hit on the UK, that membership of those squads would be overflowing.
I'm not happy about all this, as I know it's inevitable. It's what happens after it happens that concerns me.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
03/30/2004 18:11 Comments ||
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#17
Traveller, your take on death penalty gibes with mine -- yes, there *are* some cases where guilt is not in doubt.
Leave the death penalty aside because it quickly gets complicated: death for the actual bombers only, or their entire support network ? How to be sure who would have been a bomber, and who was in support only ? etc etc.
I am curious to see exactly how a sentence would play out. My impression of the Euro legal system is that overall it is lenient (why, yes, I did buy this broad brush recently, do you like it ? ), and terrorism is a good case to test that assumption. Another thing to test is how easily cowed future governments would be in the face of new outrages committed to free imprisoned terrorists. When I said "in practice" in my earlier post, that was meant to cover not only a lenient original sentence, but the possibility of an early release due to future terrorist demands, pressure from lobby groups, "world opinion" etc.
IMO, it is better to kill terrorists outright on the battlefield where practicable.
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
03/30/2004 18:44 Comments ||
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#18
Traveller's use of the word calculus, and his arguments, combined with Tony's remarks remind me of how insane (IMHO) people are regards this issue.
Recall way back when... there was a mortar round that landed in a market in Sarayevo that killed 60 people. The very next day, our own asshat Peter "naturalized" Jennings was anchoring his ABC evening broadcast from the site, complete with his Roland Hedley (Doonesbury moron Reporter character) outfit and flak jacket. Now, for me, this was insane. For the previous 10 days, at least 5-6 people had died each day from sniper and mortar attacks, yet nothing happened - no one showed up, no righteous anger or indignation. One big splash, and here they came, out of the woodwork, to declaim the violence and posture, preen, and parade their sensibilities and morality. The difference? Beats the fuck outta me. One is too fucking many.
So calculate all you like, gentlemen and gentlewomen, regardless of your position. I submit:
If it's all grown up, and it's so broken that it KILLS innocents, then you're just going to have to kill it - unless you want to FURTHER burden your people by paying for its upkeep, BBC license and colour TV, and 3 squares a day - not to mention insult and remind the survivors of its victims that it's still alive - and their loved ones are dead.
#19
Sooner or later, probably later, Europe, including the UK, is going to coming around on the death penalty. I've seen reports that the majority of people on the Continent support the death penalty right now (not sure about the UK). You can't let political mass murderers get away with (limited) jail time. That sends a huge message, and it is the wrong one.
You have just rolled up a group *before* they committed any outrages, and you have the explosives, proof, etc.
Is it death penalty for the bombers only, or do you go after the suppliers of the materials, bombmakers, and other support personnel ?
Personally, I support the death penalty for anybody who is knowingly engaged in some way in organizing, supporting, or committing the mass slaughter of innocents, from the top-level planners to the low-level cannon fodder.
However, that is not a quickly resolved debate among the public of most Western nations.
I note that Asahara recently got the death penalty for the atrocities committed by Aum Shinrikyo in Japan that he organized.
Posted by: Carl in NH ||
03/30/2004 21:59 Comments ||
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#21
This is where cingold and others can explain far better than I the rule of law (and we have State & Federal Law possibilities, as well) regards criminal liability for murder, from act to accessory to conspiracy. The law has evolved for 200 years, more if we decide to fall back to English Law where we have no precedent or theory, so it probably covers 95% of the questions you'd pose into account and deals fairly (or so the US public believes, for the most part) with them. The 5% outliers are always interesting, though. Anyway, when creating statutes to specifically deal with terrorism, they certainly had some solid experience to use as a starting point.
BTW, IMHO, the fact that we don't share case law or precedent law or even law theory (e.g. 'intent' & 'presumption of innocence' as key points and our legacy from the Mother Country) with much of the world is what makes the ICC an automatic non-starter. It always will be a dead duck, too, since we can be certain there will never be universal agreement on these fundamentals as they are sourced by custom and social standards. Everything that follows disagreement on fundamental theory is folly.
#22
Yeah, Carl, I saw that also. I didn't even know that Japan had a Death Penalty. It surprised me a bit. Though, of course, I agree that any public debate on this would be intense and Acrimonious.
I am not even sure where I would come down on the debate you posit re suppliers, aiders and abettors.
Still, what is interesting is that there is absolutely "Zero," discussion on this in Europe.
BTW, this days thread will end soon...it has been nice to read what you write.
#23
"I didn't even know that Japan had a Death Penalty"
Yep, they do. And when the Euros tell you that the US is the only major Western nation to have the death penalty, they are pulling a fast one on you...
Posted by: Carl in NH ||
03/30/2004 22:32 Comments ||
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#24
In my opinion, one way to look at the problem involves four factors:
Natural Law versus Legislated Law
and
Crime versus Punishment
The U.S., and English traditions, have favored âNatural Lawâ -- that we (as a people) have morals because they are built into us as aspects of the creation, and that laws flow naturally therefrom (regardless of what is "popular" at the time). Over time, Austinian legal theory (or the principle holding that the sovereign makes the law) has gained prominence (just like with much of the deconstructivism that has gone on in academia over the last few hundred years). Regardless, whether natural law or legislated law, murder and murderous plans by Islamofascists are considered crimes. Thatâs the easy part. It shouldnât be too hard to persuade a jury that (without a doubt) these nut jobs want to kill and maim, and teach their fellows to do likewise.
Then comes punishment, which in Western society is usually imposed by the Court, not the jury. Here the folks who follow Austinian legal theory would say what is appropriate punishment is whatever the legislatures (our current sovereigns) think best. This could vacillate greatly from country to country or even administration to administration. Natural Law theorists would differ -- holding to an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, ect., but tempered with mercy. Where the crime is sedition, rebellion, treason, accessory to murder, the punishment has traditionally been execution. I, for one, say give these people the very best trials with every presumption of innocence. If a jury finds that they aspired to, conspired toward, or committed acts of sedition, rebellion, treason, etc., they should hang.
Islamic terror suspects have been arrested and explosives recovered in raids across England. The arrests were made in Crawley, Luton, Redbridge, Ealing in London and in the Thames Valley...
Posted by: Lux ||
03/30/2004 3:08:59 AM ||
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#1
Please let it be 'Captain Hook'... Please.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 3:38 Comments ||
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Now saying on Sky that they've found Ammonium Nitrate - fertiliser bomb material a la Bali bomb. Didn't the IRA used to blow us up with this stuff? Nasty.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 4:40 Comments ||
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It is extremely difficult to get your hands on explosives in the UK. However, making your own is not that hard.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/30/2004 5:15 Comments ||
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#4
They're saying they've found a ton of the stuff according to Aunty.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 5:15 Comments ||
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#5
Crawley's near Gatwick airport, Luton - Luton airport, Redbridge - London City airport (and within an easy drive of Stansted), Ealing - heathrow airport. Looks like a simultaneous attack on London's airports might have been thwarted. Good job, boys!
#6
Well observed Watson. Also all places where Paks live in large numbers.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 5:34 Comments ||
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#7
Will this be another Gloucester, with almost the entire Pak community protesting about police harrassment and the innocence of those being questioned? Mmmm... 'I tell you Abdullah is a good boy who goes to the mosque. No way could he be behind this' etc. etc. We shall see...
Posted by: Chineapple Punk ||
03/30/2004 6:42 Comments ||
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#8
The Telegraph is reporting that all 8 are Pakistani-born Muslims.
Looks like British police averted a huge attack--Praise the Lord and pass the ammo!
Hope the cops keep looking and don't assume this is the only terrorist cell or stash of bomb materials in the UK, because I doubt if it is.
Posted by: Jen ||
03/30/2004 6:58 Comments ||
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#9
Jen, I heard all were British citizens. Pakistani-born possibly , but all UK passport holders. As a regular user of London's airports, praise the Lord indeed (and the boys in blue).
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 7:05 Comments ||
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#10
Don't worry about the police and security services resting on their laurels, Jen - this is just the latest in a long line of attempted terror attacks in the UK being interrupted. They've done an excellent job so far, and I hope they continue to do so.
The Telegraph aren't reporting the arrested man as Pakistani-born, but of being of "Pakistani descent".
Two men were arrested in Uxbridge, one in Ilford, one in Horley, one in Slough and three in Crawley. All the suspects are believed to be Muslims and British citizens of Pakistani descent. They are now being interviewed by anti-terrorist detectives.
As you said, the bobbies should have a pint on the house for this one!
Well done!
Posted by: Jen ||
03/30/2004 8:32 Comments ||
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#12
Thanks Jen... (Bobbies? Pints? You talk like a Brit!)
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 8:42 Comments ||
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#13
I've had the good fortune to have lived in England twice...and I've had not 1, not 2, but 3 English boyfriends in my full life!
Rule Britannia! LOL
Posted by: Jen ||
03/30/2004 8:44 Comments ||
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#14
3 Brit boyfriends. God, you poor bugger. I read on your site that we have a more l9iberal, touchy-feely approach to our Muslims. Not any more. These guys? Dip 'em in chocolate and throw them to the gays.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 8:48 Comments ||
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#15
These guys must of had some issues with the UK. Root causes. Cornish pasties maybe?
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 9:57 Comments ||
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#18
I was just waking up at the time, but it sounded like the SKY news correspondent that was on Fox News said something to the effect of 'They were positively cock-a-whoop about the find'.
I'm imagining chest-bumps all around. At any rate, good show!
LA PAZ, Bolivia (AP) - A suicide bomber detonated his explosive vest in the Bolivian congress Tuesday, killing himself and wounding two police officers, police said. Police Chief. Guido Arandea said the man had made his way to a first-floor section of the building, away from the Congressional chambers. He set off the bomb after security agents cleared the area, police said. Arandea said the two injured officers had tried to talk to the man before he set off the explosives.
Let's hope he's just a local Bolivian nut case and not a Chilean.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/30/2004 3:42:18 PM ||
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According to the BBC Spanish site, he was an ex-miner and went off just a couple of minutes after El Presidente left the building for a soccer game. His name is Eustaquio Icachuli Collaca and he was protesting pension reforms.
#4
I'm actually kind of shocked by this. I've been to Bolivia three times and I've always found it to be the kind of place where you might get mugged, but you would never get beaten up in the process. Peru on the other hand...
Itâs late at night and Abdul Salam Zoud has a problem. The leader of Sydneyâs Islamic fundamentalists needs prompt answers to some serious and specific questions. .... So he telephones one of al-Qaedaâs most dangerous figures halfway across the world. Sheikh Zoud sees nothing wrong with speaking with Abu Qatada - accused of providing a British safehaven for terrorists, including the chief suspect in the Madrid train bombings. He knows nothing of these claims. Qatada, now detained as part of Britainâs war on terror, is an expert in Islamic divorce and Sheikh Zoud needs his guidance. This is Sheikh Zoudâs explanation of a series of events that has led to him being named this month as a terrorist recruiter. He denies claims in a French secret dossier that he is a recruiter for jihad in Australia and has links with terrorists around the world. .... Sheikh Zoud says he made the call to Qatada several years ago after a member of his flock came to him after hours requesting a divorce from her husband. As the coupleâs spiritual adviser he was unsure how the Koran dealt with such requests from women. So he called Qatada who is also an expert in Islamic inheritance matters - the subject of a second telephone call. ....
Sheikh Zoud arrived from Lebanon 17 years ago, settling in Sydneyâs southwestern suburbs with his wife to raise six children in a small fibro house. He had a falling out with Taj Din al-Hilali, the leading Australian Islamic cleric based at Lakemba Mosque, and so later moved his sermons around the corner to the prayer hall in busy Haldon Street. There Sheikh Zoud teaches an offshoot of the fundamentalist Wahhabi form of Islam that is dominant in Saudi Arabia. It is a similar strand of Islam to that followed by Osama bin Laden - although not all Australian fundamentalists are sympathetic to the al-Qaeda leader. Several hundred faithful gather at the hall above an arcade to pray and hear Sheikh Zoud speak. They constitute a minority of Australiaâs 300,000-strong Muslim community. But ASIO keeps close surveillance on both this congregation and their counterparts in Melbourne. ... He doubts a terrorism attack will ever take place on Australian soil. This country is a peaceful one. And Australian Muslims including himself will stop any plot if they discover it. "Our history here indicates that we are probably more eager to maintain its sense of security than others. That is because we have lived through wars and its devastations in our own homeland," he says. "Here, we have found peace and security, so it would be natural for us to be eager to maintain it."
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
03/30/2004 8:59:10 PM ||
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#1
kill him now - avoid the rush and the attorney's fees
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 21:05 Comments ||
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Sheikh Zoud's excuse only scores a 2.5. It is lame. Zoud's company that he keeps tells who he really is. Sorry things were hot for him in Lebanon. Maybe he should go back there and patch things up with a one-way involuntary ticket.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/30/2004 21:27 Comments ||
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#3
His 'excuse' has a wee bit of merit.
/sarcasm off
Why are divorces so expensive? They're worth every penny!
#4
Raj - well I will agree it involved every penny. Worth it? Dunno, 20+ years later I'm still wondering about that. It would've been much cheaper to arrange, uh, um, a vase of flowers. Yeah, that's what I wanted to say. Uh huh. Never mind. Nothing to see here... move along.
#6
Raj - heh, that be right. And to everyone else out there:
Don't let the romantics and the twinkies who haven't been there fool you: all of the good lessons, the valuable lessons, are as expensive as hell.
Twain said: "In this world the real penalty, the sharp one, the lasting one, never falls otherwise than on the wrong person."
#8
This thread keeps generating Google Ad for Islamic book sites. Clickety-clickety-clickety-click!!! We'll try to see if we can improve upon that $6.00 total Fred mentioned yesterday. C'mon folks, light 'em up!
Australian computer experts are helping Indonesian police open protected files on a laptop belonging to a suspected Islamic bomb-maker. "We have invited experts from Australia to work along with our experts," said national police spokesman Sunarko Danu Ardanto. Mr Ardanto says the Australian computer experts arrived in Indonesia yesterday. They have started opening files in the computer allegedly belonging to Oman Rahman. Police have declared Rahman and eight others as suspects following an accidental explosion during a bomb-making class at a house in Depok on the southern outskirts of Jakarta earlier this month. Investigators are looking into the group's possible links with a larger terrorist network. The explosive chemicals - potassium chlorate and sulphur - which the group was using are similar to those used in the Bali nightclub attack.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 1:17:50 AM ||
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Following changes in the law on obtaining citizenship in the UK, thousands of people will now be expected to swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen and to vow to obey her and uphold the so-called free and democratic values of Taaghout (false gods). This new law that came into force in January 2004 obliges anyone who wishes to be granted citizenship to swear an oath of allegiance and to pledge that they will uphold the kufr (non-Islamic) law of the land. It is ironic that in a so-called âfreeâ country this new law forces you to either pledge allegiance to the Queen (or to go back to your own country) and at the same time asks you, in contrast, to uphold freedom? Where exactly is the freedom they are referring to?
In fact this embarrassing, humiliating and degrading pledge to obey the Queen clearly shows the hatred, racism and animosity of the British government towards Islaam and Muslims, as Allaah (swt) says in the Qurâaan: âThe Jews and Christians (non-Muslims) will never be pleased with you until you follow their religion (and ideology).â (EMQ Al-Baqarah, 2: 120)
The oath follows a raft of measures introduced (and being introduced) by the Blair regime, post 9/11, intended to single out the Muslim community for their racism and attack. These include:
Amendments to the Terrorism Act 2000 leading to the internment of several Muslims, for over 2 years, such as Abu Qatadah and the proscription of many Islamic organisations involved in Jihaad related activities.
Further amendments to the Terrorism Act, planned by Blunkett, which will introduce military style courts, secret evidence and a lower threshold of guilt for Muslims suspected of Terrorism related offences.
A new advertising campaign, launched by the metropolitan police, called âLife Saversâ where an image of a women wearing a Nikaab is being used to persuade people to make the city a âhostile place for terroristsâ
Therefore, it is inevitable for the disbelievers to plot and plan their corruption and tyranny in an apparent âprestigiousâ manner, calling people to an âhonourable ceremonyâ to declare their worship to the Queen and man-made law. After a speech of welcome, the Superintendent Registrar will invite you to swear the Oath of allegiance or, if you prefer, to speak the affirmation of allegiance:
âI (name) swear by Almighty God that on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors, according to law.â Or to affirm your allegiance by testifying: âI (name) do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors, according to law.â
This oath to obey, worship and submit to the Queen is then followed by the pledge of citizenship:
âI will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms. I will uphold its democratic values. I will observe its laws faithfully and fulfil my duties and obligations as a British citizen.â
There is no doubt that pledging to worship, obey and submit to the Queen and Taaghout (anything worshipped, obeyed, submitted to or followed other than Allaah) is shirk akbar and kufr in Islaam (i.e. an act of apostasy), As Allaah (swt) says in the Qurâaan: âBe aware that Laa ilaaha illallah (none is worthy of worship, obedience and submission other than Allaah).â (EMQ Muhammad, 47: 19)
The one who pledges to worship other than Allaah is not a Muslim, but rather a heretic and apostate (if he/she claims to be Muslim). This pledge shows the desperation and inferiority of the British government, by forcing people to become non-Muslims through declaring their allegiance to the Queen, may Allaahâs curse be upon her.
Oh Muslims! Do not become apostates by swearing to worship the Queen and taking her as ilaah (i.e. a false god) or andaad (a rival to Allaah). She is not worthy of salaam (greetings), let alone to be worshipped and obeyed. Do no become munaafiq (a hypocrite) by testifying something you do not believe in and be aware that your eemaan (sayings and actions) manifest your belief, therefore if you pledge to worship the Queen (a verbal action) it is a manifestation of your inner (what is in your heart i.e. kufr and shirk).
Oh Allaah, bear witness that we have conveyed the message.
#2
Not only should any new citizens have to swear this oath in order to obtain their citizenship, the British should go back to all non-native-born who got citizenship in the last 20 years and require them to swear the oath publicly, too, or revoke their citizenship.
Not that I think it would matter. The Koran tells Muslims it's OK to lie to infidels.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
03/30/2004 18:48 Comments ||
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#3
I am getting very fed up of our Muslim 'guests'.
Once their boomers get through and slaughter 200+ innocents (and they will), things will be very different. Comments like this won't be laughed off anymore, let alone ignored.
And as to the Queen not being worthy of greetings, I would just like to point out that the Armed Forces of this country swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen, not the Government of the day. Think on that - shithead.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
03/30/2004 18:53 Comments ||
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#4
I'm tired of hearing about the Arab "sensibilities". It's a crutch for all their mis-deeds. The request sounds ok to me. Can you imagine though Jesse Jackson okaying that in the USA? The Dems would go ballistic and the marchers would run out of walking shoes in protest. Go UK..Gotta love it.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
03/30/2004 18:56 Comments ||
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#5
Everytime I hear these moose-limbs assume the position of authority on "freedom" it makes me wretch. Their idea of freedom is the ability to kill the khufir at will...with Allahs blessing of course. If you don't like the rules, go back to your cess-pool thugogracy of a country. Nooone cares about your sensibilities.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
03/30/2004 19:09 Comments ||
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#6
Where does it say to worship the Queen? It does say to remain true and faithful but that is not worship. He is saying that Muslims cannot be faithful and true to anyone but Allah?
Second, Islam is not a Race. It is a religion which you can enter into by CHOICE and leave by CHOICE.
And it is not just Muslims who would have to pledge allegiance to the queen by EVERYONE. If I (an american) sought british citizenship I would have to take the same pledge. How is that RACIST (not that Islam is a race) or Hateful.
#7
dumb ass phucks! no asks you to change religions just swear loyalty to your adopted country...do not like it do not come...in the US to obtain a citizenship you also must swear loyalty..kinda of makes sense..unless you have nothing but contempt for your adopted country and in that case your not wanted...
Posted by: Dan ||
03/30/2004 19:20 Comments ||
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#8
Go UK. Phucks like this have no place in your country, or in any other country worthy of the name. I just hope the PC types don't win this one, not that I expect them too, but I'm sure they're already having the vapors...
#9
The Islamists have been pushing and pushing the envelope, just like they have done in Frawnce. Now the gov't of the UK says that you swear allegance to the govt, in this case to the Queen, who represents the govt. In the US we swear to uphold and defend the Constitution.
So now it is choice time:
1. Swear to be part of the country and be responsible, which entitles one to all the rights, privelages, and protections thereto, or
2. Refuse to be part of the country, which entitles one to STFU, GTFO, FOAD, or all three or any combination of the two.
This seems to twist up a few turbans, that is good. Got save the Queen!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/30/2004 20:22 Comments ||
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#10
Ahem, God save the Queen....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/30/2004 21:19 Comments ||
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#11
Statement by Osama bin Laden: "I am residing in Afghanistan. I have taken an oath of allegiance to Taleban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar ...
==========
Bin Laden is the undisputed leader, called âemirâ or âprinceâ by his followers, who must take a sworn oath to him, violation of which is punishable by death.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
03/30/2004 21:29 Comments ||
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#12
CrazyFool:
He is saying that Muslims cannot be faithful and true to anyone but Allah?
Yes, that's what he's saying. The Islamists have been saying their allegiance is to the ummah and to the coming caliph, not to any government made up only of men.
That other Muslims do little to nothing to contradict them is telling, IMHO.
It is a religion which you can enter into by CHOICE and leave by CHOICE.
No, Islam is a religion you can enter by choice, but for which your life is forfeit if you try to leave.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/30/2004 21:53 Comments ||
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Does it matter, the Moslems can all move to one country in the EU, dominate it politically, become citizens, then move whereever they want.
An apparent attempt to blow up a McDonaldâs drive-in restaurant in northern Italy was foiled on Sunday but the suspected terrorist died when his car exploded with him strapped inside.
Cue the Spike Jones version of "My Old Flame"...
Witnesses said a man, later identified as Moustafa Chaouki, a native of Casablanca, drove his Fiat Tempra into the queue of cars waiting at the restaurant in Brescia, 100km east of Milan, at 10 pm. His car contained four cylinders of kitchen gas, each with a capacity of more than 70 litres. Police believe he opened the taps of the cylinders, filling the car with gas. Witnesses said he then suddenly opened the driverâs door, and the car detonated into a fireball.
Sounds like a pretty inept member of the al-Kaboomi clan...
A woman in the car directly behind the Fiat, told the daily, Corriere della Sera: "I had just said to my boyfriend, âDonât you smell something strange?â Then there was the blast. That man didnât even try to get out of the car. He stayed there, immobile in his seat, with one leg out of the door." About 20 customers were inside the restaurant, and a firefighter told Corriere: "We arrived within three minutes, and it was fortunate that we did because we succeeded in containing the explosion, chilling some of the gas cylinders inside the car." Otherwise, the unnamed officer added, the cylinders could have exploded, firing lethal metal fragments through the restaurant windows and possibly igniting other cylinders of carbon dioxide belonging to the restaurant which were close to the burning car.
Well, maybe heating them up so they'd explode. Takes a lot of matches to get CO2 to ignite.
Moustafa Chaouki was born in Casablanca, Morocco, in 1968 and was a resident of Brescia. Yesterday the assistant prosecutor of the city, Roberta di Martino, who is also the cityâs anti-terrorism boss, would only say of the incident: "It was not an accidental occurrence."
"But it was larger than my grandmother's cat."
Last year, a Palestinian with a Kuwaiti passport, Al Khatib Muhammad, died in his car after it exploded close to a synagogue in the town of Modena, 160 kms south-east of Brescia. The crime is still unsolved.
"Legume! I suspect there may be a terrorism angle to this... But I... just... can't... put... my... finger on it."
And prosecutors in Brescia are also investigating an imam linked to the Iraq-based Islamist terror group Ansar-al-Islam, who was arrested one year ago. Mourad Trabelsi, the former imam of a mosque in the town of Cremona, 50km south-west of Brescia, was arrested in April last year, after being under surveillance by the Brescia authorities for three years. Investigators believe he helped raise funds for terrorist activities, recruited would-be terrorists and acted as the intermediary between a cell of Italy-based terrorists and international terrorist groups.
#1
"Last year, a Palestinian with a Kuwaiti passport, Al Khatib Muhammad, died in his car after it exploded close to a synagogue in the town of Modena, 160 kms south-east of Brescia. The crime is still unsolved"
What's the Italian equivalent of Inspector Clouseau and Barney Fife?
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 12:58 Comments ||
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#2
How the hell do you "ignite" "cylinders of carbon dioxide"?
#6
For the CO2 tanks, the firemen were probably worried about them overheating and bursting, not "igniting". Chalk it up to translation problems and the utter ignorance of the press.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/30/2004 14:05 Comments ||
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#7
Damn, I just saw this at Blair's place and hurried over to post it. I was going to title it "Burger Boom Bungle in Brescia". Seafarious, you have no sole.
WARNING!: Clicking on the Independent's link may get you a faceful of Fisk.
I suppose the lesson here is turn off your engine while getting gas.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/30/2004 14:54 Comments ||
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#10
Has anyone noticed how the Islamofascists have targeted McDonalds in Europe? Guess OBL didn't get the Kabul franchise, and this is his revenge...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/30/2004 16:26 Comments ||
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I'll have one Big Mac, hold the infidel special sauce. One large order of fries, Allah be praised for their excellent flavor. And one giant shake. Ha ha! Allahu Akbar!
That will be 5,75 Euros.
That's what you think, Infidel!
Posted by: Tibor ||
03/30/2004 16:53 Comments ||
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#12
The martyr Moustafa Chaouki will be pleasured by 72 Ronald McDonalds for eternity.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
03/30/2004 18:03 Comments ||
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Do you think there's a lawsuit here somewhere? How about the woman waiting behind the Fiat? She's got a case...
Posted by: Rafael ||
03/30/2004 18:25 Comments ||
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"I had just said to my boyfriend, âDonât you smell something strange?â
#15
Two things here - Angie, I don't know what you do for a living, but you could make big bucks writing headlines for The Sun in the UK! :)
And secondly, why is it that Islamonazis are just so, well, shite at taking the final curtain call? Perhaps this turd was getting a stiffy just thinking of his 72 raisins and lit his cigarette in anticipation of the celestial gang bang?
Brilliant comments by the way! :)
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
03/30/2004 19:15 Comments ||
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" I'll have an order of Jihadi Fingers to go. "
Posted by: Charles ||
03/30/2004 20:18 Comments ||
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I think it's high time for Bore-Ass the troll to display the courage of his own convictions and emulate this heroic jihadi, provided of course that he doesn't leave his own ptomain emporium to do it.
(it's "speech" btw, Bore-Ass, and have the health inspectors shut your place down yet?
If not, it's only because your yokel authorities are enlightened enough to appreciate that you are only poisoning your fellow idiotarians.)
#18
Back on topic (fried jihadi that is), it was Al Independent that raised three kinds of hell last year over the alleged revival of "napalm" by US forces in Iraq. (slightly different chemical, same satisfying effect).
The Fiskites apparently have no problem with jihadis being roasted alive when the jihadis are doing it to themselves. Neither do I, come to think of it, as long as they limit the crispy critter conversion to themselves.
Britain is set to block new European Union civil liberties laws unless they are changed to help the fight against terrorism. The row is over laws which would let immigration authorities and governments have access to potentially vital air passenger records - but only for 24 hours. Home Office minister Caroline Flint, standing in for Home Secretary David Blunkett, will tell the meeting that the time limit was hopeless for security agencies pursuing information in the event of a terrorist atrocity. Equally unacceptable to the UK is a provision restricting access to airline information only to immigration officials - and not to the police. The restrictions are designed to safeguard civil liberties. But the UK says that, in the wake of the need to respond to the terrorist threat, the proposals will make a mockery of counter-terrorism pledges.
During negotiations so far UK officials have added a clause to the provisions stating that member states should be allowed to apply their own national arrangements for data access, as long as they do not conflict with EU data protection rules. That would mean the UK Data Protection Act could apply - allowing the holding of information where necessary for much longer and also making sure it could be passed to the police and not just used by immigration services. But all other member states oppose the idea and want the UK to remove the clause: "We are isolated," explained one official. But the Government will make clear that it will simply block all agreement - the rules require unanimous approval - unless there is much more flexibility to wage the fight against terrorism.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
03/30/2004 6:36:49 AM ||
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#1
Gee, maybe they should WRITE INTO THE CONSTITUTION that the cops get only 4 coffee breaks per watch, just to be sure, y'know?...
#3
Aris, it's not just you. Seems Ananova's decided to go crap recently, keeping no stories in archive and having just the ten-or-whatever most recent stories online. I'm an Orange customer, and I haven't figured out whether or not I personally can get a better service from them. I guess people will just stop using their services if it stays as bad as this...
#4
Don't let the privacy lobby win this one. This lobby, which is extensive in the U.S., doesn't believe in privacy, a reasonable right to protection from unwanted intrusion. What they want is invisibility: that there should be NO government capability to monitor suspicious behavior. This lobby, led by the ACLU in the US and many so-called privacy rights groups have already cost us 3,000 lives thanks to their lobbying for the 1995 law that forbid the FBI and CIA from sharing info. The are the biggest opponents of the PATRIOT Act, which they apparently believe has destroyed civil liberties (of course they can't show any instances where it's done any such thing...)
You can always tell someone in this lobby. They're always seeing "potential" violations of "privacy," no matter how infinestimal the risk or absurd the possibility. The government is always this far from being a "Nazi" regime with unlimited power.
Beware of these types. They cloak themselves in what sound like high moral values, but what they really want is complete anonymity for everyone. Complete anonymity to do whatever the hell they want, no matter what the cost to the rest of us...
Canadaâs "smother terrorism with kindness" approach to combatting militancy has made the country a haven for up-and-coming radicals, says the author of a new book. Oh! My GOD!!
From British Columbiaâs Talwinder Singh Parmar, believed to be behind the 1985 Air India bombing, to Ahmed Khadr, an Egyptian Canadian from Toronto who helped to finance 9/11 -- Stewart Bellâs Cold Terror: How Canada Nurtures and Exports Terrorism Around the World, chronicles the lives of international terrorists who have called Canada home and the political climate that has allowed them to do so. Well, at least someoneâs noticing
"A lot of these stories have been out there in bits and pieces before but when you sit down and read them chronologically and you stack up all the things one on top of the other, you really do shake your head and you wonder how this has gone on," Bell told the Sun. In his book, Bell alleges politicians have, knowingly or not, caroused with terror groups under the guise of politicking and how media coverage portraying the poor Canadian wives of suspected terrorists who swear their husbands are innocent is often misleading. Politicians, he said, are often afraid to speak out against terror organizations for fear of being perceived as anti-immigrant, intolerant or racist. We must be to-ler-ant to all groups...Multiculturalism at itâs finest
Furthermore, he said Canadaâs immigration system makes it impossible to effectively deal with immigrants and the new anti-terrorism law, while long overdue, fails to include several important terror groups. Like Hamas, Hezbollah, etc
Posted by: steve d. ||
03/30/2004 9:53:01 AM ||
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A handful of Ottawa Muslims were being questioned last night in what authorities described as an international terror probe that saw heavily-armed Mounties storm the home of one of the city's most prominent Muslims. At 1:30 p.m. yesterday, RCMP tactical units, acting on security intelligence briefs, fanned out across the city, arresting one young Muslim man and questioning several others. The raids followed a month-long RCMP surveillance operation targeting the Orleans home of Mahboob A. Khawaja, who is presently teaching at a university in Saudi Arabia.
Tap, tap...nope.
Reached there last night, Mr. Khawaja said he was "extremely disturbed" by the raid.
"Shit! Now I have to stay here in Saudi."
"They didn't look in my underwear drawer, did they? I have some... ummm... important personal papers in there!"
The Mounties forced their way into his home, but their target was nowhere to be found. Instead, they found two of Mr. Khawaja's adult children. His wife, Azra, had gone out for some afternoon shopping and was picked up by police at a shopping centre. Later in the day, RCMP arrested a Muslim man linked to the house.
Always seems to be a spare muslim guy in the guest bedroom.
According to his friends, one of Mr. Khawaja's four sons was taken away yesterday by RCMP as he walked the hallways of the University of Ottawa, school books in hand. Mohsan Khawaja has not been charged with any crime and the RCMP would not say why they wanted to talk with the economics student. Qamar Masood, president of the Canada-Pakistan Association of the National Capital Region, arrived at the home last night. He says he later spoke with Mr. Khawaja's wife. "She said they think that they were making bombs or something of that nature. But she said, of course, that's impossible."
"Lies, all lies!"
"Tut tut! Certainly not!"
Mr. Khawaja also said the police alleged that his children had been making bombs. So far, only one suspect has been arrested. He has yet to be named, let alone charged, although police expect to make a "major announcement" later this week.
Oh goody, now where's my popcorn maker.
Yesterday's raid has rattled Ottawa's tight-knit Muslim community, with many expressing fears of more arrests. Others hope that police suspicions are a misunderstanding. Mr. Khan said one of the Khawaja sons, Momin, worked for the federal government as a computer engineer. Mr. Khawaja has five children, four sons: Mohsan, Tanzeel, Momin and Qasim, and one daughter, Sabeen. His children were born and raised in Canada, while Mr. Khawaja teaches abroad. The family is respected within the Muslim community, and praised for their intelligence and volunteer work.
"They're such good people"
Mr. Khawaja, an academic who has authored several publications on conflict resolution, including a book, Muslims and the West: Quest for Change and Conflict Resolution, which was published in 2000. In the book, Mr. Khawaja argues for a better understanding of fundamentalism, noting that it is often laden with "negative connotations."
Might have something to do with killing people and blowing stuff up.
He wrote this about the invasion of Iraq: "American and specially-hired Brits -- Tony Blair's war protagonists -- do believe that it was a real war fought against Saddam Hussein (their former faithful client), and it ended in American victory and success even though the WMD hoax was a stage drama, nothing other than a planned deception and treachery to the collective conscience of humanity that demonstrated strong opposition against the American planned war."
Wow, he could be writing for DPRK, or the NYT.
Into the night, the RCMP could be seen scouring the house for clues. The house was cordoned off with police tape and is being treated as a crime scene.
Canadian cops are very, very good at this.
The RCMP approached neighbours about a month ago, asking for permission to use their property to stage around-the-clock surveillance from unmarked cars, parked in a driveway three doors down.
Interesting
Posted by: Steve ||
03/30/2004 11:52:25 AM ||
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Yesterday's raid has rattled Ottawa's tight-knit Muslim community, with many expressing fears of more arrests.
Why? Are there more terrorists in their midst?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/30/2004 12:38 Comments ||
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One hopes that the Canadians actually take the trouble to hold these people as opposed to releasing them on their own "recognizance" to go underground.
WASHINGTON â The White House agreed Tuesday to let National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice publicly rip Charke to shreads testify under oath before the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States.
In return, the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks on the United States unanimously agreed to a Bush administration request that Riceâs testimony will not set a precedent that would require future White House aides to publicly testify.
In a letter to the commission sent Tuesday by White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales, the White House asserted that any testimony by Rice "can occur only with recognition that the events of September 11, 2001 present the most extraordinary and unique circumstances.
"Nevertheless, the president recognizes the truly unique and extraordinary circumstances underlying the commissionâs responsibility to prepare a detailed report on the facts and circumstances of the horrific attacks on September 11, 2001," Gonzales wrote.
The decision comes after a tumultuous week in Washington, during which the White House was pressured by Democrats and Republicans alike to allow Rice to testify publicly and under oath.
Several commission members pointedly mentioned her absence at last weekâs hearings â particularly when they questioned Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. They also kept failing to mention that she did grant them a private interview...
The White Houseâs letter also offered to let President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney to meet jointly with the entire commission, though they would not be under oath. Bush and Cheney, as well as former President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore, previously agreed to meet with the commission.
Rice has already appeared for four hours in front of the commission to answer questions in private â when she wasnât under oath â about what the administration had been doing about terror threats prior to Sept. 11.
Initially Rice rejected testifying in public, arguing that she was prevented by executive privilege from revealing confidential conversations. She later clarified that she wanted to testify, but couldnât because of the presidentâs concerns that her testimony would violate the separation of powers.
"From a political standpoint, itâs probably a wise move," said former Republican National Committee Chairman Frank Fahrenkopf (search) of Riceâs now-forthcoming testimony. He said that the "fact of 9/11, maybe perhaps an equal of Pearl Harbor" gave the public and the commission the need "for closure," which could be achieved by hearing from all the officials who worked on counterterrorism prior to the tragedy. No, 9/11 wasnât like Pearl Harbor. Pearl was a military target while the twin towers were a civilian target. There is a big difference.
Bush aides say the president decided over the weekend to find a way for the national security adviser to go before the commission. The White House wants to rip to shreads respond to claims by former Bush and Clinton counterterrorism coordinator Richard Clarke that the current administration didnât treat the Al Qaeda threat urgently enough.
The Democrats, meanwhile, said the White House decision was a good start, but didnât address all their concerns.
"The Bush administration has finally come to its senses on what should have been a simple issue by reversing its previous refusal to allow the national security adviser to testify in public under oath," said House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi. "The Bush administration needs to understand that the independent 9/11 commission seeks truth, not blame." Then her lips fell off.....
Pelosi said full disclosure was in order.
"Full and open cooperation from the Bush administration is needed to put to rest the many questions surrounding the security failures before Sept. 11," she said. "The families of Sept. 11 deserve no less."
In addition to possibly dispelling some of the characterizations made by Clarke â who told the commission last week and wrote in a recently published book that the current White House hadnât treated the threat from Al Qaeda (search) with enough urgency â Riceâs appearance is likely to blunt attacks from other quarters.
Democratic senators on Tuesday had planned on offering a resolution in the form of an amendment to the welfare reauthorization bill that would have required Rice to testify in public and under oath. Sneaky bastards arenât they?
The resolution, offered by Sens. Charles Schumer of New York and Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts on behalf of Sen. Kerry no doubt, was going to demand that Rice testify in order to "make a full accounting of the preparedness of the United States before, and the response of the United States to, the September 11, 2001, attacks."
"I would remind the president what all Americans know: The truth will set you free," Schumer said in a statement after the White Houseâs decision became public. "The administrationâs reversal shows that it was using executive privilege as an excuse to keep Dr. Rice from testifying. But the dedication and bullâs eye integrity of the commission has succeeded and now hopefully we will be a lot closer to the truth."
#1
"The Bush administration has finally come to its senses on what should have been a simple issue by reversing its previous refusal to allow the national security adviser to testify in public under oath," said House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi.
"The Bush administration needs to understand that the independent 9/11 commission seeks truth, not blame."
"Full and open cooperation from the Bush administration is needed to put to rest the many questions surrounding the security failures before Sept. 11," she said. "The families of Sept. 11 deserve no less."
"The administrationâs reversal shows that it was using executive privilege as an excuse to keep Dr. Rice from testifying. But the dedication and bullâs eye integrity of the commission has succeeded and now hopefully we will be a lot closer to the truth."
See! This is the kind of crap they will float 24/7 on Gore's new tv network. ARRRRGH!!! At least this one will backfire. It should be obvious to everyone that the Dems want to hang 911 on Bush somehow, as ridiculous as that is, but I know people can't see through it. This will get a lot of play from the Kerry camp media outlets.
Jayna and Laurie will deserve Medals of Freedom for this and Bubbaâs legacy will be Mudd and hopefully Evitaâs too! Via LGF:
... One of the more provocative lines of inquiry over the past decade has been whether the plot included Middle Eastern terrorists. In the hours immediately after the blast, law enforcement publicly focused on that possibility. But the arrest of McVeigh, within hours of the bombing, and Nichols, who turned himself in two days later, wiped that theory from the national consciousness. Over the years, the possibility of a larger conspiracy has piqued the interest of only a handful of people with the power to pursue the questions, including a member or two of Congress. WHAT ABOUT THE TAPE, ARLEN?????????????
Suspicion that the bombing involves a Middle Eastern connection begins with an all-points bulletin issued by the FBI three hours after the explosion for a truck like one stolen from the blue-collar Oklahoman. It was a brown Chevy pickup, with tinted windows, seen speeding away from the area, with two Middle Easternâlooking men inside. Later that day, the FBI canceled the alert, and has never said why. When Timothy McVeigh, a disillusioned Gulf War vet, was arrested and charged on April 21, questions about that mysterious brown truck and its Arab-looking occupants faded away.
One of the first journalists to air reports on the aborted FBI alert was Jayna Davis of KFOR-TV in Oklahoma City. Her TV stories generated confidential phone tips about a group of local Iraqis, including one who seemed to match an FBI profile sketch of John Doe No. 2.
Davis collected interviews, witness statements and stacks of documents suggesting that the conspiracy went beyond McVeigh and Nichols. She chronicles her investigation and the FBIâs probe in her book, The Third Terrorist, due out in mid-April.
SNIP
A resident of the complex where the pickup was dumped, speaking confidentially, says he saw the truck parked at the complex a week after the bombing. His wife got a close look at the driver, on April 25. He says its âugly yellow colorâ caught his eye. Ellis, he adds, came to the complex looking for witnesses. âHe showed me a picture of the pickup and asked if heâd seen it. I told him yes,â says this resident. âEllis then told me, âRemember that APB the day of the bombing, with two Middle Easternâlooking men in it? Well, this is the truck.ââ
His wife told Ellis she remembered the driver because he glared at her. She said he was âclean-shaven, with an olive complexion, dark wavy hair, broad shoulders, 28 to 34 years old, and of Middle Eastern descent.â
The agent re-interviewed them a few days later. âAgain,â according to the resident, âhe said, âThis is the brown pickup from the APB. It had no license plate, no VIN numbers, and was painted yellow.â He also told us it was fingerprinted by the FBI.â His wife put together a crude drawing of the driver that Ellis picked up. The agent then refused to take their phone calls. âI never heard from him again,â says the husband.
Read the rest
Posted by: Anonymous2u ||
03/30/2004 2:01:50 AM ||
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I've always questioned why McVeigh was executed so quickly, almost as if to put the story to death with him. I don't recall any others being convicted, sentenced, appealed, denied, etc. as fast as his was...not complaining, just thought it unusual. How many other fed convictions will happen as fast? DC snipers? bet not.....
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 16:02 Comments ||
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By Paul Martin, Washington Times. EFL A bit behind the curve, are we? I guess it adds detail to last year's story... Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, al Qaedaâs purported operations chief, has told U.S. interrogators that the group had been planning attacks on the Library Tower in Los Angeles and the Sears Tower in Chicago on the heels of the September 11, 2001, terror strikes. Those plans were aborted mainly because of the decisive U.S. response to the New York and Washington attacks, which disrupted the terrorist organizationâs plans so thoroughly that it could not proceed, according to transcripts of his conversations with interrogators. . . . "The original plan was for a two-pronged attack with five targets on the East Coast of America and five on the West Coast," he told interrogators, according to the transcript. "We talked about hitting California as it was Americaâs richest state, and [al Qaeda leader Osama] bin Laden had talked about economic targets." He is reported to have said that bin Laden, who like Mohammed had studied engineering, vetoed simultaneous coast-to-coast attacks, arguing that "it would be too difficult to synchronize." Mohammed then decided to conduct two waves of attacks, hitting the East Coast first and following up with a second series of attacks. "Osama had said the second wave should focus on the West Coast," he reportedly said.
I was expecting a second, and maybe a third wave of attacks. Pretty poor generaling, if you ask me.
But the terrorists seem to have been surprised by the strength of the American reaction to the September 11 attacks. "Afterwards, we never got time to catch our breath, we were immediately on the run," Mohammed is quoted as saying.
Posted by: Mike ||
03/30/2004 9:18:44 AM ||
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"Afterwards, we never got time to catch our breath, we were immediately on the run," Mohammed is quoted as saying.
I hope he wasn't just trying to blow smoke up his questioner's arse.
#2
Kudos to Bush & co. if this is true. If we can believe this guy, they didn't expect the bashing they got. Now let's finish the job!
Posted by: The Doctor ||
03/30/2004 11:25 Comments ||
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Why not believe him? What reason would he have to lie? Clearly, the national reaction after 9/ll, INCLUDING the roundups that immediately followed and the war on the Taliban screwed them up royally. And continues to mess them up.
Bravo to President Bush. An aggressive response, taking the war directly to the enemy at home and abroad stopped who knows how many more murders? Can you just imagine what air attacks on downtown LA, SF, Seattle, Chicago and Denver would have done?
Bush's handling of 9/11 is why he is going to destroy Kerry and his appeasing Democratic pals in November. When the time is nigh, none of this BS from Clarke and the other midgets is going to mean jack. Kerry is the guy running for president and he's a liberal who is weak on terrorism...like most of the rest of his party.
#1
"They shall not grow old,
As we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them,
Nor the years condemn,
At the going down of the sun
And in the morning
We will remember them"
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 8:58 Comments ||
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By Richard Cohen
If there is such a thing as a citizen's arrest, then there ought to be such a thing as a citizen's U.N. resolution. That being the case -- columnists can make anything the case -- I propose a resolution condemning the Palestinian Authority, Hamas and Islamic Jihad for using naive and addled children as suicide bombers. I am waiting for France, Spain, Russia and other European governments to sign it.
More at the link. Wonder if Wa-Po could be induced to use the [crickets chirping] tag?
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/30/2004 12:01:32 AM ||
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Cohen makes sense about 1-column-in-10. This is the 1. Good catch
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 8:05 Comments ||
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Nope, Frank G, sorry, this ain't the one either. The UN should condemn ALL suicide bombing. Cohen didn't see fit to mention using dishonored mothers or hey, even single all grown-up males. Ugh.
Secretary-General Kofi Annan fired one senior U.N. official and demoted another Monday for failing to protect U.N. staff ahead of the Aug. 19 bombing of U.N. headquarters in Baghdad that killed 22 people. Acting on the findings of a scathing report detailing mistakes made by several senior officials, Annan singled out Tun Myat, the U.N. security coordinator, who was asked to resign from the U.N., and did so. The report said Myat and others "appeared to be blinded by the conviction that U.N. personnel and installations would not become a target of attack, despite the clear warnings to the contrary." The secretary-general also chastised his deputy, Louise Frechette, who chaired a steering group on Iraq when the United Nations decided last May that U.N. staff could go back into the country after the U.S.-led war. She submitted her resignation but Annan refused to accept it, U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard said. The investigation into the United Nations' handling of security was a demand by U.N. staff, many of whom were close to victims of the bombing. The U.N. staff union said Annan's reprimands did not go nearly far enough. Both da Silva and Myat had stepped down temporarily late last year while independent experts assessed responsibility for the security lapses, and Myat is expected to keep his pension. "You have 22 people dead and for the most part, the secretary-general lets people keep their jobs or retire with their pensions," said U.N. union representative Guy Candusso. "Considering the gross negligence and the lapses of security, this does not go wide enough or far enough to hold people accountable."
But they're not allowed to steal take stuff from the UN cafeteria anymore.
Annan's harshest move was reserved for two lower-level U.N. administrators at the U.N.'s Baghdad headquarters in the Canal Hotel. The two - Jordan's Paul Aghadjanian and Pa Momodou Sinyan of Gambia - were charged with misconduct and will face discipline before the U.N. personnel management office. According to a statement released by Eckhard, the two never made any effort to heed a request to buy and install blast-resistant protective film for the hotel windows. Officials have said that flying glass caused the vast majority of the injuries. "These two officers displayed profound lack of responsibility and ineptitude in the manner they sought to implement the request for installation of the film," Monday's statement said. "Their combined response to the issue indicates a lethargy that is bordering on gross negligence."
They were incompetent in more ways than just that.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/30/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Typical,hammer the underlings.But the people in charge get a pass.
What crap,those in charge should be hamered the hardest.
#2
A clever PR step. First Kofi draws praise from the useful fools who love the UN (especially the editorial staff of the NYTimes), then enough people in the UN are 'retired' so they can't be interviewed during the oil-for-palaces investigation.
#3
If people weren't dead, this would almost be funny. They were so arrogant that they believed they were immune from attacks. These turds attack exactly those whom they believe are weak. The UN was attacked - they left. Exactly the point of terrorism. What dumbasses.
A suspected Muslim extremist told police interrogators he planted explosives in a television set on a ferry that caught fire last month, killing more than 100 people, a security official said Tuesday. President Arroyo earlier announced the arrest of Redendo Cain Dellosa, saying the Abu Sayyaf group member confessed to bombing the SuperFerry 14 on February 27 on Manila Bay. Dellosa was arrested with three other militants allegedly plotting a Madrid-style terror attack in Manila, Mrs. Arroyo said.
These are the four guys they just grabbed.
The al-Qaeda-linked Abu Sayyaf, which authorities believe has been decimated in recent US-backed military assaults in Mindanao, claimed responsibility for the ferry fire. Authorities have been reluctant to take the claim seriously, and no evidence has been found yet to suggest explosives were used. A marine board of inquiry has yet to publish its findings. If proven to be a terror attack, it would be the worst in Philippine history. Mrs. Arroyo said Dellosaâs confession will be part of an ongoing investigation into the incident. She said she was advised by officials not to disclose the arrests prematurely but went ahead anyway.
Elections coming up.
A top security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Dellosa, a Muslim convert, confessed after his recent arrest that âhe was passenger 51â and that he stashed trinitrotoluene (TNT) in a television set that he carried onto the ferry.
Muslim converts get issued explosives along with their copy of the koran.
The Abu Sayyaf earlier identified its âsuicide bomberâ as Arnulfo Alvarado and said he was in bunk 51. Chief Supt. Ismael Rafanan, National Police Intelligence Group chief, said Dellosa claimed he used the name Alvarado to get on the ship, and that two of the other detainees confirmed his account.
So he was a suicide bomber who decided to pass on the 72 virgins for now? Smart move. You can get more than that in a weekend in Manila, if you can handle them. Only they're not virgins.
At a marine board of inquiry hearing earlier this month, a safety supervisor with the shipâs owner, WG&A, testified that about 150 survivors told him the explosion took place in the tourist section, in the general area of bunk 51. The shipâs captain, Ceferino Manzo, testified in the same hearing that the entire tourist section was engulfed in âthick black smoke [that] smelled like gunpowder.â After planting the bomb in the passenger cabin, Dellosa said he escaped.
Well, duh!
Pretty heroic, huh?
The bomb was part of a cache of explosives procured by Abu Sayyaf guerrillas for a terror cell in Manila, the official said. Police investigators fanned out in a number of provinces to verify Dellosaâs background, and discovered he was linked to Abu Sayyaf chieftain Khaddafy Janjalani, the official said, without elaborating.
"I can say no more! And I wish Gloria had kept her trap shut as well."
Officials said earlier that no equipment or chemicals were on board the ferry that could have accidentally exploded. Manzo told the inquiry that the explosion couldnât have come from vehicles aboard, and it wasnât from an electrical or air-conditioning malfunction.
I guess Redendo is telling the truth. So kill him.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/30/2004 2:19:05 PM ||
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Some key organisers of the Bali bombings are still at large and capable of pulling off more terror attacks, says an analyst credited with unravelling the deadly Jemaah Islamiyah network. Sidney Jones, Indonesian project director for the International Crisis Group, is in Wellington briefing key Government officials. She said there was a core group of as many as 10 people still out there. Most of the 30 involved in the Bali bombing had been caught but three master technicians were still at large, including Jemaah Islamiyah's head of military operations, Zulkirnaen.
They still had the potential to strike, though their ability to mount other major attacks was restricted. With phone systems under surveillance, communications were much more difficult and their ability to co-ordinate and plan was hampered by the fact key people were on the run. Ms Jones said Jemaah Islamiyah was also split between those who wanted to follow Osama bin Laden's call to attack the West and those who wanted to follow a longer term strategy of establishing an Islamic state in Indonesia. Even the Bali and Marriott Hotel bombings were not popular with a large part of the network.
She praised the Indonesian police â "For going after terrorist suspects, ferreting them out, arresting them and trying them in relatively speedy and open trials, Indonesia gets far higher marks than the US with all its suspects in Guantanamo Bay." Ms Jones said rooting out corruption was vital in the fight against terrorism. "If you want to put together a comprehensive counter-terrorism strategy you need to look beyond locking up the terrorists and move to strengthening the broader democratic institutions in the country. Corruption is far more important in Indonesia than people realise because as long as you can buy travel documents, identity cards, explosives and buy off policemen and bank managers the whole operation of terrorism is facilitated." Indonesia needed a leader who made fighting corruption a top national priority but unfortunately none of the political leaders had shown the slightest interest in curbing it.
Ms Jones said her role in identifying key Jemaah Islamiyah figures, including Hambali and Abu Bakar Bashir, went back to the mid-1980s when she was working for Amnesty International. "Bashir was a prisoner that Amnesty was thinking of taking up as a prisoner of conscience." Amnesty did a lot of work on people close to the Jemaah Islamiyah network but people like Bashir were not taken up because of their violence.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 1:32:15 AM ||
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[Troll droppings deleted]
Posted by: Smith TROLL ||
03/30/2004 7:38 Comments ||
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Are you sure she is not Sydney James?
The whole of what she says, is a joke.
"says an analyst credited with unravelling the deadly Jemaah Islamiyah network. "
Yeah, pull the other one.
Philippine security forces have arrested four suspected militants and seized a large amount of explosives, foiling a plan to bomb civilian targets in the capital Manila, President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo said on Tuesday. "We have pre-empted a Madrid-level attack on the metropolis by capturing an explosive cache of 80 pounds (36 kg) of TNT which was intended to be used for bombing malls and trains in Metro Manila," she said on national television.
The Filippino elections are on May 10 ...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 1:16:05 AM ||
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This is one to keep an eye on. I wonder if the London area bombs-to-be were connected?
More than 100,000 students in Iran will be taking their final university exams in the next few weeks. Bright Iranian youth are deserting in their thousands But while they may be looking forward to finishing their studies, what comes afterwards is a different matter altogether. A population boom in the 1980s means the country is now overwhelmingly young, with around 70% under the age of 30. Faced with poor job prospects and restrictive social conditions, thousands are leaving every year, creating alarm among the countryâs leaders. ....
Dr Hassan Hossein, a lecturer in sociology at Tehran University, said: "When someone goes to university, it means they have entered an intellectual environment; they read more, they notice things more. "Thereâs a direct correlation between how closed a society is and the likelihood of flight from that society."
English-language schools have mushroomed all over the country in the past few years. Qeshm language school in central Tehran opened just under a year ago with 80 students. Now they have more than 500 on their books. In fact so huge is the demand
for places, they have had to open two other schools, with two more on the way. Most of the classes are for students preparing for an English-language exam, known as IELTS, compulsory for study overseas. Last year the number of applications in Iran rose by 84%.
Economist Pooya Alaidini says Iran is suffering from the loss of so much talent. "The brain drain is a problem for the country because we are losing highly educated people and these people... could be our entrepreneurs who create jobs for the next generation." ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
03/30/2004 8:47:09 PM ||
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To concerned university professors:
Dial-A-Turban and register your concern, then run like hell!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/30/2004 20:55 Comments ||
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After a bombing killed 19 U.S. airmen at a barracks in Saudi Arabia in 1996, the Clinton administration struck back by unmasking Iranian intelligence officers around the world, significantly disrupting Iranian-backed terrorism, according to a high-level U.S. official and a former top official who was serving at the time of the operation. Undisclosed until now, Operation Sapphire took place in 1997. Though the bombers who struck the Khobar Towers barracks were mostly Saudis, U.S. investigators quickly determined that Iranian intelligence officials had trained and organized the plotters.
I believe that operation was carried out by the Saudi branch of Hezbollah...
The former U.S. official said Iran was intimidated enough by the U.S. counterspy operation that it stopped targeting Americans after the bombing.
At which point nothing further needed done?
The first public hint of the U.S. operation came last week, when Richard Clarke, White House counterterrorism chief for three administrations, told a bipartisan commission investigating the 9/11 attacks that the Clinton administration responded "against Iranian terrorism ... at Khobar Towers with a covert action." Asked about Clarke's comments, the two other officials spoke about the operation on condition they not be named. Both had knowledge of the operation when it occurred, and both are motivated to speak now at least in part to defend the Clinton administration's anti-terrorism credentials. Iran's top official in the United States dismissed questions about the operation. "Iran has never been involved in any terrorism, including terrorism against the United States," said Mohammad Javad Zarif, Iran's ambassador to the United Nations.
... at which point his lips fell off.
The former high-level U.S. official said Operation Sapphire led to the identification of scores of Iranian intelligence officers and the expulsion of some from foreign capitals. "We outed them," he said. "The CIA, working with others, identified every known Iranian intelligence operative and made it known that they were known. It resulted in no further manifestation of Iranian terrorism directed against the United States."
That's it? How many did we kill? Did we bump off a minimum of one for every dead or injured American? How about the innocent bystanders? Were certain areas of the world briefly ankle-deep in blood? Surely you're not saying that all we did was tell on them?
Some Iran analysts noticed that Iran-backed groups ended attacks against U.S. targets. "We don't know why the terrorism stopped," said Judith Yaphe, an Iran expert at the National Defense University and former CIA analyst who said left the agency in 1995, before Operation Sapphire. "The general assumption was" that the reason was the 1997 election of an Iranian reformer, Mohammad Khatami, as president, Yaphe said. Khatami ran on a platform of improving Iran's relations with the outside world.
That's worked well...
The U.S. officials who talked about the operation declined to discuss details. But there are various ways to "out" intelligence officers from rival services: circulating rumors at dinners and cocktail parties; allowing comments about the officers to be overheard on phones known to be bugged; planting stories in newspapers. CIA officers often know who their counterparts are in foreign embassies. It is more difficult to spot those without official cover. Identifying intelligence officers inhibits their ability to function because they know they are being watched.
Booming their cars inhibits their ability to function a lot more effectively. Potting them at 1500 yards with a sniper rifle works, too.
This kind of identification also carries an implicit threat that officers could be expelled or perhaps, depending on who learns their identity, even killed. Besides Operation Sapphire, there were other factors in Iran's end to support for terrorism not related to the Arab-Israeli dispute. A non-Arab Shiite Muslim nation, Iran wanted to patch up relations with Saudi Arabia and other wealthy Sunni Muslim Gulf states. In return, it agreed to stop fomenting unrest among Shiite minorities in those countries. Iran had also been embarrassed by a case involving the 1992 killing of four Iranian Kurd dissidents in a Berlin restaurant. In April 1997, a German court that had convicted four men for the killings stated that the murders were approved at "highest state levels" in Iran. Germany expelled several Iranian spies after the verdict.
But there weren't any bullet holes in them when they left. And the Kurdish guys were still dead.
Operation Sapphire didn't end Iran's connection to terrorism. Iran has continued to support anti-Israeli militants and has refused to extradite members of the al-Qaeda terrorist network who fled to Iran after the U.S. ouster of the Taliban in Afghanistan. But Iran's government is not known to have targeted Americans since 1996. Early on, U.S. officials suspected Iran of organizing the Khobar Towers plot by members of an Iranian-trained group called Saudi Hezbollah. But the Clinton administration had difficulty proving the charge because almost all the suspects were in Saudi hands. Only in 1999 did the Saudis allow FBI officers to observe interrogations and suggest questions.
In a reasonable world, which is probably many years behind us, we'd have sent hard boys to hunt down and kill the guys behind the guys who were arrested. And I happen to know that U.S. intel is fully capable of determining who they were.
In June 2001, nearly five years after the bombing, a federal grand jury indicted 13 Saudis and a Lebanese for planting an explosives-laden fuel-tanker truck outside the barracks. In announcing the indictment, Attorney General John Ashcroft said that "elements of the Iranian government inspired, supported and supervised" the attack. Of those indicted, 10 were in Saudi custody, and the others were at large, possibly in Iran. No public trial has ever been held.
I do hope there has been a series of unexplained explosions since then. If not, somebody should think about it seriously.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 1:22:56 AM ||
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Let me get this straight:a foreign government plans,organizes and carries out an attack on US armed forces and the Clinton response is to whisper the names of that govt.'s spies at cocktail parties.And for this the Clinton people want to be applauded.
Posted by: Stephen ||
03/30/2004 2:55 Comments ||
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#2
Glad to find I'm not the only one thinking such thoughts; I was afraid it was just me being grouchy because of the pain in my joints that's keeping me from sleeping tonight.
"But the Clinton administration had difficulty proving the charge because almost all the suspects were in Saudi hands."
Another typically limp-wristed response from the Clinton administration encouraging Islamic terrorists: go ahead and bomb American targets, it'll be fun watching them run around in circles trying to "prove" to themselves you did it.
And Kerry has already announced, as a campaign pledge, that he'd bring us back to the Clinton approach to terrorism.
God help us.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
03/30/2004 3:21 Comments ||
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#3
Hmph. I actually like the concept of outing your enemy's spies, but for sure it didn't do much good here ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
03/30/2004 12:54 Comments ||
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#4
I would've preferred they identified them as spies when ID'ing the corpses
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 14:52 Comments ||
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#5
So they exposed the grunts and let the masters keep plotting?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/30/2004 16:25 Comments ||
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Stupid, stupid, stupid. We "out" the ones we know, so they'll be replaced with ones we don't know. And Clinton is supposed to be so damned "brilliant". What a cluster-f***. Someone give this idiot a dull razorblade, so he can cut his wrists.
John Kerry needs to be nailed to a barn door in Oklahoma. Next to a trailer park. Maybe he'll be carried off to some place else, where he can do no harm. Unfortunately, there are 10,000 other dummycrats waiting in the wings, equally skerry, to take his place. God help us, we're surrounded by enemies, within and without!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/30/2004 17:07 Comments ||
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#7
You Feeper Bastards! There's nothing worse than being outed in a decent country. Not that you would understand that of course. Lucky for you I am nonpartisan.
Posted by: Joe Wilson ||
03/30/2004 18:54 Comments ||
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#8
How very "European" of the Clinton administration.
Ob pop culture ref: Sean Connery's soliloquy on how to deal with Capone in "The Untouchables".
Posted by: A Jackson ||
03/30/2004 20:18 Comments ||
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EFL Sky News has reported that a cell of Islamic terrorists has been rolled up in Britain. They were planning on detonating an ammonium nitrate bomb. Meanwhile, Philippine authorities say they have just broken up a "Madrid-level" attack. An Abu Sayaf cell, including a person suspected of beheading American hostage Guillermo Sobero, is now in custody. Reuters has reported that Uzbek authorities have raided an Islamic hideout in Tashkent which may have been related to recent attacks, killing 5 and perhaps 7 more.
Although they may have killed 19 people, in the sad arithmetic of war the loss of possibly 12 trained terrorists is an unsustainable exchange rate for the Jihadis. It also suggests that Al Qaeda has lost its organic capability to strike and must now rely on affiliates. The quality of the new affiliated Holy Warriors is markedly lower than the cadre led by Mohammed Atta. Here too, the analogy with the kamikazes may be apt. By 1945, the superlative aces of the Kido Butai had all been killed or crippled. Forced by logistical strangulation to cut back on training, the bogeys over Okinawa were largely piloted by novices who could only fly straight and level. The Islamist losses in both Britain and the Philippines are likely to be felt keenly by the Jihadis. The British appear to have rolled up a widely deployed network of sleepers; prized assets. The Philippines for its part took down a cell which contained core members of the Abu Sayaf, including the sadistic man who killed Guillermo Sobero, a simple tourist visiting the Islands, as he pleaded for his life. The plan to terrify Americaâs allies into leaving Iraq appears to have failed for now despite the best efforts of the Jihadis. And for this paltry result they have paid in their dwindling seed corn. They must be now asking themselves how the British and Filipinos knew enough to foil their plans. Sleep well Osama. So far, the post-Madrid attacks have been a tactical disaster for the Islamists. Unless they have been extremely unlucky, something is going horribly wrong for their networks.
#1
Indeed, it has, though one small quibble, Catman: using Madrid as a point in time is merely convenience and has no bearing upon the successes.
Wretchard has certainly done us a service by pointing out how lopsided it has been - and how it undoubtedly must be even more costly than even the numbers suggest. Cool!
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 22:28 Comments ||
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#3
There it is!!!! Yea..... now, let's hope we don't get the 35.6 attempts of Accept that I did...
Oh.... and just FYI... know from an expert, Lt. Col Steve Russell had dinner "out" in Killeen, TX... home of Ft Hood an the 4th ID... He really is home.....
#4
Amen, and thanks to God Almighty for answered prayers, and now, onward to victory against the truly god-less, whether liberal, tranzi, and Gee!hoddi! Here's to your demise, you miserable Soddies!
Posted by: Comment Top ||
03/30/2004 22:58 Comments ||
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#8
Sherry - I sorta knew it had to be BBQ or TexMex! Of course, with such a big Fort so closeby, you prolly got a little of everything available. Have you told him he's an honorary member of the Army of Steve, yet? He only THINKS he reports to Dubya, heh!
#9
Well -- I did do some homework... and did send an email about his fan club here at Rantburg. The only thing I asked in return, was that I be notified when the email was sent!
I got confirmation, the email had been sent to him.... nothing since...... at least, if he read the email, he now knows of his Army of Steve!
and maybe he did have TexMex..... had to be one or the other, beef (in some form) or TexMex... yea, we stop off from the airport for a meal, before we even get home.....
This website is written by some incoherent, apparently insane person. The items was posted on March 29. The English translation is wretched, and I assume the Arabic original is wretched too. The bracketed annotations are mine.
... the next event came in the vision: the American fleet in the Persian Gulf and led by the aircraft carrier, Kitty Hawk, will attack [be attacked] in [along with its] Cruise Missiles the assumption of a nuclear roux [assumed to have nuclear warheads] by a group of people (Ismailâs offspring) who will carry out this work. 11 ships [are] accompanying the aircraft carrier. Its destruction will take place and it will kill as many as 12,600 of the Americans and that that will be on the seventeenth day of one of the next months in this year. ....
The [belief that] brother Zuhair and this vision were informed confirms [is confirmed by] what happened before, from that the hitting with freedom and the determination of the target by the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk. The time has been determined to be the 17th day of a month and now this ship is in the Gulf and has only entered it a few weeks ago!!!
This vision was mentioned to my teacher on 17 January (Friday. 14 Dhal Hijjah), and he specified the date of the attack. My teacher expects that he is right? Tomorrow we will see. But if the leading target remains then the attack was expected and it will be postponed.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
03/30/2004 12:44:46 AM ||
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See what happens when you let these Islamic semetaries have an unlimited supply of processed poppies and ganja??
#2
Say WHAT?? Run that by me one more time...kinda hard to follow. What's the point in communicating, if you can't?
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
03/30/2004 2:23 Comments ||
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You may laugh but large ships at anchor or in confined waters are sitting ducks. All you have to do is ram them with a large enough ship at sufficient speed to sink them.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/30/2004 2:33 Comments ||
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#4
Mike why don't you mail the original arabic text to Dan Darling, maybe he could shed some light on the translation.
#5
On the other hand maybe "brother Zuhair" received a copy of Johnny Carsons' Greatest Tonight Shows and thought Carnac the Magnificant was a role model.
Posted by: Stephen ||
03/30/2004 4:02 Comments ||
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Haha, according to navy.mil, the Kitty Hawk is in the South China Sea and the George Washington is in the Arabian Gulf. The Jihadis need to lay off the opium.
#7
An aircraft carrier rammed by a dinghy? The sky is falling down on my head. Woof woof. Tweet.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 4:04 Comments ||
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#8
How would a vessel large enough to sink an aircraft by ramming it, ever get close enough before being stopped? I thought carriers were protected by a screen of smaller ships whose job was precisely to intercept anything hostile-looking headed the carrier's way?
#9
Simple answer to all this. Ignore it and issue a counter threat: on the 17th day of some month soon Mecca and Medina will be vaporized in a great ball of light. Difference between this threat and the carrier threat? This one could actually happen, the other is never going to happen.
"But if the leading target remains then the attack was expected and it will be postponed."
Posted by: Rafael ||
03/30/2004 7:10 Comments ||
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#11
nuclear roux
What's that? Flour, butter, and a couple of teaspoons of Dave's Insanity Sauce?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/30/2004 9:03 Comments ||
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#12
This vision was mentioned to my teacher
Heh. I wonder when they'll figure out that the djinni are on our side.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/30/2004 9:04 Comments ||
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#13
Does anyone really beleive that any unauthorized ship is gong to get within 5000 yards of the Kitty Hawk? I don't think so Tim.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
03/30/2004 9:59 Comments ||
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#14
"All your Kitty Hawk are belong to us"
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
03/30/2004 10:07 Comments ||
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#15
I read this last night and am convinced these people are not even on the same plane of reality as we are anymore.
Aside to Phil B. - a Cole type attack on Miss Kitty while in port could indeed do impressive damage to her - but without at all depreciating the danger and potential loss of life, most of the damage would be cosmetic. It is not much of an exaggeration to say that it would take a direct hit - within a few hundred yards - to sink a modern American CV, and even then it would not necssarily be a sure thing. Now, I'm thinking this is what the Bizarro Jihadi was raving about - an attack on a moored carrier with a nuke. If that's the case, then indeed all bets are off - but then a Muslim city somewhere will be glassed, and then it's a whole new war.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
03/30/2004 10:08 Comments ||
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#16
...should read "would take a direct hit - within a few hundred yards - with a nuclear weapon..."
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
03/30/2004 10:10 Comments ||
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#17
Mike K - a fully laden bulk ore carrier of say 200,000 tonnes travelling at 10 meters per second has a huge kinetic energy. 2 million kilojoules.
TNT by way of contrast releases 4,500 KJ per kilo. So the ship in my example is equivalent to 500 kilograms of TNT, although unlike TNT the energy in a collision is directed in one very focused direction and in terms of the damage it would do, it is probably more like a 5000 kilos of TNT explosion.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/30/2004 10:53 Comments ||
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#18
In that part of the world an unauthorized ship couldn't get within 200 MILES of the Kitty. Unless somebody sold these schmucks an old electric boat or something. That might make it within the 200 mile ring before being sunk.
#19
Phil-
Completely understood, I was thinking about a dinghy-style attack with a much lower amount of expended energy. Thanks for the clarification.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
03/30/2004 11:16 Comments ||
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#20
You may laugh but large ships at anchor or in confined waters are sitting ducks.
Highly doubtful that a naval vessel in open water would be anchored. Away from port, a stationary target is not what a Navy ship wants to be. Also, the Persian Gulf isn't that small a body of water to actually manage to "confine" a carrier-sized vessel. If it were, the Navy would probably prohibit carriers from going into that area.
#22
Here in San Diego Bay, the Carriers tie up at North Island/Coronado, and the Navy's put up a floating barrier that keeps traffic away fom the Carriers (same at Ballast Point sub base). Anyone breeching the barrier would, I'm sure, have to "say hello to my leeettle friend"
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 11:54 Comments ||
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#23
Damn, it looks like those million monkeys with typewriters finally came up with something...
#24
Phil - you neglect to mention the protective screen surronding a carrier..able to defend from below, above and on the surface. For any ship to get within ramming range would be almost science fiction even in harbour.
Posted by: Dan ||
03/30/2004 12:19 Comments ||
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#25
I sure wouldn't want to be on or in any waters near a US Carrier in port right now. Especially after those protecting the ship have been forewarned. And VERY likely to empty magazines and ask questions later!
Posted by: Jack Deth ||
03/30/2004 13:23 Comments ||
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#26
Lol snellenr!
What might be fun is to leave a retiring ship "unguarded" as a lure. Then when the Islamotwerps approach up close in their little boats we could net 'em. Then we could leave them for shark bait.
#27
Dale you might care to check out these pictures of a US aircraft carrier in Sydney Harbour.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/30/2004 16:54 Comments ||
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#28
Phil, nice pics, but these are NOT "aircraft carriers". They're Assault Landing Ships, a hybrid "mini-carrier" used for Marine assault landings, with helicopters and some Marine AH-8 Harrier VTOL aircraft. ALL the true US aircraft carriers are designated as CV or CVN. The LHDs are "only" about 2/3 the size of a true carrier.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/30/2004 17:20 Comments ||
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#29
OP thanks for the correction. My point was that the pics show civilian craft close (200 metres?) to large US Navy ships with nothing in between.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/30/2004 17:29 Comments ||
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#30
Those pix are of ships docked in a friendly port. Change the location from Sydney Harbor to some ME port, and it's practically a certainty that any civilian craft in the vicinity won't be able to get as close as it needs to in order to inflict substantial damage. The Cole attack saw to that.
JUS [Jihad Unspun] received unconfirmed reports sometime ago that the Supreme leader of Taliban and unemployed potentate Commander of the Faithful Mullah Mohammad Omar was wounded in a bombing raid on Kabul approximately two weeks ago. We chose not to release this unconfirmed information as we endeavored to confirm this information at source. Since that time, reports of Mullah Omarâs alleged injuries had made their way to mainstream press. Today we publish the original information we received in an effort to quell any more rumors. We emphasis the information that follows has not been confirmed at source and until it is, must be considered with caution.
On or about March 11, 2004, it is alleged that Mullah Omar was the target of a missile attack that killed four of his bodyguards and seriously injured Omar himself. It is said that he received injuries to the left side of his body and both of his legs. The attack was allegedly carried out in Zabul during a Shura council meeting. Other senior Taliban leaders are said to have not been injured. Again, we remind our viewers this information. We will update this report as we are able to confirm these alleged events.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
03/30/2004 6:34:04 PM ||
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I want to caution everyone on this report of a missile attack. It is quite possible that it was not a missile, but a missle or rokit or even the dread guided meesile. All is speculation currently has the time is.
#2
LOL ship....so "Supreme" leader is a gimp with one eye...this is gonna make his next moto-escape a little more perilous, no?
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 19:27 Comments ||
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#3
Mossile Bites Kan Be Veerry Nasty...
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
03/30/2004 19:27 Comments ||
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#4
These injuries are going to seriously impact upon M.O.'s quality bike time, ya know.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/30/2004 19:57 Comments ||
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#5
Which eye was missing? If it was the right-eye, the Omar may be blind with only one ear.
Not too mention his legs are injured so he'll be in a wheelchair.
Posted by: Charles ||
03/30/2004 20:08 Comments ||
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#6
Charles, if he's in a wheelchair, do you think we'll be able to 'borrow' one of those wheelchair-homing missiles the Israelis used to take out "sheik" Yassin????
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/30/2004 20:20 Comments ||
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#7
one eye, one ear, one arm, one leg....not half the man he used to be
Posted by: john ||
03/30/2004 20:22 Comments ||
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#8
Isn't there some company that will help him get a motorized scooter even if medicare won't pay for it? As I understand it, they help with the paperwork and are cordial on the phone as well.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
03/30/2004 21:50 Comments ||
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#9
Supposedly, Omar isn't ambulatory. Find out where the guy is and carpet bomb the entire area.
EFL - JPost Reg Reqâd
Palestinian terrorists tried to recruit a 15-year-old as a suicide bomber, at one point locking him in a dark room, but also luring him with clothes, a cell phone and promises of paradise, his family said Tuesday. and a pony!
The story of ninth-grader Tamer Khweirah, who was extricated by an alert older brother, underscored the growing use of children by terrorists and stoked Palestinian debate over what is permissible in the fight with Israel. Tamer is one of four teens arrested by the Israeli military in the West Bank city of Nablus in the past week on suspicion they were recruited by terrorists. One of the four, Hussam Abdo, 16, was caught at an Israeli checkpoint south of Nablus last week with eight kilograms of explosives strapped to his body. Listen to the howls of outrage from AI and HRW! (crickets chirping)
The boys knew each other, relatives said. Tamer, Hussam and a third youngster attended the same Nablus high school. The Israeli military said Palestinian militants are increasingly targeting youngsters, in part because they arouse less suspicion at Israeli checkpoints. The use of youngsters has drawn criticism also from some Palestinian intellectuals and educators, who said the militants are harming the Palestinian cause. The Al-Ayyam daily, which often reflects the views of the Palestinian Authority, on Tuesday ran a story on Tamer, including his parentsâ demand that the recruiters be prosecuted. The article was a rare sign of public criticism of the terrorists. However, Palestinian security officials said their forces have become so ineffective, largely due to Israeli restrictions, that they cannot rein in the terrorists. Itâs the Joooooos fault, I tell ya!
I seem to recall that the Israeli restrictions came about because they refused to rein in the terrorists. It's that cause -> effect thing again.
Tamer was approached by the Islamic Jihad at a Nablus mosque last week, after Israel assassinated Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin, said the boyâs oldest brother, Raed, 26, to whom Tamer confessed his subsequent secret encounters. In the mosque, Tamer and other worshippers were expressing their anger over the assassination, and a 19-year-old Islamic Jihad terrorist asked the youth whether he wanted to meet a religious leader, or sheik, from the group, Raed Khweirah said. meet? or meat?
Tamer was taken to a private home in Nablusâ old city, a militant stronghold, where he met the sheik, who introduced himself only as Ibrahim, Khweirah said. In the first session, the sheik spoke to Tamer about the need to avenge Yassin. In a second encounter last week, the sheik tried to persuade Tamer to carry out a suicide bombing, according to the boyâs older brother. The sheik locked Tamer in a dark room for a while, then took him to a well-lit room, explaining to the boy that this illustrated the difference between eternal damnation and paradise. Paradise and 72 virgins are assured for any bomber, the sheik told Tamer, who is from a well-to-do family and according to his family had a sheltered upbringing. When the youngster expressed concern that his familyâs house would be demolished - standard Israeli reprisal - the sheik said Islamic Jihad would pay 50,000 Jordanian dinar (US$ 35,000) to make up for the loss. When the boy protested that heâd like to be around for the weddings of his two sisters in the summer, the sheik told him that "you will go to paradise and meet them there," according to the older brother. nice
Islamic Jihad terrorists gave Tamer a cell phone to enable constant contact, and bought him a new shirt and pants as a purported sign of affection, his brother said. Khweirah said he became concerned about his younger brother, described as a model student, when he skipped school twice last week and was seen loitering downtown, smoking and talking on a cellphone. Khweirah said that last Thursday, he turned for help to the Al Aqsa Martyrsâ Brigades, a terrorist group with ties to Yasser Arafatâs Fatah movement. Al Aqsa itself has carried out suicide bombings, and its terrorists say they have no qualms about recruiting teens, provided they are mature enough to understand their suicidal mission. Still, Khweirah hoped they would agree that his brother was not an appropriate candidate. Later that day, a tearful Tamer returned home and confessed to his family, his brother said. Hashem Abu Hamdan, an Al Aqsa leader in Nablus wanted by Israel, said he was personally involved in getting Tamer back home safely but gave no further details.
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 3:41:40 PM ||
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It sounds like the Al Aqsa/Arafish axis needs to be tenderized "al-lah" Yassin. These guys won't give up until they themselves are killed. Picking on kids to do their dirty work. These guys are leaving the classification of humans and entering the classification of plague.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/30/2004 16:14 Comments ||
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I picture Islamic Jihad riding around the West Bank in late model sedans or primer-gray vans. "Hey kid, want some candy? Want to look at some dirty pictures?"
They are about on par with the freakin' kid-touchers!
#3
Is there any society in history which uses its young to implement it's policies by suicide. I think not. This shows how far the Paleos have sunken into depravity. Truly pathetic.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
03/30/2004 17:21 Comments ||
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The Israeli military said Palestinian militants are increasingly targeting youngsters, in part because they arouse less suspicion at Israeli checkpoints.
#5
This kind of shit should get maximum airtime in the media so that people realize what kind of depraved sick people these people are and STOP SUPPORTING THEM.
These are the kind of people Rachel Corrie (St. Pancake) supported. These are the kind of people the left supports.
Instead we will get 'American Idiot' and 'The Apprentence'......
#6
However, Palestinian security officials said their forces have become so ineffective, largely due to Israeli restrictions, that they cannot rein in the terrorists.
And they were doing such a good job before.
Posted by: Scott ||
03/30/2004 18:06 Comments ||
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AP, 'plague' - yes, I think that makes sense.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
03/30/2004 19:04 Comments ||
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They'll be marching in the streets in protest all over the world about this shit. Just wait!
However, Palestinian security officials said their forces have become so ineffective, largely due to Israeli restrictions, that they cannot rein in the terrorists.
And they were doing such a good job before.
As I remember it, their excuse back then was that dismantling the various terrorist groups would result in a Paleo civil war, something they supposedly wanted to avoid. And now it's "Israeli restrictions"?? Please.
WASHINGTON [MENL] -- The United States has found evidence that Libya traded nuclear and missile expertise with Egypt.
Home of our old friend Mohamed Elbaradei, chief of the IAEA.
Inspections by a British-U.S. team of Libyan facilities in late 2003 and early 2004 have uncovered evidence that Libya was both the source for and recipient of nuclear and missile technology and expertise from Egypt. Officials said the evidence confirmed suspicions over the last three years of a secret trade between Cairo and Tripoli in strategic weapons obtained from North Korea.
Now why do you suppose the IAEA didn't expose.....oh right.
"The evidence of Egyptian involvement in Libya's missile and nuclear weapons program is highly damaging and most of the doubts we had previously have been resolved," an official said. "That doesn't mean, however, that there will be imminent repercussions."
How much aid do we send Egypt again?
The officials did not elaborate on the type of evidence found in Libya. But they said Egypt appeared to have been using Libya as a way-station for obtaining nuclear and missile technology and components from North Korea.
This new relationship with Libya just keeps getting better all the time.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/30/2004 11:18:25 AM ||
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Wow. I was worried my attitude towards Baradei was shading into paranoia. Turns out I was probably right.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/30/2004 12:35 Comments ||
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Of course, MOHAMMED El Baradei's complicit...and he's Egyptian!
Posted by: Jen ||
03/30/2004 12:52 Comments ||
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If they have nearly developed nukes, maybe we were actually getting some value for the billions we sent to Egypt to supplement their military. I though it was all going to graft. What a surprise.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
03/30/2004 21:55 Comments ||
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Military today clarified that an Al-Qaeda fighter killed in an operation near the Afghan border was just a local intelligence operative and not the terror network's spy chief. "He is not really the intelligence chief for all Al-Qaeda, but he was one of the top intelligence people in Wana (South Waziristan) for Al-Qaeda," military spokesman Major General Shaukat Sultan told AFP. Sultan at a news conference on Monday said Pakistan army killed "Mr Abdullah, who was the chief of Al-Qaeda intelligence." Sultan still refused to answer questions whether the military recovered Abdullah's body, saying he has no details about the full name, nationality and identity of the man.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 9:44:51 AM ||
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He still made a useful distraction while the ISI spirited their asset away.
#2
Go figure. Next the Pak army will be saying stuff like "This attack really hurt Al-Qaeda's feelings, They feel very hurt about this...very, very hurt."
#3
I'm not certain at all what this particular exercise was about. In theory 7,000 Pak army assault 400-500 simple (tho well trained) light infantry, and lose. Was it all for the audience Dan or was their just a poor assault force? I mean sometimes you lose. (shrug) crap.
#4
The good news is that the Indian economy is getting ready to pickup due to the influx of goverment money since it is evident that the Indian Defense Department will only need 32 BAR men, 6 elephants, 2 huffalumps, 1 Famous Hatman, and a quality glider squandron to protect it'self from Pakistan.
Slightl EFL?d
Several hundred decommissioned Soviet-built surface-to-air missiles are unaccounted for in Ukraine's military arsenal, the defense minister told a newspaper. Defense Minister Yevhen Marchuk, in an interview published in the newspaper Den, appeared to suggest the missiles may have been dismantled without proper accounting, rather than stolen or sold. "We are looking for several hundred missiles," Marchuk was quoted as saying in Thursday?s edition. "They have already been decommissioned, but we cannot find them". Marchuk didn't specify the types of missile.
SA-2's, SA-3's, that sort of missile wouldn't be much to worry about. Kind of hard to smuggle from place to place. SA-7's and SA-14's are a different story.
Defense Ministry spokesman Kostyantyn Khivrenko told The Associated Press that he was referring to S-75 air defense missiles ? also known in the West by the code-name SA-2. Marchuk said the Defense Ministry hadn't observed the accounting requirements established by law until last summer, an apparent jab at his predecessors.
Ukraine doesn't give me warm fuzzies when it comes to their efficiency. But I'm not particularly worried about surprise attacks by terrs armed with 30-year-old SA-2s...
Hundreds of such missiles from Soviet arsenals in Warsaw Pact member countries had been brought to Ukraine for dismantling but were lost due to "accounting problems," Khivrenko said. He said the absence of records documenting what happened to the missiles was "strange," and added that an investigation was under way. It was the same type of missile that brought down a U.S. U-2 spy plane over the Ural Mountains in 1960.
Make that 40-year-old missiles...
Marchuk blamed his predecessors for not observing proper accounting standards while dealing with the missiles and other weapons. "They say they were destroyed. OK, destroyed," Marchuk said. "Every such missile has gold, silver, platinum metals. Where are the results of their destruction?" Marchuk said that when he became minister, "no one knew what the armed forces had," and after nine months in the job he still doesn't have a handle on it precise information. He said that inventories of military equipment had revealed a gaping hole equivalent to some $189 billion. In comparison, Ukraine's entire budget last year was less than $10 billion.
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
03/30/2004 12:39:27 AM ||
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...I got sidetracked last night when i posted this, so I forgot to add the following - Saddam's most numerous SAM was the SA-2. On top of that, there were reports right before the war that his weapons guys had managed to figure out how to use the SA-2 in a surface to surface role. Wondering if there's a connection...
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
03/30/2004 10:02 Comments ||
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I think the use of SA-2s in an SSM role would involve launching and assuming it would hit the ground someplace.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/30/2004 11:24 Comments ||
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Assuming this story is true, I'd guess that the missiles were sold to Syria or some other ex-Soviet client which already had the launchers.
#4
I believe the Iraquis were just making use of the SA-2's first stage and straping on a bigger warhead and making a sort of poor man's extended range FROG.
#5
The Russians first deployed the SA-2 in 1953, so it's actually a 50+ year-old missile. There have been a number of upgrades, but it's still pretty much a dumb flying telephone pole. It's also HEAVY, and requires extensive support to use as an anti-aircraft missile. As for using it as a long-range artillery round, you'd have to use a different warhead, and the maximum range is about 30 miles. I'd suggest the better explanation is that they were stolen, broken down for parts and metals (as the article points out, there's a lot of gold, silver, and other precious metals used in the guidance electronics), and the rest sold as scrap.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/30/2004 16:56 Comments ||
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Uzbekistan has launched a massive hunt for suspects after two women set off bombs at a children's store and bus stop in the capital - the first suicide attacks in the former Soviet Central Asia that's now a key supporter of the U.S.-led war on terror. President Islam Karimov blamed Islamic extremists for the violence Sunday and Monday and said several arrests were made already. He said backing for the attacks might have come from a banned radical group that has never before been linked to terrorist acts - Hizb ut-Tahrir, or the Party of Liberation. The group denied responsibility.
"Who? Us? No, no! Certainly not!"
"I call on everyone to unite and protect our country from enemies like this, to come forward against them as one fist," Karimov, the country's former Soviet leader who has held power since before Uzbekistan's 1991 independence, said on state-run television. The U.S. Embassy in Tashkent warned that "other terrorists are believed still at large and may be attempting additional attacks."
Sounds like the offensive's under way. I still wonder what it has to do with the late festivities in South Waziristan, and whether it's IMU — and whether there's a difference between IMU and Hizb ut-Tahrir.
"The attacks are yet another example of the importance of continued cooperation against those who would stop at nothing to achieve their misguided goals," U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said in Washington.
Which is why we should be helping the Uzbeks hunt the Bad Guys down and kill them...
Police found 50 bottles with homemade ingredients for bombs and instructions on how to make them, a Kalashnikov rifle, two pistols, ammunition and extremist Islamic literature, he said. The two assaults on police took place at a factory Sunday night and a traffic checkpoint early Monday. Three officers were killed. One accused terrorist was arrested Sunday night after police stopped his vehicle and found 10 homemade bombs inside, but another suspect escaped, Kadyrov said.
That'd probably be the guy they really want to catch, though they can content themselves with thumping on the one they got for now...
Officials declined to give further details about the attacks, which went unmentioned on state-run TV until Monday evening. Bazaars and shops were closed and soldiers armed with Kalashnikovs were on guard outside Tashkent's central department store and across the city. Police and intelligence agents closed off the Chorsu bazaar, one of the biggest in Tashkent, and vans carrying investigators were massed in front of Children's World. Uzbek television showed a streak of blood across the sidewalk in front of the store and spattered on walls inside, with workers sweeping up heaps of shattered glass. Karimov said the attacks were planned six to eight months in advance and had been originally set to take place around the Central Asian new year holiday Navruz, which falls on March 21, but that heavy security prevented them. The planning and money required to carry out such attacks also indicated they had outside support, he said.
Comes as a surprise, huh?
In London, where Hizb ut-Tahrir operates openly, the group denied responsibility for the attacks. "Hizb ut-Tahrir does not engage in terrorism, violence or armed struggle," said spokesman Imran Waheed. "We feel these explosions come at a very opportune moment for the Uzbek regime. ... One has to wonder whether the finger of blame should be pointed at the Uzbek regime itself."
I've noticed that Bad Guys often make that charge. I've yet to see one substantiated, even in Turkey, where it could have been true ten years ago...
Uzbek authorities have insisted the group is a breeding ground for terrorists and have sought to have Washington label it a terrorist group.
I agree. It should be. It funnels bad boys into the hard core groups, while maintaining a face just this side of legitimacy...
Uzbekistan's tiny opposition, banned by Karimov's authoritarian regime from working openly, feared the attacks would deepen a widespread crackdown against dissent and independent Islamic mosques that has led to the jailings of thousands and evoked international condemnation. Karimov said the attacks also bore similarities to the February 1999 bombings in Tashkent that authorities allege targeted the president and killed 16 people.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 1:25:25 AM ||
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I think there's no doubt that these terrorists are tied into Al-Qaida. Uzbeks fought with Al-Qaida in Afghanistan and of course the so-called "high-ranking" Al-Qaida official that was cornered in Wana in Pakistan this past week was said to be an Uzbek militant. Probably the Uzbek intelligence agency/agencies gave some intel to the Pakistanis and perhaps provided interpreters to translate the communications intercepts from the Wana district (many of the communications between the militants were in Uzbek and Chechen.) So the said warlord probably got mad that the Uzbek government helped the Pakistanis and he's probably just generally upset about being attacked, so he called home and gave the order to blow some stuff up so he can feel like a man again (as opposed to feeling like a scurrying RAT) and show that he has power. Well, they're ready for him back home in Uzbekistan, where a crack team of anti-terrorism forces recently trained by American Special Forces await the terrorist's stooges. Uzbek's government can be famously savage in its crackdowns. They use torture, etc. They are real thugs, but they're "allied" thugs.
A new explosion occurred outside the Uzbek capital on Tuesday followed by an exchange of gunfire involving police, the Russian news agency Itar-Tass said in a report from Tashkent. Tass, quoting unnamed police sources, said some people had been wounded in the incident 15 km (10 miles) outside Tashkent.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 1:20:55 AM ||
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[Troll droppings deleted]
Posted by: Smith TROLL ||
03/30/2004 7:39 Comments ||
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See how the American worker's SSI was depleted.
PLEASE NOTE: Delete spaces in censored URL below.
http://A mericanD efenseL eague.com/jewsnssi.htm
Posted by: Jackson TROLL ||
03/30/2004 7:39 Comments ||
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Two Pakistanis held hostage by Islamic militants on the Afghan border have been killed, a Pakistani government official said on Tuesday. The two district officials were among 14 government men captured by al Qaeda fighters and other militants in a Pakistani offensive launched on March 16. Twelve of the hostages were released unharmed on Sunday. The bodies of the two men were brought to a paramilitary camp and identified, a paramilitary officer said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 1:14:55 AM ||
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honor/shame culture? It's gonna be hard for Perv to back down and retain any respect. Suck it up, big guy, clean house and the tribal territories.
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 7:37 Comments ||
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I'm waiting for the rationalization to kick in. There's got to be some reason to put it all behind them and move on, thereby avoiding actual military operations.
I'm not impressed with the Pak cops, but their army impresses me even less.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/30/2004 9:22 Comments ||
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Perv: you need to hang 'em high an' hang 'em often... twice if need be!
A BRITISH couple murdered by gunmen in the breakaway East African state of Somaliland were the victims of an al-Qaeda cell sent to kill humanitarian workers, the countryâs interior minister has claimed. Richard Eyeington, 62, and his wife Enid, 61, died when a gunman opened fire through the window of their home as they sat watching television last October.
That was a spectacular act of Islamic bravery, by Gum...
Two weeks earlier, gunmen had shot dead an Italian doctor in the country, and, two weeks ago, a Kenyan consultant working for a German aid agency was killed and her German colleague was injured in another gun attack. Five men have already been arrested in connection with the killings, but other members of the group remain on the run. Now Ismail Adan Osman, the countryâs interior minister, says the attacks were the work of an al-Qaeda cell sent to Somaliland from Mogadishu, in neighbouring Somalia, to kill foreign workers. Two of the al-Qaeda operatives identified by the Somaliland authorities are on a United Statesâ wanted list. According to Mr Osman, the five gunmen already arrested have confessed to carrying out the latest attack as part of a wider al-Qaeda-run operation. The two men on the US wanted list are reported to have escaped to Mogadishu, which has long been considered by Washington to be a safe haven for al-Qaeda operatives.
That would appear to support early assertions that the transitional national government was an al-Qaeda front ...
Somaliland has also accused its neighbour of harbouring terrorist groups, and Mr Osman claimed that three of the five men arrested were related to the Somali interim president, Abdiqasim Salad Hasan. An editorial in the Somaliland Times, on Saturday spoke angrily of an attempt by al-Qaeda to destabilise the country. It read: "Al-Qaeda wants to turn all the Somali-speaking territories in the Horn into another Afghanistan. (It is just a pity that these rich Wahabists should spend their money for causing further death and destruction to fellow Muslims).
Got a pretty fair handle on who the enemy is, at least...
"Secondly, al-Qaeda sees Somalilandâs on-going democratic transformation as a threat against its Wahabist form of Islam, one of the main root-causes of current Islamist extremism. There is no doubt that the people of Somaliland will rise up to meet the challenges posed by the threat of terrorism." A senior government official quoted by the paper said that Somaliland needed international assistance if it was to combat the terrorist threat. "As long as potential terrorists continued enjoying sanctuary in Mogadishu and elsewhere in former Italian Somalia, coupled with the international communityâs continued failure to respond to Somalilandâs repeated requests for external assistance, needed to substantially enhance the countryâs counter-terrorism capabilities, the terrorist threat would still be there," he said. The murder of the Eyeingtons at the Sheikh Secondary School, 500 miles north of Mogadishu, prompted fears of an anti-western backlash as a result of the war in Iraq.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 1:09:37 AM ||
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another brave islamic hero...shooting an elderly couple while they watch TV. F*&king cowards
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 7:43 Comments ||
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Well said, Frank.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/30/2004 7:47 Comments ||
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Al-Qaeda wants to turn all the Somali-speaking territories in the Horn into another Afghanistan. (It is just a pity that these rich Wahabists should spend their money for causing further death and destruction to fellow Muslims).
"Secondly, al-Qaeda sees Somalilandâs on-going democratic transformation as a threat against its Wahabist form of Islam, one of the main root-causes of current Islamist extremism. There is no doubt that the people of Somaliland will rise up to meet the challenges posed by the threat of terrorism."
so can we put Somaliland (NOT Somalia) on the list of Muslim good guys?
#7
Richard Eyeington, 62, and his wife Enid, 61, died when a gunman opened fire through the window of their home as they sat watching television
DO NOT EVER WATCH JEW-TUBE AKA ELECTRONIC BOLSHEVIK!
I hate to be the wet blanket, but he's been dead before in Lebanon as well as in Kenya. Also you'll forgive my skepticism of Pakistani intelligence after the recent debacle in South Waziristan ...
An al-Qaida intelligence chief reported killed during a 12-day border offensive by Pakistani forces is believed to be one of the FBIâs âmost wantedâ terrorists and an architect of the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, senior U.S. officials told NBC News on Monday. The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said they had no independent confirmation of the Pakistani claim that a âMr. Abdullahâ had been killed in the fierce fighting along the border with Afghanistan. But they said they believe that the person referred to by Pakistani authorities is Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah, who has been indicted on murder and conspiracy charges in connection with the simultaneous attacks on the U.S. embassies, which killed 224 people, including 12 Americans, and injured more than 5,400.
Uhuh. And I believe that the Mr. Jones bumped off by drug dealers a few weeks ago was actually John Paul Jones, the famous American naval officer, even though he, too, was previously reported dead. They have the same name, right? Must be the same guy.
The officials spoke hours after Pakistan Army spokesman Maj.-Gen. Shaukat Sultan announced in Islamabad that an al-Qaida intelligence chief, whom he identified only as âMr. Abdullah,â had been killed in the border operation. He would not provide further details, such as the manâs nationality, full name or how and when he was killed.
Probably because he doesn't know them. Golly. The dead guy could also be Binny, who goes by the nom de guerre Abu Abdullah.
Sultan said that the dead man was among 63 militants killed by Pakistani troops during the raid on the semi-autonomous South Waziristan tribal territory bordering eastern Afghanistan that ended on Sunday. Another 163 militants were captured, including 73 foreigners, he said.
But there were supposedly anywhere from 400-700 in the area. What happened to the rest of them?
They're in Chicago, for the Ice Capades...
Later Monday, Pakistani intelligence officials told The Associated Press that the report was based on intercepted radio conversations indicating that a man named Abdullah had been killed and that his death caused a great deal of distress among the al-Qaida forces. âHe was a very important person for al-Qaida,â said one Pakistani official, who like the others spoke on condition of anonymity.
See? They were upset. Toldja it was Binny...
He added that interrogations of suspected al-Qaida members led the Pakistanis to believe that Abdullah was the groupâs top intelligence official. But the officials acknowledged that no body has been found, and one member of Pakistan's intelligence service said that none of the captured militants had so far identified a photo of Abdullah that interrogators were showing to prisoners. Without a body â and after earlier speculation that al-Qaidaâs No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri was cornered â the officials were cautious about any conclusions, since many al-Qaida leaders use aliases.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/30/2004 1:04:15 AM ||
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"a man named abdullah was killed"--in other news a man named john smith was killed in a u.s. car accident--wtf
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
03/30/2004 2:22 Comments ||
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For the really bad jihadis you've got to use the silver bullets AND wooden stake thru the heart.
"I ain't sayin' nuttin' widdout me mout'piece!"
He doesn't have a lawyer in the room, but Saddam Hussein apparently is practicing what most attorneys would advise: Don't talk. Diplomatic and military officials say the former Iraqi leader has provided little useful information in interrogations so far - and may even be having fun.
"Youse guys, wotta buncha cards. Okay, one more time: so the Sunni says to the Shi'a, 'that's not a pig!'" [laughter]
The questioning of Saddam - initially handled by the CIA - is now a joint CIA-FBI operation, a sign that the aim is changing from finding intelligence to gathering evidence for any eventual trials. The people who are asking the questions at the moment are from the FBI, said a U.S. intelligence official, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
"I can say no more -- on the record."
In a recent interview, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said he occasionally sees the interrogation briefing reports. "He's a pretty wily guy, and he's not giving much information that I've seen. But he seems to be enjoying the debate," Armitage told WPHT-AM radio in Philadelphia. House Intelligence Chairman Porter Goss, R-Fla., now calls the questioning a "patience project." "He is very good at denial and deception. I am not sure he even knows what the truth is anymore," Goss said. "I think he's been surrounded by yes-men and syncophants."
I think Sammy's been living in his own world for years. Reality's what he says it is...
In an interview last week, FBI Director Robert Mueller said the FBI is assisting with "certain interrogations" in Iraq, as well as helping with investigations into killings there. He said the bureau is also working with documents obtained in Iraq. Those most likely include Saddam's papers. Vince Cannistraro, a former counterterrorism director for the CIA, said papers found with Saddam when he was captured have proved much more useful than anything the former leader has said. "Every thing that they have found and taken action on has come from documentation found on him," Cannistraro said. A team of 50 Justice Department prosecutors, investigators and support staff has traveled to Iraq to help assemble a war-crimes case against Saddam and others in his former government.
I have the feeling Sammy's trial's going to be much more elaborate and complicated than it should be. I have visions of clowns, elephants, midgets and ladies in tights turning somersaults on a high wire. Not to mention ambulatory papier mache heads and guys on stilts...
But Justice officials take pains to say that the United States is there only to assist the Iraqis with advice on what their options for a trial might be. The officials say they are helping the Iraqis to organize evidence and lay out possible charges, and aiding them in finding cooperating witnesses and key documents. The U.S. team is joined by legal experts from Britain, Spain and Poland. While it's possible Saddam could be put on trial before any others, Justice officials say another approach would be to start lower and work up the ladder of seniority. The hope would be that some Iraqi officials might be persuaded to testify against Saddam to avoid harsh sentences.
They'd have to be pretty brave; Saddam can still scare them to death.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/30/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Just a thought about the claim that the Iraq invasion was all about the (so-far) missing WMD -- why was the mission named "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and not "Operation Find Saddam's Missing WMD?"
Posted by: Tibor ||
03/30/2004 0:50 Comments ||
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i just don't understand why they don't put an electric cattle prod up his ass until he tells where the wmd are hidden--that would take the smile off his face--the use of ky would give torture deniability--in fact we could claim its a pleasure
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
03/30/2004 2:34 Comments ||
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#3
What I don't get is why nobody made the case that invading Iraq was the only way to give Usama what he wanted.
In 1996, UBL demanded the US get out of Saudi Arabia. But the US was in SA to protect both it and Kuwait from Saddam, who had already displayed his fondness for military adventurism twice during the 80's. So, to get us out of Saudi Arabia, we had to remove the reason we were there in the first place. Which meant removing Saddam.
So here is a prime example of the US giving UBL exactly what he wanted, (if not the way he wanted it) and the lefties are still not happy. There is just no pleasing some people
Posted by: Ben ||
03/30/2004 4:36 Comments ||
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#4
Sheesh, use the battery on his nads...and put the needle in his arm and pump him full of stuff that will make him wish he were Al Franken.
#6
Whoa whoa WHOA !! Back up. John Kerry was in Vietnam ??? You mean visiting recently, right ?
Posted by: John C. Lately ||
03/30/2004 14:58 Comments ||
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#7
Ben, Ben, Ben...
Remember that old saying, "Be careful what you ask for, you might get it"? OBL does, I'm sure.
Before 9/11, OBL had all of Afghanistan to train terrorists in, the help of the local government, and money pouring in from all sides. Today, he's hiding in caves, he and his people are constantly being chased from place to place, and he doesn't dare stay in the same place more than three days. Before, he could use just about any means of communication he chose - now, anything but the most trusted courier - and tons of luck - are deadly.
Before, money flowed from Saudi Arabia, from "charities" all over the world, and from Saddam Hussein's "oil-for-palaces-and-terror" program. Most of that has been stifled, frozen, impounded, or just plain taken, and what does trickle through is carefully spent, because any major expenditure might attract attention.
Before 9/11, OBL and his minions could travel fairly freely through all the Middle East, perhaps freely through all the Muslim-dominated world. Today they have trouble moving back and forth between Afghanistan and Pakistan, the least-defined border in the world. ALL Muslims face greater scrutiny everywhere, because they happen to be the ones that have been active in the bombings, and the US has demanded (and gotten at least token response from even the most servile governments) that such people be watched.
Today, the United States and its allies have more than 13,000 military personnel in Afghanistan, and almost 200,000 in Iraq. We're training an indiginous Iraqi army, developing a democratic government, and training a local police force, none of which are directly under the finger of the Mullahs. We're doing much the same in Afghanistan. We have access to 20 LARGE military bases in the very heart of the Middle East - in a nation that has a land border with Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Iran on one side, and with Iran, Pakistan, and several of the former Russian republics on the other. Oil production from Iraq is already above pre-war levels, and we're just getting started. The local economy is booming, and expected to grow at a 20%+ rate. Things are better than they've EVER been for 75% of the population.
The United States says Saddam isn't talking. Who cares? The PEOPLE are talking. Our actions are talking. What we DID in Iraq and Afghanistan is talking. People are looking around them, and liking what they see. OBL got his wish. If he's not already splattered all over the inside of a cave at Tora Bora, I'm sure he's beating his head against one somewhere, cursing himself for the fool he is.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/30/2004 15:41 Comments ||
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#8
In related news Walt Disney World annouced that the "It's A Small World" ride is to be closed for "repairs". Nothing can make you talk, ehh? 24/7 ought to do the trick.
Posted by: bruce ||
03/30/2004 17:42 Comments ||
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#9
Thank you Bruce. I now have a major earworm. I likely will need halucinogens to hep me thru this trial you've laid upon me YOU BASTARD. LOL.
#10
#8 bruce wrote: In related news Walt Disney World annouced that the "It's A Small World" ride is to be closed for "repairs". Nothing can make you talk, ehh? 24/7 ought to do the trick.
I have to agree with P.J. O'Rourke - it would be a pretty good ride if they handed you a bucket of baseballs as you climbed into the boat.
Posted by: A Jackson ||
03/30/2004 19:18 Comments ||
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#11
eexxceelllllennnt earworm - thanksalot Bruce!
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/30/2004 19:48 Comments ||
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#12
The "small world" ride would be more accurate if you had everyone shooting eachother and tossing hand-grenades.
Posted by: Charles ||
03/30/2004 20:42 Comments ||
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#13
It is intriguing to me that pretty much the only quote from Saddam post-him, is his saying that he wanted to negotiate. I have no idea if he really said that - but it is significant that that was pretty much all that he's credited for saying.
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