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Page 1: WoT Operations
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-Short Attention Span Theater-
GILLESPIE SAYS DEMS HITTING NEW LOWS
REPUBLICAN CHAIRMAN ED GILLESPIE ON SUNDAY ACCUSED DEMOCRATS OF HITTING NEW LOWS IN THE BUILDUP TO WHITE HOUSE RACE ’04.
(Can they dig any deeper? Of course they can.)

GILLESPIE EXPLAINED ON NBC’S MEET THE PRESS: "IF YOU SAW THE DEBATE THE OTHER NIGHT WITH THE NINE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES, I THINK HISTORY WILL SHOW THIS FIELD HAS TAKEN PRESIDENTIAL DISCOURSE TO A NEW LOW. THE RHETORIC YOU HEAR, ON EITHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, RONALD REAGAN NEVER SAID JIMMY CARTER COULDN’T FIND COUNTRIES IN HIS OWN HEMISPHERE.

"MONDALE NEVER SAID REAGAN WAS A MISERABLE FAILURE. WHEN BILL CLINTON RAN AGAINST GEORGE BUSH, HE DIDN’T COMPARE HIM TO SADDAM HUSSEIN OR THE TALIBAN. WHEN BOB DOLE RAN AGAINST CLINTON, HE DIDN’T SAY HE WAS A PHONY OR LIAR. THE WORDS WE’RE HEARING FROM THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES IS SO BEYOND POLITICAL DEBATE. THIS IS POLITICAL HATE SPEECH.

"I THINK THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL REJECT THAT APPROACH. THEY APPRECIATE THE PRESIDENT’S STRONG AND PRINCIPLED LEADERSHIP, THAT HE HAS A POSITIVE AGENDA AND THEY HAVE NOTHING BUT NEGATIVITY AND PESSIMISM TO OFFER."

(I watched this and the DNC Chairman had NO reply except a charge that Bush called McCain crazy (Not true/No proof). Even IF true the Dems have pushed the line of rhetoric to that far side of the field. I was convinced when I saw an interview with Gen (Wussy) Clark. he could not find ANYTHING that Bush had done right other than post 9/11 speech. Saddle up boys this is going to be one rough ride until the next election.)
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/08/2003 11:49:31 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Democratic Party is sinking lower and lower with each day. They're not doing this in a vacuum, however - CNN/CBS/NBC/ABC and NPR are all right there, holding their hands, encouraging them, promoting them, and in general trying to do everything in their power to sow discord,confusion, and just plain old hate against anything but the Democratic Party. Party activity of this nature reminds me of the speeches of Bin Laden, Kruschev, Castro, Kimmie boy, and Yasser Arafart. Do the Democrats really want to reflect this kind of behavior? There's a distinct possibility that backlash from this will destroy the Democratic Party beyond saving.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 12:13 Comments || Top||

#2  It will be interesting to see if the American people can ignore the crap and see reality with all the constant squawking. I am optimistic but not naieve.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 12:21 Comments || Top||

#3  Super Hose, Unfortunately the majority of american people get their 'world news' from ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/NPR and cant see beyond their own noses.

I lost all respect for the American media when Hillary made her 'Vast Right Wing Conspiracy' statement and wasn't laughed off the stage but was actually taken seriously.

When I started looking at non-american media my 'eyes were open!' and I discovered that what was shown on the above networks were pre-digested biased drivel... (if not outright lies).

I hope the Reps run a ad comparing the statements of the Democrats with the likes of Stalin, Mao, Kimmie boy, Arafat, Binnie, etc.... But that would probably be labeled (by the media) as 'hate speech'......
Posted by: GregJ || 09/08/2003 13:02 Comments || Top||

#4  I got 2 words for you whining Repooplicans--Kenneth Starr
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/08/2003 22:47 Comments || Top||

#5  I got 2 words for you whining Repooplicans--Kenneth Starr
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/08/2003 22:47 Comments || Top||

#6  I agree with the political hate speach comment, but Bush let out the dogs on John McCain in South Carolina and after.

It was not Bush directly calling out McCain, it was the very base attack ads [one about McCain and the environment was laughable at the time and even moreso now].

That being said, I support Bush with his conduct after 9-11. He led during Afghanistan, but completely dropped the ball in Iraq. It looks like he now is in "win at all costs" mode, which he should have been at from day one.
Posted by: Cog || 09/08/2003 23:08 Comments || Top||

#7  Poor baby. Like the GOP has never dished out crap?
Posted by: Hiryu || 09/09/2003 9:43 Comments || Top||


Conscientious objector guilty of unauthorized absence
A Marine reservist who said he failed to report for duty because he is a conscientious objector was found guilty of unauthorized absence but innocent of desertion Saturday. Lance Cpl. Stephen Funk was sentenced to six months in prison and will receive a bad-conduct discharge, which results in his losing all military benefits, after he gets out of prison. Funk’s rank will be dropped from lance corporal to private, the lowest rank in the Marines, and two-thirds of his pay will be docked for six months. "It seems a bit harsh for the crime," said Stephen Collier, Funk’s lawyer, about the punishment.
To me, it seems pretty lenient...
The desertion charge accused Funk, 21, of "shirking important duty" for missing 47 days of service. His San Jose, Calif.-based unit was mobilized February 13 to load ships and cargo planes in San Diego bound for the Middle East.
He objected to loading cargo???
Funk said he became a conscientious objector after several months of being trained to kill. Funk, who attended anti-war rallies while absent and later announced he was gay, has said that the Marines were trying to make an example of him.
Why not, sounds like a well-rounded individual.
The Seattle native argued that he did not believe he was going to be required to go to San Diego because those who declare themselves conscientious objectors are usually separated from their unit. If so, he argued, then he would not have had to perform the "important duty." But the Marine prosecutor, Maj. Mike Sayegh, argued that during wartime, any presidential order to report for duty is important. Sayegh told a jury of an officer and three enlisted personnel that the case "is about a kid who thought he could beat the system." Funk testified that he joined the Marines to earn money for college and that he did not think it likely he’d be activated for war.
Oops.
Posted by: Rafael || 09/08/2003 7:29:39 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Why would someone confused about their patriotism choose the Marine Corps? A marine's purpose of becoming a killing machine is made pretty clear by the gunnies within about 15 of the old head shaving.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 8:00 Comments || Top||

#2  Anyone remember when a conscientious objector would still do their duty as a medic, ambulance driver, or -- as in this case -- longshoreman?

Well, neither do I. I understand it was once like that, though.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 09/08/2003 8:42 Comments || Top||

#3  Yep Robert. In fact there is a Medal of Honor winner who was a medic and a CO.
Posted by: Don || 09/08/2003 8:58 Comments || Top||

#4  In short this deserter thought he would get the benefits (collage, money, etc...) without having to pay the price for it (in this case the low risk of loading ships). When he was called up (oh my! That wasn't supposed to happen! Where's my Prozac and Lattie?) he turned objector (and probably became gay too) and refused to load ships.

"It seems a bit harsh for the crime," said Stephen Collier, Funk’s lawyer, about the punishment.

How does a firing squad sound? Isn't that the punishment for desertion during time of war?
Posted by: GregJ || 09/08/2003 9:02 Comments || Top||

#5  A good example of modern schooling at its worst. Words have meaning. Swearing an oath has meaning. This useless idiot thought that he could say the words, and not follow through. He's paying the price for it. I only wish the teachers and others who have taught him he doesn't have to respect his oath, that words mean what the speaker thinks they do and everything is relative, won't be serving time with him.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 9:54 Comments || Top||

#6  Idiot, he'd get practice and could get a job starting at $100K a year.

But he probably doesn't want to do "manual labor."
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 10:04 Comments || Top||

#7  Obviously, a deeply confused young lad... he thought he was joining the Boy Scouts, or something. Schmuck!!!
Posted by: Sgt. Mom || 09/08/2003 10:05 Comments || Top||

#8  good thing he's gay

I'm not sure he's even gay - I suspect he said he was gay to take advantage of the "don't ask, don't tell" automatic discharge policy for people who say they are coming out of the closet. Unfortunately, this no-fault disclosure rule is going to have people making false claims of being gay, just to get out of their term of enlistment. This is one unfortunate byproduct of no-fault disclosure - an automatic court martial would be more of a deterrent to false claims of homosexuality.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 10:11 Comments || Top||

#9  This just kills me. A "conscientious objector" in a volunteer force? Please.

If one doesn't like to shoot people, then DON'T JOIN UP. What an idiot.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/08/2003 10:35 Comments || Top||

#10  Correct, Bomb. The Medal of Honor winner Don spoke of was a draftee in World War II and served in the Pacific Theatre. CO status makes sense in a draft, but not in a volunteer army.
Posted by: Ptah || 09/08/2003 10:54 Comments || Top||

#11  We have developed the concept that a contract has effect only when it delivers something one wants; i.e. tuition and reserve pay. When one decides that the contract will now deliver something that one does not want; i.e., working on the docks, then one can unilaterally abrogate the contract. This abrogation is termed "fairness" in New Speak. The concept applies to earning grades - "You mean I have to turn in a paper? How unfair!" Or meeting debts. "You want me pay my credit card bill. But I don't have any money. How unfair!".
So our young Private played the fairness card. After all, he'd been trained to use it. But let's make one thing clear -- he is not a Marine. Maybe in the world of legalism he is, but in the world of us who earned that title, he discarded it along with his honor. No Semper Fi for him.
Posted by: Highlander || 09/08/2003 11:00 Comments || Top||

#12  MEPS should require signature on a form stating that "I understand that the Marine Corps is not a money-for-college program, and that I may be required, from time to time, to actually do my duty."

'course, he obviously lied on the "I am not a homosexual" portion, so this probably won't help either.
Posted by: BH || 09/08/2003 11:16 Comments || Top||

#13  Now I'm confused! In my Navy, being UA for over 30 days was automatically desertion. Per the UCMJ. What is so special about this little fuckup to bend the rules? Oh, well, it's a brave new world we're living in now. So, let's not upset anybody by applying the rules and regulations as written.
Posted by: Bubblehead || 09/08/2003 11:20 Comments || Top||

#14  I only hope that after review the sentence is not reduced. This guy failed his contract and he should face the music. FYI Frank, Military prisons are a LOT more supervised than say 'OZ'. So Pvt Funk probably will not have to become the barracks boy toy.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/08/2003 11:57 Comments || Top||

#15  We are fighting a war -- this sounds like a firing squad case to me. Or at least a cell in gitmo until we decide what to do.
Posted by: Tom || 09/08/2003 12:43 Comments || Top||

#16  This guy was probably so deluded, he didn't realize he would be loading things such as: Medical supplies, food, clothing, building equitment, and other REASONABLE things.

What he objected to was helping to get medical supplies and humanitarian aid to Iraq.
Posted by: Charles || 09/08/2003 13:50 Comments || Top||

#17  We are fighting a war -- this sounds like a firing squad case to me.

Moronic as this Marine is, I suspect his conduct falls well short of the standard of a capital offense. Even in WWII, only one soldier was ever executed for desertion (the rest of the 70 were for rape or murder). More deserving of a firing squad is the Muslim soldier who fragged his officers while they were stationed in Kuwait.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 13:54 Comments || Top||

#18  ... guilty of unauthorized absence but innocent of desertion...

The verdict seems to be a case of political expediency. It doesn't make "Funk-up" a martyr.
The sentence is about what a deserter would get.

One officer and three enlisted on the jury? And his lawyer wonders why this clown got the sentence he did?

Ten to one he goes before a discharge review board to get his BCD upgraded.
Posted by: Pappy || 09/08/2003 14:03 Comments || Top||

#19  Cyber Sarge, I'm sure you're right on that, and I doubt he's gay too...just trying anything to get out of his duty...I was just being snarky (and a little over the top now that I had my coffee and reread my comment - my apologies)
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 14:23 Comments || Top||

#20  Dress the kid in a Speedoand make the kid watch a video of some greased up Chippendales doing their stuff. Then we won't have to speculate on whether he's gay.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 14:52 Comments || Top||

#21  Sounds like they just want him to go away. They'll make him pay a bit of a price though. Good riddance, dickweed.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/08/2003 14:56 Comments || Top||

#22  This is the clown who, when he turned himself in, was holding his Mommie's hand! (photo in the news)

What a pathetic loser.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 09/08/2003 16:33 Comments || Top||

#23  Barbara: Yup, had his sister carrying his seabag, too.
Posted by: BH || 09/08/2003 18:20 Comments || Top||

#24  Hmm desertion during wartime is a capital offense, not 6 months. A C.O. as a marine? Did he think the marines were a social club or what?
Posted by: flash91 - fatwah you talkin bout willis || 09/08/2003 19:20 Comments || Top||

#25  On his next imployment application I bet he has an interesting time with the Military Service section.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 19:56 Comments || Top||

#26  Hmm--but doesn't it have to be a "real war" declared by Congress instead of a NeoCon exercise to qualify for the firing squad?
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/08/2003 22:52 Comments || Top||

#27  The best part - the best part of ALL - is that he is going to discover what the term 'disciplinary barracks' means. BWHAHAHAHAHA......


Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 09/09/2003 0:44 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan
Taliban recruits new tier of terror
EFL
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Hundreds and possibly thousands of Taliban recruits known as the "Sarbaz" — those who care nothing for their own lives — are involved in an increasing number of hit-and-run attacks against government and American troops.
Among them are young men like Siddiqullah, 24, who despite his recent engagement has put his life on hold to wage a holy war on "infidel" forces occupying his country.
"My parents insisted that I wait for a while and get married, but I told them that my first and last commitment is jihad and I don’t want to make any other commitment at this stage," he said. "Jihad is now ordained for all of us." His enthusiasm is shared by hundreds of students from religious seminaries in the Pakistani province of Baluchistan who have crossed into Afghanistan to fight. Siddiqullah said they move from village to village through the bleak mountains of this rugged region, sometimes walking for days seeking opportunities to attack U.S. troops and forces loyal to President Mohammed Karzai.
Members of the Taliban say that their renewed campaign follows a reorganization carried out by three regional commanders earlier this year, on the orders of the movement’s one-eyed spiritual leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar — who, along with Osama bin Laden, remains at large.
Responding to the call, Mullah Dadullah Kakar, a one-legged veteran of the war against the Russians, and Maulvi Sadiq Hameed traveled to the madrassas, or religious schools, in Baluchistan, to recruit students.
The third Taliban commander, Hafiz Majeed, garnered support from the tribal chieftains and elders in southern Afghanistan.
Mullah Dadullah has fought the allies since the Taliban regime was driven from Kabul, Kandahar and Afghanistan’s other main cities. As one of Mullah Omar’s most trusted lieutenants, he escaped to Pakistan, where he was sheltered by Kakar tribesmen in Baluchistan.
"The tribesmen not only gave him shelter but also bought him a Land Cruiser and gave him huge amounts of money," said a Taliban fighter. Later, when they realized he might be arrested in Baluchistan, the tribesmen moved Mullah Dadullah to a house in Karachi — Pakistan’s biggest city — which is dominated by affluent businessmen of the same Pashtun ethnic group as the Taliban.
Subsequently, Mullah Dadullah, accompanied by religious scholars from Afghanistan, visited dozens of religious schools in Pakistan’s tribal areas to lecture students and deliver instructions on jihad from Mullah Omar.
While hundreds have already joined the fight, Taliban leaders claim that many more religious students from Pakistan are ready to go.
In the past 15 days alone, about 150 people — including Afghan troops, policemen and civilians — have been killed in southern Afghanistan.
The most significant attack came when 400 Taliban militia reportedly captured one of the districts of Zabul province for a few hours, killing 29 government soldiers and hoisting a Taliban flag. They used the loudspeakers of mosques to warn residents not to cooperate with U.S. forces or the government.
Posted by: seafarious || 09/08/2003 3:16:54 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  In Allah they trust. All others pay cash.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/08/2003 15:37 Comments || Top||

#2  Just like the Israelis are doing, Mullah Dadullah (how alliterative!)needs a dirt nap.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/08/2003 15:44 Comments || Top||

#3  It's becoming more and more apparent every day that Pakistan needs a good hosing down. Start by shutting down the madrasses and hanging the "sheiks" and "imams" that run them. Follow it up with a thorough, house-by-house search for a one-eyed man, and hang all you find. Whack anybody that objects with a BIIIGG stick. Flush, rinse, and flush again, just for good measure. Create a separate homeland for the Pushtuns, and put up a 20-foot high electrified barbed wire fence around it, with a 40-foot, broken-glass-lined ditch just outside. It shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks to start noticing the difference in the world.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 15:50 Comments || Top||

#4  Can we somehow encourage Chinese men to seek Pakistani wives?
Posted by: Dishman || 09/08/2003 16:22 Comments || Top||

#5  If these guys are willing to be cannon fodder, oblige them. Fertilize the soil of Afghanistan with their remains.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/08/2003 18:25 Comments || Top||

#6  "Sarbaz" — those who care nothing for their own lives

Always wondered what Mork was talking about.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 19:58 Comments || Top||

#7  A one legged mullah named Dadullah
Ran a little jihad in Zabul-lah
When he finally came aware
There were no virgins there
He hopped all the way back to Kabul-lah
Posted by: john || 09/08/2003 21:01 Comments || Top||


U.S. General Sees Taliban in Afghanistan
Taliban fighters, paid and trained by al-Qaida, are pouring into Afghanistan from Pakistan, the top American commander in Afghanistan said Sunday.
What a suprise, well no, not really.
Lt. Gen. John Vines said the Taliban were trying to regroup and regain control of the country they ruled until ousted by the United States in late 2001. His comments to reporters traveling with Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld were the first confirmation from a top U.S. military official of reports of a Taliban resurgence out of Pakistan into Afghanistan. American, Afghan and coalition forces have responded with military operations against the radical Islamic fighters. As many as 200 Taliban have been killed this week alone, Vines said. "They have been attempting to (regroup) for nine months," Vines said. "Every time, we’ve disrupted them, we’ve interdicted them, we’ve denied them sanctuary, and we’ve killed them." Vines said perhaps as many as 1,000 Taliban were in and around the area. "They’re attempting to regain power," Vines said. "They’ve been attempting to do that for a year and a half."
They’re gonna keep trying as long as they have a safe haven.
American military officials have indications the recent Taliban resurgence is spurred in part by operatives of the al-Qaida network, who have been giving the Taliban training and funding. Apparently frustrated with the Taliban’s lack of success, their al-Qaida sponsors have urged the Taliban on or risk losing al-Qaida’s support. Vines called it a ``use it or lose it’’ ultimatum from Osama bin Laden’s network.
That’s interesting, maybe they are running short of money and personnel. Mounting operations in both Afghanistan and Iraq must be a major drain on resources. They may need something they can show as a success in order to keep the contributions and volunteers coming.

Their most recent success is a couple hundred deaders, an expenditure of 14,400 doe-eyed virgins. The number of Paks involved should be the subject of intense scrutiny on the part of the intel guys, as well as their points of origin and affiliation with fundo parties. It's pretty evident that since the fundos took legislative control of NWFP and Balochistan they've turned them into Little Afghanistans and provide routine protection for them. This is a dangerous game for the Paks to play — and I've no doubt they're playing it (See today's article on the Tablighi Jamaat). I don't suppose the ISI/Fundo establishment cares particularly about a proxy invasion of Afghanistan being seen as an act of war by the Afghans, but they should be thinking seriously of the implications of an act of war against the U.S.

Now that I think about it, what better mechanism to unite the fractious Afghans than a national jihad against NWFP and Balochistan? With a bit of help from the U.S., the festivities could let off quite a bit of national steam...
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 10:01:05 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Memories - Cambodia 1969.
Everybody knew the NVA and VC relied on sanctuaries and supply lines across the border. And that the Prince was only reluctantly cooperating. So we ended up with Lon Nol, a more enthusiastic anticommunist, who let us go after the VC and NVA as wished. But we werent willing to occupy Cambodia indefinitely - not when we were trying to gradually withdraw from VN. So we ultimately lost Cambodia as well as VN.

WE can't push Perv to do to much, not until we're able and ready to take on Pakland. A much more daunting prospect than running Iraq, by far.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/08/2003 16:10 Comments || Top||


U.S. raises total of dead rebels in recent Afghan battles to 200
EFL/FU:
Over the past two weeks, U.S. troops in Afghanistan have conducted their deadliest operations in a year against suspected Taliban forces infiltrating from Pakistan and attempting to regain power, according to the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan. As many as 200 enemy fighters have been killed since the operation in the southeastern part of the country began Aug. 25, Army Lt. Gen. John Vines said. That is twice the number of casualties that had previously been reported. The operation has resulted in more enemy killed in action than any operation in a year, said Col. Rodney Davis, a spokesman.
And you’d never know about it reading the "major" media.
The U.S. military said that at least 84 enemy fighters were killed Saturday in the southern province of Zabul. Officials said Sunday that hundreds of Afghan troops are preparing for a new offensive.
Cool, keep the pressure up.

Haqqani and Mansoor are reputed to be leading the Talibs. They're renowned jihadis — though Lord knows what they're renowned for. It can't be actually winning battles or inflicting casualties on an enemy. Perhaps it's their piety.
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 9:35:45 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I don't know if a body count is necessary. I like when they just disappear.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 9:48 Comments || Top||

#2  Not enough and kudos to the Afghan troops.

They're lean, they're getting mean and they've got 10 years to make up.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 10:06 Comments || Top||

#3  Instead of reporting this good news, we're hearing about Warren Zevon dying of cancer.

I don't even know who Warren Zevon is! Give me my EKIA reports, and don't leave out any juicy details!
Posted by: Charles || 09/08/2003 13:53 Comments || Top||

#4  Don't know Zevon??? "Carmelita"? "Poor poor pitiful me"? "I'll sleep when I'm dead"? "Werewolves of London"? it's a huge loss
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 14:21 Comments || Top||

#5  "Roland The Headless Thompson Gunner" and "Lawyers, Guns And Money" are my favorites. He'll be missed.
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 14:30 Comments || Top||

#6  Steve - Roland "from the land of the midnight sun" is a classic as are so many other lesser known songs...missed is right
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 14:48 Comments || Top||


Arabia
Saudi Sought by FBI Wanted in Homeland
One of the Saudi men the FBI has linked to possible terror threats against America also appears on a Saudi list of militants connected to the May suicide bombings in Riyadh, a Saudi Interior Ministry official said Sunday.
Hey! Wotta coincidence!
The FBI issued a worldwide alert Friday for four men linked to al-Qaida, including a suspected terror cell leader and an avowed suicide attacker, following new intelligence indicating they might be plotting attacks against the United States. Zubayr al-Rimi, 29, a Saudi native, was among the four men and Saudi authorities identified a photo of him as being that of Sultan Jubran Sultan al-Qahtani, a Saudi Interior Ministry official said. The FBI bulletin said al-Qahtani was an alias for al-Rimi. The Saudi official said that al-Qahtani is believed to be his real name.
Assuming he has one. They might all be aliases...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/08/2003 00:29 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Down Under
Aussie customs computer system theft points to terrorist infiltration
On the night of Wednesday, August 27, two men dressed as computer technicians and carrying tool bags entered the cargo processing and intelligence centre at Sydney International Airport. The men, described as being of Pakistani-Indian-Arabic appearance,
Racial profiling again.....but as dennis miller says, "when you notice 14 of 19 hijackers all come from the same place, thats not profiling -its minimally observant"
took a lift to the third floor of the Charles Ulm building in Link Road, next to the customs handling depot and the Qantas Jet Base. They presented themselves to the security desk as technicians sent by Electronic Data Systems, the outsourced customs computer services provider which regularly sends people to work on computers after normal office hours.
File under - "overseas outsourcing,risks of"
After supplying false names and signatures, they were given access to the top-security mainframe room. They knew the room’s location and no directions were needed.
really? and how did they know that?
Inside, they spent two hours
unsupervised- on raised floor, I find this amazing.
disconnecting two computers, which they put on trolleys and wheeled out of the room, past the security desk, into the lift and out of the building.
two specific computers, not just the ones right next to the doors. I wonder why they picked these?
The brazen theft has prompted Australia’s top security agencies to conduct emergency damage audits amid fears that terrorists may have gained access to highly sensitive intelligence from the computers.
Lets all try to remember that although the average terrorist can't hit a damn thing with his rifle marksmanship, they are not dumb. stupid yes, but not dumb.
The Australian Federal Police and ASIO, the two chief guardians against terrorism, fired off angry memos to customs officials, demanding to know the extent to which their top-secret operations have been compromised.
To: Aussie Customs
From: Aussie Cop Shoppe
Gentlemen:
Who the hell's handling your security? The Filipinos?
Sincerely,
The Cops
Lets assume the worst. Please go to www.google.com and look up "german enigma machine-bletchley park"
The Australian Customs Service has admitted the security blunder, but told customs officers in an email that no sensitive operational information was lost.
"Nope. Nope. Never happened. None. Nope..."
This brought angry rebuttals from customs officers who claimed that the two mainframe servers held thousands of confidential files, including top-secret communications between customs investigators and the AFP and ASIO.
"Well, hardly any then... Not many thousands... It was only a few... And some of them were old...
They point to the fact that all officers have been instructed to change passwords which give them access to the system, but a spokesman for the Customs Minister, Chris Ellison, said this was a "precautionary measure". The theft is being investigated by the AFP, which is conducting 65 counter-terrorist operations against nationalist groups in Australia and international terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda and Jemaah Islamiah. Customs officers believe the thieves had inside information because they knew how to bypass security, how to identify themselves and where to go, plus the fact that the mainframe room was regularly entered after hours for maintenance.
bingo.....now, what was the name of that guy we let go last month, mohammed what-his-name.......
The Community and Public Sector Union, which represents customs officers, has asked for guarantees that none of its members is at risk as a result of the theft.
Ohfergawdsake.
The union expressed fears that the lives of undercover agents could be jeopardised after officers claimed that customs officials were covering up the true extent of the damage. Also at risk, they said, are operations against terrorists and international drug cartels in which customs officers watch the movements of suspects and suspicious cargo in and out of the country.
One tactic is to let the indivdual customs agents know that their home addresses are know to the terror community. You'd be surprised how helpful that is in getting your contraband in and out without any hassle.
They stressed that terrorists had the most to gain by stealing the servers. "The servers have no value except the information they contain," an officer said.
he says this like its no big deal. information is power, you meathead!
"They would have personal internal email accounts, probably the passwords for those accounts, and any information harboured within them. Customs officers use the accounts to communicate volumes of sensitive operational material and intelligence to each other, including information from other agencies such as AFP and ASIO. This would be at risk."
... he said, with characteristic understatement.
The spokesman for Senator Ellison said: "Extensive testing of the system is being carried out to determine whether it has been compromised by the theft. No evidence has emerged to indicate that there has been any intrusion. Customs has been advised that the servers did not contain personal, business-related or national security information.
"Nothin' but junk files, really..."
"Nevertheless, arrangements were made to change all staff passwords as a precautionary measure. All staff have been asked to report any irregularities in their access arrangements to the system. As the matter is subject to an ongoing investigation, it is inappropriate to comment further. Although there is no evidence of an intrusion, Senator Ellison has called for a full report." A spokeswoman for the Attorney-General, Daryl Williams, who is responsible for ASIO, said: "This is an issue for customs. It is not a national security issue."
bullshit detector just went into the red.....
Damn! The needle on my BSD bent right around the peg!

Posted by: Frank Martin || 09/08/2003 1:42:34 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  If they are mainframes then they are not particularly useful for cracking code or designing
bombs. Mainframes have not superpowerful processors, what they have is the ability to drive LOTS of peripherals and have HUGE I/O bandwidth.
Posted by: JFM || 09/08/2003 15:00 Comments || Top||

#2  Doesn't smell like terrorists to me. Sounds like smugglers that service drug cartels and terrorists.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 15:00 Comments || Top||

#3  BSD is flashing, making "whoop-whoop" sound again, maybe we better shut it off, eh?

You'd think SOMEBODY would've noticed when the systems went down. There any operations staff anywhere?

I sure as hell don't let external contractors start pulling under-floor cables and jacking up units on MY floor, boys. They don't even go anywhere unsupervised. And that's AFTER a security check.

I think somebody needs a new gig.
Posted by: mojo || 09/08/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||

#4  These two computers are somewhere in Pushtunistan, where Mahmoud "The Tech" is trying to set them up. I wonder: does Mahmoud hail from the Arabian peninsula, Baghdad, Tehran or Cairo?
Posted by: Steve White || 09/08/2003 16:38 Comments || Top||

#5  Tell Mahmoud to call Stevey at the Help Desk: 1 800 ASSHOLE. He should be able to help him out... if he's not too busy "moking meed".
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/08/2003 17:01 Comments || Top||

#6  Hey, what's up with this? Them Aussies have cameras all over the damned place, so these guys should've been caught on tape. Right? RIGHT?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/08/2003 18:12 Comments || Top||


Europe
US-Iraqi man on trial in Germany on weapons charges
A 60-year-old Iraqi-US dual national went on trial Monday in Mannheim on charges of involvement in an illegal weapons deal with Iraq. The trial follows up on one last January of two Germans from the same company who were found guilty for their involvement in selling to Iraq high-precision drills used for making barrels for artillery. One man was given a five-year, three-month jail term and the other a two-year suspended term. The Iraqi-US suspect is also answering charges of circumventing German weapons exports laws in connection with those deals. Prosecutors say the suspect, as the owner of two companies in Jordan, served as a middle man for arms deals with Iraq. At the trial start, the man denied any involvement in the deals and said prosecutors had presented no solid evidence against him. His defence counsel said delivery of drilling equipment was neither planned nor carried out by the defendant.
"It was, ummm....somebody else".
Posted by: seafarious || 09/08/2003 1:44:46 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I bet they won't give him back to the US for questioning.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 15:03 Comments || Top||


Italy Study Sees Al Qaeda Link to Human Trafficking
EFL/FU
By Luke Baker
Italy’s secret services say they see increasing evidence militant groups such as al Qaeda are moving into the smuggling of illegal immigrants, a billion dollar trade they can use to fund other activities.
And to move their own people around, of course...
An intelligence report released at the weekend says "terror networks" and groups who traffic in illegal immigrants share a natural overlap, often relying on false documents and intricate logistics, transport and communication setups. "There is the fear, too, that the same routes used for illegal immigration are being used by militants to help form Islamic terrorist groups," says the report, compiled by Cesis, which coordinates the work of Italy’s secret services.
They also hold up liquor stores for spot cash, just like another set of crooks. No surprise here.
The document comes just days before senior EU ministers are due to gather in Rome for an informal meeting to discuss immigration and terrorism-related issues. Italy’s Interior minister, who held talks with U.S. Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge at the weekend, told reporters ahead of that meeting that he thought al Qaeda was increasingly involved in the multibillion dollar illegal immigration trade. "Illegal immigration is a filter for drug trafficking, arms and terrorism," Giuseppe Pisanu said. "It is highly likely that al Qaeda has worked its way into the trafficking, managing the flow of illegal immigrants from Muslim countries. In such a way, al Qaeda can diversify its sources of funding and evade intelligence gatherers." The Italian intelligence report gave no specific examples.
Do we need any?
The United States has taken vigorous measures to cut off the flow of funds to al Qaeda since the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington. But intelligence analysts say the group is constantly looking for new sources and channels.
But done little to stem our own monstrous illegal immigration problem.
We won't, because it's a political problem involving contested voting blocs, until we start getting a significant mix of Señor Turbans among the prospective tomato pickers. Then there will be mutual finger-pointing and recriminations as we're trying to identify the bodies in St. Paul or Little Rock.
While there has so far been little evidence to suggest that al Qaeda or other groups are involved in illegal immigration, the new secret services report will fuel concerns. Pisanu estimated that around 500,000 illegal immigrants make their way into Europe each year, paying on average $4,000 for their passage, giving the industry a rough turnover of at least two billion euros a year.
Our own southern border sees as many as a million illegal immigrants a year flowing across, and the northern border could be equally as porous. Most Canadians, however, aren’t really interested in slipping across the border illegaly, since we make it easy for them to enter the US, work, and do whatever else they wish to do short of criminal activity.
Smuggling of people into Italy has traditionally been the work of gangs from eastern Europe, but in recent years the routes have shifted to North Africa, with Libya and Tunisia now the focus of Italian attempts to stem the tide of arrivals. With most illegal immigrants looking to make their way to France, Germany and Britain to seek work, tackling the flow has become a Europe-wide issue. The European Union is seeking to forge a unified policy to confront the problem.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 11:36:23 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Would it be more effective to combine border patrol with the Coast Guard?
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 12:26 Comments || Top||

#2  Damn right it would. The Coast Guard should be running the show on homeland security. If one front in this HOT war is our homeland then this is a military operation. Time for the Coast Guard to become as effective a fighting force as the Air Force. Time to stop treating homeland security as a federal jobs program. UCMJ and homeland security, Yep!
Posted by: Lucky || 09/08/2003 13:22 Comments || Top||

#3  Take a look at the way that the Coast Guard handles eco-terrorists. I found the article at Human Events. I wonder what the Green Peace guy was thinking the result would be with his high speed Xodiac approach to a wooden canoe filled with Native American whalers. The Coast Guard did him a favor as he must not have ever heard of a harpoon before.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 15:08 Comments || Top||

#4  The Coast Guard needed to finish the job by having a Captain's Mast aboard the Coast Guard ship, followed by 10 lashes or so with the Cat-o-9's followed by a little Morton salt on the wounds for theatrical effect. Then she may go. Heh heh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/08/2003 15:54 Comments || Top||

#5  Why did they bother to rescue her? Let her reap the reward she deserves - being lunch for a rather large, nasty-tempered Orca. Either that or be food for little fishies at the bottom of a mile or so of water.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 16:07 Comments || Top||

#6  I still would have waved her by to see how whe did against harpoon. It would have been a classic struggle of a modern person against an aboriginal people steeped in tradition. Maybe they would have even been wearing traditional garb. Probably would have damaged the canoe though. Coast Guard did the right thing ..except the rescue part. After being sued they will know better next time.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 16:14 Comments || Top||

#7  The main problem with the U.S.immigration laws is that they are a laughingstock. The BCIS/INS uses a 'catch and release' policy when it does catch an illegal immigrants ("I'll let you know if you promise to go back to your own country..." "Ok officer... I'll be a good boy from now on.." (but my fingers are crossed..) ).

I just been thru sponsoring someone (my wife) for an legal visa and immigration. She had to go through extensive background checks a medical exam and vaccinations, and provide 'Police Certificates' from her country of origin and any country she lived in for the past 10 years showing that she has not been arrested or charged with any crime before she even received the Visa. In this case the process took several months (for an Fiancee visa which is much faster then most others). Other types of immigration visa's can take years for even the petition to be approved.

Illlegal aliens dont have to do any of these and often congress extends them amnisty(sp?) (pay $1000 and you can apply for adjustment of status to legal resident right now.. no waiting like those suckers who are doing things legally...).

Did you know that if you sponser a LEGAL immigrant (often someone who has waited months or years for background checks and their 'turn' to come up) you have to sign a legally-enforcable affadavit of support. That if they (the legal immigrant) claim certain federal benefits such as welfare or medical the feds can come after *you* for reimbersement. An illegal alien gets it all for free.

I have to pay for my wife's medical, and dental while an illegal alien gets it all for free. I am not complaining that I have to pay but that they get it for free.

I'm sorry but if they are here illegally then they are here ILLEGALLY (i.e. in VIOLATION OF OUR FEDERAL LAWS and should get no non-humanitarian benefits such as non-life-threatening medical, dental, food stamps, or schools. They are I-L-L-E-G-A-L.

And local and state governments (Like Seattle and California) who refuse to enforce federal immigration laws should not receive any federal funding -- period.

Ok... rant over..
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/08/2003 19:57 Comments || Top||

#8  CF---The witholding of Federal Funding (G-d witholding his love so to speak) is an excellent angle in getting the states in line. Then the Feds have to grow some cojones to go after the illegals crossing the border.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/08/2003 20:28 Comments || Top||

#9  AP - Tom Tancredo (R-Colorado) is proposing a bill to cut off all Fed transportation funds to states allowing illegals to get Driver's Licenses - although this would be a real career kick in the head for me, I totally support this
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 22:16 Comments || Top||


Several Dead in Macedonia Militant Hunt
Macedonian police clashed with ethnic Albanian militants in the volatile north Sunday, and reported killing several men in what they said was a major sweep against groups that threaten the Balkan country's fragile peace. Special police units backed by the army conducted the operation against the militants near the village of Brest, 12 miles north of the capital Skopje. "Several members of the armed group died during the operation," the statement said. It did not specify how many, but said government security forces suffered no casualties. In a statement posted in its Web site, a shadowy ethnic Albanian group, the Albanian National Army, said two members of its group and one civilian were killed.
No baby ducks? They need a new propagandist.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/08/2003 00:36 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Why doesn't anyone call "ethnic" Albanians what they really are? MOSLEMS!
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 7:56 Comments || Top||

#2  Anonymous: More specifically, separatist Muslims. Anyone see a trend?
Posted by: BH || 09/08/2003 11:19 Comments || Top||


Fifth Column
World Council of Churches calls for war-crimes probe of U.S.
EFL/FU --- From WND:
The World Council of Churches Politburo Central Committee meeting in Geneva approved a resolution deploring the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and urging the United Nations to investigate Saddam Hussein’s crimes as well as any "war crimes" committed by "occupying powers," including the "illegal resort to war."
"Damn those Imperialists... uhh... Merkins! If they had a regime that actually cared about human rights, like that nice Mr. Castro does, this wouldn't have happened!"
The action last week by the largest but shrinking ecumenical church coalition in the world was criticized by the Institute on Religion and Democracy. "The WCC here is showcasing the same moral blindness it showed for years during the Cold War, when it repeatedly was unable to distinguish the democratic West from the Communist bloc," said Diane Knippers, president of the IRD. "Of course, Christians can disagree about the best means of dealing with a tyrant and aggressor like Saddam Hussein. But this Central Committee statement equates the liberators of Iraq with those who murdered, raped, imprisoned and robbed from millions of Iraqis for decades. Such a vacuous attempt at moral equivalence is, in fact, immoral."
"Vacuous" is certainly an apt description when applied to the WCC...
The WCC bills itself as "the broadest and most inclusive among the many organized expressions of the modern ecumenical movement, a movement whose goal is Christian unity." The WCC represents more than 340 churches, denominations and church fellowships in 100 countries and territories throughout the world.
Actually, I believe it represents their heirarchies, and the congregation members ("collection plate fodder") either don't realize it or don't realize what it does.
Members of the WCC Central Committee include representatives from major U.S. denominations such as the United Methodist Church, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopal Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church and others. At the meeting last week, the WCC reaffirmed "its conviction that the war on Iraq was immoral, ill-advised and in breach of the principles of the UN Charter." The Central Committee condemned "the invasion and occupation of Iraq by foreign forces as an act of aggression in violation of the United Nations Charter and International Law."
"Things were ever so much better when Sammy was in charge!"
In addition, it "requests the relevant UN mechanisms to promptly investigate, gather any evidence of violations of human rights of the previous regime, war crimes and crimes against humanity, violations of international humanitarian law including the illegal resort to war, and to prosecute all such crimes." The WCC also deplored the "invasion and occupation of Iraq by foreign forces as an act of aggression" in violation of international law, urged the occupying powers to pay "reparations" to the Iraqi people, and called for the "immediate" withdrawal of the occupiers.
The WCC is about the looniest bunch of wackos in the bunch, even too far left for Berkeley. You have to wonder what God they actually follow, or if they even still consider themselves "afilliated" with God.

I think of them as the Christians who're convinced Christ is never coming back, a symptom of intellectual rot, which seems to pervade the entire ecumenical movement. There was an Episcopalian bishop on O'Reilly a few weeks ago, who point out that, sure the Bible can be interpreted as disapproving of homosexuality, but there are many sources to consult, among them our own hearts. However black they may be...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 11:45:30 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Investigate Saddam's crimes? Here's a shovel. Start digging and stop when you find a Kurdish child's body.
Posted by: Matt || 09/08/2003 11:53 Comments || Top||

#2  I saw a representitive of the WCC during the Elian Gonzales fiasco. She was one creepy old lady. They were in Castro's corner then. She kept making mind-meld glances at the camera. Reminded me of someone who would do seances for ninteenth century widows.
Posted by: Lucky || 09/08/2003 13:35 Comments || Top||

#3  Why don't we send these morons a map of Sudan or North Korea?
Posted by: Greg || 09/08/2003 13:44 Comments || Top||

#4  WCC Central Committee include representatives from major U.S. denominations such as ... the Evangelical Lutheran Church and others.

Ugh. Maybe this will be the week I finally switch to Missouri Synod.
Posted by: eLarson || 09/08/2003 14:26 Comments || Top||

#5  The organization's full name is
World Council of Churches Hardly Anybody Goes to Any More.
Only the main-line (now side-line) liberal protestant churches in this country (who are themselves catastrophically downsizing) pay the WCC or its local equivalent, the National Council of Churches Hardly Anybody Goes to Any More, any attention at all.
They're the biggest bunch of yawners since the actuaries' convention.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey || 09/08/2003 15:12 Comments || Top||

#6  Oh look. They've got a "Central Committee". How about a "Politburo"? Or is it the same thing?
Lucky: I remember that creepy bitch during the Elian thing. As I remember, I always saw her coming down the stairs of the WCC's private jet.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/08/2003 15:35 Comments || Top||

#7  Yup, it's not Christian to keep people from being fed into plastic shredders. And teenage Iraqi girls really dug Uday for his personal qualities. You betcha.
Posted by: Baba Yaga || 09/08/2003 16:52 Comments || Top||

#8  This is why I'm a Christian, but don't go to church or is affiliated with one.

It's follow the Bishop or you're a sinner. They're always right because they have God backing them.

Ugh, I think even God is about ready to strike them down with the 'ten plagues'.
Posted by: Charles || 09/08/2003 17:20 Comments || Top||

#9  "NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again."
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/08/2003 20:28 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
Sharon to Visit India today
JPost - Reg Req’d; Heartburn for the Pakis...heh heh
Despite a cold that kept him home sick for a week, and the heightened tension of the last two days, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is to travel to India today.
See, Yassin? You weren’t the only one feeling down this weekend
The three-day visit will be the first ever by an Israeli prime minister, and is meant to demonstrate the strength of the relationship as well as give a push to further defense, cultural, and trade ties. Sharon will be accompanied Justice Minister Yosef Lapid, Education Minister Limor Livnat, and Agriculture Minister Yisrael Katz, 30 of the country’s leading businessmen, and Defense Ministry Director-General Amos Yaron. He is to meet Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh, and Defense Minister George Fernandes, as well as Sonia Gandhi, head of the opposition Congress Party. He will be going both to New Delhi and Bombay.
Two cities noted for their occasional colorful explosions...
Zvi Gabai, the Foreign Ministry’s deputy-director for Asia, said four different bilateral agreements are to be signed on environmental issues, health issues, fighting drug trafficking, and visa waivers for those carrying diplomatic passports. Non-military trade between India and Israel has grown from some $200 million when full diplomatic ties were established in 1992 to an estimated $1.6 billion this year. The military component of the relationship numbers which neither side is willing to divulge add hundreds of millions of dollars to this figure each year.
Nuke missiles capable of reaching NWFP would be nice...
Israel, according to a number of unconfirmed reports, has turned into India’s second largest arms supplier, after Russia. One Israeli official said India has supplanted Turkey as the biggest market for Israel’s arms industry. It is widely expected that final details of the $1.2b. sale of three Phalcon airborne early-warning radar systems will be finalized during this visit.
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 10:37:31 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Background of Tablighi Jamaat
This paper deals with the Tablighi Jamaat (TJ), which is the mother of all the Pakistan-based jehadi organisations active not only in the CARs, Chechnya and Dagestan, but also in other parts of the world. In an investigative report carried by the "News" (February 13,1995), Mr. Kamran Khan, the well-known Pakistani journalist, brought to light for the first time the nexus between the TJ and the HUM and their role in supporting Islamic extremist movements in different countries. He quoted unidentified office-bearers of the HUM as saying as follows: "Ours is basically a Sunni organisation close to the Deobandi school of thought. Our people are mostly impressed by the TJ. Most of our workers do come from the TJ. We regularly go to its annual meeting at Raiwind. Ours is a truly international network of genuine jehadi Muslims. We believe frontiers can never divide Muslims. They are one nation. They will remain a single entity. We try to go wherever our Muslim brothers are terrorised, without any monetary consideration. Our colleagues went and fought against oppressors in Bosnia, Chechnya, Tajikistan, Burma, the Philippines and, of course, India. Although Pakistani members are not participating directly in anti-Government armed resistance in Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia and Jordan, many of the fighters in those Arab States had remained our colleagues during the Afghan war and we know one another very well. We are doing whatever we can to help them install Islamic governments in those States."

The February 1998, issue of the "Newsline", a monthly of Pakistan, quoted workers of the TJ as saying that the TJ had many offices in the US, Russia, the Central Asian Republics, South Africa, Australia and France and that many members of the Chechen Cabinet, including the Deputy Prime Minister of Chechnya, were workers of the TJ and participated in its proselytising activities. One of them, merely identified as Khalil, said: "It is possible that France may become a Muslim state within my lifetime, due to the great momentum of Tablighi activity there."

Dr.Jassim Taqui, an Islamic scholar, wrote in the "Frontier Post" of Peshawar of January 15, 1999, as follows:

* The TJ has been able to establish contacts and centres throughout the Muslim world.

* It has thousands of dedicated and disciplined workers who never question any order from the high-ups. What has helped the TJ to expand (without creating alarm in the security agencies) is its policy of a deliberate black-out of its activities. It does not interact with the media and does not issue any statements or communiques. It believes in human communication through word of mouth.

* During its training classes, it claims to have frustrated the efforts of the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to penetrate it and succeeded in converting the CIA agents to Islam.

* The TJ claims that it never accepts money from anybody and that all its workers who volunteer to go on preaching mission have to spend their own money.

* Even though the TJ claims to be apolitical and disinterested in political or administrative influence, many of its active members have come to occupy important positions. Examples are Lt.Gen. (retd) Javed Nasir, who was the DG of the ISI during Mr.Nawaz Sharif’s first tenure as the Prime Minister, and Mr.Mohammad Rafique Tarar, the former President of Pakistan, who has been an active worker of the TJ for many years.

In September-October, 1995, the Pakistani army, acting on a tip-off from the then Maj.Gen.Ali Quli Khan Khattak, who was then the Director-General of Military Intelligence and who was subsequently superseded by Mr.Sharif in October, 1998, and forced into retirement, arrested a group of 36 army officers and 20 civilians led by Maj.Gen. Zaheerul Islam Abbasi on a charge of plotting, in association with the TJ and the HUM, to have Mrs.Benazir Bhutto, the then Prime Minister, and senior army officers killed and proclaim the formation of an Islamic state.

Amongst the organisations in the USA with which the TJ is closely associated are the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) and the Muslim Youth of North America (MYNA).The President of the ISNA is Sheikh Abdullah Idris Ali, an American immigrant of Sudanese origin, who is also the Pesh Imam and Khatib of a mosque in New York. The annual convention of the ISNA held at Columbus, Ohio, from September 11, 1995, was addressed, amongst others, by Mr.Hamza Yusuf, an American citizen of Greek origin, who, after embracing Islam, had lived for six years in Mauritania to study Islam and then work as a TJ preacher, Mr. Yusuf Islam, formerly known as Cat Stevens, the famous pop singer, who embraced Islam after coming into contact with the TJ in Pakistan, Dr.Saghir of Algeria, and Dr.Israr Ahmed, the Amir of the Tanzeem Islami of Pakistan and a worker of the TJ. Addressing the convention, Dr. Israr Ahmed said: "The process of the revival of Islam in different parts of the world is real. A final show-down between the Muslim world and the non-Muslim world, which has been captured by the Jews, would soon take place. The Gulf war was just a rehearsal for the coming conflict." He appealed to the Muslims of the world, including those in the USA, to prepare themselves for the coming conflict.

In its preachings to the Pakistani immigrants in the US, the TJ has been stressing the importance of cultivating the African-American Muslims in order to counter the lobbying power of the Hindus and the Jewish people. The HUM, which works in tandem with the TJ, has been training African-American Muslims from the US in its training camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Writing in the "Dawn" of January 12,1996, Mr. Ghani Eirabie said: " The Ummah must remember that winning over the black Muslims is not only a religious obligation, but also a selfish necessity. The votes of the black Muslims can give the immigrant Muslims the political clout they need at every stage to protect their vital interests. Likewise, outside Muslim states like Saudi Arabia, Malaysia and Pakistan need to mobilise their effort, money and missionary skills to expand and consolidate the black Muslim community in the USA, not only for religious reasons, but also as a far-sighted investment in the black Muslims’ immense potential as a credible lobby for Muslim causes, such as Palestine, Bosnia or Kashmir--offsetting, at least partially, the venal influence of the powerful India-Israel lobby."

Since Pakistani Government service conduct rules do not prohibit serving Government servants from participating in the activities of the TJ, after his appointment by Mr.Sharif as the DG of the ISI, Lt.Gen.Nasir continued to function simultaneously as Adviser to the TJ and, after his removal from the ISI under US pressure in 1993, he took over as the full-time leader of the TJ. It was during his tenure as the DG of the ISI that Lt.Gen.Nasir, in his capacity as Adviser to TJ, drew up the plans for the revival of Islam in the CARs, Chechnya and Dagestan in Russia and Xinjiang in China with the help of the TJ workers and funds from Saudi Arabia. A large number of Pakistani, Saudi and Jordanian workers of the TJ were sent on preaching and proselytising missions to these countries and recruits for clerical posts in these countries were brought to Pakistan for training in Islamic religious practices. Simultaneously, they were also given arms training in the camps of the HUM and the Lashkar in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 09/08/2003 1:35:13 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I wonder how prevalent these guys are throughout the ISI and even the Nation of Islam.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 7:54 Comments || Top||


Iraq
Bomb Attack in Iraq Wounds 2 U.S. Troops
From Yahoo
EFL/FU
By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer
(Means that salt may be necessary. Quantity is personal choice.)

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Breaking a lull in attacks on U.S. forces, insurgents set off a bomb that wounded two U.S. soldiers in Baghdad, while Britain said it would send 1,200 more troops to bolster coalition forces in Iraq (news - web sites).

Iraqi guerrillas attacked an American patrol in Baghdad with explosives as soldiers were driving out of a tunnel in the center of the city, the military said. The attack wounded two soldiers, damaged two Humvees, one of which turned over and caught fire.

There have been no reports of U.S. combat deaths in the last few days. On Sunday afternoon, military spokesman, Lt. Col. George Krivo, said the U.S. military had completed a 24-hour period in which no American soldiers had been killed or wounded. The near-daily attacks on American troops have become a serious problem for the Bush administration, and it has called for help from other countries to restore security.

Britain said Monday that it will send two additional battalions to Iraq, adding 1,200 troops to its forces on the ground. Britain has 11,000 troops in the country.

"We will immediately take steps ... to allow further deployments as rapidly as possible in response to this accelerating program of work," Defense Secretary Geoff Hoon told Parliament.

Some 120 servicemen were sent to Iraq from Cyprus over the weekend. The Ministry of Defense said they were included in the 1,200 troops whose deployment was announced Monday.

"This response is not a knee-jerk response to recent attacks. It’s part of a strategic plan to achieve the goals I have set out," Prime Minister Tony Blair’s official spokesman said.

Also Monday, the U.S. administrator for Iraq said that the United States had committed an unprecedented sum for rebuilding the country.

L. Paul Bremer’s remarks expanded on those of President George W. Bush, who said in a broadcast speech Sunday night that he would ask Congress for US$87 billion for the next fiscal year for the military occupation and reconstruction of Iraq. Of the total request, US$21 billion would go for rebuilding.

After a meeting with Iraq’s new Public Works Minister Nesreen Berwari, a Kurdish woman, Bremer promised the United States would not leave Iraq before its mission was complete.

"This is one of the largest nonmilitary budgets requested in American history," Bremer said. "It amounts to more than 10 times more than the United States has ever spent in a year in any country. It’s a clear, dramatic illustration of the fact that the American people are going to finish the job we started when we liberated Iraq some four months ago," the 61-year-old former counterterrorism expert said.

Before dawn Monday, more than 100 U.S. troops stormed houses in Saddam Hussein’s hometown of Tikrit, searching for Saddam loyalists accused of financing or coordinating attacks on American soldiers. Four wanted men were arrested, the military said.

Acting on tips from Iraqis detained in previous raids as well as intelligence sources, the troops stormed houses in downtown Tikrit almost simultaneously, catching the men asleep. The bloodless raid involved three companies from the 1st Battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment of the 4th Infantry Division in Humvees, Bradley fighting vehicles and 5-ton trucks.

"All those targeted were involved in attacks on coalition forces and government officials," said Lt. Col. Steve Russell, 1st Battalion commander. "The message we communicate is if you involve (yourself) in this type of activity, we will hunt you down or we will kill you."

Meanwhile, Iraq’s new Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari arrived in Cairo to try to claim his country’s seat at a meeting of ministers of the Arab League, which has been reluctant to recognize the legitimacy of Iraq’s U.S.-appointed Governing Council.

"This is our right. We are claiming our legitimate right to be here and to be represented," Zebari said at a news conference. "Our message is: We’re the representatives of de facto Iraqi authority."

Iraq’s seat on the pan-Arab group’s council of ministers has remained empty since Saddam Hussein’s ouster in April.

Amr Moussa, the league’s secretary-general, has hinted that the bloc may finally recognize the Governing Council as a legitimate government and include it in the 22-member organization. But he said the ministers must decide. They meet Tuesday and Wednesday.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 12:07:29 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Suspicion falls on Chechens for Iraqi blasts
Asia Times Online, so grab your salt. EFL:
There are indications that Arab nationals of Chechen origin belonging to al-Qaeda were responsible for the four explosions in Iraq recently - three in Baghdad and one at Najaf. The explosions in Baghdad were directed at the Jordanian Embassy, a building housing the offices of the United Nations and its allied organizations, and police headquarters. According to sources in Pakistan, which are well informed on the activities of the Osama bin Laden-led International Islamic Front (IIF), (They’re on his mailing list) about 50 Arab nationals of Chechen origin, who are members of al-Qaeda or closely associated with it, have infiltrated Iraq from the Waziristan area of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. They were responsible not only for the attacks on US soldiers in many incidents, but also for the four explosions. They reportedly received the explosives and other material for the explosions from the ordnance stocks of Saddam’s disbanded army. It is said that the explosions, using vehicles, closely resembled those that have taken place in Chechnya in the past.
Yeah, well, a truck bomb is a truck bomb is a truck bomb.
Elements close to the IIF in Pakistan have been saying that the United States is in a vulnerable position in Iraq at present and that if the jihadis miss this opportunity to humiliate it, they will not get another one for some time.
They hope.
They also say that by teaching the US a lesson in Iraq that it will not forget, they could protect other Islamic countries from similar intervention by the United States and weaken its credibility as a superpower.
Which is why the other countries are helping them.
The jihadis have been recalling the Beirut car-bomb attack against US marines in the early 1980s, which resulted in the death of more than 200, after which Ronald Reagan, then president of the United States, ordered a withdrawal of US troops from the Lebanon. It is reported that the jihadis are planning a similar massive explosion against US troops in Iraq, designed to cause a large number of casualties, possibly coinciding with the second anniversary of September 11, 2001.
We’ve learned since Beirut as well.
Many Chechens, whose ancestors left the Caucasus during the 1817-64 Caucasian war, now live in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Persian Gulf countries and have acquired the local nationality. A large number of them had joined the 6,000 plus jihadi mercenary force raised by the US Central Intelligence Agency through Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in the 1980s to fight against the Soviet troops and they fought in Afghanistan under bin Laden.
Mandatory "the CIA created the problem" sentence.
They maintained their links with bin Laden after the withdrawal of the Soviet troops from Afghanistan in 1988. Some of them were taken by bin Laden into his al-Qaeda and IIF and worked as instructors in training camps in Afghan territory. They were also used by the ISI for training the Taliban militia after 1994 and for assisting the Taliban in its fight against the Northern Alliance. Many others were sent to Chechnya by bin Laden after 1994 to assist the indigenous Chechen groups in their jihad against Moscow for an Islamic caliphate.
Interesting.
The author B Raman is additional secretary (retired), Cabinet Secretariat, government of India, and currently director, Institute for Topical Studies, Chennai; former member of the National Security Advisory Board of the government of India. He was also head of the counter-terrorism division of the Research & Analysis Wing, India’s external intelligence agency, from 1988 to August 1994.
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 11:42:28 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The author B Raman is additional secretary (retired), Cabinet Secretariat, government of India, and currently director, Institute for Topical Studies, Chennai; former member of the National Security Advisory Board of the government of India. He was also head of the counter-terrorism division of the Research & Analysis Wing, India’s external intelligence agency, from 1988 to August 1994.

The guy's an Indian Muslim who's been writing articles critical of the War on Terror for the longest time - after all, this is Asia Times we're talking about. I guess in Muslim circles, the word "Chechen" has taken on the mystique of the word "Gurkha" among people who think martial reputations mean anything. To our guys, Chechens pretty much die like the rest - they lost many men in Afghanistan, and they will lose a bunch in Iraq, if they are in fact there.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 11:51 Comments || Top||

#2  They also say that by teaching the US a lesson in Iraq that it will not forget, they could protect other Islamic countries from similar intervention by the United States and weaken its credibility as a superpower.
Conversely, as the United States grinds these sh$$bags into the dirt day after day, it will weaken the reputation of Al Qaida and the rest of the terror midgets, and enhance our reputation as a superpower.

Thank you for your cooperation. Here are another 10,000 body bags for you to take back to Chechnia, Pakistan, Iran, Soddy Rapia, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Libya, Sudan, et. al.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 12:23 Comments || Top||


Iraq militias warned of showdown
Iraq militias warned of showdown

The US-led coalition appeared yesterday headed for a showdown with Iraqi militias after giving them an ultimatum to lay down their arms that was immediately rejected by a leading anti-US firebrand.

Captain Edward Lofland, spokesman for the US Marines in this holy Shi’ite city, said coalition forces had given unauthorised militias until Saturday to disarm or have their weapons confiscated and face possible arrest.

A leading Shi’ite group, whose head was among 83 people killed in a massive car bombing nine days ago, gave qualified backing to the disarmament drive. But an aide to the cleric Moqtada Sadr dismissed it categorically.

"We obey only God and our religious leaders. We don’t care about what the Americans say," said Sheikh Juad Al Issawi, a member of Sadr’s office.

The presence of heavily-armed militia in Najaf and elsewhere has become a key issue in efforts to stabilise Iraq, which has been plagued by violence and lawlessness since Saddam Hussein was toppled.

Lofland said the deployment by the two largest Shi’’ite factions on the streets of Najaf and nearby Kufah since the car bombing here was a clear violation of the ban on militia imposed by the coalition in June.

He said they had until Saturday to surrender their weapons. "After that, we will take their arms away and, if they resist, we will arrest them and put them in jail," Lofland said.
He said the coalition would prefer the militia to disarm voluntarily and, in the second instance, would call upon Iraqi police. But in the last resort, he said: "We will not hesitate to disarm them by force if necessary."

Sedreddin Al Kubbanji, the Najaf chief of Hakim’s Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), agreed with the deadline but called on the coalition to clear more people protecting Muslim shrines and clerics.
"I think there is no problem in principle," Kubbanji said. "The principle is that those who carry the weapons should do so within the regulations and with licences."
Kubbanji also said that an assassination attempt on leading Shi’ite leader, Ayatollah Bashir Al Najafi, was foiled by the SCIRI.

A man was discovered in Najafi’s house on Saturday and confessed to being a member of Saddam’s Fedayeen and that he went there with the intention of assassinating the religious figure, Kubbanji said. He also confessed to previously killing two American soldiers in Baghdad.

US troops battling Saddam loyalists have struck an "unusually" quiet spell with no dead or wounded reported for 48 hours, a US military official said in Baghdad yesterday.
"In the last 48 hours there have not been any casualties. It has been unusually quiet."

He said no casualties meant no US personnel dead or wounded.

Posted by: Murat || 09/08/2003 4:37:31 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Super Hose,

Pardon me for the delay in answering, I had a few days off.

I got only a small taste of Turkey during my travelling days. I stopped in Izmir twice for a couple of weeks total. I enjoyed it very much and felt welcome there.

I am glad for you, my hometown is only 20 miles away from Izmir my favourite city.

. Here is my question for you: Should the Coalion be trying to encourage the Iraqi's to build a form of democracy that is culturally familiar to them rather than zeroing out their system and trying to build a western system from scratch? Are there elements of the Ottoman system that Turkey built its current governemtn on sucessfully that would be recognizable to the Iraqis? In your opinion would the coalition be better off using Turkish consultants to assist in nation building rather than trying to Yankify the place? I ask this because I read a good book called Somalia on 5 Dollars a Day by an officer in teh 10th mountain during the semi-sucessful portion of the Somali relief effort. The 10th mountain effort was sucessful by strengthening the existing tribal structure that had been surplanted by the war-lords.

That’s truckload of questions, first about democracy for Iraq, which will be a very difficult task especially because of all those tribes. The base on which Democracy rests are the laws, each person has the right to choose, live the life and perform the religion he/she likes. Every person can seek his/her rights and every person has his/her right of privacy etc. etc. Well as you can maybe feel, this is absolutely contra to the hierarchical society of a tribe, in which the tribe leader rules as a king. In most of the Kurdish and Arabic tribes, people cannot even marry the women/men they love without the permission of their tribe leader, let alone to speak about the rest of democratic rights. So, I would say to Yankify the place is impossible, how to dissolve the tribes and forge them in to a democratic society.

In your opinion would the coalition be better off using Turkish consultants to assist in nation building rather than trying to Yankify the place?

Well my personal opinion may be known to you already, I don’t see the occupation of Iraq as justified at the first place, but apart from that using consultancy from those who are more familiar with a tribal Iraq is better of course. For instance now Turkey and the US have agreed of sending Turkish ‘occupation aidpeacekeeping’ troops you can see how Turkey’s approach to the tribes are. Several leaders of the most influential tribes have been invited and received in Ankara, and the leaders have been consulted on their wishes and been asked for their cooperation. You have to see it like an approach of the white man to the Indian chief, insult the chief and the whole clan will be your enemy, make the chief your friend and the whole clan will like you. The US for instance arrested several tribal leaders including Sheikh Hatam Al-Assy Al-Obeidi, which is IMO a big fiasco, you’ve made whole tribes to your enemy. Take only the Arab Al Obeidi tribe which counts 500.000 people and realize how stupid it can be to turn halve a million people against you for insulting their tribal leader. I hope I have answered your question.
Posted by: Murat || 09/08/2003 4:39 Comments || Top||

#2  to Super Hose,

Iraqi pipeline blasts are as much about tribal politics as Saddam
Posted by: Murat || 09/08/2003 4:56 Comments || Top||

#3  realize how stupid it can be to turn halve a million people against you

Still, should the chief turn out to be a troublemaker, these 1/2 million people will have to decide whether it is worth dying for him. I'd be willing to bet some have IQs in the upper range and would prefer life over someone who wouldn't give a rats ass about them anyway.

Secondly, the key in Iraq is to provide opportunities for wealth and advancement (in other words, jobs). Give the Iraqis something to lose, should they choose the way of the AK47. They can keep their tribal loyalties. But how many will risk losing a job, for some tribal leader who tells them to go and fight? All of the sudden the 1/2 million becomes 1000.
Posted by: Rafael || 09/08/2003 5:27 Comments || Top||

#4  Murat,

I appreciate the thoughtful answer. Your response has helped me seperate in my mind the excesses of tribal society from the excesses of Taliban style fundementalist Islamic Political rule. Dowry killing for example would be inherent in tribalism and has nothing to do with Islam per say.
To form a peaceful relatively stable society in Iraq, strengthening the tribal structure would be a mistake. Adopting a tribal structure into the Electoral College, for instance, like Afghanistan has sort of done, will inhibit liberal democracy.

Murat,
I read some writing on Winds of Change by Tarek Heggy. In your opinion, Is this guy the real deal? He seems to agree with your view that Turkey (and his native Egypt) are good models for liberal Islamic societies.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 8:10 Comments || Top||

#5  I'm pleased that you are offering us thoughtful perspective, Murat. Educating us probably works better than taunting us. Likewise, educating those in the tribes probably works better than taunting the tribal leadership.

That said, I also have to note that we "Yankees" were quite tribal once. [Maybe you think Bush is our tribal leader even now?] Various tastes of freedom, however, eventually deposed the lords and monarchs. The separation by an ocean helped to a large extent.

But here is my question: when does the tribe become so large that it is really a government? I don't think the supreme leader of 500,000 is arranging or approving every marriage!

Personally, I think this is a false construct. Every group of every size has leaders, and we need to purge the dangerous ones regardless of whether they are tribal or non-tribal. I'll grant you that we could use a little more finesse.
Posted by: Tom || 09/08/2003 9:16 Comments || Top||

#6  So,Murat'you suggest we pay"Protection money",this is called extortion.
How does it work in Turkey?
In the U.S. this is called Racketering and Mafioso's go to prison.
I have no problem giving these Tribesmen jobs gaurding the pipeline.What I do have a problem with is paying"Protection money"to the same people who are blowing-up the pipeline in the first place.
Paying"Protection money"to criminals will not solve the problem,it will only encourage more extortion.
Posted by: raptor || 09/08/2003 9:41 Comments || Top||

#7  Super Hose,

I have never implied that Turkey is a good model for Islam, though in my personal opinion I do think she is. I gave Turkey as an example for the mere fact because she is the only secular Islamic country I know. Islam as pure is a religion of peace (many of you might regard it as a contrast) the many fundamentalist sects (Wahhabi, Taliban etc.) however are the rotten minority who defiles it. And these sects are more or less connected to the tribalism as they origin from Bedouin Arab tribes. Look at the map and you discover that fundamentalist Islam exists mainly in countries with a tribal society (Arabs, Afghans, Iran and Pakistan partly).

Recap: I think the only way to reach democracy is to get rid of tribalism (how I don’t know) and secondly teaching the people the virtue of secularism (separation of Church and politics) this will eliminate misusing the religion by extremists for political reasons.
Posted by: Murat || 09/08/2003 10:09 Comments || Top||

#8  Raptor

So,Murat'you suggest we pay"Protection money",this is called extortion.
How does it work in Turkey?
In the U.S. this is called Racketering and Mafioso's go to prison.
I have no problem giving these Tribesmen jobs gaurding the pipeline.What I do have a problem with is paying"Protection money"to the same people who are blowing-up the pipeline in the first place.
Paying"Protection money"to criminals will not solve the problem,it will only encourage more extortion.


Yes it is extortion, I never said this is proper, but tactically it is clever for the time being, how do you propose to change these extortion habits of the tribes (which was even tolerated by Saddam to keep them friendly) in such a short time. All I see is that the US is making them more and more enemy, which I can hardly call improvement.
Posted by: Murat || 09/08/2003 10:17 Comments || Top||

#9  al-Sadr sticks his skinny neck in the noose. Good. Keep it up, chuckles, see what it get ya...
Posted by: mojo || 09/08/2003 10:39 Comments || Top||

#10  Thier are several ways and all should be used,here are a couple:1)Tell the leaders the free ride is over,if thier tribesmen need jobs offer to put them to work building roads,schools,etc.
2)patrol the pipeline with predater drones, especially at night when most of the sabatoqe would occur.Have a couple of Black Hawks loaded with troops on stand-by.When these extortionists are spotted bust thier ass' and throw them in prison.Let the Chieftan know in no uncertian terms if it keeps-up his ass will go down too.How long do you think this chieftain and associates will keep-up the extortion when the the risks out way the profits.
It will not be easy and they won't like having to do honest work,but they will eventually get the message.
If this is not stopped it will continue and get worse.How long do you think it will be before buisness'and neighborhoods start needing"Protection".
As Fred has stated many times actions=consequences,when fear of punishment outways possable rewards this crap will cease.
Posted by: raptor || 09/08/2003 10:59 Comments || Top||

#11  Raptor

They should nominee you for president of Iraq. What is keeping the US from doing so if it is that simple? I read todays news alert, someone has sabotaged the pipeline again!
Posted by: Murat || 09/08/2003 11:05 Comments || Top||

#12  Murat,

I have not read any comment of yours that would indicate that Turkey is the best model for an Islamic Democracy. The Egyptian educator that I linked indicated that there exists an actual moderate school of Islam in opposition to the Wahabist. I am curious if that is consistent with how Turkey is governed.

During one of the times that my ship was visiting Izmir, some bozos on the USS Saratoga accidently shot a missile into a Turkish frigate that was operating as a carrier escort. While this was a regrettable situations, I was impressed with the way Turkey handled the situation. I saw no protests or bombings at least in Izmir.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 11:33 Comments || Top||

#13  Historically speaking, Murat is quite correct: many experts feel that Turkey is a good model for future Islamic democracies. It has a unique system under which its military officers swear an oath to the nation's constitution (rather than its leadership); a constitution which they are responsible for keeping in place, kind of like our Supreme Court here in the United States. The result has been about eighty years of relative stability and democracy, with a few bumps in the road here and there.
Posted by: Secret Master || 09/08/2003 11:45 Comments || Top||

#14  Super Hose

Well the fact that Turkey is so moderate is due to Ataturk I would say, he saw what kind of danger radical sects imposed. The law is forbidding forming of sects and self-proclaimed spirituals aka sect leaders where punished very severely. If you can keep a moderate mainstream in the religion the chance of extremist fractions will decline so much that they don’t pose a threat any more.

Actually there are so many similarities between Christianity and Islam that one can call these religions next editions of each other. Only one big difference is the reason they differ, that is the backwardness of some tribal based countries where radicalism flourishes in the same way of Christian inquisition ages.

I don’t regard the incident of the USS Saratoga as an accident, how could a triple security handling needed to launch a ship missile fail and hit our flagship?
Posted by: Murat || 09/08/2003 12:00 Comments || Top||

#15  Murat,using reasonable arguments is a welcome change from you.However somethings have not changed.1)Your still an enabler/appeaser of criminals and tyrants.
2)You still believe that maintaining the status quo is the only way to do things.
Posted by: raptor || 09/08/2003 12:43 Comments || Top||

#16  How could a triple security handling needed to launch a ship missile fail and hit our flagship?

I'm not sure. The Saratoga hit your flagship with a Sea Sparrow missile which may be capable of being turned "ON" without triple security. The Sea Sparrow doesn't have the range or accuracy to be much of an offensive weapon. I have never been a big fan of close-in response weapons systems to missiles. If they are effective, you still get hit with the missile parts, fuel and explosives in a rain of scrapnel.

On a carrier I doubt there would have been much command attension paid to a close-in defense drill conducted by ship's force (non-air wing or embarked admiral's staff) in the early morning.

Never heard what happened to the idiots that planned and executed that drill, but I'm sure that every officer involved met an immediate dead-end to their career goals.

I know it is of no consolation to the Turkish people, but the level of required live air defence was increased after Iraq air force shot the USS Stark full of Exocet missiles.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 12:50 Comments || Top||

#17  I hate to intervene when Murat is qualified than me but Turkey is a very special muslim country

1) It hadn't been a tribal society for centuries. I think some tribal leaders lost their heads in the process. Not having tribes is important because you cannot have democracy, rule of law, real capitalism and tutti quanti as long as people vote for a guy not in function of his ideas but in function of his tribe, as long as the president handles jibs and funds to his co-tribemen instead of to the best, as long as judges will tell you or the other guy is right depending on your tribe and the tribe of the judge.

2) In most Muslim countries the political power was historically dependent on the religious power. In Turkey during the Caliphate the mullahs got their pay from the State and obeyed orders. This
tradition of submission to the state made much easier Ataturk's work: there weren't thousand f mullahs promising 72**2 virgins to the one who would kill him or at least took arms against him.

3) Third factor: The schools of Islam prevalent in Turkey are not the same than in Arab countries. AFAIK sufism is influent in Turkey, Wahab (the creator of Wahabism) hate sufis as much or more than he hated shias.

4) Ataturk was a hero and his luck was that he ruled at a time Turks were disillusioned by the way the Arabs had backstabbed them during WWI. In Irak it looks like most people are resentful about Arab countries support to Saddam, but there is no indisputed hero like Ataturk.
Posted by: JFM || 09/08/2003 15:47 Comments || Top||

#18  It is interesting when tribal societies clash with the more modern societies. How does the Tribal cultures of the Middle east compare to the Native Indians during the settling of America? Weapons like the Ak-47 and RPG-7 seems like such effective fits with Tribal Fighting techniques. Thank you Soviet Union for spreading so much of that crap around the world!
Posted by: Patrick || 09/08/2003 20:56 Comments || Top||


U.S. Troops Arrest Four in Iraq Raid
More than 100 U.S. troops stormed homes in Saddam Hussein's hometown Tikrit early Monday, searching for Saddam loyalists accused of financing or coordinating attacks on American soldiers. Four wanted men were arrested, the military said. Acting on tips from Iraqis detained in previous raids as well as intelligence sources, the troops raided the houses in downtown Tikrit almost simultaneously, catching the men asleep.
Oh, slick! I like slick!
The bloodless raid involved three companies from the 1st Battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment of the 4th Infantry Division in Humvees, Bradley fighting vehicles and 5-ton trucks. "All those targeted were involved in attacks on coalition forces and government officials," said Lt. Col. Steve Russell, 1st Battalion commander. "The message we communicate is if you involve in this type of activity, we will hunt you down or we will kill you." The raid targeted six men suspected of financing attacks on U.S.-led coalition forces in and around Tikrit, the hotbed of support for Saddam. At least two of them were not in their homes, said Col. James Hickey, commander of the 4th Infantry's 1st Brigade. The rest included cell leaders of Saddam Fedayeen guerrillas, who have fired rocket-propelled grenades on American patrols and rigged the roads of Tikrit with homemade bombs that have killed or wounded dozens of soldiers, U.S. military officials said. Their identities were not disclosed, in line with military rules.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/08/2003 00:32 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "On Sunday, U.S. troops in the town shot and killed two Iraqis who opened fire on one of the Army observation posts. The attackers then escaped jumping roof to roof, but were chased down by soldiers with the help of residents who gave away their hideout, Luke said"

This is my favorite part of the article... specifically the "residents who gave away their hideout part"... nice to know average people even in tikrit where we are supposed to be hated, are going out of their way to help us. Let alone not helping the enemy to hide.
Posted by: Damn_Proud_American || 09/08/2003 1:09 Comments || Top||

#2  Lots of months ago -- I sat at a railroad crossing, watching train car after train car go by. Loaded with army jeeps, tanks, semis -- you name it, it was on that train.

I waited a LONG time --- and I had smiles and lots of tears, cause this train was coming from Ft. Hood, headed south,toward the Gulf of Mexico... you just knew where that stuff was going....

Now, this Lt. Col. Steve Russell? I've watched the departures, the returns to Ft. Hood -- and if this "liberal" Austin paper of mine, even gives me a "hint" that he's coming home, with his guys.... I plan to be there! But that's a dream. This paper is the king of king of the quaymire theory.. and of course, it's Bush's fault.

So --- you guys of military status.... I read daily... but how will I really know, he's bringing his guys home... and I want to be one of those folks lining that road.... holding a sign.... Cause I know, some of that stuff, I saw on that train that day, is with he and his guys.

No --- I have some clients that work at Ft. Hood... but no one person to let me know.

Thanks... I'm so proud of these guys....
Posted by: Sherry || 09/08/2003 1:33 Comments || Top||

#3  Sherry,

The local base or unit will have a website. Or you can often find troop deployments on Military.com. If you get a chance to go to a homecoming which will be open to the public, it may be one of the most enjoyable experiences for any American even if they don't have a relative or friend that is returning. I watched the telecast of the POW return. Wish I could have been there in person.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 8:31 Comments || Top||

#4  LTC Steve is definitly on my "buy 'im a beer" list...
Posted by: mojo || 09/08/2003 12:16 Comments || Top||

#5  Parts of the 4th ID are in Texas, parts are in Colorado. I don't know if there are any other places that host parts of the organization. It's a good bunch, and we're proud of 'em!
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 12:40 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Bali Bombing Accomplices Get 15 Years
EFL/FU:
An Indonesian court sentenced three men to between 15 and 16 years in prison Monday for helping to finance last year’s terrorist bombings on Bali island by robbing a jewelry store.
If they had been holy clerics, instead of just stickup men, they would have gotten off easier.
The three men admitted to taking part in the robbery in August 2002 on Java island but maintained they did not know the proceeds would be used for funding the Bali nightclub attacks that killed 202 people.
"Hell, no! We thought it was gonna go toward hookers and drugs, like it usually does..."
They were not charged with direct involvement in the Oct. 12 attack. Key bombing suspect Imam Samudra also allegedly took part in the robbery.
That really shoulda been a clue to them... On the other hand, given the contents of the holy man's computer, maybe it wasn't...
"We rule the defendants are clearly guilty of ... providing money for a terrorist act," judge Ida Bagus Jagra said. Two defendants, Andi Hidayat and Junaedi, were sentenced to 15 years each in prison. Abdul Rauf received 16 years because the judges determined that it was his idea to rob the jewelry store.
"Hey, guys! Let's hold up a jewelry store!"
"Uhhh... Hokay... Can I bring my holy man, too?"
They are among more than 30 suspects arrested over the Bali attack. The three men stole 5 1/2 pounds of gold from the shop, and the proceeds from the sale were used to fund the attack, judge Jagra said.
That implies they pulled off a robbery on credit?
More money allegedly was provided by Malaysian Wan Min Wan Mat, who is accused of channeled about $30,000 to the perpetrators. He is currently in custody in Malaysia. That money may have originated from al-Qaida, investigators said.
It’s a good bet.
Lawyers for Hidayat and Junaedi, who goes by a single name, said they were considering whether to appeal.
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 9:19:33 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Indonesia ready to freeze JI assets, accounts
The government is ready to freeze assets and accounts belonging to 10 Indonesian terrorist suspects once the United Nations endorses a United States proposal to that effect, an official says. The U.S. submitted a proposal to the UN Security Council over the weekend, seeking to freeze accounts of 10 members of Jamaah Islamiyah (JI), a regional terrorist network blamed for a string of terrorist attacks in Indonesia, including the deadly Bali bombings on Oct. 12, 2002, and the JW Marriott Hotel bombing on Aug. 5, 2003. At least seven of 20 suspected JI terrorists are Indonesians, some of whom are currently on trial for their role in the Bali bombings. The U.S. proposal would automatically become a UN resolution if no member country raised any objection to the move within 72 hours. Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Marty Natalegawa said on Sunday Jakarta would freeze assets belonging to suspected terrorists as it was the obligation of any UN member to comply with its decision. "These individuals, at various levels, are clearly persons of interest to Indonesia and have appeared in Indonesian courts for their terror acts," Marty told The Jakarta Post.
Some of them have, anyway...
"The Indonesian government needs to entertain fully and will freeze the accounts and assets as required by the UN," he said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/08/2003 00:26 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Well, let's make a big announcement so they can transfer their assets before they get frozen!
Posted by: Tom || 09/08/2003 12:38 Comments || Top||


Al-Ghozi stayed at MILF camp in Lanao
THE Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) gave refuge to the Indonesian terrorist Fathur Rohman al-Ghozi following his escape from his cell at the Philippine National Police headquarters in Camp Crame on July 14.
Hmmm... Something wrong with this surprise meter. Didn't even twitch...
This information was disclosed before the fact-finding commission created by President Arroyo to look into the circumstances behind the escape of al-Ghozi and his two companions, Abdulmukim Ong Edris and Omar Opik Lasal, both Abu Sayyaf members. The commission’s 55-page report was submitted to Malacanang on August 26, but the portion showing the MILF’s role in al-Ghozi’s escape has not been emphasized. It was signed by former ambassador to the United Nations Sedfrey Ordoñez, chair of the commission; Justice Secretary Simeon Datumanong and Miguel Varela, Philippine Chamber of Commerce and Industry (PCCI) chair, who are members of the commission. In the report, Army Capt. Paolo Perez, who was responsible for the arrest of Edris, told the commission that al-Ghozi and his companions stayed at the MILF camp in Sultan Naga Dimaporo, Lanao del Norte for several days, following their escape.
"Hi! We're the most wanted men in the Philippines! Mind if we pop in for a few days?"
Perez, one of the 29 witnesses interviewed by the commission, said he got the information from Edris during two hours of painful tactical interrogation.
Ow!
The information contradicted the MILF’s insistence al-Ghozi’s group had not sought refuge in any of its camps.
"Nope. Nope. Not us."
The government has asked the MILF to assist the Armed Forces in recapturing al-Ghozi, who had been convicted for possession of explosives.
They'll no doubt get right on it, if that's not him on the slab...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/08/2003 00:21 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Is Al Ghozi received a fair treatment for accused?
Posted by: Anonymous || 02/26/2004 23:47 Comments || Top||


Toe tag for al-Ghozi?
The Philippine army has said it may have killed Indonesian militant Fathur Rohman al-Ghozi on the southern island of Mindanao at the weekend but it would have to wait for the results of forensic tests to be certain.
"Whaddya think, Narciso? Is this his lip?"
"We'll have to send it in for test..."
Major-General Generoso Senga, commander of the Sixth Infantry Division, said the national police crime laboratory had been asked to see whether the body's fingerprints and teeth matched records for al-Ghozi, who escaped from a Manila jail in mid-July. "We suspect it's al-Ghozi but we have to check," Senga told a radio station on Mindanao. "Al-Ghozi has fingerprints and dental records with the PNP (national police), so it's easy to check."
While we're waiting, I'll oil up the old uluator...
The member of the Islamic militant network Jemaah Islamiah is accused of masterminding bombings in Manila in December 2000 that killed 22 people. Intelligence agencies suspect his hand in planned and actual attacks elsewhere in the region. A local reporter, who was stopped from entering a military hospital at the Sixth Infantry base last night, told Reuters that people who had seen the body believed it was al-Ghozi. The reporter said army sources had told him that soldiers returned to the base at Awang with the body after staging a lightning operation yesterday. He said there was an unusually large presence of military intelligence officers at the base, just south of the city of Cotabato and that the security level was higher than normal. The army had said on Friday it was getting closer to recapturing the Indonesian militant.
But did we believe them? No-o-o-o-o!... But then, they had him safely in jug, didn't they? We believed that. Gloria believed that. And what happened?
Al-Ghozi was arrested by Philippine police in January 2002 and jailed later that year for possessing explosives and falsifying documents. He strolled out of his cell at the heavily guarded national police headquarters on July 14. "There is indeed a body that looks like him but we don't know if he's the one," Norberto Gonzales, the secretary for special concerns, told foreign journalists today.
"You know, all these Southeast Asians look alike. Hell, we can't tell each other apart..."
Manila, a strong ally of Washington, gets US military aid and training for its soldiers. But the ease with which al-Ghozi escaped embarrassed the government and cast doubt on Philippine reliability in the US-led war on terror.
Did I go so far as to refer to them as paragons of ineptitude? I musta forgot...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/08/2003 00:15 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  You can put your ululater back in the closet, Fred:
The Philippine army said on Monday tests had shown that a rebel killed by soldiers on the southern island of Mindanao at the weekend was not fugitive Indonesian militant Fathur Rohman al-Ghozi. "The face looks like al-Ghozi but it is not al-Ghozi," Lieutenant-Colonel Daniel Lucero, a military spokesman, told Reuters. "Tests were conducted taking the fingerprints."
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 9:40 Comments || Top||


Terror Networks
Hunt for Osama bin Laden Narrowed to Hostile, Rugged Region of Pakistan
EFL. Pakistan? Ya don’t say?!
The hunt for Osama bin Laden has been narrowed to a 40-square-mile section of the Waziristan region of Pakistan, senior U.S. officials told ABCNEWS.
How many B-52’s would it take to flatten 40 square miles?
"[It is] a very hostile area in terms of geography, mountains, terrain, ravines and two ferocious tribes, the Wazirs and the Mahsuds who dominate the area," said Dr. Akbar Ahmed, professor of International Relations at American University in Washington, D.C. Authorities are casting a net around the towns of Angoor Ada and Wana in southern Waziristan, which are infested with al Qaeda supporters, but it is a difficult and dangerous area to operate in.
Local residents showed ABCNEWS the mountain homes of known al Qaeda operatives, graffiti praising the Taliban leader Mullah Omar, who is also believed to be hiding in northern Waziristan, and the marketplaces and bazaars where authorities believe that bin Laden and his entourage could get its supplies. At least eight people were murdered in the town of Angoor Ada, in broad daylight, on the suspicion they were informing the U.S. of bin Laden’s whereabouts, according to locals. As a result, locals are tightlipped about al Qaeda’s presence.
Ya think?
Locals also told ABCNEWS that one tribe has been known to kill their own relatives for helping Americans with development and infrastructure work on either side of the Afghan-Pakistan border.
Authorities told ABCNEWS there is new information from electronic intercepts and intelligence on the ground that shows bin Laden is very much alive, somewhere in the rugged terrain of Waziristan. Local sources there said al Qaeda has affiliates in different cities from Wana to Karachi, who are responsible for transporting al Qaeda members and sending messages by camel, enabling bin Laden to avoid U.S. spy planes and satellites overhead.
Four FBI and CIA agents are stationed with Pakistani troops to relay U.S. intelligence information, but even the Pakistanis have a hard time operating there. By treaty with the Wazir tribe, they are not allowed further than 100 yards on either side of the road, according to Ahmed, who once held a political post in the Northwest Frontier Province of Pakistan, which includes Waziristan. "This really is a closed area," he said. "The government of Pakistan has very limited control. Beyond 100 yards of both sides of the road, they have no control, which means there is no criminal law, no civil procedure codes, no normal laws of Pakistan function."
Why doesn’t this surprise me?
The tribal code also focuses on revenge, hospitality and honor, according to Ahmed, so if bin Laden was hiding in this area, all the codes would be applied. "He would be hiding as a guest, so the law of hospitality would be involved," said Ahmed. "If someone handed him over for the huge reward that is being offered, the honor of the tribe would be at stake."
Tribal customs and traditions aside, Saleh-Hayat said it is imperative of Pakistan, "to now focus on the tribal belts and to extend its laws into those areas 
 but it is a gradual process."
In other words, don’t hold your breath.
U.S. special forces are stationed across the border in Afghanistan with approximately 45 checkpoints should bin Laden head there, but authorities said there are many unfrequented routes and it is impossible to seal the entire border.
Special forces in Afghanistan, however, are not as specialized as they once were. This specifically hurts the hunt because, he added, in order to deploy intelligence resources to collect information on bin Laden, the U.S. needs Arabic speakers.
"If you’ve drawn off many if not all of your Arabic language resources and sent them off to Iraq you’re shorthanded in terms of dealing with intelligence collection problem of fixing bin Laden’s location," said Cannistraro. "So there are fewer resources to deal with in trying to basically find and capture, the principal leader of a terrorist organization that’s killing Americans."
Iraq’s not going anywhere. I throw whatever was needed into Afghanistan/Pakistan to get this prick.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/08/2003 3:22:01 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  One of GW's basic tenants (no pun intended) was that if you harbor terrorists you will be dealt with just like the terrorists. These guys are caught up in their tribal traditions a little too heavily. They need the heat turned up on them just like with the Taliban and see that actions have consequences. We are fighting this thing with both hands tied behind our back with this hundred yards meters cubits thing and that is crap. Pakistan will go slower the closer we get to Binny. It is time for at least one glove to come off for us.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/08/2003 15:42 Comments || Top||

#2  Osama, two "ferocious tribes", and two towns "infested with al Qaeda supporters". Sounds like a great target to me. Nuke 'em.
Posted by: Tom || 09/08/2003 15:46 Comments || Top||

#3  Moab into the 21st Century!

(my new motto for the tribal areas)
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 15:53 Comments || Top||

#4  Actually, the care and feeding of OBL and whatever entourage he has requires a fair bit of resources. It wouldn't be so bad if he were left alive for awhile since it freezes some of the Soddi $ that otherwise would be committed to other terrorists.
Posted by: mhw || 09/08/2003 16:29 Comments || Top||

#5  Plus there is the fact that as soon as we have a confirmed capture of kill of OBL, how many democrats will say "war's over, bring the boys home!"
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 16:38 Comments || Top||

#6  I think we need a more subtle touch then MOAB or Nukes here. Perhaps some special forces to sneak in and capture OBL and Omar (and if they happen to lop off the heads of these tribes at the same time so much the better).
Posted by: GregJ || 09/08/2003 16:39 Comments || Top||

#7  Neutron bomb woulda been sweet for this.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 09/08/2003 16:40 Comments || Top||

#8  The picture this article creates is an almost completely isolated and ineffective OBL--he can't organize or implement international operations and his sphere of real influence is about 40 square miles. I hope this is true.
Posted by: sludj || 09/08/2003 16:58 Comments || Top||

#9  A mushroom cloud and a crater would send a message that ought to be sent. I wouldn't risk the life of one special forces member just to put Osama's and Omar's heads on stakes. I can go MOAB if you guys aren't willing to make the "axis of evil" pee in their pants.
Posted by: Tom || 09/08/2003 17:03 Comments || Top||

#10  ...a very hostile area in terms of geography, mountains, terrain, ravines and two ferocious tribes, the Wazirs and the Mahsuds who dominate the area"

Hmmm...

You guys need any blankets?...
Posted by: mojo || 09/08/2003 17:10 Comments || Top||

#11  I suggest some napalm. That'll put the idea in their heads that a little heat is what they're going to feel when their time on this planet is up, and with any luck it'll be pretty soon.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/08/2003 18:09 Comments || Top||

#12  "40 square miles"

Of course, if you ironed out the wrinkles in that map, it's more like 400 square miles....

That being said, that area is not *that* large. It's about the size of an average township here in New England. Assuming they have him pinpointed correctly to be within that area, I would say that the only real problem now is to figure out exactly how to nab him...
Posted by: Carl in NH || 09/08/2003 19:08 Comments || Top||

#13  Not all chemical compounds are deadly. Some can have some interesting side effects, however. Can you see this valley carpeted with mothballs impregnated with a retch gas? Load up the sealed containers into a half-dozen C-141's, make several runs over the terrain, dropping more each time. Give the stuff about twelve hours to work, then go in in scuba gear, shovel down to the ones we want, and leave. The rest will decompose and make nice compost for whoever takes over the area next.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 19:21 Comments || Top||

#14  "revenge, hospitality and honor"

We have those too. Sadly we are all out of hospitality and honor.
Posted by: flash91 - fatwah you talkin bout willis || 09/08/2003 19:42 Comments || Top||

#15  "40 square miles"

Are they talking a square 40 miles on a side?
Or one only about 100 grid squares? (6.3 X 6.3 miles)
Posted by: Dave || 09/08/2003 20:11 Comments || Top||

#16  The tribal code also focuses on revenge, hospitality and honor

Hell this sounds like the Southeastern Conference... let's send in the Dawgs.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/08/2003 20:24 Comments || Top||

#17  Actually a Moab would still leave a skeleton once all the flesh smolders away. OBL is abnormally tall unless he is always been photographed by the Pakistani midget terrorst for operation deception purposes.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 20:42 Comments || Top||

#18  The thing is, if the US were to take out this area we would be doing a lot towards stabalizing Pakistan, in the long run. In the short run it might be bad for the dictator general.

I laughed at the blanket comment. This time the blankets can be coated with diaharia causing bacteria. I'd love to see these guys spending all day either praying to Mecca or praying at the toilet while the US and Pakistan decide what to do.
Posted by: Yank || 09/08/2003 21:33 Comments || Top||

#19  Fierce tribes my ass. Get Tactical on the these cavemen and watch the honor drain away in a pool of blood. I said my prayer "May it be today". I'm sick to death of tribalism. Cavemen were tribal, Stone age was tribal.
Posted by: Lucky || 09/08/2003 22:24 Comments || Top||

#20  There's a mismatch here: These hicks don't want government control beyond 100 yards, don't want to be ruled as Pakistanis by Pakistani law, yet want to be counted and treated as Pakis when it comes to foreign influence.

Think of a guy who builds a factory outside the town limits, doesn't pay taxes, and doesn't want to submit to town regulations and zoning. He has no right to complain if the city fire department doesn't come when his factory catches fire, or the city police won't arrest the guys who stole the payroll.

Time for Pervez to say to these yahoos "No paki cover where there are no paki boots."

This sort of honor thing implies that the biggest honcho in the valley is hosting OBL. Find where this guy has his herds, send in the A-10s to buzz them and scare the be-zesus out of them. Maybe fire a few rounds from the gatling gun and blow some big rocks away. When the Big Man's racing camel can't race because it's nerves are shot to hell, you'll see OBL flying out on his ear jig-time.
Posted by: Ptah || 09/08/2003 22:30 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Calling California Ranters
There is a site the wants to REPEAL SB60. This is the law the granted ILLEGAL aliens a California drivers license. If any Californian Ranters want to join the fight here is a site to sign up: http://www.saveourlicense.com/


I apologize for taking up valuable Ranting space for a political message but it’s important.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/08/2003 7:26:16 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Then the appropriate comment is a reminder of the drivers license investigations on the east coast following 9/11. There may be a basis for a federal challenge to this.
Posted by: Dishman || 09/08/2003 20:04 Comments || Top||

#2  They really have a law like that? WOW
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/08/2003 20:23 Comments || Top||

#3  The law is not even a week old, a last desperate attempt by Governor Grey David to buy votes from the Mexican-American community to avoid being recalled.

Effectively this would make California drivers licenses useless as a form of identification. Additional forms of identification can be arranged with a proper drivers licence so it will be nearly impossible to 'prove' you are who you say you are in a quick check.

Davis vetoed this law two years ago saying it was dangerous, now he's letting it pass. He's dispicable.
Posted by: Yank || 09/08/2003 21:35 Comments || Top||

#4  If they collect 400,000 valid signatures before the 90 day period expires (before Jan 1 when the law goes into effect), then the referendum goes on the March ballot, and the law is on hold til the vote. We can still keep our state safe! Send the message and grab a petition to circulate Californians!
Frank G
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 21:59 Comments || Top||

#5  ..a last desperate attempt by Governor Grey David to buy votes from the Mexican-American community to avoid being recalled.

The one thing I'm curious about is just where do the loyalties of certain ethnic groups lie if, in order to get their votes, the state government has to resort to unethical measures?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/08/2003 22:37 Comments || Top||

#6  Bomb-a-rama, it's with their tribe. That's what la raza is all about. If California doesn't watch out, it'll be bribe-a-rama. That's Mexico in a nutshell.
Posted by: Lucky || 09/08/2003 22:44 Comments || Top||

#7  how do you people live in THAT state?
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/08/2003 22:59 Comments || Top||

#8  Cyber Sarge...once again a big thanks! Cheezus K Reist am I all over this one. 2 years ago I was nearly killed by one of these same illegal immigrant drivers. My younger brother as well. This cannot be allowed to stand. And it will not. The Dems have shown their true colors on this one....they will sell all of us out to remain in power. Did ya get that NMM? You think this is a CA problem? It's not just here, pal. How can we live here you ask? Because those of us with some sanity left refuse to turn what's left of this great state over to the kinds of morons you kneel too. Get the picture?
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 09/09/2003 1:25 Comments || Top||


International
StrategyPage roundup
A couple interesting tidbits from today’s Strategy Page.

Army commissions development of realistic XBOX squad-level combat "game"
September 8, 2003: Noting that the troops spend a lot of time playing video games, the U.S. Army set out to create a squad training simulation that would run on XBox. Starting in 2000, they hired video games developer Pandemic to create "Full Spectrum Warrior" (FSW). A commercial version will be available in early 2004, although current plans are for both the military and commercial versions to ship on the same CD. This way, civilians can experience the more realistic, but less "fun" military version (which has strictly realistic ammo loads and time durations for battlefield procedures). The game will have online multiplayer capabilities. The artificial intelligence of the enemy force appears to be pretty realistic and deadly, but a final opinion on that has to wait until lots of players (military and civilian) get to use the game.

Compared to your usual video game, the military version of FSW will kind of drag along at times. It can take a minute or more for troops to do some things, like move to another position or use a smoke grenade (it takes nearly a minute for the smoke screen to form.) The player assumes the role of the squad leader, and uses the video game controller to intuitively give battlefield type commands to the two team leaders or, if need be, individual troops. The use of the game controller and the game software is pretty intuitive, allowing the player to handle a real time battlefield game without the game controls getting in the way. Continues... see link. Also followed by some interesting news on WWII Japanese chemical weapons being uncovered.

Infantry: A new kind of warSeptember 8, 2003: New body armor, new tactics and new medical procedures are producing much lower death rates in combat. During the recent Iraq fighting, only 14 percent of those injured in combat were killed. In World War II, 30 percent of those hurt in combat died. In Korea, where body armor was first introduced, and helicopters first used to rapidly get wounded troops to a hospital, it was 25 percent. It wasn’t much better in Vietnam, at 24 percent, and was about the same in the 1991 Gulf War. Note that the World War II rate was same as it was during the American Civil War (1861-65) and the 1847 war with Mexico. During the American Revolution (1776-81), 41 percent of those hit in combat died. So what has happened in Iraq is a major shift in how troops are protected in combat? The better protection for the torso and head has meant that 80 percent of the wounds are in the arms and legs. During World War II, 65 percent of the wounds were in the arms and legs. Military doctors saw this trend coming, and provided additional training in treating arm and leg wounds for doctors and nurses going to Iraq. Continues--see link.
Posted by: Dar || 09/08/2003 4:14:05 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Why XBox? Did Microsoft bribe someone?

You just know some al Qeada hacker is going to break into this and mess with our soldiers' minds.
Posted by: marlowe || 09/08/2003 16:51 Comments || Top||

#2  Actually, my teens have been getting plenty of squad tactics playing SoCom: U.S. Navy Seals on the internet with our trusty Playstation 2... headset comm units allow them to talk to each other... very cool ;-)
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 16:55 Comments || Top||


Latin America
Anti-Globalization Protests Loom at Cancun
U.S. environmentalists, militant Mexican peasants and European backpackers descended on the sweltering Caribbean resort of Cancun on Monday for anti-globalization protests at world trade talks.
Yes, it’s that time again.
Truckloads of Mexican police in gray uniforms patrolled the streets around where the World Trade Organization is to open a five-day meeting on Wednesday to nudge its 146 members toward a comprehensive world trade pact by the end of next year. Local authorities, keen to avoid a repeat of the riots that marred a WTO meeting in Seattle in 1999, are putting on free concerts and open-air plays to allow protesters to let off steam.
Tattooed activists, some playing bongo drums, mingled with promenading Mexican families at a concert in a square in central Cancun on Sunday night as Brazilian rap music boomed from speakers through the balmy night air.
And I had to work this week, dammit, it’s not fair!
Campaigners say they will get their message across peacefully.
"I would hope that we can demonstrate again that the WTO is an organization that should not exist. It is creating more harm economically, socially and environmentally than good," said Antonia Juhasz, a veteran protester based in San Francisco.
Who else from where else.
Activists say the chance of violence at mass protests planned for later this week was slim because many foreign campaigners were staying away from Cancun due to the cost of traveling and the reputation of the Mexican police as being tough on dissent.
Mostly the latter, Mexican police have no sense of humor toward people trashing their cash cow tourist trap. Especially rich unemployed yankee hippie scum.
"You can either come here and get your ass kicked by the police or stay at home and take action at a local level," said Juhasz.
So I take it Mr. Juhasz will be issuing press releases from the hotel pool.
Up to 15,000 Mexican peasants wielding machetes are expected to hit the streets at a demonstration on the meeting’s opening day on Wednesday.
Another reason to stay by the pool.
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 3:02:27 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "U.S. environmentalists, militant Mexican peasants and European backpackers"...

What, no lesbian poets from Nicaragua?
Posted by: Raj || 09/08/2003 15:11 Comments || Top||

#2  (M)any foreign campaigners were staying away from Cancun due to the cost of traveling and the reputation of the Mexican police as being tough on dissent

And some of them are staying away because they're still on probation...
Posted by: seafarious || 09/08/2003 15:23 Comments || Top||

#3  Brazilian rap music? No wonder they are angry.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/08/2003 15:38 Comments || Top||

#4  Activists say the chance of violence at mass protests planned for later this week was slim because many foreign campaigners were staying away from Cancun due to the cost of traveling and the reputation of the Mexican police as being tough on dissent.

So what they're saying is "we're basically pussies"? What a surprise.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/08/2003 16:00 Comments || Top||

#5  tu3031, what they are saying is that unlike the Storm troopers in the U.S., the Federalis won't think twice about cracking some heads of young punks. Since they know that IF they try to damage the property in Cancun, the police will probably round up the whole lot and play a rousing game of piñata before they throw them out of the country. Oh please, oh please let them have a protest! I hope the camera is rolling!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/08/2003 16:07 Comments || Top||

#6  Can someone explain to me why these folks are violently opposed to economic globalazation and incredibly affirmative to every other kind of globization? Oh. Never mind. Inexplicable.
Posted by: Highlander || 09/08/2003 16:37 Comments || Top||

#7  ........as the anti-globalists travel on capitalist multinational airlines, heh heh.

Seafarious---I like your catch. Here is my favorite part about the French anti-globalization chap:

But his latest sentence was reduced in a partial amnesty by French President Jacques Chirac, and a judge ruled he could serve the rest of his sentence under a conditional release programme.


This is the guy that trashed the McDonalds Restaurant a few years ago.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/08/2003 17:15 Comments || Top||

#8  I would have to kill my travel agent if I were at Cacun for my honeymoon and all the protesters were getting hit with hose cannons.... wait that could be entertaining. Would that type of show cost extra?
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 20:26 Comments || Top||

#9  Cancun brings in a shitload of tourista dollars to perennially poor Yucatan, so the locals will kick some anti-globo ass even if the Federales don't...
Posted by: mojo || 09/09/2003 0:12 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Al-Q Accepts Arafat’s PM Offer
EFL
Palestinian parliament speaker Ahmed Qureia has accepted Yasser Arafat’s nomination to be prime minister, a Palestinian official said Monday.
Meet the new lackey, same as the old lackey.
On Monday night, after meeting with Qureia, Arafat told the executive committee of his Fatah Party that Qureia had formally accepted the nomination, said a Palestinian official.
"Please don’t name me, I’ll be a dead man!"
The official said political contacts were underway to ensure that the appointment would be confirmed by the Palestinian parliament, as required by Arafat fiat law. Earlier in the day, Qureia said that he would only accept the position if he had guarantees that Israel would comply with its obligations under the "road map" peace plan. Abbas had said Israel’s non-compliance, along with a lack of internal support, had made his job impossible.
Gee, wonder if Sharon, while on the plane to India, gave him his "guarantees"?
Posted by: Steve White || 09/08/2003 1:17:19 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Earlier in the day, Qureia said that he would only accept the position if he had guarantees that Israel would comply with its obligations under the "road map" peace plan.

And what about Palestinian compliance? Any chance this is going to happen at all?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/08/2003 18:14 Comments || Top||

#2  December 2003

Today, on Al Jazeera, Yasser Arafat appeared with a sock puppet who he claimed was the new Palestinian prime minister. The sock puppet, who Arafat refered to affectionately as 'Abu', was appointed as prime minister following the resignation of Abu Ala who was appointed prime minister following the resignation Abu Masen, the man who previously held the position for only 100 days.
Arafat, also known as Abu Amar, claimed the sock puppet agreed to be prime minister only on the condition that the Israelis comply with the "road map" and throw themselves into the sea.
Posted by: SteveS || 09/08/2003 18:30 Comments || Top||


Africa: West
12 Marines Contract Malaria in Liberia
EFL
WASHINGTON (AP) - Twelve U.S. Marines who were in Liberia last month in support of a West African peacekeeping mission have contracted malaria and 21 other U.S. troops have symptoms of the disease, defense officials said Monday.
Oh, *&!!#$%$@^&*!!!!!! This is not supposed to happen; Navy medics are aware of endemic malaria in the region and are supposed to make sure the Marines have, and TAKE, adequate prophylactic medicine. Arrrrrrrgh!
Two of the Marines were flown from the USS Iwo Jima warship off the coast of Liberia to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany on Saturday and 30 other Marines, plus one sailor, were flown from the ship Sunday to the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Md., according to a brief statement from U.S. European Command, which is in charge of the Liberia mission.

Lt. Col. Jay DeFrank, a Defense Department spokesman, said the Marines, members of the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit based at Camp Lejeune, N.C., were in Liberia in mid-August as part of a U.S. quick-reaction force of about 150 U.S. troops. They operated from an airport outside Monrovia, the capital.

In addition to the 12 confirmed cases of malaria, test results on the 21 other patients are pending, officials said. U.S. troops normally receive an anti-malarial drug regimen before deploying to a country like Liberia where there is risk of getting the disease. DeFrank said it was not immediately clear whether the Marines who fell ill had taken such medication.
They didn’t; that’s obvious. According to the WHO at this link, malaria risk—predominantly due to P. falciparum—exists throughout the year in the whole country. P. falciparum in that region is resistant to chloroquine and sulfadoxine–pyrimethamine, so the troops were supposed to take mefloquine.
Details on the Marines’ condition were not immediately available. The European Command statement said all 33 patients were responding to treatments, but it provided no other details.
So now they’re taking mefloquine.
The two who were flown to Landstuhl exhibited more severe symptoms than the 31 others, officials said. European Command said it was unlikely that the illness presented a communicable disease risk to the other Marines and sailors aboard the ships.
Not unless they brought the mosquitoes back as pets.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/08/2003 1:03:00 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Malaria was nasty, during OEF soldiers were required to take mefloquine (under the name Lariam) every monday. One pill a week, unfortunately it has some strange side effects. It tends to make you a bit irritable and somewhat aggressive as a result, though that might be more environmental than the drug. However, I can tell you that when you're on the lariam, you can get pretty schidzy. There were stories of whole SF teams who had to take Lariam as well as anti-psychotics just to even it all out. I'm not sure how true that all is, the Medic I was hanging with might have just wanted to jack with me about the pills.

-DS
"the horns hold up the halo."
Posted by: DeviantSaint || 09/08/2003 13:19 Comments || Top||

#2  I thought they were using something _other_ than melfloquine for protection against malaria now? Aren't there other drugs available?
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 09/08/2003 13:40 Comments || Top||

#3  The current best drug for malaria is called Malarone. Below is an excerpt from my standard travel med handout. Malarone is expensive, but kills the parasite within red blood cells, so you don't have to take it as long. Always wondered whether Larium was involved in 'Heart of Darkness"

Ignore overseas advice! but if you get a high fever in malaria country, seek medical help and ask for Malaria films

Aralen /Chloroquin, For use in the Caribbean, Central America, Middle East, and North Africa. Use 500 mg tablet once weekly, began 1 week prior, and continue 4 weeks after leaving the area. Take with food to avoid GI distress.
Lariam /Mefloquin For use in South America, the Amazon basin, sub-Saharan Africa, and all areas of Asia. 250 mg tablet once a week. Start 1-2 weeks prior to departure, and continue for 4 weeks after leaving of the area. Hallucinations have rarely been reported, Side effects may be reduced by splitting the dose and take 1/2 tablet twice/week. Take with food to reduce GI complaints.
Doxycycline 100 mg Works in all areas as an alternative to Lariam. Take 100 mg daily, start 2 days prior to travel, and continue for 1 month after departure from the area. Contains Tetracycline, and may cause photosensitivity.
Primaquine 30 mg/Day 1 week before & 1 week after exposure. Avoid if you have G6PD deficiency, GI upset.
Atovaquone 250 mg + Proguanil 100 mg (Malarone) 1 tab daily, kids 5 mg Atov./kg daily. No known adverse effects.
Posted by: Kevin H || 09/08/2003 13:58 Comments || Top||

#4  I have a severe allergy to quinine, and to most of the synthetic drugs that were on the market through the 1980's. Affected my lymphatic system - parts would swell up like a puffer fish. That didn't stop me from serving a tour in Panama and another in Vietnam. I got sick once in Panama - fever 104-105, sweats, racking chills, but was diagnosed as having "a cold". Lost 26 pounds in five days - some cold! Took me five months to recover fully.

I know two people that developed malaria in Southeast Asia. What I went through wasn't anything like what they had, and for that I am deeply thankful! The real kicker is that both were supposedly faithfully taking their anti-malaria medication. Guess that's par for the course - there are always going to be a few people that don't respond to vaccines or other preventive measures. But 31? That's stretching coincidence a bit far.

What's really funny is that since Panama, mosquitos avoid me as if I was a deadly disease! DW and DD can be being eaten alive, and the mosquitos don't even buzz around me.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 16:00 Comments || Top||

#5  I have a severe allergy to quinine, and to most of the synthetic drugs that were on the market through the 1980's. Affected my lymphatic system - parts would swell up like a puffer fish. That didn't stop me from serving a tour in Panama and another in Vietnam. I got sick once in Panama - fever 104-105, sweats, racking chills, but was diagnosed as having "a cold". Lost 26 pounds in five days - some cold! Took me five months to recover fully.

I know two people that developed malaria in Southeast Asia. What I went through wasn't anything like what they had, and for that I am deeply thankful! The real kicker is that both were supposedly faithfully taking their anti-malaria medication. Guess that's par for the course - there are always going to be a few people that don't respond to vaccines or other preventive measures. But 31? That's stretching coincidence a bit far.

What's really funny is that since Panama, mosquitos avoid me as if I was a deadly disease! DW and DD can be being eaten alive, and the mosquitos don't even buzz around me.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 16:01 Comments || Top||

#6  Old Patriot:

Dad and Uncles say a touch of Malaria or Dingy(?) fever is just part of the green experience. My grand dad says "rum pox were the worst tho". I fear to ask what sort of malady that was.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/08/2003 19:56 Comments || Top||

#7  Ship,
That's fine, but I'm Air Force! Didn't keep me out of the jungles of Laos, or a few other things. Dengue fever is supposed to be worse than malaria. Thanks, but no thanks! I remember reading that more than half the troops on Guadalcanal developed malaria, and they still won. Apparently, the Japanese were in worse shape.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 20:58 Comments || Top||

#8  Guess the Pharma industry didn't get enough baksheesh from the Bushies
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/08/2003 22:55 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Arafat’s anointed (Abu Ala) wants guarantees
THE man Yasser Arafat has chosen to be the next Palestinian prime minister, Ahmed Qurei, says he wants US and European guarantees of support for peacemaking before accepting the post.
How about.....no?
The Palestinian Authority President yesterday nominated Mr Qorei, his parliamentary speaker, to replace Mahmoud Abbas, who resigned on Saturday.
"To hell with this! I'm outta here!"
Mr Abbas said Mr Arafat and Israel had obstructed his peace efforts, and that the US had not given him enough backing.
Not enough backing hmmm. Trying to keep from geting the old house shot up, huh Abbas?
Mr Qorei’s credentials as a highly regarded moderate and an architect of the 1993 interim Oslo peace accords with Israel could endear him to the US and could raise hopes of salvaging a battered US-led peace plan.
highly regarded Paleo moderate = uses a semiauto rifle
Palestinian Authority Minister for Security Affairs Mohammed Dahlan said he would not serve in any new cabinet unless it was headed by Mr Abbas.
Mo’s got his cart hitched to the Abbas horse, he hasn’t noticed it’s dead
There was no immediate reaction from Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who was leaving yesterday on an official trip to India. But he has ruled out talks with a Palestinian leadership controlled by Mr Arafat. Israeli Health Minister Danny Naveh, of Mr Sharon’s rightist Likud party, said Mr Qorei’s nomination would not bring a resumption of dialogue, because "the man who is pulling the strings and controlling everything is one person, and it’s Yasser Arafat". Mr Qorei, a veteran politician but one who has little grass-roots support among Palestinians, appears to recognise the difficulties he faces if he takes the job. "I am not prime minister as yet ... I want to see the Americans – what kind of guarantee ... they will (give)," he said.
"what’s in it for me? I want a swiss account like Abu Amar"
Actually... He has one.
"I want to see Europe, what kind of guarantees and support ... they will (give). I’m not ready to go for a failure. I want to see whether peace is possible or not."
Maybe you should look at Gaza, too?
Soon after Mr Arafat’s decision, Israel launched the latest in a series of missile strikes against Islamic militant groups. Helicopter gunships attacked the home of a member of Hamas’s military wing, wounding 15 people, medical workers said. The army said the building was used as a weapons arsenal and that ammunition and explosives blew up after the missiles hit. Mr Arafat’s nomination of Mr Qorei, approved yesterday by the Palestine Liberation Organisation’s executive committee and the Fatah faction, came amid a deep political crisis. Israeli officials said Mr Abbas’s decision to quit was a blow to peace hopes and they renewed calls for Mr Arafat’s expulsion. Mr Arafat had appointed Mr Abbas in April under intense international pressure for reform. The nomination of Mr Qorei, 65, could ease weeks of political confusion in the Palestinian Authority, which had heightened concern that the US-led road map to peace might be beyond saving.
Hamas has taken care of that, I think...
The crisis intensified at the weekend when an Israeli missile hit Gaza City in an apparent assassination bid against wheelchair-bound Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Sheikh Yassin was only slightly wounded but the group vowed revenge. Mr Sharon told the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper that Hamas leaders were "marked for death".
’Bout time
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 12:35:54 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Key is our (US) reaction to the newest member of "As the Bank Burns" while our favorite actors (Mazen and Dahlan) are written out of the show.

Sadly, I feel Arafat ends up on top while Powell caves.

Posted by: Daniel King || 09/08/2003 13:05 Comments || Top||

#2  We won't support Ahmed Q because Arafish is pulling the strings. Until Arafish it taken out of the picture, we'll just watch.
Posted by: Charles || 09/08/2003 13:58 Comments || Top||

#3  mhw - as most people here know, ive been a relative dove (by rantburg standards) on the Pal situation, and was willing to give Abbas the benefit of the doubt - I must say that I am much more skeptical of Mr Q.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/08/2003 14:42 Comments || Top||

#4  I trust we have ceased signing checks to the PLA for the time being ...
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 15:18 Comments || Top||

#5  How about getting some "guarentees" from your boss?
Not that they'd mean anything.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/08/2003 16:09 Comments || Top||

#6  I offer the following guarantees:

1. I guarantee I will not interfere as the IAF tries to make mincemeat of any and every member of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aksa, Fatah, the Palestinial Liberation Army, Hezbollah, and any and all other paleo terror organizations.

2. I guarantee I will rub your nose it it every time you do something stupid, arrogant, or unsanitary. I will assist anyone else in doing the same.

3. I guarantee that anything I feel is worthy for you is also worthy for every other paleomonkey we find shooting off his mouth, or trying to blow himself and others up, throwing rocks, taunting Israelis, or just causing trouble. This DOES include anything, right down to jaywalking and littering.

4. I guarantee I will applaud any and all Israeli strikes that kill one or more members of HAMAS, Islamic Jihad, Palestinian Liberation Army, or any other such pile of garbage.

5. I guarantee I will support Israel in its right to self-determination and peace within recognized borders, and will do whatever is necessary to make that support as concrete as possible.

6. Speaking of concrete, I guarantee I will help Israel pour the concrete for Arafart's (and any other worthy 'dignitary's') shoes, and to help move him/them to an appropriate date with the fishies of the deep.

Push a little harder, and we'll come up with some additional guarantees.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/08/2003 16:32 Comments || Top||

#7  MHW: This whole thing is a show-stopper, even Mazen. He didn't even want to do the task of breaking the various terrorist organizations within Gaza and the West Bank for fear of "civil war". Apparently, the Palestinians think that the price of peace is something they don't need to pay.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - had Mazen been serious about dismantling Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and even Fatah, and started doing what he needed to do, the ball would have been hit squarely back into Israel's court and no amount of explaining or waffling by Sharon would absolve him of the obligation to abide by his end of the agreement and begin pullouts of military forces and removal of settlements. Instead of a bold Anwar Sadat-like move by Mazen, it is now back to square one with Yasser Arafat.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/08/2003 23:01 Comments || Top||

#8  You guarantee that you won't explode any more Israelis.
We guarantee that you will live as long as you keep your guarantee.
Deal?
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/09/2003 0:03 Comments || Top||


Korea
North Korea to send defiant message with parade
North Korea is preparing to send a defiant message to the world with a massive parade of military might at national day celebrations on Tuesday, according to officials and analysts.
It’s their birthday? Gee, and I forgot to send a card.
North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il is reportedly planning the biggest military parade for more than a decade which will feature thousands of troops, tanks, artillery and missiles.
The Chosun Ilbo newspaper, citing defense analysts, said the regime may choose the occasion to unveil a new multi-stage ballistic missile with a range of up to 4,000 kilometers (2,500 miles).
Fireworks are always nice on your birthday.
North Korea’s official media said a "mammoth" parade would mark Tuesday’s 55th anniversary of the foundation of the communist state. Reports in Seoul said missiles and tanks have been moved to Mirim airport, about 11 kilometers outside the capital, in preparation. A Seoul government official told the JoongAng Ilbo newspaper the parade would be the biggest since 1992 when the Stalinist state celebrated the 60th anniversary of the founding of its People’s Army as a guerrilla force fighting the Japanese occupation of Korea. Speculation has mounted that North Korea would use Tuesday’s celebrations to carry out a nuclear or missile test as a follow-up to three days of acrimonious six-nation talks in Beijing late last month on its nuclear program.
This explains why we haven’t had a good NK rant for a while, they’ve been busy getting ready for the party.
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 11:51:12 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "...the biggest military parade for more than a decade which will feature thousands of troops, tanks, artillery and missiles."

Sounds like a lovely target -- too bad we will probably pass it up.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 12:32 Comments || Top||

#2  Bet they got the good missiles all in a Juche circle - similar to the famed USSR Badger(?) Loop.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/08/2003 12:52 Comments || Top||

#3  Ever wonder how much of their ever-dwindling resources go into these parades? I realize that this is the ultimate affirmation of Songun, but how many more parades will it take before the soldiers in their brave, goose-stepping formations are all holding the ropes to pull the tanks and missle launchers along behind them?
Posted by: Hodadenon || 09/08/2003 15:15 Comments || Top||

#4  a parade! Why does this start me thinking of Animal House? lol
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 15:49 Comments || Top||

#5  It would be fun to have a multitude of American's Xerox the image of their naked tush or extended middle finger and fax or mail it to Dear Leader in honor of his anniversery.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 16:20 Comments || Top||

#6  "Candygram."
Posted by: seafarious || 09/08/2003 16:56 Comments || Top||

#7  Well, TU, I got it ;-)~
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 22:20 Comments || Top||

#8  Great article in The New Yorker about NK 9/8/03
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/08/2003 23:05 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Amnesty report blasts restrictions on Palestinians in West Bank
JPost - Reg Req’d - Hat tip to LGF, who also has a great title:
Amnesty International: Set the Jew-Killers Free


Israel does not apply "reasonable, necessary, and proportionate" measures in its military actions in the West Bank to protect the security of its citizens and borders, Amnesty International charged in its latest report on Israel and the Palestinians, released Monday.

The 79-page report, entitled "Surviving Under Siege: The Impact of Movement Restrictions on the Right to Work," stated: "The restrictions indiscriminately imposed by Israel on all Palestinians do not meet these criteria, constitute collective punishment, and violate Israel’s obligations under international law to ensure freedom of movement, an adequate standard of living, and as normal a life as possible to the population in occupied territories."
How about the fact that children, women, teens, ambulances, press vehicles, UN vehicles have been used to transport bombs or become bombs themselves? Anything on that, AI?
The "stringent" restrictions imposed by Israel on the movement of Palestinians "have had a devastating impact on the lives of the Palestinians," charged Amnesty.
No, the actions of the Paleos have led to devastating impacts - a national cause/effect lesson
"Closures, blockades, military checkpoints, curfews and a barrage of other restrictions often prevent the Palestinian population from leaving their homes or immediate surrounding areas, and have caused or contributed to the virtual collapse of the Palestinian economy."
perhaps if this loser culture tried to live in peace with their more powerful neighbor they would see the benefits? Noooo, can’t do that, cuz they’re Joooos
The report pointed out that the unemployment rate in the territories is almost 50 percent and that two thirds of the population live under the poverty line. An increasing number are suffering from malnutrition and health problems.
suffering from splodeydope disease?
"Palestinians are prohibited from driving on main roads connecting one part of the West Bank to another," the report continued. "Trips of a few kilometers take hours on lengthy detours to avoid the areas surrounding Israeli settlements and the roads used by Israeli settlers, which are prohibited to Palestinians." Amnesty charged that such areas have multiplied as the settlements spread.
the settlers, in general, aren’t terrorizing the Paleo populace, and there have been arrests and prison for those causing problems.IMHO, Israel would be better served by dismantling the settlements and pulling back behind a big F&*king wall
The closures and curfews have prevented Palestinians from reaching their places of work and distributing goods and agricultural produce to internal and external markets, the report continued.

"Factories and farms have been driven out of business by the losses incurred, the dramatically increased transport costs, and the loss of export markets. As a result, unemployment has spiraled and this in turn has led to a sharp decline in the standard of living."

Amnesty recommended evacuating the Jewish settlements in the territories, charging that they violate international law and that the measures purportedly taken to protect the security and freedom of movement of the settlers perpetrate serious and discriminatory human rights abuses against the Palestinians.

It added that Israel should lift the restrictions on the movement of Palestinians that constitute collective punishment, and that they should be imposed only in relation to a specific security threat and only if they are non-discriminatory
non-discriminatory? Punish Jooos too for bombings in Tel Aviv?
Posted by: Frank G || 09/08/2003 10:32:36 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "The closures and curfews have prevented Palestinians from reaching their places of work and distributing goods and agricultural produce to internal and external markets, the report continued."

English translation: The damn wall makes it harder for suicide bombers to get downtown to kill Joooos and foreigners minding their own damn business.

I don't know what bothers me more: ever being a member of Amnesty International, or seeing what it has become lately.
Posted by: Baba Yaga || 09/08/2003 16:24 Comments || Top||

#2  It's not so much the suicide bombers that get disrupted. It takes quite a buit longer for the boys to reach th ebomb factory each morning. This puts the entire operation off schedule and leads to unplanned overtime. The bombmaking industry is in a slowdown now that Sadamm is gone. This economic effect of the downturn on the bombing idustry has dramtically raised unemployment levels in Palestinian males 15 to 35 years of age. Yasser will never get re-elected unless the economy improves.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 20:37 Comments || Top||


Latin America
Analysis: Venezuela’s Islamic links
EFL/FU:
Intelligence agencies are investigating links between Islamic terrorist networks and the Venezuelan government. Investigators name two Venezuelan based al-Qaida suspects: Hakim Mamad Al Diab Fatah who was deported from the U.S. on suspicion of involvement with the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and Rahaman Hazil Mohammed Alan who is jailed in the U.K. for smuggling an explosive device onto a British Airways flight. American and British officials complain that their investigations are stymied because the government of President Hugo Chavez has dismantled U.S.-trained intelligence units which tracked terrorist connections among the half-million strong Venezuelan Arab community. Chavez has instead brought in Cuban and Libyan advisors to run his security services according to American, British and other European diplomatic officials in Caracas.
Cubans and Libyans being experts on "internal security", keeping Hugo in power.
Although the U.S. State department does not yet consider Venezuela as a state sponsor of terrorism, FBI officials express concern over "a lack of cooperation on the part of Venezuelan authorities." Despite repeated requests, U.S. law enforcement agencies have received no satisfactory explanation on the whereabouts of Diab Fatah, Venezuelan ID 16104824, who is associated with Hani Hanjour, the hijacker of American Airlines flight 77 which crashed into the Pentagon. Fatah attended the same New Jersey flight school as the suicide team and talked about blowing up airliners. He was arrested in the U.S. shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks but was deported when official inquiries through the Venezuelan government turned up nothing on him other than psychiatric records.
Well, that was pretty stupid.
The U.S. legal attaché in Caracas at the time, Hector Rodriguez, informed the Venezuelan Interior Ministry of Fatah’s flight number and 8 March 2002 arrival time to request that he be detained for questioning. But to the amazement of American authorities, the Venezuelan government says that there is no record of Fatah ever re-entering the country.
"Nope, ain’t seen him."
Venezuelan National Guard General Marcos Ferreira, who headed the interior ministry’s border control department and forwarded the FBI request to Deputy Interior Minister Luis A. Camacho on 5 March 2002, believes that Venezuela’s security service or Directorate for Intelligence Security and Prevention is protecting Fatah. "DISIP fetched him directly from the plane and took him to a safe house," Ferreira tells UPI. There is no independent confirmation of this account and the Chavez government discredits Ferreira by claiming that the general was involved in a May 2002 coup plot against the government.
Which makes him credible to me.
But the Fatah mystery appears to fall into a developing pattern of Venezuelan state involvement with terrorism.
British law enforcement officials are similarly perplexed about a fragmentation grenade which got smuggled on board a British Airways flight in the luggage of another Venezuelan Arab as the plane stopped off in Caracas last February 13 on it way to London. Mohammed Alan who boarded the plane with Venezuelan passport BO974970 was arrested upon arrival at London’s Gatwick airport when X ray machines detected the device in one of his bags.
We heard about this, then it dropped off the screen.
Britain’s main airports had been on a high security alert all that week following tip offs that a major terrorist attack was being planned. "The Venezuelans can’t explain how the grenade got past security screening but the fact of the matter is that it got on the plane," says a British diplomatic official in Caracas. Chavez has since turned down an offer by the British ambassador to provide counter terrorist experts to assist Venezuela’s security services.
"No thanks, I’ve got my own terrorists, er, experts."
According to intelligence sources, the smuggled hand grenade’s serial number corresponds to weapons stocks of the Caracas based 3rd army Division and could have been the detonating system for a larger bomb. An unconfirmed report says that a thin sheet of plastic explosive was embedded within the box containing the grenade which Mohammed took on board the aircraft.
Hadn’t heard that!
An account of the incident published in the Venezuelan magazine Tal Cual maintains that the alleged kamikaze carried the device in a backpack which he brought on board as hand luggage. An air disaster was only averted because the flight crew transferred the bag to the plane’s luggage hold when it proved too bulky to fit into the passenger section’s overhead compartments. "He could no longer detonate the bomb in midair as may have been the original plan," says a source quoted in the magazine.
Dodged a bullet on that one, if true.
Britain’s Scotland Yard cannot officially comment on the case until Mohammed Alan’s trial opens. Venezuelan police officials speaking on condition of anonymity say that Mohammed’s identity is manufactured and that members of his supposed family have connections with Chavez government circles. They could also be connected with a Hizbollah money laundering operation centred around the Banco Confederado on the resort island of Margarita which channels money into the establishments of several Arabs in Venezuela with known radical ties.
Follow the money.
A U.S. trained Venezuelan intelligence officer who formed part of the disbanded counter terrorist unit, Section 11, tells UPI that Chavez has been withholding key intelligence from U.S. authorities about the head of Hizbollah’s financial operation, Mohammed Al Din, a contributor to Chavez’s presidential campaign.
And his "retirement fund".
The source says that his unit was eliminated while it was investigating suspicious cash transfers between the Banco Confederado and Lebanon during 2001. A Section 11 undercover agent was killed in Margarita where Diab Fatah has been recently spotted according to Intelligence officers. The island is considered a stronghold of Chavez’s state sponsored militias, the Circulos Bolivarianos.
Interesting.
Posted by: Steve || 09/08/2003 10:31:18 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I had a lot of hope that Chavez was circling the drain. His poor people really seem to be gravitating towards the Cuba doctors. If either Cuba or Venesuala fall, the otehr can't stand long unless the cancer continues to spread.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 13:38 Comments || Top||

#2  Read about this connection 6 months ago on a Venezuelan web site dedicated to supporting those protesting Chavez's fascist ways. Libyan, Iraqis, and Iranians were/are being imported to bring up V. oil output to pre-lockout/strike levels. Along with these experts came a whole bunch of unsavory characters from the respective countries' intelligence services. Talked to a few Venezuelan acquaintances who, while they didn't have specific knowledge of this development, did say that Chavez has been very much in bed with Cuban and ME intelligence slime. Question: The Iraqis really don't have a home to go back to, so what does Hugo plan to do with them? Maybe have them look to el Norte and/or Colombia, perhaps?
Posted by: Michael || 09/08/2003 14:38 Comments || Top||

#3  I was not aware that baggage was being inspected on disembarking passengers. Somebody got a tip or is this now standard practice?
Posted by: john || 09/08/2003 21:52 Comments || Top||


Home Front
President Bush, Address to the Nation, September 7, 2003
Excerpted; full text posted at the official White House website.
For a generation leading up to September the 11th, 2001, terrorists and their radical allies attacked innocent people in the Middle East and beyond, without facing a sustained and serious response. The terrorists became convinced that free nations were decadent and weak. And they grew bolder, believing that history was on their side. Since America put out the fires of September the 11th, and mourned our dead, and went to war, history has taken a different turn. We have carried the fight to the enemy. We are rolling back the terrorist threat to civilization, not on the fringes of its influence, but at the heart of its power.
Like I've said before, Iraq, coincidentally, is in the heart of the Arab world.
This work continues. In Iraq, we are helping the long suffering people of that country to build a decent and democratic society at the center of the Middle East. Together we are transforming a place of torture chambers and mass graves into a nation of laws and free institutions. This undertaking is difficult and costly — yet worthy of our country, and critical to our security.
It's a fight we can't afford to lose...
The Middle East will either become a place of progress and peace, or it will be an exporter of violence and terror that takes more lives in America and in other free nations. The triumph of democracy and tolerance in Iraq, in Afghanistan and beyond would be a grave setback for international terrorism. The terrorists thrive on the support of tyrants and the resentments of oppressed peoples. When tyrants fall, and resentment gives way to hope, men and women in every culture reject the ideologies of terror, and turn to the pursuits of peace. Everywhere that freedom takes hold, terror will retreat.
But that will only happen after we've passed the tipping point. Until then, everywhere that freedom takes hold, terror will swarm in with its beturbanned minions to try and snuff it out...
Our enemies understand this. They know that a free Iraq will be free of them — free of assassins, and torturers, and secret police. They know that as democracy rises in Iraq, all of their hateful ambitions will fall like the statues of the former dictator. And that is why, five months after we liberated Iraq, a collection of killers is desperately trying to undermine Iraq's progress and throw the country into chaos.
They've figured the tipping point thing, too. We've forced them to make Iraq their Plan Z — an all-or-nothing thing. Unless they realize quickly that they can't win and withdraw from Iraq, resorting to nothing more than their usual tactics of torment, they're going to be as resoundingly defeated as they were in Afghanistan, as resoundingly defeated as Sammy was. Three strikes, you're out...
Some of the attackers are members of the old Saddam regime, who fled the battlefield and now fight in the shadows.
Those are the practitioners of the tactics of torment...
Some of the attackers are foreign terrorists, who have come to Iraq to pursue their war on America and other free nations. We cannot be certain to what extent these groups work together. We do know they have a common goal — reclaiming Iraq for tyranny.
Probably at this point there are multiple groups, all aiming for the big time, with Zarqawi — our primary enemy in Iraq — working to amalgamate them into a coherent force.
Most, but not all, of these killers operate in one area of the country. The attacks you have heard and read about in the last few weeks have occurred predominantly in the central region of Iraq, between Baghdad and Tikrit — Saddam Hussein's former stronghold. The north of Iraq is generally stable and is moving forward with reconstruction and self-government. The same trends are evident in the south, despite recent attacks by terrorist groups.
The Kurdish areas were generally stable and prosperous before the war — they're not Wahhabis. The Shias probably would have been the same, had Sammy not ruled with an iron but inept hand. Wahhabism is a Sunni phenomenon, and that's where the Sunnis live as well as where Sammy's base of power (and now unemployed henchmen) live.
Though their attacks are localized, the terrorists and Saddam loyalists have done great harm. They have ambushed American and British service members — who stand for freedom and order. They have killed civilian aid workers of the United Nations — who represent the compassion and generosity of the world. They have bombed the Jordanian embassy — the symbol of a peaceful Arab country. And last week they murdered a respected cleric and over a hundred Muslims at prayer — bombing a holy shrine and a symbol of Islam's peaceful teachings.
I'm not too sure I'd use the word "peaceful" with regard to Islam's teachings, but he's trying to avoid the perception of declaring war on all Muslims.
This violence is directed not only against our coalition, but against anyone in Iraq who stands for decency, and freedom and progress.
Without individual liberty, the first and last are impossible. Decency is relegated to the individual rather than being the mark of society. And progress implies a societal goal greater than the mere retention of individual power.
There is more at work in these attacks than blind rage. The terrorists have a strategic goal. They want us to leave Iraq before our work is done. They want to shake the will of the civilized world.
I hope he continues to refer to "the civilized world" in his speeches. The short attention span set tends to forget, or not to understand in the first place, that it's our very civilization we're defending.
In the past, the terrorists have cited the examples of Beirut and Somalia, claiming that if you inflict harm on Americans, we will run from a challenge. In this, they are mistaken.
But that makes me look closely at the statements by Bush's Dem challengers. They don't paint a pretty picture. Nor is it just the Dems. We can't forget Pat Buchanan and Harry Browne
The Americans who assume great risk overseas understand the great cause they are in. Not long ago I received a letter from a captain in the 3rd Infantry Division in Baghdad. He wrote about his pride in serving a just cause, and about the deep desire of Iraqis for liberty. "I see it," he said, "in the eyes of a hungry people every day here. They are starved for freedom and opportunity." And he concluded, "I just thought you?d like a note from the 'front lines of freedom.'" That Army captain, and all of our men and women serving in the war on terror, are on the front lines of freedom. And I want each of them to know, your country thanks you, and your country supports you.
We do, and at least one of us who contributes to Rantburg would be there if he was younger and still bent in the middle.
Fellow citizens: We've been tested these past 24 months, and the dangers have not passed. Yet Americans are responding with courage and confidence. We accept the duties of our generation. We are active and resolute in our own defense. We are serving in freedom's cause — and that is the cause of all mankind.
Bush is here complimenting the nation on what he thinks it can be, rather than what it actually is. The combination of short attention span, an active intentional and unintentional fifth column, and an antagonistic press dilutes the reality of what we are. Part of the fault for this lies with the Bush administration. I've said before that he should be reminding us, with each and every speech, of 9-11-01. The people of the U.S.A. should be exposed to the Friday sermons at Mecca and the cries for enslaving Jewish (and later Christian) women. Americans should know the name and opinions of Hafiz Saeed and Qazi and Hamid Gul and all the other wonderful Learned Elders of Islam. We should know it, it should be taught in every school, starting from grade one.
Thank you, and may God continue to bless America.
Posted by: Mike || 09/08/2003 6:53:06 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Short translation: This is harder then it looks and we need more money.
Posted by: Hiryu || 09/08/2003 8:10 Comments || Top||

#2  Short translation: This is as hard as it looks and it's going to cost money.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 8:35 Comments || Top||

#3  As the cost of post war Europe and Japan was? And when will our troops come home since the war is over, with neat surrender ceremonies as well? Short Attention Span Theater indeed. Then again as the NEA has insured we don't teach real history anymore in our public schools, what can you expect. But be assured people, they will insist this year your children learn about how wonderful, modern, and respectful Islam is.
Posted by: Don || 09/08/2003 9:05 Comments || Top||

#4  Short translation: This is just as hard an I told you it would be, it's going to cost money -- but we're making progress and it's worth the investment.
Posted by: snellenr || 09/08/2003 9:08 Comments || Top||

#5  I wish he would have been a little bit forceful that this is not the 'War on Iraq' which the media insists on calling it but the 'War on Terror'. I still don't think the media gets it (or they do get it but refuse to say so for political reasons).

Good that he pointed out that most of Iraq is stable and progressing and that authority is being turned over to the Iraqis. By what is reported in the media most people think Iraq is a burning anarcy (sp?).

Don You are right about history not being taught in public schools anymore. I mean WWII might offend the Japanese, Italians and Germans and the Civil war might offend Southerners and then you have slavery and the subjugation of the 'native americans'. No wonder people think that appeasement and sining song and lighting candles will solve the problems.
Posted by: GregJ || 09/08/2003 9:29 Comments || Top||

#6  This is as hard as it looks and it's going to cost money.

Annual cost of Vietnam War: 1.5% of GDP. 2003 cost of Iraq War: 0.5% of GDP. My suspicion is that the follow-on costs will be much lower, given that some of it is going towards reconstruction (due to 20-odd years of neglect, from the time of Saddam's ascension to power). In addition, I see many of our troops getting withdrawn in the years ahead, just like in Afghanistan. Iraqis will decide their own future, while a division or two of US troops backed up by air power will keep regional powers at bay.

Vietnamization (i.e. the transfer of security responsibilities to Iraqis) is the way to go. The alternative is the kind of quagmire we're encountering in Korea - where an ungrateful local ally places us in danger of war with every border clash, while cutting defense spending, figuring that they can always count on Uncle Sam to come to the rescue.

Here's something I posted on another blog comparing Iraq and Vietnam:

In Vietnam, we lost 20 KIA on a good day. In Iraq, we're sustaining one KIA every other day. That's 1/40 the losses in Vietnam.

Actually, I'm understating the scale of how well Iraq compares to Vietnam. We took the kinds of casualties we did in Vietnam with 500,000 troops fighting the VC and about a million South Vietnamese troops keeping order. Today, we have perhaps 50,000 Iraqi militia (keeping order) and 150,000 troops in theater (keeping order and fighting terrorists). We had 8x the security personnel in Vietnam working for us, yet sustained 40x the casualties. It is just amazing how successful the postwar mission in Iraq has been.

I understand that people want to set up new standards in the wake of the Kosovo bombings, but Iraq is many times the size of Kosovo and is inhabited by a people who have spent their lifetimes imbibing anti-American propaganda (just like South Koreans). More to the point, unlike Kosovo, Iraqis were not on the verge of being wiped out by Saddam, and enjoyed the benefits of a social welfare state paid for by Iraq's oil riches.

People are asking for a zero defect occupation (i.e. zero KIA, zero infrastructure problems, sweetness and light from the Sunni and Shia clerics and pure gratitude from ordinary Iraqis) - and that's simply not going to happen. But Iraq will recover from this war - far faster than either postwar Europe or South Korea. And the funny thing is that two or three years from now, when the situation in Iraq has stabilized, our so-called allies are going to be clamoring to get into Iraq. When that happens, I am sure that Iraqis will prove to be just as grateful to American companies as South Koreans have proven to be today.* (Pause for a belly laugh).

* An example: one of South Korea's non-tariff trade barriers is to gather, from car dealers, lists of people who buy American cars and conduct tax audits on them.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 10:01 Comments || Top||

#7  In Vietnam, we lost 20 KIA on a good day. In Iraq, we're sustaining one KIA every other day. That's 1/40 the losses in Vietnam.

You'd never know this listening to the media. The news on one of the local TV stations here spoke of a "rising death toll" (of COURSE it's rising, just not in the manner they want you to think).
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/08/2003 10:47 Comments || Top||

#8  I support our effort in Irag. But, having gone through VN, I wonder if folks who present casualties as statistical analysis have an understanding of how that sounds to the guys in the dirt. It's so McNamara. I can guarantee you that they are wondering why the victory has resulted in buddie's bodies continuing to make their way into the medevac system. They'll do their job, but they'll wonder. And with the mainstream media determined to create a 2nd Vietnam mentality, facts be damned, we need to understand that the grunts need to hear that we feel for them.
Posted by: Highlander || 09/08/2003 11:12 Comments || Top||

#9  ZF: Good post. See Safire's column in the NYT today "The Failuremongers".
Posted by: Matt || 09/08/2003 11:17 Comments || Top||

#10  But, having gone through VN, I wonder if folks who present casualties as statistical analysis have an understanding of how that sounds to the guys in the dirt.

The guys in the dirt need to put their situation in context. Vietnam was less horrendous than Korea and Korea was less horrendous than WWII. War is hell. We don't need to make it even worse on the troops by putting out negative spin about what is essentially a cakewalk. It's less of a cakewalk than Kosovo, but then again, we rescued Kosovars from annihilation, whereas at least hundreds of thousands of Iraqis benefitted from Saddam's regime.

McNamara has been roundly abused by critics on the right and left, but the truth is that he did not lose South Vietnam. The casualties we took in Vietnam were the result of an administration that would not invade North Vietnam. Lyndon Johnson was fearful of repeating the carnage of the Korean War, with the associated Chinese intervention, and fell into an even bigger trap - we fought in Vietnam for a longer period of time, spent more money and took more casualties than in Korea. In the end, not unifying Vietnam probably cost more in American lives than an invasion would have.

Bottom line - whatever our problems in Vietnam, McNamara was just making the best of a bad strategy. Journos like to distort his use of numbers to make it sound cold and heartless, but without a strategy involving the crushing of North Vietnam, attrition was the only thing he had to fall back on. And body counts are the primary measure of attrition. (My beef with McNamara is not with his use of statistics, but with the self-imposed limitation on an outright invasion of North Vietnam. Given our unwillingness to invade, we needed a way to keep score).
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 11:41 Comments || Top||

#11  Cost of war (2003 $):

Iraq: 156 billion (for 18 months)
Vietnam: 494 billion (for 90 months)
Korea: 336 billion (for 37 months)

Monthly Cost of war (2003 $):

Iraq: 8.7 billion
Vietnam: 5.5 billion
Korea: 9.0 billion

% Annual cost of was as % of Annual GDP

Iraq: 0.8%
Vietnam: 1.3%
Korea: 3.8%

Annual cost per capita

Iraq: $312
Vietnam: $245
Korea: $567

source: http://www.cwc.lsu.edu/cwc/other/stats/warcost.htm
Posted by: . || 09/08/2003 12:23 Comments || Top||

#12  I bet if the figures were adjusted for inflation they would closely resemble the % GNP stats.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 12:29 Comments || Top||

#13  Cost of war (2003 $):

figures are adjusted for inflation...
Posted by: . || 09/08/2003 12:32 Comments || Top||

#14  Total casualties (killed+wounded)

Iraq: 1,730
Vietnam: 211,441
Korea: 136,935

Casualties per month

Iraq: 96
Vietnam: 2,349
Korea: 3,701

Annual Casualties per 10,000

Iraq: 0.05
Vietnam: 1.26
Korea: 3.00
Posted by: . || 09/08/2003 12:44 Comments || Top||

#15  Y'all cut out the best part of the speech:
We have learned that terrorist attacks are not caused by the use of strength; they are invited by the perception of weakness.
Now, make each Deanocrat write that on the chalkboard 500 times.
Posted by: someone || 09/08/2003 13:28 Comments || Top||

#16  The guys in the dirt need to put their situation in context... what is essentially a cakewalk.
In this discussion we have reached a gap in experience. It's never a cakewalk when you're down range. The context of the trooper is killing time and then keeping from getting killed. And, BTW, the reason we lost South Vietnam is that the average Vietnamese wasn't willing to put his butt on the line for South Vietnamese government(s). The North just wanted it more than the South did.
Posted by: Highlander || 09/08/2003 14:23 Comments || Top||

#17  Cost of war (2003 $):

Iraq: 156 billion (for 18 months)
Vietnam: 494 billion (for 90 months)
Korea: 336 billion (for 37 months)


Cost of 1 WTC attack: $100 billion
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 14:27 Comments || Top||

#18  Now, make each Deanocrat write that on the chalkboard 500 times.

And even if they did, I don't think they are capable of believing it.
Posted by: eLarson || 09/08/2003 14:33 Comments || Top||

#19  It's never a cakewalk when you're down range.

It never is, and every death or wounding is a tragedy for the nation, and a horrible loss for the family members of the soldier involved. But if we look at every setback (and each death or injury is a setback) as the end of the world, we'll never muster up the determination we need to push through to the finish. As MacArthur once said, in war, there is no substitute for victory - and unnecessary negativism will cause the public to shrink back in fear, which is why we need to keep things in context.

And, BTW, the reason we lost South Vietnam is that the average Vietnamese wasn't willing to put his butt on the line for South Vietnamese government(s). The North just wanted it more than the South did.

Actually, the ARVN suffered over 200,000 KIA. It's not just a question of wanting. The US cut off aid to South Vietnam in 1974, even as North Vietnam was loading up on debt from China and the Soviet Union for the heavy weaponry it would need to conquer the South. Let me assure you that North Vietnam did not have the industrial capacity to either build Migs, artillery, ammo and T-54's or pay for them. But that is what they used to finish off the South Vietnamese government during their blitzkrieg in 1975. And we had cut military aid to South Vietnam in 1974. Decades later, unified Vietnam was still paying off loans from its communist allies for that weaponry.

Here's an interesting excerpt on the run-up to Hanoi's 1975 blitzkrieg:

Even more devastating and inexcusable, in 1974 Congress began cutting back on military aid for South Vietnam at a time when the Soviets were increasing their aid to North Vietnam. As a result, when the North Vietnamese launched their all-out invasion of the South in the spring of 1975, they had the advantage in arms, and the threat of American action to enforce the agreement was totally removed. A year after the collapse of South Vietnam, the field commander in charge of Hanoi's final offensive cited the cutback in American aid as a major factor in North Vietnam's victory. He remarked that Thieu "was forced to fight a poor man's war," with his firepower reduced by 60 percent and his mobility reduced by half because of lack of aircraft, vehicles, and fuel.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 14:46 Comments || Top||

#20  Zhang Fei

We all know the price paid by the Vietnamese and Cambodian people. May the people who voted for this, may the people who lobbied for this, roast in hell.
Posted by: JFM || 09/08/2003 15:09 Comments || Top||

#21  I suspect that they didn't make it for the money but for the symbol. No hell is hot enough for them.
Posted by: JFM || 09/08/2003 16:46 Comments || Top||

#22  I hate arguements about Vietnam. Vietnam was a problem only because the Democrats played politics with national security and war. Vietnam was screwed up because the Democrats (i.e. Johnson) screwed it up, period. Even with our opposition to Clinton we did not undermine Kosovo, Bosnia, Somalia, etc. But it appears that once again the Dems are prepared to play politics with another war.

Now for fun lets compare some operations.


East Timor U.N. Site East timor was touted by Kerry as a model operation by the U.N. It took the u.n. 3 years to stablize a country with under 1 million people, and in the process the U.N. started they first caused 500,000 to be displaced from their homes and 250,000 to leave the country (pretty startling numbers for a country of 800,000). Or how about Kosovo? Kosovo has a population of just over 2 million. We are still there 10 years later and no local government has been establish, neither has any local law-enforcement? Why, because once the Albanians came back they went after the serbian minority. Over 200,000 of the serbs have left Kosovo now and those who are left are protected by Nato Forces (again, startling numbers since before the war only 10% of the population was Serbs). The situation is getting worse and I am sure unless we give Kosovo over to the Albanians they will eventually turn on the Nato forces.


Once looking over these operations come back and tell me again how bad a job we are doing in Iraq (maybe you would prefer the Chechen model?). A quick war that resulted in NO REFUGEE PROBLEM and the majority of the infrastructure in-tact) If this was a U.N. operation we would still be trying to bring Refugees back into the country. Instead we have a popluation pretty much in tact and sitting around waiting for us to put them back to work. There was also a Large Secret Police society (the bathist), a problem that the U.N. has not had to deal with in either of the above operations. We have ONLY had 4-5 months and our boys are hunting them down. The only similiar situation to this is Germany after WWII in which Hitler Youth and SS (warewolfs) continued to attack our troops into the 50's. The brunt of the attacks although stopped after the first year once the Germans realized we were not going to leave. At that point the Germans themselves started fighting the Nazi's.


Therefore if you think it is a good policy to argue that Americans are cowards and America is now to cheap/weak to do what our grandparents did after WWII (and during a depression) and we need to bend over and ask the Europeans for help then keep trying to sell that. Plenty of Strong dedicated americans have woken up after 9/11 and have gotten back involved. I am sure for years to come they are willing to fight and do what is necessary to win this war! God Bless our Troops and the great job they are doing!
Posted by: Patrick || 09/08/2003 17:11 Comments || Top||

#23  "The only similiar situation to this is Germany after WWII in which Hitler Youth and SS (warewolfs) continued to attack our troops into the 50's. The brunt of the attacks although stopped after the first year once the Germans realized we were not going to leave." (Patrick)

Sorry, but this is Rumsfeld/Connie spin. The only significant attack the "werewolves" ever launched was the assassination of the mayor of Aachen (March 25th 1945), that is BEFORE Germany capitulated. The few werewolves after the war were hapless young guys (15, 16 years old) who disintegrated weeks later without having achieved as much as killing a single U.S. soldier. The German cooperation with the US forces was there immediately, and it took only weeks before fraternization started (Fräuleins, ya know).
The Soviet occupants tortured and imprisoned thousands of young Germans who had spoken out against them, as supposed "werewolves". The "leaders" were forced to sign "confessions" and were shot in the ex Nazi camps of Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald and others. Many of them were sent to labor camps in Siberia for 25 years. Not a single one of them has been proven a "werewolf".

I know what I'm talking about: I was one of them.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/08/2003 18:35 Comments || Top||

#24  I like GW, but he is a lame speaker. Spending some time studying great orators (Chamberlain, Hitler, William jennings bryant etc) would produce more effective speaking.

A good plan doesn't always speak for itself.
Posted by: flash91 - fatwah you talkin bout willis || 09/08/2003 19:31 Comments || Top||

#25  I'm going to have to disagree with the folks who are blaming the Democrats mainly and/or only for the loss of South Vietnam are missing the target.

It was Nixon's fault, for providing the initial framework for the plumbers & CREEP and for attempting to cover up the Watergate crimes. Without Watergate as a distraction/disaster/focal- point-for-dissent, the Presidency wouldn't have been weakened to the point that Congress had the power to eliminate the funding for South Vietnam. Jerry Ford was a nice guy, but he wasn't the one who was going to find a way to get those armaments shipped out.

(Obligatory disclosure -- I'm a lifelong Repub, who admires Nixon for his smarts and the things he did right -- but also reviles him for the massive thing he screwed up.)
Posted by: snellenr || 09/08/2003 19:33 Comments || Top||

#26  Snippets from the Religion of Peace...

"O believers do not take the Jews and Christians as friends or supporters etc... they are just supporters of and love each other only, whoever does that is one of them."

"As for the feelings that we must have towards non-Muslims, the Messenger Muhammad (saw) was once asked by a Jew 'Do you like me?' to which he replied 'No, I hate you, but I will never be unjust towards you' i.e. that he would treat them in accordance with the divine justice of Islam although he (saw) had no love whatsoever in his heart towards the Jew."
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/08/2003 20:58 Comments || Top||


Iran
Iran warns pressure to open nuclear facilities could backfire
Iran's chief delegate to the U.N. atomic agency warned the United States and other nations ahead of a Monday meeting that nuclear tensions could be aggravated if they put too much pressure on Tehran to open its programs to inspectors.
"Don't make us do something stoopid..."
Ali Akbar Salehi said Iran still was open to negotiating the inspection issue with the International Atomic Energy Agency, but indicated the offer could be withdrawn if IAEA board meeting ''disrupted the whole process.'' The meeting likely will urge Iran to make its nuclear program accessible by agreeing to a protocol allowing tougher IAEA inspections without notice. Under strong international pressure, Iran last month offered to negotiate the IAEA protocol. Monday's meeting also will ask Tehran to explain agency findings that the Americans and others say point to the existence of a covert nuclear weapons program. ''We are sitting on a very thin edge,'' Salehi said. ''It could tilt one way or the other very easily.''
"We're trying to be reasonable, but every time you mention the world "nuclear" we start to loon out..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/08/2003 00:08 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hope everyone (meaning the US) keeps intense pressure on the Iranians. Like, what are they going to say, "We need enriched uranium er nuclear power because we are running out of oil and gas even though we are flaring off enough gas to light up the country. Might as well catch them up in their own lies, even if just for the spittle spectacle value.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/08/2003 0:30 Comments || Top||

#2  Pressure is good. Shutting down NK first would close the spigot on missile technology proliferation.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/08/2003 7:55 Comments || Top||

#3  Good point, Super Hose [still can't get used to the name, LOL]. We'll see who wins the prize for the most intransigent and stupid. If the NORKS are shut down, then the major supplier of bomb and missle components is gone. If Iran is shut down, then a major consumer is down. I would like to see Iran's capability degraded or shut down. They would then be on the downhill slide and money would start drying up for Hizbollah and co. This would take some heat off Israel.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/08/2003 8:35 Comments || Top||

#4  If NK leaves the weapons market, do the Russians and Chineese step in or does the market starve?

The Russians and Chinese are supplying weapons technology to our enemies. We sell neither ballistic nor cruise missiles to our allies (except for the UK). China and Russia do both. We don't transfer nuclear, biological or chemical weapons expertise to anyone. China and Russia do both. Some of this proliferation is pure commerce, and an attempt to defray huge fixed R&D and tooling costs, but some of it is a calculated strategy of arming America's enemies to keep American power in check.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 10:24 Comments || Top||

#5  Obviously the Iranians don't have enough oil to go around. The western world should cut off sales of Iranian oil if they do not stop.
Posted by: Yank || 09/08/2003 10:52 Comments || Top||

#6  The western world should cut off sales of Iranian oil if they do not stop.

Impossible to enforce except by blockade. If Iran is willing to sell its oil at a slight discount, there will always be willing takers. China, for example, would probably be glad to strike what it would describe as a blow against American hegemony by buying Iranian oil. Note that the Chinese president Jiang Zemin's final lap before handing over the reins to his successor was to visit each and every one of the most oppressive oil-producing states in the Mideast, including Iran and Libya.

A leaky blockade is possible, given that Iraq now borders a number of the 'stans*, but it would take a lot to get our European allies to go along. For them, relations with Iran are all about the oil.

* Give the 'stans enough financial incentives (through the foreign aid budget) and they'll tighten the spigots. The embargo won't be perfect, but it will be enough to bring the mullahs to their knees.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 11:18 Comments || Top||

#7  Impossible to enforce except by blockade.

Oh come on, Zhang Fei, don't you read the news? All you need to do is blow up the pipelines!
Posted by: Tom || 09/08/2003 12:52 Comments || Top||

#8  Or go the Iranian tanker war route and start sinking ships.
Posted by: Yank || 09/08/2003 13:50 Comments || Top||

#9  We can't do anything as the Iranians will get pissed. Blockading is useless, It's like a buffer zone. Hey, I've got an idea. Knock out the oilfields in Iran, sabotage their pipelines. Seize the Saudi oilfields and attack certain members of the elite. Just do it and deny it. Bring down Chavez in Venezuela. Just do it and deny it. Say something like "Our saddness over this matter is profound". Ya know, might work.
Posted by: Lucky || 09/08/2003 14:02 Comments || Top||

#10  Oh come on, Zhang Fei, don't you read the news? All you need to do is blow up the pipelines!

An attack on pipelines wouldn't completely destroy Iran's ability to sell oil. Oil is also transportable via water routes and by truck. This is how Iraq evaded some of the sanctions. But attacking Iran isn't a military problem - it's a diplomatic one. Any kind of military action against Iran is going to have to surmount some pretty high diplomatic hurdles in order to get our so-called allies on board.

I think domestic public opinion-wise, though, Iran will be a cinch compared to Iraq. Between the hostage crisis and the Marine barracks bombing, the Iranians have a lot to answer for.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 09/08/2003 14:13 Comments || Top||

#11  I don't know about you, but I'm increasingly losing interest in diplomacy with our so-called allies. Save the diplomacy for our real allies. The rest be damned.
Posted by: Tom || 09/08/2003 14:46 Comments || Top||

#12  Do notice that I said "the western world should" that would mean Europe and the Anglosphere agreeing to not purchase Iranian oil. If that happened there are few other nations with the ability to move oil to market so it doesn't matter who else breaks the boycott. It's wishful thinking to think the French would do anything in the wests best interests if it meant siding with the US without bribes, etc, but I can dream anyway.
Posted by: Yank || 09/08/2003 16:32 Comments || Top||

#13  Alaska Paul, If NK leaves the weapons market, do the Russians and Chineese step in or does the market starve?

Mr. Super Hose---The Russians have already been marketing purported countermeasures to some of our military offense and defense systems. They need the money. Pooty-Poot cannot be trusted. The Chicoms will do the same. We KNOW that they are liars and thieves. I do not see that we have too much leverage to control the above. So it is a race with drying up the money sources (Mainly Saudi and Iran) with possible military action against nuclear weapons related sites. Then you have Pakistan. They have ties with the Chicoms, and making deals with the Paks is like signing an agreement with someone with multiple personality disorder. This is the breeze-gale before the storm. I can feel it in my Strontium 90-infested bones.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/08/2003 16:43 Comments || Top||

#14  So the weapons market stays about the same regardless of how you work the supply side. You recommend going after the damand side like we're doing.

Why would pushing the issue backfire if nuclear weapons are against Islamic Law like the Iranians were sauying today? Obviously, they have no attention of endangering their standing with Allah so the inspections will be a breeze...
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/08/2003 20:20 Comments || Top||



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