A giant asteroid is heading for Earth and could hit in 2014, U.S. astronomers have warned British space monitors. But for those fearing Armageddon, donât be alarmed — the chances of a catastrophic collision are just one in 909,000. (Same chances of Dean being elected)
Asteroid "2003 QQ47" will be closely monitored over the next two months. Its potential strike date is March 21, 2014, but astronomers say that any risk of impact is likely to decrease as further data is gathered. (Dems wonder how this will affect voter turnout in the midterm elections)
On impact, it could have the effect of 20 million Hiroshima atomic bombs, a spokesman for the British governmentâs Near Earth Object Information Centre told BBC radio. The Centre issued the warning about the asteroid after the giant rock was first observed in New Mexico by the Lincoln Near Earth Asteroid Research Program. "The Near Earth Object will be observable from Earth for the next two months and astronomers will continue to track it over this period," said Dr Alan Fitzsimmons, one of the expert team advising the Centre.
... whom no one would have ever heard of outside the astronomy community if he wasn't hollering "We're all gonna die!"
Asteroids such as 2003 QQ47 are chunks of rock left over from the formation of the solar system 4.5 billion years ago. Most are kept at a safe distance from the Earth in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. But the gravitational influence of giant planets such as Jupiter can nudge asteroids out of these safe orbits and send them plunging towards Earth. I say we start a HUGE party about Summer 2013 and just keep it going until the big day. About a month prior we all sober up and start an all-out war against anybody who has ever said anything bad about the U.S. (starting with Canada). About a week prior we should launch a premptive nuclear strike on France, Germany, Syria, and the PRC. The day before âsplashdownâ President Condi Rice should have the Presidency over to Hillary, after she grants amnesty to ALL criminals.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) ||
09/02/2003 10:58:29 AM ||
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Well, good. I've had about enough of those midget asteroids...
Celestial roulette isn't really this predictable, though. Nice "chicken little" reporting, probably win an award of some sort.
#3
Sorry, but my day planner doesn't go that far out. And we wouldn't have this problem if Bush had signed the Kyoto accords.
Posted by: Matt ||
09/02/2003 11:23 Comments ||
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"Dems wonder how this will affect voter turnout in the midterm elections"
new Dem strategy - play everyone as victims and the asteroid as a "wedge issue", which can only be solved by raising taxes on the rich
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 11:25 Comments ||
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#5
Personally, Ptah, I'll wait until I know where it's gonna hit. May be some place convenient. The list is growing.
Posted by: Tom ||
09/02/2003 11:30 Comments ||
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#6
Don't forget the obligatory "...women and minorities hardest hit."
Kyoto accords... heheh, first good laff o' the day.
Posted by: Mark IV ||
09/02/2003 12:09 Comments ||
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#7
Bush-Cheyney are in cahoots with Haliburton to bring the asteroid to Earth. Apparently there is oil inside.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 14:10 Comments ||
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#9
It's the nickel. Have you seen the price of nickel recently? The strike at INCO cut the supply (now their back to work I hear), the Russians cut theirs... perfect time to get into nickel.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 14:17 Comments ||
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#10
I'm sure this is all Reagan's fault somehow. Everything else is.
#16
Check out the JPL Site for the latest on the orbits.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 19:57 Comments ||
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Clearly we need to elect Hillary in 2012 to open a channel and negotiate with the asteroid. The asteroid's violent behavior is clearly a call for help because society has failed it. After all, it takes a village!
Posted by: Dar ||
09/02/2003 19:58 Comments ||
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Coming up next:
Asteroids: Why do they hate us?
#20
Dar, great idea, but I think that we also need a more nuanced approach to the laws of physics, which conservatives clearly cannot provide. Have you ever watched a conservative jump up in the air? They always come right back down, showing their pathetic need for certainty and their simplistic interpretation of Sir Isaac Newton. Despite her substantial mass, Hillary just kind of floats there,
Posted by: Matt ||
09/02/2003 20:22 Comments ||
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#21
eLarson, I think that's 2012.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 20:26 Comments ||
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#22
This is entirely the fault of Bill CLinton for lying about a BJ that we had to spend MILLIONS of dollars to discover
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 22:05 Comments ||
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A giant asteroid is heading for Earth and could hit in 2014,..
Launch Mike Moore (or Not) into space without sufficient escape velocity, and the above scenario just might happen....
Afghan and U.S. troops overran three suspected Taliban positions and pinned down fighters in a cave Tuesday as fighting raged on in southern Afghanistan, the U.S. military and an Afghan commander said. American bombing echoed through the mountains as the troops tried to root out hundreds of Taliban holdouts who have offered a week of fierce resistance. Coalition forces clashed with five- and 10-strong groups of fighters firing small arms and rocket-propelled grenades, U.S. military spokesman Col. Rodney Davis said. The troops had cornered a group of insurgents in a cave and were attacking it Tuesday afternoon using small arms fire, artillery and air support. Pity we donât have flamethrowers anymore.
There were no reported coalition casualties in the latest fighting, Davis said. He had no details on Taliban casualties. Gen. Haji Saifullah Khan, the main Afghan commander in the battle area in Zabul provinceâs Dai Chopan district, said U.S. warplanes and helicopter gunships hammered Taliban positions until shortly before dawn Tuesday. Khan said the Taliban had been pushed back from three hideouts Tuesday but were continuing to hunker down, using the rough terrain as their shield. "Itâs a huge mountain with many gorges in it. It provides very excellent shelter against bombing," said Khan, who spoke to The Associated Press by satellite phone from the front lines. The commander said his men would offer the Taliban in other hideouts a chance to surrender — then move in. "We have tightened our siege. We are very close to the Taliban positions," he said. "We will try to make them surrender. If they do not surrender then fighting will start." Letâs not have another Tora Bora, shall we?.
Khan said U.S. warplanes targeted the Sairo Gar mountain area. His ground troops found bedding and turbans but no weapons at the three locations — Kafir Shaila, Kabai and Ragh.
If they left their turbans, you know they left in a hurry...
There was no ground fighting as the Taliban simply retreated from their positions. The U.S. military has been involved in the fighting since it began about eight days ago. Since Saturday, they have dubbed their role in the skirmishes as "Operation Mountain Viper." The military said U.S. special operations forces and soldiers from the 10th Mountain Division were involved along with close air support. The military would not say how many U.S. soldiers were involved in the fighting, though Afghan officials have put the number at several hundred. "As a result of the offensive, several anti-coalition elements have fled the area making them more vulnerable to attack," Davis said in a statement from Bagram Air Base, the coalition headquarters in Afghanistan. Have to expose yourself in order to run.
Betcha Mullah Omar was among those running from their Famous Victory™...
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 9:16:11 AM ||
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UPDATE:
On Monday, a provincial religious leader, Mulvi Abdul Rahman, told AP that he had spoken to tribal elders in the area and asked them to pass along an offer on behalf of the Zabul governor to the Taliban: Lay down your weapons and we will allow you to return home.
Rahman said he had not received a response, but that negotiations to end the battle peacefully where ongoing.
Lay down your weapons and go home? What kind of surrender is that?
Any odds that negotiations will fail and we will go in and find that everyone as slipped away during negotiations?
#8
UPDATE: Afghanistan's Taliban has sent 300 more fighters to the southern province of Zabul to help battle Afghan government and U.S.-led troops, a commander from the ousted militia said on Tuesday. Maulvi Faizullah, a senior Taliban commander involved in fighting in Zabul, said a fresh wave of militants had been deployed in Dai Chopan district to join up to 1,000 others who have been fighting in the area for the last eight days. The reinforcements were being led by former Taliban Education Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi, Faizullah told Reuters. They had been sent from Khost province in the east bordering Pakistan, he said.
"Hello, Maulvi,,hello, hello, I can hardly hear you. Yes, we are driving the merkins and their government lackies back. Send us more troops and we can drive them back to Kabul. What's that? I don't sound the same? Er, I was wounded, yeah, wounded, I'm ok though. Hurry up or you'll miss our victory!"
SF trooper drops phone, turns to another.
"OK, LT, they're coming. Call in the BUFFs"
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 13:07 Comments ||
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Napalm would be effective for caves, if you can identify the vents, if any. My friend used to fly P38s in the Pacific in WW2. In Borneo, they would have trouble with gun emplacements in caves equipped with blast doors. They would bomb all day, then when they stopped, enemy guns would start firing again. Then they decided to drop napalm over the whole mountain. So they dropped and dropped till the mountain was one big flame. After the fires went out....no more big guns. An examination of the caves after the bombing exposed hundreds of Japanese soldiers suffocated from lack of oxygen that the napalm fire took away. It works.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 13:55 Comments ||
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We could do that, but the UN would complain about 'in-human' act of war.
Posted by: Charles ||
09/02/2003 17:26 Comments ||
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Ok, so forget the Napalm. White Phos. would work in some cases.
#13
From a hosing standpoint, I suggest running a hose from the exhaust of any available internal combustion engine into the cave. Yearly, hundreds of Americans commit suicide in the garage using carbon monoxide. Nice quiet way for the mujihadin to slide in to a dirt nap the sleepy way.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 20:08 Comments ||
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AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Those who visit Amsterdam this summer, watching tourists patrolling the infamous Red Light district in search of sex and drugs, might not notice how the vaunted Dutch tolerance is wearing thin.
The Dutch, complaining that their culture of "looking the other way" has created a free-for-all, want to turn the clock back.
The toughest stance has been taken by Rotterdam, traditionally regarded as the working manâs city as opposed to Amsterdam, home of the cultural elite.
... wow. As I said in my previous post earlier today, other posters here have abilities tenfold of mine are thus should be consulted as to the proper responses.
On the other hand, the thought of the effete âculturalistsâ being run about by the working class, those who actually do (well, as much as is possible within a socialist country), just inspired an S&M joke ...
And behind the calls for more law and order is a growing tendency to blame crime on ethnic minorities.
*rolls eyes* And hereâs why conservatism and the right-wing in Europe has been discredited ... itâs usually racist. In America, that usually applies to our left.
Anywho, read the full article?
Posted by: Lu Baihu ||
09/02/2003 10:23:52 PM ||
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A Turkish Islamist leader could be extradited from Germany in a deal between Berlin and Ankara. German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said on Tuesday the interior ministers of Germany and Turkey will meet to discuss the extradition of Metin Kaplan.
"Really. We only need him for a coupla days. In fact, we only need part of him for a coupla days..."
The leader of a banned Islamist group based in Cologne, Kaplan is accused of treason by Ankara. But so far he has successfully resisted Turkish attempts to extradite him, arguing he will not face a fair trial if he returns home. A Cologne court last week turned down Turkey's bid to extradite Kaplan, citing concerns a Turkish court might use information extracted from witnesses who had been tortured. However, Schroeder said his government was appealing against the ruling, and said Germany and Turkey would discuss ways of ensuring concerns about a trial in Turkey are lifted.
"You guys take him, and welcome to him..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 15:47 ||
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If there's a Caliph of Cologne how about an Archbishop of Mecca
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire ||
09/02/2003 22:11 Comments ||
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I'm still trying to get my head around a jihadi named Kaplan
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 22:15 Comments ||
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Another day, another Balkans conflict.
Macedonian authorities say they will not withdraw troops encircling a northern village until they capture a fugitive rebel leader — ignoring demands by a shadowy ethnic Albanian militant group to end the siege. Hundreds of ethnic Albanian villagers have fled from their homes in Vaksince since the operation began Sunday, fearing clashes similar to those that shook the tiny Balkan nation in 2001. The clashes between government forces and ethnic Albanian insurgents ended in a Western-brokered peace plan, but tensions persist. Of course tensions persist, itâs the Balkans!
Troops and police have used helicopters, trucks and roadblocks to surround Vaksince, about 10 miles northeast of the capital, Skopje. ``There will be no negotiations, no consideration of any demands or ultimatums with the self-styled rebel commanders,ââ said Saso Colakovski, Macedoniaâs government spokesman. ``The government is determined to carry on without any compromise in a struggle to isolate these criminals.ââ Macedonian forces have massed troops around Vaksince in the search for Albanian militant, Avdil Jakupi. It was not clear if Jakupi was in the area, but reporters visiting Vaksince on Monday saw armed men in the almost empty village. Jakupi is believed to be a leader of the self-styled Albanian National Army, or ANA, which has taken responsibility for several armed attacks in Macedonia since the peace agreement took force. Fears of clashes have risen in recent weeks, following grenade attacks on government buildings in Skopje. Thatâll do it.
Fires me up, every time it happens...
Late Monday, ANA issued an ultimatum to the Macedonian police forces to withdraw from around Vaksince. In statement posted on its Web site, ANA gave a 24-hour ultimatum, expiring Tuesday afternoon, to Macedonian troops to pull out or its members would ``use any means available to accomplish a patriotic duty.ââ A threatening note on a website. Sigh,I miss the good old days when your rebel forces had to storm a radio station, and fought off the storm troopers while the beautiful heroine pleaded for the people to rise up while the anthem of the old republic plays in the backround.
The group said in a fresh statement Tuesday that its forces were on standby for the ``liberation of (ethnic Albanians) ... and unification of ethnic Albanian lands in a single state.ââ Greater Albania(tm), yeah, thatâll go over well with the neighbors.
International officials in Macedonia, meanwhile, searched for a solution to defuse the standoff.
Damn. Phillip's dead...
Ethnic Albanian parliament members and deputies from the northern Kumanovo region, where Vaksince is located, agreed to accompany representatives from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, to Vaksince to negotiate an end to the standoff. You want an end, just kill him.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 12:47:58 PM ||
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I demand a homeland for the Albanians... Oh, sorry I didn't know. Never mind.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 20:21 Comments ||
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Terrorist organization, the Kurdish Workers Party - Kurdistan Freedom and Democracy Congress (PKK-KADEK) Leader Abdullah Ocalan claimed that by encouraging Kurdish nationalism, the U.S. intended to divide Turkey. Damm, he exposed our plan.
Ocalan admitted that Kurdish nationalism in Northern Iraq was a threat to Turkey. Currently in Imrali Prison, Ocalan made some interesting remarks in meetings with his lawyers last week and requested that his statements be conveyed to government, General Staff and the National Intelligence Organization (MIT). "Please, tell them Iâll say what ever they want. Just stop hitting me there."
Ocalan suggested that the U.S. tried to divide Turkey after Iraq, as the U.S. and Germany had developed Arabic nationalism in order to break up the Ottoman Empire. Really? Wow, you learn something new every day.
Ocalan said that he would no longer send messages to PKK-KADEK. Fred, if we are trying to divide and conquer Turkey like he says, the least you can do is give Turkey itâs own heading. Itâll be easier when we have to post all those troop movements.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 10:25:18 AM ||
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Uh, shouldn't Turkey be in Asia ? 99% of it is in Asia.
#4
Germans? I blame the Germans for alot, but Arabic nationalism? The Germans had the most to lose in World War I as the Ottoman Empire collapsed; their War Minister kept whoring around for the best deal and eventually came down on the side of team Deutchland. Something's rotten in Denmark, perhaps he's addicted to giggle juice?
Posted by: Brian ||
09/02/2003 13:20 Comments ||
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Gotta watch those crafty Chermanns--remember that Zimmermann telegram! /sarcasm
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 14:18 Comments ||
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Looks like Abdullah Ocalan has decided to send a few messages after all: Tuesday, September 1, Kurdish rebel leader Abdullah Ocalan, head of the Kurdish Workers Party â PKK - announced his movement, meanwhile renamed itself KADEK, was reviving the Kurdish revolt. âIf (Turkey) does not change its attitude, they (PKK rebels) will look after themselves. Roads will be blocked, fighting will break out, the tourism industry will collapse. These actions are necessary for the rebelsâ survival,â Ocalan said.
I guess maybe that was the message he asked his lawyers to pass to the government.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 14:43 Comments ||
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Well, Murat, give us your on-the-spot take on Ocalan and his Merry Men, if you please.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 15:22 Comments ||
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Sounds like Ocalan has become a real Turkish government mouthpiece after his imprisonment. The macho, trash-talking terrorist of old is now reduced to a marionette dancing to the tune of the Turkish government. How the mighty have fallen...
#10
A few hours with a hot poker will change his mind, I'm sure.
Posted by: Charles ||
09/02/2003 17:34 Comments ||
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If Turkey allowed the Kurdish regions to go independent, returned Constantinople and Cypress to the Greeks, carved out a little are for the few surviving Armenians, perhaps then the EU would allow them to join. Probably not though, not until there are more Moslems in France than Turkey.
#13
I don't think that any sane American would encourage a general Khurdish uprising in an area that we are responsible for security in. Seems like our troops are stretched thin and tired already. Maybe the Turks were speaking figuratively. Like the American Revolution is inspirational to Khurds because the colonials were demanding representative government with a federal type system. That must be it.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 20:26 Comments ||
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There you go again Aris, bashing a noble, American tree, the cypress,--will you stop at nothing in your anti-Americanism?! /sarcasm
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 22:19 Comments ||
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#15
Ocalan, speaking in a high soprano voice.....
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 22:22 Comments ||
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Gunmen opened fire on a funeral for two political party workers slain earlier Tuesday, killing three people. The assailants, who sped off in a vehicle, opened fire as mourners left a graveyard after burying two activists of the Muttahida Quami Movement, which represents Muslims who migrated from India. Among the dead in the shooting at the funeral was Qari Yaqub Abdullah, a cleric of a Sunni Muslim mosque. Police believe he was caught in the crossfire as he stood outside his mosque when the attackers sprayed the area with gunfire.
"Qari! Duck!... Oooh! That's gotta hurt!"
There were no arrests and no reported claim of responsibility. An investigation was under way, said Tariq Jamil, deputy inspector general of police in Karachi. Tuesday's funeral was for Asif Jatan and Naveed Murtaza, who were shot and killed in a pre-dawn attack in Terror Central this restive port city.
Three deaders in a funeral for two shows the gunnies are starting to slip. Ideally, it would have been one apiece. That way, the next set of funerals could have killed 3 x 3, or 9. Seventeen iterations would see virtually the entire population of Pakland extinct (129,140,163 deaders). Personally, I think this sort of thing should be encouraged.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 13:59 ||
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Three deaders in a funeral
Wasn't that a movie with whats-his-name, Hugh Grant?
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 14:20 Comments ||
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no, that was Hillary's bio pic: "Eight Heads in a Duffle Bag". Starred Joe Pesci as Hillary
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 14:35 Comments ||
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EFL
MOHMAND AGENCY, Pakistan -- Until recently, this remote tribal region on the Afghan border was the last of Pakistanâs "no-go" areas, a lawless realm of parched mountains and mud-walled villages where not even the army dared to tread. Smugglers operated with impunity here, and so, some say, did the Taliban and al Qaeda. Wonder if the army feared going there or just saw no need to...
But this June, Pakistani soldiers moved into Mohmand Agency, one of seven tribal areas that have been brought under government control for the first time in Pakistanâs history. The situation is now so tranquil that the army recently organized a helicopter tour for Western journalists, showcasing a well-digging project and smiling villagers bearing trays of ice-cold Pepsi-Cola. hiding the ZamZam and Mecca Cola in the back for the "good customers"
"We donât allow Taliban here," said Mohammed Shah, 45, a wiry-looking laborer who was among the well-wishers in the village of Faqir Wala. "If they come, we will throw them out." he said, reading from the script
The army organized the tour to counter charges by the U.S.-backed Afghan government that Pakistan is allowing Taliban fighters to use its border areas as a base for stepped-up operations against U.S. and Afghan forces in southern and southeastern Afghanistan. Such attacks, including recent large-scale assaults on police posts, have forced aid groups to curtail some relief and reconstruction efforts and raised doubts about plans to hold national elections next year.
They also are a cause of growing concern in Washington. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said after a visit earlier this month to Kabul, the Afghan capital, that Pakistan was "not doing as much as it can" to secure its border with Afghanistan. Pakistani officials deny they are aiding the Taliban, saying they are committed to helping the government of Afghan President Hamid Karzai while emphasizing the challenge of preventing illegal movement across the rugged frontier, much of which is not even marked.
Some analysts and Western diplomats, however, are skeptical of Pakistanâs assurances. They cite reality Pakistanâs historical ties to the Taliban, its animosity toward members of the former Northern Alliance militia who now dominate Karzaiâs government and its growing anxiety over links between Kabul and India, Pakistanâs historical nemesis.
In particular, Pakistani officials accuse India of using newly reopened consulates in the Afghan cities of Kandahar and Jalalabad to stir up tension between Pakistan and Afghanistan, especially along the border. "I would not say the policy has gone to overt or covert support for the Taliban, but there could be a process of benign neglect," said retired army officer Ikram Majeed Sehgal, who retains close links to Pakistanâs security establishment as the head of the countryâs largest private security firm. Of course, itâs the Indos....Mossad/Jooooos too, I bet
"Given the fact that the Northern Alliance has taken over, [Pakistani security forces] would not crack down [on the Taliban] with the same enthusiasm they would have a year earlier," he added. "Now their worst fears have come true. The Indians have planted themselves in Kandahar and in Jalalabad."
A Western diplomat suggested that Pakistani intelligence agents still maintain "lines of communication" with fugitive Taliban leaders, who share Pakistanâs hostility toward India and the Northern Alliance. If nothing else, the diplomat added, Pakistani officials perceive such contacts as "an insurance policy" in the event that Karzaiâs government fails and the Taliban returns to power in some form.
So, the Paki paranoia justifies keeping the Taliban around as a countermeasure? Riiiggghhttt. Pakland is our enemy. Time to play friendly with India
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 10:45:21 AM ||
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When even The Post doesn't appear to buy it, you got ... ummmmmmm... credibility problems.
At least 12 people have been killed in three separate attacks in Indian-administered Kashmir in an upsurge in violence. Thirty people have also been injured in a landmine explosion along a key highway linking the stateâs summer and winter capitals. More than 20 people have now died in two days of violence in the restive region which is disputed between India and Pakistan. It follows the proven alleged killing of a top Pakistani Kashmiri terrorist militant by Indian forces over the weekend.
The landmine blast took place along the Srinagar-Jammu highway, damaging an army vehicle as well as a civilian bus. A defence spokesman said dozens of soldiers and 17 civilians were wounded. The Hizbul Mujahideen militant group has said it carried out the attack.
Suspected militants are said to have killed five members of a Muslim family overnight, in Doda district. They included a village headman, his two brothers, son and a female relative. The headman, Khadim Hussain, is said to have defied a call by militants to step down from his post.
In another incident, police say they killed five militants in a shoot-out in the mountainous district of Poonch. A policeman was also killed in the exchange, they said.
Also on Tuesday, one alleged militant was killed in an apparent suicide attack on an Indian security camp near the stateâs summer capital, Srinagar.
Late on Monday night suspected militants blew up a bridge on Thousands of vehicles, including military trucks, were stranded for hours while the authorities repaired the breach.
The latest burst of violence follows a bloody weekend in Kashmir, during which Indian forces claim they killed a top militant, Ghazi Baba, after a 10-hour fire-fight. Ghazi Baba, of the Jaish-e-Mohammad group, is alleged to have been the brains behind a string of spectacular strikes against India in recent years.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/02/2003 7:24:30 AM ||
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It was reliably learnt that more than a dozen army officers are under arrest for their alleged links with a religious organization but the ISPR claimed there were only âthree to fourâ officers. The arrested army officers are being investigated to find whether they had any links with the group of Major General (Retd) Zaheerul Islam Abbasi, who, along with his trusted lieutenants, had attempted to dislodge Bhutto during her second tenure as prime minister. Abbasi and his lieutenants were all members of the Tablighi Jamaat, and they did a fairly amatuer job of attempting a coup. One of the members of the plot was the leader of the Harkat ul Jihad Islami, who was released without charge in return for giving evidence against the army officers.
âI came to know about the arrested officers only through newspapers,â Major General Zaheerul Islam Abbasi told The Nation when contacted to confirm the information. Abbasi, who was later arrested and sentenced to jail for plotting a coup against the government, is now leading a political party after completing his jail term.
The Field Investigation Unit, or FIU, of Pakistan Army had arrested these officers recently but the matter was not made public. These officers, one of them Assistant Adjutant General and Quarter Master General Lt. Col. Khalid Abbasi, were arrested from Kohat. Major General Zaheerul Islam Abbasi and his group was also arrested from Kohat.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/02/2003 6:12:52 AM ||
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so these guys arent connected with Hamid Gul and MMA?
#2
As a Naval Officer, I was probed several times. I suggest that this guy demands gloves and lubrication by the doctor. Also during the probing and the doctor has a hand on each of your shoulders.....
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 12:58 Comments ||
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Around 50 Pakistanis arrested in Italy for entering the country illegally and suspected of being linked to Al Qaeda were deported to Lahore late on Monday. The men had been detained in Italy for the last one year. They reached Pakistan on a chartered plane. Sources said there were seven youngsters among the 50 Pakistanis who were arrested from a ship and they were suspected of having links with Al Qaeda. However, they were released after investigation. Others were arrested for overstaying their visas in Italy while some were arrested for using forged travel documents
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/02/2003 6:06:37 AM ||
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Is there actually an arm of the government of Pakistan that issues legitimate visa and passports? There has to be at least on set of valid paperwork, for all these forgers to forge off of.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 20:40 Comments ||
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No one could imagine three-foot something RigolettoNoor Moahmmed Tantray could have anything to do with terrorism. His slight height and his innocent looks were, in fact, his biggest assets in the missions he undertook for the Jaish-e-Mohammed terror outfit. A resident of Jammu and Kashmir, Rigoletto Tantray was arrested Saturday from the Azadpur market in north Delhi when he was preparing to assassinate the Duke of Mantua pass on arms and ammunition to Pakistan-based Jaish members for carrying out terror strikes here. "We are quizzing him about the entire Jaish network. He joined Jaish in 1999 and was in close touch with a leader who was taking orders directly from Ghazi Baba," said Assistant Commissioner of Police Rajbir Singh, who along with his crack police team gunned down two Jaish men, including one Pakistani national Saturday night. The two men were waiting for Rigoletto Tantray who was to provide them the smuggled arms. Security forces gunned down Ghazi Baba, the Jaish commander in Jammu and Kashmir, in Srinagar on Saturday. "We are also trying to find out how the terrorist modules were getting money for carrying out their operations," Singh told IANS. "He is an important catch for us."
Intermezzo...
According to police, 31-year-old former tailor Tantray needed Dire Revenge on the Duke, because the Duke was diddling his daughter, Gilda began by helping the Jaish in smugglings goods, arms, ammunitions and money to modules. He hooked up with an assassin named Sparafucile He was also trained in explosives in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Duke didn't know that the lovely Gilda was the hidden-away daughter of his court jester and companion in debauchery.Rigoletto Tantray had it easy for years because of his short height as no one suspected what his frequent visits to Srinagar were meant for. That, and he always stopped by to see Gilda, and they would sing duets together in her garden. He was caught when he returned here on August 28 in a truck laden with explosives that were hidden among crates of fruit. Delhi Police discovered the truck, with Jammu and Kashmir registration plates, parked in the Azadpur wholesale market. "We mounted surveillance and when we saw a midget climbing up on to the roof of the truck Saturday to check its contents, we moved in and caught Rigoletto Tantray," Singh said.
"Hot damn, Mukkerjee! Listen to that midget sing!"
Rigoletto Tantray initially tried to bluff his way out but could not explain the arms and ammunition stashed in the vehicle.
"Ummm... Not with me, signore! Somebody musta left 'em here..."
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/02/2003 6:05:39 AM ||
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#1
Picture (via LGF) on Yahoo:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030901/241/54ng5.html
#4
I wonder what his next mission would have been.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 10:42 Comments ||
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#5
Obviously this guy performed yeoman work for OSL in Tora Bora. Each time he identified an inbound airstrike, he yelled out, "the plane, boss, the plane...."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 10:58 Comments ||
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#6
Mini-Mo?
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 11:35 Comments ||
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#7
"We represent the Lolipop Guild, the Lolipop Guild,the Lolipop Guild,"
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
09/02/2003 12:05 Comments ||
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#8
They got little hands
Little guns
They walk around
Blow things up for fun
They got little daggers
In their tiny little teeth
They wear explosive shoes
On their nasty little feet
Well, I don't want no Short Terrorists
Don't want no Short Terrorists
Don't want no Short Terrorists
`Round here
Posted by: Mike ||
09/02/2003 13:01 Comments ||
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#9
This thread should go to "Rantburg Classics".
Posted by: Matt ||
09/02/2003 16:49 Comments ||
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Boston Globe Opinion, By James Carroll, 9/2/2003
THE WAR IS LOST.
Oh, woe! I shall pause here to rend my garments...
By most measures of what the Bush administration forecast for its adventure in Iraq, it is already a failure. The war was going to make the Middle East a more peaceful place.
Eventually...
It was going to undercut terrorism.
It did that when Sammy bumped off Abu Nidal. It did that when we shut down the PLA. It did that when we shut down MKO. It did that when we beat up Ansar al-Islam. It did that when we got all the intel leads that we're presumably following. It continues to do that with the swarm of Bad Guys coming into the country for our guys to shoot...
It was going to show the evil dictators of the world that American power is not to be resisted.
It's not. They can all face the vision of being bumped off, stuffed and mounted in the aftermath of a 3-week campaign in which we lose very few men and they lose everything...
It was going to improve the lives of ordinary Iraqis.
It's improved the lives of those who haven't been tossed into mass graves...
It was going to stabilize oil markets. The American army was going to be greeted with flowers. None of that happened.
Some of it happened. Some's still happening...
The most radical elements of various fascist movements in the Arab world have been energized by the invasion of Iraq.
Rock: if they look soft, their people will kill them. Hard place: if they continue with their tough-guy ways, we'll kill them...
The American occupation is a rallying point for terrorists. Instead of undermining extremism, Washington has sponsored its next phase, and now moderates in every Arab society are more on the defensive than ever.
Didn't we realize we were going to move to a new phase? I think most of us did. If the Bad Guys lose Iraq, we'll have an island of stability — and eventual prosperity — in the middle of a sea of despotism and self-imposed poverty. We all knew they couldn't afford to let us keep it, just like we can't afford to let them take it away from us...
Before the war, the threat of America's overwhelming military dominance could intimidate, but now such force has been shown to be extremely limited in what it can actually accomplish.
Just ask Uday and Qusay. Oh, not talking, eh? Ask, ummm... 44 of the 55 members of the playing cards club...
For the sake of "regime change," the United States brought a sledge hammer down on Iraq, only to profess surprise that, even as Saddam Hussein remains at large, the structures of the nation's civil society are in ruins.
As they were before we brought the sledge hammer down on them. They had 34 years of inefficient dictatorship, pissing away the national wealth on palaces, guns, bombs, and military adventures while the infrastructure decayed around them...
The humanitarian agencies necessary to the rebuilding of those structures are fleeing Iraq.
Some are. Some aren't. Some are temporarily but will be back, once things have settled...
The question for Americans is, Now what?
I'd say kill Sammy, wipe out as many Qaeda and allied thugs and we can find, keep the Iranians from trying to gnaw off part of the country, and build the government that'll run things when we're gone. What's your opinion?
Democrats and Republicans alike want to send in more US soldiers. Some voices are raised in the hope that the occupation can be more fully "internationalized," which remains unlikely while Washington retains absolute control. But those who would rush belligerent reinforcements to Iraq are making the age-old mistake.
Ah, yes! The age-old mistake of using military force to meet a military threat! Why didn't we see that? (Ow! Hurt my forehead...)
When brutal force generates resistance, the first impulse is to increase force levels. But, as the history of conflicts like this shows, that will result only in increased resistance.
Whereas cutting out troops, even withdrawing all of them will result in... uhhhh... increased resistance, followed by a take-over by the kind of guys we threw out in the first place. Brilliant. Why didn't I realize that?
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has rejected the option of more troops for now, but, in the name of force-protection, the pressures for escalation will build as US casualties mount. The present heartbreak of one or two GI deaths a day will seem benign when suicide bombers, mortar shells, or even heavier missile fire find their ways into barracks and mess halls.
Which it probably eventually will, a few times. On the other hand, the moderate casualties we're taking — we're not talking about Kursk or Normandy or the invasion of Okinawa here — will seem worth it when Iraq's a peaceful and prosperous country (or more likely three countries) under a democratically elected government (or governments)...
Either reinforcements will be sent to the occupation, or present forces will loosen the restraints with which they reply to provocation. Both responses will generate more bloodshed and only postpone the day when the United States must face the truth of its situation.
And pray tell, whose blood will be shed as we're being forced to face the truth of our situation? If it's our blood being shed and none of the Bad Guys, we're in trouble. If we're shedding blood in the pursuit of wiping out the Bad Guys, then we're paying a price to achieve our objectives. We do have eventual objectives, y'know...
The Bush administration's hubristic foreign policy has been efficiently exposed as based on nothing more than hallucination.
Now we're down to the meat...
High-tech weaponry can kill unwilling human beings, but it cannot force them to embrace an unwanted idea.
Nope. You need to persuade them. But first you've got to get their attention, don't you?
As rekindled North Korean and Iranian nuclear programs prove, Washington's rhetoric of "evil" is as self-defeating as it is self-delusional.
Where's the delusion in the assumption both states are evil? One of the two is the most evil state on the face of the earth. The other's middlin' evil with its own people, but they've been purveyors of fine terrorism since 1979...
No one could have predicted a year ago that the fall from the Bush high horse of American Empire would come so hard and so quickly. Where are the comparisons with Rome now? The rise and fall of imperial Washington took not hundreds of years, but a few hundred days.
I must have missed the thump. Need some Imperial Rome analogies? When the Goths showed up, the Romans, fat and happy and prosperous, tried to accomodate them with land and dialogue. Next thing you knew, Aetius was winning Rome's last battle in Gaul, Honorius had him assassinated, Attila fell in love with Galla Placida, and then the whole shebang collapsed.
Sooner or later, the United States must admit that it has made a terrible mistake in Iraq, and it must move quickly to undo it.
"Sammy! Sammy! Come out, come out, wherever you are! All is forgiven!"
That means the United States must yield not only command of the occupation force, but participation in it. The United States must renounce any claim to power or even influence over Iraq, including Iraqi oil. The United States must accept the humiliation that would surely accompany its being replaced in Iraq by the very nations it denigrated in the build-up to the war.
Yes! Yes! Humiliate us! Make us lick the Arab toes! Oh! It hurts so good!
With the United States thus removed from the Iraqi crucible, those who have rallied to oppose the great Satan will loose their raison d'etre, and the Iraqi people themselves can take responsibility for rebuilding their wrecked nation.
Just as soon as those who have rallied to oppose the Great Satan take over the reins of power, execute everyone who doesn't agree with them, and then impose some sort of "Arab prosperity" like Syria has or like Muammar's imposed on Libya for all these years...
All of this might seem terribly unlikely today, but something like it is inevitable.
We're doomed! Oh, woe! (Damn! My garmen't already rent...)
The only question is whether it happens over the short term, as the result of responsible decision-making by politicians in Washington, or over the long term, as the result of a bloody and unending horror.
I'll go with the bloody and unending horror. You never know. We might pull something out...
The so-called "lessons" of Vietnam are often invoked by hawks and doves alike, but here is one that applies across the political spectrum. The American people saw that that war was lost in January 1968, even as the Tet Offensive was heralded as a victory by the Pentagon and the White House. But for five more years, Washington refused to face the truth of its situation, until at last it had no choice.
Meanwhile, a wise and Democrat Congress kept cutting funds until the poor South Vietnamese ended up trying to fight off North Vietnamese tanks with shovels...
Because American leaders could not admit the nation's mistake, and move to undo it, hundreds of thousands of people died, or was it millions?
I dunno. Hundreds of thousands, I think...
The war in Iraq is lost. What will it take to face that truth this time?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 20:50 ||
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Fred---posting and commenting on Boston Glob(e) articles will cost Rantburg big time in megabites, but not as much as a typical Murat posting with its cornucopia of comments. Heh heh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 20:58 Comments ||
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Fred -- Love your comments.
Someone is confused. The war in Iraq is WON. What is happening there (as expected) is the war on Terrorism. Does this alledged person feel that we should hide under our beds and allow 9/11 to happen over and over and over again?
And when it does happen this guy (and Kerry and Gepheart) will be whining about "why didn't Bush do something about it! Lets have a congressional hearing!".
Looks like he really enjoyed protesting Vietnam and is sticking with what he knows.
Posted by: Matt ||
09/02/2003 21:47 Comments ||
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The "Bush Lied" meme has gone nowhere and is being replaced by "Bush Lost". I expect to hear a lot of harping of this one over the next few weeks. I wonder what they will come up with after this one fails to take off.
Hum --- looking for a Pulitzer Prize with this writing? Don't think it will even be entered.
Seems, you've read what I have --- that it was the "American people" that took to the streets and press, that brought us down in Vietnam.... and, sharing that glory places you back with those folks of the 60's....
Well.... there are some of us, from those days, that got with program, and never could understand where all the hatred was coming from. I saluted those guys coming home..... my first love was one of those.....
Now..... thanks to the Net.... you can back in time.... and repeat all those writings of that era. Yes, you did a simple Google search and found just the words you wanted. Nothing original in your thoughts â youâre words read like those I read in the late 60's... If I wasnât so into my âseniorâ years, I could probably do an extensive search.. and find all your words, already put together. You want an original thought? Each day, search forth on the Web, and you will find, those stories of success happening everyday, over there, with our guys and gals.... Try that approach.... It will bring you closer to that Pulitzer Prize you seem to hold as the gold. Yes â if I were a âjournalistâ of the ânational papers of claimâ.... wanting that gold medal of the Pulitzer, in these times.... I would take the opposite attack of every one else!!!!!!! Yes, become a standout as the one being different! Sheeezzz.... and become part of the truth, as you begin to stand out...
You are in a minority here... and in a minority you will stay and stand..... 'Cause..... unlike those days of the 60's (I was there) we have 9-11.....
And nothing... nothing.... compares to what happen to us.... on 9-11....
So tuck you tail between your legs.... and go home.... silently..... we promise to be careful with you... to "feel your pain."
Posted by: Me ||
09/02/2003 22:31 Comments ||
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#6
This guy continues the great Boston Globe tradition of hack columnists and is part of the reason the paper's becoming a joke up here. He'll be spouting the party line til the day he dies. The beautiful people this rag appeals to will eat this up, but as far as I'm concerned, all the Globe's good for is as a great tool to pick up dogshit when I take the mutts for their walks. Haven't read it in years. Even their sports guys have political agendas. Ridiculous.
#7
Man, it doesn't take much for some people to turn into complete cowards, does it? Four whole bombs? Wow! Katy bar the door and let's skedaddle! It's no longer amazing to read what guys like this write: it's predictable. A setback or two or three and it's over, the unbeatable Baathists cannot be stopped! Run, Run, Run Awaaaaay!!!
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
09/02/2003 23:39 Comments ||
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#8
And to think, somebody actually pays this guy for his verbal diarrhea. [[shaking head vigorously]] No wonder the East Coast is in such trouble!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/02/2003 23:49 Comments ||
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#9
The 68 Tet was a major US victory. We did not see any Viet Cong units larger than fire team or squad sized very often after the Tet. We decimated their command structure and killed most of their best cadre and leader. After 68 most of the combat units we saw in the field were NVA units. At one time, the NVA had all but one of their combat ready divisions in the south with para military and militia providing security in the north.
Tet of 68 was a public relations disaster and the first example of the media shaping perceptions contrary to reality. Much as they are twisting Iraq into a perceived failure now.
We had more 18 year olds drop dead of drug overdoses last year than we have lost in combat in Iraq. We on average have more kids killed in drive by shootings in the US last year than have been killed in Iraq. And more interestingly, the Baathist have killed more Iraqi citizens in the three bombings, UN HQ, Najaf and Baghdad police station than all of the US casualties in the conflict to date.
Because of my experiences, kicking the VC's and the NVA's ass in Viet Nam and having Congress sell RVN down the drain by prohibiting military aid to RVN. ( I bet you don't remember that the collapse in the SOuth was percepitated in large part by a cut off of military aid to the south) and now reading essentially the same editorials, dusted off with "Iraq" substituted for "Viet Nam".
Much like Korea, we should be carpet bombing Manchuria Syria and Cambodia Lebanon instead of limiting our military options to when they actually start shooting at us.
We should run all of the media out of Iraq, take the gloves off and finish this thing and then when we get it cleaned up, the bodies buried and the blood washed from the sidewalks, then let the little dimwitted little leftist back in to whine and complain and try to dig up some atrocity or other.
A unit of the 82nd Airborne Division ran across a large cache of weapons just south of Baghdad on Tuesday during an early morning patrol. Fox News' Mike Tobin reported that paratroopers seized wire-guided TOW anti-tank missiles, FA7 anti-aircraft rockets, a recoilless rifle, bagfuls of various improvised explosive devices, home bomb-making equipment and other weapons. Shortly after the discovery was made, the 82nd was fired upon at its forward operating base south of Baghdad. American troops couldn't see who was shooting at them, but forces responded by firing flares and scrambling the quick response team to locate the source of the hostility and eliminate the threat. They determined that three rounds were fired at 82nd Airborne troops. No one was hurt or killed in the gunfire. Tobin reported hearing a loud explosion and the sound of screeching metal during the battle, which lasted less than 30 minutes.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 20:09 ||
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Spiritual leaders of Iraq's Sunni Muslim minority have accused some Shias of launching a sectarian cleansing campaign in two holy cities.
Shucks. Golly. That's even worse than blowing people up, almost...
They also accused neighbouring Shia-dominated Iran of trying to fuel growing religious tensions in the country by reaching out to Moqtada Sadr, a powerful young cleric known for his virulent opposition to the US-led occupation. The Shias "have taken over the al-Hamza mosque, our only one in Najaf, and the Hassan bin Ali mosque, our only one in Karbala," a spokesman for the Council of Ulema (religious scholars), Sheikh Abdel Salam al-Kubeissi, said. "Emptying Najaf and Karbala of Sunni presence is a grave phenomenon akin to sectarian cleansing and (conducive to) the Balkanisation of Iraq," he said. He also accused Shias of taking control of 16 other Sunni mosques across the country, including a dozen in Baghdad. But Kubeissi said the Ulema Council had called for calm among its followers in the face of "provocations from some Shias."
... he said, his hand on the hilt of his scimitar...
"We are being quiet, not because we are cowards, but because in the current situation it is necessary that we remain calm." But in a broadside at Iran, the Ulema Council also accused the supreme leader of the neighbouring Islamic Republic, Ali Khamenei, of pressuring Shia cleric Moqtada Sadr to cut ties with the Sunnis. "We had a minimum of coordination with Moqtada Sadr but he changed about 40 days ago after a meeting with Khamenei in Iran," Kubeissi said. "Iran has entered the Iraqi scene. It looks badly on meetings between Shias and Sunnis, a fraternisation between (Sunni) mosques and the Husseiniyeh," or Shia holy places, he said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 15:43 ||
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Moqtada Sadr, a powerful young cleric known for his virulent opposition to the US-led occupation
Damn sometimes I wish O. Cromwell were still kicking. Mr. Sadr meet Mr. Cromwell he got game.
A car bomb has ripped through Baghdad's main police station, killing one policeman. At least two other policemen were seriously wounded and 19 others lightly injured. No occupation troops were killed. Witnesses said a huge blast tore through the Rasafa police station shortly after 11:00 on Tuesday, starting a large fire and sending clouds of black smoke spiralling into the sky. The person who carried out the attack may have been wearing an Iraqi police uniform. The attack occurred in a parking lot for stolen vehicles next to the capital's top police academy and across the street from the police headquarters and the Ministry of Interior. The explosion damaged the office of the US-appointed Baghdad police chief, Hassan Ali, who was not in the complex at the time of the attack. Police Brigadier Said Munaim said Ali was probably the target of the blast.
Looks like Ansar al-Islam's style is catching on...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 12:47 ||
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Nine of 25 people arrested in the deadly car bombing that killed a prominent Shiite cleric have links to al-Qaida, a senior police official said Tuesday. One of the nine was arrested while carrying a message that read, ``The pig has been killedââ - an apparent reference to the Ayatollah Mohammad Baqir al-Hakim, who died in Fridayâs attack along with scores of other people, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. Thought he was seen sending this in a e-mail? Maybe his controller gave him the message to send and had to write it for him. If so, maybe he wrote down the address as well.
The bomb was placed in a car stolen from an Iraqi government agency, which was parked overnight at the Imam Ali mosque before being detonated remotely as al-Hakim left at the end of Friday prayers, the official said. The nine include two Saudis and a Palestinian with a Jordanian passport, the official said. The rest were Iraqis, he said. I see a Palestinian, I think imported bomb expert.
Their alleged links to the al-Qaida terrorist network had been determined through interrogation, the official said, adding that they told police they had plans to target oil pipelines, electrical and water utilities and other political and religious leaders. The police official said several of the men carried satellite pagers through which they were able to communicate both inside Iraq and possibly to nearby countries. The FBI should be able trace where those pageâs come from. Donât know if the messages stay in a server some where.
Iraq has no cell phone system and most land lines of the old prewar telephone system have not been repaired. The official said 16 other suspects in the bombing had been taken into custody but their interrogation had been slowed because U.S. forces, under the direction of the FBI, had taken control of the investigation. He said the U.S. soldiers had forbidden local police to use their normal interrogation methods, which include physical violence. Of course, if we had let the locals handle it their way, the al-Guardian would be screaming from the mountain top about it.
Seven senior members of Saddam Husseinâs Baath Party also had been arrested since the bombing, but it was not known if they were directly linked to the mosque attack, the official said. Thatâs OK, they need to be in the jug on general purposes.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 12:24:46 PM ||
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Via The Professor from Zogby:
Imagine: the Shia are the majority in Iraq, and they were murderd and persecuted by Saddam's Bathist Sunni regime for decades; then, Bathist henchmen and al-Qaeda terrorists murder the one of the most revered Shia Ayatollahs in Iraqi Shia society, along with over 120 innocent other Shias; then, a large Shia crowd becomes aware that two al-Qaeda mass killers have sent an e-mail saying "mission accomplished: the dog is dead." And, what do they do? They hustle the two characters off to the "nearest police station ." They didn't kill them on the spot, ripping their limbs from their bodies, and disembowling them on the spot. They brought them to the police! This shows to me, if the story is true, that the majority of Shia want an Iraq that subscribes to rule of law and not the rule of men.
#2
I don't get all this hub-bub about them having al-Qaida ties. So what, they never wear them. They wear turbans, duh. I'm sure they got them for Father's Day and just keep 'em in the closet.
Sept. 2 â U.S. battlefield casualties in Iraq are increasing dramatically in the face of continued attacks by remnants of Saddam Husseinâs military and Iraqi peopleother forces, with almost 10 American troops a day now being officially declared âwounded in action.â
THE NUMBER of those wounded in action, which totals 1,124 since the war began in March, has grown so large, and attacks have become so commonplace, that U.S. Central Command usually issues press releases listing injuries only when the attacks kill one or more troops. The result is that many injuries go unreported.
The rising number and quickening pace of soldiers being wounded on the battlefield have been overshadowed by the number of troops killed since President Bush declared an end to major combat operations May 1. But alongside those Americans killed in action, an even greater toll of battlefield wounded continues unabated, with an increasing number being injured through small-arms fire, rocket-propelled grenades, remote-controlled mines and what the Pentagon refers to as âimprovised explosive devices.â
Indeed, the number of troops wounded in action in Iraq is now more than twice that of the Persian Gulf War in 1991. The total increased more than 35 percent in August â with an average of almost 10 troops a day injured last month.
Although Central Command keeps a running total of the wounded, it releases the number only when asked â making the combat injuries of U.S. troops in Iraq one of the untold stories of the war. Off course donât put a spot on Bushâs CV OUT OF SIGHTâ
With no fanfare and almost no public notice, giant C-17 transport jets arrive virtually every night at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington, on medical evacuation missions. Since the war began, more than 6,000 service members have been flown back to the United States. The number includes the 1,124 wounded in action, 301 who received non-hostile injuries in vehicle accidents and other mishaps, and thousands who became physically or mentally ill. Vietnam syndrome?
âOur nation doesnât know that,â said Susan Brewer, president and founder of Americaâs Heroes of Freedom, a nonprofit organization that collects clothing and other personal items for the returning troops. âSort of out of sight and out of mind.â
Klik the link to read the whole piece, thanx Stephen for the links youâve provided yesterday
Posted by: Murat ||
09/02/2003 7:33:13 AM ||
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The result is that many injuries go unreported.
So how do you know about them?
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 7:44 Comments ||
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An interesting story by Joe Klein :
Who Is Losing Iraq? Oddest of all, the Pentagon retains its neoconservative fantasy that Ahmed Chalabi of the Iraqi National Congressâwho misled the Administration on weapons of mass destruction and on the rose petals that would greet the American liberatorsâmay yet be coronated leader of a population that barely knows who he is.
Perhaps the defense ideologues remain hypnotized by Chalabi because the reality on the ground is so depressing. There will be no stability, and certainly no economic progress, until there is real securityâbut the three most likely paths toward security have severe drawbacks. The first is increased use of American troops and money. The money is inevitableâa supplemental appropriation of $60 billion, including $15 billion to $20 billion for reconstruction efforts, is being preparedâbut more troops are problematic because the Army is already overstretched.
How can an army of 1.4 million soldiers be overstretched by deploying 150.000 men?
Posted by: Murat ||
09/02/2003 8:02 Comments ||
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#3
".com baby blame it on the Turks"
Sure thing, Murat: You're my bitch, and Turkey's to blame. Happy?
"it releases the number only when asked"
Oh my GOD!!! You mean the "journalist" has to ASK? Next thing you know, CentCom will require that they leave the hotel bar, come in person to the coalition information office, and show their Press credentials!!!
#4
You're my bitch, and Turkey's to blame LOL
Urat - ya got a purty mouth on ya boy
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 8:21 Comments ||
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.com
Vernon Loeb of THE WASHINGTON POST says so, I did not write the article. I assume he is now nominee bitch too. :)
Posted by: Murat ||
09/02/2003 8:23 Comments ||
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#6
The U.S. went into Iraq knowing there was a good chance TENS OF THOUSANDS of soldiers would be killed, including via chemical/bio weapons. Ex-military and peaceniks alike shouted body-bag quagmire from every news studio that would take them.
The war will cost the U.S. hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars and THOUSANDS of dead and wounded. Do you think we're just fucking around for fun ? What the hell is your point ?
You think we don't know what's going on ?
Grow up. This is the most important thing the U.S. has done since WW II, not Grenada. That's why not being a 'door-mat' was such bad timing.
#7
Someone appears to have decided that since the frequent reports of Americans being killed in action weren't enough to make us cut and run, the ante needed to be upped to include the tens of men each day who get wounded in action.
At this rate, we'll soon be hearing about the "tens of thousands of men who are forced to wake up each morning in Iraq."
#8
Another thing... having done the usual google on Susan Brewer, and read some of her comments, I suspect that if she met Murat after reading his use of her words (and his other comments), she'd bitch-slap him up into the cheap seats...
#9
Did the U.S. press have this attitude
about occupying Germany and Japan after
WWII? Do these idiots really think we
should pack up and come home? And where
would that get us? [Murat, where do you
think you would be today if Hitler had
gone undefeated? Hint: you are not a
member of the "master race".]
Posted by: Tom ||
09/02/2003 8:56 Comments ||
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How can an army of 1.4 million soldiers be overstretched by deploying 150.000 men?
'cause not every Pvt. Tom, Major Dick, Cpl. Harry is fit for combat in a specialized region such as Iraq. (is that all you got for anti-US rhetoric, c'mon, you're slipping Murat)
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 9:16 Comments ||
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Anonymous
Which chemical/bio weapons are you talking about, the only chance of WMD risk would be if accidentally one of your own B52's dropped them. Powell's satellite photo proven WMDâs have vanished in thin air.
Posted by: Murat ||
09/02/2003 9:22 Comments ||
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#12
'cause not every Pvt. Tom, Major Dick, Cpl. Harry is fit for combat in a specialized region such as Iraq.
I see, in other words you have not enough Latinoâs applying for the American citizenship in your army whom you can waste away.
Posted by: Murat ||
09/02/2003 9:32 Comments ||
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#13
And if those WMDs did get out and into the hands of nasty people, Murat, there's at least as good a chance of them being used against Ankara as there is against Tel Aviv or NYC or London. The last time I checked, bin Laden still blames Attaturk for breaking up the caliphate, you think the over-hyped "Islamist" credentials of Erdogan and Co will save you guys?
I'm probably one of the most pro-Turk posters here on Rantburg, but it's a willingness to believe this type of crap that tends to cause most of the less than cordial reactions to your posts.
BTW, just remember that all our troops are doing to the Iraqi people is about the same of what your guys did to those Marxist bastards in the PKK a couple years back. I assume you don't think that the Turks carried out and death and destruction against the Kurds, so why the knee-jerk assumption when it comes to US forces in Iraq?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/02/2003 9:33 Comments ||
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#14
GASP! OMG! People are actually getting KILLED and WOUNDED in a war?
What's wrong??? That is not how it is done in Hollywood! We must stick our tail between our legs and pull out now and hide under our beds!
#15
Murat, we understand that our soldiers face death everyday. We do too. We just had a national holiday known as Labor Day though it is traditionally held in conjunction with a weekend giving us three whole days to kill ourselves. Last year over 400 Americans died on our highways and streets during this period. Annually, we killed over 42,000 as in 2002. And that is just the dead. Hundreds of thousands are maimed and injured. So a report of a soldier here or there killed or injured plays against the local news of mayhem and carnage on our local streets and highways. Only in the minds of the fringe is there any expectation that the Vietnam syndrome will emerge in anyone else's mind other than their own. They're the only ones stuck in a quagmire, of their own making.
Oh, you mean those photos of the mobile bio labs.
As to the WMD, seems that the Chinese just 'accidently' dug up some Japanese chemical weapons left over from WWII. Fifty years without being located, guess they didn't really exist except in the minds and now on the bodies of those Chinese workers. When the Iraqi WMD are shown I can expect you to say it's all a CIA plant. Of course. And why do you think anyone here will take you seriously.
Posted by: Don ||
09/02/2003 9:45 Comments ||
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#16
Murat - you invited it: ".com baby blame it on the Turks"
and it's just for you. You shouldn't bait your betters, son. You're not equipped for anything more demanding than working in a Call Center. If you don't behave, I won't get you any new batteries.
Folks, Murat is one of those special people who lives vicariously through others. Usually, they're fans of a pop idol or sports team or whatever. They revel in the successes of their idol(s). Murat, on the other hand, can be described as an anti-fan.
Yep. Sad, I agree. Consider how much better off he'd be were he to redirect this obsession to some other entity - one which gave him better odds. His fate is similar to our stevey. Only I'd guess that Murat would be more successful at Call Center work than stevey - whose challenges seem to exceed his capacity on every front. Murat's just a dyspeptic jackass with (appropriately) a massive inferiority complex. stevey's a true Hyde Park Ranger of New Jersey.
#17
Damn. The truth is out. The troops were wearing those chem suits purely for fashion. Typical hollywood cowboy americans. The Iraqis had chem suits just to keep warm in the chilly desert air.
#18
I see, in other words you have not enough Latinoâs applying for the American citizenship in your army whom you can waste away.
Yes, that's it. Sorry, but I used Tom, Dick & Harry as place holders for names and did not intend anything racial. Sort of like "Joe Blow", "John Doe", etc etc. Please do not infer I am a racist... lest I give you more ammunition God forbid.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 9:58 Comments ||
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#19
Rafael: Don't worry about it -- Murat was just riffing on the reports in the first days of the war about the Latino immigrants who were KIA before they'd received their citizenship, and who received it posthumously.
#20
As a retired squid, I can assure Murat that very few Navy guys (Seals excepted) would be much help to the people of Baghdad.
As for Gulf War syndrome, there were documented cases of flue among U.S. forces stationed thoughout SW Asia that were consistent with what is seen during peacetime.
As for injuries, the American military keeps close track and stats of every single injury. Every injury due to is studied locally and overall with the goal of eliminating every hazard possible. Our soldiers are not fodder. We spend our blood for the freedom of others.
Ironically, the most likely target of Sadaam's WMD was always Iran not Israel or the U.S.. So, in fact, our boys are dying for the lives of the civilian population of a coutry that hates us worse than the French do.
As for oil and economics, if that was our interest, we would have "liberated" Venesuala. They have plenty of oil and aren't $200B in debt. With respect to our "empire," the Venesualan people would have intergrated quite effective into our ever increasing latino majority. I also am unaware of any Venesualan having ever blown his/herself to bits to kill innocent bystanders while making a political statement.
Venesuala is also a beautiful place to visit or was before Chavez decided to fashion a new Cuba on the mainland of SA.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 10:28 Comments ||
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#21
Murat wrote: in other words you have not enough Latinoâs applying for the American citizenship in your army whom you can waste away.
I try to like you, Murat, but that crosses a line. We have 1.4 million men and women of all races, all different kinds of ethnic backgrounds, all types of people under arms. They have two major things in common: they're Americans (or will be soon), and they're honorable.
The young Latino men from outside the US who volunteered for our army are good people who volunteered for good reasons. I certainly won't tolerate anyone besmirching them or their honor.
You need to apologize for that, Murat.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/02/2003 10:37 Comments ||
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#22
Steve,
Murat just resents the fact that Europeans treat the Turks far -worse- that we do "Latinos." They are good enough (in the Euro-elite mind) to clean toilets or empty trash, while subsisting on the refuse from the bins, but they are not worthy of being EU citizens or serving honorably in the military for the purpose of acquiring the same.
Remember, it was the Ataturkist parties that betrayed us in the troop vote, -not- the Islamists. They did so out of a forelorn hope that by back-stabbing the one Western ally who treated them with even a minimum of respect, they'd be allowed into the EU.
Fat chance. Aris may be more open and non-hypocritical about his attitude, since he's Greek, but it is the same one that the other European opponents of Turkey's entry into the EU share. Choke on it, Murat.
Posted by: Ernest Brown ||
09/02/2003 11:23 Comments ||
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#23
Re: "Latinos" and the US, civilian & military ...
I teach at one of the US military academies, where cadets from all ethnic & racial backgrounds are well represented. A West Point or Annapolis degree is considered very prestigious and is essentially free to cadets ... in exchange for their commitment to service, they receive not only a top degree but also military pay while they are in school. But Murat is talking about enlistees who weren't citizens when they volunteered for service.
What Murat probably doesn't know - or is conveniently forgetting - is that the military is one of the classic ways for immigrants to the US to establish a middle class life for themselves and their families.
My father's parents came here from the social and economic chaos that was eastern Europe around 1900. He and most of his brothers and his brother-in-law served during World War II, & a few stayed in to become senior non-commissioned officers (who are key to US military effectiveness). Two earned college degrees while in military service.
In the next generation, mine, we are nearly all college graduates with professional careers. In other words, in 2 generations we have become comfortably middle class. And for many of us, the first step up that ladder was through military service.
It's also worth remembering, Murat, that many "Latinos" were BORN HERE, consider themselves Americans and are proud to serve.
Finally, "Waste away" may be the attitude of SOME societies to their enlisted soldiers, but that's not the impression I have of the Turkish army, whose professionalism I generally respect, & it is certainly not the attitude American leadership has to our enlisted soldiers.
Your comments do indeed cross a line. You owe the US and the memory of those Latino soldiers -- not to mention their families -- and apology. Your attitude and sniping do not do justice to the Turkish people I know and admire.
#24
I am an 88 graduate of USNA. Demographically speaking, there is a large percentage of Philipino-Americans in my graduating class. The Naval officer corp, in general, is full of decendents of stewards from the 30's, 40's and 50's.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 12:39 Comments ||
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#25
Murat, my 19-20 y.o. nephew just went into the infantry this past week. He will never be mistaken for hispanic. And my 33 y.o. cousin signed up over a year ago for the army, too.
If Turkey had given us that front, it would have made things easier.
I won't forget that. Guess we'll have to see which way the oil flows.
Americans who are paying attention are keeping 2 running columns, with US or with the Terrorists. That was not a throwaway comment, W just vocalized what we are doing. And what you fail to realize is that we and our young, your future leaders and tourists, ARE paying attention. Fortunately for you, they're paying more attention to phrawnce at this point in time.
#27
U.S. soldiers are being killed and injured in Iraq everyday (also, please, please do not forget the death of Iraqi civilians who suffer 10 times more casualties).
This is nothing to celebrate (sorry if I am unfair to you Murat, but I feel that attitude in your post), or ignore (this applies to many respondents).
Please stop comparing the U.S. casualties with deaths due to traffic accidents. Last year over 400 Americans died on our highways and streets during this period. Annually, we killed over 42,000 as in 2002.Don:. Well... people do not feel the same way about 9/11, right? Only 3,000 deaths!
The U.S. went into Iraq knowing there was a good chance TENS OF THOUSANDS of soldiers would be killed. Hey, Anonymous! this is just in: The United States is not an empire (yet?). U.S. soldiers are not some pawns in the hands of the emperor that can be sent to a war for some "grand" plans. Every soldier has a name, a family, friends. If you are going to send them to a war, you have to sure than there is a damn good reason. The question is whether the official reason is good enough. I don't think so. But, what the heck, I am not an American.
GASP! OMG! People are actually getting KILLED and WOUNDED in a war? What's wrong??? That is not how it is done in Hollywood! We must stick our tail between our legs and pull out now and hide under our beds!. GregJ: Yeah, i agree with you. As long as I am not the one getting killed or wounded, I am all for it.
Democratic countries do not engage in offensive war. Because, the elected officials have to convince the citizens that the sacrifice of human life is necessary for their common good - and there are few things worth for sacrificing yourself. America lost the war in Vietnam not because Vietnamiese were unbeatable, but because Americans lost their faith in the government.
With every KIA and WIA, Americans are questioning the reasons that have led to American involvement in Iraq and subsequent casualties. This is something different than being "soft".
#28
"They did so out of a forelorn hope that by back-stabbing the one Western ally who treated them with even a minimum of respect, they'd be allowed into the EU. "
Do you have any reason to believe that? I'd think they'd not be nearly as stupid as to think that in an issue where the EU itself was divided, any decision of theirs on this matter would make much difference on their entry. Half the countries in the expanded EU had gone along with the COW, after all.
I think that the Ataturkish (aka nationalistic) parties were more concerned about the Kurds forming their own state.
And I think that you blame it on the EU because, after all, it's the EU that's to blame for *everything*.
#29
This entire article is a piece of runny brown stuff. According to a friend of mine, ten of the seventy people that work for him have been injured. Only ONE of those required significant medical intervention, and that was to remove a three-inch piece of metal from his right thigh. Even HE was back to work in four or five days. For any of this to be worthwile to judge what's happening in Iraq, we'd need to know:
1. How many injuries are so minor they don't even require medical treatment.
2. How many injuries require outpatient treatment.
3. How many require medical treatment for more than 24 hours.
4. How many require serious medical treatment.
5. How many injuries are actually life-threatening.
As you go down the list, the numbers usually grow smaller and smaller, with the last (#5) being between two and five percent of the total. Unless you see this kind of a breakdown, the numbers blithly spewed by the "Hate-America-First" idiotarians mean nothing.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/02/2003 13:19 Comments ||
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#30
Riddle me this, Murat, how have those oppressed militants in occupied Kurdistan, the PKK, done against your elite force? How many thousands have you lost? You're the best force in the region, something you should rightly be proud of, but your record is infinitely worse than ours when you adjust for population and military size. In short, bugger off.
Posted by: Brian ||
09/02/2003 13:38 Comments ||
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#31
Democratic countries do not engage in offensive war.
Yes I agree. It is far better to wait until the mushroom clouds dissipate and half the country is made uninhabitable because of radiation before declaring war, but only after the UN approves first. In fact, it is just far better to surrender, you know, America being the root of all evil doesn't deserve to exist. And don't forget the oil, it's all about the oil!
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 13:45 Comments ||
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#32
Riddle me this, Murat, how have those oppressed militants in occupied Kurdistan, the PKK, done against your elite force? How many thousands have you lost? You're the best force in the region, something you should rightly be proud of, but your record is infinitely worse than ours when you adjust for population and military size.
... and also my cock is bigger than yours, Murat!!!
Yes I agree. It is far better to wait until the mushroom clouds dissipate and half the country is made uninhabitable because of radiation before declaring war
We all are safer now, because the U.S. picked up all the WMD that Saddam possesed, right? By the way, why don't you invade N.Korea or Pakistan. They are the ones with nukes. Ahhh. silly me. I answered my own question.
only after the UN approves first. In fact, it is just far better to surrender, you know, America being the root of all evil doesn't deserve to exist. And don't forget the oil, it's all about the oil!
Thank you Rafael, but I can speak my mind without your help. So, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for military service in Iraq?
#34
Tug: Yeah, i agree with you. As long as I am not the one getting killed or wounded, I am all for it.
Soldiering's just another job, except that it's a little more hazardous than most, if there's a shooting war. Tug is basically saying that only people in the armed services should get to decide whether to go to war - i.e. the military should become a state within a state. I don't think so.
Not everyone who supports this war has signed up in the armed services, just as not everyone who opposes it has signed up to help the terrorists.* On our side, having masses of people sign up would have no useful impact on the war on terror - we don't have the budget to support them. I'm not entirely sure what we would do with 50 m enlisted men, anyway. It's not a matter of guts - if a draft is required, we will institute one. The need just isn't there, unless we decide to launch a wide-ranging invasion of the Muslim countries that are supporting the terrorists. This was my hope when the towers fell, but our political leaders shrank from picking up the gauntlet.
* Tug might say that he is not pro-terrorist, but objectively, if he is not for the crushing of the terror movement's means of support, he is for the terrorists.
#37
Tug might say that he is not pro-terrorist, but objectively, if he is not for the crushing of the terror movement's means of support, he is for the terrorists
" Yes, doctor, there are terrorists everywhere. They are in Iraq, they are in the middle east, they are in America. They are now in Rantburg, too. They are trying to get me, but I will expose their cover. By the way, you are not a terrorist, are you - doctor "
Posted by: Ernest Brown ||
09/02/2003 14:27 Comments ||
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#39
Tug, you sound vaguely.... German???
"when are you going to volunteer for military service in Iraq?"
If need be I'll go... don't you worry about that.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 14:29 Comments ||
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#40
Tug: Yes, doctor, there are terrorists everywhere. They are in Iraq, they are in the middle east, they are in America. They are now in Rantburg, too. They are trying to get me, but I will expose their cover. By the way, you are not a terrorist, are you - doctor
Believe me, when a major American city brews up, we may just burn your city to the ground with you and all your friends in it. We tested two of these in Japan.
#41
At the risk of repeating myself, given that Tug is so opposed to what he views as our evil war in Iraq, I feel compelled to re-pose the question: "So, Tug, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for jihadi service in Iraq?" If he really believes the war is so evil, why is he not signing up to fight our boys?
Ahh... one of those dreadful words! I am a German. No, wait... it is worse. I am a French, who is working in the U.N. That explains all, doesn't it? Ignore my posts. Let's go back to "us against the world (sorry... I mean terrorists) galaxy", where everything is either black or white, and the lone star GWB (aka G. Cooper) fights all terrorists on his own, saving the town but getting no credit.
#43
Let's go back to "us against the world (sorry... I mean terrorists) galaxy", where everything is either black or white, and the lone star GWB (aka G. Cooper) fights all terrorists on his own, saving the town but getting no credit.
Let's go back to "us against America (sorry... I mean Yankee imperialists) galaxy", where everything is either black or white, and the mob's leader Chirac (aka Che Guevara) fights Yankee imperialists with his UN buddies, saving the world and getting the Nobel Peace Prize.
#44
Believe me, when a major American city brews up, we may just burn your city to the ground with you and all your friends in it. We tested two of these in Japan
Please, don't make Zhang Fei angry, or he will nuke your country. Look Zhang Fei, I am serious, if you speak like that I will never, ever play with you again.
At the risk of repeating myself, given that Tug is so opposed to what he views as our evil war in Iraq, I feel compelled to re-pose the question: "So, Tug, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for jihadi service in Iraq?" If he really believes the war is so evil, why is he not signing up to fight our boys?
Go on, Zhang Fei, "your boys" are so happy to have you back at home defending them so passionately against evil tug!
#45
Please, don't make Zhang Fei angry, or he will nuke your country. Look Zhang Fei, I am serious, if you speak like that I will never, ever play with you again.
Tug, you're pretty bright for a 2-year-old. I almost mistook you for an adult, but now that I know better, it's nap time. Nighty night...
Go on, Zhang Fei, "your boys" are so happy to have you back at home defending them so passionately against evil tug!
Go on, Tug, "your jihadi pals" are so happy to have you back at home defending them so passionately against Americans! I guess your precious tuckus is too valuable to risk in actual combat.
#46
Damn, I got Trolled. Why, oh why do I always fall for it.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 16:15 Comments ||
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#47
hands up all who knew Murat was still lurking! We knew you were out there...
On another note, the culture of the Arabs is pure honour-shame and top-dog-ism. You cannot impose democracy or human rights in Iraq until you break that culture. And it runs strong and deep. It governs relations between family members, between neighbours, between business partners, it governs all negotiations from marriage to business deals, to whether you get a job.
Iraq requires cultural reformation that needs INTENSIVE policing.
And the Arabs are going to be publicly obsequious to whomever is in power but secretly be plotting their downfall unless this culture is reformed. that is the natural outgrowth of careerism in the context of honour-shame cultures.
#48
Ernest Brown> I'm not convinced, by a long shot. Other than the fact that the article quotes no official source for making this accusation against Germany or France, Turkish politicians should still know that current politicians in Germany or France or anywhere else have only the power to freeze Turkey's entry while *they* are in power, not "for a generation".
But the fact remains that no politician is named as making that accusation, only a New York Sun reporter. Must I depend on trusting his word?
#49
Rafael Yes I agree. It is far better to wait until the mushroom clouds dissipate and half the country is made uninhabitable because of radiation before declaring war We all are safer now, because the U.S. picked up all the WMD that Saddam possesed, right? By the way, why don't you invade N.Korea or Pakistan. They are the ones with nukes. Ahhh. silly me. I answered my own question. only after the UN approves first. In fact, it is just far better to surrender, you know, America being the root of all evil doesn't deserve to exist. And don't forget the oil, it's all about the oil! Thank you Rafael, but I can speak my mind without your help. So, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for military service in Iraq?
Posted by: Tug 2003-9-2 1:55:22 PM
Tug, you insufferably ARROGANT asshat! You admit up front that you are not an American citizen, but have the sheer affrontery to insult this country's intentions and the brave men and women in service now, or who have served before, by asking Rafael if he's ready to wear the uniform! You have NO IDEA OF WHAT YOU SPEAK! So, shut the fuck up already. I've had enough of arrogant little shits like you.
I did not wear the uniform because of various circumstances after I graduated high school. However, I served my country in a different manner and served, with no little distinction I am told by my friends who were in uniform, alongside many a brave man and woman who was in uniform. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO EVEN BESMIRCH THEIR NAMES OR MEMORIES!
You, as you are not an American citizen, have no right to question the loyalty or service of ANY American, in uniform or out - BAR NONE!
#51
I am losing what you guys think the purpose of our military is. It seemed pretty straight forward at the Academy that one of my jobs was to protect trade routes throughout the world. As a plebe, they marched us around the yard and made us memorize the names of the dead guys on monuments like the Tripolitan Monument.
As far as I can tell those guys died to prevent the Barbary Pirates from interrupting free trade routes through the Mediterreanean. During the Iran/Iraq I spent some time escorting Kuaitti oilers through the straights of Hormuz to ensure that the Iranians didn't interrupt trade lanes. The French and the British were there as well.
The mission of the First Gulf War seemed consistent with this same mission. A mission I signed up to participate in and everybody that I know of also was proud to participate in.
Then we get shot in a big way. We neutralized part of that threat in Afghanistan. Everybody was happy. Everybody was proud to serve.
Then we decided to reevaluate some of the existing threats based on our getting whacked pretty hard. Iraq's failure to follow its committments with respect to the ceasefire from the Gulf War I needed addressing. This seemed especially essential when NK decided to show us the what happens when we take a non-serious attitude towards peoples threats. Iraq is neutralized with respect to threatening its neighbors.
Unfortunately, we are left with a difficult hostage situation in North Korea that is a result of our inattention before we got serious.
Honestly, NK and Iraq are not nor have they ever been threats to the continental United States. That is small comfort to the folks in Seoul that have been counting on American protection for 50 years. This is an unfortunate situation. If the number one consideration was to save the maximum number of lives of American troops, the U.S. would decimate all NK positions on the very day that sufficient JDAMs and Tomohawks are available.
You won't see it happen. We aren't cowboys. We're just very serious.
The kids that are out there doing what needs to be done are quite serious about doing this as well.
I was never shot at but was proud to serve the country as soldiers, sailors and airmen are the world over. As citizens we are not supposed to make our militaries safe. Our militaries are committed to ensure safety and freedom for civilians as best they can.
What we do owe those who protect is is to appreciate their sacrifice, do what we can for their families and pay attention as citizens. I can not immagine anyone visiting a site like Rantburg without being seriously commtted to paying attention to what is going on in the world.
We betray our military when we allow the USS Cole to be refueled in Aden instead of DiJibouti because some idiot statesperson wants to reach out to a new friend. That idiot was never held accountable. That can not happen.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 21:51 Comments ||
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Thai police have formally charged four alleged members of the Muslim militant group Jemaah Islamiah with plotting to bomb embassies and tourist spots in the country. State prosecutor Niphon Kwanyoo said the Thai nationals were accused of preparing to launch crimes within Thailand from abroad and seeking perpetrators to carry them out. Prosecutors are also asking Singapore to hand over one of its nationals, a man called Arifin bin Ali, for trial on similar charges. Three of the Thais were arrested in June, the fourth surrendered in July. They are accused of targeting the American, Australian, British, Israeli and Singaporean embassies, as well as sex tourist areas in Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya. Thailand doesnât want to lose itâs tourist industry. They saw what happened to Bali.
The Thai suspects - Maizuru Haiji Abdullah, Mujahid Haiji Abdullah, Waehamadi Wadao and Saman Waekaji — are to enter their pleas on Wednesday. Their lawyer, Somchai Neelajit, told the French news agency AFP that they would plead not guilty. "They have maintained their innocence since they were arrested. The police announced the false claim that they had confessed to the charges," Mr Somchai reportedly said. "Lies, all lies(tm)".
According to the Associated Press news agency, intelligence officials claim the four Thais and the Singaporean were working with top Asian terror suspect Hambali, who was arrested in central Thailand last month.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 9:03:45 AM ||
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A Jakarta court is set to deliver a verdict in the trial of Abu Bakar Bashir, the alleged spiritual leader of the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) terror group. Bashir is accused of trying to overthrow the government through terrorism, and experts have said Tuesdayâs ruling is being viewed as a big test for Indonesiaâs commitment to fighting Muslim militancy. What do you think... will they pass or will they fail?
The 64-year old radical cleric allegedly headed the terror network blamed for a string of bombings in Indonesia and the Philippines, as well as plots against Western targets elsewhere in the region. Among those attacks was a series of church blasts throughout Indonesia on Christmas Eve 2000 that killed 19 people. I heard those Indonesian Christians are a blasphemous bunch... mustnât tolerate them.
Bashir, who was arrested days after last yearâs Bali nightclub blasts which killed more than 200 people, has not been charged in connection with the Bali attacks however. He maintains his innocence and has denied any knowledge of JI — blaming his fate on Singapore, Australia and the CIA. You sure it wasnât Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos?*
But witnesses appearing at trials relating to the Bali bombings have claimed either links to, or inspiration from, Bashir and JI. Whatâs more, prosecutors say Bashir was behind an aborted plot to kill Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri when she was vice president ... Prosecutors say those attacks were designed to destabilize the country of 210 million people, mostly Muslims. Authorities have said the JI wants to overthrow Indonesiaâs secular republican government and set up a pan-Asian Islamic state. With all the wonders that entails...
During the regime of strongman president Suharto, Bashir was jailed for agitating for an Islamic state. He escaped and spent years as a fugitive in Malaysia, returning in 1999 to help establish a network of Islamic schools, becoming well respected among fundamentalist Muslims ... Perhaps as a reflection of the sensitivities involved, state prosecutors have asked the court to sentence Bashir to only 15 years in jail, instead of demanding the maximum life sentence ... Mustnât hurt his feelings. * brownie points for anyone who knows who Iâm refering to (no Googling!)
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 6:32:07 AM ||
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#1
Innocent according to CNBC report.
Don't let the Indo's or Malays get anywhere near any of the guys captured. If the jerk is higher up than a foot soldier he'll either escape - or go scot-free.
#2
viewed as a big test for Indonesiaâs commitment to fighting Muslim militancy.
A definite fail,he was found innocent of Treason, but guilty of 'subversion' and sentenced for 4 years, he intends to appeal.
Also, Malaysia might be led by an anti-semite and a rascist, but he has no tolerance for radical Jihadis. There are nearly a hundred Islamists in prison in Malaysia, some of them for nearly 2 years, and none of them have even gone to court thanks to Malaysia's Internal Security Act.
And during the last elections, the state run tv in Malaysia showed footage of the Taliban executing women in a soccer field, with the not so subtle message that the Islamist opposition party are a bunch of medievel fanatics.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/02/2003 7:21 Comments ||
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#3
PM - Well the subversion / 4 yrs is at least a small consolation. CNBC must've been a little careless as they announced that Bashir had been acquitted - and that was that. Of course, the appeal may work or he may get a shortened sentence. Sigh. Thx for the clarification - I was so pissed I switched over to Eye Candy (Fashion TV), turned off the sound, and started playing MP3's - James Brown is on right now, in fact - and not even surfing around, just refreshing RB between tunes.
As for Mahathir - I have zero confidence in the good Dr Moonbat. I wonder about who, exactly, has been jailed - and why, exactly. I see nothing about him worthy of trust and can't help but think that the ones in jail are just not his jihadis. 8-)
One thing is damned certain, the US should keep Hamball in Gitmo. We could let the Indo and Malay 'investigators' can come to visit him - if they swim from Miami. It's a shame the Thais had to release his wife to Mahathir's bunch.
Bah, never send Furies to do the work of a god.
Send in Shiva, Lord of Destruction!
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 12:04 Comments ||
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#9
Just a little conjecture, but consider: there's an asteroid heading toward the earth. It fractures from natural causes (gravitational stress, whatever), and only a medium-size piece, say a kilometer in diameter, hits the planet, dead-center on Mecca. Do you think the Muslims would get a clue?
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/02/2003 13:38 Comments ||
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#10
You mean, they'd get a bigger stone to circle 'round than the one they have now?? They'd think it was a blessing from Allah.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 14:06 Comments ||
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#11
The monolith of 2012, what a coincidence!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 14:44 Comments ||
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EFL
In early leaks from Losing bin Laden, Richard Miniter, an investigative journalist, claims that Mr Clinton allowed the September 11 attacks to happen by squandering more than a dozen opportunities to capture or kill bin Laden. In two cases the terrorist leaderâs exact location was known, the book says.
[Just after the USS Cole attack,] Mr Clintonâs counter-terrorism chief, Richard Clarke, urged an immediate strike on al-Qaâeda camps and Taliban buildings in Kabul and Kandahar.
Such a strike would destroy terrorist infrastructure and with luck might kill bin Laden, Mr Clarke told senior colleagues. But he was overruled - first by the CIA and FBI, which wanted more investigation of the attack, and then by the Clinton cabinet.
Janet Reno, then the attorney general, said an attack would break international law. Madeleine Albright, the secretary of state, is quoted as saying that "bombing Muslims wouldnât be helpful at this time".
Most controversially, the book quotes William Cohen, then the defence secretary, as saying the Cole attack "was not sufficiently provocative" and retaliation might cause trouble in Pakistan. What can I say but: Damn you. Damn you all (OK, at least Reno and Albright) to hell.
#1
..senior members of the Clinton White House did confirm, in interviews for the book, that they shied away from an attack immediately after the Cole bombing for reasons of diplomacy and military caution.
Or put simply, the U.S. military machine wasn't ready, and Bubba's administration was more concerned with being "liked" by everybody else that sending a clear message to the terror-meisters.
Janet Reno, then the attorney general, said an attack would break international law.
Isn't terrorism against "international law"?
Madeleine Albright, the secretary of state, is quoted as saying that "bombing Muslims wouldnât be helpful at this time".
Wouldn't be helpful to what exactly? To her need to be liked by terrorist organization leaders?
Most controversially, the book quotes William Cohen, then the defence secretary, as saying the Cole attack "was not sufficiently provocative" and retaliation might cause trouble in Pakistan.
Well hell, how about attacking another couple of ships and killing a few more American service personnel? How many deaths would have been "provocative" enough to warrant a response? As far as I'm concerned, the answer is ONE.
#2
This is par for the course for these clowns. It's just like bailing from Mogadishu after the Black Hawk Down episode and blowing up an asparin factory in Sudan after the 1998 embassy bombings.
The most outrageous quote is Cohen's (and not just because he is a "republican"). That's just what the troops want to hear from their civilian leader -- the deaths of 17 and wounding of dozens more (not to mention the near sinking of an $800 million ship) is not worthy of a response.
This is just another major crack in the vaunted Clinton legacy.
Posted by: Tibor ||
09/02/2003 21:21 Comments ||
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#3
I remember that day -- I remember the horror of once again watching the news... seeing the horrors, knowing the intense pain we all suffered with the death of our servicemen....
And knowing, deep down in my heart... as I watched the story unfold...... that nothing would be done... Yes, nothing....
As much as I could, I willed someway, somehow, we would do something.... but I knew.... deep down inside, where it really hurts.... that the words would come..... but the actions wouldn't be there...
Why should they be? The 2000 year of the election was coming. Let those folks deal with this problem.
History will tell -- and it won't be a pretty picture
Posted by: Sara ||
09/02/2003 22:48 Comments ||
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#4
Tibor: a crack in the legacy? This is the legacy.
#5
Whoa--remember the comments of the lunatic right when Clinton sent some cruise missiles--he was wagging the dog to distract from Monica! Ya can't have it both ways. But of course ya believe the liar in chief and the lobotomized Condi Rice's view
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 23:07 Comments ||
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#6
But of course ya believe the liar in chief and the lobotomized Condi Rice's view
What the current administration came up with was the correct response, instead of Bill "Perjury" Clinton's half-assed cruise missile campaign. Yeah, nothing like a little military action to distract people from that teensy little Monica problem....
Leaders of the US Muslim community hope to hurt President George W Bush at the polls next year by attacking his administration's treatment of Arab and Muslim Americans. The heads of four leading US Muslim groups said last weekend that as many as one million of their followers may use next year's presidential elections as a chance to register their dissatisfaction with the Bush administration.
Register and be damned!
âMuslims are eager to vote in defence of their liberties and in defence of their future,â Nihad Awad, executive director of the council on American-Islamic relations said at the group's annual convention in Chicago. âWe feel that civil liberties have deteriorated in this country,â he added. Many American Muslims feel victimised by policies that allow for the racial profiling of Arab and Muslim men. Under the wide ranging powers of the Patriot Act of 2001, many Arab and Muslim have been detained and deported without the right to legal representation.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 16:02 ||
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#1
Wow, I'm going to have to write my congressman about that....the day after hell freezes over.
#3
CAIR should be labeled for what it is, a terrorist organization or at least one that supports it. Nihad Awad would have you be believe that there is no evidence linking Muslims with terrorism. These people need a better whine, PR, and better leadership. They only people who have been arrested and face deportation or prison are those that have ADMITTED that they belong to a terror organization. Mr. Awad should think about that before he starts ranting about his sacred civil rights.
#4
Every nationalized citizen of the United States has sworn to "bear true faith and allegience to" the US Constitution. Part of that Constitution is the guarantee of religious liberties. Islam has a poor record of guaranteeing any freedoms, and especially religious freedom. I'm beginning to believe there are "irreconcilable differences" between Islam and US citizenship. Unless the Muslims in this country stand up and prove they support our freedoms, we may have to get a "divorce".
I haven't found incontrovertible proof yet, but the Democratic party may also fit this category. I've got my eyes on them, especially the clowns currently running for President of the United States.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/02/2003 16:48 Comments ||
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#5
Oddly, the laws he's whining about say nothing about Arabs or Muslims.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/02/2003 16:50 Comments ||
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#6
I'd pay money to see any one of them press that button for Joe Lieberman.
Posted by: Matt ||
09/02/2003 16:51 Comments ||
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#7
Just a lot of whining barbarians who should be sent back to where they came from.
#14
Anon1 - in the smaller elections, with apathetic issues on the ballot, fringes get their chance, but their biggest play is as the spoiler in close elections - there they can push the election one way or another - see Nader or Perot's examples
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 19:27 Comments ||
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#15
Muslim organizations have not helped their cause in this country since 9-11. Their attitude is automatically that the civil liberties are being taken away - bullshit. Stand up and be part of this country or shutup and get out. The govt. must protect this country and if that means being profiled then so be it. If they were true americans they would gladly help the govt. and prove their loyalty.
Sure hope that lieberman is the democrat contender - then who will they vote for. Then what - don't like bush and they hate israel--
#16
The Muslim minority is heavily concentrated in area like Ann Arbor, Michigan. I think that's why several Congressmen - notably Conyers - go out of their way to kowtow to CAIR. In the right circumstances, the Muslim minority could be an important block vote like the Cubans are in Florida.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 20:33 Comments ||
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#17
I'm so sick of listening to these assholes pissing and moaning about their victimhood. Planes leave damn near every airport in the country headed for whatever hellhole you or your ancestors came over here from. Get on one. And we'd appreciate it if you didn't crash into any of our buildings while you're heading home.
#18
I can just see the support rally for the eventual Democratic Presidential Candidate, Banners reading Jews, Gays/Lesbians and Muslims for ........
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire ||
09/02/2003 21:58 Comments ||
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#19
Hey Repooplican asshats--the Muslims supported GWB--didn't want no Joooooooo like Lieberman anywhere near the White House--so now--their support makes the Democrats a subsidiary of Hamas?! LOL You people are too ridiculous for words--I guess Ailes did give you your talking points tho'
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 23:13 Comments ||
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Colonel Muammar Qaddafi has confirmed that in the 35th year of the Historic International Revolution of the Great al Fateh we have to declare that power is in the hands of the people through peoples congresses and committees. The Leader said in his speech marking the celebrations of the 34th anniversary of the Great al Fateh Revolution: "from my position as the Leader of the Revolution which took place on such a day 34 years ago and out of Revolutionary legitimacy our national duty obliges us to make you accountable for what you have done since you assumed power in 1977."
"I mean, come now! In 35 years you must have done something?"
Colonel Muammar al Qathafi added: "part of our revolutionary responsibility is to incite the masses to assume power and direct peoples democracy and to abandon any deputisation for the masses and the people."
"So you can just drop that Vanguard of the Proletariat™ crap..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 15:55 ||
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The Gettysburg Address this wasn't.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 20:10 Comments ||
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#2
Bring back Vittorio Emmanuele--when they had trains running on time, water, sewage systems, etc
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 22:08 Comments ||
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The 34th anniversary of the Libyan revolution has been a cause of celebration for many Sudanese families as Libya pardoned and repatriated 263 prisoners.
"Get the hell out of our Jamahiriya and don't come back."
Sudanese police said in a statement that a special Libyan plane brought the former prisoners to Khartoum late on Sunday. It did not specify what crimes they had been convicted of. More prisoners are to be released and repatriated police said, but no numbers were provided. Libya is a hub for Sub-Saharan Africans who use the north African country as an exit route to enter Europe across the Mediterranean.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 15:51 ||
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Think China had a little talk with Kimmie? Possibly a "hiccup" in oil pipeline delivery?
North Korea yesterday retreated from a threat to withdraw from dialogue about its nuclear weapons programme, saying it remained committed to the diplomatic process.
The comments revived hopes that a second six-party conference will follow last weekâs talks in Beijing between the US, the Koreas, China, Japan and Russia.
On Saturday, Pyongyang had declared the talks a failure, saying that it was not interested in more. But the communist stateâs official mouthpiece struck a more positive tone yesterday - underlining the unpredictability of North Koreaâs behaviour and the difficulty of interpreting its rhetoric.
"There is no change in our firm will to resolve the nuclear dispute between [North Korea] and the US, peacefully through dialogue," Pyongyangâs state news agency said. "Apparently our bluff did not cause the expected panic"
Diplomats have portrayed the first round of six-way talks as a mixed success, relieved that they did not break down but frustrated by the failure of North Korea and the US to narrow their differences.
North Korea sought a long list of concessions from the US in exchange for scrapping its nuclear programme. But Washington - which believes North Korea possesses one or two nuclear bombs, with more under development - said it would not grant rewards until Pyongyang disarms.
However without help from abroad, North Koreaâs economic situation is unsustainable. Yesterday human rights activists seeking to publicise the plight of the 22m poverty-stricken people under Kim Jong-ilâs rule appealed for four North Korean refugees, who arrived in Bangkok this week, to be given asylum in the US.
The four - all wearing dark glasses to conceal their identities during a Bangkok press conference - said they had fled the North three to five years ago, and had since lived underground in China. disguised like malnourished asian "Blues Brothers"
But they recently made the arduous trip across China to Thailand - a journey that takes at least three weeks - searching for what one refugee described as "a land of freedom of faith".
Norbert Vollersten, a German doctor, wants to precipitate the collapse of the North Korean regime by triggering a mass exodus of refugees. He urged the US embassy "to send a car to pick them up to bring them, somehow to safe asylum in the United States".
In the last two years, a stream of North Koreans has made the trip to Thailand, where the South Korean embassy has received them and quietly removed them to Seoul.
Dr Vollersten admitted the refugeesâ public appearance could "jeopardise the silent approach" to the plight of North Koreans who make it to Thailand. It will upset Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai prime minister, who has shown little tolerance for foreign dissidents expressing their political views on Thai soil.
But Dr Vollersten says North Koreaâs citizens must have a safe haven so they can flee their suffering. How about a liberated Pyongyang?
Yoon Young-kwan, South Koreaâs foreign minister, was due in Washington yesterday, the first visit of what is expected to be a flurry of shuttle-diplomacy to assess the outcome of the Beijing talks and prepare for a second round.
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 2:33:38 PM ||
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But the communist stateâs official mouthpiece struck a more positive tone yesterday - underlining the unpredictability of North Koreaâs behaviour and the difficulty of interpreting its rhetoric.
I would say that North Korea's behaviour and its rhetoric are quite easy and straightforward to interpret these days. No problem at all.
They are on the ropes and the only thing keeping their Living Dead⢠collective governmental asses alive is China. What say thee, China? Whither goest thou from here?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 14:49 Comments ||
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#2
He urged the US embassy "to send a car to pick them up to bring them, somehow to safe asylum in the United States".
I hope he realizes there's no land route between Korea and the US.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/02/2003 15:14 Comments ||
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#3
"Never mind," said KCNA spokesperson Emily Litella.
#5
I don't think anyone knows whether there's a unified Chinese-North Korea policy ... there's the hardliners who support it no matter what, those who want to use North Korea against the US, those who're still nationalist (kinda hardline) but worry about North Korea turning on China/it screwing over China by involving the US, and those who just don't like it ...
Anyone figure out which school of thought Jiang Zemin and his puppet Hu Jintao belong to?
Posted by: Lu Baihu ||
09/02/2003 17:58 Comments ||
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#6
Sobody give the good doctor a blanket party and make him understand that his personnal effort to destabilize a psychotic new member of the nuclear club is not appreciated. A shotgun enema may be necessary.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 21:58 Comments ||
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The United States and Israel had the most to gain from the killing of a top Shia cleric in Iraq last week, said Hezbollah Secretary General Sayyid Hasan Nasrullah.
I confess! I dunnit! It was me! I couldn't stand the thought of a stable Iraq, so I boomed him! I dunnit an' I'm glad...
Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim was killed in a car bomb last Friday in Najaf. At least 80 other people also died in the blast.
Last count I heard was 107, but it was Arabs doing the counting. Could be more, could be less. Could actually be nothing but a rumor...
Speaking to about 3,000 Shias who gathered to mourn al-Hakim in the Beirutâs southern suburbs, Nasrullah said: âThe Americans do not want a state in Iraq, they want a splintered Iraq and the Israelis want to crush Iraq. For more than one reason it is in Israel's interests and part of its plan to kill the leaders that present or even might present a danger to Israel." But the cleric stopped short of blaming either the US or Israel for al-Hakimâs killing.
Oh, go ahead and accuse us. You've already made one droolingly stoopid statement...
Nasrullah, whose Iranian-backed group helped drive Israel out of southern Lebanon in 2000 after a 22-year occupation, said attacks such as al-Hakim's killing or Israeli assassinations of Palestinian leaders would strengthen their resolve. "In Palestine today, Israel has taken the decision to cross out the leaders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the leaders of the uprising in Palestine," Nasrullah said. "But this (Arab) nation, in its cultural, emotional and mental make-up... when it is threatened with death is provoked and when it is killed it awakens and resurges," he said.
Before it begins to rot...
Nasrullah said such an awakening was taking place as a result of the killing of al-Hakim. "Oh Americans and Zionists, no matter how much of our leaders' blood you spill you cannot impose on us your tyranny or your projects," he said.
But you stopped short of accusing us of spilling it, dumbass. Maybe you should have a talk with some Sunnis. Maybe you could compare turbans or something...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 14:17 ||
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"Last count I heard was 107, but it was Arabs doing the counting. Could be more, could be less"
is this the guy with 19 fingers doing the counting?
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 15:18 Comments ||
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#2
"Oh Americans and Zionists, no matter how much of our leaders' blood you spill you cannot impose on us your tyranny or your projects," he said.
It's not tyranny that we wasnt to impose on the likes of Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad.
#3
Definitely don't want stability. All that quiet is bad for business. Nothing gets the capaitalist economy going like incoming fire.
They must have driven this Iman to a special maddrass in a shorter bus than the other kids. Bet they took lots of field trips.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 22:16 Comments ||
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#4
"In Palestine today, Israel has taken the decision to cross out the leaders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the leaders of the uprising in Palestine," Nasrullah said.
Good to see Nasrullah doesn't seem to think he's on their list. Wonder if he likes surprises?
A suspected terrorist charged with killing a U.S. diplomat had computer files on making explosives and poison, a Jordanian military court heard Tuesday. Salem bin Suweid, 40, a Libyan national, has pleaded innocent to shooting Laurence Foley, an administrator for the U.S. Agency for International Development, in Amman on Oct. 28 last year, and also to conspiring to carry out terror attacks with others. Ten other defendants are on trial with bin Suweid, six of them still at large. They are all charged with conspiring to commit acts of terror and illegal possession of automatic weapons. All 11 suspects — Jordanian, Libyan, Syrian and Palestinian — are facing the death sentence if convicted.
And Jordan often seems to convict them...
The government has blamed Foley's assassination on al-Qaeda. The indictment does not mention al-Qaeda, but it says at least half of the accused had links with Jordanian militant Ahmed al-Khalayleh, thought to be a senior figure in al-Qaeda.
Intelligence officer Lt. Muthana al-Qatan testified that when he examined a computer found at Suweid's home in Russeifa, about 15 miles northeast of the Jordanian capital Amman, he found files on the manufacture of explosives and poison as well as "tactics on guerrilla warfare and methods of resisting law enforcement officers." Questioned by defense lawyers, al-Qatan said the files could have been downloaded from the Internet.
Meaning they weren't kept on the same hard drive as the titty pictures. Wouldn't have been devout, y'know...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 14:04 ||
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Wait a minute. He's Lybian. MuMu said he wanted to be friends now.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 22:00 Comments ||
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Chechen rebels have snubbed an amnesty offer to lay down their arms.
"Lay down our arms? Pshaw! Without our guns to wave around, we're nothin'! Nothin', I tell yez!"
The move was the brainchild of Russian politicians who believed the amnesty, timed a month before the crucial elections in Chechnya, might erase anti-Russian sentiment in the region. However, few had handed over the weapons when the Monday deadline arrived. The end of the amnesty coincided with the handover of control over public order from the FSB security to the Interior Ministry. "September 1 marked the deadline for the guerrillas to give up weapons voluntarily," Deputy Prosecutor General, Sergei Fridinsky, told Interfax news agency.
So are you going to kill the ones who still have them now?
The State Duma lower house approved the amnesty after an April referendum in Chechnya — boycotted by the rebels and criticised by the usual suspects human rights groups — showed a big majority voting to stay within Russia. The poll, in which Chechens complained of being forced to vote through threats and intimidation, paved the way for Russia to organise 5 October election of a regional president. The upcoming election is a key step in President Vladimir Putin's Chechnya peace plan which he hopes will put an end to the region's three years of de-facto independence. Chechnya's Moscow-appointed administrator and a candidate in the October poll, Akhmad Kadyrov, has called for an extension of the amnesty.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
09/02/2003 12:52 ||
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The Russians have been hammering on Chechnya for only 300 years or so. Before them were others hundreds of years before the Russians. In WW2, Stalin evacuated the whole population to Siberia. The Chechens are tribal and hate the Russians and their heavy handed traditions. The Russians have defined the word "Quagmire" by their ops in Chechnya.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 14:03 Comments ||
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#2
The Chechens are tribal and hate the Russians and their heavy handed traditions
They are also fond of chopping heads off. Russian brutality was a response to the way Chechens deal with Russian POWs. But of course nobody talks about Chechen barbarism, it's always the big bad heartless Russians.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 14:13 Comments ||
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#3
Rafael---my point in the post was that the Chechens have been living in this brutal existence for centuries. So, like the Russians, brutality has been acquired over a long time. Sorry I was not so clear.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 15:13 Comments ||
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#4
What is in Chechnya that the Russians want? If I were auditioning cultures for possible citizenship, I think I would have gonged the Chechnyans. The Czars could have bummed the plans for Hadrians wall off the Pope for some cash.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 20:18 Comments ||
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#5
What is in Chechnya that the Russians want?
Oil, natural gas (seriously). But more importantly, if Chechnya went their independant way, that would give all the other semi-autonomous or autonomous regions ideas of their own for independence. Remember the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics)? It was also known as the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. There were some 12+ such republics in the Soviet Union (I don't know the actual number without checking an old atlas) who would probably like to cut the Moscovite umbilical cord.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 20:40 Comments ||
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#6
Kinda like those pesky folks at Fort Sumpter
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 22:12 Comments ||
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Yasser Arafat must "disappear from the stage of history," Israelâs defense minister said Tuesday, adding that the Palestinian leaderâs fate â most likely expulsion â may be decided before the end of the year.
Ummm... How long before the end of the year?
Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz issued the warning as Arafat and his Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas remained locked in a bitter power struggle. Abbas, backed by the United States and Israel, is increasingly unpopular at home and could be ousted, possibly in a parliament vote next week.
Thereby proving that Paleos never miss an opportunity to miss and opportunity...
In newspaper ads Tuesday, nearly 200 Palestinian legislators, academics and writers appealed to both men to resolve their differences, saying the deadlock was hurting Palestinian interests. "We call on you to stop all actions that may open the door to foreign interference," the ad read. Leaders of the ruling Fatah movement met Tuesday, but failed to find a compromise. Mediators were to keep shuttling between the two leaders who are no longer on speaking terms. Officials close to Abbas, meanwhile, denied reports that he has threatened to resign and leave the Palestinian areas.
Prob'ly be better for his health if he did, though...
Palestinian security chief Mohammed Dahlan, who is close to Abbas, suggested the tensions defied a permanent solution. He told the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera that there might be a temporary compromise, "until the next crisis, in a week, a month, three months, who knows?"
That's what usually happens. The next crisis will also be set off by Yasser wanting to have his way...
In his radio interview, Mofaz also said Arafat was an obstacle to peace. "Because this is the situation and because Arafat never wanted to reach an agreement with us, ... I think that he has to disappear from the stage of history, and not be included in the ranks of the Palestinian leadership," Mofaz said. Mofaz said he favors expelling Arafat, but that the timing has to be right. "I believe that Israel made a historic mistake by not exiling him two years ago," he said.
I believe Israel made an historic mistake by not killing him 30 years ago...
"With regard to the future, I think we will be compelled to deal with this issue within a relatively short period of time, very possibly even this year," Mofaz said. It was not clear whether he referred to the Western calendar or the Jewish year, which ends on Sept. 26. Itâs up to you guys: Mubarak, Abdullah (Jordan), Abdullah (SArabia) - can we send him to you?
How about a piece to each?
Mofaz said the timing would have to be chosen carefully so as not to undermine Abbas, who Israel believes is serious about reaching a peace deal. Palestinian Cabinet Minister Ghassan Khatib said Mofazâs threat only raised tensions, "but is consistent with the spirit of escalation of the Israeli leadership."
"I mean, those guys fly off the handle like this for no reason... We're so-o-o-o put upon!"
Israelâs Cabinet has repeatedly considered expelling Arafat, but Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has blocked such a move, in part because of opposition by the United States and because his security advisers have cautioned against it.
Posted by: mhw ||
09/02/2003 10:58:50 AM ||
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Expelling Arafat means that he'd still be around to stir up trouble by his supporters/proxies. To solve the problem permanently, he needs to be turned into a corpse.
#3
there won't be any improvement in Paleo actions or status until he's dead, but after that, watch the maneuvering. Yasser's kept all the rivals for power down and there's nobody with real strength/credibility to assume power after him. Should be a bloodbath, and would be nice if the wall was done...
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 11:20 Comments ||
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Sorry, our bad, didn't mean to kill Arafat, that hellfire was intended for a Hamas militant. Oh, they're all in Gaza, rats, must have the map upside down. Won't happen again.
#5
Have his extradition plane accidentally go into the drink - dang mechanical failures....
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
09/02/2003 12:03 Comments ||
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If he is expelled to Tora Bora or the Beka Valley, he would become a legit target.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 12:44 Comments ||
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#7
Looks like the PA is being given three choices:
- go to war with Hamas & Islamic Jihad
- go to war with Israel
- go to war with a NATO force in Gaza
#10
If Arafat choked to death during dinner the Arab street would blame Mossad. If they are going to be blamed anyway why worry about whacking him.
Personally I think Sharon should go ape on the Palestinians (kill Arafat, drive the Pals into Jordan, root out the terrorists). Do what must be done to secure the peace for Israel, then resign. Depending upon world reaction Sharon can then go before a military court or whatever for any crimes committed to get the stain off of Israel. Take a bullet for the nation but truly solve the freaking problem.
#11
Expelling him won't be easy - before the UN decided to give him the West Bank, he'd been expelled from at least three countries (including Libya!) as a trouble-maker. Maybe France would still take him.
Posted by: John Anderson ||
09/02/2003 19:45 Comments ||
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#12
The Arafish should be left in his tank. Seal off the compound, cut the power, cut the water, jam the cell phones. Wait.
EFL:
Argentine ex-dictator General Reynaldo Bignone has admitted that 8,000 people were kidnapped and killed during the 1976-83 military regime, and said the church leadership had given its approval to torture practices. In an interview published today in Pagina 12, Bignone said French instructors had taught Argentinaâs military how to kidnap and torture suspected opponents of the regime, and how to secretly execute them. Ah, those wacky French.
The interview was secretly filmed by French journalist Marie-Monique Robin, who was working on a documentary.
The regimeâs brutal repression of opponents was modelled directly on the Battle of Algiers, he said. French instructors gave conferences and consultations on how to carry out the strategy. "It was a copy (of the battle): intelligence, gridding of territory divided into zones. The difference was that Algeria was a colony and ours was in our own country," he said. So I guess itâs OK to torture and kill if you are trying to keep a French colony supressed.
Bignone is under arrest on charges of stealing babies from their parents during the bloody era. Bignone also said of the 8,000 who were kidnapped, then killed, some 1,500 had died during the government of Maria Estela Martinez de Peron, who was ousted by military coup in 1976. Third Army Division former commander Ramon Genaro Diaz Bessone implicitly acknowledged that the military dictatorship kidnapped 7,000 people, according to the newspaper, quoting a text obtained by the documentary. Not one of the brightest points in history.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 10:56:39 AM ||
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Argentine ex-dictator General Reynaldo Bignone has admitted that 8,000 people were kidnapped and killed during the 1976-83 military regime
Only 8,000? Under the alternative, a communist regime, the body count would have been in the hundreds of thousands, not the mention the millions conscripted to performed forced labor in gulags.
#3
Right Wing dictators usually are pikers. After all Turjillo(sp) in Cuba let Castro out of prison after what, 2 years when he was caught following an attack on a police station that killed several cops or solidiers. Think how much trouble one pistol round could of saved
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire ||
09/02/2003 14:15 Comments ||
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#4
Batista ran Cuba before Castro. Trujillo ran the Dominican Republic. FYI
#6
Trujillo in the Dominican Republic, Omar Torrejos in Panama. Two different families, but probably related somewhere! I was in Panama when Torrejos took over, BTW. He didn't like the people's choice for president. He did some good, some bad, but was never the bas**** Noriega was.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/02/2003 23:58 Comments ||
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Syria called yesterday for reopening the line to transport oil from Iraq at a capacity of 200,000 barrels daily that was closed by the American forces in April. In a press statement, Rifaee said "it is logical and useful for Iraq to use this utility especially as it is in need of revenues." He added "that Syria will also benefit but Iraq will benefit more.. this is in the interest of everyone. Coalition forces also have interest in Iraqâs stability and an interest in getting revenues it need, not only for reconstruction but for daily expenses." The Syrian minister said "for our part, Syria is ready and we welcome that, and now the other party has to do the same thing." He continued that Syria welcomes any side authorized to reopen the line and is ready to make an immediate dialogue with it. He said "you have to think of security. When the oil pipeline becomes operational, you can make sure of preserving security of the Syrian side.. This is an important element that should be thought of." Gee, I donât know, weâre pretty busy, how about we get back to you? Iâll pencil you in for a meeting in 2023.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/02/2003 9:38:23 AM ||
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#1
first shipments from Iraq to Syria should be dead jihadis...see if you can make oil from that, a**hole
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 9:57 Comments ||
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#2
"Wait till we get the Iraq-Haifa pipeline built, and then you can buy it from the Israelis."
#3
"...you have to think of security. When the oil pipeline becomes operational, you can make sure of preserving security of the Syrian side.. This is an important element that should be thought of."
Explains why the Syria-Iraq border is so porous - they've got all their security assets guarding the pipeline...
#4
This might be Syria's way of saying "start pumping to us again and the other pipes won't get blowed up again".
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/02/2003 12:39 Comments ||
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#5
Now might be a good time for a series of "hot pursuits" resulting in property damage on the Syrian side. Start with their precious oil pipeline. Border crossing facilities through which we're fairly sure there's a flow of jihadis would be a good start, too. No bodies, mind you - we're not savages - but it definitely sounds like the Syrians are starting to forget who's holding the hammer round these parts.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
09/02/2003 14:05 Comments ||
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#6
Maybe we can start up an Oil for WMDs or an Oil for Hizbollah Gunnies program. Line 'em up on the border and we will agree on a price equivalent. This would be a win-win.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 16:35 Comments ||
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#7
I think the Syrian pipeline SHOULD be opened.
The day after they elect a Jewish president.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/02/2003 17:22 Comments ||
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same story from yesterday, but with Ottawaâs reaction:
On Monday, Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham said the withdrawal of charges against two Iranians in the death of a Canadian journalist may not be as bad as it looks. There have been suggestions the two officials were being made scapegoats. Graham says if the charges have been withdrawn, it could lead to charges against those who were directly responsible for Kazemiâs death. Ok Bill, start holding your breath now. This is basically Ottawaâs way of saying "weâve given up".
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 4:25:35 AM ||
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#1
Hold the next maple syrup shipment in customs until this is resolved satisfactorily.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 7:46 Comments ||
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#2
Bill Graham should just come out and say: "Hey, we're pussies and we don't defend our citizens, have at 'em"
disgusting
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 9:32 Comments ||
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#3
SH, This is strictly a Canadian-Iranian issue: We Merkins don't have a dog in this fight. Like Frank G said, let the Canucks show that they're pussies.
Not that we're blameless in this regard: A more vigorous response to the Beiruit Bombing of our Marines there would have solved a whole passle of problems. We've fallen a long ways from the days of TR, who sent in the Marines to rescue a woman and her children.
#4
Ptah - I've long thought Reagan should've smoked the entire Bekaa Valley for those Marines' deaths. You can't send battalions in for every kidnapped or killed citizen, but when a NKorea holds a Pueblo, Iranians hold the hostages, or Iran cracks a Canadians' skull in prison, you've gotta make a stand. If you don't defend your nationals when it counts, you're nothing
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 10:24 Comments ||
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Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 11:27 Comments ||
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#7
Frank,
Why would Americans be attending a trade show in Beriut? Until Beka is cleaned up, I would think that Lebanon is a market/territory that I would leave to other non-American businesses.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 11:31 Comments ||
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#8
Why would Americans be attending a trade show in Beriut?
ya lost me on that one....? I wouldn't deal with Lebanon until Syria's ejected, the Paleos are cleaned out of the Hellhole, and their old system of government is restored, returning stability. It used to be a beautiful country, and as usual, Arafat's touch destroyed it
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 11:48 Comments ||
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#9
Canadien government spokeswoman Faith Lovejoy-Holmes, reading from a prepared statemant, was quoted today saying, "We can now, couragesly, forthrightly and thouroughly, put this matter in context. But we are steadfast in our opinions and will never back down on our principles or our rejection of any unilateral, destabilizing, uncivility".
U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich hit the ground running in Portland on Friday, stepping off the Downeaster train from New Hampshire ready to rally Mainers onto his budding Democratic presidential campaign. EFL and relevance
Kucinich said the nation was developing a system of "health poverty," where rising health care costs drive the poor and unemployed away from receiving treatment they need. He said he supports a single-payer universal health care system that would provide coverage for various procedures, such as alternative medicines, vision care and long-term health. Kucinich said the money Americans spend on health care annually is already enough to subsidize a universal health care system. Depends. Whoâs doing the paying again, the poor or the rich? It may be quite the case that under a assets-based income tax the rich pay far more than the poor (when they have to pay at all), and that a flat tax would in fact cost the liberals the massive sums of cash they need to simultaneously waste and pretend they havenât, when it doesnât force the poor to pay a sum they canât just because everyone else pays the same ... oh wait, it does both. Lookit the Meiji Restoration.
On Iraq, Kucinich said the United States needs to "get our men and women who are targets out of Iraq." He said the United States should turn the reins of rebuilding the country over to the United Nations for allocating oil and construction contracts. Just you wait ... them Islamosâll be targets once again ... one of these days ... *snark!*
In any case, others here with abilities tenfold of mine have savaged the UN far beyond my meager abilties — theyâre the ones to go to if youâre a card-carrying UN masochist in need of your daily dose of humiliation and verbal abuse :P
He went on to blame the Bush administration for using the Sept. 11 attacks as a false motivation for war with Iraq. He said a "pall of fear has been dropping over this country by an administration that exploited the 9/11 attacks." Fear? What fear? Do you see fear here? Do you see liberals being hounded out of their homes and beaten on the streets, their flags burned and their SUVs torched, violence publically threatened and their deaths hoped for? Sounds more like something theyâd do ...
[Fred] Bloom said the candidateâs conviction and passion is something that is rarely seen in current politics and something that could draw disaffected voters to his campaign. He said Kucinichâs ideology sets him apart and makes him the best candidate to defeat President Bush. Actually, this makes him the least likely. The one most likely will be the one who simultaneously presents himself as partisan and centrist. To nominate Kucinch for 2004 would only guarantee the Democratsâ loss.
By the way, cookies for anyone who spots the non-Iraq foreign policy reference!
Posted by: Lu Baihu ||
09/02/2003 4:11:19 AM ||
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#1
First of all Liberals don't usually drive SUV's!
(But I did just recently shed my Volvo LOL) I will never forget the Grand Fury ads on NY buses that had a picture of a baby--saying "Welcome to the US--the only industrialised country without a National Health Care Plan except for South Africa! And before you all pile on ask the steel workers from LTV how they ended up with no healthcare after the faux Chapter 11 filing! Welcome to the Iraq/American reality
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 4:50 Comments ||
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#2
PS I HAVE contributed via PayPal now let's all send Fred $$ for this fascinating forum!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 4:57 Comments ||
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#3
PS When I lived in Cleveland I liked DK because he held off the assault from Ohio Edison to keep the municipal utility running--which saved everyone big bucks because we weren't left to the tender mercies of the private sector
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 5:27 Comments ||
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#4
Every liberal I know drives an SUV (and has a compelling justification for doing so) but wants others to stop.
I grew up in Akron when Dennis K made Cleveland the laughing stock of the entire country. If he is elected President, we will no longer be hated all around the world. Europeans will be sending us invitations to the shildren's birthday parties for free entertainment.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 7:44 Comments ||
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#5
i dont drive an SUV, but then im a hawkish, pro-Leiberman/Edwards/Gephardt(except of the protectionism) liberal
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 10:55 Comments ||
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#7
In California if you are sick there are county hospitals that will take you, even if you cannot pay. How would universal health care be different? This just seems like something better decided on a county or state level to me.
#8
Kucinich's mouth will guarantee he won't get the nomination. He's approaching the battle like an ill-trained recruit - firing from the hip on full automatic, while the enemy is still out of range. He'll be out of ammo before the primary.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/02/2003 12:45 Comments ||
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#9
Universal Health Care would involve longer lines to see doctors that acted like disinterested postal employees.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 12:55 Comments ||
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#10
Super Hose, I'm not a supporter of Universal Health Care but would like to know what the followers of such believe the benefits will really be? I see it as a state issue myself.
If Universal Health Care in California was so wonderful and lack of Universal Health Care in Nevada so terrible I would expect to see a flow of people from Nevada to California but so far everyones going in the other direction, which leads me to believe jobs trump health care and this is another red hering. Sadly enough this fictitious issue is almost all the Dems have.
#11
Universal Healthcare, what a joke. They've got it in Canada, and if they really have a problem they come across the border! Three to six week wait for an MRI anyone? What a crock. Mediocrity for all! Is that your rally cry? I work hard and have $10 co-pay for Dr's visits and prescriptions. You can take your Universal Healthcare and shove it.
#12
You know guy's there are millions of Americans out there most with children who work damned hard for a living and don't have anyhealth care coverage.Why?
Becuase thier employer's says the company can't afford it.These same people who don't have employer sposored health care can't get Fed/State/Cnty heatlh care.Why?
Because they make to much money.
When was the last time one of you guys priced private medical insurance?
Last time I checked Med Insurance for my wife(ex-,12 years now)was between$400.00-4600.00 dollares a month.Don't know about you,but I do not know many people who can afford that,especially with kids.
#14
He's approaching the battle like an ill-trained recruit - firing from the hip on full automatic, while the enemy is still out of range.
On a totally guns-related note, a site actually said that the 5.56mm round used in M16s (see "In the Army Now" by Andy Dick) actually gained stopping power at long range - in the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, though :P
As for the Meiji Restoration reference, the first modern Japanese government (1868) kicked things off by instituting a flat tax, which promptly impoverished and bankrupted thousands if not millions of peasants who in fact had been spared by the adjusted-rate income tax that the preceding Tokugawa Shogunate, taxing the richest while sparing the poor. Though the daimyo were given land bonds in return for their lands, the case is simply that under the shogunate and our current system, the rich pay more than the poor and only keep up the "illusion" of inequality due to their higher-to-begin-with assets.
Under a tax system like this, I don't see how a sensible liberal can complain.
Posted by: Lu Baihu ||
09/02/2003 18:25 Comments ||
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#15
Yank,
I have not had direct experience with Universal Health Care, but I did have a health care experience that was simular in the late 80's. I was a young man in the Navy stationed in an area that had way to many naval personnel and their dependents. For health care dependents could receive health care on the base but only after all active duty military and military retired were treated first.
To meet the needs of the dependents the navy began to contract out health care. For example, my first child was born in the Portsmouth Naval Hospital but several years later my daughter was born in Virginia Beach General.
The worst part of this transition was when they contracted out all the immediate care work to one location. I never went in that place without having at least a three hour wait. Usually after continuous exposure to 60 or so sick kids, my kids came home with more symptoms than they had when we entered the clinic. The contract must have either included all the money up front or they must have been paid by the service was terrible. It was one of those places where the nurse issued you a helping of pseudophed and husstled you out the door everthough you were there for a broken collar bone.
The Navy solved the problems with the system because everyone's families including those of Admirals were negatively effected by the poor quailty.
As I've read about Universal Health Care Systems in other countries, they have all sounded simular to my experience in Virginia Beach with several exceptions. One important exception: rich/important people opt out of the system care in England, Canada and Europe. They pay out of pocket and end up seeing the best doctors. The admirals didn't make enough money to pass up free medical care, so there was some imputous for eliminaitng the poor service.
As a resident of Nevada, you should be better off than California. For several reasons:
1. Without at least a co-pay there is absolutely no systematic pressure to prevent every Joe Blow from going to the doctor for every case of the sniffles.
2. Under regular health care people with no money would be serviced in free clinics or places like the Shriners hospitals. A universal health care system should act as a giant magnet which attracts people with no resources which floods the system.
3. A flooded system always ends up in waiting, bureacracy, rationing of services and price controls.
4. In a case where there is a socialized system there will arise a seperate system of high end producers to service those who can pay out of pocket.
5. Good doctors that cannot gain the high end niche will flee to the nearest market where they can run their business without the price controls and excess paperwork that usually accompany a socialize dsystem. For example, after getting out of the service I lived and worked in a small town in Kentucky. All the local doctors were Canadien.
If the market doesn't change in Nevada, I would expect that you would receive excellent care from the quality doctors that evacuate California.
Other things to think about:
1. I receive high quality medical coverage from my employer who would be perfectly happy to have me receive low quality medical coverage from the government (federal, state or local.)
2. Medical insurance coverage for routine visits and small issues is highly ineffient and expensive overall. Only a dummy would by car insurance that covered oil changes.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/02/2003 19:04 Comments ||
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#16
I hate paying car insurance.
Please help me. I don't think any working American should go without food, shelter, health care, car insurance, fair gas prices, high quality bongs, cheap interest, high returns and low fat ribs. Make it happen people.
No, but I should - Tom Ridge and Tommy Thompson should both be on the unemployment line.
Posted by: John Anderson ||
09/02/2003 19:33 Comments ||
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#18
And Jobs. Good paying low work, low stress high esteem jobs damnit. Last week. Ones that folks like us can do better than them (name your immigrant) can. Except for (name you immigrant friend) he's okay and has excellent connections.
#20
Having lived with universal medicare or socialized medicine in Canada, I would respectfully submit that medical care is generally pretty good. But there are several problems. The biggest problem is the delusion that everyone has that it is "free". Right. Pay for insurance or pay in tax. Take your pick. Over time, the cost of health care takes up a bigger chunk of government budgets. One of the problems with newer technology such as MRI is the cost of the equipment vs the size of the population is such that it makes no sense to provide the technololgy in all areas. But people think their local hospital should have every bell and whistle even though local doctors would not see sufficent cases to be properly competent. Ontario just closed two neonatal brain surgery facilities because the two in question had two to three times the mortality rate of the leading facility in Toronto; medical teams were not getting enough practise.
But generally business likes the system; all that health care cost is transferred to government. If you dig into those who support universal health care in the US, you will find big business hiding somewhere, as Dubya has found out and why he promoting Pharmacare.
Posted by: john ||
09/02/2003 20:45 Comments ||
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#21
Raptor, yet those children w/o health care somehow manage to get their shots to be admitted to school ($350++ for my daughter and our plan only covers up to $150). Where they get eye and ear exams for free.
#22
I'd like to hear any of you smart asses wailing when you get downsized and thrown off the corporate tit--pay for your own health care in the "Free Market" for 20 years like I have--then you'll get the idea
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
09/02/2003 23:20 Comments ||
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#23
Anon,all you said is true.But that does not alter the fact that there are millions in this country who don't have medical coverage,why,because health insurance rates are outraegus.Ask any of these millions what they would rather have Socialized medicine or no medical care at all and see what aswer you get.Sounds to me like you are saying"I've got mine screw you".
As to the car insurance thing.When the state of Arizona passed mandatory automobile insurance my rates were $22/month,within 6 months my rates jumped to $37/month and that was for the bare minimum.Seems to me with every regestered car in Az.required to carry insurance my rates should not be more than$10-15/month.
Who was the biggest proponent of mandatory insurance,Mutual of Rip-off.
Israel declared "all-out war" against Hamas Monday and said it is freezing diplomatic relations with the Palestinian Authority unless the Palestinian leadership takes "tangible steps to deal with infrastructures of terror." ... Mondayâs statement from Israel said it has adopted the following positions:
⢠"An all-out war against Hamas and other terrorist elements, including continuous strikes at the organizationâs leaders";
⢠"Pressure on [focuses] of terror" in the West Bank; and
⢠A freezing of "the diplomatic process with the [Palestinian Authority] ... unless [Israel] sees that the PA is taking tangible steps to deal with the infrastructures of terror."
Since the Jerusalem bus bombing, the statement said, Israel had carried out "five targeted eliminations" of Hamas members and stepped up operational activities in the West Bank. "The security establishment is preparing for the possibility of a security escalation and renewed wave of terror against Israel," the statement said. CNN has been trying to contact Hamas officials for comment on the Israeli statement but has received no reaction. stunned, are they?
More likely in hiding. "I'm sorry, sir. Mr. Rantissi is out of the office... No, I'm sorry. I don't know where he is..."
All three groups [Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades] are considered terrorist organizations by the U.S. State Department. They have all announced an end to their self-imposed cease-fire, blaming Israelâs targeted killings of Hamas militants before and after the bus bombing. In my recollection it wasnât the Israelis who broke the ceasefire. I guess flying 7.62mm rounds are part of the flora and fawna of the region, like mosquitos. Anyone unlucky to get stung by one of them, dies of natural causes. Funny how it only affects Israelis.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/02/2003 4:09:27 AM ||
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would be nice if the reporter noted they announced the end of their ceasefire with flying body parts, shrapnel and dead civilians...or is that in dispute? Jeebus
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 8:28 Comments ||
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#2
Apparently "all-out war" is what it takes, so have at it. Decapitate the terrorist-connected leadership over and over until there is none.
Posted by: Tom ||
09/02/2003 9:00 Comments ||
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#3
All out war would mean occupying the Gaza and killing the several thousand (maybe tens of thousands) of Hamas functionaries there. What is being done is much less.
#4
Frank - You must've peeked at the abortion original... yep, a mish-mash disaster with that special Moron Press touch. Hey, Bro, it did come from Conjecture, Not News after all. Usually, once their "editor" finishes with a piece, I'll bet not even the "reporter" can recognize it. This post, thanks to terrific editing by Rafael, sticks to the point and makes sense!
Tom - agreed without reservation. To the finish, I hope. This has been on hold far too long.
One thing that I am very happy about is the lack of mixed or muddled messages coming from the admin. Every admin suffers this sort of mess in tough situations, including Dubya's in the past. This time, everyone is keeping their mouths shut, as they should.
NMM - Finally, the US isn't dictating or pressuring Israel to toe some insane line that no other country on the planet would be expected to follow. We are staying out of their way and they are taking care of business: eliminating the threats to their survival. If we continue to show good sense and STFU, the Israelis will reduce the terrorists to their lowest cadre soldiers - twits with an IQ on par with their hat sizes.
Notice that there is a great deal of interest in following through on their part of the "road map" by the Paleo talking heads - now that it's as dead as Trotsky. Funny shit, watching them - reminds me of the "dancing chicken" I saw as a kid at the State Fair of Texas. Cats on a hot tin roof comes to mind, as well. How about "I'm Dancing As Fast As I Can" - another fit. It's time for a new paradigm sans the professional mercs of Hamas, et al. Gonna be interesting a month or three down the "road" - don't you agree?
#5
whoa whoa whoa ! Europe doesn't think these groups are terrorist organizations; why should Israel declare war? Chirac, get Sharon on the phone and straighten him out. He's over-reacting, trying to be all tough like those gun-crazy Texan cowboy unilateralist pre-emptive imperialist American occupiers.
#6
That freaky character in 'The Two Towers' reminds me of the Paleos. The Palistinians need to become Jordanians and Egyptions again. A palistinian state would be a disaster for the world. All out war with Hamas is probably the best thing to happen but a wider conflict will be inevitable. The status quo is unexceptable. The Hamas objective of driving the Isrealies into the sea is not going to happen without total war. .com, I hope that in three or four months it will be very interesting. It would be a real drag if some new road map brings the world right back to the same damn crossroads. You know Egypt could end this farce today, shake hands with Israel and grow very prosperous. But they like that freaky character.
#7
Lucky---you hit the nail on the head. Hamas and friends are for the destruction of Israel. One does not negotiate with people bent upon your destruction---it is not good for one's health. I think GW and administration let this Roadmap run its natural course over a predicted cliff, not a mudhole, not a lake, but a big-assed cliff. Twenty Israeli civilians paid the price for this. The Israelis need to systematically pop the top of these terror organizations until they are destroyed. These organizations have been hiding under the skirts of the EU and middle eastern countries for too long. Now they AND the PA are becoming liabilities and even the Arabs will start dropping them like hot potatoes. Who knows, even Syria may someday realize that they are backing losers, but that is long odds.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/02/2003 14:40 Comments ||
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#8
ABOUT DAMNED TIME!
The Israelis have been far more patient than I would have been. Following their victory in 1967, they could have easily forced every Arab from Israel. The so-called "occupied territories" were, in truth, occupied by Egyptian and Jordanian government troops until they were kicked out in 1967.
Israel needs to clean house now, and I mean totally. Leave not one Arab not currently an Israeli Arab in the entire "palestine" territory. Tell the people receiving them that they can either assimilate them or kill them, but there's no way in hell they're going to be allowed back in Israel. Capture the really tough cases, like Arafart and the people heading the other terrorist organizations, and hang them - right on the border, so everybody can come and look.
Finally, go down into the Negev, to the most desolate spot you can find, and detonate a 20kt nuke in an underground 'test', just to let everybody know that good behavior is critical to continued breathing.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/02/2003 17:18 Comments ||
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Posted by: Frank G ||
09/02/2003 19:35 Comments ||
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#11
Old Patriot
Love that end of the world font.
Finally, go down into the Negev, to the most desolate spot you can find, and detonate a 20kt nuke in an underground 'test', just to let everybody know that good behavior is critical to continued breathing.
I quibble.... let 'em guess. Perhaps the Jooooooos got bombs that don't need testing? So well designed and of such excellent material that you wouldn't mind droping it next week? Something you'd be happy to show off? Something in a MIRV perhaps? Don't worry, we got your size.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
No one could imagine three-foot something 
