Every once in awhile I let too much time pass without reading Moira Breen's blog. I'm always sorry when that happens. I think she makes some good points today on the subject of same-sex marriage, which I normally don't spend an awful lot of time thinking about except to worry that someday it'll become mandatory. If you haven't visited her lately, and you have any non-WOT related opinions, you should do so...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 12:33 ||
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Obviously Moira has her knickers in a twist for SOME reason--ASS? AngrySinglegurlSyndrome? Fred by "mandatory"--you think you'll be forced to marry some guy? Ok "marriage" is a loaded word with religious connotations--but in a secular society--people who decide they want those benefits that devolve from the state--to which we all pay taxes and subsidize child tax credits--btw- should have the opportunity to have them.
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
08/08/2003 23:10 Comments ||
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A top German politician has called for sending military troops beyond the Afghan capital of Kabul, when the country hands over leadership of international peacekeeping troops in mid-August. Gernot Erler, foreign affairs expert for the Social Democrat Party (SPD), told the Berliner Zeitung on Tuesday that Germany could "theoretically deploy" as many as 700 troops for peacekeeping missions in provinces outside of Kabul, where security remains a problem. The troops would be those freed up from their duties in the current International Security Assistance Force, or ISAF, when Germany relinquishes its leadership of the troops to NATO. Germany has the largest number of troops in ISAF, with 2,600 soldiers stationed in Kabul. Germany has been called upon by the United States, United Nations, and Afghan President Hamid Karzai to extend its mission beyond the capital. Currently, the only troops operating outside Kabul are those in a U.S.-led coalition force hunting down Taliban and al-Qaeda remnants in the south and east of Afghanistan. Expatica reports:
The German government announced Friday that Defence Minister Peter Struck will fly to Kabul this weekend amid mounting indications that Germany will push for an expanded ISAF peacekeeping role in rebuilding Afghanistan. Ostensibly, Struck wants to be in the Afghan capital for the formal handover on Monday of German and Dutch ISAF command to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. But Struck repeatedly in recent days has said that he favours an expanded role for Germany. In Kabul he is expected to confer with a number of officials, including Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai, on an expanded role for the German Bundeswehr beyond Kabul and vicinity. Struck reportedly favours a setting up a German-overseen reconstruction project at Charikar, a town north of Kabul. Once Germans decide to do something they do it methodically. Maybe decisions sometimes take a bit longer because of that.
I hope they do that. It's time to start setting up pockets of control outside Kabul.
Posted by: True German Ally ||
08/08/2003 3:06:24 PM ||
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OK. We'll watch this. Sounds like theyre looking at something like the Provincial Reconstruction Teams, that US and UK are doing.
He [Bush] said the United States was working hard to bring other nations to bear responsibility in Iraq and in an unusual gesture, given the strains in U.S.-German relations, he praised Germany for assuming an active role in post-war Afghanistan.
"The reason I bring that up is, is that's a change from six months ago. And not only is Germany's participation important, it's robust -- more robust than we would have anticipated. I look forward to thanking Chancellor Schroeder for that," Bush said.
The ice is thawing... very fitting for the hottest day Germany has had in hundred years.
#3
This is good news. Getting the Germans to pick up a bigger part of the burden in Afghanistan is every bit as good as having them do so in Iraq.
Now then, is there anything we can do to throw the UN-NGO asshats out of Kabul? Not out of Afghanistan, out of Kabul, and get them into the countryside so that they'll do their flippin' jobs?
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/08/2003 20:46 Comments ||
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Omar al-Bayoumi, a Saudi national suspected of having contacts with two September 11 hijackers, was paid with Saudi government funds for several years while living in the United States, The Wall Street Journal said on Friday. The details of Bayoumiâs source of financial support was gleaned from newly reviewed internal documents from the Saudi government and Bayoumiâs employment records that link him to the Saudi government more directly than was previously known.
Somebody hand Prince Nayef a towel. There's egg on his face...
Bayoumi, who worked for a contractor for the Saudi civil aviation authority, befriended future September 11 hijackers Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid al-Midhar when they came to San Diego in early 2000 and even helped them pay rent, according to people familiar with a still classified section of a recently released congressional report on the attacks. He was questioned in Britain shortly after the attacks, but was released and quickly left for Saudi Arabia. Saudi Ambassador to the United States Prince Bandar bin Sultan has called allegations that Bayoumi was a Saudi agent âblatantly false.â
And we know he'd never lie to us...
Bayoumi, in interviews with Arab media outlets, has also dismissed the charges that he had contacts with the September 11 hijackers as groundless. An unclassified section of the congressional report said Bayoumi worked for the Saudi civil aviation authority at one time and had access to large amounts of money from unspecified sources in Saudi Arabia. The employment records in the hands of US investigators, however, show that money from the Saudi government was paid to Bayoumi as salary, ostensibly for working for a Saudi government contractor, when he lived in California. When the contractor tried to end Bayoumiâs employment in 1999 a Saudi government official objected and Bayoumi remained on the payroll.
"You can't fire him. We pay his salary, so we say he stays."
"But he don't do nothin'!"
For seven years, the finance department of a Saudi Civil Aviation Presidency project called Air Navigation Systems Support employed Bayoumi. Managed by Dallah Avco Aviation, the project is a unit of the giant Dallah Al-Baraka business group, which for five of the seven years was reimbursed by the government agency for Bayoumiâs salary.
Six Britons convicted of bombings in Saudi Arabia have been released from jail. The six were convicted of a wave of bombings in 2000 and early 2001, and two of them had faced public beheading. The Saudi Embassy said the men had been granted "royal clemency" and had left the country for Britain on Friday morning. Their press conference back on home soil should be interesting...
Sandy Mitchell, from Kirkintilloch, Glasgow, and Glasgow-born William Sampson — a longtime resident of Canada — faced public beheading after being convicted of planting a bomb under Christopher Rodwayâs car in November 2000. James Cottle from Manchester, Peter Brandon from Cardiff, Les Walker from the Wirral and James Lee from Dinas Powys, south Wales, were sentenced to up to 18 years each. A seventh Briton, Glenn Ballard, who was detained for 10 months but not charged, has also been released. Saudi authorities claimed the bombings, which also injured other foreigners, were part of an alleged feud over illicit alcohol trading among expatriates. But their families and campaigners claimed the six were scapegoats for the November 2000 blast and subsequent bombings, carried out by Islamic extremists. They said confessions made on television were forced out of them, and that they had been victims of torture and solitary confinement. The menâs lawyer Salah al-Hejailan said his clients were "grateful yet livid" for the clemency. But he said the men still insisted they were innocent, and had retracted the televised confessions soon after they were made. Mr al-Hejailan dismissed the official explanation for the bombings, saying alcohol sales would have earned the men he represented only a few thousand dollars a year and "could not possibly be a rationale for these crimes". Whereas plenty of the locals positively live for death.
He said the granting of clemency was in the interests of both the Saudi and British governments and praised the "political participation by all the governments". "They have done a very good job," he said. But the widow of Mr Rodway, who was herself slightly injured in 2000 car bombing, said she was "shocked" by the news. Jane Rodway, 53, from Reading, Berkshire, said: "Iâm a bit stunned and worried because they all said they were innocent and if they are, who did kill my husband and try to kill me? They are still guilty men. I just think, what next? Somebody killed my husband. I need to be given evidence from somewhere. I need to know the truth." Cut it with Occamâs razor for now, dear. The truth will out soon enough.
She said she understood the six had been released after her stepson Justin, 28, as the eldest male in the family, gave clemency to the men. She did not have a say under Saudi law. Sounds a trifle reality-challenged, this lady. Ideal BBC interviewee.
Supporter MP John Pugh said the release would "draw a line" under the case. He attributed the release to diplomatic pressure and recent meetings he and others had had with the new Saudi ambassador to London. He suggested that the Saudi authorities had realised the affair was damaging both the image of Saudi justice, and Saudi-UK relations. "I think they got the wrong people — they have another view — but nonetheless I think the outcome which has occurred is highly desirable," he said. "I donât imagine the Saudis will come out and publicly say their legal system is flawed. They will probably continue to say they caught the right men and this is more an act of mercy."
Posted by: Bulldog ||
08/08/2003 8:18:31 AM ||
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her stepson Justin, 28, as the eldest male in the family, gave clemency to the men.
#2
Now you know why it's called the Magic Kingdom. My experience there reflects al-Hejailan's opinion. Expats will get out of the business damn quick if there's a whiff that their operation is under pressure. Usually something where the boss will call in the moonshiner, tell him he can keep his job but will have to stop making the stuff. Otherwise, here's you exit-only visa. The moonshiner will comply.
But bombing a rival? Who are these guys? Capone wannabe's? Come on. I knew it was a bogus charge when I first heard about it. No way an expat could even get explosives.
Now, to move onto another subject, you can see why Chalabi's daughter's piece in the WSJ yesterday, in which she said her father's "troubles" with Jordanian authorities were due to Saddam's pressure, has legitimacy. Probably bogus charges, as well there.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/08/2003 10:22 Comments ||
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Hopefully a few of those daughters of American moms and Saudi fathers will get Visa's and permission to leave Saudi Arabia soon as the kingdom tries to clean up their image.
#4
Damn right, Yank. Maybe the Fahd Center for Understanding or whatever the hell it's called can make this topic part of the agenda.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/08/2003 11:53 Comments ||
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OK Republican apologists for this bunch of cretins we've been upholding--what say you now? I bet if the same # of Saudis would have been arrested on Visa vioaltions there would have been an exchange real quick! MR Putin?
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
08/08/2003 23:55 Comments ||
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Security forces foiled a bomb attack on the Al-Qasim Cement Company on Wednesday. Yaser Al-Sabeh, 27, was arrested in his room in the housing complex of the company located some 10 km north of Buraidah. Al-Sabeh worked as a bus driver for the company and lived at the menâs housing complex at the plant. Informed sources told Arab News that dynamite and explosives were found in his room for the apparent purpose of bombing the plant. The dynamite was of a different make from the companyâs own, the sources said.
It was an old family recipe...
Security forces evacuated the housing complex before raiding the manâs room, where they found explosives concealed in the air-conditioner. Prior to the attack Al-Sabeh had offered SR50,000 to the companyâs switchboard operator to persuade him to disconnect the phone lines for five minutes, and, when the operator refused, raised the offer to SR100,000. It was unclear whether the man belonged to a terrorist organization or had personal motives for the attack. A police checkpoint was set up next to the Al-Qasim cement plant just in the aftermath of the Riyadh bombing in May.
Doesn't matter. Cut his head off.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:10 ||
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Six missionaries taken hostage by a Solomon Islands warlord are all dead, according to the Australian diplomat leading the multinational peacekeeping force there. Nick Warner said he was told of the deaths during a meeting with the notorious rebel leader Harold Keke on the island of Guadalcanal. But he also said that Mr Keke had promised to surrender his weapons to the peacekeepers within a week, and agreed to allow the intervention force to open a police post near his stronghold.
Ummm... Was there maybe something in there about hanging Harold Keke?
Mr Warner gave no details of how or when the missionaries had died. The six hostages were members of an indigenous Anglican order called the Melanesian Brotherhood. They had been held by Harold Keke for several months in his hideout in the remote Weathercoast region, and at one stage were shown on Australian television smiling and sharing a meal with the rebel leader. In July three of their colleagues were released on the eve of the arrival of the intervention force. The multinational intervention force of about 2,000 troops arrived in the Solomons on 24 July, to try to restore stability to the Pacific nation and end the rampant corruption. Mr Keke is one of the chief reasons for their intervention.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/08/2003 5:42:10 AM ||
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The article sez that they may have been taken to serve as human shields. Doubtful now that they're dead and unable to serve that purpose.
A Russian mother said that conditions in Russian jails are so awful that she would prefer her son remain in the "humane" conditions of the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay. A number of governments, including Russiaâs, are in talks with the United States to extradite their nationals from the prison camp in Cuba, which was set up to house Taliban and al Qaeda suspects after the war in Afghanistan. "I am terribly scared of a Russian prison or Russian court for my son," Amina Khasanova was quoted as saying by Gazeta newspaper on Friday. "At Guantanamo they treat him humanely, the conditions are fine." Her son Andrei Bakhitov is one of eight Russian detainees, and the newspaper quoted a letter he wrote to his mother. "I think that there is not even a health resort in Russia on the level of this place," the letter said.
(I think this letter needs to be circulated around the world! Too bad these Ruskies donât understand they are being âtorturedâ and âmistreatedâ by their U.S. Zioniat overlords. Will this make more Bad guys surrender so they can go to Club Cuba?)
#1
NO! The Islam baddies are scared sh*tless of being sent to Gitmo. Squelch this as a CIA rumour of mis-direction and let the fear of Gitmo continue and grow.
#2
Craig is right! Iraqis, Afghanis, and the jihadi scum are all scared silly by the "horrors" of Gitmo! Squash this! Delete it! Slander it! "It's a lie! Horrors! Beatings! Torture! Forced viewings of Love Boat!"
Posted by: Dar ||
08/08/2003 16:41 Comments ||
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And dont forget the forced views of Barney the Purple Dinosaur too! Oh the humanity! Will the horror never stop?!
#5
It'll seem like a resort until they realize there might be no getting out. Imagine yourself spending the rest of your life in a cell at Club Med - except there's no women and no entertainment. I think they're right to fear it, although not necessarily for the right reasons.
They should play tune at Gitmo just to shake up the people who can understand English, but who aren't cooperating. Actually, they should also play that tune to English-speaking prisoners we've caught in Iraq. I think they'll get the message loud and clear.
#9
Badanov, they hate wimmin all right. But the best way to humiliate them is to put some women in charge -- women interrogators, women MPs, women officers who are obviously in charge, etc. It'll seriously undermine everything they've believed to this point.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/08/2003 20:50 Comments ||
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SW - on the mark, but do it in front of the other prisoners
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/08/2003 21:46 Comments ||
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And make them all cruel Dominatrix's
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
08/08/2003 22:47 Comments ||
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Sticks and Stones may break my bones,but Whips and Chains excite me.
Jailed Kurdish rebel leader Abdullah Ocalan has warned Turkey of renewed warfare if it sticks by its refusal to negotiate to end nearly two decades of conflict. In remarks carried by the Internet edition of the Ozgur Politika daily, Ocalan said his Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) would wait until September 1 to see whether Turkey was ready to sit down and talk with rebels. "If (Turkey) does not change its attitude, they (PKK rebels) will take care of themselves. Roads will be blocked, fighting will break out, the tourism industry will collapse. They will have to do these to live," he said.
And the Turks will have to kill all of them they can find. So sad.
His threat came as two PKK rebels turned themselves in to Turkish authorities to benefit from an amnesty in return for laying down their arms. However, Ocalan told Ozgur Politika that Turkey was forcing the PKK into war by excluding its leadership from the amnesty. "They are leaving 100 people out in this odd, provacative law. Everyone should know that there are at least 500 people are loyal to each leader," he said. "They (Turkish officials) are saying 'They (PKK rebels) cannot stay in Iraq, Iran'. This amounts to calling them back to Turkey to fight," Ocalan said. "If war starts, hundreds will die in the first stage. Then tens of thousands will die." The amnesty law has been eagerly awaited by the United States which has made clear its wish to purge northern Iraq of PKK fighters.
We sure as hell don't want them. We have enough terrorists to worry about.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:18 ||
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Being in jail really adds substance to his threats. Peshawar? Or am I mistaken?
#2
He's in the calaboose, but his PKK gunnies are still in northern Iraq. The Iraqi Kurds -- Talabani's bunch, anyway, and presumably Barzani's -- want a general amnesty for them, rather than for us to shoot them up and chase them out. The Turks are stuck with keeping Ocalan in jail, but if they were to shoot him or something then they'd draw more Kurds to KADEK and engender more sympathy for them.
The problem's political much more than it's a military problem.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/08/2003 9:40 Comments ||
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Dissident republican Real IRA leader Michael McKevitt was sentenced to 20 years in prison, a day after he was convicted for directing terrorism. The sentence was less than the possible maximum of life imprisonment set under a law in the Republic of Ireland that followed a bomb attack by the Real IRA in Omagh, Northern Ireland that left 29 dead and hundreds injured.
Faith! The boyz're right up there with the Qaedas!
The 1998 blast was the worst single atrocity of the troubles in Northern Ireland between its pro-British Protestant majority and Catholics who favor union with the republic. McKevitt, 53, was the first person ever to be convicted in Ireland of directing terrorism, an offence created in the wake of the Omagh bombing. He appeared in Dublin's Special Criminal Court on Thursday, after refusing the day before to leave his cell. Besides the 20-year prison term, he was also sentenced to serve six years concurrently for membership of an illegal organisation. His plans to appeal, expressed in a statement Wednesday, were dashed when the three judges who sit on the Special Criminal Court refused to give him leave to challenge the outcome.
I suppose he can always starve himself to death in protest...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:02 ||
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So what does he get? 26 years for 29 deaths. And hundreds injured physically and damaged for life psychologically. Do the division. This is the value on life in the eyes of the Irish judiciary? Anybody know what he can knock off his time for good behavior?
Posted by: Michael ||
08/08/2003 11:57 Comments ||
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Members of the Democratic party from Philadelphia have joined a large number of Muslims and a number of congressional leaders in opposing the nomination of Daniel Pipes, a controversial critic of Islam, to the governing board of the US Institute of Peace, a federally funded body. They have described him as an inappropriate pick for a group dedicated to promoting peaceful solutions to world conflicts. Pipes advocates scrutiny of American Muslims and military strikes against Islamic states that threaten American interests.
Oh, horrors! Uhhh... Why shouldn't we do both of those things?
A vote on the Pipes nomination by the US Senateâs Health, Education, Labour and Pensions Committee was postponed indefinitely on July 23 after several senators, led by Tom Harkin and Edward Kennedy attacked his nomination in strong terms. Muslim rights organisations across the nation have joined hands to persuade President Bush to withdraw the nomination. Hundreds of faxes and e-mail messages have flowed into the White House containing the demand. Only one Muslim academic, a Pakistani, has expressed guarded support for Pipesâ nomination.
That indicates either a pretty rigid definition of a "Muslim academic" or an unlikely degree of unanimity. Ask a random sampling of a hundred people if they'd vote for Mussolini and there are always some who'll say "yes, of course," and a certain proportion whose response is to ask if that sweater makes them look fat. Only in Iraqi or North Korean elections do you get a 100 percent vote...
Pipes, an academic, has written often in US and foreign papers, including the New York Post and the Jerusalem Post, warning of the dangers of immigration by arguing that a majority of Denmarkâs convicted rapists are Muslims.
They aren't?
He has also defended racial profiling by saying that one in 10 Muslims in America is a militant, and as such a potential terrorist. âThis is an individual that is a lightning rod, highly controversial,â Senator Harkin has said. âWhen he talks about Muslims being funny looking, bringing different customs, I am sorry, this is not the person that ought to be on the US Institute of Peace board.â
"We need somebody with a turban, or that nice fellow from CAIR who wears a brassiere cup on his head..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 22:32 ||
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LAHORE: Jamaat-ud-Daawa Ameer Hafiz Muhammad Saeed on Friday said the Kashmiri freedom struggle was a source of inspiration for Indian Muslims. Addressing the Friday sermon at Jamia Qadsia he said the Kashmir jihad would spread all over India and Gujrati Muslims would prepare jihadi squads to fight against the atrocities of the Hindus. He said the US president was scared of Islamâs jihadi spirit but the US would be ultimately defeated. He said the Jamaat would celebrate the Independence Day in a befitting manner.
A judge in Switzerland has found former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and her husband, Asif Zardari, guilty of money laundering and has sentenced them to a six-month suspended jail term. "The Swiss Investigation Officer Mr Devaud has on July 31... passed an order pronouncing six months of suspended sentence and a fine of 50,000 dollars each," the couple's mouthpiece laywer and senator Farooq Naek said in a statement Tuesday.
That's a right hefty Eurosentence, I guess...
The case concerns allegations that the couple received millions of dollars in private commissions from a Swiss national in return for awarding SGS a contract to inspect imports and exports during Bhutto's second government from 1993 to 1996. Pakistani officials from the National Accountability Bureau have visited Switzerland over the last few years and asked investigators there to look into the allegations. An investigation found several numbered accounts in Switzerland in which more than $11m had been deposited.
With that much jack in stash, I guess they can afford a $50,000 fine.
Naek slammed the Swiss investigator's finding as "malafide and politicially motivated."
"Yeah. Them Swissers is always meddlin' in Pak politix!"
"The investigation officer's order is illogical, unreasonable, inconsistent with law... and is politically motivated," Naek said.
Yep. That must be it. It can't possibly be that they're a coupla crooks.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:02 ||
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six months of suspended sentence
This suspended sentence thing, is it solely a European phenomenon? Seems they give out a lot of suspended sentences over there.
#2
Well, Raphael, not quite. Do you recall the trailor-trash father-son team that attacked the KC Royal first base coach towards the end of the 2001 season at the then Comiskey Park? Well, two days ago, a Cook County judge gave the dad 30 months probation; this, despite the fact that the coach has lost some hearing in one ear. The judge said that the fact that the injury was only "minor" was part of his justification for the light sentence. Local guy John Kass wrote yesterday how this judge has let violent guys go free, only later to commit murders. Go figure. Ireland, Switzerland, USA.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/08/2003 12:07 Comments ||
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I know this doesn't have a thing to do with the WOT, but does anyone know an address or email address where we can rip that asshole judge who foisted that WORTHLESS sentence in the baseball case? When I heard about it yesterday my blood boiled!
via Instapundit
A top Bush administration weapons investigator told Congress in closed testimony last week that he has uncovered solid information from interviews, documents, and physical evidence that Iraqi military forces were ordered to attack US troops with chemical weapons, but did not have the time or capability to follow through, according to senior defense and intelligence officials. oops...WMDâs? Gov. Dean?
The alleged findings by David Kay, a former UN weapons inspector now working for the United States, would buttress the administrationâs claim that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was concealing weapons of mass destruction — a key component of President Bushâs case for war that has since fallen into dispute. Kayâs report acknowledged that his team of 1,400 investigators had not yet found any such weapons, raising the possibility that Hussein either hid them, destroyed them, or was simply bluffing in his orders to the Republican Guard. trick! Gotcha!
Kay told Congress his team is searching new sites almost daily, interviewing scientists and captured leaders, and sifting through thousands of pages of documents. A summary of his report, described by officials who have seen it, said Republican Guard commanders were ordered by Husseinâs regime to launch chemical-filled shells at oncoming coalition troops, and that Kay believes he will soon know why the shells werenât launched. ââThey have found evidence that an order was given,ââ but no definitive explanation for why the weapons werenât used, said a senior intelligence official with access to Kayâs report who asked not to be identified. too busy bugging out...
Or not wanting to receive a tactical nuke in return...
Before the war, US defense officials, citing what they described as intercepted Iraqi military communications, said that Iraqi forces were ordered to use chemical weapons. On March 28, one week into the war, US Central Commandâs deputy director for operations, Brigadier General Vincent Brooks, said, ââWe have seen indications through a variety of sources . . . [that] orders have been given that at a certain point chemical weapons may be used.ââ Brooks cited the discovery of hundreds of chemical protection suits at locations south of Baghdad as an indication that Iraqis were prepared to engage in chemical warfare. But despite Kayâs report, some specialists are skeptical.
But naturally. Some "specialists" would be skeptical if they were wading through the stuff wearing hip boots...
David Albright, a former UN weapons inspector who has worked with Kay, said Kay has long been a zealous advocate of the idea that Iraqis had been poised to use chemical weapons, even asserting after the war that the weapons had been dumped in the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. No weapons have been found in the rivers. ââHe started with such a strong view that this is true that I am suspicious,ââ said Albright, now president of the Institute for Science and International Security in Washington. ââIf the military had this order, where did the weapons go?ââ
Dunno. That's why we have to look for them, ain't it?
A former paid commentator for NBC News, Kay has alienated some people by having network cameras follow him as he searches for weapons. Still, US officials expressed confidence that Kay not only would substantiate the claims that Iraqi commanders were given orders to use chemical weapons, but that he would show what happened to the weapons. ââIt sounded like they had something that they could hold up and say `Here is the reason why it didnât take place,â ââ said a defense official who also has read Kayâs progress report.
If Kay didn't believe there were WMDs to be found, what good would he be as an inspector?
Another senior defense official, who had not read the report, suggested that the United States may have convinced Iraqi field commanders not to use the weapons, by warning them through leaflets, radio broadcasts, and secret communications that they could face war-crimes charges. ââWe tried to dissuade them in very public ways, and there were clearly covert ways as well,ââ the official said. Other officials had a variety of explanations of why the weapons were not used. Among the possibilities: In the chaos that ensued during the war, the weapons could not be delivered to front-line units; they were hastily hidden and have yet to be found; or they were destroyed by Iraqi officials or US air attacks. Some even hold out the possibility that the orders were part of a disinformation campaign to deter coalition troops from invading.
That could very well be. If so, it was probably history's most dumbass disinformation campaign, wasn't it?
Kay, speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill last week, suggested he believes the weapons were hidden away.
"Shave, sir?"
"Yes, thank you, Occam."
ââThe active deception program is truly amazing once you get inside it,ââ he said. ââWe have people who participated in deceiving UN inspectors now telling us how they did it.ââ
They did just about everything but stand on their heads and spit quarters...
Other top administration officials this week expressed new confidence that illegal weapons will ultimately be found in Iraq. Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, speaking to reporters at the Pentagon on Tuesday, said the recent discovery of Russian-built fighter aircraft buried in the Iraqi desert was a ââclassic exampleââ of Iraqâs adeptness at hiding things. ââWe had not known where they were, and weâd been operating in that immediate vicinity for weeks and weeks and weeks,ââ he said.
"For that matter, if there happened to be a few quarts of botulinum buried six feet under the aircraft, who's going to come back and excavate the same spot?" the Scarlet Pimpernel asked.
Proof that Iraqi troops were poised to use chemical weapons might ease criticism that the administration exaggerated the threat posed by Hussein. But Joseph Cirincione, a nonproliferation specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said that it would not justify the adminstrationâs depiction of Hussein as an imminent threat to the United States.
"Nope. Nope. No threat. Move along..."
ââMost of us believe that there was some program and some weapons hidden,ââ he said. ââBut the debate wasnât over weapons, it was over war. In four months, not a gram of anthrax has been found, not an ounce of mustard gas. Was the threat so great we had to go to war? The question for Kay is not was there mustard gas, but was there a substantial amount of mustard gas? If this is all he has — if he has it — this just isnât enough.ââ
"Nope. Too little, too late..."
Kay said he would unveil his findings publicly within six months, officials said. ââWe do not want to go forward with partial information that we have to retract afterwards,ââ he said while briefing reporters last week. ââWeâre building a solid case that will stand.ââ Indeed, one intelligence official said Kay and his team are preparing a ââlegal caseââ to prove Iraqâs violations of weapons restrictions, though it is the court of public opinion, not any judicial proceeding, that the administration must sway.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/08/2003 3:29:08 PM ||
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But Joseph Cirincione, a nonproliferation specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said that it would not justify the adminstrationâs depiction of Hussein as an imminent threat to the United States.
Ya know, I keep hearing people claiming this, but I distinctly remember Bush saying Iraq was not an immediate threat. Why do reporters let that statement stand without challenge?
The question for Kay is not was there mustard gas, but was there a substantial amount of mustard gas?
Note the peacenik's weaseling on this: a substantial amount. What's substantial? Who decides? As it stands, no matter what amount is found, the nuts can declare it "not substational".
And I have no doubt that's precisely what they'll do.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/08/2003 15:53 Comments ||
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#2
Dang! RC, ya beat me to it....but RTFO! The droning on about "imminent threat" is all BS. The Libs are using their tried and tested method of repeating the Big Lie with a willing press ready to parrot whatever bilge they happen to be pumping that day. In the end, I think we will see that W played them all for suckers.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/08/2003 16:36 Comments ||
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#3
Proof that Iraqi troops were poised to use chemical weapons might ease criticism that the administration exaggerated the threat posed by Hussein.
Not a chance. The Libs do not care for facts in the least. This is politics and they are it in for the acquisition and maintenance of power...period - and to hell with the WTO.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/08/2003 16:45 Comments ||
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#4
where is the proof that such an attack was ordered ahahah ...hear say all over again. Or is the proof like the one which was used to prove speicher was in an Iraqi cell...by scriblings on the wall saying M.S.S ahaah it could have stood for mohammed sheikh shakur or something ...paranoia is not proof of nothing...where is the mustard gas then if it was supposed to be used on the coalition....where is it..syria ? ofcourse now just provide us with yet again proof
#5
If it comes, will you go back to the cave you ascended from?
Posted by: Brian ||
08/08/2003 17:42 Comments ||
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#6
The Troll is off his meds again. Someone set us up the bomb.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/08/2003 18:45 Comments ||
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#7
oh and yes that other rant post I meant to say the WOT....heh heh, not WTO. Apologies. But then they don't like that one either. Beer o'Clock. Outta here.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/08/2003 18:51 Comments ||
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Tacitus has a great PowerPoint presentation (~1MB) showing one of the moonbatâs Mig-25 Foxbats being unearthed. If the file is too large or you donât have PowerPoint, Iâve got three pix extracted and posted at my site.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/08/2003 10:48:21 AM ||
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#1
I wouldn't imagine being buried in the sand like that helped make them anymore flyable. It didn't do nice things to their tanks when they tried that, either.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/08/2003 10:55 Comments ||
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#2
Burying them only serve the purpose of trying to hide the fact that the French and Russian Govt's violated the 1991 UN arms embargo. The version of the foxbat in this picture is a high altitude reconnisance model ( the third worlds SR-71)
I think the revelation of these pics in public is a warning to the european governments. I think the reason we havent heard anything publically about WMD, is we are working with the Govt's that sold components to Iraq to not only clean up what they sent there but to extort them into not doing it with any other countries. In other words " Help clean it up, tell is whom else you sold it to, stop selling it - OR we go public with what we found in Iraq".
I'm confident at some point in the near future, an acceptible level of "scrubbed" WMD will be found, to make the case, but not to embarrass the european governments who had a hand in creating the problem in the first place.
Posted by: frank martin ||
08/08/2003 12:35 Comments ||
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#3
Per Joe Pesci in the opening scene of "Casino"-
There are holes out in the desert. Make sure you dig the holes first, though, or someone else may come along, and you'll have to whack them... next thing you know you will be out in the desert all night digging f**king holes...
#4
Ha! An obvious 'Murkin deception. Bush sent the planes there and had them photographed as his kaffir soldiers buried them. View the slide show backwards and you will see the truth.
S. Huissein
Somewhere in Tikrit
Kurdish leaders have refused a US request to allow 12,000 Turkish troops through northern Iraq for a possible peacekeeping assignment in the city of Falluja, a Kurdish official said on Wednesday. Adel Murad, head of the political office of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), said the request came at the weekend from General John Abizaid, head of US central command, in a meeting in the northern city of Mosul with the leaders of PUK and its occasional rival, the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP). Mr Murad said any introduction of Turkish troops into Iraq would damage Kurdish support for the US-led effort to form a new Iraqi government and could spark violence between Turkish forces and Kurdish fighters.
I'd be happy to see the Turks in Falluja, though I can understand the Kurdish concerns...
The Kurdish refusal throws up another hurdle to the US's efforts to get a third division of foreign troops to help ease the burden on its 146,000 forces in Iraq. The UK is already manning a southern peacekeeping headquarters in Basra, and a Polish-led coalition is expected to take over security operations in five provinces south of Baghdad next month. Turkish peacekeepers could be airlifted into central Iraq, where they could patrol areas dominated by fellow Sunni Muslims, but it would be expensive. Bush administration officials have acknowledged approaching Ankara about taking part, but Gen Abizaid's request — made to Jalal Talabani, PUK leader, and Masoud Barzani, KDP chief — is the most concrete sign that Turkey and the US have agreed on co-operation.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:14 ||
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#1
Screw that ship them all the way around to the Gulf,you know like what happen to 4ID.One of those goose/gander things.
Philippine President Gloria Arroyo said she would push for the maximum penalty for rebel soldiers who carried out an alleged coup attempt against her government. Arroyo said she was for "total justice based on due process" as officials said dozens more rebel soldiers and civilian conspirators involved in the plot would be prosecuted. "The secondary aim of the mutineers if they did not succeed in toppling the government is to weaken national leadership," Arroyo said in a statement. "We shall prove them wrong. We shall seek the maximum penalty for those who planned, led and executed this misadventure." Senior figures in the alleged plot could face life imprisonment if found guilty.
Thirty-eight more soldiers would be charged with rebellion in civilian courts, in addition to 321 colleagues indicted earlier for their brief takeover of a section of the Makati financial district on July 27, National Bureau of Investigation chief Reynaldo Wycoco said. "Apparently when they (military authorities) conducted a headcount and processing of the soldiers, there were 38 others who were missed out," Wycoco said on ABS-CBN television. The mutiny swiftly fizzled out after failing to rally wider support, but the government maintains it was part of a larger plot allegedly led by opposition Senator Gregorio Honasan to unseat and possibly assassinate President Arroyo and replace her with a 15-member junta. It brought the total of soldiers detained for the mutiny to 359. The military's inspector general on Wednesday recommended separate court-martial proceedings against 45 military officers involved in the siege. Prosecutors have also filed criminal complaints for rebellion against Honasan, who has gone into hiding, as well as a former member of cabinet of detained former president Joseph Estrada.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:02 ||
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More "interesting" stuff from Pepe
THE ROVING EYE
Jihad virus attacks Pentagon logic
By Pepe Escobar
BANGKOK - Pentagon spin, via Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, has it that "Iraq now is the central battle in the war on terrorism." Al-Qaedaâs No 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, aka The Surgeon, has proved Wolfowitz, the Pentagonâs No 2, wrong. Proved?
Al-Zawahiri had warned "the American people" that what they had seen so far were only the "initial skirmishes" of a war. Two days later, a devastating bomb at the Marriott Hotel in southern Jakarta killed at least 16 people and wounded about 150, most of them Indonesians, not Westerners. The International Islamic Front, or call it the al-Qaeda global franchising business, was just waiting for an opening. The Bush administrationâs logic in its "war against terror" is that security does not exist unless martial hygiene is fully imposed. What is "martial hygiene" Military showers?
Security is arguably much tighter in the United States and Europe after September 11, 2001. But how do you secure a huge archipelago like Indonesia, spread out over the sea like a string of pearls for more than 5,000 kilometers? Answer: You dont defend. You attack.
Pressure on the government of President Megawati Sukarnoputri is useless. Pressure to do what? And why is it useless?
The United States cannot have it both ways. After faithful military servant Suharto had outlasted his usefulness, I seem to recall he fell after an economic crisis
Washington said it wanted democracy in Indonesia - but with no resurgence of Islamist sentiment. But there are various degrees of Islam in Indonesia, from the tolerant, tropical, soft Southeast Asian version to the kick-out-the-foreigners-letâs-bring-the-caliphate-back brand of Jemaah Islamiyah (JI). Whats the point?that we cant accept moderate Islamist sentiment in Indon - obviously we can.
Everybody for the moment seems to agree that Jemaah Islamiyah is behind the Jakarta bombing as it was behind the Bali bombing of last October 12. The timing of the Jakarta bombing may be related to the fact that this Thursday an Indonesian court is to deliver its verdict on Amrozi, the first person to go on trial over the Bali bombing. And the trial of Abu Bakar Bashir, the alleged leader of JI, is also due to reopen. But the most important fact is that Hambali, aka Riduan Isamuddin, is still on the loose. Hambali is the de facto, No 1 in JI. He is No 1 on Southeast Asiaâs most-wanted list. And he is also a senior al-Qaeda operative. The administration of US President George W Bush still has not understood that jihad - this worldwide anti-American jihad - is not an enterprise. Its broader than one enterprise, but tends to operate through a number of enterprises, many of which are linked.
Jihad is based on individual commitment. It operates as a nebula. How does a nebula operate?
It spreads like a virus. Al-Zawahiri sends a signal on tape and a cell somewhere with strike capability seizes an opportunity. They have to have money and training. We can stop that. And if they lose in enough places, that can change the AQ claim to success and divine favor, and thus can impact recruitment.
Intelligence agencies repeat that dozens of plots have been foiled these past few months. But not all of them. This is news?
Indonesia will always be a prime target - a fragile link in security terms, crammed with US interests. Crammed?
In his tape, al-Zawahiri says something crucial: "We are saying to America one thing: What you saw with your eyes so far were only initial skirmishes, for the real battle hasnât even started yet. Therefore it is upon the American people whose armies have killed our women and children, if they care about their future and their future generations to come, to start relying on their mind and logic before it is too late to repent." How is this crucial?
European intelligence sources in Brussels have told Asia Times Online that the US strategy in Iraq is something like a Spanish bullfight. By showing a red rag - in the form of an occupation force - the Bush administration expects to attract all manner of hard-to-find Islamist bulls. According to this logic, it would be easier for the Islamist bulls to attack American soldiers than to attack Americans around the world. The flypaper strategy. Ive seen it cited as defense for the otherwise stupid "bring em on" remark. Maybe its true. But its hardly the main strategic justification for going into Iraq.
The problem is, the bulls are not playing the game. Thereâs no hard evidence up to now - and not a single arrest - of jihadis attacking the Americans in Iraq. Of course, as the occupation drags on thereâs a strong possibility of Afghan-trained jihadis increasingly relocating to Iraq. But the jihadi virus is global. It manifests itself in attacks in Africa one attack in the last 2 years,
in porous Indonesia 2 attacks in the last 2 years, the first of which resulted in rolling up a large part of JI - this second attack doesnt look like its bringing down the Indon state, but turning it harder against JI,
in the daily attacks in Afghanistan despite which, the central govts authority slowly grows.
in the presumedcapacity of JI to strike sooner or later in Thailand, Malaysia or even fortress Singapore. Paul Wolfowitz and the Pentagon will have to revise their logic. Martial hygiene is not working. The Bush administrationâs first reaction to September 11 was to try to destroy al-Qaeda. But Osama bin Laden could not be captured. Ayman al-Zawahiri could not be captured. Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, could not be captured. thats cause we havent dealt with pakistan yet.
So the screenplay had to be changed, to Wolfowitzâs original idea: smash Saddam Hussein. Evil metamorphosed from Osama to Saddam. Saddam may be gone, but al-Qaeda remains, and on top of it the US now faces a national liberation struggle not according to most iraqis
in Iraq that is led neither by remnants of the Baâath Party nor by al-Qaeda, but by Iraqi Sunnis and Shiâites alike. Then why is the Shiite region so quiet. And why are all the captured guerillas Baathists? And why are there tactics so militarily sophisticated?
Only a long-term, carefully elaborated political strategy would be able to contain this worldwide anti-US jihad. Yes, thats true, but Iraq is part of that political strategy. Democratization and modernization. Which go hand in hand with the military strategy. Whatâs Pepeâs political strategy?
Thereâs no possible military solution. You canât kill a virus with a barrage of TOW missiles. But you can kill the thugs who stop you from administering vaccines.
And, according to al-Zawahiri, "The real battle hasnât even started yet."
But according to Zawahiri, they didn't lose the first one.
#1
Crap journo for Asia Times who makes Robert Fisk look like a professional.Fell for the "Al-Qaeda Nuke Hoax".Jihadunspun is more fun.
Posted by: El Id ||
08/08/2003 15:30 Comments ||
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#2
Pfeh. Pepe's full of Pepe. It is more than obvious that AQ has been hurt, splintered, and scattered by efforts thus far. The most effective AQ-specific were the military demolition of the Taliban and the ongoing efforts to track down and remove access to funding. A number are in custody in various locations - and except for those held by Iran - they are obviously out of action for now, if not actively singing their little shrunken hearts out.
It's hard to see this story as anything but a paid-shill's attempt to demoralize anti-AQ efforts. He thinks he's got Wolfowitz's number - which is pretty funny. I would suggest that Wolfie's a coupla hundred times smarter that Pepe on his best day.
Several statements are factually incorrect, such as "no hard evidence up to now - and not a single arrest - of jihadis attacking the Americans in Iraq" - refuted in several reports by military interrogators. LH points out others, such as the claim that the Shi'a and Sunnis are united in a liberation struggle against the coalition. Bullshit - all the action is in the Ba'athist buttwipe triangle.
He wants readers to believe that only some political accomodation (read: appeasement) will ameliorate, not solve, the "worldwide anti-US jihad". Bullshit.
First we won't play that game anymore. It didn't work throughout the 90's - things only became worse. The jihadis are NOT viruses, they are men. Their beliefs are NOT going to prevail - unless we just give up. Their abilities can be greatly hampered by intelligence - to stop funding and arms and freedom of movement. A HUGE step can be taken if we either pressure or force other Govts to stop giving them cover - via all the means that nations can support them - and sabotage our efforts. When located, they can be killed - or better yet - sent to Gitmo (Oooooohhhh!) and wrung dry.
If we are willing to bite the bullet and root out where they can hide (Iran, Saudi, Egypt, SyrLeb, Indo, Malay, Paki, etc) and stop their seditious activity in the West, right under our noses, we can stop this idiocy. We will have to deal with these "countries" - whatever it takes, and we will have to deal with our own laws so our freedoms are not used against us. We will have to deal with the Pepe Escobars, too, and ascertain their motivations and their purposes, for subversion and sabotage can come from mere words and access to media outlets. Scary? Yep, you damned right it is - to everyone. It will hurt and it will be costly and it will frighten many. Such is the nature of war. And this is a war of survival. We can do it intelligently or stupidly with a heavy hand, but do it we must as it is about survival - and that includes the survival of the shitheads who are the tools and fools of the enemy.
We just have to get smarter every day and tougher every day and persevere. We have to get down, dirty, and bloody - and kill this pathogenic threat to freedom.
to start relying on their mind and logic before it is too late to repent
So, do we rely on our minds and logic--which is telling me to kick your asses until you can wipe your butts through your nostrils--or do we go against rational, humanistic, logical thought, and subjegate ourselves in front of your god and "repent" for whatever you imagine to be our sins, al-Zawahiri?
******
Jesus.
Obvioulsy there is not a word in the jihadi vocabulary for irony, oxymoron, or self-contradictory.
The United States on Friday designated feared Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev a threat to US national security and imposed financial sanctions on him, including a freeze on his assets. Basayev âhas committed, or poses a significant risk of committing, acts of terrorism that threaten the security of US nationals or the national security, foreign policy or economy of the United States,â Secretary of State Colin Powell said. The blacklisting of Basayev under various executive orders signed by President George Bush in response to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States was announced in the Federal Register.
What the hell took so long?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 22:56 ||
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BOGOTA: Four people were killed and three injured Friday in a car bomb explosion in Saravena, northeastern Colombia, police said. Police Chief Luis Alcides Morales of the Arauca department said the victims, all civilians, included two adults and two minors, and that the bomb was detonated as a police patrol was passing. He did not immediately speculate on responsibility for the bomb. Numerous guerrilla groups are active in this violence-ridden department, where a grenade attack in Saravena July 17 killed one and injured 17, hours after a visit by Colombian President Alvaro Uribe. Seventy US Special Forces troops have been in Arauca since January, training a Colombian anti-guerrilla to protect a strategic oil pipeline used by the US firm Occidental Petroleum.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 22:21 ||
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The U.S. military called on South Korean authorities yesterday to prosecute to the "fullest extent possible" a group of anti-American student activists who entered one of the local U.S. bases Thursday. The Eighth U.S. Army said yesterday it had apprehended 12 Korean students and turned them over to Korean police authorities after they illegally entered the Rodriquez Range Complex, a firing range in northern Gyeonggi, and halted its regular training program. "We strongly support the right to peacefully assemble and the right to free speech, yet we do not condone illegal entry into military installations or violent actions," the Eighth U.S. Army said in a statement.
"Get those assholes off our goddamned firing range!"
U.S. Army officials explained that entering an installation where live weapons are being used and armored vehicles are engaged in active training is extremely dangerous and can result in severe injury and loss of life to the individuals protesting as well as to the soldiers on duty. Student activists belonging to the radical Hanchongnyeon group rallied nationwide in anti-U.S. demonstrations Thursday, throwing red paint and burning the U.S. flag in some cases. In their view of the United States as encouraging the likelihood of war on the Korean Peninsula, these radicals demand the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Korea and a nonaggression pact to be signed between Pyongyang and Washington as a peace overture to North Korea.
"It is unfortunate that U.S. soldiers who are conducting high-levels of training to defend the Republic of Korea are disrupted by a student radical group," Lt. Gen. Charles C. Campbell, commander of the Eighth U.S. Army in the statement. What are we waiting for. Get our troops the hell out of there.
Posted by: g wiz ||
08/08/2003 7:25:50 PM ||
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#1
Just as in Vieques - "you walked deliberately into firing range - are you actively campaigning for posthumous Darwin awards, or just stupid" -
"OK to Fire Away or remove our troops?" was the appropriate response
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/08/2003 21:45 Comments ||
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Yeah. It could happen. I can feel my waistline shrinking, too...
The shelling was the first in eight months. Israel responded with airstrikes and artillery fire. Hezbollah said in a statement that its attack was in retaliation for the killing of a Hezbollah security official Saturday south of Beirut. Hezbollah blamed Israel for killing Ali Hussein Saleh, who died when a bomb tore apart his car. Hezbollahâs Al-Manar television, quoting unnamed security sources, said the attack resulted in "a number of casualties" among Israeli soldiers, but Israeli military sources said there were none.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/08/2003 3:40:48 PM ||
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I buried my Dad yesterday at Arlington. He was 82, served with the Negro troops in WWII in the Pacific theater and almost 40 years in the Army Reserves. Retired as a LTC. He was given a full honor ceremony. Beautiful. Must have been 50 soldiers participating; band, rifles, the whole bit. They were on a tight schedule though. Timed to the minute and then off to the next service. We were quickly moved away from the site and the Coast Guard moved right in behind. They saluted our car as we drove past. You gotta love these kids.
Hereâs a couple of stories that caught my eye this morning.
#4
America is a great nation because of people like your father. May he rest in peace.
Arlington is a national treasure. Ditto for the military cemetaries overseas. I encourage all Americans to visit at least one if they find themselves in Europe. The Battlefield Monuments Commission does a magnificent job caring for our war dead far from home.
Posted by: Ned ||
08/08/2003 14:01 Comments ||
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#5
Your fathers final resting place is on "Sacred Ground".
When I think of the military cemeteries, I am reminded that they look like the formations for muster and such. In some way, the very formations in the cemetey give the rest of us strength and comfort.
#9
I echo all of the above. The honorable and dedicated few protect the lives and freedoms of the many. Your pride is perfectly placed. My thanks to your father and his brothers in arms.
#11
May God bless and comfort your family. Thanks to your father and thanks very much for posting that.
Posted by: Christopher Johnson ||
08/08/2003 17:07 Comments ||
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#12
Beautiful story Fullwood. Thanks for sharing. We all owe a debt of gratitude to your father and the others who gave so much so we may enjoy the fruits of liberty today. My condolences to you and your family.
#13
When I was stationed in Panama, I joined the USAFSO Command Honor Guard. One of our duties was to participate in all military funerals. I've never been to one that didn't cause a few tears. No duty, however, was more fulfilling.
Both my parents served in WWII - Dad in the Army, Mom in the Navy. I'm proud of them, and what they helped accomplish. Like Fullwood's father, they played key roles in not only ending several tyrannies, but in securing our freedom for another generation. God bless them one and all!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/08/2003 18:36 Comments ||
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#14
Thanks for sharing a beautiful story, Fullwood. We all owe a debt of gratitude to your father and the others who gave so much so we may enjoy the fruits of liberty today.
#16
My father was interred in Ft. Rosecrans on Point Loma, San Diego, and remembering the military tribute still brings tears to my eyes. Our local Boy Scouts put individual flags on each and every one of the graves at the major appropriate holidays, and I'm sure something similar happens in each of your locales, fellow Americans. Is this a great country or what?? Never Stop. Never Forget. Never let the fight against these bastards die
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/08/2003 21:57 Comments ||
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JPost - Reg Reqâd
In the first attack of its kind in seven months, Hizbullah fired mortars, anti-tank missiles, Katyushas and automatic weapons fire at IDF positions in the Har Dov and Hermon regions on Israelâs northern border with Lebanon Friday morning. The attack, described as âmassiveâ by the IDF spokesperson, commenced at 09:40 AM. IDF artillery units and IAF attack helicopters returned fire. Iran mustâve ordered a step-up in attacks from just AA shrapnel
Israeli warplanes also responded with heavy air strikes on the eastern, western and southern edges of the Sheba Farms area. No injuries on either side have been reported. The border is quieter now, but sporadic fire still persists. IAF helicopters are still in the area. quieter = deader?
Foreign media reported that an IDF radar installation was damaged in the attack, but these reports have yet to be confirmed by the IDF. A Lebanese official said on condition of anonymity that Israeli troops responded with artillery fire targeting suspected guerrilla hideouts around the Sheba Farms area. Shell fragments from Hizbullah rockets were reported in western sector of the northern border in the Rosh Hanikra area. There were no injuries and no damage was reported. An Israeli government spokesperson said in reaction to the Hizbullah attack that Israel would have to check if Hizbullah was taking a new direction. "Hizbullah has an insatiable interest in heating up the northern border. We need to check if this incident was encouraged by outside forces who are not happy with the cease-fire, for example Iran; or if weâre talking about a local decision to open fire. Uh huh..just asking to have that reactor taken out, arenât they?
In any case, the Hizbullah doesnât do anything without a reason," said the spokesperson. A Kiryat Shmona resident said people in Kiryat Shmona were trying to keep to a normal routine. IDF Northern Command suspects that Fridayâs attack is Hizbullahâs response to the killing of one of its activists in a Beirut bomb blast last week. Hizbullah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah has blamed Israel for the activistâs death. Nasrallah needs a little taste of the IDF as well
Hizbullah released a statement to the media Friday saying its attack on IDF positions in the Har Dov region was carried out by a unit calling itself the "Ali Hussein Saleh Group". they play Arabic Jazz Tunes, donât they?
Ali Hussein Saleh was killed in a car bomb in the southern suburbs of Beirut on Saturday. oh...
"The martyr Ali Hussein Salehâs groups in the Islamic Resistance attacked... Zionist enemy positions at the radar, Rouweissat al-Alam and al-Sammaqa using live and rocket weapons and hit them directly," said a Hizbollah statement. Lebanese security forces have detained three men for questioning over Salehâs killing after finding sophisticated radio communication equipment in a building near the dead manâs home, a senior Lebanese army source said, without naming the detainees.
Bad place to be a ham radio operator. Or is a satphone "sophisticated communications equipment"?
"Todayâs operation is part of Hezbollahâs policy and decision to continue the (armed) resistance to liberate our land," Hezbollah legislator Ali Ammar told Abu Dhabi Television. Lebanon, backed by Syria, considers the Sheba Farms area still occupied by Israel as its territory, and Hizbullah has vowed to liberate it. The United Nations says the territory belongs to Syria and should remain under Israeli control until discussions between Syria and Israel.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/08/2003 12:25:20 PM ||
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#1
IDF*
*Subsidiary of the US Army, paid for by our tax dollars for a still unseen benefit to the US Taxpayer
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
08/08/2003 23:46 Comments ||
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JPost - Reg reqâd
Staff-Sergeant Roi Oren, 20, from Moshav Udim near Netanya, was killed early Friday morning in a battle with Palestinian terrorists in a refugee camp near Nablus. Oren was laid to rest this afternoon at 15:30 in Udimâs cemetery. Oren belonged to the IDFâs elite naval commando unit Shayetet 13, which entered the Askar refugee camp east of Nablus on the West Bank at 4:30 A.M. to arrest wanted Hamas terrorists. Two top Hamas bomb makers were killed during the raid. Good - donât want em as prisoners
The operation was directed at capturing senior Hamas fugitives who were located in the three-story building in the camp, said Judea and Samaria Divisional commander Brig.Gen. Gadi Eizencot in a briefing with reporters near Tapuah. Acting on an intelligence tip off, the soldiers surrounded the three-story building where the two fugitives, Khamis Abu Salem and Said Fadder, who were planning bomb attacks against Israelis were hiding. The troops called out to the fugitives to surrender; in response the terrorists opened fire, killing IDF Staff Sgt. Roi Oren. Expect to hear the same whiners asking why they couldnât be captured alive, like Sammyâs awful brood..
Soldiers responded with machine gun fire and launched an anti-tank rocket at the building. A huge explosion followed, bringing down most of the building. One of Hamas fugitives was buried under the rubble, said Eizencot. before 5PM on the same day? How islamic!
Israeli troops later blew up the remainder of the building. The lab had contained dozens of kilograms of explosives.
Nightly security forces operate in the West Bank to thwart terror attacks. "Since the truce was declared on June 29, security forces have thwarted scores of attacks especially in the Nablus area," he said. Despite a decrease in the number of terror threats in recent weeks, "a little luck and the intense operations by IDF forces," have foiled numerous attacks he said. "We are committed to protecting and safeguarding the citizens of Israel, IDF forces operate throughout the West Bank except in Bethlehem. We will continue such operations until we see effective actions carried out by the PA to combat terror," he said.
They'll be wearing overcoats in hell when that happens, of course...
Sheik Ismael Abu Shanab, a senior Hamas official in Gaza said Friday that Abu Salemâs death was a flagrant violation of the hudna and the crossing of a "red line" from Hamasâ point of view. "This shows that the enemy has no real intention to respect the ceasefire. Hamas will not remain silent over the Israeli aggression against its activists," said Shanab. Shanab needs a red laser dot on his forehead
Brig.Gen. Eizencot denied Hamasâ claim that the operation against its bomb makers in Nablus was a violation of the ceasefire, saying that both fugitives were involved in planning attacks against Israelis, preparing and instructing suicide bombers, and that the building they were found in was an explosives laboratory. "At 4:40 in the morning shots were fired at the soldiers from at least two different weapons from the third floor of the building where the two Hamas fugitives were believed to be." It was in that first burst of gunfire Oren was killed. The explosion that occurred after soldiers returned fire came from a bomb factory located on the third floor where the fugitives were preparing bombs to be used in attacks against Israelis. The blast caused the third floor and the roof of the second floor to collapse. Local Palestinian families who lived in the building on the first and second floor under the bomb factory were evacuated by IDF forces after the explosion occurred. The security forces then completed demolishing the building that remained partially standing after the explosion he said. At least one of the two Hamas fugitives is believed to have died from the blast and the other was buried in the rubble after the explosion caused the building to cave in. Eizencot said Hamis Abu Salem had been involved in planning attacks against Israeli citizens. Soldiers found two rifles that were used by the terrorists to shoot at soldiers and a gun. Since the truce went into effect at the end of June there has been 41 shooting and bomb attacks directed at Israelis traveling on the roads in the West Bank as well as at Israeli communities in the region he said. In addition there were 29 attacks that were perpetrated in Area A under sole Palestinian control. Letâs see...41 + 29 > 0 isnât it?
In that period IDF forces have launched 115 operations to arrest Palestinian terrorists in areas under Israeli security control (Area B) and 80 in areas under sole Palestinian control (Area A) due to the PAâs failure to crack down on the terrorists operating, confiscate weapons and destroy the terror infrastructure he said. At least ten of the terrorists arrested planned to perpetrate suicide bomb attacks. Responding to todayâs early morning IDF raid which destroyed a Hamas explosives production facility, Dore Gold, a spokesperson for the Prime Ministerâs office, accused the PA of ignoring the US sponsored Road Map peace plan by not acting against terrorism. "According to the road map, it is the Palestinian Authority who is directly responsible for the immediate dismantling of terrorist organizations and their infrastructure," Gold, a former Ambassador to the UN, told The Jerusalem Post. "Unfortunately the Palestinians have not even begun to implement their road map obligation and there fore it is incumbent upon Israel to take every measure necessary to defend itâs civilian population." also today - Check out Charles Krauthammersâ excellent op-ed in Wash Post re: the barrier wall
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/08/2003 11:59:14 AM ||
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#1
Read Krauthammer and weep, folks. Could it be rumors of Powell leaving State is because he's having trouble changing its culture as much as any ideological problems with W and DOD re Iraq/WOT? I mentioned earlier a Wash. Times article from a couple of months ago on DOState wusses with deragatory (SP?) caricatures of W. As much as I wonder about Newt's criticism of State (maybe he should stick to domestic stuff), you can't get away from the fact that State is spineless. What the hell, even Dennis Ross knows it. Was he able to express these opinions when he was a State employee?
Posted by: Michael ||
08/08/2003 12:28 Comments ||
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#2
Michael - I was shocked! Shocked! I tell you, when I read about the Dubya caricatures at State... /sarcasm.
I think you and Frank G are spot-on with your comments. You can add the prisoner release demands to Krauthammer's observation that the fence isn't in the road map. None of the Pal crap is - nor was it true of Oslo or Camp David (I, II, III, etc) or any other good-faith attempt to save these shitheads from themselves when they decided to force a restart. Uh oh, I feel a rant a'coming...
It's all obfuscation and diversion from the fact that they never do anything, not one fucking thing, of what they agree to - as I've pointed out numerous times in the past in comments. This is the Arab game. Pressure, twist the truth, distract, wheedle, lie, cheat, murder - whatever it takes to gain concessions - all without moving toward fulfilling any of their own obligations. They could not achieve this without our mindless Pal Symp World Press, which lives in their pocket - for reasons beyond my ken. Then, when they gain some concessions - given in gestures of good will - they want to restart negoations all over, except this time, it's with your fresh concessions in their stack of chips - and you gained zilch for having offered them. They force a restart (can you say intefada?)... Repeat until the other side tires and quits - sues for peace. Then they usually attack. I have nothing good to say about Arabs, nothing, nor the source of their guiding "principals", Islam, nor their incredibly corrupt society. Everyone here, in their heart of hearts, knows that it won't end, ever, until either they or the Jews are gone. Utterly. Take that exactly as written. Up close and personal, they're even worse than they seem from afar.
Our State Dept, INS, Education Dept, and other Govt bureaucracies, our Unversities, our myriad taxpayer-funded education oversight bodies, all of the places where Arab and Pal and Islamic sympathizers hide and use our taxes and their positions of influence against us must, eventually, be burned out. Gutted. Just like the West Bank and Gaza - and Riyadh and Cairo and Teheran and Damascus and Jakarta and Kuala Lumpur and... WW-IV. Just a thought, I don't have any strong opinions on the issue. ;->
#4
LH - Grins. I really feel like moving to Israel, y'know what I mean? Sitting here on my hands in Thailand amongst the friendliest people on the planet, snarfing great food, chasing some amazingly beautiful wymyns (who let you catch them), surfing the net - it's all just so wearing, y'know? In Israel, I could prolly get my own AR-50 (http://armalite.opencom.net/sales/catalog/rifles/ar50.htm) or something and pick critters off The Fence. Varmint hunting. Sigh - so many choices... ;->
#5
Well put, dot.com. Enough is enough--it's extremely clear who the good guys are in this situation, and why anyone and any organization tries to pretend that that its any other way is beyond me.
Edited for brevity.
A blue-and-white blimp floated a thousand feet above farms and fields, its sophisticated sensors scanning the ground, on the hunt for a mock terrorist camp. Long associated with providing television shots at football games and selling tires, blimps could play a key role in homeland security, say military researchers, who envision dirigibles hovering over Washington, protecting the region. During last fallâs sniper crisis, in fact, the military tried to deploy a blimp with sensors capable of spotting a flash from a firearmâs muzzle. This week, during a demonstration of blimps armed with cutting-edge sensor technology, a 260-foot airship drifted over the woods near Manassas, where a set of blue tarps was strung across the ground to represent a terrorist encampment. Great--weâve got the Smurf terrorist threat covered at least...
The color-sensitive sensors aboard the blimp easily detected the tarps despite a thick canopy of trees. The location was outlined in red on a monitor. Inside a gray turret attached to the gondolaâs outer frame, a high-resolution camera turned its lens toward the terrain in question, verifying the find. The Office of Naval Research, based in Arlington, is advocating the use of sensor-equipped airships for various missions, including detecting chemical attacks, tracking submarines or other underwater threats, identifying military targets for attack, aiding in search-and-rescue operations and finding drug laboratories. Airplanes must keep circling to stay atop a target area, and hovering in a helicopter is a bone-shaking, fuel-consuming ordeal. Blimps can loiter with little noise and vibration -- conditions ideal for sensors -- and cost much less to operate than planes and helicopters. The demonstration featured the Littoral Airborne Sensor Hyperspectral (LASH) system, a sensor that detects minute color shifts that the human eye cannot see. This year, a LASH-equipped blimp was able to track 30 North Atlantic right whales off the northeast coast of Florida, providing scientists with valuable data about the highly endangered species, said Gregory Plumb, airship operations manager for Science & Technology International, the Honolulu company that developed the system. Last October, Navy teams outfitted a blimp with a sniper-detection system known as VIPER to help find the shooters terrorizing the Washington area.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/08/2003 9:53:33 AM ||
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Trust me. You don't want cutting edge technology of anykind on a blimp.
#2
News flash - Tom Ridge dictates that all Al-Qaeda must wear blue uniforms....
These blimps are useful looking over long stretches of unpopulated areas(i.e. Mexican Border) for movement, drug shipments, etc. but less useful at discriminating among multiple contacts
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/08/2003 11:00 Comments ||
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The blimp can spot a UN peacekeeper at 10,000 metres!
#4
Real-life, eyewitness experience with "cutting edge" sensors looking through foliage. AC-130 ground controller says to us "tell me where one of your patrols is, I'll have the crew find it with the IR sensors." I give him a grid. "Um, we can't find them." I get on the radio and tell them to crack an infrared chem light. "Um, we still don't see them." I get on the radio, "are you sure of that grid?" "Roger," they reply. I tell them to try a red lens flashlight. "Um, no. Still don't see them." Finally in frustration, I tell them to use a white lens flashlight (major break in tactical concealment). "Yeah, we got them now." That's how much I trust high tech sensors through foliage.
#7
Actually Herr Rove has cut a deal with Goodyear for a Hastert blimp--it holds much more gas--provided by Enron--oops that would prolly crash--they didn't have any! Just the gas from their GOP congressmen they bought and paid for! Enjoying your stratospheric electric bills Californians? You can thank Kenny Boy & GW for that!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
08/08/2003 23:00 Comments ||
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Hat Tip: The Marmotâs Hole: http://marmot.blog-city.com/ Using the military is an option. Hereâs how it can be done. If China wonât step up to the plate...
BY R. JAMES WOOLSEY AND THOMAS G. MCINERNEY
Monday, August 4, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT Mr. Woolsey was CIA director from 1993-95. Gen. McInerney, a retired three-star Air Force lieutenant general and former assistant vice chief of staff, is a Fox News military analyst.
The White House had a shape-of-the-table announcement last week: North Korea would participate in six-sided talks with the U.S., China, Russia, South Korea and Japan. This was welcome but it changes nothing fundamental. Kim Jong Il has clearly demonstrated his capacity for falsehood in multilateral as well as bilateral forums. The bigger, and much worse, news is the overall course of events this summer. Heâs not just a liar, heâs an industrious little shit...
In early July, krypton 85 was detected in locations that suggested that this gas, produced when spent nuclear fuel is reprocessed into plutonium for nuclear weapons, may have emanated from a site other than North Koreaâs known reprocessing facility at Yongbyon. Surprise, surprise....
There would be nothing surprising about a hidden reprocessing plant--North Korea has thousands of underground facilities. But if the reprocessing of the 8,000 spent fuel rods that the North Koreans took out of storage at Yongbyon last January--when it ousted international inspectors and walked away from the Non-Proliferation Treaty--has been completed clandestinely, then Kim Jong Il may already have enough material for several more weapons to go with the one or two he is thought to have from previous reprocessing. This is the real deal: a recommendation for a pre-emptive strike from two knowledgable and experienced hands. Read the rest to get their logic on the military option.
Posted by: ·com ||
08/08/2003 6:07:02 AM ||
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We need to take out Frankenkimmie's lab before his monster is completed.
#2
It is my understanding that the Navy won't be ready until December due to refits and rearms after Iraq. Also it would be nice if South Kor would lend a hand istead of spitting on us.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
08/08/2003 7:56 Comments ||
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#3
Do we have enough forces available to protect Seoul, hit Nork artillery at the DMZ, hit DongWang, and go after Kimmypoo at the same time, and do this all effectively, while getting a ground invasion rolling within 24-48 hours?
I'm not convinced that the Soks can gives us all we need.
Sure would be nice if Japan could help.
Or, maybe not, since that opens a big can of worms with China.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/08/2003 9:57 Comments ||
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I wonder how our stockpiles of "smart" weapons are? Same for T-hawks??
Posted by: Yosemtie Sam ||
08/08/2003 10:11 Comments ||
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#5
This is just part of the poker game. (a) China does not want the US to go in, if that happens South Korea will inherit the North and the unified Korea will be a close US ally. (b) China also doesn't want a nuclear armed North Korea because then everyone in the area goes nuclear. (c) China doesn't want North Korea to collapse because then a ton of refugees pour over the border and South Korea may inherit North Korea.
China will have to move soon to avoid these options, China will have to either invade, or arrange a coup in North Korea (by cutting oil and food shipments for starters).They don't want to do it but its the least worst option for them.
#6
Protect Seoul from invasion- Yes. The SK Army and Air Force would be doing the protecting, and I doubt the NK army can puch through the minefields and the tank/cluster bomb kill zones no matter how much artillery they've got.
Hit NK artillery at the DMZ - Yes, but not before the 240mm MLRS have sent a few salvos over into downtown Seoul, likely with nerve gas. Seoul should be evacuated before anything else is done.
Fat chance I think.
Go after Kimmy ? No. There is no way every hole in NK can be found, much less bombed.
Ground invasion in 24-48 hours ?- No. It will take probably two-three months at least to mobilize the SK's 20 plus divisions (who did you think will be doing most of the invading?), and the same time to ship over 2 Marine and 2-3 Army divisions.
#7
Buwaya, I didn't mean a ground invasion within 24-48 hours from now, I meant from the time the bombing started.
Also, my question about going after Kimmy at the same time, was meant more as the ability to go after targets of opportunity, not just "get Kimmy".
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/08/2003 12:01 Comments ||
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Good discussion. Woolsey and the General bring up a topic re a strategy that has to be analyzed.
Why do you think Kimmie wants us to agree not to invade in exchange for his cooperation? Cause he'd go down. Remember, Kruschev extracted a promise from JFK for the US to take the invasion option off the table re Cuba. I leave it to you military guys to talk about the feasability of invading NK, but I think, under no circumstances, should we promise not to attack NK.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/08/2003 12:14 Comments ||
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#9
I think it would take a month or two to move in Air Force assets up to the limit of available airfields in South Korea, Japan, Guam and Okinawa. These forces are readily available I believe.
Between the South Koreans and US forces currently in South Korea and Japan there should be more than enough to maintain air superiority over the Koreas and defeat a NK ground invasion, but not enough to get NK air defenses down to this years Iraqi levels immediately.
#10
I don't see why the US should not make such a promise on condition of good behavior by NK. The US does not intend to invade anyway unless the NK's present an immediate danger, and the SK's and Japan wouldn't agree to an invasion except in a dire situation.
So such a promise is no handicap to an invasion if it becomes necessary and feasible.
#11
Don't the NorK forces have the same huge liability of most 2nd and 3rd tier armies: not trained to think for themselves or adapt - and they never know the big picture? Headless, they are almost useless - as Ridgeway exploited during the Korean War: they took the objective and then - nothing, didn't know where to go or what to do next. Decapitation may be the heart of the unspoken part of the plan. Just speculating on this aspect.
BUT. Bank on this: Woolsey is one tough and smart cookie - he's certainly not a fool and wouldn't buy into a dumb gambit. It may be imperfect, as war plans always are, or it may be a forced situation due to time, but I figure it must be imminently doable for him to not just sign on but advocate and put his name on the story.
#12
I don't think actually defeating the NK army is such a big problem. It would be mainly a job for the SK's anyway.
The real problem is that this is more like a hostage situation. The bad guys are no match for the SWAT team but they are perfectly capable of killing a lot of civilians - both the population of Seoul currently and those of whatever cities in SK, Japan or the US they manage to use nuclear weapons on.
#13
buwaya / others - A few observations... Since the NorK nuclear efforts were allowed to chug along under the covers of willful blindness by the US (Clinton's Appeasement) and IAEA - and with help from numerous unfriendly sources... we now find ourselves facing a number of onerous choices...
1) I've heard it stated several times by military types that Seoul is doomed in any shooting war, no matter what the level of the conflict - because the NorKs can and would do it just to punish SKor as their dying gesture.
2) If the NorKs aren't stopped somehow, they will hold SKor hostage and extort them, and by extention the US, in perpetuity.
3) If the NorKs aren't stopped SOON, they will peddle the nukes and missiles to other locales - and then we have this nightmare happening all over again - in multiple places. A vision of the future anyway, I think.
Don't we have to face up to Seoul's devastation and end this nightmare before it spreads?
I know that, from everything I've read, only China is postioned such that this can be ended peacefully. Even if they can be motivated to do it and do put the pressure on, it doesn't automatically mean the NorKs will cooperate if they see no future for their Dear Leader in his comfort zone, so he may even buck them, too.
This looks like a lose-lose-lose-lose set of options - and only by using force in the very near-term, and taking the losses, is there any chance of resolution.
#14
.com - You are completely correct. There are no good options. Unfortunately this situation cannot be resolved until SK, China and Japan are sufficiently frightened to act. The US cannot act unilaterally in the area - we variously need enthusiastic cooperation or aquiescense from all these people. I suppose that means we all have to wait and give the NK's the rope to hang themselves, and take the risk of a disaster. For the US, waiting without giving up anything substantial is probably the only available policy.
#15
buwaya - as was reported here a few days ago, apparently the Russians have some sort of plan developed - a pre-emptive nuke attack. I think this is the only thing I've seen that, should force be required, doesn't put the onus on the US - and will leave the US as the bad guy. We all know how revisionist history works in the PC world.
I think Japan is right there with us - the NorKs shooting their little missile over Japan was, actually, incredibly stupid on their part as it guaranteed that Japan would be party to any action or talks that might occur.
The SorKs, well, they're just fucked. Self-delusional youth and the generation that "gets it" is not only dying off, it's also being ignored completely by the fat little college shits and the SorK press. So SorK will always oppose any action other than tool/fool ideas.
China? What a morass of medieval piss they peddle as foreign policy. ZF has their number, methinks, as well as others. I, for one, see them as the real long-term threat - unless they have a real revolution sometime before push comes to shove. They need us even more than we need them - for a ton of reasons elaborated in numerous comments posted here on Rantburg. But are they with us in acting if the NorKs don't respond, assuming they apply the pressure? I don't know, do you?
Russia suffers from Putinism - pop-idol cult worship mixed with Al Caponski or Tamanisky Hall - what a mess. Are they with us? What day is it? I doubt them more than any of the others due to their schizophrenia and Putin's foolish management.
#16
Would it be that bad if we lost Seoul? I mean, let's be realistic here -- the destruction, nay, decapitation of the South Korean leadership might favor America's interests in the region. A few people might die...and their industrial base would be set back a decade, but the new orders for United Technologies and Caterpillar couldn't come at a better time in the macroeconomic cycle.
It would also be the facilitator to the permanent removal of the North Korean government and the unification of the Koreas. All this makes the assumption that 2ID is no longer in Seoul, of course.
Posted by: Brian ||
08/08/2003 17:46 Comments ||
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#17
It wouldn't be just a few people unless SK somehow managed to evacuate Seoul first. They will lose tens of thousands, possibly 100,000 depending on what happens. I would not wish for that.
The SK leadership is most unlikely to die, or at least not many of them.
The SK industrial base probably wouldn't be damaged that much. The actual tonnage the NK's can fire won't be that great.
The 2nd ID, unlike the civilians of Seoul, has bunkers and armored vehicles and chemical warfare suits. I don't think they will suffer that many casualties.
#18
"Would it be that bad if we lost Seoul? I mean, let's be realistic here -- the destruction, nay, decapitation of the South Korean leadership might favor America's interests in the region. "
Gee, I don't know, would it be that bad if America lost New York? I mean the complete eniolation of that hotbed of liberal thought might favour America's interests in the long run.
Never mind the people killed, let's just be realistic here.
Better yet destroy Washington. Fewer people there, and a more effective "decapitation" of a democratic regime. No need for annoying elections anymore that might no lead the desired outcomes, I'm sure that a West-friendly general can fill in the position of head of government.
Seoul isn't your own personal toy to have a right to lose, Brian!
#19
Ultimately, any military option on our part must escalate to full regime change againts Kim Jong Il. Look at the best case: we lauch air and missile strikes on PDRK nuclear and missile facilities and KNOW with certainty that we destroyed them. What then? Does PDRK just take it? No. Knowing we are several months from deploying enough ground power, they level Seoul. As they start to level Seoul, ROK government is under tremendous pressure to launch frontal attacks on entrenched PDRK troops north of Seoul in an effort to shove PDRK lines back out of artillery range. Will ROK army break in this desperate frontal attack?
I don't know how we get out of this, but there are no clean military options. Let's get real here. Regime change is only way and if we go military route, it won't be cheap.
As for offering guarantee that we won't attack, why would PDRK believe us anyway? We've tolerated their psycho regime for 50 years yet they still think we are poised and ready to strike at any moment! They would not believe our promise. By their screwy logic, they might even think we were on the verge of invading since we promised not to. As a general policy, I think we should never guarantee the safety of our enemies. It's tough enough to get the anti-war professional protesters to agree to defend our allies--figures they'd go for protecting our enemies...
#20
For the US, waiting without giving up anything substantial is probably the only available policy.
In the meatime, I hope the DoD and Boeing is proceeding along at or ahead of schedule with the Airborne Laser project. If that contraption was working now, there would be no need to worry about an attack on the U.S. mainland, and U.S. naval forces could begin interdicting NK shipments of exported missile/nuclear material, their likely shipment route being via sea.
The Pentagonâs top lawyer will fly to London soon for the next round of negotiations over treatment of British citizens facing terrorism trials before military tribunals. British Attorney General Lord Goldsmith has twice visited Washington on the subject since mid-July, winning agreement that two Britons wonât be subject to the death penalty, will be allowed a British consultant on their defense teams and that their conversations with their lawyers will not be monitored - exceptions to tribunal rules the Pentagon has written for goobers suspects captured in the global war on terrorism. The Defense Departmentâs general counsel, William J. Haynes, will take a small Pentagon team to London soon to continue the talks, though a date has not been set, a defense official said Thursday. Similar agreements have been reached and talks also are pending with Australia, which has one suspect facing possible charges before the newly created tribunals. The Britons and Australian are among the more than 660 al-Qaida and Taliban suspects at the military prison at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Though no charges have been filed, President Bush has named six of the prisoners as candidates for the first tribunals. The Defense Department has not publicly identified the three other suspects, nor said what country they are from. The other countries apparently have not asked for negotiations and may be waiting to see how talks with the British and Australians turn out, a defenses official said Thursday. Wonder why they havenât asked? Maybe the Bank of Goodwill is closed in Washington?
Lawyers and human rights groups say they believe the concessions given the two allies could set a precedent for other prisoners. Brits and Aussies are our pals, and weâre doing them a favor. Thatâs all.
But the Pentagon says the talks cover only the three individuals and follow a review of the evidence in each of their cases, in which prosecutors would not have sought the death penalty anyway, and would not have recommended monitoring of their conversations anyway.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/08/2003 12:43:08 AM ||
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I'm English and am not happy about this. They're in a terrorist organisation and they took their chances. They got caught, they'll get tried and if found guilty, they should be shot. I don't even think the families should get the bodies back.
Posted by: Tony ||
08/08/2003 2:59 Comments ||
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Agreed, Tony, I'm Australian and I'm not happy about it either. I don't want them removed further from military justice. I want them tried in the military court, fairly as per US tradition, and if found guilty, (after their appeals process etc) I want them executed and not returned so that my taxes can keep them breathing for 10 years until our lax legal system lets them free.
#3
Tony and Anon1, How dare you say that U.S. courts are 'fair'! Don't you know that they pick up people off the streets at random and railroad them into prison or death chambers? If this was an American caught by UK forces, I see no problem with you putting his sorry arse against the wall and firing. thanks for your support.
Covered yesterday, but what the heck?
The Navy bid farewell Thursday to the USS Constellation, the aircraft carrier that President Reagan dubbed Americaâs Flagship, in a solemn ceremony at the Navy base that has been the shipâs home for most of its nearly 42 years of service. Some of the 60,000 sailors and officers who served on the Constellation over the years gathered in the shipâs massive shadow at Naval Air Station North Island to witness the decommissioning. "Today is a day to be proud," said Capt. John W. Miller, the last of the Constellationâs 30 commanding officers. A Navy band played, the shipâs bell tolled and two 40mm cannons boomed out a 19-gun farewell salute. Three F/A-18s that had flown night operations from the Constellation in Iraq roared overhead in formation. Following Navy tradition, the shipâs executive officer, Cmdr. Dave Maloney, ordered all sailors off the ship. The shipâs colors and the commissioning pennant that flew over the flight deck were lowered. Miller then signed the final entry in the shipâs log: "7 August, 2003. USS Constellation CV64 decommissioned and deck log closed." The carrier returned from its 21st and final voyage in June after taking part in the war with Iraq. It will head next month to a ship graveyard in Bremerton, Wash. The $4.6 billion USS Ronald Reagan, the Navyâs newest nuclear-powered carrier, is expected to take the place of the steam-fired Constellation in Coronado next year. The number of carriers in the Navyâs fleet will remain unchanged at 12. Good ship and people. Thanks guys.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/08/2003 12:38:29 AM ||
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#1
I would like to see them give Connie to the Japanese.Don't ya know that twist a knot in the Norks panties.
It'd be purely symbolic, Raptor: Japan itself is an unsinkable carrier in that region, given the current range of fighter/bombers. Probably reduce reaction/detection time a bit, but a carrier needs a huge support force for protection.
#4
I would like to see them give Connie to the Japanese.
I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand:
The Japanese are probably our closest allies in the Far East, but they're nowhere near as reliable as the UK or our major European allies. Do we really want them to reconstitute something the size of the Imperial Japanese Navy? What if they do a U-turn and decide the Chinese are their new best friends?
Another problem is that if the Japanese build up, we'll have an excuse to build down, which politicians will swiftly fasten on in order to divert money to more welfare boondoggles (Earned Income Credit, anyone?). What happens if push comes to shove in the Far East, and the Japanese decide to stay out of it? We'll be stuck doing the heavy lifting with even less forces than we have today.
On the other hand:
We would benefit from having a close ally with force projection capabilities in the Far East. Perhaps it's time the Japanese relearned the art of putting together carrier task forces. The new so-called destroyer / carrier hybrids they're deploying are a joke. 13,000 tons in this day and age, when their largest carrier during WWII was 70,000 tons. These new pint-sized boats may be fine for attacking isolated outposts, but as strike forces against anything else, they're a threat only to themselves.
#6
Why would the Japanese want a large fleet carrier? For conventional warfare involving the Sea of Japan, Korea, etc land based aircraft operating from Japan would be enough, no? Main reason for Japan to project naval power would be to deal with threats to sea routes in and near Indonesia, from terrorist-pirate threats, or possible failure of Indonesian state. For that small ships would probably be preferable, no?
#7
Why would the Japanese want a large fleet carrier?
In a word, China. China views the entire South China Sea as Chinese territorial waters, i.e. as a Chinese lake. It has taken steps to enforce its claim by building military installations atop various island atolls it has seized from Vietnam and the Philippines, thousands of miles from the Chinese mainland. We've taken a blase view of these developments - I suspect the Japanese are not as sanguine - these Chinese moves are taking place right on their doorstep.
#8
Better yet, give her to the Brits! They'd love her, take care of her, and the Phrench Phrogs would shit themselves. ^_^
Ed Becerra
Posted by: Ed Becerra ||
08/08/2003 12:27 Comments ||
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ZF--I agree. Another reason for wanting that carrier is flexibility. Even if Japan is an unsinkable aircraft carrier, it's immobile and the airborne threat is one-dimensional. A carrier allows them to pose a threat from another, unexpected direction, which the Chinese will have to compensate for.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/08/2003 12:30 Comments ||
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#10
So are you saying that a naval war between China and Japan, without US involvement, is in the cards within the next, say, 20 years? Cause if there is US involvement than the logical division of labor is US focus on the open seas, and Japanese focus on the Sea of Japan and Korea. And if the focus is longer than 20 years, than buying the Connie, or building a new carrier now doesnt make much sense (except perhaps as macroeconomic stimulus)
That would be a great idea, except that the Brits barely have enough dough in their budget to support their existing force structure, let alone a new carrier task force. Blair's been a stalwart friend, but his defense budgets have significantly reduced Britain's military capabilities.
Let's face it - what the Brits are doing is at least short-term rational - the Warsaw Pact is no more, and Uncle Sam is picking up the slack. No real threats in any direction except maybe a long-term one from the Middle East and/or North Africa.
Japan is a completely different story. Most of the countries in the Far East irrationally hate them for something that happened 60 years ago.* They have no real militarily-significant allies except Australia and the US, both of which, ironically, were their primary military opponents in WWII. And both countries are far away. Russia, North Korea, China and South Korea are all potential threats.
As a result, the Japanese have real motivation to rearm, which has also freed up prior budgetary constraints on increased defense spending. Among all of our allies, Japan alone is motivated enough to make the investment in a carrier task force. I doubt we'll hand the Constellation to the Japanese, but it might actually be a good idea, unless we have other uses for it, such as putting it in mothballs just in case we need a replacement in a hurry.
* Some are irrationally egging on the Chinese military expansion despite its record of having attacked almost every single one of its neighbors over some territorial dispute or other. This is a shining example of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The only thing that sticks out in their minds is the short-lived Japanese campaign of territorial conquest starting in the late 19th century.
They forget that China has a record of imperial expansion lasting thousands of years - stopping only when they were defeated. This is why China occupies almost all of the Far East. It took the Japanese conquest of Korea and Taiwan, combined with Western moves on Indochina and Burma and Russian advances in Siberia and Mongolia, to stop the relentless advance of Chinese empire. This is acknowledged, albeit in a self-serving manner, in Chinese textbooks - the Western powers and Japan are alleged to have "stolen" these territories from China.
#12
zhang on western textbooks - well in western histories (including Fairbanks) China hardly looks like its in conquering mode from 1850 - 1911 mainly it looks like its falling apart. Not surprised Chinese textbooks portray it differently :)
#13
in the context of a US withdrawl from the "first line of islands" every asian power would have to re-evaluate its position. In that context, anti-Japanese sentiment would be a luxury few could afford. India and Viet Nam would certainly quickly ally with Japan, to form an Indian-VN-Australian-Japanese alliance. ASEAN states would have to start moving in that direction, if China moved to fill the vacuum.
OTOH your point about needing to slowly build up competence in a new area is good - especially one as difficult as naval aviation and carrier battle group management and maintenance.
#14
"It has taken steps to enforce its claim by building military installations atop various island atolls it has seized from Vietnam and the Philippines, thousands of miles from the Chinese mainland."
IE the spratleys - according to CIA factbook and other sources, all the claimants, including Viet Nam and the Phillipines, have occupied at least some of those islands. Last use of force by China in this regard was against Viet Nam in 1988. In November of last year (2002) China reached agreement with ASEAN to freeze status quo. Motive seems to be oil and gas in vicinity of the Spratleys themselves, more than grand strategic expansion.
#16
well in western histories (including Fairbanks) China hardly looks like its in conquering mode from 1850 - 1911 mainly it looks like its falling apart. Not surprised Chinese textbooks portray it differently
Fairbank's account parrots the Chinese view that China is a peaceful country, and that is the way Chinese narratives of their own history run. (His contemporaries urged the abandonment of China to Mao Zedong, so that may give you an idea as to whether he's gone native). But if you look at what the Chinese do instead of what they say, a pattern of military expansion, followed by waves of Chinese colonists, is the rule rather than the exception.
Re the 19th century reference - just prior to that period of weakness*, they conquered what is now 50% of China's present territory, doubling the size of the Chinese empire (Tibet, East Turkistan and Mongolia). China considered all of its neighbors vassal states in the manner that a king might have feudal lords professing fealty to him. In the traditional Chinese view, the Son of Heaven (tian zi) ruled all under heaven (tian xia). Some of these millennia-old assumptions have carried over into current Chinese views of what China's boundaries should be. And what is taught in Chinese (and Taiwanese) textbooks continues to be that most or all of East Asia was Chinese territory.
* Like I said, Chinese ambitions have never dimmed, just Chinese capabilities, for just over 150 years.
1. 1750 to 1840 - china continued to expand
2. 1840 to 1880 - China descends towards chaos (opium wars, religious civil war, decline in central authority)
3. 1880 to 1911 - territorial changes - russian annexations, expansion of French Indochina, brit annexation of Burma, Japanese expansion in korea and taiwan, creation of European spheres of influence. The carve up of China was NOT a response to Chinese expansionism, but to Chinese weakness - if it was jsutified by anything other than imperialist greed, it was the legitimate fear of each power that the others would move ahead without it. For which reason Britain and the US pushed an open door policy to STOP the carve up. The ultimate challenge to that open door policy was by Japan, which resulted in the Pacific side of WW2. Now Japanese may see their aggression as pre-emptive - to stop a united, industrialized China from emerging. However they could alternatively have used balance of power diplomacy - alliances with the US, UK, Russia to protect themselves. More likely they went in for markets and resources. And China's view of the world is inevitably colored by that Japanese action.
This "inevitable" chinese expansion sounds much like 19thc British belief in a secret Russian scheme for world conquest. It also seems potentially a self-fulfilling prophecy. Im not saying that we shouldnt be in a position to contain China if necessary (US withdrawl from the first line of islands would probably be disastrous) but that policies that assume China is a future aggressor and that unecessarily provoke China should be avoided as well.
BTW, that period of expansion was relatively short-lived, and followed a period conservative isolationism under the late Ming.
#20
The carve up of China was NOT a response to Chinese expansionism, but to Chinese weakness - if it was jsutified by anything other than imperialist greed, it was the legitimate fear of each power that the others would move ahead without it.
I've never stated that the Western powers or Japan moved into East Asia as part of a mission to counter Chinese expansionism. Rather, what I'm saying is that Chinese imperial expansion stopped only because it ran up against an irresistible force - Western imperial expansion. Western ambition (for some reason liberalhawk calls this greed, without similarly characterizing the Chinese equivalent thusly)* countered Chinese ambition, where previously Chinese ambition grew unchecked.
This "inevitable" chinese expansion sounds much like 19thc British belief in a secret Russian scheme for world conquest.
Nothing particularly secret about this - Russian empire was curbed only by military defeat and the threat of civil war. Poland is independent because Russia gave up some of its imperial holdings as the price of its unilateral withdrawal from WWI. The former Soviet Republics are free only because of the threat of devastating wars of independence - non-Russians and religious minorities outnumbered Russian Slavs. And unlike the Western powers, Russia has never returned any of the land it took from the Chinese empire in the 19th century. We returned Okinawa to Japan. Russia has held on to the Kuriles in the face of passionate Japanese objections.
that period of expansion was relatively short-lived, and followed a period conservative isolationism under the late Ming
The Ming dynasty was inept rather than peaceful - it launched numerous unsuccessful military expeditions into neighboring kingdoms, including Vietnam. Chinese boundaries did not grow during that period because the Ming dynasty was weak, not because it was peacefully-inclined.
#21
LH - of course, they would be able to get such a commitment from their population...
Can you picture it? Transiting the Suez... rounding the Straits of Hormuz - Bandar Abbas would scramble like their asses were on fire. Geez, it'd be under attack by someone from the instant it hoisted the flag.
SOG, you've got a mean mind - that is some serious outside the box thinking! It boggles - and appeals at the same time! What a hoot!
#22
ZF and LH: I think you are both right but I suspect that your arguments are missing something. I have intensively studied nations playing catch up to understand "what went wrong" in Japan and Germany in the period 1848 to 1945. I call my theory "the problem of the text books" (so named on my lunchtime walk half an hour ago).
There is a script to wrench a nation from feudalism into industrialism. The Japanese used it during the Meiji restoration. Bismark used it throughout his chancellorship. Stolypin tried to use it in Russia prior to his assasination but was hampered by the reactionary elements in Russian society.
* Strengthen the peasantry: Give them title. Let them invest. Offer forms of upward mobility through education, business, military, civil service opportunities.
* Use the capital accumulation to build industry, especially cartels (zaibatsu in pre-war Japan), infrastructure, and the military (solves any excess labor issues).
* Create a national myth: Rifle the history books for examples of teamwork, heroism, self sacrifice, work ethic. Predict a glorious future based on those examples.
* Promote literacy. Standardize texts, hire teachers, use education as a transmission belt (to borrow Lenin's phrase) to spread the national myth and indoctrinate the youth.
The last two bullets create the problem. People have worked hard, sacrificed, and built. Things are looking up. Wealth is being created but the distribution is poor due to over-reliance on cartels instead of entrepreneurs and over-investment in the military. It's now up to the government to keep its end of the bargain, the glorious future. This is precisely the dilemma that China faces right now. How to deliver on the promise. As ZF points out, the texts say the Chinese should go "reclaim" Taiwan, Central Asia, Burma, etc. If the Chinese ruling class says that the national myth they propagated was false, they lose all face and fear revolution. If they do what the national myth demands, then they ae forced into imperial adventures. Now logically, this is a false dilemma. But Japan and Germany also faced that dilemma and chose war. One hopes that the Chinese leadership will be more intelligent and learn from the past. My fear for the past five years is Zhang Fei's: That they won't learn and will tragically follow a false myth to its conclusion, fearful of their stakeholders and unable to discard their own grade school text books.
#23
zhang re: 19th c russia 0 theres a difference between holding onto Poland and expanding in the east (as ALL imperial powers were expanding in the 19thc) and a global plan for conquest. Many 19th c Brits in fact believed in a secret Russian plan for world conquest, starting with but not confined to India. As documented in "The Great Game" this was essentially a myth.
#24
ok, so the ming were incompetent, and you accept that china was collapsing from 1840 to 1911. So the entirety of this "millenium of Chinese expansion" is the period 1750 to 1840 or so, and the sum of the gains was tibet, east turkestan, and parts of mongolia. The chinese texts may believe in a millenium of expanision, but theyre wrong
#25
11A5S sums it up perfectly. On top of this, major Chinese expansion occurred even before the existing national myth was widely propagated. Today, all Chinese above some grade level subscribe to the myths taught in the textbooks, including all the personnel in the Chinese political and military establishment. This is why the next decades in the Far East could be extremely problematic depending on whether the Chinese assert what they believe to be their traditional territorial prerogatives.
Liberalhawk's tendency to view Western imperialism as original sin is typical of many liberals, but runs counter to the facts of history. The Western powers are actually Johnny-come-latelies to the practice of imperialism. Before the Western powers circled the globe and conquered all before them, local kingdoms had been fighting each other for millenia. The only difference between local and Western imperialists is that the locals were less successful, since we had the Maxim gun, and they had not.
The liberal conceit is that we should know better, almost as if the natives were children, unable to negotiate the complexities of a moral code. I'm unwilling to take that tack - I believe no one has a monopoly on virtue, including the people on the losing side during the period of Western expansion. If they could have done the same to us, they would have. They certainly had no qualms about lording it over the neighboring kingdoms they had defeated.*
* One extreme example: The Aztecs of modern-day Mexico, for example, routinely used defeated neighboring tribes for human sacrifices that involved removing beating hearts from their captives while they were still conscious. These hearts were then eaten. This is why many of the dominated tribes were so anxious to ally with the Spanish conquistadors to avenge the atrocities to which the Aztecs had subjected them.
#26
So the entirety of this "millenium of Chinese expansion" is the period 1750 to 1840 or so, and the sum of the gains was tibet, east turkestan, and parts of mongolia. The chinese texts may believe in a millenium of expanision, but theyre wrong
But that's the point - the Chinese texts don't view it as two milennia of expansion - for them it magically happened as China fought defensive wars against barbarian tribes*. But if you look at a map of China during the reign of the all-conquering First Emperor 2000 years ago, China's territorial extent was perhaps 15% of what it is today. I don't know what you would call the remainder of the territory amassed since then, but I call it imperial expansion. There were people of other ethnicities and languages living there, and the Chinese conquered them. In Romance of the Three Kingdoms (available on Amazon), a 12th century Chinese novel about the inter-state rivalries of the post-Han dynasty era, the author writes about Indian-fighting type engagements in what is now Hubei and Hunan (birthplace of Mao Zedong). Take it from me - imperialism isn't a Western invention - prior to the current age, whenever it's been more convenient to take something rather than produce it yourself, states have always gone for the first option.
The Russians also started small and conquered huge swaths of inhabited territory - at its start, the place was about the size of Sweden. They conquered Central Asia, Eastern Europe and much of what used to be Manchuria. Books like the Great Game share the traditional leftist pro-Russian/-Bolshevik bias of modern historians in interpreting history. The problem with their analysis is that it can easily be contradicted by simply looking at maps of different periods in Russian history. Russia has a smaller native Russian Slav population than Great Britain, but forms the largest country in the world, and has never given up a square inch of soil except when it was defeated militarily or when it faced the danger of civil war involving nukes. This was not the ever-expanding empire?
* At the end of the 18th century, the Western powers were viewed as just another bunch of barbarian tribes. Unfortunately for the Chinese, they turned out to be really strong barbarian tribes.
#28
The chinese texts may believe in a millenium of expanision, but theyre wrong
The difference between us and the Chinese is that we believe in national self-determination - they believe in empire, except to the Chinese, China's traditional boundaries are not those of an empire* - they view them as part and parcel of China proper. (Fairbank seems to succumb to the Chinese view of China not being an empire - which is why I think of him as having gone native). This is why the Chinese will never remove their grubby little fingers from Tibet, East Turkistan or South Mongolia. The Chinese view about China's territorial claims is sort of like Manifest Destiny without the guilt complex.**
* In the Chinese view - which is as usual, self-serving - empires are what greedy Westerners do. Liberalhawk seems to share their view.
** Sending prisoners to penal colonies in conquered lands is another longtime Chinese tradition that way predates Australia. For a 12th century account, read the Water Margin - a Chinese novel about banditry during the Song dynasty available in translation from Amazon.com. The novel is very sophisticated in these sense that the characters adhere strictly to the Chinese custom of saying one thing and doing another.
#29
Interesting discussion, but we're getting waaay off topic! There's an obvious recipient of the Connie none of you have thought about - the Philippines. Yeah, it'd be a bitch building a carrier support group, manning and equipping it, but it would give the Philippines the ability to rapidly project forces in any of its islands. It would also be capable of reducing the piracy that's rampant in that part of the Pacific basin. Of course, Australia and Indonesia would immediately opt for a carrier strike force, to "maintain the balance of power". That, too, may not be a bad thing. The one thing such a force requires is internal stability in the supporting nation. That, too, could be a big help in easing tensions in the area. Either that, or pushing things over the edge, and hope there are enough pieces left to start over again.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/08/2003 18:53 Comments ||
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#30
There's an obvious recipient of the Connie none of you have thought about - the Philippines.
Same problem as the UK - only worse - the budget won't cover it. If the UK can't afford to maintain an aircraft carrier the size of the Constellation, the Philippines definitely cannot. I don't think the Filipinos can even afford submarines. Heck, they can't even afford M-16's and night sights for their anti-guerrilla units - we had to donate hundreds of millions of dollars of this stuff just to get them going against Abu Sayyaf. Given the history we have with them (Bataan, Manila, etc.), it would be nice if we could just hand the Constellation over to them. But the only use they would have for it is as a theme park or as scrap metal.
#32
Give the Connie to Taiwan (THAT would really twist the Chinese' knickers!), or, if we don't want to kick the realationship with China too hard...Singapore. We already train with the Singaporese AF extensively, they have the money and and a skilled educated populace to operate her, and they would provide a strategic southern counterwight vs China that's been missing since we pulled out of Cam Rahn Bay and Subic.
#33
Give the Connie to Taiwan (THAT would really twist the Chinese' knickers!), or, if we don't want to kick the realationship with China too hard...Singapore.
Neither Taiwan nor Singapore has the budget for it. An aircraft carrier costs about $800m a year to operate (according to John Kasich (R-Kansas)). Besides, aircraft carriers are useful mainly as strike platforms for force projection missions in instances where land bases are not readily available or are out of range. I can't see Taiwan engaging in force projection - if it wants to attack China - it's only a hundred miles away - easily reachable by tactical aviation. Taiwan's main job is to defend itself, and its combat aviation is far better- and more cheaply-served by building a bunch of redundant airstrips that can't all be taken out at once.
Singapore could use a carrier to deter its local rivals, Malaysia and Indonesia, but the cost to the country would be prohibitive. The reason it chose to host the US Navy at Changi Naval Base was to provide this very deterrence. I can't see them wanting to lay out the $1.6b in annual expense that it would take to operate a Kitty Hawk class vessel and associated support ships.
Both Taiwan and Singapore are suspect as recipients of advanced US technology. Taiwan is suspect because they may decide in the future to throw in the towel, in which case our gizmos end up in Chinese hands. Singapore is ruled by ethnic Chinese who do not appear to view China as a threat. This means that they will probably give the Chinese a good look at anything we provide to them. Even if Singapore stayed neutral, the massive flow of new Chinese immigrants into the country means that some of them will join Singapore's armed forces and provide information on US equipment to China.
The foreign minister of so-called "Land of Somalia republic" said that the split district will not think of joining once again to Somalia because of the conflict among the warlords, the plight of the country which is situated in the African horn. Idna Aden Ismael explained in Addis Ababa that any person "who is not insane will not accept to join a state divided by conflicts and extremism."
Y'know, she does have a point there...
She added that the warlords in southern Somalia "are concerned with protecting their own personal interests by supporting terrorism and do not care to serve the interests of the people of Somalia." Idna made these statements upon her visit to Ethiopia within a delegation led by the President of the "Land of Somalia" Zaher Reyali Kaheen in order to discuss bilateral relations with the Ethiopian prime minister Meles Zenawi. Idna said that one of the most important topics to be discussed with the Ethiopian government in addition to establishing diplomatic relations between the two countries is "Barbara passage" which Ethiopia wants to use for imports and exports and the promotion of trade and economic relations and enhancing of security and customs on the border between the two countries. The so-called "Land of Somalia republic" got independent in 1991. It is not recognized by any country and a relatively stable area, where multilateral elections were held earlier this year, while other parts of Somalia were exposed to destruction at the hand of the warlords.
This might be referring to Puntland, which is de-facto independent, I think. Or it might be another little piece of Somalia that fell off.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:36 ||
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#1
Fred, try this link to the official web site to the "Republic of Somaliland." Looks different than Puntland (I think). Looks like the "Barbara passage" is around Berbera (10.5N 45E) on the Gulf of Aden. Ethiopia is to the south and the rest of crazy killer land Somalia is to the southeast. Puntland apparently is the part to the east that follows the Gulf to the Indian Ocean, from what I can get out of the CIA World FactBook 2002.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/08/2003 1:00 Comments ||
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#2
I forgot about Somaliland -- damn the translation from Arabic!
Posted by: Fred ||
08/08/2003 10:53 Comments ||
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#3
Puntland, in northeastern Somalia is dominated by the Darood clan who claim Somaliland as theirs because of the large Darood population there.
Puntland's leader, Col Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmad has threatened the eastern Somaliland regions of Sool and Sanaag. The two regions fall geographically within the borders of pre-independence British Somaliland, but most of the main clans inhabiting them are associated with Puntland. These are the Warsangeli and the Dhulbahante, which, along with Majerteen - the main clan in Puntland - form the Harti clan of the Darood.
Abdullahi Yusuf has said that Puntland does not consider Sool and Sanaag as part of Somaliland.
He believes that Sool and Sanaag are part and parcel of Puntland, and the people there do not consider themselves part of Somaliland.
Ethiopia has rejected calls by the breakaway republic of Somaliland for international recognition by insisting that the regionâs future lies within a united Somalia.(a fantasy)
The Ethiopians want to include Somaliland within the boundaries of Somalia.
However, the Somaliland regional government's statement said Somaliland's borders were those it inherited from the British, and "are recognised by the African Union and the UN".
In other words, we welcome any solution that will lessen the threat to Somaliland's independence. But hey, we're fine here. So, you guy's work it out. Okay?
And you don't have to put in the "A href" part of the link when you use the buttons.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/08/2003 12:34 Comments ||
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#6
Ok, so Who's on first... I Don't Know is on second... PUNTLAND. (snicker) Oh man, ya gotta love it. Oh well, the Bloods and the Crips have the same issues. But there's peace and gentle breezes in my Isles of Langerhans.
In the place of crack though, they have Khat, "a mild narcotic plant very popular among Somalis."
An eye-opening scene at the Khat drop-off point is described here: Flying in Mogadishu's daily fix,along with a narrative of a Khat flight: "I decided to go to the cabin and have a chat with the pilot.
To my bewilderment, he too was dozing off."
#8
fullwood - great story! I used to use a sig that went: Life is the search for endorphins...
I guess some of us are just wired that way. I'm damned happy that I'm not one of them! To quote a comedian I watched on Politically Incorrect some 7 yrs or so ago, in a discussion about all sorts of drugs and such - "I'm just glad I've reached the age where I can get that same feeling just by standing up too quickly."
U.S. investigators now believe that a hijacker in the cockpit aboard United Airlines Flight 93 instructed terrorist-pilot Ziad Jarrah to crash the jetliner into a Pennsylvania field because of a passenger uprising in the cabin. This theory, based on the governmentâs analysis of cockpit recordings, discounts the popular perception of insurgent passengers grappling with terrorists to seize the planeâs controls. This makes sense to me. Itâd be pretty hard to get into the cockpit with four hijackers in the way. Not that it couldnât be done but this seems more likely.
The governmentâs findings — laid out deep within the report on the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that was sent to Congress last month — aim to resolve one of the enduring mysteries of the deadliest terror attacks in U.S. history: What happened in the final minutes aboard Flight 93? The FBI strenuously maintains that its analysis does not diminish the heroism of passengers who — with the words "Letâs roll" — apparently rushed down the airlinerâs narrow aisle to try to overtake the hijackers. Damned right — otherwise this plane would have hit the White House.
President Bush and Attorney General John Ashcroft have regularly praised the courage of those aboard Flight 93, some of whom told family members by telephone they were planning to storm the cockpit. "While no one will ever know exactly what transpired in the final minutes of Flight 93, every shred of evidence indicates this plane crashed because of the heroic actions of the passengers," FBI spokeswoman Susan Whitson said Thursday. Thirty-three passengers, seven crew members and the four hijackers died. Four terrorists and forty heroes.
Citing transcripts of the still-secret cockpit recordings, FBI Director Robert Mueller told congressional investigators in a closed briefing last year that, minutes before Flight 93 hit the ground, one of the hijackers "advised Jarrah to crash the plane and end the passengersâ attempt to retake the airplane." Jarrah is thought to have been the terrorist-pilot because he was the only of the four hijackers aboard known to have a pilotâs license. The congressional report describes the hijackers wearing bandanas and carrying knives, and several passengers reported seeing the captain and co-pilot lying on the floor of the first-class section, presumably dead. Muellerâs description was disclosed in a brief passage far into the 858-page report to Congress. Previous statements by FBI and other government officials have been ambiguous about what occurred in the cockpit. The same cockpit recording was played privately in April 2002 for family members of victims aboard Flight 93, and the FBI also provided them with its best effort at producing an understandable transcript. Some family members indicated afterward they were led to believe that passengers used a food cart as a shield and successfully broke into the cockpit. Food cart? Clever! Iâm going to remember that one just in case.
"It is totally obvious listening to that flight recorder that they made it into the cockpit," said Deena Burnett, who lost her husband, Thomas E. Burnett Jr., on Flight 93. "You cannot listen to the tape and understand it any other way," Burnett said Thursday in a telephone interview. She declined to discuss specific things she heard on the tape because U.S. prosecutors have asked families not to describe the recording. She said she does remember hearing a hijacker telling Jarrah in Arabic to crash the plane deliberately, as Mueller described, and Jarrah refusing to crash it. Burnett also said U.S. authorities, including Assistant U.S. Attorney David Novak, told families explicitly in April 2002 that the recording indicates passengers actually made their way into the cockpit. The FBI has been loath to publicly put forward a contradictory theory out of sensitivity to the families and because of uncertainty about what happened. People who have heard the recording describe it as nearly indecipherable, containing static noises, cockpit alarms and wind interspersed with cries in English and Arabic. Near the end of the tape, sounds can be heard of breaking glass and crashing dishes — lending credence to the theory that passengers used the food cart to rush the jetlinerâs narrow aisle.
Or that they were throwing everything they could lay hands on at the bastards...
Separately, the data recorder showed the planeâs wings rocking violently as the jet flew too low and too fast for safe flight. Intelligence officials believe the likely target for Flight 93 was the White House, based on information from Abu Zubaydah, a senior al-Qaida terrorist leader in U.S. custody who is believed to have played a key role in organizing the Sept. 11 attacks. Prosecutors have sought a U.S. judgeâs permission to play recordings from Flight 93 during the terrorism trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the only defendant in a U.S. case prosecutors have directly tied to the attacks. Moussaoui is accused of conspiring with the hijackers. Oh yeah, play the tape, I donât think it will prejudice the jury any.
The government has said it can link Moussaoui to Jarrah, using a telephone number found on a business card recovered at the Shanksville, Pa., crash site. Prosecutors believe the card belonged to Jarrah and that Moussaoui had called the same number. Moussaoui has acknowledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida but says he was not involved in the attacks. Going to take a while, Zac, but youâre going to burn.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/08/2003 12:34:28 AM ||
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Those forty people names will be remembered with honour. They were not selected volunteers just ordinary people who in an incredible moment fought an anonymous battle, with cutlery for weapons, trying to take back the plane. By their actions they saved many lives.
#2
And remember that the seats that act as flotation devices make a dandy shield. The straps fit over one arm, leaving the other one free to jab a Bic pen, say, or use a can of hairspray. They'll never crash a plane I'm on until I'm good and dea.
#3
I'm sticking to the families's version of the tape until I can hear it for myself: "Expert witnesses" can talk obvious bullshit and get away with it. In one instance, an "expert witness" showed a video of a person in a "persistent vegetative state" VISIBLY reacting to questions and pinpricks, while stating blithely under oath that there was "no reaction"!
Even if the hijackers crashed the plane themselves, they did so because they realized that the damn Kaffirs were revolting and stood an excellent chance of retaking the plane: No virgins for them if that happened. The security measures in place AT THAT TIME were enough to more than equalize the fight.
#4
Chuck--good observation. As I keep hearing about al Qaida's work to develop everyday items to become weapons or conceal weapons and the TSA's bend on ensuring passengers are totally defenseless, I'd like to hear more about how passengers can improvise weapons onboard to help prevent hijackers from succeeding.
The TSA needs to realize that over 99.9999% of air passengers are not merely potential victims but also a resource to help fight terrorism. Why not enlist help from them as well? Offer potential guidelines on what to do in case of a hostage/hijack situation!
I think we've learned since 9/11, being a passive victim is no longer an option.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/08/2003 9:12 Comments ||
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#5
I don't think they got their virgins. They didn't fulfill their mission.
what to do in case of a hostage/hijack
No one can prepare for that. People will react differently no matter how well you train them. Better solution: Arm the pilots. Bulletproof cockpit doors. Use double doors to create a "man-trap". Strip search passengers. Open luggage. Interrogate. Profiling. Show up 6 hours in advance. Hell why not.
#6
Sharpen the edge of a credit card and you have a dandy improvised knife blade.A car key will due serious damage when jammed in an eye or raked down the side of a persons face.Sharpen the handle of a tooth brush and you have a short stileto.
#7
Sharpen the handle of a tooth brush and you have a short stileto.
To sharpen it I need a knife. But if I had a knife, I wouldn't need a sharpened toothbrush :-)
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/08/2003 14:15 Comments ||
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#8
I keep the elements of a garrote in my briefcase. I could put it together in less than a minute. Very effective if you can sneak up behind someone. He's dead or unconscious in seconds without a sound. And don't forget fire extinguishers. Use them first to blind and then immediately switch over to a bludgeoning attack.
#9
11A5S - bingo - I've figured the fire extinguishers were the best "weapons" available, too. I fly biz class and always request an exit row seat, so I'll have access to one on the bulkhead right in front of me. Chuck's mentioning the fact that you can use the seat cushion as a shield is now on my mental checklist, as well. Thx!
#11
If we as a nation want to stop the possibility or at least put a serious dent in airplane terrorism the answer is quite simple. Everybody on the plane travels nude, starkers, raw in the buff. This alone will keep the Islamofasicsts off of any and all US carriers
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire ||
08/08/2003 17:06 Comments ||
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#12
Raphael--Actually, this is good stuff, and I'd like to hear more. It's a different world since 9/11. All of us who fly are potential victims, but it doesn't mean we have to accept it passively.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/08/2003 17:13 Comments ||
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#13
Ok, then how about this: learn a martial art, and your body becomes a weapon. Don't have to learn everything, just the moves that will prove useful. Or carry a hardened briefcase. That way you can sit anywhere and have a heavy blunt weapon. Problem is, if people keep doing this, security will keep banning things from carry-on luggage.
#14
Raphael--yeah, that's another option. The more, the better.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/08/2003 17:31 Comments ||
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#15
Bush was in FL reading to the little kids, it was the Congress -- I believe AQ is competent enough to read Ari Fleischer's briefings.
Posted by: Brian ||
08/08/2003 17:39 Comments ||
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#16
"There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. To the right person, everything is a weapon."
Still can't remember who said it, but it's true. Pens, fingernail files, whatever. If it comes to either winning a fight or dying, sacrifice your watch - the crystal will make a dandy knife, if you break it right. Shoestrings can be used to make an improvised garotte. A woman's wooden sandal or 3-inch high heel is also a deadly device, used with the proper force at the right location. The real secret of being deadly is learning how to think deadly. If all else fails, stick your fingers in their eye sockets. That's a really, REALLY tender spot! And don't pull them back out - keep going farther and farther. Then close your fist and pull - face will come apart like a wet dishrag. Messy, but effective!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/08/2003 19:13 Comments ||
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#17
OP--That's the spirit! :-)
Posted by: Dar ||
08/08/2003 19:35 Comments ||
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#18
And to think the Bush Administration was cutting the budget so Air Marshalls wouldn't have to spend the night outta town--as in Boston-LA Newark-San Fran--anyone getting a clue? But we got plenty of money for a tax cut for the wealthiest 1%---oops forgot--they fly private jets
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
08/08/2003 23:20 Comments ||
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The Sudanese al-Sahafa daily said yesterday that the Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir intends to release the Islamic opposition member Hassan al-Turabi who has been jailed since more than two years.
That's too bad...
Al-Bashir said "he will not stay there in prison for ever.. There were conditions that justified al-Turabi's detention and he will be released when such conditions pass," giving no further explanations. On the other hand, the leader of the opposition al-Haditha ( recent) forces movement, al-Haj Warak, announced that al-Bashir vowed yesterday to make national dialogue with all political parties. He said that al-Bashir considered that differences between the Sudanese political parties do not constitute "but simple problem that can be eliminated by dialogue." He added that al-Bashir accepted to "supervise the dialogue personally." He called on "all pro and opposition parties to a general meeting during which various matters will be discussed."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:28 ||
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#1
"He called on "all pro and opposition parties to a general meeting during which various matters will be discussed"
makes me think of Michael Corleone calling the families together to talk peace before Tattaglia, Barzini, Sollozo and Tessio get whacked, but that could just be wishful thinking....
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/08/2003 10:19 Comments ||
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#2
Makes me think of Khun Borom of Laos. He called all his rivals to a nice dinner to make peace, then decdied, as long as he had them all in one place, what the heck? Just poison the lot of them and save time...
Posted by: Fred ||
08/08/2003 11:13 Comments ||
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#3
Aye - and Longshanks did the same with the Scottish, though he hung them from the rafters. Young William Wallace was impressed enough to need therapy, but there was none to be had. So he went away, learned Latin, grew up and came back to use the weirding way on the English. I saw it in a movie so it's very very true.
North Korea on Thursday questioned the United Statesâ sincerity in resolving a standoff over its nuclear programs as China sent a top diplomat to Pyongyang to prepare for talks on the issue. Pyongyang said a planned U.S.-South Korean military drill on Aug. 18-29 ``leaves us skeptical about the U.S. willingness to discard its hostile policy.ââ Must be time for the annual summer manuevers!
The annual Ulchi Focus Lens military exercise consists mostly of computer-simulated war games. North Korea routinely condemns such drills as rehearsals for an invasion. Last week the communist country agreed to a meeting with the United States, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea to discuss the nuclear dispute, despite earlier insisting on bilateral talks with the United States. No date or venue has been announced, but North Korea said Monday that the talks will begin soon in Beijing. Just as soon as we order a two-sided hexagonal table with green blue felt.
On Thursday, China sent Wang Yi, one of its vice foreign ministers, to North Korea to discuss arrangements for the six-nation talks, the official Xinhua News Agency reported. No other details were given. North Koreaâs closest ally, China has said it is willing to host the talks as soon as possible. It hosted a meeting between Washington and Pyongyang officials in April. Also Thursday, South Korean police detained 12 anti-U.S. protesters who barged into a U.S. military shooting range near the border with communist North Korea. Chanting ``We oppose war on the Korean Peninsula!ââ they burned U.S. flags, then clamored into the facility and climbed onto a tank, South Koreaâs Yonhap news agency said. Ship âem north of the 38th parallel. Canât think of a better punishment.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/08/2003 12:24:10 AM ||
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#1
Pyongyang said a planned U.S.-South Korean military drill on Aug. 18-29 ``leaves us skeptical about the U.S. willingness to discard its hostile policy.ââ
This is more than enough bullshit from the NKors. Ignore them until they decide to get serious about resolving this problem. In the meantime, prepare plans for every possible contingency, and make no secret of them.
The message should be: It's time to wise up, Kim, or prepare for the big squeeze.
That's gotta be the headline of the month...
National Electoral College (CNE) authorities say thousands of deceased Venezuelans must register in person with the Permanent Electoral Register (REP) otherwise they will not be eligible to vote in upcoming ballots, including a national referendum to decide if President Hugo Chavez Frias should remain in office until the end of his current mandate in 2006.
Boy, they're a lot more strict than Chicago or St. Louis...
CNE director Romulo Lares says that those individuals whose names do not appear in the electoral register should make haste to do so before the register is closed for a complete overhaul as a preliminary step ahead of an eventual referendum vote requested after August 19. Years of maladministration at the register has seen thousands of dead Venezuelans' names still not removed from the register and in the present undercurrent of ballot box manipulations, earlier elections have seen many "dead" votes cast ... some of the deceased voters have been more than 20 years departed but they still have valid national identity numbers taken with them to the grave.
"Vote early and often, even if you're dead!"
Lares says the situation is "extremely delicate" ... "to make sure the register is correct, we are asking each voter to register in person so that we can check his/her identity and to make sure they are eligible to participate under regulations specified in the national constitution."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:24 ||
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#1
You realize that Gray Davis has now signed a no-questions-asked California driver's license bill... and that driver's license holders can vote?
We demand Venezuelan observers for the upcoming Kalifornian elections!
The voices of the Undead must be heard! If you have been dead more than 20 years, please ask an illegal immigrant to cast your vote for you.
Come to think of it, these Venezuelan fellers must be some kind of conservatives.
Posted by: Mark IV ||
08/08/2003 0:44 Comments ||
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#2
Hugo will make sure every one of them shows up to register. They're one of his core constituencies.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/08/2003 12:17 Comments ||
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#5
Michael - I would like to hear some of the Daley stories! I know LBJ's legendary early forays well enough: He won his congressional seat in an election (Uvalde, in S. Texas, I think it was) where there were more votes cast than there were registered voters. And no one batted an eye. The rest is history, as they say.
#6
LBJ was jokingly known as "Landslide Lyndon" by his peers in the Seanate for the way he won his Senate seat -- by a few hundred votes after frantic, ah, "creative voting" techniques.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/08/2003 14:22 Comments ||
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#7
Tutored by Sam Rayburn, his predecessor as Speaker, and the even more underhanded techniques he invented and mastered during his time, you just know he had favors he could call in all over the Dem Congressional Districts of the State. For it to be close, he must've lost by a landslide in the actual tally. He was a Pro's Pro and a Whore's Whore. I was there in Texas all those years and saw all the winks and elbow nudges. BTW, I distributed yard signs and bumper stickers for Goldwater when he ran against LBJ - and discovered that being in the opposition in LBJ's home state was sometimes dangerous. It was a good thing I was only a kid, else I prolly would've gotten mysteriously mugged or shot in a stickup attempt.
Iran's Supreme Leader Syed Ali Khamenei today endorsed a proposal to show "Islamic compassion" to students who were detained during a recent wave of political protests in Iran.
"Yes, Mahmoud. Only beat half of them to death."
The official IRNA news agency reported that Khamenei's instruction was issued in response to a letter sent to him by his representatives in universities, Mohsen Qomi and Mohammad Hassan Aboutorabi. Syed Khamenei's representatives had urged him to show "Islamic compassion" to students who "have made it clear that they have not been part of any conspiracy".
"Nope. Nope. Wudn't us. Beat them to death!"
They said some of the students became involved in protests out of "curiosity, because a dormitory was attacked, or because they had some demands as students", reported Iranian Students News Agency. However, it is not clear whether such an amnesty would apply only to repentant students or to all those detained. About 100 detained students are due to go on trial this week. The students, asking for more political freedom and also calling for the resignation of the government, were detained after protests that had started on June 10.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:04 ||
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National security adviser Condoleezza Rice, from the pages of The Washington Post, advocated a democratic renaissance in the Middle East similar to that of post World War II in Europe. Reiterating the anti-terrorist, foreign policy goals of the administration of her boss, US President George W. Bush, Rice voiced the hope that by introducing Iraq to democracy a domino effect could be created in the region. "Much as a democratic Germany became a linchpin of a new Europe that is today whole, free and at peace, so a transformed Iraq can become a key element of a very different Middle East in which the ideologies of hate will not flourish," she said.
A nice vision. It's one I think most of us here share. It's also going to be harder to implement that performing one's own root canal — and probably just about as painful. Arabs seem to find the very concept of individual liberty indigestible.
The objectives, Rice said, are bringing stability to the region through a Palestinian-Israeli peace, diminishing what "Arab intellectuals call a political and economic 'freedom deficit'" and ultimately the terrorist threat. "In many quarters," wrote Rice, "a sense of hopelessness provides a fertile ground for ideologies of hatred that persuade people to forsake university educations, careers and families and aspire instead to blow themselves up — taking as many innocent lives with them as possible."
I don't think it's hopelessness that drives them to it. I think it's hatred, pure and simple. The Bali bombings weren't carried out by hopeless men; they were carried out by men consumed with hatred. The Talibs weren't hopeless, they were full of hatred. And the Learned Elders of Islam, who're behind the forces on the other side, aren't hopeless, either. They're filled with that combination of hatred and ambition, xenophobes with the vision of jeweled turbans and dancing girls for themselves...
After reiterating the Bush administration's mantra that deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein "posed a threat to the security of the United States and to the world .... pursued, had used and possessed weapons of mass destruction," Rice said things were now different. "Today that threat is gone. And with the liberation of Iraq, there is a special opportunity to advance a positive agenda for the Middle East that will strengthen security in the region and throughout the world. We are already seeing evidence of a new commitment to forging ahead with peace among Israelis and Palestinians."
And the same efforts, fuelled by hatred, to scuttle any movement toward peace.
Changing the Middle East, which she said comprised 22 countries with a population of 300 million, "will not be easy, and it will take time. It will require the broad engagement of America, Europe and all free nations working in full partnership with those in the region who share our belief in the power of human freedom."
And even then, chances are better than 60-40 it'll flop...
Rice said the commitment required not only military will, but "all aspects of our national power — diplomatic, economic and cultural." In its quest, the White House official said, the United States "will act because we want greater freedom and opportunity for the people of the region, as well as greater security for people in America and throughout the world."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:02 ||
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#1
"...It will require the broad engagement of America, Europe and all free nations working in full partnership with those in the region who share our belief in the power of human freedom."
Is she saying that it would be a big help if we had cooperation from old Europe France, Germany and others?
Talk about pulling teeth.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
08/08/2003 3:24 Comments ||
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#2
I agree that it'll be tough, but I don't think Arabs are predisposed against liberty. Those mullahs wouldn't have to keep decrying Hollywood and Bollywood if they weren't so popular!
#6
The same Condi LIAR Rice who opposed "nationbuilding" by Clinton--who had a convenient memory about what GW was told re: Niger--yeah she's got a lot of credibility! She just UH forgot to read the entire report--I want that job-- no accountability! Of course in this administration there is no accountability
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
08/08/2003 23:38 Comments ||
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War-weary Liberians gave west African peacekeepers a warm and tumultuous welcome to the beleaguered city of Monrovia as their parliament approved a plan for President Charles Taylor to resign.
"Oh, gosh, golly! Do you have to? Well, g'bye!"
But as the Nigerian advance guard of the regional ECOMIL force made its first, largely symbolic, foray into the town centre, a mysterious arms shipment raised new questions about Taylor's commitment to stand aside.
No! Chuck? Pshaw!
Taylor — who now controls only a fifth of his country and has struggled to defend Monrovia — shunned a key joint session of parliament debating his pledge to step down, but the motion was approved by 46 votes to one. In line with the constitution, Taylor, who has been been offered asylum by Nigeria, will hand over power to his deputy, Vice President Moses Blah.
Taylor, who stands indicted for war crimes by a UN-backed court in neighbouring Sierra Leone, sent a message to parliament which insisted he was the victim of an "international conspiracy."
"Dat's right. Dem guyz is pickin' on me!"
"They have prevented me from carrying out my constitutional responsibility of defending the country, providing essential social services to the people," he said, referring to UN sanctions and an arms embargo in place since 2001.
"For instance, my Amputations for the Children program has been set back severely..."
New evidence of Taylor's determination to breach that embargo emerged with the news that a Boeing 707 jet had deposited enough arms and ammunition to fill two trucks at Monrovia's main airport overnight. Sources close to the ECOMIL force said Taylor's Defence Minister Daniel Chea had arrived at 2:00 am to retrieve the cargo, but that ECOMIL peacekeepers based at the airport had prevented him from doing so.
"I've come to pick up my shipment."
"And what might be in that shipment, Mr. Minister of Defense?"
"It's, ummm... toys for the kiddies."
"These toys?"
"The bitch set me up."
Two shipping containers guarded by Nigerian forces could be seen on the tarmac later Thursday. Airport staff said they contained weapons brought in by Arabic-speaking pilots. Taylor is thought to have links to Libya. According to web sites consulted by AFP, the aircraft's number 9G-LAD is assigned to Johnsons Air, a Ghana-based company which has links with First International Airlines, a Belgium-based firm with reported Libyan links.
Hoo, boy! Muammar's hands are really red!
Both firms and the plane in question have been cited in several reports as being suspected of trafficking in arms from the Belgian city of Ostend.
Hey, that's fairly close to Brussels, ain't it?
But despite the illicit shipment, an irritable Taylor insisted that he has no intention of changing his decision to step down on Monday, at 11.59 am, however much he resents the massive international pressure on him to leave Liberia. "Why are people in so much of a hurry for me to leave my homeland?" Taylor told CNN television, adding: "We are not here to play games. The vice president will be sworn in on Monday."
"Then I'll overthrow him and torture him to death and things'll be back to normal..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:02 ||
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As (Ralph Peters?)said in a recent article- why the heck should we get into the midst of this melee? Liberia has dozens of factions, dozens of splinter ethnicities and dozens of languages. It simply has not decided what it wants to be. Why give them a common enemy to unite against? Thanks for nothing- let us know when you have tired out your tribal animosities .
#2
Too bad Stephanopoulos' interview with Moamar isn't taking place this Sunday. On the other hand, he would have probably tossed the Great One a cupcake question about it and moved on to discussing the Arab Street's reaction to Iraq.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/08/2003 10:10 Comments ||
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#3
I don't think Muammar's given up his ambition of being emperor of Africa. He's involved every place he can be. He wants to be on "our side," but his thought processes don't seem to follow any recognized form of logic for long periods of time.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/08/2003 11:00 Comments ||
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#4
Holy War Crimes, Batman, call the ICC on these Boys from Belgium!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/08/2003 11:07 Comments ||
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Five suspects detained over the bombing of an Israeli-owned Mombasa hotel were remanded in custody after their charges were dropped by a lower court but then filed anew before a High Court judge. The suspects, who pleaded not guilty to 15 counts of murder, were charged before High Court Judge Tom Mbaluto soon after a magistrate in a lower court ordered their release following the prosecutor's decision to drop the earlier charges.
"Well, they said they were innocent, so I let them go..."
The judge said the trial was to take place in an open court where members of the public can listen to the proceedings. The accused were arrested in connection with the car bombing that killed 12 Kenyans and three Israelis at the Israeli-owned Paradise Hotel in Mombasa, on Kenya's Indian Ocean coast, on November 28 last year. Three bombers are presumed to have died in the attack, which together with a near-miss missile attack on a jet carrying Israeli tourists, was claimed by al-Qaeda. Last month, in a change in procedural rules, jurisdiction over murder cases was removed from the magistrates' courts, and they can be tried only before High Court judges.
Oh, inconvenient, that...
The magistrate's decision to order the freeing of the suspects earlier was apparently only a technical move designed to pave the way for charging and subsequently trying the accused in the High Court. The suspects were brought to court early in the morning amid tight security. Armed police and prison wardens stood guard in the court corridors as the accused were charged. Mbaluto ordered that the suspects be produced in court again on September 18 "with a view to fixing a date of hearing". Four of the accused — Salmin Mohamed Khamisi, father and son Mohamed Kubwa and Mohamed Kubwa Seif, Said Saggar Ahmed and Aboud Rogo Mohamed — were initially charged on June 24. The fifth man, Salmin Mohamed Khamisi, was charged on July 8. The suspects were all picked up from Kenya's Indian Ocean costal region. "This is not what we can call a normal murder case," said prosecutor John Gacivih. "It is a matter that needs technical reports," he added, suggesting that the trial could take a long time. One of the defence lawyers Maobe Mao urged the prosecution to expedite the preparation and presentation before the court of witness statements and other exhibits.
"Let's get this thing under way before you have time to put together an air-tight case..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/08/2003 00:02 ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
