BY DEANNA WRENN
Thursday, July 24, 2003
CHARLESTON, W.Va.--This is from a story that Reuters news service ran this week with my byline:
"Jessica Lynch, the wounded Army private whose ordeal in Iraq was hyped into a media fiction of U.S. heroism, was set for an emotional homecoming on Tuesday. . . . Media critics say the TV cameras will not show the return of an injured soldier so much as a reality-TV drama co-produced by U.S. government propaganda and credulous reporters."
Got problems with that? I do, especially since I didnât write it. Hereâs what I sent last week to Reuters, a British news agency that compiles news reports from all over the world:
ELIZABETH--In this small county seat with just 995 residents, the girl everyone calls Jessi is a true heroine--even if reports vary about Pfc. Jessica Lynch and her ordeal in Iraq. "I think thereâs a lot of false information about her story," said Amber Spencer, a clerk at the townâs convenience store.
Palestine resident J.T. OâRock was hanging an American flag and yellow ribbon on his storefront in Elizabeth in preparation for Lynchâs return.
Like many residents here, he considers Lynch a heroine, even if newspaper and TV reports say her story wasnât the same one that originally attracted movie and book deals.
What I typed and filed for Reuters last week goes on in that vein. They asked me if they could use my byline, which I had typed at the beginning of the story I sent, and I said that would be no problem.
When I got to work Wednesday, e-mail messages were flooding my inbox calling me everything but Peter Arnett. A colleague told me a fill-in host on the nationally syndicated Glenn Beck radio show had nothing but contempt for me. I donât blame him. Thanks to Reuters, he didnât know any better.
I hope the people of Wirt County have been too busy to notice the Reuters story, the beginning of which takes a tone I never would have used. Iâm not sure what reporter or editor actually wrote the story that has my byline attached. Reuters did use one quote from the story I wrote last week in the final paragraphs of one of their earliest Lynch stories, which was sent out for publication early Tuesday morning. By Tuesday afternoon, the quote was reduced to one sentence. Still, my byline appeared. By Tuesday night, the quote was gone and Reuters was siphoning information from television reports. The beginning of the story was toned down. The part about "media fiction" was removed. But even then, my byline remained.
I understand that news wire services often edit, add, remove or write new leads for stories. What amazed me was that a story could have my byline on it when I contributed only a few sentences at the end--and in later versions I didnât contribute anything at all. The stories contained apparently fresh material attributed to sources I did not interview.
Maybe thatâs the way that wire service works. I would like to make it abundantly clear that somebody at Reuters wrote the story, not me. I may not be a member of the worldâs largest multimedia news agency, but I learned at West Virginia University how to report fairly, which is what I thought I was doing for Reuters last week. Apparently, when Reuters asked me last week if they could use my byline, they werenât talking about the story I wrote for them last week. They were talking about a story I never wrote. That was the misunderstanding.
By the way, I asked Reuters to remove my byline. They didnât. Iâm offering this column as an explanation to the people Iâve talked to in Wirt County.
Iâve been traveling there since Pfc. Lynch was reported missing in Iraq — reporting on the anxious, worry-filled days before her rescue, when some thought she would never come home. Before the family became swamped by national media phone calls, I talked to Greg Lynch on the phone about his missing daughter. I talked to old teachers, friends and neighbors. These people told me their stories, openly and honestly, and I reported what they said as accurately and honestly as I could.
When the national media flooded Elizabeth, some tabloid reporters tried to deceive the Lynch family. One uninvited cameraman had the audacity to walk right into their Palestine home. Like the Lynch family, I may never know why some members of the media act the way they do. Ms. Wrenn is a statehouse reporter for the Charleston Daily Mail, where this article originally appeared. Nice to know that there is no media bias huh? Calling Mr. Alterman?
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 12:46:47 PM ||
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This is, potentiallly, as damaging to Reuters as the Blair scandal at the NY Times, and the Kelley scandal at the BBC.
#2
This is, potentiallly, as damaging to Reuters as the Blair scandal at the NY Times, and the Kelley scandal at the BBC.
I believe Reuters makes most of its money in financial news and electronic trading, but this will definitely dent its credibility in terms of breaking news events that affect both stock and bond prices.
#5
Only if it gets played in the major media --after blogs analyze and expand, of course. The WSJ has it online, but is it in the print edition?
The Iraq campaign has convinced me to ignore completely: NYT, BBC, CNN, and Reuters -- as well as a host of formerly reputable European newspapers. I'll admit I was already leaning away from these mostly anti-American organisations, but it is absolutely unforgivable that they engage in repeated lies and systematically refuse to portray the liberation in a positive light.
#7
I guess Reuters should start putting scare quotes around its bylines.
Posted by: Larry ||
07/24/2003 15:20 Comments ||
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Some newspapers have to stop paying Rooters for news services, even if only financial and electronic trading, to make a difference. Any candidates out there reading this? Doubt it. So, yeah, ho-hum.
Posted by: Michael ||
07/24/2003 16:23 Comments ||
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SM,can she sue?
If so she should stick it to them.
#10
Fox - Brit Hume's special report just raised the ante - explaining the whole issue - will Rooters "explain" - don't hold your breath
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 18:33 Comments ||
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What's interesting to me is not so much how Reuters is going to react but how the news services that just print what Reuters sends them are going to react.
And I agree with Kalle. The Iraq coverage has really gone past spin and into outright fabrication. It's a disgrace.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/24/2003 19:27 Comments ||
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SUE REUTERS TAKE THEM TO COURT AND WIN: THEY NEED A LESSON.
Very unlikely she can sue. Newswire stringers probably give up both content and editorial rights to their material, which have a half-life of perhaps hours. Even if she could claim that Reuters damaged her reputation, a simply apology and retraction from Reuters would probably remove any grounds for monetary damages.
War-battered Afghanistan, where using a cellphone is a frustratingly hit-and-miss affair, will get its second GSM network on Sunday, and the company providing it vows to make failed calls a thing of the past. TDCA Ltd, trading under the name Roshan, meaning "light" in the Dari language, is owned by a consortium grouping the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development, Monaco Telecom International (MTI), U.S.-based MCT Corp and French telecoms giant Alcatel. Its network will initially cover the capital Kabul, then expand to the five other main cities -- Herat, Kandahar, Mazar-i-Sharif, Jalalabad and Kunduz -- by January 9, entailing a preliminary investment of $55 million.
Canadian CEO Karim Khoja told reporters at a slick outlet in Kabul on Thursday he expected to equal the market share of competitor Afghan Wireless Communication Co by the year-end.
"We expect 50 percent by the end of the year and we intend to be the market leader within 12 months," he said. He estimated AWCCâs current subscriber numbers at around 40,000 and said his firm had a capacity of over 50,000 now which could quickly be increased to 100,000 on Alcatelâs system. "The pent-up demand is huge," he said, "even before we started we have had a huge number of people queuing for pre-subscription forms."
Khoja, who worked installing a network in Croatia after the war there, said his firm had no problems with security in Afghanistan, in spite of its continuing instability.
"What I have found throughout the world is that this is a service people want and they protect it for themselves because it is their service," he said. "In general, we have really had absolutely no problems whatsoever. Now that doesnât mean we donât take precautions, that we donât have guards, or shelters with alarms in them, but in general, I have been pleasantly surprised." No suprise here, bad guys really like cell phones. They think they canât be traced. Just keep thinking that way.
He said the firm had had to overcome considerable bureaucracy, and also some demands for bribes. "But we donât do anything thatâs not ethical," he said. "But ethical is such a flexible concept, depending where you are."
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 2:34:59 PM ||
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Spinboldak will get service after the town's cleaned up a bit.....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/24/2003 15:26 Comments ||
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Can we send that "Can you hear me now?" guy from the commercials over to plug this? Maybe somebody will shoot him.
A B-52 heavy bomber targeted "enemy fighters" after a rocket attack on a US base in northeast Afghanistan, a US military spokesman said on Thursday. Two rockets were fired at Asadabad fire base in Kunar province 180 km northeast of Kabul on Wednesday but caused no casualties or damage, Colonel Rodney Davis told reporters at a Kabul military compound. "Mortars were fired at the suspected point of origin and close air support requested. A B-52 responded first, then two AV-8 harriers. The B-52 dropped a joint direct attack munitions bomb and the harriers dropped one 450-kg laser-guided bomb on enemy fighters observed at the suspected location," Davis said. It was not known if there were any casualties from the bombing and Davis said a "battle damage assessment" of the bombsite would be carried out on Thursday. Bring tweezers and a zip lock bag.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 10:22:10 AM ||
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B-52? Sounds like a message to future mortar/rocket attackers.
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 10:51 Comments ||
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> B-52? Sounds like a message to future mortar/rocket attackers.
No, I think it is the new paradigm. I just talked to my nieceâs husband (just back with a broken foot) and he said they are flying the B-52 in cold-war era mode loaded with JDAMs. The âbootsâ on the ground can call for support with a GPS number and these old birds (sitting high and safe) can respond. If you look at any photo footage coming out of there you can see big circular âcon trailsâ in the sky.
An old bird with dumb bombs (but smart tail fins) giving the boots on the ground precision air support â¦.now that is a Tax dollar that was well spent!
Posted by: Red ||
07/24/2003 12:25 Comments ||
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I was suprised by the rapid response of the B-52 myself, but your comment makes sense, Red. I recall a paper a looooong while ago (+15 years), called "An embarassment of riches", which advocated re-arming B-52s with Tomahawks or flechette dispersing bombs. Old idea, old tactics, updated with new technology for a new mission. *thumbs up* Good job, and good comment!
#5
It seems that Gulf II did not fully incorporate afghan lessons, but then those high-speed drive-by probes set their own new standard.
I know an old SAC pilot whose has a son that now flies a BUFF (b52) that is older than he is. He says that it is not the best place to spend a workday.
There seems to be a (post afghan) report circulating that states that a properly armed BUFF wing with minimal Fighter support could have done a better job in the IRAQ âNo Fly Zonesâ at a fraction of the cost.
B52 and close air support should be some sort of oxymoron but I guess it is not!
Posted by: Red ||
07/24/2003 17:49 Comments ||
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Naveed Miraj ISLAMABAD: The future of Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan has become a major issue in bilateral relations between Pakistan and the Unites States, an official told The Frontier Post on Tuesday. He disclosed he issue was a point of hot discussions during President Pervez Musharrafâs visit to the US, as intelligence gathered by American agencies showed many Taliban sympathizers were using refugee camps located close to the border for hiding. âUS intelligence reports say Taliban fighters cross the frontier to launch attacks on Afghan and allied forces and then come back to hide in the refugee camps on this side of the Durand Line,â the official revealed.
Fancy that. Who'da thunkit?
One proposal forwarded by the US is that the refuge camps located near the border be shifted to areas deeper in Pakistani territory. âThis is a proposal that is not acceptable to Pakistan, because this could be very disturbing for the economic and social life in the areas where new camps would be set up,â he explained. Pakistan instead was asking the Bush administration to help send back these refugees to Afghanistan, he said, adding: âBoth the proposals entail a cost, and we would prefer the refuges to go back.â
"That way they won't have to do all that border crossing stuff when they want to stage an attack..."
But on the ground, the situation in Afghanistan has again slowed down the phased repatriation plan carried out under the aegis of the United Nations. âMost of the refugees donât want to go back as the security situation is not pretty precarious,â the source pointed out. Currently, government agencies are evaluating the pros and cons of both proposals and would finalize recommendations shortly. The recommendations will be submitted to President Musharraf.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 05:38 ||
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"not pretty precarious,â
Is it or isn't precarious?
Precarious for whom,Afgan and Allied forces or precarious for the Taliban?
If the camps are moved into Afganistan then the Tali's wouldn't have a safe base across the border to operate from(fewer bases anyway).
If the camps are moved deeper into Pakland then the Tali's would be that much safer.
#2
the situation in Afghanistan has again slowed down the phased repatriation plan carried out under the aegis of the United Nations
I think we've identified the root cause of the problem -- a refugee repatriation scheme brought to you by the same folk who are workng hard on repatriating the Palestinians ("In business since 1948!")
KUWAIT CITY : Kuwait is launching an intensive inspection campaign on charity activities to ensure alms and donations collected from the public are not tunneled to terrorist organisations and groups. The newly-appointed Minister of Foreign Affairs and Acting Minister of Social Affairs and Labour, Sheikh Mohammed Al-Sabah has issued an order to form a committee which will conduct field inspections on charity activities in the country.
Form a committee... Works every time.
Ministry Undersecretary Sheikh Duaij Al-Khalifa Al-Sabah issued a decision, based on Sheikh Mohammed's order, to form a committee which includes in its membership nine senior Ministry officials, in addition to representatives from the Ministries of Interior and Commerce and Industry and Kuwait Municipality. The committee will ensure donations and alms collected from the public are conducted in a legal fashion with proof either by voucher or bank monthly deductions. The committee is authorised, based on the Minister's order, to inspect all types of charity organisations and their branches, including kiosks affiliated to them. The decision also forbids non-governmental organisations and charity societies from placing special containers and money boxes at markets, mosques and other public areas.
There go the nickel boxes...
The committee should also ensure charity organisations are in full compliance with the Labour Law regulating the recruitment of expatriates in the private sector. It prohibits them from recruiting expatriates in violation of the provisions of the law.
And there go the Pak bell-ringers...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 16:50 ||
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As the first Australian troops landed in the Solomon Islands yesterday the Prime Minister, John Howard, gave a strong indication the Federal Government was prepared to intervene in other Pacific trouble spots. Mr Howard and the Opposition Leader, Simon Crean, said that Operation Helpem Fren could be a precedent for further combined military-police security force deployments in the region. "Very importantly, it will send a signal to other countries in the region that help is available if it is sought, that we do have a desire to help all the peoples of the Pacific to have conditions of law and order and hope and peace and stability for their future generations," Mr Howard said during a farewell ceremony for task force members in Townsville. Mr Crean, speaking on local radio, said it was in Australiaâs interests to be prepared to respond to other requests for stabilisation operations in the Pacific. "You look at the problems in the area and they are on our doorstep. If you let the criminals take over in any country, that does let the gangland in, the drugs, the guns, all the smuggling operations - and that becomes a wider threat to the whole of our region," he said. Not to mention the turban set.
The head of the Australian-led intervention, senior Foreign Affairs Department official Nick Warner, warned it was probably a "last chance" for the Solomons to achieve political stability. He said the people of the Solomons had the right to be free of threats from "armed thugs" who had brought hardship to good and generous people. He warned that Australian forces - along with those from New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Fiji and Tonga — would not hesitate to act against lawlessness. Lock and load, mates.
The Australian Federal Police Commissioner, Mick Keelty, said the intervention provided a one-off opportunity for the Solomons to get it right. "Unlike some other failed states, where there is absolutely no government in place, what we have here is a government in place and bipartisan support for the intervention." But Mr Keelty warned it could take months to gauge the level of opposition to the force in provincial areas of the islands. "I think weâll have an early understanding of [potential opposition] in Honiara at least over the next 24 to 48 hours," he said. "In terms of the provinces, that will take a bit longer as we reach out." Reach out and touch Harold Keke with a 7.62.
The first troops to arrive were members of Charlie Company from the Townsville-based 2RAR who emerged from a Hercules in combat fatigues just after 7am, carrying their weapons and heavy packs. There to greet them was the Australian High Commissioner, Bob Davis. More aircraft touched down throughout the day, unloading troops and tonnes of equipment and supplies. Just after 9.40am, Australian infantrymen stepped off a landing craft from the Manoora and sloshed through the last few steps to Red Beach, which is dotted with rusting war refuse. Nice touch of history, that.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 10:54:04 AM ||
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Operation Helpem Fren? Is that pidgin english?
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 11:28 Comments ||
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There is overwhelming public backing for the force, called Operation Helpem Fren in the pidgin English that loosely unites the 450,000 islanders living about 750km northeast of Australia.
Yup.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 11:45 Comments ||
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Secure the airfield, set up a perimeter. Get those ships out of the sound and dig in.
Thanks to Merde in France
When two virulent opponents of American involvement in Iraq like President Jacques Chirac and Prime Minister Mahathir bin Mohamad of Malaysia get together, the language of luncacy disapproval of U.S. policy normally gets a full workout. But this was a notch above standard. Uh-oh. standard is already pretty high. This sounds bad.
Chirac, in Putrajaya on Monday to receive the Kuala Lumpur World Peace Award from Mahathir, said, according to Agence France-Presse, that the world could no longer submit to the law of the jungle and needed to create an international organization that could eliminate America unilateralism. For Chirac, what was required instead, according to the report in AFP's French-language service, "is an international structure, an international mechanism that can do away with unilateralism and make the U.S. do as I say bring multilateralism."
"'Cuz it works so well..."
"We can no longer accept the law of the strongest, the law of the jungle," Chirac was quoted as saying. Yeah it's bad but pretty standard I'd say. Nothing we haven't heard 10,074 times already.
The French news agency in turn attributed its version of Chirac's remarks to the official translator during award ceremonies in conjunction with Chirac's prize. Translator? Did he give the speech in Malay?
In the carefully measured vocabulary of official French propaganda demagoguery criticism of the United States — not specifically mentioned by Chirac — the nonetheless clear juxtaposition of America with "law of the jungle" would be something new and evocative. That's an unfair assumption. He might have been alluding to Congo?
Coming at a moment of supposedly improving trans-Atlantic relations and attempts at the United Nations to fix a basis for wider international participation in pacifying Iraq, the report of the French president's jungle reference startled. Nobody who has paid even the slightest amount of attention to the news should be surprised.
On Tuesday, the press office put out what it said was a brief but unofficial text of what Chirac had said. It contained no reference to "the law of the jungle" but a torturous, seemingly fragmentary sentence that said, "We can no longer accept the evolution of men, the world, we can no longer accept the simple law of the strongest." Well that's much better.
Either the president and his advisers thought better of the phrase, or the official translator quoted in the dispatch had added a little zest to Chirac's remarks in line with Malaysian policy, which has described the United States as anti-Muslim and against nonwhite peoples. "What has been done in the war in Iraq is wrong both during the war and after the war," Mahathir said.
"Nossir. I don't like it."
"I totally share the opinion of the prime minister," Chirac responded. "We have had the same point of view, both before, during and after the war." Warning: punchline approaching. Prepare to be reduced to helpless tears laughter.
Chirac was honored, the AFP dispatch said, for his "resolute opposition to the war in Iraq and the courage he demonstrated in placing himself on the side of the oppressed."
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
07/24/2003 11:02:28 AM ||
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Yup. Sharia in France 2010.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 11:10 Comments ||
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"We can longer accept the evolution of men..." Chriraq turns out to be a proponent of intelligent design. Who'd a thunk?
Posted by: af ||
07/24/2003 13:18 Comments ||
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Take a hand full of sand and pound it up your asses.
F#$%ing frogs.
Ever notice how when folks list the 9/11 borg they say that most of them came from Soddy land? Ever wonder where the other two came from? I'm certain that one of them came from Malaysia (I had a bizarre conversation with him).
Datuk Dude, where is the 5 billion you scammed from the Hong Kong & Shanghai bank and Bank Bumi?
#2
Conspiracy theories flourish in environments where the credibility of the social institutions has been destroyed - and in this case the destruction was aided and abetted by their own Govt in a craven gamble for a few more years on the public tit.
#3
I recall from my childhood that Little Hanzel and Gretel were also bit slow comprehending that Gramma didn't look or sound quite right when they visited her that last time either...
PS My grandmother would read me the German version of this story involving the woodsman and his "Big Ass Ax", not that sanitized piece of crap many kids got!
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 11:31 Comments ||
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Yep, After the CIA bombed Pan Am flight whatever and that didn't work. They went after the USS Cole. That didn't work so CIA went after our african embassies. Still no action on world domination. So while Bill Clinton fought off an angry congress US secreat service personel began recruiting disaffected muslims dupes with a promise of everlasting...
Most Muslims in Germany probably believe this theory. However the percentage of Muslims in Germany is in the low single digits, so they're not even close to being half of the count. Nope - it's Germans who are the bulk of the conspiracy theorists.
Germany has a population of about 80m. About 20m are from what was East Germany - not enough to add up to 1/3 of the population, meaning that some left-wing West Germans were also credulous enough to believe this hypothesis.
#8
I'm in Germany, but haven't heard anything like this crap. I guess they just surveyed the Universities. Most college students are like those of ours from Planet Bezerkley.
As for the muslim population, I wouldn't say it's small, seeing as there are many Turkish families that settled here after WWII. They basically came to do the crap work that was "beneath" the average German to do. (Pride is such a wonderful thing.) It's quite interesting as the German-Turk situation here is just like the Black-White one in the states. (No violence, but the prejudice is there on both sides.) Happy Shining People!
I read back in '98 that there was 1 non-German to every 8 Germans in the country. At that time it was an "alarming" trend. Then again, Germans don't tend to have large families. They along with Japan have actually experienced negative birth rates towards the end of the 90's.
Don't worry though, a German co-worker told me a while back that a cleric in Colonge or Koln has already advocated the overthrow of the German government for the creation of....(wait for it)...an islamic state. Even if it means...violence. (Brought to you by the religon of peace. Like Hitler, they only want peace, a piece of this country and a piece of that country, and a ...oh the hell with it WE WANT IT ALL!!!!!
Posted by: Paul ||
07/24/2003 16:47 Comments ||
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A beekeeper accused of being the chief assassin for Greeceâs deadliest terrorist organization told a court Thursday that he was proud of the groupâs legacy because "it targeted symbols of imperialism," raising cheers from his supporters in the room. Dimitris Koufodinas, 45, has admitted belonging to the November 17 terror group. The militant group attacked American and British military personnel, Western diplomats and Greek industrialists, eluding police for decades before being exposed after a bungled bombing attempt last year. "They describe the actions of November 17 as terrorism. No, it targeted symbols of imperialism ... and we are proud of it," Koufodinas told the court. Too bad Greece no longer has the death penalty.
Koufodinas is accused of participating in 17 of the groupâs 23 murders since 1975, including the 2000 killing of British military attache Brig. Stephen Saunders. He and 18 other alleged group members are being tried inside a maximum security prison in Athens. Koufodinas refused to provide any details of November 17âs activities, claiming the court did not have the authority to try him. "I refuse to cooperate and help you try a revolutionary organization as criminals," he said. "I am a member of November 17. I assume political responsibility for its actions ... Most of its actions were anti-imperialist and anti-American." Koufodinas was applauded and cheered by supporters in the prison courtroom sitting next to relatives of November 17âs victims. "To the families of those who became a target - unfairly according to them, but rightly according to the organization - history will judge us," he said. And we judge you guilty.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 9:27:41 AM ||
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Too bad Greece no longer has the death penalty.
Death penalty? I thought they were going to give the guy a medal. Isn't Greece still a hotbed of anti-Americanism exceeding even Russia?
#2
This guy sounds just like those SLA idiots we tossed in prison last year. The woman plead guilty to avoid a jury trial. She did not think she would get a fair trial. Translation: NOBODY has any sympathy for terrorist (past or present). She had tons of useful idiots 'suppporters' before she plead guilty. Then everyone was 'like wow, she really IS a terrorists'. FYI she plead guilty for trying to plant bombs on police cars (A real American Mom). May she and the Nov 17 RIP.
#3
Yes, Zhang, it appears to be. What say you, Aris? Is Greece a hotbed of anti-Americanism?
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
07/24/2003 17:26 Comments ||
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Oh my, yes.
Given the fact that I wouldn't consider America's utter collapse a good thing, I'm probably in the top five percent or so of so most *pro*-American people in Greece.
Also pretty much said the same thing in sgtstryker's board, here, a couple months back. Ofcourse I was then mocked for calling Greece the most anti-American nation in Europe, and people accused me of projecting my own "Anti-American" feelings on my nation. Pfft.
The German governmentâs efforts to ban a group from raising funds for the militant Islamic movement Hamas and the families of suicide bombers were thwarted Wednesday when a federal court effectively lifted the ban. The Federal Administrative Court in Leipzig, in handing down the ruling, said the al-Aqsa group must be allowed to continue its fund- raising activities until its legal status is finally determined. Last August, the German government slapped a ban on the group calling itself al-Aqsa in the western German city of Aachen, with Interior Minister Otto Schily calling the group a security threat. All funds and property belonging to al-Aqsa were confiscated. "We do not tolerate terrorist activity in Germany or groups that support it abroad," said Schily at the time.
Not until a sympathetic judge steps into the picture, anyway...
Schily said al-Aqsa, which was founded in 1991 as a welfare group for Arabs, had instead been raising money for Hamas and pledging aid to families of those who carried out suicide bombings against Israel. Al-Aqsa subsequently filed an appeal against the ban. In Wednesdayâs ruling, the Leipzig court said the group can continue its fund-raising efforts pending outcome of the appeal. Legal experts said it could be years before the court case reaches a conclusion. *Sigh*
Posted by: seafarious ||
07/24/2003 12:29:15 AM ||
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I'd wager that they'll never get caught with funds in accounts that the Govt knows about, again.
Obviously the terrorists can operate freely since the legal system is running far behind reality. Sounds like they're gonna Thimk (intentional) about it for a long time. Is this true across the entire EU?
I guess the answer doesn't really matter since we know Phrawnce is sympathetic (or pathetic) and at least as permissive as Germany - so the 2 largest countries in the EU are wide open for fundraising. As long as there are holes in the net, the shit will continue.
Mind you, Hamas is still (technically I think) legal in Australia because (wait for it) it is only on the US banned list, not the UN banned list, and of course, the UN is the sole arbiter of unbiased international morality, as we all know so very well...
Get ready people, this is even going to infuriate Liberalhawk. Edited for length but read the whole thing.
In a study that ponders the similarities between former President Ronald Reagan, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini and Rush Limbaugh, four American university researchers say they now have a better understanding of what makes political conservatives tick. Huh? Wasnât Hitler a National Socialist?
Underlying psychological motivations that mark conservatives are "fear and aggression, dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity; uncertainty avoidance; need for cognitive closure; and terror management," the researchers wrote in an article, "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition," recently published in the American Psychological Associationâs Psychological Bulletin. Cool! Does this mean that weâll all eventually be able to get free reeducation treatment at government expense? From little mustard seeds do mighty trees grow....
"From our perspective, these psychological factors are capable of contributing to the adoption of conservative ideological contents, either independently or in combination," they wrote, according to a press release issued by the University of California at Berkeley. The researchers also contend left-wing ideologues such as Joseph Stalin and Fidel Castro "might be considered politically conservative in the context of the systems that they defended." But, since their genocide actions were for the good of humanity as a whole, weâre going to leave them out of this study so that we can more narrowly focus on political concerns.
The study was conducted by Associate marxist fruitloop Professor Jack Glaser and visiting Professor Frank Sulloway of UC Berkeley, Associate Professor John Jost of Stanford Universityâs Graduate School of Business and Professor Arie Kruglanski of the University of Maryland at College Park. Glaser allowed that while conservatives are less "integratively complex" than others, "it doesnât mean that theyâre simple-minded." Wow! Thanks guys! I feel better already!
Conservatives donât feel the need to jump through complex, intellectual hoops in order to understand or justify some of their positions, he said, according to the Berkeley news release. Yeah, itâs called common sense.
"They are more comfortable seeing and stating things in black and white in ways that would make liberals squirm," Glaser explained. Couldnât have phrased it better mysel.... hey, maybe thereâs something to this study afterall!
The assistant professor of public policy said President George W. Bushâs comments during a 2001 trip to Italy provide an example. The Republican president told assembled world leaders, "I know what I believe, and I believe what I believe is right." Glaser also noted Bush told a British reporter last year, "Look, my job isnât to nuance." Iâm not even sure what that last statement meant, but I probably agree with it.
The Berkeley news release said the psychologists sought patterns among 88 samples, involving 22,818 participants, taken from journal articles, books, conference papers, speeches, interviews, judicial opinions and survey studies. Consistent, common threads were found in 10 "meta-analytic calculations" performed on the material, Glaser said. Meta-what? Oh, you mean that you made it up!
Berkeleyâs Sulloway said the research is the first of its kind, synthesizing vast amounts of information to produce an "elegant and unifying explanation" for political conservatism under the rubric of "motivated social cognition."
I have an "elegant and unifying explanation" for the way I react, too: I'm right, goobers like these guys are wrong. My explanation's provable by empirical observation.
This area of psychological study, the news release explained, "entails the tendency of peopleâs attitudinal preferences on policy matters to be explained by individual needs based on personality, social interests or existential needs."
Read that sentence out loud. Don't blame me for what happens to your tongue...
Noting most all belief systems develop in part to satisfy psychological needs, the researchers said their conclusions do not "mean that conservatism is pathological or that conservative beliefs are necessarily false, irrational, or unprincipled." Their finding also are not judgmental, they emphasized. Judgemental? Noooo. Not politically motivated either.
"In many cases, including mass politics, âliberalâ traits may be liabilities, and being intolerant of ambiguity, high on the need for closure, or low in cognitive complexity might be associated with such generally valued characteristics as personal commitment and unwavering loyalty," the researchers wrote. Characteristics nobody in Berkeley actually has. Trust me on this one.
However, the study showed, according to Glaser, liberals appear to have a higher tolerance for change than conservatives. And he needed a dozen years of college to come up with that?
But first, what is it about this that makes me think of bovine flatulence? Well, everything. Scientists spend millions of taxpayer dollars studying the methane which comes out of the academic end of heifers, reportedly because such gaseous discharge contributes to global warming. Whatever their reasons, they think it's important work. They either don't mind that their research stinks â literally â or they think all of their efforts are worth the money poured into them. And while words like gassy, insubstantial, and malodorous certainly apply to the Berkeley study, there are two chief differences between the study of cow flatulence and this study of conservative psychology. First, the cow-scientists can claim that there's a legitimate purpose to their pursuits. Overblown or not, global warming is something scientists should study. Secondly, while the earth-sciences folks are primarily concerned with what rises up and away from the back end of a bull, these bozos at Berkeley are 100 percent committed to studying and disseminating what plunks to the ground when it leaves the same anatomical disembarkation area.
#2
Wow! Those are some really big words! They fit right in with my current study, "Why People Understood Ronald Reagan But Don't Have a Clue About Berkeley Perfessers."
Posted by: Matt ||
07/24/2003 12:32 Comments ||
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#3
Leftist thinking: Qusay and Uday were victims of their father. They were brought up to be sadists and had no choice. They were victims of their father just as much as the people they tortured and killed themselves. We have their blood on our hands and that makes us just as bestial as them. We should dwell on this for days and feel terribly guilty. I think I'll cry now.
Conservative thinking: They're animals and they're dead. The world is a better place. Let's get the power going, the government in place, clean out the rest of the cockroaches and move on. We'll contemplate our navels later.
Put me in that latter group!
Posted by: Dar ||
07/24/2003 12:41 Comments ||
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#4
Lucky: I picked up on that "meta" reference, too. Translated, the tortuous sentence which precedes it means: "We didn't do a lick of original research. We read a bunch of other studies and used them to support our hypothesis." So tell me, how do you calculate a confidence interval for "meta-analysis?" Variance? Minimum sample size? How do you determine if your axes are independent? This is junk science at its absolute worst. Classical civilization became lost when it wandered into the wasteland of neo-Platonism. Instead of metaphysics we have meta-analysis. This just makes me ill.
#5
Why is Bush,then,an agent of change in Iraq while the Liberals wanted to keep Saddam in power?
Posted by: El Id ||
07/24/2003 14:49 Comments ||
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#6
Add. To paraphrase P.J. O'Rourke:By Liberals I don't mean open-minded,permissive people or even big-government Democrats.I mean people who think Ben&Jerry giving 1% of their profits to world peace is absolutely fabulous.
Posted by: El Id ||
07/24/2003 14:55 Comments ||
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#7
So so happy that someone has done a study on this!
Why they did it, I have no idea. I remember a line in Blazing Saddles "For crissakes, we've GOT to protect our phoney baloney jobs!"
Why don't they do a study on Useless Academic Studies and Their Costs to the Taxpayer? That I'd be interested in.
#10
"They are more comfortable seeing and stating things in black and white in ways that would make liberals squirm," Glaser explained. (I like it when they squrim,feels great)
Wrong,stupid!
Had a similar discussion with a vegitarian, pacifist lady friend awhile back.
All the"Bovine Scatology"in this article is just that"Bovine Scatology"(Gen.Swarzcoff)
It has nothing to due with black,white,gray or any other color.
It is a matter of right and wrong.
What a bunch of dumb-asses!
#12
So conservatives like certainty and liberals like nuance? Then I guess we have to rewrite a famous liberal's most famous speech:
"December 7 is a day that might, or might not, live in infamy. We simply don't have the historical perspective to judge the event at this point in time. We need to examine the root causes of what appears at first to be an act of aggressive violence, and I'm confident that those men trapped in the Oklahoma would want us to do so."
Posted by: Matt ||
07/24/2003 19:11 Comments ||
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EFL. From the World Socialist Web Site.
There is little doubt that Uday and Qusay Hussein, the two sons of former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein killed by US forces in a house on the outskirts of Mosul July 22, were morally and politically reprehensible figures. By all accounts, Uday Hussein, the elder, was a sexual predator and murderer, while Qusay, as chief of Iraqâs notorious security apparatus, had even more blood on his hands. Given the reactionary nature of the regime, there is no reason to doubt the extent and depth of their crimes. Stop right there and youâll have a good article!
Having said that, both the means by which Husseinâs sons were liquidated and the manner in which the killings were greeted by the American government and media speak volumes about the nature of the US intervention in Iraq and the character of the American political establishment. Damn! They didnât stop there!
On the plane of morality, there exist no fundamental differences between the personnel of the Hussein regime and the Bush administration. The latter operates in every sphere with unashamed lawlessness and violence. If there is a difference in the degree of brutality against its own citizens, the ârestraintâ exercised by the Bush forces is a matter of circumstance rather than moral superiority over the killers and torturers of the ousted Iraqi regime.
I wonder what circumstance? We don't treat our citizens â or the citizens of other countries â brutally as a habit because we're not a brutal people at heart. Maybe that's it. Other than that, there's no difference between us and Sammy's regime. Purely a matter of circumstance...
In the operation against the Hussein brothers the US military mobilized hundreds of troops and dozens of vehicles and aircraft. The American forces used automatic weapons, rockets, rocket-propelled grenades and tow missiles against four individuals armed with AK-47 automatic rifles.
What stopped them from hollering "We surrender!" instead of opening fire on our guys?
The assault had the character of a gangland slaying, the vengeful wiping out of the cornered leadership of one gang by a more powerful and better-armed outfit. An unnamed senior US military official in Iraq spoke like a Mafia don, telling the UPI: âThis is a very beneficial hit. They cannot feel anything other than doom, since if we can take down these guys, we can take down anybody.â
Pretty much a true statement, I'd say. How 'bout you, Michael? Freddy? Luca?
The exultation of US and British officials and the media over the killings in Mosulâwhich included the death of the 14-year-old son of Qusay Hussein, Mustapha can only arouse revulsion. The pleasure that these circles take in bloodletting and violence has a pathological character.
Poor little Mustafa died with a gun in his hand at age 14. What's more pathological than that? What stopped them from hollering "We surrender!"?
So do the stupes spin quacks.
President George W. Bush boasted, âNow more than ever Iraqis can know the former regime is gone and is not coming back.â Senator Ted Kennedy, the dean of Democratic âliberals,â expressed satisfaction over the killings. âItâs progress,â he said. Britainâs Prime Minister Tony Blair was less restrained, declaring, âThis is a great day for the new Iraq.â Theyâre right, you know.
The American media was both jubilant and bloodthirsty. The New York Daily News carried photos of Saddam Hussein and his two sons, with red crosses placed over Uday and Qusay, and the words, âOne to go.â Rupert Murdochâs New York Post headlined its editorial âE-RAT-ICATED!â Good pun, Murdoch! The New York Times also celebrated the âhitâ in Mosul, calling the assassination of the Hussein brothers âthe most encouraging news out of Iraq in weeks.â The editors of the Washington Post called the deaths âvery good news indeedâ and went on to claim that the killings âmeant a serious blow to the diehard resistance that has plagued the postwar administration.â
Hmmm... If everybody's saying the same thing but you, maybe you're the one that's wrong?
The notion that the murders in Mosul will halt Iraqi resistance to the US colonial occupation of that country is wishful thinking of the most politically blinkered variety. The American government and media establishment apparently believes its own propaganda that the only opposition to the US presence is being offered by âholdoutsâ of the old regime, âterroristsâ and âcriminals.â Youâre right: we forgot the retards and beauzeaux
And the turbans. The place is just chock full of Bad Guys â but you've got to start someplace, and where better than at the top?
These people are so blind to social and political reality and so distant from the Iraqi people that they cannot conceive of popular resistance that rejects both the Baathist regime and foreign imperialist tyranny.
No, we're not. We conceive it very well, very clearly, in fact.
Attacks on US forces continued unabated July 23, as two more American soldiers died and nine were wounded in attacks. And the moonbats are so blind to social and political reality that they believe this cow manure.
If you're dumb enough to still be a commie, you're dumb enough to swallow this stuff...
Posted by: RiNeref ||
07/24/2003 9:10:07 AM ||
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#4
Morality is when they tell you to produce something nobody wants to buy. Truth is when they paint the grass the right color of green whenever dear leader comes to town. Goodness is when you are only allowed to buy 1 tube of toothpaste per month.
Careful mojo. If you simply say "Stalin" they might consider you one of them :)
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 11:23 Comments ||
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#6
Unfortunately,the trains all ran to Siberia.And you couldn't buy a return ticket.
Posted by: El Id ||
07/24/2003 14:57 Comments ||
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#7
Tokyo Taro: LOL!
mojo: Rafael's right. The beauzeaux revere Stalin as a hero. They think his cruelties were really the only course of action that would not have been evil at the time. Wait a minute, did I say they think at all? Oops⦠my innacuracy.
Now, if I was prime minister — which I'm not — I'da phrased that "I'm very unhappy that they take a Canadian and kill a Canadian," but I'm probably just picky that way...
Wants the body back, huh? Boy, he's really fired up...
Foreign Minister Bill Graham, emerging from the same cabinet meeting, reiterated the government's demands for an "open and transparent" inquiry to determine who was responsible for her death on July 10.
So far the "transparency" consists of glassy-eyed stares from the ayatollahs...
Mr. Graham said he took some comfort from the decision earlier yesterday to turn the freshly ordered inquiry into Ms. Kazemi's death over to the Tehran military court. The move, which Mr. Graham termed a "positive" sign, takes the inquiry out of the hands of Saeed Mortazavi, a controversial, conservative hardline prosecutor whom some Iranians accuse of being responsible for Ms. Kazemi's death.
Well, that certainly would have been efficient. I'm sure he'd have saved lotsa taxpayer dollars investigating himself...
Mr. Graham also said Canada was considering sanctions against Iran that go beyond the indefinite recall of its ambassador "for consultations." He said the federal government won't make a decision until it gets input on what would be most effective from Philip MacKinnon, Canada's ambassador to Iran. Mr. MacKinnon is expected back in Ottawa by the weekend.
"Mr Prime Minister, I think we should mock them severely!"
"Oh, I dunno. That's pretty drastic."
"We could criticize their table manners!"
"Won't they find that... ummm... offensive?"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 14:52 ||
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#1
"Let's ask the Americans for help!"
Dialing sounds...
"Well, what did they say?"
"They haven't answered yet, the phone just keeps ringing and ringing."
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
07/24/2003 15:14 Comments ||
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#2
Ambassador: "I think it's time to start mending fences."
Chretian: "With Iran?"
Ambassador: "No, with our nice neighbor to the south!"
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/24/2003 15:23 Comments ||
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#3
Lets not hit our Canadian friends too hard. They in the govt may be waking up from a long slumber, and do not have all their faculties firing yet (heh heh). Nothing like something bad hitting home. The Iranian govt needs to feel the heat from this as well as for being the Hospitality House for Al and the Qaedas. Plus heat applied liberally for the U reprossessing and Bushehr Plute Generator. Add some more for student unrest and underpinnings can get shook. The beginnings of a real Paraiah image. This is for the long haul, folks.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/24/2003 15:24 Comments ||
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#4
If I remember correctly, I think the Foreign Affairs Minister said that this incident is not worth straining diplomatic relations over. It is the victim's family's insistance that put the drive into this from the beginning. If it wasn't for this, the gov't would be all too happy to say "well, it says so in your passport, if you visit a country of your other citizenship, don't expect help from us!"
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 15:35 Comments ||
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#5
Since everyone else in the world seems to have a short memory, I would like to mention that our neighbors to the north helped Americans get out of Iran when the Ayatollahs took over in '79. They hid them out from the mobs in the Canadian Embassy, clothed them, gave them showers, fed them, gave them Canadian passports, and gave them a plane ride out. If I remember corectly, they also gave them Canadian Whiskey to fortify their spirits when they got them into the embassy. Not quite Jack Daniels, but still....In my book, that qualifies them for a lot of forbearance.
Government has banned the latest edition of US weekly magazine Newsweek because it carries material likely to incite Muslim religious sentiments, information minister said today.
And we all know what happens when Muslim religious sentiments get all impacted and inflamed...
Shaikh Rashid told AFP that all copies of the weekly's July 28 edition would be confiscated. "We have ordered the customs authorities to seize all copies of the Newsweek issue as it contains material which can incite religious sentiments," Rashid said, adding that the objectionable article on page 40 was about the Holy Quran. He said there was freedom of expression in Pakistan but the government expected the media to be careful about the religious sensitivities of the Muslim people.
Other than that, we have perfect freedom of expression. Except for turban jokes, of course... And titties. No titties...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 17:15 ||
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#1
"it contains material which can incite religious sentiments"
In other fake news today, McDonald's pulled its ads from the international version of Newsweek.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 17:54 Comments ||
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#2
titties? ? ahem....where?
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 18:50 Comments ||
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QUETTA, July 23: Police seized a huge quantity of arms and ammunition, including anti-aircraft and anti-tank guns, in Killi Turkman in the Dasht area of the Mastung district on Wednesday and arrested a man. "It is the biggest seizure of heavy arms and ammunition in the country," the inspector-general of police, Balochistan, Dr Shoaib Suddle, said at a press conference here. The police seized 195 Russian-made RPG-7 rockets, three 75mm recoilless guns, two 20mm guns, three 12.7mm anti-aircraft guns and thousands of rounds.
Ahah! RPGs! Elk season must be almost here! And the 12.7 mm â very good for ducks...
They also seized five bags of hashish, weighing 150kg.
"Like, wow, man! Lissen to the colors..."
The weapons, mostly of Russian origin, were dumped underground in the house of the accused, Mir Hazar Kurd, the IG said and added that a CID team had conducted the raid in the early hours of Wednesday on a tip-off.
"You wanta explain this little collection y'got here, Mir?"
He said the arms and ammunition had been smuggled from Afghanistan for terrorist activities. He said that during initial investigation some clues were found about the cache.
"Ahah! A clue! And what do you make of this, Suddle?"
"Sir, it looks like a discarded al-Qaeda identification card with Osama bin Laden's picture on it!"
"No, no! I mean this match head. Notice the way it only fired on one side? Could be very significant!"
Earlier, Chief Minister Jam Mir Mohammad Yousuf and Balochistan Assembly Deputy Speaker Mohammad Aslam Bhootani inspected the seized arms and ammunition at the provincial police officer's office. Talking to newsmen, the chief minister said the police had foiled a conspiracy to destabilize the country and the province by seizing the weapons. Replying to a question about the probability of the use of such weapons in sectarian attacks, he said the objective of the terrorists was to target installations like bridges.
"Elk. We were hunting elk. One really big buck was standing on the bridge, see?"
He said the weapons had been dumped by an organized group that wanted to use them for subversive acts to affect the life in the country. He said involvement of foreign hands in supplying such modern weapons could not be ruled out. Jam Yousaf conceded that terrorists felt that Balochistan was a haven for them but declared that his government would frustrate the designs of the conspirators and protect the lives of the citizens.
"Yes, Bhootani, I think this might be the work of... Samoans!"
Asked if such terrorist acts might pave the way for governor's rule in the province, he said that in that case the whole country would face a similar situation. He said the provincial government would announce reward to the officials involved in the raid.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 17:08 ||
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When it gets this close to the trading deadline almost everyone is caught up in the frenzy and becomes obsessed with who is getting whom. Even flight attendants can catch the trading bug.
On the Mets flight from Philadelphia to Montreal Tuesday night -- just hours after the Pirates had traded Kenny Lofton, Aramis Ramirez and Scott Sauerbeck -- there was an excited ruckus in the rear of the Mets charter.
One of the flight attendants came down and asked why they were so happy.
"We got Qusay and Uday," Al Leiter exclaimed.
"Iâm sorry," the flight attendant responded, "I donât know baseball. Are they any good?"
The players broke up in laughter.
"It was hysterical," Mike Piazza said. "It spread through the plane in a nano-second."
While not sure that it really was Saddamâs two sons in the building, the American troops finally assaulted the place, rather than settling in for a long siege, because they feared that there might be a secret escape tunnel that would enable whoever was in the building to escape. It was a tough call to make, as the two brothers could have provided a bonanza of information if taken alive. But the risk of losing them was real, and the decision was made to end the operation by having the troops fight their way into the fortified second story area where the four Iraqis were.
Would have been nice to have their live personages paraded through Baghdad before Nuremberg-style trials. Oh, well...
#1
here's an original idea: let's all be grateful for our good fortune in having the opportunity to rid the planet of these brutes,then heap gobs of praise on the troops that risked their lives to get it done. let's enjoy a success for a change rather than indulging in second-guessing from the comfort of our armchairs.
Posted by: mer ||
07/24/2003 21:24 Comments ||
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#2
let's enjoy a success for a change rather than indulging in second-guessing from the comfort of our armchairs.
In my book, they made the right decision. But as with all imperfect endings, that's never going to stop the woulda, shoulda, coulda kinds of wistful thinking.
#4
the American troops finally assaulted the place, rather than settling in for a long siege, because they feared that there might be a secret escape tunnel that would enable whoever was in the building to escape.
Members of the Special Investigative Unit of the Iraqi Police Service closed the offices of Al Mustaqila newspaper, and took into custody the newspaperâs office manager. Al Mustaqila published on 13 July a clearly inciteful article entitled âDeath to all spies and those who cooperate with the US; killing them is religious dutyâ.
Hey, what's freedumb of the press without the right to incite to violence?
The Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) supports and encourages the development of a free and responsible Iraqi press. Most new Iraqi newspapers, free to publish for the first time without government editorial control, are doing so responsibly, and in a manner which supports the development of freedom and democracy in Iraq.
"We hate Americans" = okay.
"We hate Americans, we must kill them all!" = not okay.
How complicated is that?
However, al Mustiqila newspaper has chosen to threaten the basic human rights of Iraqi citizens, especially the right to life and the right to live without fear or threat. The CPA and the Iraqi Police Service therefore judged that al Mustaqila poses a significant security threat to Iraqi citizens, placing it in violation of international humanitarian law, as well as in breach of CPA Order no 14 (âTowards a free Iraqi pressâ). The head of the Special Investigative Unit, Brigadier-General Ahmed Ibrahim, said immediately after the arrest: âThe Iraqi Police Service will not tolerate behaviour on the part of any individual, group or movement that incites violence directed at any Iraqi citizen, government employee or the coalition forces. This type of activity is a violation of the law and the Iraqi Police Service will simply not tolerate it. We will take swift action to investigate and bring to justice those who are involved in this type of subversive action.â
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 17:44 ||
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#1
Al- Muscatel ? I'm all for that!...oh,wait..my bad
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 18:35 Comments ||
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#2
Al Mus-Tequila Mustaqila?
Hey, we're just exploring the edges of the envelope.
Hmm...found that edge, bad edge, try another edge, no more chances? WTF?
Hey that's my press, come back with my press! [Damn, need to Jihad, but these cuffs and leg chains are cramping my style]
Hey, I just printed pictures of Uday and Qasay dead, theyre on page 4!
Hey!
Ouch!
Damn!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/24/2003 18:56 Comments ||
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#3
I think the denizens of Baghdad could use a few Tequila shots, or Mezcal. Can we get Mexican Peace Keeping forces in there? Linguistic note: in Mexico, they actually use "Tequila" as a verb, To tequila = tequilarse. Tengo que tequilarme = Al-mustaqila.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
07/24/2003 22:53 Comments ||
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Posted in its entireity because of all the elements that ring a bell with respect to the situation in Iraq:
The Werewolves were originally organised by the SS and the Hitler Youth as a diversionary operation on the fringes of the Third Reich, which were occupied by the Western Allies and the Soviets in the autumn of 1944. Some 5,000 -- 6,000 recruits were raised by the winter of 1944-45, but numbers rose considerably in the following spring when the Nazi Party and the Propaganda Ministry launched a popular call to arms, beseeching everybody in the occupied areas -- even women and children -- to launch themselves upon the enemy. In typical Nazi fashion, this expansion was not co-ordinated by the relevant bodies, which were instead involved in a bureaucratic war among themselves over control of the project. The result was that the movement functioned on two largely unrelated levels: the first as a real force of specially trained SS, Hitler Youth and Nazi Party guerrillas; the second as an outlet for casual violence by fanatics.
The Werewolves specialised in ambushes and sniping, and took the lives of many Allied and Soviet soldiers and officers -- perhaps even that of the first Soviet commandant of Berlin, General N.E. Berzarin, who was rumoured to have been waylaid in Charlottenburg during an incident in June 1945. Buildings housing Allied and Soviet staffs were favourite targets for Werewolf bombings; an explosion in the Bremen police headquarters, also in June 1945, killed five Americans and thirty-nine Germans. Techniques for harassing the occupiers were given widespread publicity through Werewolf leaflets and radio propaganda, and long after May 1945 the sabotage methods promoted by the Werewolves were still being used against the occupying powers.
Although the Werewolves originally limited themselves to guerrilla warfare with the invading armies, they soon began to undertake scorched-earth measures and vigilante actions against German `collaboratorsâ or `defeatistsâ. They damaged Germanyâs economic infrastructure, already battered by Allied bombing and ground fighting, and tried to prevent anything of value from falling into enemy hands. Attempts to blow up factories, power plants or waterworks occasionally provoked melees between Werewolves and desperate German workers trying to save the physical basis of their employment, particularly in the Ruhr and Upper Silesia.
Several sprees of vandalism through stocks of art and antiques, stored by the Berlin Museum in a flak tower at Friedrichshain, caused millions of dollars worth of damage and cultural losses of inestimable value. In addition, vigilante attacks caused the deaths of a number of small-town mayors and, in late March 1945, a Werewolf paratroop squad assassinated the Lord Mayor of Aachen, Dr Franz Oppenhoff, probably the most prominent German statesman to have emerged in the occupied fringes over the winter of 1944-45. This spate of killings, part of a larger Nazi terror campaign that consumed the Third Reich after the failed anti-Hitler putsch of July 20th, 1944, can be interpreted as a psychological retreat back into opposition, even while Nazi leaders were still clinging to their last few months of power.
Although the Werewolves managed to make themselves a nuisance to small Allied and Soviet units, they failed to stop or delay the invasion and occupation of Germany, and did not succeed in rousing the population into widespread opposition to the new order. The SS and Hitler Youth organisations at the core of the Werewolf movement were poorly led, short of supplies and weapons, and crippled by infighting. Their mandate was a conservative one of tactical harassment, at least until the final days of the war, and even when they did begin to envision the possibility of an underground resistance that could survive the Third Reichâs collapse, they had to contend with widespread civilian war-weariness and fear of enemy reprisals. In Western Germany, no one wanted to do anything that would diminish the pace of Anglo-American advance and possibly thereby allow the Red Army to push further westward.
Despite its failure, however, the Werewolf project had a huge impact, widening the psychological and spiritual gap between Germans and their occupiers. Werewolf killings and intimidation of `collaboratorsâ scared almost everybody, giving German civilians a clear glimpse into the nihilistic heart of Nazism. It was difficult for people working under threat of such violence to devote themselves unreservedly to the initial tasks of reconstruction. Worse still, the Allies and Soviets reacted to the movement with extremely tough controls, curtailing the right of assembly of German civilians. Challenges of any sort were met by collective reprisals -- especially on the part of the Soviets and the French. In a few cases the occupiers even shot hostages and cleared out towns where instances of sabotage occurred. It was standard practice for the Soviets to destroy whole communities if they faced a single act of resistance. In the eastern fringes of the `Greater Reichâ, now annexed by the Poles and the Czechoslovaks, Werewolf harassment handed the new authorities an excuse to rush the deportations of millions of ethnic Germans to occupied Germany.
Such policies were understandable, but they created an unbridgeable gulf between the German people and the occupation forces who had pledged to impose essential reforms. It was hard, in such conditions, for the occupiers to encourage reform, and even harder to persuade the Germans that it was necessary.
The important thing to note is that these sorts of attacks continued well into 1947.
Although, as Wolfowitz said in his news briefing, there's never been a resistance that had to pay people $500 to attack the occupiers. Until the Tikrit Thugocracy, that is.
#2
Collective reprisal is exactly what I have recommended on this board. It would work extremely well in Iraq due to the nature of the outgoing government.
So sez a writer for the AP, anyway...
By GEORGE GEDDA, Associated Press Writer
In theory, pursuing with intent to kill violates a long-standing policy banning political assassination. It was the misfortune of Saddam Hussein's sons, Odai and Qusai, that the Bush administration has not bothered to enforce the prohibition.
George's logic train's derailed here. It wasn't an assassination â it was a shootout. We had the heavy artillery...
The brothers were killed during a six-hour raid Tuesday at a palatial villa in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul by U.S. forces acting on a tip from an informant. They ranked just below their father in the deposed regime. Odai, in particular, had a reputation for brutality. Officials said people inside the villa opened fire first â but left little doubt what the U.S. troops hoped to accomplish. "We remain focused on finding, fixing, killing or capturing all members of the high-value target list," Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of coalition troops in Iraq, announcing the deaths of Odai and Qusai.
Doesn't make it an assassination, anymore than if we'd captured them, put them on trial, gotten a sentence, and hanged 'em...
The ban has been overlooked so often in recent years that some wonder why the administration doesn't simply declare the measure null and void.
But we've now changed the subject from Uday and Qusay to something else, while pretending we haven't...
Earlier this week, the U.S. administrator for Iraq, L. Paul Bremer, stated in unusually candid terms the administration's disregard for the assassination ban. Appearing on NBC TV's "Meet the Press," Bremer said U.S. officials presumed that Saddam was still alive and that American forces were trying to kill him. "The sooner we can either kill him or capture him, the better," Bremer said.
Still a different critter: Sammy's not a head of state anymore. He's in the same category as Pancho Villa, a bandido heading a gang of killers. The fact that he's trying to reestablish control in Iraq is beside the point. If he had a boat, he'd be a pirate. There's no rule against bumping off pirates...
Often in the past, officials resorted to winks and nods or other circumlocutions when asked about U.S. actions that gave the appearance of homicidal intent.
Another subject change...
Consider President Reagan's response when he was asked whether the bombing of Moammar Gadhafi's residence in 1986 constituted an effort to kill the Libyan leader. "I don't think any of us would have shed tears if that had happened," Reagan said.
But we didn't send a paid assassin to sneak up behind him and apply a garrotte. If he commits an act of war against us â in this case, bombing a disco because it was frequented by our troops â and we commit a retaliatory act of war, it's tough noogies if he's standing in the spot the bombs land. In this case, it was his daughter who was standing there. By the same token, had Hitler, Himmler or Goering been standing under one of the blockbusters that hit Berlin, it would have been tough nails for them...
Over the past five years, U.S.-sponsored assassination attempts have been on the increase. Targets have included Osama bin Laden, former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic among others.
Which others? Haven't heard about a hit on Milosevic. If George is referring to the bombing of Tora Bora, that, too was a military operation. What is it about military operations he doesn't understand?
Former White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said before the start of the Iraq war that the assassination ban would not apply once hostilities broke out. "People who are in charge of fighting the war to kill United States troops cannot assume that they will be safe," Fleischer said, making clear that Saddam would not be exempt.
Which is pretty much SOP when you're at war. Ask Admiral Yamamoto...
Bremer says the rationale for going after Saddam now even though he is no longer in power is that he remains a rallying point for supporters.
See pirate analogy above. I'm tired of repeating myself, even though George isn't...
The ban on assassinations, spelled out in an executive order signed by President Ford in 1976 and reinforced by Presidents Carter and Reagan, made no distinction between wartime and peacetime.
It made no distinctions among bovine and human, either. We continued bumping off beef cows...
There are no loop holes; no matter how awful the leader, he could not be a U.S. target either directly or by a hired hand.
Which is really too bad, since the world would be better off without Chuck, Bob and a few dozen others...
The advantages of using assassination as a political tool seemed less obvious a generation ago than they are today.
I guess Skorzeny must be two generations back now, huh?
Ford's executive order was in response to the general revulsion over disclosures by a Senate committee about a series of overseas U.S. assassination attempts â some successful, some not â over many years. The committee found eight attempts on the life of Cuban President Fidel Castro. Other targets included Rafael Trujillo of the Dominican Republic and Patrice Lumumba of the Congo, both in 1961; and Ngo Dinh Diem of South Vietnam in 1963. Lumumba and Diem were both assassinated, although the degree of U.S. involvement has never been clear.
But George is sure it musta been us...
One rationale for the ban was that an attempt on the life of a foreign leader could produce retaliation â a concern borne out in U.S.-Libyan tit-for-tat attacks during the late 1980's. Libyan agents killed two U.S. soldiers at a German disco in early April 1986. Days later, Reagan authorized the bombing of Libya; Gadhafi was spared but his 15-month old daughter was killed. Libyan agents were behind the bombing of Pan Am flight 103 in 1988, killing 270, most of them Americans.
I think he has his tits and tats mixed up...
Support for the assassination ban appears to have eroded considerably after Sept. 11, 2001. The events of that day demonstrated that a small but determined group, no matter how far away, could pose a greater threat to ordinary Americans than the German Luftwaffe could in 1940. Abraham Sofaer, a former State Department legal adviser, makes the case for pre-emption against terrorists: "If a leader ... is responsible for killing Americans, and is planning to kill more Americans ... it would be perfectly proper to kill him rather than to wait until more Americans were killed." The Bush administration seems to agree, but the old assassination taboo lives on, at least on paper. "There's an executive order that prohibits the assassination of foreign leaders, and that remains in place," a White House spokesman said just as the Iraq hostilities were about to begin. George Gedda has covered foreign affairs for The Associated Press since 1968.
Maybe you should think about retirement, George...
#1
The ban of which everyone is speaking is an Executive Order by President Ford. I am not sure of the legalities, but I think suceeding Presidients can ignore, remove, or change executive orders as they wish. I don't think it covers people who start shooting first.
#3
Ahah. The same way we targeted Sammy during GWII...
Posted by: Fred ||
07/24/2003 16:11 Comments ||
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#4
How do idiots such as GG find their way to the bathroom in the mornings? Or know what to do when they get there?
Too stupid to live should be a valid diagnosis!
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/24/2003 16:17 Comments ||
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#5
Odd that this was not marked as an editorial or opinion piece. It clearly is.
As the administration stated repeatedly at the start of the Liberation of Iraq, military commanders are legitimate targets. Both "Oboy!" and "Youboy!" commanded military units that engaged and are engaging in combat operations against us.
My guess is that Bush has signed a special finding that the executive order does not apply in this case. Quite legal and proper.
#6
Here we go with the left's tried and true tactic of trying to minimize another military success, perverting the facts to fit their twisted argument and then rambling on to another subject to try and "steal the thunder".
Loser from Planet Left Alert!!!
Posted by: Paul ||
07/24/2003 17:10 Comments ||
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#7
I'm still waiting for the loony left to carry this kind of thinking to its logical conclusion and inaugurate the International Criminal Gendarmerie (I think it has a rather European flavor to it, no?) to go along with the International Criminal Court. I picture them in nice blue tunics with those pill box hats like the French wear -- maybe some nice cavalry boots too... with lots of straps. Then they can take their International Search Warrants and International Arrest Warrants and fly around the world in search of International Criminals. Of course the warrants never get issued because Cuba and Syria chair that committee, but that's a minor detail. The point is that they'll look good in those snappy uniforms and the lefty nutjobs will be happy because they've struck another hammer blow in the name of peace. And every decade or so, a warrant will somehow slip through, and a new guy will be on duty that night, who doesn't know he's supposed to ignore it anyway. He'll fly off to Upper Revolta, where he'll immediately be hacked to death by a machete wielding crowd of rebels/loyalists/lingerie wearing mercenaries. And everyone at Rantburg will have a good chuckle.
EFL - Read the Whole Thing, and Congrats to Steven den Beste for getting in the big time!
We Wonât Back Down
The real reason weâre in Iraq--and why we weâll stay.
BY STEVEN DEN BESTE
Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT
Opponents of American foreign policy in Iraq are attempting to focus the entire debate on one small and extremely unimportant event. Theyâre trying to claim that the inclusion of one specific sentence in this yearâs State of the Union address is the total political issue, and since that sentence appears to have been based on faulty intelligence, they are trying to claim that this somehow shakes the entire foundation of the case for war.
In fact, the real reason we went into Iraq was precisely to "nation build": to create a secularized, liberated, cosmopolitan society in a core Arab nation. To create a place where Arabs were free and safe and unafraid and happy and successful and not ruled by corrupt monarchs or brutal dictators. This would demonstrate to the other people in the Arab and Muslim worlds that they can succeed, but only if they abandon those political, cultural and religious chains that are holding them back.
We are not doing this out of altruism. We are not trying to give them a liberalized Western democracy because weâre evangelistic liberal democrats (with both liberal and democrat taking historical meanings). We are bringing reform to Iraq out of narrow self-interest. We have to foster reform in the Arab/Muslim world because itâs the only real way in the long run to make them stop trying to kill us.
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 1:51:53 PM ||
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#1
Hail to the Blog! The extinction of the old media continues, congrats to SDB.
I expect to see some Rantburgers hit the big-time soon...
Posted by: eric ||
07/24/2003 14:17 Comments ||
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BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Pictures of the bodies of Saddam Husseinâs sons Uday and Qusay, seen by Reuters on Thursday, show the face and torso of the two feared brothers who are recognizable despite facial injuries suffered by Uday.
A U.S. military source showed two photographs of Uday and two of Qusay to an Iraqi Reuters reporter who was familiar with the appearance of both men.
Uday appeared clearly recognizable despite a wound that destroyed part of his nose and upper lip. Qusayâs face did not show any sign of wounds.
Saddamâs sons died on Tuesday when 200 U.S. troops attacked their hideout in the northern city Mosul with helicopters, grenades, heavy machineguns and anti-tank missiles.
U.S. military officers said Uday appeared to have been killed by a bullet in the head, but it was not yet known whether he had been shot by U.S. soldiers or had committed suicide.
If you want to see the pictures, follow the link, or go to feedroom.com for video.
#6
Look, we killed them, no doubt. I see similarities to their real life selves, but I'm not the one to be convinced. What about other photos? Couldn't our guys have shaved them? Those beards make them look like Saudi Mutawas/Afghan Arabs. I just hope we have other stuff that will convince the Governing Council.
Posted by: Michael ||
07/24/2003 16:19 Comments ||
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#7
Well, it looks to me like they might be playing possum. Let's run them through Uday's shredder just to be on the safe side.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/24/2003 19:16 Comments ||
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There goes the neighborhood.
A day after U.S. forces waged a fierce gunbattle that ended with the bodies of Saddam Husseinâs two eldest sons being carried out of a villa here, both the ruined house and the anger of neighbors still smoldered.
Most residents of the upscale al-Falah neighborhood where the U.S. raid took place said they were surprised Uday Hussein, 39, and his brother Qusay, 37, had been living in their midst. Many expressed sympathy for the old regime, but whether they were talking out of love or fear of the Baathists was not known. They were very quiet men. Kept to themselves. Always said hello in the morning...
ââThese are the presidentâs sons. We love them. We love Saddam Hussein,ââ said Arfan Khalid, 28, a shopkeeper. ââThose who reported their hideout to the Americans, I will slaughter them with my bare hands.ââ Suuuuuuure you will...
The house where the brothers died was owned by Nawaf al-Zaydan Muhhamad, who claimed to be a cousin of Saddam.U.S. officials say an Iraqi informant tipped off soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division that the brothers were hiding in the yellow- and maroon-tiled villa. Iâve heard that it was the gracious houseguest cousin. So I guess heâs your boy, Arfan.
The United States had offered a $15 million reward for information leading to the capture of either man. The informant is expected to collect $30 million for leading U.S. forces to both sons -- a vast sum in a country where the average Iraqi income is the equivalent of $2,500 a year. Will they drive up like Publishers Clearing House with the big cardboard check for 30 mil?
When a small contingent of soldiers arrived in the neighborhood Tuesday morning, residents said they expected a routine weapons search. After the occupants of the villa refused to let the soldiers inside, the patrol withdrew and called for reinforcements. An hour later, dozens of soldiers surrounded the house.Army psychological operations soldiers speaking in Arabic and using loudspeakers asked whether any women or children were inside and ordered everyone to come out. Muhhamad and his son emerged with their hands on their heads. No one followed. Military officials said people in the villa shot when the soldiers tried to enter the home. Residents said U.S. troops were first to shoot. All agree, however, that it was a ferocious fight.
The arrival of helicopter gunships turned the tide, Iraqis who watched the battle said. The gunships fired missiles at the villa, and the shooting from inside stopped. Thatâll do it.
ââThese are martyrs. They went to paradise,ââ farmer Muhammed Ibrahim, 35, said of Qusay and Uday. ââThe Americans are heathens. We sympathize with our Muslim brothers.ââ Feel free to point out anyone who wishes to join them, Farmer Mo. Including yourself if you want.
Others were glad to be rid of Saddamâs heirs.Two doors down from the villa, Elham Ibrahim Al-Katib, 50, said she hid in her home with her four children as rocket fragments and bullets splattered her steel gate.ââI felt that death was around us,ââ she said. Still, ââIt is really a victory for the Iraqis, killing these two guys.ââ So I guess not everbody in the neighborhood weâre big fans.
Most people in the neighborhood east of the Tigris River had no idea Uday and Qusay were holed up next door. But one neighbor had an inkling something was up. Mahmood Fawzi, 23, a computer engineer who lives three blocks from the villa, said his sister told him last Thursday that she saw Qusay driving a gray BMW with Tikrit license plates. ââWe thought it was a joke,ââ he said. Wonder if it had an "I Brake For Babes" bumper sticker on it?
But Fawzi noticed unusual things. The wife and children of Muhhamad, the villaâs owner, suddenly left. He also noticed that Muhhamad, who watered his lawn every day, stopped coming out to his garden. Uday and Qusay starring in "The Things That Wouldnât Leave".
Iraqis stared Wednesday at soldiers guarding the villa behind barbed wire while military investigators searched inside. There was little left of the house. One of its three front pillars was shorn nearly in half. Aluminum window frames hung from gaping holes.Army civil affairs soldiers roamed the neighborhood, assessing damage to homes and promising compensation. US dollars! Get your US dollars here!!!
ââWe explained that we tried to get them to come out peacefully, but they made it clear that they wanted to fight,ââ said Army Spc. Samantha Ward, 32, of El Paso. We can do that. Any gunships around?
The home of Abdul Jawad Saleh, 45, and his wife, Yamama Abdul Wahab, 42, is directly behind the battered villa.Almost every window in their house had been shattered and every wall cracked.
ââThis is the work of the Americans,ââ said Saleh, as glass crunched beneath his feet in a hallway. The retired Iraqi air force general said, ââThis was not militarily necessary. They used too much force.ââ Since heâs a retired Iraqi Air Force general, Iâd probably take anything he has to say about military necessity with a truckload of salt. Hereâs your check, get lost.
Posted by: tu3031 ||
07/24/2003 10:36:42 AM ||
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#1
Saddam's henchmen are still on the loose - if the press wants a for-attribution quote, what the heck do they expect to get? There is no downside to saying negative things about American troops - we don't kill people based on what they say. Saddam's goons do - so the bias is going to be all one way - anti-American.
It's what statisticians call selection bias due to a combination of several things - (1) most journalists are anti-American and want to demoralize the American public, not to mention gloat at American failure, (2) Iraqis supporting Saddam are willing to speak for attribution because there is no downside and potential rewards from Saddam for helping his cause and (3) Iraqis supporting the US are unwilling to speak for attribution because of fear of Saddam's goons. Hence all the negative feedback.
#2
As noted before, this house is in a pricey, upscale neighborhood. The houseowner was living off "slop from the Hussein trough", and he's got a retired Iraqi Air Force general as a neighbor. Any fretting and fuming from these assclowns needs to be taken with a grain of salt, 'cause their glory days are over.
Posted by: Dar ||
07/24/2003 10:52 Comments ||
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#3
I know this is entertainment, so in that spirit... Just the juicy Iraqi quotes - which speak volumes...
"Those who reported their hideout to the Americans, I will slaughter them with my bare hands."
"These are martyrs. They went to paradise," farmer Muhammed Ibrahim, 35, said of Qusay and Uday. "The Americans are heathens. We sympathize with our Muslim brothers."
"This is the work of the Americans," said Saleh, as glass crunched beneath his feet in a hallway. The retired Iraqi air force general said, "This was not militarily necessary. They used too much force."
Sweet. And that's a wrap.
BTW, I think the Iraqi AF Gen'l prolly retired at the beginning of Gulf War I. To stay in business, he would've needed to defect to Iran.
#4
Time to start rumors that the brothers were incestuous sadomasichistic gay lovers. That one of them apparantly committed suicide when he realized they'd been found out (he was the one found wearing a bra and panties by the 101st).
Time to taint the martyrs with a good dose of American Jerry Springer style bullcrap. Might give the Iraqi people a laugh to degrade the villianous bastards.
#6
whether they were talking out of love or fear of the Baathists was not known.
Both. They wouldn't be living in the upscale al-Falah neighborhood if they were Saddam's official opposition in Iraq's parliament. Even if Sammy was killed, they would have to give him a complete physical exam before they believed it.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 11:40 Comments ||
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#7
ZF: Good analysis. I would add that reporters are too lazy to learn Arabic and that most Iraqis that are educated enough to speak English probably are Baathists or had Baath ties.
#8
"These are martyrs. They went to paradise," farmer Muhammed Ibrahim, 35, said of Qusay and Uday.
Call 'em anything you want and believe anything you want, pal, as long as they're dead.
Attention All Journalists: I'm not impressed by how many ignorant fools you can find to interview, or by what they say.
Posted by: Tom ||
07/24/2003 12:13 Comments ||
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#9
There may also be an element of self-parody involved, in the sense that interviewees are tweaking the reporters by deliberately exaggerating the pro-Saddam rhetoric. Since it's unsafe to say anything against Saddam, Iraqis providing interviews may be providing quotes so overblown that the reader has to conclude they're making fun of gullible reporters.
#10
Interestingly enough, the American allegedly trucked in some Iraqis to disperse the chanting, pro-Saddam crowd according to this WP article: The protesters dispersed without incident after the Americans trucked in several dozen Iraqis in civilian clothes and armed with wooden clubs. They seemed friendly and their presence was enough to disperse the crowd as the call to prayers went up from the nearby mosque.
Posted by: Dar ||
07/24/2003 14:35 Comments ||
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#11
several dozen Iraqis in civilian clothes and armed with wooden clubs.
"That's no wooden club, it's a truncheon!"
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 14:43 Comments ||
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#12
The NY Times reported Wednesday that the cousin had done time in prison for asserting his relationship to Hussein.
#13
I think it's about time to instill a little fear into the Iraqi psyche. I think we should remove all the people from Fallajah, and start sending B-52's over, armed with "dumb" 500lb bombs - one every 20 minutes, for about eight days. After that, let the people back into "their" city. After they see the rubble "up close and personal", ask them how much they "love" sadsack. Tell them that if there's any more trouble, we won't remove the people the next time we feel the need to engage in urban 'renewal'.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/24/2003 18:56 Comments ||
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#14
OP, what happened to the smile and the candybar???
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 19:02 Comments ||
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#15
"They're dead Jim."
Posted by: Dr. McCoy ||
07/24/2003 19:15 Comments ||
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#16
Captain, I must concur with the doctor on this. I tried doing a Vulcan mind link, and it didn't work. They are most definitely dead.
Posted by: Mr. Spock ||
07/24/2003 19:27 Comments ||
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#17
Captain, I usin' full warp power! And they are still dead! The engines can't take anymore!
U.S. military and CIA officers in Iraq are receiving and trying to verify a significant increase in the number of Saddam Hussein sightings by Iraqi citizens, according to a senior administration decision maker. "We are getting a lot of different sightings every day," the official said.
"Look! There he goes again!"
"That ain't Sammy. It's Elvis."
"Is not. Elvis don't have a moustache!"
"Yeah? Well Sammy don't have no fake moustache!"
The killing of the former Iraqi president's sons, Uday and Qusay, on Tuesday by U.S. troops reinforced the view within U.S. intelligence agencies that Hussein is alive and still in Iraq. U.S. intelligence officials yesterday expressed optimism that the finding of Hussein is imminent. "Saddam is further isolated," one official said. "Others will see that the regime is truly falling apart. There are fewer places he can hide with impunity."
And there's money to be made...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 05:54 ||
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#1
Oh how I wish it were me that bagged Saddam.... I'd start by giving $1 mill to Fred to keep up Rantburg. Loved that story the other day about Private Heather running down the six of clubs. That was worth a cool mill.
#2
Uday's & Qusay's biggest mistake was not making the effort to invest in a few look-alikes, or doubles. See how it's paying off now for daddy? Guess nowadays you just can't teach these kids nutin'!! Listen to your parents!! (I feel sorry for Sammy's doubles though)
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 11:53 Comments ||
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#3
It'll be a short time before someone drops the dime on Sammy ($25 million) . Qusay and Uday look lovely in their death photos, fit for heirs to Sammy's future. I kinda hope they take him alive tho'. Once Iraqis, Baathist and not, realize this is over, someone'll wanna be a ($25) millionaire!
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 12:10 Comments ||
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#4
Rumors have been flying all over about where Sammy makes his postwar digs. I keep hearing rumblings about Syria. Donno, just an uneducated hunch.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/24/2003 13:50 Comments ||
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#5
except that: word is Uday and bodyguard et al were in Syria and got kicked out when the heat was turned up. Sammy's an even bigger fish and we keep finding/confiscating his rat-holes filled with money, he's losing his appeal to anyone hiding him
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 14:19 Comments ||
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#6
For the average Iraqi, filing a report about a Saddam sighting is like buying a lottery ticket with a billion dollar jackpot (given current low Iraqi incomes). The great thing about this Iraqi lotto is that you can buy as many tickets as you want without paying a single dime.
Top Pentagon adviser Richard Perle said here Tuesday that US troops could not leave Iraq while a band of what he said were some 30,000 armed supporters of Saddam Hussein's fallen regime remained active. He added that Washington has a generally positive view of President Vladimir Putin â who opposed the Iraq war â but would in the future judge the Russian leader on his actions rather than his public pronouncements. "There were of course many reasons for starting the war in Iraq," Perle told reporters when asked about US and British troops' failure to find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq more than three months after the campaign began. "We are clearly starting to see that up to 300,000 people were killed and buried" by Saddam's regime, he said. Perle added that "we are absolutely certain" that weapons of mass destruction are hidden in Iraq â Washington's motive for launching the offensive against Baghdad â but that it may take dozens of years to find them. "We don't know where to look for them and we never did know where to look for them," he admitted. Asked by a reporter when he thought the evidence of those weapons may be found, Perle joked: "I hope this will take less than 200 years."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 05:38 ||
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#1
"judge the Russian leader on his actions rather than his public pronouncements"
It's about fucking time. In fact, apply this to everyone.
Pres Putty, who fancies himself a master spy & strategist, sex symbol & pop idol, and probably Premier & President-for-Life, is a myopic self-absorbed egotistical moron who has severely harmed the interests of his country through asinine mishandling and mismanagement of Russian foreign policy, domestic policy, security, and future prospects. If the Russian people ever pull their adoring heads out of their asses and flush this turd, they should give the US a call. Until then, Dubya would be wise to let this fool stew in his own borscht.
#3
Anon1 - Amen. I had very high hopes for Russia - and Prez Putty looked like he had the skillset (ex-KGB & "smart" I thought) to rapidly bring them out of the "roaring 20's" gangster daze. Wrong. He seems to have done almost nothing domestically to turn things around. If the Russians weren't naturally stoic, they'd have hung him, by now.
Internationally, he's failed to control nuke tech and other sensitive tech worth a tinker's damn, he's lied to Dubya's face and 6 months later stabbed him in the back, tried to play Sov Union-style power games at the UN and rebuffed the US companies who've offered some sweet deals to develop the vast resources of Siberia - as well as foot a big chunk of the bill to rehab his oil industry infrastructure, which is falling apart. OPEC needn't fear Russia - they aren't fixing their gear and production levels are dropping.
As for the post, an on-topic response is that Perle seems to be too happy to take the reporter seriously. Hey, he got what he wanted and knows the fallout is typical ankle-biting poitics that will result in nothing significant.
#4
Well, since i dont often get to gloat can i at least point out that I NEVER much liked Putin - didnt think being ex-kgb was a great qual, and never understood Dubyas closeness to him.
I kinda liked Yeltsin. I guess im just tolerant of unfit, undisciplined leaders who waffle.
#6
In my humble opinion Putin should have: (1) Given that handful of Islands back to Japan in exchange for financing a major upgrade to the transiberian railway. (2) Taken a real good look at what made Hong Kong and Singapore so wealthy and tried to duplicate it in Vladivostok. and St. Petersburg. (3) Sold half of the rusty Russian nuclear fleet and as much of the nuclear arsenal as possible to the US so that the Yanks could clean up the mess and be happy an environmental disaster and doing something about nuclear proliferation while putting a lot of hard currency into Russian banks. (4) Sided with the US during the War on Terror to help justify the brutality in Chechnya.
#7
LH - I couldn't have said it any better lol. Proves you've got a good sense of humor ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 12:15 Comments ||
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#8
Weapons, weapons, weapons. Why cancha findem U.S.?
Well, what if, for instance, they're buried in cemetaries ? Who's gonna be the one to dig up a few thousand gravesites to find chemicals ?
Oops, wrong one. Sah-wee dead people. They could be (and are) f**king anywhere. STFU about the GD weapons.
Welcome aboard, mates! Good luck, good hunting, and Godspeed.
Amid ongoing Iraqi renegade attacks against US troops, the advance party of a Dutch contingent deployed to Iraq as part of the British-led stabilisation force departed for the war-torn nation from bordering Kuwait on Tuesday night.
The Dutch Cabinet decided on 6 June to contribute to the international stabilisation force for Iraq and the Parliament backed the deployment on 25 June (Thanks, we wonât forget!)
The intention is that the Netherlands will take up active peacekeeping duties in Iraq from 1 August, taking over from US forces in the al-Muthanna province. The transfer of command will be relayed to residents via a local broadcaster. The troopsâ priority is to maintain stability in the region and give the local administration the chance to organise itself. Dubbed Sfir, the Dutch contingent will consist in total of 1,100 soldiers, the heart of which will be made up of a battalion of 650 marines. They will be supported by a company of the engineering corps, a field hospital, military police and three Chinook transport helicopters and armoured transports and are expected to remain in Iraq for six months.
Posted by: seafarious ||
07/24/2003 12:53:05 AM ||
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oh well atleast it wont be only us dying....Nicaraguans are about to get into this mess too....when an American convoy is attacked help comes in seconds...but when the nicaraguans get ambushed it will take days for a response...first they gotta get gas,fix a couple of flat tyres...then read some map....yes we will give them money but the bureaucracy in south America will pockets it
#2
Is it me or isn't dear Stanley mellowing out lately? I'd guess it reads Rb every day, secretly likes it, and may be starting to get influenced. Very soon, it will no longer be a troll, but a productive member of your american vast right wing conspiracy. It's probably not even aware of this fortunate transformation. So sad.
#5
Do we have any reason to believe that the Dutch will do better here than they did in Yugoslavia? Can we check their orders to see if they're allowed to have live ammunition?
Posted by: Annoying Old Guy ||
07/24/2003 16:11 Comments ||
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon announced a plan on Wednesday to replace weary military personnel in Iraq with fresh American and international troops in the coming months, with most U.S. soldiers facing yearlong deployments. The long-awaited troop-rotation plan for the postwar stabilization force in Iraq features the first-ever deployment of a new Army brigade built around the high-tech "Stryker" armored vehicle, and also calls for activating thousands more Army National Guard soldiers. The Armyâs 3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) will be sent home in September and replaced by elements of the 82nd Airborne Division, acting Army Chief of Staff Gen. Jack Keane told a Pentagon briefing. Read the rest of the article for a more detailed description of the rotation plan.
Posted by: 11A5S ||
07/24/2003 12:18:53 AM ||
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main piece fo good news - recruitment and retention are strong.
EFL
The United States will release photographs of Saddam Husseinâs sons taken after they were killed by American missiles as they resisted arrest in an effort to convince Iraqis they are truly dead. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in Washington on Wednesday the pictures would be made public "soon" but did not say how explicitly they would show Udayâs and Qusayâs fatal injuries. U.S. troops killed them in a raid in the city of Mosul Tuesday.
Go ahead and show them. It's an old Iraqi tradition. A coup or two before Sammy took over, the new regime abused the corpse of the previous leader on live teevee for three days. By the time they finally cut to Gilligan's Island, everybody was convinced the poor guy was dead...
Another U.S. official told Reuters that he had seen photographs in which the men were recognizable despite wounds. "They are pretty bad," the official said of pictures.
If we don't show the gore, we'll be accused of doctoring their school pictures...
Yet in the streets of Baghdad and other Iraqi cities, where people have grown up with the official lies and manipulated media of the Saddam decades, people are still not convinced that the former ruling family is really gone — and as a result are looking for greater proof from Washington.
Posted by: 11A5S ||
07/24/2003 12:03:44 AM ||
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hey...seeing is believing right...my right wing friends.....
#2
No matter how repulsive it might be to others, the audience that needs convincing is Arab. Therefore, the proof must be so overwhelming as to make the willfullyblind see.
#3
Hoo boy, this isn't going to be fun. Showing the death photos of Uday and Qusay is something we've absolutely got to do, despite our cultural revulsion, because the Iraqi people need to see visual evidence that their oppressors are dead.
But within microseconds of when those photos hit the streets of Baghdad, every Democratic Party presidential candidate will be in front of TV cameras, denouncing the Bush administration for its barbaric bloodthirstiness. I can just hear it already: "George W. Bush- not much better than Saddam, is he? A vote for Howard Dean is a vote for a return to decency." or some such. Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd will make pompous speeches. Terry MacAuliffe will make snarky comments about Republican immorality.
No, this is not going to be pretty.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/24/2003 6:21 Comments ||
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To tell the truth I've never understood this "cultural revulsion" bit about showing dead bodies... Perhaps it's more of a US-cultural revulsion than a Western-civilisation cultural revulsion? I think I had commented about this, in an earlier thread a couple months back, either here or in another forum, when I didn't much understand why several Americans were angry with the Iraqis showing the dead bodies of Americans, as if it was somehow worse than the actual killing itself.
After all some funerals are still open-casket, aren't there. Ah, well... I guess it's the whole "each culture is different" thin". But yeah, I think in this case it'd be good if the photos were made available for all Iraqis to see.
#5
Aris: I think it might be an anglo tradition the cultural revulsion with death. My mum is of Greek extraction and in her side of the family, open caskets are also the go.
I like it, I think it's healthy to see death. But interestingly I reckon there is an inverse relationship between the amount of gore in pop culture and the amount of familiarity with death in that culture. It is such a taboo here in the west (i think) that it has become a scary demon to exorcise in movies, hence the amount of deaths on the screen. Nobody ever sees it in real life, so they are mega curious about anything to do with death.
That's my theory!
Yep show us all the bodies, I would like to see those two dead as a dodo, they surely don't deserve to be walking around using up oxygen.
#6
Well the idea of showing dead bodies, like all things, depends on the context. In a casket is one thing but at the scene of violent death is another. Showing people shot or bombed to death (or even wounded) is gruesome, even if it's done as documentation. But documenting the realities of war is one thing. Brandishing dead bodies for propaganda purposes is another thing entirely.
I'm surprised that Aris cannot understand why Al-Jazeera showing dead American servicemen would piss off Americans. It's pretty obvious that for a large part of their audience, this was "brandishing" and not "documenting". Americans were rightfully disgusted when we see such sights as the Daniel Pearl video or when our soldiers were dragged through the streets of Mogadishu on international tv broadcasts. We do not regard the Jihadi snuff videos (mostly featuring hapless Russian soldiers) that flood the Islamic Blockbuster Home Video stores as acceptable different cultural viewing standards. It's incitement and it's barbaric.
It's perfectly natural to have reservations about showing Uday and Qusay. If you have to do it - then do it. Being labeled a hypocrite is sometimes the price one pays.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
07/24/2003 7:45 Comments ||
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It's mostly cultural, I think, and it's a point where America's diverged a bit from Europe. We have a (mostly unspoken) taboo against displaying real death, despite the fictitious deaths in the movies, that's stronger than the European aversion. We're curious about it because we virtually never see it in real life unless we're in the medical professions (and not all of them), cops, military, or undertakers.
The gap between the West in general and the Arabs in particular is even wider -- Arabs as a culture aren't what y'd call really empathetic. Death and pain are still a matter of spectacle, rather than something to be hidden away.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/24/2003 8:24 Comments ||
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#8
Aris - I respect your response. I think Tokyo Taro hit the nail on the head regards Americans. Surprising, or not, the vast majority of Americans are not bloodthirsty subhumans - and have never killed anyone, ever, and do not revel in any other person's death. Relief is what most will feel regards the Hussein thugs, as they will never harm anyone else again.
We're not deluding ourselves or avoiding death, either - we've done a hell of a lot of killing - of ourselves and others. For Americans, sticking our fingers into the bullet holes does not make the deaths any more real - just as a closed casket does not make the death any less real.
#9
My dad got a whole set of Time-Life books on WWII years ago. Still got them and was looking at the one on the Italian campaign. Mussolini looked a whole lot better when he was strung upsidedown on those meat hooks than when he was taken down. One woman actually pumped 5 rounds into his corpse for each son who had died in his army. Bodies were put into wooden caskets and Ben's face was all squished and darkened with eyes open. Not quite your normal open-casket affair, but the public got to review his body as well as mistress and another crony. They knew he was out of the picture. Give us the pictures now and no make-up, please. This is no ordinary situation.
Posted by: Michael ||
07/24/2003 9:06 Comments ||
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#10
It is such a taboo here in the west (i think) that it has become a scary demon to exorcise in movies, hence the amount of deaths on the screen.
The body count in the papers as well as in the movies is far higher outside of the West. The stuff we see is nothing compared to what they show in Hong Kong or Japanese movies, for example. Check out an East Asian video sometime - they show R ratings for footage that I think should be labeled NC-17 for extremely raw violence. Hollywood movies are violent only compared to what went on before, which was PG-rated. Non-Western foreign movies have always been violent - sometimes in stomach-churning ways. I don't think we'll ever catch up to them, because Hollywood liberals are too squeamish. (The foreign media also aired and printed extremely gory aspects of the 9/11 bombings, including photos of people in the aftermath of going splat).
#11
I didn't much understand why several Americans were angry with the Iraqis showing the dead bodies of Americans
We view the showing of bodies as spectacle to be equivalent to mutilation and desecration. And that's not going to change - we're not going view these thing in the so-called Arab context (any more than we're going to accept the rape of our women by Muslims because Muslims think they dress like whores, or take terror attacks as a sign that we must submit to their wishes). I guess our enemies are too stupid to realize that they're pushing our hot buttons when they do things like that.
This classic article by Walter Russell Mead offers some good answers for Europeans like Aris and TGA.
"Indeed, of all the major currents in American society, Jacksonians have the least regard for international law and international institutions. They prefer the rule of custom to the written law, and that is as true in the international sphere as it is in personal relations at home. Jacksonians believe that there is an honor code in international lifeâas there was in clan warfare in the borderlands of Englandâand those who live by the code will be treated under it. But those who violate the codeâwho commit terrorist acts in peacetime, for exampleâforfeit its protection and deserve no consideration.
Many students of American foreign policy, both here and abroad, dismiss Jacksonians as ignorant isolationists and vulgar patriots, but, again, the reality is more complex, and their approach to the world and to war is more closely grounded in classical realism than many recognize. Jacksonians do not believe that the United States must have an unambiguously moral reason for fighting. In fact, they tend to separate the issues of morality and war more clearly than many members of the foreign policy establishment."
Specifically about the Hussein brothers:
"Jacksonian society draws an important distinction between those who belong to the folk community and those who do not. Within that community, among those bound by the code and capable of discharging their responsibilities under it, Jacksonians are united in a social compact. Outside that compact is chaos and darkness. The criminal who commits what, in the Jacksonian code, constitute unforgivable sins (cold-blooded murder, rape, the murder or sexual abuse of a child, murder or attempted murder of a peace officer) can justly be killed by the victimsâ families, colleagues or by society at largeâwith or without the formalities of law. In many parts of the United States, juries will not convict police on almost any charge, nor will they condemn revenge killers in particularly outrageous cases. The right of the citizen to defend family and property with deadly force is a sacred one as well, a legacy from colonial and frontier times."
The article, BTW, is from the Fall/Winter 2000 issue.
Posted by: Ernest Brown ||
07/24/2003 11:42 Comments ||
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If liberal America finds the idea of corpses revolting, they shouldn't visit San Francisco. I have literally had to step over the discarded bodies of the homeless in her alleys. This, in a city which is held up as a shining example of that misguided political philosophy.
Hummm; come to think of it, so long as the dead are out of site.... it is a shining example, comrade!
#14
Ernest Brown--Excellent commentary--thanks for posting that! I'll be looking that up.
Posted by: Dar ||
07/24/2003 12:33 Comments ||
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"But within microseconds of when those photos hit the streets of Baghdad, every Democratic Party presidential candidate will be in front of TV cameras, denouncing the Bush administration for its barbaric bloodthirstiness"
Actually, Sen. Joe Lieberman has been busy denouncing his fellow Democrats for not showing enough strength on foreign policy.
DENPASAR, Bali: A prosecutor on Thursday demanded an 18-year jail term for a man accused of robbing a jewellery shop to finance the deadly Bali bombings. Prosecutor David Ajie told judges that Abdul Rauf, alias Sam, had been proven guilty of providing funds for terrorism and of robbery.
He's a terrorist and a crook. His Mom always said he was multi-talented...
Rauf, an acolyte of key suspect Imam Samudra, could face up to 20 years in jail if convicted of both crimes. Ajie said that because "the defendant is still young and can still repent," he sought a lesser sentence.
18 years instead of 20... Sounds good.
He accused Rauf of masterminding the robbery at Serang in west Java in August 2002 and setting off firecrackers nearby to divert attention from the crime. Three other men — Andi Hidayat, Andri Oktavia and Arnasan — allegedly stole 2.5 kilograms of gold and Rp 5 million (US$588) from the shop.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 17:29 ||
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JAKARTA: Leaders of the Indonesian Mujahidin Council (MMI) have requested the Central Jakarta district court allow Muslim cleric Abu Bakar Bashir to attend its second congress in Surakarta, Central Java, on Aug. 10 through Aug. 12.
Ummm... Lemme think. No.
The council's leaders said, in a letter read during Bashir's trial here Thursday, that the cleric's presence in the upcoming congress was of great importance as he had to deliver an accountability report as chairman of the council. "Bashir is also expected to address the congress," they said.
"We'd like you to ship him back to talk to us after you've shot him, too..."
However, they noted that if the court rejected their request, they would ask the judges to allow Bashir to prerecord his accountability report and speech.
"We just miss hearing him rant..."
Presiding judge M Saleh did not respond to the council's request.
He was out buying a new keyboard...
Bashir is standing trial on charges of planning to assassinate Megawati Soekarnoputri (when she was vice president) and violating immigration law.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 17:26 ||
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The Press Secretary to Liberia's President Charles Taylor told allAfrica.com, Wednesday, that Taylor wants a firm commitment to "a constitutional transition" before stepping aside. Taylor was still willing to step down "if that will lead to peace," said Sylvester Vaani Passawe; "the question is what happens to the democratic mandate of the Liberian people."
We'll find out when they stop cutting each other's arms off...
Passawe, who said he was talking to allAfrica "with President Taylor's voice," called the conflict in Liberia, "a proxy war." Claiming to have "direct evidence," he accused the United States of backing the Liberian rebels. Pressed on the point, Passawe said aid money given to neighboring Guinea by the United States was being used by Lurd rebels to lease armaments with U.S. knowledge. AllAfrica has not been able to confirm this independently. What is going on in Liberia "is not a matter of bad governance," said Passawe, "but a policy of 'regime change' in the form of a proxy war."
It's a regime that needs changing...
He insisted that Liberia's current government was legitimately elected and that if Taylor stepped down, the only way to assure peace would be for Liberia's vice president, Moses Blah, to take over as provided for by the constitution.
But there's a hitch to that...
Last month Taylor said his government had foiled a coup attempt sponsored by foreign powers and linked Blah to the conspiracy. The vice-president, a long time crony associate of Taylor dating back to his rebellion, was picked up by security agents and locked up.
Whoops. Better dust 'im off...
At the time Taylor said: "Contacts were made by certain embassies near the capital to senior armed forces of Liberia personnel. Some succumbed, but the coup effort ended in failure. The attempt was foiled because the generals of the army refused. As a result, we have received and we have accepted the resignation of the vice president. And I'm sure he'll have an apology for the Liberian people."
So there is no vice president. Chuck is filling the slot himself. That way, he can step down as president and assume the office as vice president... I love high politix!
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 16:43 ||
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Plots and conspiracies! Traitors under the bed!
Dream on, loser. We don't give that big a damn.
One of the most powerful typhoons in years ripped into southern China Thursday after killing at least 10 people in the Philippines and injuring dozens more. Winds of up to 115 mph pounded the southern Chinese province of Guangdong as Typhoon Imbudo made landfall at noon near the city of Yangjiang, about 190 miles southwest of Hong Kong. The storm was moving northwest at about 28 kph. "The wind was strongest when it hit land, as strong as gale force 12," said an official at the Guangdong provincial weather bureau. "The rain is quite heavy." As they move inland and breakup, typhoons and hurricanes dump one hell of a lot of rain. This on top of the current floods. Hey, howâs that dam holding up?
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 2:25:16 PM ||
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This I'm afraid will be the end of this case as the Canadian Liberal government is totally clueless. I'm waiting for a letter of appology from Ottawa sent to Tehran. It's up to the media to decide how far to take this story by putting pressure on the gov't. After all, one of their own died. Let's see where this goes.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 11:05 Comments ||
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Hey Canada, Iran is getting pissed. Better apologize or it could get ugly (nukes?). Don't forget your cultural sensitivity. Iran is a religious state that has the approval of God.
#5
From the article: Family members have apparently been told that the officer who shot Mr. Tabesh was off-duty; police have conceded that the man was not wearing his uniform and was not driving a marked police car.
From Steve: So what?
So you're driving along, and up comes this guy next to you, honking and maybe motioning you to pull over. His car's not marked, and neither is he. You don't know who the hell he is.
So finally you drive down a road you think will lead to escape, but it's a dead end. So you get out of the car with the only weapon you have---your trusty machete. And the cop shoots you dead without ever identifying himself.
That's so what.
Look, maybe the kid was up to no good, maybe the cop did identify himself. But it wouldn't be the first time an off-duty (or undercover) cop got overzealous in the pursuance in his duties and forgot to identify himself.
If you have no sympathy for the kid, think of the cop. Many Rantburgers believe fervently in the right to keep and bear arms, and use them if threatened. If a plain-clothes cop in an unmarked car starts after you, and you don't know who he is or what he wants, you might decide to use your weapon to defend yourself. Then the cop is dead, and you're on the hook for it (assuming you too are not dead). Whereas if you'd known he was a cop from the start, you'd have just pulled over and accepted the damn ticket.
Iran, Shmiran---if the cop did not identify himself, he deserves to have his ass handed to him.
#6
Angie--You make some valid points, but we don't know the full story.
You must have three factors in place to justify use of deadly force when faced by a threat:
Means -- Does the threat have a weapon or skill to inflict harm?
Intent -- Has the threat displayed willingness to harm?
Opportunity -- Does the threat have physical capability (proximity) to harm?
We don't know the full details, but unless the cop came running out of his car with a gun at the driver and didn't identify himself as a police officer, I can't see how the driver had justification to charge back with a machete.
If the driver came running out with a machete at the cop, whether or not he had identified himself, the cop arguably had all three requisites for justifying deadly force.
Posted by: Dar ||
07/24/2003 14:03 Comments ||
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#7
God, I hate to pass up a chance to insult the Iranian gov't, but I think Angie has a very good point. I know if some un-uniformed guy in an un-marked car forced my car to stop, and if I even saw a HINT of a weapon...well, it might be very bad for his health.
Did the cop jump out of his car and show his weapon? Did he identify himself as a cop? (Even if he did, would YOU just take his word for it?)
Tooo many unanswered questions...
Posted by: eric ||
07/24/2003 14:09 Comments ||
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Angie, here is the story on the shooting in question: PORT MOODY, B.C. -- Port Moody Police say they've confirmed that a man shot by one of their officers was running at the officer with a raised machete. Keyvan Tabesh, 18, of Burnaby was shot and killed during the confrontation early Monday morning. Police say the two occupants in a vehicle with Tabesh at the time support police findings that he ran at the officer. The incident started when two women complained to police that their car had been bumped from behind, and a man inside the vehicle smashed their back window with a machete. A plainclothes police officer in an unmarked car confronted a vehicle with the same description on a dead-end street. Police are still trying to determine if the officer identified himself, but Cst. Brian Soles says their training stipulates that's the first thing an officer must do. No decision has been made yet if the two men in the car with Tabesh will face charges.
So the officer in question was responding to a call of a man wielding a deadly weapon attacking two womem: "his car was followed into a dead end by a police officer responding to a radio call"
The story clearly stated it was a unmarked police car, not the officers civilian car.Unmarked means no external markings, they still have lights and radios. As soon as he responded to that call, he was on duty, as far as I'm concerned. That's why I said "So what?".
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 14:16 Comments ||
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#9
I've heard of criminals using cheap, easily available dashboard lights in their unmarked cars, and to 95% of the people, it looks like an unmarked police car with perhaps an undercover cop in it. Does any civilian know how to tell the difference between an unmarked cop car and a 'fake' unmarked police car, or just a regular car? Most people don't, including myself. If anything other than a "real" police car pulls me over, I'm immediately suspicious.
However, it appears that these people were up to no good, so I'm not going to cry about it. We don't know the whole story here, yet.
If the Iranian really did charge at the guy with the gun, maybe it was just Darwinism at work. :)
Posted by: eric ||
07/24/2003 14:48 Comments ||
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#10
Uh folks, this is Canada, where only the police and criminals have guns. Therefore this guy had to pick one of two: either there's a criminal following me, or it's the police. Did the policeman behave like a criminal? Was he hiding his face? Crouching? Stalking the guy? There's no excuse to run at anybody with a machete no matter how close he's tailgating you, or even if he flips you the bird as he passes you on the highway. This is Canada folks.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 14:56 Comments ||
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#11
Thanks, Steve, for a fuller version of the story. I didn't see that in your original link. That certainly does change the situation. I figured there was more to it, but I thought that your "So what?" was too cavalier without knowing more facts. I know it's the Iranian gov't and all, but still...
Rafael, even in Canada the bad guys do not necessarily signal they are bad guys by crouching, stalking, or twirling their mustaches while saying, "Muah ha ha!". I
#12
Yes, but in Canada, if you pull out a machete on somebody and find yourself in court, you have better damn well prove that your life was in danger. And since people in Canada generally aren't allowed to have guns, it would be an uphill battle to do so, unless in fact your life was in danger (and you have witnesses).
In Canada, if you busted a cap in a burgler's ass while he was inside your house, even armed, you would still be busted for illegal gun possesion at the very least.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 18:40 Comments ||
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#13
"So you're driving along, and up comes this guy next to you, honking and maybe motioning you to pull over. His car's not marked, and neither is he. ... So you get out of the car with the only weapon you have---your trusty machete."
If you told this story in court, in Canada, you'd be the one busted. A little different Stateside I guess, where everyone and anyone is assumed to be packing heat. One of the reasons I prefer Canada despite the idiotic government and high taxes :)
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/24/2003 18:50 Comments ||
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#14
As a Canadian, I am fully in support of putting a bullet through anyone running around waving machetes in public.
Unregistered machetes! There oughta be a law!
Posted by: john ||
07/24/2003 21:55 Comments ||
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Five foreign Muslims arrested in Malawi last month on suspicion of belonging to al-Qaeda have been flown into the Sudanese capital, Khartoum, officials say. A senior police spokesman said investigations had cleared the men - one Sudanese, a Kenyan, a Saudi, and two Turks - of terrorism charges. Cleared? Oops, sorry, we bad.
In June, the five men living in Malawi were arrested in a joint operation mounted by United States Central Intelligence Agency and Malawiâs security organisation. The Americans wanted to deport the men, but their lawyer took the matter before the High Court, which ordered that it should hear their case. Despite this, the men were put on board a plane and taken out of Malawi to an unknown destination - leaving the Director of Public Prosecution, Fahad Assani, explaining that he did not know where they were. "This sort of terrorism is a very high risk security problem, and very little information should be given which would make the investigations with the American authorities difficult," he said. Muslims in Malawi took to the streets in protest, leading to clashes with the police. Itâs what they do.
President Bakili Muluzi defended the action, saying that his government had no choice in the matter, because Malawi was under an international obligation to fight terrorism. Now the men have turned up in Sudan, but the US embassy in Malawi is refusing all comment. A great deal still remains unclear about this extremely murky case. Thatâs what happens when you hang out with Saudis.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 9:11:27 AM ||
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I suppose somebody could always ask the guys that were arrested...
Posted by: Fred ||
07/24/2003 9:50 Comments ||
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Yar!
Violent acts of piracy at sea have hit an all-time high, with Indonesian waters ranking the most dangerous in the world, according to the International Maritime Bureau. The number of reported ship attacks soared 37% to 234 in the first six months of 2003, compared with 171 in the corresponding 2002 period. "The figures are related to whether law enforcement authorities have taken action or not taken action," said Captain Jayant Abhyankar, deputy director of the IMB. Bangladesh witnessed a doubling of attacks, but hijackings were also up in Nigerian and Indian waters. Ecuador, Guyana and the Singapore Straits saw a downturn in activity. Indonesia recorded not only the highest number of attacks - accounting for over one-quarter of the world total - but also saw the greatest violence used by the hijackers. "The pirates are very effective at getting on board. A boat can be going full speed but they can stop it using ropes with hooks," Captain Abhyankar said. "Ready the grappling hooks, lads! Prepare to board her!"
But shipping companies are increasingly able to protect themselves against attacks, he said. Since the beginning of the year, ships have been installing 9,000-volt electric fences to deter pirates from getting on board. Costing $20,000, the fence is highly effective, he said. Wonder how the crew feels about an electric fence on a tanker? One little spark in the wrong place and KAPOW!
At least 200 ships have signed up for a satellite tracking service, so that if they go off course, law enforcement agencies can be alerted. But most ships are still at risk from piracy, which is becoming more organised. "There are concerns in the industry that the crimes are going unpunished and because people can get away with it, they are doing it more often," said David Osler, a piracy expert at Lloyds List newspaper. "Hello, my name Hook, Iâll be seizing your ship today."
He said some shipping companies were discussing carrying armed guards. "But many companies see this as too risky, as things can escalate quite rapidly. I think they are looking at the price tag on what qualified professional guards cost.
"What it comes down to is the need for states to police their waters effectively." Iâll bet the states where the pirates are based are getting a payoff from them, at least the local officials.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 9:03:10 AM ||
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#1
A .50 caliber machine gun would take care of the situation. You don't need much training to aim that sucker. Why all the talk of 'professional guards'? Why can't people be allowed to defend themselves? Why must it be turned over to the 'professionals'? This is ridiculous.
#2
Johnny Depp has taken this "pirate" role too far. Somebody wave another script in his face and get him to move on.
Posted by: Dar ||
07/24/2003 9:57 Comments ||
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#3
Yar! Get yer latest news on piracy here, on the Weekly Piracy Report! Uh...Yar!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/24/2003 13:36 Comments ||
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#4
Didn't we see this a couple of weeks ago? Looks like someone didn't get enough attention, and decided to try again.
Piracy is very simple to stop: kill enough pirates, and the rest will decide to take up a less risky profession. Arm those ships! Hell, a tanker is the mother of all bombs! If the Captain finds himself in need of detonating that cargo, the pirates won't get a thing, and it'll be all but painless for the crew.
Criminal behavior only persists where it's profitable. Make it unprofitable, and it stops, or moves somewhere else. This is a no-brainer. The problem is, somebody can't get a nice, cushy job if the shipping company does it themselves - only if someone like the UN takes over. The UN has been sooooo successful everywhere else, so why not?
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/24/2003 15:14 Comments ||
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#5
The US Navy gets too little credit for abating this problem by just its appearence in a region. We're a bit busy right now with cleaning other poop on the deck. However, just remember this when the French, Belgiums, etc all bitch about American cowboyism. It ain't their ships keeping the worlds commerce lanes open and their economies running. If we took the position that we'd only come to the aid of ships flying our flag and the flags of the willing, there'd be a quick re-registry of many an ocean going vessel.
Posted by: Don ||
07/24/2003 17:47 Comments ||
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IRIN - Zimbabwe is experiencing a debilitating flight of professional and skilled people escaping the country's economic crisis, a study funded by the UN Development Programme (UNDP) has found. A large number of Zimbabweans had taken up South African citizenship and there were probably more Zimbabweans in South Africa than in the United Kingdom, the country with the highest official tally of expatriate Zimbabweans. The study was undertaken by the Scientific and Industrial Research and Development Centre (SIRDC), under contract from the National Economic and Consultative Forum, to measure the rate and level of the 'brain drain'. It confirmed that the "level and trend of the brain drain in Zimbabwe has reached unacceptable and unsustainable heights". Noting that "during the last four years, this brain drain trend has escalated in magnitude to levels that have serious implications for the country's capacity to deliver on the sustainable development front". Zimbabwe dropped to 145th place out of 175 countries in the Human Development Index (HDI) rankings in 2003.
You mean there's 30 places worse than Zim?
The HDI is a composite measure of average achievement in three basic dimensions of human development: a long and healthy life, education and a decent standard of living.
"Zim-Bob-We: Where only the dumb guys stay!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 08:34 ||
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Here's the top and bottom ten, data is from 2001:
World's most developed:
1. Norway
2. Iceland
3. Sweden
4. Australia
5. Netherlands
6. Belgium
7. United States
8. Canada
9. Japan
10. Switzerland
World's least developed:
166. Guinea-Bissau
167. Dem. Republic of Congo
168. Central African Republic
169. Ethiopia
170. Mozambique
171. Burundi
172. Mali
173. Bukina Faso
174. Niger
175. Sierra Leone
Source: UN Human Development Report 2003
Posted by: Steve ||
07/24/2003 10:06 Comments ||
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#2
watch - the typical UN response will be to force the escapees back and prevent others from leaving Bob and Grace's fiefdom
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2003 11:24 Comments ||
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#3
Bet if you'd posted the bottom fifty, 40 of them would have been African nations. Too much colonialism, too little real preparation for independence, tribal (vs national) loyalties, graft, corruption, and looting by the government... Africa is not a pretty picture.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/24/2003 13:37 Comments ||
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IRIN - The military junta which seized power in the potentially oil-rich island state of Sao Tome and Principe last week, signed an agreement with international mediators on Wednesday to allow the reinstatement of the elected government of President Fradique de Menezes, news agencies with local correspondents reported. Menezes, who was visiting Nigeria at the time of the 16 July coup, flew back to the twin-island state, 240 km west of Gabon on Wednesday night, accompanied by Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo, they added. The French news agency AFP said the military junta, led by Major Fernando Pereira, had agreed to the return and reinstatement of Menezes in return for an amnesty for the coup leaders and their civilian collaborators and the formation of a new government. Reuters quoted a diplomat as saying fresh elections would be held with the presence of international observers. The deal was negotiated by diplomats from Portugal, Brazil, the United States and several African countries. The team was led by Rodolphe Adada, the foreign minister of Congo-Brazzaville.
Wellll... Fry... me... for... an... egg! Careful! You almost stepped on my jaw!
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 08:29 ||
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Mauritania, which blamed Islamists for inciting a failed coup attempt last month, has ordered the closure of two Saudi Arabian charities, one of the organisations said on Monday. The attempted coup by renegade soldiers on June 8 followed the arrest of dozens of Islamists and activists of the pan-Arab Baath party sympathetic to Saddam Hussain amid signs of unrest after the U.S.-led war on Iraq. President Maaouya Ould Sid Ahmed Taya, whose country's economy could be revolutionised by oil reserves discovered offshore, accused Islamists of inciting support for the coup bid. A representative of the Saudi Preaching Centre said it and another Islamic charity, the Global Islamic Rescue Organisation, had been visited by officials on Sunday who ordered them to close.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
07/24/2003 05:38 ||
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#1
Saudi Charity
Saudi Charity
goes together like a horse and carriage
try and you'll discover
you can't have a turban without a murderer
EFL. From MEMRI. By Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi
"The martyrdom operations carried out by the Palestinian factions to resist the Zionist occupation are not in any way included in the framework of prohibited terrorism, even if the victims include some civilians. This is for several reasons:" Get ready to ride the slippery slope!
"First of all, due to the colonialist, occupational, racist, and [plundering] nature of Israeli society, it is, in fact, a military society. Anyone past childhood, man or woman, is drafted into the Israeli army. Every Israeli is a solider in the army, either in practical terms or because he is a reservist soldier who can be summoned at any time for war. This fact needs no proof. Those they call âciviliansâ are in effect âsoldiersâ in the army of the sons of Zion." So what about the kids, huh, al-Qawadhari? How do you justify killing them? Remember, OBL used a similar argument. Itâs OK to indiscriminately kill Americans since weâre a democracy and we all voted for our racist, colonialist, oppressive policies.
"Third⊠It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al-Harb [the Domain of Disbelief where the battle for the domination of Islam should be waged] is not protected. Because they fight against and are hostile towards the Muslims, they annulled the protection of his blood and his property." Now we get down to the nitty gritty. Kill the outsider. The guy in the other tribe. Oh, and take his booty and women while youâre at it. Itâs OK because it says so in the Koran and Hadiths. And the Geneva Convention? Thatâs man-made law. Doesnât count.
"Fourth, the Muslim clerics, or most of them, have agreed that it is permissible to kill Muslims if the army that attacks the Muslims hides behind them, that is, uses them as barricades or human shields, and sets them at the front so that the fire, arrows, or spears of the Muslims will harm them first. The clerics have permitted the defenders to kill these innocent Muslims, who were forced to stand at the head of the army of their enemies⊠Otherwise the invading army will enter and annihilate their offspring and their harvests. There was no choice but to sacrifice some [of the Muslims] in order to defend the entire [Muslim] community⊠Therefore, if it is permitted to kill innocent Muslims who are under coercion in order to protect the greater Muslim community, it is all the more so permissible to kill non-Muslims in order to liberate the land of the Muslims from its occupiers and oppressors." I fail to see the connection between an Arab-Israeli sitting in a bus and a Muslim being used as a human shield. It looks like someone forgot all that Aristotlean logic that the Arabs saved from the Dark Ages. The Intifadaâs not over by a long shot. The warâs still on. Iraq may have been El Alamein but thereâs a lot of fighting ahead. Oh and by the way, this gem of modern philosophical and legal thought was presented at a conference on "Jihad and Denying Its Connection to Terror." In Stockholm. A couple of weeks ago.
Posted by: 11A5S ||
07/24/2003 12:49:42 AM ||
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#1
thankyou, it is good to get the moneyquotes every now and then from the mouths of the Islamofascists
#3
Boy, after reading that little twisted bit, I think that we have no choice but to knock down a few more underpinnings out from this foundation. This stuff is really twisted, after multiple readings. And we are trying to negotiate with chaps like these?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/24/2003 14:01 Comments ||
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#4
Obviously, if we weren't barbarians, we could use the same logic.
To wit: We can kill anyone we want without fussing about the Geneva Convention because our Constitution and right to national survival trumps any international law.
Terrorists do not wear uniforms. The only way they can survive in their societies is through the consent of the people. Since we can never be sure which individuals are providing this consent we therefore can only ensure our national survival by killing them all.
As I said, we aren't barbarians. But that's what guys like this are asking us to become. Hopefully, we won't take them up on the offer, but then again...
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
07/24/2003 17:01 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
