Source: Rightword, Translated By Jihad Unspun
In a message to the Afghans, that was distributed in tapes near Kandahar, Mullah Mohamed Omar affirmed that Osama Bin Laden is fine and in good health. He added that the head of Al Qaida is leading the organization from a secure place that cannot be reached by the American troops and their Afghan puppets. Guess that means he's in hell...
He asked all Muslims to not believe the infidels' lies that aim at frustrating the spirits of the youths and discouraging them from doing their responsibilities. He called for fighting the infidels and ignoring their lies until Allah reward us Victory or martyrdom. More likely the latter. Much more likely...
Mullah Omar asserted that the operations and Guerrilla attacks against the Americans and their allies are going to increase in the near future. He asked the Afghans to move seriously with the Taliban and Al Qaida Mujahedeen in order to kick the infidels out of the pure Afghan lands. "Yep. We're gonna beat 'em up any minute now..."
This message was addressed to the Afghans to motivate them and remind them of their responsibilities after the warnings of Gul Agha the Governor of Kandahar to the Mujahedeen and those who help them if they do not leave Kandahar in 10 days. The tape confirmed that Osama Bin Laden is in a safe place, and the Mujahedeen are moving freely and attacking the occupiers, but the mass media are always ignoring the news of the American apparent defeat in Afghanistan. He also asserted the coordination and unity between the Taliban and Al Qaida fighters. "Yeah. We're beatin' the hell out o' them infidels. You jus' don't hear about it..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 01:56 pm ||
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May Allah relieve the Muslim nation from this plight. Allah knows that I am doing my best to choose the words of my message so that it is not misunderstood. Let me first remind you about Allah saying in the holy Quran:
[snipped Koranic verses and Islamist mumbo-jumbo]
I want you to know that I and all your Muslim brothers love you, and we do not hide any bad feeling against you, but we only have an ardent request to you. I and the Muslims beg you not to be a bridge for the criminals and killers; do not be a means through which your Muslim brothers get slaughtered; do not be a path for murdering Islam. They do not kill Saddam; they are killing your brothers, our brothers. They are not only killing the Iraqis, but also they are targeting our Islam which is their prominent enemy and their horrible nightmare.
Have you thought about the destiny of the Muslim nation if their criminal plan succeeds? Can you imagine what will happen to our Islamic and Arab identity if they achieve their goals? What are we going to leave for our sons, our grand-sons and the future Muslim generations? What are we going to leave for them except money? Read your history, and you will find that money was never a way to unify the nation neither did the authority and the greed; when we attempted to seek unity without our religion we separate. What can money do for a generation that lost his religion and identity? What can technology or superficial civilizations do for a lost generation, without future or roots? We beg you brothers - we call you in the name of Allah to preserve Islam; do not devastate this religion but be a fortress for Islam, and do not be a path for the enemies to destroy our religion. Finally, do not forget to pray for your brothers in the wounded Iraq.
May Allah heal the breasts of those who are believers.
Your brother,
Osama Bin Laden
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 01:46 pm ||
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#1
Have you thought about the destiny of the Muslim nation if their criminal plan succeeds?
Well, Binny does have it right there. Things are going to change. It will be painful for many. And it will not change to Binny's view of stagnation. It is a shame that the world has to burn up so many people and treasure putting out the likes of Binny and Co. We and I mean all the world should be exploring the heavens together instead of having to muck around a bunch of boulders and be blowing up nutcase jihadis.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/09/2003 13:56 Comments ||
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#2
Have I thought abou the destiny of the Islamofascist brothers if the US plan succeeds in Iraq?
Yes.
That is why right now, I am ululating with great joy at the top of my voice to anybody that will listen!
#3
Dear readers: Tired of reading incoherent Islamist rants studded with outrageous Allah-based exhortations? For relief, see "KPA Chief of General Staff on confrontation with U.S." for a refreshing dose of secular North Korean lunacy.
#4
This caca-head really frosts my cookies. How DARE he claim to represent Islam? HOW DARE he claim to be a good Muslim? That's like Ted Bundy claiming to be a good Bhuddist. Islam is about peace - not dispatching whomever you've decided your ideals will justify getting a hate on for - GRRRRR!!! Where the hell are Ethel's pills?!
#5
Tadderly: if only some prominent muslim organisations would share your (well-placed) moral outrage.
Instead the message I most strongly hear from them on the nightly news is: 'we are the religion of peace and you are racist for judging our culture', 'the west is racist and is attacking islam' and 'while we're not terrorists like OBL, we understand (and sympathise with) his anger because it's all your fault for supporting Israel'
It would be all over for Osama if the majority of moderate muslims rose up in anger and cleaned out their own backyards of all terrorists and sympathisers. But that's not happening in the religion of peace.
Iraqi exiles stormed their former embassy in London on Wednesday in celebration of the collapse of President Saddam Hussein's rule in Baghdad. Dozens of exiles broke into the deserted office in a wealthy residential neighborhood and smashed portraits of Saddam, police and the exiles' supporters said. "They had to force entry but it was a peaceful takeover," said Zuhair Al-Maher, an opponent of the Iraqi government and one of the organizers. "There are about 60 of us and our intention is to publicize our relief and jubilation at the downfall of Saddam's regime." Police said they had arrested 24 people for criminal damage. They also closed the street and cordoned off the building. "'Ere, now! Let's have no o' that!"
The embassy has stood empty since Britain ordered Iraq's last diplomat in London, who worked at a scaled-down mission called an Interests Section under the umbrella of the Jordanian embassy, to leave last month.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 02:10 pm ||
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#1
Right! And a free "What's all this then?" t-shirt to every Iraqi in that embassy.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
04/09/2003 14:27 Comments ||
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In a fake BBC broadcast today, video was shown of jubilant Iraqi exiles storming their former embassy. Peter Arnett, in that same broadcast, reported that "Clearly the people of Iraq, even those living in the crushing grip of London's horrific police state, could not overcome their relief at the news that their beloved leader, Saddam Hussein, is alive and well in Russian hands. Zuhair Al-Maher said what he said because he fears Prime Minister Blair's homicidal reprisals for outbursts against the Coalition's emperialist philosophy. We should applaud their wanting to take up diplomatic duties for and on behalf of Saddam Hussein, may he grace us with his presence forever. Also, I'm insane, which may be why the BBC and ABC News make more use of me than those bastards at MSNBC did, may they burn in hell forever. Praise Saddam!"
But there was a feeling in the air. Both pro and anti-war sides in the Commons appeared united in their relief that this conflict seemed to be entering its final phase.
The release of tension was evident in the response to Iain Duncan Smith when he asked who he would accept the Iraqi surrender from.
"George Galloway" came the shout from the Labour backbenches.
The universal delight at this remark spoke volumes about the atmosphere in the chamber.
Ha Ha, He should be hiding in the Russian embassy
Posted by: rg117 ||
04/09/2003 09:20 am ||
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#1
Nah, he'd be afraid it would get bombed just like the one in Baghdad. Stupid git.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 19:03 Comments ||
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HEAVILY edited for length â can you believe it was A LOT longer?
UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan's spontaneous trip to join President Vladimir Putin and the leaders of Germany and France in St. Petersburg this weekend was called off only hours after it was announced. The quick turnabout underscores the sensitivity of the diplomatic game being played in world capitals as the Iraq war appears to be wrapping up. At issue is who will control postwar Iraq and namely what role the United Nations -- and countries that are not part of the U.S.-led coalition -- will play. âWait! The UN will have a vital role in post-war Iraq?! We CANâT go to Russia now!â
If Annan had joined them, it would have been seen as a slap in the face of the United States, which has insisted that the U.S.-led coalition now fighting in Iraq has the right to control how Iraq is run and rebuilt. Yes, slapping us again would not be the wisest move.
Only hours later, though, Annan's visit was canceled. He had planned to leave Wednesday on a trip to Britain, France and Germany, continuing on to Russia.
Annan's office in New York said Wednesday that the entire European tour was scrapped in favor of attending the European Union enlargement ceremony in Athens on April 17, when 10 more countries will join the EU. Putin was invited to Athens, but would be represented by Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, The Associated Press reported, citing the Greek government. The Foreign Ministry in Moscow said it could not confirm officially that Ivanov is going to Athens, and Annan's press service also said it did not know if Ivanov would be meeting with the UN secretary-general there. Ah. Where in Athens will they be doing lunch, then?
âThe task that remains central is contacts with these powers [Britain, France, Germany and Russia] against the background of active work on the outlines of a postwar settlement,which includes us" Gorelik said. Dmitry Trenin, a foreign policy expert with the Moscow Carnegie Center, said Wednesday that Annan had canceled the St. Petersburg visit because appearing there with Schröder and Chirac would have been "scandalous." "He could not associate himself with a group of great powers," Trenin said. "After that, it would have been impossible for him to look the Bush administration in the face. He is already not quite popular with them." Oh thatâs an understatementâŠ
âThe UN so far cannot serve as a 100 percent guarantee of conflict prevention," Interfax quoted Margelov as saying at a Russian-German conference in St. Petersburg. "But one cannot underestimate its role in both forming public consciousness and post-conflict settlement." Sure we can.
The key issue is whether the United Nations, and consequently Russia as a permanent member of the Security Council, will have a say in administering Iraq after the war, or whether the organization's role will be reduced to humanitarian projects, thus giving legitimacy to the U.S.-led war without any decision-making role. I vote for this.
"We will be working to ensure that the UN Security Council will approve such a transfer of power and also clear the way for the activities of specialized UN institutions, providing humanitarian aid, etc.," Izvestia quoted Vershbow as saying. "The final role for the UN is yet to be defined."
They're probably already working on getting the Food for Nooky program together, though. Some of those Iraqi babes looked pretty hot...
Commenting on talks U.S. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice held in Moscow on Monday, Vershbow also said that there could be a place for the United Nations, Russia and other leading powers in the immediate postwar administration, along with the coalition and the Iraqis. "We have quite detailed plans, but they are not formally adopted yet," Vershbow was quoted as saying. "So we think that Russia, which has interests in this country, should take part in the discussions on this subject." âPlease let us weasel ingratiate our way into some money deals projects!â
#3
Hopefully this is just French, Germans and Russians jockeying for a piece of the action and not a more concerted effort at aligning against the US. Presumably the scenes from Baghdad this morning will blunt whatever statement they are planning to make after this meeting as even these countries must pay lip service to the cause of human freedom. However, reports about Russian interference and material assistance to Iraq are disturbing. I cannot understand why they are willing to throw away a burgeoning relationship with the US for what is really a small amount of business for Russian companies. At best it appears that Russia has decided to orient itself with the EU at the expense of the US. At worst they have decided to lead a strategic bloc against us and will cause no end of mischief. I count myself as one who had become far too optimistic about US-Russia relations post 9/11.
#4
It all has to do with the market for weapons and money. The Russians just want to sell their stuff to someone, anyone, since it is their only cash crop worth exporting, so to speak. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the market for their weapons has diminished; so have disappeared the Soviet-US cold war conflicts all over the world. The US has customers for its military products. But the Russians? French? Iraq was a big deal to them. And then there's the oil....
#5
I have to profess my absolute amazement at the posturing going on in Europe. But then I remind myself that this is still the same old "western" Europe that is still fiercely, antagonistically nationalistic, and their stated disgust with our "imperialist" ways derives not from anything having to do with a wisdom born of age and experience, but of barely disgiused envy and the desire to wield power in just the way we as a nation refuse to. Only the freakish left could believe that France, Germany or Russia wouldn't annex Iraqi oil fields for their own gain if they were in the same position we currently occupy.
Yes, our nation has been party to some true ugliness - we are not historically spotless, not domestically, and not internationally. But in Iraq - however one wishes to prioritize our several reasons for sending our armed forces there - we have done an amazing thing in the Middle East. Though it will never happen, we should be congratulated.
#7
In regards to the posturing going on in Europe, I am reminded of a book I recently read which had some really amazing statements in it and which, frankly, were virtually psychic.
In his fiction novel (action-adventure) "Ice Station", one of Matthew Reilly's characters, a US representative at the UN, makes the statement that "France has been working to undermine the power of the United States for at least the last 40 years." He goes on to back up this statement with several examples that are eerily familiar today.
Taking into consideration that Reily is an Australian and the book was published in 2000, which means it was probably finished in 1998 and written over the course of the preceding several years, it really was quite prescient.
Anyone who wants specific references can email me and I'll provide them via email.
#8
Tadderly, yeah, I can believe it was a lot longer. For some reason, there's a Russian belief that if you take forever to say something it must be profound. Prime example: Doestoevsky.
It will just be interesting to see who stabs who in the back first, France or Russia. Talk about a match made in hell.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 19:23 Comments ||
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#9
Tad, your hilites work properly if I click the 'e-mail' or 'comments'.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 19:38 Comments ||
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#10
Put the UN HQ in Baghdad.
Posted by: TJ Jackson ||
04/10/2003 0:07 Comments ||
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edited (somewhat) for brevity
A transatlantic row threatened to erupt over the future of Iraq last night when France demanded that the United Nations take over from Britain and America once the fighting ends. With ferocious battles taking place between American and Iraqi forces in the heart of Baghdad, Tony Blair and President George W Bush announced plans to give the UN a "vital role", rather than overall responsibility, for creating a new Iraq. President Bush and Tony Blair hold a joint news conference after their meeting at Hillsborough Castle. But hours after the summit at Hillsborough Castle outside Belfast, President Jacques Chirac insisted that rebuilding the country "is a matter for the United Nations and for it alone". Translation: "We want it, you can't have it, and we'll hold our breath until we turn blue and pass out if we don't get out way." I swear - Chirac sounds more and more and more like the petulant little child every time he opens his fat mouth.
His comments appeared to dash the Prime Minister's declared hope that Europe and America could overcome their bitter "diplomatic wrangling" of recent months. The PM had better wake and smell the coffee - France does not have the US or the UK's best interests at heart anywhere. Chirac is in it for the money and to stop US and UK power. Period.
In another worrying development for Mr Blair, Moscow announced an impromptu summit of Russia, France and Germany - the main countries opposed to the war - in St Petersburg at the weekend. With America and Britain still fighting a war and shedding blood to unseat Saddam, it is unlikely that Washington in particular will be willing to negotiate with countries derided by the American Right as the "Axis of Weasel".
Mr Blair and Mr Bush yesterday agreed to give the UN an important but not decisive role as they drew up plans to create a broad-based interim government in Baghdad. "As the coalition proceeds with the reconstruction of Iraq, it will work with its allies, bilateral donors and with the United Nations and other international institutions," said their statement. "The United Nations has a vital role to play in the reconstruction of Iraq." The UN would not run Iraq, but it would help find Iraqis to serve on the interim authority and the Security Council would be asked formally to endorse the new post-Saddam administration.
But Mr Blair's hope that this delicate compromise would be enough to overcome the row over the failure to secure a UN resolution authorising war was quickly dashed. "We are no longer in an era where one or two countries can control the fate of another country," the French president said. Unless that one country is France, of course.
The plan for the post-Saddam era, modelled on the UN-backed process that led to the creation of a new Afghan government after the overthrow of the Taliban, was hailed by No 10 as a success for the "special relationship" between America and Britain. Mr Blair has been keen to marginalise Ahmad Chalabi, leader of the Iraqi National Congress who is favoured by many in the Pentagon, and prevent him being installed as the interim leader of Iraq. Mr Bush appeared to have acknowledged that others, including figures from within Saddam's regime, could have a legitimate claim to rule by agreeing that the new interim authority should be "broad-based and fully representative, with members from all of Iraq's ethnic groups, regions and diaspora".
In an apparent overture to European opponents, Mr Bush said: "There is some scepticism in Europe about whether I mean what I say. Saddam Hussein clearly knows I mean what I say and the people of Iraq will soon know I mean what I say . . . Vital role for the UN means vital role." Translation: The UN had better know that Bush means what he means and keep their heads down, their mouths shut, and their hands out of our pockets.
#3
Sorry. I'm so sorry, people, but I can't resist one last bit of fake news: This just in! Jacques Chirac, feeling the sting of behind the curve on the entire Coalition-Iraq conflict, said in a secret meeting with his cabinet that "We need to be ahead of the curve for the coming Coalition-North Korea conflict! I want us to start saying "No" now, not later! Nobody, but nobody, cuts us off at the knees before we have a chance to cut ourself off at the knees!" It is further reported that his cabinet agreed that Chirac's tactic, referred to now as a Pre-emptive Weasel, sounded like a pretty darn good idea, but it should be noted his cabinet is composed of frenchmen.
#7
Don't you just love that French arrogance? Such behavior goes only so far, and when pressed or left out, they cry like the spoiled brats they are. Jacques-baby and his crew of cry babies are on outside looking in and this one folks. The meeting of the "Gang of the Irrelevant Four" notwithstanding.
#10
Dar---I can empathize with your feelings, LOL. I just love it when Chiraq "demands" this and "demands" that. There is nothing like the results one gets when one is negotiating from a position of WEAKNESS.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/09/2003 17:07 Comments ||
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#11
Sounds like someone needs a diaper change!
Hey, does that mean that the UN should oversee the Ivory Coast, too? Didn't think so....
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 19:32 Comments ||
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France and chirac are officially Bush's bitch, on your knees ho!
Why? We can tell the French what they can do from this side of the channel. IGNORE THEM!!!
UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw and France's Dominique de Villepin have attempted to present a united front by agreeing the urgent need for international involvement in rebuilding post-war Iraq. Mr Straw said it looked as though "we may be towards the close of hostilities" with Iraq. Eugh, Jack, how can you do this?!
He said the country had to be governed "by the people of Iraq with the support of the coalition and the United Nations international community". He insisted that the UK and France had a "grown up relationship", while accepting that sometimes the two nations "have different objectives perspectives".
Mr de Villepin said a sense of "common values" was shared, adding: "We would like to express our sympathy that France has with the British people. "We still believe they are represented by an oppressive regime."
"I would like to reiterate our support for many of the things that Tony Blair has been saying. We have also indicated our hope that the war in Iraq will be finished as soon as possible. Also, we would like to stress the urgency when it comes to the humanitarian effort in the Gulf that we all work together and that the international community plays an important role." The biggest humanitarian job's been done, and you wanted no part of it, so STFU and try to f*** Germany again. Oh, Schroeder's not there any more?!
The pair were speaking after a meeting in Paris, which follows talks in Belfast between UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George Bush. France, which is fiercely opposed to liberty the conflict, has insisted the United Nations must handle the reconstruction of Iraq. Mr Bush and Mr Blair repeated their desire for a fully elected Iraqi government to follow an interim Iraqi administration. Mr Straw reiterated that message, by saying the two premiers "had committed themselves to a vital role for the UN in the reconstruction of Iraq and other matters relating to Iraq."
"We all hope desperately that the conflict comes to an end," he told reporters. "It looks as though we may be towards the close of hostilities - none of us want the blood of a single individual shed at all in this situation. We want the removal of Saddam Hussein's government and we want, as that is happening the process of reconstruction. Both we and the US wish to see, as quickly as possible, the creation of a representative, democratic Iraqi government, carrying the consent of the Iraqi people responsible, crucially, for its own security... that cannot happen overnight." As US and UK forces were already on the ground in Iraq, "we have to remain there - it's our responsibility to remain there until these other processes are through", he said. "Our primary concern now is to protect the Iraqi people from counterattacks launched by forces allied to Saddam - France, Russia, the UN."
Mr Straw said Britain's ties with France were in "friendship, history and culture". "It would be very boring if friends always agreed," he said. Friends fall out when one becomes a complete w***er and tries to stab the other in the back though, don't they?
"This is a grown up relationship. Of course we sometimes have different perspectives on issues and so what? What is important is that we work those through in a dialect and we show a higher agreement. Everybody knows there has been some difference of opinions on Iraq, but there is a huge range of issues on the agenda where we are almost exactly in the same place." These are, again?
Mr de Villepin said it was "very important" that the international community has "a central role" in reconstructing Iraq. "That needs to come from the United Nations ... It is not a question of a vital role or a central role. I think we would all agree that the United Nations will play a key role." Fine, we'll hire a few UN locksmiths.
Mr Straw and Mr de Villepin also spoke of the importance of the Middle East peace process which, along with Iraq and Northern Ireland, was a major focus of President Bush's visit to Belfast. France has major commercial interests in Iraq and under the oil for food programme, it was Iraq's leading supplier of goods. More than a fifth of all Iraqi imports were French sales. Let's let the Iraqis decide how much Chirac's cronies can continue to wring out of their country, eh?
Posted by: Bulldog ||
04/09/2003 05:42 am ||
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I say, Dominique, do you comprehend just how seriously pissed the Merkins are? I thought not.
Posted by: Matt ||
04/09/2003 9:56 Comments ||
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Saw a line that summed it up perfectly, now can't remember where. Argh!
"They do not even appear to find the continuing silence from Washington ominous."
#3
Mr Straw said Britain's ties with France were in "friendship, history and culture".
Well, history anyway. One outta three ain't bad.
Good God! How can he say that with a straight face!
Posted by: Tom ||
04/09/2003 11:00 Comments ||
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The US is pissed at the French, but we are also a grown up nation. Robert Kagan had an interesting article in todays WaPo - we know Tony has to mend fences in Europe, lets be supportive - we shouldnt try to divide Europe "let the French do that", let the Germans come on board, so their not stuck with the French.
The polar points in Europe now are UK and France - but the maneuvering betweeen them will be subtle, not a cold war - Italy and Spain are with UK, but not firmly, Germany is with France, but not firmly and both UK and France have "5th columns". It makes perfect sense for Blair to be publicly conciliatory, while still pushing for different objectives than France - he has to reach out to all the rest of Europe, as well as the wiser heads in France, as well as watch his back.
#5
John McCain has said a couple of times now that a great way for France and Germany to start making nice would be to immediately forgive the Iraqi people of their debt.
Bring you check books and pull up a chair boys... that will seperate the "Playa's" from the "Faka's"
Britain and France have shared much of their history. Look at, f'instance, Waterloo. And Trafalgar.
Heh heh.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/09/2003 12:32 Comments ||
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#7
Crecy, Poiters and Agincourt. Yes, a long history.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 15:23 Comments ||
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#8
You guys aren't educating me -- that's the kind of history I had in mind. But what about friendship and culture? Norman conquest?
Posted by: Tom ||
04/09/2003 19:04 Comments ||
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#9
Ah yes, Fred, but that was OLD EUROPE...oh, wait,...damn
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/09/2003 21:02 Comments ||
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#10
The UN will have a vital role in cleaning up Iraq after the war-here's your mop and bucket.
Posted by: TJ Jackson ||
04/10/2003 0:14 Comments ||
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#11
Jezuz H Keerist:
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk
We would like to express our sympathy that France has with the British people. I would like to reiterate our support for many of the things that Tony Blair has been saying.
We have also indicated our hope that the war in Iraq will be finished as soon as possible. Also, we would like to stress the urgency when it comes to the humanitarian effort in the Gulf that we all work together and that the international community plays an important role.
LUKoil said Tuesday it would block Iraq's huge West Qurna oil field development for many years if any U.S. or British firm decided to challenge its leading role in the project. Nothing more imperialistic than reformed communists... LUKoil vice president Leonid Fedun stated that the firm would sue any new contender for the field for at least $20 billion and ask international courts to arrest tankers with Iraqi crude oil. Uh oh, LAWYERS !!
"Nobody can develop this field without us in the next eight years. If somebody decides to squeeze LUKoil out, we are going to appeal in the Geneva arbitration court, which will immediately arrest this field," Fedun said. We won't squeeze you out, just open the deal up for competitive bids with the proceeds going the the Iraqi Trust rather than a handful of Islamothugs...
"This type of trial can last for about six or eight years. ... We are going to arrest tankers with crude produced in Iraq using the Geneva court," he added. Sounds like he's fishing for a settlement...
Oil analysts have said that ChevronTexaco, ExxonMobil and ConocoPhillips of the United States are likely to compete with Anglo-Dutch Shell Group, Britain's BP and TotalFinaElf of France for major production contracts should postwar Iraq privatize its oil industry. Russian firms have the most to lose in a postwar Iraq as they have signed contracts worth $4 billion with the government of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to drill oil wells, deliver Missiles equipment and develop Iraq's massive oil reserves, which rank second in the world after those of Saudi Arabia. The key deal is a $3.7 billion contract held for years by LUKoil and to develop West Qurna. Iraq scrapped the deal in 2002 saying LUKoil sought U.S. guarantees to keep the field under any government change, while LUKoil said the move was aimed at punishing Russia's diplomacy for its moderate position in the UN Security Council. Fedun said LUKoil still believed the field belonged to his firm: "From the legal point of view, it is still our field." Wah, I want my field back !
Posted by: Showme ||
04/09/2003 12:04 am ||
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Who's going to help with arresting oil tankers -- the Russian navy? Please.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 0:39 Comments ||
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Send in the Sopranos. I'm sure they could cut a deal with the LUKoil mafiosos... or else.
#5
Yes...TotalFinaElf and LUKOil force the Russian and French Navies to move out to interdict the oil tankers. I see it now...
Tangentially, in the Russo-Japanese War, didn't Russia almost trigger war with Britain by torpedoing British fishing ships in the North Sea because they were presumed by the Imperial Russian Navy to be Japanese?
Posted by: Brian ||
04/09/2003 7:09 Comments ||
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#6
Hell, bring it on! Our lawyers are better than their lawyers. They've had DECADES of experience tying stuff up in court.
This must be further proof that Sammy's dead. Otherwise, shouldn't they be threatening to sue HIM, since he's the one who reneged last year?
How the hell do you arrest an oil field, anyway? I can see detaining a ship (if you had a navy capable of doing that, which they don't), but a piece of land??
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 7:53 Comments ||
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#7
Brian -- I don't think they did, because the North Sea is off of Britain, far away from the Pacific. Japanese boats would have little, if any, reason to be there. There is a pretty good website at www.russojapanesewar.com that has info on that conflict, if you are interested.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 8:09 Comments ||
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#9
Silly LUKOil. The West Qurna field is only one of many oil fields in Iraq. If they get belligerent about it, pump the other fields for 8 years, feed Iraq and rebuild from the proceeds, then have Iraq start pumping again after the 8 years is up.
#11
So a Russian company is going to sue the US into honering a contract that a was broken by a third party? I'll bet the left doesn't care if Russian "Big Oil" gets a blood-for-oil deal. Hypocrosy at it's most obvious. The part about ".. Punishing Russia for it's moderate position in the UN" is what really gets me. Moderate?
Posted by: Mike N. ||
04/09/2003 11:37 Comments ||
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#12
Actually the term 'Arrest' here comes from Maritime/Admiralty law and means to 'set aside a cargo until ownership can be determined'. When salvagers find a shipwreck they petition a Maritime court to 'arrest' the ship laying on the bottom of the ocean so as to prevent other salvagers from enfringing on their claim.
#14
Who what where when? Who will be sued. What is the real issue. What court has jurisdiction. When does the show start, I need to get some beer and pop some corn.
A US congressman and anti-war activist on Tuesday revived his proposal for the creation of a "US Department of Peace" to be headed by a cabinet-level official on a par with the secretary of state or secretary of defense. Democratic congressman Dennis Kucinich, (D- Crackhouse) a presidential candidate and an outspoken critic of President Bush's policy on Iraq, unsuccessfully introduced similar legislation in July 2001. I've heard of "Useful Idiot". Is there such a thing as "Useless Idiot"? Oh, yeah. Democrats.
But he said he is reintroducing the bill because, especially during this time of war, Washington needs a peace department. "Now, more than ever, this legislation is urgently needed. Our current foreign policy makes our nation less safe and will make it impossible to meet our domestic needs," Kucinich said. The proposed legislation calls for a department that would advocate non-violence and peace education. It would support international disarmament treaties and help resolve potentially violent conflicts around the world, Kucinich said.The Department of Peace would also promote non-violence as an organizing principle in our society, and would generally seek to "help to create the conditions for a more peaceful world," he said. He then passed the bong to the reporter...
"This legislation offers a path towards peace and prosperity," Kucinich said. The department also would support the creation of a "Peace Academy," with graduates being granted degrees in peace studies after successfully completing four years of education. Kind of like a Philosophy degree, but you're even less employable.
The Peace Department also would analyze foreign policy and make recommendations to the president on the protection of human rights, said Kucinich, who said his bill has the support so far of 47 members of the House of Representatives. Dennis, feel free to mention their names. I'm sure they'd be forever grateful. Kucinich-Sharpton 2004
#2
And, in a final bit of fake news before I have to get back to work, democratic congressman Dennis Kucinich announced that the creation of the proposed Peace Department's Academy of Peace would be named "Patrice Lamumba University" with campus buildings in the former Soviet Union and France. "Well, of *course* it's 'obvious'," said Kucinich to reoprters who started laughing during his announcement. "I mean, c'mon, my party has basically thrown caution to the wind and embraced the radical left in hopes that we'll ride the wave of victory when the anti-conservative backlash comes, and I want to be first in line when the voting public starts handing out party-politic meal tickets. Shit - I'd rape virgins and attempt genocide against the Kurds myself if I thought it'd get Hollywood and the networks on my side."
#3
Call it what it really would be: The Department of Appeasement. Unbelieveable. The Leftists are imploding almost as fast at the Ba'athists in Baghdad.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
04/09/2003 15:25 Comments ||
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Kucinich was mayor of my hometown of Cleveland from 1977-79. He was an unmittigated disaster. He was nick-named "Dennis The Menance", fired chiefs of police left and right, sent the city into bankruptcy, and survived a recall vote by THREE votes...and then claimed that was a mandate! And that was in just two years!! Take my word for it, this gau ia an absolute dickhead.
#8
If he's an example of what a "peace studies" graduate would be, I'd rather study military history. Dennis, on behalf of all Slovenians worldwide, STFU!!!!
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 19:43 Comments ||
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#9
the creation of the proposed Peace Department's Academy of Peace would be named "Patrice Lamumba University" ...
Oh my, that had me laughing! What I'd give a) to have Helen Thomas heckle ask Pres. Bush about the 'Department of Peace' at a press conference, and b) have Bush reply with your line.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 19:48 Comments ||
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#10
This Department of Appea..I mean, Peace Department sounds suspiciously like the State
Department....
#12
Uh ..Hey I could go for a piece department, I guess I could use piece right now uh huhuhuhu,, is anyone out there? does anyone notice me, I wonder if I can get Oprah to slap willy junior uh huhuhuhu
Posted by: Bill Clinton ||
04/09/2003 20:16 Comments ||
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#13
Nothing wrong with hitting a bong - I'm doing a big bowl right now and doing my taxes...oh, wait... um, what was the question?
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/09/2003 21:05 Comments ||
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#14
man, what is it about these fools that brings out the good comments - I bow to Tu with the (D-Crackhouse); steve (always good), and Bill C, our newcomer (no puns..) - This is the kind of good shit we avoid by ignoring Murat's trolling guys.... don't feed them - they aren't hungry for knowledge, just attention (and bandwidth). I contribute to Rantburg - I value it and letting these diversions (and that's ALL they are) get in the way of learning new things, enjoying the comments ;-) and having real discussions with people who want to know things...isn't that why you came?
Frank
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/09/2003 21:16 Comments ||
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#15
Dennis the Menace strikes again. This is the idiot who was mayor when the river running through his city caught fire. I say parachute him into Tikrit so he can test his theories.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
04/09/2003 22:14 Comments ||
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#16
Frank: you are right.
From now on, I will only reply 1 line to Murat:
"Armenians, Cypriots, Kurds"
it won't take space or bandwith!
Boy oh boy, this is going to be some spectacle - the hard core of the anti-war movement in their full, dumb-ass glory. We didn't even have to force them out, they actually want to expose themselves.
The Stop The War Coalition says hundreds of thousands of protesters are set to attend a mass rally in London on Saturday. You guys'll have to think of a new name now, like "Threatened Dictators Protection League" or something.
They say the rally will be held to commemorate the people who have died during the conflict. Picturing a procession carrying coffins bearing the names "Saddam", "Uday", "Qusay", "Chemical Ali", "Fedayeen Saddam", I might well shed a tear or two myself...
Meanwhile, anti-war groups are organising a meeting in London on May 25 with international lawyers to consider whether members of the British government, including Tony Blair, Jack Straw and Geoff Hoon have committed war crimes. Can we try the organisers for Breathtaking Hypocrisy crimes?
A Stop The War Coalition spokesman said: "We are organising meetings in many parts of the country which are bigger than those which took place before the war started." He said one meeting in Liverpool on Tuesday night had drawn a crowd of more than 1,000 tyrant apologists people. The coalition expects hundreds of thousands of people from across the UK to take part in Saturday's march, which will be held to commemorate the people who had died during the conflict. Demonstrators will hold a minute silence as a mark of respect to the Iraqi civilians and members of the military forces who have been killed or injured in the fighting. Someone ought to add up how many minutes' silence would be needed if this number of casualties represented one unit of the total number of Saddam's victims. Carol Naughton, chairwoman of CND, said she was convinced war crimes had been committed and she believed the case should be heard in the International Criminal Court in The Hague. One can only hazard a guess at what else this deluded fool also believes.
Mrs Naughton who is helping to organise Saturday's rally, said she was being asked why she was still protesting against the war, now that it seemed the military phase was nearing its end. She went on: "I cannot put my conscience to one side just because thousands of people have already been killed. The conduct of this war has been inhumane and we have to keep opposing what has happened to make sure that the people carrying this out are held accountable." Inhumane by whose standards? Aaaargh, don'tcha just wanna strangle pacifists?!!!! Anas Altikriti of the Muslim Association of Britain said the vast majority of Muslims in this country remained opposed to the war. He said the British public was being fed "lies and deception" about the conduct of the war while the true nature of the humanitarian disaster had not been disclosed. Disclose it to us then, you arrogant, deluded, SOB.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
04/09/2003 08:08 am ||
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#1
"I cannot put my conscience to one side just because thousands of people have already been killed. The conduct of this war has been inhumane and we have to keep opposing what has happened to make sure that the people carrying this out are held accountable."
So, Mrs Naughton, that means you are going to press charges on the Iraqis who forced women and children to be human shields against the Coalition forces, right?
I like the Muslim Association guy's last name. Al-tikriti. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that one of Saddam Hussein's clan names, or something like that?
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 8:49 Comments ||
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#2
Mrs. Naughton's comments: "The conduct of this war has been inhumane and we have to keep opposing what has happened to make sure that the people carrying this out are held accountable."
Who made her the arbiter of humane wartime conduct? Queen of the narrow perspective, wouldn't you agree?
And, I've yet to hear any anti-war protest denounce the Iraqi gangleader--Sammy himself.
#5
Saddam's family name is al-Tikriti, signaling his birthplace some 65 years ago, and his tribe has been the greatest beneficiaries of his long regime.
Like being appointed to the Muslim Association of Britain, perhaps? Someone needs to check his papers.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 11:47 Comments ||
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#6
Pictures on CBS television a few minutes ago (10:45MDT)showing thousands of Iraqis celebrating the destruction of Saddam Hussein's statue in a main square in Baghdad. Looks like a large majority of the people are VERY happy to see the SOB gone, now that it seems like a done deal. Someone should bring this to the attention of all these "peace activists", so they can understand just how stupid their behavior is. I cannot understand the willingness of some people to be ostriches in a world of bird hunters.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/09/2003 12:00 Comments ||
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#7
These idiots will have peace rallies for years to come. Since none of them have a job it gives them something to do. Scotland yard should ask the Oakland PD how to handle things.
..excerpts from cbc.ca..
A Muslim cleric in Ottawa issued an apology for calling on Muslims in the Middle East to wage a holy war against American troops in Iraq. But Gamal Solaiman later softened the apology, implying that the media had misunderstood his comments. Hate it when that happens.
"I do not support or promote violence in any form against any country or any group of people," he wrote Monday night. Jews & Infidels sold separately. Batteries not included. But here's the kicker:
After Immigration Minister Denis Coderre announced he was checking on Solaiman's citizenship status, the cleric issued his apology. He later amended the apology to read, "I deeply regret and sincerely apologize for my misunderstood comments and the hurt which it may have caused." After reading the article again, I still can't figure out which apology came first.
Posted by: RW ||
04/09/2003 01:24 am ||
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#1
He was too busy issuing Fatwas to renew his visa. Oops. The apology was timely but if he is smart, now is the time for Gamal to start talking about the oppression he faces in his home country and in Canada: "Political Asylum! Get me a good Immigration Lawyer!"
Lather on a thick layer of guilt: "the Canadian officials are persecuting me for my beliefs and trying to intimidate me into silence!"
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
04/09/2003 2:09 Comments ||
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#2
Ah,the famous Trent Lott apology:"I'm sorry you didn't understand me.I'll speak slower next time."
Posted by: El Id ||
04/09/2003 4:51 Comments ||
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#3
A very wise Imam once told me to let the Fatwas sit a day or two, then give them a good read before you send them out. They have a habit of coming back and biting you in the ass if there is too much spittle on them, sez he. Saalam and Shalom.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/09/2003 14:06 Comments ||
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#4
And Egypt sucks during fly season. Come to think of it, it's always fly season in Egypt.
The Pakistani law enforcing Agencies Tuesday apprehended a medical doctor and his son suspecting their linkages with al-Qaida of Osama bin Laden. âDr. M Khan Mehmoud Ahmed Kathia and his son were arrested by the Pakistani authorities from Banni Qasim in Harrapa, some 150 kilometers in the South-West of Lahore, capital of Pakistani Punjab,â a highly placed source told NNI. When contacted the local police of Harrapa, the police official requesting anonymity has said, âwe donât know about the arrests neither we were part of the raiding party.â As part of the government since September 11, 2001, some months before two medical doctors including Dr. Aziz and Dr. Ahmed Jawed Khawaja were arrested from Lahore on their suspected linkages with Osama bin Laden of al-Qaida in separate raids conducted with a gap of at least five months. Dr. Khawaja and his brother Ahmed Naveed Khawaja are still in the custody where Dr. Aziz who was arrested last year was released in December 2002.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 03:47 pm ||
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#2
Until the Qazi and Khurshid show - Jamaat-i-Islami - is put out of business, these harbored terrorists will continue to pop up. US policies have all but caused the toppling of the last remnants of secularism in Pakistan.
A religious scholar and member of the Pakistani Parliament on Wednesday described the unilateral war on Iraq as a prelude to establishing a Greater Israel in the Middle East. Ooooh! Greater Israel! Oh, hold me, Fatimah! Fayyazur Rehman Alvi, a member of the National Assembly (Lower House of the Parliament), told IRNA here that the US has political and economic objectives in its current aggression on Iraq. In the first place, he said, American leadership would be on the road to materializing its long-drawn plan of establishing a Greater Israel as well as obtaining access to the world's second biggest oil reserves and those of other regional states. He warned that the Islamic world should come out of their slumber as the US-led aggression would not be confined to Iraq but would engulf other nations in the Middle East and Persian Gulf as well. "Arise, ye jihadis!"
To a question, he said that the unilateral action against Iraq is part of the US strategy to make Israel the policeman of the region and give the US unrestricted access to the region's economic wealth. By attacking the sovereign and independent Islamic state of Iraq, Alvi observed, US President George W. Bush had proved himself to be the biggest enemy of humanity and the Muslim world. Iraq wasn't and won't be an Islamic state, but we won't go into that. But we know which side this guy's on, and he's in the Pak NA, and I've got a pretty good idea which side the majority of the Pak NA is on. And I think Bush's memory is as good as mine.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 11:36 am ||
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At first glance, the argument is seductive: if America can strike out at a suspected sponsor of terrorism and hugely destructive weapons thousands of miles away, why can't India hit out at one next door? As India sees it, its neighbor Pakistan is a nuclear-armed state that is backing anti-Indian terrorism in Kashmir. The latest provocation came last month, when 24 Hindus were massacred there. India wasted little time blaming Pakistan, which denied responsibility. Few experts here think India will make a pre-emptive strike based on the American precedent. India has been increasingly critical of the United States action in Iraq, which would make it difficult to then turn around and emulate it. [India's Parliament passed a resolution on Tuesday deploring the allied attack against Iraq. "Change of regime through military action is unacceptable," the resolution said, and it called for the quick withdrawal of coalition forces from Iraq.] That was indeed a stupid move; it takes away a choice from India to take military action against Pakland. Though the lefty parties wanted to 'condemn' but the government wouldn't go for anything more than 'deploring' the military action.
India also lacks the military superiority over Pakistan that the United States has over Iraq. It's serious time that India expanded it defence industry. Involved more private corporations, better competition. India has the technical expertise, it just needs to get the bureaucrats out of the loop. India can get a significant advantage over Pakland if it plays this out correctly.
In a sign of their concern, President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain took time to approve a joint statement on the subcontinent at their Camp David summit meeting on Iraq on March 27. It urged a cease-fire and called for Pakistan to discourage militancy. "discourage militancy". Translation: Do what you like cause we don't give a shit.
"How to put pressure on Musharraf when we know Pakistan is aiding and abetting terrorism is very difficult," the senior Western diplomat said, particularly given Western countries' need for Pakistani cooperation in the war on terror. A few nukes should put a lot of pressure
Posted by: rg117 ||
04/09/2003 06:52 am ||
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Hundreds of people took to the streets in western India on Tuesday to support the U.S.-led war on Iraq, in what organisers called the country's first pro-war demonstration. Protesters, including children and young people, shouted slogans praising U.S. President George W. Bush and demanded that the effort to crush "terrorism" be expanded to include India's arch rival, Pakistan. "Indians have suffered for too long because of the covert terrorism Pakistan sponsors," said Nagesh Bhandari, convener of the Alliance Against Terrorism, a non-government organisation. "So, Bush should turn his attention to Pakistan once the Iraqi war is over."
Though several anti-war protests have been held across India, there had so far been no public demonstration of support for the war on Iraq. Demonstrators waved Indian and U.S. flags. Some, with their faces painted in the colours of the U.S. flag, shouted "Bush and Blair march ahead, we are with you," and "Kill Saddam, save the world" and "Down, Down Pakistan". "Saddam has killed thousands of his own countrymen using poisonous gas. So should we support Saddam, the mass killer or Bush, the democrat?" asked one participant. Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Let's Bomb Iraq
Posted by: rg117 ||
04/09/2003 06:50 am ||
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#1
Heh. First time I've heard Bush labeled a democrat! Of course, in the pure sense of the word, he IS.
Patience, patience. One terror supporting nation at a time...
Not that the nightmare is entirely over. For though the Americans will mark yesterday as their first day of occupation â they, of course, will call it liberation â vast areas of Baghdad remained outside the control of the United States last night. And at dusk, just before darkness curled over the land, I crossed through the American lines, back to the little bit of Saddam's regime that remained intact within the vast, flat city of Baghdad. Down grey, carless streets, I drove to the great bridges over the Tigris which the Americans had still not crossed from the west. And there, on the corner of Bab al-Moazzam Street, were a small group of mujahedin fighters, firing Kalashnikov rifles at the American tanks on the other side of the waterway. It was brave and utterly pathetic and painfully instructive.
For the men turned out to be Arabs from Algeria, Morocco, Syria, Jordan, Palestine. Not an Iraqi was among them. The Baathist militiamen, the Republican Guard, the greasy Iraqi intelligence men, the so-called Saddam Fedayeen had all left their posts and crept home. Only the foreign Arabs, like the Frenchmen of the Nazi Charlemagne Division in 1945 Berlin, fought on. At the end, many Iraqis had shunned these men and a group of them had turned up to sit outside the lobby of the Palestine Hotel, pleading to journalists for help in returning home.
"We left our wives and children and came here to die for these people and then they told us to go," one of them said. But at the end of the Bab al-Moazzam Bridge they fought on last night and when I left them I could hear the American jets flying in from the west. Hurtling back through those empty streets, I could hear, too, the American tank fire as it smashed into their building.
Poor Bob's so utterly disappointed, it's almost sad. But nobody's beaten him up this time. Yet.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 10:05 pm ||
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Incomprehensible. He sees for himself, in the clearest way possible, evidence that the Iraqis don't want to fight the coalition, and do in fact see them as liberators, but his feeble brain still doesn't understand. What a pathetic chump.
BRASILIA, Brazil - Iraqi Embassy employees in Brasilia started burning documents Wednesday after TV stations broadcast images of a Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) statue being toppled in Baghdad, police said.
Police said they could see men outside the embassy burning boxes and large quantities of paper.
"There were some workers who took papers from the offices to the garden to burn them," said police Col. Abinor Deilvane, whose unit protects embassies in the Brazilian (news - web sites) capital.
Media photographers who arrived a short time later saw three piles of smoldering paper inside the embassy's walls next to the building.
An embassy official who said he was the secretary of Iraqi Ambassador Jarallah Alobaidy denied documents were being destroyed.
"It's all lies," said the official, Abdu Saif. "We are only burning garbage and recently cut grass."
"Move along now, people. There's nothing to see here."
A short time later, a man who answered the phone at the embassy said only, "I'm not working now" and hung up.
With these kinds of shenanigans going on, there's no need to actually find WMD to justify the war. That regime was rotten to the core. If they did have WMD, let's just hope we find them before they end up in the hands of terrorists.
Info Man leaves Baghdad for greener pastures
(Thanks to Frank Martin for the pic!)
Mostly a rehash of what's already been posted, but it's from al-Jazeera, so it feels good!
Jubilant Iraqis welcomed advancing US forces in Baghdad while rampaging looters attacked symbols of Saddam Husseinâs power. Residents threw flowers at the armoured column as it swept past, just three kilometres east of the central Jumhuriyya Bridge over the Tigris river. Joy at the apparent removal of Saddam Hussein was tangible, with one man beating a canvas portrait of him with his slipper. Crowds threw flowers at the Marines as they drove past the Martyrs' Monument, just three km (two miles) east of the central Jumhuriya Bridge over the river Tigris. Young and middle-aged men, many wearing soccer shirts of leading Western clubs like Manchester United, shouted "Hello, hello" as Marines advanced through the rundown sprawl of the mainly Shia Saddam City and then more prosperous suburbs with villas and trim lawns. "No more Saddam Hussein," chanted one group, waving to troops as they passed. "We love you, we love you." One young man ran alongside a Marine armoured personnel carrier trying to hand over a heavy belt of ammunition. An older man made a wild kicking gesture with his foot, saying "Goodbye Saddam". Women waved from balconies, girls threw flower petals at young Marines leaning across gun turrets. One woman held her baby aloft. Tank crews picked the flowers from the tops of their fighting machines, smelt them and grinned. Crowds of Shia men beat their chests in the streets.
Other signs of a breakdown were also apparent. Journalists at the Palestine Hotel confirmed that their minders had disappeared. Uniformed soldiers and police have completely disappeared from some areas of Baghdad leading to an outbreak of looting, as US forces continue their advance into the city.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 03:08 pm ||
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Whoa--If al-Jazeera posts something this US-friendly, then the jig is definitely up! Wonder how many sad faces there are in the Muslim world today--outside of Baghdad, that is?
Posted by: Dar ||
04/09/2003 16:16 Comments ||
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I think we must've hit something big in that restaurant, 'cause these are the signs of things falling apart at the house of Saddam.
The threat now becomes Al-Qaeda thugs and those other foreigners renowned for making Aghanistan the envy of the world.
#3
The journalists at the Palestine Hotel must be relieved now. All the Roaches left the place and the Orkin Man does not have to go back there again....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/09/2003 17:27 Comments ||
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Fox News reported that they heard al Jazeera was run out of Basra to the Kuwaiti border and the Kuwaitis had to "save" them and let them in.
Seems the citizens of Basra did not like AJ's coverage.
And Fox News also reported that there was a confrontation w/AJ in Dearborn, MI and the police had to escort them from the parade.
"First it's not a game.
And it was over when Saddam refused to comply with 1441..."
Paraphrase sorry ;(
Posted by: sonic ||
04/09/2003 14:56 Comments ||
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In yet more fake news, Peter Arnett announced that his sorrow at the overthrow of Saddam Hussein is so pronounced that he would protest it the only way that makes sense to him: by sitting down in a town square, dousing himself with gasoline, and lighting himself on fire. He said that he hopes the image of his burning body is immortalized by Al-Jazeera, or, barring that, by Blink-182's use of the image on their next CD cover.
Posted by: sonic ||
04/09/2003 15:36 Comments ||
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FormerLiberal---Peter Arnett will douse himself with 80 proof whiskey and set himself ablaze...wait a minute...oh...<100 proof won't burn...maybe he will just suck on his shirt...
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/09/2003 17:23 Comments ||
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..oh...<100 proof won't burn.. WRONG!!! Try telling that to Heaven Hill Distilleries. Besides why waste good stuff on a POS like that.
Sanandaj, Kurdestan Prov, April 9, IRNA -- An Iraqi Kurdish satellite TV, Kurdsat, monitored here said that the Iraqi forces on Wednesday night totally retreated from Kurdistan's Khaneqiz region. The TV station, affiliated to Talabani faction of the self-declared Kurdish government, added, "the Iraqi forces were actually forced to leave the Khaneqiz region and move towards Kirkuk on Wednesday due to the heavy joint military operation launched by the Kurdish and (US-led) coalition forces. The Kurdsat that broadcasts programs in Kurdish language said, "the Kufra, Kalar and Khaneqiz regions in Iraqi Kurdistan Germian district, and all suburbs of Kirkuk city, are now under the control of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. It added, "during the Wednesday retreating of the Iraqi forces from Khaneqiz, four Iraqi officers surrendered themselves to the Kurdish combatants." Kurdsat concluded, "the Iraqi forces are now taking refuge inside Kirkuk and displaying a weak degree of resistance, that will definitely break any moment from now." Any moment now
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 02:32 pm ||
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Some key strategic sites in Baghdad and who controls them as of Wednesday night:
-New Presidential Palace: U.S. forces. Check
-Interior Ministry: U.S. forces. Check
-Defense Ministry: uncertain. Left forwarding address: General Delivery, Tikrit
-Information Ministry: contested by snipers. Bomb - again, repeat as needed
-Directorate of Military Intelligence: uncertain. Nobody home
-National headquarters of Saddam Hussein's paramilitary Fedayeen: rubble. Bwaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!
-Baath party Headquarters: apparently U.S. forces. Apparently?
-Baghdad International Airport, formerly Saddam International Airport, southwestern outskirts of Baghdad: U.S. forces. Double Check
-Rasheed Airport, southeastern Baghdad: U.S. forces, still clearing buildings. Looking for the POWs whose uniforms we found covered with blood
-Muthanna Airport, central Baghdad: uncertain. All flights delayed
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 01:58 pm ||
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somebody tell the Iraqis where the French embassy is
Russia denied on Wednesday Arab and Western media reports that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was in the compound of its embassy in Baghdad. "This type of statement is not in any way true," Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko told Russian state television. "This is another attempt to place our embassy in Baghdad under threat," he said, in an apparent reference to protests on April 2 over U.S. strikes on Baghdad which Moscow said threatened the lives of its diplomats. Russia has also blamed the United States for an incident — still unexplained — in which a convoy of Russian diplomats came under fire as it was leaving Baghdad. "Who us? Sammy? Why would we have Sammy?"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 02:07 pm ||
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This sounds suspiciously like when my god-daughter tried to flush a Power Ranger down the toilet - and came out to the living room, and said, without prompting:
"I didn't do anything, Tad."
"But I fixed it."
U.S. Marines uncovered an apparent torture chamber Wednesday in a squalid and impoverished section of this southern Iraq city. A patrol found the small compound in northwestern Nasiriyah during a routine building search in which three American marines were wounded when they stepped on what was either an anti-personnel mine or an unexploded grenade. Marine Capt. Pete McAleer said the one-story building appeared to have been used by Iraqi police or Baath party security forces to torture prisoners, and to keep documents and identification cards for monitoring area residents. Some of the cards showed pictures of small children, although it was not clear why.
"The records were very detailed. It looks a bit too much like Nazi Germany to me," said McAleer, touring the compound, which was surrounded by a wall that included hand-painted outlines of people and tanks to use for target practice. Deep inside the building, there was a small room with no natural light, with the floor strewn with clothing and medicines, much of which was burned in a fire. Inside one of the room's five tiny cells, all with heavy barred doors, a wire was connected to a small hand cranked generator and steel bar. Marines who first searched the building said it had also been connected to a steel chair in what appeared to be a primitive electric chair. "Who knows what they did with that steel rod," McAleer said.
Lance Corporal James Jeffreys said that when he first saw the room it also had a type of wooden stock, designed so a rope could be wrapped around a prisoners neck, laced through holes in the wood, and then out through other holes that were used to bind their hands. "I believed it to be a police substation, but as soon as I got back in there I thought (of a torture chamber)," he said.
McAleer believes that after Marines had checked the building, local residents set the blaze to get rid of the gruesome reminder of Saddam Hussein's regime. "We have seen this done before," he said. "Once the locals know it is safe, they will come in and destroy" such police and government compounds.
Jeffreys said he also found photographs of badly burned human bodies scattered among documents strewn on the floor in other parts of the building. "From the position of the bodies, it looked like they could have been (burned) alive," said Jeffreys. Key documents and photographs that could be salvaged during the short initial search were turned over to superiors. I trust this is as upsetting as the limbless boy....
Posted by: Mark IV ||
04/09/2003 01:58 pm ||
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Ugh, please help with the link in the header...
Posted by: Mark IV ||
04/09/2003 14:28 Comments ||
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I don't like this "Once the locals know it is safe, they will come in and destroy" part. We need to save that evidence for war crime trials and, especially, to rub in the face of Micheal Moore, Martin Sheen, et al.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/09/2003 14:37 Comments ||
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Dar:
We can bring in the survivors (if there are any) and their relatives.
#4
I hope they save the documentation, at least, for proof. What is it anyway with mass murderers and their love of detailed notes of their destruction?
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 21:27 Comments ||
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#5
Yes, pj, but eyewitness testimony is always suspect. It's better to have physical proof--something tangible and irrefutable. As Fmr. Russian Maj. puts it, their "own detailed notes of their destruction" in their own handwriting would be the best damning evidence we could hope for.
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
04/09/2003 22:13 Comments ||
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U.S. and Iraqi officials will meet in southern Iraq on Saturday to begin planning for an interim Iraqi government, Vice President Dick Cheney said on Wednesday. "We will bring together representatives of groups from all over Iraq to begin to sit down and talk about planning for the future of this Iraqi interim authority and getting it up and running," Cheney told a meeting of U.S. newspaper editors. He said the meeting would be held near Nassiriyah in southern Iraq. Secretary of State Colin Powell said on Monday that Washington would send a team to Iraq this week to assess what is needed to set up an interim Iraqi authority.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 02:03 pm ||
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Source: Jihad Unspun
While networks around the world are showing pictures of jubilant Iraqis, albeit in areas that have suffered most under his regime including the very poor Saddam city and the Kurds in the North, the International Red Cross says sourly that the situation in downtown Baghdad is another story. In a phone interview from the centre of Baghdad, Red Cross representatives said that the situation is very hostile and that the American forces are "shooting at anything that moves", including one of their own convoys. At the time of this filing, the IRC have been unable to evacuate one of their seriously injured colleagues which may prove fatal. Tusk, tusk, as the elephant said...
The streets are scattered with casualties and US soldiers are firing at anyone that tries to evacuate them. The IRC says they are shooting at their clearly marked vehicles and preventing treatment of the wounded is not only against the Geneva Convention but "unacceptable". Shoulda thought about that before you loaned your ambos to the gunnies...
The situation in the city is extremely critical. Hospitals are reported to be overwhelmed by the inflow of war-wounded patients and some are without water or power. The water supply for Baghdad is becoming an issue of major concern following reports that the Qanat raw water pumping station in the north of the city has also stopped functioning.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 01:24 pm ||
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#1
Humph! You would think, that with as many reporters in Baghdad as there seem to be right now, and with a lot of those reporters just itching to get some dirt on the Americans, that there'd be footage of this kind of thing happening, but noooo...
I suspect that somebody in the IRC has a serious case of sour grapes.
Edited for length:
After two weeks spent deep in Kurdish-held territory, elements of the 173rd Airborne Brigade, augmented by newly arrived tanks from the 1st Infantry Division, have moved south to within 20 miles of the oil-rich city of Kirkuk to stage for future operations. The first forward elements moved out of Bashur Airfield Tuesday, just hours after the first M1 Abrams tank rolled off a C-17 transport plane. The rest of the brigade, and an unspecified number of tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles, is to follow. Commanders say they cannot publicly discuss their plans, but they promise that a ground attack against Iraqi forces arrayed along the line with the Kurdish region is not far off.
The Special Forces briefing offered insights into what has essentially been a low-visibility, non-conventional northern front: Small numbers of highly trained American troops, backed by air strikes, have helped Kurdish peshmergas push Iraqi forces miles from their original positions. "They have just fallen back completely," said Sgt. Tom Flaherty, as he stood in front of a map studded with decals representing the locations of Special Forces teams and Iraqi units. But, he said, "They're dug in pretty good."
Flaherty told 173rd officers that Iraqi Fedayeen soldiers were embedded with the forces around Kirkuk to prevent surrenders. He also cited intelligence suggesting threats from both suicide bombers and chemical weapons loaded on artillery shells.
The paratroopers who moved south Tuesday, including those of Able Company, 2nd Battalion, 503rd Airborne Infantry, drove several hours south in a convoy of humvees and five-ton trucks mounted with heavy machine guns and grenade launchers. Along the route's crumbling and destitute inhabited areas, Kurds stepped out from their shops and houses to cheer and wave at the passing Americans. Young children ran toward the vehicles, shouting "Hello" in English. The soldiers grinned and waved back. "This is the coolest thing we've done so far," said Sgt. Chris Charo, 24, of Saratoga, N.Y. "I wish some of these anti-war protesters could see this." They'd refuse to look
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 12:41 pm ||
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#1
The Big Red One is moving in, too? All I've heard about so far is the 4ID?
Posted by: Dar ||
04/09/2003 14:40 Comments ||
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#2
They've been flying in a few 1st ID tanks and Bradleys from Germany. Very quietly building up, you haven't seen any reports from up at that northern airfield, have you? Just video of Kurds and a few SF types out in the country.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 15:16 Comments ||
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Edited for length:
As US tank columns headed into the heart of Baghdad on Wednesday, American commanders were turning their attention to finishing off the Iraqi regime in its 'tribal heartland' of Tikrit. An advanced brigade of the US Army's 4th Infantry Division is already motoring north out of Kuwait and "within days" will be moving past Baghdad ready to launch what could be the last battle of the war. Helicopters and C130 Hercules have also been ferrying the division's troops, supplies and equipment into forward airstrips deep inside Iraq to bolster the drive north. More troops from the division will be close on their heels, giving America's Middle East commander, Tommy Franks, the troops needed to punch past Tikrit to occupy Mosul and Kirkuk in the sensitive Kurdish region of northern Iraq.
US officers say that the Iraqi Republican Guard's Adnan Division retreated to Tikrit with a number of senior figures in the regime, suggesting that a bloody battle could be expected. However, once Tikrit is overrun they expect a less resistance in Kirkuk and Mosul, where some 100,000 regular army troops are understood to be keen to surrender to US soldiers rather than Kurdish peshmerga fighters. I don't know, the Kurds have been treating the regular troops pretty good so far.
The Adnan division is now the main focus of US airpower, with almost around the clock air strikes being launched against the last large formation of the once feared Republican Guard still in the field. Feared by the press, anyway
It is hoped that by the time the 4th Infantry gets into close contact, the Adnan's troops will show as little inclination to fight as their comrades involved in the defence of Baghdad. If there is anyone left
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 12:31 pm ||
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#1
Next Steps:
1. Complete taking control of Baghdad. Reports that there is still resistance near University, in Mansour district.
2. Take Tikrit (task to 4th ID) then proceed to rest of Sunni heartland
3. North. Kurds and Spec ops have closed on the cities, but for political reasons Kurds cant take cities. When sufficient armor arrives (at least 1 full brigade of 1st ID?) US forces move into Kirkuk. Then move into Mosul, link up with 4th ID, spec ops coming from west.
4. Complete establishing order in Basra, Nasariyah, Najaf, Karbala.
5. Begin establishing order in Baghdad.
6. Restablish water and power in Basra, other southern cities.
7. Emergeny water supplies, medical supplies to Baghdad.
8. Establish regional council of Iraqis for South - scheduled for Saturday. Center awaits pacification, north resolution of Turkish/Kurdish issues.
Baghdad radio has resumed broadcasts on Wednesday. Although the power of the radio signal is unsteady yet, the radio has been playing patriotic songs. Broadcasts of Iraqi radio and television were cut short on Tuesday after the Air Force of the anti-Iraqi coalition had made air strikes on Iraqi communication facilities.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 11:44 am ||
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#1
"Goooooood Morninnnnnngggg, Baghdad! This is SSgt Sonny Brooks for the Armed Forces Radio and Television Service!
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 11:53 Comments ||
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#2
The coalition should start broadcasting on Iraqi television. Just put a camera in the square where the statue fell and let any iraqi who wants to talk speak to to the camera in Arabic. Broadcast it throughout Iraq and the Arab world.
Might not have to fight for Mosul if the word gets out.
Iraqi paramilitaries have reportedly been withdrawing from the government-controlled town of Khanaqin in recent days and heading towards central areas of the country. Talking to IRNA, an informed source in the Khosravi border strip said on Wednesday that US and British warplanes and an artillery of United States forces have been heavily bombarding Iraqi military posiitons in Khanaqin and its outskirts over the past few weeks. It said the city is almost totally controlled by coalition forces, Iraqi military forces having fled the city for the central areas near Baghdad. That may not be a good place to be a paramilitary at this moment. Maybe later, okay?
US troops stationed in northern Iraq have heavily bombarded all Iraqi military positions and important centers near Khanaqin in recent days. It said several loud explosions emanating from Khanaqin and its outskirts could be heard in nearby Khosravi and Qasr-e Shirin checkpoints.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 11:42 am ||
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#1
Probably heading toward Tikrit. Maybe we should suggest that the foreign Jehadis go there and rally around their hero Saddam.
U.S. and British intelligence sources were both reporting late last night that Hussein survived the latest attack on a building in Baghdad.
MI6, the British spy agency, told the CIA it believes Hussein left the building just before the bombs hit. The CIA was still reportedly clinging to hope that Hussein was killed. Hussein escaped a similar bomb attack on the opening night of the war March 19.
I'm doubtful this is true, especially since the statements aren't really sourced. But if it IS true (big IS) then somebody high up better be considering the following: There were just 12 minutes between the order and when the bombs were dropped. Sadaam might have gotten lucky the first time. But twice would indicate he had intel. Sadaam with intel of the quality that travels from CENTCOM to Sadaam in less than 12 minutes?? Now THAT is frightening INDEED!
Posted by: Becky ||
04/09/2003 10:46 am ||
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#1
here is another link with the same claim
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,932750,00.html
#2
Actually I read that the whole operation took 45min's so that is quite a big window. It took 12min's for the B1's to get to target. But, it took 30mins for the order to go through.
Posted by: George ||
04/09/2003 11:18 Comments ||
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#3
You've gotta like the knowledge that Saladin Jr can't stay more than an hour in one place without fearing a steel lobotomy...gonna make those bags under the eyes big enough to pack luggage in
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/09/2003 11:38 Comments ||
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#4
Actually, it has crossed my mind that he sent a group of doubles in to that building to check his security.
Maybe he suspected a mole in his organization.
Just a thought
Posted by: Michael ||
04/09/2003 11:50 Comments ||
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#5
I'm surprised that you would say 45min is "quite a big window". Wouldn't even 45 minutes suggest that our most priviliged intel is severely compromised? Ass-u-me-ing he escaped in the nick of time, it happened not once - but twice. It seems to me that the available technological methods for obtaining this information would be VERY limited. A mole would have had to have been at the very top AND have a means to quickly communicate with Saddam.
Perhaps Sadaam had to let the cat out of the bag in order for him to use up one of his remaining 9 lives. If so, finding out where the breach came from will be huge to the success of future US conflicts against more formidable enemies.
#7
Michael, if you are right, it would have exactly the opposite effect of exposing breaches in our security. Instead, it would expose allied breaches into Sadaams. Not good.
#8
One theory I've heard is that Saddam leaked that he would be there in order to trick the US into bombing. Testing to see who he could trust? Tell one person "I'm going to X location" another "Y" and so on. When we bomb "X" he knows where the leak is. What does he care who dies as long as he finds the leak.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 13:41 Comments ||
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#9
Couple of possibilities come to mind. (1) Saddam hoped the US would try to grab him and set an ambush. Hoping for a Blackhawk Down type scenerio. This explains why he would seem to meet his guys so close to US tanks at the parade ground. The US didn't take the bait, but blasted the location hoping to pick up chatter later that might be useful. (2) Saddam hopes to hide and play dead so we don't look all over for him. It wouldn't be hard to set up one of his doubles to take the hit for him. (3) US killed him on the first night and wants the fakers pretending his alive to have to prove so, again, to his die-hards.
#10
Do you suppose that this was such a secret meeting that the only people who knew about it were the people there? Sammy was paranoid and worried about his security. Suppose the entire surviving leadership was there, everyone's dead, and nobody knows?
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 15:40 Comments ||
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Edited for length:
CALLING THEMSELVES mujaheddin, or holy warriors, the Arab fighters have come largely over the border from Syria, sometimes by the busload, according to U.S. military intelligence. In Baghdad in the past few days, U.S. officers said, some of these fighters have stormed into private homes and used them to ambush invading U.S. Army and Marine columns, sometimes hiding behind women and children. The Arab fighters have come from Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Algeria, Morocco, Yemen and the Palestinian territories, according to information collected by U.S. officers from prisoner interrogations and other intelligence. Picking through the pockets of the dead
Three nights ago, a Marine unit captured nine Sudanese fighters, two Syrians and an Egyptian after a firefight on Highway 6 leading into Baghdad, officers said. Most of those taken prisoner so far have been ordinary men with little or no military training, except for some from the Palestinian territories. The arrival of foreigners has strained relations between the United States and Syria, the transit point for most of them. U.S. intelligence concluded that a bus struck near the Iraq-Syria border by U.S. warplanes on March 23 carried Palestinian and other Arab men traveling to Iraq to fight in Iraqâs defense. Top U.S. officials have publicly warned Syria not to come to Iraqâs aid. Guess that airstrike wasn't a "mistake" after all.
U.S. officers said the guerrillas began coming as soon as war broke out on March 20. âSome are absolutely devoted to anti-Zionism or anti-Americanism,â said a senior officer who asked not to be identified. âSome believe they are coming in solidarity of their Arab brothers.â Others were lured under false pretenses, he said. âThey thought they were going to get a wife. . . . A lot of these guys, this isnât what they signed up for, and theyâre pretty upset. They were forced to fight.â "Hey, where are all the babes?"
In some small towns and along the highways between Kuwait and Baghdad, Arab fighters in pickup trucks have fired assault rifles at tanks and armored vehicles, despite the near certainty of being killed by superior firepower. The U.S. armored vehicles just mow down the attackers, officers said. Speed bumps
More recently, the Arab guerrillas have made their way to Baghdad, with most of them coming from Yemen and the militant Lebanese group Hezbollah, according to U.S. intelligence.
Marine officers said they hope to stanch the flow of arriving foreigners with quick and decisive military victories in Baghdad. Other officers said they were eager to kill as many of the foreign guerrillas as possible in Iraq because it will prevent terrorist attacks on civilian targets elsewhere. âThey should send every volunteer they can think of here,â said Col. Larry Brown, the chief operations officer for the Marines in Iraq. âLet me get âem all at once. Itâll simplify my task later.âAmen, Larry.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 10:25 am ||
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#1
Hard boys with 7.62 x 39's take on a howitzer. Lesson learned: If you want to play army, joining a terrorist camp is not the right way to go. The result is 100% sure.
Posted by: George ||
04/09/2003 10:58 Comments ||
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#2
Other officers said they were eager to kill as many of the foreign guerrillas as possible in Iraq because it will prevent terrorist attacks on civilian targets elsewhere.
I had privately hoped, with a little guilt, that as many jehadis and suicide bombers as possible would make their way to Iraq, since it was the "job" of our military to be the target of such attacks. I hate it intensely when our fine soldiers get killed by these Islamofacists. The above quote proves that they are not only aware that this is their "job", but that they're eager to do it.
God bless the Coalition and our soldiers! I'm going to make another donation to the USO care package program. My only regret is that I probably won't be able to get to any victory parades, cheer our troops, and stomp on the toes of any anti-war protestors.
#3
The field of battle is the best place to meet them. Especially when the battlefield is already a rout and the bad guys are as likely to catch fire from the rear as from us.
#4
My only regret is that I probably won't be able to get to any victory parades, cheer our troops, and stomp on the toes of any anti-war protestors.
Ptah - Consider me your proxy! As soon as the 3rd Cav gets back and has a victory parade in Co. Springs, I'll be there! I'll even wear my steel-toed jump boots with the metal cleats, designed just for stomping bare feet in thong "peace" sandals.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/09/2003 19:21 Comments ||
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Edited for length:
In one of many small-scale engagements in and around Baghdad on Tuesday, two Marine snipers on a rooftop and others in tanks and Humvees topped with machine guns killed approaching Iraqis one by one throughout the morning, often from hundreds of yards away. When members of the 3rd battalion, 7th Marine Regiment reached the elevated cloverleaf in the southeastern part of the city before midnight Monday, all was quiet but for bombs exploding in the distance. Then, about 4:30 a.m., two Marines snipers on a rooftop noticed a truck pull up a few hundred yards away. Using his night vision scope, Sgt. Joshua Hamblin, 26, of Wichita, Kan., saw the silhouette of a man with a rifle, took aim and shot him. He fired again at another man, and a Marine machine gunner also opened fire. The remaining men from the truck grabbed the two bodies and sped off.
About two hours later, another man wandered into the street carrying a rifle. "He had no idea we were here," Hamblin said. After he was hit, Hamblin said, another man grabbed the rifle and ran off as the dying man begged for help. For the rest of the morning, armed Iraqis, often alone or in pairs, wandered toward the Marines only to be shot by the snipers. Many died instantly, others were wounded and dragged by comrades into alleys or driven away. At one point, a man in a black ski mask with a rifle in the bed of a truck pulled up behind a group of civilians. The snipers said they aimed high to scatter the civilians, then shot him. Reach out and touch someone
About 7 a.m., a truck with a machine gun mount — but no machine gun attached to it — raced down the highway, and the Marines started firing, using machine guns, grenade launchers and their rifles. The truck flew into reverse, racing back about 100 yards before stopping. One man opened the a door and fell out. Then another, apparently missing an arm, ran down the highway. Some Marines prepared to shoot, but their commanders stopped them. Behind a sand berm facing the highway, Kelley and Cpl. William D. Palmer, 22, of Kansas City, Mo., suddenly felt bullets flying past and turned to see a minibus racing less then 200 yards away. As heavy gunners raked the bus with gunfire, a man in an Iraqi uniform jumped out and was chased through the street by rounds from a machine gun, kicking up dust at his feet and then killing him. Medic Brent Cook, 23, of Houston, raced out to help the other two Iraqis in the bus and discovered military identification in one man's pocket. "You are a soldier?" he asked. "Please don't kill me," the man responded. Palmer said he thought the soldiers were probably heading home, discovered too late the Marines were there and fired in fear. Near the underpass, a Marine vehicle with speakers blasted a message in Arabic: "People of Baghdad, do not attempt to pick up the weapons. Any attempt to pick up the weapons will be a threat against us and have serious consequences." Good advice
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 10:06 am ||
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#1
Turkey Shoot? We shooting the cowardly Turks now? Better watch out Murat.
Nah - the Turks, erm Turkeys, dont get into war with people who can shoot back (when they do, they lose, like they do to the Greeks), they prefer to pick on unarmed minorities like Armenians and Kurds.
Actually, this shows how the years of ruling via fear have addled the minds of the Iraqi overlords. They just cannot believe that they have lost, and are still tying to act as if they still have their old power. Seems a .308/7.62 round in the head from 700 yards is teaching them otherwise.
#5
If you move on into Turkish Kurdistan you might liberate some more innocent prisoners and maybe find some torture chambers there, too.
Although to liberate the democratically elected Kurdish members of the Turkish parliament who serve prison times of up to 15 years just for using the Kurdish language in parliament you might have to move on a little further to Ankara.
Just a suggestion...
#7
TGA - 1. Turkey has no WMD, or related legal issues
2. "democratically elected Kurdish members of the Turkish parliament who serve prison times of up to 15 years just for using the Kurdish language in parliament" Surely you understand the difference between this violation of cultural rights, and the genocide perpetrated by the Saddamist regime in Iraq? Surely you dont mean to suggest that because we destroyed the worst regime on the planet we are obliged to deal with every violation of cultural and language rights? Surely, as a German, (sorry, I cant resist) you can understand the difference between a military dominated,semi-democratic regime that culturally oppresses a minority (EG Imperial Germany,which oppressed its Polish minority) and a totalitarian genocidal regime (I hope I dont have to name the German example)
#8
Please name the German example... I survived it. Plus the Soviet one a few years later.
If you read my posts you'd know that I have all sympathy for the liberation of Iraq. What stuck in my throat is that until the Turks refused the cooperation they were the wonderful allies that the US wanted to push into the EU. Only after that the Armenian genocide and the oppression of the Kurds was brought up.
The Kurds in Anatolia may not have been gassed but they suffer a slow, silent genocide. I have been in Kurdish villages and have seen what this means.
Frankly I'm not sure who has killed more Kurds: Saddam or Turkey.
#9
The nickname Pogey Bait 6th is referring to the 6th Marine Regiment, not the 7th Marines. However, It wouldn't be wise to make that remark to a Marine in that regiment.
Edited for content:
A top U.S. State Department official said Wednesday that the war on Iraq should be a lesson for other regimes pursuing weapons of mass destruction, but insisted that the United States is seeking the peaceful elimination of those weapons programs. John R. Bolton, undersecretary of state for arms control and international security, spoke to reporters after meetings with Vatican officials on proposals for humanitarian assistance and postwar reconstruction in Iraq. He was asked about speculation that Syria and Iran could be America's next targets after the war in Iraq. "We are hopeful that a number of regimes will draw the appropriate lesson from Iraq that the pursuit of weapons of mass destruction is not in their national interest," Bolton said. He's from State?
Bolton emphasized that the United States considered Iraq a distinct case because attempts to eliminate its weapons have gone on for 12 years. "This is a wonderful opportunity for Syria to forswear the pursuit of weapons of mass destruction and, as with other governments in the region, to see if there are not new possibilities in the Middle East peace process," Bolton said. I'd say that was a strong hint
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 09:35 am ||
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#2
We are hopeful that a number of regimes will draw the appropriate lesson from Iraq
Which is that while you can defy the UN with impunity, you better listen to what the USA and its allies say.
This is an object lesson far beyond the Arab world. About time IMHO!
Posted by: Phil B ||
04/09/2003 10:01 Comments ||
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#3
Yet another sign that that at least some parts of the State Department have figured out that they work for the USA. September 11th cleared more than few heads.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
04/09/2003 11:11 Comments ||
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#4
IIUC Bolton is not Foreign Service, he's a neocon Cheney insisted on. Cabinet members dont generally pick their direct reports, IIUC, the White House does.
#5
State Dept.: Oh, and while your autocratic regimes crumble from the accumulation of backwards values and willful ignorance, our nation grows stronger every day, our military grows stronger every day. Iraq was supposed to be the non-Isreali bad-ass of the Middle East, and they folded within a month. Eh, ah Assad, you think the Syrian people would support you...or US?
#6
Yeah, liberalhawk is right, Bolton is a political appointee. Rest assured that a bunch of State is trying to undermine him as we speak. But, it's still nice to hear.
Posted by: John Thacker ||
04/09/2003 12:42 Comments ||
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#7
Bolton must be working for the DOD, State is an official annex of the Chiraq government.
Posted by: TJ Jackson ||
04/10/2003 0:43 Comments ||
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Saddam Hussein's secret archives could already be in Moscow despite American Central Intelligence Agency's bid to block their evacuation by firing at the Russian diplomatic convoy near Baghdad on Sunday, media reported on Wednesday. Quoting intelligence sources "Nezavisimaya Gazeta" on Wednesday reported that Sunday's attack by the US rangers on the Russian ambassador's convoy near Baghdad was a 'direct clash between Russian's Foreign Intelligence Service SVR and CIA.
Moscow had asked the US for safe passage from Baghdad to Syria for its ambassador's convoy and a "Predator" drone was hovering over it all along the way from the embassy in Baghdad transmitting live video pictures, the daily said ruling out any case of mistaken identity by the US troops which fired at it. "CIA was under the impression that SVR was evacuating Saddam's secret archives under the diplomatic cover of ambassador's convoy... this also explains why at several occasions after the firing the American troops had tried to search Russian vehicles," Nezavisimaya Gazeta wrote.
It also noted that though the Iraqi escort vans were totally destroyed by the Americans along with their occupants, in case of the Russians they tried to put their vehicles out of order to prevent further movement. "All the details we could learn only after fifty years in 2053, when SVR is expected to declassify its secret documents relating to the operation," Nezavisimaya Gazeta said. Can't wait till 2053
Posted by: rg117 ||
04/09/2003 09:32 am ||
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#1
The Russians seized the evidence, and teh US let them do it. That really burns me. They should have stopped them and arrested them long enough to search their vehicles, and gave them "safe passage". This Diplocrap has cost the US a HUGE score. Whoever is responsible for letting them go should probably get fired. Hope it was Tenets' idea.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
04/09/2003 9:49 Comments ||
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#2
I wouldn't worry, there is going to loads of evidence when the smoke clears. This took most of them by surprise.
Posted by: George ||
04/09/2003 10:00 Comments ||
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#3
I don't buy it for a second.
1)it was the iraqis/jihadis that shot up the russkie convoy, no rangers involved.
2)consider the sources.
3)sheer volume. paper is bulky and heavy. The russkies were wanting to move fast.
#6
The fact that we did not search the Russians means to me that we probably have the *electronic* and microfiche copies of all that stuff. You can bet that those intelligence types sold as much of that stuff to BOTH sides as they coudl - to better line their pockets so they could escape.
If the CIA didnt cut another deal, then Tenent should be fired.
#7
Definitely sounds like Tenet. Never liked him, don't trust him. OTH, the Russkies did't make off with everything - there's still plenty of goodies to be found.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
04/09/2003 11:51 Comments ||
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#8
Maybe, maybe not. I could see them grabbing a few things but not masses of stuff. It would also be in our best interest to let people believe this to be the case.
#9
If our Rangers had fired on the Russians, the Russians would be dead. It obviously wasn't us.
Posted by: B. ||
04/09/2003 15:21 Comments ||
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#10
I'll second Mojo's observations. Even the most sensitive paperwork of this outfit would fill semis/lorries/juggernauts. If paperwork was smuggled out, it was done earlier and by other methods. I don't doubt much of it has disappeared, but inconvenient paperwork has a way of turning up and embarrassing moments. No doubt tons of it is in the hands of scientists, engineers, brokers, purchasing agents, generals, et alia, who will be happy to exchange it for their personal freedom and a meaningful job under the new government.
Hundreds of Muslim fighters, many of them non-Iraqis, were putting up a stronger fight for Baghdad than Iraq's Republican Guard or the regular army, a top United States military officer said yesterday. Appears the RG has now dropped below "vaunted" to "invisible".
"They stand, they fight, sometimes they run when we engage them," Brigadier-General John Kelly said."But often they run into our machine guns and we shoot them down like the morons they are." Looks like they buy into the 72 virgins thing. Brave, horny, dumb...dead.
General Kelly, assistant commander of the about 20,000-strong 1st Marine Division, said US intelligence indicated that there might be anywhere between 500 and 5000 of the fighters, whom he described as terrorists."They appear willing to die. We are trying our best to help them out in that endeavour," he said. Looks like the Iraqis aren't the only threat we're eliminating.
General Kelly said a captured Syrian fighter who had his leg blown off had refused medical help. "They are arrogant. They are determined," he said. If that's what he wants, then let him bleed.
The fighters were armed with AK47 rifles and hand-held rockets, he said. "We are finding them more dangerous than the conventional Iraqi units." General Kelly said pockets of the Republican Guard and Iraq's regular army were engaging thousands of US marines who had entered Baghdad from the north-east after seizing control of bridges across the Tigris River. The resistance was uncoordinated, he said."There's no shifting of forces ... there are no reinforcements ... there is no cohesion to the whole thing." Any rational military command would have surrendered by now, he said. Key word: "rational".
"There can be no escape." General Kelly said marines were about to seize buildings and land in Baghdad that were of strategic importance."Once we take ground we tend not to give it up." Moshe Dayan was asked once what the best tactic was to become a victorious general. He said, "Fight Arabs."
Posted by: tu3031 ||
04/09/2003 08:42 am ||
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#1
No offense to Brooks, but could Kelly run a press conference for once? Sounds like that would be a show I'd pay to view...
#3
These "fierce" fighters from Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLA, etc, didnt look so good up against trained infantry, instead of their usual target of unarmed women and children. They lost over 1000 dead for every US Marine *wounded*, in terms of the terrorist wannabees (i.e. the didnt manage to kill any Marines)
It was rather nice of the Hezbollah to go charging into the Marines sector - the Marines have 20 years of payback saved up from the bombing of the Barracks in Beirut. The Marines are serving it up cold, and in large volumes.
Raw fact: the more Murat-like zealots that kill themselves now by charging armored vehicles with AKs, the less of them that we will have to help the Iraqi police hunt down later.
Edited for length:
A hundred miles north of Baghdad, Saddam Hussein's home town of Tikrit is bracing for the last battle, and what may prove to be the last stand of the Iraqi regime as the newly arrived U.S. 4th Division raced north from Kuwait to tackle the regime's last stronghold. Better hurry if you want those combat ribbons
After British intelligence sources Tuesday clamed that Saddam had "escaped by minutes" the four 2,000 pound satellite guided bombs from a B-1 bomber that tried to target him in a suburban Baghdad restaurant, there are growing suspicions that he has made his escape from the beleaguered capital to Tikrit. Believed to contain the last intact Republican Guard units, from the Adnan and al-Nida divisions, Tikrit also contains a major air base, the Iraqi Air Force academy and Saddam's Tharthar Palace. Now smoking craters, most likely
Allied air reconnaissance has established that nests of anti-aircraft guns are posted on rooftops throughout the city, and networks of defensive bunkers guard the approaches. "We believe that Tikrit is a stronghold for the regime leadership," commented U.S. military spokesman Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks. "Tikrit has not escaped our attention, nor has it escaped our targeting." Saddam's family name is al-Tikriti, signaling his birthplace some 65 years ago, and his tribe has been the greatest beneficiaries of his long regime. The al-Tikriti clan dominated the top ranks of the military and the Mukhabarat secret police. During his reign, the population of this sleepy, dusty town on the edge of the Syrian Desert swelled from less than 100,000 to over 260,000 as public buildings, palaces and military bases were built to reflect the new glory of the al-Tikriti. The town's glory is unlikely to survive the Saddam Hussein regime, and any attempt at a last stand will met an ugly fate from massed coalition air power and the high-tech weaponry of the 4th Division eager to win its spurs after fruitless weeks of waiting on ships of the Turkish coast, refused permission to land. These guys are pissed, better give up before they arrive
So far under strong U.S. political pressure, backed up by the presence of the arrival by parachute late last month of the 173rd Airborne brigade, the Kurdish Pesh Merga militia have not advanced beyond their mountain strongholds to take Kirkup and Mosul. The Iraqi garrisons have withdrawn some 20 miles, under steady U.S air bombardments, but have not abandoned the two cities, which dominate Iraq's rich northern oilfields. Kurdish leaders, who have built up their own autonomous regions under U.S. and British air cover over the lest 12 years of the No-Fly Zone, insist that they understand Turkish fears and the political realities and will be content with an autonomous Kurdistan within an Iraqi federation. But as allies with the United States against Saddam's regime, and with the traditionally Kurdish city of Kirkup spread out tantalizingly below their advanced posts, the Kurds will not be easily dissuaded from trying to establish the independent state they have been seeking since the fall of the Ottoman empire 85-years-ago. The arrival of the U.S. 4th Division in the north gives coalition commanders a new political tool to help decide the political fate of the north. And armored reinforcements have been landing over the past 24 hours at the 173rd brigade's airbase at Hariri in the Kurdish-held region of northern Iraq, the first time M1-A2 Abrams tanks have been landed by air in a combat zone. Been waiting for these guys to appear, wonder which way they are headed, south to Mosul or north to the Turkish border?
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 08:53 am ||
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#1
A "sleepy, dusty town" of 100,000? That doesn't quite jive with me...
Posted by: Dar ||
04/09/2003 9:39 Comments ||
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#2
Does anybody know where the British are getting their Intel from? The French? If they know that he escaped before we did, we need to get some better intel. If the CIA gets "Out-Intelled" in this war by the Brits and the Russians, It should be a reminder of how badly neglected our CIA is. I'm not saying that the Brits or the Russians have been historically anyhting but good with Intel, I'm just saying that the CIA needs to be better than them. Especially the backstabbing Russians.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
04/09/2003 10:00 Comments ||
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Didn't the CIA go to the dogs in the 1990s by relying too little on human-intelligence and too much on technological intelligence like satellites?
I imagine it takes time to reestablish good spy rings, where as the British may still have good long-established informants.
Posted by: A ||
04/09/2003 12:19 Comments ||
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#4
The Brits and Russian intelligence services never had to deal with the Church committee and Admiral Stansfield Turner. Only to be further ripped apart when Iran/Contra fell apart ten years later. Let's not forget that 8 years of Clintonian neglect and that Tenet is a Clinton appointee.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
04/09/2003 12:19 Comments ||
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#5
If there was any town that deserved a world war 2 style carpet bombing Tikrit is it.
#6
Technical stuff like satellites generally belongs ot the NRO and the NSA. Our problem is the inverse - we de-emphasized HUMINT for too long (its much harder than SIGINT, and less reliable as well), but now thats the most effective stuff against terror organizations. HUMINT means you have to deal with some slimy characters, and people have to make judegement calls on whether someone is lying or not, and the risk they are willing to personally assume.
Unfortunately, the fingerpointing, poll-driven policy and the disingenuous nature of the US Administrations during the 1990's (Clinton, and to a lesser extent the elder Bush) precluded any real ability to develop good HUMINT.
Edited for length:
U.S. and Kurdish forces dislodged Iraqis from a mountain used to defend the northern city of Mosul on Wednesday, their biggest victory yet in the war in northern Iraq. "That area was heavily defended by Iraqis throughout the campaign. From our perspective this is the most important gain of the northern front so far," said Hoshiyar Zebari, political adviser to Kurdistan Democratic Party leader Massoud Barzani. Zebari said U.S. forces, allied with local Kurdish fighters, took the Maqloub mountain, some nine miles northeast of Mosul, in the early hours of Wednesday. "We were surprised by the lack of resistance," Zebari added. Asked if there was any likely Iraqi resistance between the mountain and Mosul, Zebari said: "No, basically the city has fallen."
Serbest Babiri, local commander of the KDP fighters, also said he thought Mosul would be easy to take. "My expectation is that it will not be difficult as the morale of the Iraqi troops is very low," he told Reuters on top of Mount Maqloub. "This is a very strategic position and as a military man I am very happy to be here," he said, standing near the 1,600-year old Saint Matthew monastery, which belongs to the Syriac Orthodox Christian church based in Damascus.
Zebari said he thought the U.S. forces and Kurdish "peshmerga" fighters would now march on Mosul, Iraq's third largest city, some 240 miles north of Baghdad. Zebari said the Iraqis retreated, leaving behind air defense systems, radar and many weapons and other equipment. He added that informal contacts between Iraqi officials in Mosul and Kirkuk and Kurdish leaders were on the increase, and suspected they now saw that President Saddam Hussein's government could not survive long. "They see the demise of the regime and we've seen an increase in those contacts," he said. When they get the word from Baghdad, they'll fold.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 08:24 am ||
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#1
The word will have to come from Tikrit, I'd think.
Three decades of rule by Saddam Hussein appeared to be collapsing in Baghdad today, as US troops mopping up fading resistance there were cheered by jubilant Iraqis. US central command said it was premature to say the war was won, as some areas of Baghdad were still under the control of Saddam loyalists. But with looting breaking out unhindered, it was clear his regime was unravelling. Guardian reporter James Meek, who was with US marines in Baghdad, said resistance to the Americans had "all but collapsed". Downing Street said "command and control in Baghdad appeared to have disintegrated". TV pictures showed Iraqis welcoming US forces and chaotic scenes of government buildings being looted without any sign of Iraqi police or troops keeping order. There were also reports of Iraqis celebrating in the city of Irbil, 220 miles north of Baghdad. In Baghdad, the United Nations headquarters and shops near the Olympic Committee's building were ransacked, as were military installations, government buildings and research institutions. Government computers, furniture and even military jeeps were taken from sites around the city. There were also signs that Iraq's efforts to sustain its public relations campaign were collapsing after government-employed journalists' minders failed to turn up for their work. Baghdad Bob is home working on his resume.
Uncensored reports by foreign reporters began to come from the capital and Iraqi state television was off the air. Resistance seemed to fade as increasing numbers of US troops moved through the city, hunting down small bands of Iraqi fighters. The action followed one of quietest nights in Baghdad since the conflict began. The fate of President Saddam remained unknown, but his loyalists retained control of the Baghdad neighbourhood targeted by bunker-busting bombs in Monday's US strike that was intended to kill him. US troops advanced on central Baghdad from the south-west of the city. Other units steadily expanded their reach, opening a new northern corridor in Baghdad. They secured a military airport, a prison and set fire to a Republican Guard barracks. From the south-east, marines secured routes inside the city and pursued small, roving bands of Iraqis armed with rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons. In one neighbourhood, numerous civilians flashed thumbs-ups to the US troops. Careful, guys. It ain't over yet.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 07:48 am ||
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#1
The citizens looted the UN headquarters? Shows what the Iraqis think of them.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 8:00 Comments ||
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#3
Somebody should tell them the location of the Al Jazeera HQ, the Peace shield HQ and the motel room of Robert Fisk is; maybe some nice souvenirs there.
#4
Hah! No link, but I saw on FoxNews two Iraqis marching down a road with a sign that seemed to say, "go home HUMAN SHIELDS!"
. In Baghdad, the United Nations headquarters and shops near the Olympic Committee's building were ransacked, as were military installations, government buildings and research institutions. Contrary to first blush, the Research institutions are no big loss, since the Iraqis are convinced they were used to develop WMD and not cancer cures.
#6
Well the looting should make the hard-core lefties happy, get some wealth redistribution going, eh what? Get your gold-plated toilets while they last.
Saw the same sign on FNC, it looked like the two guys commandeered a white sign that had stenciled on it the words "Human Shields" and wrote on it to change it to say: "Go Home Human Shields No U.S. Wankers"
Not exactly sure how to take that one... but they were milling about the soldiers and seemed happy to see them.
Still not a lot of reaction, I don't think the news has sunk in. But people I have spoken to have said these are crowds of looters welcoming the Americans and we're not seeing the whole picture.
To them an Arab country has been occupied by the Americans, even if some Iraqis are happy."
I expect a real break between Iraqis and other arabs, much like Kuwaitis and other arabs. Should be interesting times.
#12
I thought the sign was meant to be "Anti- Reality"... I thought it may have been a sign that human shields planned to hold up to prevent coalition soldiers from advancing on a position. Great "useful Idiot" photo op. They then hand wrote in "GO HOME You US Wankers" in handwritten red ink. I interpreted that the 2 guys may have been Human Shields who just realized their positions as "tools of the regime" may have just been eliminated,and they may not be able to cash their final paychecks. I saw then draw a small crowd, and then people, including soldiers, would walk away from them. I think they were disappointed to have spent there summer vacations being irrelavent.
(Shit man, we didn't even get laid)
He has pix captured from the FOX News feed. There is an earlier shot of the men with the banner. There are some Marines in the picture, being hugged and having their hands shook. Seems clear to me the guys were pissed at the U.S. human shields, not the U.S. forces.
#14
"Somebody should tell them the location of the Al Jazeera HQ, the Peace shield HQ and the motel room of Robert Fisk is; maybe some nice souvenirs there."
Maybe Fiskie's bollocks - they clank, and he's only been using them for pyrotechnic displays. I don't think he's got a permit for the fireworks, so he shouldn't have them anyway.
British military divers are searching for evidence of chemical weapons in a flooded underground bunker at what they believe was "Chemical Ali's" intelligence headquarters. Ali Hassan al-Majid's complex was largely destroyed in a bombing raid in 1998, but an Iraqi has identified a hidden bunker walled off from the main building. The bunker, near Basra in southern Iraq, appeared to have been deliberately flooded.
A specialist Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) team, based at Honington, Suffolk, was called in on Tuesday to test the water for traces of weapons. Initial tests by the Joint NBC Regiment failed to show any traces of chemical or biological agents. Officers said the results did not rule out the possibility that they could be stored in watertight containers inside the bunker. On Wednesday, specialist divers were stepping up the hunt by diving down to the padlocked bunker.
Captain Ken Jolley, of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, said he was told about the intelligence compound by the Iraqi informant. Captain Jolley, from King's Lynn in Norfolk, said without the informant they would never have known about a secret stairway leading to the bunker. "We don't know yet what is in the basement section, but hopefully the divers will be able to find that out," he said. You don't go to all that effort just to hide your kids' 'Id al Fitr presents.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
04/09/2003 06:41 am ||
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Street battles here sometimes take bizarre turns. On Tuesday, hours after an intense firefight around the Republican Presidential Palace, U.S. troops took a tip from an Iraqi furniture upholsterer and blew up a building. After soldiers from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division fought their way to an intersection near Damascus Square, they noticed a few dozen Iraqis cheering them on. One of the soldiers went into the crowd to talk to them. Ahmed (who asked that his real name not be used because he fears reprisals) stood out. He told the soldiers about a building where he said Republican Guard soldiers were hiding. He offered to help locate the building. This guy is a gem!
''This is the guy who seemed to know the most about where everybody is,'' said Sgt. Spencer Willardson , 24, of Logan, Utah, a National Guard reservist, who was working for military intelligence. A portly man of 40 who teaches youth soccer, Ahmed was at the bottom rung of prewar Baghdad society â financially struggling. First, Ahmed told the soldiers that residents in his neighborhood were eager to tear down and destroy a three-story portrait of Saddam hanging from the Interior Ministry Building. The soldiers, in tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles, and several reporters drove to the site. The Americans blocked the intersection with their vehicles. But to Ahmed's embarrassment and anger, his neighbors were more interested in looting. About two dozen people were taking refrigerators and other appliances from what they said was a government store. They ignored Ahmed's pleas to help tear down the portrait. After about 30 minutes, Ahmed and the soldiers gave up. Sorry Ahmed I need a fridge before someone else grabs it. We'll tear down the picture once all the good stuff is gone.
Then, Ahmed pointed to a tall structure across the Republic Bridge over the Tigris River. The building was a former hotel and youth ministry that he said Iraqi troops had commandeered. There were shots fired from it, including what appeared to be an anti-tank missile aimed at the Americans. With the addition of Ahmed's information, officers called their superiors, asking permission for Air Force jets to bomb the structure. Holed up in a civilian building, Nice try!
''We're about to blow (the building) based on his word,'' said Capt. Shannon Hume, 28, of Marshall, Va. A couple of hours later, his superiors had evaluated all the information and OK'd the airstrike. The building was then destroyed. At day's end, Ahmed returned home, but not before being rewarded. Lt. Col. Flip deCamp, 40, from Columbus, Ga., gave Ahmed about 400,000 Iraqi dinars ($350). They should have bought him a steak dinner to boot!
Posted by: George ||
04/09/2003 05:01 am ||
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Sorry, I meant to put this in Iraq, not terror networks!
Posted by: George ||
04/09/2003 5:10 Comments ||
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Give that man a job!!! Appoint a new coach to the Iraqi national soccer team and pretty much everything else should start to fall into place. ;)
A former Indian royal Maharani Gayatri Devi from Jaipur said she would pay for a pair of artificial limbs for Ali Ismail Abbas, aged 12. "I have to find out the whereabouts of the boy and where he can be operated upon. If the facilities are good in Iraq then he can be operated in Iraq or else anywhere in the world," she said. The British clinic which makes prosthetic limbs for Heather Mills, the wife of the pop star Paul McCartney, has also offered to treat Ali Ismail Abbas. The Help is coming for the innocents of Iraq, one a Hindu and the other a British clinic.
Posted by: George ||
04/09/2003 04:37 am ||
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#1
Maybe Soddy Arabis can help pay for a koran to stop the bleeding.
You know except for the kuwaities, I haven't seen any other Arab/Islamic nation offer any kind of humanitarian assistance to Iraq. They've been too busying shitting on anyone and everyone.
#2
In fake news today: Actress/Activists Susan Sarandon and Rosie O'Donnell made a statement today condemning the liberation of Baghdad: "We are disgusted that this horrible thing has happened. Had we not been so eager to make war on a small, defenseless country, that child would still have the full use of his arms and legs, which he would need in order to survive his years of beatings, rapings and imprisonment at the hands of a regime which we still maintain is less evil than the totalitarian regime on our own soil. We are oblivious to the irony that were we Iraqian citizens even as recently as two weeks ago, we would have been raped and shot, or perhaps just shot, for voicing our disapproval of our beloved Saddam. More to the point, we refuse to recognize that the freedoms with its benefits we have wished for other nations have come only after our military shed its own precious blood in order to depose the tyrants we love so very, very much, and that our own loud, verbal protests didn't achieve anything except to make it harder for our boys to do their evil work of deposing inncent sadists. Long live Saddam! Long live Castro! Depose Bush! But don't stop loving us and giving us access to so much wealth that we could feed all of Baghdad for a week and not feel the pinch, if we chose to do so, which we obviously don't, feeling that we are doing enough for the people of Iraq simply by letting them bask in our physical presence for upwards of 30 minutes before we hop back on our private jets and go back to the horrible, awful United States where we can tell our nannies to shut the kids up instead of having to shut them up ourselves!" After making their statement, the actresses then thanked Satan for their otherwise inexplicable rise to fame and fortune.
Saddam's regime appears to have folded. The people of Baghdad have come out onto the streets, cheering US Marines and looting shops and government buildings. Television pictures from Baghdad show a city in anarchy, with Iraqi police and soldiers nowhere to be seen. Civilians could be seen attacking posters of Saddam as they celebrated their new-found freedom. ITV News correspondent Neil Connery, in Baghdad, said it feels like "the lid has been lifted off a pressure cooker". The looting came as US ground forces roll into the city, with US military commanders claiming the majority of Iraqi forces in the city have deserted. Journalists in the city reported that their regime "minders" did not appear as usual this morning.
Looks like Sammy was either in that restaurant, or that as soon as the restaurant went "boom" he lit out for parts unknown. If he's in Tikrit, it'll only be for long enough to stuff the national treasury into a few suitcases and catch a cab for Syria.
And for once the Iraqi information minister Mohammad Said al-Sahhaf did not appear to insist the regime would triumph. However, the US military has said it is "premature" to say that Baghdad has been taken over. And UK intelligence sources have said Saddam Hussein is probably still alive despite a US air strike at a restaurant in the Mansour district of the city.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
04/09/2003 04:26 am ||
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from Cnn.com:
"There were reports of residents of Saddam City celebrating the end of the Iraqi regime. A Shiite Muslim leader told a group of 400 to 500 people, 'The tyrant of the world is finished, thanks to the coalition. Thank God for Iraq the victorious.'"
#2
In pillaging regime facilities, the people of Baghdad are simply taking back what the criminal saddam regime has stolen from them. I also hear that UN and NGO offices have been looted, meaning that the profits of appeasement and obstructionism are also going to the people who suffered so much to create them. The antiwar mob will undoubtedly do an Orwellian about-face over this, and start deploring anarchy and vandalism for a change.
#4
Heh heh, Atomic! Apparently all the UN vehicles have been stolen. This and the looting of presidential palaces is one mob property redistribution I'm more than happy to see. Looting in Basra has subsided - hopefully it will not get too out of control in Baghdad either.
"So, Ahmed, mind if I use the toilet again?"
"Sure, you know where it is: out back behind the broken freezers and the dead cats. Just don't go scraping the gold leaf off it when you're doing your business this time, eh?!"
#5
I hope we will soon see the now-traditional post-liberation ritual of Beating Robert Fisk:
Fisk: "Ah, here's a band of distraught Iraqis now; reduced by the horror of American bombing to carrying away
TV sets and refrigerators." Iraqi: "Hey, thank you, thank you, Brit guy; may Allah smile upon you and bless your sheep with many offspring. Blessings upon Blair, blessings upon Bush!" Fisk: "Arrrgh! Another helpless victim of cowboy aggression, obviously delusional from the horrific effects of American bombing." Iraqi: "Blessings upon American Air Force. B-52, we love you." Fisk: "Please, my good man, I am not one of those, I oppose this hideous aggression against peaceful Iraqi people. I praise your spirit of resistance." Iraqi: "Wait, aren't you that piece of camel dung from The Independent?" Fisk: I am he, the one and only Fisk, and I understand your anger over the horror of American bombing, but I am here to help you and your glorious leader, Saddam Hussein, in your heroic, Stalingrad-like resistance to...."
SMACK!
#6
Hope the paperwork showing how much prohibited materials the French, Russians, and Germans sold them survive the shredder and sacking of the buildings
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/09/2003 9:40 Comments ||
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Ali Ismaeel Abbas lies in a Baghdad hospital - an innocent victim of the Iraq war. The 12-year-old lost both arms when a bomb hit his home, killing his family. Sorry folks for more Al JAZEERA blend from the daily Mirror, take a close look at the happy face of this "liberated" kid, I hope you guys enjoy it.
See if you can find some pictures of the children who made it out of Sammy's kiddy jail, wouldja? Or don't they count?
Posted by: Murat ||
04/09/2003 03:36 am ||
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I hope you enjoy waving this picture around with everybody else. Play your Politics of Dead Babies, Murat.
No children were ever harmed under Saddam, before the American's showed up. If they were, you would be just as outraged, right?
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
04/09/2003 3:59 Comments ||
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Not as much as you and your kind will enjoy using him for your propaganda, you sick ignorant bastard. It is YOU who are responsible for things like this.
#7
I know what your saying Murat. I can't look at those images of the injured children. It makes my heart drop; Believe me! I don't know how many their we're, but I prayed everyday that there would be no more. We didn't want those children hurt as much as you, but this had to be done. The evil of Saddam had to be rooted out. When there is a cancer, unfortunately you have to hurt a lot of innocents just to get it out. So, I look at the good side. The people are finally free. That's what's important!
Posted by: George ||
04/09/2003 4:21 Comments ||
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Let's do an online poll. Who thinks Murat crossed the line here?
#9
Thank you George, I wished there where more people like you, who do care about humanity.
I agree with you that Saddam is an evil, that's the positive side, but the human cost of getting rid of such evil are really to high IMO.
Posted by: Murat ||
04/09/2003 4:28 Comments ||
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Yo Murat,
"There were reports of residents of Saddam City celebrating the end of the Iraqi regime. A Shiite Muslim leader told a group of 400 to 500 people, 'The tyrant of the world is finished, thanks to the coalition. Thank God for Iraq the victorious.'"
No thanks to Murat, of course, the coward that he is, would prefer to keep Saddam in power.
#11
Murat caring about humanity??? If you cared about humanity you would be attacking Saddam as much as you are attacking Bush. Say something about Saddam. Blame Saddam for that picture Murat. After all, HE TOO is responsible isn't he??? Come on, say it you bastard.
#12
RW I won't lower myself to your level of language use.
Posted by: Murat ||
04/09/2003 5:07 Comments ||
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#13
Murat,you know Saddam's regime SYSTEMATICALLY imprisoned,tortured and held hostage children of people suspected of 'disloyalty' to the regime;the fact has been documented over and over again by human rights organisations and independent reporters.Is it too much to ask a drop of sympathy for Saddam's victims,or are you one of those people who get moral outrage only when it is convenient for them?
If so,then let's take off the gloves:What's a member of a nation that has massacred millions of innocent Armenians and Kurds doing lecturing the rest of us about ethics?Apologise to them first,and maybe we'll listen to you then.
Posted by: El Id ||
04/09/2003 5:08 Comments ||
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Murat, with your perverse morality, the only way you can go is up. Raise yourself to some level approaching reality, switch on your TV and watch the jubilant Iraqis tearing down images of Saddam, spitting on them, ripping them and burning them. Just admit it - you were wrong! You have been wrong, are wrong, and will continue to be wrong.
This prison camp held Men, Women, and CHILDREN without trial. One MUSLIM man was imprisoned because he PRAYED too much. This is the kind of reality that you are trying to protect.
#17
Over the line:I vote yes.
I said yesterday Murat Troll,wouldn't be able to accept he may have been wrong(much less admit it publically),you all know much like the far-right here.
The"Peace at any price"jack-offs are all for peace,as long as it is not his 12 year daughter being raped as he watches,as long as it's not his brother imprisioned/tortured for praying to much.
Murat,your avid support of a group of saddist's has lowered your credibility and the value of your opinion to that of a mu-rat.
It's true, the fact that those who opposed war to remove Saddam were blatantly wrong, you only have to turn on a TV to see.
So this leaves them in the indefensible, dictator-lovin' corner they painted themselves into. The people of Iraq clearly don't agree with them, so you have to ask: who were they speaking for? Only themselves.
Now watch them grasp at emotive straws to justify their position.
I predict, they will continue to look for any perceived weakness they can to exploit, lame though it is. Instead they should just admit they were wrong and join the winning team - not the whining team.
#19
Fred, take it down. It is not news, nor analytical insight.
What's next, Murat, linking to Indymedia? Calling the Jews Zionazis?
Have you answered for the Armenian Genocide, the Greek Occupation or your country's lovely treatement of the Kurds today?
Baby killer.
Posted by: Brian ||
04/09/2003 7:13 Comments ||
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#20
The victim in Murat's picture is properly classified as an indirect victim of Saddam's totalitarian regime where the cause of the injury was coalition ordinance. There are many others, probably in the thousands. However, the direct victims of Saddam totalitarian regime are in the millions. The psychosis of much of the Islamic world is far too strong to be able to understand any of this. This is not just sad, but tragic. If they can't understand the real truth, their fate is simply to wallow in their madness or perceived injustice without hope of economic advance without the possiblity of real civil liberty.
#21
I don't think Murat crossed a line. I think we should see the results of our action...but we should see both sides including the positive, just as Murat should be forced to see the results of his own country's atrocities.
Murat has proven himself to be an illogical, ideological coward, since he has neither shown the positive results of US intervention, nor has he responded to repeated questions about his own country's.
This is blatant sensationalism, and it still does not convince me that our cause is unjust. As I said yesterday...Murat is bitter and ashamed that his own country tried to thwart the efforts to liberate the Iraqi people to its own detriment. Let's hope that at least he, if not the Turkish parliament has learned the lesson.
Speaking of that...there's certainly a possibility that is the Turkish parliament HAD allowed the 4 ID to install a northern front, the war would have been avoided or at least shortened, and this picture never would have been taken. There's plenty of blame to go around.
#22
"I agree with you that Sadam is evil"
Murat, what the hell has happened to you? You, putting down Sadam? What's taken place in the last few days to make you start dissing your hero. Like I said yesterday, we're on to you, pal.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/09/2003 8:08 Comments ||
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#23
War is hell. We had plenty of people who were maimed during the World Trade Center collapse - unlike the Arab world, we don't dwell on our casualties in an almost pornographic manner. I have pictures of people who went splat on the ground level of the World Trade Center while trying to escape the fires started by the jet fuel on the 747's. Every time I have doubts about the campaign we're waging, I look at those pictures and my heart turns to ice. As ye reap, so shall ye sow...
#25
Murat: I agree with you that Saddam is an evil, that's the positive side, but the human cost of getting rid of such evil are really to high IMO.
Ah, I see your problem, murat. You're limited only to the present, not to the past, or the future. You can't factor in all the suffering Saddam has inflicted to bring it all into the present. Nor can you factor in all the suffering Saddam WILL HAVE CEASED TO INFLICT from the future that no longer exists thanks to the Coaltion into the present.
Such a narrow, limited mind you have, Murat, incapable of comprehending suffering inflicted by Saddam and your fello Muslims, while our ability to comprehend suffering inflicted by everyone! I am sorry you are not capable of anything more than trolling.
This poor child is impaired in body. You, on the other hand, are impaired in the mind and soul.
#26
I don't think Murat has crossed the line here. We should see remainders of what liberating the Iraqi people has also cost them. War is an ugly, brutal thing, and we shouldn't dismiss it.
That being said, we must also be somewhat cold and practical, realizing that as unfortunate as the maiming of this child and other innocents has been, we have saved many more from as bad and worse treatment at the hands of Saddam and Co.
We know this had to be done, but while we're celebrating their new found freedom we should also take the time to remember the cost.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/09/2003 9:21 Comments ||
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#27
Murat - why is a Hindu the first person to offer help for this boy and not an Arab? Where is all the Arab humanitarian aid? Rhetoric is cheap, actions are not.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
04/09/2003 9:35 Comments ||
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#28
"The costs are to high"? Have you ever paid attention to the costs of NOT doing anything? If you have, you surely have come to the same conclusion that the rest of us have. That the humanitarian costs of doing nothing outway the costs of doing something to the tune of about 100,000-1.
If you have not come to the same conclusion, I hope the Kurds get their revenge on the Turks. And remember.. "Revenge is a dish best served cold."
Have fun with your crumbling economy.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
04/09/2003 10:23 Comments ||
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#29
MuRat, had you any courage, you'd be protesting against your government's treatment of the Kurds, Armenians, and Greek minorities. You'd be protesting its unwise move to block US troops passage - which would have reduced Iraqi casulaties greatly.
Do you have the courage and moral fortitude to admit that you and your government were and still are WRONG?
Oh, thats right. You cannot protest in your country like that, liek we do here in the US. Not without a secret arrest and a long prison term by your crude, oppressive government and police.
Good Luck MuRat - maybe you guys can piss the US off enough to where there is an attack and liberation of your country from its current corrupt government, so it can be rebuilt from the bottom up as a free society.
#30
Hey Murat, go fuck yourself. Better yet, why not head to Iraq and join your cause--I'm sure the coalition forces there would be more than happy to give you a very special welcome!
#31
Come on, guys. You are devoting megabytes of Fred's storage to rationally replying to irrational Murat's baiting. Ignore the bloody troll and get on with your lives, please.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/09/2003 11:12 Comments ||
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#32
Actually, the kid is an innocent victim.
The story doesn't blame the US explicitly. For that matter, there's no evidence that he was wounded by a coalition bomb... could just have easily been an Iraqi AAA misfire/overshoot/whatever.
What happened to the kid, sucks. It would not have happened if the UN, the Arab world, and those who "recoil from violence" hadn't encouraged Saddam to resist past the point of common sense. Pacifism begets violence.
Posted by: Mark IV ||
04/09/2003 11:28 Comments ||
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#33
RW I won't lower myself to your level of language use.
Yet without hesitance you use phrases like "I hope you guys enjoy it." Who do you think we are? Certainly not animals like you.
#34
Murat, Are you ever going to get the "If you're not with us, You're with the Terrorists" quote correct. Once, just once, I would like to see you get something correct. You've been wrong about everything so far.
Your murderer defending would do more bad (or in your eyes, good) elsewhere.
Go slaughter an Armenian, and leave the discussions involving freedom to the people who know what freedom is.
I've been living free my entire life, and can tell you one thing. You absolutely, in know way what-so-ever, comprehend it.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
04/09/2003 12:09 Comments ||
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#35
We have one young boy in very bad shape who has already been promised help from both British and Hindu sources. There were 150 children in a prison, put there by Saddam Hussein because they wouldn't join the Young Ba'athist party. Which is more terrible, an accidental injury caused by a war of liberation that will make life better for EVERYONE in Iraq, or the deliberate cruelty of a sadistic and demented monster who has been steadily crushing an entire people for almost thirty years?
Most people can understand that kind of value judgment. Those who cannot are the ones who provide legitimacy for the terrorists and murderers of the entire Middle East. God have mercy on their souls - they're going to need it!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/09/2003 12:15 Comments ||
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#36
Has anyone else noticed yet that all you have to do to make Murat run away is to mention the Armenians? He has no answer, his country has no defense to make for that horror, and he knows it.
#37
I would like to know what Murat would have said to the GI's who liberated concentration camps like Dachau or Buchenwald. "Bloody murderers, you killed German children to come here?"
#38
Any civilian death in war is a tragedy. However, these incidents are not the whole story, given that the Saddamites used human shields, as well as civilian structures to conduct war. The fact that al-Jazeera and the left-wing Euros stripped said incidents from context, reveals how far these people diverge from principled journalism.
Multiple U.S. intelligence sources saw Saddam Hussein enter a building in Baghdad on Monday and not emerge before four 1-ton Air Force bombs destroyed it, government officials said yesterday. One official said some analysts believe the multiple eyewitness accounts suggest the Iraqi dictator is dead. The penetrating bombs reduced the building near the popular al Saa restaurant to rubble.
FoxNews last night was showing one fellow, apparently one of Sammy's bodyguards, who was hanging around the crater. They matched it with the earlier pictures of Sammy pressing the flesh in the neighborhood.
The official described the CIA yesterday as being "in a state of euphoria." They say there is no doubt he is dead," said a U.S. military official. But an intelligence official cautioned yesterday that Washington has not made a final determination on whether Saddam was killed in the strike. This official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said there is no doubt senior Ba'ath Party and Iraqi intelligence officials were killed, but "in terms of knowing who was killed, we just don't know."
It sounds like his communications are down. They've probably heard references in other communications to whether he's alive or a layer of jam...
The conclusive evidence could come in the form of DNA from the site, or monitored communications of "chatter" to confirm a death that might bring the collapse of the Ba'ath regime and a speedy end to the war.
Judging by what's happening in Baghdad today, he's either dead or otherwise gone. Remember, the minders didn't show up. Info Man is nowhere to be found...
The bombing culminated a fairly complex operation of tracking Saddam's movements. His youngest son, Qusai, the heir apparent and the director of Baghdad's defenses, also may have been seen entering the building. The hunt for the Iraqi leader intensified after his regime broadcast Friday on state-run television a videotape of Saddam suddenly emerging in the Mansur neighborhood, greeting a crowd of well-wishers. He may have felt relatively safe there on Monday. He also had taken a walk there and not been harmed. The area is a Ba'ath stronghold. One U.S. official said the fact that Saddam had been in the neighborhood during the war meant he might return â which he eventually did. The CIA determined the videotape was that of Saddam, not a double, and was fairly recent. The assessment meant Saddam had survived a March 19 bombing similar to the strike Monday. The United States stepped up surveillance in the Mansur area, using Iraqi spies, CIA officers, and Army Delta Force commandos who wear disguises to appear as Iraqis.
I think it's damned good work just to determine which neighborhood he was in. Seems there was more video than we saw...
Intelligence officials declined to say how they learned of the meeting Monday. But an estimated 30 persons attended, including officials of the Iraqi Intelligence Service, or the Mukhabarat, and senior Ba'ath members. An intelligence report reaching Washington said the meeting would take place near a well-known landmark â the al Saa restaurant, a popular eatery for the upscale inhabitants of Mansur. The Washington Times reported yesterday that Saddam's meeting place was under or behind the restaurant. An official said yesterday that the target was in a bunkered house behind the restaurant. On Monday afternoon, Saddam showed up with his bodyguard entourage and entered the building, the eyewitnesses said. The dictator was being tracked by the CIA, a CIA-recruited spy and a Delta commando. One of them communicated on a secure line to the CIA's headquarters in Langley, which alerted the U.S. Central Command forward headquarters in Doha, Qatar. Central Command gave the order to an airborne B-1B bomber crew, armed with 2,000-pound penetrating bombs for just such an opportunity to kill a high-value target in a bunkered building.
Now, that is real-time intel — and one hell of a level of tech sophistication. The Russers and the Chinese are probably taking the gas pipe over these revelations — which probably shouldn't have been revealed. They're going to cost us special ops guys in the future...
In minutes, the four-seat Air Force bomber was over Baghdad, and released four of the satellite-guided GBU-31s. They obliterated a block of businesses and residences. One resident said 14 bodies were seen at the site during the ongoing rescue effort, including children. "What we have for battle-damage assessment right now is essentially a hole in the ground, a site of destruction where we wanted it to be, where we believe high-value targets were," Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, vice director of operations of the Joint Staff, said at a Pentagon press conference. "We do not have a hard and fast assessment of what individual or individuals were on site." U.S. informants did not see Saddam leave the building before the bombs hit.
We won't have it until we can go root through the rubble. But we'll also know from chatter, and if Admiral Canaris Izzat Ibrahim (Curse his moustache!) starts issuing orders...
Central Command said yesterday it would like access to the bomb site to determine who was killed. But allied forces do not yet control Mansur. While U.S. intelligence has picked up communications "chatter" that Qusai is still directing troops, it has heard nothing from Saddam's other son, Uday. There are unconfirmed reports that he was killed in the March 19 bombing from which Saddam had managed to escape.
#2
Interesting, but it's hard to believe all the details in this story would be released so soon. I can't believe they'd expose all this info before the job is done.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/09/2003 9:32 Comments ||
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#3
I miss Info Man. Would LOVE his take on the current situation.
#4
Yeah, the tunnel thing has me wondering too. We'll just have to wait and see. As for now, he's out of the picture, as is Info Man. That guy is (was) SNL material.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
04/09/2003 11:27 Comments ||
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British intelligence officials believe Saddam Hussein escaped America's devastating bomb attack on a building where the Iraqi leader was thought to be meeting. They say he may have left minutes before four 2,000lbs obliterated the restaurant in the al-Mansour district of Baghdad. The restaurant is reported to have housed an underground bunker system. Rats. But it does give the people of Iraq another chance to settle Sammy's hash Mussolini style.
"We think he (Saddam) left the same he arrived in the area, either by a tunnel system of by car, we're not sure," one British intelligence official told The Times.
It doesn't really matter. When the restaurant blew up, his regime blew up with it. He doesn't own Baghdad anymore. If there's any serious resistance, it'll be at Tikrit. And I don't expect to see much there.
A US Air Force B-1 bomber dropped four huge bombs on the building on Monday afternoon following a tip-off Saddam and his sons were meeting with other regime leaders. Tip-offs from three separate sources said Saddam was at the al-Mansour site. US intelligence services informed Allied Central Command in Qatar and a US B-1B Lancer bomber, which was already in the air, was redirected to launch an attack. But US officials are reported to have said there is a "strong chance" Saddam and his sons were killed. US President George Bush said Saddam's fate remained unknown. "I don't know whether he survived," President Bush said after talks with Tony Blair in Belfast. "The only thing I know is that he's losing power. ... Saddam Hussein will be gone," Mr Bush added. Saddam: dead or irrelevant.
The bombing left a 60ft crater and there were local reports of surrounding homes being destroyed and several civilian bodies being pulled from the rubble. Iraqi rescue workers said up to 14 civilians were killed, including a child. Members of the B-1 crew told reporters that they were patrolling the Iraqi capital when they were told about a high priority leadership target. The bomber arrived at the target just 12 minutes later. The first two bombs penetrated the building, then the other two - equipped with a delay fuse - penetrated further into the target. The man who may have killed Saddam, Lieutenant Colonel Fred Swan, weapons system officer on the bomber, described how he and his crew felt when the order came through. "We knew it was important and that it might be the big one," he said.
Establishing whether Saddam escaped - or sent a double to the meeting - may rest on DNA sampling. US authorities are rumoured to have already obtained samples of his DNA, or they could take samples from close relatives to identify his corpse. Iraqi authorities denied any leadership figures were hit in the attack. "Lies! All lies! Hey, what's all that noise off-camera ..."
Shortly thereafter they ceased denying or confirming much of anything.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 01:29 am ||
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#1
"got him this time"
"no you didn't"
"yes we did"
I'm beginning to think that Saddam exists in some sort of indeterminate half-alive, half-dead state; Schroedinger's rat, so to speak.
#2
Some have speculated this is a stalling tactic. Once you announce Sodom's dead, you unleash a new set of political & military pressures. Better not to know for now.
One Cavalry troop has been tearing up the Iraqi armor fleet with remarkable success. On April 4th, the 3/7 Cavalry was screening the west flank of other 3rd ID units storming the Baghdad International Airport. The US Air Force had identified 22 stationary T-72s (a battalion's worth) three or four kilometers in front of the Cavalry. "A" Troop was given the mission of taking out the enemy tanks and advanced down the six-lane highway with ten M1A1s and some M2 Bradleys. They saw the Air Force engaging one element on the North side of the road, but not a second element on the south side. This group was dug-in to hull-down positions, with barbed wire in front. Despite being outnumbered two to one, "A" Troop engaged and from 800 to 1,000 meters away, the cavalry opened fire with their Abrams tanks' 120 mm main guns, while most of the Iraqi 125mm main gun return fire fell short or flew too high. The M1s systematically destroyed the Iraqi armor. Even one of "A" Troops Bradleys destroyed three T-72s, while a second scored two T-72 kills. Interesting that the 25 mm Bradley gun can kill a T-72. I think I'll sell those T-72 futures short. Real short.
One of the Iraqi main gun rounds exploded 25 meters from Troop Commander CPT Clay Lyle's tank, rattling it around some. The Iraqis also returned fire with RPGs and a few artillery shells, but none inflicted any casualties. As dusk approached, "A" Troop pulled back to allow their supporting artillery and close air support jets to pound the Iraqi positions. By 6PM, "A" Troop had destroyed 12 tanks, three antiaircraft guns and one towed howitzer. The engagement had lasted about 10 minutes.
Earlier in the day, "Apache" Troop had destroyed nine tanks and killed about 350 Iraqi infantrymen (with Bradley main gunfire accounting for five of the nine destroyed tank kills). The other vehicles destroyed included an armored personnel carrier and 43 civilian-style trucks and cars being used to transport fighters to the battle. The Iraqis had simply been driving down the freeway when Apache troop attacked. Typical Iraq military formation: no scouts, no intel, no chance of knowing what's in front of them.
No chance in hell, in fact...
It was thought that "A" troop had probably run into elements of Iraq's Hammurabi Division as they shifted south into positions west of the airport.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 01:20 am ||
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The Cavalry did the same thing last war. (Crossposted from my comments on Command Post)
FYI, fighting and winning outnumbered seems to be an Armored Cavalry tradition. Look up the Battle of 73 Easting from the last Gulf War. I was there.
The 2ACR was the only US unit to fight outnumbered and almost surrounded. Despite having to fight in almost zero visibility due to dust storms and nightfall, the regiment's M2A2, M3A2 Bradleys, and M1A1 Abrams decimated the opposing elements of the Iraqi crack Tawakalna Republican Guard Division and 12th Armoured Division. By the end of its covering force mission, the Regiment had broken the defensive line of the Republican Guard's Tawakalna Division and led three heavy divisions into the fight. During the 100-hour war, the Regiment moved over 250 kilometers, captured over 2000 prisoners, and destroyed 159 enemy tanks and 260 other fighting vehicles. Its actions against the Iraqi divisions have become textbook examples of modern tank warfare."
Great quote from 1991:
âI started the war with 39 tanks (T72s). After 38 days of aerial bombardment, I had a total of 32. But, after 20 minutes against (one company of) the 2ACR, I had zero.â -Tank Battalion Commander, Iraqi Republican Guards, The Battle of 73 Easting
Seems the 3/7 has kept the Cavalry tradition of elan, agressiveness and execution alive.
#2
I have some doubts about the ability of the 25mm gun on a Bradley to kill a T-72. A Bradley also carries TOW Missiles, which are much more likely to do the job.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
04/09/2003 2:45 Comments ||
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#3
Good shooting all, past and present.
Honored to have you here, OldSpook. Your presence and comments outweigh the trollish deadwood.
#4
The "funny" thing is, that during the battle, our gunnery was BETTER than it was on the range at Grafenwoehr and Hoenfels. In other words, our training was HARDER than the war, in terms of the gunnery situaions we set up. It looks like they have still kept that lesson we had drummed into us in the Regiment - sweat in training prevents blood in battle.
Posted to WaPo at 1:22 am EDT
Thousands of U.S. Marines moved block by block through Saddam City, a huge urban sprawl in northeast Baghdad, early on Wednesday, continuing to sqeeze out Iraqi resistance in the capital. Reuters correspondent Sean Maguire, travelling with a unit of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, said troops met very little resistance, getting a largely warm reception as they swept the low-income residential district. Saddam City is home to two to three million Iraqis, mainly from the Shi'ite Muslim majority, who have traditionally been marginalised by the Sunni ruling elite, most lately by President Saddam Hussein's Sunni-dominated government. The few local residents on the streets cheered and clapped the U.S. troops. Maguire said he did not hear a shot fired. U.S. warplanes flew low overhead and Marines laid down a long barrage of U.S. artillery which appeared to be "prep" fire, aimed at clearing a space free of Iraqi soldiers or paramilitary fighters for the advancing American troops. One officer said the methodical pace to the assault was to "destroy remaining pockets of enemy resistance." I don't know why I ever doubted Fred: perhaps Wednesday will be the last day.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 01:07 am ||
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There's still Tikrit. It's not over until the fat guy hangs.
Iraqis showed journalists a white stone jail where they claim Saddam Hussein's secret police for decades tortured inmates with beatings, mutilations, electric shocks and chemical baths. The jail, known as the ``White Lion,'' was charred and half-demolished Tuesday after two days of bombing by British forces fighting for control of Basra, Iraq's second-largest city. People taken behind the jail's sandstone facade usually did not come out, residents said. Hundreds of Iraqis came to see the now-empty jail, according to British press reports. Relatives of missing inmates checked fingerprinted files and lists of names found amid the fallen bricks. ``It was a place of evil,'' resident Hamed Fattil said. I wonder, if someone made a documentary about this place, whether Michael Moore would watch it. And whether it would win an Oscar for best documentary.
Hamed told British reporters that Iraqi police locked him and his two brothers in a jail dungeon in 1991, and that he was freed after eight months but his brothers were still missing. ``They used to strap a leather cord around our head, hands and shoulders and hoist us two feet off the ground. Then they would beat us as we hung there,'' Hamed said. ``They did unthinkable things - electrocution, immersion in a bath of chemicals and ripping off people's finger and toenails.'' All soon to be denounced by the peaceniks and anti-war intellectuals.
The jail basement was a warren of cells, chambers and cages where the ground was strewn with an insect-eaten gas mask and bottles, according to Associated Press Television News footage. For the cameras, two men re-enacted how jailers allegedly tortured prisoners. One man, hands tied behind his back with a rope attached to a hook on the ceiling, bent over while another man pantomimed hitting him on the back and the face with his hands and a long, white rod. One man shuddered while the other gave him a pretend electric shock. Rather gruesome performance art!
Outside the jail, a man showed APTN his mangled ears. Hamed took British reporters into a yard behind the jail into a set of white boxy cells, surrounded by red wire mesh with a low, wire roof. He said some of the cells, which had red doors with large bolts, were used to hold women and children. He also said hundreds of men were kept in a single cell about the size of a living room, which had one rusted grate window. Between the men's and women's cells was a long mesh cage. Hamed said here, jailers pressed prisoners against the mesh and squeezed hot irons against their backs or threw scalding water on them in front of other inmates. Anyone catch the condemnation of this terrible place from Vanessa?
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 12:51 am ||
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Oh, yes, Murat. This is the Iraq you wanted left alone. This is the Iraq where people were living so much happier and healthier than what the coalition forces are trying to bring about. No matter how many (even one is too many) civilian casualties, be they injuries or deaths, brought about by the coalition forces, we could NEVER equal the atrocities, in either scope or number, to which Saddam and his regime may lay claim.
#2
C'mon, you know that in Hollywood, "documentary" has a different meaning than it does out here in flyover country! We're so backward out here that we think it means something based in truth.
Maybe if you could show the NRA had something to do with it, Michael Moore would be interested.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 21:55 Comments ||
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U.S. forces battled the tattered remnants of Iraq's army for control of downtown Baghdad on Tuesday, crushing a couple of technicals counterattack and seizing a military airport. Saddam Hussein's fate was unknown after an attempt to kill him from the air. Inside the capital to stay, some Army units routed Iraqi fighters from a Republican Guard headquarters. Others discovered a 12-room complex inside a cave, complete with white marble floors, 10-foot ceilings and fluorescent lighting. Marines battled snipers as they fought deeper into the capital from the east. They seized the Rasheed Airport and captured enough ammunition for an estimated 3,000 troops. Ominously, they also took a prison where they found U.S. Army uniforms and chemical weapons suits possibly belonging to American POWs. Ahem, we need to know more about that.
On the city's northern side, Army forces set a Republican Guard barracks ablaze. Warplanes flew their bombing runs unchallenged, and smoke poured out of the Ministry of Planning building in the city's center. ``We are continuing to maintain our ability to conduct operations around and in Baghdad, and remove them from regime control'' said Capt. Frank Thorp, a spokesman at U.S. Central Command. Four days after Americans first penetrated the Baghdad outskirts, the city showed the effects of the war. Civilians roamed the streets with Kalashnikov rifles in hand, uncollected garbage piled up, and there were long lines at the reduced number of gasoline stations still open.
They might want to dump those AK's...
The Iraqi counterattack began shortly after dawn when an estimated 500 Iraqis jumped off trucks and buses, firing assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades at Army forces holding a key intersection in the western part of the city. Sounds like they don't have anything with a punch any heavier than an RPG.
Two A-10 warplanes were called in to provide air cover, strafing building tops and directing 30 mm rapid cannon fire against the Iraqis. ``They're a beautiful thing,'' said Capt. Philip Wolford, a company commander with the 3rd Infantry Division, as the jets roared overhead. He said at least 50 Iraqis were killed in the attack, and the rest routed. Two U.S. soldiers were reported wounded, one seriously, by snipers on nearby rooftops. Marines combed the site of a Republican Guard junior training facility, and came across 15 bunkers full of rifles, anti-aircraft artillery, missile systems, rocket-propelled grenades and other weapons. ``It's the largest cache of weapons since we crossed the border'' from Kuwait, said Capt. Shaine Grodack. He estimated the cache was big enough to arm a regimental force - a few thousands soldiers. All of which will be blown up shortly.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 12:39 am ||
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Missile systems?
Since I don't know anything about this, do we have an idea as to which of our *allies* would have provided this?
#2
The Marines (I think it was them - if not, 3ID) uncovered a cache of Rolands at Baghdad International Airport night before last.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/09/2003 11:56 Comments ||
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#3
Missile systems? Since I don't know anything about this, do we have an idea as to which of our *allies* would have provided this?
Probably SA-7 "Strela" shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles and some kind of anti-tank missiles. Most was probably provided by the Russians prior to the 1991 war, although some may have come into Baghdad from Syria, along with tons of other military supplies and equipment. Syria has been a major player, working as middleman between France, Russia, and Germany and Saddam Hussein's government. I refuse to say "Iraq" about any of the former actions, since it's pretty obvious that "regime" has been "changed" now.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/09/2003 12:35 Comments ||
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Lebanon said on Wednesday it had arrested five people in connection with a booby-trapped car discovered outside a McDonald's fast food outlet and accused them of planning attacks on Lebanon's Western embassies. "We have five detainees so far who have confessed to placing a booby-trapped Renault car at McDonald's," Interior Minister Elias al-Murr told a news conference. A booby-trapped Renault? That's enough a smoking gun for me, on to Paris!
"The confessions showed that this terrorist group was also preparing for destructive acts on Western embassies," he said. It's in the job description
"We confiscated from one of the detainees a rocket aimed at hitting some of the Western embassies, as well as hand grenades, pistols, machine guns and silencers." Just the sort of stuff you'd expect the turban set to have
Murr said the Lebanese detainees confessed to parking a car loaded with explosives outside the fast food outlet on the edge of Beirut at the weekend. The explosives did not detonate. Security forces found the car, packed with 120 pounds of explosives, when they searched the restaurant parking lot after a small blast in the toilets injured three people. Security sources said at the time that the toilet blast may have been intended to lure people toward the much larger bomb, but that a malfunction prevented the car from blowing up. S.O.P. when you are going for a high body count.
The minister said the detainees had also confessed to six other bomb attacks against U.S.-style food outlets in Lebanon over the past year. Part of the anti-obesity protest crowd?
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 02:57 pm ||
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a booby-trapped Renault...
I owned a Renault. You wouldn't have to booby trap it. You'd just have to start it.
Maybe we could hook these folks up with the "Ronald MacDonald Liberation Army" in Indonesia?
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld charged on Wednesday that Syria might be helping Saddam Hussein's supporters to flee Iraq. "We are getting scraps of intelligence saying that Syria has been cooperative in facilitating the move of the people out of Iraq and into Syria," he told a news conference. "Then in some cases they stay there and find safekeeping there. In other cases they move them from Syria to some other places. Syria's really trying to find a place on the poop list. They're doing a pretty good job of it, in fact.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 02:01 pm ||
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Some Arabs clustered at shop windows to watch the astounding pictures on television. Others turned off their sets in disgust at scenes from Baghdad of jubilant crowds celebrating the arrival of US troops and the apparent end of Saddam Hussein's regime. The overwhelming emotion for many was one of disbelief, tinged for some with disappointment after weeks of hearing Saddam's government pledge a "great victory" or fight to the death against "infidel invaders." What? No ululation? Tusk. Tusk.
"We expected resistance, not what happened," said Ghadah Shebah, a business administration student at the American University in Cairo. "That wasn't the show we wanted to see. Can we change the channel?"
Others though called it a spontaneous outburst of joy at the end of an oppressive regime but warned US troops not to misinterpret the relief as an invitation to stay. "Those people under oppression will not have any national feeling, so they will be happy to see someone removing a dictator and liberating them," said lawyer Ali Al-Sayed after an anti-war march in Khartoum, Sudan. "But the moment they feel free and liberated, they will not tolerate a foreign presence." "Nope. Everybody knows there's no word for 'gratitude' in Arabic."
His sentiments resonated around a region where Iraq is far from the only place that lacks democracy. Abdel Khaleq Abdulla, a political analyst in the United Arab Emirates, said many Arabs, plagued by a sense of powerlessness, will feel depressed at first, despite Saddam's crimes. "For a while, there will be a sense of resignation, let down, that this is one more (Arab) defeat," he said. "But what was defeated primarily in Baghdad is Arab oppression, the one-party system which was unable to defend its country for more than three weeks, and its capital for more than 48 hours. What was defeated in this battle was not the Arabs but the regime of oppression." That's a better analysis. We don't care that they're Arabs. The Arabs and the wannabe Arabs made more of that than we did, for propaganda purposes. Funny how they didn't dwell on the oppression until Iraqis started dancing in the streets and the fat ladies began to sing...
Three men having tea and smoking water pipes in a coffee shop in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, were unsettled as they watched the television even though they said they were against Saddam and felt sorry for the long-suffering Iraqis. "But I can't say that I'm happy about what's going on because these are non-Muslim forces that have gone in and I hope they will not stay," said Mohammed ElSakkaf, a 58-year-old businessman. "No, no. Can't have a bunch of people who don't belong to the Master Religion setting things right. Nope."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 12:27 pm ||
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In other fake news today, a touching human-interest story: In a secret interview with Information Minister Mohammed Said Sahaf conducted by a BBC reporter, the minister revealed the motivations behind what has become the most popular daily event ever. "I realize that some have tried comparing me to the truly incomparable Andy Kaufmann," he said. "But, really, Kaufmann was all about being 'in the moment', like a method actor. What I was trying to do was more in the spirit of Jon Lovitz' 'Compulsive Liar' character, you know, this guy who so needed to impress people that he couldn't help telling ever greater whoppers. 'You know why everyone in Japan looks alike? It's because they all look like me!' Man, that one kills me every time!" Also during the interview he suggested that his performances may also have been to catch the attention of Hollywood: "It seems like a such a good deal, the Hollywood thing. I mean think about it; here I have to use my stand-up routines, under penalty of death, mind you, to foster support for a totalitarian regime, but in Hollywood I can make huge sums of money, get into sex and drugs on a level that would make Qusay tremble, and I can do it making fun of the very socio-economic system that lifts me to fame and fortune. I mean, damn! Hook me up, Hollywood, know what I mean?"
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In a related story, Eli Lilly & Company projected improved second quarter sales, driven by a large spike in demand for the company's flagship antidepressant, Prozac, in the Middle East and parts of Europe.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/09/2003 13:19 Comments ||
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If they have such great sympathy for the Iraqi people
Why did they not send thier own army's to Liberate Iraq.Could it be that they really don't give a damn?
If we were to pull out of there tomorrow, what would these people have to whine about? Oh, yeah. The Japanese.
The DPRK does not want a war but if the United States provokes it at any cost despite its warning, its army and people under the brilliant commander who enforces the great Songun policy will not miss the chance to mercilessly wipe out the enemy and put a final end to the confrontation with the U.S. Kim Yong Chun, Chief of the General Staff of the Korean People's Army, declared this in his report at the national meeting held to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Kim Jong Il's election as Chairman of the DPRK National Defence Commission. I think Songun is "army-based policy: XP".
On the current situation, he said:
The internal and external situation of the Korean revolution at present is very complicated and acute. The United States and other imperialist bellicose forces are now unhesitatingly engrossed in armed attacks on Iraq, a sovereign state, under the pretext of "combating terrorism", thus gravely disturbing global peace and security. They sure are laying some "bellicose" on Iraq...
The U.S. has historically pursued the hostile policy towards the DPRK and recently staged reckless military exercises under the pretext of the "nuclear issue" after bolstering the aggressor armed forces present around Korea, driving the situation on the Korean Peninsula to the brink of a war.
If the UN Security Council is abused for the U.S. hostile policy to stifle the DPRK, the U.S. will be held wholly responsible for the failure of all the efforts for dialogue and the extremely tense situation and the DPRK will have no other option but to beef up the military deterrent force to avert a war and defend the sovereignty and security of the country and the nation by mobilizing its potential to the maximum. The people's army has grown to be a-match-for-a hundred invincible army, possessed of the Juche-based war method and equipped with powerful offensive and defensive means, and all the parts of the country have turned into an impregnable fortress. ...now with "Kung Fu Grip"!
Our country is now demonstrating its might as the world's military power that no formidable enemy dares provoke. ...and they call us "bellicose".
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"... If the UN Security Council is abused for the U.S. hostile policy ..."
The UN Security Council is abusing itself (yes I do know the meaning of the phrase double-entendre) - I wonder if Kim Yong Chun realizes that dross like this report and Kim Jong Il's actions in restarting the reactor for "Nuclear Issues" are just the kind of provocative instances he is warning the US against?
#4
"The internal and external situation of the Korean revolution at present is very complicated and acute."
That's a cool phrase! Maybe we should "juche" it up a bit and we can start writing copy like this.
Actually the situation is very simple: You break the deal, you get the wheel, quoting Thunderdome.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/09/2003 13:48 Comments ||
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I'm pretty sure North Korea has "the Bomb". I'm less certain whether they have "the Food."
Iranian ambassador to Russia said on Wednesday that his country 'does not aim to possess nuclear weapons'. "Our equipment, including centrifuges developed on the basis of Iranian technology, are capable of producing only four-percent uranium for ordinary nuclear fuel," the ambassador, Gholamreza Shafei told Itar-Tass, turning pale. However, 'other technologies are needed for creating weapons components', he stressed. The diplomat also emphasized that 'Iran is going to continue the implementation of an atomic program in line with its earlier plans'. "That program is transparent. It is aimed only at peaceful targets, connected with the development of power industry and economy," the ambassador added. "Iran meets all commitments as IAEA member, and conceals nothing from the world community," Shafei stressed. "Really. Come and look for yourselves. Please."
According to him, 'fears voiced in the USA about an alleged military orientation of the Iranian nuclear sector have no grounds and lack argument'.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 11:47 am ||
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And oil-rich Iran needs nuclear power why precisely?
Posted by: A ||
04/09/2003 12:03 Comments ||
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New Delhi, April 9, IRNA: While condemning the US-led "genocidal and brutal war" on Iraq, Munir, secretary of the World People's Resistance Movement (WPRM) in South Asia said Tuesday evening that the aim of the US is to capture and subjugate the Iraqi people. According to an IRNA reporter, Munir, while presenting the concept paper for the seminar entitled "The US Imperialist War on Iraq and Role of South Asian People in its Resistance," said the main aim of the US was to occupy Iraq's vast resources and at the same time divert the attention of Americans from the spiral of deepening woes of the country. And we should be concerned about what South Asian commies think?
Strongly condemning the US imperialistic design led by the "fanatic, obstinate, warmonger President George W Bush," he said the US is now intimidating all countries into submitting to its hegemony as the sole gang leader of the earth. Munir, in a well-attended gathering at Rabindra Bhawan Auditorium here, said that the US, with its determination to invade Iraq, brushed aside the protest and resistance of the world's people, bypassing even the UN. It is now self-evident that none but US imperialism is the biggest threat and the US the principal birthplace of terrorism in the world," he said. Either that, or the world's salvation. Didn't he get the memo that the commies are dead?
Showing solidarity with the brave Iraqi people who have been giving the barbarian US-UK forces a tough fight, Munir said the Iraqi people have unleashed a mighty wave of heroic resistance all over the country and are fighting gallantly against the world's No.1 enemy. He noted that after three weeks of deadly war, Yankee imperialism is still almost where it was at the start of the war. In essence, for US imperialist invaders, Iraq has proved to be a hard nut to crack. This is obviously a person who does not read the papers...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 11:31 am ||
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"The US Imperialist War on Iraq and Role of South Asian People in its Resistance"
Tehran, April 9, IRNA: Vice President and Head of the Department of the Environment (DoE) Masoumeh Ebtekar here on Wednesday, in a letter to environment ministers and senior officials of world states, called for serious and bold measures to effectively end the destruction war in neighboring Iraq. Already being done, girly. Or did you have something else in mind?
In her letter, she stressed that continuation of the war would bring long-term, disastrous effects on the environment in the region. "The ongoing war is threatening the future of humanity, peace, justice and the sustainable development goals of countries," she said. The international community has been seriously weakened and does not pay attention to the shouts of protest of the global community, she said in her letter. Good thing, too, or Iraq would still be stuck with Sammy. Why don'tcha go write a memo or something?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/09/2003 11:12 am ||
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Edited for length:
Iran has made a rare conciliatory gesture towards the United States by endorsing the U.S. statement that coalition forces had not damaged the Shiite religion's two holiest shrines in Iraq. Iran's official Islamic Republic News Agency carried a telephone interview on Tuesday with a prominent Shiite cleric who said the shrines were "untouched." The Iraqi cities of Najaf and Karbala have the mausoleums of the first and the third imams of the Shiite Muslims. Any damage to these shrines could inflame emotions across the Islamic world as Islam's majority Sunni sect also regards the two imams as holy, one of whom -- Ali -- was the son-in-law of Prophet Mohammed and the other -- Hussain -- his grandson. Since Iran is so far the world's only Shiite state, Iran's endorsement of the U.S. claim would go a long way in pacifying the Shiites, particularly in Iraq where the Shiites are a majority. Observers say that if Iran wanted, it could have turned up the heat on the Americans by endorsing a counter-claim by Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf who said last Wednesday that coalition forces were trying to destroy the two mausoleums. Instead, the official news agency ran an interview with a prominent Shiite cleric, Seyyed Abdelmajid al-Khoei who said: " This claim that holy sites have been damaged is not true at all." I posted his statement in full yesterday. This seems to confirm that it was cleared by the Iranian government.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 09:21 am ||
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It's a hell of a thing when admitting the easily verifiable truth is a "rare conciliatory gesture". Progress is progress, but from how deep a hole!
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Doesn't say much for Iran's credibility either had they adopted the position of Baghdad Bob/ Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf, who, as someone cheerfully noted here, had to have been on crack most of the time to keep reality at bay
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/09/2003 11:26 Comments ||
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I guess it was OK by Islam for the Paloe's to treat the Church of the Nativity as an open sewer for 4 months, though... Don't recall their statement. Oh wait, now I do..."Kill Jews!"
Iran has rejected a British offer to dispatch an envoy to Basra to receive remains of some 200 bodies that it says are those of Iranian soldiers killed in the 1980-88 war with Iraq. The Persian-language newspaper `Javan' on Wednesday quoted a ranking army commander as saying that accepting the offer could be interpreted as Iran's recognizing the occupation of Iraq by the invading US-British troops. `Javan' quoted Brigadier-General Mirfeisal Baqerzadeh, the head of the search and recovery committee for those missing in action, as saying that Iran's Foreign Ministry is currently following certain procedures to receive the remains through the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC). Baqerzadeh had said that the remains were those of Iranian soldiers discovered over the recent months in joint recovery operations, and that they were to be repatriated to Iran before the war started. Uh huh, funny how they all died from head wounds.
The daily further quoted the army commander as saying that Iran will take delivery of the remains from the ICRC, once it announces readiness to do so, in the Shalamcheh border point with Iraq. Whenever, they ain't going nowhere.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 08:14 am ||
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How will this news be received in Iran? Their MIA and KIA were withheld (or unexcavated or not bothered with) for 15+ years. Then the British come and offer them over immediately.
The clerics try to spin it by going through the ICRC. But what about all the veterans in Iran? What about the military? What about the generation of people who lived through that war? The mullahs must look supremely petty at this point (more than usual).
I've got a good feeling about Iran's future (unlike Pakistan's). The mullahs won't last. The democratic reformers will have democratic partners next door to the west.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
04/09/2003 8:55 Comments ||
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This is absurd and absolutely disgusting! Using the bodies of your own servicemen as propaganda tools while their families are forced to wait for God-knows-how-long to get their loved ones back. All so the (@)#&$ mullahs can make political points. How much lower can they go?
Posted by: Dar ||
04/09/2003 9:04 Comments ||
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There is something not right here. Original reports said there were many photographs of people shot in the head at the site.
FWIIW I think the Iraqis were shipping bodies of Iraqis killed by the regime to Iran.
We will probably never know the truth.
Posted by: Phil B ||
04/09/2003 9:52 Comments ||
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Phil B., the Brits found records at the site detailing who the bodies were and how they died. Some just gave the name and said "Executed". Iran gets the bodies, we keep the records for the war crimes trial.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 10:18 Comments ||
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Brits just have yet to locate an Iranian "decision maker" who will sign for the delivery... "Uh, no, I will have to ask my boss"... Accepting them through the Red Cresent will be easier in the long run.
Cleric and journalist Taha Hashemi has lashed out at what he described as "radical acts" by certain groups during recent anti-war rallies in front of the British Embassy in Tehran, warning that such measures could harm the Islamic Republic. The English-language newspaper `Iran Daily' on Wednesday quoted Hashemi as saying that any effort to seize embassies in Iran under the prevailing sensitive juncture would give the enemies a pretext against the country. "Many have not yet understood that they behave according to the realities of the time and that attacking and capturing embassies and representative offices of other countries are things of the past," Iran Daily quoted the director of the Persian-language newspaper `Entekhab' as saying.
Yasss... They're very well-remembered things of the past...
A number of theological students and Basiji paramilitary forces staged a demonstration in front of the British Embassy in Tehran on Monday, calling for an abrupt end to the ongoing war in neighboring Iraq. Some of the protestors reportedly attempted to capture the embassy but their move was foiled by the police who have tightened security near the British Embassy since a pickup smashed into the wall of the compound last week, killing the driver. The Iranian Foreign Ministry announced that the incident had nothing to do with the Iraq war.
No, storming the British embassy would not have been a good idea. No, no, and no...
Hashemi said that violent acts under such sensitive regional circumstances will only give invaders a pretext to isolate the Islamic Republic internationally. "We have paid a high price for acts of extremism in the past and the country is still suffering from the consequences of radicalism at the moment," he said in clear reference to the 1979 seizure of the US Embassy in Tehran, which severed ties between Tehran and Washington and provoked the United States to freeze Iran's huge assets in that country. Translation: "Guys, the 70's are over and that ain't no peanut farmer in the White House".
Posted by: Steve ||
04/09/2003 08:01 am ||
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Dumb and Dumber.
The black hats of Iran, and their pet "revolutionary guard" dobermanns, are artifacts of the past. The regular people of Iran will toss these tossers out on their black heads within the next few years.
If the citizenry doesn't find the opportunity because only the Rev Guard and Official Armed Forces are, in fact, armed (the populace is not), and ask for assistance, perhaps we can accommodate them.
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That behavior is now only tolerated duritg the annual three day holiday weekend known as "Death to America" days Where they get to leave work early and whack themselves on the head with boards.
Next year sponsored by Band Aid...
Thanks to Command Post for the tip.
A trust fund has been set up for the two children, ages 4 and 3, of Army Pfc. Lori Piestewa of Tuba City, AZ. Pfc Piestawa was one of eight soldiers whose bodies were found during the rescue of Pfc Jessica Lynch; their unit, the 507th Maintenance Company, was ambushed on March 23 near Nasiriyah. Piestewa was the first American servicewoman, and first American Indian, to be killed in Operation Iraqi Freedom. She was a single mother; her children are living with her parents in Tuba City. Those wishing to contribute to the fund, which will be used to raise the children and for their future educational needs, can send checks to"Lori Piestewa's Memorial Fund" at any Wells Fargo bank. The account has been set up under the auspices of the Hopi Nation.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 01:24 am ||
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Thanks so much for finding and posting this.
I've passed the info along to a friend who was greatly upset by the news, and wished the best for the kids. Now she can actually do something to help.
Arab nations have formally asked the 191-member UN General Assembly to convene a special meeting to adopt a resolution calling for ceasefire in Iraq and respect its sovereignty and territorial integrity. "We're doing it for the Children!"
The Arab Group's chairman Ambassador Abdullah Alsaidi of Yemen, who sent in the request, said they are moving the assembly as there is no chance of such a resolution being adopted by the 15-member Security Council. That veto thing works both ways, doesn't it Abdullah?
Any resolution adopted by the assembly is not binding but could prove amusing embarrassing for the United States and Britain who are seen by a majority of the members as waging a war that is not authorised by the Security Council. The Arabs said about 50 countries who are supporting the United States might try to block a debate in the assembly but they had made the request in view of the fierce fighting in which thousands might maybeperhapscould have beenprobably weren't have been killed. The Arabs sent in their request on Tuesday after a closed-door meeting of the 116-member Non Aligned Movement (NAM) failed to develop a consensus on seeking the session. Arab diplomats had been working for days to get the support of the NAM. Sounds like the usual Arab effectiveness at work. Can't these guys do anything?
But diplomats say it could be several days before the General Assembly convenes as the US and Britain are working against it, asserting that it was unnecessary and would be divisive. The assembly's 28-member General Committee is scheduled to consider the request on Friday, diplomats say. I say have the vote anytime after Friday. Shootin' may be mostly over by then anyways.
Kinda late for a ceasefire now, isn't it?
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 01:13 am ||
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So, we now have about 50 countries on our side, up from about 30 when we started? Nothing like hopping on the victory train.
Damn, the UN can't even get it together to discuss a vote on a conflict well underway, and we're supposed to let them run Iraq when we are done?
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 8:26 Comments ||
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Well, we just pulled down the Saddam Statue in the center of Baghdad - so they can have their cease fire in about a week, right after we done with Tikrit, Kirkuk and Mosul.
President Bush designated Wednesday as a day of national recognition for former U.S. prisoners of war and pledged to work for the safe return of Americans captured in the Iraq war. "These brave men and women in uniform follow in the footsteps of these former POWs who placed country above self to advance peace in a troubled world," Bush said in the proclamation he issued Tuesday. Seven U.S. soldiers are POWs in Iraq, and U.S. officials are trying to determine their location. The Pentagon says it is holding more than 7,000 Iraqi POWs. Bush's proclamation declares April 9 to be "National Former Prisoner of War Recognition Day." "As we honor our former POWs, we are reminded of our current POWs, captured in Operation Iraqi Freedom," the declaration said. "We will work to secure their freedom, and we pray for their speedy and safe return." To all the POWs, past and present: we honor you.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 01:05 am ||
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Ivory Coast rebels accused the government of bombing a border town on Tuesday, threatening a newly formed unity government. Ivory Coast army spokesman Lt. Col. N'Goran Aka denied the rebel claims, saying he knew of no combat in the region. "Lies! All lies!"
A rebel leader, Deli Gaspard, said the attack took place in the town of Danane, about 35 miles north of Bin-Houye. Both towns are near Ivory Coast's border with Liberia. ``We deplore these attacks,'' said Gaspard by satellite telephone from the western stronghold town of Man, calling the bombing unprovoked. ``We attacked no one.'' "We haven't shot at anyone in days weeks!" Lt. Col. Philippe Perret, a spokesman for the French army - which has more than 3,000 troops guarding an oft-violated cease-fire line - said he was aware of fighting in the area, but had no further details. Rebel representatives last Thursday joined a unity government arranged under a unilaterally French-brokered January peace deal. Rebels boycotted earlier meetings of the government. They now say they will not go to the next meeting of the government in Abidjan on Wednesday, citing security concerns. Sounds like they're setting the stage for renewing the revolution.
Last week's government meeting raised hopes that the new transitional government would help end the six-month insurgency in the world's top cocoa producer and former French colony. Rebel forces have occupied the north and much of Ivory Coast's cocoa- and coffee-rich west since a failed September coup attempt. Fighting has killed more than 3,000 people, according to government estimates, and has displaced more than a million. Ivory Coast has been plagued by instability since a 1999 coup shattered the country's decades-long reputation as a West African economic powerhouse and bastion of peace. They're not going to be a bastion of peace for a long time to come.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/09/2003 12:47 am ||
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Lets not forget what religion those rebels are ...
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Let's also not forget that the French came in, unilaterally, and IMPOSED a settlement on the Ivory Coast that does little good and pleases no one.
Someone should remind the French - about six times a day.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/09/2003 12:48 Comments ||
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Think this could be the "French Vietnam"? Wait a minute, they've already had a Vietnam. It was ...oh, yeah... Vietnam! Maybe this could be the "French Afghanistan"?
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tu3031-- only if you mean Afghanistan like their new buddy Russia's experience with that country. Hmm.....arming the rebels to fight the French? Dare we? ;)
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/09/2003 19:09 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Three decades of rule by Saddam Hussein appeared to be collapsing in Baghdad today, as US troops mopping up fading resistance there were cheered by jubilant Iraqis. US central command said it was premature to say the war was won, as some areas of Baghdad were still under the control of Saddam loyalists. But with looting breaking out unhindered, it was clear his regime was unravelling. Guardian reporter James Meek, who was with US marines in Baghdad, said resistance to the Americans had "all but collapsed". Downing Street said "command and control in Baghdad appeared to have disintegrated". TV pictures showed Iraqis welcoming US forces and chaotic scenes of government buildings being looted without any sign of Iraqi police or troops keeping order. There were also reports of Iraqis celebrating in the city of Irbil, 220 miles north of Baghdad. In Baghdad, the United Nations headquarters and shops near the Olympic Committee's building were ransacked, as were military installations, government buildings and research institutions. Government computers, furniture and even military jeeps were taken from sites around the city. There were also signs that Iraq's efforts to sustain its public relations campaign were collapsing after government-employed journalists' minders failed to turn up for their work. 
