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Afghanistan
Bin Laden said to be in border region
Osama bin Laden is alive, in good health and living in the border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan, the suspected No. 3 al-Qaida leader told his interrogators after being captured last weekend, a Pakistani intelligence official said today. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed said he met with bin Laden in recent weeks using a complicated network of phone calls, runners and intermediaries to line up the visit. The meeting took place in Pakistan's southwestern Baluchistan province or in the rugged mountain peaks that run along the border with Afghanistan. Mohammed said he didn't know bin Laden's exact whereabouts now, but that he was in the region.
I think we've been mostly looking for him in NWFP or in Kunar province in Afghanistan...
In what appeared to corroborate Mohammed's information, the Associated Press received similar information on Monday from a former Taliban intelligence chief. In a telephone interview from Kandahar in southern Afghanistan, the former intelligence chief said bin Laden was seen in South Waziristan in Baluchistan province less than two months ago. Bin Laden was meeting with Taliban members, he said. His report could not be independently verified, but both U.S Special Forces and Pakistani soldiers are in South Waziristan trying to flush out fugitive Taliban and al-Qaida. Several sources say that bin Laden moves with only a small number of guards, changing his location nightly, never using satellite telephones. Instead he reportedly sends messages through intermediaries to a selected person who makes telephone calls on his behalf. Another intelligence official earlier told the AP that a raid was carried out on a house in Wana in South Waziristan earlier this year after a tip was received that bin Laden's top lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahri, was there. The raid led to the arrest of some Afghan Taliban, but not al-Zawahri.
I think that with evidence Binny is actually still alive, we'll be looking for him harder now, and maybe the Paks will, too...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 01:26 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Ok - it's 3rd hand, but...Drudge is reporting that the Jerusalem Post is reporting that Bush's news conference tonight will be to announce the capture of Bin Laden. There's too much traffic to the JPost right now to confirm - the front page isn't loading right
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 14:03 Comments || Top||

#2  Per the BBC and FNC, the bin Laden capture rumor is bunk.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 03/06/2003 14:27 Comments || Top||

#3  Frank ---Contingency Plan if we get the bastard alive: I will make ham sandwiches for all interregators and subject. Got to keep his strength up. In all seriousness, if we get him, great. But our great task is to go for the money, and that goes thru Iraq, Iran, and Saudi.
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/06/2003 14:31 Comments || Top||

#4  Dan and Anon - agreed - but I'd still like to see this piece of s*&t in Bagram, then on his way to the sunny Caribbean if for no other reason than to do some justice and send a message. I don't think OBL is important other than for symbolic reasons, he doesn't know more than KSM. I think KSM's capture would cause some anxiety and possibly forcing these guys to be on the move - that'll make it easier to snag 'em
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 16:44 Comments || Top||

#5  Yeah, OBL is like the President of a corporation. KSM was the CEO, and knows more.

Still, sending him to Gitmo would send a powerful message to the others there...
Posted by: Ptah || 03/06/2003 17:08 Comments || Top||

#6  Unfortunately, sending him to Gitmo would also send a powerful message to a bunch of people who don't approve of the fact that the US fights back.
We'd be hearing "Ok, war's over".

If they catch him, or if he's dead, I hope we (and they)do not hear about it!
Posted by: Kathy K || 03/06/2003 18:03 Comments || Top||

#7  Maybe Binny is more useful being alive and on the lam. Keep him boxed in, like a rook fencing in a king to wander in a small area of a chessboard. He is a liability to any country that hosts him. Just an evil and practical thought....
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/06/2003 19:05 Comments || Top||

#8  Osama captured would certainly be an outstanding development. As would the elimination of Saad bin Laden, al-Zawahiri, al-Adel, Mr. Mauritania, and any number of other shadowy figures who make up al-Qaeda's Shura Majlis, its board of directors. While I would love to see the bastard's ass pinned to the wall, but KSM's capture is good enough for the time being.

IMO, the most likely destination for Osama is Iran. His son and heir apparent was sited there recently and I can easily see the ayatollahs giving him safe haven. I tried to argue this point back in November 2002 but got shouted down wherever I brought it up because I dared to offer the possibility that bin Laden was alive. All the stuff about elaborate conspiracies and CIA plots always struck me as the work of people who have seen way too many spy movies.

In any case, Iran continues to harbor any number of al-Qaeda (at least 600, per their "deportation" figures) and should be the next stop after the Baathist regime in Baghdad is destroyed, followed by our "good friends" the Saudis. I ultimately think that the twin ideologies of Wahhabism and Khomeinism are the most responsible for the wave of Islamic terrorism our planet has been experiencing in some form or another ever since the Ottoman Empire fell.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 03/07/2003 0:13 Comments || Top||

#9  If captured he should be put on internationally televised trial.This would send the message"you can run,you can hide.But we will get you,we will not relent.No matter the cost,no matter how much time it takes your days are severly limited.

As a side issue,I caught a news snippet the other day saying John W.Lindh Taliboy par exedunce had got his butt thumped in prison.
That brought on a smile.
Posted by: raptor || 03/07/2003 6:52 Comments || Top||


Arabia
Kuwait holds five alleged militants
Kuwait says it has arrested five suspected Islamic militants and seized a large quantity of weapons and ammunition that the men were allegedly training with. The five men — four Kuwaitis and one other, all in their mid-30s — told security police they had been learning to operate the weapons in desert areas. They said they had buried other weapons such as hand grenades, cannons and shells, a Kuwaiti Interior Ministry statement said. Many of the items found were left behind by Iraqi forces after they were ousted from Kuwait by US-led troops during the Gulf War in 1991.
They just keep coming. I'm glad the Kuwaitis are on this so closely...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 04:44 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Britain
UK holds Greek on terror charges
A Greek citizen arrested 10 days ago in northern England has appeared before British magistrates on anti-terrorism charges. Haralambos Dousemertzis, 25, a former student at Northumbria University in northeast England, was remanded in custody when he appeared before Bedlington magistrates on Tuesday. Dousemertzis, who has lived in Britain for the past eight years, is accused of possessing articles which could be used to instigate, prepare or commission acts of terrorism. Arrested on February 25 in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, he was charged with two offenses under Section 57 of the Terrorism Act 2000. Reports from London said Greek consular authorities had not been notified of Dousemertzis’s arrest. They added that police had found posters associated with the November 17 group and books on international terrorism in his room. The charges carry a maximum 10-year sentence.
I hope they've got a little more than that to go on. I've got a bunch of books on international terrorism in my room, too...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 01:50 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  As do I. But I don't have any posters praising it...
Posted by: Kathy K || 03/06/2003 18:09 Comments || Top||


Europe
Yet more Germans out of work
German unemployment has risen to 11.3%, its highest level during the government of Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. The figure is another embarrassment to Mr Schroeder, who has promised to bring unemployment down. Economy Minister Wolfgang Clement described the latest data as "extremely serious" but rejected speculation that promised tax cuts would be brought forward in order to encourage economic growth. Despite the worsening situation, the head of the German Federal Labour Office, Florian Gerster, promised a significant fall towards the end of the year. But Mr Gerster added the improvement was dependent upon a wider economic recovery in the second half of the year. Whoo, boy! This economy stinks!
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 04:57 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Tax cuts would make him look too much like Cowboy Dubya...
Posted by: Ptah || 03/06/2003 17:09 Comments || Top||

#2  Germany has higher gasoline prices than us due to taxes, so they should be more able to handle a dollar increase. But a dollar increase is still a dollar increase even if it is only a 20% increase to them. This doesn't help the German economy, they need a decisive ending to Iraq just like we do to have any prospect of getting things started again.
Posted by: Vea Victis || 03/06/2003 17:31 Comments || Top||

#3  Well what a surprise. The lesson is: never EVER vote for a Socialist who is promising tax cuts.....'cause it ain't ever gonna happen. It's only gonna get worse for them as we start moving our troops out and they begin to feel the pinch of not having that cash flow.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 03/06/2003 17:36 Comments || Top||

#4  Herr Schroeder:

Economics 101: TANSTAFL

There ain't no such thing as a Free Lunch

This applies to Socialists, too, like gravity.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/06/2003 19:12 Comments || Top||

#5  The gas price was over a dollar a gallon back in 1975.......hence no muscle cars. Like Titus said, we build monster trucks just for fun...piss us off and see what we build!!!
Posted by: Rocky || 03/06/2003 22:27 Comments || Top||


Police keep Romanian prostitutes away from US soldiers
Officers in Constanta are running round-the-clock patrols and raiding brothels to stop prostitutes meeting US soldiers who have recently arrived at a nearby airbase. "We want to test all the prostitutes we can to see if they have any sexually transmitted diseases. "We have already taken 10 girls aged 19 to 33 into custody and tests have showed that they all have syphilis. They are a real danger to anyone's health."
"And we've got 90 others in the cells we're happy with"
The paper said officers feared prostitutes from other parts of the country could be heading to the city to "make a fast buck" by having sex with American soldiers.
Does that mean the going rates a buck for a fast f...?
Posted by: Bulldog || 03/06/2003 10:31 am || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Flies spread diseases. Keep yours up!"
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 03/06/2003 11:35 Comments || Top||


US Customs Officers Now Inspecting Cargo Leaving Antwerp
An anti-terror initiative that makes sense:
BRUSSELS – Five American customs officers have now clocked up a week checking the contents of containers bound for the US at the port of Antwerp. The port presence is a consequence of an agreement between Belgium and the US signed in June of last year on the application of the Container Security Initiative (CSI). The project, which was first put into motion the day after the events of 11 September, is an attempt to intercept weapons of mass destruction at ports of departure. Antwerp is one of the world’s top 20 major ports from which 70 percent of US imports originate.
Posted by: Seafarious || 03/06/2003 10:32 am || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Damn, missed opportunity. Great moment to insist that we only accept traffic from Rotterdam [you know those nice Dutch who didn't wait upon the Gang of Three to sent Patriot missiles to Turkey] rather than from Antwerp, BE, junior member AoW.
Posted by: Don || 03/06/2003 9:45 Comments || Top||


Bulgaria to buy US arms, ready for US redeployment on its soil
Bulgaria is to replace 500 Russian tanks with US-made models and would welcome a move by Washington to base more troops in Bulgaria, Defence Minister Nikolai Svinarov told the Dnevnik newspaper on Thursday. "We will replace 500 Russian T-72 tanks which we hope to sell off within two months," he was quoted as saying.
Guess they noticed how well the T72s performed in Gulf War I. I've always wondered how the Russers managed to sell any tanks after that...
Svinarov said the replacements would be supplied by General Dynamics, which makes tanks for the US military and confirmed he had held talks with another US company, Unisys, on building a national defence command centre for Bulgaria.

The minister last week accompanied Bulgarian Prime Minister Simeon Saxe-Coburg to Washington for talks with US President George Bush. The White House tried to secure the support of Bulgaria, a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council, for a proposed resolution paving the way for war on Iraq. Svinarov confirmed that Washington also "put out feelers" about sending US troops currently based in Germany, to Bulgaria as part of a redeployment towards eastern Europe with a view to a possible war. Such a step "would be good for the Bulgarian army and economy", he said, adding that "developments in this regard will obviously happen before the end of the year." Svinarov said the defence ministry could earn about 280,000 dollars (307,000 euros) from a base that takes 200 soldiers, he said. The minister said bases at Ravnetz and Novo, in the east, Chabla, on the Black Sea, and at Bezmer, Graf-Ignatievo, and Koren, all in the south, could all accommodate US troops, though the US army could only choose one.

The Bulgarian parliament on February 7 authorized the United States to use the Sarafovo airport on the Black Sea for air refueling, as they had during the war in Afghanistan, and two refueling aircraft arrived there this week. The government has said that it is still to decide whether to support the US bid for another resolution against Baghdad, which France, Germany and Russia have vowed to block. Bulgaria has muted its initial strong support for the hardline US position on Iraq but Russian President Vladimir Putin said Sunday during a visit to Sofia that he had failed to win the former Soviet-era ally over to the anti-war coalition.
Posted by: Dominigo || 03/06/2003 10:35 am || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This doesn't mean Abrams tanks, does it? Do we share them with anyone?

Other than that, we certainly wouldn't ship them old M-60s--if they even wanted them! Are we talking just light armor here?
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg || 03/06/2003 11:19 Comments || Top||

#2  I believe the Israelis use M1A1s. I think there the only one's who do, maybe Japan, Taiwan ?
Also, if they are new tanks, 500 hundred is a significant production run, that's not chicken feed, or goat feed either..
Posted by: Domingo || 03/06/2003 11:31 Comments || Top||

#3  Opps, according to FAS.org the Israelis use an upgraded M60A3, which looks an awful lot like an Abrams.
Posted by: Domingo || 03/06/2003 11:43 Comments || Top||

#4  Egypt has M1A1's with the latest 120mm ammo. AH64s too. :(
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/egypt/m1a1.htm
Do the Israelis even have any M1s? I thought that they had all Merkavas.
Posted by: Dave || 03/06/2003 11:53 Comments || Top||

#5  Dar: The Koreans also make an Abrams knock off called the K1. It's basically the same tank minus whatever corners the Koreans cut.
Posted by: 11A5S || 03/06/2003 12:28 Comments || Top||

#6  "We will replace 500 Russian T-72 tanks which we hope to sell off within two months,"

Uh, who is in the market for 500 T-72s? E-Bay?
Posted by: john || 03/06/2003 13:01 Comments || Top||

#7  I suspect that the electronics and software associated with the domestics and exported configurations is very different. A friend of mine in the defense industry noted that 80% of cost for new weapons systems is software development.
Posted by: Domingo || 03/06/2003 13:03 Comments || Top||

#8  Foreign sales M1 do not have Chobam armor.
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/06/2003 13:20 Comments || Top||

#9  Yikes. I'd hate to see the shipping charge for a T-72 on ebay.
Posted by: Jeremy || 03/06/2003 15:40 Comments || Top||

#10  Saudi Arabia is rolling on M1A2 SEP if I remeber correctly, the sale kept the production line open and Israel screamed bloody murder so we gave them Longbow. Saudi F15s are also more advanced than ours or the Israels. So the Saudis have the best tanks and air superiorty fighters in the world. Better than ours since we only have a few M1A2 SEPs and I believe we cut all funding to upgrade more M1A1s to that level last year.
Posted by: Vea Victis || 03/06/2003 17:50 Comments || Top||

#11  Slightly OT, but who does the real a/c and tank maintenance for the Saudis? Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/06/2003 19:16 Comments || Top||

#12  And who could forget that Toledo Ohio unselfishly gave us the scale. No springs, honest weight, that's the promise they made, so smile and be thankful next time you get weighed. And here's to the dogs of Toledo Ohio, Congresswoman we bid you farewell.
Posted by: becky || 03/06/2003 20:36 Comments || Top||

#13  oh DEAR! How did I post the above here? It was supposed to go under the topic of the good congresswoman from Toledo. Time for bed.
Posted by: becky || 03/06/2003 20:43 Comments || Top||

#14  C'mon, Becky! I thought you were an expert! Pull it together!
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg || 03/06/2003 22:44 Comments || Top||


Fifth Column
Ohio Dummycrat wins today's bonehead statement award
Before launching a military strike against Iraq, Americans should consider their own history to remember how powerful the mix of religion and politics can be, U.S. Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D., Toledo) said.
It's funny how a Dim has no problem bringing up religion with a straight face when it further's their agenda.
"If you think back to our founding as a country, we are a country of revolution," Miss Kaptur said in an interview this week. She and the Rev. Jim Bacik, pastor of Toledo’s Corpus Christi University Parish, will speak at a workshop Friday for local Catholic leaders titled "Preaching and Teaching Peace in the Face of War."
I'll bet they can hardly wait...
When America "cast off monarchical Britain" in 1776, it involved the help of many religious people who had fled repression in other countries, the 11-term Toledo congressman said. Among the nontraditional American revolutionaries were the Green Mountain Boys, a patriot militia organized in 1770 in Bennington, Vt., to confront British forces, she said.
"One could say that Osama bin Laden and these non-nation-state fighters with religious purpose are very similar to those kind of atypical revolutionaries that helped to cast off the British crown," Miss Kaptur said.
So Osama would be the Muslim equivalent of, who? Washington? Jefferson? Ethan Allen? This ditz is an 11 term congressman? Way to go Toledo!
One could maybe say that if one was deeply under the influence of powerful recreational medications, I suppose. Or if one had been dropped on one's head. I can't think of many other situations where... Oh. Yeah. I guess one could say that if one was a dim-witted congressperson who hasn't had any headlines in awhile and who thinks her district is really, really safe...
In Iraq and other Arab nations where revolutions are potentially brewing, religious fervor will play a vital role in shaping political events, she said, and the United States must be careful "not to get caught in the crossfire."
We're already in the crossfire, honey. Go look at those 2 big holes in the ground in New York.
It isn't getting "caught in the crossfire" when it's you they're shooting at...
"I think that one thing that people of faith understand about the world of Islam is that the kind of insurgency we see occurring in many of these countries is an act of hope that life will be better using Islam as the only reed that they have to lean on.
Hope in one hand, poop in the other, and see which one fills first. A philosophy of "kill all infidels and rape their wimmin" isn't a philosophy of hope, it's a philosophy of murder and rapine...
"I think that people of faith understand that for many of the terrorists, their actions are acts of sacred piety to the point of losing their lives. And I think that people of faith understand that there is a heavy religious overtone to the opposition."
It's a Religion of Peace, right Marcy?
There's also a heavy overtone of lunacy in the terror machine. Apparently there is in some corners of Congress, too...
If the United States ousts Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein and seizes the land, it would not resolve the underlying problems leading to political and social upheaval, she said. "Even if we take the ground, we do not share the culture," she said, "and in the end we have to learn to coexist in a world with religious states that we may not agree with and find ways to cooperate."
Kumbaya, Marcy, Kumbaya...
Iraq isn't a religious state. It's a secular state. Sammy mumbles something about "Allah" when it suits his purposes, otherwise spends his time smoking cigars, drinking whisky, and diddling a bevy of mistresses — when he's not killing people in inventive manners...
Miss Kaptur, a lifelong member of The Dumbass Club Toledo’s Little Flower Catholic Parish, said her political and moral views were influenced by her family’s tradition of Roman Catholicism and service in the U.S. Marine Corps and Army infantry.
When were you in Marcy? Dims like bringing up their military backgrounds, even if they don't have one personally.
"Our tradition is to exhaust all reasonable means before one goes to war because our family, like so many others in our area, knows the price of war," she said. The standards of the "Just War Theory," developed by Saint Augustine in the 4th Century, are not clearly defined in the present U.S.-Iraq showdown, Miss Kaptur said. "I think that’s why there is so much angst and division over this because we’re in the gray area here," she said. "People of religious tradition are making their voices be heard very loudly on this one. I think there’s sort of an instinctual sense that something isn’t right here, and while they know there is a problem they are not sure that war is the solution."
"Us morally superior people know that war is not the answer — blabber is. If you talk long enough and witlessly enough, eventually you'll either bore your opponent to death or he'll laugh himself to death. Not that we have any opponents, mind you..."
The Catholic tradition calls for embracing the poor and the dispossessed, Miss Kaptur said. Rather than initiating military action, the United States should try to counter the poverty and repression that breed terrorism in the Mideast.
Good idea. Let's try and counter the poverty and repression that breed terrorism in Iraq by killing Sammy. He's been repressing his people for 30 years. They used to be fairly well off, because of the oil in their country, until he started spending all the dough on armaments and trying to steal Kuwait...
"I think food and education will help stem the poverty of the young people who are being drawn into terrorism every day," she said. "The reason I think this is such an important moment in history is because the United States cannot become the target of the anguish of the dispossessed in the most undemocratic region of the world."
Maybe we're going over to do something about that, Marcy?
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/06/2003 03:26 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  First Murray, now this hose-bag. I pray that someone is taking names down, so that these morons can be made to face the music when the time comes, especially at election time. We finally get to see the true face of the Liberals in this country who have managed to hide just below the surface. As war gets closer they just can't resist opening their big, fat, nauseating cake holes and expose themselves for the empty shell of a human being that they really are. 9/11...Never forget!...Never forgive!
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 03/06/2003 14:57 Comments || Top||

#2  If it's not soul-searching, it's backpedaling.

Got this from a friend:

Senator Clinton is currently taking a poll of her constituents re: the war on Iraq. Please call today-she may be considering taking a stand against the war. The number to call and express your opinion is:

212-688-6262. It takes one second. EVERY VOICE COUNTS. I called, and got through quickly.
---

I called, got through too. It is true; she's taking a poll. Call now; vote yes.
Posted by: growler || 03/06/2003 15:00 Comments || Top||

#3  "caught in the crossfire"?!?!?

Listen you sunt, OBL and his ilk are AIMING AT US... this isn't crossfire, we are UNDER FIRE.
Posted by: Anne Elk || 03/06/2003 15:02 Comments || Top||

#4  Hey, maybe we can take the catholic approach, and gather up all the little Iraqi boys, under the age of oh 12 or so, and let the catholic priests do some of there special mentoring, oh but that wasnt nice now was it...........
Posted by: willis || 03/06/2003 17:49 Comments || Top||

#5  careful with that tar brush Willis - I'm Roman Catholic and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone more pro-"take Saddams head on a plate" than me - it's useful to remember that those who parade their religion, do so to excuse the moral vacuity of their position. As for the Vatican and some of the clergy who are against the war at all costs (moral and the lives of those under the boot), well..that explains the disconnect between most American Catholics and the hierarchy... oh and the priests who molest children? They should've been cast into prison with real molesters a LONG time ago. There's no excuse or rationale why that didn't happen
Frank
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 18:25 Comments || Top||

#6  Frank,I live in central Arizona.We have a very large Catholic population here,all the Catholics I know are good people.But a can't let this go without comment.
"embracing the poor and the dispossessed"
Ms.Marcy would this be the same religion that started several Crusades(including the"Children's Crusade sending thousnds of children to thier deaths from starvation,disease,and slavery)how about the genocide of Jews,Lutherians,and Hugenots.
I seem to remember that it was Catholics who started the Inquisition,wasn't Spainish Catholics who destroyed the cultures and religions of Mexico,Central and South America.
That is not what I would say is a good way to"embracing the poor and the dispossessed".

Posted by: raptor || 03/07/2003 7:20 Comments || Top||

#7  Raptor, yes, most of that is true, and I think a reflection on the many evils done in the name of teh church is also why the church has gone so far to the opposite extreme - saying there's no such thing as a "just" and moral war. I know different, which is why I do not hold the vatican as my own personal hierarchy, and certainly do not consider the pope infallible as is also doctrine. Simply realize that not all Catholics follow the dogma. If I were president Baghdad and Pyongyang would be smoking craters....good thing I'm not, huh?
Posted by: Frank G || 03/07/2003 8:24 Comments || Top||

#8  Hi Frank,guess I should have mentioned Protestant
atrocities too,sorry about that.
I would bet Sadam and JungIl are glad you are not priesident also.

Just heard on local news,break out the beer and lets go utalate in the back yard.News says OBL's son has just been captured.
Posted by: raptor || 03/07/2003 9:24 Comments || Top||


’Taliban John’ Attacked in Prison
Edited for brevity
VICTORVILLE, Calif. — John Walker Lindh, the "American Taliban" who is serving a 20-year sentence in federal prison, may have been attacked behind bars by one or more white supremacists in this desert community northeast of Los Angeles, it was reported Thursday. FBI officials said they have been alerted and do not know if Lindh, 21, had been injured. "I can confirm there was an incident regarding Lindh Monday night," FBI spokeswoman Laura Bosley told the San Bernardino Sun. "There was a report that Lindh was assaulted by another inmate but I cannot disclose any details beyond that."

George Harris, an attorney with the San Francisco firm that represents Lindh, said he was not aware of any incident regarding his client and was concerned for his safety. "I don't know anything about an attack," Harris said. "We would be concerned if my client would be in danger."

Federal Bureau of Prisons spokesman Dan Dunne told the newspaper that the agency does not release information about inmates unless a crime has been committed within prison walls that is prosecutable...

Lindh was placed in general population last month at the request of his attorneys and was working as an orderly cleaning indoors where guards could watch him closely, an anonymous source told the newspaper. Lindh had been in special housing similar to solitary confinement for his protection since Monday, the source said.

Here's a clarifying excerpt from the orginal FoxNews article...The FBI is investigating an attack by a federal prison inmate on John Walker Lindh, who is imprisoned for helping the Taliban in Afghanistan. "There was an assault and we have a pending investigation," FBI spokesman Ed Cogswell said. He said he couldn't comment on the details of an ongoing probe.
FBI's involved because it's a federal prison...
Another law enforcement source said Lindh was uninjured. "It was a minor incident, a prison fight. He got a little scraped up, but he's fine. One guy was picking on him," said this source, speaking on condition of anonymity. The source said it wasn't possible to immediately provide information on Lindh's attacker.
Note that it's just "one guy," not Heinrich Himmler, Jr...
The San Bernardino Sun received an anonymous tip early Tuesday that Lindh had been attacked, possibly by white supremacists.
The brownshirts come in via the anomymous tipster, who could well have an ax to grind...
"Yes, I'd like to inform your newspaper that John Lindh Walker, who is incarcerated in Victorville, was assaulted this night by a white supremacist organization that is imprisoned there. Thank you," the male caller said in a voice message.
There aren't any organizations imprisoned in federal prisons, though there are lots of members of same. It could be so, it could also be that one man's Rotary Club is another man's white supremacist organization...
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg || 03/06/2003 02:07 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  All those of you who feel sorry for Johnny Taliban, raise your hands.

C'mon, there must be someone out there . . . .

Anybody . . . ?
Posted by: Mike || 03/06/2003 11:05 Comments || Top||

#2  I'm no expert on prison society but I suspect being a traitor to your country puts someone in pretty much the same catagory as a jailhouse "snitch". Which is about the same level as child molesters: prey for all the other inmates.
Posted by: Scooter McGruder || 03/06/2003 11:07 Comments || Top||

#3  Why is the FBI alerted on this? He's inside.
Surprised to see he's supposedly in the general population at what appears to be his own request. If he is, this has Office Pool potential.
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/06/2003 11:08 Comments || Top||

#4  Curious. The report identifies "white supremacists" as the perps of the Taliban John assault. The reporter knows this how? Substitute the words " patriotic felons" for "white supremacists".
Posted by: Mark || 03/06/2003 12:36 Comments || Top||

#5  uhhhh... actually most real "white supremacist" are not in prison for their "patriotic" activities unless drug dealing, murder, burglary, robbery, rape , etc. have become patriotic.

point number 2 is that a white supremacist thinks the country has gone to hell, want to change it totally (including armed revolt), and barring that, want to secede and set up their own sovereign country, neither of which are are patriotic.

CitizenX
Posted by: CitizenX || 03/06/2003 12:43 Comments || Top||

#6  Hmm, damn digital sympathy meter is reading "OSL". What the hell does that mean?

*roots around for manual*. Ah, here it is.

Oh.,

Off scale low.
Posted by: Ptah || 03/06/2003 13:55 Comments || Top||

#7  CitizenX, in prison I think being a "white supremacist" has less to do with bigoted racial theory and more to do with not being identified as a "race traitor" by the hard-core lifers. Survival in prision means cliqueing up with your own kind. In the context of this story I just understood it to mean it wasn't the Bloods or Mexican Mafia who attacked ol' John.
Posted by: Scooter McGruder || 03/06/2003 13:59 Comments || Top||

#8  See clarifying comments, above. The white supremacist presence isn't quite so heavy in the original article.
Posted by: Fred || 03/06/2003 14:08 Comments || Top||

#9  Scooter,

in that light it all changes. Having been there (prison) and having known white supremacist, I would make this observation, he may have been the american taliban, but any non-white or race traitor is "fair game." John Walker Lindh was just another "insert racial slur here".

CitizenX
Posted by: CitizenX || 03/06/2003 14:15 Comments || Top||

#10  Well, I didn't start watching OZ until late last season, but shouldn't the Muslims have been a little more protective of "Johnny Taliban"... or did they just get tired of his Cat Stevens collection running 24/7? Sorry Johhny, that ain't a "moonshadow" that's following you!
Posted by: capsu78 || 03/06/2003 14:56 Comments || Top||

#11  Was it ever discovered that he actually knew beforehand about the prison revolt during which Michael Spann was killed?
Posted by: RW || 03/06/2003 15:23 Comments || Top||


UPDATE: "The Pain in Maine Related to Hussein"
Joe Katzman, who originally broke the story of the alleged harassment of servicemen's children by Miane public school teachers at the Winds of Change weblog last week, has a follow-up and summary. His conclusion:
Initial reports of 30 incidents seem to be down to 15-16, on the basis of criteria that are not clear. The Guard's initial numbers to the media were based on complaints, however, an unambiguous measurement. Were the remainder resolved locally and dropped? Determined to be less serious? Duplicate complaints regarding the same situation? No answers in Maine's news reports.

So...
  • We have many good teachers in Maine, and always have. Many serve in the National Guard themselves, and have been called to duty.
  • We have at least some incidents that are reprehensible, and appear to stand up to scrutiny.
  • We still have some uncertainties and fuzzy details.
  • We may not have the incidents some of us imagined in our minds. That's a working belief, however, not yet a firm conclusion.
  • We have a State legislator, Rep. Michael Vaughan, on the case. Also local media, though the story's "lifespan" is beginning to fade for them.
  • We don't have names or direct interviews from accused or accusers, and we are unlikely ever to have them given the Guard's and the parents' refusal to go further in public. This is inconvenient, but hardly surprising under the circumstances. I'd also point out that refusing to name either side, is a significant improvement over the harassment and discrimination procedures of which the Left is so fond.
  • We do have a story that touched a national nerve, based on a combination of a few incidents and widely-observed national patterns and experiences of bias in similar contexts. One hopes that the stored reserves of distrust engendered by such manipulations are finally becoming clear to the profession and to its unions. Personally, I doubt it.
Based on comments in our comment section and letters I've received, we also have a perception among a number of military families that they are looked down on as second class citizens. That's a statement I don't make casually, and an article on this subject will be forthcoming.

On the bright side, we've also seen a very strong response from the public and the media (locally, plus conservative media on a national level). It was certainly noticed in Maine, and there have been no complaints of similar incidents happening since this blew up. I'd venture a guess that there's also a lot more care being taken beyond Maine.

That's good. What needs to stop here isn't just the behaviours reported in Maine, but the classroom politicization and attitudes that are increasingly making such conduct thinkable. People like Lileks aren't wrong to be sensitive to this trend, and to want it stopped. It isn't imaginary.

Politicization of our classrooms and colleges didn't happen overnight, and it won't be cured overnight. It will require relentless and untiring adult scrutiny, backed by expansion of parental choices and incidents that get enough publicity to cause real pain for administrators and teachers when the boundaries are crossed. It will also require a sense of proportion, of civil principles applied rigorously rather than ideology applied disingenuously.

There will be a test in our future. There will, in fact, be many. Will the education system pass? Will we?
(Boldface emphasis and Lileks hyperlink added.)
Posted by: Mike || 03/06/2003 11:25 am || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Thanks Mike.

FYI, here's the link to the full story, including details of the incidents.
Posted by: Joe Katzman || 03/06/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
U.S., Pakistani Forces Look for bin Laden
Pakistani and American forces intensified the search for Osama bin Laden along a southwestern stretch of the border with Afghanistan and carried out raids based on information from a newly captured al-Qaida deputy. At least two raids have been carried out in Baluchistan. There were no major arrests from the raids, the official said. Telephone numbers taken from Mohammed's mobile phone are being tracked. The phone contained numbers inside and outside Pakistan. "The people he contacted in Pakistan have naturally been put under surveillance and we suspect the American agencies are doing the same," the official said. Since Mohammed's arrest, joint Pakistani and U.S. forces have been searching for bin Laden and his son, Saad, along the 350-mile stretch of border from the Baluchistan town of Chaman to the Iranian border. Villagers contacted in Dal Bandin said two military aircraft landed at their small airstrip and American forces got off. There was no confirmation from the U.S. or Pakistani military.
Here's hoping they catch something...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 09:31 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  For what it's worth, the Pak Tribune (I know, block of salt) says they supposedly caught somebody "very important" near Shamshi airport.
Posted by: JAB || 03/06/2003 22:46 Comments || Top||


JI-Qaeda links getting hard to overlook
Excerpted from a longer CSM article...
But senior officials here are starting to admit that they are finding growing links between the Jamaat and Al Qaeda terrorists on the run. "All of the activists and terrorists who have been apprehended in recent months have had links to the Jamaat-e-Islami, whether we have arrested them in Lahore or here or Karachi...." says Pakistan's Interior Minister Makhdoom Faisel Saleh Hayat. "They have been harboring them."
We knew that...
Pakistan's religious parties themselves are a reflection of official ties to terrorism here — which Mr. Musharraf insists have been severed since Sept. 11, 2001. Past administrations here nurtured and funded extremists groups both to wreak havoc in Kashmir, the neighboring state which both India and Pakistan claim, and also during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, when the CIA and Britain's MI6 funded the mujahideen to fight a holy war against the communist invaders. Some of that extremism took root here.
"Some" of it? Extremism is to Pakland as oil is to Soddy Arabia...
Though the fundamentalist parties in the past had more success organizing street protests than getting into Parliament, a five-party coalition of Islamic parties, known as the United Front, made stunning gains in last October's election, and now commands the third-largest block in the National Assembly. Jamaat is the largest and most popular party in the group. It had focused most of its attention on Kashmir, not Afghanistan or the Taliban. But yesterday, a spokesman for the party told Reuters that Al Qaeda's third-in-command was "a hero to Islam."
"We wanna be just like him!"
"The Jamaat has never condemned 9/11, and denies that Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization. This is a group that believes 9/11 was carried out by Jews in America," says Ahmed Rashid, a Pakistani author on terror issues. "The really scary thing is that this is also the most moderate Islamic party in Pakistan."
He said "moderate" and "Islamic party" in the same sentence, and he had to pick his lips up. Fell right off...
Members of the coalition have sparked fears they are trying to "Talibanize" Pakistan's frontier states. Among other things, they have moved to ban movie houses, which they deem un-Islamic, and have sent police to raid wedding parties where music was playing. Some have even more direct links to terror. Many Front leaders run religious schools that sent young Pakistanis to fight alongside the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The man who owns the Islamic school where so-called "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh studied, for example, is now a United Front senator. As members of Parliament, these fundamentalist leaders enjoy immunity, though experts say they would have little access to sensitive information about the hunt for terrorists here or the political power to change Mr. Musharraf's policy to support the US war on terror. But government officials still say they are concerned about the pattern of members of these groups harboring terrorist fugitives. "We certainly are," says Interior Minister Hayat. "Any Pakistani should be."
And I don't think most are...
He and other analysts add, however, that they do not believe there is an official policy to support Al Qaeda fugitives by the Jamaat or other United Front members. "Still, it poses a very serious question," says Ismael Khan, a senior columnist with the News newspaper in the Northwest Frontier Province. "The party leadership needs to answer why this is a recurring theme."
No, no! It's certainly not "official policy"! (Nudge. Nudge. Wink. Wink.) I'd venture to say there's no way in hell Qazi or Fazl or Sami or Nourani is going to answer why this is a recurring theme.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 07:38 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Afghan poet slaughtered in NWA
MIRAMSHAH: An Afghan intellectual Maulam Mohammad Raheem was slaughtered and his body cut into pieces in North Waziristan Agency. His body was found some 15 kilometres from Spinwam. Raheem was known for his progressive and democratic views. Local people said that he was taken to the outskirts of Miran Shah at around 4.00 pm on February 24 and slaughtered. Two days later the people of the area with the help of a shepherd found pieces of his body. Family and friends of the deceased said that they had no enmity with any one. However, they believed that he was killed because of his enlightened views. They said he was a poet, writer and intellectual in love with his soil and people.
Sounds like he wasn't devout enough for the locals...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 01:17 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ...or they tried introducing open-mike poetry night.
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg || 03/06/2003 13:23 Comments || Top||

#2  Wait'll they get Karoke. What a bloodbath that'll be.
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/06/2003 13:56 Comments || Top||

#3  This is what stifiling of dissent looks like. Perhaps Amiri Baraka would like to do a tour of North Waziristan?
Posted by: Hermetic || 03/06/2003 14:15 Comments || Top||

#4  Somehow, some time, this stinking PakRathole has got to be cleaned up, and then Afghanistan can make some real progress in getting out of the hole that it is in.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/06/2003 14:47 Comments || Top||

#5  Rest in peace. takes real courage to be a democrat in a place like that. I won't forget.
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/07/2003 7:22 Comments || Top||


Iraq
Iraqi Troops Disguised as US/British
Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has ordered uniforms replicating those worn by U.S. and British troops and will issue them to paramilitary fighters who would attack Iraqi civilians and blame it on Western forces, the U.S. Central Command charged on Thursday. A command spokesman said in a statement that U.S. intelligence had obtained the information, but refused to say how such intelligence was gathered or provide any details... "Saddam intends to issue these uniforms to 'Fedayeen Saddam' troops who would wear them when conducting reprisals against the Iraqi people so that they could pass the atrocities off as the work of the United States and the United Kingdom"... Many members of the organization are in their teens and recruited in areas noted for loyalty to Iraq's president, according to Central Command.
Just more fodder for a war crimes tribunal. I believe we can still shoot them on the spot if we capture them, under the GCs, or hang them.
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 03/06/2003 07:46 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  You're right anyone wearing the wrong uniforms may be shot out of hand.
Posted by: TJ Jackson || 03/06/2003 23:13 Comments || Top||


Charlie Daniels on Celebs against War on Iraq
HOLLYWOOD (Reuters) - They really said it -- notable quotes from the news:

"You people are some of the most disgusting examples of a waste of protoplasm I've ever had the displeasure to hear about."

-- country singer CHARLIE DANIELS, in an open letter to Hollywood celebrities opposed to war with Iraq.


Can't add anything to that
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 07:25 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Think I'm going to mosey off to Amazon and order another Charlie Daniels CD.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/06/2003 22:39 Comments || Top||


U.S. Orders Two Iraqi Diplomats to Leave
The United States has ordered two Iraqi diplomats to leave the country, Iraq's U.N. ambassador said Wednesday. Ambassador Mohammed Al-Douri said the two men were ordered out of the United States because their behavior was in contradiction to their diplomatic status. This is the usual diplomatic language that refers to spying. Al-Douri said the men were informed of the expulsion order Tuesday at 6 p.m. EST and were given 72 hours to leave the United States. "They are the security personnel of the mission, the guards," the ambassador told The Associated Press. "They are living in the basement of the (Iraqi) mission."
"Get the hell out and don't come back..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 06:56 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


UN reports US Marines caught cutting fence between Iraq and Kuwait
UN peacekeepers recently spotted armed US Marines cutting a fence between Kuwait and Iraq, an act reported to the Security Council Thursday as a possible violation of international law.
well the UN doesn't seem too worried about it on the US-Mexico border, now, do they?
UN spokesman Fred Eckhard said peacekeepers monitoring a demilitarized zone set up after the 1991 Gulf War reported "numerous violations," since March 4 "by personnel in civilian clothes in 4x4 vehicles, at least some of whom were armed and identified themselves as US Marines."
In Arabic, English or Urdu?
According to Eckhard, peacekeepers observed three breaches that had been cut in an electric fence that Kuwait erected after Iraqi troops were forced out of the country by a US-led coalition in 1991.
So it was a Kuwaiti fence? Did they complain?
Eckhard said the UN team raised the recent violations with the Kuwaiti government and the UN peacekeeping department then notified the Security Council. He said the breach may violate the Security Council resolution that set up the zone.
Wow, someone is violating UNSC resolutions by cutting Kuwaiti fences? will the belligerance never end? Did the UN guys ever turn around to see what was going on behind them in Iraq? "No, we were only charged with monitoring the US forces — they pose a greater danger to world peace, don'tcha know?"
The United States has amassed more than 300,000 troops in the region in preparation for another possible war with Iraq
Actually it's not "another possible war" - it's finishing the one the Iraqis lost/violated the truce on/Will lose again .
In the meantime, it is pushing council members to adopt a new resolution that would authorize military force, as it did in 1991.
Incorrect again Associated Press, the new resolution would only acknowledge that the Iraqis aren't disarming - the previous 18 resos authorized whacking them
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 07:48 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This is all going to be moot in a week or too. Go ahead, UNise, go tell Kofi all about it and we will send a message of regret and repentence when we get a chance.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/06/2003 19:25 Comments || Top||

#2  If the UN peacekeepers are upset over this, they'll positively have heart-attacks when we drive whole freaking divisions over that fence.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 03/06/2003 20:02 Comments || Top||

#3  It is always easier to beg forgivness than it is to get permission.
Posted by: John || 03/06/2003 21:49 Comments || Top||

#4  Who gives a hoot what the UN has to say? Whats it going to do, write an angry letter to the NY Times?
Posted by: TJ Jackson || 03/06/2003 23:17 Comments || Top||

#5  Always cheat. Always win.
Posted by: Pete Stanley || 03/07/2003 0:19 Comments || Top||


Iraq blows up 2,500 oilfields
this is unconfirmed by anyone else, so might not be true.
TEHRAN, March 6, 2003. /from RIA Novosti correspondent Nikolai Terekhov/. - Iraq has dropped bombs hitting 2,500 oil fields that cover a vast area. According to the IRNA agency, the bombing near Sharjeh resulted in the explosion of an oil refinery near Kirkuk. Some oil-bearing wells were mined with antitank mines. The Iraqi Army units are ditching around near Baghdad and Kirkuk round the clock to resist the US Army.
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/06/2003 07:50 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The number sounds awfully high - I'd think somebody would have noticed by now. I checked IRNA, and couldn't find a corresponding source article. I think Nik might have picked up an older story that they'd mined 2500 or so oil wells.
Posted by: Fred || 03/06/2003 19:58 Comments || Top||


Russia airlifts out remaining nationals
Would-be suicide bombers on Wednesday marched through Baghdad and Iraqi home guards drilled outside Baghdad's National Theatre, as the Russian embassy began to airlift its 700 nationals left in Iraq. The Russian embassy was evacuating nationals over four days starting on Thursday. These included workers constructing an electricity plant at Youssifia south of Baghdad, and oil men drilling near Kirkuk in northern Iraq.
I guess they expect to have four more days.
The announcement appeared to bring down the curtain on Russia's main trade and economic partner in the Middle East. Russian experts say hundreds of Russian companies trade with Iraq, and that nearly half of Iraq's UN oil-for-weapons food deal was sold through Russian companies. Since three months ago, four foreign missions have pulled out of Baghdad. The US interests section closed a month ago, and Turkish diplomats went home last week. Spain withdrew its staff only to find its embassy occupied by Spanish "human shields"
currently vacant
The UN co-ordinator for humanitarian affairs, responsible for feeding Iraq under the oil-for-food programme, says only 500 of the 900 foreign staff on its payroll are at work in Iraq. Russia's Lukoil, signed a $20bn contract in 1997 to drill the West Qurna oilfield. Zarubezhneft was granted a multi-billion dollar concession to develop the bin Umar oilfield. However, Russia's stake in Iraq's oil was cast in doubt in December, after Iraq cancelled Lukoil's contract on the grounds that it had failed to start work on development.
What good was the contract to Sadaam if the Russians wouldn't make anything he could blow up?
The parade of 60 white-clad "martyrdom seekers" during the morning rush hour in the Iraqi capital emphasised the country's desperation in the face of a US attack.
Only 60? If they are like the dedicated human shields, they chose white so they can turn those robes into white flags, pronto.
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/06/2003 11:09 am || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

#1  In regards to the Russians, it's always refreshing to see pragmatism in action.
Posted by: Hiryu || 03/06/2003 10:01 Comments || Top||

#2  Even though the Russians are currently standing with the French and Germans against the war, they surely understand that the U.S. will not allow their appeasement to thwart U.S. policy. The Russians understand that. I'm not so sure about the French.
Posted by: Kamil Zogby || 03/06/2003 13:21 Comments || Top||

#3  The French have been bluffing, the Russians are folding, and Bush is calling. Time to show your hands, gentlemen.........
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/06/2003 21:13 Comments || Top||


Are we fooled by the press?
While we are made believed that the northern front plans are possibly abandoned, the military activity shows things maybe different. There is a possibility of secret agreements between the Turkish government and the US while the whole discussions unleashed in the world media are a big distraction. Why should the US army rent 8 locomotives and 300 transport wagons from the Turkish railways and the freighter ''CEC MERIDIAN'' dock in the port of Iskenderun if the northern front has been abandoned? The hot front page news at some internet sites of Turkish papers quote that unloaded US army equipment has started to leave the port of Iskenderun to be deployed in Mardin (Iraqi border)


At the same time huge convoys of Turkish armoured vehicles left their bases in Urfa to be deployed in Habur (Iraq border). The explanation of all this could be secret agreement of a joint US-Turkish invasion force.
Posted by: Murat || 03/06/2003 10:40 am || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Wow some weird things are going on latest news reports that the US army has rented the Gaziantep city airport and the railroad is being extended from the city Nusaybin to the city of Cizre (Iraqi border) for troops deployments. US officials have started renting houses and depots in the city Silopi.
Posted by: Murat || 03/06/2003 5:36 Comments || Top||

#2  Is the Turkish Army running an end-around their Parliment ?
Posted by: Domingo || 03/06/2003 5:47 Comments || Top||

#3  Interesting, but please provide the source.
Posted by: anonymous || 03/06/2003 6:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Here are the links CNN
And the Turkish newspaper zaman

Almost all Turkish newspapers show in their late minute hotnews the US material movement
Posted by: Murat || 03/06/2003 7:05 Comments || Top||

#5  Harumph!

I told you so.

The conversation went something like this:

Mr. Prime Minister, do you like your job?
OK, then we're clear. The military will support the government as long as the government supports the military.

And in a week or so:
What Americans in Turkey? There are no Americans in Turkey. They are all in Nothern Iraq.
Posted by: Chuck || 03/06/2003 7:26 Comments || Top||

#6  Hate to disappoint you Chuck, but the voting has more the way of a stunt from the ruling Turkish Ak party who wants to have a strong public support in the by elections in the Siirt province (a continuation of the general elections of November 3). Ak party leader Recep Erdogan could due to a court verdict against him not candidate and so has Abdullah Gul from the same party become prime minister instead of him. With the by elections the Ak party tries to gather public support for candidate Erdogan, a voting of the parliament pro deployment of American troops could have spoiled the candidacy of Erdogan since the public opinion is strongly against war. http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=8455

After the march 9 (elections) the new motion to allow US troops will with high probability passed, nothing to do with the military pall, just politics.
Posted by: Murat || 03/06/2003 7:49 Comments || Top||

#7  Chuck, see the real reason of the rejection:
elections
Posted by: Murat || 03/06/2003 8:08 Comments || Top||

#8  Do the math:
2 AFVs per rail car, one round trip per day. How long does it take to transport 4ID to the border?
Posted by: Tom Roberts || 03/06/2003 8:12 Comments || Top||

#9  Murat, you're obviously closer to the situation. All I know is what I read.

The top general meets with the prime minister in private. The Turkish government IMMEDIATELY reverses its stand that there will not be a revote. The general makes a public statement that support US troops incountry. The Speaker of the parliment praises the military for their actions in this matter.

Sure, all politics is local. But Ozkok delivered a message in his private meeting. Why else would the government reverse itself prior to the elections, when they could have continued the same stonewalling rhetoric until your elections were done?

In any event, publicly the US is saying that Turkey is out as an option. This is a maskirovka, a deception, since I believe that we will use the ports of Turkey despite the civil government's position. The military will ensure a swift and quiet move from the coast into Iraq.
Posted by: Chuck || 03/06/2003 8:25 Comments || Top||

#10  Isn't the hold-up about US troops and not the equipment? The equipment is still needed in northern Iraq. Then it's just a matter of getting the troops there somehow. Assuming an assault from the south only, opening of the northern front could be delayed by a week. I think the Kurds will play a big part in the north, if Turkey doesn't help.
Posted by: RW || 03/06/2003 8:28 Comments || Top||

#11  I doubt that this is a deception operation and that we'll suddenly wake up in a few days and find the 4th Infantry Division poised in southern Turkey. Instead, I think this is some lower level operation -- perhaps shipping equipment to the Kurds or prepositioning equipment and supplies for those U.S. forces that do eventually end up in Northern Iraq.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 03/06/2003 10:12 Comments || Top||

#12  I keep hoping it's a diversion, but considering the huge drop in the stock market, it probably wasn't part of the plan. It does seem likely the equipment will get to Iraq - even if our troops never step foot in Turkey. An aside from other article today says (in last sentence) "The pro-establishment daily Milliyet claims that 20,000 Turkish troops have already penetrated the enclave despite fierce opposition from the two main Kurdish factions administering northern Iraq." What exactly does fierce opposition mean? Fierce words or fighting? I'm very curious as to whether this is old news or a dangerous sign of aggression by the Turks.
Posted by: anonymous || 03/06/2003 10:47 Comments || Top||

#13  We may jump off with whatever we have in Turkey/Kurdistan now, maybe just enough to secure an airfield in N. Iraq, then run an airlift op into that airfield for insertion of the main body of troops in the north. Cumbersome, and more dangerous, but probably doable.
Posted by: mojo || 03/06/2003 10:47 Comments || Top||

#14  A few days ago, DEBKA claimed that a few thousand members of the 4th ID were in Turkey already, in civilian clothes. FWIW.
Posted by: Pete Stanley || 03/06/2003 14:38 Comments || Top||

#15  I did note that the vote was about basing troops in Turkey, not about moving troops (and equipment) through Turkey.
Posted by: Kathy K || 03/06/2003 18:39 Comments || Top||

#16  Kathy, many other posters have expressed your point which I think is very valid. It seems as though it has boiled down to the fact that they will not let the troops in. We can fly over, our equipment may be transported to the front and they may even fight with us. But, basing the troops....well, if it saves us 30B - how bad can that be?
Posted by: becky || 03/06/2003 20:09 Comments || Top||


RUSSIA BARGAINS WAR SUPPORT FOR CASH
WHILE vowing to prevent war in Iraq, and warning of global instability and the dangers of regime-change, Russia is quietly pushing for a massive cash windfall that it could claim by bowing to Washington’s will in the Gulf. Igor Ivanov, the Russian foreign minister, joined his German and French counterparts yesterday in saying they will not allow a UN Security Council resolution that "authorises resorting to force" against Iraq. In an interview with a leading Russian newspaper, he had earlier reminded the United States of the bitter taste that regime-change can leave. But while Mr Ivanov warned Washington not to jeopardise the fight against terror or the authority of the UN by launching unilateral action against Iraq, one of his chief deputies worked to soothe US tempers — and, apparently, wring maximum political and financial capital from Russia’s key bargaining position.

A senior US diplomat warned publicly yesterday that "there could be costs attached" to a Russian veto in the UN. Moscow may see opportunities as well. In an interview published in Kommersant newspaper yesterday, Mr Ivanov warned of the perils of trying to "force democratic principles onto an entire people. "The Soviet Union had its own grim history of setting up ‘suitable’ regimes, and we know where that led. Unfortunately such experiments carry a heavy price, most of all to the people one is experimenting upon." Moscow’s ignominious withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989, after desperately trying to prop up its puppet-leader, must have been prominent in his mind. The chaos that engulfed the country led to the rise of Osama bin Laden and the Taleban.

Mr Ivanov’s deputy foreign minister, Georgi Mamedov, however, met the US ambassador to Moscow to "discuss possible ways to bring closer the Russian and US positions in the Security Council on the Iraq question," an official statement said. Mr Mamedov emerged from the "urgent" talks with a list of what Moscow wants from Washington in return for its support, or at least its non-opposition, to war in Iraq. He told reporters that a key treaty reducing stockpiles of strategic nuclear weapons would be placed before the US and Russian legislatures "in the coming weeks", a move which Moscow favours as it cannot pay for the weapons’ safe storage. Mr Mamedov, noting the presence of NASA’s Moscow representative at the meeting, also underlined Russia’s desire for extra US funding for its impoverished space agency. The Russian space programme, once the prize of the Soviet Union, cannot afford to build the extra Soyuz rockets needed to supply the International Space Station while the space shuttle is grounded after the demise of the Columbia. "We are still discussing financing for our launches," he said, denouncing a US law that forbids extra funding for the space agency while Russia continues to help build a nuclear reactor in Iran, part of President George Bush’s "axis of evil". "There is no link here," Mr Mamedov said. "Our ties with Iran involve nothing that breaches our international commitments. Anyway, it is an absolutely different issue, and we cannot conjure up tens of millions of dollars to increase the number of Soyuz launches."

He also said Washington’s recent inclusion of three Chechen rebel groups on its terrorist blacklist should be "only the first step". The foreign ministry said Mr Mamedov and the US Ambassador, Mr Alexander Vershbow, had discussed "more effective joint opposition of international terrorism, including that in the Caucasus". Moscow has been severely piqued by Western criticism of its brutal war in Chechnya, which the Kremlin claims is financed by al-Qaeda-linked radicals.

Across the city, another senior Russian minister was staking a claim for US funds. The atomic energy minister, Alexander Rumyantsev told reporters he would sign an agreement next week to close three nuclear power plants with the capability to produce weapons-grade plutonium. Washington would fund the shut-down to the tune of "hundreds of millions of dollars", he said, adding that over $200 million more was needed to secure Russia’s nuclear reactors against "terrorist acts".

Meanwhile, the latest planeload of Russians flew back to the safety of Moscow from Baghdad yesterday. Many worked in Iraq’s oil industry, where Russian firms have huge contracts to exploit the country’s reserves, the second largest in the world. Moscow is also owed $8 billion by Baghdad, and is now filling its coffers with oil export money earned on a world market driven skywards by the uncertainty over Iraq.

Analysts here say Washington must guarantee the safety of Moscow’s interests in Iraq before Russia will agree to cash in its chips. It will not give them up cheaply. While Mr Ivanov was in London on Tuesday, voicing his opposition to a war to the BBC, President Vladmir Putin welcomed to the Kremlin the president and vice-president of British Petroleum. BP stunned the energy world last month by buying a 50 per cent stake in Russian oil firm TNK for close to £4 billion.
Posted by: ISHMAIL || 03/06/2003 11:20 am || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Semi-OT:

But Salam Pax of Where's Raed is reporting that Uday is in Russia or Belarus. A Russian reader confirms that local news is reporting that the mayor of Baghdad is in Belarus and speculation is he's attempting to secure exile for the regime.

-Vic
Posted by: vicarious || 03/06/2003 4:11 Comments || Top||

#2  More OT. IE doesn't like the underscore in Dear_Raed. Anyone else have this problem ? Any solutions besides dumping IE ? Thanks, Sorry for the OT.
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/06/2003 5:06 Comments || Top||

#3  "The Soviet Union had its own grim history of setting up ‘suitable’ regimes, and we know where that led. Unfortunately such experiments carry a heavy price, most of all to the people one is experimenting upon." Spoken like someone whose who truly doesn't grasp the concept of a democratic government. Clueless! No point of personal reference, I suppose, for a government "of the people". The comment, "force democratic principles onto an entire people" is such an oxymoron as to be humorous. Sad that these guys can't grasp it past the "establishing" phase. We are so blessed in this country.
Posted by: becky || 03/06/2003 5:52 Comments || Top||

#4  Wow - if we can work out an agreement with Russia - Sadaam is gone. These are negotiations where both US and Russia could benefit from a meeting of minds. If it's true that Uday is in Russia then this looks VERY promising on the surface. Just hope Sadaam doesn't cut him a better deal. Maybe now that Russia knows Sadaam WILL be deposed, they are willing to relook at our offers.
Posted by: becky || 03/06/2003 6:13 Comments || Top||

#5  All the talk of bargaining over deals like this is just a soft form of blackmail. If the US gives in, and "rewards" Russia and other states just for doing what they ought to do anyway, this just sets a precident for ridiculous horse-trading in future. It's another nail in the coffin of the UN.

I'd prefer Saddam to go without a war too, but I think the worst possible post-Saddam scenarios rely on there being no coalition forces in Baghdad. You couldn't prevent anarchy, and you couldn't prevent Ba'athist puppets grabbing the reins of power. Saddam living the high life in the lap of one of his sponsor states?! Give me his head or give me the Baghdad War Trials.
Posted by: Bulldog || 03/06/2003 7:06 Comments || Top||

#6  I'm very, very doubtful of this one, since I'm not seeing any confirmation anywhere, but it was pointed out less than an hour ago so it's very fresh... A Refinery Explosion near Kirkuk is being reported by Novosti to be caused by Iraqis sabotaging their oil fields.

It may be Russian news sensationalism, but taken in conjunction with my earlier cite from Raed's, maybe there's something up?

-Vic
Posted by: vicarious || 03/06/2003 7:09 Comments || Top||

#7  Like I said yesterday, you're either with us, against us, or for sale. If this article is true, we know how principled Putin is.
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg || 03/06/2003 8:52 Comments || Top||

#8  my IE 6.02 has no problem with the underscore - try rightclicking and open in new window or update your IE
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 9:00 Comments || Top||

#9  C'mon, folks, talking about russian "principles" is just ludicrous. They've never had any principles other than self-interest, but at least they're honest about it. Putin is an ex-KGB plug-ugly - he's got less than most....
Posted by: mojo || 03/06/2003 10:40 Comments || Top||

#10  Exile is not an option when dealing with Sammy. He has to go, and he has to go the hard route. That's the line, and that's what's gonna happen. We had no intention of leaving the Nazi party machinery intact in WWII, and the same awaits the Ba'athists.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 03/06/2003 12:05 Comments || Top||

#11  I think we are portraying the wrong image. First the Turks we try to buy off and now the Russians want some money.

Instead, I would suggest we portray the US as a pi**ed off, unstable and irrational lot, hell bent on taking care of business after 9/11. If we were perceived in that fashion, the whole of the civilized world would be on our team....not for financial benefit, rather, for fear of retribution if they were not....economic or militarily. If you will remember, the first resolution on Iraq after 9/11 was unanimous because the world recognized that the Americans have had enough and there was going to be hell to pay for an attack on our country. It was the same for Afghanistan...who opposed us? No one. Now we are caught up in the rational abyss of world opinion and debate which only serves to divide our country. The anti-war marches and debate will last longer than the war itself.

As for world opinion, I say the more Bush is PERCEIVED as irrational, the less lip service we will get out of the rest of the world. What he should tell the NKor's is...shoot a missle and we will nuke your capitol and detroy your life as you know it. AS for Bagdad...we should have already been there.
Posted by: Mark || 03/06/2003 15:37 Comments || Top||


Terror Networks
A Market in Missiles for Terror
Portable surface-to-air weapons — SAMs — can be had by buyers legal and illegal. They already have been used to attack commercial flights.
Posted by: kanji || 03/06/2003 11:58 am || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Torture Is Out of Date?
I got this from strategypage, which is ugly, slow-loading, and well worth reading.

March 6, 2003: Every time a major al Qaeda member is captured, the question of torture comes up. It's doubtful that torture, in the classic sense (think lots of pain) would ever be used by American interrogators. In fact, after a century of intense research and experience with all sorts of torture and interrogation, it's become common knowledge that pain based torture is only used when you haven't got skilled interrogators, or when you are dealing with a low level fellow who isn't a true believer and can be quickly motivated by the prospect of some extreme discomfort. What made painful interrogation passé has been the discovery of more subtle methods to make people talk. We can thank the nazis and several generations of communist interrogators for many of these new ideas. Something as simple as sleep deprivation and generally uncomfortable (but not painful) conditions can loosen the tongue of hard cases more easily than hot pokers, electric shock and pulling out their fingernails. Pain is easier to resist than extreme fatigue. It's been discovered in the last century, for example, that going for more than 24 hours causes most people to begin hallucinating and generally losing control of what they say. This is just the sort of state-of-mind a skilled interrogator can exploit.

Even before the end of the Cold War, the CIA has gone to great lengths to obtain details on the new interrogation methods ("brainwashing") that the communists had developed. More details came out once the Soviet Union fell. The bottom line is that torture as most people think of it is now considered old fashioned and primitive. Or, to put it another way, torture is an unreliable art, while modern interrogation methods are a predictable science. Neither is pleasant, but the latter is more legal than the former, and leaves no physical scars.
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/06/2003 10:49 am || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Ok, call me old-fashioned and primitive, but after they're done emptying Khalid's head of any valuable intel, I'd still hope he gets the moustachios, truncheons, pliers, and alligator clip electrodes...oh, and pork rinds
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 11:53 Comments || Top||

#2  I seem to remember an article claiming that during MK ULTRA the most effective interrogation drug the CIA found was giving the subject a cigarette that was half marijuana. They never even knew anything was amiss. (Half an hour later you put a bag of Doritos just at the edge of their sight...)
Posted by: Hermetic || 03/06/2003 14:35 Comments || Top||

#3  Send him to Ft.Levinworth(Military prison)and put them in general population.
Posted by: raptor || 03/07/2003 8:50 Comments || Top||


Kalid recently used messengers to communicate with Bin Laden
Now in US custody at Bagram Air Base, "Khalid Shaikh Mohammed admitted he was in contact with Osama bin Laden," as recently as the past few weeks, a Pakistani intelligence officer said. "The contacts were through messengers - but he insisted that he was not aware of (bin Laden's) whereabouts."
Have you, like, seen him recently, Khalid?
This would tend to contradict the "Koranathon"-"ain't sayin' nuttin'" story, below...
Khalid's last refuge was a spacious villa inside a neat walled garden in a tranquil neighbourhood called Westridge, an upscale oasis in the crowded northern city of Rawalpindi. Flanked by doctors' and army officers' residences, it lies between Pakistan's sprawling military headquarters and a local office of its secretive intelligence wing ISI.
Much nicer than his new digs - and heh, heh, I still suspect much more roomy and spacious than Bin Laden's new digs.
Storming with Kalashnikovs, flashbulbs and shouts were two dozen US and Pakistani intelligence commandos. The raiders [also] picked up Mustafa Ahmed al Hawsawi, a wanted Saudi terrorist who wired money to the hijackers; the "slow" Pakistani son of a local Islamic party leader; and a treasure trove of handwritten and electronic al-Qaeda data. Khalid was caught napping.
Lucky for him, since he hasn't had a chance to get caught up lately.
The man who led US and Pakistani operatives [to him] was an Egyptian nabbed on February 13 in the harsh southwest city of Quetta. US officials believe the Egyptian Muhamad Asad Abdel Rahman, is the son of blind cleric Omar Abdul Rahman, who was convicted of plotting to blow up the UN's in 1995. Khalid was one step ahead of the raiders when they stormed the Egyptians' hideout. Email correspondence and satellite phone calls from Khalid to Rahman helped CIA and FBI communications experts trace him to somewhere in the Islamabad-Rawalpindi region. Another phone call by Khalid on his satellite phone helped pinpoint him to leafy Westridge.

Khalid was shifted between three separate safe houses in Rawalpindi during three days of interrogation in Pakistan before being flown to Bagram. A senior intelligence official confirmed Bagram as the destination, although Bagram spokesman Colonel Roger King would only say: "I can tell you that ... people will come to this location before going somewhere else."
Posted by: Becky || 03/06/2003 11:06 am || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Khalid was caught napping. Lucky for him, since he hasn't had a chance to get caught up lately."

LOL! That's cruel, Becky -- very cruel. Our enemies should dread the inevitable day when we have all-female interrogation teams.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 03/06/2003 10:20 Comments || Top||


HE’LL SPILL HIS GUTS, OR ELSE
A CIA team will use "all appropriate measures" to convince the just-captured mastermind of the 9/11 attacks to talk — including dangling freedom for his two young sons, who are in U.S. custody. Law-enforcement sources told The Post that the CIA has had the 7- and 9-year- old sons of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in custody since September, and plans to use them as leverage to get the No. 3 man in al Qaeda to disclose Osama bin Laden's whereabouts and details of future terror operations. Mohammed, arrested Saturday in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, has undergone three days of questioning by the same team of CIA and FBI agents who have handled other high-profile terror war detainees.
FoxNews this morning said he was doing the canary thing — but of course we're going to say that, even if he chews his tongue off rather than talk...
Sources said the English-speaking Mohammed has refused to cooperate with interrogators — and instead has spent hours in a trance-like state, chanting passages from the Koran. Authorities also fear Mohammed will try to kill himself, and have put him on a 24-hour suicide watch at the military base where he's being held overseas.
It would appear we have conflicting stories on this...
But law-enforcement officials are convinced that he will eventually talk - just as diehard al Qaeda kingpins Abu Zubaydah and Ramzi Binalshibh did under interrogation.

The United States has made it a practice to take some high-profile terror detainees from Pakistan and Afghanistan to Arab countries like Jordan, Egypt and Morocco for interrogation. "We don't kick the s- - - out of them. Some of our friends do, but we don't do that," said one former counterterrorism official. "These guys are unbelievably cocky. They believe God is on their side. So they believe even though they've been captured, ultimately, they're going to prevail."

U.S. officials deny torturing any captives. In Mohammed's case, CIA agents plan to use "all appropriate means," including leveraging freedom for his two young boys. Those boys were taken in the same raid last Sept. 11 in Karachi that netted Binalshibh, as well as other members of his family in Kuwait and Pakistan, sources said. The CIA and FBI interrogation teams will also try to get him to open up with sleep deprivation. "You bring him in a room and start asking questions. You keep him standing. Then you start building rewards. If you cooperate, if you start talking to us, you get to lie down, you get to take a nap," said former CIA counterterrorism officer Larry Johnson.

Johnson said he doubts Mohammed will be able to keep his Koran-athon going very long under that kind of pressure. "Let's look at this guy's life. On one hand, he's this devout Muslim. On the other hand, he's chasing women around the world," Johnson said. Johnson was referring to testimony in a criminal case in the Philippines that Mohammed and his nephew, World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef, acted like playboys.
Posted by: ISHMAIL || 03/06/2003 10:58 am || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  according to 'The War on Sacred Terror'(written by former NSC staffers Daniel Benjamin & Stephen Simon - great book), terrorists on Jihadi missions are supposed to act as playboys, appearing to drink alcohol, and be inappropriate with women as a cover for Islam, so as not to bring Islam into disrepute.

A good leverage stick would be to threaten Khalid with educating his sons in a Jewish school (hee hee), and teaching them critical thinking skills, argument evaluation and skepticism.

Once they get some good western secularism into them, once their brains start working independantly, they'll never be able to become devout learn-by-rote indoctrinated Muslims again.

Threaten Khalid that they will get ham sandwiches every day and that all their teachers will be women none of whom will wear purdah.
Posted by: anon || 03/06/2003 4:07 Comments || Top||

#2  They'll do none of these things. They'll shoot him full of some high-tech pentothal derivative, rape his mind for everything he knows, and dump him, shattered and burned, into some military cell, there to ponder the enormity of his forced betrayal until somebody in authority decides to put him out of his misery, hopefully years from now.
Posted by: jrosevear || 03/06/2003 6:22 Comments || Top||

#3  I think the only thing they have to do is to provide him with a mirror in his cell.
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/06/2003 8:11 Comments || Top||

#4  no chemicals are involved.

anyway as for the mind raping scenerio, pharmeceutically forcing him to talk absolves him of responsibility and thus guilt.

However, the things used "torture lite" will do the trick. I would like to make clear though that torture lite is little different to what we subject our own people during the SERE course. Though, admittedly, that is a motherf*cker of a thing to go through.

When you actually here someone "break" and start talking, especially talib types, they tend to switch languages.

Most of these guys are multilingual, but the moment they give up and are shattered they begin sobbing in their mother's tounge.

it's pretty chilling to watch.

-DS
"the horns hold up the halo."
Posted by: DeviantSaint || 03/06/2003 9:20 Comments || Top||

#5  I agree with DS. If you've ever been through 60+ hours of enforced sleep deprivation, then you'd know what he's talking about. The hallucinations, the sudden mood swings, the feelings of utter hopelessness make a man pretty easy to break. I've seen some break without any outside pressure -- just the sleep deprivation. It's a frightening thing to watch a guy you know and like in an infantile state, crawling on the floor and crying like a baby.

The Soviets tried drugs and found that the conveyor (as it is called in the Gulag Archipelago) was more effective. Solzhenitsyn states that somewhere in the high ninety percent of all prisoners broke after 50-60 hours of sleep deprivation. The remainder were either psychotic already or underwent a psychotic break with reality during the process.
Posted by: 11A5S || 03/06/2003 11:01 Comments || Top||

#6  Many of these tactics have been refined in Fraternity environments during the 1970's as well... until the Dean Wormer's of the world forced the change away from "Hell Week" to "Cupcake group hug sessions"... I was ready for "Greek Jihad" after 3 days and nights of Hell week...
Posted by: capsu78 || 03/06/2003 12:18 Comments || Top||

#7  Capsu78 - sounds familiar - I was an SAE at San Diego State, and during initiation weekend, the only really bad thing that happened to the pledges was sleep deprivation, and that was enough, they were putty
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 14:34 Comments || Top||


Three held over teen lovers' murder
Police in the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh have charged three Muslim men with the murders of two teenage lovers - a Muslim girl and a Hindu boy. The police say the teenagers died when they were attacked with sticks, batons and iron rods. The incident took place at Sarendhi village, about 70 kilometres from Agra, where the Taj Mahal is located. A senior police officer in Agra, VK Maurya, told the BBC that the couple, who belonged to the same village, had been seeing each other for some time. Mr Maurya said their families and other villagers opposed this relationship. "The incident took place on Wednesday night when the girl's three brothers came home and saw the couple together," he said. "The three brothers killed them."
This sort of barbarism is so routine it's actually become tiresome. There's a special place in Hell for people with such teeny-tiny, submicroscopic souls...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 04:26 pm || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Korea
U.S. considering withdrawal from SKor
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Thursday the stationing of U.S. troops near the border with North Korea has become intrusive to South Korea, and said forces could be moved southward or out of South Korea altogether. Rumsfeld said Army Gen. Leon LaPorte, commander of U.S. forces in South Korea, and others are considering ways to realign American forces on the Korea Peninsula. This comes as the United States is engaged in an increasingly tense crisis over North Korea's nuclear ambitions.
You heard read it here first: U.S. forces have been a magic feather to the SKors for years. And if they haven't, we've wasted 50 years and should walk away from it for that reason...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 04:11 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Fred, you should permanently link that "Americans not welcome" photo to this section. Puts everything into context very nicely.
Posted by: RW || 03/06/2003 18:12 Comments || Top||

#2  I like it - Rumsfeld just put NK and SK on notice - the grownups might leave the room, but saying: "DON'T MAKE ME COME BACK UP HERE!"
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 18:34 Comments || Top||

#3  If it wasn't for the fact that good people in SKor, people who have nothing to do with this conflict, would get slaughtered - this would be so easy, we could just leave and let them get their just desserts. The SKor lemmings are no different than the lemmings in our own country - they do not represent anything but a small group of self-hating fools. As much as we'd love to teach them about life's realities, Americans care about more about the good people of Korea - North and South. Oh...what to do?
Posted by: becky || 03/06/2003 20:20 Comments || Top||

#4  What to do? Rumsfeld just focused the So Korean debate - if they truly choose not to defend themselves, why should we? They need to remember why they have a chance to debate. I can understand that it's not pleasant depending on a foreign country for your defense, but kicking us while proclaiming the postive (?) aspects of Kim Jong Il's paradise won't stand. It's time for serious people in SK to decide and LEAD. 37000 Americans should not be the tripwire if it's not welcome or necessary
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 22:18 Comments || Top||

#5  If you want to believe Stratfor, the secret negotiations have begun with Pyongyang.
Posted by: Hiryu || 03/07/2003 9:30 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Bush expected to announce progress in Bin Laden hunt
According to Israel Radio, US President Bush is expected to announce significant progress in the hunt for arch-terrorist Osama Bin Laden. Media reports worldwide carried rumors that Bush was expected to announce Bin Laden's capture, but White House Spokesman, Ari Fleischer, was quoted as saying that President Bush was not going to announce that the terrorist had been captured. Bush is expected to give a speech from the White House at 03:00 Israel time. An intelligence official in Islamabad, Pakistan, said that US and Pakistani intelligence agencies are tightening the noose around Bin Laden's hideout, which is believed to be in the Baluchistan province of Pakistan on the border with Iran.
I'm not holding my breath on this one. The noose was tightening around him at Tora Bora, too, and he slipped out to a friendly reception in Pakland...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 04:04 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Whatcha bet he ends up in Iran? The more interesting question is whether the Iranians, who have no more control over their borders and country than Pak land, will launch a massive manhunt or face the possible wrath of the US? Iran is one of the countries in the axis of evil and the next closest country to Iraq. While we have the troops there....hey?
Posted by: Mark || 03/06/2003 16:32 Comments || Top||

#2  Please...the only way that bin Laden is not worm food is if he has secretly been in custody for the last year as we use him to extract information. Logic and common sense dictates that this man could never have laid so low. He loves the limelight and the glory. He is either dead - or he will be produced when it suits our purpose. The End.
Posted by: becky || 03/06/2003 20:29 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Yasser names Mahmoud Abbas as prime minister
Palestinian Authority Chairman-for-Life Yasser Arafat has decided to appoint the PLO's second-in-command, Mahmoud Abbas, as prime minister of the PA. The Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, Ahmed Qurei, announced Thursday night that Arafat offered the job to Abbas, who is also known as Abu Mazen. A senior Palestinian official in Ramallah confirmed that Abbas was offered the job. He said Arafat's offer to Abbas followed a series of consultations with several Palestinian officials, including Fatah activists. Arafat has come under pressure from Fatah leaders in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to appoint Abbas to the top job. Abbas, 68, enjoys the support of the majority of Palestinian officials and Fatah activists. His appointment is expected to be endorsed by the Palestinian Legislative Council, which is expected to hold a special session in Ramallah next week.

Israel has agreed to allow most of the 84 members of the PLC to attend the session. At least 20 legislators from the Gaza Strip have been denied permission to travel to Ramallah because of their involvement in terror activities. The PLO's central council is also expected to hold a meeting in Ramallah on Saturday to discuss the appointment of a prime minister for the PA. The PLO sesion is expected to discuss the powers of the prime minister and the amendment of the PA's Basic Law so it would include the position of premier.

Earlier, Palestinian Cabinet Secretary-General Ahmed Abdel Rahman said that the new prime minister should be elected from within the ranks of the Fatah movement. He said all the names that are being mentioned in the Israeli and foreign media as candidates for the job are based on speculation only. "The most suitable candidate for the job should be a member of Fatah," Abdel Rahman explained. "He should work towards establishing a Palestinian state, which is the goal of Fatah, which represents all forms of Palestinian struggle."

Abdel Rahman's remarks came in response to rumors according to which Arafat has decided to appoint Munib al Masri, a millionaire from Nablus, as prime minister. Masri said Thursday that he has never received such an offer from anyone in the Palestinian Authority.
Couldn't afford it, huh?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 03:58 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The poor bastard...
Posted by: Ptah || 03/06/2003 20:47 Comments || Top||


Iran
Hundred Iranian youths arrested by blue-noses for "pagan" festival
Iranian authorities arrested more than 100 young people celebrating the traditional festival of fire after clashes that left many injured and damaged property, the Entekhab said Thursday. The newspaper cited police Colonel Ali Bayat saying that 24 young people were hurt Tuesday night by home-made fireworks lit for the "chaharshanbeh suri" festival, which dates back to the ancient Persian Zoroastrian times. Iran's clergy have prohibited these celebrations for being pagan and inappropriate for an Islamic society, but they are now tolerated to some extent by the authorities.
If it ain't Islamic, it must be pagan, whether Zoroastrians are "people of the book" or not, and for that matter whether the festival is Persian or Zoroastrian...
The festival, which involves jumping over bonfires lit in the street, usually takes place on the last Tuesday before the Iranian new year on March. Its date was advanced this year so as not to clash with the Shiite mourning period for the death of Imam Hussein, son of the prophet Mohamed's son-in-law Ali.
So they changed the date on somebody else's primitive festival so it wouldn't clash with their primitive festival. This Master Religion stuff is really convenient, if you're a theocrat...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 02:46 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  chaharshanbeh suri, eh?

Sounds like Burning Man or a Phish concert to me.
Posted by: Anne Elk || 03/06/2003 15:10 Comments || Top||

#2  Or an Aggies homecoming...
Posted by: Fred || 03/06/2003 15:12 Comments || Top||

#3  LOL!!!! GOOD ONE FRED!!!!
Posted by: JDR || 03/06/2003 15:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Aren't the Iraqis getting warmed up for their own "chaharshanbeh suri" festival? over past the Iranian SW horizon, I believe.....
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/06/2003 15:33 Comments || Top||


Liberal views on veil gains Iranian cleric 7 years in jail
An Iranian court has upheld on appeal a seven-year sentence against a reformist cleric, initially sentenced to death for saying women should be free to decide whether to wear a veil, judicial sources said. Hojatoleslam Hassan Yussefi Eshkevari made his views known on the veil in Berlin in April 2000 during a conference on Islamic reforms, provoking a crisis between moderate President Khatami and hardline politicians. Eshkevari's death sentence was never confirmed officially, but his family said it was handed down by a special tribunal that handles crimes by members of the clergy. News of the sentence sparked local and international protests. Last autumn, Eshkevari's sentence was commuted to seven years, of which four were for his views on the veil, one for taking part in the conference and two for spreading "lies" on the murder of several intellectuals in 1998 implicating members of the intelligence ministry. He was also prohibited from wearing the traditional Iranian clerical robes.
It's probably just as well he doesn't wear the traditional Iranian clerical robes. He could be swept up by accident with the rest of them when the Medes and Persians decide to hang all the theocrats... One day it'll come, and they'll wonder why they waited so long.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 01:56 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  men like him aare the most potent weapon in the war on fundy islam. we need them, we need to support them at every turn
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/07/2003 7:27 Comments || Top||

#2  men like him aare the most potent weapon in the war on fundy islam. we need them, we need to support them at every turn
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/07/2003 7:27 Comments || Top||


Middle East
No War Before This Weekend For Sure
One thing is certain: The war on Iraq won’t start before this weekend. The “embed” journalists have not been issued their gas masks, and the Pentagon has told its US headquarters in Kuwait that embedding journalists is a “no go” until the gas masks arrive. The masks are due to arrive here by the end of the week. If anything happened, all these soon-to-be-embedded journalists would miss it. The gas masks are stuck back in North Carolina. Apparently delayed due to bad weather, they are to get here by Friday. Here at the Kuwait Hilton, the journalists’ measurements for protective NBC (nuclear, biological, or chemical) suits have been taken, and military-issued IDs with photo are waiting. But the journalists will get nothing until it’s official, and it’s not official until they get their masks.
Posted by: Tom || 03/06/2003 03:39 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Can the Arab News be trusted?

Later in that article they "quote" a US soldier who doesn't like Bush's “cowboy gung-ho attitude.”
Posted by: growler || 03/06/2003 14:14 Comments || Top||

#2  Sounds like a great excuse to start the war without having journalists embedded. And just where would they be embedded for air strikes?

Or maybe its just the Arab News's masks that haven't arrived yet...
Posted by: Hermetic || 03/06/2003 14:31 Comments || Top||

#3  doonesbury had a cute comic strip recently where a grunt had asked sargeant BD for permission to enbed Ashley Bansfield
Posted by: mhw || 03/06/2003 15:42 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm a bit irritated to see that the title is now "No War Before..." instead of the "War Before This Weekend For Sure" that I had intended. Fred, are you messin' with my humor, or did I mess up?
Posted by: Tom || 03/06/2003 15:58 Comments || Top||

#5  While I have my doubts that the Arab News can be trusted, it amuses me to no end. To actually think that journalist gas masks would hold up the war! General to GWB: "Sorry, can't start now -- the journalists have no gas masks!"

I'm sure there are plenty of soldiers that don't like Bush's attitude. So what? Who expects 300,000 Americans to agree on anything. Only Saddam can get 100% in the polls.
Posted by: Tom || 03/06/2003 14:58 Comments || Top||

#6  Utter rubbish.

Gas masks come in 3 or 4 different sizes, so it's a matter of walking down to the local supply depot. Ditto for the CBR suits: small, medium, large and elephant.

Hell, my reserve center has a stock of gas masks and suits!

As far as the military ID photos, the last time I was in Newport, RI, it took exactly 6 minutes for me to get issued a new ID card. Granted all of my info is already in DEERS, but I believe that all of the journalists who are going to be allowed to be with the troops have already been prescreened.

To repeat, this article is nonsense, written by someone who has no understanding of the US military.
Posted by: Dreadnought || 03/06/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||

#7  read the article again, the snag is not the time for measurements or even obtaining the id cards. they aren't going to release the gear to them until the masks get in from CONUS. This is a shipping problem, and I know there were plenty of times we couldn't get something dropped out to us, there was plenty of it in the rear, but getting it out to where we are was a different matter all together.

maybe even the media doesn't have enough pull to arrange airflow in the midst of wether problems.

It happens.

-DS
"the horns hold up the halo."
Posted by: DeviantSaint || 03/06/2003 16:34 Comments || Top||

#8  DS

There are huge supply depots all over the Middle East op area. Since you were in the service you know that in a situation like this, there is a ton of stuff in these depots and no one is waiting for shipments of gas masks or canisters or suits or MREs from the States.

The journalists that are part of the Pentagon's pool are issued gear. Those who aren't in the pool and want to hang out in Kuwait are on their own.

No war is being held up because of a bunch of scribblers.
Posted by: Dreadnought || 03/06/2003 19:32 Comments || Top||


Jabaliya Refugee Camp Whacked
As part of the ongoing war against terror and its infrastructures in the Gaza Strip, IDF Infantry, Armor and Special Engineering forces, assisted by combat helicopters, operated throughout the Jabaliya refugee camp situated in the northern Gaza Strip. During the operation, IDF forces arrested Abed Al Karim Ziada, a senior Hamas terrorist, and demolished his house. IDF forces uncovered a Kalashnikov rifle, grenades, an explosive belt, two bombs weighing 20 kg each, explosive devices, two anti-tank launchers, three anti-tank missiles and five mortar launchers in searches conducted inside the house before it was demolished.
I take it he's not a smoker, huh?
In addition IDF forces demolished another building which was used as a weapon production lab. Inside the building IDF forces uncovered four lathes used to manufacture weapons.
"Well, y'know, some people make model boats, or model airplanes, right? Well, I make antitank mines..."
Massive gunfire was opened toward the IDF forces. In addition grenades were thrown toward the forces, anti-tank missiles were launched at them and over ten bombs were detonated near them. The IDF forces returned fire toward the source of the shooting and identified strikes in some of the armed terrorists. It should be noted that throughout the operation Palestinian ambulances were
allowed full access to the area.
I guess they needed lots of them. FoxNews said there were 11 deaders, with the Paleos claiming a tank had fired at a crowd of civilians, most of them puppies, kittens and baby ducks...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 03/06/2003 01:42 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Seen a thing that said Paleos were standing around watching firefighters work.Like the Somalis
it's pretty stupid to run toward a gun battle.
Posted by: raptor || 03/07/2003 8:39 Comments || Top||


Home Front
FBI Probes U.S. Terror Suspects
The capture of Al Qaeda leader Mohammed yields names of at least 12 men. Officials fear they could be planning retaliatory attacks.
Dire Revenge® is SOP, isn't it?
The FBI has launched intensive investigations into at least 12 suspected terrorists living in the United States whose names were found in the possession of top Al Qaeda leader Khalid Shaikh Mohammed after his arrest five days ago, federal law enforcement officials said Wednesday. Officials said they were particularly concerned that operatives connected to Mohammed could be in the country planning terrorist attacks that the FBI believes may be imminent. Such operatives may just be awaiting a "go" signal, or the onset of war with Iraq, the officials said.
Posted by: kanji || 03/06/2003 03:41 pm || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Pittsburgh--Support Our Troops rally this Saturday
Saturday, 11:30 a.m. at Point State Park.

My apologies if this is too OT--
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg || 03/06/2003 10:37 am || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hi, I will not be able to be there because of silly problems. Would you please carry one flag or sign more for me? Thank You, very much.
Posted by: Poitiers || 03/06/2003 9:55 Comments || Top||

#2  Thanks for bumping this up top, Fred! I don't want to make OT posts; we're just trying to get the word out!

Poitiers--sure thing! Wish you could join us, though!
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg || 03/06/2003 11:24 Comments || Top||

#3  Great Idea. I'm out here in California (Yes.. home of Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein and the 9th "Circus" court of appeals). I'm also a staunch supporter of our President and the military. Please carry your flag for me as well!


"Peace through superior firepower"
Posted by: Tom || 03/06/2003 11:48 Comments || Top||

#4  http://www.victoryvillage.com/STINKS/Fnews.htm

WHO: California Young Americans for Freedom (Cal-YAF)
CONTACT: Chad Morgan 714-658-2190 cmorgan@calyaf.com
WHAT: Demonstration and Press Conference announcing boycott of French Products.Highlighted by Dumping French wine in the gutter.

WHEN: Friday, March 7, 2003 at 12:00 Noon
Press Conference at 1:00 PM

WHERE: French Consulate in Los Angeles
10990 Wilshire Boulevard This is at the corner of Wilshire and Veteran, just east of the 405.The consulate is across the street from the Federal Building.

WHY: On March 7, the US will introduce yet another resolution to the U.N. This should be the last chance for France and the U.N. to join forces with us in defeating tyranny. We want to show France that the United States people do not need permission from them nor from the U.N. to protect ourselves fromthe threats of nuclear and biological weapons.France has been given every opportunity to prove that they are with us.Instead, they have shown and again that they are against us. We are going to be dumping their wine in the gutter to initiate a boycott against French products and show the French diplomats at the consulate where their wine really belongs.

NOTES: Please note the new time, 12:00 noon.
If you are planning the demonstration, please RSVP by sending email to cmorgan@calyaf.com.
Please bring a bottle (or bottles) of French wine to dump in the gutter. We will not be able to provide a bottle for everyone attending. Lets have full participation in the dumping so that we can show the French an entire block
of people dumping their precious wine down the drain. If you need ideas on where to find cheap French wine, please call 714-658-2190.

The UCLA Bruin Republicans have joined us as an event Co-Sponsor.
The New York YAF chapter has announced that they will join us in front of the French Consulate in New York at 1:00 Eastern Time. If you have any questions regarding the New York demonstration, contact newyorkyaf@aol.com
If you need transportation to the demonstration, we can try and put you in contact with someone in your area who is driving up to Los Angeles. We have caravans coming from San Diego, Orange County, the Inland Empire, Santa
Barbara, as well as all parts of Los Angeles County.
Posted by: growler || 03/06/2003 13:48 Comments || Top||

#5  If you can't support any of these patriotic get-togethers, consider sending a care package via the USO. (Link care of USS Clueless). $25.00 sends a care package to one of our deployed troops that can pass security.
Posted by: Ptah || 03/06/2003 17:05 Comments || Top||


Korea
U.S. urged to accept DPRK’s proposal for concluding non-aggression treaty
Rodong Sinmun today in a signed commentary accuses the United States of describing the DPRK's proposal for concluding a non-aggression treaty as "brinkmanship tactics" to get a sort of "reward" from it.
It goes on:
The DPRK's proposal for concluding a non-aggression treaty with the U.S. is aimed to provide a legal binding force to keep the U.S. from posing a nuclear threat to the DPRK and it has nothing in common with "brinkmanship tactics."
Do I see a theme here?
The DPRK is bored with hypocritical U.S. promises devoid of any legal binding force.
They can't be that bored if they want to deal...
In the 1990s the then U.S. President sent a message of assurances to the DPRK.
As part of our demands, we want him to be president again...
But later, the U.S. threw it away like a pair of old shoes.
...and we built a couple of nukes.
Moreover, the Bush administration says that it has no intention to invade the DPRK but its words do not match with its deeds. It turned down the DPRK's proposal for holding dialogues, while paying lip-service to the "peaceful settlement of the nuclear issue," and it said that it is not in a position to legally assure the DPRK of non-aggression despite its assertion that it would not invade the DPRK by force of arms. No matter how many security assurances that lack any legal binding force the Bush administration may give to the DPRK, it is not interested in them at all.
We need this on paper so we can officially ignore it when it suits our purposes.
That's why the DPRK calls for concluding a non-aggression treaty with a legal binding force to be approved by U.S. Congress. What we need is a legal guarantee to be provided by a treaty as valid as international law. The U.S. should not flee from its heavy responsibility for spawning the nuclear crisis on the Korean Peninsula but promptly opt for direct talks with the DPRK to conclude a non-aggression treaty with the DPRK, the most aboveboard and reasonable proposal to provide the best solution to the pending issues between the two countries.
Actually, this is pretty tame. But, damn, do they want to deal...
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/06/2003 10:42 am || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  They want the coin, and the non-aggression simply allows them to build up their blackmail arsenal. We will eventually have to deal with this in a military way it appears- negotiating with them is a dead end. They need the stick more than a carrot. BTW - anyone sending a RC-135 off their coast without fighter escort and orders to defend at all costs should be in Leavenworth
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 9:04 Comments || Top||

#2  Frank has the point about the unescorted RC-135. Remember in 1968 when the Pueblo got the same treatment. And, as with the recent incident with China, I hope that we have learned our lesson. BTW, we ought to sink the Pueblo and deny the NKors the means of using her as a floating propaganda museum.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/06/2003 9:37 Comments || Top||

#3  Let's discuss the shape of the table for a couple of months. I kinda like round, but there are those who favor various square/rectangular shapes...
Posted by: mojo || 03/06/2003 10:49 Comments || Top||

#4  The NKor's didnt abide by the deal cut with Clinton in '93, why should we believe they would abide by a "legally binding non-aggression treaty". legally binding on whom? The truth of the matter is that the whole world would hold the US verbatim to any such "treaty" while cowardly refusing to insist on and enforce strict compliance by the NKor's. In essence, we would be in the same boat we are in now with Iraq where the trembling three want to give peace a chance.
Posted by: Mark || 03/06/2003 12:59 Comments || Top||

#5  I agree, Mark. The NKors have lost all their credibility when they revealed they've been violating the accords they signed for years now. They feel they're not bound to anything.

I feel, though, that this strategy now of doing nothing vis a vis North Korea will work. I believe Cold War containment will give them time to collapse under their own rotten system, just like the Soviets.
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg || 03/06/2003 13:08 Comments || Top||

#6  I believe you are right Dar...wait them out like we did the Russians. The problem as I see it however is that the NKor's are alot more desperate now than the Soviets ever were and the "Great Leader" has had 50 years to brainwash his people on the "evils" of the US. As I see it, the NKor's are fanatical and may in fact start a conflict before the regime does in fact collapse.
Posted by: Mark || 03/06/2003 13:22 Comments || Top||

#7  Mark--I don't know how much more fanatic the NKors are than what we've faced before. IMHO, this ranks below the Cuban Missile Crisis yet above Khrushchev's "We will bury you!" shoe-banging incident.

Wonder if anyone thought to preserve that shoe--it'd look great in the Reagan Library!

Anyone got any good pointers to sources on how the UN responded to these, or the invasions of Hungary in '56 and Czechoslovakia in '68? I wonder if any precedents were set there...
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg || 03/06/2003 14:13 Comments || Top||

#8  Dar, I think Mark's right - we DO need to delay the negotiations to give them time to eat the big one, however they don't behave rationally and the escalating provocations will be ugly - I think next time they'll kill some Americans, no SKors, so they can still play to the SK appeasement crowd...Trouble with the NK's is it's like debating a Tourette's Syndrome sufferer... anything could happen
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 14:27 Comments || Top||

#9  I do not know if Rumsfeldt will do it (pulling out the troops) but it is one hell of a card to hold in one's hand. There are a number of countries that have been biting our hand while we feed them. We will see how they react as he brings up the subject from time to time. Actually it would be best if we had an orderly phase-out. Countries like SK and Germany need to ante up for their own protection, like we do. We do not have the economic luxury of doing so now.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/06/2003 15:55 Comments || Top||

#10  ... and the Nimitz went where?
Posted by: Anonymous || 03/06/2003 16:11 Comments || Top||

#11  I just read an interesting (though not surprising)comment Rumsfeld has made toward our troops in SKor....he is talking of pulling them out...Germany as well. If you think about it, that would be a great move. It would snub SKor for the anti American mood in that country and Germany for their stance on Iraq.

Further, and perhaps more importantly, with our troops gone from SKor we would have them out of harms way for a retaliatory strike should we elect to bomb NKor's reactors. The NKor's may (and I stress that lightly) be deterred from attacking SKor or Japan in retaliation for fear of their reprisal. That would leave their only option as a direct nuclear strike on the US which they may or may not have the capability to do.

I have read articles where we have successfully tested intercepts of ICBM's using our Aegis class destroyers and cruisers which I believ are parked off the NKor coast right now. Did any of you guys notice that the Marine detachment that left yesterday did not have desert camos nor were their vehicles paint in desert cammo?? INTERESTING!!
Posted by: Mark || 03/06/2003 14:48 Comments || Top||

#12  well, when it left San Diego Port, it went west, that's all I can say for sure ;-)
Posted by: Frank G || 03/06/2003 16:52 Comments || Top||

#13  Khrushchev's "We will bury you!" shoe

You might try Khrushchev's son, He lives in New Hampshire as a naturalized US citizen.
Posted by: Frank Martin || 03/06/2003 21:09 Comments || Top||


Middle East
We need US army, says Turkey’s military chief
Turkey's armed forces yesterday came out in favour of deploying thousands of US combat troops in the country for a second front against Iraq. Hilmi Ozkok, the chief of general staff, said the motion that was narrowly defeated by the parliament on Saturday was in Turkey's best interests. His unexpected remarks have boosted hopes within the Bush administration that the government will resubmit the Bill within the coming days and that with the generals' support it will be cleared. Gen Ozkok added that a second front in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq would speed up victory and minimise casualties. "The Turkish armed forces' view is the same as the government's," he said. "The war would be shorter, there would be less pain . . . fewer will die."
Awww sweet, less pain
He added that economic aid from the United States in exchange for Turkish support would help mitigate the effects of a war with Turkey's Arab neighbour.
Awww sweet, piles of cash
The Turkish military, which has seized power three times in the past four decades, remains hugely influential and few politicians dare go against its wishes.
But they're not in charge of the country. They don't rule, they just try and make sure it's ruled according to Hoyle, or at least Kemal...
Dozens of US Navy ships are anchored off Turkey's Mediterranean coast waiting to unload tons of equipment and thousands of soldiers who are set to transit through Turkey's largely Kurdish south-eastern provinces into Iraqi Kurdistan. The Bush administration, angered by Saturday's vote, has been threatening to cut Turkey out of its war plans and to create what Western diplomats here call a "northern front line" by parachuting troops into northern Iraq. Those warnings, coupled with the shelving of a $6 billion (£3.9 billion) American aid package, appear to have forced Turkey to rethink its strategy. The US has also indicated that it would oppose any unilateral moves by the Turkish military to enter northern Iraq in the absence of a deployment deal. The pro-establishment daily Milliyet claims that 20,000 Turkish troops have already penetrated the enclave despite fierce opposition from the two main Kurdish factions administering northern Iraq.
Posted by: Bulldog || 03/06/2003 11:12 am || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  That was a febrile headline by the Tele. Turkey doesn't need the US Army, it's foreign position might be hurt by not supporting a US alliance.
Posted by: Tom Roberts || 03/06/2003 8:22 Comments || Top||



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Thu 2003-03-06
  Russia airlifts out remaining nationals
Wed 2003-03-05
  Human shields stuck in Beirut without bus fare
Tue 2003-03-04
  US hits roadblock in push to war
Mon 2003-03-03
  Human shields catch the bus for home
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Fri 2003-02-28
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Thu 2003-02-27
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