The French don't blink at the topless look, but an ad campaign for thong underwear geared toward young people proved too risque even here.
"Mon Dieu! Lookidat, Maurice!"
"Oooh! Much too risquÚ for the likes o' me, Henri!"
The campaign for Sloggi thongs drew fire from the humorless consumers and hacks wanting their names in the papers elected officials who said posters displayed around the country were degrading to women.
"Florette, those underwear are degrading! Take them off now!"
"Oooh! Henri! You silver-tongued devil, you!"
"Women are sick of being treated like merchandise," said lawmaker Segolene Royal, who was family affairs minister in the previous Socialist government. "And we're fed up with children⢠being confronted with images that hit them and shock them in the middle of the street."
"Ah, the poor children™! Bombarded with pictures of underwear and titties! Something must be done!"
The company began taking down the posters on Wednesday and all were gone by Thursday night. However, Marie-Laure Nordmann, spokeswoman for the Swiss-based Triumph International, which owns Sloggi, said the company did not cede to the complaints. Rather, she said, the week-long publicity campaign was simply over.
"Florette! I just had an anticlimax!"
"Poor Henri! Come back to bed, dear!"
One poster showed a rear view of two young women, wearing only the thongs and red boxing gloves, facing off against a man in skin-tight skivvies. Another showed three women, dressed in Sloggi thongs, dancing like strippers around a pole.
Whoopdee doo. That's it? I guess you hadda be there...
"That women are nude poses no problem for us in France," said Joseph Besnainou, director general of the Publicity Verification Office. Not everyone agrees with Sloggi's detractors, according to Nordmann, the Triumph International spokeswoman. "There are women of a certain age who called us saying they were thrilled because they had worn Sloggis for 25 years and now they can offer them to their grandchildren," she told France-2 television.
My eyes! My eyes!
However, in Switzerland, Sloggi posters were ripped and graffiti scrawled across them during the spring and summer ad campaign. Terre des Femmes, a women's rights group, filed a complaint with the Swiss advertising standards agency about the ads.
I think I'll go lie down for the rest of the afternoon. This teapot is entirely too tempestuous...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
10/10/2003 16:59 ||
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Care to wager a guess on which sector the complaints are coming from?
EFL This may be too far off topic, but USS Clueless had a good explantion of gerrymandering that included some election theory ideas that I found interesting. There is more for those who dare remain awake after the sample.
Stardate 20031008.2258
(Captainâs log): A reader sends this (but no first name, alas):
Sorry to present a topic out of school, but you are the only site I read that may attack the problem. My question is "How can gerrymandered legislative districts cause an entire state to fall in one camp or the other". It would seem that people can vote any way they like, and registration for party doesnât guarantee a vote for the party candidate. I could agree that restricted areas such as parts (neighborhoods) of a city could be gerrymandered. However whole states, no. What do you think?
I guess it depends on what you mean by "the whole state". It would not directly affect any election which was held state-wide, such as for governor. But there are other ways it can matter, and it can matter a whole lot.
It has to do with the fact that our system is hierarchical and implements "winner take all". What that means is that at each level of hierarchy, the votes and influence of many voters are discarded completely when influencing the next level up.
Suppose that we have a state with five districts for state legislators. The districts are gerrymandered so that three of the districts have about 55% voters for party A and 45% for party B. The remaining two districts are 100% party B.
Party A would have three legislators but party B would only have 2, and A would be in control. But if you assume that all five districts have the same number of voters, then it turns out that party B actually has twice as many voters overall as party A.
If you arbitrarily assume 100 voters per district, it would mean that party A had 55+55+55+0+0 = 165 voters, while party B had 45+45+45+100+100 = 335 voters. But Party A would still have a legislative majority.
That, in general terms, is how gerrymandering works as it was practiced originally. You try to create a few districts which are extremely heavily dominated by your opposition, while creating a lot more where you expect your own party to have a small but sufficient majority. What that does is to dilute the value of the other sideâs voters. Your 55 voters in one district have the same influence as 100 of theirs in another, while their 45 voters in your district have no direct influence at all.
The remainder of the post includes an example of geremandering in Mass from the early 1800âs.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 4:16:57 PM ||
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DenBeste is a great writer but I think he needs to be more concise. Half of what he writes would be better off as footnotes that could be read afterwards of further convincing is required, thus shortening the basic thesis.
#2
Yank,
I agree about his style. My attention span fits this catagory more than his writing does. For a tour-de-force in the oddities of our political system his post is pretty good.
Do you think that footnotes will be replaced by links in future style sheets?
Do you think that some day the Sunni members of the Iraqi Congress will flee to Jordan to prevent a quorum on a Shiite redistricting plan?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 19:17 Comments ||
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EFL hattip to WND
A robber who hit two Miami banks Wednesday blamed his crimes on homely looks and body odor, police said. But it was sore feet that did him in. I think the county has a luxirious spa cell waiting for you.
After shuffling out of his second bank heist in 20 minutes, police said Daniel Gallagher stopped to rest his weary soles. So he plopped down on a grassy swale â within sight of a police officer quizzing a witness. If you must hide in plain sight, at least change your shirt or something - hasnât this guy seen Cops.
ââHis feet were tired,ââ said Detective Delrish Moss, a police spokesman. ``Heâs a bank robber. I didnât say he was brilliant.ââ Gallagherâs short-lived career as a holdup man began about 10:30 a.m., when he walked seven blocks from his apartment at 1210 NE First Ave. to the Citibank at 1790 Biscayne Blvd. Police say Gallagher threatened to detonate a bomb unless the teller handed over $100. His ââexplosive,ââ police later learned: a cold can of Miller beer in a bag. The bomb threat might have been accurate depending on his diet. He probably breakfasted on three microwaved nachos from the 7-11.
The teller handed over the cash and triggered a silent alarm. before her gag reflex incapcitated her.
ââHeâs leaving as the officers arrive, and figures theyâre busy and wonât notice him,ââ Moss said. He walked down the block to the TotalBank. Same beer can. Another hundred bucks. Looks like he was correct about the police being too busy to prevent stage two of his crime spree.
Gallagher then ambled about 100 feet and sat down, Moss said. Standing outside the Citibank: Officer Rayford Shipman, asking a witness for a description. âAnd she looks over and says, `There he his!â ââ Moss said. Shipman walked up to Gallagher and placed him in custody. cuffing him and making him sit in the back of his buddyâs car.
At headquarters, Gallagher revealed his motive. âHe said, `Iâm ugly and I smell bad, so I canât get a job,â ââ Moss said. â `I gotta get money somehow.ââ Heâs the victim.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 11:16:25 AM ||
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He cetainly could have five-fingered some deoderant and mouthwash when he purchased the tall boy.
Come to think of it, he could have gotten $100 out of the gas-station register and saved the wlk to the bank. I'm sure he could have saved a brown bag from yesterday's beer run.
Maybe the food is better in Federal Prison and he didn't want to risk Thursday night beef-a-roni at the county jug.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 19:26 Comments ||
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Africaâs a fun place...
A 28-year-old man accused of stealing a manâs penis through sorcery has been beaten to death in the West African country of Gambia, police say. Well, what did he expect for Johnson theft?
A police spokesman told Reuters on Thursday that Baba Jallow was lynched by about 10 people in the town of Serekunda, some nine miles from the capital Banjul. Baba Jallow... penis snatcher. His parents must be so proud.
Reports of penis snatching are not uncommon in West Africa, with purported victims claiming that alleged sorcerers simply touched them to make their genitals shrink or disappear in order to extort cash in the promise of a cure. Sounds like a variation of the "I got your nose" trick. I canât wait to get the scam letters...
The police spokesman said many men in Serekunda were now afraid to shake hands, and he urged people not to believe reports of "vanishing" genitals. Belief in sorcery is widespread in West Africa. Shake? Hey! Look what I got!
Seven alleged penis snatchers were beaten to death by angry mobs in Ghana in 1997. Doesnât sound like a growth industry. Wait, let me rephrase that..
Posted by: tu3031 ||
10/10/2003 9:32:25 AM ||
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#1
beaten or lynched? let's get this cleared up...
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/10/2003 10:04 Comments ||
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There bas been mass hysteria before caused by disappearing privates in Africa. The fear of loss evidently causes a catastrophic Cassansa effect. Stress, evidently.
#3
The US needs to add this offense to the laws that require neighborhood notification of an offender moving in. If there is a penis-snatcher living in my town, I want to know about it.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 10:39 Comments ||
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Seven alleged penis snatchers were beaten to death by angry mobs in Ghana in 1997.
Were any of them hung?
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
10/10/2003 10:58 Comments ||
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#5
I was told I would go blind, not die, from penis beating. oh well.
I said"Pancreatic,stomach,liver cancer!I donât give a damn,just die bitch!
Posted by: Raptor 2003-10-9 7:37:16 PM "
Fred you responded with"
"Raptor - Once cancer metastasizes itâs killing its host. The "under 10 months" that Steve mentioned isnât a pleasant time for the victim, and the end stage is agonizing, despite the fact that massive amounts of pain killers are required. Dying quickly would be a mercy...
Posted by: Fred 2003-10-9 10:26:36 PM"
Please bear in mind,Fred,I am not angry at your response.
My Father died from stomach cancer.I am well aware of the suffering involved.I stood at the foot of my Dadâs bed and watched him die.
In Yassholeâs case,I just donât give a damn how much he suffers,I just want his ass to die.
Posted by: Raptor ||
10/10/2003 9:20:29 AM ||
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Oh, I don't know. A prolonged period of extreme pain while withering away in an Israeli jail would be very nice. They should capture him, and keep him alive without pain medication for as long as possible. It could be televised for fun.
#2
My mom died of cancer. At the end, no amount of drugs helped her with the pain. By the time she died, my and my older brother were the only ones in the room. The rest of the family had left, one by one, over a sixteen-hour period of time, when they decided they couldn't take it anymore.
I know exactly what I am saying when I wish all of this and more on Arafat.
#3
Been there, done that. Mom was diagnosed with malignant pancreatic cancer that had spread to her liver. She died about eight months after the diagnosis, and in the last month, they were giving her pure morphine, and it didn't do a damn bit of good.
Ed.
Posted by: Ed Becerra ||
10/10/2003 14:18 Comments ||
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Let me just add that in my comments yesterday, in no way would I denigrate any of my patients or any family member of any Rantburger -- indeed, any American. I provided some clinical information (as I'm a doc) that I felt would be useful to our discussion of Yasser's supposed gastric carcinoma.
I might also add that while I'm a doc and am supposed to be humanistic, etc, etc, I draw the line at terrorists. Terrorists should be shot on sight; if we can't our hands on them than I have no objection to their dying a lingering, painful death. And Yasser most assuredly is a grade-AAA terrorist, up to his eyebrows and beyond in murder, assassination, blood, gore and misery. How many millions have suffered and suffer today because of that man?
I hope that all here understand the distinction I'm making, and I certainly offer my deep condolences to those of you who've lost a loved one to cancer. It ain't pretty.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/10/2003 16:01 Comments ||
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#5
My conscience tells me it's wrong to wish Yasser a drawn-out, agonizing demise. I'm only making an exception in his case. Other than him and Kim Jong Il, I can't think of anyone I'd wish it on.
Except maybe Hafiz Saeed...
Posted by: Fred ||
10/10/2003 16:37 Comments ||
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#6
My conscience tells me it's wrong to wish Yasser a drawn-out, agonizing demise.
It is - that should be "SHORT, HIGHLY PAINFUL, AND HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS" demise.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/10/2003 16:54 Comments ||
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#7
who cares how he dies? Nike. Just do it.
Posted by: B ||
10/10/2003 18:24 Comments ||
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Rival warlords in northern Afghanistan say they have reached a truce and will begin withdrawing tanks within 48 hours. Both groups are from differing ethnic lines, although reputedly loyal to President Hamid Karzai. Their agreement to end hostilities followed talks involving Britainâs ambassador to Afghanistan and the Afghan interior minister. On Wednesday both factions engaged in tank and mortar battles that claimed as many as 60 lives according to one group. There were conflicting claims about the clashes in northern Afghanistan between ethnic Tajiks and the ethnic Uzbek minority. The fighting erupted while a deal was being signed in the Afghan capital to demobilize warlord armies. Observers from the U.S. military say it is unclear if the new truce will hold. Yeah Iâd say.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/10/2003 2:30:21 AM ||
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Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 12:30 Comments ||
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Reloading completed, commence fire! A day after rival warlords agreed to a cease-fire, skirmishes broke out between their soldiers Friday, threatening the shaky truce that followed the bloodiest fighting in months in northern Afghanistan. The skirmishes, coming two days after fighting that reportedly killed more than 60 troops, exposed the fragility of President Hamid Karzai's U.S.-backed government, which has controlled Afghanistan since an American-led coalition ousted the Taliban regime in late 2001.
Gen. Majid Rozi, a commander loyal to northern Uzbek warlord Abdul Rashid Dostum, denied there was any new fighting, saying only that "sporadic shooting" was reported in the region. Gen. Abdul Sabur, top commander of Dostum's archrival, Atta Mohammed, said fighting broke out in two places west of Mazar-e-Sharif. Sabur said his soldiers used tanks, machine guns and other weapons after Dostum's troops fired first. It was not known if there were more casualties or whether the fighting continued. The reports could not be independently confirmed. A British army officer monitoring the cease-fire said the situation was unclear, although it was possible new clashes had occurred. The officer declined to give his name.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 15:57 Comments ||
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A British army officer monitoring the cease-fire said the situation was unclear, although it was possible new clashes had occurred. The officer declined to give his name.
Why not? I think he just wasn't sure what it was... ;)
#5
A British army officer monitoring the cease-fire
Where in the hell do the Brits get people to do this? It's not that large a country. If the US had the per capita audacity of the UK we really would be running the world.
Source is Pravda. Salt's over there... KADEK, the assembly for freedom and democracy in Kurdistan (former Kurdish workers party), has already deployed half its forces on Turkish territory in preparation for war. As a Rosbalt correspondent reports, this was announced by Ielmaz Shiar, the official spokesman for KADEK in the Caucasus. He said that Turkey has completely ignored all the peaceful proposals of the Kurdish party and as a result war is now almost inevitable.
This is not a good idea, guys...
Mr Shiar said the war will be different this time. It will take place in Turkish cities and not in the mountains like before. He said the Kurds are not afraid to wage war as this time there are tens and even hundreds of thousands of people ready to fight. Despite the US' declarations that it will defend Turkey from KADEK, Mr Shiar said he does not expect this to happen. 'The situation has changed and now the Kurds' relations with the US are just as close as those of Ankara,' he said.
Except that the Kurds we have close relations with aren't KADEK...
He also mentioned KADEK's relations with the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and the Kurdish democratic party. He said the country is now united and these former rivals are now ready to form an alliance. 'Our alliance is not just political but military as well,' he added.
That wouldn't be a good idea, either...
On September 1 KADEK called an end to the ceasefire declared by Abdullah Ocalan 5 years ago. The KADEK leader presented its 'roadmap' to Ankara for resolving the Kurdish-Turkish conflict. Now KADEK is saying there will be a large-scale war if Turkey does not meet its demands by December 1.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
10/10/2003 16:27 ||
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Wonder how that will affect Turkish troop deployments into Sunni Iraq, something the Kurds in Iraq do not want. I think this is saber rattling.
Russia took a step back toward its Soviet past Friday by giving preliminary approval to a law making military training mandatory in all elementary schools. Cue the "Evil Empire" theme music.
The state Duma lower house of parliament passed the legislation in the first of three required readings by a 338-42 vote. Russian schools abandoned mandatory military training after the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 and the subject has only been taught on a voluntary basis and with parentsâ permission since then. Guess they didnât get to many takers.
But the new rule would stipulate that training becomes mandatory for both boys and girls in the last two years of elementary school. The draft system still functions in Russia and all elementary school students who fail to make it into university are expected to enlist when they leave school. Russian President Vladimir Putin has supported the legislationas a way of reintroducing morale to a Russian military that remains bogged down in its second war in the separatist republic of Chechnya over the past decade. Vlad expects to need a lot more cannon fodder, Iâd wager.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 10:29:36 AM ||
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Good. It's time we smash Russia again. We just need to create a small currency crisis like 1998. They will rue the day they f*cked with us on the free market.
Posted by: Brian ||
10/10/2003 11:08 Comments ||
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#3
I wouldn't mind seeing this in the US. Now that dodgeball is illegal, bayonet charges will keep the kids in shape.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 12:32 Comments ||
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#4
Hose,
I think we should have some sort of military training in the U.S. as well and not that pansy-like xJROTC (Junior ROTC) either. And mandatory.
But then that would teach them such radical and dangerous concepts like civic duty, loyalty, persevernce, responsibility, and honor. The Donks and ACLU would never allow that.
#5
let the russians reassert themselves - then when the euros come asking for help - let the germans know there will be a price and tell the frogs to go fuck themselves!
Posted by: Dan ||
10/10/2003 14:35 Comments ||
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#6
my thoughts exactly. crybaby europe can eat my ass when Russia is back up and making noise next door.
#7
I think it's rather hypocritical for America's pal Britain to sabotage all European defense plans and then having you cry out that Europe is weak and defenseless. Britain *demands* that all European defense passes through NATO. So how can it be different than that we'll need NATO (which means America) to defend us?
If you really wanted European nations to no longer need the assistance of American troops, if USA was really annoyed about those European "crybabies" then it would also be all in favour of an independent European defense policy. It would be all in favour of diminishing NATO's role and increasing EU's role in this task.
In reality it of course wants European nations to be dependent on the US and NATO instead. How else would it make "New Europe", as Rumsfeld idiotically put it, support the war on Iraq?
Yes, Dan there's indeed a price for the Germans that helped you out in Afghanistan. That price is American ingratitude, as it has always been given America's legendary short-lived memory. And as you wish Russia's reassertion I see that your ingratitude extends to the Eastern Europeans that actively supported you in Iraq.
Which makes my point again - that if all *those* euros (and yes, kiddo, Poles and Bulgarians are as much "euros" as French and Germans are) expected any kind of thanks for their assistance or support, they were fools to so expect it. Your hatred of Europeans extends to the half of the nations that supported you as much as to the half which opposed you.
Said "crybaby europe", Poland, Bulgaria, Baltic states, Hungary, all those states, they will regret any support they provided when they notice the American ingratitude for said support.
#8
If America had such a short lived memory then the Germans would be speaking Russian. Your reference to American ingratitude is a reaction to European appeasement (French and German). For over 50 years America stood side by with Europe and when we need them what do we get, so excuse us if we seem a little ungracious. The Europeans have built up a huge social welfare system at the expense of your defense. And this is because America would always jump to their defense. The United States does not want to have to save Europe for a third time and the Europeans know this. That is why the French could always tweak America with no concern. I find it incredible that the Europeans think the world around them is one big happy place where everyone gets along.
As far as Germany helping out in Afganistan - you are helping yourselves as well as the rest of the free world. People who cherish liberty and freedom are the ones who where attacked on 9-11.
If you ever have read early writings by Al-Qeda you would understand this. They despise what we believe in,our liberties, individualism, capitalism ect....
When I referred to Euros (my mistake) I was referring to France and Germany (the countries that want to dominate the Euro zone). The rest of Europe actually supported us(except for Luxemburg and Belgium) and it is wrong to put them in the same category as the Frogs of france and Germany. It is unfortunate that Schoeder (excuse me if I misspelled his name) sided with France. France's goal was purely a power grab while Germany wanted to deflect attention away from their economy during their elections last year. If it wasn't then Germany would still be singing the same tune. But still it is unfortunute that they sided with tryanny. Not much of memory there. America does not forget support of friends (remember we were the ones who pushed for German reunification when France was trying to stop it - 50 years after WWII. Just how many years classifies as a short lived memory?)
Poland is free today because America stuck to its policies in regards to the Soviet Union - once again for over 50 years.
I am not against an independent European defense. I am sure the Brits are just a little skeptical though - recent history can tell you that. Look at the Balkans- what did the French and Germans manage there. The French were actively supporting the Serbs while the Germans supported the Croats -WWI all over again. Not much for European common defense policy there. It's kinda of funny that the frog chirac was pushing the United States to get involved there (and attack a soverign country) when their interests are at stake but for America to defend her interests is wrong.
The Brits are the backbone of European military forces and they know who there true friends are and who are consistently there in defense of western democracy (pretty good for a bunch of cowboy's with no memory).
Europe is weak because of there own policies - bread and butter over weapons. The world is a nasty place and it is only going to get worse.
I do not hate Europeans - just the french. They have American blood on their hands with their treachery in regards to Iraq. They actively courted countries on the security council with promises of low interest loans if they would vote against the Americans. They do not deserve a seat - it should be given to India or Japan.
Russia will reassert herself regardless of what anyone wishes. They got the raw deal from the West in the 90's and there will be serious issues for Europe in 10 or 20 years. AND AMERICA DOES REMEMBER.
Posted by: Dan ||
10/10/2003 18:23 Comments ||
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#9
: think it's rather hypocritical for America's pal Britain to sabotage all European defense plans and then having you cry out that Europe is weak and defenseless. Britain *demands* that all European defense passes through NATO
Now that IS spacey. When has NATO ever said "dont build those planes you need"? All we want is militaries that can actually work together, instead of a bunch of dilberting in the field.
#11
The supposed European defence force was a political gesture - and a rude one - towards NATO and the US. It was brought down when those nations not interested or not invited to participate (including Britain, Italy and Spain) told the "Chocolate Four" to can it. It was about as "European" in spirit as the Nazi-Soviet pact of 1939. Don't confuse French ambition with your precious EUtopianism, Aris.
#13
Disolving NATO may make sense. European nations have collected in the EU, are at peace among themselves and may have a collectiveinterest in backing up the EU governement with military power.
NATO has provided a convenient structure for the US to coordinate and staff joint operations with European nations in cases where there were collective interests at stake.
Some of these interests continue. We seem to have quite a bit in common with the UK with respect to global issues. Some of the facilites that we use in Germany have proved essential, but others are less so.
Americas presence in NATO may be simular to our presence in Japan and Korea - like training wheels on a thirteen-year old's bicycle. I'm pretty sure that Luxembourg can reamin peacefully free through the next millenium without GI's getting wasted in it's discos.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 19:46 Comments ||
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#14
Bulldog> The European defense force is being vetoed by the brits regardless of incarnation, regardless of whether it's a "rude gesture" or not. Britain oppose any defense pact being a part of the EU, even if it only affects countries that wish to take part in it. Britain demands that it all must happen through NATO, rudely ignoring all countries that are part of the EU but may have no desire to join NATO. Britain in essence tells those countries to go to hell and fend for themselves if they don't want to be part of NATO.
You are talking about one specific move by France-Germany-Belgium-Luxembourg but I'm talking about the whole issue of European defense which preexisted the Iraq situation and the US-Europe split.
#15
Dan> If America does remember, then let her remember this bit of geography also: that between Russia and Germany there are several countries which stood on America's side during the war on Iraq, and they'll be threatened by a rising Russia much before France and Germany do --
your glee about said rise still smacks of ignorance to me, therefore. Or why else would you be happy about the threat to your eastern european allies?
#16
Aris - Yes Poland is between Germany and the frogs. But look at what is happening with American diplomacy and military movements. We are moving our forces and security agreements to Poland and other friends.
Russia can and will be able to indimidate Germany and France without ever going through Europe. Your mentality is 1939, warfare today is a much differnt beast. Without American support you will be at their mercy. Except of course if there is radical change and fun loving euro liberals take over the Kremlin and kicks out the generals.
Poland is safe because of American security gurantees. She deserves the time to develop, as Germany and the frogs did under American largess.
The Poles made a strategic move. They see a divided, weak Europe to their west and understand the Russian threat. Really can not blame them, I wouldn't want to depend on the major (except Britain) European powers for my security. Look at the shaft America was given after 9-11. Mutual defense means just that mutual.
Ignorance, nice comment, but you have the right to express yourself.
In all due respect any major distruption in Germany and even France will cause major economic distruptions world wide, especially in the United States. The answer is not letting western democracies be destroyed but supporting each other.
Europe needs to understand that American intersts are world wide. There are enemies of the United States that can no longer be ignored.
We are at war and if Europe cannot fullfill her part of our mutual defense treaties then what good are these treaties?
We have stood side by side with Europe, provided billions of dollar's, markets for her goods, protection ( a protection that put American cities at great peril from Soviet nukes) and we are repaid with contempt and outright hostility.
If that is what a friend and ally is then who needs them.
#17
Aris - Yes Poland is between Germany and the frogs. But look at what is happening with American diplomacy and military movements. We are moving our forces and security agreements to Poland and other friends.
Russia can and will be able to indimidate Germany and France without ever going through Europe. Your mentality is 1939, warfare today is a much differnt beast. Without American support you will be at their mercy. Except of course if there is radical change and fun loving euro liberals take over the Kremlin and kicks out the generals.
Poland is safe because of American security gurantees. She deserves the time to develop, as Germany and the frogs did under American largess.
The Poles made a strategic move. They see a divided, weak Europe to their west and understand the Russian threat. Really can not blame them, I wouldn't want to depend on the major (except Britain) European powers for my security. Look at the shaft America was given after 9-11. Mutual defense means just that mutual.
Ignorance, nice comment, but you have the right to express yourself.
In all due respect any major distruption in Germany and even France will cause major economic distruptions world wide, especially in the United States. The answer is not letting western democracies be destroyed but supporting each other.
Europe needs to understand that American intersts are world wide. There are enemies of the United States that can no longer be ignored.
We are at war and if Europe cannot fullfill her part of our mutual defense treaties then what good are these treaties?
We have stood side by side with Europe, provided billions of dollar's, markets for her goods, protection ( a protection that put American cities at great peril from Soviet nukes) and we are repaid with contempt and outright hostility.
If that is what a friend and ally is then who needs them.
#18
Aris, Do you have any idea of how pathetic a European army without the US would be? Eastern Europe knows full well that a military alliance such as that proposed by anti-American axis in Europe would offer about as much protection against a future expansionist Russia as a tea towel. Even if Britain joined a European defense force, a solely European army would be wholly inadequate for the task. There's no sign at all of most of the big EU countries taking defence seriously. It's easy for western European nations to talk of European defence forces, knowing full well that there's no direct threat to themselves. The countries you claim to be speaking for are those which would form the buffer zone, which know that only a US-backed defence would be able to offer them satisfactory protection. Eastern Europe is not interested in what would be a symbolic/shambolic EU army and a wholly counter-productive division of the military alliance binding most of the civilised world. They want NATO.
A bomb has exploded at an air forces barracks in the French Riviera city of Nice, at a building targeted in past attacks linked to separatists from the unruly Mediterranean isle of Corsica, a local prefect says. Local government prefect Pierre Breuil confirmed that the explosion was caused by a bomb. "Loud noise, shattered glass, 1 wounded, yup, thatâs a bomb."
The explosion wounded a woman guarding a school beside the barracks and shattered windows in the area around the building, witnesses on the scene said on Friday. There was no immediate claim of responsibility. Last July, Corsican separatists, who regularly target state buildings on their own island nearby and occasionally on the mainland, set off two bombs in Nice, at a tax office and a customs building. Sounds like a quagmire, letâs call in the UN.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 9:54:42 AM ||
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Clearly the Euros need stronger bomb-control laws.
The Pakistan Army on Thursday arrested another 10 tribesmen for refusing to hand over three people who allegedly harboured Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters near the Afghan border, bringing the total arrested in a two-day operation to 42. âWe have arrested 10 more people and sealed 18 markets of Zalikhel and Karikhel tribes,â administrator Anwar Ali Shah told Daily Times from Wana, the headquarters of South Waziristan Agency. The three wanted men are believed to have sheltered a band of Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in their residential mud-walled compounds near Angoor Ada in South Waziristan, five kilometres from the Afghan border. The militants were targetted in a major military operation last week by hundreds of commandoes who surrounded their hideouts.
"Cheeze, Mahmoud! It looks like the whole Pakistan army out there!"
"Don't worry, honored guests! We'll just refuse to turn you over..."
"Ummm... They're bringing up tanks."
Eight fighters and two Pakistani troops were killed in the ensuing battle while 18 Taliban and Al Qaeda suspects were captured. Shah said Wana authorities have been seizing cars and sealing commercial premises owned by the tribes hiding the three local men, and have threatened to demolish tribesmenâs homes if they do not hand the men over.
"Oh! Won't hand them over, huh? Chaudry! Take their stuff!"
âWe impounded 20 automobiles and sealed several hundred shops, petrol pumps and hotels belonging to the Ahmedzai Wazir tribe and Karihel and Zalikhel sub-tribes,â Shah said. âIf the tribesmen fail to hand over the three men who sheltered Al Qaeda terrorists we will start demolishing their homes,â Shah said. He cited a clause in the Frontier Crimes Regulation legal code covering the seven tribal agencies, which decrees the demolition of homes as the punishment for sheltering terrorists or criminals.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
10/10/2003 11:41 ||
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sounds like they pissed off the wrong "authorities"...
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/10/2003 12:56 Comments ||
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#2
sounds like the paks finally mean business.
Posted by: Bill ||
10/10/2003 15:50 Comments ||
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JPost Reg Reqâd
India, Israel and Russia on Friday signed an agreement for the US$1 billion sale of PHALCON airborne early warning systems to India, a defense official told The Associated Press.
Indiaâs rival, Pakistan, has said the system would upset the balance of power in South Asia, where the two major powers have fought three wars since 1947 and now have nuclear weapons. Balance tilting away from the nutcases? Sounds like a feature, not a bug
The advanced Israeli-made PHALCON radar systems are to be fitted on converted Russian-made Ilyushin transport plane that India will purchase from Moscow. Gotta maintain it better than those Migs, Effendi
The deal, finalized during the visit to India last month by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, was signed Friday morning, Indian Defense Ministry spokesman Amitabha Chakrabarti told the AP.
Indiaâs Defense Secretary Ajay Prasad signed the agreement with retired Maj. Gen. Yasi Ben Hanan, head of Sibat, the Israeli defense ministryâs licensing agency for the PHALCON.
Mikhail Denisov, the first deputy chairman of Russiaâs State Committee for Military Technical Cooperation, also signed, Russian Ambassador Alexander M. Kadakin told the AP. Technical discussion between the three sides were concluded recently and the agreement was cleared, an Indian official told the AP.
India and Israel had been negotiating on the PHALCON for several years.
India has been seeking to strengthen its defenses by acquiring the airborne warning and control systems that can detect aerial threats and serve as a platform to direct Indian combat jets to targets. In pakland and China
Pakistan, however, has criticized what it called Indiaâs weapons shopping spree, saying it is dangerous for the subcontinent, where the two major powers have fought three wars since their independence from British colonialism in 1947. "thatâs why weâve been buying and testing all these NK NoDongs"
"We believe that such defense deals will upset the conventional military balance," Pakistanâs Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed told the AP in Islamabad, the Pakistani capital. He said the PHALCON deal is "worrying for us," but said Pakistan is capable of defending itself. "externally...internally weâre all FUâd"
Ahmed said during a recent visit to the United States, Pakistanâs Prime Minister Zafarullah Khan Jamali raised the issue of "Israel and Russiaâs defense deals with India."
Israelâs deputy prime minister, Yosef Lapid, had told Indian journalists last month that the system "will ensure that the skies of your area are under your surveillance in a very effective way."
He said Israel had no animosity toward Pakistan, but "our good relations with India are to do with defense, and every country has the right to defend itself." Pakistan does not recognize Israel. Embassy in Ramallah, huh?
Defense sources in Israel say the trilateral deal was delayed for more than a year while Russia tried to negotiate better terms and India sought assurances that there would be no-last minute objections from Moscow after the deal was signed.
The sources said India was mindful of an American veto that torpedoed a similar sale to China in 2000. Israel and China had agreed on the sale of one PHALCON-equipped plane worth US$250 million, and China had the option of buying seven more.
At the time, the United States argued that such aircraft would increase the threat to Taiwan and endanger US pilots in case of war with China.
No mention was made of any objections by Washington to the PHALCON sale to India. The United States recently lifted its own sanctions on most military sales to India, which had been imposed in 1998 after India and Pakistan tested nuclear weapons. GWB and Rummy and Powell signed off on it - message here for Perv and the ISI
US and Indian troops have been engaging in joint military exercises from Alaska to the Arabian Sea over the past year, and their ties are growing closer since the Sept. 11 terror attacks.
Washington also has close relations with Pakistan, however, which India sees as its major threat
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/10/2003 8:24:55 AM ||
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Doesn't look like the US as any plans to rumble with India anytime. Contrast with no F-16s for Pakiland.
A powerful Shia Muslim movement warned US troops on Friday not to enter Baghdadâs largest Shia neighbourhood after a gun battle there on Thursday night killed two US soldiers and two Iraqis. "Stay outta our âhood, we be Shia! We be bad!"
It was the worst clash yet between Iraqi Shia militiamen and US troops. Shia leaders on Friday were calling for restraint from their followers even as they branded America a "servant of Israel". US forces are keen to avoid alienating Iraqâs Shia population, who until now have not been caught joined in attacks against US forces seen mainly in Sunni areas.
Dozens of armed Shia militiamen stood guard at the site of the battle on Friday, outside the headquarters of Muqtada al-Sadr, a popular Shia preacher. His followers insist the building was the target of a US raid on Thursday night, although US officials deny this. "The building is still standing? Then it wasnât us."
US and Iraqi versions of the battle - if it was the same battle, and both sides insist there was only one - are contradictory. Itâs one of the alternate universe things.
Both sides agree it happened near Mr al-Sadrâs headquarters in Sadr City. Residents of the neighbourhood claim that seven US tanks surrounded the headquarters at 9:30pm and fired into the compound, killing two people inside. If seven tanks were firing into your compound, Iâll wager weâd have more than two dead, and you wouldnât have a compound.
Seyd Hassan al-Mussawi, head of Mr al-Sadrâs Jaysh al-Mahdi militia, said on Friday that his soldiers were not involved in the fighting, but the US troops were fired on by "ordinary citizens, who were defending the holy place [the headquarters]". Another "holy place", theyâre everywhere!
Lt-Col George Krivo, US army spokesman, said he was not aware of any raid on Mr al-Sadrâs headquarters. He added that the battle had started after a three-vehicle US patrol was led into an ambush at 8pm by Iraqis requesting humanitarian aid. He said two US soldiers were killed and four were injured in the fighting. After the attack, a quick reaction force was called into the neighbourhood to secure the area and extract the patrol. Sounds more likely.
In a Friday prayer service to a crowd gathered outside the headquarters, Sheikh Abdel Mahdi Darraji, a representative of Mr al-Sadr, on Friday likened the US to a "terrorist organisation" bent on dominating the Middle East. He called on the US-appointed Governing Council to resign "for the sake of their honour" and warned US troops to stay away from Sadr City. Sounds like the Sheikh is pushing his luck.
After the sermon the coffins of two "martyrs", apparently killed in the battle with US forces, were paraded through the neighbourhood, cheered by a crowd of 5,000-10,000. 5K to 10K, thatâs a pretty skimpy crowd. Sunniâs can turn out twice that many at the drop of a hat, er, turban.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 3:52:53 PM ||
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Ahhhh second again! Damn you Steve! ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/10/2003 15:59 Comments ||
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#2
Bwwwhahahahahaha!!! The Army of Steve⢠is everywhere!
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/10/2003 16:06 Comments ||
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#3
Ah, The Frank-Steve Bandwidth Wars...
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/10/2003 16:10 Comments ||
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#4
Does the Army of Steve have thousands and thousands of "holy places" to defend from the infidels?
#6
"Does the Army of Steve have thousands and thousands of "holy places" to defend from the infidels?"
Indeed we do, I have to stop at one and pick up a case of "holy water" on the way home. I plan on doing a lot of worshiping this weekend.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 16:27 Comments ||
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#7
tu3031, In a signed commentary, Rodong Sinmun reports that the inestimable (5'1"? 5'2"? Hard to tell with all the mousse) Dear Leader Kim Jong-Il has announced that PRK is replacing their army-based policy with a new "Steve-based policy". Juche and cookies will be served later in the rec room.
#8
Shia in the south can turn out significant crowd when they have to. Shia in Baghdad are another issue. It sounds to me like Iranian troublemakers have shifted from the Shia south (where they had little luck charging up the people) to Shia Baghdad where they might ahve more luck.
#9
In order to establish authority, a proper police force needs to be in place and performing the task of keeping order. This "militia", with its obvious religious affiliations, is only going to be a source of problems.
#10
Sounds like it's urban renewal time in Baghdad. Somebody tell the Buffs to start cranking up.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/10/2003 19:42 Comments ||
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#11
Well, this is the situation of the biggest gorilla of the jungle sitting in the middle of irritated monkeys in and around Iraq. The gorilla has to roar very loud to get some peace and quite.
Posted by: SK ||
10/11/2003 5:23 Comments ||
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#12
Mr al-Sadr has been a thorn in our side for months now -- seems like he's finally gotten bold enough with the authorities lack of response to kick it up a notch--maybe he needs to have an "accident"
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/11/2003 11:59 Comments ||
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EFL
U.S. troops on Thursday arrested an Iraqi resistance leader believed to be responsible for scores of deadly attacks against American forces around Saddam Husseinâs hometown, officials said. The 720th Military Police Battalion, in a series of overnight and midday raids of small farming hamlets along the Tigris River, also uncovered a factory where deadly roadside bombs were being built. Led by an Iraqi informant, MPs raided a desert oasis in Tikritâs Abu Ajeed area and arrested a member of the Fedayeen Saddam, the ousted leaderâs former imported goon squad paramilitary force. As he was arrested, the captured Fedayeen Saddam member looked at the U.S. soldiers with hatred as he was bound. "He is a card-carrying Fedayeen," Poirier said, holding up the manâs membership card in the organization. And I always thought "card-carrying member" was a metaphor.
As Poirier spoke, soldiers discovered a rocket propelled launcher and nine rockets buried in a nearby well. The man also is suspected of orchestrating a Sept. 18 ambush that killed three U.S. soldiers, an attack that marked a new cycle of orchestrated violence against the American military in Tikrit. "He is responsible we believe for the attacks in the Abu Ajeed area, the ambushes on troops and attacks" against the main U.S. base, said Capt. Desmond Bailey, from Wetumpka, Ala., who commands the 10th Cavalryâs Golf troop, whose soldiers were killed Sept. 18. Break out the giggle juice and the Metallica.
Posted by: Mike ||
10/10/2003 10:45:18 AM ||
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Just how stupid do you have to be to carry the card? It must be a cultural thing. "I'm important. Look, I have a card!"
By Charles "the Hammer" Krauthammer, Washington Post EFL
Rolf Ekeus, living proof that not all Swedish arms inspectors are fools, may have been right.
Ekeus headed the U.N. inspection team that from 1991 to 1997 uncovered not just tons of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq but a massive secret nuclear weapons program as well. . . .
Ekeus theorizes that Hussein decided years ago that it was unwise to store mustard gas and other unstable and corrosive poisons in barrels, and also difficult to conceal them. Therefore, rather than store large stocks of weapons of mass destruction, he would adapt the program to retain an infrastructure (laboratories, equipment, trained scientists, detailed plans) that could "break out" and ramp up production when needed. The model is Japanese "just in time" manufacturing, where you save on inventory by making and delivering stuff in immediate response to orders. Except that Husseinâs business was toxins, not Toyotas.
The interim report of chief U.S. weapons inspector David Kay seems to support the Ekeus hypothesis. He found infrastructure, but as yet no finished product.
As yet, mind you. "We are not yet at the point where we can say definitively either that such weapons stocks do not exist or that they existed before the war and our only task is to find where they have gone," Kay testified last week.
This is fact, not fudging. How do we know? Because Husseinâs practice was to store his chemical weapons unmarked amid his conventional munitions, and we have just begun to understand the staggering scale of Husseinâs stocks of conventional munitions. Hussein left behind 130 known ammunition caches, many of which are more than twice the size of Manhattan. Imagine looking through "600,000 tons of artillery shells, rockets, aviation bombs and other ordnance" -- rows and rows stretched over an area the size of even one Manhattan -- looking for barrels of unmarked chemical weapons.
And there are 130 of these depots. Kayâs team has so far inspected only 10. The question of whether Hussein actually retained finished product is still open.
. . .
The fact that Hussein may have decided to go from building up stocks to maintaining clandestine production facilities (may have: remember, Kay still has 120 depots to go through) does not mean that he got out of the WMD business. Otherwise, by that logic, one would have to say that until the very moment at which the plutonium from its 8,000 processed fuel rods is wedded to waiting nuclear devices, North Korea does not have a nuclear program.
Hussein was simply making his WMD program more efficient and concealable. His intent and capacity were unchanged.
Moreover, for those who care about the United Nations (I do not, but many administration critics have a weakness for legal niceties), Resolution 1441, unanimously passed by the Security Council, ordered Hussein to make a full accounting of his WMD program and to cooperate with inspectors, and warned that there would be no more tolerance for concealment or obstruction. Kayâs finding of "dozens of WMD-related program activities" concealed from U.N. inspectors constitutes an irrefutable material breach of 1441 -- and an open-and-shut justification for the U.S. decision to disarm Saddam Hussein by force.
One might, therefore, reasonably expect that there are many more WMD revalations to come.
Posted by: Mike ||
10/10/2003 8:43:05 AM ||
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I don't suppose this little tidbit will make the front page of the NY Times, Washpost or LALATimes??
#4
uh. guys, it was on the op-ed page of the Wash. Post. Thats who Krauthammer works for (well hes sydicated and all) WaPo is actually pretty balanced, both on news and oped page. You really outta take a look.
#5
Liberal Hawk,
I subscribed as a Midshipman. We called it Pravda West. Many other Mids chose the USA today, but I liked to get the comics on Sunday.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 22:24 Comments ||
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#6
Hussein left behind 130 known ammunition caches, many of which are more than twice the size of Manhattan.
OK--as usual my bullshit detector is going off when reading Mr Krauthammer. Any Ex-military here seen a weapons cache, not a base containing one over 45 square miles?
http://www.fedfleet.org/nyinformation.asp
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/11/2003 12:16 Comments ||
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#7
Hussein left behind 130 known ammunition caches, many of which are more than twice the size of Manhattan.
OK--as usual my bullshit detector is going off when reading Mr Krauthammer. Any Ex-military here seen a weapons cache, not a base containing one over 45 square miles?
http://www.fedfleet.org/nycinformation.asp
(corrected site address)
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/11/2003 12:18 Comments ||
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#8
Ok naysayers....you now have the floor. Hello.....Hello.......anybody out there???
Posted by: Bond, James Bond ||
10/23/2003 13:56 Comments ||
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He just wonât go away, EFL:
The outgoing prime minister of the mainly Muslim state of Malaysia has made a strong call for peace and tolerance in the Islamic world. Dr Mahathir Mohamad told BBC News Online violence had "achieved nothing", for example, for the Palestinians. Point for you, resume play.
But he also accused the West of treating all Muslims as "terrorists". Just the ones who attack us.
"A lot of people think the teachings of Islam make them confrontative (sic), but in fact, if you go to the fundamentals of Islam, we are urged to live in peace," he said. "After we have converted everyone to islam."
He said that in this "true sense", he considers himself a "fundamentalist" Muslim. We never had any doubts that you were.
Dr Mahathir, 78, is due to retire at the end of October after 22 years in office, making him South East Asiaâs longest-serving elected leader. He appealed to Muslims worldwide to go back to the "original, true teachings of Islam" and embrace values such as "peace, friendship, brotherhood, and tolerance of people". Malaysia, he said, did not have a problem with Islamic militants because it had acted to stop the "teaching of the politics of hatred" in religious schools. "Could you hand me my lips? Thanks, they keep dropping off."
"We are very vigilant and know what is happening," he said, adding that the countryâs tough Internal Security Act had not been passed "just for fun". At the same time, he added, there was a "clash of civilisations" between Islamic and other states. How about that, he got another point right.
"It is a lack of understanding of Islam that has led to this present situation," he said. Oh, we understand, thatâs why we are "clashing".
But he admitted that there was a problem within Islam with "wrong" interpretations of Islamic teachings. "The result is that Islam appears to be an obstruction to progress," he said, adding that he believed there was a need for better unity within the Muslim world. "And more modern weapons, cuz weâre peaceful"
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 9:11:40 AM ||
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Myanmar authorities stopped followers of pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi from paying their respects Friday at her Yangon home, where supporters say the Nobel laureate is being detained, an official of her National League for Democracy party said. About 30 party members were turned away from a checkpoint at an intersection near Suu Kyiâs lakeside residence on the Full Moon Day of Thadingyut marking the end of Buddhist lent. What, no âspontaneousâ riot to beat the stuffing out of her followers? Thugs are slipping.
Homage traditionally is paid to elders and teachers on the holiday. Most of Myanmarâs 42 million people are Buddhists. ``We were told by security officers at the checkpoint near the roadblocks that we will not be given permission (to proceed),ââ said Myint Aye, chairman of a local NLD office in Yangon. ``We were even accused of trying to create trouble. We are not here to make any trouble but to pay homage to our leader as it is our tradition.ââ You were creating trouble, and good for you.
On Sunday, Myanmar Foreign Minister Win Aung told delegates at a meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Bali, Indonesia, that Suu Kyi was not in detention or house arrest but was recuperating from surgery. "Sheâs fine, really, those wounds incisions will heal in no time.
She has been home since Sept. 26, after spending a week in hospital for an operation for a gynecological condition. Before her hospitalization, she was held incommunicado at an undisclosed location by the military government. The junta first said Suu Kyi was being held for her own safety, but later said her detention was intended to safeguard public security. When the military announced her return home from hospital, it did not mention what restrictions she faced. However, her personal physician, Tin Myo Win, said she would be held under conditions of house arrest. Tin Myo Win visits Suu Kyi daily to check on her health. Junta had better pray she stays healthy.
``We are here because Win Aung said she is not under detention,ââ NLD party official Myint Aye told The Associated Press. Nope, except for those four-point restraints they slapped on her.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/10/2003 8:59:53 AM ||
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Some unfair and imbalanced reporting from BBC...
A senior Red Cross official has launched a rare attack on the US detention of al-Qaeda and Taleban suspects at Guantanamo Bay. Christophe Girod told the New York Times it was unacceptable that the 600 detainees should be held for open-ended terms without proper legal process. Boo frigginâ hoo.
His criticism came as a group of American former judges, diplomats and military officers called on the US Supreme Court to examine the legality of holding the foreign nationals for almost two years, without trial, charge or access to lawyers. Mr Girod said the International Committee of the Red Cross was making the unusually blunt public statement because of a lack of action after previous private contacts with American officials. "One cannot keep these detainees in this pattern, this situation, indefinitely," he said during a visit to the US naval base where the Taleban and al-Qaeda suspects are being held. Maybe the splodeydopes should have thought of that when they were training to attack the U.S. in a previous "safehaven".
US officials insist there are reasons for holding the alleged fighters and say they will get a fair legal hearing in due course. Mr Girod is leading a team from the International Committee of the Red Cross, which has just completed an inspection tour of the detention camp in Cuba. Although he did not criticise any physical conditions at the camp, he said that it was intolerable that the complex was used as "an investigation centre, not a detention centre". "The open-endedness of the situation and its impact on the mental health of the population has become a major problem," he told the New York Times. Mental health of Islamist killers?
They'd be dead a lot longer than they're going to be detained, more's the pity...
Christine Huskey, an American lawyer representing 28 Kuwaiti inmates, told the BBC she had had "absolutely" no access to them. "I represent a ghost," she told the World Today programme. In the past 18 months, 21 detainees have made 32 suicide attempts, and many more are being treated for depression, the New York Times says.
"Depressed, Mahmoud?"
"Yeah. I wanna go home to Yemen."
"Here, have some giggle juice."
"Thanksh! I feel mush bedder..."
Mr Girod says prisoners who spoke to his team regularly asked about what was going to happen to them.
"You're gonna grow old and die living in cages."
On Sunday a group including former American judges and military officials filed legal papers urging the US Supreme Court to intervene. Don Guter, the US navyâs judge advocate general until last year, said it was not acceptable simply to hold suspected al-Qaeda or Taleban members until the US war on terror was over.
It's not "acceptable" for their victims to be dead forever, either...
The argument filed to the Supreme Court by Mr Guter and others said: "The lives of American military forces may well be endangered by the United Statesâ failure to grant foreign prisoners in its custody the same rights that the United States insists be accorded to American prisoners held by foreigners." That view was backed by ex-prisoners-of-war, some of whom told the Supreme Court they owed their lives to the fact that their captors abided by the Geneva conventions. On Wednesday an Australian lawyer representing some of the suspects said they were being submitted to torture. Here comes BBCâs version of "fair and balanced" reporting--one short sentence:
US officials have denied torturing detainees, saying they are allowed to practise their religion and given good medical care. Geez, thanks for the help in fighting terrorism, mates.
Posted by: TJ ||
10/10/2003 9:28:24 AM ||
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In the past 18 months, 21 detainees have made 32 suicide attempts, and many more are being treated for depression, the New York Times says.
It doesn't get any better than that. I guess BBC is afraid these murdering bastards won't get a crack at civilians.
On Sunday a group including former American judges and military officials filed legal papers urging the US Supreme Court to intervene. Don Guter, the US navyâs judge advocate general until last year, said it was not acceptable simply to hold suspected al-Qaeda or Taleban members until the US war on terror was over.
Why not? It is a long established legal precedence that the government can hold someone indefinately if it can show the court the detainee's intentions are to make widespread havoc upon his release. If they can do this domestically, they sure as hell can for these foreign suicidal murderers.
I wonder what is happening to the legal profession in this country. They are going to considerable lengths to protect sworn enemies of the United States, men sworn to take their own lives as long as they can murder Americans. That makes the packet of foo's who filed this brief with SCOTUS traitors.
#2
Can we develop a tagging system like Marlin Perkins used to use for big cats. That way we could kind of check on these guys once they are released. As a tradeoff with human rights activists, we could provide a free large soda at any worldwide McDonalds for any tagged jihadi.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 10:42 Comments ||
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#3
We have a large group of idiots in this nation that think everything will be just hunky-dory if the proper "legal" rules are followed. They don't have a clue that the people in detention in Cuba don't give a damn about our rules, our laws, or any of the rest of our civilization. These people need to be visited by a cluebat to the schnozz. Sometimes I wonder how we've managed to remain an independent republic with all these "superminds" trying to micromanage our government.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/10/2003 10:47 Comments ||
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#4
Of course they tried to commmit suicide, that's part of their training.
Perhaps the depression is related to the fact that they are now realizing to some extent that they have been fed an enormous pack of lies about the decadant west and regret their previous stand even if they can't admit it to themselves.
#5
Wow, the Red Cross is such a swell organization. Remember when they visited the Concentration Camp at Theresienstadt and said it looked good to them?
#6
This is still the same old problem we've gone round and round on since 9/11 and before. What kinds of rights do our happy campers have?. Are these mokes "criminals" or POWs or "war criminals" or something else? If criminals, then there's the whole pro-perp legal system to deal with - e.g., Massoui or however the hell you spell his name. If POW, there's all that Geneva convention/Red Cross/Red Crescent stuff. If War criminals, you're still looking at some kind of "fair hearing" process, unless of course you can invoke the "shoot spies immediately" type clauses.
I'd like to propose that a traditional Northern European approach be reinstituted; that is, outlawing. In Norse culture, being declared an outlaw didn't mean you were operating outside the law, it meant you were placed outside the protection of the law. Any one who felt like it could settle your hash without the penalty of weregild or starting a feud.
Let's see.... Al Queda is decared outlawed. Capture a terrorist, put him in Gitmo, wring him/her out, produce some fertizer for the crops and screw you ALCU, AI & Red Crescent.
This is the original of the story the Beebs wrote up...
A senior official of the International Committee of the Red Cross said on Thursday that the holding of more than 600 detainees here was unacceptable because they were being held for open-ended terms without proper legal process. Boo Fricking Hoo! Christophe Girod, the senior Red Cross official in Washington, said on Thursday in an interview at the United States Naval Base here, "One cannot keep these detainees in this pattern, this situation, indefinitely." oh, really? fine, execute them
Mr. Girod spoke as he and a team of officials from the international organization were completing their latest inspection tour of the detention camp. Although he did not criticize any physical conditions at the camp, which houses 660 detainees, most of them captured in the Afghan conflict, he said that it was intolerable that the complex was used as "an investigation center, not a detention center." He said the International Red Cross was making the unusual statements because of a lack of action. Note that the Israeliâs Red Cross (Magen David Adom)is not granted full membership in the International due to objections from European and Islamic Red Crescent Societies. They demand the Star of David be removed from their emblem and name....i.e.: No Jooooos
United States officials have said they have begun moving to sort the detainees, choosing which to release and which to take before military tribunals on criminal charges. Some officials, notably Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, have said the detainees may be held until the effort against terrorism ends. as in ..."when weâre ready, now STFU!"
Mr. Girod said, "The open-endedness of the situation and its impact on the mental health of the population has become a major problem."
Interning enemy aliens seems to make sense to me. The RC's problem is that they're thinking of them as POW's or as crooks, where the Bad Guys have managed to invent a third category for themselves. One day, if the rest of the world manages to take terrorism seriously, some sort of rules will be worked out to cover them, but right now they've taken themselves out of the rulebook...
In 18 months, 21 detainees have made 32 suicide attempts, and human rights groups have said the high incidence of such events, as well as the number of detainees being treated for clinical depression, was a direct result of the uncertainties of their situations. cry me a river
Since mental instability is a job requirement for jihadis, I'm not surprised in the least. Nor [tap! tap!] do I have the least bit of sympathy...
Mr. Girod said that in meetings with members of his inspection teams, detainees regularly asked about what was going to happen to them. "Itâs always the No. 1 question," he said. "They donât know about the future."
Perhaps they should dwell on their glory days, waving guns, rolling their eyes, and beating other men's wives...
Camp officials have said most of the detaineesâ mental health problems existed before they arrived.
I said that...
Mr. Girodâs comments departed from the usual reluctance of the International Red Cross to issue public criticism. The International Committee of the Red Cross, based in Geneva, is the sole group outside the government allowed to inspect the main detention center and meet the detainees. Under longstanding procedures, the committee agrees that in exchange for access it will not generally publicize its findings but rather take complaints or criticisms to the government in charge in the hope that they can be addressed. Only when the Red Cross decides that its views are not being heeded does it publicize its concerns. Mr. Girod said the views he was expressing had recently been placed on the Red Cross Web site, www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf /html/5QRC5V?OpenDocument.
Now available for Fisking...
He said the International Red Cross had been urging the Bush administration for months to make significant changes in operations here if it intended to keep using the site as an investigation center. The administration, Mr. Girod added, should consider establishing a policy under which most, if not all, of the detainees have some idea of when they can learn whether they will be charged or released. The military has released 68 detainees to their home countries. Most of those sent to Afghanistan were freed. Those sent to Saudi Arabia were imprisoned there.
That sounds like a good thing to me...
Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller of the Army, commander of the task force that runs the detention center and oversees the questioning of the detainees, said in an interview, "We donât want the enemy combatants here to stay one day longer than is necessary." General Miller said the inmates had been kept in custody because they had valuable information to impart. We ainât done squeezing them. A little problem with translators
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/10/2003 8:09:35 AM ||
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The suicide 32 attempts intrigue me, if they wanted to kill themselves they could do it. Maybe the Red Cross is mad because we don't allow them to kill themselves in say a crowded market?
#2
I'd care if these guys were POWs. They're not, so I don't.
Hell, I'm all for barring the Red Cross from getting near them, given the ICRC's anti-Israeli antics.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/10/2003 8:53 Comments ||
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"he said that it was intolerable that the complex was used as "an investigation center, not a detention center."
-Quit yer bitchin' - these jackholes get 5 times a day to pray plus the special Islamic diet tray; 3,000 Americans murdered on 9/11 - the thumb screws are going to be turning in Gitmo for a while yet. What's the old Arab saying - "Revenge takes 40 years" - see you in 2041.
"In 18 months, 21 detainees have made 32 suicide attempts"
-They're just not trying hard enough. On a serious note, he fails to mention the great job our folks are doing down there preventing these morons from completing the deed. Although I'd be tempted to turn a blind eye if Mustafa & Mohammad wanted to hang themselves with their own beard, or beat themselves silly w/their U.S. issued Qu'ran.
"Itâs always the No. 1 question," he said. "They donât know about the future."
-That's an easy one. You're staying guests of the U.S. Military until we say otherwise because you're a bunch of brainwashed loonies & a danger to innocent people everywhere. Plus, we're still pissed about that little thing you pulled called 9/11, so know your role & shut your mouth or we're gonna start using hog fat to cook your rice in. See, uncertainty solved.
#5
OK, Mr. Girod, we've seen the light! We'll turn over, say, 5 of the detainees to you personally. You can house/feed/etc. them any way you want. You, personally, will be responsible for their behavior, including all the people they kill. Maybe they'll start with your family.
Or we can just keep them in Gitmo and save your sorry ass.
As for "they don't know the future" - how about kill them (or allow them to commit suicide), wrap them in pigskins, and bury them with a Star of David on their headstones? Does their present "future" look better now?
It's too bad we're such nice people.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/10/2003 10:47 Comments ||
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Cheney said they'd be released when the War on Terror is over. That's about as good as any prisoners got during World War 2 so what's the beaf?
Via UPI. Youâre take would be helpful on this, Fred, if itâs true itâs pretty damning stuff.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavezâs government is protecting suspected members of al-Qaida and other militant groups by providing them with false identities, former officials of his Interior Ministry told United Press International.
Gen. Marcos Ferreira, who headed the Departamento de Extranjeria, or DIEX, which is responsible for keeping records on foreigners, told UPI thousands of fraudulent Venezuelan identities were issued to members of known terrorist groups, including al-Qaida, on orders from top officials in Chavezâs government.
Keep in mind that with new identities most Arabs can safely pass as Hispanics.
By tracing redundant ID numbers, intelligence officials said 3,799 fraudulent documents were issued between 2000 and 2002. The largest batch of 2,520 were given to Colombians and the second-largest category of 279 went to individuals of Middle Eastern origin, invariably described in Venezuelan Interior Ministry computer records as Syrians.
The Colombians are likely FARC gunnies, but that still makes over 200 al-Qaeda and Hezbollah operatives in-country.
Ferreira said he forwarded an FBI request for surveillance on Hakim Mohammed al-Diab Fatah -- a Venezuelan-Arab who is believed to be linked to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington -- to his bosses in the Interior Ministry. Although Venezuelan authorities denied any knowledge of the suspect, Ferreira said DISIP picked up al-Diab Fatah directly from the plane on which he arrived from the United States on March 8, 2002. He wasnât taken through any immigration checks so his identity could be laundered, he said.
Security officials, meanwhile, told UPI Afghan mullahs connected to the Taliban also entered Venezuela in 2002. Their local contact was Tariq Williams Saab, who heads the ruling Venezuelan Revolutionary Movementâs International Relations Committee. He is also suspected to be involved in the Sept. 11 attacks.
Thatâs a new name for me. If he was in on 9/11 and Chavez is protecting him, then he needs to fry, end of story.
Saab is said to have met with two members of the Irish Republican Army who visited the country en route to Colombia where they were held in 2001 for their links with left-wing rebel groups in that country.
No clue how to judge the veracity of this, but if itâs true itâs pretty damning.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/10/2003 8:29:04 PM ||
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The anti-Chevez guys have brought up his Al Queda sympathies several times - during the strikes especially. I think they were trying to gode us in. It will be interesting to see what the actual official records show after Chavez's opponets remove him
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 22:28 Comments ||
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That was my thought as well until US News and World report had a story a week ago that basically said that the US confirmed everything the folks over at websites like Militares Democraticos have been saying.
I don't know what to believe on that one, but if it's true then he definitely needs to pay in spades.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/10/2003 22:37 Comments ||
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And here the U.S. lies.... flat on its back, spread eagle with an wide open southern border....
LEBANESE COMPLAIN: ISRAELI SOLDIERS STATIONED AT THE BORDER, MALE AND FEMALE ALIKE, MOON US. THE PLACE HAS TURNED INTO A NUDITY CLUB. (AL-SHARQ AL-AWSAT, LONDON, 10/10/03)
#3
But it's ok with these crybabies that the Hezbollah terror gang lines the border with billboards taunting the Israelis with gruesome images of mutilated Israeli soldiers.
No wonder the Lebbies are the butt of jokes.
(2003-10-09) -- Yasser Arafat, chairman of the Palestinian Authority (PA), today blocked an effort to put a âRecall Arafatâ referendum on the ballot. Supporters of the recall say they will appeal the decision to Mr. Arafat, and if necessary will pursue their appeal all the way up to Yasser Arafat himself.
The decision comes during a day when another hand-picked Palestinian Prime Minister has said he wants to quit because of disagreements with Mr. Arafat about dismantling terrorist groups operating under the protection of the PA.
"This recall effort was unconstitutional," said Mr. Arafat. "Today I have restored stability to our government. I have consulted with every important Palestinian leader, and I can confidently report that I approve of my decision completely."
Allegations of sexual misconduct and Nazi sympathies dogged Arnold Schwarzenegger in the final days of Californiaâs gubernatorial recall election.
Most people weren't surprised. Movie star = either grabbing babes or being a homosexual, and since he's a Publican the Dems wouldn't go for that. And he does have a bit of an accent, he's gotta be a Nazi, right? Otherwise he wouldn't have run against a Democrat...
But, supporters of Schwarzenegger, the man who is now governor-elect, say an examination of several stories that appeared in the Los Angeles Times reveals that the paperâs claims were not based on verifiable facts. No! Thats unpossible!
"In the final week, the Los Angeles Times showed deliberate extreame bias poor judgment in publishing allegations against Arnold that could not be substantiated," said Karen Hanretty, a Schwarzenegger spokeswoman. The Los Angeles Times said it "corroborated" its stories that Schwarzenegger groped or humiliated more than a dozen women over a nearly 30-year period. But in no case did an eyewitness substantiate for the Times any of the tales despite the fact that the alleged incidents took place while hundreds of crew members on movie sets were present.
I might also add that most men with an active libido who're single â I don't think he's been married for 30 years yet â will have at least the opportunity to grope or humiliate some woman and be groped and humiliated in their turn. Add in the fact that his body makes some women's pantyhose roll up and down like window shades, and it's a wonder the Times only found a dozen or so.
As for the important "second source" news organizations often require on sensitive stories, the Times usually used a friend or relative who heard about the incidents afterward from the alleged victims. This is why courts dont allow Heresay.
A former Times editor defended the practice. "Anonymous sourcing pervades press coverage of things. It is not ideal. The Times made a decision to make unproven alligations judgment. I would support that judgment," said Bob Berger. Then his lips fell off...
In the closing days before the election, the Los Angeles Times wrote several accusatory stories. On the Thursday before the Oct. 7 election, the newspaper filled the news cycle with a story that headlined "Women Say Schwarzenegger Groped, Humiliated Them." The story included six women, two of whom agreed to be identified. One incident that allegedly occurred in 2000 wasnât actually news. The account appeared in a magazine and the only witness to the alleged encounter said it wasnât true. Translation: The LA Times knew it was a lie and printed it anyway.
Another woman in the story said she was grabbed by Schwarzenegger while working as a secretary in an office. Three people were said to have seen the incident but none was quoted. The victim also refused to identify one witness and instead told the paper to get verification from a friend who had heard about the incident from the supposed victim. You can ask my friend here. She wasnât actually there but I briefed her on what to say happened.
On Friday, the Los Angeles Times ran another story titled "Radio Host Tells of Incident With Actor." The titillating details described by the woman whom the Times said allegedly had her leg "fondled" by Schwarzenegger revealed that their thighs actually touched hers and he brushed her ankle 30 years ago. If that is âfondlingâ then we are all in big trouble.
When Saturdayâs paper ran with the story "Three More Women Allege Misconduct," the Times ran a story from a woman who claimed Schwarzenegger pulled her into his bed on a movie set but did not grope her and let her walk away. The paper provided as substantiation her ex-boyfriendâs testimony that he had heard about the story 22 years ago. Oh yes. She briefed me on this yesterday twenty two years ago and I remember it perfectly!
By Sunday, the Times reduced its headline to "Conan the Vulgarian," and on Monday republished its prior allegations. On election day, the Times ran a story about a stunt double who said Schwarzenegger pulled up her shirt, took pictures and touched her breasts. Two eyewitnesses, however, said the story wasnât true.
Was that one the hooker? I've lost track...
While the allegations swirled about Schwarzeneggerâs behavior toward women, at the same time the Los Angeles Times ran a story with a headline that read: "Schwarzenegger Admired Hitler," suggesting that the candidate held in high regard the Nazi leader and perhaps most hated man in the 20th century. Even after the editors were made aware that the story was inaccurate, the Los Angeles Times perpetuated the allegation by quoting Schwarzenegger opponents Now that is a unbiased source
who repeated six times the allegation that Schwarzenegger admired Adolf Hitler. As originally published, the quote said, "I admire Hitler for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it ... like Kennedy had, you know, to speak to maybe 50,000 people at one time and having them cheer, or like Hitler in the Nuremberg stadium. And have all those people scream at you and just being in total agreement with whatever you say," he said. The man who supplied the quote said Schwarzenegger never displayed any anti-Semitic behavior and actually told him that he "did not admire what [Hitler] did with it." Buried inside the Times story is the conclusion that "taken in context the statement about Hitler simply reflects a young manâs fascination with power." Critics of the paper, including Jewish leaders and members of the media, said not only was the story inaccurate, it was a hatchet job. The LA Times doing a hatchet job? Unpossible!
There is "no reason Schwarzenegger had to endure that. I think it goes beyond the pale. And you know they had to withdraw that almost immediately, but the damage was done," said Joel Kotkin, a former New York Times columnist and Washington Post reporter.
Which was the whole intent...
Kotkin said the problem is that the quote is inconsistent with Schwarzeneggerâs actions, including his support for the Simon Wiesenthal Center, an international Jewish human rights group dedicated to preserving the memory of the Holocaust. Schwarzenegger has donated tens of thousands of dollars to the organization. Also something the Times forgot to mention.....
Fox News contacted four editors of California newspapers around the state. Some supported the Times coverage, others did not, saying the sexual misconduct allegations were too old, ran too close to election day and did not meet a simple journalistic standard. Despite criticism for inaccurate and unsubstantiated depictions of Schwarzenegger, the newspaper did not quit its pursuit of the governor-elect, comparing Schwarzenegger to Hitler after the election in a column headlined "Der GropenFuhrer". Which is more accuirate - LA Times or Weekly World News?
#2
The worst thing is the LA times was very stupid. California had two years to digest the Arnold groping stories since they originally came out when Davis tried to slam Arnold out of the last elections. Arnold warned everyone Davis would start throwing mud, so when it finally came by way of the LA times Davis took the hit. The LA Times hurt themselves, and Davis, and made Arnold into a victim.
#3
Oh, Im sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the revelations of sexual impropriety was the way the LA Times showed their endorsement of a candidate.
Posted by: frank martin ||
10/10/2003 17:32 Comments ||
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Guardian West, the so-called LA Times, seems to have no problem with verifiable reports of women being blown the bits on Israeli buses, but let some bimbo yell "groper" a quarter of a century after the fact, and they muster all the sanctimonious outrage they can fake.
This reckless hypocrisy is a sign of desperation. The whole corrupt empire of left-wing pop-culture activism is teetering on the brink of collapse. I look forward to seeing their senior editors begging for change outside porn theaters, and fighting lefty ex-professors for the best spots.
EFL hattip to WND Sami Al-Arian, who is serving as his own attorney, is being held without bail in Coleman Federal Correctional Complex, Sumter County, while he awaits trial in 2005 on charges alleging he was the North American leader of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a terrorist organization.
In 2005? Y'know, we should do the same thing with the Guantanamo prisoners that the NYT and the Beebs are bitching about. Schedule their hearings for late 2006, maybe. That'll shut the ankle-biters up and meanwhile we can keep handing out giggle juice for depression...
The former University of South Florida computer science professor consistently has complained about conditions at Coleman.
"I don't like it here."
"Shut yer fudge up, boomer boy!"
"See whudda mean?"
In a motion filed Tuesday and made public Wednesday, Al-Arian renewed consistent claims that Coleman officials illegally are opening his mail outside his presence and are not allowing him to meet with and interview lawyers to discuss his case. âThey keep removing my copies of Hustler from the plastic baggies.â
Citing court directives regarding the opening of his mail, Al-Arian asks that the government be fined $1,000 for every violation. In addition to being barred from meeting with lawyers, Al- Arian alleges he was told all telephone calls with legal advisers must be approved by the Bureau of Prisons regional office in Atlanta. Make sure all his legal advice is provided in person so we can get prints and DNA from his advisors.
``At this rate, it might not be long before such approvals would require the Justice Department or the White House!ââ Al-Arian wrote. I would hope that the Justice Department is monitoring who bozo is conspiring with.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 11:02:56 AM ||
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Sumpter County... Florida's answer to Mississippi.
EFL:
Army investigators are leaning toward filing slap-on-the-wrist charges versus a Muslim chaplain at Guantanamo Bay who was investigated for espionage, a military source told the Daily News yesterday. The "handful" of minor charges against Capt. Yousef Yee could be leveled by next week and are not expected to include the more serious allegations of spying, sedition or aiding the enemy, according to the source familiar with the probe. Hummmmm
"Itâs very weak," the military source said, saying the charges are likely to be related to dereliction of duty and disobeying a general order. "Itâs nothing compared to espionage or anything like that." Really?
Yee, 35, who was raised in Springfield, N.J., and graduated from West Point, was caught up in a growing spy scandal at the ultrahigh-security Camp Delta, where about 660 AlQaeda and Taliban suspects are being held. The chaplain was collared by suspicious Customs Service inspectors at the Jacksonville, Fla., Naval Air Station on Sept. 10. Diagrams of cells and names of detainees and their interrogators were allegedly found in Yeeâs luggage, law enforcement sources said. Officials at the Armyâs Southern Command, which oversees the Yee probe led by counterintelligence agents, declined to comment yesterday. Ok, either the charges against him were overblown by the press, heâs cut a deal, the PC crowd is forcing a coverup, or all of the above.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 10:59:42 AM ||
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Dereliction of duty and disobeying a general order -- "weak?" Compared to murder...perhaps. Compared to other so-called "high-profile" offenses the press has latched onto....not even (e.g., the fraternization cases; the admiral wore an unauthorized ribbon; etc.). Last time I looked, our armed forces were fighting a war (albeit anew kind of one)...but a war nonetheless. Imam Yee shouldn't get off that easy.
Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat has failed to return to full duties because of what Palestinian sources term a debilitating stomach ailment. A semi packed with cases of Depends was seen being off-loaded in front of the PA compound.Arafat continues to terrorize function only part-time as his aides have cancelled most meetings with officials and visiting dignitaries. Lucky them
The sources said the PA chairman has been unable to return to his full duties despite a clean bill of health from a Jordanian medical team that examined him nearly two weeks ago. On Wednesday, an Egyptian and Jordanian medical team arrived in Ramallah to examine Arafat. Palestinian sources said the team included a cardiologist and other specialists. A Lebanese proctologist declared him complete
PA officials have denied reports that Arafat suffered a mild heart attack despite the severe chest pains, shortness of breath, and cold sweats in late September.
They said the chairman has been suffering from syphillis gastritis, or inflammation of the stomach. As a result, officials said, Arafat suffers from nausea and has hardly eaten for nearly a week. Arafat, an official said, has lost eight kilograms over the last two weeks. The official said the PA chairmanâs condition has been exacerbated by anxiety that include fears that he has been targeted for assassination by Israel. Ya think?????
The Jordanian team was summoned on Sept. 29 to run a series of tests on Arafat. The EEG came back negative. No activity.
The officials said the chairman had been alarmed over his deteriorating condition and suspected that he might have been poisoned. We could only be so lucky.
"I am not dead, dammit!"
"Shuddup! Get back on that slab!"
Posted by: TerrorHunter4Ever ||
10/10/2003 10:59:07 AM ||
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Failed to return to full duties??
It doesn't take much effort to order/approve a suicide/murder operation.
#2
His fingers aren't sticky enough yet to resume counting the graft from the "humanitarian aid" money. They're hoping he'll be back good as new by the beginning of next week.
"...one for the camps, two for me. One for the camps, two for me..."
#3
He's a dummy. He will die in that @#$% of his when he has as much money stashed as Howard Hughs. He should let the Jews eject him and slip over to Lybia and build an African version of Vegas.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 14:49 Comments ||
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Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat attended Muslim prayers at his West Bank headquarters on Friday, repeatedly kneeling and getting to his feet without help and looking stronger after what doctors said was a bout of stomach problems. At first the doctors thought it was an intestinal blockage, but with Yasser, how could you tell?
In appearances earlier this week, Arafat, 74, was pale and haggard, and seemed unusually disoriented. This set off speculation, denied by his doctors fearful for their lives, that he was suffering from a serious illness. On Friday, Arafat sat in the first row of thug buddies worshippers at a makeshift mosque in his West Bank headquarters. He was still pale but looked stronger, and his lower lip did not tremble, as it often does when he appears especially demented tired. As required in Muslim prayers, Arafat repeatedly knelt on the carpet and got up again, without assistance. In his earlier appearances, he had held the hand of ex-lovers aides as he walked down the entrance steps of his compound to address reporters. Jordanian and Egyptian specialists have examined Arafat in the past two weeks. His personal physician, Dr. Ashraf al-Kurdi, a neurosurgeon, said he suffered from acute gastroenteritis and chronic dementia but was recovering. Aides fearful for their lives have denied rumors that Arafat was seriously ill. An Arafat confidant, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Egyptian doctors have brought medical equipment with them and have set up a mini mortuary hospital in the compound. "Moshe! Turn the Death Ray⢠up to â5â."
"Cheez, David, thatâs pretty high!"
"I have a feeling weâll have to dial it higher yet."
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/10/2003 9:09:32 AM ||
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Sounds like The Death Ray may be down for maintenance...
Another country going down the tubes with very few people paying attention. EFL:
A Brazilian man who gave evidence to a United Nations human rights commission visiting Brazil has been shot dead. Gerson Jesus Bispo was the second person to be killed after speaking to UN envoy Asma Jahangir about alleged death squads, murder and torture by police. Human rights groups say the two men were killed in retribution for talking to the envoy, who has been outspoken about the situation in Brazil. Some of the countryâs most senior judges have responded angrily to her suggestion that the United Nations should offer advice on reforming the countryâs legal system. I guess they feel the same way about the UN we do.
Mr Bispo, 26, was on his way to work when he was shot dead by gunmen on a motorbike on Thursday in the city of Santo Antonio de Jesus, in the state of Bahia. Those damm motorcycles again.
The car mechanic had presented evidence to Mrs Jahangir about the murder of his brother last year. He said a death squad possibly linked to the police was responsible. Nilmario Miranda, head of Brazilâs federal human rights office, told reporters that Mr Bispoâs death was "an open challenge" by the death squads "to demonstrate that they are untouchable". Two weeks ago a 24-year-old, Flavio Manoel da Silva was shot dead in the state of Paraiba, also in the north-east of Brazil. Just days earlier he too had spoken about death squads to the UN envoy. Bet she doesnât get many invites to cocktail parties.
Mrs Jahangir spent three weeks in Brazil investigating summary executions and other killings allegedly carried out by police before concluding that some of the countryâs police force did continue to kill civilians with impunity. During her meeting with President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva she suggested the UN could offer recommendations to help reform Brazilâs legal system. Theyâve been so successful doing that in, er, ........
The president responded favourably but some judges view the idea as unconstitutional. One said that agreeing to an external inspection would put Brazil in the same position as Iraq. He said the country would be then a republic subjected to international control. Mrs Jahangir is now preparing a report on her visit. Itâs what the UN does best, preparing reports. Then theyâll discuss it for a couple of years before they release a statement.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 8:58:28 AM ||
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Gerson Jesus Bispo was the second person to be killed after speaking to UN envoy Asma Jahangir about alleged death squads, murder and torture by police.
Usually the death squads are more politically astute than this. Then again, they know that the UN is powerless.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/10/2003 9:01 Comments ||
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#2
What is the UN doing poking around in Brazil? I thought they were hot on stopping spankings in Canada.
Notice how the unarmed civilian got shot by the armed assailant - possibly a government employee.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 10:50 Comments ||
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#4
Oh, UN peacekeepers would not always stand by idle. If they entered Israel, they'd make sure the Palis got to load the Jews onto trains to death camps in some semblance of orderâ¦
EFL:
Former President Charles Taylor is still trying "to influence events" in Liberia, the United Nations has said. Mr Taylor went into exile in Nigeria in August as part of a peace deal which is due to lead to the creation of a power-sharing government on Tuesday. With the resumsion of fighting soon thereafter.
"Any interference from Mr Taylor could threaten the carefully constructed peace agreement," the UN Security Council warned.
He has been indicted for war crimes by a UN-backed court in Sierra Leone. He is alleged to have backed the RUF rebels who killed and mutilated many thousands during that countryâs brutal 10-year conflict. I guess the people he killed in Liberia donât count.
Nigeria does not have an extradition agreement with Sierra Leone but offered Mr Taylor exile in the south-eastern city of Calabar on condition that he stayed out of Liberian politics.
But as he left Liberia, he said: "God willing, I will be back." Be careful about taking his name in vain.
The UN said he needed to be kept on a tighter rein. "We think that his activities need to be curbed so that he does not remain in political contact with his former supporters," said US ambassador John Negroponte, the Security Council president for October. "So I think itâs very important that he observes the terms of his having left Liberia and that he respects the commitment that he undertook not to pursue political activities from outside the country," he said. You expect him to keep his commitments?
Mr Taylorâs ally Moses Blah is due to hand over power to neutral businessman Gyude Bryant as the head of an administration comprising two rebels groups, Taylor loyalists and civilian opposition parties on 14 October. Yeah, thatâs gonna work.
The worldâs biggest peacekeeping operation is being sent to Liberia, but they have not yet ventured outside the relative calm of the capital, Monrovia, which has been declared a "weapons-free zone". Vehicles and commuters are being searched to ensure that no arms are taken into Monrovia. And what about all the weapons already there?
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 8:44:13 AM ||
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Paging Mr. Clark and Mr. Chavez, paging Mr. Clark and Mr. Chavez ...
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/10/2003 8:54 Comments ||
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glad our Marines are out of there again - it's gonna spiral down again
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/10/2003 10:09 Comments ||
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#3
I recommend a particular tool that will be most helpful in keeping a tigher rein on Chuck. It's called a noose.
Why would the world's biggest peace-keeping operation be necessary in Liberia? Aren't there more dead in in the DCR?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 10:37 Comments ||
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JPost Reg Reqâd - update to yesterdayâs post
Army forces trying to demolish Palestinian weapons-smuggling tunnels fought Palestinian gunmen for hours Friday in the largest army raid in half a year in the Rafah "refugee camp", a frequent battlefield. Four Palestinians were killed and 38 wounded, and a soldier was also hurt. wounded in Rafah = dead 2 days later
The raid, which began around midnight Thursday, was part of stepped-up military activity in response to last weekendâs suicide bombing that killed 20 Israelis in a restaurant in the port city of Haifa. Media reports said the operation could last several days. The Rafah raid was aimed at uncovering weapons-smuggling tunnels. Armored vehicles and attack helicopters swept into the camp on Gazaâs border with Egypt, joined by special forces, including engineering units with dogs trained to find tunnels. Gun battles erupted between soldiers and Palestinian gunmen and continued until after daybreak Friday. Palestinians said four Palestinians, including a teenager, were killed and 38 people wounded by Israeli fire. Most of the casualties were caused when a helicopter fired a missile at a crowd. The military said the missile targeted a group of gunmen. A soldier was also lightly wounded in the fighting.
Also known as a "crowd" of gunmen...
Dr. Ali Mousa, director of Rafahâs small Najar Hospital, said women and children were among the wounded, but that he did not have an exact breakdown yet of armed men and civilians. well, they shouldnât have been shooting, right?
Mousa said his hospital was overwhelmed by the large numbers of casualties. He said many of the wounded required surgery, but that he has only one operating room and did not have enough medicine and other supplies. "because we spend all our money on bombs, rockets, and that pig in Paris - Suha"
Normally, serious cases are sent to hospitals in other towns, but those patients could not be transferred because of the Israeli travel restrictions, he said. The army bulldozed three houses it said gunmen were firing from near the border. Thunderous explosions could be heard. The military said Palestinians hurled hand grenades and fired anti-tank missiles at the forces. The army positioned snipers on rooftops and fired a tank shell at an electricity transformer, plunging the camp into darkness. Because of the heavy fighting, the military was not able to begin searching for smuggling tunnels until after daybreak and had not yet found any, the army said. Military officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Israel had intelligence warnings that Palestinians were planning to use tunnels to smuggle in anti-aircraft missiles - weapons that could have a strategic impact on the three-year conflict. They said Palestinians were trying to get shoulder-held Stinger missiles good call Fred
that could shoot down attack helicopters Israel often uses in Gaza, and could also threaten Israeli warplanes or civilian aircraft flying close to the coastal strip. Also, they said, the Palestinians were trying to smuggle Katyusha rockets, which would have the range to hit Israeli cities near Gaza. During the conflict, the Palestinians have been aiming homemade mortars and rockets at Israeli towns and settlements. So far this year, the military said it has destroyed 33 smuggling tunnels in the area. The tunnels have been used to bring in munitions and rifles, as well as drugs.
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/10/2003 8:30:30 AM ||
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Every time people talk about what hellholes the Paleo refugee camps are, they should be told about all these tunnels. See how industrious the Paleos can be when they set their minds to something?
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/10/2003 9:11 Comments ||
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#2
fired a tank shell at an electricity transformer
I'd have paid to see that.
And... Is there any chance that "Stinger" is getting to be like "Tank" or "Assault Rifle"?
Hell these are likely old SA-7s passed off as "Stingers"
#3
There must be technology to detect the presence of tunnels from above ground. I'm sure the Israelis have developed some application. Maybe the Israelis will let us borrow it for a couple of weeks. It would be awful nice to collapse all the tunnels in the DMZ on top of the NK infiltrators.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 12:53 Comments ||
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#4
The Paleos are not happy unless they are burrowing.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/10/2003 14:14 Comments ||
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#5
The Paleos are not happy unless they are burrowing.
If Palestinian terrorists are more happy underground, I'm sure the IDF could arrange that....
Iranian lawyer Shirin Ebadi has won the Nobel Peace Prize for her work in defending human rights and promoting democracy. Sounds like a good choice and will certainly embarrass Iran so it canât be bad. A boost for the democracy movement in Iran and hopefully a nail in the mullah coffin.
The Norwegian Nobel Committee praised Ebadi, Iranâs first woman judge before the Islamic revolution forced her to step down, for work focused on the rights of women and children. She won from a record field of 165 candidates including Pope John Paul and former Czech President Vaclav Havel. The Cuban dissident Paya would have deserved it as well.
The Nobel prize is worth 10 million Swedish crowns and will be handed out in Oslo on December 10. Ebadi is only the 11th woman to win since the prize was set up in 1901. Will Iran insist on her wearing a hijab?
Posted by: True German Ally ||
10/10/2003 5:12:41 AM ||
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#1
Sounds good to me. I still think they should've given it to Rumsfeld or Tommy Franks for defeating tyranny in Iraq and Afghanistan but you can't always have your way.
At least they didn't give it to the Pope for disgracefully protecting Saddam and praying with Tariq Aziz opposing the Iraq war. Not that we forget the Pope's brave stance against the Commies 10 years ago. but those were his people. Too bad his thinking is muddled when it comes to non-Catholics. After Jimmy Carter, that would've made 2 anti-AmericanBush appointments in a row.
Maybe they're trying to salvage what little remains of the award's credibility. Jimmy Carter has achieved exactly zero, probably a lot less. Kim Dae Jung is a corrupt appeaser. I suppose he was a plausible choice at the time of the award. But now that they know that he secretly bribed the Norks to get them to the peace table with hundreds of millions of taxpayer won and in light of all that has happened, it should be revoked. Stick that award where the Sunshine Policy don't shine, Kim. Way to bilk your own people in order to pay the man responsible for starving or enslaving millions of your fellow Koreans so that he can develop a nuclear bomb that will spark an arms race across Asia and wind up in the hands of Islamic terrorists. Yasser Arafat is Yasser Arafat and if they were stupid enough to award him a peace prize, then it's his to keep and all future winners will have to deal with the taint.
Any others?
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
10/10/2003 6:11 Comments ||
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Maybe not the best choice, but a good one; Ebadi is one courageous lady.
Wonder if the Nobel committee is trying to make up for last year's colossal error of awarding the prize to (LGF Idiotarian of the Year) Jimmy Peanut?
Posted by: Mike ||
10/10/2003 6:44 Comments ||
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#3
I forgot Rigoberta Menchu! Her of the fraudulent autobiography.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
10/10/2003 7:06 Comments ||
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Re:Rummy:
Under the terms of the will,the Nobel Foundation can not give the prize for winning a war,no matter how beneficial to humanity.Considering the circumstances,pretty good.
Posted by: El Id ||
10/10/2003 7:17 Comments ||
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#5
"Under the terms of the will,the Nobel Foundation can not give the prize for winning a war,no matter how beneficial to humanity."
So it's not open to those who have the temerity to successfully defend themselves or their principles in the face of military aggression? Good thing for him Yasser's such a loser, or he wouldn't have won himself. That goes for Kofi, too. Seems as though many genuine peacemakers are ineligible.
Alfred Nobel - the man who invented dynamite and believed that as a weapon of mass destruction, it would lead to the end of all wars. Why didn't the Manhattan Project crew get it? What would have been the chances of him winning the Peace prize had he been eligible for his own award? It all smacks of beyond-the-grave hypocrisy to me.
#6
Oops, Maybe I should have written "And it seems as though many genuine peacemakers are ineligible". Of course Yasser and Kofi are peacemakers in the same league as Pol Pot and Joseph Chamberlain.
#7
wow, if the criteria means you have to lose wars, I'm surprised more Arabs haven't won
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/10/2003 8:12 Comments ||
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The criteria is,you have to make peace,not to wage war.Even defensive wars or wars of liberation are "out" as far as the Nobel Prize is concerned.Thus,no prize for Churchill or FDR.(Reagan should have gotten one,though).
Posted by: El Id ||
10/10/2003 8:51 Comments ||
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#9
I can applaud Ebadi's selection. Vaclav Havel also would have been a good choice.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/10/2003 8:54 Comments ||
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#10
The "Peace" prize was not Alfred Nobel's invention. He only wanted to reward scientific/engineering progress (at the time there was little difference, as most reasonable people still thought that all science ought to have practical applications). Someone else, later on, decided to add the Peace and LItter-ary prizes (I think if you check the name and value of these prizes, you'll see the difference -- as well as observing WHO chooses the recipients).
#11
At least they didn't give it to the Pope for disgracefully protecting Saddam and praying with Tariq Aziz opposing the Iraq war.
-Good point, also realize that the American Catholic church just had a rash of huge child molestation cases that many believe the Pontiff didn't do enough to either prevent, curtail, or condemn. BTW - I'm a Catholic, so if 'Not Mike Moore' is out there - don't try to give me any whining about my supposed anti-Catholic comments.
#12
I don't think I should be wasting my time thinking about this, but why does anyone pay any attention to the Nobel Peace Prize? The Nobels' life achievements probably did as much as anyone's to promote industrial warfare (Alfred's father Immanuel provided equipment to the Russian army and developed naval mines; Alfred and his brother Emil devoted their lives to researching explosives technology (amongst other things); Alfred stabilised nitroglycerine to make it a workable explosive, and owned Bofors). It seems as though Alfred's latterly 'pacifistic' outlook was in no small part influenced by his unrequited affection for a cloud-dwelling Austrian hottie named Bertha von Suttner, who, after his death was coincidentally awarded the fifth Peace prize.
Apparently you're not eligible to get the prize if you're a statesman and fight a defensive war, but you're quite eligible if you have pie-in-the-sky utopian ideas, have renounced violence after a period of murdering innocents, or are enjoying a quiet spell whilst regrouping your forces. Occasionally the prize is given to worthy recipients, but so what? Does the nobel Peace Prize actually do anything to promote peace? What did Yasser do with his 7m Swedish Krone fortune in 1994 that contributed towards the peace industry, I wonder? Anyone could hand out annual Peace Prizes to people who they consider to be peacemakers. Whom the Nobel Committee of the day consider to be peacemakers doesn't really mean anything at all.
#14
"Is Jack Northrop still alive?"
He passed away several years ago. Before he died, Northrop got special permission from DoD to bring him out to the plant and show him the then still secret plans for the B-2 Stealth bomber. B-2 is almost identical in size and shape to his old flying wing bomber of the 50's. He got to know he was ahead of his time before he died.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/10/2003 11:07 Comments ||
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#19
re Nobel - IIRC the peace prize WAS one of the original prizes, in part cause Nobel felt guilty
re:warmakers winning nobels - you can have won a war and receive a prize for OTHER actions that led to peace - didnt Rabin win for Oslo, despite having been the Israeli chief of staff during the '67 war? T. Roosevelt won for peacemaking Russo-Japanese war, despite being fierce nationalist who sent "great white fleet" around the world and having led "rough riders" during Spanish-American war. You just cant receive it FOR your war making activities.
re: Carter. Whatever else he did, he is credited with the peace between egypt and israel at Camp David, which is what he won the prize for, along with Sadat and Begin, IIRC. A peace which still stands, BTW.
#20
IMO, the fact that there were no prizes given out in the five years between 1939-43 discredits the award. The notion that in the world's entire population during that time nobody was striving for peace is unbelievably offensive. The idea that war is something you have the opportunity to 'turn down' if you're peacefully inclined is grotesque. Sweden adopted neutrality during a war that threatened civilization and was often fought with Swedish-made weapons and weapons made from Swedish steel, whilst the Nazi war machine crushed nations and engaged in genocide on her borders. And those who fought for peace were snubbed as contemptible war-wagers. It's disgusting.
Nearly two dozen investigators are searching for possible security breaches at the U.S. prison for terror suspects, officials said Thursday at the camp where espionage charges have heightened tensions. Sources familiar with the investigation said two more arrests may be imminent." Iâll take a leap of faith, and predict the new arrestees will be of the Muslim faith.
"The translators, from San Diego-based Titan Corp., arrived as officials boosted security by closely monitoring e-mail messages, asking troops to report suspicious behavior, and postponing the assignment of another Muslim chaplain." The new Muslim chaplain is already under suspicion, and he hasnât arrived yet, what are the odds.
"Both military and civilian officials acknowledge part of the problem is finding qualified linguists for Guantanamo, where about 70 translators help 200 interrogators in 17 languages." No, the real problem is finding loyal linguists.
"Levitt said if there were three security breaches at Guantanamo it represented "a colossal intelligence failure."" Wrong again. The security breaches represent a colossal policy failure. The translators and the chaplain were not singled out for extra scrutiny because the official position of the United States is that Islam is a âreligion of Peaceâ, and âreal Islam has nothing to do with terrorism."
Posted by: Sorge ||
10/10/2003 5:03:19 AM ||
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IT has been reported elsewhere that UBL has proclaimed himself a prophet. Which makes him and his ilk blasphemers and not "real muslims"
But they would be more than happy to engage in all out religious war between the West and all of Islam. Not something a lot of Muslims are looking forward to, and won't play along with as long as we don't. We make this a war against all Islam, we are playing into the terrorists hands.
It may be dishonest in some respects, but if it is required to make our job easier and our victory more achievable, its a small price to pay.
Posted by: Ben ||
10/10/2003 5:58 Comments ||
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TGA said Here is something I really can't understand: FBI: Jews need not apply for Arabic linguist jobs
I think you may explain this in two possible ways:
1. The FBI is paranoid about anything Jewish being a security risk in view of possible double allegiance to Israel or the Mossad.
2. The FBI has been already infilterated by pro-moslem elements and simply does not give a fuck about their ablity to handle the arabic translation problem. It's like sayin we (the FBI) successfully survived the 9/11 fiasco with no heads rolling - we will therefore survive any other future fiasco without much damage, and the hell with everyone else.
even if this is a very extreme portrayal of whats going on, at least you have to admit that the "religious sensitivity" training being preached to trained FBI operators suspiciously sounds like stupid democrat leftist sensitivity mumbo jumbo
3. considering the first two possibilities, I have a piece of advice for the FBI dministration: start sending some five year old american youngsters to the madrassas in pakland or sodi arabia. In 20-25 years you will surely have enough qualified arabic translators. Hopefully by that time there will be no need for them because the islamic theocratic republic of the united states will not be the enemy of any terrorist.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
10/10/2003 7:31 Comments ||
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Speaking of Islamist infiltration of the FBI, has anyone heard the fate of that agent that refused to do his duty when it involved Muslim criminals?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/10/2003 8:54 Comments ||
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#6
I put this in another post the other day but the reasoning is similar:
I'm originally from the Detroit area where not all Arabs are Muslims. There's actually a good portion of Lebanese, Syrians, Paleos, & Iraqis (known as Chaldeans in Detroit) who are Catholic/Eastern Orthodox and very anti-Sammie & anti-Muslim. My best friend growing up is Lebanese & Catholic. His family (who came over about the time Lebanon really went to shit) and many others despise the muslims and blame them for the troubles in Lebanon as well as Israel. My angle would be to try to recruit these types of folks for Interrogator-Translator (we call it IT in the Corps) duty. Most of the Christian Arabs I know are hard working, decent people just trying to get by like any of us. I don't think they're would be any loyalty issue as the big component of faith is out the window.
"but doing what you propose would be discriminatory against muslims."
-Seems to me several muslims serving in our service have already scewed it up for the rest. I'm not saying we can't still use muslims, but the problem is the Wahabbi sect picks U.S. Military Islamic clerics, I'd change that in a heart beat first of all. Second, I'm talking more about the interrogators but even if we did disguise Arab Christians as clerics to go down to Gitmo I can't think of a law against it as they're not POWs - they're enemy combatants. My point is that we're fighting a war. I'm not worried about scoring political points, I'm not worried about pissing off the PC crowd, I'm concerned w/saving American lives and killing the enemies of our country with speed and certainty.
Do you think the military would be allowed to do so?
-From a PC standpoint definitely not. CIA involvement would be more necessary. However, who says we have to reveal to the Gitmo prisoners that their "new" IT's or faux-clerics are Christians. F*ck'em they're not POWs - they're enemy combatants, we can lie and be deceitful to them as much as we want to get the info we need.
I know my logic may seem crass but this is what I think needs to be done to help handle the security leaks.
#9
The article used one Jewish Group as a sample. Unfortunately, the folks applying for positions out of that group had all operated with the IDF. I don't know that the answer to Al Q infiltration should be Mossad infiltration. In a pinch, though, you could have each infiltrator provide opposing translations and interpolate.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 12:40 Comments ||
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#10
Maybe we need Mossad translators. We are not playing pat-a-cake ya know. We need results. PC will kill us. It almost did 9-11. We are the most powerful nation in the world, yet we are stumbling around like a cave troll. Let's get with the program with good arabic translators.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/10/2003 13:40 Comments ||
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A Phoenix man was sentenced to death Thursday for murdering an Indian immigrant outside his gasoline station in an alleged hate crime just days after the September 11, 2001, attacks. Frank Roque, 44, faces death by lethal injection for gunning down Balbir Singh Sodhi, a Sikh, who wore a turban and a beard as part of his beliefs and apparently was mistaken for an Arab. Prosecutors argued that Sodhiâs murder on September 15, 2001, was fueled by racism and hate and carried out by a man with a long-time drinking problem. Defense attorneys argued that Roque was mentally ill and pushed over the edge by the attacks. The jury deliberated for six hours before sentencing Roque to death in the case, which attracted international attention in the wake of the September 11 attacks. The shooting prompted India to call on the U.S. government to take steps to prevent assaults on Sikhs living in America. Sodhi, 49, who came to the United States in 1988 from a small village in Punjab, was one of several Sikhs attacked in America after apparently being mistaken as possible supporters of Saudi-born militant Osama bin Laden, believed to be behind the September 11 attacks. Roque, who still faces sentencing on other charges stemming from two other shootings of people of Afghani and Lebanese descent on the day of the murder, becomes the 127th person on Arizonaâs death row. Better yet, why not send him to Afghanistan, or the NWFP. He wouldnât last ten minutes there.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/10/2003 3:38:26 AM ||
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Posted by: lkl ||
10/10/2003 4:08 Comments ||
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#2
Roque got what he deserved. I bet he was seething long before 9/11 and probably just snapped. I live in a town with a large Sikh community and they could give lessons on civic pride and family values. Good riddance Roque!
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/10/2003 8:29 Comments ||
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#4
"murdering an Indian immigrant outside his gasoline station in an alleged hate crime"
-I still don't care for the whole "hate crime" terminology. I'd say it's pretty obvious if someone kills anyone in cold blood - that's a hate crime. If a person is killed by someone of the same background is that a "just didn't like each other crime?". PC horse-crap.
#6
A minority that did kill Indira Ghandi and played footsies with the ISI in the bid to establish Khalistan (sp.).
Posted by: Brian ||
10/10/2003 11:11 Comments ||
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#7
lkl, please explain where India is lecturing us on our?
Jarhead, I agree 100%. Hate crimes are just doublespeak. He murderered someone, that's enough to kill him so why add the additional Hate crime. Is it worse to kill someone for stupid reasons than for money?
#8
The shooting prompted India to call on the U.S. government to take steps to prevent assaults on Sikhs living in America.
I probably worded that too strongly. I deplore this killing. Just pointing out that India hasn't done a great job of curbing violence against ethnic and religious minorities in their own country.
Posted by: lkl ||
10/10/2003 12:35 Comments ||
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#9
I am not for the death penalty, but nobody likes a hate criminal. A stupid homocidal maniac is even worse.
Don't use the lethal injection though, some kid might be able to use a kidney.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 12:45 Comments ||
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#10
Don't use the lethal injection though, some kid might be able to use a kidney.
-SH,
good point. But can we at least fire up ole' sparky?
#11
I believe the "hate crime" designation was a legal category legislated to allow the death penalty (or at least heavier penalties) in cases where it otherwise might not apply since judicial precedent has managed to remove most victim's rights from the board. Something like the old federal charges of "denying someone's civil rights" when what really happened was murder. In this case, the hate crime designation is not a PC tool but a useful mechanism for taking out the garbage.
#13
"Is it worse to kill someone for stupid reasons than for money? "
Motivation always matters in passing a sentence... I bet you that cold-blooded murder for monetary profit will be considered worse than a father murdering his daughter's rapist in a fit of rage.
Murder for reasons of hate towards an entire group causes a climate of fear for that entire group. The offense is worse because it's directed against an entire segment of the population. And it hurts society as a whole.
#14
Aris, Mercutio, well stated, I've reconsidered my blanket opposition to hate crimes legislation. I'd only considered the victim and justice for the victim and not the perp or the community.
#15
Murder for reasons of hate towards an entire group causes a climate of fear for that entire group. The offense is worse because it's directed against an entire segment of the population.
I don't get your logic, Aris. If that "entire group" that feels a climate of fear is rapists, then that's not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned. If that "entire group" is a racial or ethnic sub-population, targeted by a murderer, there's still no moral difference between the effects that that murder has on one sector of society than that which another hateful murderer, whose motivations are different, has on society as a whole. Indiscriminate murder should be punished in the same way as racially-targeted murder, and that is with extreme severity. To argue that a racially motivated murder of an innocent person is somehow more serious than a race-neutral murder is in fact racist in itself. Should a man who murders only women be sentenced more harshly than a non-sexist man who murders people of either sex equally?
BTW, did the Greek police go after November 17 with a greater sense of purpose than other murderers?
#16
As a supervisor of UAW employees, I often get to hear about their reasons and motivations for misbehavior. That is a game that the Shop Steward encourages me to buy into.
I don't buy and hold my employees accountable for their actions. There is a lot less misbehavior that way.
In society it is better to treat the racist as a perpetrator when he perpetrates. Otherwise he gets the impression that he is part of something bigger than he is. In reality he is just a loser and should be prosecuted for the crimes he commits without glorifying his disfunction.
It is very disheartening to a clown with a speel when his cause is ignored and the judge just punches the crime into the punishment register and hands him the ticket ... and his change without acknowledgement to his swastika.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 19:58 Comments ||
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#17
"Motivation always matters in passing a sentence... I bet you that cold-blooded murder for monetary profit will be considered worse than a father murdering his daughter's rapist in a fit of rage."
-Of course in this situation you're right. However, most clear thinking people know the difference between a pre-meditated cold-blooded murder of a total stranger and a "crime of passion" for revenge. For instance, if a woman comes home and finds her husband in bed w/another woman of a different background and she shoots her - is that a hate crime or a crime of passion? Or say she waits a week and then kills her husband's other woman - that's probably 1st degree murder in anyone's book but is it a hate crime? I'd say most people look at the circumstances and you shouldn't need some "hate crime" legislation to take out the garbage. Roque killed an innocent human being for no reason. He deserves to get the chair imho. But say he kills another white guy for no other reason then for shitz & giggles - should he get less of a sentence? Hell no. Therefore the whole "hate crime" tool doesn't wash w/me. Cold blooded murder is cold blooded murder.
#18
re hate crimes: the real reason for hate crimes legislation is not for murders - murder is murder and should be treated seriously whatever the motive. The only real rationale for hate crimes laws is with respect to relatively minor crimes like vandalism - painting "i hate black people" on a black church is serious in a way that painting "i was here" on a railroad bridge is not. The damage to property is minor in both cases - the fear spread by the former MAY be significant, while that spread by the latter is not.
#19
When you call vandalism a hate crime, the number one result is publicity - the exact goal of the moronic racist monkey-spanking skinhead that is responsible.
Don't show pictures in the news. Catch the little bastard, dress him in an orange jumpsuit, and make him pick-up highway trash in the hot sun while his friends moon him.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 22:11 Comments ||
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Amnesty International, Oxfam and an anti-weapons group have launched a campaign against the global arms trade. The agencies say AK-47 assault rifles have replaced spears for Ugandan farmers and they say weapons are so common in Somalia, that some children are named âUziâ or âAK.â Personally I like âBushmasterâ or the old fashioned âSmithâ, or âWessonâ
They say the U.S.-led war on terrorism, launched after Sept. 11, has fuelled weapons proliferation. Ha ha. They had to mention Sept 11, WOT, and the US (the root of all evil of course)
"Governments, preoccupied with a search for nuclear, biological and chemical weapons in their fight against âterrorismâ, have essentially ignored the real âweapons of mass destructionâ - small arms. So they continue to proliferate, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives," said Rebecca Peters, Director of the International Action Network on Small Arms. In a report issued by the groups, they make the claim that increasing numbers of arms are being exported especially by the United States and Britain. Hey, thatâs like saying an increasing number of people are buying them.
It says more than 630 million small arms are in circulation around the world. The agencies are calling for an international arms treaty.
Small arms are not, by definition, weapons of mass destruction. I keep saying this, but none of the goobers making these ridiculous statements seems to notice. WMDs are specifically chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. Anything else doesn't fit into the category. The fact that Rebecca doesn't like them doesn't change that.
And why are we and the Brits exporting all those AKs? Stop that this instant!
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/10/2003 2:58:49 AM ||
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Oops. This story was already posted yesterday (and I thought I checked too). Webmaster, work your magic please, thx.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/10/2003 3:58 Comments ||
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#2
Bushmaster Bradley.... nows that's a good Merkin name.
#3
Obviouslly these peope never watch History Chanell,s"History of the Gun".
Blaming Americadoesn't explain why the moste widely owned weapon in the world is the AK-47.
I'm partisl to Ruger myself.
#6
It is intersting if you think about it. Apparantly the dastardly US not only supplied Soviet (and their allies) built weapons around the world but we sent them primarily to Soviet client states and to rebels working against American clients. What a tangled web we weave.
#9
If guns were outlawed we would be going to the sporting goods store and buying crossbows or throwing cups of bleach into their eyes. Those that refuse to be victims will find other weapons.
#11
My dad used to tell a story about a black Army private during WWII that used to sneak across the lines at night and come back the next morning with one or more German soldier's ears. Weapon of choice? Straight razor.
There are no such thing as dangerous weapons, only dangerous men.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/10/2003 16:35 Comments ||
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#12
Old Patriot makes a good point.
By his bed my dad keeps a two foot long maglight that I gave him for his birthday. He is past 65 years old, but played middle guard for the New York Titans of the old AFL. He is 6'4" tall and 400 lb (1.9 meters and 10 Kg) He used to be able to cover 40 meters in 5.0 seconds - haven't times him recently.
He has no gun, but don't rob his house unless you come armed like Alaska Paul, when he takes a stroll through bear country.
He was burglarized once while he was out of town and didn't take it well.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/10/2003 22:20 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
