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| -Short Attention Span Theater- |
| Army halts deliveries of Apache attack helicopters over sacked factory employee's 'improper records for critical safety items' - in latest blow to hit Boeing |
| 2020-10-17 |
| Posted by:Skidmark |
| #10 Yes, thank you. |
| Posted by: swksvolFF 2020-10-17 20:07 |
| #9 Nice back and forth - I respect you both |
| Posted by: Frank G 2020-10-17 18:58 |
| #8 49Pan, No apologies necessary, sir. We ever meet, the drinks are on me. Mike |
| Posted by: Mike Kozlowski 2020-10-17 18:18 |
| #7 Mike, My apologies for coming on so strong. I sit and watch a propaganda attack on Boeing and I cringe. I did not mean to hammer you. Sorry. So the 737 has some history here as well. The MAX has engines that will take the aircraft off at max gross weight with just one engine. This creates a thrust vector issue on take off. The engineers can explain water line and thrust vectors better than me. The flight control system is complex, its a graduate level aircraft and the system is rather new in design and philosophy, automated system over rides control management. When there is an error in the automated system, the emergency procedure is to shut it off and leave it off. A two button process. In both crashes the crew cycled the switches, IE shut it off and turned them back on during recovery. With the system faults, the automated system does not knw where it is, and the problem is exacerbated. Thus making it incontrollable to recover. The second crew had a pilot in the cabin that had less than 200 hours total time as a pilot. He's not qualified to fly a Cessna let alone a complex jet liner. The crash investigation was managed by EASA, the EU version of the FAA. They did not include Boeing or the FAA in the investigation, first time in history a ruling body excludes the OEM or FAA. EASA sent the flight data recorder to EADS for analysis, not Boeing or the FAA. EADS owns the Airbus, the 737 MAX's only competitor. All of Boeings proprietary flight control data was compromised. A couple of small facts here. A year before the accident, at the Dubai air show, the orders for Airbus aircraft were cancelled and given to the 737MAX, thus closing the Airbus line. EADS, and Airbus are owned by the EU, the governing body is EASA. No ethical issue here. The EU is playing this crash against Boeing for business purposes. The fixes that they have forced in are not all that great. the instrumentation, what the pilot sees, and the automated systems are now tied to each other. One fails, they both fail. Not an issue if the weather is VFR. Not good if they are in the clouds. The carriers know this, Alaska just announce they are pure fleeting their fleet with Boeing, as did Southwest. There is always more to it. The details around the Boeing Mesa issue will come out after they prosecute the individual. Again Mike, my apologies sir. |
| Posted by: 49 Pan 2020-10-17 17:29 |
| #6 That is what I love about Rantburg - people are willing to *listen* and learn. Rantburg U! |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2020-10-17 15:23 |
| #5 Splendid Mike and 49Pan. This is why Rantburg is so different. |
| Posted by: Dale 2020-10-17 14:31 |
| #4 #3 Mike, that's slander. The Boeing Mesa site trashed most, if not all of the MD quality processes. Having worked for both, and I walk the production line daily, I have to tell you that Boeings quality at Boeing Mesa is pretty good. It has the same issues as the rest of the industry. This quality issue was tantamount to sabotage by neglect. Boeing discovered it, self disclosed it, and legal actions are being perused. The Apache is one of the safest rotary wing aircraft in DOD. Posted by: 49 Pan 2020-10-17 10:06 49Pan, Sir, you have personal knowledge of what happened, then I sincerely apologize to you and your coworkers. If you tell me that this was self-discovered/disclosed and corrected, that is good enough for me and is enough to make me rethink my opinion of Boeing. Mike |
| Posted by: Mike Kozlowski 2020-10-17 11:25 |
| #3 Mike, that's slander. The Boeing Mesa site trashed most, if not all of the MD quality processes. Having worked for both, and I walk the production line daily, I have to tell you that Boeings quality at Boeing Mesa is pretty good. It has the same issues as the rest of the industry. This quality issue was tantamount to sabotage by neglect. Boeing discovered it, self disclosed it, and legal actions are being perused. The Apache is one of the safest rotary wing aircraft in DOD. |
| Posted by: 49 Pan 2020-10-17 10:06 |
| #2 After the 737Max abomination, BA C-Suite should all hang. |
| Posted by: Clem 2020-10-17 09:11 |
| #1 ...The Boeing/MDD 'merger' was so badly botched by Boeing that MDD people - who had already screwed up one of the great names in aviation - ended up taking over the new company. Since then, Boeing's primary aim has not been the manufacture of the best possible airframes for its customers, but the maximization of profits and bonuses for the leadership. This isn't going to end well - Boeing may not be able to pull out of the spin; the move to Charleston will buy them some time, but not a lot. They won't be allowed to fail as they make far too much for the DOD (#2 defense contractor last year) but perhaps this once, somebody should insist that the military side of the house be spun off into a separate company and the airliner side be allowed to sink or swim on its own. Remember the old saying - perhaps your purpose in life is to be an object lesson to others. Mike |
| Posted by: Mike Kozlowski 2020-10-17 08:11 |