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| Britain |
| Royal Marines chiefs spark fury by offering £10,000 'golden hello' payments to former Commandos to rejoin |
| 2019-12-29 |
| Posted by:Skidmark |
| #15 What I'm talking about is men who would not fight unless they were paid. You have a crude and simplistic understanding of human intent. That a recruitment bonus increases the likelihood that any random individual will sign up is not the same as saying that said bonus is dispositive in the decision to sign up. Human motivation is complex. A professional soldier's motivation is nearly always a complex mixture of a desire to serve and an attraction to the particular features and benefits of the military way of life. That a volunteer army needs to consider the opportunity cost, ie the civilian opportunities available to the potential recruit, is not controversial in the slightest. Face it herb, you can't have it both ways. You can't have effective fighting unit AND an unmotivated, shit-wage conscript army AND a non-ideological, non-fanatical, non-militaristic society. You want Spartans? In the modern age, this means you'll get soldiers who have no concept of duty that is unconnected to ideological fanaticism. In short, you'll get Nazis. Our mix of motives-- service, duty, connection to our heritage and values along with a desire for some of the benefits of a wealthy, advanced economy-- is an excellent balance. It does no one any good to go to an absurd extreme and characterize this careful equipoise as MeRCeNAriES!!! |
| Posted by: Lex 2019-12-29 23:44 |
| #14 Yes I'm aware this is about the British. "A mercenary would not even consider signing up and fighting were it not for the amount and the terms of the compensation." So these soldiers wouldn't sign up to fight unless they had the giant bonus. You know you're arguing against yourself here? And losing? They can't get former Commandos to rejoin, so they have to pay them large sums of money. I'll admit this is not the condottiere style mercenary, but it is clearly paying men to fight. I see you have this definition of mercenary in your brain, with the UCMJ and such. It makes you very angry because saying that soldiers are mercenaries violates your sacred values. I get it. That's not what I'm talking about. You may use another word instead of mercenary if you wish. What I'm talking about is men who would not fight unless they were paid. You may call it recruitment bonuses, but the fact remains that if the money wasn't there these men would stay home and the military wouldn't have men to fight its wars overseas. This is perhaps a new situation in the world, and our existing vocabulary doesn't cover it. I understand why you got angry...but the world changes. Perhaps we can use this thread to crowdsource a neologism for this concept? "A mercenary does not fight to defend the US or any other Constitution." So how is fighting in Syria or Niger or Philippines defending the US? It's not. It has nothing to do with us. It's that World Police bullshit that costs us a fortune and gains us nothing but dead Americans and many more Americans maimed for life, either physically or mentally. And what's that "any other Constitution" you slipped in there? That stinks of globalism. Point to where in the US Constitution it says we fight for other countries. Fuck that noise. US soldiers fight to defend America. America First! |
| Posted by: Herb McCoy 2019-12-29 23:36 |
| #13 "A professional soldier is simply a mercenary in the service of his own country" |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-12-29 22:57 |
| #12 (no offense, but you struck a nerve... I just sent this article about a certain battle against mercenaries 243 years ago to one I care about more than life itself. These men were NOT mercenaries. The Hessians they killed were indeed mercenaries.) |
| Posted by: Lex 2019-12-29 21:52 |
| #11 There is zero in the way of legal or other similarity between a professional soldier and a mercenary. A mercenary is not subject to the UCMJ. A mercenary does not fight to defend the US or any other Constitution. A mercenary is employed at will and has no rights of any sort; neither does he consider himself bound by the laws of any nation. He is a free agent in the truest sense of the word-- free of any code of honor or ethics or loyalty to any civilized polity. The mercenary is EXACTLY the image of what this nation's revolutionary soldiers fought against 240 years ago, and what our professional military resists becoming today. Please take your facile equivalence elsewhere, Mr McC. |
| Posted by: Lex 2019-12-29 21:49 |
| #10 Ref #2: How is this not a mercenary army? Posted by Herb McCoy It's a recruitment incentive for a man to 'sign on' wear the uniform of the Royal Marines. There's a huge and sometimes quite ugly difference. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2019-12-29 21:48 |
| #9 they have been offering sign up bonuses for along time big deal |
| Posted by: Chris 2019-12-29 21:44 |
| #8 *extremely WELL paid-- a reflection of the fundamentally commercial ethos that defines their employment. |
| Posted by: Lex 2019-12-29 21:35 |
| #7 When you have to offer monetary inducements for men to fight, that's a mercenary. No it isn't. A mercenary would not even consider signing up and fighting were it not for the amount and the terms of the compensation. Mercenaries are extremely we paid. Their rate is set by the market. Their ethos is no different from that of a paid placement agent or salesman. Pay to play. An enlistment bonus is nothing more than consideration for sacrifice of a soldier. It has no bearing on whether the soldier will fight - of course he will. A mercenary will cease fighting the instant he says a disruption in his pay. He is, literally, "coin-operated." |
| Posted by: Lex 2019-12-29 21:35 |
| #6 Do note that it’s not our Marines, Mr. McCoy, but the Brits. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2019-12-29 21:04 |
| #5 This is literally bribing troops to sign up. I'm all for the US military being for our national defense. That's what our soldiers sign up for. I am NOT for the US military being used to overthrow governments in Syria or fight barbarians in Niger or Philippines. Those are NOT defending America. When you have to offer monetary inducements for men to fight, that's a mercenary. |
| Posted by: Herb McCoy 2019-12-29 21:01 |
| #4 One feels compelled to note that this is the British Marines, not the Americans. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2019-12-29 20:37 |
| #3 ...we pay bonuses for skill shortage. It's varies with supply and demand. Sometimes special ops, sometimes doctors. It's a meme of the left that our military are mercs. That's why they actually believe that when they get power and issue unconstitutional orders to grab the guns, they'll do it. It will be a nasty surprise. |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2019-12-29 18:49 |
| #2 How is this not a mercenary army? |
| Posted by: Herb McCoy 2019-12-29 18:38 |
| #1 Demand meets supply |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2019-12-29 11:56 |