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Britain
Independent Swiss Lab Says 'BZ Toxin' Used In Skripal Poisoning; US/UK-Produced, Not Russian
2018-04-15
Zero Hedge via Gates of Vienna
Remember how we were told my the politicians (not the scientists) that a deadly Novichok nerve agent - produced by Russia - was used in the attempted assassination of the Skripals? Remember the 50 questions (here and here) we had surrounding the 'facts' as Theresa May had laid them out? Ever wonder why, given how utterly deadly we were told this chemical was, the Skripals wondered around for a few hours after being 'infected' and then days later, survived with no chronic damage?

Well those doubts may well have just been answered as according to the independent Swiss state Spiez lab, the substance used on Sergei Skripal was an agent called BZ, which was never produced in Russia, but was in service in the US, UK, and other NATO states.
It's Zero Hedge of course, but...

Posted by:g(r)omgoru

#10  broken record

"How heavy the handbag (one's Browning)!
One toddles to Number 10, frowning.
May makes her salaams
And one recommends... alms...
For the bugger that keeps 'Porton Downing.'"
Posted by: Zenobia Floger6220   2018-04-15 23:35  

#9  What the Russians say here could be true. Probably not, but it is possible. The OPCW report says they know what the agent was, but they will not publish that to anyone other than the nation states who are in the organization.

If no other nation state with the info from the OPCW do not disagree with Russia, then Russia should be believed on this.

If this was BZ instead of Novichok then this is a big deal. Not because it absolves the Russians cuz they could do BZ, but because it indites the British for claiming something else.
Posted by: rammer   2018-04-15 21:56  

#8  SteveS. Thumbs up.

How do the Swiss know what Russia has produced?

Russian disinformation continues apace.
Posted by: Percy McCoy4369   2018-04-15 15:10  

#7  BZ, BZ, why does that sound familiar? A little history from NBC (no, not NukeBioChem, the disreputable news service.)

BZ GAS was developed by the United States Army at the Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland during the 1950s as a military agent. It later was believed to have capability as a crowd control agent. There are no known detectors for its presence in either indoor or outdoor environments.

Some have speculated that the Russian government used BZ gas as the incapacitating agent to end the Moscow theater siege.

Ah, Nord-Ost! That's why it sounded familiar. The Russians used some sort of anesthetic gas on a theater full of people being held hostage.

This could explain why the Skripals were not dead soon after alleged exposure to an organophosphate agent.
Posted by: SteveS   2018-04-15 12:40  

#6  The characteristic that makes BZ an incapacitating rather than a toxic chemical warfare agent is its high safety margin (ICt50/LCt50) of around 40-fold (range 32 to 384 fold).
BZ is odorless and nonirritating with delayed symptoms several hours after contact.

Iraq and Syria were rumored to have a similar product. Wikipedia
Posted by: Bobby   2018-04-15 12:05  

#5  Done quite a while ago.
Posted by: Procopius2k   2018-04-15 11:28  

#4  Proco, the US already has large quantities of BZ. Dugway, Utah, for one. Probably some at the Marshall Islands disposal facility. Also, I would imagine a smaller supply for 'reference' at Ft Deitrich, and also Ft Leonard Woods (where Chemical Corps trains).
The further point I'm curious about is, the whole 'Novichok' (newbie) agent is supposed to be a binary that combines onsite from two relatively safe precursors (the whole point).
There should be unreacted precursor traces around at site.
Where are they?
Posted by: ed in texas   2018-04-15 10:56  

#3  Where is the US manufacturing military grade nerve agents (not to be confused with Roundup et al)?
Posted by: Procopius2k   2018-04-15 08:28  

#2  Not to sound like a broken record, but the incident did take place roughly 6 kilometers from where again ?
Posted by: Besoeker   2018-04-15 06:48  

#1  I suppose Russia could make it if they wanted, or maybe some third actor is trying to create problems.
Posted by: gorb   2018-04-15 04:58  

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