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-Short Attention Span Theater-
Study: Dinosaurs May Have Been Warm-Blooded
2012-06-29
[An Nahar] Dinosaurs may have been warm-blooded, scientists said Wednesday, in a finding that could debunk one of the most commonly-held images of the extinct giants.
When I was a child dinosaurs were cold-blooded creatures akin to lizards. The brachiosaur was reputed to have had a brain so tiny it needed a spare in its tailbone to keep its back end synchronized with its front end. At some point some genius noticed that no dinosaur had hips built like lizards'. Somebody else -- or maybe even the same guy -- noticed that the primary differences between an allosaur and a chicken were size and teeth. Evidence has even been found that at least some dinosaurs had feathers. Now, even a fool like me knows that chickens are warm-blooded. Therefore it's pretty logical that all dinosaurs except for exceptions like the ankylosaur (which had a lizard's hips and shoulders) were warm-blooded.
Researchers in Spain and Norway reported in the journal Nature they had found tree-like growth rings on the bones of mammals, a feature that until now was thought to be limited to cold-blooded creatures ... and dinosaurs. They also found evidence that dinosaurs probably had a high metabolic rate to allow fast growth -- another indicator of warm-bloodedness.
When I look around the Wonderful World of Nature there are a number of things that I notice without half trying, which, since scientists don't seem to have noticed the same thing makes me think that either I'm smarter than I think I am or scientists are dumber. F'instance, literal herds of duckbilled dinosaurs used to roam western North America, though I think they called it Gondwanaland or something like that back them. (I forget -- it was a long time ago. I was still in junior high...) Adults ranged in size between 10 and 40 feet long. Herbivores that size would consume quite a few bales of hay in a single day. An African elephant, which is not nearly as large as a 40-foot dinosaur, eats about 450 kilograms of vegetation per day. The climate back in those days must have been pretty lush to support bison-sized herds of the critters.
"Our results strongly suggest that dinosaurs were warm-blooded," lead author Meike Koehler of Spain's Institut Catala de Paleontologia told Agence La Belle France Presse.
Another thing I've noticed is body conformation. The allosaurs and Tyrannisaurus Rex and similar creatures were bipedal, which is pretty rare in nature. And they had eentsy-weentsy forelegs which they presumably used to hold down duckbilled dinosaurs and brontosaurs and such while ripping their throats out. But the only creatures still around with approximately the same body conformation as the velociraptors are kangaroos and wallabies and such. I'm much too old and fat and dignified to giggle, but the thought of a tyrannisaur hopping across the plains to fall upon Donald Duckbill occasionally has me in stitches.
If so, the findings should prompt a rethink about reptiles, she said.
I'm not too sure why we should rethink anything about reptiles since dinosaurs were chickens, only bigger and with teeth...
Modern-day reptiles are cold-blooded, meaning they cannot control their body temperatures through their own metabolic system -- relying instead on external means such as basking in the sun.
Yeah, and some of them had walnut-sized brains at each end...
While the dinosaurs may have been warm-blooded, their other characteristics kept them squarely in the reptile camp, said Koehler.
I saw Jurassic Park, so I know better. If they didn't have lizard hips they weren't lizards. Quod erat, as they say, demonstrandum...
Palaeontologists have long noted the ring-like markings on the bones of cold-blooded creatures and dinosaurs, and taken them to indicate pauses in growth, perhaps due to cold periods or lack of food. The bones of warm-blooded animals such as birds and mammals had never been properly assessed to see if they, too, exhibit the lines. Koehler and her team found the rings in all 41 warm-blooded animal species they studied, including antelopes, deer and giraffes. The finding "eliminates the strongest argument that does exist for cold-bloodedness" in dinosaurs, she said.
Posted by:Fred

#25  mmm...Kritosaur au vin.
Posted by: swksvolFF   2012-06-29 21:55  

#24  Dinosaurs taste like chicken

That's the plot of the Asimov story "A Statue for Father".
Posted by: Angie Schultz   2012-06-29 21:21  

#23  Jurrasic news: Dinosaurs taste like chicken
Posted by: Frank G   2012-06-29 21:02  

#22  My Lost Reply included this link to the might Cluckosaur. Imagine this fearsome beast, fully 15 feet tall! Imagine the ungodly noise!
Posted by: Angie Schultz   2012-06-29 19:15  

#21  An extra brain might be useful.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305   2012-06-29 18:11  

#20  Scientists tut tut over how the Church treated Galileo and they act the same way now.

Sad, but so true.
Posted by: Glenmore   2012-06-29 17:52  

#19  does a dinosaur have lips?
Posted by: Frank G   2012-06-29 16:35  

#18  Yeah,

The idea that a T-Rex ran around looking like some kind of crazed parakeet is disturbing.

I spent most of my childhood reading everything I could find about dinosaurs. I find a lot of the new research refreshing and welcome, however brachiosaurs with trunks and Allosaurs with feathers does give me pause.
Posted by: Bill Clinton   2012-06-29 15:40  

#17  Anyone have an opinion on Bakkers guess the Brachiosaurus might have had a trunk (nostral holes on top of the skull similar to elephants). I like how he thinks out of the box but this combined with feathers on some of the meat eaters are crushing my childhood.
Posted by: Rjschwarz   2012-06-29 13:03  

#16  old news.
Posted by: Thrunter Claviper5498   2012-06-29 12:11  

#15  ...or Microborg operating systems.
Posted by: Procopius2k   2012-06-29 12:02  

#14  Ah... but early dino-era birds found the huge bugs tasty and that why we don't have giant bugs today... except in government.
Posted by: Water Modem   2012-06-29 10:53  

#13  The goofy guy with the beard and the straw hat from Green Acres, the palentologist peer of Bakker, did some research on dinosaur bones and they found structures in the bones which are only present if the animal is warm blooded.

He, the goofy guy in the hat, says he had done some biometric calculations on a T-Rex (pretty impressive for a goofy guy with a funny straw hat, that a T-Rex could run at about 25-35 mph, ergo to him at least that sort of contradicted the cold blooded torpid model of dinosaurs. So he researched further. To him at least, there is enough "anecdotal and second hand evidence" that dinosaurs should have been warm blooded.

BTW as for settled science, the intellectual fascists that are the Clovis First crowd spent fifty years and zillions of dollars of research to preserve their paradigm, not to mention all the careers they ruined. Funny thing for the Clovis First crowd, DNA proved the Siberian land bridge migration was only one of three separate migrations to the new world, the others being the mid pacific migration and the south pacific migration. Plus, the Clovis spear head, that beautiful piece of artistry, has no comparisons in Siberia. Seems the only place in the world that had that type of spear head making technique was in Central France. Now DNA suggests the Clovis culture is later and came from Europe migrating by boat along the Second Ice Age polar cap extending south into the Mid Atlantic.
Too bad academics when they ostracize and demonize people that don't march to the paradigm, don't apologize when an avalanche of evidence suggests the paradigm is full of crap. Scientists tut tut over how the Church treated Galileo and they act the same way now.

BTW, I think Brachiosaurs are neat creatures and would never say anything bad about one.
Posted by: Bill Clinton   2012-06-29 10:48  

#12  Dinosaurs May Have Been Warm-Blooded

Why doesn't someone just ask Pelosi if they were or not?
Posted by: gorb   2012-06-29 10:48  

#11  My brilliant reply to this comment got eaten by a tyrannosaur. Short version:

This has been speculated since the 1970s, and in 1986 Robert Bakker wrote the popular Dinosaur Heresies discussing it.

There were, indeed, many dinosaurs with lizards' hips, the Saurischians. These include your upright meat-eating types.

Then there were the Ornithischians, the bird-hipped dinosaurs, which included some upright plant-eating types (like Donald Duckbill), plus (among others) the ankylosaurs.

Actual birds did not evolve from the Ornithischians, but from the Saurischians, which is very perverse of them.

All spellings approximate at this hour.
Posted by: Angie Schultz   2012-06-29 10:14  

#10  I think 'Jimmy the Greek' commented on that one BP, but it went badly for him afterward.
Posted by: Besoeker   2012-06-29 09:58  

#9  Has anyone studied the hip structure of Homo-Politicus?
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2012-06-29 09:57  

#8  I thought the big debate was about if T-Rex was a hunter or if he just strolled up and scared the hunters away from a fresh kill that looked tasty. In that scenerio little-bitty arms wouldn' be a handicap while in hunting they could be a problem.

I thought the other big debate was who put the wrong skull on top of apatasaurus and caused generations of kids to misname him brontasaurus and made archialogists look a bit wonkers in the process.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2012-06-29 09:53  

#7  P2k, the paleo-chemistry field is pretty interesting (at least to a nerdy geek [or is it geeky nerd?] like me). The composition of rock formations are checked for content and it's known that certain compounds only form under certain conditions. So, if something is found in a formation of a certain age, then the conditions, such as wetness or amount of oxygen or ... you get the picture, can be determined. So, not everything is as assumed as it used to be.
Clear as mud?
Posted by: AlmostAnonymous5839   2012-06-29 09:52  

#6  I thought the consensus in the scientific community shifted to warm blooded dinosaurs sometime around Jurassic Park. Then the feather idea came around by Jurassic Park III.

Perhaps they are planning a reboot of the series.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2012-06-29 09:51  

#5  I think the determining datum is predator/prey ratio. Slow, cold-blooded metabolisms require eating maybe every couple of weeks, or a month. See crocodiles, for example. So you can have a high predator number to prey animals.
With warm-blooded, there are many, many fewer predators because they have to eat so often that a given prey population will support fewer predators.
So I guess we could--or somebody could--count.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey   2012-06-29 08:38  

#4  The climate back in those days must have been pretty lush to support bison-sized herds of the critters.

Ah, yes, but 'the science is settled'. What is apparently settled is that at one time the Earth was in an optimal state and that everything else before or since then has been an anomaly.

As Dale pointed out in the first post, no one really knows the composition of the atmosphere at times beyond our own existence. It's both 'assumed' or speculated.
Posted by: Procopius2k   2012-06-29 08:27  

#3  The bones of warm-blooded animals such as birds and mammals had never been properly assessed to see if they, too, exhibit the lines.

Yeah right, nobody studied the bones of mamals. Not even those of homo sapiens. BTW, Institut Català de Paleontologia: for dcades cataaln independentist hacve tried to gain recognition for Catalonia through any means. That is a asecond reason for believing the study is a fraud.

Also: the warm-blooded hypothesis has been around for at least half a century with differnt arguments than those of the study.
Posted by: JFM   2012-06-29 07:28  

#2  No more speaking ill of my departed Brachiosaur kinfolk.
Posted by: Besoeker   2012-06-29 07:09  

#1  They have found in oxygen trapped in amber of that time to be around 38%. So I have always thought that increased size would be the result. Ram charged so to speak. I also never believed we were using fossil fuels. That idea is getting more attention these days. Fred, I enjoyed your meanderings.
Posted by: Dale   2012-06-29 07:04  

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