This man may have to finish out the current term as President. (doh!)
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| Obama Exerts Executive Privilege on F & F Docs | |
| 2012-06-20 | |
The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee is expected to forge ahead with its meeting on the contempt resolution anyway. House Republicans appear to be charging ahead with a high-drama contempt vote against Eric Holder, after GOP Rep. Darrell Issa said the attorney generally failed to produce the documents he requested for the probe into the Justice Department's botched Fast and Furious operation. The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee is scheduled to meet at 10 a.m. ET on Wednesday. Barring a last-minute document dump from Holder, lawmakers are poised to vote on a contempt resolution following debate this morning. If the vote proceeds, Republicans have more than enough votes on committee to pass the resolution. However, Holder would not be considered to be held in contempt of Congress unless and until the full House approves the measure. Issa and Holder have been going back and forth since last week over Issa's request for documents. Issa, R-Calif., indicated a willingness to postpone the vote after Holder indicated a willingness to make compromises and supply some documents in response to House Republicans' subpoena. But Issa told reporters after a roughly 20-minute meeting with Holder Tuesday that the attorney general instead briefed them on the documents in lieu of delivering them. Issa told Fox News that Holder didn't provide "anything in writing," and said the family of murdered Border Patrol agent Brian Terry wants the documents as much as he does. "We want the documents. Brian Terry's family would like the documents that are responsive to how in fact their son was gunned down with weapons that came from lawful dealers but at the ... behest of the Justice Department," Issa told Fox News. Weapons from the Fast and Furious anti-gunrunning operation were found at Terry's murder scene. Issa suggested earlier Tuesday that the vote could still be up in the air. "The deadline will always move to the last minute," said Issa, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. "We're not looking to hold people responsible. We're looking for document production." The failed Fast and Furious operation attempted selling thousands of guns to arms dealers along the U.S.-Mexico border to trace them to leaders of drug cartels. However, many of them showed up in crime scenes. Congressional investigators have been trying to determine if and when high-level Justice officials knew about problems with the operation. Holder said Issa rejected what he thought was "an extraordinary offer." "We offered the documents that we thought would resolve the subpoenas," he said. "The ball is in their court." The contempt vote in the oversight committee will likely pass considering Republicans outnumber Democrats 22 to 16. GOP House leadership has given Issa the green light to proceed how he sees fit, sources told Fox News, which suggests the vote would reach the House floor. Holder called for the Capitol Hill meeting late Monday in a possible attempt to make a deal with Issa and avoid the contempt vote. Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, the top Democrat on the House oversight panel, said he after the meeting he is confident that Justice officials are not attempting a cover-up by withholding documents. Holder's letter stated the Justice Department "has offered a serious, good faith proposal to bring this matter to an amicable resolution in the form of a briefing based on documents that the committee could retain." Issa had demanded to see a trove of documents on the controversial Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation. He also wants to know who prepared a now-retracted letter from Feb. 4, 2011, in which the department claimed the U.S. did not knowingly help smuggle guns to Mexico, including those found where Terry was killed. Issa wrote back to Holder later Monday requesting he deliver roughly 1,300 documents pertaining to the Feb. 4 letter. The letter also stated Holder needed to deliver a description of all the documents he will not produce. Issa said the log is "essential for the committee to determine whether the department has substantially met its obligations" -- a statement he repeated Tuesday after the meeting. | |
| Posted by:Beavis |
| #42 Congress can cut the purse strings at DOJ, DOS, BATFE, WH, etc. strangle these asshats. Next year? Clean house of any bureaucrats that went along with these (and other illegal/unethical) Obama Regime schemes. Time to purge |
| Posted by: Frank G 2012-06-20 23:21 |
| #41 FREEREPUBLIC Artic claims the Bammer may had known about F&F + implications, consequences back in 2009??? NET POSTER = opined that Bammer may wish he was John Edwards right now, or Bill vee Monica's Dress??? |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2012-06-20 22:37 |
| #40 Nice to see Obama show he is part of the privilaged class. One two three four..fiiiiif. |
| Posted by: swksvolFF 2012-06-20 22:08 |
| #39 Two Texas Lawyers representing Zapata family go after Holder/Justice Department for $25,000,000.00 today over F&F guns. Link |
| Posted by: Angaiger Elmeresing8208 2012-06-20 20:58 |
| #38 Obama has made a habit of bypassing Congress so can't Congress do an end run on obtaining these docs? We have cyber capabilities that can remotely access computers, NSA eavesdropping and storage for 3-5 years, and DoD surveillance from space--allowing them to stonewall until the election is over is simply unacceptable. If nothing else, enact the secret resolution (from the Wallstreet Daily): “If we do not provide against corruption, our government will soon be at an end.” –George Mason, Virginia Delegate to the U.S. Constitutional Convention and one of America’s Founding Fathers. Mason made that declaration in 1787. Or as Lawrence Lessig says in his book Republic Lost….“Sometimes an institution becomes too sick to fix itself. Not that the institution is necessarily blind to its own sickness. But that it doesn’t have the capacity, or will, to do anything about it.” Understanding this, the Framers added to our Constitution an ingenious escape hatch. Although it’s never been used in the history of this proud country, it’s the only plausible strategy for forcing fundamental reform to our Congress. We’re calling it “The Framers’ Secret Resolution.” But amid all the hope, a newly liberated America was struggling to find its identity. Ironically, like its British predecessor, its early political system was rife with corruption. As Washington’s powerbase was forming, greed often trumped morals. Sounds familiar, right? In 1787, Congress convened in Philadelphia with the “sole and express” purpose to make it possible for the Constitution to be amended, as needed. It accomplished this extraordinary feat in two very distinct ways: 1) By Congressional mandate. 2) By calling for a convention. To date, all 27 amendments have come forth via the traditional route, where Congress proposes an amendment and then the states ratify it. But, as Lessig says, “Sometimes an institution, like an individual, needs an intervention from people, from friends,from outside.” Knowing this, the Framers forever etched their secret resolution onto the parchment…that Congress must “call a convention” to consider proposals to amend the Constitution if two-thirds of the state legislators ask it to. Period! In other words, Americans can, in effect, supersede Congress if the masses can somehow all get behind a game-changing idea, and influence their local leaders to move on it. It’s a daunting task. However, even though it’s never been done, the specter of a convention alone can scare Congress into taking action... |
| Posted by: OmuluqueHapsburg5085 2012-06-20 20:25 |
| #37 "Nothing happened. And if something did happen it was Bush's fault. And if something did happen that wasn't Bush's fault, we wouldn't know anything about it. And if we did know something about it, what we know would be in these documents I won't show you. Any questions?" |
| Posted by: Matt 2012-06-20 19:47 |
| #36 A comment from one of Breitbart's articles: It was the tape recordings of Nixon's attempt to cover up the White House involvement in the Watergate burglary that forced his resignation. He claimed the tapes were protected by executive privilege. It took several months to get his claim of executive privilege before the Supreme Court. That's what Obama is counting on-months of delay to push this case past the election. Obama has become an outlaw who will do anything to keep his grip on power. He has already shown a propensity toward rule edict and regulation. Watch his behavior if the Supreme Court finds Obamacare unconstitutional. We are sliding closer to dictatorship every day. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 17:40 |
| #35 Interesting article over at Big Government on the two types of Executive Privleges (communicative and deliberative) and how this falls under the second (and much weaker) one. Also stresses how Holder will eventually lose: Holder Will Lose Executive Privilege Fight |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2012-06-20 17:31 |
| #34 Like a number of commenters said: Executive privilege covers communications between the This is not breaking into some offices. This is accessory to murder of a Border Patrol agent and hundreds of Mexican citizens by weapons allowed to go to Mexican drug cartels. These are serious charges. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2012-06-20 17:07 |
| #33 John Adams said, "As to the history of the revolution, my ideas may be peculiar, perhaps singular. What do we mean by the revolution? The war? That was no part of the revolution; it was only an effect and consequence of it. The revolution was in the minds of the people, and this was effected from 1760 to 1775, in the course of fifteen years, before a drop of blood was shed at Lexington." Changing Times Richard Fernandez at Belmont Club |
| Posted by: SR-71 2012-06-20 15:48 |
| #32 It adds up. And Obama saw them all? |
| Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 2012-06-20 15:42 |
| #31 Regarding the e mail ATF has 5000 employees including 10 offices in Arizona. There are probably several dozen stores in AZ that sell firearms. The 'don't talk about this' emails and the 'here is what to say about this' emails alone probably total ten thousand or so by themselves, if you count each recipient as a document. Then there are the 'notes to file' and the interdepartment and intradepartmental emails which probably also total ten thousand. It adds up. |
| Posted by: Lord Garth 2012-06-20 14:51 |
| #30 It is just beyond belief that some sort of inter-agency coordination did not take place with regard to F&F. Unless, of course, we are becoming our own private Pakistain. Wheels within wheels. I see from crosspatch's pic that I'm not the first to realize we are reliving both the Carter years AND the Nixon years simultaneously. God help us all, said Tiny Tim. |
| Posted by: SteveS 2012-06-20 14:46 |
| #29 I read somewhere that the House requested some 80,000 documents. Does executive privilege mean that all 80,000 of those documents have been seen in the White House? Again I say, if it takes 80,000 documents to run an operation like F&F it's a wonder our government can function at all. Who can possibly read that much? |
| Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 2012-06-20 14:28 |
| #28 Whatever it takes for justice to prevail. Preventing that loser from someday being nominated to the Supreme Court would be a definate plus as well. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 14:06 |
| #27 Quite difficult to "diminish" that which does not exist. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 14:02 |
| #26 p.s. crosspatch, IMO, removing Holder is critical if you don't want to have a third world style elections. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2012-06-20 13:56 |
| #25 They are just running out the clock, hoping for a win in November, and hoping to take the House (dreamers). I expect pardons issued that give enough cover if they do not stay in office. The damage done by this gang has permanently diminished our trust in the DOJ, State, BATFE, DEA, IRS, FBI, and many other agencies. And it was hard to even think that some of those agencies could get lower in the esteem of the American people. |
| Posted by: Whiskey Mike 2012-06-20 13:55 |
| #24 Visitor, who will take care of Iran? |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2012-06-20 13:50 |
| #23 g(r)om... would you consider loaning us Netanyahu until the end of January? |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 13:45 |
| #22 letting the people decide in November Looking from the outside, crosspatch, seems to me people decided a long time ago. To wit, Obama's core constituency couldn't care less. And the other side has plenty without F&F. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2012-06-20 13:43 |
| #21 There were pundits during Obama's first year in office who said he would likely not finish his first term. Impeachment is most unlikely. Resignation or declination of the nomination is much more plausible. Keep an eye on the Hildebeast and Slick. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 13:41 |
| #20 I doubt it. Less than five months left until the election, it would take longer than that, particularly since there is a long summer recess, to come up with articles of impeachment and a trial. It would be faster to simply keep digging for as much documentation as they can and get it exposed to the light of day and letting the people decide in November. |
| Posted by: crosspatch 2012-06-20 13:33 |
| #19 This man may have to finish out the current term as President. (doh!) |
| Posted by: Rupert Snaiting1492 2012-06-20 13:22 |
| #18 They never learn, do they. Repeat after me, Champ and Eric: it's not the crime, it's the cover-up. Take your lumps. Release the documents. Fire some folks and reassign some more. Take the hit in the press. All that is preferable to the festering wound that F & F has now become. Now you've got the media, even MSNBC, wondering what's going on. What's in those documents. Did Champ see them. Does executive privilege stretch to documents the White House supposedly never saw. And what's in those documents. Nice going. You turned a sordid, small-scale scandal into a major scandal. |
| Posted by: Steve White 2012-06-20 13:13 |
| #17 I wonder if he fully understood what he was getting himself into. The Junior Senator from Illinois is far too detached from reality to understand the consequences of any of his actions. This is just another of many moves on his part that makes that clear. His job, he feels, is to "take care of" his choom gang. That is all that gangsters know to do. This is another example of the current gangster government. |
| Posted by: Rupert Snaiting1492 2012-06-20 12:55 |
| #16 And no statute of limitations on murder--this won't go away. |
| Posted by: OmuluqueHapsburg5085 2012-06-20 12:39 |
| #15 @#13, that is an extremely important distinction. Accessory to murder is a serious charge. |
| Posted by: crosspatch 2012-06-20 12:30 |
| #14 This makes Watergate look like a school boy prank. |
| Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 2012-06-20 12:28 |
| #13 Nobody got killed in Watergate. |
| Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 2012-06-20 12:26 |
| #12 No use Crosspatch. I still won't vote for him in Nov. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:56 |
#11  |
| Posted by: crosspatch 2012-06-20 11:53 |
| #10 Out of the frying pan into the fire. I wonder if he fully understood what he was getting himself into. Congress needs to impeach The Man, but libs only understand power, not duty. |
| Posted by: gorb 2012-06-20 11:51 |
| #9 No Bobby, just saying there are strict protocols regarding the shipment of weapons by the USG across international borders. It is just beyond belief that some sort of inter-agency coordination did not take place with regard to F&F. If no inter-agency coordination took place...then where is the US State Department and CIA outrage? Crickets.... only crickets. There is very likely much, much more to this story. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:48 |
| #8 Besoeker - are you making nominations for "Under The Bus"? |
| Posted by: Bobby 2012-06-20 11:42 |
| #7 On my soapbox again, but it is simply inconveivable that the US Ambassador to Mexico, his Chief of Station, and LEGAT staff knew nothing about F&F. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:25 |
| #6 I suspect you are correct Unomosing Snaiting1141. But it may not stop with the Obama and Holder. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:21 |
| #4 Appears the Obama White House just kicked it up a notch, but how can he make such a declaration when some documents have already been released? Releasable documents... non-releasable documents? Sort of begs the question about White House non-involvement, does it not. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2012-06-20 11:19 |
| #3 Funny thing pointed out over at AOSHQ: how can Zero assert executive privilege over documents he says he's never seen? TFSM #1 That would also mean, lying to Congress. Obama/Holder are toast. This is BIG. |
| Posted by: Unomosing Snaiting1141 2012-06-20 11:17 |
| #2 This is worse than Contempt for Congress. Failure to prevent weapons trafficing to murderous cartels. Providing arms used in the murder of US Agent. The President, instead of firing Holder as demanded by Congress, just implicated himself as a key player by trying to protect and harbor Holder. Congress and Issa can now go after Obama directly. |
| Posted by: Unomosing Snaiting1141 2012-06-20 11:13 |
| #1 Funny thing pointed out over at AOSHQ: how can Zero assert executive privilege over documents he says he's never seen? |
| Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain 2012-06-20 11:07 |