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| Britain |
| Poll: Muslims more proud to be British than most |
| 2011-11-20 |
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| Posted by:ryuge |
| #4 Christian Spaniards invited Moors in? First I've heard that version. I'd always understood the Sword of Islam swept across North Africa and swept through the Iberian peninsula until Charles Martel stopped them. Unfortunately Charles didn't roll them back so the Spanish fought for the next 700 years to free their peninsula bit by bit. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2011-11-20 23:55 |
| #3 Western 'progressive' elites and jihadi Islamists have this in common: They exemplify the defects of their respective civilizations and have absurdly extended them. No future for either. That's why they are working together, because they have so much in common. Time will tell. |
| Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-11-20 16:27 |
| #2 Islam ... cannot truly compete with secularization and the advantages of integration The problem in Europe is the "progressive" elites are not defending the larger culture. In fact, they are trying to destroy it. The Progressives have entered into a defacto alliance with the Islamists to destroy British society, with the expectation that they can then manipulate the Muslims into obediance. The assumption is that Muslims are stupid. This is the same assumption that Christian Spaniards made in 711 when they invited Moorish troops in. It took them more than 700 years to get them out. I believe the progresives are a greater threat to the West than the Muslims are. If the West had better leadership and more selfconfidednce, the Muslims would be integrating mush more successfully. Al |
| Posted by: Frozen Al 2011-11-20 09:51 |
| #1 Muslim migratory patterns to non-Muslim nations are still too new to see if they fit the pattern of typical immigration. First generation immigrants are typically "old world" in their traditions and behavior. They set the stage for the speed in which their group integrates, in that if they disperse, they integrate much faster than if they ghettoize. Second generation immigrants are the most problematic to society, neither old world or new world yet, forming gangs, and feeling oppressed in their ghettos, which are starting to decay with the older, first generation running out of steam. Third generation are far more integrated, and want to leave the ghetto for better opportunities. They know how the system works and no longer have more than a nostalgic connection with the old world. Islam will invariably slow this process down, as it tries to retain and reinforce ghettoization, but it cannot truly compete with secularization and the advantages of integration, when confronted with a side-by-side comparison of what amounts to primitivism vs. modernity. Of course, it will try, which is why Islamists are so desperate to try and force "Sharia enclaves", so they can coerce members to stay in the ghetto and not integrate, though they want to leave. Right now, in much of the western world, it is at a particularly nasty stage, with families trying to enforce old world rules, such as "honor killing", which are seen as loathsome and intolerable by the rest of society. But such things can only exist and be effective if the government encourages, or at least tolerates them. That is, the family might kill the eldest daughter, but they can't kill, or even control the younger daughters, if the murderous adults are all in prison for decades. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2011-11-20 09:10 |