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The Grand Turk
Armenian-Americans sue for century-old losses
2010-08-01
[Al Arabiya Latest] Lawyers for two Armenian men have sued Turkey and two of its major banks, claiming they and others were victims of genocide and seeking what could amount to hundreds of millions of dollars in damages.
While I do sympathize, I think they make statutes of limitations for this sort of thing.
The lawsuit, filed on Thursday in U.S. District Court in California, names the Republic of Turkey, The Central Bank of the Republic of Turkey and T.C. Ziraat Bankasi as defendants. The suit seeks class action status on behalf of all Armenians and Turkish citizens "who were deprived of their citizenship, brutally deported, (and) had their property seized" by the Turkish government.
If this works the remnants of the Paleologues will be filing suit next.
Los Angeles attorney Brian Kabateck, who filed the suit on behalf of L.A. resident Garbis Daoyan and Queens, New York resident Hrayr Turabian, said he believes this is the first lawsuit dealing with the Armenian genocide that names the Turkish government as a defendant. Lawyers were seeking class-action status for the suit, a process that attorney Brian Kabateck said could take as long as three years. "We are rolling up our sleeves and are going forward," said Brian Kabateck.
"If this flies we'll be rolling in dough. All those Armenian descendants will get a few bucks, but I'm lookin' at a half acre house and a trophy wife!"
The lawsuit seeks compensation for land, buildings and businesses allegedly seized from Armenians along with bank deposits and property, including priceless religious and other artifacts, some of which are now housed in museums in Turkey. "All of the lawyers involved have relatives who perished or fled the Armenian genocide, which gives it a special poignancy for us," said the attorney, Mark Geragos.
I remember him. He defended Scott Peterson and then Michael Jackson fired him.
The lawsuit claims more than a million Armenians were killed in forced marches, concentration camps and massacres "perpetrated, assisted and condoned" by Turkish officials and armed forces.
It was the prototype for the Holocaust...
Also named in the lawsuit were the Central Bank of Turkey and T.C., Ziraat Bankasi, the largest and oldest Turkish bank with origins dating back to the 1860s. The lawsuit claims the government of Turkey agreed to administer the property collect rents and sale proceeds from the seized assets and deposit the receipts in trust accounts until the property could be restored to owners. Instead, the government has "withheld the property and any income derived from such property," the lawsuit said.
That was The Treaty of Sevres. The Turks signed it, then a few years later repudiated it, and it was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne. Sounds like it's a matter for the League of Nations, which seems to have acquiesced, since it takes a minimum of two to treaty.
A message left with the Turkish Consul General's office in Los Angeles was not immediately returned. After-hours e-mails seeking comment from both banks were not immediately returned. Lawyers for the plaintiffs believe records of the properties and profits still exist, and they are seeking an accounting that could reach billions of dollars.
30 percent of billions is big bux indeed...
Geragos said the biggest issue in Armenian communities is seeking recognition for the ethnic bloodshed that allegedly claimed the lives of as many as 1.5 million Armenians between 1915 and 1919.
The bloodshed's a matter of record, regardless of what the Turks say.
Posted by:Fred

#17  tw - me likee. :-D

*rubs hands with glee*
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut   2010-08-01 23:26  

#16  Interestingly, the Palestinians have been talking about claims for years for the properties they still hold the front door keys to, in the expectation that Israel will both pay up and let them move back. Last week or so Israel announced that they will be compiling a list of the real property and possessions left behind by the Jews of the Arab/Iranian/North African world when they were fled following the establishment of Israel in 1948 -- for a threatened suit against the governments of the various countries. It is estimated that that the amount will be significantly greater than the Palestinian claim, and the plan is to agree to that claim if the Israeli one is honoured.
Posted by: trailing wife   2010-08-01 21:09  

#15  Thanks trailing wifeI always try to keep it G rated, but sometimes a slip or 2 get the point across better.

I say again with emphasis:

If you agree to this 'compensation' you open the flood gates.
slippery slope.
Everyone got f**ked over by someone at sometime in history.
You cannot right the wrongs of history with legal remedies in the present tense.
Posted by: Mike Hunt   2010-08-01 17:09  

#14  Seems to me any such action is automaticly void as "Time Barred"?
Way too many years have passed.
Posted by: Redneck Jim   2010-08-01 12:29  

#13  No 'legal' war act till Sept 2001. Actions prior would be ex post facto and thus constitutionally prohibited as based upon 'war'.
Posted by: Procopius2k   2010-08-01 11:49  

#12  Criminal acts, not acts of war with action taken without due process.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2010-08-01 11:33  

#11  The US does not try non-citizens for criminal acts committed in another jurisdiction.

Need to check how many terror acts committed in foreign countries have resulted in trials and imprisonment in the US. At least the target was usually an American citizen at the time of the act as with Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali, and Mohammed Odeh of the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings.

The action here being done "on behalf of all Armenians and Turkish citizens" which were not even US citizens in foreign land when that situation occurred. The point is that as a third party similar to the Spanish, we have no standing in the issue at hand when the act was committed.
Posted by: Procopius2k   2010-08-01 11:00  

#10  This logic would give Texas back to the Mexicans and then the rest of the US back to the Indians. Of course it would solidify the Jewish claim on Israel.
Posted by: Glenmore   2010-08-01 10:54  

#9  Phil, I agree that property seizure is the basis for the suit and I am sympathetic to that, but when I see class action and California, the only thing missing to make it a pure shakedown is The Justice Brothers, Reverend Jackson and Al Sharpton. It would be interesting to see what is owed to whom and how it will be divided amongst their heirs. All in all, a good opportunity for lawyers to feast on others with little true justice but plenty of vengeance.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2010-08-01 10:28  

#8  I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, there is no end to the historic grievances one might pursue.

OTOH it brings pressure on the Turkish government regarding their treatment of the Armenians just after they sponsored the attempts to bust the embargo on Hamas.
Posted by: lotp   2010-08-01 10:23  

#7  TW, My wife and son will be in Germany, Italy and Albania in the next few weeks. If you see a 6' 3" 14 year old, be sure to introduce yourself. I too have too much work, and my family has been here so long I don't know which country is the old one.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2010-08-01 10:21  

#6  While I am against reparations for claimed past detrimental (can't think of a better word) acts, this is somewhat different.

They are suing the entities - the Turkish government and others - who benefited from illegal seizure of property. I am assuming the seizures were illegal under Turkish law at the time, unlike say slavery or removing indigenous people from land in the USA or Australia.

This isn't reparations for the 'genocide', its' suing people for what is in effect benefiting from the proceeds of theft or at least breach of contract.

I recall similar cases in Germany were settled many years ago.
Posted by: phil_b   2010-08-01 10:13  

#5   If this stands, TW would be able to sue the FRG for the damages her family suffered in WWII.

Agreed, Nimble Spemble, that's absurd. In the end I agree with my mother that we are happier here than we would have been had she stayed in the old country (beyond the mere fact of my existence, I mean). I'll check on that again over the next few weeks -- the trailing daughters and I are going on a tour of Germany and Holland with my mother, visiting her old haunts, school chums and relatives she hasn't seen in some cases since the 1930s. Mr. Wife has the odd idea that he has too much work at the office to take off for so long...

Mikey, forgiven. Even I've used strong language here on occasion for rhetorical emphasis. Your apology does you credit. :-)
Posted by: trailing wife   2010-08-01 09:35  

#4  Not to disagree with your conclusion, but the difference is a criminal prosecution for an act committed elsewhere versus a civil action to collect for damages to a US citizen. The US does not try non-citizens for criminal acts committed in another jurisdiction. Do you really want to say that Americans from Iran can't sue Iran for damages they suffered when tortured?

I think Mike's point is more pertinent. To sue for damages, you have to have suffered the damage directly. If this stands, TW would be able to sue the FRG for the damages her family suffered in WWII. But almost everybody who immigrated did so as the result of some level of inhospitability in their former homeland that an artful attorney could construe as warranting damages.

Frankly people who raise these suits strike me as lacking a full understanding of what it means to be an American. When you come here, you should be leaving the old country and all its baggage behind once and for ever. When you come you should be dealt with as an individual American with the same rights as every other American. Make your way into the future in the new world, but leave the old behind.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2010-08-01 08:48  

#3  And how this is fundamentally any different from Spanish courts seeking international jurisdiction to prosecute Americans for actions in a third country? Yes, I know that the game has been played here before. It should never have been allowed to start.
Posted by: Procopius2k   2010-08-01 07:48  

#2  oops... sorry for the potty mouth!

sincerely

Mikey
Posted by: Mike Hunt   2010-08-01 04:46  

#1  While I sympathize with the Armenians that were brutally slaughtered 80 years ago...I have to ask.. where does it end?
If you agree to this 'compensation' you open the flood gates.
slippery slope.
Everyone got fucked over by someone at sometime in history.
You cannot right the wrongs of history with legal remedies in the present tense.
Move forward...Move ahead!
Posted by: Mike Hunt   2010-08-01 04:45  

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