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| Science & Technology |
| Laminated Linen Protected Alexander the Great |
| 2010-01-13 |
| The Greeks even had time to invent Kevlar in between philopsophy, democracy, and all those parties, etc. |
| Posted by:Besoeker |
| #13 Foot-pedal loom, lotp? |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2010-01-13 23:54 |
| #12 Lotp, I thought generally hands were used in weaving, not knees! :-) OK, levity aside, I were making tapestries a lifetime ago, in the old country. Wool or sisal (or both). |
| Posted by: twobyfour 2010-01-13 23:24 |
| #11 lotp. Thanks for the info. I like that kind of stuff. Loved Burke's "Connections", for example. Bronze is easier to work than iron, but in the Homeric times--the Bronze Age--there was no comparison, there being little to no iron. The question in my mind was not the ease of working it, but the availability of it. The horse lords probably had it--if we believe Homer--but few others, more than likely. |
| Posted by: Richard Aubrey 2010-01-13 23:11 |
| #10 ION ANGELINA JOLIE = NOT-ALEXANDER, WAFF > ALEXANDER THE GREAT WAS ALBANIAN [Slav?], AUTHOR SAYS. |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2010-01-13 20:42 |
| #9 Seems backwards that they had bronze armor a millenium before they figured out how to laminate linen. Yep. But as far as metals go, bronze is fairly easy to work. OTOH linen is far more difficult to spin and weave than wool, which was their basic textile. The techniques for retting (rotting) flax stems to extract the linen fibers are relatively easy to master but those fibers are difficult to spin into thread for weaving. In northern Europe it was often done inside damp caves since moisture helps with managing the thread as it is being spun, resulting in a high frequency of crippling arthritis in spinners who specialized in this fiber. Handweavers generally don't attempt to work with linen until they're skilled with other fibers and there are all sorts of tricks for how to set and keep the proper tension on the warp - linen is notorious for slipping as humidity changes. Also, all the evidence is that the Greeks didn't have the sort of looms needed for fine-weave linen until well into the classical period, if then. A whole lot of odd stones and ceramic blobs with holes from palace workshops that archaeologists once dismissed as meaningless have now been identified as warp threat weights, which means the Greeks of classical time were still using upright frame looms, where each warp thread is tied to a weight to keep it tensed. That works for wool and can work for some types of cotton but is much less useful for linen, especially fine weaves that would hold lacquer. In contrast the Egyptians used frame looms staked out on the ground, for which multiple slaves were needed to pass the shuttle back and forth, tension the web during weaving etc. Tedious and painful for slaves who had to do it all day, but they managed linens with up to 100 or more threads per inch. (which yielded cloth so diaphanous as to leave nothing to the imagination when women were dressed in it ...) More than y'all wanted to know, I'm sure. I donated my weaving looms, tools and thread / yarn stash to a college arts program a few years ago after damaging a knee but I still miss the hobby .... ;-) |
| Posted by: lotp 2010-01-13 20:40 |
| #8 Yes indeed this is very old material, well known to people interested in the subject. |
| Posted by: buwaya 2010-01-13 20:04 |
| #7 lotp Seems backwards that they had bronze armor a millenium before they figured out how to laminate linen. Bronze was expensive, more so than iron. And in those days, all metal originated in a hole with a couple of chumps using a candle and a pick. Perhaps the aristos had bronze for status and the next rank down the linen, and the conscripted snuffies nothing. |
| Posted by: Richard Aubrey 2010-01-13 20:04 |
| #6 Over his tunic he wears a non-metallic corselet, the commonest style of hoplite armor since the end of the 6th century[BCE]. Modern writers have variously identified it as leather or as stiffened linen. Ancient writers frequently refer to linothorakes, linen corselets, sometimes coupled with spolades, which seem to be of leather; the linothorax and the spolas are probably linen and leather versions, respectively, of this curiass. The could be reinforced with metal scales, but this is less common now than earlier. The cuirass wraps around the body, tying under the left arm (or, some vase paintings suggest, occasionally down the front) and is split below the waist into strips call pteruges (feathers) for ease of movement; a second layer of pteruges is fixed inside the first, covering the gaps between them. A U-shaped yoke is fixed across the back and arms of the U are brought down forward over the shoulders and laced down on the chest; the shoulder pieces have decorated bronze finials where the lace is attached. [figure] 15b shows the back view; note the rectangular flap which stands up to protect the back of the neck. The cuirass is usually white, often decorated in red and black, with the shoulder yoke and waistband sometimes a different color. Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars, Duncan Head, 1982 Looks like recycling of old material to new audiences. The concept of multiple layers of linen 'glued' [stiffened] together has been known for a while and has been done by reenactors. |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2010-01-13 16:40 |
| #5 Might be because the Trojan War occurred a millenium before Alexander and the Hellenes didn't have the skill to weave fine linen at that point. |
| Posted by: lotp 2010-01-13 16:39 |
| #4 Yeah, all okay for Alexander and his Macedonians. But what if you're a Spartan with an amazing six-pack? Armor...I think not. Seen research showing the Spartans had this stuff, too. Which makes a mystery out of the repetitious Iliad trope, "his armor rang 'round him when he fell." |
| Posted by: Richard Aubrey 2010-01-13 13:18 |
| #3 Silk armor was used by the Japanese, and composite armor, using tough leather and silk joints would have been quite effective, yet flexible. Since processed hemp makes a very fine, silk-like fabric, it might have made a good laminate armor as well. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2010-01-13 12:38 |
| #2 Like, wow, man, a bunch of cloth-wearers conquered the world? |
| Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-01-13 11:20 |
| #1 Wow - this and "Greek Fire". At least we still have the secret recipe for KFC and the formula for Coke. |
| Posted by: Halliburton - Mysterious Conspiracy Division 2010-01-13 10:41 |