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| Everybody Needs Ammo |
| 2009-06-18 |
| The U.S. Army has ordered 38.4 million rounds of .300 Winchester magnum ammunition for its newly modified M-24 sniper rifles, as well as similar SOCOMs Mk13 models. The new ammo will cost about $1.30 per round. The .300 Winchester magnum will be ordered in minimum lots of 56,160 rounds (117 boxes of 480 rounds each). The entire 38.4 million rounds will last a while. All this is in response to requests from snipers for a longer range weapon, but not one as bulky and heavy as the 30 pound .50 caliber rifle (which is good to about 2,000 meters). Thus the army is modifying existing M24 rifles to fire the more powerful .300 Winchester Magnum round. It was felt that this gave the snipers all the additional range they needed, without requiring a much heavier rifle. SOCOM has been using this approach since the early 1990s. The calls were loudest from snipers operating in Afghanistan, where U.S. Army and Marine Corps shooters wanted a sniper rifle that can consistently get kills out to 1,800 meters. The current 7.62mm round was good only to about 800 meters. The 300 Winchester magnum is a more powerful, but not much larger, round than the current 7.62mm one. By replacing the barrel and receiver of the $6,700 M24 sniper rifle, for about $4,000, you can fire the .300 Winchester Magnum round. This is longer (at 7.62 x 67mm) than the standard 7.62x51mm round, and is good out to 1,200 meters. An improved version of the round is expected to extend that range another 200 meters or so. There was another option, and that was to replace the barrel and receiver of the M24 sniper rifles to handle the .338 (8.6mm) Lapua Magnum round. Thus you still have a 17 pound sniper rifle, but with a round that can hit effectively out to about 1,600 meters. British snipers in Iraq, and especially Afghanistan, have found the Lapua Magnum round does the job at twice the range of the standard 7.62x51mm round. The 8.6mm round entered use in the early 1990s, and became increasingly popular with police and military snipers. Dutch snipers have used this round in Afghanistan with much success, and have a decade of experience with these larger caliber rifles. British snipers in Afghanistan are also using the new round, having converted many of their 7.62mm sniper rifles. Recognizing the popularity of the 8.6mm round, Barrett, the pioneer in 12.7mm sniper rifles, came out with a 15.5 pound version of its rifle, chambered for the 8.6mm. But the U.S. preferred the lighter .300 Winchester magnum solution. This also speaks volumes about the quality of our shooters. Most good riflemen are hesitant about targets over 500m. 1800m is Tiger Woods. |
| Posted by:Anonymoose |
| #19 CO? 300WinMAg or else 308Win (7.62 NATO) is likley |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2009-06-18 19:53 |
| #18 What caliber, OP? |
| Posted by: no mo uro 2009-06-18 19:29 |
| #17 A friend of mine is a game warden over in the southwestern part of the state. He's been asked several times to kill dangerous bears. He tries to get as close as he can, but there have been times he's shot from 400-500 meters away. Firing a weapon in the plateaus and gullies of southwestern Colorado is a chore at any time. He's estimated that he's had to offset as much as ten feet from his target on many occasions. He says it's the worst when you have 800 feet elevation difference between you and the target. His advice: NEVER shoot UP at a target - missing isn't the worst thing that can happen. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2009-06-18 19:00 |
| #16 Drop at 1000 yards is 300 plus/minus 10 inches, depending on bullet BC. |
| Posted by: Whiskey Mike 2009-06-18 17:54 |
| #15 "the drop was 8 feet and the windage adjustment 15 feet" Good grief, AB! How do you even do that? |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2009-06-18 17:54 |
| #14 Original bolt .50 cals had a reasonable probability of detaching retina, some sooner than others. Worst effect on shooter (rarely seen) was tearing of connective tissue to heart and aorta rupture. Typically, the shooter is 'displaced' 8-12 inches; not conducive to maintaining concealment (but hey, that big plume of flame from the barrel isn't either). Most recent news: using advanced materials like acoustic to optical phonon shifting materials, recoil-reducing hydraulic couplers (think howitzer actions), and other stuff, the energetic impulse has been/is being changed from a 'spike' to a broader, time-longer hillock-shaped curve. Energy is still the same, except it is 'felt' over a longer period of time. Net result is almost pleasant to shoot; experienced .50 shooters (not me) equate it to feeling like a .243 now. I hesitate to put forth the actual numbers, but the instrumented gun reduces felt recoil by more than 75%. Oh, and that is without a brake (they help with recoil but were always tough on the spotters). No more 'displacement' effects, etc unless you weigh 90 pounds. The plume can/will be whipped as well. 16 pounds is the goal; not there yet. A breakdown gun is in the works so the weight can be distributed among team members. Stand by. |
| Posted by: Whiskey Mike 2009-06-18 17:47 |
| #13 Canadians use .338 for a lot of their work, or so I was led to believe (due to some personal dislike of the .50, and the 338 Lapua being "designed" for long range sniper work) |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2009-06-18 17:18 |
| #12 I recall a shot by a Brit team in Basra early in the war - don't recall the distance but the drop was 8 feet and the windage adjustment 15 feet |
| Posted by: Angusomp Black8438 2009-06-18 17:09 |
| #11 My Canadian military buddies have related that there have been a few detached retinas from shooting the 50. Too much recoil too many times = retina problems. |
| Posted by: Canuckistan sniper 2009-06-18 17:05 |
| #10 longest confirmed kill is 2430 meters Mother of Pearl! At that range, the bullet drop must be feet rather than inches. |
| Posted by: SteveS 2009-06-18 17:02 |
| #9 A lot of my buddies who hunt combination large (elk, moose) and medium (deer, antelope) game at ranges of 200 to 400 yds with some regularity find the 300 Win Mag to be the ideal round, and it's hard to argue against it. A round which delivers 3200 fps with a 200-220 grain pill is pretty devastating and flat shooting at the same time, better than the 30-06 family and defintely better than the 308 family. At ranges under 300 yds, it's good for any animal on the planet. If I chased a lot of the bigger critters at long range I'd move up from my assorted and beloved 7mm calibers to this one. Three downsides - it does kick like a mule, it's loud as hell (but no worse than a BMG), and the brass is expensive - it's a belted case which works in a slightly longer action, vs the nonbelted 308 and 30-06 families. I second those who praise shots over 1000 yards. For those who've never shot much, it's hard to explain what an achievement that is. |
| Posted by: no mo uro 2009-06-18 15:41 |
| #8 Carbon fiber enhanced barrel Now that is interesting. I think that carbon fiber wrapped barrel liners are used in the latest tank cannons to keep weight down and increase stiffness. |
| Posted by: ed 2009-06-18 15:35 |
| #7 Gromky, longest confirmed kill is 2430 meters in Afghanistan on the .50 cal BMG McMillan Tac-50. Note the word 'confirmed'. Multiple witnesses, not just the sniper team. Many unconfirmed (except by shootee) at 2000 to 1000 range. No one bothers to keep score. I think the 2430 kill was with a 16x scope, but can verify if you want. Tac-50 is too heavy to hill hump though; currently going on a diet to about 16-18 pounds. Carbon fiber enhanced barrel cut the weight by more than 7 pounds, improved accuracy, plus reduced mass stock. 300 Win Mag is ok, too much muzzle blast/flash for a small improvement in range. Everyone should have a 16 pound .50 cal. 7.62x51 doesn't have the range. 338 Lapua has same blast problem as 300 Win Mag (only more so) but has more reach. Look for a 2800 meter .50 in the near future. :) |
| Posted by: Whiskey Mike 2009-06-18 15:21 |
| #6 10X magnification is typical for 7.62x51mm. At 1600m I imagine they will want to upgrade the scope to 16X. That's a view of 75m at 1200m. I have seen 20X scopes on civvie .50cal Barretts. Spotting scopes typically are 60X. That's what would be used to find targets at long range. At that mag, the spotter can determine just how pious the target is from beard length. |
| Posted by: ed 2009-06-18 14:56 |
| #5 U.S. Army and Marine Corps shooters wanted a sniper rifle that can consistently get kills out to 1,800 meters. The current 7.62mm round was good only to about 800 meters. I call BS. What sort of rifle sighting system is good for a mile? Come on, the guy in the crosshairs is almost invisible at that range, even with a magnified scope. |
| Posted by: gromky 2009-06-18 14:23 |
| #4 The Dutch have snipers? I suppose all of you knew? |
| Posted by: Bobby 2009-06-18 12:40 |
| #3 The .300 is the gold standard. Nice to see them get what SOCOM has had for years. They deserve to be able to reach out like this. |
| Posted by: 49 Pan 2009-06-18 12:32 |
| #2 Then re-open Sunflower Ammunition Plant danggit. |
| Posted by: swksvolFF 2009-06-18 12:17 |
| #1 Glad to hear someone is listening to soldiers and Marines. In the end it all boils down to vanquishing the enemy by putting lead on a target. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2009-06-18 09:40 |