You have commented 339 times on Rantburg.

Your Name
Your e-mail (optional)
Website (optional)
My Original Nic        Pic-a-Nic        Sorry. Comments have been closed on this article.
Bold Italic Underline Strike Bullet Blockquote Small Big Link Squish Foto Photo
Home Front Economy
Democrats contemplate abolishing 401(k) tax breaks - Mandatory worker contributions considered
2008-10-26
Relax - give the Feds an additional 5% to spend, and your retirement is in good hands.
Why McCain hasn't turned this into a campaign ad yet I don't know ...
Powerful House Democrats are eyeing proposals to overhaul the nation's $3 trillion 401(k) system, including the elimination of most of the $80 billion in annual tax breaks that 401(k) investors receive.
It's not a break, it's a deferral. When you retire and cash your 401k you pay the taxes on the disbursement.
House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D-California, and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-HAMAS (Washington), chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee's Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute.
We have one of those already.
A plot plan by Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic-policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, contains elements that are being considered. She testified last week before Miller's Education and Labor Committee on her proposal.
That she's from the 'New School' is all you need to know.
At that hearing, the director of the Congressional Budget Office, Peter Orszag, testified that some $2 trillion in retirement savings has been lost over the past 15 months.
Bad as that is, what Ghilarducci proposes is far worse.
Under Ghilarducci's plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government ...
Guess where that 'subsidy' comes from ...
... but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation.
The bonds, of course, fund all the new spending for Congress.
The current system of providing tax breaks on 401(k) contributions and earnings would be eliminated.

"I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s," Ghilarducci said in an interview. "401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won't have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break."
Hers is one voice in 300 million. Do the rest of us get a say?
Under the current 401(k) system, investors are charged relatively high retail fees, Ghilarducci said.
NOT TRUE. You can invest your 401k at Vanguard (for example) or Fidelity in an indexed fund and pay fees that are very, very low.
"I want to spend our nation's dollar for retirement security better. Everybody would now be covered" if the plan were adopted, Ghilarducci said.
How in the world would that be true? You get your money compounded at 3% instead of 7%, the historical market return, and it gets invested into government bonds that the Congress uses to burn more money. How is that better for anyone other than Congress?
She has been in contact with Miller and McDermott about her plan, and they are interested in pursuing it, she said.
Well sure they are, they love spending other people's money.
"This [plan] certainly is intriguing," said Mike DeCesare, press secretary for McDermott. "That is part of the discussion," he said.

While Miller stopped short of calling for Ghilarducci's plan at the hearing last week, he was clearly against continuing tax breaks as they currently exist. The savings rate isn't going up for the investment of $80 billion," he said. "We have to start to think about ... whether or not we want to continue to invest that $80 billion for a policy that's not generating what we now say it should."
That's an idiot statement. The savings rate isn't the issue here. People lock up money for long periods of time into equities, and that helps our economy far more than having the money used to facilitate more government spending.
"From where I sit that's just crazy," said John Belluardo, president of Stewardship Financial Services Inc. in Tarrytown, New York. "A lot of people contribute to their 401(k)s because of the match of the employer," he said. Belluardo's firm does not manage assets directly.

Higher-income employers provide matching funds to employee plans so that they can qualify for tax benefits for their own defined-contribution plans, he said. "If the tax deferral goes away, the employers have no reason to do the matches, which primarily help people in the lower income brackets," Belluardo said.

"This is a battle between liberalism and conservatism," said Christopher Van Slyke, a partner in the La Jolla, California, advisory firm Trovena, which manages $400 million. "People are afraid because their accounts are seeing some volatility, so Democrats will seize on the opportunity to attack a program where investors control their own destiny," he said.
The Dhimmicrats have to be seen as 'doing something', even if it is ultimately destructive.
The Profit Sharing/401(k) Council of America in Chicago, which represents employers that sponsor defined-contribution plans, is "staunchly committed to keeping the employee benefit system in America voluntary," said Ed Ferrigno, vice president in the Washington office. "Some of the tenor [of the hearing last week] that the entire system should be based on the activities of the markets in the last 90 days is not the way to judge the system," he said.

No legislative proposals have been introduced and Congress is out of session until next year. However, most political observers believe that Democrats are poised to gain seats in both the House and the Senate, so comments made by the mostly Democratic members who attended the hearing could be a harbinger of things to come.
Yup, that's just what it is. Miller and McDermott will be back in January.
Posted by:Zhang Fei

#23  I'm also disappointed by McCain's Senate fratboy attitude. There is so much damaging material out there about Obama and every one of lifelong associates, who all could fit right in the Khmer Rouge politburo. Shown on TV ads, in their own words, it would absolutely murder the Dem's campaign. And not a peep from Maverick or his fratboys.
Posted by: ed   2008-10-26 19:57  

#22  I voted absentee today (military). My vote for McCain wasn't for McCain - I voted AGAINST dear leader Chairman Maobama.

McCain has run a horrible campaign - Ayers, Wright, Rezko, no birth cert - all fair game if played right. He's a joke but at least he went to bat for the country (way above & beyond) at some point in his life un-like that p.o.s. Maobama.

Start fucking w/people's 401Ks and there will be blood.

Posted by: Daffy Phash5086 aka Broadhead6   2008-10-26 19:43  

#21  "Why McCain hasn't turned this into a campaign ad yet I don't know,,"
Radio spots today during the NASCAR race talked about'spread the wealth' and liberals in general, but could have done more. Pitch person for one was Hank Jr., So that will likely make an impact on any of those 'bitter, gun toting' folks. his words. Nice, but nowhere near strong enough. I think he's toast.
Posted by: USN, Ret.   2008-10-26 19:26  

#20  or the government waging economic war on its citizens?
Posted by: Hellfish   2008-10-26 19:06  

#19  Ima thinkin that taxation with representation by seedy politicians should be put into the category of organized crime.
Posted by: JohnQC   2008-10-26 18:42  

#18  A lot of my 401 k has gone down the $hitter in the last year. I guess the rest will go down the $hitter with the donks. Is there no end to the sucking sound coming from Washington. Somehow this does not make me feel more patriotic as Biden has said we should.
Posted by: JohnQC   2008-10-26 18:37  

#17  But we've got money enough in the dem coffers to fly the Obama jet to visit granny Tutu in Hawaii.
Posted by: Besoeker   2008-10-26 18:16  

#16  > We are bankrupt, or under impossible debt.

Who's we tonto. It's the government's debt, and it will fall with it's default.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2008-10-26 17:54  

#15  Remember Social Security is basically bankrupt. The bailout we witnessed recently is the tip of the sh*tberg. We are bankrupt, or under impossible debt.

This little 401k number is the beginning of the effort to abolish independent finance, at least retirement. The dems want everyone to be dependent upon government. You can lead them around like sheep. Total control. Socialist paradise. Carbon credits for everyone. This whole dem thing is madness.
Posted by: Alaska Paul    2008-10-26 16:38  

#14  This is not bailout the middle-class this is screw it too the middle class. Thanks, but NO THANKS to government controlled retirement plans. It ridiculous to think that we want the illuminati government to take more money out of pocket so they can spend it on other people. Another example of spread the wealth.
Posted by: Ulusock Bluetooth9068   2008-10-26 16:22  

#13  That she's from the 'New School' is all you need to know.

Actually, it's the "Social Research" that's a dead give-away. That's code for "communist", or at least far-left Socialist. When the revolution happens, there's going to be a bloodbath, with such people the major contributors. Our colleges and universities are hostile territory, not part of the time-honored, constitutionally-governed United States of America.
Posted by: Old Patriot   2008-10-26 14:23  

#12  I they take mine there WILL be repercussions.
Posted by: Hellfish   2008-10-26 13:49  

#11  It won't take the socialists long to spend the $3 trillion and then come after IRAs.
Posted by: ed   2008-10-26 13:19  

#10  "Why McCain hasn't turned this into a campaign ad yet I don't know ..."
Nine days to go. They may be packaging this into a devastating final attack. At least I hope so.
Posted by: Darrell   2008-10-26 12:31  

#9  He does not deserve to win witnessing the terrible campaign he has run.

Must be cause we're told so by Obama's Sockpuppets the media, which still throttles the information flow. Oh, and the hundreds of millions of dollars from unknown sources that overflow the media pipes for the One.

It's not about 'Him', its about us. Those who have a need for 'Him' are no more different than those who have a need for the 'One'. Indifferent leadership, yep. That's still no excuse for those who proclaim they want to resist socialism to give up. We who wish to preserve that which is the embodiment of America are out to win and therefore we are the ones who have to do the work.

Posted by: Procopius2k   2008-10-26 11:56  

#8  If this happens I wonder how many people will "change their name to John Galt"
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2008-10-26 10:47  

#7  With an Obama victory 'believed' to be in sight by some, the democratic egalitarian agenda, leftests and socialists are now bolding out of the closet. What conservatives have known for decades is now been broadcast openly.
Posted by: Besoeker   2008-10-26 10:42  

#6  Not to worry. 401K's, minus any tax breaks, will continue to be allowed. However, any Roth conversion penalties already paid will be ignored, in the interest of fairness to others. Sorry.

For the forseeable future, citizens will continue to be permitted to hold cash and equities.

Refundable tax credits for credit card accounts are also being considered.
Posted by: KBK   2008-10-26 10:38  

#5  Fine.

The next day I will go to my boss and tell him I am a contractor, do not withhold SS taxes, and I will reconcile them in my tax return.

1) his ends your employer's SS contribution and reporting requirements.

2) This will end the fed's intake of about half of SS taxes if enough people do it.

Now take my 401K!
Posted by: badanov    2008-10-26 10:35  

#4  They've definately got their bloody eyes on the 401K and IRA prize. The unfortunate reality is, as they crawl towards their prey, folks will begin backing out. Payroll deposits from those still working will beging to be throttled back or suspended. Heaving everyone's victuals into the tribal pot will only destroy what little incentive remains.
Posted by: Besoeker   2008-10-26 10:27  

#3  With the collapse of Detroit, the UAW and the grossly underfunded public employee pension programs will push to throw their numbers into a revised Social Security system that is nothing less than a full nationalization of all private pension funds. Since the Donk clients have little or nothing to bring into the scheme they have to raid everyone else's holdings.
Posted by: Procopius2k   2008-10-26 10:17  

#2  Ditto Frank. "Spread the wealth YOUR 401K around."

All this talk from the left about "work projects and money for infrastructure, roads, bridges, etc." It's a cover story for urban, midnight basketball. The government has never been part of the solution, only a part of the problem.
Posted by: Besoeker   2008-10-26 10:02  

#1  Baghdad Jim McDermott and George Miller (D- Communist) should've waited til after the election to roll this pile of shit out. McCain and Palin could drive this one across the finish line if they play hardball , letting every 401K owner know about the Donk plans to steal their money
Posted by: Frank G   2008-10-26 09:35  

00:00