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| Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia |
| Soviet Reunion |
| 2008-08-12 |
| Russia's ill intentions clearly are on display in Georgia. In a fit of nationalist fury, it wants to teach Georgia and other former satellite countries that once made up the Soviet Bloc that its pro-Western rapprochement days are over What better way than to invade a former republic, humiliate its leaders and then taunt the West for failing to come to its aid? As if that wasn't enough, Russia immediately began threatening its other neighbors. A top Russian diplomat ominously warned Monday that Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Poland would "pay" for criticizing Russia's "imperialist" policy toward Georgia. Russia's claim to support independence from Georgia of tiny South Ossetia and even tinier Abkhazia is simply phony. Georgia, with its strategically important oil pipeline, has grown close to the U.S. -- even sending troops to Iraq. Putin, furious at growing U.S. and NATO ties with Eastern Europe, wanted to emasculate Georgia's military while deposing its pro-American President Mikheil Saakashvili. With his attack, it looks like he's succeeding. The symbolism of the invasion, coming at the start of the Beijing Olympics, is unmistakable. This is Russia's wake-up call to all of us. Communism may be dead, Putin is saying, but Russia isn't. While the rest of the world fantasizes about the "end of history," in the words of Francis Fukuyama, Putin and his neo-Soviet cronies in power are showing just how false and naive such a notion is. Putin's gambit is obvious. A politician who once served as spymaster for the USSR but who would have equally been at home in the ultranationalist era of the czars, he wants to reconstitute the lost pieces of Soviet empire that fell apart so ingloriously in 1991. The sad thing is, the West just may have given him the ammunition to do it -- both by ignoring the growing threat Russia poses as it re-arms using petrodollars, and by making several moves in recent months that Putin saw as signs of Western weakness. One of those moves came at NATO's summit in Bucharest in April of this year, when the U.S. and Europe basically promised Georgia it would someday be a member -- but didn't commit to a timetable. In retrospect, a big mistake. Had Georgia been brought into the NATO fold -- and thus, been given a NATO security guarantee -- it's doubtful that Russia would do anything so rash as invade. As it is, Putin gets a twofer: He gets to crush a sovereign nation on his border that also has recently been a strong ally of the U.S. Another error was the West's ill-advised recognition in February of Kosovo's split from Serbia, a strong ally of Russia. At the time, Russia warned that the EU's and U.S.' decision to support Kosovo's split would have "consequences." Now, we see what he meant. As for the U.N. Security Council, it has shown itself to be all but worthless during this crisis. At press time, Russia has killed an estimated 1,400 people --including many civilians, say media accounts -- and is demanding that Georgia's army lay down its arms. Will Russia get away with it? The U.S. is unlikely to attack a nation with nuclear arms over an issue like South Ossetia. But we don't have to sit idly by while a nation is raped. We still have extensive diplomatic clout and trade ties to pressure Russia with. We must, at the very least, be the loudest voice in the room denouncing Russia and demanding it pull back. |
| Posted by:Fred |
| #10 Enough, McZ. Give it a rest or be given an enforced rest. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-08-12 21:07 |
| #9 lotp: "Baiting"? Personality grudges are out of place hers. We are anonymous and exactly how many different people in this big world, actually see our comments? 20 to 50; maybe more at times? Be honest to yourself; a Philadelphia lawyer couldn't find baiting - or insults - on my part. |
| Posted by: McZoid 2008-08-12 21:05 |
| #8 #6 - After the 2nd day or so of deliberate baiting by one party and profane personal name calling by the other in response, it was time to give it a rest for a while. Exactly where to draw the line on that sort of thing is a judgement call, but several moderators agreed we'd pretty much reached it. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-08-12 19:20 |
| #7 He's just giving helpful comment on a bad vibe in the tribe. |
| Posted by: bigjim-ky 2008-08-12 19:12 |
| #6 lotp I would like clarification about just what OS is saying that is pushing the line. He is certainly being insulting, but Ive never noticed that to be considered over the line here, at least when directed against our occasional left wing visitor. I certainly realize its the proprietors right to support whatever limits he wishes, and there is NO obligation to consistency. Im just curious what y'all have in mind though. |
| Posted by: superstitiousGalitizianer 2008-08-12 14:32 |
| #5 M: Turkey wasn't one of them. Turkey currently has troops in Afghanistan. They never signed on for Iraq. Germany, France, Belgium, et al, also stayed out. The Georgians may have made common cause with the Chechens against the Russians. But then again, we made common cause with the Soviets against the Nazis - the same Soviets who - apart from killing tens of millions of their own people - also signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact (which also divided up Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union), freeing up the German military to attack the West. As Churchill once said, if Hitler invaded Hell, he would promptly sign a pact with the Devil. The Georgians have had the Soviets trying to annex a big chunk of their land since independence. I can understand why they allied with the Chechens, who are fighting for independence, rather than just trying to inflict mayhem. The hospital and school hostage incidents were atrocious - but that was just Samir Basayev. The basic justice of the Chechen cause stands. Stalin tried to kill them off by shipping them to some Central Asian wasteland. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2008-08-12 14:24 |
| #4 Both McZoid and Old Spook are pushing the moderators' patience. Knock it off -- BOTH OF YOU. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-08-12 10:53 |
| #3 That's getting pretty unfriendly there OS. In fact its wearing ME out and Im only watching. |
| Posted by: Muggsy Hupuling5368 2008-08-12 10:46 |
| #2 McZoid, what don't you understand about this: A top Russian diplomat ominously warned Monday that Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Poland would "pay" for criticizing Russia's "imperialist" policy toward Georgia Hmm pinhead, care to defend those actions? This had nothign to do with the Art5 NATO invocation. Russia is CLEARLY over the line,and CLEARLY using force against civilians indiscriminately, which is a war crime. Objectivity is one quality you are in complete lack of. Your rabid anti-muslim obsession has caused you to pretzyl yourself repreatedly here. Slef-contradicting and generally being an enemyof liberty is wher you find yourself now, thanks to your blind and nearly mindless hatred. You are twisting yourself insance in order to support your delusions about Georgia and thus side with a thug like Putin in his demolition of a friendly allied country - one that had troops helping us in Iraq against Al Qaeda, need I remind you. As for your usual bucket of lies, you need to post PROOF that Georgian leaders backed the Besalan Chechens. Repeatedly spewing lies doesn't make them so, you poor bigoted moron. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2008-08-12 03:47 |
| #1 Uh, uh, uh. After 9-11, Bush invoked Article 5 (collective security) provision of the North Atlantic Treaty. Only a handful of states made their commitment. Turkey wasn't one of them. In fact, the Islamofascist tyranny of that country sandbagged the war of Iraq liberation by halting 20% of US arms and troops, in Turkish ports. Georgians need close allies against the Turks. Their stupid leaders chose to aid Chechen beheaders. Russians won't put the boot to same; Georgian people will. Impartiality = assuming a position in the absense of favor to opposing parties. Objectivity = deciding in a void of subjectivity, and reaching a determination based on due consideration of all relevant factors. |
| Posted by: McZoid 2008-08-12 02:20 |